Speaker 1: I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
Speaker 1: and I have three kids.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 2: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 1: and victories that come with.
Speaker 2: It when coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 2: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1: This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 1: But you just heard me scream at my son in
Speaker 1: real time.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, we're in the same boat this weekend.
Speaker 2: We've both got kids. I just ran mine out of
Speaker 2: here because it's like, what three o'clock in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: This is when Brecken has decided that he needs to
Speaker 2: eat lunch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what the noise I heard when you got
Speaker 1: on here? I can't even it? Is that what lunch
Speaker 1: sounds like over there?
Speaker 2: Well, because he's using the air fryer, so it was
Speaker 2: like yes, ding yeah, and yeah, he's got stuff in
Speaker 2: the microwave, like and it's funny he had like it
Speaker 2: was basically three different types of carbs, okay, good, yeah, pretzels,
Speaker 2: rolls and pretzel bites exactly.
Speaker 1: Car bloating for the race he's not doing exactly. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: let's get into it. Anybody has anybody seen the movie
Speaker 1: Book Smart.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was gonna say, you're about to
Speaker 2: hang me out to dry a hundred books.
Speaker 1: The two friends have this thing where if you say
Speaker 1: this one word, the person has to show up. The
Speaker 1: only problem is that and the word in the movie
Speaker 1: is moulala after that woman. I think mulala.
Speaker 3: Is that what it's?
Speaker 1: I think, so, I think that's like the basis of it.
Speaker 1: But in the movie, like if I say that, you
Speaker 1: gotta go. Yeah, But the problem is I've already used
Speaker 1: it on you a couple of times, and you've never
Speaker 1: used it on me, so you were like, dude, you're
Speaker 1: killing me. But I mulala at her yesterday and she
Speaker 1: still did a cup.
Speaker 2: I know, and I do feel bad, but I really
Speaker 2: truly had to be like I cannot, like I had.
Speaker 3: I was driving back from it.
Speaker 2: I was in Atlanta Thursday Friday, went to the Braves
Speaker 2: game finally I've been wanting to go, which honestly like
Speaker 2: perfectly aligned because Ted Turner and Bobby Cox just passed away.
Speaker 2: So it was like, good for my soul like I
Speaker 2: was such a Braves fan growing up in Ted Turner
Speaker 2: with CNN all the things.
Speaker 3: So anyway, but I was like driving back there, had to.
Speaker 2: Pick up this little rascal dog get my kids, and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been getting there until like well after
Speaker 2: four o'clock. My kids didn't want to go, like it's
Speaker 2: a whole thing.
Speaker 1: So that's a whole thing.
Speaker 3: Well I did make myself go, and you survived.
Speaker 1: I survived. But you know what's interesting is we got
Speaker 1: into a conversation there about doing like mushroom trips, and
Speaker 1: one person in particular was talking about a mushroom trip.
Speaker 1: She went on and the way the analogy she used that,
Speaker 1: so I've never done this, So anyone listening know that
Speaker 1: I'm reporting what somebody taught me, which is that she
Speaker 1: did a mushroom trip for like a reset. And she
Speaker 1: said that the what she understands it as is this
Speaker 1: is how it works. If your brain and you're like
Speaker 1: nervous system is like a ski slope and you're always
Speaker 1: skiing down the same path. The grooves in that path
Speaker 1: get deeper and deeper and deeper until your nervous nervous
Speaker 1: system and your mindset just lives in that groove. It
Speaker 1: goes right back to that. Anything that happens back to
Speaker 1: the groove. Anything rough or shakes you up, you're back
Speaker 1: in the groove of that negative thinking, that nervous system,
Speaker 1: like anxiety. So when you do a trip, She's like,
Speaker 1: it just fills in the groove so that you can
Speaker 1: develop a new path down the mountain. And I thought
Speaker 1: that was, like that made sense to me. I don't
Speaker 1: totally understand how. I know there's science on it. Emory
Speaker 1: just released a study about it, Like I know it's real.
Speaker 1: I just am like, I really am so curious about it.
Speaker 1: I would be too paranoid and scared ever do it.
Speaker 1: But I am like fascinated by this idea of like
Speaker 1: resetting your nervous system, because I do feel like mine
Speaker 1: gets me in trouble. It makes me anxious, It makes
Speaker 1: me do things I would never normally do because my
Speaker 1: nervous system is right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I can't really speak to the whole
Speaker 2: mushroom things like my experience, like I've had like some
Speaker 2: chocolates or whatever. You know, it's just kind of made
Speaker 2: things like silly and funny. I haven't done like the
Speaker 2: ones that people talk about where they go on like
Speaker 2: a whole journey, and I'm like you, I feel apprehensive
Speaker 2: about it. I don't know that there's something about feeling
Speaker 2: really out of control and that sense that doesn't feel
Speaker 2: good to me.
Speaker 3: So but I know a lot of people say that
Speaker 3: it is very good.
Speaker 2: And I think as far as the nervous system reset,
Speaker 2: and I think that's kind of like what you and
Speaker 2: I have been really navigating that the last few years
Speaker 2: is just kind of like experiencing these life things that
Speaker 2: we'd never experienced in our entire lives. The emotional upheaval,
Speaker 2: the ups and downs that being like so in love
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: Being completely thrown off balance.
