WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:15.599 And yet I asked you, it's not an alien force already. 2 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:25.719 Among my guest today is author, musician, artist, researcher and 3 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.480 host of Strange Familiars Timothy Renner. Welcome and thanks for 4 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:30.879 coming on. 5 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:32.640 Well, thanks so much for having me. 6 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:39.280 Yeah, before you came on, actually my power shut off 7 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.359 just a real quick and it cut back on and 8 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:48.920 the light started stroby like dark green. 9 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:50.439 Oh, that's weird. 10 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.399 That's I know it's and it's it's a dark green 11 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.880 color that I don't have available because some of these 12 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.600 lights have a remote and I've never been able to 13 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:02.960 accomplished that shade of green. So I don't know what's 14 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.920 going on. I don't know what's in store for us 15 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:05.439 this evening. 16 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:07.560 Well let's find out. 17 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.840 And I should mention too, before I had a podcast, 18 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.480 before I knew I was going to have a podcast, 19 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:21.840 I came across your show and the coolest part of 20 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.680 doing this is getting to talk to people who kind 21 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:29.640 of had a hand in influence in me. So and 22 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:34.120 your podcast one is one of the few shows that 23 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:37.879 had that kind of had me aspiring to start my own. 24 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.560 So that's thank you, that's that's a huge compliment. That's 25 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:44.879 the way I started too. I had there's a few 26 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.239 podcasts I listened to. Sasquatch Chronicles was one of them, 27 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.519 Where Did the Road Go was another? And without those guys, 28 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.959 you know, I wouldn't have done it either. So I 29 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.400 love that. I think that was a huge compliment. Thank you. 30 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:03.920 Yeah, no problem. And you know, yeah, it sounds like 31 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.040 we're in the same boat on a different timeline, because 32 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.479 it is. It's just a few handful of these shows, 33 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:15.280 these gems out there, because there's a thousands podcasts, right, 34 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:17.960 but there's there was only a few of them that 35 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:22.080 really called me to I guess to try this. 36 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:28.000 Yeah what, Yeah, I love podcasting in general because I 37 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:32.599 think it's in a way, in its ideal form. I 38 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:37.960 think it's it's a wonderfully equal format. 39 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:38.520 You know. 40 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:42.639 Now, there are some celebrities that come in and they 41 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.120 get a leg up because they're already popular. But for 42 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.159 you know, the rest of us, you know, we're all 43 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:50.520 we all kind of start at the same place. And uh, 44 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:54.400 it's a great community. It's just a great community. Everyone 45 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:57.680 I've met it has been wonderful. Like I haven't met 46 00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:59.879 like one podcast as a look, like I said, you're 47 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.479 everybody I've met has been really nice and supportive, and 48 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.039 it's just such a great community and I really enjoy it. 49 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:08.560 I just I love everything about it. 50 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.560 Yeah. Same here. I think from what I've gathered so 51 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.919 far with people I've interacted within this community, they're all 52 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.960 very very interesting and very intelligent. 53 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.039 Yeah, and they don't have that. So I came from 54 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.120 the music world and there was a not everybody, but 55 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.120 you could definitely run into a lot of people with 56 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:33.360 a real competitive streak. 57 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:33.479 You know. 58 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:35.840 It seemed like they were really trying to get like 59 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.560 everybody's after the Golden Ring or whatever, and they weren't 60 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:43.319 too worried about what you were doing if and might 61 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.199 actively be kind of trying to push you out of 62 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:48.280 the way. It's not that way in podcasting. It's not 63 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:50.840 when like we're not fighting for the audience because people 64 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.719 can listen to as many podcasts as they want. And 65 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.719 it's just like I said, it's that supportive community that 66 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.280 that I just find wonderful. Like, you know, we've guessed 67 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.400 on each other's podcast. We help each other out, you know, 68 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.439 we give each other clues like, hey, what equipment are 69 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:08.240 you using? What does this? You know, people, it's just great, 70 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.159 like it's just really supportive and wonderful. 71 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.639 Yeah. Absolutely. I was in the music world for a 72 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.000 while as well. I'm in Nashville actually that's where I 73 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.480 live now, and I came out here. I was summoning 74 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:24.240 out here by other musicians, So I know about that, 75 00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:31.519 the cutthroat antics in which you speak. 76 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:32.120 What It can get pretty bad there, I imagine. 77 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.639 Yeah, well you know, Pete, Yeah, yeah, it's it can be. 78 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:39.920 It can be a lot of the people who who 79 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.560 make it out here have had time to sort of 80 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:48.959 mellow out on their journey, I think. But at the 81 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:53.000 end of the day, there's still that that tendency to 82 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.600 sort of get ahead of your neighbor if you will. 83 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.680 Yeah. Yeah, it's just I don't know if it's baked 84 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.959 into the music world or I don't know what it 85 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.600 is about it, but yeah, it does exist there and 86 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.399 not everybody, certainly not everybody, but you do, you do 87 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:08.519 run into it a bit. 88 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:10.240 Yeah. 89 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:12.920 What attracted this is what I really want to know. 90 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:19.920 What attracted you to the subject of the strange phenomena? 91 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.079 Well, I always liked it, like even as a little 92 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:29.000 little kid, I remember hearing about ghost stories, like and 93 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:32.079 I grew up in a in rural Maryland on a farm, 94 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:34.839 and every now and then I'd hear about a ghost 95 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:37.079 story this place was haunted or a ghost was seen here, 96 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.240 and I always wanted to go there. I would always 97 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.199 bug my parents, like I want to go there. And 98 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.360 I didn't know why, you know, I didn't even think 99 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:45.360 as a kid, I thought i'd see a ghost. I 100 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:48.639 just wanted to go to those places where this stuff happened. 101 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:52.519 Later on I would have learned this is this is folklore, 102 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.480 and I love folklore. But I was interested from that 103 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.839 from that young age. And then once shows like In 104 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:03.000 Search of came on and things like that, it just 105 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.879 fired my imagination and and I really fell in love 106 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.199 with the idea of Bigfoot. And it had a few 107 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.079 experiences of my own as a kid, which I didn't 108 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.720 really connect until I was like much later looking back, 109 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.639 not Bigfoot experiences. I saw Ufo and and had some 110 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:25.720 other strange things happened around around that stuff. But funny enough, 111 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:27.720 even though I saw Ufo, I didn't I was still 112 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:31.399 a Bigfoot kid. I just all I wanted was I'd 113 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:33.600 read big Foot books and watch big Foot shows on 114 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:37.079 TV all that stuff. But then you know, got us 115 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.399 to a certain age, and I found girls in punk rock, 116 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:42.439 and I forgot about all that stuff and went off 117 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:47.680 and had adventures and music and et cetera. And then, 118 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:52.399 you know, as an adult, started settling down again and 119 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:55.800 started looking the stuff up and found that, you know, 120 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.279 it didn't stop when I stopped, It kept going and 121 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.680 there was a wonderful world full of this stuff. And 122 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.199 I started exploring it again, and eventually, you know, I 123 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:09.759 wrote my first book, which is about a local area 124 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:14.040 here in York County, Pennsylvania called Toad Road, and I 125 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.879 really dug in and that's when I found my love 126 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:20.879 for research. I just really, like, like, you know, started 127 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:24.480 going to the Historical Society, started really spent a lot 128 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.680 of time with newspaper archives and things like that, and 129 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.319 just fell in love with like just digging up this information. 130 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.519 And then from there I started going on podcasts and 131 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.279 then I was like, hey, I want to do a podcast. 132 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.360 So it all kind of but it roots back to 133 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:40.959 my earliest memories. I mean, I just always loved this stuff. 134 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:45.759 Yeah, you said, Maryland, I guess that's where it all started. 135 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:49.600 And did you migrate the PA? And I was going 136 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:53.000 to ask about PA because I love that state. You know, 137 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:57.120 I've been going up my whole life to Pennsylvania. It's 138 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:02.160 like a second home for me, and I was just curious, 139 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:06.360 you know, how much of that state has a place 140 00:08:06.439 --> 00:08:10.240 in this story for you. Did you find a lot 141 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.120 of weird when you got to p a. 142 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.480 Yeah, yeah, I used to. When I started the podcast, 143 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:17.279 I used to say, now, I could do the same 144 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:19.360 thing anywhere. You know, it's just a matter of look 145 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.720 in and you'll find the weird stuff. And I do that. 146 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.920 That is true, probably to an extent. But also Pennsylvania 147 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.079 has a whole lot of it. I'm lucky to live 148 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.680 where I do and be interested in this stuff because 149 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.279 there's just so much here. There's there is a lot 150 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:36.840 in Pennsylvania. I don't know why, but there's there's a 151 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.480 lot of it here. So it's a good place to 152 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:42.519 live if you're interested in this stuff. There's you know, 153 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.600 just you know, forty five minutes away is Gettysburg, which 154 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:50.519 is a massive, you knows, ghost hunting place, and you know, 155 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.679 obviously the history there I love too, but I mean 156 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.799 it's infused with this this ghost hunting culture there. But 157 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:59.279 you know, we have Michell Forrest. It's just a little 158 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.039 bit beyond that, which is probably your top one or 159 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:06.840 two places in Pennsylvania for bigfoot settings, and then all 160 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.919 kinds of other stuff locally. It's just it's a wonderful place, 161 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:12.759 like I don't have to go too far to get 162 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.000 to some really interesting stuff. 163 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.679 Yeah. And I feel that way as well about being 164 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:22.919 in Tennessee. And I suppose I came from North Carolina 165 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.200 to Nashville, and I suppose I could probably say the 166 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.440 same about North Carolina, but I do. I have all 167 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:34.639 these great memories of driving up to Pennsylvania from North Carolina, 168 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:37.279 just my whole life because my mom's side of the 169 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:42.279 family is from Butler. Okay, the Pittsburgh area, Yeah, familiar 170 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.440 and yeah, and so you know, part of that trip 171 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:51.679 was going through West Virginia, which is very much a 172 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.440 high strange area of the country. I'd say that West 173 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:58.519 Virginia is dense four tea in land. 174 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:02.200 Yeah. I I love West Virginia too. I always say 175 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:06.759 West Virginia just it's like Pennsylvania on steroids. You know, 176 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.840 you get the rolling hills roll a bit more, the 177 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.639 mountains are a bit higher, the greens a big greener. 178 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:12.759 Yeah. 179 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:14.200 I love West Virginia. I spent a lot of time 180 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.519 there learning culhammer banjo, and I fell in love with 181 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:21.039 the state and the people. Just just wonderful place. If 182 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.600 I didn't live in Pennsylvania, I don't know, be a 183 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.480 close call between Western Massachusetts and West Virginia if I 184 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:30.399 if I didn't live in Pennsylvania, I'd choose one of 185 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:31.399 those two places. 186 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:31.919 Yeah. 187 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:36.360 I've often thought about that too. I often think, what 188 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:39.200 if I end up in West Virginia, And then I think, well, 189 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.840 it wouldn't be that bad. It's it's kind of like 190 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.879 an isolation this dream. Yeah. 191 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:47.639 Oh yeah, yeah, that part of me that wants to 192 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.279 live alone in a cabin looks at West Virginia. Oh, yes, 193 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.960 that's right. It's pretty nice. 194 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.799 Yes, and you know, just going up through you know, 195 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:59.879 going up through flat woods going sometimes we would, I 196 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.080 would go up through Point Pleasant, right, and and then 197 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.840 but of course Pennsylvania, you know, I mean, it's right 198 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:11.480 on the hills of West Virginia. For weird because in Butler, 199 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.879 where my grandpa's from, they had that Butler Gargoyle. 200 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:19.240 Oh yes, yeah, And I. 201 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:25.039 Always thought that that was such a strange, strange, cryptid 202 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.279 and I often wondered if that speaking of point pleasant 203 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.559 if that was not in some kind of a relation 204 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:32.279 to Mothman. 205 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:36.200 Yeah, I mean I wonder that too with a lot 206 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.840 of these these sightings of these these wing things, because 207 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:43.960 the descriptions of Mauthman, if you read like Mothman prophecies, 208 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.840 a lot of the witnesses were kind of describing it 209 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:48.639 was something with wings. But other than that, a lot 210 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:50.799 of the descriptions were a little bit different. And you're like, 211 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:53.480 were they seeing the same thing? You know? And that's 212 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.080 so you wonder when you see these gargoyles and these 213 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.840 some people call them these batsquatches, they call them. Yeah, 214 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.519 it was like, are these are they related? Are they 215 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.600 the same thing? I don't know, I don't know, but yeah, 216 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.919 I thought about that too, as far as the gargoyle thing. 217 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.960 Yeah, and I think too with some of the pa gargoyles. 218 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:17.480 One of the characteristics that I remember seeing was that 219 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:24.840 it dark figure in the road. Witness sees it jump 220 00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:30.320 and fly and spread its wings, but not flap its wings, right, 221 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.519 And that was I think that that was a mothman characteristic. 222 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:40.000 I believe you're correct. Yeah, yep, yeah, there's a Now 223 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.440 this witness called it a mothman. That happened in New 224 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:44.000 York County. 225 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:44.200 Here. 226 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.480 I'm very close to that area Toad Road I was 227 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.120 talking about, in fact, less than a quarter of a 228 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:55.480 mile away from it, basically right there, but very similar thing. 229 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.559 They said. It was this dark figure. It stood up. 230 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.279 They pulled over the car to look at some deer 231 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:04.039 and this thing stands up behind their car. They see 232 00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:07.240 this thing stand up and then the wings go out. 233 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:09.960 It screamed, I think, they said, But it didn't flap 234 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.080 its wings. It just just shot up. 235 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:12.360 You know. 236 00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.240 Yeah, That's that's why I like this subject so much. 237 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:24.399 It's those just those those I mean impossibilities, but yet 238 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.480 lot oftentimes on the other side of that siding, you 239 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.320 have a witness that's totally genuine. 240 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:36.799 Yeah, oh yeah, that's I mean. When I started uncovering these, 241 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:39.440 and I wasn't the first one to do this. When 242 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.919 I say I'm covering, I mean, like for myself, I 243 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:45.000 started uncovering these these wild man reports they called them 244 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.720 from the eighteen hundreds of you know what I believe 245 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.799 are Bigfoot. It certainly sounds like what they're describing. The 246 00:13:51.879 --> 00:13:56.039 thing that really hit home for me is these people 247 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.720 are describing behaviors right so not only they describe something 248 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.919 big and hearing, but they're describing the behaviors that people 249 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:08.679 today are describing. And these are very obscure articles I'm 250 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:10.720 finding that take me a long time to dig out 251 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.600 of these old newspapers. These witnesses today that are like, 252 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.080 let's say I hear them on Sasquatch chronicles for instance. 253 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.799 They're not reading these old articles and going, oh, yeah, 254 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:20.679 I'm going to talk about this this and the you know, 255 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.639 they're talking about what they saw, and so are these 256 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.360 people in these old newspaper articles, and they're describing some 257 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.360 very specific things, things like recognizing the gun, like they 258 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.600 seem to recognize a gun when they put out things 259 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:40.480 like there they're problems or or anger or I don't 260 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.000 know how to put it there. They don't like dogs, right, 261 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:47.399 so they're they're aggressive towards dogs, climbing on roofs. I mean, 262 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:51.240 that's a very very weird thing. That's a very strange thing. 263 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:54.519 And when I hear that, I'm like, okay, okay. And 264 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.600 people today are reporting it too, you know, slapping the 265 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.039 side of their house, tapping on windows, all these things, 266 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.440 and it's like, well, these it's the same behavior. These 267 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:04.919 people are describing over the course of hundreds of years, 268 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:06.919 you know, And I'm like I said, I'm sure these 269 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:10.440 modern witnesses weren't finding these articles and then and then saying, oh, 270 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:11.960 I'm going to make up a story based on these 271 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.919 old articles. It's just, you know, it's not possible. 272 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.279 Yeah, you know. And I was telling you before a 273 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.200 little bit, I haven't done a proper Bigfoot show yet, 274 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:25.679 and I've been wanting to do that, and I haven't 275 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.080 been able to decide if I wanted to start with 276 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:32.639 wild man or with Bigfoot. But at the same time, 277 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.399 at the end of the day, sometimes that's the same thing. 278 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:38.879 But I'm glad you brought up the eighteen hundreds because 279 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.200 I think that's a really cool place to start with. 280 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.759 This subject is going back to some of those older 281 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:49.080 articles when they were called often they were referred to 282 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:51.159 as wild men. 283 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.080 Well yeah, well the wild man really starts in the 284 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.399 Middle Ages, okay, And they would have caught it back 285 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.679 then on up to the eighteen hundreds, about the time 286 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:08.919 the West becomes aware of the Mountain Gorilla in Africa. 