Speaker 1: So Dana Janna, you know, told me like, hey, Sonny,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about the crypto shit, right, but
Speaker 1: but I know what you're doing. And I really mean
Speaker 1: I show him about the v better Doll, the ecossm,
Speaker 1: the different type of application like Mackshaw CLANEYFI and Evy earned,
Speaker 1: you know, for how do you connected with a tesla?
Speaker 1: You know, like, oh, I can't understand that.
Speaker 2: Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward,
Speaker 2: and today we're recording at Station three in New York's
Speaker 2: Financial District, and my guests the one and only Sonny Luke,
Speaker 2: co founder and CEO of V Chain. Sonny, it's great
Speaker 2: to have you and to be doing this in person
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's definitely my pleasure, you know. I feel like
Speaker 1: having that kind of interview. It's so much different. It's
Speaker 1: better than the remote. So I'm quite exciting what we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about today.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, I'm a big fan of E Chain.
Speaker 2: I'm a VET token holder, and we've done maybe what
Speaker 2: five six virtual inters to do this in person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, back to a long time five six years ago,
Speaker 1: I saying, you know, a long time, long.
Speaker 2: Time when we were all virtual, I know, in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty and then we kept it virtual. And I know
Speaker 2: you travel a lot, so it's really great to have
Speaker 2: you that you're in New York this week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel thrilled about this opportunity to meet you
Speaker 1: in person and also doing this kind of kind of
Speaker 1: like live show. Yeah, that kind of feeling. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great.
Speaker 2: Now we were both in DC last week for the
Speaker 2: DC Blockchain Summit. I missed you, right, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too bad miss each other.
Speaker 2: But the vibes were different, Sonny. The US is open
Speaker 2: for business when it comes to crypto. How do you
Speaker 2: feel about all this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I feel a little bit confusing as many
Speaker 1: people in the crypto space, especially coming from I would
Speaker 1: say a little bit from institutions, coming from Wall Street,
Speaker 1: or even from Europe. One side is the regulations. It
Speaker 1: has made so much good progress, right, MIKA just launched,
Speaker 1: and by the way, VD and a VS or we
Speaker 1: just get confirmed by the MECA compliance a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and then we're getting super excited and actually
Speaker 1: opened up the door to many institutions. We're getting more
Speaker 1: interests like oh we wanted to now we're able to
Speaker 1: invest you or able to collaborate with you because of
Speaker 1: the compliance. Right. So that's a good sign. And also
Speaker 1: especially for the United States since Trump hit the White House,
Speaker 1: you know, it really changed the tones for everything. Right,
Speaker 1: Davis X now is a crypto and the AI is
Speaker 1: R and holding the White House Crypto summer meeting those
Speaker 1: you know crypto folks in from the industries. That's a
Speaker 1: good sign. That's basically like, you know, opened up the
Speaker 1: door for every possibility. Right, everyone is looking at the
Speaker 1: clarity in terms of regulations, so the whole industry you
Speaker 1: can moving forward. But also on the other side, I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, we're still let's say the entire
Speaker 1: crypto space are missing the real utilities, real life applications.
Speaker 1: Well it's let's say we talk about the stable going
Speaker 1: regulation in US and even talk about the more even
Speaker 1: we talk about the National Reserve for bigcoin. It's a
Speaker 1: good sign. Right, But eventually, if crypto goes to let's say,
Speaker 1: going to the next level. Let's say, as we discussed
Speaker 1: a long time ago, we believe block chain or crypto
Speaker 1: are going to be like Internet two point zero, right,
Speaker 1: and then it's supposed to be the technology to bring
Speaker 1: the benefits or enable some of the cool applications normal
Speaker 1: people can use on the databasis, right, not just you know,
Speaker 1: crypto folks and doing the speculative trading only you know
Speaker 1: or so it's I would say people are more caving
Speaker 1: for the real life application even more, right. So that's
Speaker 1: that's what I feel like a little bit confusing. One
Speaker 1: side people getting super excited about the regulation progress. Another
Speaker 1: side is like, okay, other things, the big poin what
Speaker 1: should we look at or is there any real italy
Speaker 1: real applications. We get excited about that. So that's that's
Speaker 1: a general market sentiment. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, it's a great point because you think about if
Speaker 2: we you and I both go out here to Wall
Speaker 2: Street and we talk to different people are using web
Speaker 2: three or blockchain in any way, No, what's that right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Not there yet? Yeah, yeah, we need to get to
Speaker 2: that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm using it to send payments, I'm using it to
Speaker 2: earn rewards on my daily activities, like what reachain is there?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, everybody get super excited about what
Speaker 1: we're showing to And also I got some of the
Speaker 1: real challenge. It's like, oh, whatever you do is great,
Speaker 1: but why we don't why we didn't know that? Like,
Speaker 1: how are we going to promote about that?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: What's your marketing strategy about that? So well, we have
Speaker 1: loads of exciting stuff coming up in the next few weeks.
Speaker 1: But I took it. You know, that's some challenge we've
Speaker 1: got to do. Even though I'm very proud about what
Speaker 1: we have been doing and having focus on the utility
Speaker 1: creation real life applications. But still I guess, well, you know,
Speaker 1: like we have been working with UFC for a few
Speaker 1: years now, but let's we've got to continue to do that.
Speaker 2: Sure, I want to circle back. You mentioned the v
Speaker 2: chain token, the vet token, and Vitho got the MICA compliance.
Speaker 2: Told us about that. What is that compliance? Like are
Speaker 2: they giving you the approval?