Speaker 2: Like there's something to be said about like like we say,
Speaker 2: the body keeps the score, these situations are living in
Speaker 2: our nervous systems, and that's like the most accessible to
Speaker 2: us right now. It's the freshest. So it's really like
Speaker 2: you're saying, it's like you end up like doing and
Speaker 2: saying things. You're like, God, I'm like, I'm losing my
Speaker 2: mind over here. I'm favrowing it, you know.
Speaker 1: Favrowing it. I'm still favrowing by the way, But you
Speaker 1: know that I have a new good friend of ours
Speaker 1: if she's listening. Full thank you to you guys. Actually
Speaker 1: it's two friends. They gave me the advice to have
Speaker 1: like a fake email account, so instead of like journaling,
Speaker 1: you just write to this email account. I created a
Speaker 1: new account, and you just write to this email account.
Speaker 1: Give the person the password if they want to see
Speaker 1: what you're writing about, but otherwise you just right rite.
Speaker 1: Brain dump, brain dump. Yeah, this came up for me.
Speaker 1: This came up, and so I've been doing it every.
Speaker 2: Day, Like I think that's a really good idea, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like one of those therapy tools of
Speaker 2: like writing the letter to someone and just really letting
Speaker 2: it all out there.
Speaker 3: But you know, you're never going to send the letter,
Speaker 3: Like this is sending the letter, but this is sending
Speaker 3: the letter. So you're giving the person the person.
Speaker 1: The person access, but it doesn't go to their email.
Speaker 1: It goes to this new email and they can check
Speaker 1: it if they want, or they can ignore it completely.
Speaker 1: And I know what you guys are wondering, Hash she
Speaker 1: checked it.
Speaker 3: Hash, she checked it. I'm gonna guess no.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to let that just hang in the
Speaker 1: balance and I'll tell you offline well.
Speaker 2: And also I think the other thing to kind of
Speaker 2: consider in these situations and that I've had to like
Speaker 2: kind of learn that sometimes you have to sit with it,
Speaker 2: you know, and that other person.
Speaker 3: Needs to sit with it totally.
Speaker 2: And our brains have a way of going to that
Speaker 2: space of like this is the end all be all,
Speaker 2: this is how it's going to be forever, and it's not.
Speaker 1: No, it literally isn't. And things do open up, and
Speaker 1: there are moments of lucidity, like where I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm actually really okay, yeah, like I'm
Speaker 1: and then there's moments that come over me where I'm
Speaker 1: like what the fuck, Like this doesn't feel good. I
Speaker 1: think yesterday one of the people that were there with us,
Speaker 1: she and I kind of had a moment where you know,
Speaker 1: you're We were at Kirkwood spring flaying. It's a total blast.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite bands is called the ham Strings,
Speaker 1: and they sing like great cover music. They were playing
Speaker 1: and when I first got there, I'd had one beer,
Speaker 1: I was getting ready to get my second beer. Ham
Speaker 1: Strings were starting. I was feeling really good, like and
Speaker 1: I forgot for a minute, like I was I was
Speaker 1: so happy. Everybody's laying on a blanket, we're having drinks.
Speaker 1: But then it's like, as the day wore on, I
Speaker 1: started to like notice all the families and their kids
Speaker 1: and my I don't know, she and I both were like,
Speaker 1: this is kind of like it's kind of triggering and
Speaker 1: that it's like this was supposed to be what I
Speaker 1: would be doing with my family or with my partner,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's kids running all over. My kids
Speaker 1: would have been there, They've been here where you've have
Speaker 1: a soccer game, but I don't know, it did bring
Speaker 1: up for me that not only the thing I'm going
Speaker 1: through right now, but then also like you're grieving this
Speaker 1: life that you thought you were going to live, and
Speaker 1: even though you walked away from it, now it's front
Speaker 1: and center in my face in my neighborhood. Just this
Speaker 1: is what I walked away from. These moms, this group,
Speaker 1: this social you know, the moms and the dads are
Speaker 1: all meeting up to like with their couple friends and
Speaker 1: like throwing the ball and hanging out. And it's like
Speaker 1: that's not going to be my life ever, because I'm
Speaker 1: never going to share children with the partner.
Speaker 2: Gat yeah, well yeah, I mean that that part for sure,
Speaker 2: But I think I think right now in our stage
Speaker 2: of life where the kids are getting like a little older,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: They're they're not as around as much. You know.
Speaker 2: That's like that's the thing for me, like with this weekend.
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons why I didn't come up
Speaker 2: there is like our summer is about to be slammed.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like they both they're both in Brecon's doing
Speaker 2: three different camps. Kaylin's doing swim teams, She's training for
Speaker 2: a trath launch, She's going to Canada.
Speaker 3: Like there's just so many things.
Speaker 2: That we have on our plate right now, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is our last weekend before like the chaos ensues,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's like I want that time with
Speaker 2: them because it's it's flying by right now. Like I
Speaker 2: invested a lot of time and energy into that person
Speaker 2: and like kind of building what I thought was going
Speaker 2: to be a future and a family and that person
Speaker 2: that I go to these like festivals with and events,
Speaker 2: and then that's not what happened. And so and like
Speaker 2: I'm you know, going to events here in Peachtree City.