287 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.279 I won't say discovered, because the African people knew it 288 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.360 was there already, But when the West becomes aware of 289 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.240 the mountain gorilla. Then you start seeing the very late 290 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.519 eighteen hundreds, like eighteen ninety, really more around nineteen hundred 291 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:24.799 nineteen ten, you start seeing them called gorillas. At that 292 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.120 point they'll say, you know, there was a gorilla, A 293 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:31.480 big gorilla was seen, you know, outside of town. So 294 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.559 it's interesting how they changed. Once the monster movies come 295 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.440 in in the twenties and thirties, well then they turn 296 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.279 into monsters for a while. The newspaper reports are like, 297 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:41.879 you know, monster scene, they pay big hairy monster scene, 298 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.080 and then you know bigfoot sasquatch. All that takes over 299 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.159 starting in the fifty sixty seventies. So it's interesting the 300 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.679 way the sort of naming goes. And when I mentioned 301 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:53.960 gorilla is by the way, a lot of people say, well, 302 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:59.639 they were escape circus animals. Gorillas were extremely expensive back then, 303 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:04.079 about the equivalent of two million dollars today. Not everyone 304 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.720 had it. Not every circus had one. Very few zoos 305 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.839 had them. We knew exactly how many girulas they had 306 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.440 in the United States at any one time back then. 307 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.920 I believe the New York Zoo had one, and Barnum 308 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.480 had one. That might be it. There might have been 309 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.119 one other one out there that I'm forgetting about. They're 310 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.920 very difficult to take it. They didn't know how to 311 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:24.200 take care of them back then, so they died pretty easily. 312 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:27.319 So the idea that people say, oh, it's just an 313 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.799 escape circus animal, when the people are talking about seeing gorillas, 314 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.880 you know, now we knew where the gorillas were and 315 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.480 they were accounted for, so it just a gorilla does 316 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:40.759 not explain, you know, what these people are seeing. They 317 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.920 were just using that word. You know, first they saw 318 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.799 big everything in the woods, they called it a gorilla. 319 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.119 Yeah. I think that that sometimes tends to be this 320 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:55.319 urban legend that has a tendency to like perpetuate itself, 321 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:58.359 where it's like, you know, just about every small town 322 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:03.240 has that same story and that same excuse that something 323 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.279 weird happened, and oh, it was just the train that crashed, 324 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.279 the circus train. Oh yeah, it's in every time. 325 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.160 I happen to be lucky in that department. My wife 326 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.839 is a circus historian, and she knows, like, if someone 327 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.759 claims there was a circus train crash, she can figure 328 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.319 out if where the circus train crashes were. They always 329 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:25.200 made the newspaper. It was a big news. There were 330 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.160 a few nowhere near as many as people claim. But 331 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.279 I can always check with her and just say, hey, 332 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.559 was there a circus train crash in this state around 333 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:34.240 this time, and she can look it up for me, 334 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.000 and by far the answer has been no. You know, 335 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.400 I can't think of one time where it's corresponded with 336 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:40.319 one of these stories. 337 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.640 Yeah. One of the first episodes I heard of yours 338 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:50.799 was the I think it was called the Witch Digger. 339 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.839 Oh yeah, and the. 340 00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:56.839 I bring it up because I think it's a good 341 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.359 example of this dichotomy between wild man and Bigfoot and 342 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:06.039 how blurry that can be, because this this episode deals 343 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:10.160 with a creature that kind of rides the line between 344 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.079 Bigfoot and wild man. If I'm remembering that correctly. 345 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:19.440 Yeah, yeah, that story in particular has become in many 346 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:23.279 ways the defining story of strange familiars. I'm not sure 347 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.759 how recently, I don't know. So we did it episode four, 348 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:29.519 so that early in the show was the first time 349 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:31.839 we did the Witch Diggers. We came back to it 350 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.680 last year because some witnesses who lived who currently live 351 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.000 on that same property contacted me and said they were 352 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.960 still having activity today. They invited us out. We went 353 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.920 to that property, we stayed there. We had some incredible 354 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:54.200 things happened to us, not all of which I'm ready 355 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.960 to talk about, but some Bigfoot related things, some things 356 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:01.799 related to anomal flights in the sky, and some other 357 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.480 very very strange things that were very Mothman prophecies esque. 358 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.400 And I don't mean we saw Mothman. I just mean 359 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.920 the other kind of high strangeness that surrounded that phenomena. 360 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.640 We are we're currently working on. This will be a 361 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.240 Strange familiar's life. We're going to tell the entire Witch 362 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:24.519 Digger story live, the history of it, modern witness interviews, 363 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.720 and then our experiences when we went to Indiana and 364 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:33.559 did that. So that story has become incredibly important to 365 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:38.240 Strange familiars and to me personally. That journey to Indiana 366 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.319 changed my life in a major way. 367 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.559 I didn't know this, by the way, this is news 368 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.880 to me. I just remember that episode because I went 369 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:49.480 back and started from when I found your podcast. I 370 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:53.599 went back and started, I guess from the beginning, and 371 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.599 I just remember that. Man. That's so feel free to 372 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.000 talk about that as much as you feel like you 373 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:00.759 hand I guess. 374 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.839 Yeah, So the Witch Diggers. It's an article I found. 375 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.759 I'm doing these newspaper searches for these wild men, and 376 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:09.839 I came up with this article, and I didn't know 377 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.400 what I was going to do with it, because before 378 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.640 I had a podcast. I found it and I knew 379 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:17.680 I was going to collect the Pennsylvania stories, but I 380 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.480 wasn't sure I was going to keep going. I think 381 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:23.359 now I'm eventually I'm gonna do the whole country, hopefully, 382 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.680 hopefully I live that long. But I put it aside 383 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:29.480 and I put in a folder on my desktop, like 384 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.079 this is a really interesting story. And then when I 385 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:34.559 started the podcast, the first three episodes were based on 386 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:39.519 my first book. So really the the first original content 387 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.400 I made for the podcast was The Witch Diggers, and 388 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.119 it was based on that story. So it's this, this 389 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:51.720 family moves from Ohio to Indiana. They buy property in 390 00:21:51.799 --> 00:22:01.720 this area and there they're a Swiss family. They they're 391 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.119 having a hard time there for various reasons, farming and 392 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:08.799 so forth. But they're they're living, they're doing okay. But 393 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.279 one day one of the family members shows up at 394 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.279 a neighbor and starts talking about witches. And it was 395 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.839 so is a one brother named Nick, one brother named Sammy, 396 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.359 and their sister named Susan. And Nick was kind of 397 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.640 the caretaker of these two. The rest that they had 398 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.599 a very large family, but their parents died, two brothers 399 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.680 were killed in the Civil War, and a couple other 400 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:35.319 their other brothers died I believe in Europe before they 401 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:40.480 ever got to America. So it's just Nick, Susan, and 402 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.880 Sammy left. And Nick's actually younger than those two, but 403 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.720 he comes back from the Civil Wars and starts taking 404 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.160 care of them. So they moved to this farm in Indiana, 405 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:53.920 and like I said, they start talking about witches, and 406 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.480 the neighbors are like, what's going on there? And Sammy, 407 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.039 the younger brother, he starts talking about he's afraid to 408 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:05.480 be in the house alone, and he just wanders the 409 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.279 neighborhood all day long. They said he was a little 410 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.079 he was probably, you know, mentally handcapped, handicapped in some way. 411 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.240 They in the in the census records, they list him 412 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.279 is not a nice word, but this is this is 413 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:21.480 how we find this family. In the census records, they 414 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.759 list him as an idiot, So we know it's it's 415 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.640 that family. We can find them pretty easily by their names. 416 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.799 And then and then when Samy is listed as as such, 417 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.559 but he starts talking about what he called monkeys with 418 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:42.400 human heads that climb through the window and scared him 419 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:43.920 so bad that he did he didn't even want to 420 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.559 talk about it. And they're also talking about seeing witches 421 00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:51.480 and so forth. The family seems to go crazy together, 422 00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:56.319 all three of them, and they start digging this ditch h 423 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.000 and at anytime they come upon something like a frog 424 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.920 or a worm, anything alive, they kill it and they 425 00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:03.920 say it was a witch, and they drive a stick 426 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.079 in the ground. So they're obviously like they're kind of 427 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.119 losing it. And the question is did this paranormal activity 428 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.319 kind of drive them to that that make them, you know, 429 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:14.680 put them in this paranoid state, or is there something 430 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:18.240 else going on. Eventually the people come and they take 431 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:22.079 them to the Olms house. But then later people coming 432 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.200 through this area start seeing this Harry wildman and he's 433 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:29.839 carrying an axe, so it's this weird thing and they think, oh, 434 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.720 it must be Nick because he escapes from the asylum 435 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.519 at some point, and they said it must be him, 436 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:37.680 it must be Nick. He come back to the neighborhood. 437 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.480 But what they're describing doesn't look it's not a man. 438 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.759 They're describing a big hairy thing that runs on all fours, 439 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.920 but it's carrying an axe. It's a really really interesting thing. 440 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:49.400 I love the article and I always wanted to do 441 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:52.319 something more with it. And last summer I was talking 442 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.039 to my friend John, who would he would end up 443 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.160 going to Indiana with me. I said, John, I want 444 00:24:58.160 --> 00:24:59.440 to do something more with the witch Diggers, and I 445 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.599 don't know what it is. I said, maybe we should 446 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:03.400 just go to Indiana and drive around and see if 447 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.519 we could find this place. I didn't. I didn't know, like, 448 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.319 you know, the chances of that would be slim, but 449 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.640 I thought maybe we could try. And about a week later, 450 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.240 I got an email with the subject witch Diggers and 451 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.680 I opened it up and it said I live on 452 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.519 that property and I'm still having activity today. Please contact me. 453 00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:25.480 I was like, this is a week after I said 454 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:27.160 this to John. So I sent an email right away, 455 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:31.319 and I don't hear anything back for two weeks, Like 456 00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:33.720 what is happening? Like why won't this person contact me? 457 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.160 They seemed like so eager to talk to me, So 458 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.799 I went in in our discord for Strength Familiars. We 459 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:43.400 have this intention and prayer channel and usually people use 460 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.200 it for like, hey, my mom's sick, can you pray 461 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.160 for you know, you know, my my neighbor's not feeling well, 462 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.119 things like that. And I went in there and I said, look, 463 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:54.400 this is this isn't important as far it like nobody's 464 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:58.440 health was involved or anything like that. But here's what 465 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.160 I'd like. I said, I'd like these people to contact me. 466 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.960 Number one. Number two, I'd like them to tell me 467 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.200 their story. Number three, I'd like them to come on 468 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.400 Strange Familiars and tell their story. And number four, the 469 00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:11.559 big ass is, I'd like them to give me access 470 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:16.400 to this property. Two weeks, within two weeks of me 471 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.799 putting that on discord, I get another email from a 472 00:26:18.839 --> 00:26:21.920 different email address that says which diggers as a subject 473 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:24.559 line says, hey, we live across from this property and 474 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.640 we're still having activity today. So this is yet another person. 475 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:31.160 They gave their phone number. I called them right away. 476 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.640 They told me the stories they came on Strange Familiars. 477 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.960 I said, hey, can we come out there? They said, 478 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.599 You're welcome to come out here. I got everything I 479 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.079 asked for. Like to the letter everything I asked for, 480 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:47.480 which blew me away. Right, So we made plans to 481 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.839 go out there. I think this was in the fall. 482 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:51.039 We made plans to go out in the spring. We 483 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:58.279 went out in March. And now they were these witnesses. 484 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.240 There's about five families live back in this hollow. This 485 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:07.799 is in southern Indiana, near this property, all of them. 486 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.359 I think maybe we know about three of these families. 487 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.079 Talk to us, and we're going back and we'll be 488 00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.799 able to talk to another one. I think in the 489 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.440 fall they all had activity. They all had stories, multiple stories, 490 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.640 and the one that really blew me away and the 491 00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:30.119 reason the witness contacted me. They didn't know anything about 492 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:34.279 this witch Diggers article. They had a cemetery on their property, 493 00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:36.839 and they sent away to the local historical society for 494 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:41.839 information on that, and they sent them information on that cemetery. 495 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:43.599 But they said, oh, this is in your area too, 496 00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.319 and they sent them part of the witch diggers article, 497 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.640 not the full article, just like a little part of it. 498 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:52.680 They type in witch diggers on the internet. They get 499 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.960 interested in upcomes strange familiars. They listened to strange familiars 500 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.680 and the witness said she listened to it, and then 501 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:02.559 when her husband got home from work, she made him 502 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.920 sit down and said, now, listen to this podcast the 503 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.319 whole thing. Listen to it. And this is why they 504 00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:10.759 had had bigfoot activity. But they did not know anything 505 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.160 about this Witch Digger's article. They were seeing she had 506 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.759 seen bigfoot. They had some workers come to work on 507 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.960 some power lines nearby. They had seen bigfoot. They were 508 00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.440 terrified by what they saw, and their neighbors were experiencing 509 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.839 weird stuff. But the thing that got them they had 510 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.000 an eighty year old neighbor and they originally thought he 511 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:31.599 was seen now when he said this. He called his 512 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.000 son one night and he said, come out here. I 513 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.720 need your help. It's like late at night. I think 514 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.039 he left a message. He didn't explain what he needed. 515 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.319 And they go out to his house, which again is 516 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.000 right across from this property. All the lights are on, 517 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:51.319 all the doors are open. He's nowhere to be found, 518 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:53.440 and they're looking around for him, and they finally they 519 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.119 call his cell phone. They could hear it ringing in 520 00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:58.000 the distance. They go and they find him under a 521 00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:01.920 piece of farm equipment hiding and they asked him what happened, 522 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:08.599 and he said monkeys with human heads climbed through my windows. 523 00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:12.559 Same thing that the kid without any knowledge of this 524 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.160 article from the eighteen hundreds, same thing, and that's what 525 00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.799 gave them chills and made them contact us. And when 526 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.599 she told me that, obviously I got chills too and 527 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.519 I have to go. I have to go. So we 528 00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:32.319 went out there. Like I said, we've had We did 529 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.200 not see any creatures, but we had bigfoot like activity. 530 00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:38.720 I don't want to say too much because, like I said, 531 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:40.799 this is going to be we're going to do strange 532 00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:43.039 familiars live. We're going to tour the country and we're 533 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:47.039 going to tell the full story of all this. But 534 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.400 we saw anomalos lights in the sky more than once. 535 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.920 And next time we go out, I believe. So the 536 00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:00.160 house where that the elderly man lived, he he has 537 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:04.400 since passed away, and that house sits empty. The family 538 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.720 doesn't doesn't want to do anything with it. They said, 539 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.759 next time we go out, we can stay in that house. 540 00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:13.119 So I will. I will get to stay in the 541 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.200 house where the quote unquote monkeys with human heads climbed 542 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.720 through the window. So I'm quite excited about that. Since 543 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.039 we've been there, there's been three toed tracks found in 544 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.839 along a pond, and the main witnesses that we talked 545 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:33.960 to they rent a cabin to other people, and these 546 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.559 people at this cabins had not talked to them about bigfoot, 547 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.359 but finally when they had this footprint appeared in this pond, 548 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.599 they opened up about it. And they said, since I 549 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.119 think for two years, they said, every night they've been 550 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.200 getting activity. They so they get their house slapped. Things 551 00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.279 you know, comes through the woods. They can hear holan 552 00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.400 on the ridge, et cetera, et cetera. So there's more 553 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.359 for us to explore. And uh yeah, we'll be going 554 00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:01.079 out there again in the fall. I'm super excited. But 555 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:05.839 it's just been this amazing thing, Like I said, life changing, 556 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.160 has just been fantastic for us. 557 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:16.440 Yeah. The three toed tracks are these big, big tracks. Okay, yeah, okay, 558 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.359 so this you know, of course I'm speaking in the 559 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:23.440 realm of speculation here, but it could be is it 560 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:25.279 big enough to belong to us asquatch? 561 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.640 They look at okay, look at yes, and three toed 562 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:30.880 tracks are are a thing. 563 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:32.000 Mm hmm. 564 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:38.039 They're a very difficult thing for people who are married 565 00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:40.079 to the the idea of a flesh and blood Bigfoot 566 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.759 being out there, which I'm not. In fact, the longer 567 00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.000 I go on with this, the more I think that's 568 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.200 very unlikely, if not impossible. Three toed tracks are a 569 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.759 big problem because the mammals you know, or rather primates, 570 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:00.839 have five toes, and they don't look like syndactily, which 571 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.039 is like toes fords together. They don't look like that all. 572 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.720 They look like big bird feet, you know, very separate 573 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.880 toes and a lot of flesh and white. People say, well, 574 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.759 that's inbreeding. Well, if you look up how inbreeding works, 575 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.880 that you tend to get more toes, not fewer with inbreeding. 