WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.439 Imagine the place where you can escape for a day, 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:08.800 get immerged in a world of rooms, inspiration and expertise, 3 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:14.480 where you can lay in luxury, accommodation and kids cam 4 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:20.320 fees from ninety five sets. Tickets are free to everyone 5 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:25.559 and include all the attractions you've just imagined. A day 6 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:30.519 out at Ikia Theikia the Wonderful. Every day you're. 7 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:32.960 On the bus an hour from home and bumper to 8 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.159 bumper traffic creeping forward a few inches at a time, 9 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:39.600 someone's kids are screaming, and suddenly. 10 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:40.200 Your back is too. 11 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.759 Luckily, Panadal extra film coated tablets are boosted by caffeine 12 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:47.640 and they get to work in as little as ten 13 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:52.039 minutes for powerful relief. That's more than just paracetamol. That's 14 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:56.399 one for Panadal speed based on absorption data contains paracetamol. 15 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:57.840 Always read the label or leaflet. 16 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:02.719 Oh hey, it's that lady in the hotel lobby who 17 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.159 just took an apple from the bowl of decorative fruit 18 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:08.359 and feels only partly guilty about it. Ali Ward back 19 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:12.400 with another episode of ologies Oh, Love Oh, Who doesn't 20 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.439 Love Love Oh? This episode is coming out a few 21 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.280 days before Valentine's Day. Love is in the air. It's 22 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.920 on the shelves at Walgreens. Soon it will be in 23 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.599 the discount aisle at Walgreens. But it will still be 24 00:01:25.640 --> 00:01:28.120 in our hearts and on our minds until probably the 25 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:32.079 day we're dead and return to the earth as scattered molecules, 26 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.599 ready to be a frog that loves another frog. But 27 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.120 frogs don't get married, and some people do, so let's 28 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.239 learn about it. But first little business. So thank you, 29 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.959 as always to the Ologies patrons. I am your grateful, 30 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:46.959 humble servant. This podcast would not exist with other folks 31 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.239 on patreon dot com slash ologies A dollar a month 32 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:53.599 gets you in that club. Thanks to everyone for sporting 33 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.760 Ologies merch from ologiesmerch dot com. I've said it before. 34 00:01:57.799 --> 00:01:59.719 I hope you wear an Ologies shirt or pin or 35 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.200 hat and you find your soulmate and then I officiate 36 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:03.840 your wedding and I eat free cake. 37 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:04.599 Okay. 38 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:08.000 Thanks to everyone who rates the show and hit subscribe 39 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:11.080 bonus points for leaving a review for me to creepily 40 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.199 lurk and read on the show, such as this week's 41 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:18.439 Let's Do It. Ariel Lean says this podcast is one 42 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.360 hundred percent worth writing my first ever review. I've gotten 43 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:23.319 sucked into topics. I never thought I would be interested 44 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:26.280 in I'm looking at you postcards. They say. The episodes 45 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:29.080 on snology inspired me to take a leap of faith 46 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:31.879 and eliminate two of the three sleepy medications I had 47 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:34.520 been taking for years. They say, I feel better than ever. 48 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:37.120 So thanks Ali for putting your heart and soul and 49 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.000 a few brock crystals into bringing all of us so 50 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:44.639 much joy. So thank you, Ariel. Everyone else consult a 51 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:48.719 doctor before changing medications. Please don't sue me. Yay, okay? 52 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:53.039 So matrimoniology is it a word? Come on, dad word? 53 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.280 Don't go pull on legs here? Hot? Damn? Is it ever? 54 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.639 Kind of okay? First off, the term matrim comes from 55 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:03.840 the Latin for mother, as in to make a mother 56 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:08.759 out of someone gross, But now matrimony is used as 57 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:13.479 jack catchall for marriage stuff and a now deceased psychologist 58 00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:17.439 from the Czech Republic coined the term matrimoniology, wrote several 59 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.759 books on marriage and relationship psychology, so it exists in literature, 60 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.639 I say it accounts. So I enlisted the help of 61 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:27.439 new intern Harrikim. They helped me track down one of 62 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.719 the foremost American experts in the field who happens to 63 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.759 teach not in Prague but in La So I just 64 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.280 shimmied over to UCLA on a sunny morning and I 65 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.400 set up a few mics. I asked this ologist questions 66 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:45.960 that had both adorable and also sometimes very uncomfortable answers, 67 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:50.439 just like a relationship, adorable, sometimes