Speaker 2: I went to one like a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 2: they do this like night market thing. I've never been
Speaker 2: and really only went because I wanted to go and
Speaker 2: see my kids and give them a hug because it
Speaker 2: wasn't like my night to have them. But I was
Speaker 2: like there, and I'm like, I just I feel so
Speaker 2: like I don't fit in in this space, Like I'm
Speaker 2: there alone, Like there's a billion like families, straight family,
Speaker 2: he's at that, and I'm just.
Speaker 3: Like God like kind of sucks.
Speaker 2: And so I think there is like, yeah, that deeper
Speaker 2: grief that continues to happen over this because like you know,
Speaker 2: closing in on eight years of going through this being
Speaker 2: divorce and being like wow, and I really thought like
Speaker 2: everything was going to happen really quickly and sert why
Speaker 2: that like.
Speaker 3: It doesn't fit. Okay, let's try this one. Let's try
Speaker 3: this one, this one. Fuck now, I'm out of time,
Speaker 3: is what it feels like. But I know I'm not
Speaker 3: out of time.
Speaker 1: I remember when I was a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1: I was a stay at home mom for almost fifteen
Speaker 1: For fifteen years until Chris and I got divorced, I
Speaker 1: never worked. I hung out with the same group of
Speaker 1: moms that also stayed at home. We got together with
Speaker 1: our kids all the time, and the kids were in school,
Speaker 1: we were still doing stuff together. But I remember that too,
Speaker 1: being like I had my my tight group, but there
Speaker 1: was like a bigger group at large. And I remember
Speaker 1: being told back then that like moms are also a
Speaker 1: tough demographic, they're not like they're so focused on their
Speaker 1: kids sometimes that I think they don't always include people
Speaker 1: they're not. I've heard moms say some pretty shitty things
Speaker 1: about other people's kids, or the mom or the way
Speaker 1: they raise their kids. Sometimes the odd man out as
Speaker 1: the mom. You're already not included. Now you're coming out,
Speaker 1: and now you're really not included, and not because of
Speaker 1: any fault of your own. It's just you're not a
Speaker 1: couple anymore. So with the kids and you, who are
Speaker 1: they inviting the dad with the kids? They should though,
Speaker 1: but they don't. Like I remember when I was married,
Speaker 1: I remember now the single moms with their kids. I
Speaker 1: don't remember including them.
Speaker 3: I knew any single moms. There aren't single moms here
Speaker 3: like there.
Speaker 1: Were a few down here. But I just remember they
Speaker 1: were working all the time, so they didn't have the
Speaker 1: same relationships because they were gone versus like I was
Speaker 1: well entrenched because these were my friends all day. Well,
Speaker 1: you're at work, we're having lunch, we're working out, we're
Speaker 1: walking with our babies. I mean, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: That hit me yesterday of like wow, life went on
Speaker 1: and I got off the train and I'm happy I did.
Speaker 1: But I got off the train and they're all still
Speaker 1: on it doing great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean that's surface level doing great. It is,
Speaker 2: so you don't you really don't know what's what all.
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I always trying to remind myself of.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't know what these other people are
Speaker 2: struggling with that I have no idea about, you know,
Speaker 2: and you know, I think it's all this to say,
Speaker 2: it's like these layers of grief that continue to happen,
Speaker 2: these layers of things that we feel like we're kind
Speaker 2: of missing out on. But then there's like the broader
Speaker 2: picture of like how would I feel if I was
Speaker 2: still that card mom knowing that I'm gay, Like you know,
Speaker 2: that was like rocking me to my core. So I
Speaker 2: would choose this you.
Speaker 1: And if everybody threw their problems into the middle, I
Speaker 1: will take my problems every single time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I ran into one of my neighbors, my favorite neighbor.
Speaker 1: I love her and I adore her husband. He helps
Speaker 1: me twice a week with something. He's killed roaches, he's
Speaker 1: helping my grass grow. He's over here building things, like
Speaker 1: he is my guy. And I said to her at
Speaker 1: the spring floating as I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: where's Bob today. I'm like, the best thing about Bob
Speaker 1: is it's like I have a husband right next door
Speaker 1: that I don't have to sleep with Bob. So she
Speaker 1: was dying and she's like, literally, she's like, he does
Speaker 1: more for you guys than us over here.
Speaker 3: That's funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like, you don't need a husband, and
Speaker 1: I got Bob.
Speaker 3: Just find a Bob, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I call Bob and I'm like, there's
Speaker 1: a roach. I'm dying.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I've had to just suck it up in those situations
Speaker 2: and deal with it myself.
Speaker 3: I hate it. Those are my least favorite bugs to kill.
Speaker 1: I can't sleep, like I will literally be up the
Speaker 1: entire night thinking about that roach.
Speaker 2: I actually had this happen recently where I found one
Speaker 2: in my bedroom. Like I'm getting off work, it's late
Speaker 2: at night. I go upstairs turn on the light and
Speaker 2: it's like you know when you turn on the lights,
Speaker 2: and it's like this fucking roach surprise party where they.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, the opposite of a surprise party.