576 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:21.200 So it's they're just weird. They're just weird tracks. 577 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.599 Yeah. And by the way, I'm not in any of 578 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.960 these clubs or groups. I wanted to make sure that 579 00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.759 I had a show that didn't hinge on Bigfoot before 580 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:34.799 I started talking about Bigfoot. Because I'm not in the 581 00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:38.839 Bigfoot world, nor am I in the UFO world. I 582 00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.319 reserve my right to think that a lot of weird 583 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.400 happenings might actually be connected. 584 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.440 Sure, No, I mean it's hard. The longer I'm in it, though, 585 00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:51.000 it's harder for me to disconnect them from each other. 586 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:55.720 There's so much this stuff happens together. Yeah, it's it 587 00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:56.920 certainly seems connected. 588 00:32:56.960 --> 00:33:00.000 Let's say that it seems connected. That's that's the quote 589 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.720 right there, that's the quote of the century. It does 590 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.200 seem connected. I can totally relate with that. I mean, 591 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:10.279 UFO is Bigfoot, paranormal fairy lore. And then you know, 592 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:14.119 in the case of this great story that you've found 593 00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:18.519 yourself in, you've got all this synchro mysticism going on. 594 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:24.279 Oh yeah, and yeah, that's a phenomena that I've experienced 595 00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:29.160 a lot more in recent years. But I've realized that 596 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:33.559 the synchro mysticism is almost like its own type of this. 597 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.960 I don't know, like it's its own a tentacle of 598 00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:43.519 this phenomenon or it's its own entity altogether. But somehow 599 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:48.319 it's all all intertwined. And it's like, you know, it's 600 00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:52.559 just like you with this Witch Diggers episode. I mean, 601 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:58.200 it's interwoven in your podcast journey, yeah, and now and 602 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.440 now it's I don't know, it's interwoven with with the 603 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:02.279 big Bigfoot and everything else. 604 00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:08.480 Yeah. And so I went out there with my friend John, 605 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:12.559 who I have known for many, many many years since I 606 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:14.719 think probably since he was a teenager. I might have 607 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.239 been twenty when I met him. He's a little bit 608 00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:18.920 younger than me, so I've known him for a long 609 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:23.800 long time. He went with me, And if you're familiar 610 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:26.559 with The Hell your series, Tyler Strand from that. 611 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:29.800 Absolutely that's what I thought of you once or twice 612 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:31.119 when you told me your story. 613 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.800 Yeah, so Tyler went with me too, and the three 614 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:41.800 of us have become because of this incredibly close. It's again, 615 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.639 I think this is part of the journey. You know, 616 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:50.280 we've become like very close and very like more than 617 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:55.760 just more than just partners in the paranormal or whatever 618 00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:01.039 you might say. It's it's been really incredible and it changed. 619 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.159 I mean the three of us when we came back, 620 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.719 we spent a week, each of us in separate places, 621 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:14.039 like very depressed and almost sick. It's very strange like 622 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:16.280 like this, but the whole thing is just it's just 623 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:21.119 brought us closer together. It's just been amazing in a 624 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:24.840 very spiritual way. Like John again, I've known John forever 625 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.800 and I've seen this change in John, this incredible change 626 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.320 in John where he's just in this new sort of 627 00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:34.599 like it like activated this spiritual side of him that's 628 00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:39.639 just been incredible to see. And it, like, like I said, 629 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:42.280 it changed this. I think the paranormal can do this. 630 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.880 Sometimes it could change people for the worst, I know, 631 00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.280 but in this case, I think it just brought the 632 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.920 three of us very close together and it feels quite amazing, 633 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.559 and it feels like like we're supposed to be doing 634 00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.199 this like this, this is like something that we're meant 635 00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:58.079 to be doing. I think. I don't mean to speak 636 00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:59.599 for him, but I think the other two guys feel 637 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:04.519 the same. So yeah, I mean that's part of it too, 638 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.679 Like this idea of like this, I guess, like kind 639 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:09.519 of going on this quest, right, the three of us 640 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:12.719 go on this quest and we end up, you know, 641 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.199 kind of closer at the end of it. We all 642 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.159 end up I think change. And I don't mean like, 643 00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:21.079 you know, I'm going to leave my wife or anything 644 00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:22.679 like that, like not that kind of change, but just 645 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:27.039 your perspective on the phenomena is changed, I think, and 646 00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.320 certainly likewise, maybe your perspective on life, you know, because 647 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.679 this is I believe this is about this is a 648 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.119 human experience thing and we've been experiencing it forever that's 649 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.440 why we have folklore that talks about very similar things 650 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:42.440 going back in time. So this is part of of 651 00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.280 what happens when we're here. You know. Maybe I don't 652 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.679 know if it's why we're here, but it's it's certainly 653 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:51.400 something that happens and has been happening to people over time. 654 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:56.559 So it just feels that like like this is my journey, 655 00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:00.119 you know, And a few times in my life I 656 00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.320 felt like, yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be, 657 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:04.880 and this is one of them. For sure. 658 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.280 It's remarkable and it's remarkable how many doors had to 659 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:11.719 open up to get you to where you're at with this. 660 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.320 And also I know you probably can't talk too much 661 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:19.199 about the details of where this is, which I won't ask, 662 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:23.000 but it does seem like this is intriguing to me. 663 00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:25.719 It seems like there's almost like a community of people 664 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:31.480 there at this in this region who are all experiencing this. 665 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:33.880 Oh yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. They all talked to us, 666 00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:36.880 They all gave us interviews. Some of them have positions 667 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.280 in county government. They have everything to lose, you know, 668 00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:42.400 by talking to us, and they were like, no, I 669 00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:46.920 want to tell my story. They told us everything and 670 00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:49.360 I tell you one of the things we saw in 671 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.480 the sky. I've said it elsewhere, I might as well 672 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:56.199 say it here too. We saw a massive fireball. It 673 00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:02.320 manifested out of nothing into the sky and moved in 674 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.400 a very ghost like fashion. It descended below the tree line, 675 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:08.440 and when it went out of sight, beams of light 676 00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:11.440 shot up into the sky, like several beams of light like. 677 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.880 And then we were walking towards where we saw it 678 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.840 go behind the tree line. It popped up on the 679 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:20.159 other side, just a little bit above the trees again, 680 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.920 just enough to let us know, like, yep, you saw me. 681 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:26.360 That was it. I was here. And it drops down 682 00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:28.039 again and again with the beams of light. Once it 683 00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:33.480 drops down. One of the witnesses when we described this, 684 00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.400 his eyes got real big because they were telling us 685 00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:37.800 their stories. And then like, oh, you know what we 686 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.599 saw the other night, because we saw that the first night, 687 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.840 not the first night we arrived. We got there late, 688 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:44.679 we went right to sleep, but the first night we 689 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:46.480 were like out in the field when we were there, 690 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:50.559 that's when we saw this fireball, and we said, you know, 691 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.079 he tells his stories. And then we said, well, you 692 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.480 know what we saw the other night. And his eyes 693 00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:56.639 get big. I could tell, and he said, he said, 694 00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:58.960 you know, I haven't thought about this. He said, I 695 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.199 saw the exact same thing in the exact same place 696 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:02.239 in nineteen eighty eight. 697 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:04.159 Like it. 698 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:05.400 Wow. 699 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:05.960 Yeah. 700 00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:11.719 So one of the big things I'm left with, like 701 00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:18.079 just taking this fireball for instance, were we there? Did 702 00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:20.840 we walk into that field? Was about I think it 703 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.119 was ten It was either ten twenty or ten forty 704 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:27.199 five after ten o'clock at night. And when I say 705 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:29.239 this thing was huge, I mean we're guessing at least 706 00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:32.480 twenty five feet across, probably closer to forty feet across. 707 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:35.119 It was massive fireball in the sky. Looked like the 708 00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.960 sun at sunset, but it was kind of moving around. 709 00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:41.840 It wasn't the sun, It wasn't fireworks, it wasn't swamp gas. 710 00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.760 You know, it was a fireball. That's the only thing. 711 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.159 But one of the things that it's I want to 712 00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.719 say it bothers me, but not in the way it's 713 00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.840 like scary or upsetting, but it's just kind of like 714 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.800 I can't figure it out, is did we happen to 715 00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:00.159 walk into that field and one in a two milli 716 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.519 chance or whatever it would be in time to see 717 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:06.760 that fireball? Yeah? Or did it appear for us for 718 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:10.320 some reason? And it's so why, you know, And that's 719 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.199 that's the thing that kind of haunts me about it. 720 00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.079 And again not in a bad way, but it's just 721 00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:17.239 this question I have, like, like, why did we see that? 722 00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:24.360 Yeah? Yeah, I'm sitting here, I'm debating. I'm just going 723 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:26.800 to tell you the story. It's a real quick one, 724 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:32.039 but I've told it before on here, and you know, 725 00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:33.880 I just I just don't want to overtell it. But 726 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.400 it's so applicable. So when I first started the podcast, 727 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:42.199 I'm sorry, let me back up. Before I started this podcast, 728 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.599 I was talking about it with a close friend of 729 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:51.159 mine in North Carolina and we we were on the 730 00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.519 phone and we were, you know, we were talking shop 731 00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:59.679 about getting this thing together, and he had a a 732 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:02.880 weird moment in the middle of a conversation where he goes, 733 00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:06.440 hold on and he says, I just saw these I 734 00:41:06.440 --> 00:41:12.920 think seven lights appear in a row and then disappear, 735 00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:17.519 and then an explosion happened at a neighbor's house. He goes, 736 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:20.199 he goes, I gotta go. I'll call you right back. 737 00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.840 So as I'm waiting to get back on the phone 738 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:26.719 with him. I was in my living room and I 739 00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:32.280 stepped outside. And I stepped outside. I hadn't been out 740 00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.079 there for I haven't. I hadn't been out there for 741 00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:37.000 a minute yet. And I looked up and I saw 742 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:44.360 an orb fly an arc right right in my field 743 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:48.280 of vision, and it was, I don't know, two hundred 744 00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:52.320 yards away, maybe very close. And it came from within 745 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:55.519 the atmosphere, and it went up and it arcd and 746 00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:58.760 it went over a tree line across the street, and 747 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.920 it went down behind a tree line close to where 748 00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:05.840 there's another neighborhood street over there. And here's the thing. 749 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:11.440 It blinked at me three times as if to say, 750 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.400 like you said, just making sure you saw this, just 751 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.159 making sure you see me. And it was so intentional. 752 00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.400 And of course I'm getting back on the phone with 753 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.320 my friend at this point, and I'm like, you're not 754 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.800 going to believe this. So he has a UFO siding 755 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:34.920 in North Carolina. Moments later, I have a UFO siding 756 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:38.679 for lack of a better word, in Tennessee. We're talking 757 00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:43.639 about doing this podcast about the supernatural, and it's like, 758 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:49.800 at what point, at what point is any of that coincidence. 759 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.920 Exactly to anybody who would say it was, I would say, 760 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:55.760 how rare would it be for somebody to see that? 761 00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:02.719 Incredibly rare? Yeah, and then to have two people see 762 00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.360 that who were just talking on the phone with each other, 763 00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.199 not the same thing, but you know, SIMP, you know, 764 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:09.840 light anomalies in the sky, whatever you want to. 765 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:10.199 Call him. 766 00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.559 In that short of you know, expense of time and 767 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.480 then talking about this stuff. No, that's I mean, in 768 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.239 my mind, they have to be related somehow, like there's 769 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:25.880 something happening there. That was that was the other, Like 770 00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:27.519 I don't know what all this stuff is. I just 771 00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:29.599 kind of generically call it the other. That was the 772 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.280 other saying I see. 773 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:34.119 You yeah, And I always forget this part. It was 774 00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:41.400 a very clean white light. It was so clean, appears 775 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.039 almost an unnatural light. It didn't look like a flashlight 776 00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:48.000 or like a drone or it definitely didn't look like 777 00:43:48.039 --> 00:43:51.480 a plane. And it was just you know, I always 778 00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.199 forget that part, so I'm throwing that in. It was 779 00:43:53.239 --> 00:44:01.320 just quaint, this clean white orb just so entity like 780 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:06.960 the whole thing. But back to that fireball that was 781 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.639 my grandpa's UFO siding. 782 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:10.960 Oh really, and. 783 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.679 I'd heard it many times over the years. He would 784 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.639 tell it at family gatherings and all the It was 785 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.079 great because all the disbelievers in the room would roll 786 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:27.239 their eyes, Oh this again, you know. But I always 787 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:31.519 believed him, and I pressed him on it because I 788 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.800 was trying to get more information out about this. And 789 00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:40.519 it wasn't a cigar, it wasn't something metallic. It wasn't, 790 00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:46.480 you know, a classic saucer. It was he saw a fireball. 791 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.920 And that's what I meant, Grandpa, what do you mean 792 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:54.400 he goes a fireball like it was literally like a 793 00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:56.639 ball of fire that moved over the horizon. 794 00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:03.360 So I've been going back and looking in Indiana around 795 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:08.039 the time of the original Witchdiggers, so the eighteen eighties. 796 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.039 The article appeared in the nineties, but it actually happened 797 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.199 in the late eighteen eighties. And I found this article 798 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:18.199 from Indiana from eighteen eighty eight, and it says, while 799 00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:21.960 globular lightning maybe more common than is generally supposed, it 800 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:24.480 remains for a gentleman connected with the news and adviser 801 00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.480 to have seen still a more singular sight. It was 802 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.079 nothing more or less than a phosphorescent fire or will 803 00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:32.519 of the wisp which emerging from the banks of the 804 00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:35.480 Flint River during the recent overflow, in the shape of 805 00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:38.800 a ball of fire across and above the tree tops. 806 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:42.360 This ghastly fireball made its appearance just as the corpse 807 00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.480 of an unknown man was seen drifting down the swollen 808 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.400 current of the river, his face, calm after the agony 809 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.760 of death, upturned to the pitiless sky. So the dead 810 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.960 guy is a you know, we certainly didn't see a 811 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:58.199 dead guy. This was by a large creek. Some people 812 00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:03.119 call it a river where was But when they describe 813 00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:06.920 it as this ghastly fireball, that's what I mean. The 814 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.639 first thing Tyler said is like he said, that thing's 815 00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:14.119 a ghost, you know, by which he meant I believe 816 00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.880 it had been the nature of a you know, it 817 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.400 did move in a very ghostly way. You know, it 818 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:23.199 kind of did this fish hook motion down and blow 819 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.519 the chin. But it moved very ghostly like that. So 820 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.079 when they say this ghastly fireball in that article, first 821 00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.159 of all, there we go. You know, they're talking about 822 00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:33.400 a fireball in the sky in Indiana around the same 823 00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:35.199 time as the witch Digger. Is very interesting to me. 824 00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:37.760 But the way they describe it though, I was like, 825 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.920 wow that, you know, I don't know that they saw 826 00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:42.360 the same thing, but it certainly sounds very similar to 827 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:42.800 what we saw. 828 00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:46.800 Yeah, while you were talking there, I was looking and 829 00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:48.239 I'm not going to be able to find it right 830 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:52.079 now in time, But this year I was able to 831 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.639 file on Newfork and I found a siding from I 832 00:46:55.719 --> 00:47:01.639 believe Wyoming, very cool account close to one of the 833 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.280 cities out there, and they included a picture. And when 834 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:10.719 I saw the picture, I thought, that's exactly what my 835 00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:15.800 grandpa saw or close to it, because it's you know, 836 00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:22.199 we're talking about a fireball here, and I'm very excited 837 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.480 actually to see what you do with this. 838 00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:25.679 You. 839 00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.199 I noticed you said you're going to do Strange Familiars Live, 840 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:33.320 and I don't know. Do you have you considered doing 841 00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.320 documentary or video footage of this? 842 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:43.519 Yeah, that's a possibility. We need to talk to the 843 00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:48.119 witnesses and see how comfortable they are with that. We're 844 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:54.239 very guarded of this because these people were about the 845 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.039 nicest people I've ever met in my life. And I 846 00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:58.800 mean that that whole neighborhood just embraced us and gave 847 00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:01.920 us access to all their property, night and day. Just 848 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.000 completely gave us access. The main witness gave us a 849 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:08.880 four wheel drive just to drive around, you know while 850 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:11.880 we're there, like a for erunners. Great little little four 851 00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:14.960 wheel drive yet an old four runner is fantastic and 852 00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:18.119 just to you know, hit the trails if we wanted, 853 00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:20.159 and just drive us around night and day again, night 854 00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:23.440 and day. Just the nicest people I've ever met in 855 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.000 my life. The last thing I want to do is 856 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:29.079 bring down a paranormal circus around their heads, you know, 857 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:31.840 and have a bunch of people running on their property 858 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:32.360 and stuff. 