Speaker 1: I made a series pay Sunny Sun on I had vision.
Speaker 2: It's nice. Hey everybody, it's for crying out loud. It's
Friday Edition.
Speaker 3: Uh, It's me Stephanie, and I'm here with Tamra Mellow.
She stayed the week. I'm so excited. We've just been
sleeping here every night.
Speaker 1: It's been great. Now.
Speaker 3: The Tuesday episode was more on the serious side because
we talked about college stuff and then we talked a
lot about Penelope. But I and we've had Tamra on before,
which we did get into her acting career. But you know,
like I love hearing about this stuff, and she's been
on a lot of big shows. You started popular, Was
it most popular? Your very first show?
Speaker 4: No, The first series I ever did was a show
called Nothing Sacred right was I think?
Speaker 2: God?
Speaker 1: So long ago, like.
Speaker 4: Ninety seven, I think, And it was. It was a
show about the Catholic Church, and it.
Speaker 1: Was it was. It was a cool show. It was, really,
it wasn't it.
Speaker 4: It was set in a Catholic church and so there
were a lot of there were just a lot of interesting,
cool storylines. But the show wasn't doing that well at
the end of its first sort of like eighteen episodes
or something, and so for the for the back nine,
which is like the final nine episodes, they decided it
would be a good idea to bring in like a
sexy love interest for the.
Speaker 2: Trees for the main proson.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they were like, you know, the network said this,
like there needs to be some sexual tension. So they
brought Jennifer Beals in be the sexy love interest. Yeah,
we didn't get a season.
Speaker 2: To pick up.
Speaker 1: What weird show Man.
Speaker 4: They were like priests that would work on the show,
Like the pilot was written by a priest, and so
they would consult on the show and like I remember,
like you know, like thinking of them. They're like magicians
and so like one day I was like talking to
one of the priests and there was like a crate
of water and I was like, can you turn that
into holy water? And he was like, you can turn
it into holy water, you just have to like say
a blessing over it.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2: Cool, And how old were you when you were doing
nothing sacred?
Speaker 4: I was twenty three, oh a baby, yeah, but I
was playing at fifteen year old?
Speaker 2: Oh really? Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I played a character who gets pregnant and so
you can imagine that this is a big problem in
a Catholic church. And it was really interesting because they
my character was going to have an abortion, and the
people who wrote the show, the priest, insisted on turning
the script over to the archdiocese every week so the
Catholic archdiocese could like weigh in and make notes, which
is very, very strange for a network television show. And
so they sent the abortion episode back with no notes.
Speaker 1: They were like, it's great, and we were all shocked
about that. So, you know, we shot the abortion episode.
Speaker 4: And then for the next week, the archdiocese then went, well,
we understand the characters had the abortion, so now you
have to excommunicate her.
Speaker 1: She is equally bizarre.
Speaker 4: And it was like it was like they're like kind
of gotcha moment, Like you thought you were going to
sneak this bias. So anyway, it was very strange to
be on a television show that was like fully sort
of restricted by the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3: When you got that job, because I know you'd done
like some big commercials before that, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd done some commercials and I didn't get stars.
I'd done a bunch of guest stars on TV shows
and stuff.
Speaker 3: But you must have been so excited when you got
your furt you were like, oh my god, I'm on
a series.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was super super excited.
Speaker 4: And for that show, it was very nice because I
was auditioning to be a guest star on it, and
then they decided to make me a series regular, which
was really really cool. And I remember like I was
living in an apartment and it was like six hundred
and seventy five dollars a month for like a beautiful
one bedroom and I was like going to make the
move to like an eight hundred and twenty five dollars
a month one bedroom apartment and a slightly nicer building.
And I remember being like, so like should I do it?
Can I afford it? And like my manager was like,
you're on a television show, Like you can afford it.
But it was just like the idea of making like
television money was so foreign to me.
Speaker 1: Like it was it, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: It was really exciting and really like it was a
good way to like get my chops because I was
working with a lot of like super talented older actors.
Speaker 3: I think I've asked you this, I don't know if
I asked you this when you were on this show.
I know I've asked you this in person. That seems weird, irl,
But when you got when you got the job, was there,
did you have that thing of like, oh my god,
I'm going to be super famous, like yeah, yeah, I'm
going to be Matt Perry, like totally to change around here.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people are going to be like Taara.
Speaker 4: I mean I thought that when I had my first
guest star girl. I think my first guest star was
on like Boy Meets World, and I was like, here
we go, Here we go. That didn't happen. But I
remember one time I was at Kmart when Kmart still existed,
and it was it was while I was on Nothing
Sacred and there were some There was an Orthodox Jewish
family in front of me in line, and they were
like kind of looking at me, kind of whispering, and
our show was on on Friday night and they said.
Speaker 1: Are you on that show Nothing Sacred?
Speaker 4: And I said yeah, and they were like, well, we
were visiting somebody in the hospital last night and it
came on, and you know, we couldn't turn off the
television ourselves because it was Shabbat, so we had to
watch it, and I.
Speaker 1: Was like, oh, cool, what do you think?
Speaker 4: And they like paused for a moment and then they said,
why are you shopping at kmart?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 4: Yeah, to which I didn't really have much of an
answer other than like.
Speaker 2: So they were noncommittal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they wouldn't say they liked it, but I think
they liked it a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's so funny.