Speaker 1: Well, this time I have to say Europeans are kind
Speaker 1: of way ahead. In the United States. Well, we all
Speaker 1: know the reason, right, the last year was terrible, or
Speaker 1: even the beginning of the year it was great with
Speaker 1: ETF approval for big cooins Bar. But you know then
Speaker 1: the previous administration, even the Gary Gansler, that doesn't really
Speaker 1: do the good job. I have to say that in
Speaker 1: the ply way. But the European actually we ahead the
Speaker 1: reason actually the reason we moved to Europe since twenty
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, we kind of knew like there was
Speaker 1: something cooking, right, so that's why we moved there. We
Speaker 1: have been working very closely with local regulators and find
Speaker 1: the right ones. Actually we have been working with Central
Speaker 1: Bank of Ireland since we have quite a big technical
Speaker 1: office in Dublin and getting easier closer you know, with
Speaker 1: the local regulators and walk on that. But still it
Speaker 1: took us a one year. And generally speaking European MICA
Speaker 1: has or we call MICA whatever. There is a three
Speaker 1: different categories in terms of regulations. The first category it's
Speaker 1: called custodian exchanges, so basically you know it's a similar
Speaker 1: offerings or regulation framework, right, Basically you're managing assets for
Speaker 1: your clients, right, So custodia exchange sits on the first category.
Speaker 1: And second category we call digital assets of its provider.
Speaker 1: So basically like a payment services, if you are offering
Speaker 1: like a crypto credit card or debit card, then you
Speaker 1: are falling to this class, right. And the third is
Speaker 1: as a token issuer like us. So majorly you've got
Speaker 1: to update your white paper based on following the formats,
Speaker 1: regulatory formats coming from the entire Europe. So well, we
Speaker 1: have been very very proud, and it was glad that
Speaker 1: and vis war not only that, that and vis war
Speaker 1: got confirmed following our the latest update the white paper,
Speaker 1: following some regulation requirements, and now it's kind of for us,
Speaker 1: it's opened up the door. And by the way, MECA
Speaker 1: is we called European Passport Policy, which means, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like when you get let's say, wow, Americans doesn't
Speaker 1: need a visa to go to Europe. But let's say
Speaker 1: if you need a visa goes to Europe, when you
Speaker 1: apply the Shanghuan passport visa, then you can travel to
Speaker 1: like all of the regions, most of the countries in Europe.
Speaker 1: Then you don't need like a specific visa to France
Speaker 1: or specific visa to Italy or Space. No, you just
Speaker 1: need a one shan Gun visa. Then you can travel
Speaker 1: around the whole Europe. Right. So the MECA is kind
Speaker 1: of similar, which means you get license or compliance in
Speaker 1: one country and then you will be able to serve.
Speaker 1: Right now, the first cope in twenty seven countries serve
Speaker 1: the clients or facing or doing the business engagements or
Speaker 1: expansions in twenty seven countries of Europe. And also even
Speaker 1: that that scope is just a first scope and they
Speaker 1: are still expanding and more countries in Europe region applying
Speaker 1: to be included in the MECA scope. So that's really good.
Speaker 1: That means you don't need to go with all of
Speaker 1: the hustles. For example, like America, you know you gotta
Speaker 1: go stay by, stay right, and in Europe you don't
Speaker 1: need that. You got to unified standard issues. Sure, every
Speaker 1: local jurisdiction you might have a different type of requirement.
Speaker 1: For example, if you try to apply that in Italy,
Speaker 1: you gotta use a Gaily language, right, so let's simply
Speaker 1: put that way. Yeah, but it's other than that. Majorly,
Speaker 1: the requirement is quite a consistent across all of the
Speaker 1: twenty seven countries and even still expanding, and then you're
Speaker 1: able to expand your business for the entire Europe.
Speaker 2: That's great and to your point, I'm a great insight
Speaker 2: by the way, and that and in the United States,
Speaker 2: each state on the state level has its own regulator.
Speaker 2: Like for example, staking was available in some states is
Speaker 2: not available in certain states.
Speaker 1: It's a yeah, yeah, that's a hustle. That's a hussle. Well, like,
Speaker 1: like I agree with you know Moscow on this point.
Speaker 1: You know, over regulation kind of slow down the innovation, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree absolutely.
Speaker 2: Now there you know you mentioned UFC partnership earlier and
Speaker 2: I saw Dana White were in the region.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2: I gotta get one. It does I saw Dana White
Speaker 2: do the video. What do you guys have upcoming?
Speaker 1: Oh, lots of things. Well, actually, you know, bye, I
Speaker 1: met to Dana a few years ago at the first time,
Speaker 1: but now following the journey together, we're kind of know
Speaker 1: each other very more than before for sure, and we
Speaker 1: kind of grew up to be, let's say, to be
Speaker 1: a really good friend. So we call even call each
Speaker 1: other like a brother, this brother, sunny brother, Danna something
Speaker 1: like that. But what I what I really proud is
Speaker 1: Danna really likes what we're doing. Let's put this way.
Speaker 1: And you know, Danna told me like Danna is a
Speaker 1: very authentic guy. I think, I think even from the Internet,
Speaker 1: from the public channel, social channels, you know, Dana is
Speaker 1: very authentic guy. Right. He never lies about everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: he just he's just being he I know. Then I
Speaker 1: tell you I know this, I know how I do.
Speaker 1: Then I tell you if I don't know, I tell
Speaker 1: you I don't know, right, That's the type of thing.