859 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:33.119 You know. 860 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:36.199 So we're very careful and we're very protective of them 861 00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:42.119 because of this. So yeah, I'm I mister. Oh yeah, 862 00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:46.480 So that's why we're we're presenting in the way we 863 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:51.480 are as a live show, and you know, we just 864 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:55.599 that's the way it's going to be. Well, eventually I'll 865 00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:57.480 write a book, but for now we're going to keep 866 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:59.800 it as the live show. So people want to hear 867 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:01.440 this where he comes to his live there's a lot 868 00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:02.719 more to it, so much more. 869 00:49:03.079 --> 00:49:07.719 Yeah, that's great. I mean, you know, that's how stories 870 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:12.159 were told for all time as far as I know, 871 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:17.000 before before this these TVs and stuff, started to become 872 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.559 a thing in modern society. It's like you had the 873 00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:23.599 campfire tales, you had the oral tradition. You have this 874 00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:33.760 very old and and and intricate type of of oral tradition, 875 00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:38.039 basically folklore. That's a part of humanity. I mean that. 876 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:43.039 So when I say, whenever I hear you say, you 877 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.199 know we're going to do it like this, well you're 878 00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.360 still getting the story out there, and the story can 879 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:50.760 still be great even if it's just being told. Yeah. 880 00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:54.920 Oh yeah, the documentary. The documentary was the question. Yes, yes, 881 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.840 we made at some point look to do that. I'm 882 00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:00.320 not I just I'm not a video guy. I don't 883 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:03.159 know that much about it, so it require people other 884 00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.840 than me to help us with that. But there will 885 00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:13.199 be audio visual elements to the live presentation. So there 886 00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:15.480 will be like video clips and stuff we will present. 887 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.400 Yeah. Well, you brought up a article there from eighteen 888 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.320 eighties a second ago. I believe it was eighteen eighty 889 00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:24.480 six or something like that. 890 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:25.199 Eighteen eighty eight. 891 00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:29.719 Yeah, okay, eighty eight. I've got one here from eighteen 892 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:33.719 seventy seven, and it's a short one, so I'll just 893 00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:38.199 read it. A party of gold miners traveling through the 894 00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.719 Globe Valley in Caldwell County, North Carolina, encountered what they 895 00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:47.880 described as a wild man, although they only got within 896 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:51.559 forty yards of the man. One miner claimed that this 897 00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:57.199 peculiar specimen of humanity appeared to be a giant six 898 00:50:57.239 --> 00:51:02.199 foot five inches with a funnel shaped head and two 899 00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:06.239 inch long dark hair covering his body. When he spotted 900 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.719 the miners, he pounded his chest before turning and bounding 901 00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:12.119 off into the woods with the speed of a deer. 902 00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:19.159 The party tracked him with guns. The party tracked him 903 00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:21.559 with guns, drawn to a cave deep in the mountains, 904 00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.960 where they found bones of many animals scattered about, including 905 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:27.880 that he had been living oh indicating that he had 906 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:32.599 been living there for a while. And I just I 907 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.519 like that one because it's from North Carolina. I'm from 908 00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:40.519 North Carolina, you know, Yeah, you've probably heard that one. 909 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:44.440 I don't know, Like I've collected so many of these reports. 910 00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:46.840 And I did a book for Pennsylvania, I did a 911 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:50.400 book for the west coast California, Oregon, and Washington State, 912 00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:52.920 and I'm about ready to do one for the east coast, 913 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.239 so North Carolina will be in that. I don't know 914 00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:56.559 if I have that one or not. I'll have to 915 00:51:56.599 --> 00:51:58.880 look back in my files. It's been been a while 916 00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:01.920 since I I've been writing other books and stuff. But 917 00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.760 it's so typical of these other wild Man stories, you know. 918 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:10.679 I immediately when you said that was eighteen. 919 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:13.880 Seventy eighteen seventy seven, seventy. 920 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.719 Seven, I wonder, like, did they even know about apes 921 00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:18.400 beeding in their chest at that point? 922 00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:19.400 It's a good question. 923 00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:24.719 Yes, it's an interesting detail that the wild Man did there. 924 00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:28.360 The cave is a very important detail. You hear that 925 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:33.559 a lot there is something about caves, about underground things. 926 00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:36.920 I will say Indiana that that whole area is filled 927 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.599 with caves. There's caves underneath the entire area where we 928 00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:45.639 were tons of caves around there, but no a lot 929 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.679 of these, a lot of anomalous activity. In general, you 930 00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:58.719 will find caves, minds, some form of people digging into 931 00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:03.559 the ground. And I started picking up on this and 932 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:09.079 it's been pretty consistent. Every time I find one of these, 933 00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:12.840 you know, quote unquote haunted areas or areas that are 934 00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.880 associated with Bigfoot, there seems to be cave mine or 935 00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:19.280 an instance of people doing like some kind of major 936 00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:21.599 digging into the ground. Look at the witch diggers. They 937 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:24.039 were digging in the ground, digging in the ground. Not 938 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:25.599 only were the caves there, but they were digging. 939 00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.199 Yeah, the premise of hailure of course, just because that, 940 00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:34.559 you know, when you said three toad track, I thought 941 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.679 of hailure originally. But that's that's to do with caves. 942 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:43.360 I mean, I'm doing I'm doing another episode on giants, 943 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:46.360 but I just also just finished an episode on giants. 944 00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:51.360 And what's interesting there is it's the same it's these 945 00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:54.800 same states. It's these states that have all like Kentucky 946 00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:57.599 and Tennessee and Indiana, the states that have the caves 947 00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:02.559 in the west Virginia, Ohio and then you know the 948 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:09.320 lower part of Pa where all these giants are are found, 949 00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:11.519 all the well they were found, all the bones in 950 00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:16.320 the burial mounds, the Ohio River Valley. And you know, 951 00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:19.400 I'm trying to find different terminology, but what keeps coming 952 00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.880 to mind is like Middle Earth, Lord of the Rings. 953 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:26.960 But it's like this area of the country was just 954 00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.079 and still is like abundantly humanoid. 955 00:54:31.239 --> 00:54:36.360 Yeah yeah, I mean whatever, And I forget the name 956 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.400 of that culture that they think, you know, like basically 957 00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:48.239 pre American Indian. They left a lot of structures around. 958 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:51.360 A lot of these these stone structures up in New England, 959 00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:55.920 and there's a local park here. It's in a place 960 00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:58.840 called hex Hollow, where there's something called the quote unquote 961 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.599 Hex's murder happened. Uh, it was a faith year. There's 962 00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:05.840 a faith healing practice in Pennsylvania, the shorthand Powell. The 963 00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.920 German name is Brokrye, and it's it's simply a Christian 964 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:14.480 folk magic tradition, mostly faith healing kind of stuff, but 965 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:18.320 part of it is to undo hexes, right, so if 966 00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:21.320 someone felt they were cursed or hext and always with 967 00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:24.679 the idea that the people can undo, can unmake hexes, 968 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:26.920 can also make hexes. So there's a lot of superstition 969 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:32.079 around these Powwow doctors as they were called. This one fellow, 970 00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:34.679 these people believed he put a curse on them. They 971 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:40.039 murdered him. It's a long story. He was completely innocent. 972 00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:44.519 I feel awful for him, but in any case, the 973 00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:47.679 area became known as hex hollowed. In that area, I 974 00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:52.440 have found a series of intersecting walls, so out this 975 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:57.039 park and the local sort of wisdom is, oh, there's 976 00:55:57.079 --> 00:56:03.960 just farm walls, Well, they don't correspond to any farms 977 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.119 that were ever on the map down there, you know, 978 00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:10.440 going through the old historical maps, and they're not built. 979 00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.719 Now there are the confused matters. There are a couple 980 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.960 firmly like Western walls that are that are down there, 981 00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:21.599 But these intersecting walls throughout the park are not built 982 00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:25.599 like like Westerns built walls. They're built like these early Americans, 983 00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:29.159 you know, these pre Native American civilizations built walls. The 984 00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:33.480 intersect they have offering niches in them, which is where 985 00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:36.639 they would have put corn or something. And these niches 986 00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:43.599 line up with the sun on solstices and equinoxes. So 987 00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:48.599 I believe, yes, I have found something. Now the State 988 00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:53.199 Museum of Pennsylvania has is not yet convinced, but I 989 00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:55.400 cannot see what else it would be. There are there 990 00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:59.159 are serpent walls, you know, they wind, These walls wind 991 00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:01.840 and they end in what look like big snakeheads, m 992 00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:07.079 h all kinds of these earthworks. And if you know 993 00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:10.679 I grew up on a farm, you don't. You don't 994 00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:13.760 build a wall just to build a freaking wall, you know. 995 00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:18.719 And these low walls aren't keeping livestock in or out right. Yeah, 996 00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.679 they could be property markers. But come on, that's a 997 00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:24.280 lot of calories. That's a lot of calories. You know 998 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.039 what we did when we come upon rock, We taking 999 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.840 me throw them out of the field. We're gonna build 1000 00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:31.400 a wall with them, right, you know why waste the calories, 1001 00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:34.679 Get moving, get back to farming. I'm just not convinced 1002 00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:39.119 these these are anything. But these this pre like I said, 1003 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:41.119 this pre Native American society. And I'm sorry, I keep 1004 00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:43.480 I keep blanking on the name that they called it. 1005 00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:48.480 But yeah, these build our culture. Perhaps, I'm sorry. 1006 00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:50.280 Are you are you? I know what you're referring to, 1007 00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:53.519 But are you thinking about the mound boat the mound class? 1008 00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:55.840 Yeah, but there's another there's a sort of more official 1009 00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:58.159 name for it. I'm reaching for, but I probably won't 1010 00:57:58.159 --> 00:57:59.320 be able to think of it. But no, I think 1011 00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:01.800 these are the same like the same thing. You know, 1012 00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:05.079 the giant skeletons are related to this, These earthworks are 1013 00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:07.519 related to this. These mounds, like you were saying, are 1014 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:09.599 related to this. And I think there's more of them 1015 00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:14.119 out there than people know or realize. And I think 1016 00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:16.360 I think, sure, you walk through the woods, you see 1017 00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:18.039 a wall it's an old farm wall. But it's just 1018 00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:20.559 when you, like I said, when they start intersecting, they 1019 00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:25.039 go north and south like on the compass perfectly. You know, 1020 00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:29.639 the intersections are places which seem to correspond with with 1021 00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:33.039 different things. So my goal is at some point to 1022 00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:36.480 get maybe get this recognized as a as a you know, 1023 00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:40.840 place of history, and it is a it's a county park, 1024 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:43.800 but you can't rely on the county. They will sell 1025 00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:46.480 off parkland. If it becomes like a National Place of 1026 00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:49.960 you know, historical marker or something like that, then it 1027 00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:52.480 can be preserved. So that's that's my hope one day 1028 00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:54.639 to convince somebody else of what I'm seeing here. 1029 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:58.079 Yeah, we're on the same page there, and I keep 1030 00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:01.400 coming across the same sort of thing here. And because 1031 00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:05.559 I know recently I was talking to a fella and 1032 00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:09.840 we were talking about there's a there's a similar old 1033 00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:17.119 wall in Louisville and it's it's an old ancient wall, 1034 00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:22.039 we think, and you know, it's there's there's an old 1035 00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:25.679 ideology in some of the archaeologists. They don't want to 1036 00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:27.400 you know, they don't want to look into it. They 1037 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:30.440 wanted to fit into this box. But it seems like 1038 00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:33.599 it's older. But I keep seeing this, and you know, 1039 00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:37.760 I was just recently looking at the so I think 1040 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.559 that some of these are old cities, remnants of old 1041 00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:46.280 cities from a race who was here before the Native 1042 00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:52.000 Americans and and eventually probably coexisting with them. And that's 1043 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.679 why I think that wall in Louisville is where it's at, 1044 00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:56.960 because it's on the Ohio River. I think they were 1045 00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.599 using that they were traveling that river U and then 1046 01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:05.559 But I just found a similar thing in Chicago where 1047 01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:09.400 because you said altars and it and it came to mind, 1048 01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:13.159 there was an old stone there called the Wabazi Stone. 1049 01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:19.960 It's in a private collection today, giant I think it's 1050 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:25.880 granite standing stone, has a face carved in it, and 1051 01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:29.360 at the very top of it is one of these 1052 01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:34.320 altars carved into it. I think you said niche altar 1053 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:34.840 or something. 1054 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:39.039 They're offering niches there. They're like, there's spaces in the wall, 1055 01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.280 you know, put usually like corn, I guess or something 1056 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:42.559 like that. 1057 01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:49.800 Yeah, So it's got that. And this was in Chicago 1058 01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.599 for forever. It was there before I think before the 1059 01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:55.880 city was Chicago, and it was right at the mouth 1060 01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.000 of one of the rivers there and the Lake Mission, 1061 01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:07.840 and it looks like it was a place where the 1062 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:12.760 ancient people's do you know about the copper mines. Yeah, yeah, 1063 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:17.119 they were mining all that copper on Lake Michigan, and 1064 01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:19.119 they were headed to wherever they were headed, and they 1065 01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.239 were on their way to the to the Mississippi. And 1066 01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:26.400 they're going through one of these rivers in Chicago and 1067 01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:32.480 they stop and they do their offering for well well being, 1068 01:01:32.599 --> 01:01:39.440 for you know, safe passage. And I also have an old, 1069 01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:43.679 an old map I've been studying. It's the tear Australis 1070 01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:49.360 map and it's got it's from fifteen seventy something and 1071 01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:54.239 right above Chicago it's got or right where Chicago is today, 1072 01:01:54.280 --> 01:02:01.880 it's got on that map listed Chilago. So you know, 1073 01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:06.360 it's just it's it just got me thinking. I'm like, well, 1074 01:02:06.440 --> 01:02:09.119 I think maybe when the ancient people were minding that 1075 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.480 copper and they were they were doing their altars, you know, 1076 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:16.400 in the area that Chicago is today, it must have 1077 01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:18.840 been a port city possibly called Chilaga. 1078 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:22.559 Oh okay, yeah, yeah, you know, I know that's. 1079 01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.559 A lot to connect. There a lot of dots, but no. 1080 01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:29.039 I mean, I I think there's this this again, this 1081 01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:35.000 pre Native American civilization. They seem to have been at 1082 01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:39.599 least east of the Mississippi almost everywhere, Like it must 1083 01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:43.000 have been a massive society, you know, and and I 1084 01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:45.519 can absolutely believe they would have networks of you know, 1085 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:46.960 using the rivers and so forth. 1086 01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:50.239 You said something about Powwell, have you ever seen this 1087 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:50.920 book here? 1088 01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.880 Uh, I'm very familiar with that book. 1089 01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:58.280 Yes, you would be the first person I've talked to 1090 01:02:58.360 --> 01:02:59.360 who knows what this is. 1091 01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:02.920 Yeah, that's that has to do with the with that 1092 01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:08.400 folk magic tradition in Pennsylvania. I find that I love 1093 01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:13.559 that book, I really do. It's on a skeptical I 1094 01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:16.360 can read that and dismiss it as you know, ridiculous, 1095 01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:25.320 But there's there's more to it. I'm incredibly sure of that. 1096 01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:29.119 My experience with that books has been has told me 1097 01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:30.159 that there's something there. 1098 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.840 I think it's from the early eighteen hundreds. 1099 01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:35.519 Yeah. 1100 01:03:35.599 --> 01:03:42.679 Homan was a Catholic who moved to Berks County, Pennsylvania 1101 01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:47.320 in the early eighteen hundreds. And he was a fairly 1102 01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:50.800 prolific writer and publisher, and he did, you know, several 1103 01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:56.159 but he collected those charms and published it Now this 1104 01:03:56.239 --> 01:03:58.440 is a folk magic tradition. It belongs to the people. 1105 01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.719 So I think he did a good thing by doing that. 1106 01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:05.840 But there are people who today want to gate keep 1107 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.280 this tradition and who are very mad at him and 1108 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:11.280 others who write books about it. They're giving away our secrets. Now, 1109 01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:14.679 these are everyone's secrets. These belong to the people. So 1110 01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:17.559 I think he did a good thing by writing it down. 1111 01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:23.039 And this is this book was fairly ubiquitous throughout the 1112 01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:27.360 Pennsylvania Dutch region. Most people who have family here for 1113 01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.760 a long time, they have a copy that maybe that 1114 01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:33.480 was their grandmother's or something. I collect copies of that. 1115 01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:36.719 I have copies going back to the I think eighteen sixties, 1116 01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:41.079 maybe earlier than that I found. 1117 01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:43.519 Do they line up pretty well? Are they? Is it 1118 01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:44.400 the same content? 1119 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:48.119 It's the same content. Yeah, So this book is one 1120 01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:50.840 of the few that's been in print since the day 1121 01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:54.119 it was first in print. It's yeah, it's never been 1122 01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.760 out of print, you know, various publishers. Now it's in 1123 01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.480 public domain, so anybody can publish it. But still it's 1124 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:04.760 never been out of print. But these yeah, the original 1125 01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:07.320 content is the same as as what you have there 1126 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.760 in that reprint. But the interesting thing is in these 1127 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:14.360 old copies they were these were user copies. So you 1128 01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:19.360 get in pencil, often on pages extra charms that people 1129 01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:22.440 have collected from people in their neighborhood, or names of 1130 01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:26.440 other what we call palaut doctors or brawlkers they will 1131 01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:29.719 have written down. And so these books are incredibly valuable. 1132 01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:34.199 Like a researcher like me, yeah, they're expensive, but when 1133 01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.639 I find them, I you know, if they're not crazy, 1134 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:39.079 I will get them because because of that, those extra 1135 01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:42.360 bits that are in there are just just wonderful, wonderful stuff, 1136 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:44.800 you know. 1137 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:48.199 Just to give people an example of what we're talking about, here, 1138 01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:52.400 there's a little, a little taste here on the back 1139 01:05:52.639 --> 01:06:02.159 it says this book shares secrets for curing his stick. 