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True Murder with your 32 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.280 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 33 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:52.959 Good Evening. In this revised, updated, and expanded edition, the 34 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.239 author explores the life of Theodore Bundy, one of the 35 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:02.359 more infamous and flamboyant American serial killers on record. Bundy's 36 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:07.439 story is a complex mix of psychopathology criminal investigation in 37 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:12.039 the US legal system. This in depth examination of Bundy's 38 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.520 life in his killing spree that total dozens of victims 39 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:20.199 is drawn from legal transcripts, correspondence, and interviews with detectives 40 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:24.840 and prosecutors. Using these sources, new information about several murders 41 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:29.439 is unveiled. The biography follows Bundy from his broken family 42 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:33.560 background to his execution in the electric chair. The book 43 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:36.400 that we're featuring this evening is The Bundy Murders, A 44 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:41.000 Comprehensive History, second Edition, with my special guest, journalist and author, 45 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:44.639 Kevin Sullivan. Welcome back to the program. Thank you very 46 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:45.560 much for this interview. 47 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:51.159 Kevin Sullivan, Hey Dan, how things going. I'm happy to 48 00:02:51.199 --> 00:02:53.520 be back. I know we always have a great time 49 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.280 when we talk about Ted Bundy, and now we're revisiting 50 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.360 the book that started at all, the Bundy Murder, and 51 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.479 this time it's the second edition, so I look forward 52 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:04.080 to our talk. 53 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.000 Absolutely. It's always great to have you on as the 54 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:13.120 resident world expert on Ted Bundy. And as you mentioned, 55 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:16.919 this is where it all started, this book, The Bundy Murders, 56 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.199 about ten years ago. As you write in this second edition, 57 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.120 tell us, though, let's go back. Tell us about the incredible, 58 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.800 like you say, nothing less than surreal events which led 59 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.960 to the writing of this first edition of the book. 60 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:39.400 Tell us about this sure, sure, it's interesting. I never 61 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.520 had any intention of writing about Ted Bundy. I mean, 62 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:47.479 I'm familiar with the case. But there's a Louisville connection 63 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.759 to the Bundy story and it was in the person 64 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.280 of Jim Matthey. He was a friend of mine. He 65 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:58.199 was a probation pro officer here in Louisville, Kentucky for 66 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.840 many many years, retired out after thirty years. He passed 67 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.280 away a couple of years ago. But he was a 68 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:09.759 friend of Jerry Thompson. He had known the retired investigator 69 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.479 Utah investigator and I should say, the lead investigator for 70 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.920 the Bundy case in Utah. He had known him since 71 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.279 the mid to early nineteen eighties, and so we would 72 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.160 occasionally talk about Bundy. I hadn't read any books about, 73 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.199 you know, Ted Bundy, but we would talk about it. 74 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:33.680 And when Jerry and his wife Jean were coming to 75 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.079 Louisville back in May of two thousand and five, I 76 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:39.399 got a call and of course you know they you know, 77 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:41.199 they've been friends with Jim and so that you know. 78 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:43.639 He he called Jim and he said, well, you know 79 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.399 we're we'll be in Louisville in May. This was like 80 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:50.920 in March. So Jim called me and he said, listen, 81 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.839 the Thompsons are coming to Louisville in May. Would you 82 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.319 like to have dinner with us? I said, sure, I 83 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:01.399 think that would be great. I would love to at 84 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:04.040 the time, I only had one book to my name, 85 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:08.800 and that was my first book, Shattering the Myth. Signposts 86 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.720 on coasters wrote to UH a disaster, and I was 87 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:18.399 writing a true crime book, and I was also writing. 88 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:22.240 I wasn't on staff, but I was writing occasionally, UH 89 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:27.079 feature articles for a local newspaper which was really published 90 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:31.600 in Lexington, Kentucky, and and Louisville, Kentucky and in about 91 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.959 five or six about five other states. UH and UH. 92 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.000 The paper was called Snitch and it had to do 93 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.519 with my crime and the law. And so I did 94 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:47.360 several features for them and and some others in the 95 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:52.199 UH pipeline when the paper went out of business. UH. 96 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:56.519 But but but in any event, I said yeah, because 97 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.000 I wanted to meet, you know, Jerry. I'd heard things 98 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.759 about him, and it was my only opportunity to meet, 99 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.560 you know, somebody that was connected with the case. I 100 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:08.120 didn't think it was going to lead to anything, really, 101 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:11.399 So I got to meet Jerry. And what happened was 102 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:16.399 on the Sunday that they arrived into Louisville, Jim called 103 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:17.959 me and he let me know where we were going 104 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.959 