Speaker 3: So okay, so the show starts airing and we're like,
how long before you were like, Oh, my life didn't
change that drastically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean I think my life actually changed like a
little bit, because you know, I started like getting to
be in magazines and because of like the abortion storyline.
My character was actually the first person on network television,
the first character to have an abortion, and so it
was kind of a big deal. And so I was
getting interviewed a lot for like Access Hollywood and like
and stuff. So I mean, for me, that was all
I needed. I didn't have to be Matthew Perry. Like
I was happy that somebody wanted to shoot Bee Roll
be walking my dog in front of my eight hundred
dollars apartment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll never get used to shooting bee role.
Speaker 1: It's so weird.
Speaker 3: This is a thing where for anybody who's not like
in this business where they send a crew to like
follow you around and they want you to just like
just be normal.
Speaker 2: We just want to shoot like your normal.
Speaker 3: Life and you're like, well, it's not really natural to
like walk towards a camera. I've done that with walking
the dog, right, we just want to shoot you walking
your dog for some segment about my sobriety.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're always walking our dogs, right yeah, yeah, in
full hair and makeup.
Speaker 3: Because they can't do it like at the grocery store. Yeah,
it has to be like just stuff you would do
around your house.
Speaker 2: It's like, you don't that's not really.
Speaker 1: It's not real. Yeah, it's not real.
Speaker 3: Especially when they want me to be as a writer.
We want me to be right, So it's like sitting
in front of me.
Speaker 1: So you're like Harry on Sex and the City.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they love that shit. Yeah yeah. Okay, So that.
Speaker 3: Show ends and then were you like, oh no, I'm
out of work or did you go right into the
next thing.
Speaker 1: I think that after that show.
Speaker 2: There was building offers.
Speaker 4: Well I was after that show there came a time
in Hollywood where like young actors were really in demand,
like like the teen drama was having like sort of
a resurgence. And so then I did this movie called
She's All That, which was sort of like the ultimate
like teen movie, and it was for Meer Max Weinstein's company,
and it was only like their second or third movie,
like it wasn't like they hadn't done a lot yet.
So it was like it was super super fun. It
was all these young actors. We had the best time.
We were shooting like in Malibu and in the Palisades,
and it was super fun. And then sometimes Harvey Weinstein
would come to set and it got real real weird,
like because everyone was afraid of him.
Speaker 1: Even then, people.
Speaker 4: Were so afraid of him, and we'd all have to
like be on our best behavior.
Speaker 1: And there was one time when we had did we
talk about this before?
Speaker 4: I can't remember anyway, So there was one time when
we all went they they like sent us all to
go to the premiere of like Studio fifty four some
other teen kind of movie, and so we all went.
And then I was at this party and Weinstein came
up to me and said, I.
Speaker 1: Just want to tell you.
Speaker 4: You're doing a great job in the film, doing really
good work in the film. And I was like, oh,
thank you, thinking he has me mixed up with somebody else, clearly,
like there's no way he knows who I am. And
he was like, we're in the back room. If you
want to come, there's a VIP room back there. We're
gonna like smoke some cigars, drink some whiskey. And I
was like I felt trapped, Like I probably looked like
a deer in headlights. And another actor came up and
like distracted him with like asking him something, and I like.
Speaker 1: Slowly drifted away.
Speaker 4: I mean this was before anybody knew anything about like
what a monster he was. But there was just something
where I was like, this doesn't feel good, this feels weird.
Speaker 2: There was a vibe.
Speaker 1: There was a vibe, and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I avoided I avoided getting weinsteined.
Speaker 2: So you do that movie and that was a big movie, right,
was it big? Right away? Yeah? It was classic, it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a pretty big movie.
Speaker 4: I think that like in a lot of ways, it
like it was the first one of all those like
kind of teen movies that came after it. So so yeah,
that was super, super fun, and then I did I
did Popular right after.
Speaker 2: That, So so you booked another series.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did a series called Popular.
Speaker 2: It was Ryan Murphy.
Speaker 4: That was Ryan Murphy's first series and how what was that? Like,
we did a couple of seasons of that. It's you know,
it's very strange, like and I think probably there are
a lot of people who can attest to this that
like working on a Ryan Murphy's show is like the
worst parts of high school. You know, there's a vibe
that he puts out there. And I'm saying this like
he and I were very very good friends for a
long time, but it's he kind of pits people against
each other and it's super unhealthy.
Speaker 2: It's super It's a little like our Patreon this week.
Speaker 4: It's it is it is, And it's like, you know,
me with my family, I'm like already like hackles up,
like what's gonna happen? But yeah, there was a lot
of like like stupid petty high school drama happening on
the set of our high school drama. Like everybody always
like felt like am I gonna get fired?
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't It wasn't great.
Speaker 4: And that being said, I made a lot of great friends,
and for the most part, it was a really really
lovely experience.
Speaker 3: And that was the show that did make you kind
of famous, right, Like you said, you got recognized a lot. Yeah,
I mean I think people still recognize you from that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Maybe it It's a very strange thing for somebody
with anxiety to like go to a shopping mall and
get like surrounded by like tween girls and have to
sort of like show up for them and do the
thing that you're supposed to do, which is sign autographs
and take pictures, and like that's the kind of thing
that you think before you have any success as an actor.