1140 01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:05.639 It's kind of a light type. Here, let me try 1141 01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:12.719 the skin, curing hysteroetics or hysteria, I'm assuming, protecting oneself 1142 01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:18.320 against slander, attaching a dog to a person, making a 1143 01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:23.480 wand for searching for iron or water, so divining there, 1144 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:28.719 preventing malicious persons from doing injury, curing the pole, evil 1145 01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:33.199 and horses, mending broken glass, making cattle or turn home, 1146 01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:39.239 destroying rats and mice, making a candlewick that is never consumed, 1147 01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:43.320 charming guns and other arms, and much more. 1148 01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:49.840 The hex murder I was mentioning before the fellows that 1149 01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:53.119 believed they were cursed, they were told by a woman 1150 01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.840 they had to get either a lot of this guy's 1151 01:06:55.880 --> 01:07:00.840 hair or his copy of the Longlost Friend and bury 1152 01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:03.719 it six feet underground. So that's that's how embedded that is, 1153 01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:06.800 uh in the in the culture here, and you do 1154 01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:09.599 find it. So some of the Pennsylvania Germans did move 1155 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:12.320 into Appalachia, so you will find pockets of it in 1156 01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:17.840 Appalachia as well. Appalachia it's changed. When I was learning 1157 01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:20.880 BESI in West Virginia, I had some banjo teacher from 1158 01:07:20.920 --> 01:07:23.559 West Virginia tell me, if I hear you say Appalachia, 1159 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.000 I'm kicking you out this class. Now everyone says, no, no, 1160 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.440 it's Appalachia. So yeah, trying to stick with it. But 1161 01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:33.519 that's why I say Appalachia because someone from the region 1162 01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:35.599 told me I better not say it any other way, 1163 01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:37.159 and that got in mine. 1164 01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:40.159 Yeah, well, I lived, I lived in the region. I'm 1165 01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:43.599 for a long time in some of my formative years, 1166 01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:45.760 and I'll you could say it however you. 1167 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:49.039 Want, Okay, Yeah, so any young. 1168 01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:52.480 Appalachians or Appalachians, we don't care what you say. 1169 01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:55.559 In any case, you do find pockets of it through 1170 01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:57.440 out there, so which is really interesting. So because it 1171 01:07:57.440 --> 01:08:01.599 gets in sort of mixed in with what they call 1172 01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:05.440 granny magic. Yea granny magic, that the folk magic traditions there. 1173 01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.360 I you know, I just I find it incredibly fascinating 1174 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.400 that the journeys these things to take and then they 1175 01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:14.639 get combined. And I'm good friends with a friar from 1176 01:08:14.679 --> 01:08:17.640 Ireland and he was looking at the Long and Lost Friend. 1177 01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:20.199 He's like, oh, this is very similar to some of 1178 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:22.359 the same traditions in Ireland, you know. 1179 01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:25.560 So it's this sort of it's that oral tradition we 1180 01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:33.399 were talking about. It's that antricate method for passing down information. Yeah, 1181 01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:38.920 this book is incredible. I mean it's this is one 1182 01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:41.880 of my favorite parts. This is what really got me, 1183 01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:44.520 Like I paused after I read this. When I first 1184 01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:47.520 got this book, it's this little part on here that says, 1185 01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:50.359 whoever carries this book with him is safe from all 1186 01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:54.840 his enemies, visible or invisible, and whoever has this book 1187 01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:58.159 with him cannot die without the Holy corpse of Jesus Christ. 1188 01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:02.039 Nor drowned in any water, nor burning any fire, nor 1189 01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:06.279 can any unjust sentence be passed upon him. So help me, 1190 01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:10.920 And that's such an Appalachan thing to say, so help me. 1191 01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:17.279 You know that's I just that whole pencil. I'm glad 1192 01:09:17.319 --> 01:09:20.000 this came up. You know this, the whole Pennsylvania Dutch 1193 01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:25.279 thing has always fascinated with me. My mom being from Pennsylvania, 1194 01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:31.199 she always told me stories of being around the Pennsylvania 1195 01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:33.239 Dutch and all they did it this way, or they 1196 01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:37.880 would do this, and and you know, I just I've 1197 01:09:37.880 --> 01:09:43.199 always found that very fascinating. I just saw a thing 1198 01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:48.319 that Peter Santanello put out. He went to I believe 1199 01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:51.760 he wasn't actually in Pennsylvania, and he was just going 1200 01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:53.800 around doing what he does. He just talks to the 1201 01:09:53.840 --> 01:09:57.359 locals and films it. And he was in a community 1202 01:09:57.880 --> 01:10:05.720 where you had not Amish. Who am I thinking of Mennonite? Yeah, 1203 01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:10.760 thank you. And so he goes into a Mennonite farm 1204 01:10:11.319 --> 01:10:17.079 and talks to the lady there. She's the mom basically, 1205 01:10:17.279 --> 01:10:19.399 and she has all her kids out there in the fields. 1206 01:10:19.399 --> 01:10:22.880 They're all doing tasks and such. But the younger kids 1207 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:28.520 come up and they don't speak English, and this is 1208 01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:33.960 you know, twenty twenty four in Pennsylvania, and she explains 1209 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.159 to him that they learn English at a certain age 1210 01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:43.159 before that they speak Pennsylvania Dutch. 1211 01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:53.079 I guess. Yeah. It is a very interesting culture that 1212 01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:57.119 perhaps because of the language. I think this maybe helps 1213 01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:01.800 it survive. And we have traditions that are very unique. 1214 01:11:04.720 --> 01:11:08.079 There's a a European So when I say a European 1215 01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:13.199 wildman tradition, there was tradition in Europe, especially around the 1216 01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:20.279 Christmas holidays, to dress as wild men, you know, as 1217 01:11:20.359 --> 01:11:23.840 as hairy things. And they have some wonderful costumes in Europe. 1218 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:27.319 To some of these festivals, not always around Christmas, but 1219 01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:29.880 often around Christmas, you will find this Corompus is an example. 1220 01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:32.600 I'm sure people are familiar with, like the crompus thing. 1221 01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:35.159 That's one of these European wild men I'm talking about 1222 01:11:37.079 --> 01:11:40.560 in Pennsylvania. Way we had until Santa Claus took it over, 1223 01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:43.159 we had a surviving wild man tradition in the United 1224 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:47.159 States in the form of bell snickel. Hairy thing came 1225 01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:49.760 from the mountains. Howld knocked on your windows knocked It 1226 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:53.079 sounds like Bigfoot, right, that's that's the legend of the 1227 01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:56.199 bell snickel and it came at Christmas time. So we 1228 01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:59.079 have this surviving. You know, people would dress in these 1229 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:02.239 crazy outfits, you know, and and do what they call 1230 01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:04.479 bell snickling. They would go from house to house and 1231 01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:07.640 hang on the windows, and you know, good kids got candy, 1232 01:12:07.640 --> 01:12:12.119 big kids got switches, all all that stuff. But here 1233 01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:14.520 we have this it's and it survived. And I think 1234 01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:16.199 part of it is because of the language, because of 1235 01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:20.279 the Pennsylvania Dutch language, which is not German. It's closer 1236 01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:23.560 to Luxembourgian than straight Germans. It has a lot in 1237 01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:25.840 common with German. But I have German friends who, like, 1238 01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:28.159 I've tried to get them to translate Pennsylvania Dutch stuff 1239 01:12:28.159 --> 01:12:30.800 for me, and they're like, nah, different not can't do it. 1240 01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:35.079 Different language, you know, it doesn't exactly. It's not one 1241 01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:38.199 to one kind of thing there. So it's a it's 1242 01:12:38.239 --> 01:12:41.560 a unique language. It's a unique form of German. And 1243 01:12:42.600 --> 01:12:44.439 because of that, I think I think that helped the 1244 01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:48.279 culture survive, you know, in a way, help these these 1245 01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:52.159 aspects of it survived. It's very very interesting, very interesting culture. 1246 01:12:53.399 --> 01:12:59.359 It is. And you've mentioned Randy Magic and I know 1247 01:12:59.399 --> 01:13:01.880 what that is. But sometimes even when I still hear 1248 01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:05.920 that term, I think about the faem just that's what 1249 01:13:06.039 --> 01:13:11.159 comes to mind. And I think it's because when I 1250 01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:15.279 lived in Apalasia, some of the grannies that I knew, 1251 01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:18.439 some of the older ladies in the community, they still 1252 01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:26.680 very much believed in fairies. And I only knew. They 1253 01:13:26.680 --> 01:13:28.880 didn't tell me this. I knew this because their their 1254 01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.800 kids and their grandkids would tell you this. They kept 1255 01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:36.279 it very quiet. And there were two things in that 1256 01:13:36.399 --> 01:13:41.319 community that I guess you would call in the supernatural 1257 01:13:41.319 --> 01:13:45.600 realm that people knew about, or you could say, believed in, 1258 01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:49.439 and that was the fairies and Bigfoot. 1259 01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:51.239 Hmm. Interesting. 1260 01:13:54.039 --> 01:14:00.479 Bigfoot was a belief because people were seeing it mm 1261 01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:07.359 hmm in that community, and and then they would go 1262 01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:11.159 to their grandma's and be like, you know, what is 1263 01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:14.960 this and the grandma's would be like, Grandma would start 1264 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:20.000 talking about fairies, almost as an explanation for Bigfoot. Well, 1265 01:14:22.039 --> 01:14:23.800 I know there's this crossover. 1266 01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:28.720 Yeah, yeah, I hard to see them as unrelated. Again. 1267 01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:31.079 And you know, people think of tinker Bell when they 1268 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.199 think of fairies, but many of these stories have fairies 1269 01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:37.359 that could turn into very big things. You know, they 1270 01:14:37.359 --> 01:14:39.640 weren't always little things. They would turn into very very 1271 01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:44.159 big things. So you know, I'm with Grandma on that one. Yeah, 1272 01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:48.000 I think, you know, I think they're closer to a 1273 01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:50.800 fairy than they are to just some undiscovered ape in 1274 01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:53.399 the woods. That's all, you know. I can't say I 1275 01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:56.199 don't know what they are, but just my gut says 1276 01:14:56.640 --> 01:15:00.439 they're very weird. I know, they're very weird things you 1277 01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:02.760 can't explain. They don't act like any other animal on 1278 01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:06.960 the planet, and they seem, you know, a lot closer 1279 01:15:06.960 --> 01:15:08.640 to these other things we talk about than they do 1280 01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:09.520 to a gorilla. 1281 01:15:11.039 --> 01:15:11.279 Yeah. 1282 01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:13.560 I just had a guy on I haven't put the 1283 01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:17.920 episode out yet, but he wrote an encyclopedia of fairies 1284 01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:22.279 with over seven hundred accounts. Wow, I think similar to 1285 01:15:22.319 --> 01:15:24.880 what you do. He went out and he found all 1286 01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:27.520 the archived old articles and such and put them in 1287 01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:32.800 a book, and you know, like yourself, you know, presents 1288 01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:38.920 it in a very appealing and digestible way. But he 1289 01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:43.439 had the same theory about Bigfoot. He believes that Bigfoot 1290 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:48.319 is is like a basically a big hairy face spirit essentially, 1291 01:15:50.520 --> 01:15:56.119 And he was talking about the Book of Enoch, because 1292 01:15:56.119 --> 01:16:00.920 in the Book of Enoch there's this story that these 1293 01:16:01.720 --> 01:16:04.560 there was like an ancient battle, like a cosmic battle, 1294 01:16:05.119 --> 01:16:09.279 and the celestial spirits fell to Earth, and wherever they 1295 01:16:09.399 --> 01:16:15.279 landed they became a humanoid fixture of that tobography, your geography, 1296 01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:19.279 that landscape. So you know, you have mermaids for water 1297 01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:23.640 and fairies for air, and for woods, you have wood boogers. 1298 01:16:23.680 --> 01:16:25.600 I guess there sasquatch, right. 1299 01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:29.159 And I mean, yeah, absolutely, yeah they seem to be 1300 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.439 I mean, yeah, sure you get you get bigfoot in 1301 01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:37.159 the desert too, but yeah, they like it seems so 1302 01:16:37.279 --> 01:16:39.359 related to me. It seems so related to me. 1303 01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:43.119 It's this idea of a hurry Earth spirit. But go ahead. 1304 01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:46.520 Earlier this year, I was at Pine Ridge Reservation in 1305 01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:50.359 South Dakota. I was invited there because they said, oh, 1306 01:16:50.479 --> 01:16:53.039 they're having a big foot flap right now, do you 1307 01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:56.039 want to go collect stories? Heck? Yeah, Like when am 1308 01:16:56.039 --> 01:16:57.359 I going to get a chance to do that again. 1309 01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:06.880 Wonderful people the Lakota I met were lovely and and 1310 01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:13.760 shared with us their culture and their stories and is 1311 01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:16.840 another just wonderful life changing trip. You know, I've been 1312 01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:19.159 very lucky to have some of these, but I was 1313 01:17:19.159 --> 01:17:23.119 impressed by them because literally everybody I talked to except 1314 01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:28.359 one person, had a big Foot story. There was no 1315 01:17:28.560 --> 01:17:31.960 question to them whether real or not real, because it 1316 01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:35.720 was there, you know, they it was real. But I 1317 01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:39.319 asked everyone, what do you think it is? And everyone 1318 01:17:39.439 --> 01:17:41.239 that I talked to said, oh, it's some kind of 1319 01:17:41.239 --> 01:17:44.800 spirit and some kind of spirit. And they also have 1320 01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:48.319 little people there, you know, in the same area they're 1321 01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:51.560 same Bigfoot. In fact, literally in the exact same area 1322 01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:54.079 some of these stories I collected, they saw what they 1323 01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:57.079 call the wee we load, the little people, and then 1324 01:17:57.239 --> 01:17:59.720 big they saw. You know, another person saw Bigfoot the 1325 01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:02.479 exact same place is the exactly raped by this creek. 1326 01:18:04.079 --> 01:18:07.680 So yeah, they're they're firm would convinced to the reality 1327 01:18:07.720 --> 01:18:10.000 of it. There's no question to them. Yeah, no, it's 1328 01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:14.960 it's here. But is it is it a They never said, 1329 01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:16.680 by the way, they never said gorilla, and they never 1330 01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.479 said ape man, nothing like that. They all said man, 1331 01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:23.319 hairy man or big hairy man. That's how they described him. 1332 01:18:24.279 --> 01:18:27.000 And I asked, finally, I asked, one of them was 1333 01:18:27.039 --> 01:18:29.119 telling their stories when the Lakota was telling me the stories, 1334 01:18:29.159 --> 01:18:31.520 and I said, you know, I noticed nobody here says 1335 01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:34.199 compared it to a gorilla or an ape or anything 1336 01:18:34.239 --> 01:18:35.680 like that. And she said, oh no, no, no, it's 1337 01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:39.560 a man. It's a man, big hairy man. So I 1338 01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:42.359 found that interesting too. There was no no gorilla talk, no, 1339 01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:46.079 nothing like that. But yeah, they're all But I would say, 1340 01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:47.680 even after they said oh, it's a big harry man, 1341 01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:51.439 I said, well, do you think it's like you know, like, no, no, 1342 01:18:51.560 --> 01:18:53.680 it's a spirit. It's the spirit of a man, you know. 1343 01:18:53.720 --> 01:18:57.680 That's what they say. So it's incredibly interesting, Like it's 1344 01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.760 just completely there. There's no question to them that does exist, 1345 01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:04.680 does it not exist? No, it's here, it's here. 1346 01:19:05.279 --> 01:19:05.680 Yeah. 1347 01:19:05.720 --> 01:19:08.239 The general consensus is that they think it's some kind 1348 01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:11.760 of omen though, and it could be something good or bad. 1349 01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:16.000 So I think, and I'm sort of paraphrasing from the 1350 01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:17.760 people I talk to, and I don't want to misrepresent 1351 01:19:17.800 --> 01:19:20.479 the culture as a whole, but this is just my 1352 01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:23.159 impression from the people I talked to, was that they 1353 01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:26.760 don't want to see it because they don't know if 1354 01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:28.880 it's a good or a bad omen you know, so 1355 01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:30.279 they'd rather not see it at all. 1356 01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:35.039 That's what I was. That's what was happening in Apalachia 1357 01:19:35.079 --> 01:19:40.600 with the fairies. It's that same idea. They'd rather not 1358 01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:44.159 deal with it because they don't know. I guess if 1359 01:19:44.159 --> 01:19:46.359 it's coming or going or good or bad or what? 1360 01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:48.760 Right? Yeah, it could be good, could be bad. But 1361 01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:50.880 why I take the chance. Yeah? 1362 01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:53.319 Yeah, And I got this article here, and this is 1363 01:19:53.359 --> 01:19:55.840 going to tie in with with what you just said. 1364 01:19:56.399 --> 01:19:58.520 And I tried to find a couple of articles here. 1365 01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:00.760 I'm not gonna lie that. Maybe you aren't familiar with, 1366 01:20:00.840 --> 01:20:04.159 so I try to get real deep. I don't know 1367 01:20:04.199 --> 01:20:05.399 if I could achieve. 1368 01:20:05.079 --> 01:20:05.479 That or not. 1369 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:09.279 But have you ever heard of the Russian wood Goblin? 1370 01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:13.520 Not by that name? I don't know if we're talking 1371 01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:18.039 about the chi I believe it's called is the same guy? 1372 01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:22.520 I don't think so, maybe, but I don't see that name. 1373 01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:26.960 So this goes back to the fifteen hundreds and the 1374 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:34.800 sources Fadim A. Brov Turnabrov. It's from Encyclopedia of Mysterious 1375 01:20:34.800 --> 01:20:40.279 Places in Russia, and it says local peasants in this village, 1376 01:20:40.640 --> 01:20:45.359 located south of Moscow, encountered a hairy humanoid entity, the 1377 01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:48.920 so called wood Goblin. In this legendary place near the 1378 01:20:48.960 --> 01:20:53.520 banks of the river Moskova. The frightened locals quickly fled 1379 01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:58.159 in terror. Other reports indicated that these giant, hairy entities 1380 01:20:58.199 --> 01:21:00.920 have been seen in this area on several occasions and 1381 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:05.720 for centuries, and putedly are able to slip into our 1382 01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:12.119 realm from another dimension. Wow wow yep. Rumors indicated that 1383 01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:16.039 there was a gateway or portal into another dimension in 1384 01:21:16.119 --> 01:21:20.760 the area where large dolmens were located at the bottom 1385 01:21:20.840 --> 01:21:25.479 of the Golo Selvilla Goli. So we're back to like 1386 01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:32.800 ancient sites here now. Decades later. Decades later on, there 1387 01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:36.399 were reports of mysterious disappearances of residents in the nearby 1388 01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:45.840 villages of Dayakovo and Sabdovniki between eighteen twenty five and 1389 01:21:46.960 --> 01:21:51.479 nineteen seventeen. But the legend has been around since the 1390 01:21:51.520 --> 01:21:52.760 fifteen hundreds. 1391 01:21:53.119 --> 01:21:53.439 Wow. 1392 01:21:54.079 --> 01:21:57.319 And it seems like if you were to ask the locals, 1393 01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:01.439 the consensus is that these things coming in through a 1394 01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:02.319 portal or something. 1395 01:22:02.840 --> 01:22:04.880 Yeah, it's interesting, that's super interesting. 1396 01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:09.720 Yeah. Yeah, I can send you that one if you 1397 01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:10.439 want it later. 1398 01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:13.000 Yeah, I love it, love it. 1399 01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:15.800 There's a It actually gives another source too, So I 1400 01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:18.239 think there's like a couple of an amalgamation of sources 1401 01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:19.239 for that, but. 1402 01:22:19.319 --> 01:22:23.399 Yes, that's yeah. So we collect a lot of this 1403 01:22:23.880 --> 01:22:27.520 folklore worldwide. My co author Joshua Kutchen and I for 1404 01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:31.520 the two book series we wrote called Where the Footprints Then, 1405 01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:34.880 and that tackles all the weird stuff associated with Bigfoot, 1406 01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:37.000 and there's no shortage of it. These are two very 1407 01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:41.439 thick books we wrote, But a lot of this worldwide 1408 01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:43.800 folklore like that, And I know, I don't think I 1409 01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:47.520 had that one, but you find so much of it. 1410 01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:50.319 There's these legends all over the world. It seems like 1411 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:56.760 wherever we live, weeping humans next to us, there's always 1412 01:22:56.760 --> 01:22:58.840 the wild man in the wilderness, whatever that wilderness is, 1413 01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:00.800 if it's the forest, if it's the mountains, even the 1414 01:23:00.840 --> 01:23:04.800 desert sometimes, as I said, but there's always a wild man. 1415 01:23:05.359 --> 01:23:10.760 Even in places that have large primates, like Africa, they 1416 01:23:10.800 --> 01:23:12.039 still have a wild man tradition. 1417 01:23:12.920 --> 01:23:15.279 And the islands, some of the islands. 1418 01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:17.439 Oh yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. 1419 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:19.760 It's like you can go to the far corners of 1420 01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:22.960 the earth and get all the wild man accounts all 1421 01:23:23.079 --> 01:23:24.840 your way to the end, and when you turn around 1422 01:23:24.840 --> 01:23:27.439 to come back. On your way back, you're going to 1423 01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:30.920 be discovering new wild Man's stores. That's that's my experience. 1424 01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:33.880 Oh yeah, they've like they've always lived the sides in 1425 01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:36.039 the woods. Now what does that mean? I don't know, 1426 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:40.399 But our ancestors have been telling these stories all over 1427 01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:42.479 the world, all over the world as long as we've 1428 01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:48.960 been around. You know, perhaps a youngian archetype, right, that 1429 01:23:49.159 --> 01:23:53.920 we are manifesting in some way humanity again being we 1430 01:23:55.359 --> 01:23:59.199 who can say, I don't know, but you know why, 1431 01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:01.800 why is it always besides it's always been there? 