Speaker 1: So Danna Jenna, you know, told me like, hey, Sonny,
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about the crypto ship, right, but
Speaker 1: but I know what you're doing, and I really I
Speaker 1: show him about a v better all the ecosystem, the
Speaker 1: different type of applications like Markshaw, Clinify and ivy earned,
Speaker 1: you know, for how do you connect with the tesla.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I can understand that, right. And then
Speaker 1: he like, you know, I really like what you're doing
Speaker 1: and I want to support you. I want to I
Speaker 1: really want you to to succeed. So and that's that's,
Speaker 1: let's say in different levels, not only like oh it's
Speaker 1: just a sponsorship or just an exposure. Now in a
Speaker 1: different level, I would say, uh, firstly, it's about how
Speaker 1: to leverage with US events. It's a huge fan base,
Speaker 1: right like one Bida user across the whole world. Second,
Speaker 1: you know, it's about the possible business collaborations. Uh, we're
Speaker 1: we're going to work with one of the angos were
Speaker 1: focused on the collexing plastic waste. It's called fotion dot
Speaker 1: com and that actually sends to then us connection and
Speaker 1: established that kind of the talking and formalize a collaboration
Speaker 1: for us. Well, we can only say we can use
Speaker 1: a ddicate session to talk about the faution dot com case,
Speaker 1: but simply say we wanted to use use the crypto
Speaker 1: blockchain technology to help the you know angel like like
Speaker 1: Foultion dot com. They are being devoted to collect, recycle
Speaker 1: the plastic waste from the ocean, saving the marine animals,
Speaker 1: clean clean up the water, those type of things. So
Speaker 1: we wanted to help them and to in let's say,
Speaker 1: to leverage with the crypto and blockchain to help they
Speaker 1: grow and help they to expand to more people, to
Speaker 1: get the support and even expand to more territory, not
Speaker 1: only in the coastline of Miami that's where they're based
Speaker 1: right and outreaching more users from the community, our reaching
Speaker 1: even more business collaboration with the Volsion dot com. So
Speaker 1: that's the second category, like Dana can really supporting us,
Speaker 1: and for sure there were there will be more. I
Speaker 1: mean just considering his connections, right, it's great knowing lots
Speaker 1: of the people. Even the power slab you can see
Speaker 1: you can see he brings a different type of celebrities,
Speaker 1: you know, to the Power Slab, and then you know,
Speaker 1: it's about the influences. It's about exposures, right and and
Speaker 1: we even find a very nice angle about the power Slab,
Speaker 1: like what we better Dow is doing is to incentively
Speaker 1: people to do the good thing, right And what about
Speaker 1: if you don't do a good thing, then you get
Speaker 1: s left. I mean not not not like literally guess,
Speaker 1: but it's like, okay, you got to give you a sign, right,
Speaker 1: you don't do good, you should do good. It's about
Speaker 1: the incentivized people motivate people in a different way, right, right.
Speaker 2: No, I love that. I love that he believes in
Speaker 2: the mission and the and the and the vision as well,
Speaker 2: because I saw in the video he put out he
Speaker 2: talked about some of the initiatives of sustainability. Uh, cleaner environment, yeah,
Speaker 2: people living more healthy yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, actually people got misedunderstanding about Dana wise perspective
Speaker 1: or even his folks, let's say, like Joe Rogan, you know,
Speaker 1: mask or or even Trump, right, they were they were
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, they're they're not sustainable guy, They're kind
Speaker 1: of against sustainability, which is actually not true based on
Speaker 1: what I understand, including Trump. Right, Actually, they're not against sustainability,
Speaker 1: so they feel the urgency of, you know, the challenges
Speaker 1: we're facing as a human kind. Well think about that,
Speaker 1: even Yellow Musk, the the tesla is to extend to
Speaker 1: let's say, to doing using the recycled energy, extend the
Speaker 1: longevity of the human kind on the Earth and space.
Speaker 1: Actually is even go to the multiplanetary. So he's definitely
Speaker 1: into this kind of concept. Right. But what they really
Speaker 1: against is the way of doing sustainability. Well, we know
Speaker 1: some of the case some of the corporations in the
Speaker 1: past use the ESG as kind of make it weaponize
Speaker 1: a green wash, right, that that's exactly opposite what we're
Speaker 1: trying to do because we're that that's why Dana likes that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's we're trying to do. Is okay, cut
Speaker 1: the crap, you know, don't talk, do it. The action
Speaker 1: is better than words. Right. So eventually it's back to
Speaker 1: the fundamental like you know, everybody do something and then
Speaker 1: you should get rewarded. Right, And I would say leveraging
Speaker 1: with a web sree, leveraging with the cryptoi hilities and
Speaker 1: it will becomes a real impact to make differences, make changes.
Speaker 2: Now, last time we spoke, we talked you give the
Speaker 2: example of like earning like the be Better token, doing
Speaker 2: certain things like charging your tesla. Oh yeah, and things
Speaker 2: like that. Any updates around those, any new type of scenarios, Well.
Speaker 1: We're I will never stop working on that, right and
Speaker 1: our mentality is like quick to launch, but we got
Speaker 1: to iterrate all the way up. But roughly we would
Speaker 1: say we're kind of driving for two aspects. One, well,
Speaker 1: everything is about the gross you know, it's about the
Speaker 1: gross means adoptions for getting more users to use that,
Speaker 1: getting more utilities of the token, getting more applications, those
Speaker 1: kind of way. So in terms of the token utility, Uh,
Speaker 1: but we just get the biby listed. It's a number
Speaker 1: two in terms of spot treating volume. So we're able
Speaker 1: to leveraging with the byby platform to outreach to more users.
Speaker 1: All right, and it's not gonna be the only one,
Speaker 1: for sure, it's the first one just open up. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a more exchange listed, you know that
Speaker 1: that's kind of in the roadmap. But sure we're gonna
Speaker 1: need to support from VVAM right to to to work
Speaker 1: with us together. And that's that's in terms of the
Speaker 1: utility of the token. And also there will be a
Speaker 1: we call it a Better card coming up very soon.
