Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of
Speaker 1: Second Take Cinema, coming at you from the Glorious Imparlor
Speaker 1: Film's headquarters in sunny South End on Sea. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Jamie Evans, joined as always by mister Rory Joscelyn.
Speaker 2: The notes cool cool.
Speaker 1: That's not, No, it's not And this is Listener Request
Speaker 1: Month on Second Take Cinema. To be honest, I've not
Speaker 1: actually worked out yet either. It will actually last within
Speaker 1: one month, so basically doing five weeks, okay, five weeks
Speaker 1: of listener requests, that's right. We went on our Discord
Speaker 1: and our Patreon and we asked people to submit requests
Speaker 1: of films they wanted us to cover here on Second
Speaker 1: Take Cinema, and we picked the five best one. So
Speaker 1: today's request is the two thousand and five superhero movie
Speaker 1: Batman Begins. And that request came to us from Craig
Speaker 1: from Leicester, from Leicestershire, and he wrote into us to say, Hi, guys,
Speaker 1: I'd like to request Batman Begins for Listener Request Month.
Speaker 2: I know you already covered.
Speaker 1: The Dark Knight see previous episode, and I liked that episode,
Speaker 1: but I've always thought Batman Begins is the best film
Speaker 1: in Nolan's trilogy. I think it feels more accurate to
Speaker 1: Batman the comic book character, and is a more solid story.
Speaker 1: The Dark Knight feels unfocused with the whole two faced
Speaker 1: thing at the end. Also, this batsuit is better, right.
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear you guys discuss it. Cheers Craig. Well, Craig,
Speaker 1: We're happy to grant your wish. We're gonna do a
Speaker 1: whole episode talking about Batman Begins. So, just to sum up,
Speaker 1: Batman Begins is a two thousand and five superhero movie.
Speaker 1: Is directed by Christopher Nolan, who co wrote the screenplay
Speaker 1: with David S.
Speaker 2: Goyer.
Speaker 1: The film stars Christian Bale, Michael kainleam Nie and Katie Holmes,
Speaker 1: Gary Oldman, Killian Murphy, Tom Wilkinson, Rutger Hower, Ken Waternobby,
Speaker 1: and Morgan Freeman. It was made for a budget of
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollars and it grossed three
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five point four million dollar at the
Speaker 1: box office. On Rotten, Tomatow's Batman Begins has an eighty
Speaker 1: five percent approval rating, with the site's critical consensus reading
Speaker 1: brooding and dark, but also exciting and smart. Batman Begins
Speaker 1: is a film that understands the essence of one of
Speaker 1: the definitive superheroes. James barrard and Elli applauded Nolan and
Speaker 1: Goya's work in creating more understanding into who Batman is
Speaker 1: and what motivates him, something Barrardinelli felt Tim Burton's film
Speaker 1: had lacked. At the same time, Barardinelli felt the romantic
Speaker 1: aspect between Bail and Holmes did not work because the
Speaker 1: actors lacked chemistry Christopher Reeve and Margo Kidder in Superman,
Speaker 1: or Toby Maguire and kirst And Dunced in Spider Man
Speaker 1: shared in their respective roles oh Get dunked on. According
Speaker 1: to Total Film, Nolan manages to create such strong characters
Speaker 1: and story that the third act action sequence cannot compare
Speaker 1: to the frisson of two people talking and Katie Holmes
Speaker 1: and Christian Bale's romantic subplot as a spark refreshingly free
Speaker 1: of Peter Parker Mary Jane's style. Why so two completely
Speaker 1: opposing opinions.
Speaker 2: Refreshingly free of any chemistry as well.
Speaker 1: The Los Angeles Times as Kenneth Turan, who felt the
Speaker 1: film began slowly stated that the story, psychology, and reality,
Speaker 1: not special effects, assisted the darkness behind Batman's arsenal. He
Speaker 1: noted that Nissan and Holmes, unlike Bale's ability to feel
Speaker 1: his role in his Bones, do not appear to fit
Speaker 1: their respective characters in being both comic book archetypes and
Speaker 1: real people. You mean to tell me Liam Neeson doesn't
Speaker 1: fit a character called ras Al Gore. Yeah, I'd never
Speaker 1: have imagined that.
Speaker 2: Ever. Well, it's in his nature, you know, he sees
Speaker 2: something he likes and it's taken. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The New Yorkers David Denby did not share Barardinellie in
Speaker 1: Turan's opinion. He was unimpressed with the film when comparing
Speaker 1: it to the two Tim Burton films, and that Christian
Speaker 1: Bale's presence was hindered by the dull, earnestness of the screenplay,
Speaker 1: the final climax was cheesy and unexciting, and that Nolan
Speaker 1: had resorted to imitating the fakery by other filmmakers when
Speaker 1: filming action sequencers and I think like the quick cutting
Speaker 1: and stuff like that to hide the stunts. Michael Wilmington
Speaker 1: of the Chicago Tribune believe Nolan and Goya managed to
Speaker 1: comfortably mix the tormented drama and revenge motifs with lighthearted
Speaker 1: gags and comic book illusions, and that Nolan takes the
Speaker 1: series out of the slam bang Hollywood joke fests the
Speaker 1: franchise had drifted into. Comic book scribe and editor Dennis
Speaker 1: O'Neil stated that he thought the filmmakers really understood the
Speaker 1: character they were translating, citing this film as the best
Speaker 1: of the live action Batman films. In contrast, J R.
Speaker 1: Jones from The Chicago Reader criticized the script and Nolan
Speaker 1: and David Goyer for not living up to the hype
Speaker 1: about exploring Batman's damaged psyche.
Speaker 2: To be fair like that sounds a little bit overblown,
Speaker 2: like not living up to the hype maybe that some
Speaker 2: fans had. But after Batman and Robin, there really wasn't
Speaker 2: that much hype.
Speaker 1: No, I remember Batman Beginnings kind of coming and go.
Speaker 1: I don't remember there being any hype until Dark Knight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Batman Begins did really well. But on the
Speaker 2: lead up to Batman Begins, I don't I was an
Speaker 2: adult already by that point, and I do not recall
Speaker 2: people clamoring for it it's always been shit because Batman
Speaker 2: and Robin had damaged its reputation so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Roger Ebert, we'd love to quote rogerie but on
Speaker 1: the show. Roger Ebert, who gave mixed reviews to the
Speaker 1: previous films and claimed in his review for Batman Returns
Speaker 1: that he did not believe Noir worked in superhero films, wrote,
Speaker 1: this was the Batman movie I've been waiting for. More correctly,
Speaker 1: this is the movie I did not realize I was
Speaker 1: waiting for. Giving it four out of four stars. He
Speaker 1: commended the realistic portrayals of the Batman arsenal, the batsuit,
Speaker 1: bat Cave, tombla, and the bat signal, as well as
Speaker 1: the focus on the story and the character with less
Speaker 1: stress on high tech action.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I think a lot of people had the
Speaker 2: same reaction, whether this was like the great Batman film
Speaker 2: or the great Batman reboot that nobody knew they wanted,
Speaker 2: and which is why. Then the Dark Knight also did
Speaker 2: a lot better, because a you're bringing back the Joker,
Speaker 2: which is going to make a Batman sell more, and
Speaker 2: also you had the Heath Ledger interpretation of it, which
Speaker 2: then was huge as well.