Speaker 3: And they stopped and I was like, is it dead?
Speaker 2: And so I got like hairspray or something to go
Speaker 2: after it, and it runs into my bed.
Speaker 1: I'm a hotel. I have to go to a hotel now, dude.
Speaker 3: I had to just put it out of my brain
Speaker 3: because I was.
Speaker 1: Like, I need he's absolutely climbing up on the bed.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, please don't.
Speaker 2: I slept that night and I just told myself, you
Speaker 2: know what, you will survive if anything bad happens, It's
Speaker 2: not going to kill you. And I really needed sleep.
Speaker 2: But the very next.
Speaker 3: Day, oh my god, it does. I would feel it.
Speaker 3: I'm a light sleeper.
Speaker 2: This has happened in Florida when like Tom and I
Speaker 2: just started dating and I feel it crawl up my
Speaker 2: chest and I grabbed it in my sleep and I
Speaker 2: threw it at his back and like smacks him.
Speaker 3: He wakes up.
Speaker 2: We both jump out of bed, turn on the lights,
Speaker 2: and we watched the thing like run through the bed
Speaker 2: and disappear, and I was like, I'm not sleeping here tonight.
Speaker 1: And didn't you learn your lesson from that?
Speaker 2: I know maybe now because it's been like twenty something
Speaker 2: years find.
Speaker 3: But I just I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I had a choice, and I
Speaker 2: didn't want to like alarm Breckon because if he knew,
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 3: Was going to end if he found out.
Speaker 2: So I ended up buying like the roach bombs, which
Speaker 2: I'm sure are just filled with cancer, like to spray
Speaker 2: in my backyard with like some kind of bug killers.
Speaker 2: Ever since I've done that, I've not seen a single
Speaker 2: freaking bug. I'm pretty sure I just like messed up
Speaker 2: the ecosystem for all of the city by spraying that shit.
Speaker 1: But it yeah, they're all at your neighbor's house. It's
Speaker 1: true though, those grief that happens. And I was good
Speaker 1: up until we left, and then I left early, as
Speaker 1: I do. I'm walking home by myself, and I just
Speaker 1: it hit me like, yeah, this is not what I
Speaker 1: signed up for. And a year ago at the same event,
Speaker 1: I was very very happy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there's also like I think, accepting that there's going
Speaker 1: to be good and bad and like My mom used
Speaker 1: to always say, you can only be as happy as
Speaker 1: you been bad, Like you can't just be happy all
Speaker 1: the time. Or it's like there is no happy, like
Speaker 1: you could only be as happy as you've been sad.
Speaker 1: So it's like you're gonna have lows, You're gonna have hies,
Speaker 1: which is so much more fulfilling than just a blase
Speaker 1: a life where it's like nothing bad ever happens, nothing
Speaker 1: good ever happens, You're just like whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very true, comparing what where you were at
Speaker 2: a year ago.
Speaker 3: Sometimes that's like a good thing to do.
Speaker 2: Like I did that recently, and I realized, like I'm
Speaker 2: in the same cycle that I was in a year ago.
Speaker 2: I'm and I need to do something to end it,
Speaker 2: you know, because I'm just like nothing's being fixed, nothing's changed.
Speaker 1: Aren't we our own demise too. It's like I think
Speaker 1: about decisions I've made that I understand fully why I
Speaker 1: made them. You make mistakes still that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: haven't learned that lesson yet.
Speaker 3: I guess, Yeah, that's just it.
Speaker 2: It's like you're gonna keep making that mistake until it
Speaker 2: really really walks in. Yeah, but there does come a
Speaker 2: time where you do have to be really honest with
Speaker 2: yourself and be like, this is happening because I keep
Speaker 2: doing it, you know, I'm staying stuck.
Speaker 1: But two things can be true. I think this is
Speaker 1: something doctor Lorie kind of helped me see, is that
Speaker 1: two things, like you can have two competing forces that
Speaker 1: need your attention, and you're forced sometimes to make decisions
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't normally make, or you make them out
Speaker 1: of fear, or you make them out of ease of
Speaker 1: making to protect somebody. They are all kinds of times
Speaker 1: that that that happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's forces.
Speaker 1: Competing for what the needs are. Let's say, for example,
Speaker 1: let's say somebody had a partner and their child needed
Speaker 1: something and you had to cancel the date with the partner.
Speaker 1: The partner has completely been out of shape pissed, but
Speaker 1: the kid wanted to go to this party. And it
Speaker 1: might seem like not a big deal, but it's like
Speaker 1: these two competing forces that oftentimes you have to do
Speaker 1: things that feel bad for one good for another, and
Speaker 1: then you suffer the wrath of that decision and you
Speaker 1: did it again and all these things. But it's like, really,
Speaker 1: if you look at the big picture, the body of
Speaker 1: work is so good. Yeah, and I'm not talking to
Speaker 1: anybody in particular.
Speaker 3: Maybe, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think you're right, like in the sense of like,
Speaker 2: sometimes we're making decisions because someone else is in our
Speaker 2: life that we are kind of making those decisions with them.
Speaker 2: You know, We're not always leading the charge alone in
Speaker 2: these things. Yeah, our kids are the person that we're
Speaker 2: you know, want to be with.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'm kind of.