uncomfortable. So he is 68 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.280 a professor of social psychology and a researcher at UCLA's 69 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.120 marriage lab. There's a marriage lab, and he's a co 70 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:02.560 author of the textbook Intimate Relationship, and has written innumerable 71 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:05.280 papers on the topic, many of which have really just 72 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.599 juicy as health titles such as quote to know you 73 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.919 is to love you, the importance of global adoration and 74 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:17.480 specific understanding for close relationships, and how stress hinders adaptive 75 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.480 processes in marriage. Oh this is the good stuff. Okay. 76 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.839 So we sat down to discuss romantic intimacy, how marriage 77 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:29.480 differs from non married relationships, what to do if your 78 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.560 partnership is going through a little bit of a rough batch, 79 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:38.680 why divorces happen, how movies could save your relation, strategies 80 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.800 for popping the question, the darker historical side of marriage. 81 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.720 And then maybe per usual, I have a life changing epiphany. 82 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.879 No spoilers, So sit back, commit to this amazing and 83 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.920 wild ride with someone who, just technically speaking, in some 84 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:00.240 parts of the world, would be considered a matrimoniologist, Doctor Ben, 85 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.519 you are sort of a matrimoniologist. 86 00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:25.160 I mean technically, I'm a psychologist, yeah, And if you 87 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:28.600 want to get more specific, I'm a social psychologist. So 88 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.879 there's lots of different kinds of psychology at universities, and 89 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:36.000 social psychology is a study of how human beings, individual 90 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:39.079 human beings are affected by the imagined or real presence 91 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.519 of other human beings, which is to say, is a 92 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:42.639 study of the human condition. 93 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.040 That sounds so poetic, but it's true. 94 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:48.360 We are the ones who study scientifically what it means 95 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:50.959 to be a human being on the planet Earth, within 96 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.839 social psychology, in all these different ways that human beings interact. 97 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.160 My own interest has always been in intimacy and how 98 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:04.839 people develop and maintain intimate connections, specifically romantic connections, and 99 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.439 I have studied that in the context of marriage, but 100 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.800 my interest is broader than just marriage. Marriage is a 101 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:15.639 very convenient place to study adult intimacy because it's where 102 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.160 a lot of adults will end up practicing their adult 103 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.639 intimacy for large portions of their lives. So I've studied 104 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:25.720 marriage my whole life or my whole professional life for 105 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:28.680 the last twenty five years. But for me, marriage is 106 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:33.160 a case, a specific case of a broader interest in intimacy, 107 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:39.680 in how people experience love and what happens to that 108 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:41.360 experience over time. 109 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.639 So quick background on Ben. He grew up in la 110 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.480 but he got his bachelor's in psychology from just this 111 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:52.079 little college called friggin Harvard, then came back to California 112 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.319 to get his PhD in social psychology from UCLA, where 113 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.480 he's now, of course, a professor who studies intimate relationships. 114 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:02.120 But how did he know that this field was the 115 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.800 one and why of all the different facets of social psychology? 116 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:06.800 Why intimacy? 117 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:12.120 Honestly, because that's what I was naturally thinking about when 118 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:14.160 I when it came time to think what am I 119 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.639 going to study. What actually happened is that I got 120 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.720 to graduate school in nineteen ninety and I actually went 121 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:25.120 to graduate school here at UCLA, where I ended up 122 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.839 many years later on the faculty. And I didn't know 123 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:30.240 what I wanted to say. I knew I loved this 124 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.319 idea of social psychology. I knew that the ways that 125 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.800 human beings interact was fascinating and puzzling and compelling for me, 126 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:39.680 but I didn't know what I was going to really study, 127 00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:44.399 and I kind of drifted. And a very kind faculty 128 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:49.199 member noticed that I was drifting. Her name was Anne Peplow. 129 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.959 She's still around although she's retired. And Peplow called me 130 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.959 into her office and said, hey, how's your first year 131 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.560 of grad school going, which she didn't have any obligation 132 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.000 to do, didn't need to do that, but she was 133 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.759 just very kind and she said, I said, I no, no, 134 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.199 I'm studying different things. And she said, well are you studying? 