You're like, that's going to be so cool when someone
asks me for my autograph. And for me, it was
so anxiety producing that it was it was hard for me,
and I would every time I would go out, I
would go out with like a baseball cap and like
big sunglasses, like I'm fucking justin Bieber. Like I think
there was not that degree of fame, but it would
just it would take one like thirteen year old girl
to recognize me to like start off a series of events.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so popular that was like a couple of years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it did two full seasons of that back
in the day when like a season was like twenty
two to twenty four episodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yea, so we did.
Speaker 4: A lot of episodes of that, and that was great.
I mean, you know, it's it's fun being on TV,
and it's fun getting to travel and like do cool
stuff that you wouldn't get to do otherwise. And then yeah,
after that, I got hired to do another series called
Baby Bob, which was a show about a talking baby
and it was with Jolie Fisher and Holland Taylor, Elliott Gould.
Speaker 1: There were like some very very good actors on this,
like stupid fucking show.
Speaker 4: But before Elliott Gould was there, Carl Reiner was in it,
and it was it was like working with Hollywood Royalty.
And he quit because the ship was so ridiculous. And yeah,
and then they probably cooled in. But Jolie Fisher did
not like me, and I don't know why. I don't
know what I did to her, but she did not
like me. She was not nice to me, and she
would complain about my character, which was so weird, like
she'd be like the fuck well exactly, she'd be like, well,
I don't think it's realistic that da da da da dad,
And it's like, well, I don't think it's realistic that
your baby talks like a forty year old man, like
where we're not dealing in reality, and you know, it's
just that annoying thing that.
Speaker 1: Actors do where they're like, my character wouldn't say.
Speaker 4: That, oh, which that reminds me of one time Ryan
Murphy set out a memorandum saying that people were no
longer allowed to say my character wouldn't say that. Oh God,
that's kind of funny, but he was totally serious about
it anyway. So Jolly Fisher didn't like me and she
wasn't nice to me, and I just remember were like
at one point, the girl who was the other girl
who was up for the role showed up on set one.
Speaker 2: Day, who was up for your role?
Speaker 4: Yeah huh, and like like came to my trailer and
was like I just wanted to say hi, and I
was like, what are you doing here? And she goes, oh,
they just thought maybe they would bring me in for
a guest star, so they kind of wanted me to
see how things are going. And I'm like, that is
such bullshit that doesn't exist, it doesn't happen. Ten minutes later,
my agent calls and I went, I'm fired, right, and he.
Speaker 1: Went, yeah, you're fired.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they say it happens to everybody once and
I was like, is this my one time?
Speaker 1: And he's like, I hope so.
Speaker 4: But you can pack up your things like there's nothing
more humiliating, Like nothing had prepared me for getting fired
from a television series.
Speaker 2: Do you think it was because of Julie Richardson?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I do.
Speaker 4: And I had just bought my house. I had just
bought my house, and I was like, I just went,
they still have to pay me, right, And he went, yeah,
they still have to pay you.
Speaker 3: So was it one of those things like a soap
opera where they just replaced your character with a different
person and just forward.
Speaker 4: No, because we were shooting six episodes and basically they
had already shot the pilot for this and it got
picked up, but then they wanted to replace most of
the cast, and so we had to reshoot the pilot.
But we knew we were shooting six other episodes. So
I got fired during that reshoot of the pilot. Okay,
And then so you were never on that show.
Speaker 1: No, I was never.
Speaker 4: It never saw the light of day with my face,
and I don't think it lasted more than the six episodes, right,
but oh boy, that was humiliating.
Speaker 2: Was that the last time you were ever fired? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean fired a lot? Really?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean I've gotten fired from restaurant jobs.
But like as an actor, I only got fired one time.
What have you even fired from?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Actually though, yeah, I got fired from this job where
I was a writer on a thing that was recreating
taking stuff from old Three Stooges movies and making interstitials and.
Speaker 2: I hate the Three Staies too.
Speaker 3: Really needed a job, so I had to pretend like
I like the Three Stooges. But it was a torturous job,
and I made the mistake of complaining about things like
we need snacks in the office and we need magazines.
Speaker 2: So this was before the internet.
Speaker 3: Uh huh, So we had nothing. They wanted us to
just sit in a room. These people did not understand
how this kind of television is. You can't get just
ideas out of your brain.
Speaker 1: What were they interstitials for?
Speaker 2: So they were.
Speaker 3: Taking like it was I don't I don't remember it. Oh,
like it was they were showing three Stooges movies, okay,
and then they wanted to do like little sketches taking
footage from three Stooges movies. But but it would be
like I'm trying to think of an example of it.
It would be like a quick, like sixty second sketch
where you'd go exercise with mo oh, take stuff from
movies that would almost look like he was doing an
exerci umaruantine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so.
Speaker 3: You'd have to think of the bit and then you'd
have to screen all this footage to go like to
find moments where you could be like, oh, this could
be like him doing a handstand, or.
Speaker 2: Like that could be an It was like that sounds awful. Torture, Yeah,
absolute torture.
Speaker 3: But I was saying, it's really hard to feel like
inspired without I wanted like Cosmo, Maga, like magazines where
you could see a funny headline and it would give
you an idea of a sketch. And they were like, well,
we're not paying you to read magazines. So then, I mean,
this is kind of a classic story. The long story,
very short, is that I would call my friend Bonnie
and I would complain to her on the phone. And
one day I was calling and I was like, God,
this job just fucking sucks. And the headliner he had
been at lunch, but I turned around and he was
sitting right behind me and he was married.