to be eating dinner. And I was about to say, okay, 105 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:22.560 well you know, I'll see you there whatever, And he 106 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:26.759 said he brought the bag. I said what bag? He said, 107 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:30.079 the bag Bundy carry like his Merma kid. He said, 108 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:32.319 I have it with me now on my truck. So 109 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.399 I said, listen, Jim, could I meet you a few 110 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.120 minutes early, I mean earlier than when we were supposed to, 111 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:41.680 you know, meet them in the parking lot of the rest. 112 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.439 But I said sure. So, you know, I got in 113 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.079 the car, drove up to Gold Corral and it was 114 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:48.920 not too far from my house up there in the 115 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:52.720 exploiting area, and the Thompson's was staying about a half 116 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.360 a mile down the road to a place called the 117 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.480 Broken Ridge in and so I got there, you know, 118 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.879 and as soon as they were then there was Jim 119 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:02.920 in his truck. He was getting down the truck he 120 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.480 saw me, and he was carrying this brown satchel and 121 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:08.720 that was Bundy's murder kit and it was encased in 122 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:12.560 a large, clear plastic bag that Jerry had it in 123 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:16.079 because he's had this bag ever since Bundy was executed. 124 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.319 He got it from you know, the Salt La Countys 125 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.839 ARIOSO Office evidence room, and he used it as teaching 126 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:25.560 duels anyway, So I got to look at all this 127 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.480 stuff and went back to the Brigan Ridge in you 128 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.120 know afterwards, and sat around and I interviewed Jerry and uh, 129 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.519 just a really really really nice guy. And what I 130 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:41.759 did was I wrote an article for Snitch about having 131 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:43.360 this bag. Oh, and I need to tell you this. 132 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:46.560 On the second he turned the bag over to Jim 133 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:48.439 for as long as they were in Louisville, and they 134 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:51.279 were here about four days, so I got to meet 135 00:07:51.319 --> 00:07:53.160 him that night. I got to see this stuff. It's 136 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.199 a it's a it's it's it's a gym bag, a 137 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:59.560 brown one. It had two right handed gloves in it. 138 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.120 There were different ones of Puffy's ski type field as 139 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.360 a brown, a light brown woolen glove with a darker 140 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:12.000 brown like leather palm area. And it had electrical cord 141 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.560 which he would use very often for choking. It had 142 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.720 rope and strips of sheet for binding of hands and feet. 143 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:24.759 It had a ski masks. It had glad banks because 144 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:27.519 he would always take the clothes of the victims and 145 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.399 it you know, if they were found at all, they 146 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.840 were found nude, they might have a beaded necklace on them, 147 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:35.120 but he would always put the clothes. You know, this 148 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:38.519 is before real DNA was there, but still there could 149 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.559 be connecting hairs and things, so he would get rid 150 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.879 of those in the dumpster down the road. And this 151 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.240 particular glad box was a box of tin and there 152 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:53.679 were three missing, so so he had that, and there 153 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:55.799 was an ice pick, a flashlight, you know, just the 154 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:59.080 duels of the trade of murderer Bundy. And so I 155 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.720 called Jim a couple of days later and I said, listen, 156 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.080 could I bring that stuff to over to my house 157 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.039 the photograph it. He said sure. I went by Jim's house. 158 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:12.519 It had just gotten like, you know, dark, and I 159 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.159 picked up the bag. I put it in the in 160 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:19.120 the passenger seat of my car, and I started driving, 161 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:23.720 and it was so surreal having ted Bundy's you know, 162 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:25.879 murder kid with me. And I looked over in the 163 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.840 passenger seat and because it was dark, I'm going down 164 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.600 the streets and there'd be street lamps occasionally, and when 165 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:36.440 I would pass one, the bag would be kind of dark, 166 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:38.559 and here comes the street light, and then it had 167 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:40.799 this eerie glow it would shine on the bag, and 168 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:44.120 then it was so I called my wife and I said, listen, honey, 169 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:45.919 she said, we probably don't have anything on the din 170 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.679 room table, but if we do, can you kind of 171 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.720 clear it off? And I'm bringing Ted Bundy's murder kid 172 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.919 into the house because I want to photograph it. And 173 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.279 my son in law was there, and my wife she 174 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:00.519 doesn't really like things like this, but she said, oh, okay, sure, 175 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:04.600 that's fine, and uh so I took it to my house, 176 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:08.320 not my son in law. At the time. He was 177 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.600 able to arrange it in different ways and I was 178 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.919 taking pictures and then I took the bag back to 179 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.240 Jim later that night. And when