1432 01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:06.760 Yeah, And you know you sparked something there for me 1433 01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:11.399 when you said the young and archetype. And because I 1434 01:24:11.439 --> 01:24:14.279 got really into I mean I've read young, but I 1435 01:24:14.319 --> 01:24:18.279 got really into Keel in a way in which I 1436 01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:21.760 was reading his unpublished letters to his and like old 1437 01:24:21.800 --> 01:24:26.279 correspondences with like his friends and girlfriends. So I was 1438 01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:29.960 I was going through his letters and most of these are, 1439 01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:32.399 like you know, like I say, they're unpublished, and I 1440 01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:35.960 was able to somewhat track his state of mind through 1441 01:24:36.159 --> 01:24:39.720 the late sixties and into the seventies. And this is 1442 01:24:39.760 --> 01:24:43.319 a man who threw himself at the phenomenon. He became 1443 01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:47.279 a bloodhound on the trail of just all things weird, 1444 01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:50.439 and he got close, I think, to catching up to 1445 01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:56.199 this great unknown spectacle of this whole thing. But on 1446 01:24:56.239 --> 01:24:59.119 his journey, what I found was that this was a 1447 01:24:59.159 --> 01:25:04.880 guy who was hitting these pockets of frustration, because when 1448 01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:09.720 you can't conclusively catch what you seek, you are at 1449 01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:14.720 best adapting a theory. And I think that he is 1450 01:25:14.880 --> 01:25:19.119 constantly stuck in this state of here's my theory. I've 1451 01:25:19.119 --> 01:25:24.279 got to tweak it again. But it's the dot dot dot, 1452 01:25:24.359 --> 01:25:27.359 the eternal dot dot dot. And I call it the 1453 01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:31.119 Kill conundrum. And you know, I recently included in the 1454 01:25:31.159 --> 01:25:33.680 title of an episode just for people who are paying attention. 1455 01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:36.479 I'm just kind of nerdy about it, but honestly, I do. 1456 01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:38.920 I think he was frustrated because he thought that he 1457 01:25:38.960 --> 01:25:43.720 couldn't find real conclusive proof. But I'd argue that he 1458 01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:47.680 proved that there is a whatever we want to call it, 1459 01:25:47.720 --> 01:25:50.199 I'll just call it for the sake of this conversation, 1460 01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:55.079 like an ancient cosmic intelligence. He almost proved that there 1461 01:25:55.239 --> 01:25:58.439 is one by the amount of time that he sacrificed 1462 01:25:59.359 --> 01:26:04.399 by search. His physical and mental dedication to the study 1463 01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:08.640 itself was a form of proof. And you know, also, 1464 01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:13.880 if you really want to go deep alchemically, agregorically, if 1465 01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:18.479 you want to take into account maybe a form of 1466 01:26:18.680 --> 01:26:25.119 esoteric manifestation. If this phenomenon did not exist before Keel, 1467 01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:28.760 perhaps it existed after Keel because of Keel. 1468 01:26:31.960 --> 01:26:35.800 Yeah, I mean he did not have a good time, 1469 01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:39.359 especially later in life, and people would talk to him, 1470 01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:43.319 and I've seen interviews with them where people would basically 1471 01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:45.000 say I want to do what you did, and he 1472 01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:48.279 would say, oh my god, why why do you want 1473 01:26:48.279 --> 01:26:50.199 to ruin your life? Are you trying to ruin your life? 1474 01:26:53.119 --> 01:26:54.960 Allow me to change my theory next week. 1475 01:26:55.359 --> 01:26:57.000 Yes, but I. 1476 01:27:00.640 --> 01:27:05.199 Evidence is a problem. And I wrote about this in 1477 01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:07.920 terms of bigfoot evidence and where the footprints end, but 1478 01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:14.119 it applies across the board with this stuff. Evidence is cool, right, 1479 01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:16.600 Like if I find footprints, I am absolutely gonna make 1480 01:27:16.680 --> 01:27:18.479 casts out of them, and that would be super cool. 1481 01:27:18.680 --> 01:27:20.960 But my goal is not to take this to science 1482 01:27:20.960 --> 01:27:26.840 and say see see this is real. See it's fruitless. 1483 01:27:27.359 --> 01:27:30.880 This is a fruitless pursuit. The evidence we do collect 1484 01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:36.760 tends to go missing. Anything like blood samples or hair 1485 01:27:36.800 --> 01:27:41.359 samples inevitably comes back inconclusive. They'll test it once and 1486 01:27:41.359 --> 01:27:43.319 they'll get something like unknown primate. They'll send it to 1487 01:27:43.319 --> 01:27:45.159 a different lab and they'll come back. Now that's a bear, 1488 01:27:46.039 --> 01:27:50.560 you know, complete or just inconclusive. It's contaminated, it's inconclusive. 1489 01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:53.560 We can't use it. A lot of times it gets 1490 01:27:53.640 --> 01:27:55.520 just go lost. They get lost in the maulth these 1491 01:27:55.560 --> 01:27:59.159 hair samples, they're just gone. They're gone. Oh it's the government. 1492 01:27:59.199 --> 01:28:01.840 What the hell, it's not. Government can't fix the roads. 1493 01:28:01.920 --> 01:28:08.039 They don't care about Bigfoot here. It's something about the phenomenon. 1494 01:28:08.439 --> 01:28:11.199 There are people who have claimed to kill Bigfoot, several people, 1495 01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:17.720 multiple cases of it now the time, not ninety nine 1496 01:28:17.760 --> 01:28:20.079 percent of the time, not ninety nine point nine, one 1497 01:28:20.199 --> 01:28:22.800 hundred percent of the time. These bodies go missing. We 1498 01:28:22.920 --> 01:28:26.000 have no Bigfoot body. So are they lying? I don't know. 1499 01:28:26.840 --> 01:28:31.039 But there's no bodies. There's no bodies. Those giant skeletons 1500 01:28:31.079 --> 01:28:35.960 you're talking about, Oh they were taken away to the Smithsonian. Okay, maybe, 1501 01:28:37.119 --> 01:28:39.560 but if they're gone, no matter who takes them, whether 1502 01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:42.880 it's a black helicopter or some government agency or in 1503 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:44.520 the terms of these big Foot sometimes we'll say the 1504 01:28:44.560 --> 01:28:46.960 other Bigfoot coming out of the woods and reclaim the body. 1505 01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:50.560 If we can't access them. They're gone. It doesn't matter. 1506 01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:54.119 They're gone. The original Patterson Gimwin film from the sixties 1507 01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:57.000 that shows what may or may not be a big 1508 01:28:57.039 --> 01:29:02.479 foot walking across the thing there. My opinion has changed 1509 01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:03.800 on this over the years. I used to be very 1510 01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:08.720 convinced it did show an actual creature. Now and we'll see. 1511 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:12.960 I think time will reveal. But in any case, the 1512 01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:16.920 original film, despite some people who claim to have it, has, 1513 01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:19.359 is not when no one can put their hands on 1514 01:29:19.399 --> 01:29:22.600 the original film, and it's an incredibly valuable piece of evidence. 1515 01:29:22.640 --> 01:29:24.159 We could tell a lot if we had the original 1516 01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:28.760 film just going. You know, this happens again and again 1517 01:29:28.920 --> 01:29:33.000 with this evidence, with this stuff, and I think it 1518 01:29:33.119 --> 01:29:36.800 becomes very much like and I do paranormal conferences, and 1519 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:38.680 so many of them are about like, this is how 1520 01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:40.479 we should collect evidence, and this is how we should 1521 01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:44.520 present our evidence, and these attempts to write these scholarly 1522 01:29:44.560 --> 01:29:49.000 papers on the phenomena and so forth. It becomes like 1523 01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:50.960 how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. 1524 01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:57.680 It's all theory, and it's you're presenting theories to other 1525 01:29:57.760 --> 01:30:01.920 people who are interested in the paranormal people into the science. Now, 1526 01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:05.359 as I say this. There have been some very interesting 1527 01:30:05.399 --> 01:30:09.359 PSI experiments that were repeatable in the lab. These are 1528 01:30:09.479 --> 01:30:12.920 vastly in the minority. I'm talking about your average ghost 1529 01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:16.079 tun or, your average bigfoot person, obsessed with evidence, obsessed 1530 01:30:16.119 --> 01:30:19.600 with collecting evidence, obsessed with convincing people who aren't interested 1531 01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:22.119 in this stuff that it's real. I think it's a 1532 01:30:22.159 --> 01:30:25.079 real problem because I think you begin to miss the 1533 01:30:25.159 --> 01:30:29.600 nature of the phenomena is experiential. It is not. It's 1534 01:30:29.680 --> 01:30:32.399 not for me to prove to you. If you've experienced 1535 01:30:32.399 --> 01:30:33.840 it and I tell you my stories, will go, oh, 1536 01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:37.800 you'll probably believe me. Right, I can tell you my stories. 1537 01:30:37.840 --> 01:30:41.760 You know that's great, But to believe you must experience. 1538 01:30:42.479 --> 01:30:45.119 And the biggest believers of the people who've experienced something 1539 01:30:45.199 --> 01:30:48.720 maybe they just all in orb but they're opened a 1540 01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:52.880 little bit more to some weirder stuff. So the nature 1541 01:30:52.880 --> 01:30:55.560 of this, I truly believe it that this stage in 1542 01:30:55.600 --> 01:31:00.279 my life, the nature of this is experiential. You can 1543 01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:01.720 relate it to other people, you can tell it to 1544 01:31:01.720 --> 01:31:04.119 other people, but you're never going to prove it to him. 1545 01:31:04.199 --> 01:31:06.840 You're never going to prove it to mainstream science. It's 1546 01:31:07.159 --> 01:31:09.560 almost fruitless to even try just go out there and 1547 01:31:09.600 --> 01:31:11.439 experience it and talk to other people who are interested 1548 01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:13.399 in it, you know what I mean. That's kind of 1549 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:15.920 where I am at this point. I'm not interested in 1550 01:31:15.960 --> 01:31:19.239 proving to anybody who's a skeptic or anything. I can't whatever, 1551 01:31:19.359 --> 01:31:23.800 I can't tell you what it is. I think that's. 1552 01:31:23.319 --> 01:31:27.319 What Kill was up against too. He was and like 1553 01:31:27.479 --> 01:31:29.840 I mean, you said, the nature of it is experiential. 1554 01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:33.079 I love that, And you know, I had to abandon 1555 01:31:33.159 --> 01:31:36.680 this eventually, but I did my best to kind of 1556 01:31:36.720 --> 01:31:39.680 track down where Kill was, not to just continue talking 1557 01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:42.319 about him, but no, I'll just add this in here. 1558 01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:45.680 I was trying to track down where he was when 1559 01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:47.680 the Mothman thing started. That's why I was going through 1560 01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:49.760 all his old correspondences. 1561 01:31:49.520 --> 01:31:49.840 And. 1562 01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:59.119 It seems like he was going up from Atlanta through 1563 01:31:59.159 --> 01:32:02.600 Western Carolina into West Virginia, that region we started talking 1564 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:06.439 about right in this conversation, and it seems like I 1565 01:32:06.479 --> 01:32:08.600 couldn't pin it down, but he may have actually been 1566 01:32:08.640 --> 01:32:11.880 in the car on the road on the road of 1567 01:32:11.880 --> 01:32:15.439 West Virginia actually the same time that injured Cold showed 1568 01:32:15.479 --> 01:32:18.760 up and Mothman showed up in West Virginia. It's very 1569 01:32:18.840 --> 01:32:23.520 close and so it's like I had to ask a 1570 01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:26.880 question like how much of that was how much of 1571 01:32:26.920 --> 01:32:29.800 that phenomenon now is perpetuated by the fact that there 1572 01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:33.640 is a madman out on the roads who's hunting down 1573 01:32:33.720 --> 01:32:39.119 humanoids in real life? You know, how much of them 1574 01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:41.800 coming through To go back to that one account them 1575 01:32:41.840 --> 01:32:45.319 coming through a dimension is how much of that is 1576 01:32:45.760 --> 01:32:49.560 intertwined with the fact that there's a guy out there 1577 01:32:49.600 --> 01:32:50.479 looking for it? 1578 01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:54.560 And did the fireball appear because the three of us 1579 01:32:54.920 --> 01:33:00.319 made that journey to Indiana? Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah. 1580 01:33:00.359 --> 01:33:06.000 I mean, because you have these synchrome mystical happenings, and 1581 01:33:06.079 --> 01:33:09.560 it seems like from with all of my paranormal and 1582 01:33:10.680 --> 01:33:14.439 just all the experiences I've had over the years, it 1583 01:33:14.560 --> 01:33:19.920 seems like we're dealing with a phenomenon that interacts with 1584 01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:21.399 us on its terms. 1585 01:33:22.079 --> 01:33:28.119 Yeah, can't make a dance for you, right, Yeah. 1586 01:33:27.359 --> 01:33:27.760 And. 1587 01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:37.119 So much to the extent that I've experienced this person personally. 1588 01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:41.640 Sometimes two people can be looking at the same thing 1589 01:33:42.439 --> 01:33:47.359 and experience something see something different. John one of the 1590 01:33:47.359 --> 01:33:50.800 fellows that went with me to Indiana, he started out 1591 01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:54.680 very skeptical and he's there's a certain place here where 1592 01:33:54.720 --> 01:33:58.720 we see light's mystery lates quite regularly in the woods. 1593 01:33:58.800 --> 01:34:00.319 And he said, take me out there, tell you what 1594 01:34:00.359 --> 01:34:03.840 they are. I'm fine, I'll take you. If you can 1595 01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:07.479 explain them. I'm good with that. Let's let's go. So 1596 01:34:07.520 --> 01:34:09.640 we hiked into this area during the day and we 1597 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:12.520 just waited until it got dark, and not only did 1598 01:34:12.520 --> 01:34:14.159 we see them, but we saw them in a way 1599 01:34:14.159 --> 01:34:15.800 that we never saw them before. I don't know it's 1600 01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:18.479 because normally we would sit outside of the woods and 1601 01:34:18.520 --> 01:34:21.039 look in. We were sitting in the woods where we 1602 01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:23.039 saw it normally saw the lights, and they came right 1603 01:34:23.119 --> 01:34:27.199 up to us, almost like curious and playful, like these 1604 01:34:27.319 --> 01:34:32.199 these orbs and lights just coming at us. And at 1605 01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:35.760 one point John dropped to his knees and he was 1606 01:34:35.800 --> 01:34:37.720 trying to catch one. He was trying to grab one 1607 01:34:37.720 --> 01:34:39.119 out of the air. He's laughing because he's like, I 1608 01:34:39.119 --> 01:34:40.680 don't know what these are. I said, I told you, 1609 01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:44.279 I told you. And he's he's reaching up and trying 1610 01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:47.399 to grab one. And I was about six or eight 1611 01:34:47.439 --> 01:34:49.680 feet to his left, and I was looking at what 1612 01:34:49.760 --> 01:34:52.319 I assume was the same light, and I said, John, 1613 01:34:52.359 --> 01:34:54.600 what do you see? For some reason, I asked him 1614 01:34:54.760 --> 01:34:56.159 and he said, oh, it was about the size of 1615 01:34:56.520 --> 01:35:00.720 a ping pong ball and was going I didn't see that. 1616 01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:03.880 I saw just a little single looks like a little 1617 01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:07.000 led light, That's all I saw. It looked like he 1618 01:35:07.079 --> 01:35:08.760 was trying to reach up for a little led light. 1619 01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:12.079 So I'm pretty sure we were observing the same thing 1620 01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:16.920 and seeing something different, which is you know, it leads 1621 01:35:16.960 --> 01:35:20.680 me to wonder, like, does this stuff Is it like 1622 01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:24.880 a video game and it's skinning this phenomena right in 1623 01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:25.600 different ways? 1624 01:35:25.760 --> 01:35:27.399 I think it is, and it wants you to play 1625 01:35:27.439 --> 01:35:28.760 back and interact with it. 1626 01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:32.039 Sometimes it definitely wants some kind of interaction, whether that's 1627 01:35:32.119 --> 01:35:36.239 fear response, whether that's it's it's looking for something for sure, 1628 01:35:36.840 --> 01:35:38.880 for sure, I don't know if it's always looking for 1629 01:35:38.880 --> 01:35:42.399 fear or like sometimes I think it's like it doesn't 1630 01:35:42.479 --> 01:35:46.800 realize that what now. Obviously, if it's a big giant, 1631 01:35:47.079 --> 01:35:49.560 eight monthster screaming at you, I think that's trying to 1632 01:35:49.680 --> 01:35:53.079 in gender terror, no question about that. But some of 1633 01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:55.920 these things that like it almost doesn't realize how creepy 1634 01:35:55.960 --> 01:35:58.720 it is or how weird it seems to us, Like 1635 01:35:58.760 --> 01:36:00.560 it doesn't quite speak our life language. You know what 1636 01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:03.359 I mean, it's just trying to get our attention. Had 1637 01:36:03.479 --> 01:36:07.359 an instance where I was in the woods and I 1638 01:36:07.399 --> 01:36:11.319 had heard some wood knox and I really didn't want 1639 01:36:11.319 --> 01:36:13.079 to go back in the direction of the wood knox, 1640 01:36:13.840 --> 01:36:16.199 so I knew the trail looped around the other way. 1641 01:36:16.439 --> 01:36:20.560 I was by myself, and it was an area I 1642 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:22.560 hadn't been in. We really don't have time. One day, 1643 01:36:22.720 --> 01:36:24.840 I'll tell the whole story of this, this whole area. 1644 01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:28.560 It's it's very involved story. But I hadn't been there 1645 01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:32.039 for a while because i'd been attacked by a rabid raccoon, 1646 01:36:32.880 --> 01:36:35.159 which I believe was related to a whole bunch of 1647 01:36:35.159 --> 01:36:39.239 other synchronicities and and something I did wrong. I think 1648 01:36:39.279 --> 01:36:41.840 I was sort of being smacked on my butt by 1649 01:36:42.359 --> 01:36:48.319 the phenomena for screwing up a little bit. In any case, 1650 01:36:48.800 --> 01:36:51.600 I hadn't been there much since this rabid raccoon attack. 1651 01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:58.079 I put the recon. I won the fight good, but. 1652 01:37:00.880 --> 01:37:03.399 I'm glad you're still alive from the on the bite. 1653 01:37:04.199 --> 01:37:06.279 It didn't bite me. I still had to get raby 1654 01:37:06.279 --> 01:37:08.920 shots because I've been hiking through the thorns. I cuts 1655 01:37:08.920 --> 01:37:11.960 on my legs and I broke it. I broke its neck. 1656 01:37:12.319 --> 01:37:14.000 But in the process of doing that, I had a 1657 01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:17.520 big walking stick. Okay, in the process of doing that, 1658 01:37:17.880 --> 01:37:20.039 I split it open, so it was bleeding. And they 1659 01:37:20.039 --> 01:37:22.279 were like, just because you had cuts and stuff, you 1660 01:37:22.359 --> 01:37:24.439 need to get raby shots. So I didn't get bit. 1661 01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:26.800 I stopped it. I had. I had to put myself 1662 01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:29.079 between the raccoon and my son who was with me, 1663 01:37:29.119 --> 01:37:32.479 and I was like, you know we it was during 1664 01:37:32.479 --> 01:37:35.039 the day. Shouldn't have been out during the day. I 1665 01:37:35.079 --> 01:37:37.880 told my son run. I tried to run. I looked 1666 01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:40.239 in this thing. I was like, I'm not outrunning this thing. 1667 01:37:40.319 --> 01:37:43.319 So I just thought this is gonna suck, because like 1668 01:37:43.640 --> 01:37:46.359 raccoons could tear you up. I said, I got I 1669 01:37:46.399 --> 01:37:48.199 got one shot. If I hit this thing with my 1670 01:37:48.199 --> 01:37:50.479 walking stick before it gets to me, that's my one 1671 01:37:50.520 --> 01:37:55.680 shot and divine intervention. I don't know. I got it. 1672 01:37:55.720 --> 01:37:58.239 I broke its neck with my walking stick one shot, 1673 01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:01.000 but I knew I couldn't let it get to my son. 1674 01:38:01.119 --> 01:38:03.119 That's the only thing, Like, I have to stop this thing. 1675 01:38:03.520 --> 01:38:06.680 It's between me and my son. Anyway, hadn't been at 1676 01:38:06.720 --> 01:38:10.159 this park much since that raccoon attack because of all 1677 01:38:10.159 --> 01:38:14.199 this weirdness. It was the synchronouses around. It literally floored me. 1678 01:38:14.239 --> 01:38:16.439 There were so many and so much that it like 1679 01:38:16.680 --> 01:38:21.079 I was like stunned, and I was like, I just 1680 01:38:21.159 --> 01:38:22.399 I don't know if I want to go back there. 1681 01:38:22.439 --> 01:38:23.960 And I didn't go back there for a long time, 1682 01:38:24.000 --> 01:38:26.279 but one of my I think it was like the 1683 01:38:26.359 --> 01:38:28.920 second time I went back to the solo hike there, 1684 01:38:29.760 --> 01:38:31.279 I hear these wood knocks. I don't want to go 1685 01:38:31.279 --> 01:38:33.720 towards the wood knox. I go the other direction and 1686 01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:37.760 literally turn the corner and there's a dead cat like 1687 01:38:37.920 --> 01:38:41.000 right in the middle of the trail, perfectly laid out, 1688 01:38:41.119 --> 01:38:45.199 no sign of predation. It wasn't a coyote kill. It 1689 01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:47.760 looked like it just killed over in the middle of 1690 01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:51.840 the trail, perfectly parallel, like perfectly in the trail, as 1691 01:38:51.840 --> 01:38:57.800 if it was walking the trail and just just keeled over. Now, 1692 01:38:57.800 --> 01:39:00.479 I initially took this as something very sinister because of 1693 01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:02.560 what had happened with the raccoon, and there are some 1694 01:39:02.600 --> 01:39:05.159 other there's relations to other dead things that work into 1695 01:39:05.159 --> 01:39:07.840 the story. Again, it's a very very long story, but 1696 01:39:08.720 --> 01:39:10.520 I was like, oh, and it really took me back, 1697 01:39:10.560 --> 01:39:12.800 and I was like really like, oh, but I talked 1698 01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:16.279 to my friend brother Richard the Friar again from Ireland, 1699 01:39:16.680 --> 01:39:18.680 and he said, well, maybe not. He said, maybe it 1700 01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:20.840 was just trying to get your attention and it doesn't 1701 01:39:20.960 --> 01:39:25.880 really understand that that's really creepy to us. You know, 1702 01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:28.439 that's a really creepy thing to us. Maybe it was 1703 01:39:28.520 --> 01:39:32.199 just in a way saying welcome back, here's some weirdness 1704 01:39:32.239 --> 01:39:35.000 for you, and it didn't mean it in a sinister way. 1705 01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:37.359 So I think that maybe sometimes that can be the case. 1706 01:39:37.640 --> 01:39:42.640 Sometimes I don't know, the sometimes it can seem very 1707 01:39:42.720 --> 01:39:52.079 very sinister. I'll say that, yeah. 1708 01:39:50.039 --> 01:39:56.840 You know, it's it's it's always befuddled me though, this 1709 01:39:56.920 --> 01:40:01.760 whole thing, and it's just, you know, I'm a past kid. 1710 01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:04.920 I think that that might have something to do with 1711 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:10.520 why I've had experiences. But I've always been given a 1712 01:40:10.600 --> 01:40:14.199 heads up and I don't know. But for whatever reason, 1713 01:40:14.199 --> 01:40:17.720 whenever you said divine intervention, this is what came to 1714 01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:20.920 my mind, is like I've always been kind of given 1715 01:40:21.000 --> 01:40:26.479 this heads up and about to lose this, so I'm 1716 01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:31.359 gonna plug my laptop in when when I've moved. When 1717 01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:33.560 I was ten, we moved into a house that. 1718 01:40:33.600 --> 01:40:34.479 Was haunted. 1719 01:40:37.439 --> 01:40:44.000 It's severely haunted. And but when when we got there, 1720 01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:47.279 I was talking to the kids across the street. I 1721 01:40:47.359 --> 01:40:49.920 was making friends immediately with the neighborhood kids, and they 1722 01:40:49.960 --> 01:40:52.239 said the house is haunted. They gave me this heads up, 1723 01:40:52.880 --> 01:40:55.520 and they wouldn't back down from it. They they weren't 1724 01:40:56.439 --> 01:40:59.199 they weren't joking. They kept saying, yeah, it's haunted. They 1725 01:40:59.199 --> 01:41:03.520 were serious about it. And of course the previous owners 1726 01:41:03.560 --> 01:41:08.319 had left the house empty, and I went upstairs to 1727 01:41:08.359 --> 01:41:11.000 try and pick myself a bedroom before my brother could. 1728 01:41:12.560 --> 01:41:16.800 I just like kids do, I just opened up the 1729 01:41:16.800 --> 01:41:20.199 hallway closet upstairs, and of course this whole house is 1730 01:41:20.239 --> 01:41:25.039 empty except for the Luigi board. What that was left 1731 01:41:25.079 --> 01:41:25.800 in this house? 1732 01:41:26.159 --> 01:41:26.520 Whoa? 1733 01:41:26.800 --> 01:41:29.600 And the kids had just told me, you know, it's haunted, 1734 01:41:29.640 --> 01:41:32.039 and I'm ten, so I'm just kind of putting the 1735 01:41:32.119 --> 01:41:35.079 pieces together. I know that Ouiji board. I know I'm 1736 01:41:35.119 --> 01:41:37.520 not supposed to have that because my dad's a pastor. 1737 01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:40.800 I know it represents you know, evil or whatnot. So 1738 01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:45.800 and you know, I would go on to to find 1739 01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.840 that that house had some serious Poultergeis activity going on. 1740 01:41:52.239 --> 01:41:56.439 And when we moved, When we moved, when I was fifteen. 1741 01:41:57.119 --> 01:42:00.600 I was so happy to move, so happy to move. 1742 01:42:00.680 --> 01:42:04.399 And we moved back to the mountains, back to Appalasia. 1743 01:42:04.479 --> 01:42:10.520 And when I got there, I'm a teenager, now I'm older. 1744 01:42:12.079 --> 01:42:14.439 I'm talking to some of the kids outside the church, 1745 01:42:14.560 --> 01:42:19.319 my first, you know, week there, and one of the 1746 01:42:19.359 --> 01:42:26.119 girls says, have you seen them yet? And I say, 1747 01:42:26.479 --> 01:42:29.680 you know, I say who? She goes the people in 1748 01:42:29.720 --> 01:42:30.479 the woods? 1749 01:42:30.880 --> 01:42:31.239 Wow. 1750 01:42:32.279 --> 01:42:36.199 And she's dead series. And on top of being dead serious, 1751 01:42:36.239 --> 01:42:40.319 she has these big crazy eyes when she says it. 1752 01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:43.920 And I wish I could just say this girl's full name, 1753 01:42:43.920 --> 01:42:47.000 but I'm not going to because, like it would just 1754 01:42:47.039 --> 01:42:49.479 add so much to this. Because I went to youth 1755 01:42:49.479 --> 01:42:51.880 group with this girl. I remember her full name, I 1756 01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:55.560 remember her face and everything. And she was so serious 1757 01:42:55.600 --> 01:42:59.159 and she was scared, and she's we're having this conversation 1758 01:42:59.359 --> 01:43:02.079 and we're out in this church parking lot in the 1759 01:43:02.119 --> 01:43:05.720 middle of nowhere, and the parking lot surrounded by woods, 1760 01:43:06.279 --> 01:43:09.439 and so the whole time she's telling me this, she's 1761 01:43:09.560 --> 01:43:13.199 looking over my shoulder at the woodline as if she's 1762 01:43:13.279 --> 01:43:16.520 expecting something to come out as we're talking about it. 1763 01:43:17.039 --> 01:43:20.800 And come to find out, it took a while. It 1764 01:43:20.840 --> 01:43:22.840 took a while for me to put together the pieces, 1765 01:43:23.319 --> 01:43:26.640 but she was talking about sasquatch and she was one 1766 01:43:26.760 --> 01:43:31.720 hundred percent serious about it. And her friend in I 1767 01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:34.000 went to youth group with all these kids. Her friend 1768 01:43:34.079 --> 01:43:38.279 was a girl who I dated for a while, and 1769 01:43:38.760 --> 01:43:42.520 this is like, this was, you know, a sixteen year old, 1770 01:43:42.640 --> 01:43:45.600 seventeen year old girl who did not She wasn't in 1771 01:43:45.680 --> 01:43:49.640 the squatching, she didn't care about Bigfoot. He's not involved 1772 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:53.479 in the culture of it or anything. She's not watching 1773 01:43:53.479 --> 01:43:57.600 Bigfoot documentaries for fun. She but she saw one and 1774 01:43:57.880 --> 01:44:00.399 she was scared to death. She lived down a lit, long, 1775 01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:05.520 windy road out in the middle of the country, gravel road. 1776 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:08.920 We used to joke that it was the longest driveway 1777 01:44:09.319 --> 01:44:11.479 in the region because it seemed like it was like 1778 01:44:11.520 --> 01:44:18.439 a mile long. And she one walked out in front 1779 01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:22.239 of her her car, and the way I understand it 1780 01:44:22.279 --> 01:44:26.439 made eye contact with her, and she was afraid to 1781 01:44:26.479 --> 01:44:29.239 tell me. She eventually told me, She's like, I'm, I'm 1782 01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:32.600 She was almost apologizing for telling me the story, but 1783 01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:34.840 she's like, I can't help it because it really happened. 