Speaker 2: To the executive producer.
Speaker 3: Oh no, And nothing happened that day, so I was like, oh,
I just I mean, I had that horrible feeling, like
heart beating and like oh my god, Oh my god,
Oh my god. But then nothing happened, and I was like,
you know what, maybe he didn't hear me. Next day,
I come into work. It was a Monday, so that
had happened on a Friday Monday.
Speaker 2: I come into work and I'm like, well, I'm in
the clear.
Speaker 3: And I get called into a meeting across the street
at like a separate office area, and I'm like okay,
and I walk in and it's a whole crowd.
Speaker 2: It's the it's a lawyer. Oh hr, it's the bosses, and.
Speaker 3: They're like, have a seat, and then they're like, yeah,
we're gonna let you go.
Speaker 2: And I was like can I ask why? And they
told me I was poisoning the well.
Speaker 3: Oh with my negative attitude and my you don't like
it here, so we're gonna let you go.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, of course, well I can
finish the piece that i'm They're like, no, oh no,
you've already boxed up your stuff. Oh no, oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god yeah, They're like, here's your stuff.
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
Speaker 4: That's lunchtime nightmare of like somebody overhearing you.
Speaker 1: It's like you have nightmares about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had.
Speaker 4: One time I was I was interesting for something. It
was some television series and I went into the room
with the producers and they said, oh, you were in
You just wrapped this movie Tortilla Soup.
Speaker 1: And I said yeah. They were like, did you have
a good time? And I kind of and don't ask
me why.
Speaker 4: I started complaining about how disorganized the production was.
Speaker 1: Now, why would I do that?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 1: But I did?
Speaker 4: And then I went home and promptly got a phone
call from my agent.
Speaker 1: He was like, what the fuck did you do? They produced?
It was like twentieth century Fox and they were like,
they produced that movie and somehow.
Speaker 4: I don't know, if I didn't know who I was auditioning,
I don't know what.
Speaker 1: But I was like, oh my god, can I fix it?
Speaker 4: And he was like, no, you can't fix it, but
you can't talk that way. I have no idea why
I did that, but it probably came from like my
background of like triangulating.
Speaker 2: Right right a Patreon.
Speaker 4: God, yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Did some stupid things.
Speaker 3: So that happened to me on and on not an audition,
but on a meeting for to write on a show,
a game show, and it was called street Smart for
that show.
Speaker 2: It's super old.
Speaker 1: It sounds familiar game.
Speaker 2: Show where they asked questions to people on the street.
Speaker 3: So there was this The boss of that show met
with me and he was like, oh, so you used
to work at Love Connection now love I worked on that,
but I did not work in the office at Love Connection.
I was a what they call a stringer. Whereas so
I was too young to get a job on the show.
I was like nineteen when I did it, and I
my job was to go around to bars and try
to get contestants on the show.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: So, only person I was friends with all like name
name shout him. His name was Tim Chrisenni. I'll never
forget it. Super nice guy. I had met with him
and he hired me to be a stringer. I never
worked at the office. Okay, but this guy would complain
to me about the boss and he would tell me
these crazy stories about her. So I had a very
negative image of this boss. But I don't I didn't.
I don't think I met her. I might have met
her maybe once. Okay, so this guy. So I'm at
this meeting and the guy goes, oh, so you worked
at Love Connection, And now I have to be kind
of fake because I didn't work there per se, but
I needed to make it seem like I did because
I don't think I had many credits at that point.
Speaker 2: So I was like, uh, huh, you know. And then
he's like, yeah, what did what did you?
Speaker 3: How did you? What did you think about? And he
said it in a negative way. He was baiting, what
did you think? And I don't want to say.
Speaker 2: The woman's name. I only remember her first.
Speaker 3: Name, but let's call her Susan. What did you think about?
Like Susan Brown, you know? And I was like, oh,
kind of a bitch, right, oh no, oh no, yeah,
and he goes, oh, he goes, you know what, let's
see how what she would say about you? No, And
I lost my I mean my so freaked out. And
he goes, he's like, yeah, she's a good friend of
mine or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I said she's a bitch, I
think I.
Speaker 3: I don't think I said any that bad, but I
was like, yeah, she's like pretty mean or whatever like fire.
I don't know what I said. It was very not nice.
And then he's he called her, yes, put it on speaker,
but she didn't answer the phone.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's message.
Speaker 3: And he was just like, hey, Susan, it's me or whatever,
you know, give me a call, and I and I
just went like oh. And then he goes, she's the
supervising producer of the show.
Speaker 2: And I just was like.
Speaker 1: That is so mean.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is so mean, and so like that's that's
got to be breaking some sort of hr Like that
was abusive.
Speaker 2: That guy was an asshole.
Speaker 3: I found out later when I would tell that story
all the time because humiliating and people would be like, oh,
that guy's an asshole, but still yeah, super embarrassing, like
how stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it taught me a lesson, though I never did
that again.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean I think that, like I would go into
rooms sometimes and just be so out of my mind
with like I have to I have to act well
and I have to put on like I don't know
what possessed me to say some of the things that
I said.
Speaker 1: I remember one time I had a medicine.
Speaker 4: It was for like something that Will Smith was was producing.
So I was already kind of like, oh, I'm gonna
go meet Will Smith and I walked into the room
and there were a bunch of people there, but Rick
Fox from the Lakers was there for some reason, and I, yeah,
so cute.