the Thompson has left Louisville, 180 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.440 uh like four days later, she said, why don't you 181 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:26.440 meet us over at the Breckenridge in So we went 182 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.519 over there and we took some more pictures and talked, 183 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.039 and while he was waiting on his wife, she was 184 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.919 doing some things in the room, Jerry was down with 185 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:38.840 us in the parking lot. Uh Jim had popped that 186 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:43.480 the tail thing on his truck, and uh, you know, 187 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:45.679 Jerry was sitting on and the bag was there. So 188 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.720 we took more photographs and before Jerry left, he gave 189 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:55.000 me and he gave Jim each one of the glad 190 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.759 bags taken from Ted Bundy's Murkett and I said, Jerry, 191 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.679 would you mind writing a letter of authentication? And he 192 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.720 said sure. So I didn't have a paper on me, 193 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:08.559 so I walked into the Broken Regina and I got 194 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:11.919 some of the large stationary you know, like if I 195 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:13.960 wanted to if I found a letter in the broken ridge, 196 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:19.360 it's across the top, and I had, and he wrote 197 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:21.159 one out for each of us. I said, thank you 198 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:24.720 so much. Well, I wrote an article for Snitch and 199 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:29.559 this appeared I think in June or July of two 200 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.200 thousand and five, and I thought, you know, I would 201 00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:35.600 get all of this out of my system, and you know, 202 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:39.879 you know, just by doing this oracle. And so I 203 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:44.080 was published. It was well received, but it didn't leave 204 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:48.720 my system. And the funny thing is I kept wanting 205 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:52.039 to know more about it. Just having that glad trash 206 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.480 back and having that kid in my house and meeting Jerry. 207 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:57.759 I had to say it was more of the kid 208 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.200 than even meeting Jerry, because I would have read an 209 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:03.240 article even when I forgid about Jerry. But it was 210 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.240 having those items that were so close to Ted Bundy 211 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.679 and there was in my house there was no museum 212 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.039 curator or a detective there to tell me what to 213 00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:16.279 do with it, and it was just surreal. So that 214 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.039 was the impetus. That was the thing that really drove 215 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:22.799 me to start writing about Ted Bundy. And I mentioned 216 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:24.480 the Massey I was going to write a book, and 217 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.840 I told some others and they said, listen, Bundy has 218 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:30.679 been done to death. You don't need to be writing 219 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:35.120 a book about him. But as I've often said, sometimes 220 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.279 you have to go with not what people say, but 221 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.399 what you know on the inside. You need to be 222 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:45.399 doing when you really know you should be doing it. 223 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:49.519 And I did, and so you know, I wrote the book, 224 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.720 and I remember thinking halfway through the book I was 225 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:59.480 finding out new things never before published about several of 226 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:03.879 these murk and a tremendous amount of new information about 227 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:06.799 the case in general. And of course it was it 228 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:10.679 turned out to be the smartest move I've ever made, 229 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.720 because the book has been a good seller every well. 230 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:16.440 It was published in August of two thousand and nine. 231 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.960 At the time, nobody really knew who I was, so 232 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:23.159 it took a while for that to get going. But 233 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.279 once you know a number of people you know read 234 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.000 the book, were like influential. They knew other people and 235 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:32.039 they told other people, and you know, all of a sudden, 236 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:36.600 after a while, people started knowing who I was in 237 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.120 this and the book has you know, has just done 238 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.639 nothing but built and built and built over the years. 239 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.320 And you know, in twenty seventeen, well, I should say 240 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:49.960 I had documentarians contacted me as early as twenty ten 241 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:56.639 about my book, and the American documentary makers really didn't 242 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:00.480 get I guess the message about me for a long time, 243 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.200 or perhaps they weren't making any docs about Bundy. But 244 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:08.759 by twenty seventeen I had just a number of documentarians 245 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:14.600 from the United States and the UK and contacting me 246 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:19.279 about Bundy, along with many national magazines of publications. Won 247 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:24.600 the information, and none of the all of these these 248 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:26.159 documentary makers. 249 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.440 Wait, the lucky landslops. You can get lucky just about anywhere. 250 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.159 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 251 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:36.000 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 252 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.120 a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 253 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:41.639 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 254 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.960 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 255 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:45.200 and start getting lucky. 