Speaker 1: And Lastly, director Tim Burton, who had directed the nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty nine Batman film and Batman Returns, felt Nolan captured
Speaker 1: the real spirit that these kind of movies are supposed
Speaker 1: to have nowadays. When I did Batman twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight or something, it was a different
Speaker 1: time in comic book movies. You couldn't go into that
Speaker 1: dark side of comics. Yet the last couple of years
Speaker 1: that has become acceptable, and Nolan certainly got more to
Speaker 1: the root of what the Batman.
Speaker 2: Comics are about.
Speaker 1: There were going a nice, nice bit of praise from
Speaker 1: the original Batman director. So, Rory, do you recall the
Speaker 1: first time you saw Batman begins?
Speaker 2: I don't think I saw this one at the cinema.
Speaker 2: I did The Dark Knight following it. I remember that
Speaker 2: one very vividly. I don't know if if I watched
Speaker 2: this one at the cinema, if I watched it when
Speaker 2: it first got home to DVD, but I recall watching
Speaker 2: it with my family and enjoying it. It was a very
Speaker 2: good film. I certainly for its time. There's certain things
Speaker 2: that have aged slightly badly, but for the most part,
Speaker 2: it still holds up and I remember enjoying it at
Speaker 2: the time and still enjoyed it when we watched it
Speaker 2: this time. So yeah, there's not a huge amount to say.
Speaker 2: My dad has told me that he thinks this is
Speaker 2: the best of Nolan's trilogy. Oh fantastic. Yeah, so there's
Speaker 2: but I don't agree. I'm firmly in the pocket of
Speaker 2: the Dung as the best one, and that's not been
Speaker 2: changed by this viewing. What I would say is, I
Speaker 2: think I know why my dad would prefer this one
Speaker 2: over The Dark Night. I think the reason my dad
Speaker 2: prefers this one, he says, it's because it feels more
Speaker 2: like a comic book than the sequels do, which I
Speaker 2: would agree with him on. And the other thing is
Speaker 2: my dad loves medieval movies, and specifically, and I trained
Speaker 2: in this as well, with sword fight and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: This has a lot of that, certainly at the beginning
Speaker 2: where he's training with raj al Ghoul, whereas the sequels
Speaker 2: don't really have much sword play. I think those two
Speaker 2: things combined are the reason my dad prefers this one,
Speaker 2: whereas I like the second one because it subverts the
Speaker 2: genre and that's gonna be something that's gonna be Essentially,
Speaker 2: that's gonna be if you like this film or over
Speaker 2: the second one, that's gonna be what you'll choose it on. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you want something that's very close, much more closer
Speaker 2: to the comics, you'll prefer this. Do you prefer something
Speaker 2: that subverts the genre, is a really fucking amazing crime
Speaker 2: story with Batman on top, then you'll prefer the second one. Right,
Speaker 2: But that that seemed to be the difference, at least
Speaker 2: between me and my dad. So, yeah, what about yourself?
Speaker 1: So I did see this trilogy in the wrong order.
Speaker 1: This was actually the last one in the trilogy I saw.
Speaker 2: Begins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had been burned by Batman Forever and Batman and Robin,
Speaker 1: which I both hate, I think terrible. I am in
Speaker 1: the very weird camp where I enjoy Batman and Robin
Speaker 1: more than Batman Forever.
Speaker 2: Yes, they are both.
Speaker 1: They're both terrible, but Batman and Robin I at least
Speaker 1: find laughably terrible.
Speaker 2: I think that there's Jim Carrey in Batman Forever being
Speaker 2: full Jim Carrey. If you don't like Jim Carrey, you're
Speaker 2: basically you're with Tommy Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah, to sanction
Speaker 2: a buffoonery. Yeah. I can imagine if you ever got
Speaker 2: if you were there at the time and had a
Speaker 2: job with Jim Carrey, you would have been that guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So I actually ended up seeing Dark Knight by
Speaker 1: kind of accident. I had no interest in seeing.
Speaker 2: Dark Knight either. I was I was literally done with Batman.
Speaker 2: I'd like lost all interest in it.
Speaker 1: And then there was all the hype for the Dark
Speaker 1: Knight and I was like, oh, I'm sure it won't
Speaker 1: be that good, and literally it was one boring summer's day.
Speaker 1: My friends like to want to come to the cinema.
Speaker 1: What we're watching Dark Knight better than staying at home
Speaker 1: all day in it. So when saw The Dark Knight,
Speaker 1: loved it, went to the cinema to watch Dark Knight
Speaker 1: rises as well when it came out in twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: and then people yeah. And then it was in my
Speaker 1: last year at UNI, which was the following year twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: I was making a superhero parody film and figured, hey,
Speaker 1: I should probably see more superhero films because I actually
Speaker 1: hadn't seen many up to that point. Is that the
Speaker 1: Crimson Avenger yeah, and I hadn't seen many up to
Speaker 1: that point. I had only seen Raymie spider Man trilogy,
Speaker 1: the Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher Batman's and the first
Speaker 1: the Richard Donner.
Speaker 2: Superman with Christopher Eve in it.
Speaker 1: Other than that, I don't think I had seen any
Speaker 1: superhero films. I hadn't seen any of the Avengers or anything.
Speaker 1: So I went on a binge watch of every superhero
Speaker 1: film I could lay my hands on, and let me
Speaker 1: tell you, that was a ranging quality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got Electra on one end.
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't watch Electra, but I think the worst
Speaker 1: one I ended up watching, well, I know, I know
Speaker 1: the worst one I ended up watching, which was Ryan
Speaker 1: Reynolds's Green Lantern, which is fucking dog shit. I also
Speaker 1: ended up watching the old Fantastic Four film with Jessic
Speaker 1: Crowber and Owen Grufford in it. Okay, and those films
Speaker 1: are terrible, But I weirdly.
Speaker 2: Have a bit of a soft spot for the first one.
Speaker 2: And it might be.
Speaker 1: It might be because somehow, at least until the end
Speaker 1: of this year, when this might change, it's somehow, however unlikely,
Speaker 1: This sounds is the best Dr Doom they've ever done,
Speaker 1: which is not saying it's good because it's not. But
Speaker 1: the Dodor Doom they did in fant four Stick was
Speaker 1: so bad right that the one from the Chris evans
Speaker 1: Owen Grufford Fantastic.
Speaker 2: Four looks better. Anyway, Batman mcginns was one of the
Speaker 2: ones I ended up watching. I have to say I
Speaker 2: was disappointed.