Speaker 1: But I just walked into the room and went, Hi,
Rick Fox.
Speaker 4: I was so surprised to see him there, and then
I couldn't focus on anything else other than that Rick
Fox was there.
Speaker 2: Oh it was ctitdy say hi.
Speaker 1: He did say hi. I was delighted.
Speaker 6: Did you ever have any other like bad meetings where
you or did you ever have any anyones where I'm
sure you did, because this has happened to me though,
where you're like, oh my god, they loved me.
Speaker 3: I am absolutely booking this and they don't even get
like a callback or.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like oh it happens like all the time. I'll
just think, God, mad, I nailed that. I nailed it,
and then it's like literal crickets, But I mean, I
think that happens to everybody all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, So what was the last thing that
you worked on?
Speaker 1: Ah, that's a good question. What is the last thing
that I worked on? It's been so long since I've acted.
Speaker 4: I did an episode of the show Children's Hospital, the comedy.
It was like, it's like a anyone know that show?
It's very very funny. And then so like after you
did Popular and then you did The Bob's Baby, the
Baby Bob, Baby Bob. But then did you book another yea, yeah,
I never did another series, but I did pilots and
I did guest stars and like small roles in films
and stuff like that, Like I always, I always worked,
and then.
Speaker 2: But you weren't loving it as much towards.
Speaker 4: The end, I wasn't loving it as much. And like
the last thing, I've done a couple of small things
since then. But the last like like big thing I
worked on was actually I had gotten a recurring role
on a series called Worst Week, and Grayson was three
months old and I was having to like, you know,
have him brought to set so I could nurse him,
and you know, they were just very very long, long hours,
and it was just it was very hard for me
to balance an actor's life with having a newborn. And
I was also at the time but didn't know it,
dealing with undiagnosed bipolar disorder, which I think we talked
about before. So there were just a lot of variables.
And so ultimately I decided to stop acting because it
was just I was having a very very hard time
regulating my mood and even being able to audition became
very very difficult. Like it was almost like like I
forgot how to act. I kept saying that, like I
didn't know how to act anymore, and it was very
it was a very like sad thing to lose. But yeah,
I just I needed some time away and I needed
to like get healthy.
Speaker 1: Which I didn't.
Speaker 2: Feel relieved for a while, Or were you sad right away?
Speaker 4: No, I felt relieved when I first quit. Like the
first thing I did was like I left my commercial
agency because I just was like, commercials are too stressful,
auditioning for commercials, it's too much work, it's too hard.
And then eventually I just decided to stop altogether. And yeah,
I was relieved, but also you know this about me,
about like when I just wanted Grayson to pick going
to read and stop the anxiety over where he was
going to go to college.
Speaker 1: It's sort of the same thing with me.
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I don't like this, I don't feel great,
I don't feel well. I have to like do something
to make it stop. And so that's what I did.
And I still think it was the right decision because
it would still be years from then before my diagnosis,
So I don't I don't think I could have kept
doing it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing good work anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, But now you're you are auditioning.
Speaker 4: Yes again, Yes, I'm I am auditioning again. It's very
it's really fun. Like I had forgotten or it stopped
being fun, is what happened. It really just stopped being fun.
Speaker 1: But now I'm.
Speaker 4: Doing it again, and it's just kind of like I
get to audition at my house, which is great, right
because nobody audition it's in person anymore. And it's just
fun for me to get to act. Like even if
like I don't book a job, which I haven't yet,
I'm really enjoying it. I'm enjoying creating a character and
I'm enjoying like performing in like this tiny little way.
Speaker 2: That's so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to take a quick break and do
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I think we've got we got the picture you're liking
acting again, I did want to before, and we have
a couple of shows we want to talk about. You
know what screwt we I've told that story before. Had
had a couple of funny like commercial commercial audition, Like
I think that's just the worst thing ever.
Speaker 2: It's social audition.
Speaker 4: It's there's nothing real about those situations.
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to act.
Speaker 3: And when after I did my TV show Parental Discretion,
the thing that they were trying to get me like
I was already in my mid forties. They I don't
think they were going to try to make me a star.
They were like, we can get you brand deals and
we want to send you out for commercials.
Speaker 2: And I talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3: On this show because I mean the most humiliating, Like
all I got out of going on commercial auditions was
just some good stories, oh good, because I was just
not a good actress. And my favorite one is I'd
gone in and it was for my character was supposed
to have gone back to college as an adult. So
I didn't quite know how to dress for that, Like
everybody knows how to dress for commercial auditions, and I
really didn't like so I was dressed okay. So I
was dressed in jeans, like a white T shirt and
a like a short black blazer. Cute, right, Yeah, it
seemed kind of okay. So I'm wearing that and there
you go in.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: It's really funny because they so hard of it was
going to be that they're going to ask you about yourself,
uh huh, and your interests. And I feel like I
remember making fun of the fact that there was a
sign on the door at the casting office that was
like things not to bring up hiking runyon or like
some things that I guess they were so fucking sick
of hearing about that. They're like, please, don't talk about
this in your thing. So I so I told them
that my interests, Oh my god, this is coming back
to me gambling.
Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of funny. It's funny, so
I was making the guy laugh a little bit.
Speaker 3: But then I had to do the audition part, which
was you had to sit in front of this laptop
and you had to pretend that you're like working on
a paper and you have a problem and you're like
a little bit stumped, so you have to act like
you're thinking about like and then you you get you
get it, you get a solution.