Speaker 1: Better card like a credit card. You can top up
Speaker 1: with better that visor and it will be not only
Speaker 1: to let's say for the Asia users or European users,
Speaker 1: even American users can be supported. Yeah, so you can
Speaker 1: go through the better Card page, going through the kyicmail process,
Speaker 1: and then you can top up your bat Visa or
Speaker 1: better token event to pay for everything you want. So
Speaker 1: that's a very simple direct payment solution to increase the
Speaker 1: utility of the better token, and also even better is
Speaker 1: to close the loop of the use cases. Right, So
Speaker 1: imagine imagine that the future user, they're going to a
Speaker 1: coffee shop to use a recycled mug other than the
Speaker 1: paper cup, they get to rewardse and next thing you
Speaker 1: can pay use that kind of rewards, pay for convenience
Speaker 1: stores like grocery shopping, and because you're you know, using,
Speaker 1: you are buying the fruits and vegetables and using the
Speaker 1: cycle bags and you are getting more rewards. And next thing,
Speaker 1: you go to the Tesla supercharger charger your EV and
Speaker 1: you're getting more rewards. So it's like you pray you
Speaker 1: get rewards, you pray, you get rewards, and basically it's
Speaker 1: it's a full cycle, it's a full ecosystem. Right then
Speaker 1: user were like, Okay, I want to stay here, so
Speaker 1: I think it's it's I a would say in terms
Speaker 1: of the mass adoption, lots of people talk about a
Speaker 1: mass adoption about a crypto, I would say there were
Speaker 1: actually two axpacts. One is to onboard the user, right
Speaker 1: to providing the social logging or the custodent service to
Speaker 1: allow those web to users even able to on board
Speaker 1: to web three or web sree applications. That's one side
Speaker 1: of story, but also more important, I would say, is
Speaker 1: maintain the user or like let the user to stay
Speaker 1: keep using that right. Eventually back to the fundamentals, which
Speaker 1: is the product is attractive enough and people want to
Speaker 1: use the product, Like the Internet. Let's say we use Twitter,
Speaker 1: we use Amazon, we use Facebook every day. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: because there was some functionality I want to use every day.
Speaker 1: The product itself makes like you know, uh, the talk right,
Speaker 1: So how do you keep the users stay is actually
Speaker 1: more even more important. How to just on boild the
Speaker 1: users otherwise let's say, yeah, you do the best marketing,
Speaker 1: but people coming they leave, right, so it's we we
Speaker 1: called we even callte that that's a farmer, right, crypto farmers.
Speaker 1: So more important is how do you keep the users
Speaker 1: stay so with this kind of utility and not not
Speaker 1: we we're not gonna stop here. We're gonna continue to expand.
Speaker 1: Even there was some uh let's say, very interesting projects
Speaker 1: gonna coming up, like with smart devices. They want to
Speaker 1: they even they want to launch it with a better token,
Speaker 1: Like you can use a better token to pay for
Speaker 1: those devices while using the device. You can mind token
Speaker 1: by doing like connecting to your daily actions.
Speaker 2: Any any detail, more details you can give.
Speaker 1: No for now, they're still walking on working on that,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's some idea. Yeah, but the idea is,
Speaker 1: you know, keep the users stay in the ecosystem, so
Speaker 1: you you earn, you you pay for use that to
Speaker 1: pay for whatever your daily actions, right, so that that
Speaker 1: kind of give a real rewards to the user. So
Speaker 1: that's one let's say focus, we have been well walking
Speaker 1: on the other part in terms of gross basically it's
Speaker 1: about a user grows, right simply as as a result
Speaker 1: or as our KBI. So far be better at all
Speaker 1: just pass a mini users bar. I really get excited
Speaker 1: about that, even though I never satisfy about this kind
Speaker 1: of result. Right, we're still aiming to reach to twenty
Speaker 1: million user, So one million is really a good bar
Speaker 1: milestone for us, and we're gonna continue to build on that.
Speaker 1: So the user grows is let's say, as one of
Speaker 1: our targets, like I said, it's KPI. So we're going
Speaker 1: to continue to you know, drive the user adoptions, uh,
Speaker 1: providing the better let's say tools infrastructures to enable user
Speaker 1: especially for web to user onboarding adoption. And the second part,
Speaker 1: like we just discussed, Dana is a freaking good marketer, right,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna try to leverage risk M to
Speaker 1: help us, and he's willing to do that and to
Speaker 1: help us to outrage two more users UFC fans, power
Speaker 1: SLAT fans, and even more than that type of assets
Speaker 1: we're trying to Dana is trying to bring more assets
Speaker 1: to us. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exciting. And I love both the UFC and
Speaker 2: of course v chain, and uh there's just a big
Speaker 2: market there and I think this initiative as PEA learn
Speaker 2: more about it, they will be attracted to it like
Speaker 2: I'm attracting to it. And then I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: as a bias because I'm in crypto, but it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: if I go to gym, I charge my tesla, I
Speaker 2: do these different things. Yes, exactly, Yeah, I would love
Speaker 2: to just passively earn.
Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah, there is actually application linked to the gym
Speaker 1: activity is buting up as well. And well, I cannot
Speaker 1: disgross too much, but let's say even UFC are very
Speaker 1: interesting about this application.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can't wait for that. Yeah, now you mentioned
Speaker 2: you got the by bit listings. I'm assuming there's other
Speaker 2: exchanges listings coming for.