Speaker 2: Being like, oh, this is all my fault, this is
Speaker 2: what I did. But it's like, no, there's multiple factors
Speaker 2: at play here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, multiple things can be true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I think the other.
Speaker 1: Thing that I've come to learn a hard way is
Speaker 1: I protect people because I feel like, but you should
Speaker 1: go through the hassle and let people get bent out
Speaker 1: of shape and just live on the up and up
Speaker 1: where you're not Like, let's say there was a big
Speaker 1: party and you weren't invited. This would never happen because
Speaker 1: I would invite you. You know this, But I'm just
Speaker 1: going to use this example. There's a big party, you're
Speaker 1: not invited, and I can't get you in, but I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to go. I'm probably I would
Speaker 1: think in my heart I don't even want to tell
Speaker 1: her about the party because it's a non event and
Speaker 1: all it's going to do is make her sit at
Speaker 1: home and stress about this party she wasn't included too.
Speaker 1: So it's like this moral dilemma of do I tell
Speaker 1: Melissa about the party she's not included to or do
Speaker 1: I just go? The day passes and Melissa's none the
Speaker 1: wiser and her heart doesn't have to feel any kind
Speaker 1: of way.
Speaker 2: Then a picture gets posted where everybody's there, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like that's something though I struggle with.
Speaker 1: I don't I hate hurting people and I hate having
Speaker 1: a thing, so I end up hurting everyone because I
Speaker 1: can't do the thing. It's just easier to be like,
Speaker 1: let the day go and there's nothing to worry.
Speaker 3: About, right.
Speaker 2: But I think also too, it's like it can feel
Speaker 2: so personal when you're like not invited to something, you know,
Speaker 2: And I mean I feel that a lot.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of times that get invited to stuff,
Speaker 3: like and then I.
Speaker 2: See the picture or whatever, and it used to like
Speaker 2: really bother me, but now I'm just like it's fine,
Speaker 2: Like I don't have to be invited to everything. There's
Speaker 2: times that you and I have done things and not
Speaker 2: invited everybody, you know, And it's not necessarily about like
Speaker 2: not wanting these people around.
Speaker 3: It's limited space. You know.
Speaker 2: One thing that I don't like is to go out
Speaker 2: to dinner with like fifteen people, because I feel like
Speaker 2: that's never You're never having like a good, solid conversation
Speaker 2: with the whole group. And I'd rather if we're if
Speaker 2: it's a party, like a happy hour thing at your house,
Speaker 2: and we've got fifteen twenty people there, that's great, But
Speaker 2: everybody sits down at a restaurant, you're not like interacting with.
Speaker 1: Really, I think that's so true, And like you and
Speaker 1: I have the thing where we're like, we're always going
Speaker 1: to include each other, and I live by that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I always feel like I have you. But I
Speaker 1: can tell you two instances in the last three months
Speaker 1: where somebody called me after they had an event and
Speaker 1: said I had an event and I didn't invite you,
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, I don't like that, but
Speaker 1: maybe they're I think it's rude, like, don't even tell
Speaker 1: me I'm not invited. But then as I thought about it,
Speaker 1: it's like they're doing the thing I should have done,
Speaker 1: which is just say it so that I don't find
Speaker 1: out about it the hard way. If you're not a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, I don't need to know about
Speaker 1: your dumb party. I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're in.
Speaker 1: My inner circle and something happens and I'm not included,
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna be my feelings are a little hurt.
Speaker 2: You or I maybe not included on purpose because of
Speaker 2: someone else that's attending or something like that, which okay, fine.
Speaker 2: But I also think that sometimes, like the space situation
Speaker 2: is an issue that's okay. Sometimes maybe people just want
Speaker 2: an intimate thing of like four or five people, six people,
Speaker 2: and that's okay too. That person wanted to include you
Speaker 2: but was not doing so for that reason, and I
Speaker 2: think was trying to get ahead.
Speaker 1: I agree, But don't you think we are grown?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, invite.
Speaker 1: Both people and then let them decide if they want
Speaker 1: to come. I don't want. Well, that's you don't get
Speaker 1: to be the arbiter of my night. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like that hurts me. Like that to me is like
Speaker 1: I'm grown.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean that instance is, Yeah, that's a.
Speaker 2: Little unique in the sense of like I don't know
Speaker 2: who's like the victim in the breakup or whatever, you know.
Speaker 2: Like that part's difficult because it's another one of those
Speaker 2: things where I'm just like you, you don't know the
Speaker 2: ins and outs of like what was going on in
Speaker 2: a relationship.
Speaker 1: You don't know the ins and outs. But I let
Speaker 1: me preface in case she's listening, I'm not talking about
Speaker 1: the one that just happened. I'm so appreciative of, Like
Speaker 1: she let me know and I understood why completely, and
Speaker 1: I have no bad feelings about that whatsoever. So that
Speaker 1: one that just happened, if you're listening, this is yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about one that happened like six months ago
Speaker 1: I thought was so weird. But I think we're grown
Speaker 1: women and we can show up or not show up. PSA.
Speaker 1: Invite everybody and let them work, not everybody, but invite.