135 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.040 What do you want to study? What was it that 136 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:12.360 you actually came here to study? So I don't know. Ah, 137 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:14.000 she goes, why don't you go think about it for 138 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:14.399 a while? 139 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:17.319 And how could she tell you that you were drifting? 140 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:22.240 I don't know, I think because I don't know why 141 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.199 she took an interest. It was one of the most 142 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.360 generous things anyone's ever done for me, though. 143 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.000 And so what did you do when you went and 144 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:30.439 thought about it? Were you dating someone at the time, 145 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:32.240 are you single? Were you struggling in that area. 146 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:38.600 It's a good question. I had just started dating someone 147 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:40.840 that I had had a long term crush on in college. 148 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:41.759 Ooh nice. 149 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:45.360 After college we had gotten together, and so I was 150 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.399 thinking about intimacy. I was saying, how do these how 151 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:50.200 do we fall in love with people out of a 152 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:51.759 relationship change? How to someone that you know for a 153 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:55.759 long time suddenly become your partner? How do two people 154 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:00.240 who are strangers to each other go from strangers to 155 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:01.159 needing each other? 156 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:01.720 Right? 157 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.480 Just see that seems like a miraculous It is. It 158 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:06.639 is a miracle. It is right. There's a person on 159 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:08.759 the If you're a single person right now, somewhere on 160 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:13.600 the planet, there's someone and probably close by, who some 161 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:15.480 years from now you'll say, oh my god, that person 162 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.440 touched me. That person is so important to me. I 163 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:20.840 couldn't live without that person. And yet now I have 164 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.120 no idea who that person I know. That's insane. 165 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:25.600 I have a friend named Kathy who she was at 166 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.480 a birthday party. Her future husband was there. They never 167 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:31.080 even talked. They met online. A year later they're at 168 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.759 the same birthday party. So, yes, my friends Kathy and Sandon, 169 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.000 they're in the same photos of this birthday party. This 170 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.080 was a year before they met and started dating via 171 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.600 Okay Cupid. So now they're married, they have a rescue poodle. 172 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:47.320 Life is wild, is all I'm saying. Just go talk 173 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:51.480 to everyone at every party. Maybe you can smell them. 174 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:53.600 See what that does for you. I don't know. I'm 175 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.480 not a doctor. Also, on my way to this interview, 176 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:00.080 I took a lift because UCLA Parking is just a 177 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.559 dystopian healscape. You can see the microbiology episode for more 178 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:05.919 on that. And I was talking to the driver about 179 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:07.480 this episode on the way to record it, and I 180 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:10.679 promised him that I would ask his question right away 181 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:14.559 and not chicken out. So, boy, howdy did I What 182 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.559 about you? Now? My lift driver wanted me to ask, Nicholas, 183 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:19.799 are you married? You have a wedding ring on how 184 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:21.320 many times have you been married? Me? 185 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:23.120 Yeah, I am married. 186 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:23.600 Okay. 187 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.879 I have been divorced. I was divorced. 188 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:27.240 Okay. 189 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.000 I was married to my first wife and we got 190 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.799 divorced after I had been studying marriage for a long time, 191 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.679 like many many years, and then I married again, okay, 192 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:41.080 and I'm very happily married. 193 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.240 Okay. So you've experienced literally all sides of yes, I 194 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:46.960 have been nice. 195 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:51.039 I have been a participant in the whole phenomenon. And 196 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.360 people ask me, of course, they say, so, you study marriage. 197 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:59.879 You literally have written a book on intimacy. So how 198 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:04.360 is it that you got divorced? And my response to that, 199 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.399 I have a ready one, is oh, I understand why 200 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.120 I got divorced. 