Speaker 1: And that's probably because I saw Dark Knight and dar
Speaker 1: Nut rise as first ye seeing.
Speaker 2: It start from this point and build.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're both bigger in scope, and as I think
Speaker 1: we talked about before we started recording, Nolan hasn't quite
Speaker 1: found the style he wants the trilogy to be in
Speaker 1: this one. This one does feel different from the other two.
Speaker 1: The other two feel like they go together. This one
Speaker 1: feels like it's a step removed. Yeah, the cinematography is
Speaker 1: a good cue for that.
Speaker 2: It still looks good. I'm not going to slag this
Speaker 2: film off for a cinemata. He actually looks very good.
Speaker 2: But the nighttime scenes aren't quite as contrasty. They're not
Speaker 2: quite as dark. They there's a whole bit where at
Speaker 2: night Batman stood on a wooden beam, looking down and
Speaker 2: chatting to Gordon and he's literally like lit up as
Speaker 2: if it was bright daylight, and it's meant to be
Speaker 2: the middle of the night and he's meant to be Batman,
Speaker 2: and Batman's costume in the bright daytime doesn't look great.
Speaker 2: So and it's not that it's a bad costume, it's
Speaker 2: just it's not that sort of a design, you know,
Speaker 2: it's something that works in the nighttime, And so there's
Speaker 2: that issue. Also, Gotham looks very different in this film.
Speaker 2: The second two films something else that I like about them,
Speaker 2: but other people might dislike about them. They look like
Speaker 2: ordinary cities, whereas in this one it's not quite the
Speaker 2: cheese and camp of the original Batman film, certainly not
Speaker 2: the Batman and Robin version, which has massive pseudo naked men,
Speaker 2: ripped at Las style dudes, is as statues and shit
Speaker 2: all around the place. But it's got a style to
Speaker 2: it that's slightly out of reality, including the big monoail,
Speaker 2: which becomes a big part of the story. Yes, now,
Speaker 2: a lot that's all cgi and that's a different thing.
Speaker 2: We'll discuss the cegy later. But the yeah that there
Speaker 2: is this This Gotham doesn't look like the other Gothams
Speaker 2: from the next two films. So is it's kind of
Speaker 2: like that jump you got between Batman for Batman Returns
Speaker 2: Batman Forever, or certainly if you were to jump from
Speaker 2: Batman Returns to Batman and Robin, Yeah, the style and
Speaker 2: tonal difference would be quite jarring. I now, it's funny.
Speaker 1: Craig mentioned in his letter that he found Dark Knight
Speaker 1: to be unfocused.
Speaker 2: I find this to be really unfocused. Right. Why is
Speaker 2: Scarecrow even in this film he's kind of a middleman
Speaker 2: for raj al Ghoulis. Yeah, and I know this, this
Speaker 2: is just disappeared off at one point and never comes.
Speaker 2: And this is purely my opinion.
Speaker 1: And I know a lot of comic book fans will
Speaker 1: disagree because ras Algall is actually a huge villain in
Speaker 1: the comics who's like really important and stuff. I'd work
Speaker 1: way way rather watch Scarecrow, and not just because is
Speaker 1: Killian Murphy. I know he's flavor of the month at
Speaker 1: the minute. I just think it's so much, so much
Speaker 1: versus scare Please please, you know, sue me. I want
Speaker 1: a little bit of super in my superhero film. I'm
Speaker 1: more interested in a guy who's got a toxin that
Speaker 1: can cause hallucinations and fear and shit than I am
Speaker 1: in Liam Neeson with a badly stuck on go tea,
Speaker 1: Oh the food Manchu doing martial arts. It's more interesting
Speaker 1: to me. And like I said, that's a personal taste thing.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people would disagree. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that that makes it unfocused. I think the benefit
Speaker 1: that that ended up having, though it doesn't if you
Speaker 1: take this film in isolation it doesn't really work, is
Speaker 1: that it brought allowed for Killian Murphy to be kind
Speaker 1: of the recurring villain throughout the trilogy. He's the only
Speaker 1: villain who recurs throughout all three. But that being said,
Speaker 1: that's something that they can built into it later. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a planned thing, I don't think.
Speaker 2: And the way he goes he just gets sort of
Speaker 2: tasered once well for some reason riding a horse. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's never explained because he's never shown riding horses at
Speaker 2: any other point now. And also the reason he's riding
Speaker 2: the horses because everyone else is going mad because they've
Speaker 2: sprayed the toxins in the air, but some reason it
Speaker 2: doesn't affect the horse. They never explain that, So it's
Speaker 2: not that it's unfocused. It just feels like there's bits
Speaker 2: of information missing.
Speaker 1: Well, it's just because I feel like there's like four
Speaker 1: villains in this movie, not all at the same level.
Speaker 1: So you've got the head of the mafia, which is
Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson.
Speaker 2: Yes, Falcony he gets to.
Speaker 1: Basically there's a villain per act because you've got Tom
Speaker 1: Wilkinson's the villain in the first act. Then Scarecrows the
Speaker 1: main villain of the second act, and then ras Algall's
Speaker 1: there for the third act, and then you kind of
Speaker 1: just have because they I guess they decided, well, you know,
Speaker 1: not just batman, Bruce Wayne needs a villain as well.
Speaker 1: You've kind of got Roger Howard just pottering around and
Speaker 1: being like, hey, I'm a bad business man.
Speaker 2: Five thing, because you've also got the guy who was
Speaker 2: in Sons of Anarky who plays the cop opposite the cop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, you've kind of got five villains. Though I
Speaker 2: don't think the corrupt cop or is it Earl the
Speaker 2: Rocker House characters. I don't know what the character's name
Speaker 2: wasn't I just see great hobo with a shotgun. Here
Speaker 2: he is. This is how he felt because he loses
Speaker 2: his job at the end of the film, and so
Speaker 2: that's how he becomes the hobo with a shotgun. But basically,
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you would classify the the bent
Speaker 2: Cop and the Rotgahwer characters as villains quote unquote before Batman,
Speaker 2: because they're not super villains in the way that Batman
Speaker 2: would normally fight where a scarecrow raj al Ghoul definitely are,
Speaker 2: and Falcone isn't a super villain, but because he's Mafia,
Speaker 2: he definitely classifies the I don't know it, I see
Speaker 2: what you're saying. And none of them get tied off either,
Speaker 2: because other than raj al Ghoul, they're all alive. Now, Rokka,
Speaker 2: how are we know? Not that we knew this at
Speaker 2: this point, but Roka Howard's character becomes ineffectual essentially because
Speaker 2: he never returns the bank cop in this isn't seen
Speaker 2: in the sequels either. I'm not sure get two new
Speaker 2: bank cops in the next one. Yeah, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if one of them is meant to be replacing him
Speaker 2: as the same role or if they're just different named characters.