Speaker 2: In your head, and then you get this.
Speaker 1: Is a terrible nightmare.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. So I felt so self conscious. It
was just terrible.
Speaker 3: And but I'm I'm like pretending to type and then
I pretend like I'm thinking. So in my thinking process
I kind of take my blazer sort of off my shoulder.
Now I'm a writer and was a writer at the time,
so like in my mind, I'm like, well, you know,
you just get a little uncomfortable. You're thinking, and you're like,
let me, oh, I'm kind of I'm getting warm, So
I took the.
Speaker 1: Blazer off, like stroking an imaginary.
Speaker 2: Beard basically, right.
Speaker 3: So I do the take and then the guy goes,
why did you take your blazer off?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and I was like, I guess I
felt like that kind of was maybe how I think,
and he was like, we do another take where.
Speaker 2: You don't take your paper off, and I was like.
Speaker 1: Well, well, at least they gave you another try.
Speaker 3: I had like three auditions and I did not get
a callback for any of them.
Speaker 1: Commercials are tough, man.
Speaker 4: You can make a lot of money, like I did
commercials where I definitely made a lot of money, but
like it's getting that job that is so hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, any any humiliating ones like that?
Speaker 1: Oh, they're all humiliating. Like I remember I had one
and this is when.
Speaker 4: I that's when I first started acting, and I had
an audition for a gap commercial and like I went
in with like a group of people and it was
like all like you know, like kids, like like teenagers,
early twenties, and they like had us each like introduce
ourselves and say a thing and then they were like, okay,
one by one, you're gonna step forward and do and
freestyle like dance, like.
Speaker 1: Hip hop freestyle.
Speaker 4: And I was like, what what.
Speaker 1: I am so not a dancer. I have zero rhythm.
Speaker 4: And everybody was a dancer, and so they all went
out there and were like doing these crazy you.
Speaker 2: Know, you have to commit and you have to commit.
Speaker 4: And I just like walked out there and did like
my little like like nineties like I'm dancing to like
depeche Mode or Susie in the Banshee's like a little
emo dance and then walked back to the line with
my tail between my legs. Oh god, it was human,
Like I'm getting hot and prickly just thinking about it now.
Speaker 1: It was awful.
Speaker 2: That's that is. That sounds so much like something I was.
I would have been sent out to do, but I couldn't.
Speaker 3: Even do the bare minimum, Like I remember another one
where I had to pretend to be driving a truck,
like a UPS truck. Yeah, I thing my movements were
so big, like you know, I might as well have
been like turning a steering wheel as big as the moon.
Speaker 2: You know, I just have no sense.
Speaker 3: Of how to do like space work. I'm just like
I'm dress right now. And they're like, thank you.
Speaker 4: But it's such a dumb thing to ask somebody to
do because you're not going to be doing that in
the commercial.
Speaker 1: You're not driving a fake truck.
Speaker 4: And like, I had an acting teacher when I was
in school, and he would be like, do not pantomime,
never ever pantomime, and like that is stuck so securely
in my brain, and to ask somebody to pantomime in
an audition situation is ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay, Well I'm kind of glad that's behind
you a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3: But before we go, I made you watch well you'd
already watched it. Yeah, I told Lynette to watch it,
but she's not here, so fuck her. We're talking about it.
The Carmen Family murders, not murders.
Speaker 2: Murder.
Speaker 1: No, it's not murders because nobody was ever prosecuted. It's
the it's the Carmen Family deaths. I believe it's not
called murders.
Speaker 2: Are you sure?
Speaker 1: I'm almost positive.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna google it. We don't have
a proper or it.
Speaker 1: Might be killings.
Speaker 3: The Carmen Oh, you're right, the Carmen Family deaths.
Speaker 1: Right, weird because it should be murders.
Speaker 2: You're so right.
Speaker 3: So before we get into it, the reason I saw
it on my Netflix que and then I saw on
Netflix that people were this is.
Speaker 2: How I want to introduce us to this topic.
Speaker 3: I saw on Netflix that people were like, this is
such a crazy mystery, like I'm not sure, Like I
felt one way and then I felt another way. And
then I watched it and I was like, what are
these people talking about?
Speaker 1: M h How did you ever not think that he
did it?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, right, I know.
Speaker 4: Well, I think part of the problem is that because
he's on the autism spectrum, the handling of his interviews
and interrogations was very bad. It was handled terribly and
a lot of the things that they said that he
did were very typical for people on the spectrum, and
but those were a lot of the reasons why they
suspected him.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why people were torn, is because
they were like.
Speaker 4: Well, no, he's not a murderer, He's just on the spectrum.
Speaker 3: There was so much dark stuff though that had happened
with that kid, and from the beginning, and he was
basically a sociopath autistic or not it and listen. Yes,
he was definitely very autistic. I don't know if very
autistic is a good right, you know, But he also
there was so there was a lot of proof and
evidence that he did do it and all a lot
of the things. There was things where he was I
don't it's not really a spoiler, but like where he
was asking about, like, okay, so how long after if
this person dies?
Speaker 2: Then like when do I get the money?
Speaker 3: Right? Does this person and then does this person have
to die? And then I get the money? And then
lo and behold those people died?