201 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.360 Yeah. 202 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:12.000 And one of the things that I've studied, one of 203 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.759 the things I've studied a long time is that not 204 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:19.960 everything about your relationship, our relationships are controllable m M. 205 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.440 That things happen in relationships that are beyond your control. 206 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.159 And the idea that if you just work hard enough 207 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.519 you can make any relationship work is not true. 208 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:31.000 Not true. 209 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:31.919 I don't believe that's true. 210 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.279 And you can say that from a personal and from 211 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:35.399 a scientific perspective. 212 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.200 Yes, it turns out I could say it for I 213 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.399 was saying it for a long time from a scientific perspective, 214 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.159 and then I experienced it. 215 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.440 That is great as a scientist that you have experienced 216 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.080 all those facets. I'm sure that it is not easy 217 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.440 as a person, but as an actual kind of objective 218 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:55.840 of observer to other people's behavior, that must be very helpful. 219 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.240 I would have preferred not to experience. Okay, if I 220 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.519 could have chose, and I would have preferred very strongly 221 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:02.960 not to experience that. 222 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.559 But and now, what about when you were a graduate 223 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.159 student you started turning your eye toward intimacy and then 224 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:13.840 at what point did the marriage lab here at UCLA 225 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:15.679 exist or how did you get involved? 226 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:21.679 Well, it's an interesting it's fortuitous. It's luck. My career 227 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:28.360 is a cascade of lucky breaks that I didn't do 228 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:30.840 much to create or that I just fell into, and 229 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:34.159 I am grateful for every day. I'm a big believer 230 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.679 in luck and circumstance, and as my scholarly interest in 231 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.480 the effect of luck and circumstance on marriage, and I've 232 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.000 definitely experienced that. So what happened is I came back 233 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:49.000 to end Peplow after a week or so and I said, 234 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:51.879 if I could be paid to think of something that 235 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:53.919 I already think about, that'd be pretty great. If if 236 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:57.279 my whole life, if my job could be to ponder 237 00:12:57.320 --> 00:13:01.799 systematically and professionally something that I would all ponder, that'd 238 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.000 be awesome. And what I find myself thinking about all 239 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:06.519 the time that I don't have to be encouraged to 240 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:10.559 think about that I already think about is love? How 241 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:12.159 do people fall in love? How do people fall out 242 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:16.240 of love? And that latter question is really the one 243 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.879 that really puzzles me, because nobody wants to fall out 244 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:23.919 of love, so of course everyone wants to find love. 245 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:28.159 No mystery there. I am someone who is looking for love, 246 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:34.519 real love. The mystery is that once two people find that, 247 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.879 how is it so fragile? That's the mystery, because two 248 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.120 people who fall in love experience this is amazing, this 249 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:46.399 is great. Do you want to keep feeling this way? 250 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.600 I do. Let's both do that. And if you get married, 251 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.559 for example, you don't just want that, you actually promise 252 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:56.399 to do that, and you don't promise it privately, You 253 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.039 promise it publicly. 254 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.480 In front of everyone, in front of everybody. Free one 255 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:02.360 you've ever met that means anything to you. 256 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:07.360 Is now listening to you say this is it? Count 257 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.159 me out of the dating market. I'm gonna be with 258 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:12.039 this person here forever. 259 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:17.720 Nowage marriage is what wins us to deva. 260 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.360 It would be a terrible idea to change your mind. 261 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.879 It'd be costly, financially, cousy, emotionally costly, and it's embarrassing. 262 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.879 You're wearing the most expensive pants you have ever. 263 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.480 Worn, very expensive pants, and people are giving you monogram 264 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:33.799 stuff you can't return it. 265 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:34.360 I know. 266 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:41.039 So, then what happens from a neurological perspective in terms 267 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.279 of like do our dopamine levels go crazy and then 268 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.000 they weigh naturally? How do you figure that out? 269 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.399 You know, my interest is not in the neurological level. 