256 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.919 Pay for free at lucky landslipes dot com. Are you 257 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.639 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 258 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.799 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details. 259 00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:59.519 The one thing they had in common they all had 260 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.480 my book, The Bundy Murders, a comprehensive history, and some 261 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.320 of them asked me to come on the show, but 262 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.039 even those ones that didn't, or the ones like Netflix 263 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:10.840 at the last minute asked me to do it, that 264 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:12.879 I could not get to New York in the time 265 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:15.519 frame that they asked me, and so I couldn't do 266 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.320 the doc. But he said, I got your book, and 267 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.200 I said, well, I'm glad because there's a lot in 268 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:23.480 there that you can make use of. So it's been 269 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:28.279 a real experience, and of course this is the book 270 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:32.159 that I never expected to ever write anything more than 271 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.200 this book on Bundy, which is the full treatment of 272 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.519 the murders and what I would call the full biography. 273 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.879 And then, of course, in twenty fifteen, because of some 274 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.320 people that have passed away and some information that I had, 275 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.759 I decided to write what is known as a companion 276 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.799 buy into that, which became the Trail of Ted Bundy. 277 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:57.519 And interestingly enough, I was able to uncover new information 278 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:01.200 in that book. That is people do it never talked before, 279 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.279 like Larry Anderson, who out of Utah, who was a 280 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:09.759 good friend of Ted Bundy's. He told me, he said, 281 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:15.120 you know, been on hunting down, he said. I was 282 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.960 offered a lot of money one of the national magazines 283 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.559 several days after Bundy was executed to give my testimony 284 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:24.440 about it, but I just didn't want to do it. 285 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.559 So then he ends up talking to me twenty years later, 286 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:31.200 doesn't ask for a dime and that, and there's a 287 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.240 lot of testimonies in there that have never been in 288 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:36.799 print before. And so I said, great, that's a good 289 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.039 companion by him. And then the next year, because of 290 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.600 some other things that happened, I did write another book 291 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:47.519 and that was called The Bundy Secrets, and in that 292 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:53.000 another group of new testimonies as well as the republication 293 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.360 of the record and then commentary for me because people 294 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:01.679 love seeing different parts of the record. Another one I 295 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:08.079 did a year or so later called Ted Bundy's Murderous Mysteries. Uh. 296 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.519 And it's it's a deeper look into the victims and 297 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.720 just it turned out to be a really good book. Uh. 298 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.279 And I got a lot of information. There was again 299 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.960 new testimonies that had never come to the printed page before, 300 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.440 you know, like the Bundy Secrets, I interviewed a woman, 301 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.319 I mean Louise Cannon, and outside of the detectives in Utah, nobody, 302 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.920 no writer has ever interviewed her or it really saw 303 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.119 her out. Ted tried to work for a bank and 304 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.400 so her story is in there. And was interesting about 305 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.000 Louise Cannon story is Louise who already knew Ted in Utah, 306 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.519 and Ted always chatted her up and was you know, 307 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.160 it was just like almost like the life of the party. 308 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:57.640 She ran into him one night at a bar around 309 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:04.119 a loot before eight thirty pm, and it was October eighteenth, 310 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:06.920 nineteen seventy four, and that was just about an hour 311 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.400 and a half before he would abduct Melissa Smith. And 312 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.119 she said, as I walked in, And of course you 313 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:15.440 can read this story in the Bundy Secrets, because she 314 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:20.799 said walked in, she saw him on a barstool up 315 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.400 the bar. So she was going to her a table 316 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.839 where her friends were, and she said, hey, Ted, how 317 00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.960 you doing? He said, hey, Louise, And she's noticed that 318 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:35.759 he was not his jovial sense he looked different, sounded different, 319 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.200 and that was you know, he was drinking alcohol. So 320 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:42.359 they didn't change a lot of words. And then she laught. 321 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.839 She I meant, you know, to the table, she said. 322 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.880 The next time she looked over, he was gone. Now 323 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.440 we know from the record, we from what we know 324 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:56.039 about Bundy, we know that he would jumpstart himself many 325 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:58.440 times before going out and hunting, and that's what he 326 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.799 was doing. So within a that's around eight thirty, by 327 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:08.960 ten o'clock, he's abducting Melissa Smith. That was This bar 328 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:12.359 that she was at with him is called Willill McCoy's 329 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:16.559 and it was very close to where Melissa was the 330 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:21.079 Pepperoni Pizza where she had gone up there to visit 331 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.720 her friend, and people theorized that he was in there. 