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah, it is interesting. But I think you can
think of it in two ways, which is because he
was on the spectrum, he's like systematizing, so he just
wants to know how things lay out. So in his
mind he's like, well, I just want to know how
this is going to go. I'm not saying that's what happened,
but I'm saying.
Speaker 3: How it's going to go once I killed, Once I
kill her, every how does that work? Do I get
the money immediately? I mean, there was no everybody told
the mom. They're like, do not don't get on a
boat with them, don't get on a boat with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that it was.
Speaker 4: You know, I feel like there were a lot of
things that were glossed over, like they sent him away
to one of those awful wilderness camps in Utah.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and they did the full like head of kidnapped, kidnapped.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that dad was very weird.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: And what was were the mom and dad like ever together?
Speaker 2: They never explained, they never talked about it.
Speaker 1: But I think so because this family. So here's the thing.
Speaker 4: I think this family very much weaponized money. So and
a lot of it came from that. Like the mom
doing that video where she's telling Nathan that he's not
going to inherit the house was a very strange and
unnecessary video to make because he had been living in
a camper and didn't come inside anymore, so she wasn't
going to leave him the house. The dad seemed to
know stuff about him living in the camper, was talking
about how he was like taking apart microwaves, which I
think for somebody who he was diagnosed with Asperger's which
is no longer the name of that diagnosis, but I
think somebody with that diagnosis, it's not straight for them
to take a part of microwave and put it back together.
Speaker 3: I disagree in the way that that those behaviors.
Speaker 2: He was clearly had antisocial persons, oh for sure.
Speaker 3: For sure, like and he was, you know, not bathing
and like often this camper and I'm not saying like
that is definitely not just because he had aspergers.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, It was because probably that, But
then it became a mental illness because probably from the
way he was treated, probably from the dysfunction and being
sent away.
Speaker 3: But he was also like had very bad tendencies. I
don't want to say like violent. I know they said, well,
you never did anything violent.
Speaker 4: Well, he did pull a knife on somebody, yes, so
that's pretty violent.
Speaker 1: Oh was it his mom?
Speaker 2: I think it was his mom. Oh I thought it.
Speaker 4: Was somebody at school. I could be wrong, but I
thought he was doing it outside the family.
Speaker 3: Awful stuff and at school that it necessitated them sending
him doing something with him.
Speaker 1: But here's here's the thing that I didn't understand.
Speaker 4: So when they had him committed to the mental hospital,
and then they said, yeah, but the grandfather, like he
was supposed to be there alone dealing with his issues.
But the grandfather would go and visit him and bring
him pizza and bring him newspapers. But I'm like, if
he was supposed to be there alone according to who,
like you know what I mean, Like they're not just
going to let the grandfather in if he's not supposed
to be.
Speaker 3: There, right same, So were they just not visiting him?
Was that just their own thing of like nobody go visiting.
I think his father was like, fuck you, I'm going
to go visit him.
Speaker 1: That's what I think.
Speaker 4: I think so because they it felt to me like
they just wanted to get rid of him, like they
send him to that horrible wilderness camp and then they
I think he.
Speaker 3: Was totally out of control though, and the mom was
still trying to protect maybe maybe like that's my son.
It seemed pretty obvious that he killed the grandfather. Yeah,
only one there, Yeah, the last person to see him.
There were all kinds of other evidence. I don't know,
people should go watch it. And then the mom was
like I don't want to hear about it, like he's
my son and I don't care.
Speaker 4: It's odd though that he wasn't charged with it. And
that's what I don't understand. Like they found out later
that he had bought a gun out of state with
an out of state license, which he shouldn't have been
able to do. It was the same kind of gun
that could have been used in the murders. It was
the same bullets, although those bullets can be used in
like a wide variety of rifles.
Speaker 1: But he got the gun and then lost the gun
and lied.
Speaker 3: About it and then didn't Yeah, and then it was
literally like two weeks later the dad died.
Speaker 2: Yeah, grandfather died.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I don't know why he wasn't charged.
Speaker 4: It seems that they interrogated him and he had the
knowledge that, like he was like, oh, I'm all my
grandfather's head just got blown off, and they were like,
who told you that?
Speaker 2: Oh, my god, the right thing. His head got blown off. Yeah,
But so it was nobody knew that except please.
Speaker 1: That's what they're saying. But then why wasn't he arrested.
I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's very strange to me.
Speaker 3: So I was saying to John, Okay, so typical me.
I'd watched like most of it except for the final
twenty minutes, and I was like, so the next night
was I guess last night. Yeah, I said, we got
to I got to finish this Carmen family deaths because
I'm going to talk about it tomorrow. And then I
was like, wouldn't it be interesting if there was some
kind of twist? I was like, because what could happen
in the last twenty minutes? I was like, wouldn't it
be weird if there was some like the jinks, like
I don't know, something that was like crazy that happens,
and we're like, yeah, what's going to happen in the
last And then there is a twist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a twist.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a big twist. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I thought it was just very very obvious,
like who else would it was?
Speaker 6: Him?
Speaker 2: Yeah? But come on, Yeah.
Speaker 4: It left me with a lot of questions and yeah,
I mean I think that he had probably for sure
been financially abused by his family. It sounds like the
grandfather really financially abused his children, like threatening to take
away their inheritance, threatening to take.