270 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.519 There are people who study the neurological level and they're saying, 271 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.639 and you know, they're saying, here's what goes on rain 272 00:14:55.720 --> 00:15:00.639 regions activate. I'm interested in the phenomenological level of experience. 273 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:06.840 So I'm interested in how do people experience a change 274 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:10.399 that they don't want that happens anyway. 275 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.759 In case you're like, shoot, what is the brain cocktail 276 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.919 that's making me feel like a walking hard eyed emoji 277 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.200 slash egg plant emoji slash peach emoji slash very creepy 278 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:24.039 newish drooling face emoji which they shouldn't have greenlit. Why 279 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:27.120 do they make that one? It's so gross? Well, neurobiologists 280 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:32.200 at the Loyola Sexual Wellness Clinic say that dopamine, adrenaline, 281 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.759 and norapenephrin increase when two people get really smitten with 282 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.720 each other, and then our body Dopamine makes you feel euphoric, 283 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.960 kind of like Tom Cruise jumping on a couch, while 284 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:48.360 adrenaline and norapenephrin make your heart literally go pitter pat faster, 285 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.399 and they focus your attention on this crush you have. 286 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:57.279 So evidently love lowers your serotonin levels, which these researchers 287 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:01.399 say is common in people with obsessed of compulsive disorders, 288 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:05.759 which tracks if you've ever refreshed someone's Instagram like you're 289 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.840 being paid to monitor them and said like why why 290 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.360 why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? 291 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.240 Why am I doing this? Stop doing this? So Doctor 292 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:17.399 Bencarney also says that minds are very hard to change, 293 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.799 and we've known this for like all of time, but 294 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:25.480 in the nineteen fifties a psychologist named Leon Festinger studied 295 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:30.240 this and dubbed it cognitive dissonance, which is that excruciating 296 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:35.120 discomfort when you're holding two very conflicting thoughts. So Festinger 297 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:39.320 and colleagues studied a cult that was started by a 298 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:44.519 Midwestern housewife come doomsday prophet who kept promising all of 299 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.080 her followers that spacemen were coming very soon any minute 300 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.879 to take them all away, and her followers kept believing 301 00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:54.159 in her, even though like where are these spacemen? She 302 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:57.879 was like, they're stuck in like so much space traffic. Anyway, 303 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.679 this woman's name was Dorothy Martin, and I really wish 304 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.120 that for branding purposes she just popped an extra a 305 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.640 in that name just went for Dorothy Marsham. Can you 306 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.480 imagine would have been so sick? Anyway, People never tend 307 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.079 to change their minds, except anything about I guess love. 308 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.240 About people's love relationships or let's say, their marriages, people 309 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.000 do change. 310 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.240 Their mind about their partner. 311 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:21.559 About their partner, I said, I was going to love 312 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.640 you forever. I thought I was going to love you forever. 313 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.960 I thought this is the best relationship ever. I'm totally 314 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.079 gonna never change. And then people do, even though it's costly, 315 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:31.920 even though they don't want to, even though it's embarrassing. 316 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.240 That's a real mystery, and people do change their minds 317 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.359 all the time about their love relationships. I thought you 318 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.759 were the one. I thought you were my soulmates. Surprise, surprise, 319 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:43.720 I must have a different soulmate because of you, Ain't it. 320 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.160 Do you even think, as a social psychologist that soulmates 321 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.839 exist or is that a convenient thing that we apply 322 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:51.759 to one person so that we don't think about the 323 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.200 soulmate that might be on the next train car, even 324 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:54.839 though we're married. 325 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:59.000 I do not believe in that their soulmates. I believe 326 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.680 that relationships are things that people are processes that people 327 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.279 work at, and people can work hard to have a 328 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.920 good relationship with a variety of different people, and those 329 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.559 relationships will be different. So the good relationship you have 330 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.839 with some person is different than the good relationship you 331 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.920 might have with another person. Okay, there's some research on 332 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.680 what is it? What are the impact on what's the 333 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.920 impact on a relationship of thinking about soulmates? Of believing 334 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:26.599 in soulmates? 