Speaker 1: Don't not invite someone because they're part of a couple.
Speaker 1: That's mean. Yeah, that's mean, And like I would tell
Speaker 1: my kids not to do that. And if my fourteen
Speaker 1: year old knows better, we should know better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, you know, sometimes it's like being
Speaker 2: in those situations where an ex is there whatever. I've
Speaker 2: experienced this where it's like I didn't think it was
Speaker 2: going to send my nervous system out of control, but
Speaker 2: it did. I still went yeah, and those feelings hit me.
Speaker 2: I handled them myself. I didn't, you know, make a
Speaker 2: scene or make a big deal about it. And I
Speaker 2: stayed at the party for as long as I wanted to,
Speaker 2: and then I left, you know, and then I addressed
Speaker 2: it in therapy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Another thing that I think is worth mentioning is like,
Speaker 1: I remember my dad used to always say this, and
Speaker 1: I say it now to my kids that like, also,
Speaker 1: if everybody likes you, then you aren't being authentic, Like
Speaker 1: you can pretty much guarantee if everybody likes you, you
Speaker 1: are not being yourself. You're morphing Ali. Everybody likes me,
Speaker 1: everybody might not like you, and they don't like me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know everybody doesn't like me. But I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of years telling my child in this like, if
Speaker 1: you feel like everybody likes you, you really evaluate your life,
Speaker 1: really evaluate your choices, really dig in, because you shouldn't
Speaker 1: be liked by everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeahs, And like that's.
Speaker 1: So please, you're gonna I'm perfectly fine to not be
Speaker 1: for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like It's become more obvious to me
Speaker 2: in recent years. I'm like, well, I kind of rub
Speaker 2: people the wrong way sometimes, and I don't even like
Speaker 2: intend to.
Speaker 1: I don't you know, are you no?
Speaker 3: But I think I'm being nicer.
Speaker 2: I think I'm like telling a joke, and then it
Speaker 2: like it is not going overseaved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's not well received.
Speaker 1: I usually give you shit because you're too nice.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, I can be too nice, but and
Speaker 3: that's just it. It's like I'm not saying anything mean
Speaker 3: in these instances.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just kind of ribbing somebody or like joking
Speaker 2: around like I was in this was in New York
Speaker 2: City and I went to the pharmacy and I was
Speaker 2: like having to go through all this stuff with my
Speaker 2: doctor and get all this shit that happened behind the
Speaker 2: scenes that this pharmacist has no idea about. And so
Speaker 2: I go to the counter and she was like, can
Speaker 2: I help you? And I was like, I sure, hope
Speaker 2: you can. And later the person was with me was
Speaker 2: like that pharmacists did not like you.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: She was like she kind of like gave me this
Speaker 2: like annoyed look when I said that, And I was
Speaker 2: saying it in the sense of like, please, I hope
Speaker 2: you can help me because I've been through the ringer
Speaker 2: and I need this medication.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that was not how the pharmacist was receiving it.
Speaker 3: Like they were.
Speaker 1: We also probably all need to be a little less
Speaker 1: like I'm going to assume and give you the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt that you're being kind unless you show
Speaker 1: me otherwise. I'm going to go into every conversation assuming
Speaker 1: you mean the best. In fact, I said this to
Speaker 1: someone the other day. She's like, think whatever you want,
Speaker 1: and I go, all right, I'm going to think of
Speaker 1: this as an it as a compliment.
Speaker 2: I will right, And like in that instance, I was right,
Speaker 2: and I was trying to like lighten the mood.
Speaker 3: I was being silly.
Speaker 2: But meanwhile, it's like, I don't know what this pharmacist
Speaker 2: is going through.
Speaker 3: She's probably had a help of a day.
Speaker 2: She's a pharmacist in the middle of New York City,
Speaker 2: like god knows, and here I am being I hope.
Speaker 3: You can help me, help me, and like she just
Speaker 3: met me.
Speaker 2: In that moment, I always think you're nice, Well, thank you,
Speaker 2: I'll tell me something else.
Speaker 3: Somebody.
Speaker 1: Really, we were having this conversation with another friend of
Speaker 1: ours in the group. Her name starts with A. She's
Speaker 1: listening and she was like, well, you know, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell you, in every room I've been in,
Speaker 1: people speak really nicely about you. And I didn't expect her.
Speaker 1: I was expecting her to be like, yeah, sometimes people
Speaker 1: feel like you're a little hard, or you're a little
Speaker 1: intimidating or whatever. I thought she was going to like
Speaker 1: say something like that, and she's like, every room I've
Speaker 1: ever been in people speak really highly yeah. And I
Speaker 1: was like, really, that just I've never heard anyone say that.
Speaker 1: It's like, I think we all think people are out
Speaker 1: there villainizing us. And she was like, let me just
Speaker 1: tell you, I've been in a lot of situations where
Speaker 1: people are talking, and that's what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's not anyone's ever said to me,
Speaker 2: Like I was going to say it to you.
Speaker 3: No one's saying no.
Speaker 2: Better, but they I mean, you are known as being
Speaker 2: like very welcoming, very kind.
Speaker 3: You don't do small talk.