Speaker 2: But to be fair, there are bank cops all over
Speaker 2: Gotham City, so it kind of makes sense the so
Speaker 2: those two are in effectual. We get the Scarecrow comeback,
Speaker 2: so he doesn't get dispatched. Earl doesn't come back, so
Speaker 2: he's an effectual and Large is the only one who
Speaker 2: gets dispatched. Yeah, so he gets killed, but that doesn't
Speaker 2: stop him.
Speaker 1: In the third one, crow barring his daughter in and
Speaker 1: being like surprise, Yeah, but that's not this film's first.
Speaker 2: That's not this film's fault. And to be that did
Speaker 2: ruin the third film because it should have been communism
Speaker 2: as the main.
Speaker 1: Sort of But my other thing that makes me feel
Speaker 1: like it's not focused very well.
Speaker 2: And I want to just be.
Speaker 1: Clear, I'm not trying. I'm not trying to imply that
Speaker 1: I didn't like this film. I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: terrible film by any stretch of the imagination. I just
Speaker 1: I'm explaining why I do not think it is the
Speaker 1: best one in the trilogy. The moral center of this film.
Speaker 2: Completely doesn't work in my opinion.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is Batman goes to train with the
Speaker 1: League of Shadows, and he does his training, and that's
Speaker 1: where we get all the backstory in the flashbacks and shit,
Speaker 1: and then at the end they're like, congratulations, you've passed
Speaker 1: your training. Your finally, your final task of initiation is
Speaker 1: you've got to kill this motherfucker.
Speaker 2: And Bruce it's.
Speaker 1: A guy who's he stole someone's farmland, and Bruce Way
Speaker 1: won't do it because this is where he sets up
Speaker 1: his rule of I will not kill people because that's
Speaker 1: not justice. And you get this nice little ethical conundrum
Speaker 1: where Ra's al Ghoul. Well, no, we don't know that
Speaker 1: le obese, and Isra's alcohol admitte At the minute, we
Speaker 1: think he's Henry Ducarte. He's sort of come the exact line.
Speaker 1: But it's something like criminals prey on the forgiveness of
Speaker 1: society and basically implying that you can't forgive them it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what crime they've done, or crime needs to
Speaker 1: be treated with a firm slap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I don't know how they then classify themselves
Speaker 2: because they're as much as they might think they're doing
Speaker 2: the good work, they are murdering people. So technically, you know,
Speaker 2: if the rule is there is no soft spot in crime,
Speaker 2: they've got to kill themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a bit as well. That was my
Speaker 1: other things from the comic program. I know, I'm going
Speaker 1: off topics slightly, and this is again from the comic,
Speaker 1: so but it makes me laugh. They go, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a more realistic Batman for realistic take.
Speaker 2: Who are the villains?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's this ancient order that survived for thousands of
Speaker 1: years and we're behind the fall of Rome. I'm always
Speaker 1: a little bit like, right, okay, yeah, they did the
Speaker 1: Great Fire of London as well, right, Okay, they put
Speaker 1: the bibotic plague godship.
Speaker 2: Okay. But anyway, so.
Speaker 1: Batman comes up with his rule here, which is going
Speaker 1: to become the focus of the rest of this trilogy.
Speaker 1: You know, the Joker spends all of the second film
Speaker 1: trying to make Batman break the one rule. Except that
Speaker 1: kind of means nothing because Batman breaks that rule constantly. Literally,
Speaker 1: thirty seconds after making the rule, he blows up a building, yeah,
Speaker 1: full full of people, And I'm sorry, and you know,
Speaker 1: we can have an ethical discussion about this, which is great.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I don't buy into his wishy washy thing at the
Speaker 1: end where he's like, well, no, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: kill you, Raza Gore, but I don't have to save
Speaker 1: you on this train that I've broken the brakes on
Speaker 1: and bombed the track out, so you'll definitely die.
Speaker 2: So it's not me murdering you. Yeah, this is your fault.
Speaker 2: You did this, except that I did everything to stop
Speaker 2: you from.
Speaker 1: The implication being if someone got in their car and
Speaker 1: I went and like blew out, so they were crossing
Speaker 1: the q E two bridge and I blew the q
Speaker 1: E two bridge, at I ain't killed anyone. It's all
Speaker 1: the people's fault for getting in their cars.
Speaker 2: That actually might not be an inconsistency because in this
Speaker 2: film before the before Razugle is even back while he's
Speaker 2: doing his batmanning, there's bits where he's in the tumbline,
Speaker 2: for like he runs over the front and the side
Speaker 2: of cop cars, crushing them, and we see the inside
Speaker 2: afterwards where the cop who clearly would be dead is
Speaker 2: sort of sort of leaned over his partners partner off
Speaker 2: at the time. Yeah, and he's just like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what's that. You're like his mouse? Yeah, and you're just
Speaker 2: like So he doesn't care if someone dies by accident
Speaker 2: while he's doing his batmanning. That doesn't break his rule.
Speaker 2: He's real wishy washy. Recklessness doesn't count. But here's the
Speaker 2: thing where it does break it. Okay, even if recklessness
Speaker 2: didn't count. He doesn't kill razal Gare via recklessness. It's
Speaker 2: by choice.
Speaker 1: It made me very glad that I actually saw Dark
Speaker 1: Knight first, because I actually think if you watch all
Speaker 1: three in order, Dark Knight loses a little bit of
Speaker 1: impact because of this.
Speaker 2: Why because he's already broken.
Speaker 1: The Joker is acting like it would be this monumental
Speaker 1: thing for Batman to break his rule. But he's broken
Speaker 1: it fifty fucking times. He's got he's got a death
Speaker 1: list way longer than the Jokers. Joker kills like six
Speaker 1: people in that movie, the peas he shoots at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and the guy who puts the phone bombing and blows them,
Speaker 1: and he kills Rachel Dawes, don't he Yeah, so he
Speaker 1: kills like seven people and burns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't kill him though it doesn't kill him,
Speaker 2: but burns. If we're doing technicalities, I don't have to say.
Speaker 2: I don't have to, doesn't he imagine gets that's a
Speaker 2: great mone That's a fucking great moment. To be fair,
Speaker 2: none of the villains in there have a moment like that.
Speaker 2: There's some good moments for the villains, but there's nothing
Speaker 2: that good the Joker had not only that moment as well.