335 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:28.279 And it's not that great. 336 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:33.000 For example, if you really believe in soulmates and then 337 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:34.960 you and your partner, who you think is your soulmate 338 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:38.559 are having a fight, it might lead you to say, uh, oh, 339 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:40.200 maybe you're not my soulmate. 340 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:47.279 Yeah, and now what was your what was your PhD work? 341 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.160 You're it toward? What was your dissertation about? 342 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.519 So after I went back to enn Peplau and said, 343 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.519 I think I want to study you love relationships, she said, oh, 344 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.960 That's an interesting coincidence because there's this guy that was 345 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:07.440 just hired here at UCLA named Thomas Bradbury. Young guy 346 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:12.880 just was his first job, and he actually studies marriages. 347 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.079 Tom Bradbury was studying newlyweds in the community and then 348 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:20.519 following him over time to see in the first few years, 349 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.039 who stayed nearly was are pretty happy, which one of 350 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.839 them stay happy, which ones get less happy, which ones 351 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:31.200 get divorced? And he was also videotaping them, so it 352 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.759 wasn't just asking them questions, he was videotaping them and 353 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.640 coding what he saw in the videotapes. 354 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:36.480 Oh. 355 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.799 I met him and said, hey, can I work with you? 356 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:44.680 And he said sure. And that was twenty six years ago. 357 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:46.839 And we're still working together because he's still in the 358 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.599 faculty here, and we write books together, and we get 359 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:51.680 grants together, and we are still working together. 360 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.599 What's the secret to that healthy partnership? 361 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:58.759 G It is probably the longest successful adult relationship I've had. 362 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.680 And the secret is I think that I lucked out 363 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:07.799 that Tom S. Bradbury happens to be a fantastic person. 364 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.039 Well, I guess that's part of selection. 365 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.079 It's totally selection. Yes, Actually, that's a very good point 366 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:18.279 that one of the things that's coming out from the 367 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.200 work that we've been doing the last few years is 368 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:24.000 it really matters who you choose, because where your relationship 369 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.119 begins says a lot about where it's going to go. 370 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.960 If I do think that some people are less fortunate, 371 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.119 and that the person that you meet when you're feeling 372 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.039 ready to get married and the person you're like, oh, 373 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.480 wait a minute, I'm ready to get married and you're 374 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.920 here and available, and we get along well enough, and 375 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:43.839 I think a lot of people get married that way, 376 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.440 and you want to be lucky. 377 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.480 So so the selection of partners sometimes is based on 378 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:54.559 opportunity and not compatibility. 379 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.720 So the only people you can possibly judge your compatibility 380 00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:59.680 with are the people that you meet, the people you 381 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:00.839 have the opportunity to meet. 382 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:06.000 So opportunity comes first and selection and compatibility. 383 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.640 And I actually think that that we've as a culture 384 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:17.160 emphasized selection as if it's a much more active process 385 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:17.799 than it is. 386 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.720 What is happening then when someone picks a partner, what 387 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.559 is really going on socially emotionally? What is falling in love? 388 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:28.759 What is that process? 389 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.480 All right, let's talk about that because there's a lot 390 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:33.720 of do's get into that, there's a lot of I 391 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.680 think there's a lot of confusion about that process, even 392 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:41.640 though people experience it. If you believe, for example, what 393 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:47.400 dating sites tell you or what matching sites tell you, 394 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:53.759 and then then you'd think that finding a partner is 395 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.759 about measuring somebody and measuring their sort of qualities and 396 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.519 finding someone whose qualities compatible with your own qualities. 397 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.400 Okay, quick aside. I started wondering what, let's not say 398 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.000 the weirdest or creepiest dating sites are, let's just say 399 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.160 the most niche. I mean, sure, you've got your data 400 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:16.039 golfer dot com. There's Glutenfree Singles dot com. But what 401 00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.960