Speaker 3: But the grandfather was giving him like one hundred thousand
dollars a year, yes to freaking live, And all the
grandfather was saying was like I think he was like
you have to get a job, like you have to
go to school something, and not just sitting in a
camper taking apart microwaves ye like and he refused.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he basically said, fuck you, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know that there was financial abuse on him
from the grandfather, but I think that there was for
the sisters, Like he was constantly like, well, if you
do this, I'm not going to give you your monthly
allowance if you do this, or like how I guess he.
Speaker 2: Was super controlling and crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so I don't know if that was the
case with Nathan. But they also said that the grandfather
could get violent, Like they said that it like sometimes
came to blows with his daughters.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: So I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility
that he got into a fight with the kid. I mean,
I don't know who's walking around with a rifle, Like
that's a pretty big thing to hide.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The whole thing is.
Speaker 4: I've got a lot of questions, got a lot of answers.
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of questions.
Speaker 2: I know, I want to know more.
Speaker 3: It reminds me of that one about the that I've
already now forgotten the name of the woman that we've
talked about on the cruise ship.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can't remember her name either.
Speaker 2: Kind of reminds me of that kind of thing where
you're like, well we ever know.
Speaker 4: Well, And that's the thing is I'm way to hear
what information we don't have yet, because with that with
the cruise ship, there was so much that came out
after that, like poketols on a lot of those theories.
Speaker 1: So I'm that is true, but there is.
Speaker 2: Real strong evidence that this kid did it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how you find another explanation.
Speaker 2: There were none even brought up. I mean no, well.
Speaker 4: They didn't go beyond him for I mean, I don't
know who they looked at for the grandfather's murder, like
other than the mom.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: And then the stuff about when he goes out on
the boat with his mom and he's like his story
just keeps changing. And that was not really just the interrogation.
That was just him going like well, they're like, well
what was the other forty five minutes though, and he's like, uh,
got lost? No, you didn't get lost, and he's like,
they showed the map of where he's driving, it's just
like driving around and it was like his explanations made
no sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess not.
Speaker 4: I sort of related to the getting lost thing though,
because like I'm like, it's.
Speaker 1: Three in the morning, you're probably zoning out. And then
you're like, well, it.
Speaker 3: Is my action on that little fishing boat in the
middle of the night.
Speaker 2: In the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I don't understand.
Speaker 4: But there were a lot of things like when the
detective was like, well, he bought eel, but then he
left it in the car, and if they were going fishing,
why would he leave it in the car. And it's like,
you don't leave eel on your car on purpose, Like
that was he just forgot because that's stinky, right right.
But then I was like, so there was a thing
about like him taking the plate thing off the back
of the boat and that's what let.
Speaker 2: The water because he drilled holes.
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't that he drilled holes.
Speaker 4: It was that there was something attached to the back
of the boat and he took the bolts off, he
removed the thing so that there were holes. Yeah, but
then I read that he filled the holes that he
was seen filling the holes with like some sort of putty,
so that it's weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. Man, Yeah he did it.
You're welcome, We've solved the crime.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this has been super fun. I'm so
happy that you are available to come in. I love
this was great. Okay, and before we go, first of all,
let's do another shout out for your jewelry company. Great
by Tamra Mellow. It's on Etsy. They she makes fabulous,
really cool, very specific.
Speaker 2: If you want, like an anniversary gaft.
Speaker 3: You do like the different years, the different metals for
the different years. You do these really cool coughs, you
do great necklaces and you and I can't not do
a shout out for the guitar pick that Xander loves his.
Speaker 2: I've posted pictures for you guys. Last year. I think
I gave him the guitar pick for Christmas.
Speaker 1: I think so yeah, yeah, and it was a huge hit.
Speaker 2: And he wears it all the time.
Speaker 1: Oh that makes me so happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah for Xander. Yeah, it's like a little silver it's.
Speaker 4: All silver, a guitar pick, but an I HAMD stamp everything,
so everything is like made by me by hand in
my studio, and I customize things by like stamping letters,
like one little letter at a time into the metal.
So for Xander's pick, we just put a big X
in the middle of his pick.
Speaker 2: It's so cool.
Speaker 1: He loves it.
Speaker 3: He wears it all the time. So if for all
the little the musicians in your life, the guitar players,
get them this necklace, they love it.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 3: And then as always, Adams got a car. That's our
that's our car broker. He's a personal friend of mine,
my friend Cecily's husband, and he figures out the best
deals and takes all the headache out of getting a car.
Saves you a lot of money. But we already did
all the other shouts except for our name shouts. Christa,
get the strap, Stephanie's a stinker, rinker, Sandra, it's not
easy being green, Jennifer, get up. Aaron's a dirty Sanchez, Leslie, Okay,
it's the season for coughing.
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 3: Alicia Escalante from the City of Ville Monte. Kelly Brandt
is not your aunt, but she'll act like one. Stand
in Rebecca and Open is very cute and Echon Voge
Pey is so sexy, and Missy and Gabby are up
to no good as usual.
Speaker 2: Katerina, check your molar.
Speaker 3: Valerie hits it out of the park, Polly, you love
your pancakes, Rita is rocking, Elizabeth Williamson's many kids in
our best's and Net and Nikki call your girl, and
Dick keep on frolicking, and I hope you guys had
a happy Thanksgiving. Listen to our Patreon because we got
into it about like family stuff, and yeah, thank you again, Tamra.
Speaker 2: Thank you right now.
Speaker 1: Don't nuff it up. It's good.
Speaker 3: Many good