Speaker 2: There's where the second one I think does feel more
Speaker 2: focused is around its villains, because it still has Scarecrow momentarily,
Speaker 2: and it still has the Falcone family momentarily, but we
Speaker 2: know it's about the Joker. The Joker is not secondhanded
Speaker 2: at any point during the movie. And you get, as
Speaker 2: I say, those moments like it, how about a magic
Speaker 2: trick with a pencil. You also get the bit where
Speaker 2: he goes we can have tryouts, and you also have
Speaker 2: the amazing bit where they where they've got him. He's arrested,
Speaker 2: he's in the prison, he's in the jail cell because
Speaker 2: being interrogated and Batman comes in. Batman's got all the
Speaker 2: power and loses it all immediately. Yeah, And like there's
Speaker 2: there's never a point despite the amount of power that
Speaker 2: he has, there's never a point where raz Al Ghoul ever,
Speaker 2: actually he really gets Bruce Wayne or Batman on the
Speaker 2: back foot. The one time he does is when he
Speaker 2: turns up a Wayne manner and blows it up. But
Speaker 2: even then it doesn't feel the same. There's never that
Speaker 2: gravitas to the script that really you know where you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: fuck you, Ras, you know, and it clearly Ras is
Speaker 2: an evil bastard because he's trying to make everyone go
Speaker 2: dou lally. Razogul's plan also doesn't work because his whole
Speaker 2: thing is well, we've got to you know, wash away
Speaker 2: this in and part of that is no matter what
Speaker 2: your crime, even if you you're a pickpocket, you deserve
Speaker 2: death or some sort of suffering because you have committed
Speaker 2: a crime, and committing any crime is bad. But his
Speaker 2: plan will kill and make children kill because it's gonna
Speaker 2: drive everyone nuts. So you're gonna get innocence, committing suicide,
Speaker 2: getting murdered, maybe turning murderous because you've made them all
Speaker 2: go mental. And you're like, well, that seems to go
Speaker 2: against your whole ethical year.
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that you sit there the
Speaker 1: whole time and they're going, yes, every time a city
Speaker 1: becomes too evil. He literally implies that every time a
Speaker 1: city gets out of control and too evil, they go
Speaker 1: and wipe it off the face of the earth.
Speaker 2: Cool. Don't remember you being in Berlin in nineteen thirty nine.
Speaker 2: We let that one go. We were a bit late
Speaker 2: to the party. We're all a bit drunk. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: know what you mean that they're not. I'm sorry, I know.
Speaker 1: And again I know the comic bros Might come for me,
Speaker 1: but is just not as iconic as the Joker, Like
Speaker 1: he literally isn't because the Joker is Batman's arching nemesis.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't even have the problem with ras our
Speaker 1: Gaul being a quote unquote normal guy. There's none of
Speaker 1: the iconography. And he's not even dressed like he is
Speaker 1: in the comics because the way he's dressed in the
Speaker 1: comics would be culturally appropriationist, because he wears like Asian
Speaker 1: style robes that.
Speaker 2: Would have worked for the rajah Ghoul that if you
Speaker 2: mckn watton, Yeah, yeah, and I think that's Dave liam
Speaker 2: Neeson play it for some reason. Yeah see, there was
Speaker 2: no reason they couldn't have had Ken Watton arbo.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And because they're doing the realistic thing, they've taken
Speaker 1: away the defining trait of ras al.
Speaker 2: Gaul, which is he can't die, right. Ras Al Gall.
Speaker 1: In the comics has these things called Leviathan Paul, not
Speaker 1: Leviathan Lazarus Pitts, right, and basically every time he dies,
Speaker 1: he just gets reborn again. Oh, okay, but you can't
Speaker 1: do that in the Noble and trilogy. I honestly think
Speaker 1: ras Al Gare was a really poor choice of villain,
Speaker 1: and I always have. I've always thought that the biggest
Speaker 1: failing of Batman Begins is the choice of ras Al Gaull.
Speaker 2: As the villain. Yeah, you know, what they should have done,
Speaker 2: what they should have done. And I noticed easy to
Speaker 2: say this, And also there'll be people going, how do
Speaker 2: you question Christopher Nolan? But the truth of the matter
Speaker 2: is it should have started off how it started. He's
Speaker 2: with ras alh Gaull, he's getting trained. We get the
Speaker 2: whole bit. He sets the thing on fire shore it
Speaker 2: breaks his one rule straight away, but let's pretend he
Speaker 2: didn't and escapes, right. The reason that ras Algall comes
Speaker 2: up with the plan to attack Gotham at that point
Speaker 2: is because it's like, well, we've got Bruce Wayne. It's
Speaker 2: the easy way in, so we can punish that group
Speaker 2: or that nation of people easily because we've got Bruce
Speaker 2: Wayne to help us get in. When Bruce Wayne then
Speaker 2: burns the shit down and runs away, we then don't
Speaker 2: come back to ras Al Gaull until a later film.
Speaker 2: You could have built up. Instead of Tarli Algall, you
Speaker 2: could have had Ra's al Gall helping Bayne with his
Speaker 2: communist takeover, because that's how the League of Shadows are
Speaker 2: going to try and take over Gotham. That might have
Speaker 2: worked better than shoehorning Tarlier Algall from the but fuck nowhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other thing you could do as well is you
Speaker 2: could with you with your final act, because he becomes
Speaker 2: essentially a nahing henchman for the entire trilogy after this.
Speaker 2: You could have made Scarecrow the main villain who's trying
Speaker 2: to screw over Gotham, because it makes sense. He's a
Speaker 2: bit nuts, So him coming up with the nutty plan
Speaker 2: to make everyone nuts because then he can inter them
Speaker 2: all and continue his experiment, I do makes more sense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do think Scarecrow should have been the main villain.
Speaker 1: And if you're insistent on having multiple comic book villains
Speaker 1: in it, and you're like, now, I get no one wants,
Speaker 1: you still would have.
Speaker 2: Done because you would have introduced with ras el Ghuler. Anyway,
Speaker 2: you would have still had Scarecrow, and you'd still have
Speaker 2: had Falcone, So you've still got to be fair. I'd
Speaker 2: rather never havel in it.
Speaker 1: Personally, I always you need the training bit, I know,
Speaker 1: but I've and this is purely I'm going to sound
Speaker 1: that such a wok kant. I've always found it a
Speaker 1: little cultural appropriation e the idea that this Asian legion
Speaker 1: of liners is what trains Batman. I've always been a
Speaker 1: bit like, oh so the rich white billionaire goes there
Speaker 1: and larns.
Speaker 2: All their tricks.
Speaker 1: And I think the thing that it isn't helped because
Speaker 1: of Liam Neeson. If you're still with ken Wattaobby, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel quite so bad.
Speaker 2: I think that's the thing is that. I think it's
Speaker 2: the choices that are made. The fact that ken Wotton
Speaker 2: Arby isn't really raj al Ghul is just a figurehead
Speaker 2: that is, you know, put in place to detract from
Speaker 2: Liam Neeson. That doesn't help. The other thing that doesn't
Speaker 2: help is that the League of Shadows seems to be
Speaker 2: a bunch of people of all different ethnicities. Because the
Speaker 2: what you could have played is that he's paid his
Speaker 2: way in to being in the League of Shadows because
Speaker 2: he thinks it will get him where he wants to be.