Speaker 1: Bye bye Wow. It's following the process. Well, leaching has been,
Speaker 1: you know, doing that type of thing for the last
Speaker 1: seven eight years, so it's just by the process. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell us.
Speaker 2: A bit about v chain builders, because I saw you
Speaker 2: you tweeted out about this.
Speaker 1: Well, Vaching butter Is actually is one of the let's say,
Speaker 1: our technical team member basically in charge of the we
Speaker 1: call dev reil is a developer relationship. So let's say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really proud of vachain technology starting from the
Speaker 1: day one. I remember when we launched the vachin soul
Speaker 1: some community members posting feedbacks. After he reviewed the whole
Speaker 1: codes and try abuse stuff on vchain, he said, wow,
Speaker 1: vchin codes are neat right, very shocked, very brief, but
Speaker 1: you know, I get super pumped about that kind of feedback.
Speaker 1: But still, let's say, we wanted to organize a bit.
Speaker 1: There are too many things. You know, you can see
Speaker 1: the vachaing activity, the developer activity is growing up like crazy.
Speaker 1: Last week even reached to a number one yeah in
Speaker 1: the world, right, so there are lots of things going on.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to get the specific position from our
Speaker 1: technical team, our CTO team led by Antonio, to organize
Speaker 1: all of the tech technology knowledge based documents and even
Speaker 1: give let's say, contents about how to build vchain or
Speaker 1: how to catch up with the recent developments and how
Speaker 1: to let's say contribute to the vchin technology sets. Let's
Speaker 1: put this way, so that guy basically acting as not
Speaker 1: only himself, but also you know, the entire CTO team
Speaker 1: is kind of acting as a supporting role to any
Speaker 1: developer coming from the community, like how to build applications,
Speaker 1: how to use vchin to build the different type of applications,
Speaker 1: and on top of that, well, this year is a
Speaker 1: very important year for us in terms of technical upgrades
Speaker 1: because we're launching the Vchin renaissance with a three cycles,
Speaker 1: three phases. Actually, we just passed the first face we
Speaker 1: call Galatica. Galatica test just launched last week and we
Speaker 1: we welcome everyone to test, and we're running the artists
Speaker 1: as well, and the target day is to migrate to
Speaker 1: Mana around like end of June, right, and then the
Speaker 1: second phase is Hyabusa it's also a battleship name, but
Speaker 1: from Japanese culture. And then Hyabusa test gonna launched in
Speaker 1: September and then around the December then the Hyabusa will
Speaker 1: be gooes to the Mana as well. So there were
Speaker 1: lots of technical stuff going on. Uh, they will need
Speaker 1: more communications, more contents, So that's why we set up
Speaker 1: a specific role lead technical team to you know, bring
Speaker 1: more convenient contents and knowledge to the community developers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you got to you got to educate the developers,
Speaker 2: let them know what's happening to get them to come build.
Speaker 1: Well, I won't say like it's ducate because honestly it's
Speaker 1: it's It's quite easy if you just follow up the
Speaker 1: technical documents, you can easily debuilt, but we just say,
Speaker 1: try to bring the convenience to the developers, right, so
Speaker 1: we kind of make it more structured framework, and then
Speaker 1: you can go to one single place. You can get
Speaker 1: all of the details you need from the technical documents
Speaker 1: and you know, follow up through how to build the applications,
Speaker 1: and you can talk to the guy come to our
Speaker 1: you know, Twitter space and you know talking to our
Speaker 1: def real team to you know, even be more convenient.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's everything we do on this side.
Speaker 1: It just ease the building process.
Speaker 2: It's exciting. And tell us a bit about you know
Speaker 2: these specific are they layer twos? How do they function?
Speaker 1: How do you know that actually you are really resourceful?
Speaker 1: Layer two is one of the plan. But let's say
Speaker 1: we will more like let the community team to build
Speaker 1: on that. Let's say Layer two is basically acting as
Speaker 1: expansion to outreach let's say more than just v fan,
Speaker 1: more than just reaching community or reaching developers, but on
Speaker 1: board more developers. Even we don't actually mind, we want to.
Speaker 1: I still believe the blockchain should be inclusive, so is
Speaker 1: sustainability concepts. Everyone's mission, right, So, uh, the layer two
Speaker 1: actually there was a there was a community team. Actually
Speaker 1: couple of community team are trying to build a different
Speaker 1: type of the layer two should be coming up in
Speaker 1: Monkey's I would say I didn't follow the details because
Speaker 1: it's let's say, there are so many things to follow, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, one of the a few couple of a
Speaker 1: layer to a couple of the community projects are actually
Speaker 1: working on the layer to try to bring more you know,
Speaker 1: uh functionalities and also bridges extensions to more than just
Speaker 1: viachin community. I think it's right timing because you know,
Speaker 1: as I said, this year in terms of product level
Speaker 1: is about the Vigon renaissance, and the Vachon renaissance is
Speaker 1: going to have let's say more returns from by staking
Speaker 1: that into the product level. It's more about decentralization. So
Speaker 1: I'm sure with this type of program and you will
Speaker 1: attract more people like, well, you know how crypto works, right,
Speaker 1: you got a high from the user perspective. If you've
Speaker 1: got a high returns, why not I want to come in.
Speaker 1: I want to be part of that game. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's that's following the vach and renaissance progress,
Speaker 1: we're kind of expecting more people to come on to
Speaker 1: build on VA chain, providing more staking service, higher returns
Speaker 1: to the users. Then you know, why not layer two
Speaker 1: as well?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that makes sense. A question I just came
Speaker 2: to mind about the better token. As that ecosystem grows,
Speaker 2: would it make sense to have that token also go
Speaker 2: onto other blockchains where it's interopperable. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that makes sense, But or we just keep it in
Speaker 2: the eco system.