332 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:28.000 Somebody tasked about later that he was in there after 333 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.480 he came to light. And what's interesting, they don't know 334 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.079 if he gave her a ride, probably not, that that 335 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.079 might be more likely he followed her all the way 336 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.799 home when the head of her got out and attacked 337 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:43.640 her in a darkened part of the neighborhood. Because there 338 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.319 was a woman I see in the book at the 339 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:49.480 unlikely hour of like eleven o'clock out breaking the leaves, 340 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.880 and she heard one scream pierce the night air. So 341 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.960 stories like this were coming to light. Nobody had interviewed 342 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:01.000 Leslie palm Mener. She is in the record. That's the 343 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.960 fact as to what Bundy tried to do with her 344 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:09.000 on February eighth in Jacksonville, try to kidnap her from 345 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.000 a kmart parking lot until her brother showed up. But 346 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.960 all these people came forward. So in Ted Bunny's mur Mysteries, 347 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.000 I've published these. I published more things about the record 348 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:22.640 with commentary and other things, which is very interesting, digging 349 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.880 deeper in the record about the victims. So I get 350 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:28.599 done with that two days after it's published. I got 351 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:30.680 to tell you when I when the book I might 352 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.880 have published. I like to relax. I like to take 353 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.720 some time and just relax, see other books, doing do 354 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.319 some interviews. I'm not thinking about any other books. That 355 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.000 was going to be it for me. I was contacted 356 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:47.480 by Fella and he does a lot of work in 357 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.759 the Civil War area, but he's got a really interested 358 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.119 in Ted Bundy. So he said, have you never thought 359 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:57.079 about doing a encyclopedia of Ted Bundy? I said that 360 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.160 just book. My publisher just published this book on on Bundy. 361 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.519 It's the fourth book. It's supposed to be the final book. 362 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.839 I said no, and then I said, you know what, 363 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.519 I think I'll table that for now. He said, well, 364 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:12.319 I'll do it. I would do it myself, and I'm 365 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.119 just too busy. I said, well, it's a good idea, 366 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:16.720 I admit it. So a couple of days later I 367 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.480 kept feeling good about it, feeling good about it, so 368 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.599 I called my publisher and I said, I thought maybe 369 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:25.440 the publisher would say, oh no, we're really not interested 370 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.359 right now. I could say, oh good, you can put 371 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.640 it only shelf to treat it. But they liked the idea. 372 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.039 So here I go again on the fifth book. But 373 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.359 it was different. It was an encyclopedia, and there is 374 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.359 nothing out there on Bundy like it. There are psyched 375 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:44.200 encyclopedias of killers, obviously, but nothing exclusively about Buddy. So 376 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:46.400 I wrote the book. It was kind of a fun 377 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.359 book to write because I was able to delve into 378 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.119 the lives of a lot of people that were a 379 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:54.599 part of the story, be a newspaper, writers or somebody else, 380 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.880 but beyond their role there, I didn't know a lot 381 00:21:56.920 --> 00:21:59.119 about them, so I kind of got I was able 382 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.359 to dig into their stories and so it was interesting 383 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:05.920 to write. So that was published. So I, you know, 384 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.920 after a while, I had the feeling I said, you know, 385 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.319 there's some other avenues that more people have contacted me. 386 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.359 There's some other avenues that I would like to explore 387 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.559 with Ted Bundy that have to do with a lot 388 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:23.359 of questions and controversies and things that heretofore have not 389 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.240 been answered or certainly have not been answered to a 390 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:29.720 substantial way. And I said, between that and some other 391 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.039 things I've got going with the book and the new interviews, 392 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.319 I'm going to do one last Bundy book. And so 393 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.440 I have done it. I'm so happy that I did it. 394 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.640 I did something that I never really thought I would do. 395 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:46.400 In twenty in two thousand and eight, two thousand and 396 00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:50.720 seven eight, I interviewed I mean, I interviewed a lot 397 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:53.160 of people for the book to Bunny burse but some 398 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.240 of them I interviewed on tape, and those on tape 399 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:01.839 were Jerry Thompson, Don Patch, and On Holmes. I even 400 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.319 interviewed Jim Massey, but I couldn't locate the tape. So 401 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:06.519