1784 01:44:34.920 --> 01:44:37.800 I've have to tell you. And she was scared, and 1785 01:44:37.840 --> 01:44:40.880 I said well, what was it? And she said it 1786 01:44:40.920 --> 01:44:44.520 was a man, but not a man, and of course 1787 01:44:44.560 --> 01:44:47.199 big and hairy. And we would go out and we 1788 01:44:47.239 --> 01:44:50.159 would do you know, teenager stuff, and we'd get back 1789 01:44:50.199 --> 01:44:54.640 sometimes after dark, and she'd have to psych herself up 1790 01:44:54.680 --> 01:44:56.399 to get out of the car after dark, just to 1791 01:44:56.439 --> 01:44:59.319 go straight into the front door. This was a very 1792 01:44:59.399 --> 01:45:00.960 real thing to. 1793 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:07.399 These I've met hunters who hunted all their life, guys 1794 01:45:07.399 --> 01:45:14.439 that loved hunting, and they see one and they're done. Yeah, 1795 01:45:14.720 --> 01:45:19.479 they will not go back in the woods again. They're done. Yeah, 1796 01:45:20.680 --> 01:45:23.479 you know, doesn't tend to happen with bears. This is 1797 01:45:23.479 --> 01:45:29.159 another strange thing about this, and one of the things 1798 01:45:31.199 --> 01:45:34.920 that I have to be careful the way I talk 1799 01:45:34.960 --> 01:45:36.880 about this, and I'm going to stay up front. I 1800 01:45:36.920 --> 01:45:39.239 do not think Bigfoot is a demon, so please no 1801 01:45:39.239 --> 01:45:43.359 one say that I'm saying that. But when you look 1802 01:45:43.399 --> 01:45:47.800 at the phenomenon and you compare it to marry and apparitions, 1803 01:45:47.800 --> 01:45:51.800 for instance, these visions of Mary all over the world, 1804 01:45:51.840 --> 01:45:57.039 people say brighter than the sun, Bigfoot, they say, blacker 1805 01:45:57.039 --> 01:46:02.000 than black. These these holy visions, not just Mary, but 1806 01:46:02.079 --> 01:46:05.000 some angels, other things that people experience often are accompanied 1807 01:46:05.039 --> 01:46:09.479 by a wonderful smell. The odor of sanctity just smelled 1808 01:46:09.560 --> 01:46:13.479 so good. Smell good. Bigfoot smells like rotten meat and scat. 1809 01:46:13.640 --> 01:46:17.840 You know, it smells horrible, awful smell. People are left 1810 01:46:18.479 --> 01:46:23.199 tired often with these these heavenly visions, but very happy, 1811 01:46:23.760 --> 01:46:30.760 very very fulfilled, very you know, like calm Bigfoot. People 1812 01:46:30.800 --> 01:46:34.720 are left scared, terrified, haunted by it for the rest 1813 01:46:34.720 --> 01:46:40.520 of their life, these these holy visions. They'll leaves like 1814 01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:43.359 flower petals behind. Sometimes they'll get the people get showers 1815 01:46:43.359 --> 01:46:47.239 of flower petals. What is bigfootly behind? Big piles of poop, 1816 01:46:47.560 --> 01:46:52.960 you know, nasty stuff. So I call it the oppositeness 1817 01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:56.439 of the phenomenon. So it does. It does speak to 1818 01:46:56.479 --> 01:47:00.760 something kind of like the opposite, you know, the opposite 1819 01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:03.800 of this heavenly stuff. Now again I'm not saying it's 1820 01:47:03.840 --> 01:47:06.479 a demon, but it does make me go, well, that's weird. 1821 01:47:06.720 --> 01:47:10.279 You know, there's maybe maybe there's something a little bit 1822 01:47:10.319 --> 01:47:14.720 negative about that phenomenon, or maybe just aspects of it. 1823 01:47:14.760 --> 01:47:16.439 You know. I've had people tell me, well, some are bad, 1824 01:47:16.479 --> 01:47:19.239 some are good. I don't know, but certainly the people 1825 01:47:19.279 --> 01:47:21.159 that are left with these effects, it makes me wonder. 1826 01:47:21.199 --> 01:47:25.279 It really does because again, I've seen bears in the woods. 1827 01:47:26.239 --> 01:47:27.680 I don't want to mess with a bear, you know, 1828 01:47:28.399 --> 01:47:30.279 I'd rather not see them in the woods. It's neat 1829 01:47:30.319 --> 01:47:33.279 to see. I've seen a moose in the woods. They 1830 01:47:33.279 --> 01:47:36.960 could be very way more dangerous than bear. It was 1831 01:47:37.000 --> 01:47:38.960 cool to see. I'd rather not see one again. But 1832 01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:40.840 it's not gonna keep me out of the woods, you know. 1833 01:47:41.600 --> 01:47:43.319 And these are, like I said, these are guys who 1834 01:47:43.479 --> 01:47:45.640 loved hunting. Who they could tell they'd be like, oh, man, 1835 01:47:45.680 --> 01:47:47.840 I loved hunting. You know, every year I was out there, 1836 01:47:48.239 --> 01:47:50.680 you know, every day I could hunt in my entire life. 1837 01:47:50.680 --> 01:47:52.119 And like never going back in the woods again. I 1838 01:47:52.199 --> 01:47:55.520 give up hunting. Can't do it. You know, there's something 1839 01:47:55.560 --> 01:47:57.399 about it that's not a bear. You know, It's not 1840 01:47:57.439 --> 01:47:59.399 like I've seen a bear in the woods. It's something different. 1841 01:47:59.600 --> 01:48:03.199 Those are some of my favorite stories, are like the Hunters, 1842 01:48:03.239 --> 01:48:06.560 like when it comes to like a show like Sasquatch Chronicles. 1843 01:48:07.239 --> 01:48:08.920 I know West has had a lot of hunters on 1844 01:48:08.960 --> 01:48:13.239 over the years. Those are always my favorite shows. And 1845 01:48:13.279 --> 01:48:16.920 it irks me whenever I hear people who haven't studied 1846 01:48:16.960 --> 01:48:19.880 the subject say, well, you know, who doesn't see bigfoot 1847 01:48:19.960 --> 01:48:24.960 hunters because they're absolutely wrong hunters. Just it's out there, 1848 01:48:25.039 --> 01:48:25.840 you can find it. 1849 01:48:26.439 --> 01:48:28.319 I mean, wait, And you always get the person who's like, oh, 1850 01:48:28.319 --> 01:48:30.159 I've been in the woods my entire life, I've never 1851 01:48:30.199 --> 01:48:35.119 seen anything. Okay, Yeah, that means nothing. That doesn't mean anything. 1852 01:48:35.600 --> 01:48:38.680 That means absolutely nothing. I could walk down a trail 1853 01:48:39.039 --> 01:48:41.600 and just see something to say, I see a bluebird 1854 01:48:41.800 --> 01:48:43.720 down a trail and I come out of that trail 1855 01:48:43.760 --> 01:48:45.560 and I say, hey, there's a bluebird down there. You 1856 01:48:45.560 --> 01:48:48.000 should go down there and look for it. You go 1857 01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:50.319 down there, that boo bird's probably gone. You may or 1858 01:48:50.399 --> 01:48:52.800 may not ever see that bird. Doesn't mean if we 1859 01:48:52.800 --> 01:48:55.159 wasn't there when I saw it, It's right, it means 1860 01:48:55.159 --> 01:48:56.159 you didn't see it, you know. 1861 01:48:56.600 --> 01:49:00.800 Yeah, we're almost back to does it cheap to show 1862 01:49:00.840 --> 01:49:03.479 itself to you? Or doesn't choose you? And it's you know, 1863 01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:06.840 I remember back in the day listening to Coast to 1864 01:49:06.920 --> 01:49:10.279 Coast and Art Bell was talking to a guy from 1865 01:49:10.319 --> 01:49:17.119 the Ozarks who was expousing all these bigfoot stories and 1866 01:49:17.319 --> 01:49:21.079 Art goes, you know, why did they choose you? And 1867 01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:25.600 he's like, I don't know, but they were just always 1868 01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:29.920 seen to be around. And I'm the guy that they 1869 01:49:30.079 --> 01:49:34.279 like to show themselves to. And another weird thing about 1870 01:49:34.319 --> 01:49:38.560 that one was it was his parents knew about the Bigfoot, 1871 01:49:39.439 --> 01:49:45.800 and they they called them wild man or wild man, 1872 01:49:46.560 --> 01:49:48.680 and he's here, he is on coast to coast and 1873 01:49:48.720 --> 01:49:52.960 he's using the term the terminology bigfoot because it was 1874 01:49:53.000 --> 01:49:56.199 almost like it was generational there. Yeah. 1875 01:49:56.239 --> 01:49:59.319 Well, I think, especially like in the seventies, it was 1876 01:49:59.319 --> 01:50:03.960 this idea that Bigfoot was in California and Oregon. So 1877 01:50:04.640 --> 01:50:06.680 you get a lot of these, like other names that 1878 01:50:06.960 --> 01:50:10.960 people used for them all over the place. In the 1879 01:50:11.279 --> 01:50:14.279 wood boogers in the South, you get some pockets they 1880 01:50:14.279 --> 01:50:16.239 would call them catamounts, which I know is another name 1881 01:50:16.239 --> 01:50:21.640 for a a cougar, but they would I've heard some 1882 01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:23.960 accounts that said, no, no, we called the bigfoot. We 1883 01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:26.760 called them catamounts, maybe because the way they scream or something. 1884 01:50:26.800 --> 01:50:32.560 I don't know. Locally, they were there's one place and 1885 01:50:32.600 --> 01:50:34.840 I know that this is a different creature in Wisconsin 1886 01:50:34.920 --> 01:50:38.039 or something, the hodag. But locally there was a place 1887 01:50:38.079 --> 01:50:40.680 that they were calling it a hodag here in Pennsylvania, 1888 01:50:41.279 --> 01:50:43.640 and that it wasn't this creature of Wisconsin. They were 1889 01:50:43.640 --> 01:50:46.920 talking about a big hairy man like thing. So I think 1890 01:50:46.960 --> 01:50:50.319 these names they probably pre date Bigfoot, a lot of them. 1891 01:50:50.319 --> 01:50:52.760 But you know, until later on, people didn't realize we 1892 01:50:52.760 --> 01:50:54.479 were talking about the same thing. You know, they've been 1893 01:50:54.520 --> 01:50:56.800 on bigfoots. In California, we have the ho Dag, we 1894 01:50:56.840 --> 01:50:58.439 have the Wooly Booker, you know what I mean like that, 1895 01:50:58.520 --> 01:51:00.199 So it could be a little bit of that that's 1896 01:51:00.199 --> 01:51:00.680 going on too. 1897 01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:05.640 Yeah. Yeah, the localized regional names. There's the White Screamer 1898 01:51:06.000 --> 01:51:10.119 in Tennessee. Is there's another when it's it's slipping in 1899 01:51:10.199 --> 01:51:12.960 my mind right now. Of course, there's just the wild man. 1900 01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:16.760 The Tennessee wild man is just another term for I 1901 01:51:16.800 --> 01:51:21.239 think for a Bigfoot like creature. Uh, because a lot 1902 01:51:21.279 --> 01:51:24.720 of those accounts that I've read, when they're talking about 1903 01:51:24.760 --> 01:51:28.439 Tennessee wild Man, it's it doesn't seem like it's man. 1904 01:51:28.640 --> 01:51:32.239 It seems more weird bigfoot supernatural. 1905 01:51:34.039 --> 01:51:36.399 Oh, I remember another gum devil that was another local 1906 01:51:36.520 --> 01:51:38.760 name around here, and they call them gum devils. 1907 01:51:38.840 --> 01:51:43.680 Gum devils. Well, you know what, what what do you 1908 01:51:43.720 --> 01:51:46.840 think about this? Have you heard about those two guys 1909 01:51:47.439 --> 01:51:50.560 that are like and because I'm thinking about that Old 1910 01:51:50.600 --> 01:51:53.840 Coast to Coast episode and I remember I think Linda 1911 01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:55.960 Moulton Howell came on and was talking about the men 1912 01:51:56.039 --> 01:51:58.159 in Black and then they were talking about the men 1913 01:51:58.239 --> 01:52:02.359 in Black of Bigfoot. And have you heard about these 1914 01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:05.680 two guys that used to I guess show up after 1915 01:52:05.720 --> 01:52:08.119 the Bigfoot sidings. Do you think there's anything to that? 1916 01:52:09.600 --> 01:52:11.439 I mean, they certainly had a lot of people who 1917 01:52:11.520 --> 01:52:16.560 weren't related talked about him. Yeah, I've heard about him. 1918 01:52:17.359 --> 01:52:20.319 Interestingly enough, they would they always seem to be the 1919 01:52:20.359 --> 01:52:24.279 same two guys, one big guy. They say he's dressed 1920 01:52:24.279 --> 01:52:26.479 like a biker or sometimes wearing a flannel shirt, which 1921 01:52:26.520 --> 01:52:28.520 if you're a strange familiar person, that should ring some 1922 01:52:28.600 --> 01:52:34.880 bells for you. Man, he's uh. In one instance he 1923 01:52:34.960 --> 01:52:39.000 said his name was Bear, which is super interesting given 1924 01:52:39.039 --> 01:52:42.680 the amount of you know, associations between bears and Bigfoot. 1925 01:52:42.720 --> 01:52:45.600 You know, people most often say it's the most mistaken 1926 01:52:45.640 --> 01:52:51.960 animal for Bigfoot, or a vice versa. He's appeared behind people. 1927 01:52:52.760 --> 01:52:56.840 There's a cop that tells a story of being he 1928 01:52:56.960 --> 01:52:59.039 run into these guys. This cop was documenting a lot 1929 01:52:59.039 --> 01:53:01.760 of these Bigfoot reports locally, and these guys came and 1930 01:53:01.800 --> 01:53:04.399 basically told him to stop it. He gets called out 1931 01:53:04.399 --> 01:53:07.199 on a big foot call se these people's house, and 1932 01:53:08.640 --> 01:53:12.359 he draws his gun on a creature, and he hears 1933 01:53:12.359 --> 01:53:14.439 a voice behind him says, I wouldn't I wouldn't do that, 1934 01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:17.720 and he turns around. It's that guy, that big guy 1935 01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:19.960 in the big biker looking guy in the flannel shirt. 1936 01:53:20.760 --> 01:53:24.079 He's just what, just appearing there. Like, it's very strange, 1937 01:53:24.079 --> 01:53:27.199 and they do seem to be the bigfoot world's men 1938 01:53:27.239 --> 01:53:31.640 in black. I collected lots and lots of accounts of them. Yeah, 1939 01:53:31.720 --> 01:53:35.039 they're they're odd, and they've been appearing at least since 1940 01:53:35.079 --> 01:53:37.960 like nineteen eighty or so. So you know, these same 1941 01:53:38.039 --> 01:53:40.880 two guys. One guy's like nice dressed in a nice 1942 01:53:40.920 --> 01:53:43.199 suit and more business like. The other guy's like real 1943 01:53:43.279 --> 01:53:46.119 gruff and rough and like I said, like sometimes they 1944 01:53:46.119 --> 01:53:48.039 say he's like a biker. Sometimes they say he's wearing 1945 01:53:48.039 --> 01:53:51.079 a flannel shirt. It's supposed to be a great big 1946 01:53:51.119 --> 01:53:55.279 guy too, like real big, intimidating guy. Yeah, that's that's 1947 01:53:55.439 --> 01:53:56.199 interesting stuff. 1948 01:53:56.479 --> 01:53:59.359 It's very interesting. I figured i'd throw it in because 1949 01:53:59.399 --> 01:54:01.640 you know, we're having this, We're not having a flesh 1950 01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:04.439 and blood Bigfoot conversation right now exclusively. 1951 01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:06.039 It's just difficult to do with me. 1952 01:54:06.800 --> 01:54:10.439 It's just fine. I mean, yeah, that's it's great. I mean, 1953 01:54:10.520 --> 01:54:13.800 I I don't know. The more I look into it, 1954 01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:19.800 the more wide open this this thing is for with possibilities. 1955 01:54:21.119 --> 01:54:21.560 Yeah. 1956 01:54:21.720 --> 01:54:21.920 Yeah. 1957 01:54:22.159 --> 01:54:24.039 And people like to pin me down like do you 1958 01:54:24.039 --> 01:54:27.159 think it's interdimensional? I don't know. It's a good theory, 1959 01:54:27.560 --> 01:54:30.319 but I don't know. You're never going to get me 1960 01:54:30.359 --> 01:54:32.800 to say, oh no, that's definitely what it is, because 1961 01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:34.880 the true answer is I don't know. And I had 1962 01:54:34.880 --> 01:54:38.479 to accept that about a short time after I started 1963 01:54:38.479 --> 01:54:42.439 looking into this, you know, I went in charged into Bigfoot, 1964 01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:44.279 and I was like, you know, once I got back 1965 01:54:44.279 --> 01:54:47.079 into it as an adult, I was like, maybe I 1966 01:54:47.079 --> 01:54:50.479 could figure this out, you know, and very short time 1967 01:54:50.520 --> 01:54:53.680 into it, I kind of realized like, nah, it's I'm 1968 01:54:53.720 --> 01:54:55.600 not figuring this out. I don't think anybody in my 1969 01:54:55.640 --> 01:54:58.319 lifetime is figuring this out. And I had to sit 1970 01:54:58.399 --> 01:55:00.880 down and sort of talk to myself because I went 1971 01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:03.960 through like a month of almost depression about it and 1972 01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:07.600 I and eventually I sort of had this talk with 1973 01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:09.880 myself like well, are you are you still interested in it? 1974 01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:10.279 Yes? 1975 01:55:10.720 --> 01:55:13.920 Do you still like it? Yes? Are you willing to 1976 01:55:14.000 --> 01:55:15.720 accept that you just you're not going to solve it 1977 01:55:15.760 --> 01:55:17.840 and just live with the mystery. And my answer to 1978 01:55:17.880 --> 01:55:21.319 that was yes, And it's been way more rewarding since 1979 01:55:21.359 --> 01:55:25.199 that time. Honestly, it's just, you know, just accept that 1980 01:55:25.800 --> 01:55:30.359 we don't get to solve this. You know, solving is 1981 01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:33.039 maybe the wrong way to even approach it. Like I said, 1982 01:55:33.199 --> 01:55:35.159 that seems like almost like an evidence thing like I 1983 01:55:35.199 --> 01:55:37.800 was talking about before. You just experience it. 1984 01:55:39.880 --> 01:55:42.800 Yeah, I know, Ron Moorehead goes into the quantum realm 1985 01:55:43.359 --> 01:55:48.800 m h and pokes around and heat again. 1986 01:55:48.960 --> 01:55:53.199 Yeah, the quantum it's interesting. But someone much smarter than 1987 01:55:53.199 --> 01:55:55.600 me said, if you think you understand quantum physics, you 1988 01:55:55.640 --> 01:55:58.880 don't understand quantum physics. So that's to let's kind of 1989 01:55:58.960 --> 01:55:59.399 leave it there. 1990 01:55:59.680 --> 01:56:03.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah, well yeah we can leave it there. 1991 01:56:03.359 --> 01:56:06.079 And you know, the first time I heard the Sierra sounds, though, 1992 01:56:07.159 --> 01:56:15.560 I thought, if that's real, what we think of and 1993 01:56:15.640 --> 01:56:19.399 what we think we know of as reality is totally different. 1994 01:56:19.800 --> 01:56:22.000 Oh yeah, and and let me take a step back 1995 01:56:22.039 --> 01:56:25.600 and say, I love Ron Moorehead and he's super cool dude. 1996 01:56:26.119 --> 01:56:28.760 I wanted to use again before I was doing the podcast, 1997 01:56:28.800 --> 01:56:30.880 I wanted to use some of the Sierra sounds on 1998 01:56:30.920 --> 01:56:33.520 a on an audio CD I was making with my 1999 01:56:33.600 --> 01:56:37.000 band and I wrote him and I was just like, hey, 2000 01:56:37.039 --> 01:56:39.159 can I just use a short clip of this and 2001 01:56:39.239 --> 01:56:41.319 his answer, He's got the coolest response in the world. 2002 01:56:41.359 --> 01:56:44.319 This this man is. I love run Morehead. He's super cool, dude. 2003 01:56:44.439 --> 01:56:46.720 He said, I didn't make those sounds. Bigfoot made him 2004 01:56:46.720 --> 01:56:48.960 do whatever you want with him. How cool is that? 2005 01:56:49.199 --> 01:56:49.319 Right? 2006 01:56:49.359 --> 01:56:55.079 It's like yeah. And and how confident he is in 2007 01:56:55.279 --> 01:56:59.600 him not making those sounds, right yeah? And and Ron's 2008 01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:02.399 like in it venture. I mean, I totally admire the guy. 2009 01:57:02.600 --> 01:57:05.319 So when I say, like, if you thinking, I don't 2010 01:57:05.359 --> 01:57:07.920 mean to take anything away from the guy. The guy's amazing. 2011 01:57:08.000 --> 01:57:11.439 He's an amazing man and a super nice guy. Just 2012 01:57:11.479 --> 01:57:15.119 like that response alone to my inqreat just like I 2013 01:57:15.119 --> 01:57:18.319 loved it, Like like just super nice guy. So I 2014 01:57:18.319 --> 01:57:21.079 have no problem with Ron at all at all. And 2015 01:57:21.159 --> 01:57:24.239 I do believe that the Sierra sounds are something. Now 2016 01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:27.640 they were seeing Bigfoot and they were hearing the sounds. 2017 01:57:27.880 --> 01:57:30.600 I don't know that they ever saw the creatures make 2018 01:57:30.680 --> 01:57:31.159 the sounds. 2019 01:57:31.399 --> 01:57:35.720 Yeah, So but if those sounds are real, and I'll 2020 01:57:35.760 --> 01:57:38.760 just lay this out for people for the uninitiated. We're 2021 01:57:38.800 --> 01:57:45.159 talking about a recording of creatures out in the wilds 2022 01:57:45.159 --> 01:57:46.520 of California, Oregon. 2023 01:57:47.640 --> 01:57:49.760 That's northern California, northern. 2024 01:57:49.560 --> 01:57:55.439 California, and there you can look them up. They're readily available. 2025 01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:58.439 Just look up the Sierra Sounds. But and you're going 2026 01:57:58.520 --> 01:58:04.159 to hear just a a wide variety of sounds and frequencies. 2027 01:58:04.520 --> 01:58:08.039 But also I think what you're gonna notice is there 2028 01:58:08.239 --> 01:58:10.640 appears to be a language involved. 2029 01:58:11.159 --> 01:58:11.359 Yeah. 2030 01:58:12.279 --> 01:58:17.520 Yeah, people crypto linguists have listened to it and they 2031 01:58:17.560 --> 01:58:20.680 said they cannot tell what's being said, but they can 2032 01:58:20.680 --> 01:58:25.079 tell it's the language. Audio technicians have listened to it 2033 01:58:25.119 --> 01:58:27.439 and they said there is. They had the original tapes 2034 01:58:27.439 --> 01:58:33.439 to test and they said that there are whatever's on 2035 01:58:33.520 --> 01:58:36.640 there is making sounds that go both lower and higher 2036 01:58:36.680 --> 01:58:40.039 than the human range. So it's you know, it's not 2037 01:58:40.119 --> 01:58:46.640 a person. What is it, you know, bigfoot? We could 2038 01:58:46.680 --> 01:58:48.880 certainly say it's happening in the same place as Bigfoot. 2039 01:58:49.479 --> 01:58:52.399 The reason I say this is when they talk about 2040 01:58:52.399 --> 01:58:55.560 these class B encounters with bigfoot. In other words, this 2041 01:58:55.720 --> 01:59:00.039 is the using the BFROS terminology. These are things that 2042 01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:02.960 are Bigfoot like things where the creature isn't seen people 2043 01:59:03.000 --> 01:59:05.800 smell bad smells, they get stones thrown at them, They 2044 01:59:05.800 --> 01:59:10.800 hear guttural vocals like the Sierras sounds sometimes things like that, 2045 01:59:12.119 --> 01:59:14.479 and they say, because they're in the woods, they say, 2046 01:59:14.479 --> 01:59:19.880 oh is a bigfoot. Look at poltergeist encounters. Though, you 2047 01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:23.960 get stones son at you inside of houses, they are warm. 2048 01:59:24.119 --> 01:59:26.000 Now the bigfoot people say, oh, it's warm because the 2049 01:59:26.039 --> 01:59:29.039 bigfoot was holding in their hands. Inside houses. People get 2050 01:59:29.079 --> 01:59:31.159 stones thrown at them with poultrygeist accounts, and they pick 2051 01:59:31.199 --> 01:59:36.079 them up. They're warm, They get bad smells, they get 2052 01:59:36.119 --> 01:59:40.880 these all the same things, including a guttural unknown language. 2053 01:59:40.960 --> 01:59:43.439 I don't know that it's ever been recorded, but it's 2054 01:59:43.479 --> 01:59:50.119 been reported with poultergeist accounts again and again at Skinwalker Ranch, 2055 01:59:51.399 --> 01:59:54.720 the original I believe it was the original. The second owners, 2056 01:59:54.720 --> 01:59:56.359 not the original owners, but the ones that were there 2057 01:59:56.359 --> 01:59:59.199 when they wrote the book about it said they heard 2058 01:59:59.760 --> 02:00:02.479 as language coming from the air, which they said sounded 2059 02:00:02.520 --> 02:00:06.880 like Russian being spoken backwards. Now that could describe the 2060 02:00:06.920 --> 02:00:12.600 Sierra sounds, you know. It's so you have these things that. 2061 02:00:14.079 --> 02:00:15.720 So that's why I say, like, did big Foot make 2062 02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:19.119 the sounds or is it something else? Is it something 2063 02:00:19.119 --> 02:00:21.920 about the phenomena. I don't know, but it's it's certainly 2064 02:00:22.000 --> 02:00:26.359 something they recorded, and I do believe I don't. I 2065 02:00:26.399 --> 02:00:29.119 don't believe very highly in video evidence, and that that 2066 02:00:29.119 --> 02:00:31.479 doesn't mean I don't think it can be captured on video. 2067 02:00:31.840 --> 02:00:36.439 I just think the phenomena, for whatever reason, doesn't like video. 2068 02:00:36.760 --> 02:00:40.560 But audio is fine. We're for some reason, we're allowed 2069 02:00:40.640 --> 02:00:46.800 to record audio. I've gotten some very interesting audio myself, 2070 02:00:47.000 --> 02:00:50.520 including unknown vocals. They don't really sound like with Serra sounds. 2071 02:00:50.520 --> 02:00:53.720 They sound like the only way I could phrase it, 2072 02:00:53.720 --> 02:00:55.760 and I don't mean to be offensive, but it's sounds 2073 02:00:55.760 --> 02:00:59.920 like someone death who's trying to speak but very loudly, 2074 02:01:00.119 --> 02:01:05.560 calling very loudly through the woods, free in the morning. 2075 02:01:05.840 --> 02:01:10.640 You know I recorded that. So you get these things, 2076 02:01:10.680 --> 02:01:12.840 but it's it's it's almost a one to one match 2077 02:01:12.880 --> 02:01:16.720 for Poltergez though, which is super interesting, super interesting. 2078 02:01:19.199 --> 02:01:24.199 Have you heard I've heard the weird sounds in that 2079 02:01:24.239 --> 02:01:26.760 community that I lived in that I was talking about earlier. 2080 02:01:27.359 --> 02:01:33.560 I've heard I was woken awoken one night by these 2081 02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:36.079 crazy sounds. At the time, I didn't know what it was, 2082 02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:44.039 and you know, it sounded demonic, it sounded it sounded 2083 02:01:44.119 --> 02:01:50.560 like multiple creatures that were scrapping over I don't know, 2084 02:01:50.600 --> 02:01:53.199 like a quarrel or something, but it was it was 2085 02:01:53.239 --> 02:01:56.680 a very loud sound. It was very like I shot 2086 02:01:56.760 --> 02:02:00.159 up in bed. Wow, it woke me up, and I 2087 02:02:00.159 --> 02:02:01.840 shot up in bed. I sat straight up, and I 2088 02:02:02.479 --> 02:02:04.479 never do that. You know, it takes a lot to 2089 02:02:04.479 --> 02:02:06.560 get me to sit straight up out of a sleep. 2090 02:02:07.279 --> 02:02:09.479 In fact, I just I think that's the only time 2091 02:02:09.520 --> 02:02:12.479 that's ever happened to me. And I was overcome by fear, 2092 02:02:13.119 --> 02:02:17.279 and I thought, I mean, I'm like, is this really happening? 2093 02:02:17.319 --> 02:02:19.600 And I'm like, yeah, I'm not dreaming anymore. I'm not 2094 02:02:19.600 --> 02:02:26.399 asleep anymore. Just loud, strange, demonic with these parts that 2095 02:02:26.479 --> 02:02:30.760 trail off into what seems to be the language. And 2096 02:02:31.760 --> 02:02:34.479 you know, at the time, I didn't know what it was. 2097 02:02:35.159 --> 02:02:37.439 I went and I talked to my neighbor about it. 2098 02:02:37.479 --> 02:02:44.039 I asked him about it. He said, well, first of all, 2099 02:02:44.119 --> 02:02:46.479 I don't think he told me what he really thought. 2100 02:02:47.960 --> 02:02:51.760 He was an older gentleman, and the older people in 2101 02:02:51.800 --> 02:02:55.279 that community wouldn't. They weren't inclined to talk about this. 2102 02:02:56.359 --> 02:02:58.880 The kids would talk about it. The older people. You'd 2103 02:02:59.319 --> 02:03:02.119 rarely hear that they knew about this, but they wouldn't 2104 02:03:02.119 --> 02:03:04.680 talk about it. So he told me. My neighbor told me, 2105 02:03:05.640 --> 02:03:08.079 the only thing I know that that would be or 2106 02:03:08.159 --> 02:03:15.239 could be, is a pack of wild dogs. And you 2107 02:03:15.279 --> 02:03:18.439 know what I heard didn't sound knine at all. 2108 02:03:19.119 --> 02:03:23.399 Yeah, yeah, no, I've so the sort of unknown language, 2109 02:03:23.399 --> 02:03:25.800 whatever it was. I caught that on a recorder I 2110 02:03:25.880 --> 02:03:31.239 left out in the woods. I've heard these like clacks 2111 02:03:31.239 --> 02:03:35.359 in like kind of howls, and I've heard what they 2112 02:03:35.399 --> 02:03:37.960 call the the eight hundred pounds ol. You know, it's 2113 02:03:37.960 --> 02:03:41.000 like someone something imitating an owl, but it sounds way 2114 02:03:41.039 --> 02:03:44.800 too big. The one I actually recorded one, it's about 2115 02:03:44.960 --> 02:03:47.199 a half oct of lower. It's not not a full 2116 02:03:47.239 --> 02:03:49.600 walk of lower, but about a half foctive lower than 2117 02:03:50.640 --> 02:03:54.479 the other als around. It's pretty interesting. The one thing 2118 02:03:54.479 --> 02:03:56.319 that that did wake me up when I did wake 2119 02:03:56.359 --> 02:03:58.520 up the wood knocks. One night I was camping at 2120 02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:02.399 a there's a ghost town here in Pennsylvania called Pandemonium. 