Speaker 2: The League of Shadows don't really want him, but they
Speaker 2: take him on because they're like, well, with this money,
Speaker 2: we can do what the fuck we want, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's like, then that way you can
Speaker 2: you can have your kind of appropriation in a way,
Speaker 2: but you can have your cake and eat it, because
Speaker 2: it's like, well, this Asian group of ninja's I've gone right,
Speaker 2: will take the money, will train this one guy, and
Speaker 2: then he can fuck off because he's not really gonna
Speaker 2: be he's not really one of us. And then you
Speaker 2: bring what an arby back for the third one. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's that. I mean again, always easy to say in
Speaker 2: hindsight because at this point they didn't have a second
Speaker 2: and a third film plotted out, no, allegedly. I do
Speaker 2: find it really weird when after we made the second one,
Speaker 2: at least he was like, yeah, we had no plans
Speaker 2: to do a third. I'm like, I don't really believe it,
Speaker 2: because we all know that realistically, if you've done a third,
Speaker 2: the Joker would have been in it, and that had
Speaker 2: to get changed because of the death of eath Legend. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I don't never I never know how much stock
Speaker 2: to put into that. I can understand if you just
Speaker 2: do it as a one off but no one ever
Speaker 2: does adeology. No, so not not really. No, the closest
Speaker 2: you got was Killed Bill, and that was only one film.
Speaker 2: That's one film. It certainly is going to be now
Speaker 2: where they're rereleasing it. But yeah, that's one film where
Speaker 2: someone overindulged himself and made it too long. So that's
Speaker 2: not the same.
Speaker 1: But let me say some good things about that Man
Speaker 1: begins something I've been quite negative so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's we're being a bit unjust because it's
Speaker 2: actually not a bad film.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's not a bad thing. And I also
Speaker 1: must say it's not one.
Speaker 2: It's not one I ever rushed to rewatch. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not on heavy rotation and Dark Nighties.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if I was like ranking Batman movies, this
Speaker 1: one probably sits like around the middle for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think definitely Dark Knight and Dark Night Rise as
Speaker 1: I prefer to this one, even with the flow. Dark
Speaker 1: Night Rises is a very flawed film. There are some
Speaker 1: ridiculous moments in Dark Knight Rises.
Speaker 2: It has more flaws than this film, but it also
Speaker 2: has a lot more benefit higher highs but lower lowers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I prefer the to Tim Burton ones.
Speaker 2: To this one as well. Yeah, Batman and Batman Returns.
Speaker 2: I find myself going back to Batman Forever more than
Speaker 2: this one. Yeah, and it's not because Batman Forever is
Speaker 2: a better film. It's not, but it's kind of for
Speaker 2: me a bit more enjoyable. Yeah, this one, this feels
Speaker 2: a little it's funny.
Speaker 1: There's a line in it where Scarecrow says to Batman,
Speaker 1: you seem like a man who takes himself too seriously
Speaker 1: well dressed is inear But that's kind of what this
Speaker 1: film feels like. Sometimes there's some bit it's a bit like, okay, guys,
Speaker 1: come on you. I know you're trying to do a
Speaker 1: realistic on but you're still doing a fucking superhero film
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Is a man dressed?
Speaker 1: Is a fucking bat Have some fun with it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, which I think they do in Dark Night
Speaker 1: and Dark Night Risers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the thing as well. Yeah, because Batman
Speaker 2: is called out by the Joker and by Baying quite frequently.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always remember the bit in Dark Night Risers
Speaker 1: when Catwoman disappears on him and he goes, So.
Speaker 2: That's what that's like. Yeah. Yeah, here's the other thing
Speaker 2: as well. And again, there was no way to know
Speaker 2: when they made this film, so it's not a floor
Speaker 2: of the film itself. But whenever I rewatch Dark Knight,
Speaker 2: and I frequently rewatch it without watching this one, I
Speaker 2: don't really feel like I'm missing out on anything. No,
Speaker 2: I never rewatched this one, to be honest. If I
Speaker 2: ever rewatch, I'd just do Dark Night and Dark Night Rise.
Speaker 2: The reality is, if you look at the first Batman film,
Speaker 2: but Tim Burton, that didn't really a build up either.
Speaker 2: You don't really seem trained to become Batman. No, he's
Speaker 2: already back.
Speaker 1: Literally, he says I'm Batman in the first two minutes
Speaker 1: of the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah so, and it's not like we do get flashbacks,
Speaker 2: because we get the flashbacks to his parents murder, but
Speaker 2: it's not like the whole thing of right now, how
Speaker 2: did he become Batman? How did he grow from this
Speaker 2: boy into the man? Like? Who cares? He's he was
Speaker 2: that boy, he's now this man? What's the story now
Speaker 2: he's this man? And yeah, so you just huluop hlop,
Speaker 2: you polvo over the plot thread. And this film feels
Speaker 2: a bit erroneous or not erroneous. This film feels a
Speaker 2: bit unnecessary because of that, But for what it is,
Speaker 2: I really like how the plot escalates. I like that
Speaker 2: we see Bruce Manner. I'm a bit disappointed actually we
Speaker 2: don't see more of Bruce Manner in the sequels, Bruce
Speaker 2: Banner in it. I'm thinking of Bruce Banner and I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but it's Bruce Manner. But it's Bruce is way Jesus
Speaker 2: Christ Rory. My brain is not braining melting. But no.
Speaker 1: So things I did like about this film though, There
Speaker 1: is some really good cinematography in it. I really like
Speaker 1: the even though it's a little bit cheesy. The shot
Speaker 1: where all the bats come in is really cool and
Speaker 1: you get to see him as Batman just surrounded by bats.
Speaker 1: I was a bit like, that's kind of cool. It's
Speaker 1: like iconography wise, it's quite cool. Yes, the first bit
Speaker 1: where he's when he first becomes Batman and he's taking
Speaker 1: out the guys at the shipping yard. I really like
Speaker 1: the way they do it like a horror movie, where
Speaker 1: like one of them looks up at season and they're
Speaker 1: going like, oh my god, oh my god, and then
Speaker 1: the other one looks up and that's when you see
Speaker 1: Batman perched there and he just drops down.
Speaker 2: I liked that. I do agree.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's much chemistry between him and Katie Holmes,
Speaker 1: but I'll be honest, I didn't think there was much
Speaker 1: chemistry between him and Maggie gill and Hall in the
Speaker 1: sequel either.
Speaker 2: No, but there's a lot less opportunity for them in
Speaker 2: this one. They're really trying to build that Peter Parker
Speaker 2: and so name Milton Keynes romance Mary Jane. That's it's
Speaker 2: name of drug and because it's weird in it, Mary Jane. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're really trying to build that Peter Parker Mary Jane romance,
Speaker 2: but weirdly so just for my Christian Bale for a minute. Then,
Speaker 2: and he's lack of chemistry.
Speaker 1: I know there's a thing on the internet at the
Speaker 1: minute where a lot of people claim that bail. There's
Speaker 1: some retroactive stuff where people are saying Bale's not actually
Speaker 1: that good, right, the thing is in a weird way.
Speaker 1: I think his lack of chemistry. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: this was done on purpose. It might just be one
Speaker 1: of those happy accident things, but I kind of think
Speaker 1: he's lack of chemistry with the with the leading ladies
Speaker 1: in these movies helps make me believe he's Batman more.