Speaker 1: I would say why not. It's as long as it's
Speaker 1: about the use case, right, as long as you can
Speaker 1: find the utility in the use case, or let's say
Speaker 1: the other community find out, well, that's real life application,
Speaker 1: that's what we needed in the crypto world. And if
Speaker 1: we build something together, I'm sure you can figure out
Speaker 1: a way, you know, to build that kind of connection.
Speaker 1: It's always about the user assets and user activities and
Speaker 1: then you know, use case will be the use use
Speaker 1: scenario will be the like foundation for everything.
Speaker 2: Right, Absolutely, it has to be about the US.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about one of your
Speaker 2: very big partnerships, and that's what Boston, the Boston Consulting Group.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know you've been meeting with them, and
Speaker 2: anything new there.
Speaker 1: Oh actually these uh, I was inviting them one of
Speaker 1: the senior partner, Guy Gillan, and doctor Guy Gillon and
Speaker 1: to come to this YO. Unfortunately, his schedule is a
Speaker 1: bit you know, difficult to manage, like last minutes. I
Speaker 1: try to go with him as a crypto style. I
Speaker 1: just give him heads up three days ago he was
Speaker 1: like okay, Rainhrack next time. Yeah. Boston Consulting Group has
Speaker 1: been really helpful. You know. Firstly, they are number two,
Speaker 1: I think number two in the consulting firm, especially in
Speaker 1: the US market. They are they have a lot of
Speaker 1: the resources and lots of the connection with different type
Speaker 1: of enterprises for sure. And also they are driving let's
Speaker 1: say the new narrative to let's say to the to
Speaker 1: the crypto market. So they're more acting as like okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not just supporting the vaching growth or progression progresses
Speaker 1: or project expansions those type of scenes. They're also running
Speaker 1: the narrative increase, narrative promotion, or try to drive like
Speaker 1: why the crypto market or what market what crypto market
Speaker 1: really missing? So they are kind of keep close eyes
Speaker 1: on the market sentiment and also driving the talks or
Speaker 1: conversations with the regulators with a different type of you know,
Speaker 1: uh partners and then eventually pushing let's say abstructed narrative
Speaker 1: to the market. I think it's very important. So it's
Speaker 1: more than for example, it's like every cycle we have
Speaker 1: in crypto, you know, we have a different narrative versus
Speaker 1: Main's team. Right in twenty seventy it was il or IXO,
Speaker 1: those type of things, and then twenty one basically driven
Speaker 1: by a DeFi NFT. So what's the next, right, what's next?
Speaker 1: So I've been meeting with BZG. I think it's the
Speaker 1: right timing right now, you know, we should BCG going
Speaker 1: to come up with some analysis, narrative building, and then
Speaker 1: I really love that. It's really about, you know, following
Speaker 1: the fundamentals in terms of value creation, utility, real life application,
Speaker 1: that kind of angle. I think the entire crypto word
Speaker 1: needs that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and such great timing to your point because here
Speaker 2: in the United States it's opening up for crypto legislation.
Speaker 2: Congress is going to push to market structure legislation this year,
Speaker 2: stable legislation. A lot of businesses are going to be
Speaker 2: looking to build yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well let's say, if you are trying to
Speaker 1: manage a conversation with regulators. Right, so the regulator. Imagine
Speaker 1: that regulator is saying like, Okay, we're different, We're not
Speaker 1: as the same as you know, the last administration. We're
Speaker 1: opened up. We embrace the whole crypto word. So what's
Speaker 1: your proposal? What are your beauty? How do I support
Speaker 1: you in terms of from the regulation side? Right? So
Speaker 1: you got to you gotta show the real stuff, the
Speaker 1: real application, show the real value. How going to change
Speaker 1: people's life? How going to motivate people to do the
Speaker 1: right saying that type of scenes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny because I've been listening to
Speaker 2: different podcasts about what's going to motivate human beings moving
Speaker 2: forward As the world is changing. You know, people are
Speaker 2: certain businesses are finding hard to get people to come
Speaker 2: back to offices. Certain people don't want to work in
Speaker 2: certain industries. It's like this, this fervor has been lost.
Speaker 2: What's going to be the incentivization? I think it's this
Speaker 2: in the economy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a token economy. Well I think there
Speaker 1: were two angles about that. One is, like you said,
Speaker 1: if you we try to drive a big change across
Speaker 1: the whole world, you know, across a different culture, different language,
Speaker 1: different burials, and the incentivization it will be much much
Speaker 1: better than just education or even the punishment. Right, well,
Speaker 1: we gotta, we gotta. Let's say, don't understate the human nature, right,
Speaker 1: especially about the dark side of the game. Manager. So
Speaker 1: instead of saying like, oh, you don't do this, please
Speaker 1: don't do this, don't use plastic, don't use paper that much,
Speaker 1: or don't creating the waste, or don't threw the waste
Speaker 1: into the ocean, or you get fined. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1: You gotta take so much effort to control this, right
Speaker 1: or to find this. We know that. So instead of
Speaker 1: doing this, let's do up way. Let's try to incentivize
Speaker 1: people to do the right thing, to do the positive
Speaker 1: and eventually become a positive behavior of yourself. Right. Given
Speaker 1: an example, this morning, when I leave my hotel, I
Speaker 1: feel so bad because I didn't bring my mug with me.
Speaker 1: It becomes one of my routines of my one of
Speaker 1: my behaviors. But I still there are some meetings running
Speaker 1: in the morning. I kind of rush the time, and
Speaker 1: I feel so bad, like I kind of hold a
Speaker 1: coffin until now. Because you have a recycled MAUG. I
Speaker 1: feel like, okay, that's I feel good to use that. Right.
Speaker 1: So that's a typical example using the incentivized model to
Speaker 1: to to let's say, grow a user behavior about that.
Speaker 1: So that's that's one meaning the other part, I think
Speaker 1: even bigger. It's from the macro level. You know, it's
Speaker 1: about what what what exactly they're doing is we're doing
Speaker 1: is the tokenization of human actions or human efforts or
Speaker 1: human value, right, I think it's even more revolutionary change
Speaker 1: in terms of digitalization. We all know we're talking about
Speaker 1: we're gonna live in the digital world. We are living
Speaker 1: the digital world, and we will live even more digital world.
Speaker 1: Everything will be by data. Everything will you know, collaborating
Speaker 1: with AI and data is AI's source like a few
Speaker 1: of the ais. Right, So how are you gonna you know,
Speaker 1: build the future business model or value model or even
Speaker 1: money highdation model directly to say, from more and more data?
Speaker 1: Then you've got to go to the data like original
Speaker 1: place of the data from the beginning. So helping to
Speaker 1: digitalize user actions, user assets, find the value coming from
Speaker 1: user data. That's actually the what we're really doing, right,
Speaker 1: using the and and also following the web. Three spirits
Speaker 1: is user owns the data, right, you own the data,
Speaker 1: But how do you monetize that? How do you valualize that?
Speaker 1: You got to I mean that that's a very funny,
Speaker 1: very interesting analysis I did with BPG together, you know,
Speaker 1: with debating each other and I try to explore and
Speaker 1: going through the workshop. Think about that. Let's say one
Speaker 1: piece of data from one human being, it's not that valuable, right,
Speaker 1: you don't you don't see the value. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to valualize that, right. I give an example, when you
Speaker 1: drive a EV for ten thousand miles a year, you
Speaker 1: might result in like fifty dollars two one hundred dollars
Speaker 1: C two. But you know, think about that, even accumulative
Speaker 1: data coming from one single person, even lasting for one year,
Speaker 1: that value is still too small, too fractional. Right, not
Speaker 1: that no, no one we're willing to buy, like okay,
Speaker 1: I want to buy your piece of data or pray
Speaker 1: for your data for even for a whole year. No
Speaker 1: one would do that, right, But putting together like for
Speaker 1: one minute users, ten minute users, twenty minute users, even
Speaker 1: the billion users, then the value is going to be massive.
Speaker 1: But also the other challenges even you got massive value
Speaker 1: from this massive data, and how gonna how gonna dispute
Speaker 1: the value to everything else, everybody, every owner who contributing
Speaker 1: the data. Right if you go with the traditional way
Speaker 1: like using the centralized platform to do that, and we
Speaker 1: already know like it's not that efficient, right, and also
Speaker 1: the platform kind of be the dominator in this ecosystem,
Speaker 1: they side of everything. So using them, Let's say, in
Speaker 1: my view, the webs three is really about enabling power.
Speaker 1: Each individual person and token going to play very important
Speaker 1: role as a value carrier in this in this ecosystem,
Speaker 1: and the platform, whatever is the small chondral or blocking platform,
Speaker 1: just play their own role as an infrastructure, right, they
Speaker 1: will have their benefits as an infrastructure. They are kind
Speaker 1: of barterer is the gas fees, the native tokens value
Speaker 1: going up those type of scenes. But every individual user
Speaker 1: by participating this type of ecosystem and getting the value
Speaker 1: eventually from token value, that's the Web three that I
Speaker 1: would say, that's most likely the promising Web three business
Speaker 1: model in the future. So what I keep chilling those
Speaker 1: enterprise partners, including the BG, I say, whatever we're going
Speaker 1: to explore with the future web free business model we
Speaker 1: have one simple principle is you we gotta have token
Speaker 1: in the play token the application, toking the system directly,
Speaker 1: not just for guest fees, not just for guest feed
Speaker 1: but also for value carriers, value transmission, value sharing with
Speaker 1: the entire ecosystem.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. I'm so fascinated about the future of how
Speaker 2: all these things are going to work, and like you said,
Speaker 2: people being able to own their own data, their own activity,
Speaker 2: and being incentivized for all these things. It's it's just
Speaker 2: so fascinating. Are there other partnerships you want to highlight
Speaker 2: anything new?
Speaker 1: You you always been quite well. Actually, I'm getting quite
Speaker 1: exciting about the let's say, in the coming few weeks,
Speaker 1: we're expanding more in terms of again again the two
Speaker 1: stre the top line strategy priority for US one V
Speaker 1: better doll grows to enable the ecosystem. I have to
Speaker 1: point out building V battert doll is actually building v chain, right,
Speaker 1: It's a value growing and executing on V chain blockchain.
Speaker 1: You're going to bring more value on that. So building
Speaker 1: v batter doll is actually building V chain blockchain. And
Speaker 1: you know we're going to continue to work with UFC
Speaker 1: D Nay and even though all of his connection continue
Speaker 1: to expand for the gross and driving the mass adoptions.
Speaker 1: Right now, we just passed the first milestone as one
Speaker 1: minute user, next milestone five ten, twenty one hundred million,
Speaker 1: and eventually my goal is going to one beni user platform.
Speaker 1: So that's that's one top strategy. The other strategy is
Speaker 1: about Vachin Runissans. Yeah, there will be some partnership coming
Speaker 1: board because only stay following the von runner since uh,
Speaker 1: the real purpose is we wanted to address a very
Speaker 1: very obvious challenge in the crypto word is try to
Speaker 1: enable the real decentralization. What doesn't mean is, you know,
Speaker 1: for the entire crypto word whatever the pow or pus
Speaker 1: when we come to talk about the decentralization even which
Speaker 1: is kind of cornerstone of the blockchain or Cyberry crypto word, right,
Speaker 1: but still we find, let's say, in terms of execution implementation,
Speaker 1: it's not that decentralized, because you gotta be you gotta
Speaker 1: have enough technology capability then you can run the notes
Speaker 1: and then you can run either miners or mining pool
Speaker 1: or ps nodes. Right, and the normal people they say,
Speaker 1: if I don't have maybe you don't even have the
Speaker 1: technical capability to run someone note right, so how are
Speaker 1: you going to participate in the decentralization. How are you
Speaker 1: going to enable or secure the decentralization. Well, you've got
Speaker 1: to choose. Unfortunately middle mare right, you got to give
Speaker 1: away your tokay to somebody else to run a staking
Speaker 1: service or pose. I'm not saying like it's not right.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's convenient, right, it's a service. But
Speaker 1: how can you make they say ensure the decentralization and
Speaker 1: eventually you will merged or converge into several big deals
Speaker 1: or big guys are running or controlling somehow the whole error. Right,
Speaker 1: that's not right. So we the Vichion renascesance design is
Speaker 1: to enable the non technical people. You can directly participate
Speaker 1: in the PRODUCTO level. So you're staking will not no
Speaker 1: need again, it's it's open word. You can do whatever
Speaker 1: you want, but we give you the option even you
Speaker 1: are not technical persons, and you can run a staking
Speaker 1: by yourself and using the n f T. That's a
Speaker 1: novel design. Nobody else is doing that using the n
Speaker 1: f T represent you know, representing the VTU state, participating
Speaker 1: the protocols number one number two, your protocol rewards. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna go through any middle man. You're gonna go
Speaker 1: go from you know, coming from the product level directly.
Speaker 1: So by doing that you are really be part of
Speaker 1: the real decentralization, right so that we call it the
Speaker 1: delegator role with the NFT, you know, upgrading from the
Speaker 1: current x node economic node you guys are playing, you
Speaker 1: will playing the real decentralization role. So so and also
Speaker 1: by doing that, based on our calculation or simulation, it's
Speaker 1: quite good returns, to be honest. So we're there. There
Speaker 1: were many institutions. Well that's actually main purpose. I'm here
Speaker 1: in New York. I'm talking to many institutions. I gotta
Speaker 1: have a couple of meetings this afternoon as well, and
Speaker 1: they are very interesting about that. You know, for first day,
Speaker 1: we've got a good narrative, fundamentals, real life application as
Speaker 1: the main theme in the VCHING blockchain. Secondary the VCHING
Speaker 1: renaissance is guarantee the real definiorization, and it definitely follows
Speaker 1: through you know, the like a regulation compliance requirement like
Speaker 1: MICA even for the future US ones, it definitely follows through.
Speaker 1: Number three is also you know, generating quite good returns
Speaker 1: whatever for the validators or even the delegators. We're talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, from seven to fifteen percent, even that kind
Speaker 1: of range. Well, I mean it's just a simular right,
Speaker 1: So lots of the institutions quite interesting, like okay, I
Speaker 1: want to I want to set up the node, I
Speaker 1: want to be validator, I want to be delegator. I
Speaker 1: want to even provide that kind of service for my
Speaker 1: clients and participating that decentialization together. So yeah, we we
Speaker 1: I mean, once we're gonna we have a few quite
Speaker 1: a lineup pipelines right now, and once in boarld, I'm
Speaker 1: sure they will they will make an announcement because they
Speaker 1: will make announcement like if I will run a validator,
Speaker 1: please delegate your NFT to me, right, and then we
Speaker 1: grew up together and the rewards together, even the reward
Speaker 1: is going to be automatically disputed by the small countract,
Speaker 1: but we're going to work as a team, right, So
Speaker 1: every validator will disclose to the public saying like okay,
Speaker 1: I'm which one, I'm running the validator, and please delegate
Speaker 1: to me something like that.
Speaker 2: That's amazing and sunny, you know, you're just talking about institutions,
Speaker 2: un validators and operating nodes. And it's gonna be amazing
Speaker 2: because with legislation and clarity coming in.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, timing, that's what I'm saying. Time, right time. Well,
Speaker 1: we just read about the news. Even the game stop
Speaker 1: is like gonna spend a one point for to buy
Speaker 1: bigcoin and why not, you know, those traditional enterprise gonna
Speaker 1: go to even more, going to even further, you know,
Speaker 1: to let's say, go into the crypto word, not just
Speaker 1: buying hold the big coins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, it's exciting, Sonny, and uh, you know,
Speaker 2: I appreciate the updates and you know, maybe you know,
Speaker 2: we'll have another interview, so.
Speaker 1: I will be you know, shrilled to come back to
Speaker 1: have another conversation with you, for sure.
Speaker 2: I want to end it on a fun question because
Speaker 2: before we were recording, we were talking about how good
Speaker 2: the food is in Italy and I'm curious, what is
Speaker 2: your favorite Italian dish?
Speaker 1: I would say it's a caponara. It's a very nice pasta.
Speaker 1: And also it's made by X in the natural process.
Speaker 1: Oh it's not that healthy, per se, but you know,
Speaker 1: once a while, let's say once a week, once two weeks,
Speaker 1: I really love that, so Capanara is my favorite pasta Italy.
Speaker 2: Funny pleasure having.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having you back on.
Speaker 2: But really great stuff. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you