2121 02:04:02.800 --> 02:04:05.079 And for those ghost towns on the East coast are 2122 02:04:05.159 --> 02:04:07.800 not These aren't your western ghost towns. It's you know, 2123 02:04:07.880 --> 02:04:10.840 very wet in the forest here, and that there's no wood. 2124 02:04:11.000 --> 02:04:13.199 The wood goes away, so we're talking about you know, 2125 02:04:13.720 --> 02:04:17.760 rock foundations basically. But we're camping within this this town 2126 02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:21.760 called Pandemonium, which had some ghost stories associated with it. 2127 02:04:21.800 --> 02:04:23.359 We went there for ghosts. We did not go there 2128 02:04:23.359 --> 02:04:26.520 for Bigfoot. But I was woken up about, you know, 2129 02:04:26.560 --> 02:04:30.279 three twenty in the morning by these wooden knocks and 2130 02:04:31.840 --> 02:04:34.479 I could hear them, and I had enough in my 2131 02:04:34.520 --> 02:04:37.000 mind to hit record on my recorder, so I recorded them, 2132 02:04:37.920 --> 02:04:40.800 and you could see in the stereophile you could see 2133 02:04:40.800 --> 02:04:42.640 it's a knock in this side, and it sounds very crisp, 2134 02:04:42.640 --> 02:04:45.560 almost like a baseball bat like clack clack, and then 2135 02:04:45.600 --> 02:04:48.359 it's answered and you can see it in the other channel. 2136 02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:51.560 It's answered by this heavy thud, you know. So I'm 2137 02:04:51.560 --> 02:04:54.960 imagining like, you know, maybe a branch with like some 2138 02:04:55.000 --> 02:04:56.880 spark still on it or something, you know, like a 2139 02:04:56.880 --> 02:04:59.760 bigger log like a thud thud and clack clack, and 2140 02:04:59.760 --> 02:05:07.159 they're going back and forth. I was terrified. I had 2141 02:05:07.159 --> 02:05:09.199 to pee, and I'm sitting there in my tent, going 2142 02:05:09.880 --> 02:05:13.039 I have to go out there, and this is happening 2143 02:05:14.640 --> 02:05:17.479 sounds like maybe forty fifty yards from my tent, you know, 2144 02:05:17.560 --> 02:05:21.920 right in the woods behind me, and I'm just I'm thinking, like, 2145 02:05:22.880 --> 02:05:24.880 my buddy's with me, he's in his tent. I can 2146 02:05:24.920 --> 02:05:27.439 hear him snoring. And there's enough of these accounts where 2147 02:05:27.439 --> 02:05:29.760 you can't wake people up. There's a lot of them 2148 02:05:30.039 --> 02:05:31.720 where you can't wake someone up and you have to 2149 02:05:31.760 --> 02:05:34.960 go through it alone. And I'm thinking like, well, I 2150 02:05:34.960 --> 02:05:37.119 don't want this. I don't want to have to deal 2151 02:05:37.159 --> 02:05:40.479 with this alone. I definitely have, you know, I gotta 2152 02:05:40.520 --> 02:05:43.359 get up and pee, I gotta face this. And I'm listening. 2153 02:05:44.119 --> 02:05:46.800 It was probably only a minute or so, and finally 2154 02:05:46.880 --> 02:05:50.359 I hear him say do you hear that? And I said, oh, yeah, 2155 02:05:50.399 --> 02:05:53.119 I've been hearing that, and we you know, at that point, 2156 02:05:53.159 --> 02:05:55.319 we got up and I felt a lot better, you know, 2157 02:05:55.720 --> 02:05:58.479 having someone else around. The rest of the night, we 2158 02:05:58.520 --> 02:06:02.560 heard stuff walking around, saw some red eyes looking at us. 2159 02:06:02.720 --> 02:06:06.560 A pretty intense night. But yeah, I got woken up 2160 02:06:06.560 --> 02:06:12.840 by knocks that night. Pretty very intense, very intense time. 2161 02:06:13.000 --> 02:06:13.119 Had. 2162 02:06:13.920 --> 02:06:14.279 Yeah. 2163 02:06:14.399 --> 02:06:17.199 Yeah, because when you're out there and you're in nature 2164 02:06:17.239 --> 02:06:21.960 and something like that happens to you, we have instincts, 2165 02:06:22.119 --> 02:06:29.439 you know, we come prepared for this world somewhat with instincts, 2166 02:06:29.520 --> 02:06:32.039 and we're out in nature and you hear something unnatural. 2167 02:06:32.159 --> 02:06:34.960 A lot of times you realize that, oh yeah. 2168 02:06:35.720 --> 02:06:40.159 We were six miles in the state forest. We had 2169 02:06:40.239 --> 02:06:42.760 hiked around to make sure there was no one else 2170 02:06:42.840 --> 02:06:46.279 camping there. There was no one else around us. This 2171 02:06:46.319 --> 02:06:49.000 had to be something with hands, I think, swinging it 2172 02:06:49.079 --> 02:06:52.399 in and the thing that really blew me away, besides 2173 02:06:52.439 --> 02:06:55.479 all the other stuff. We're up now from three thirty 2174 02:06:55.520 --> 02:06:58.079 till daylight. Just like I said, just listening to something 2175 02:06:58.119 --> 02:07:01.279 walking around. It's a lot of ferns in the forest. 2176 02:07:01.279 --> 02:07:03.600 This was in the summer, and you could see a 2177 02:07:03.680 --> 02:07:06.880 wake of something just walking around, something big through the ferns. 2178 02:07:06.880 --> 02:07:10.960 I just walked around our campsite, you know. So we 2179 02:07:11.000 --> 02:07:14.600 had this very harrowing night buying like daylight us here 2180 02:07:14.760 --> 02:07:17.279 and we're breaking down camp and I have to go right. 2181 02:07:17.800 --> 02:07:20.560 And I had my pack hanging on a tree and 2182 02:07:20.600 --> 02:07:23.399 I reached around without looking. I didn't look around the 2183 02:07:23.439 --> 02:07:25.600 backside of the tree. I just reached around and untied 2184 02:07:25.640 --> 02:07:27.840 the para cord that my pack was hanging. And I 2185 02:07:27.920 --> 02:07:31.479 bring the para cord around and on that para cord 2186 02:07:31.680 --> 02:07:33.760 and I was thankfully my buddy was standing right next 2187 02:07:33.760 --> 02:07:34.960 to me, so he got to see it. As I 2188 02:07:34.960 --> 02:07:38.039 brought it around, we locked eyes like what was a 2189 02:07:38.159 --> 02:07:42.039 rusty spring? A bedspring that had been twisted into the 2190 02:07:42.079 --> 02:07:46.359 para cord. Now again, gotta be something with hands to 2191 02:07:46.439 --> 02:07:49.399 do that. It was still attached to the para cord 2192 02:07:49.399 --> 02:07:50.960 when I brought around with and like I said, we 2193 02:07:51.039 --> 02:07:54.000 locked eyes like, what the heck? Go around the backside 2194 02:07:54.000 --> 02:07:56.479 of that tree. Could see another wake through the ferns 2195 02:07:57.640 --> 02:08:01.800 leading right to that tree, and a rusty old bedspring 2196 02:08:02.880 --> 02:08:07.359 was there. It must it who him whatever, must have 2197 02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:09.760 walked right over that bed spring, picked up a pull 2198 02:08:09.840 --> 02:08:12.159 of spring up from it and twisted it into that 2199 02:08:12.199 --> 02:08:15.359 pair of cord. I think it was that's just my gut. 2200 02:08:15.399 --> 02:08:17.520 I don't know. I think it was like saying, yeah, 2201 02:08:17.600 --> 02:08:21.279 I was here, I was this close, within feet of 2202 02:08:21.319 --> 02:08:23.600 my tent, and my friend sleeps in a lean to 2203 02:08:23.760 --> 02:08:28.119 tent standing behind that tree. You could watch him sleep. 2204 02:08:28.640 --> 02:08:31.359 You could watch him sleep maybe ten feet away from 2205 02:08:31.399 --> 02:08:33.520 that tree he was. I was right beside that tree. 2206 02:08:35.039 --> 02:08:36.800 I think it was just like, yeah, I got this 2207 02:08:36.960 --> 02:08:40.079 close and you did nothing about it. It's like Countain 2208 02:08:40.159 --> 02:08:45.640 Coup in a way. It was stunning, stunning. Yeah, And 2209 02:08:45.680 --> 02:08:48.880 if it was a person, hey, brave man, because if 2210 02:08:49.239 --> 02:08:51.000 we'd have woken up and found you in our campsite, 2211 02:08:51.039 --> 02:08:55.119 you'd have had you we were armed, and you would 2212 02:08:55.119 --> 02:08:57.079 have had a hard time. I'll tell you that. Don't 2213 02:08:57.119 --> 02:09:00.000 go into people's campsites atnight, don't. I don't do it. 2214 02:09:00.800 --> 02:09:02.439 You know you're asking for trouble if you do. 2215 02:09:04.239 --> 02:09:04.479 Yeah. 2216 02:09:04.560 --> 02:09:10.439 And I had trees shook at me, just a whole 2217 02:09:10.880 --> 02:09:12.760 other a lot of other sideis I'm not going to 2218 02:09:12.800 --> 02:09:18.159 go into them today, but I'll just finish it with that. 2219 02:09:18.279 --> 02:09:22.720 I there was something too powerful to be just a 2220 02:09:22.800 --> 02:09:25.920 man doing some of doing some of the things that 2221 02:09:26.000 --> 02:09:28.239 I saw as well. And when it comes to the 2222 02:09:28.279 --> 02:09:30.239 trees that were shaking, they were too big. 2223 02:09:31.720 --> 02:09:35.399 I've seen that, big trees just shipping back and forth. 2224 02:09:35.880 --> 02:09:40.000 Yeah, and when it's only two trees, it's not. 2225 02:09:40.720 --> 02:09:42.920 Not the wind exactly exactly. 2226 02:09:43.399 --> 02:09:43.640 Yeah. 2227 02:09:43.680 --> 02:09:46.439 I saw that one day and I was with another 2228 02:09:46.439 --> 02:09:47.920 guy and he's like, oh, that's the wind. I'm like, 2229 02:09:48.000 --> 02:09:49.640 why is it just the one tree and the wind's 2230 02:09:49.680 --> 02:09:52.600 not there's no wind blowing, it's just the tree. And 2231 02:09:52.640 --> 02:09:55.720 it was His girlfriend was across a creek that we 2232 02:09:55.760 --> 02:09:57.640 couldn't there's just no way to cross this creek. It's 2233 02:09:57.640 --> 02:10:02.199 a big more akin to a river, and water's filthy anyway. 2234 02:10:02.199 --> 02:10:05.680 It comes out of York City. I would not want 2235 02:10:05.720 --> 02:10:07.800 to be in that water anyway, but there's there's really 2236 02:10:07.800 --> 02:10:12.640 no safe way to cross there anyway. Yeah, and his girlfriend, 2237 02:10:12.960 --> 02:10:15.479 he was actually showing me some other like bigfoot sign 2238 02:10:16.039 --> 02:10:18.399 that he found in the woods there. His girlfriend was 2239 02:10:18.399 --> 02:10:20.520 sitting by the creek and said, came back up. I said, 2240 02:10:20.520 --> 02:10:23.560 all I heard these low grunts and then I looked 2241 02:10:23.600 --> 02:10:26.359 across and you just this this tree just whipping back 2242 02:10:26.359 --> 02:10:29.560 if it was a big sycamore tree because it was 2243 02:10:29.600 --> 02:10:32.399 white against it, really see it, because it's white against 2244 02:10:32.399 --> 02:10:34.039 the other trees and just whipping back and for a 2245 02:10:34.119 --> 02:10:40.319 huge tree, Like what's doing that? Like yeah, yeah, yeah, 2246 02:10:40.399 --> 02:10:41.600 who knows. 2247 02:10:41.399 --> 02:10:46.039 Here, I've got another siding here. I'll do this. This 2248 02:10:46.079 --> 02:10:49.800 will be the last one I read. It's from Pennsylvania, 2249 02:10:50.159 --> 02:10:52.119 so I had to throw it in right, all right, 2250 02:10:52.640 --> 02:10:57.720 And it's from nineteen seventy three in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. 2251 02:10:58.199 --> 02:10:58.760 Right by me. 2252 02:11:00.039 --> 02:11:04.119 An ungodly looking creature created havoc among the local god 2253 02:11:04.159 --> 02:11:09.760 fearing Amish community. Witnesses described the creature as follows the 2254 02:11:09.800 --> 02:11:13.199 size of a good heifer gray in color with a 2255 02:11:13.239 --> 02:11:18.439 white mane t It had tiger like fangs and curved 2256 02:11:18.479 --> 02:11:22.439 horns like a billy goat. It ran upright on long 2257 02:11:22.520 --> 02:11:26.439 legs and had long, grizzly claws. In one incident, the 2258 02:11:26.479 --> 02:11:29.279 creature sent a team of horses and two brothers flying 2259 02:11:29.279 --> 02:11:33.680 when it approached their haywagon. The following day, a man 2260 02:11:33.840 --> 02:11:36.479 was cutting weeds on his farm about five miles from 2261 02:11:36.479 --> 02:11:40.000 the previous incident when he heard a fierce roar and 2262 02:11:40.079 --> 02:11:43.279 turned to see a monster with three horns and a 2263 02:11:43.319 --> 02:11:48.399 tail charging in his direction. He raised his scythe to 2264 02:11:48.479 --> 02:11:52.920 defend himself, only to have the implement ripped from his hands. 2265 02:11:52.920 --> 02:11:55.479 At that point, the man wisely decided to turn both 2266 02:11:55.560 --> 02:11:58.840 cheeks to the monster and escaped as fast as he 2267 02:11:58.880 --> 02:12:02.359 could run. And then there's one more. A day later, 2268 02:12:02.680 --> 02:12:06.079 a woman was feeding poultry on a farm midway between 2269 02:12:06.279 --> 02:12:11.279 the two earlier incidents, when she heard a commotion and 2270 02:12:11.359 --> 02:12:14.000 turned to see the creature in the act of snatching 2271 02:12:14.039 --> 02:12:17.199 a goose in each of its hands. She bravely ran 2272 02:12:17.319 --> 02:12:20.399 towards the thing, waving her apron. The woman managed to 2273 02:12:20.439 --> 02:12:23.279 recover one of her geese when the creature threw it 2274 02:12:23.359 --> 02:12:26.720 at her, knocking to her to the ground in the process, 2275 02:12:27.760 --> 02:12:31.199 and the interloper then escaped with the remaining bird in hand. 2276 02:12:31.479 --> 02:12:35.159 And that's from America's Nightmare Monsters. 2277 02:12:35.239 --> 02:12:38.159 Okay, a couple of things about that story. When that 2278 02:12:38.520 --> 02:12:42.560 man with the size returned the next day, he just 2279 02:12:42.640 --> 02:12:44.800 found the metal part of the size. The handle was 2280 02:12:45.439 --> 02:12:48.119 he presumed eaten out of it. It was gone. The 2281 02:12:48.159 --> 02:12:50.439 handle was gone, so he just found the metal part 2282 02:12:50.479 --> 02:12:53.920 of the side. But that is misattributed to Lancaster County. 2283 02:12:54.199 --> 02:12:57.600 That's actually from Happy Valley. It's the Amish in the 2284 02:12:57.640 --> 02:13:00.399 middle of the state. And I think whoever elected that 2285 02:13:00.439 --> 02:13:04.159 story originally saw Amish and there's so associated with Lancaster County. 2286 02:13:04.159 --> 02:13:05.720 I think they just went, oh, it's Langster County because 2287 02:13:05.720 --> 02:13:08.279 it's Amish. But it's actually in a place called Happy Valley. 2288 02:13:08.279 --> 02:13:10.079 It's in the middle of the state. But you have 2289 02:13:10.079 --> 02:13:13.199 a fantastic account. All the other details are spot on. 2290 02:13:13.600 --> 02:13:15.159 I figured you would have known that one. 2291 02:13:15.520 --> 02:13:18.920 Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. It's hard to get 2292 02:13:18.920 --> 02:13:21.159 the Amage to talk about this stuff. They don't like 2293 02:13:21.239 --> 02:13:25.720 to neither do there's a there's a Welsh community here 2294 02:13:25.720 --> 02:13:30.399 where they still have church services in Welsh right here 2295 02:13:30.439 --> 02:13:32.920 in York County, Pennsylvania. It's a wonderful community. There's a 2296 02:13:32.960 --> 02:13:35.319 lot of strangeness that happens there, a lot of big 2297 02:13:35.319 --> 02:13:39.439 foot sightings, a lot of other stuff. And I wanted 2298 02:13:39.439 --> 02:13:42.800 to talk to the Welsh people because I truly believe 2299 02:13:42.840 --> 02:13:45.640 people bring their folkslore with them. You're talking about fairies 2300 02:13:45.640 --> 02:13:48.760 and Appalachias because there's a heavy Scots Irish population there. 2301 02:13:48.920 --> 02:13:52.680 They brought that folklore with them. So I thought these, 2302 02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:55.920 well Welsh have a fairy tradition too, and I would 2303 02:13:55.960 --> 02:13:58.000 love to talk to them. But the Welsh they don't 2304 02:13:58.039 --> 02:14:00.239 talk about this stuff like the Amish, they don't talk 2305 02:14:00.279 --> 02:14:02.840 about it. So that I went to the Historical Society 2306 02:14:02.880 --> 02:14:04.520 there and they're like, you'll never get them to talk. 2307 02:14:05.039 --> 02:14:07.159 And I happened to mention this to someone in the 2308 02:14:07.239 --> 02:14:09.000 UK and they said, oh, yeah, the Welsh they just 2309 02:14:09.000 --> 02:14:12.720 don't talk about this stuff. So it's it's just not done. 2310 02:14:12.880 --> 02:14:17.600 So yeah, I'm sure the Amish have a lot more 2311 02:14:17.680 --> 02:14:20.199 stories and I wish they would talk about it, but 2312 02:14:20.800 --> 02:14:23.000 they just don't. They don't. It's not what they do. 2313 02:14:23.520 --> 02:14:25.479 Yeah. 2314 02:14:25.960 --> 02:14:31.359 Yeah, I've been through so York, PA, that Central that 2315 02:14:31.439 --> 02:14:34.399 was Central Okay. Now, I don't know if I've been 2316 02:14:34.479 --> 02:14:40.680 through York, but I've been through Pennsylvania from the Philly side. 2317 02:14:40.840 --> 02:14:41.600 I drove. 2318 02:14:43.960 --> 02:14:48.000 Across to Pittsburgh, okay, and I went went north of 2319 02:14:48.399 --> 02:14:49.119 York then. 2320 02:14:49.239 --> 02:14:52.680 Okay, And I will say this, it is beautiful country. 2321 02:14:53.000 --> 02:14:57.800 Oh yeah, but it is very it's sparse. It's sparsely populated. 2322 02:14:58.039 --> 02:15:00.359 In the middle of the state there. Yeah, Like where 2323 02:15:00.359 --> 02:15:04.640 I am, it's it's close enough to Maryland where you 2324 02:15:04.680 --> 02:15:09.479 get a lot of like commuters from Baltimore even here, 2325 02:15:09.560 --> 02:15:11.479 so it's it's a little more populated where I am. 2326 02:15:11.479 --> 02:15:13.800 But in the middle of the state, yeah, it's it's 2327 02:15:13.840 --> 02:15:17.319 super sparse, very very low light pollution there. If you 2328 02:15:17.439 --> 02:15:19.840 if you like the SkyWatch, it's like a wonderful place 2329 02:15:19.840 --> 02:15:23.439 to go, especially the north central Pennsylvania. It's like almost 2330 02:15:23.560 --> 02:15:26.640 zero light pollution there. It's incredible. Do you see darkness 2331 02:15:26.640 --> 02:15:28.600 there like you rarely see anywhere? 2332 02:15:28.920 --> 02:15:35.960 Well, yes, and it's just National parks stacked. There's like 2333 02:15:36.520 --> 02:15:39.039 one of those areas. I think there was just six 2334 02:15:39.159 --> 02:15:41.720 National parks in a row. That's what it seemed like. 2335 02:15:42.279 --> 02:15:46.800 Yeah, yep, it's yeah, it's it's it's a great place 2336 02:15:46.840 --> 02:15:51.000 for that too. Yeah, I have. I have some complaints 2337 02:15:51.039 --> 02:15:52.760 about the way the local parks are handed, but it 2338 02:15:52.880 --> 02:15:57.479 handled but in general they are creating and keeping green 2339 02:15:57.520 --> 02:16:02.279 spaces here in a really special way that as a hiker, 2340 02:16:02.960 --> 02:16:05.000 never mind the paranormal, as someone who loves to hike, 2341 02:16:05.720 --> 02:16:09.920 is is wonderful to see. There's some private organizations that 2342 02:16:09.960 --> 02:16:12.279 are doing and they just they're making this land available 2343 02:16:12.319 --> 02:16:15.800 to people to hike, to hunt, fish, whatever, and it's 2344 02:16:15.840 --> 02:16:19.079 it's just wonderful. They're just saving block after block, hundreds 2345 02:16:19.079 --> 02:16:21.479 of acres at a time and just making it green 2346 02:16:21.520 --> 02:16:25.359 space for people, and it's just it's fantastic, incredible. 2347 02:16:25.680 --> 02:16:28.880 So when's the next book and what and when are 2348 02:16:28.960 --> 02:16:29.439 you thinking? 2349 02:16:29.840 --> 02:16:32.239 Okay, So the next book is called I Have Never 2350 02:16:32.399 --> 02:16:35.639 Minded the Loneliness and it's about hermits. It's my first 2351 02:16:35.639 --> 02:16:38.239 book that's not really paranormal, though there are there are 2352 02:16:38.239 --> 02:16:41.440 some hermits who told fortunes. There's one hermit that was 2353 02:16:41.440 --> 02:16:45.840 actually mistaken for a bigfoot, but mostly it's it's my 2354 02:16:45.920 --> 02:16:49.719 first book that's like, it's not really paranormal focused. It's 2355 02:16:49.440 --> 02:16:53.159 the story of these hermits in their lives, which are 2356 02:16:53.200 --> 02:16:58.000 super interesting, and it's based on my photo collection I 2357 02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:00.760 started collecting photos of these guys from the eighteen hundreds 2358 02:17:00.760 --> 02:17:04.280 to early nineteen hundreds. After my wife bought me one 2359 02:17:04.399 --> 02:17:06.600 basically said Dell, you're like, this is like a wild man. 2360 02:17:06.760 --> 02:17:08.520 It's like it's the hermit. He's like a wild man. 2361 02:17:08.559 --> 02:17:11.719 You'll like this. And I looked up the guy and 2362 02:17:11.760 --> 02:17:13.959 his story blew me away, and so I became interested, 2363 02:17:14.000 --> 02:17:16.760 and I started collecting pictures of other hermits. So when 2364 02:17:16.799 --> 02:17:18.040 I started writing a book, it is like, well, how 2365 02:17:18.040 --> 02:17:19.600 am I going to narrow it down? There's way too 2366 02:17:19.639 --> 02:17:22.760 many hermits, way more than you'd ever think. Well, just 2367 02:17:22.799 --> 02:17:26.479 based on my photo collection. So almost every hermit, there's 2368 02:17:26.520 --> 02:17:28.079 one or two in the book you don't get to 2369 02:17:28.079 --> 02:17:30.319 see photos of, but almost every hermit you get to 2370 02:17:30.319 --> 02:17:31.920 see the photo. You get to see what they look like. 2371 02:17:32.319 --> 02:17:36.479 I did tons of illustrations for it. It's, my opinion, 2372 02:17:36.639 --> 02:17:42.120 the best illustrated book I've ever done, and over three 2373 02:17:42.159 --> 02:17:46.840 hundred pages of hermit stories and illustrations and photos, and 2374 02:17:46.920 --> 02:17:48.840 I think it's a really interesting topic. We've done some 2375 02:17:49.000 --> 02:17:51.399 hermit stories on strange familiars and people seem to like them, 2376 02:17:51.799 --> 02:17:53.920 so you know there'll be a whole book. 2377 02:17:54.520 --> 02:17:57.319 They're fascinating they're absolutely fascinating. 2378 02:17:57.600 --> 02:17:59.079 That'll be before the end of the year. I'm done 2379 02:17:59.079 --> 02:18:02.840 the writing. I'm done eighty five percent of the art. 2380 02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:04.639 I have a little bit more art to do for 2381 02:18:04.719 --> 02:18:07.760 it and got to get it edited. But it should 2382 02:18:07.799 --> 02:18:10.520 be out in twenty twenty four. I'm excited. Excited. Had 2383 02:18:10.520 --> 02:18:12.079 a book out in a while. I've been working on 2384 02:18:12.120 --> 02:18:14.000 this one. It's been a lot of work on this one. 2385 02:18:14.760 --> 02:18:18.920 I'm excited for that too. I like kermits, you know. 2386 02:18:19.040 --> 02:18:22.639 I think that that's once you get into the stories, 2387 02:18:22.920 --> 02:18:25.680 you start to realize how incredible the stories really are. 2388 02:18:26.079 --> 02:18:28.559 You know, you'll find yourself kind of lost in it, 2389 02:18:28.760 --> 02:18:31.639 you know. I was looking at one recently. I had 2390 02:18:31.639 --> 02:18:35.159 a guest on and we were talking about the ancient past, 2391 02:18:35.600 --> 02:18:41.040 and this guest mentioned a pyramid that he knew about 2392 02:18:41.120 --> 02:18:44.959 that was on an island up in the Great Lakes. 2393 02:18:45.239 --> 02:18:47.399 And I don't have all that information with me right now, 2394 02:18:47.440 --> 02:18:50.760 but basically I looked up the island. I found this 2395 02:18:52.360 --> 02:18:54.680 the name of this island, and like, there's a little 2396 02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:58.760 community there. But it turns out the island is famous 2397 02:18:58.799 --> 02:19:04.319 for this tomb that's there today of this hermit, and 2398 02:19:05.000 --> 02:19:09.079 he was he went to the island to get away from, 2399 02:19:09.719 --> 02:19:13.920 you know, society basically. But he was a healer mm hmm, 2400 02:19:14.520 --> 02:19:19.719 so he ended up being these people like a big 2401 02:19:20.799 --> 02:19:24.159 help to all his neighbors in that you you know, 2402 02:19:24.280 --> 02:19:26.840 in in terms of healing and other things. So I 2403 02:19:26.879 --> 02:19:31.680 got sucked right into it. And those those hermit stories 2404 02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:32.879 are so rich. 2405 02:19:33.280 --> 02:19:36.239 So yeah, And I mean some of them I couldn't 2406 02:19:36.239 --> 02:19:37.639 find a lot. So some of them it's just a 2407 02:19:37.639 --> 02:19:38.319 couple of pages. 2408 02:19:39.200 --> 02:19:39.360 Uh. 2409 02:19:39.360 --> 02:19:41.440 Some of them are are much longer, you know, depending 2410 02:19:41.440 --> 02:19:43.479 on how much information I could find on these these 2411 02:19:43.680 --> 02:19:47.200 men and women by far more men. But there are 2412 02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:52.680 some women hermits in the book. But they're so interesting 2413 02:19:53.440 --> 02:19:57.079 and and I think to capture their lives, you know, 2414 02:19:57.159 --> 02:19:59.719 these these people that could have been forgotten. They're sort 2415 02:19:59.719 --> 02:20:02.639 of like people that walked away from society right easy 2416 02:20:02.639 --> 02:20:06.200 to be forgotten. And I feel in a way like 2417 02:20:06.239 --> 02:20:10.360 it's almost this responsibility. One of them, she's a woman. 2418 02:20:10.920 --> 02:20:15.840 Her name is Jenny Johannica. She was called the hermit 2419 02:20:15.879 --> 02:20:19.239 of Happy Valley. I believe Happy Valley, hermit of Happy 2420 02:20:20.559 --> 02:20:23.719 I'm getting Happy Valley because the almis is confirmed, but anyway, 2421 02:20:25.479 --> 02:20:29.959 Happy Hollow. She's the hermit of Happy hollow, and I 2422 02:20:30.000 --> 02:20:32.159 looked her up, you know, as I'm doing, and you know, 2423 02:20:32.239 --> 02:20:36.200 she's sort of famous in her area. I forget what 2424 02:20:36.399 --> 02:20:39.000 part of the country she was from, somewhere I'm in 2425 02:20:39.040 --> 02:20:43.799 the Indiana maybe maybe I could be wrong, but somewhere 2426 02:20:44.520 --> 02:20:48.440 in the Midwest, and there's a I think, a little 2427 02:20:48.440 --> 02:20:53.319 sign of her, you know, where she lived at this park, 2428 02:20:53.479 --> 02:20:56.360 you know, like you know a little story about her. 2429 02:20:57.360 --> 02:21:00.440 And I realized I may have the only photo of 2430 02:21:00.479 --> 02:21:06.559 her anywhere. I found this photo. It's a Siano type photo, 2431 02:21:06.920 --> 02:21:11.639 someone probably printed at home, and on the back written 2432 02:21:11.719 --> 02:21:17.000 is her name and the name of her dog, because 2433 02:21:17.000 --> 02:21:20.559 they're dog's in the picture, and there's no I can't 2434 02:21:20.559 --> 02:21:22.920 find any other photos of her anywhere, and it sort 2435 02:21:22.920 --> 02:21:24.920 of hit me the responsibility, like I might have the 2436 02:21:24.959 --> 02:21:28.000 only photo of this person that's around these days. Anyway. 2437 02:21:28.000 --> 02:21:30.200 I'm sure there were others before, but I might have 2438 02:21:30.200 --> 02:21:34.200 the only existing photo of her. And I take that 2439 02:21:34.319 --> 02:21:37.520 very seriously, you know, like I feel like, you know, 2440 02:21:37.520 --> 02:21:39.680 there's the idea of second death right you die once 2441 02:21:40.000 --> 02:21:42.360 and then you die again. Once everybody forgets who you were. 2442 02:21:43.120 --> 02:21:45.559 And I feel like, almost in a way, like responsible 2443 02:21:45.559 --> 02:21:50.760 for their stories and their care, and I've become very 2444 02:21:50.760 --> 02:21:53.760 fond of these people writing these stories. And like I said, 2445 02:21:53.760 --> 02:21:55.799 the seriousness of that when I realized, like I might 2446 02:21:55.920 --> 02:21:59.440 have the only existing photo of this woman, that's kind 2447 02:21:59.479 --> 02:22:02.799 of important. Like, I hope someone else cares, you know 2448 02:22:02.840 --> 02:22:05.079 what I mean. I'll leave it to maybe there'll be 2449 02:22:05.120 --> 02:22:08.200 a library or something that will care enough to want 2450 02:22:08.239 --> 02:22:10.680 to preserve this collection, because I would be happy for that. 2451 02:22:10.959 --> 02:22:14.479 I would certainly give it to an institution like that, 2452 02:22:15.319 --> 02:22:18.680 because I think there's something here to preserve these stories 2453 02:22:18.680 --> 02:22:20.440 of these people that could have been forgotten. And in 2454 02:22:20.520 --> 02:22:22.440 a way, they were forgotten in their time. A lot 2455 02:22:22.479 --> 02:22:24.680 of them people didn't care, you know, they went off 2456 02:22:24.719 --> 02:22:27.840 to the woods and they they were either superstitious about 2457 02:22:27.879 --> 02:22:29.879 them or they people barely knew them, or they made 2458 02:22:29.920 --> 02:22:30.920 up stories about them. 2459 02:22:31.479 --> 02:22:31.719 You know. 2460 02:22:31.840 --> 02:22:34.360 So as best as I could, I told I told 2461 02:22:34.440 --> 02:22:37.479 their real stories. And I feel, like I said, kind 2462 02:22:37.479 --> 02:22:39.200 of honored to do so. It's like I just fell 2463 02:22:39.200 --> 02:22:41.319 in love with these people in the process of writing 2464 02:22:41.319 --> 02:22:41.639 the book. 2465 02:22:42.200 --> 02:22:44.719 Maybe your book will serve as a memorial to some 2466 02:22:44.799 --> 02:22:45.479 of these people. 2467 02:22:46.120 --> 02:22:49.719 Yeah, I hope so. And there is an element of there. 2468 02:22:49.719 --> 02:22:51.399 But for the grace of God, go I because, let 2469 02:22:51.399 --> 02:22:53.879 me tell you, especially coming out of the pandemic, there 2470 02:22:53.879 --> 02:22:57.000 were some times where I just thought, I just want 2471 02:22:57.040 --> 02:22:59.600 a cabin, just be by myself. 2472 02:23:01.559 --> 02:23:05.280 I was, I got I was there as well, and 2473 02:23:05.360 --> 02:23:07.440 I was in that headspace as well as ready to 2474 02:23:08.000 --> 02:23:10.639 I was ready to hit Appalachia again, hit the road 2475 02:23:10.639 --> 02:23:14.079 and the head back to Appalachia. And yeah, but you know, 2476 02:23:15.319 --> 02:23:19.959 as people I think have if if you can see 2477 02:23:20.280 --> 02:23:24.079 at this point in the conversation, you do great research. 2478 02:23:24.760 --> 02:23:27.719 I think you throw yourself into your research. You do 2479 02:23:27.879 --> 02:23:31.239 you have an honest approach, and you have research that 2480 02:23:31.399 --> 02:23:33.680 is fueled by genuine curiosity. 2481 02:23:33.799 --> 02:23:37.879 I think I have a absolute love for research. I do. 2482 02:23:37.959 --> 02:23:40.079 I just am connecting the dots I love, like, oh 2483 02:23:40.200 --> 02:23:42.440 look at this and this is connected to that, and yeah, 2484 02:23:42.440 --> 02:23:44.200 I absolutely love it. So thank you very much. 2485 02:23:44.319 --> 02:23:47.360 Yeah, absolutely, And I would urge people to go check 2486 02:23:47.399 --> 02:23:52.360 out your books and your podcast. And you know, one 2487 02:23:52.360 --> 02:23:54.399 of the things I didn't mention also is your music. 2488 02:23:54.520 --> 02:23:58.079 I listened to I've heard some of your songs within 2489 02:23:58.159 --> 02:24:01.799 your episodes, and they're great, some of the best, the 2490 02:24:01.879 --> 02:24:04.840 best folk that's out there. It's great. But yeah, tell 2491 02:24:04.879 --> 02:24:06.040 people where they can find you. 2492 02:24:06.559 --> 02:24:09.360 So the easiest place for everything. Just go to Strange 2493 02:24:09.399 --> 02:24:12.879 familiars dot com and all that contact information there goes 2494 02:24:12.920 --> 02:24:16.360 to me. There should be links to our Etsy shop 2495 02:24:16.440 --> 02:24:18.159 or if you want, like Strange Moliar t shirts or 2496 02:24:18.159 --> 02:24:20.159 my artwork's there. My books are there, but you can 2497 02:24:20.159 --> 02:24:23.600 get my books on Amazon everywhere else. All the links 2498 02:24:23.600 --> 02:24:25.920 are there, my contact information, all that, so it's just 2499 02:24:26.120 --> 02:24:29.760 Strange familiars dot com. 2500 02:24:29.799 --> 02:24:33.040 Great, well, thanks for being here. This has been a 2501 02:24:33.040 --> 02:24:36.360 great conversation and we'll have to do it again sometime. 2502 02:24:36.840 --> 02:24:38.600 Absolutely, thanks for having. 2503 02:24:38.399 --> 02:24:43.719 Me as always, break the mold, conquer the room, and 2504 02:24:43.799 --> 02:25:02.600 thanks for listening. 2505 02:25:03.120 --> 02:25:22.639 Controlling Shops station connection