Speaker 2: You're gonna ask the real questions. And they're sincere questions too.
Speaker 2: It's not like you're just you're not being nosy. You
Speaker 2: really want to like know who someone is and cut
Speaker 2: to the chase.
Speaker 1: So I think it's not going to be for everybody though,
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of alright with it, right.
Speaker 3: Because if you're for everybody, then that's boring.
Speaker 1: It's so boring. And it's also just like, are you
Speaker 1: morphing your personality to like have different groups of people
Speaker 1: think you're great?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like, And it kind of circles back to being like
Speaker 2: I would just still be married if I was going
Speaker 2: to play this, you know, if.
Speaker 1: I was going to play this part. Yeah, Like, But
Speaker 1: do you say more about I've talked about where like
Speaker 1: I'll go into a situation in a really good mood
Speaker 1: and like everybody feels healthy for me, Like I don't
Speaker 1: feel it all judged. I can totally relax. Yesterday's spring fling,
Speaker 1: I was with that group. They are like zero judgment,
Speaker 1: you know, just we love you so much, like we
Speaker 1: want you to feel good. But there's other groups I
Speaker 1: said in and I'm worried. I'm comfortable. It's like I
Speaker 1: can do it, But am I comfortable doing it now?
Speaker 1: Do you feel that sometimes?
Speaker 3: I do feel that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I've felt it more over the course of the
Speaker 2: last year, like I think I've learned a lot of
Speaker 2: like kind of hard lessons the past year as far
Speaker 2: as like friendships go, because I've always been very like
Speaker 2: free flowing with what I say in a way that
Speaker 2: kind of does get me in trouble sometimes or maybe
Speaker 2: a little bit too comfortable around some people, and like
Speaker 2: I said, like it's being interpreted in different ways from
Speaker 2: what I actually and so I found that I am
Speaker 2: like a lot more careful in bigger groups sometimes or
Speaker 2: around people where I'm I just don't know what's what
Speaker 2: am I free to say here? So it's it sucks though,
Speaker 2: because it does kind of like make me hold back
Speaker 2: a bit in some sense that I wouldn't have before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you feel like you can't just relax.
Speaker 2: Yeah me and say talking about like morphing personalities. It's
Speaker 2: like I've dialed back my personality because of that.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing and a bad thing,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you've learned the lesson. I think I
Speaker 1: never was as free speaking as you. I asked questions
Speaker 1: because I'm curious, but I wouldn't to be. You're still
Speaker 1: free speaking, but I could see what you mean, like
Speaker 1: sitting at a table with six people. If you're mentioning
Speaker 1: some crazy story, you're in your mind, you're thinking, I
Speaker 1: used to be able to tell the story to my
Speaker 1: sex games, but now I won't because then two of
Speaker 1: them are going to call someone and say, Melissa said
Speaker 1: this right, And now all of a sudden, Melissa's you.
Speaker 2: Know, now Melissa's a dick or yeah, gossiping or whatever,
Speaker 2: or not even gossiping. I don't think that's I'm speaking
Speaker 2: about my own experiences. But sometimes it's like I'm such
Speaker 2: an open book that I think it gets me in
Speaker 2: trouble because it's like I'm I'm free flowing thinking without
Speaker 2: really processing what I'm thinking. God, it's like it's an
Speaker 2: open session taking place, right, you know. And there were
Speaker 2: spaces where I felt really safe to do that, and
Speaker 2: then now I don't.
Speaker 3: But again I think it's again good and bad, because I.
Speaker 1: Think that makes sense. A friend of ours, both of ours,
Speaker 1: was asking me to send her the video from that
Speaker 1: day we were dancing at the Valero, and I looked
Speaker 1: back at that. I don't even remember. It was not
Speaker 1: that long ago, it was a few months ago. But
Speaker 1: I was reminded of, first of all, how much fun
Speaker 1: that was second of all how happy I was. It
Speaker 1: was good for me to look back because I was like,
Speaker 1: that is my safe zone. First of all, we were
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood, which you know, I love, But second
Speaker 1: of all, I was with all people that I'm very
Speaker 1: much myself, and so there was no filter that day.
Speaker 1: I could just be crazy and yeah, and like I
Speaker 1: missed that in this next year, Like I just I
Speaker 1: want to cultivate it more. I want to just really
Speaker 1: do that because it's not good for me otherwise. I mean,
Speaker 1: my therapist has said that, like you choose sometimes to
Speaker 1: put yourself in settings that you shouldn't you know better,
Speaker 1: and like you are pulling out a little and it's
Speaker 1: like you're doing what she says we should all be doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I think that's just it.
Speaker 2: It's like I kind of know how I might feel
Speaker 2: around in certain situations, and so I'm fine with like
Speaker 2: not going yeah, and I find that, like I'm a
Speaker 2: little bit happier when I take the time to not
Speaker 2: be so rushed in my life and take care of
Speaker 2: stuff around my home that makes me feel good. And
Speaker 2: I don't know, just really focus on spending that quality
Speaker 2: time with people who make me feel really good, like
Speaker 2: I'm going to make time to spend with you. I
Speaker 2: went to the Braves game with my best friend on
Speaker 2: Friday night, Like those are just like such good experiences
Speaker 2: for me. I think one of the other things, too,
Speaker 2: is just to be really honest with those friends and
Speaker 2: just know that you're allowed to be honest, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm allowed to tell you the ways that I've fucked
Speaker 2: up in situations and you're not going to be like, well,
Speaker 2: you're a fucking idiot and I'm not friends with you
Speaker 2: anymore because of that.