Speaker 2: Because it's, oh, yeah, this is a guy who is
Speaker 2: really damaged and doesn't know how to relate to people. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because which for why he would dresses a bat and
Speaker 2: go beat people up. Yeah, he's a batman. Yeah. It
Speaker 2: also aids his Bruce Wayne persona because when he's going
Speaker 2: out and he's like in this film, he brings two
Speaker 2: hot girls to some sort of restaurant and then he
Speaker 2: had they start stripping off and going into the swimming pool,
Speaker 2: which isn't allowed, and so he joins them well while
Speaker 2: he's having fun and you know, pissing about the reality
Speaker 2: is that's an act he's put in on to cover
Speaker 2: up and pretend that Bruce Wayne isn't Batman. He's like,
Speaker 2: you know, just some twat spending all his money. But
Speaker 2: the detachment works for that as well, so because you
Speaker 2: wouldn't be a deeply emotional person necessarily to do that.
Speaker 2: And it also aids the scene where, in order to
Speaker 2: save everyone before the manner blows up, he basically insults
Speaker 2: them all. Yeah, you know, he goes thanksful, Yeah, drink
Speaker 2: my wine. There's always three loaders when you're rich, piss
Speaker 2: off basically and everyone leaves. It kind of aids that
Speaker 2: because there is that distance that people will allow rich
Speaker 2: people to have in the hopes as clingers on basically
Speaker 2: to try and basically go, oh, well maybe they'll favor me,
Speaker 2: and you know they'll do me favors or will give
Speaker 2: me mine. Well, it's funny, you know.
Speaker 1: On letterboxed loads of people are cracking jokes about Patrick Bateman, Yes,
Speaker 1: which obviously famously is a role that Christian Bale played
Speaker 1: in American Psycho. But I do get it, like there
Speaker 1: is a little bit of that Patrick Bateman detachment when
Speaker 1: he's Bruce Wayne that I think works yeah for the role.
Speaker 1: So one of the reviews we read said that the
Speaker 1: ending action sequence on the monorail doesn't hold up.
Speaker 2: What do you think about that? I agree, the CGI
Speaker 2: in general in this film doesn't really hold up, thankfully,
Speaker 2: it doesn't have a lot of it, but the monorail
Speaker 2: is entirely CGI, so when you're watching that sequence, it
Speaker 2: doesn't really hold up the whole thing. I like the
Speaker 2: fight on the train between ros al Ghul and Batman.
Speaker 2: I think that works quite well. A little less quick
Speaker 2: cutting would be better, but it's quite entire a tight
Speaker 2: en closed space, so maybe there was limitations with that,
Speaker 2: at least in terms of staging, because obviously it's not
Speaker 2: a real location, so they could pull the wall away.
Speaker 2: The I didn't feel like the stakes were really there. No,
Speaker 2: it didn't feel like you need a ticking clock, and
Speaker 2: we technically had one, but we were never told the
Speaker 2: time on the clock because the clock was how long
Speaker 2: it would take for the train to get to the
Speaker 2: main station, so that the microwave emitter could vaporize all
Speaker 2: the water and make every them go great also, but
Speaker 2: they never went that's going to be there in two minutes.
Speaker 1: On the microwave radiator thing and it evaporates all the
Speaker 1: water underground on it. Yeah, we did it, notaged to
Speaker 1: evaporate all the people near it, because people are seventy
Speaker 1: five percent water. Shouldn't everyone be like Fano snapped out of.
Speaker 2: Existence or the reality is should have shrivel like raisins instantly,
Speaker 2: just like so anyone in the main blast area would
Speaker 2: be it wouldn't have an explosion per se, but like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, anyone in the immediate area
Speaker 2: would most likely be vaporized in some way because it
Speaker 2: would affect the water within you, I would have thought,
Speaker 2: but they'd be desiccated. Yeah. Well yeah, so the thing
Speaker 2: is outside of the entire area, Maybe not, because the
Speaker 2: idea is that it raises the water there, the toxins
Speaker 2: go in and then it's spread in the air.
Speaker 1: But when they are on this literally rather than all
Speaker 1: of his henchmen are literally stood right next to it
Speaker 1: when they turn it on, and all they do is
Speaker 1: put little.
Speaker 2: Gas masks on. I don't think it started doing the
Speaker 2: main thing yet. It doesn't do that until it turns
Speaker 2: it on and all the steam grates suddenly explode. Oh
Speaker 2: I forgot about that, don't they? And I remember watching
Speaker 2: that and just going shouldn't they all die?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I can't imagine. Just yeah, it wouldn't do any favors,
Speaker 2: to be fair. This is something that was also wrong
Speaker 2: with the Dark Knight Rises, so with this one. The
Speaker 2: main issue with a microwave is that it requires a
Speaker 2: huge amount of energy. There's a weapon called a maser,
Speaker 2: which we actually have we've used. It utilizes frequencyed so
Speaker 2: it was microwave waves, but it now utilizes sort of
Speaker 2: sound and lasers. But it's still called a maser, and
Speaker 2: to fire one of those only once, maybe a few times,
Speaker 2: requires the amount of power you would normally use to
Speaker 2: power a city for a week. Right, So this box
Speaker 2: they're traveling around has to have all the emitter capability
Speaker 2: in it, plus the battery power because it doesn't plug
Speaker 2: into anything, so it has to have the battery power
Speaker 2: to emit that level of power.
Speaker 1: Well, that's my other plot hole, because I'm fairly certain
Speaker 1: and I might have misheard a fully old hands on.
Speaker 2: The same thing in rises, because the idea in rises
Speaker 2: is that there's going to be they've built a nuclear
Speaker 2: fusion reactor that they're going to drive to a main
Speaker 2: location and detonate. But and that would I think I
Speaker 2: think that was going to toxify water. But if nothing else,
Speaker 2: just detonate. Batmanaster used the scarub thing to fly out
Speaker 2: to sea. But that also doesn't work because nuclear fusion
Speaker 2: reactors don't explode nuclear feu. We don't have nuclear fusion. No,
Speaker 2: we have nuclear fission, which does explode. We have nuclear
Speaker 2: fusion if it wants the mix is wrong or it's
Speaker 2: exposed to air. Basically, that would mean that there's not
Speaker 2: enough containment to keep essentially the power of a sun going,
Speaker 2: because you'd yeah, well, because all the hydrogen would leak. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you need hydrogen highly condensed. That's how the sun operates.
Speaker 2: It's just a rock covered in hydrogen and like. So
Speaker 2: if you can't keep that contained enough with enough pressure,
Speaker 2: it's not gonna work. So it wouldn't once it detonates.
Speaker 2: It literally got oh well, that was my other thing.
Speaker 1: So and again I might have this wrong because I
Speaker 1: did have a bit of a sugar crash while watching
Speaker 1: this film because I hate an easter egg. I am
Speaker 1: fairly certain they said that the microwave emitted is nuclear powered.
Speaker 1: It has a reactor in it, in which, first of all,
Speaker 1: getting a nuclear reactor that small whatever our bikes, it's.
Speaker 2: A super film.
Speaker 1: But when he crashes the train, should that not explode
Speaker 1: and he radiate the narrows?
Speaker 2: Yep? And you know it can't be fusion because they
Speaker 2: say that nuclear fusions first rises, unless this is another one,
Speaker 2: because it actually looks quite similar, So maybe it's another
Speaker 2: one that's fusion based. But again, if you've solved nuclear fusion,
Speaker 2: you're a multi billionaire and you never need to power
Speaker 2: anything ever. Again, so.
Speaker 1: What about the batsuit because Craig said he thought this
Speaker 1: was the better batsuit, and I have seen that written
Speaker 1: online a few times as well, people saying this is
Speaker 1: a better batsuit than the one that is in a
Speaker 1: lot of people think the one in the next two
Speaker 1: films looks a bit too much like a bit too
Speaker 1: much like paintball gear.
Speaker 2: So I prefer the one that follows this one because
Speaker 2: it looks much more practical, and it is a lot
Speaker 2: more practical. However, I will admit the one in this
Speaker 2: film fits the comic book persona of Batman more so. Again,
Speaker 2: if you're after something more realistic, then the following suit
Speaker 2: is better, But if you're after something that's more comic
Speaker 2: book accurate, this is the one to go with. To
Speaker 2: be fair, this does feature in Dark Knight. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: first action sequences in this suit, and then he asks
Speaker 2: Alfred to develop him a better one. So it's not
Speaker 2: it's not left here, but it kind of. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: doesn't have any the next one.
Speaker 1: I do like the next one, but I think it
Speaker 1: looks a little over designed. Okay, this one is much
Speaker 1: more simple, like I said, so it feels a lot
Speaker 1: more comic act even though it's the comic he wears
Speaker 1: actual span Dex because you know, it's a comic book
Speaker 1: from the nineteen.
Speaker 2: Forties, and was the obsession with spandex man like with
Speaker 2: the colored pants on the outside. At what point that was?
Speaker 2: Because it was based on strong men, wonn't it. I
Speaker 2: have no idea how strong men used to do that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: strong men in pants with rippling muscles, and they're, well,
Speaker 2: let's do a suit that's highly colored less. I think
Speaker 2: I think it was based on wrestler types. Well that
Speaker 2: it's the same sort of thing, because at the time
Speaker 2: they were very similar. But yeah, wrestlers still wear that.
Speaker 2: Fucking look at my prays? Can I take something OUSEI
Speaker 2: I don't like in this whole trilogy.
Speaker 1: I think we might have talked about this in The
Speaker 1: Dark Knight, So I apologize I'm repeating. I I low
Speaker 1: key don't like the batmobile in this trilogy.
Speaker 2: But the top Tumbler, I don't mind it. It's not
Speaker 2: as iconic. I don't know, it's more practical. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think it has become iconic, actually, but because people still
Speaker 2: refer to it. But I know what you mean, Like
Speaker 2: the original Tim Burton Batmobile when it looked like a.
Speaker 2: I guess it looked more like a high speed car,
Speaker 2: whereas this doesn't look like a car. It is a
Speaker 2: military tank. Yeah, it's a converted tank.
Speaker 1: After it runs over the cops that you were talking about.
Speaker 1: When he calls it in, she goes, we've got a
Speaker 1: black tang.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And to be honest, the something I liked about
Speaker 2: the trilogy actually is in the Dark Night, the Tumbler
Speaker 2: becomes a bit of a focus for a short bit
Speaker 2: because you get the guy at Wayne Enterprises who goes,
Speaker 2: why is He sees the batmobile, finds the plans for
Speaker 2: it in Wayne Enterprises, and then tries to blackmail Lucius
Speaker 2: Fox with it. So actually they do use the fact
Speaker 2: that it looks different. I think it is still iconic
Speaker 2: in that sense. But yeah, I know what you mean
Speaker 2: if you if you're picking a flavor of batmobile, I
Speaker 2: personally wouldn't go with one that looks like a military vehicle.
Speaker 2: But I can understand from a practicality standpoint it is
Speaker 2: the better design, but it's just not what i'd expect
Speaker 2: from a superhero. The eighty nine Batmobile I had as
Speaker 2: a toy as a kid. It looks cool all the time.
Speaker 1: If I was a kid when this one came out,
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine wanting that toy.
Speaker 2: No, And also because of the design of it, I
Speaker 2: can imagine that it's a much more breakable toy because
Speaker 2: it like the way that the wheels are situated in
Speaker 2: the gaps in between the main chassis, I can imagine
Speaker 2: that toy is actually not particularly sturdy, Whereas I know,
Speaker 2: you've got the fins that could snap off on the
Speaker 2: eighty nine to one, but in general, it's still a car.
Speaker 2: So it's got the ridiculously long nose as it. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: penis extensions, that's what it is. It's like the Peter
Speaker 2: Perfect car from Wacky Races, So badman, are you only
Speaker 2: like one inch last? No? No, look at look at
Speaker 2: my car.
Speaker 1: This car is ninety percent bonnet and only the actual car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like you'd imagine with an end with
Speaker 2: a bonnet that long, it must have a massive engine.
Speaker 2: But realistically, if you if you had an engine that huge,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't want it to be that long. Like the
Speaker 2: amount of weight that must add for no reason, unless
Speaker 2: that's storage space. You could just put his bags over
Speaker 2: night bags. Yeah. Robbin was in those films but he
Speaker 2: was still in the car. Yeah, stay in the car. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's the car, right, Dick the car. Anything else to
Speaker 2: say about Batman mcginnss Not really. I thought it was
Speaker 2: a good film. It's you know, as I've said before,
Speaker 2: you pick your flavor. If you like more realistic, you
Speaker 2: don't need to watch this one. You can start with Batman. Sorry,
Speaker 2: you can start with Dark Knight Rises. You can start
Speaker 2: with the Dark Knight and watch Dark Knight Rises and
Speaker 2: enjoy that. But if you want to see something within
Speaker 2: that framework that's a little close to the comics, and
Speaker 2: this is a good one to watch, and if you
Speaker 2: prefer things that are close to the comics, and this
Speaker 2: is probably the best of the trilogy for you. But personally,
Speaker 2: I'm a Dark Knight man.
Speaker 1: And probably the majority of people are except for Crank here, Crag.
Speaker 1: So well done, Craig Crag.
Speaker 2: I hope you.
Speaker 1: Enjoyed listening to us talk about Batman McGinn's. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for writing Thank you so much for writing
Speaker 1: in and requesting that we cover it. We will be
Speaker 1: back next week with another listener request. In the meantime,
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Speaker 1: so much for listening, and we'll be back next week
Speaker 1: with more Second Take Cinema