Speaker 1: You know, that is the bottom line. I think that
Speaker 1: is who is going to stand there when because we're
Speaker 1: not all going to be perfect. Somebody's not going to
Speaker 1: be me too. You're going to make twenty more mistakes.
Speaker 1: So if I walk away from everybody who has made
Speaker 1: a mistake, I'm going to be standing here by myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I just and I tend to like the complex
Speaker 1: person who has learned hard lessons. I always do. I
Speaker 1: gravitate to those people because I think that people deserve redemption,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I believe that wholeheartedly. The mistakes
Speaker 1: you've made are part of your revolution of you, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know that you're here looking like this had
Speaker 1: you not made those mistakes. Yeah, absolutely, were they even mistakes?
Speaker 1: I was going to say, and I don't say it's data,
Speaker 1: it's just data.
Speaker 2: It's it's data, it's it was me trying to navigate
Speaker 2: a relationship that wasn't emotionally aligning, you know, and but
Speaker 2: wanting it to. Yeah, And I think that's just it.
Speaker 2: I remember as a kid, I thought my parents knew everything.
Speaker 2: I thought they were the smartest fucking people on the
Speaker 2: planet too, because all adults know all, but I don't
Speaker 2: know shit. Like I know a little bit more than
Speaker 2: I did when I came out a few years ago,
Speaker 2: but I still am constantly learning.
Speaker 3: I'm constantly evolving, and I want it to be that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I don't want to sit here and be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm an I never make a mistake and I'm an
Speaker 2: expert on all because I'm not, and anybody claiming to
Speaker 2: be is a fucking liar.
Speaker 1: I totally agree. And another thing that occurred to me
Speaker 1: is the other day, I've been feeling kind of down,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about the people I've lost, like
Speaker 1: close relationships over the past year. One of them being
Speaker 1: my ex husband and another one. You know, that's like
Speaker 1: killing me. But I also know that like sometimes when
Speaker 1: you start to get closer to your true self, like
Speaker 1: as you're growing it, Like I think with my ex husband,
Speaker 1: like my needing to do things were ruffled him, so
Speaker 1: it's like he he isn't used to that. So it's
Speaker 1: like that friendship changed, but it changed because he's not
Speaker 1: used to me sticking up for myself in that way.
Speaker 1: I can beat myself up and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm losing him or I'm losing this other relationship, but
Speaker 1: it's like I think, sometimes it's just because you're being
Speaker 1: who you are, and it kills me to lose him
Speaker 1: like that has been one of the hardest heartbreaks of
Speaker 1: this past year, to not have that best friend anymore
Speaker 1: in him. But I think sometimes when you start being
Speaker 1: really authentic, you're going to lose a few people because
Speaker 1: they liked the old you that conformed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, there's a lot of evolving that's happened
Speaker 2: with both of you over the.
Speaker 3: Years, and you you.
Speaker 2: Know, just kind of going your separate ways in so
Speaker 2: many respects, and that's you know, something that I've kind
Speaker 2: of had to deal with earlier because that happens so quickly.
Speaker 2: But it's it's helped me a lot in the sense
Speaker 2: of like figuring it out of my own, leaning on
Speaker 2: other people, developing better friendships with other people, learning how
Speaker 2: to fucking do a drywall screw or.
Speaker 3: Whatever the fuck it is. What is it a wall anchor?
Speaker 3: You know, like all these little things that I used
Speaker 3: to be like can you help me? And he's say,
Speaker 3: you know, he still help me with stuff, but not,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I just try not to go there anymore, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I know that I can figure it out myself
Speaker 2: most of the time, but it is there is a
Speaker 2: level of like sadness to that. Yesterday was twenty two
Speaker 2: years since I met wow ex husband, which is just
Speaker 2: mind blowing, like twenty two years like little tighties. But
Speaker 2: I'm like reflecting back on that, I'm like, I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful for that experience like got me where I am today.
Speaker 2: Both of us shaped us as adults and brought to
Speaker 2: really great kids in the world. So I always try
Speaker 2: to like focus on those things rather than being like,
Speaker 2: oh man, because like, you know, I think you can
Speaker 2: relate to this too, if like we're both people that
Speaker 2: love being in relationships, and I wanted that relationship.
Speaker 3: To last forever.
Speaker 1: And it didn't mean too yep.
Speaker 3: But I can be happy about what it did bring.
Speaker 1: Me for sure. Percent. That's a great place to route.
Speaker 3: Look at us, Look at us.
Speaker 1: We still actually feel better. Good. Really? There you have it.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Well it's been a pleasure. Good rest
Speaker 1: of your weekend, and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3: Awesome, all bad. I. I want to support the Lesbian
Speaker 3: Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 2: Rate us and write a review on Apple podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1: We love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
Speaker 1: email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali
Speaker 1: A L l I at gmail dot com. Or follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles