Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to a new episode of the
Speaker 1: Poker Go Podcast. My name is Donny Peters, and I
Speaker 1: will not be the only voice you are hearing on
Speaker 1: this microphone. I got my guy Remco Rinkim along side
Speaker 1: of me. Plus we got some audio from plenty of
Speaker 1: players as well. We're gonna get into all of that
Speaker 1: as we recap day one of the w s AP
Speaker 1: Main Event Final Table. I guess day nine overall, ten, whatever, twelve, eighteen.
Speaker 1: I feel like today was four days in one with
Speaker 1: how long these guys played, well over one hundred hands
Speaker 1: on day one. The plan coming into the day was
Speaker 1: to go from nine down to six. They didn't even
Speaker 1: make it there. They only got down to seven. They
Speaker 1: ended up calling it quits at the end of level
Speaker 1: forty one. Lucas Jumalan's the chip leader. Han Feng had
Speaker 1: a surge. He's second in chips. Greg went the other way.
Speaker 1: He's the short stack, but he's still alive. It just
Speaker 1: absolutely crazy scenes here at Horseshoe Down on the Loss
Speaker 1: of Vegas trip Remcro just first off the cuff, thoughts,
Speaker 1: what did you see here? The atmosphere, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to throw at me, just throw it.
Speaker 2: At me, Well, this is why past my bedtime.
Speaker 1: That's very true, very true.
Speaker 2: I gotta correct myself. We've we've now made day ten.
Speaker 2: This was day nine. And the reason I was thinking
Speaker 2: of that is because I spoke to Michael Gagliano, who
Speaker 2: said that it's important to mention that he's made day ten,
Speaker 2: which is not something you ever say when you play
Speaker 2: poker poker tournaments. But yeah, it's it's it's it's kind
Speaker 2: of surreal, this this final table business. I was never
Speaker 2: fortunate enough to travel out for November nine because I
Speaker 2: didn't live in Vegas at the time, so my final
Speaker 2: liple memories of the main event are sort of in
Speaker 2: the post November nine era, and I've been to all
Speaker 2: of them since, which have all been really cool experiences
Speaker 2: in and of itself. And this is another first for
Speaker 2: us because you know, at poker Go, we're no longer
Speaker 2: doing our thing the way we have in the past,
Speaker 2: so we're a little bit more on the sidelines, which
Speaker 2: you know, it's you know, it's neither good nor bad
Speaker 2: for our experience, but it does change the way we
Speaker 2: we sort of move around here a little bit and
Speaker 2: you know, trying to find our footing. But the one
Speaker 2: thing that I think cannot be understated is how freaking
Speaker 2: cool this whole set is, this whole stage, the entire production.
Speaker 2: Of course, tons of people from pocer Goo is still
Speaker 2: you know, involved in some capacity or at least people
Speaker 2: that we work with at poker Go. And just the energy,
Speaker 2: the atmosphere, the excitement from from the players, the rail
Speaker 2: you can even see, you know, the staff is buzzing,
Speaker 2: the waiters are walking one step faster. There's just a
Speaker 2: certain energy in the room. Ran into Michaelmas, Rocky, Maria
Speaker 2: j Brin Kenny was walking around. There was like a
Speaker 2: VIP lounge for the sponsor Solana. So all in all,
Speaker 2: fantastic first night of poker. From that perspective, the atmosphere
Speaker 2: was definitely great, but don him curious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 2: I definitely felt like things fell very flat when you
Speaker 2: look at this from a poker fan slash consumer perspective,
Speaker 2: just because of you know, I guess the expected style
Speaker 2: of play coming into the final table.
Speaker 1: I think there's two different buckets for how fans would
Speaker 1: look at this first day of the Final table. There
Speaker 1: are the diehard poker enthusiasts who I think you and
Speaker 1: I would probably fall under, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: listeners of this podcast would also fall into that category
Speaker 1: as well, where they love the shit right, they don't
Speaker 1: care if it might be ICM ball out there and
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more boring, and the pre flop
Speaker 1: all ins just aren't there every other hand and that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But then on the other side of things,
Speaker 1: you know, this is now back on ESPN. This first
Speaker 1: night was on ESPN two. They're going to be moving
Speaker 1: to ESPN one or just ESPN on Wednesday or sorry,
Speaker 1: Tuesday and Wednesday. And if you're just flipping through the channels,
Speaker 1: you're looking for something to land on. The kids have
Speaker 1: gone to sleep, you know, maybe the wife is dozing
Speaker 1: off as well. You're like, what am I gonna land on?
Speaker 1: There's not really that many sports on, especially this late
Speaker 1: at night. Oh what, Poker's back on ESPN. But then
Speaker 1: you start watching it, and if you're more of a
Speaker 1: casual viewer era as Nick Shulman might say, a civilian,
Speaker 1: you maybe you're like, well, what this is so boring?
Speaker 1: No one's doing anything. You know, there's one guy dressed
Speaker 1: like mister Wall Street bets. There's another guy looking like
Speaker 1: do Flamingo over there with the pink boa no buttons
Speaker 1: on his shirt. That's Han Fang. We'll get into all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff later. But for as loud as
Speaker 1: the players and the rail and everything, the actual play
Speaker 1: wasn't that loud, right, So I think it depending on
Speaker 1: what side of a fan you are. If you're the
Speaker 1: die hard, you love it and you like getting into
Speaker 1: the nitty grittiness of it all, and you don't mind
Speaker 1: the small wall approach and the tight folds that people
Speaker 1: are making because you understand the ICM dynamics at play
Speaker 1: and that's the game within the game. But for the
Speaker 1: casual fan, you might be like, where's the aces versus queens?
Speaker 1: Where's the suck out, where's the ace king versus you know,
Speaker 1: the the pocket tens and the guy flops an ace
Speaker 1: and rivers that, Like, where is all this sort of stuff?
Speaker 1: Like what is happening? So it's hard, right. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a good first night. I thought that night
Speaker 1: one was gonna go like this. You know, we had
Speaker 1: some pre we had our regular work meetings, and I
Speaker 1: know some of the people were saying like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: gonna go so fast. I thought it was so fast,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, no shot. Like, if you
Speaker 1: watch these guys playing on day eight getting down to
Speaker 1: the final table, a lot of them once the page
Speaker 1: jumps got bigger and bigger, it was like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: gotta kind of lock down. And that's also what allowed
Speaker 1: Lucas Jumlan to get that huge chip lead, right, And
Speaker 1: then you couple that with the fact that they give
Speaker 1: these guys two and a half to three weeks off.
Speaker 1: Everyone's going home, all these players, I mean, even someone
Speaker 1: like Greg Mueller, Like I know, he's not necessarily the
Speaker 1: most studied player out there, and you touched a lot
Speaker 1: on the Faciase podcast with him, by the way, listen
Speaker 1: to that if you haven't already, it's back on this
Speaker 1: feed or on the Pokagro YouTube channel. But even someone
Speaker 1: like him, he sure has like Sean Buchannan in his
Speaker 1: ear like Okay, you should do this, you should do that.
Speaker 1: And that was evidence on the second hand of the
Speaker 1: day when Michael Gagliano opens early Position and Mueller fold
Speaker 1: days Jack suited, So it's like immediately out of the gate,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, that's how Greg's gonna approach this, and
Speaker 1: He's the last one you would expect to approach it
Speaker 1: like that. Now, the play did kind of loosen up
Speaker 1: a little bit, and players acted a little bit more
Speaker 1: cavalier as things went on, But early on it was
Speaker 1: very evident that the players were going to just kind
Speaker 1: of lock in. And I think part of that is, like,
Speaker 1: obviously the pay jumps getting much bigger. You're now under
Speaker 1: the final table, bright lights, everyone is watching. You know,
Speaker 1: you're on ESPN two Live. You probably don't want to
Speaker 1: make an ass to yourself and make some big mistake,
Speaker 1: And then you probably had a lot of people in
Speaker 1: your ears being like, Hey, this is the chip position,
Speaker 1: this is your ICM value, this is how you got
Speaker 1: to approach things. These are the only hands that you
Speaker 1: can raise from early position like that, you can't do this,
Speaker 1: this and this. You can't just be defending from the
Speaker 1: big blind with the Queen three off suit anymore. Like
Speaker 1: it's not just how it is. You can't go broke
Speaker 1: with top pair or second pair. If you have a
Speaker 1: flush straw, don't go nuts. Like all that sort of
Speaker 1: stuff just starts getting into everyone's minds and then they
Speaker 1: kind of just play everything a bit more close to
Speaker 1: the vest, which we saw you also had two short
Speaker 1: stacks who really weren't going anywhere. That didn't help, you know,
Speaker 1: the speed of play or the excitement of play out there.
Speaker 1: But again, the diehard in me did enjoy it. I
Speaker 1: thought the rails were pretty good overall.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: I did want find myself wanting a little bit more
Speaker 1: chanting like they did get after its Yeah, like that's
Speaker 1: when it started to really pick up, right, But before
Speaker 1: that I expected to see a little bit more chanting,
Speaker 1: mostly from I think Greg's rail Mueller Israel, you know.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thought that was good overall, and I'm
Speaker 1: excited to see what happens going forward. Han Feng had
Speaker 1: himself one hell of a day. Started second to last
Speaker 1: and Chips finished second to first, and Chips so had
Speaker 1: an incredible run of things. Probably, I mean, we'll talk
Speaker 1: to him a little bit later. I interviewed him afterwards,
Speaker 1: and he'll tell you like, he couldn't have imagined a
Speaker 1: better start. Lucas Jumlan, he started off kind of hot,
Speaker 1: then he had a lull where it was like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: here comes the slide, and then he hit this run
Speaker 1: of hands where it was like five six, seven, eight,
Speaker 1: hands in a row where he just won them all
Speaker 1: and it was like boom, I'm back over two hundred million.
Speaker 2: Here we go.
Speaker 1: Greg Mueller had some interesting moments throughout it, like he
Speaker 1: was he pulled out the check dark at one point
Speaker 1: we were both like, what the hell is happening here?
Speaker 2: I think it's important with this in the Jumalan first
Speaker 2: because you know he touched briefly upon getting coached by
Speaker 2: Patrick Leonard, and also how you know, and also you know,
Speaker 2: me being face to face with him talking to him
Speaker 2: just minutes after play concluded. Just the guy just seems
Speaker 2: to be made for this spot. He's so cold, he's
Speaker 2: so relaxed, he just seems ready for the moment. And
Speaker 2: that was great to hear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, let's just go to it right now.
Speaker 1: So here is Lucas Jumalan immediately following the bagging of
Speaker 1: chips talking to Remco.
Speaker 2: So, Lucas, this first night for you, it seems as
Speaker 2: though you had a game plan, you stuck to it.
Speaker 2: You were able to pressure your opponents, which is something
Speaker 2: you of course have to do with the big stack.
Speaker 2: But how you look back on it, are you satisfied
Speaker 2: with where you are right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean satisfied to still be in the tournament
Speaker 3: right and what the chip lead still is great and
Speaker 3: we're just gonna adapt to the situation tomorrow and whatever
Speaker 3: whatever they throw out as we'll be okay.
Speaker 2: Patrick Leonard told me and Donnie before play started. He goes,
Speaker 2: I'm on team USA for today, and he posted some
Speaker 2: stuff on his stories studying with you, perhaps running some sims.
Speaker 2: What wasn't been like to work with someone like Pats?
Speaker 3: You know, he's the emptt goat, so it's just been
Speaker 3: truly an honor and I can't thank him enough. And
Speaker 3: you know, I wouldn't have played nearly as well today
Speaker 3: if I hadn't put.
Speaker 4: In the work with him.
Speaker 3: I'm just so thankful for all of his support and
Speaker 3: time that he's put in him.
Speaker 2: What is this daven like? Was it what you expected
Speaker 2: it to be? Did you feel any more adrenaline? Were
Speaker 2: able to sort of keep a levelhead?
Speaker 3: You know, I've like never gotten too high, too low.
Speaker 4: It's just like not me.
Speaker 3: So you know, I'm I'm good. I'm ready to go
Speaker 3: tomorrow and we'll it'll probably set in after it's all over,
Speaker 3: but you know, I'm just just right in the wave.
Speaker 1: So one of the things I would be curious and
Speaker 1: we can never like replay this. But had Lucas Jummelan
Speaker 1: ended the night, had the night come to an end
Speaker 1: when he was on the slide, I wonder how he
Speaker 1: would have talked to you right right like, because he
Speaker 1: got down to a run one hundred and fifty hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty million, right, and it would look like not
Speaker 1: that he was really ever in jeopardy of losing the chipley,
Speaker 1: but you had Lori Sascelotti starting to come up. You
Speaker 1: had Han Fang starting to come up at the end,
Speaker 1: and it was like, wait, hold on. Even at one
Speaker 1: point you had Greg Mueller starting to come up. He
Speaker 1: hit over eighty million, it was like, wait, is this
Speaker 1: gonna start to go the wrong way for Jumalan. Obviously
Speaker 1: he did course correct towards the end. He caught some
Speaker 1: heat to finish things out. So spirits are high. But
Speaker 1: you know, I just in an alternate universe, I would
Speaker 1: have been like, hey, your first question would have been
Speaker 1: something like, hey, maybe it didn't go as you might
Speaker 1: have expected. You know, how are you going to kind
Speaker 1: of regroup overnight, refocus, lock back in for tomorrow? I said,
Speaker 1: On the last podcast, when I was doing it myself,
Speaker 1: just kind of previewing the table, I said, I think
Speaker 1: this kid wants the smoke, meaning I think he wants
Speaker 1: to be champion, he wants the spotlight, and I don't
Speaker 1: think that. I think there are two different things to want.
Speaker 1: There's wanting to win the WSP main event. There's wanting
Speaker 1: to win ten million dollars and like, you get the
Speaker 1: glory of the bracelet all that sort of stuff, But
Speaker 1: do you really want to be Poker's ambassador and be
Speaker 1: in the spotlight. That is an entirely different thing, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of just thrust on players, and I don't
Speaker 1: think everyone in their heart of hearts would admit that
Speaker 1: they want that. They want to everything else and then
Speaker 1: they don't want to have to do that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I think Lucas Jumelan wants it all, every single part
Speaker 1: of it, which I think is great.
Speaker 2: And I think Patter Lenard also tweeted or put it
Speaker 2: on Instagram that this kid is more ready than anyone
Speaker 2: to be the champion, And you make a really good point.
Speaker 2: There's a difference between wanting to win ten million and
Speaker 2: wanting to be the champion. And carried carried that torture
Speaker 2: or how you want to call it, because that was
Speaker 2: very apparent from the way he was sort of carrying
Speaker 2: himself around the table. He also, you know, in true
Speaker 2: chip leader style. You know, we think back of guys
Speaker 2: like Joe McKee and kry Aldemir Jose Ensan who had
Speaker 2: dominating chip leads. He also played like a chip leader.
Speaker 2: And there was one streak where you and I were
Speaker 2: watching as we were dipping in and out. I think
Speaker 2: he won five or six hands in a row, and
Speaker 2: then a double up hand Fang, which was sort of
Speaker 2: a pivotal hand. That sort of change changed things around
Speaker 2: for Feng, who had been short for a very long time,
Speaker 2: literally just waiting for for a hand for him then
Speaker 2: to get it in. I was thinking it was Queen
Speaker 2: Jack of clubs on Queen ten nine with two clubs
Speaker 2: versus Ace four with only the ace of clubs from
Speaker 2: Jumalan that allowed him to double up, and that sort
Speaker 2: of you know, halted his I guess way of running
Speaker 2: over the table for just a few minutes, but he
Speaker 2: continued pressing and pressing and pressing, and he back to
Speaker 2: two hundred and twelve million chips. Eighty five big blinds
Speaker 2: Han Feg second and chips with forty three bigs, which
Speaker 2: you know very unlikely, but you had a chance to
Speaker 2: talk to him. I did talk to him afterwards. Cameras
Speaker 2: were all over this guy, rightfully so, wearing that pink bow.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned. If you guys haven't seen the photos,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen the coverage, you need to check
Speaker 1: it out. For what Han Feng showed up in I
Speaker 1: had to ask him about it in the interview. Also
Speaker 1: asked him about his day. Here is me talking to
Speaker 1: Han Feng immediately following play. All right, Han Feng, Yeah,
Speaker 1: second shortest to come into the day, second biggest stack,
Speaker 1: going through the secondary of the final table. Could you
Speaker 1: have imagined a better day?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: This is this is like if I could choose.
Speaker 2: An outcome, this was it. This was it.
Speaker 6: I don't think I get much better way unless like
Speaker 6: somehow I have more chips in lucas, but that's almost
Speaker 6: impossible mathematically, right, But this is as good as it gets.
Speaker 6: So second and chips come back tomorrow five PM. A
Speaker 6: lot of time to prepare. I'm a little sweaty, a
Speaker 6: little stinky, very thirsty. Uh yeah, they got really good
Speaker 6: shots on me. I can't wait to see those.
Speaker 1: So talk to me about the mindset where you're battling
Speaker 1: for as one of the shorter stacks for much of
Speaker 1: the day, right, and then you get that late serge.
Speaker 1: You know, how is you just stay in the moment
Speaker 1: and be able to focus through it all when you're
Speaker 1: you're when you're rushing towards the end of the day.
Speaker 6: It's just hand by hand, man, That's all I can say.
Speaker 6: It's just hand by hand. Uh, just know my strategy
Speaker 6: go as I like. It's just one hand at a time.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's just as simple as that. I
Speaker 6: don't have like a uh, I'm not like trying to
Speaker 6: do anything. It's just you know, I know my spot,
Speaker 6: I know my hand, and then I just I just
Speaker 6: play that no no ego, no.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It kept going over to your rail quite a bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe not the biggest rail here at final table, but
Speaker 1: definitely one that you're close with. You talked a lot,
Speaker 1: you got Michael Joe's up there helping you coaching. Just
Speaker 1: talk to me about having that support system right behind you.
Speaker 2: It's awesome.
Speaker 6: It's kind of like a nice little mental stability sort
Speaker 6: of thing.
Speaker 7: Keep me saying, and yeah.
Speaker 1: He got picked out.
Speaker 4: The guy was screaming. I don't know if you guys heard.
Speaker 1: That's unfortunate.
Speaker 6: But yeah, he's like a lot of people here that
Speaker 6: are like big brothers to me. Love the support from Houston,
Speaker 6: repping Houston. Maybe we do it again, Tomaio, And now
Speaker 6: I'm next.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the fit. I got, what went
Speaker 1: into it? What's the inspiration behind it?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 6: So I told the other interviewers early on before we started,
Speaker 6: this is I'm dope Flamingo from One Piece, which is
Speaker 6: One Piece of anime. I think it's the most profitable
Speaker 6: anime there is. And I was watching so he's like
Speaker 6: in one of the he was one of the arcs
Speaker 6: in one of the arcs are I'm very tired in
Speaker 6: one of the major arcs of One Piece where everything
Speaker 6: starts to happen. This is the main villain in that.
Speaker 6: And and I was watching all this during days like
Speaker 6: three to six on day breaks.
Speaker 2: I just got very inspired. I felt the calling.
Speaker 6: So I bought this uniform across student and I was
Speaker 6: just the biggest thing was hoping his fit right, and a.
Speaker 1: Fit amazing, A fit amazing.
Speaker 2: I can't complain.
Speaker 6: So, yeah, and it's good TV.
Speaker 2: It's good TV.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's definitely great TV.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, last question here, So now you're second in
Speaker 1: Chip's heading forward to the second day. What's the mentality now?
Speaker 1: You know, before you're probably trying to ladder up a
Speaker 1: couple of spots, but now it's like, I got a
Speaker 1: shot to win this game.
Speaker 2: Thing.
Speaker 4: I was never trying the ladder, that's my answer.
Speaker 1: You heard Hans ay they're tired, thirsty. Right before the interview,
Speaker 1: before I officially started asking him questions, He's like, is
Speaker 1: there a water around? There's no water around. I was like, no, man,
Speaker 1: it just looks like empty beers everywhere.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's the opposite of Greg Mueller who kept saying, man,
Speaker 2: drink so much water. I have to peel like every
Speaker 2: he So.
Speaker 1: For people who don't know a little bit inside baseball here,
Speaker 1: but we were set up in media row. There's a
Speaker 1: curtain between us. Then there's a bunch of like the
Speaker 1: salon of VIP Lounge or the production area, et cetera.
Speaker 1: We're a good fifty to one hundred feet away from
Speaker 1: the table. We can't exactly see the table due to
Speaker 1: the curtains. But they didn't have official breaks due to
Speaker 1: the coverage, right, But they did have commercial breaks of
Speaker 1: course on ESPN two, and during those, let's say anywhere
Speaker 1: from two minutes to maybe five, six, seven minutes of
Speaker 1: a commercial break, the players would get up and run
Speaker 1: to the bathroom. And Mueller for sure was the most
Speaker 1: frequent bathroom goer by far. Oh yeah, Laurie Sascolotti always
Speaker 1: went swell those two. Han Fang, I would say it
Speaker 1: was a probably third. But other than that, I don't
Speaker 1: think I saw Lucas Jumlan one time. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: he probably didn't drink any water today. Mario Boose I
Speaker 1: didn't see him at all, you know. But but Mueller
Speaker 1: was back here a plenty, which was which was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: Mueller seemed in good spirits overall with things. He was
Speaker 1: kind of all over the place, as I think we
Speaker 1: would expect coming into this final table.
Speaker 2: His brother was here with his kids.
Speaker 1: His brother was here with his kids. He had he
Speaker 1: had pretty sure the biggest rail. They were loud at times,
Speaker 1: not tallest, yes, for sure. Rick Talckett, former NHL player
Speaker 1: coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, called a kid.
Speaker 2: Called him a kid.
Speaker 1: It was such a hot It was the kids just
Speaker 1: out there doing it like it's such such a hockey thing.
Speaker 1: That was cool to see. I didn't see Sean Buchanan,
Speaker 1: but I didn't really walk out there.
Speaker 2: Sean mcannon was probably covered under a hoodie like he
Speaker 2: always does. I know.
Speaker 1: David Odie be bigger friend of the pod, always a listener.
Speaker 1: He was out there as well with his wife. They
Speaker 1: were in the FBT shirts. I gotta say, I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not digging the Shadow hat. I know what it is.
Speaker 1: It's obviously for Shadow Creek, but it just treads a
Speaker 1: bit too much on Jerry Yang the Shadow.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so funny.
Speaker 1: Mueller's nickname is FBT, and I think if you tune in,
Speaker 1: you'll be like, oh, this guy is the Shadow. You
Speaker 1: start calling in the Shadow. Well he's not the Shadow.
Speaker 1: The fucking Shadow is Jerry Yang. Okay, that's just how
Speaker 1: it is. I'm sorry, Greg.
Speaker 2: I thought maybe he like come out with like a
Speaker 2: hockey themed hat or something, but the shadow thing is
Speaker 2: just stuck. And he mentioned it on the podcast that
Speaker 2: I did with him, how Mad Glands and Natcho were
Speaker 2: calling him the Shadow, which obviously you can't change your
Speaker 2: nickname mid career, which is not allowed.
Speaker 1: It's like a guy in his corner Bucky. People call
Speaker 1: Matthew Wantman Bucky, and I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 2: But no, it's not Bucky. No, it's the same. Whenever
Speaker 2: someone has Bucky. I'm like, I didn't know Sean M.
Speaker 2: Cannon was here, and then he's I done. He read
Speaker 2: for some stats. Yeah, let's go. Okay. I ran some
Speaker 2: numbers using the old AI shadowed by by the Poconoos,
Speaker 2: doing hand for hand coverage. It's it's a it's a job.
Speaker 2: Someone has to do it, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Happy to think I was. I was slamming refresh. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what hand are they on? What's going on? You know
Speaker 1: you have to It's it's God's work they're they're doing
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: So okay, here we go. One and thirty one hands played.
Speaker 2: I believe that's correct. My talian perhaps ended a bit
Speaker 2: too soon because they were still playing by the time
Speaker 2: we were recording on the On the broadcast, let me
Speaker 2: just refresh real quick. Jumalan had thirty four preflub raises Geez,
Speaker 2: and second best was Jamie Shavell, who had eighteen preflub
Speaker 2: raises and Shavell was all in five times. Han Feng
Speaker 2: was all in seven times, So like goes to show
Speaker 2: that those guys were getting after it. If we look
Speaker 2: at the standings now, Shavell was not rewarded for his aggression.
Speaker 2: He's got thirteen bigs coming into the next day.
Speaker 1: But one of those all ins he lost to Rami Hamoud. Yes,
Speaker 1: and he had the tens versus the acet Queen that
Speaker 1: left him pretty short and he had to fight from
Speaker 1: there but still alive.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly, And that's whole that's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's all about survival. Greg Mueller went into that as well.
Speaker 2: I spoke to him at length. The first question, by
Speaker 2: the way, I'll tee this up. First question is is
Speaker 2: inside baseball And only if you listen to the podcast
Speaker 2: that I did with him will it all make sense.
Speaker 2: But Greg explains it a little bit. So tonight chicken
Speaker 2: in broccoli or ice cream?
Speaker 4: You know what, there's no plan. I mean, we might
Speaker 4: end up at Johnny Rockets, which would have milkshake, which
Speaker 4: is like ice cream, will not be chicken and broccoli.
Speaker 4: But not because I'm tilted or anything. I'm just hungry.
Speaker 4: So whatever I'm craving, you know. I feel like I
Speaker 4: made one air. It's arguably hard to say it was
Speaker 4: an air. I played the hand poorly from start to finish.
Speaker 4: If I three bet, I win the hand. If I
Speaker 4: lead on the flop, I win the hand. If I
Speaker 4: check raise, I win the hand. If I bet the turn,
Speaker 4: I win the hand. The only way I don't win
Speaker 4: the hand is when I check fold the river, which
Speaker 4: I had full intentions of check calling. That was a
Speaker 4: big pot. It was a big turning point. I'd be
Speaker 4: at the time, like endless chips, a little irritated about that.
Speaker 4: Other than that, I'm very happy with my play. I
Speaker 4: didn't get too many cards, and I battle in there
Speaker 4: so there would be no reason for me to go
Speaker 4: on to the ice cream. And I realize how blessed
Speaker 4: I am see this rail, I mean incredible to see
Speaker 4: incredible like these guys took time from their lives, flying
Speaker 4: in from everywhere and relentless cheer support like positivity. I mean,
Speaker 4: it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: There's so many things that I can bring up here.
Speaker 2: We could talk for an hour straight just about tonight
Speaker 2: because I saw so many, so many different things unfold
Speaker 2: in front of my eyes. But I want to start
Speaker 2: with the rail because the amount of noise, the amount
Speaker 2: of beverages that were being consumed, the amount of just
Speaker 2: overall cheer that was going on. Yeah, does that add
Speaker 2: more pressure to perform because you don't want these guys
Speaker 2: to come here and girls for a ninth place finish.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, truthfully, there's a bit of pressure. I said,
Speaker 4: you know, these I gotta, we gotta you know, I
Speaker 4: want to do it for them. So, but I mean
Speaker 4: the amount they fired me up and they could see
Speaker 4: maybe I was hunched over a little bit, you know,
Speaker 4: st pepped me up, and when I did win a hand,
Speaker 4: never stopping singing okay, you know, like in a classy,
Speaker 4: positive way, going at it with the other rail like
Speaker 4: it was. I mean, I'm a winner winner. It was
Speaker 4: just based on that.
Speaker 2: You know, his name escases me of the code to
Speaker 2: Philadelphia Flyers coach talk Rick talking. He was on the
Speaker 2: broadcast in the ESPN and he called you a kid.
Speaker 2: I thought that was the most purest hockey sort of
Speaker 2: speeches or hockey speak, if you will, y, And I
Speaker 2: just love how it felt like, you know, I could
Speaker 2: feel the camaraderie. I could feel sort of the spirit
Speaker 2: that you guys all sort of carrys as hockey players play.
Speaker 2: Playing with the alumni, do you feel like you you
Speaker 2: have all their support and how what is it like
Speaker 2: to have that sort of I guess you know hockey
Speaker 2: spirit here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it's that's what's so great about the
Speaker 4: hockey community. You know, we're we're all the boys, and
Speaker 4: it's a team game. Everybody's in it for each other,
Speaker 4: and you have fun. You juice each other, you make
Speaker 4: fun of each other, but it's all in good fun
Speaker 4: and you have each other's backs. And like I said,
Speaker 4: it's uh so fortunate just for this experience is some
Speaker 4: I'll never forget ever, regardless of how much money I
Speaker 4: make or what place I finish. I mean, this is
Speaker 4: just a moment I'll cherish forever.
Speaker 2: Important question about the hand that you are a little
Speaker 2: frustrated with. What was it in the moment that didn't
Speaker 2: allow you to make those better decisions?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't. I just kept changing my game plan
Speaker 4: throughout the hand, and you know, ultimately I got to
Speaker 4: give him credit. He barreled very big, put his not
Speaker 4: his tournament life because he had me cover. But if
Speaker 4: I call that he is extremely crippled and I'm cruising,
Speaker 4: and hey, he made a good play. He didn't have
Speaker 4: a better hand, and he won the plot. So I
Speaker 4: don't want to take anything away from him. Just a
Speaker 4: little frustrated myself because I feel like I had a
Speaker 4: beat on him and I had a plan and just
Speaker 4: kind of straight a bit from him.
Speaker 2: You know, final thing here? What sort of preparation or
Speaker 2: maybe contemplation is necessary for tomorrow?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I need a good sleep and I just got
Speaker 4: to have a good, good, good energy and positive attitude
Speaker 4: because you know, these things as you see change so fast.
Speaker 4: Hand hit a three outer and now he's crushing, right,
Speaker 4: it just goes so quick. He's not crushing it's numberin level,
Speaker 4: but he's crushing it. You know.
Speaker 2: That's right here.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean you just have to come back
Speaker 4: and not give up. Be positive. Hey, if somebody told
Speaker 4: me you're going to be the shortest stack with seven
Speaker 4: left at the main event on the final table, Like,
Speaker 4: where would I sign the dotted line? Like do you
Speaker 4: know what I mean? So I can't I can't be negative.
Speaker 4: I have to be positive, coming with a good attitude
Speaker 4: and ready to go. Hey, don't kill me.
Speaker 1: Out down, but not out is Greg Mueller. And you
Speaker 1: guys heard him talk about it there, and we want
Speaker 1: to get into this hand because it was one of
Speaker 1: the bigger, more interesting and also entertaining hands at the
Speaker 1: final table. It was the one where Greg had the
Speaker 1: King jack off from the blind against his finished counterpart
Speaker 1: to Lourie Sascolotti, who opened queen Ate suited and then
Speaker 1: just barreled off on the King six four five six board,
Speaker 1: leading to a river fold from Muller, putting the best
Speaker 1: hand in the muck and allowing Sascolotti to chip up
Speaker 1: quite nicely. But it also allowed Mueller to drop right back.
Speaker 1: This was right after he was kind of surging right,
Speaker 1: He was kind of started slipping early on just just
Speaker 1: not not like losing any really big pods. It was
Speaker 1: more like a couple of million here, a couple of
Speaker 1: million there.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 1: Then he starts running back up, back up, back up.
Speaker 1: He's got eighty million. Then he plays this big hand.
Speaker 1: And honestly, when when we were watching it, I saw
Speaker 1: the open, I see him call, I see the flop
Speaker 1: come out, and I say, okay, Mueller is about to
Speaker 1: fucking have one hundred million, Like he's about to just
Speaker 1: cause because Sascallotti's a very interesting cat, Like he's on
Speaker 1: one side of things, he he'll like opt to play conservative.
Speaker 1: On the other side of things, he'll like just have
Speaker 1: these moments. When I was like, you know what, fa yolo,
Speaker 1: let's go like I'm the Finnish guy who likes plo.
Speaker 1: Let's just bos the wall. So I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: he might just like go nuts here. And when he
Speaker 1: when Soascallotti bet the turn, I was like, oh, like
Speaker 1: he's he's going for it. And then I was like, Midler,
Speaker 1: you just got to click call, I know, and the
Speaker 1: blind check was like he baffling. Yeah, So on the
Speaker 1: so Soascallott he bets the turn, and Mueller does two
Speaker 1: things that I thought were very interesting. One he called
Speaker 1: within two seconds yep, and then he immediately checked dark.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, God, this is the ubas be made
Speaker 1: of that file table. Why are we snap calling?
Speaker 2: I listen.
Speaker 1: I know we don't want people to be tanking out there,
Speaker 1: but the snap call check dark, I mean, that's Phil
Speaker 1: help me, that's not Greg Mueller.
Speaker 2: I mean what was that. I have no idea, and
Speaker 2: I think Greg still doesn't know why he did that.
Speaker 2: I think he was, you know, actively trying to still
Speaker 2: figure it out as we were talking.
Speaker 1: But I think it was I think it was him
Speaker 1: just like rushing. He was rushing at the time, and
Speaker 1: he was like whatever, I can just do no wrong,
Speaker 1: like I'm just act act ac dak dak. And then
Speaker 1: he got to the river and he was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: this guy just bet thirty five million, Like what the
Speaker 1: heck's going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if he if he calls Sasklott is really
Speaker 2: short and he's got over one hundred million, and you know,
Speaker 2: he's basically one of the top contenders. And now we're
Speaker 2: looking at the board. Here twenty nine point five million,
Speaker 2: twelve big bines from Mueller. You know, Han Feng was
Speaker 2: down to five bigs. So you know, this doesn't say much,
Speaker 2: but you definitely sleep a lot better when you have
Speaker 2: one hundred and six million, which is what Han Feng
Speaker 2: now has going into day two. But Mueller still is
Speaker 2: in there, he's still he's still fighting, he's still battling,
Speaker 2: and he still has a chance. So that's that's obviously
Speaker 2: good to see because he clearly had a ton of support.
Speaker 2: Before we move on to the next interview. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to point ot couple of small things Mike Madisow
Speaker 2: and you know, Twitter of course is always great during
Speaker 2: the WSP Man Event final table. You know, it has
Speaker 2: been better in the past, and I feel like Twitter
Speaker 2: of course has lost lost a lot of it shine
Speaker 2: in recent years. I guess I wonder why Mike Madisaw
Speaker 2: tweeted out watching his main event final table is so
Speaker 2: brutal to watch. And that was quote tweeted by Sam Greenwood,
Speaker 2: who is always negative about people's plays, which he loves
Speaker 2: to call out in his I believe is the substack
Speaker 2: that he has. And Sam Greenwood said, punt of the day,
Speaker 2: punted the day exactly. Greenwood said, and I quote all
Speaker 2: I do is criticize the play of the people at
Speaker 2: Big FT's and the WSP. And this has been an
Speaker 2: extremely enjoyable FT thus far. Pace, the play has been fine,
Speaker 2: quality of poker has been good, and no one is
Speaker 2: playing scared. So that's the Greenwood perspective. And then terms Chan,
Speaker 2: who is just you know, tweeting. He's not responding to
Speaker 2: this at all. Teran Chan tweets LoJack opens cut off
Speaker 2: folds a seven suited small one Folds seven's Baby on
Speaker 2: Folds King King nine off. I assume they're all correct, But
Speaker 2: how do you guys watch this stuff? Obviously you know?
Speaker 2: Indicating that, I mean that goes back to what I
Speaker 2: was saying earlier. You have the two camps. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: like two things can be true. Greenwood is enjoying this
Speaker 2: from like almost like you know, an artistic perspective, like
Speaker 2: the art of poker and all the method is involved
Speaker 2: in it. And TAM's chan you know who is not
Speaker 2: watching it for that type of enjoyment. He's watching it
Speaker 2: to be entertained. Is not getting it getting that out
Speaker 2: of this final table. And I think that really speaks
Speaker 2: to the two different ways the game is being viewed.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I would would say that it's it's
Speaker 1: similar to viewing soccer. A casual person who's going to
Speaker 1: sit down and watch a ninety minute match is going
Speaker 1: to sit there and bitch and complain and say, what
Speaker 1: the hell is this? So no one's scoring, they're not
Speaker 1: even taking shots, what's going on? Whereas I mean, you
Speaker 1: and I love soccer, right and we might say, like
Speaker 1: this is awesome, look at the flow. It's it's for
Speaker 1: using a word you just use It's very artistic out there,
Speaker 1: you know, whereas somebody on the more casual side of
Speaker 1: thing that just wants the highlight reel, they're gonna do
Speaker 1: just that, watch the highlight reel. And this is why
Speaker 1: poker from an entertainment perspective not to go too far
Speaker 1: down this path. But like poker on ESPN itself, just
Speaker 1: using that as an example, because that's where this is
Speaker 1: being aired, is almost best served as an edited episode
Speaker 1: because the casuals will just tune in. You can put
Speaker 1: banger after banger after banger of hands and you can
Speaker 1: just cram it into an hour or two hours. Boom,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's your highlight reel. Right. But then you know,
Speaker 1: as you and I know, I mean, we work for
Speaker 1: Poker Girl, we're live streaming all the time. Like it's
Speaker 1: unless you are really into it, it's hard to watch
Speaker 1: live poker. It's just it's hard to do. And like
Speaker 1: Terrence Chance said, like I'm assuming all this stuff is correct,
Speaker 1: and it is likely correct, but you as a viewer
Speaker 1: at home, like you want the guy to just pile
Speaker 1: the A seven suited, like you want to just go
Speaker 1: all and go nuts, like you want Greg to click
Speaker 1: call there with the King Jack like, you want all
Speaker 1: this stuff to happen, but it's hard. I always, you know,
Speaker 1: we always commonly mentioned. One thing that I think it
Speaker 1: was Nick Petrangelo told you is that these guys are
Speaker 1: trying to figure out a math exam. Yeah, at the
Speaker 1: Final Table, that's what they're trying to do. What is
Speaker 1: the best decision that makes me the most money in
Speaker 1: the long run. And that is not necessarily exciting.
Speaker 2: It is not.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's just not. But that's why it's tricky
Speaker 1: because then you stick something live like this on TV.
Speaker 1: So a person who just wants to watch fireworks, they're
Speaker 1: not going to get all the fireworks.
Speaker 2: And that's why I was going to close out what
Speaker 2: I was trying to say by saying that the worst
Speaker 2: kind of review you can get for your product in
Speaker 2: this specific scenario is when Sam Greenwood loves it. That
Speaker 2: is the worst review you can get because the punt
Speaker 2: of the day, which is something that he writes, that
Speaker 2: is what you want. You want the first hand of
Speaker 2: the Final Table to be the punt of the day.
Speaker 2: And then people who are casually watching at home, sitting
Speaker 2: on their couch in Kentucky or somewhere in Iowa are
Speaker 2: watching this and like, oh my god, ah Jack versus
Speaker 2: King ten offsuit, this is super entertaining. And to your point,
Speaker 2: I think that from a mainstream, mainstream perspective, having poker
Speaker 2: on ESPN is phenomenal. Like it it's exciting for me
Speaker 2: to see, you know, chips and cards on the table,
Speaker 2: seeing Jeff Platt, hearing the voices of Nick and Ali
Speaker 2: by the way, who are phenomenal tonight again as always
Speaker 2: Jason Kuhn too. Will get to him in a minute.
Speaker 2: But I do think that the game of poker itself
Speaker 2: is best served in a compacted format. Same let's it's
Speaker 2: who you're serving it too. But like I'm saying, for
Speaker 2: that audience.
Speaker 1: Like on ESPN, I think edited stuff is probably the best, right.
Speaker 1: And then if the diehards like you and I and
Speaker 1: Sam Green I said, I want to seek out more
Speaker 1: than that, then you go to a full livestream product, right,
Speaker 1: And that's where it gets tricky because then it you know,
Speaker 1: then obviously I mean again not to get too far
Speaker 1: down this path, which we already are way too far
Speaker 1: down this path. But then it's like it's like resources
Speaker 1: and editing time and where do you put it where
Speaker 1: and at what time do you put it out there?
Speaker 1: And if you do something live but then wait for
Speaker 1: edited episodes, are you spoiling the result? And like it's
Speaker 1: that whole thing, right, So I don't really know what
Speaker 1: the best answer is necessarily, right, I like, I guess
Speaker 1: in a perfect world, you would have two broadcasts running
Speaker 1: at the same time. One is live and one is
Speaker 1: somehow a live but edited episode. Like I don't even
Speaker 1: know if that's possible, but maybe that's just where my
Speaker 1: mind goes. But it is tricky.
Speaker 2: It is. It is definitely fun to go on Twitter
Speaker 2: and to search for WSP and see what people are
Speaker 2: saying who are not living the poker life every single day.
Speaker 2: And I think that because Twitter has not been as
Speaker 2: popular of a platform as it was in the past,
Speaker 2: we're not getting a lot of those opinions. I have
Speaker 2: a feeling, and maybe I'm wrong, but I have a
Speaker 2: feeling that probably five, six, seven years ago, Twitter was
Speaker 2: a place where the everyman will sort of just say
Speaker 2: random things like, oh, I'm having a same which, oh
Speaker 2: I'm watching poker on TV. And I feel like that
Speaker 2: sort of part of Twitter has sort of died out
Speaker 2: as we are no longer in this sort of oversharing
Speaker 2: state of the world, and it's more, I guess, boiled
Speaker 2: down to people following. People are following, the influencers are
Speaker 2: following the people that they want to follow because they
Speaker 2: live interesting lives. They're no longer broadcasting themselves as much,
Speaker 2: so we're not able to see that in the same way.
Speaker 2: But still I saw a few tweets from casual fans,
Speaker 2: which always warms my heart because you know, this will
Speaker 2: reach some people who will you know, perhaps for sure,
Speaker 2: perhaps bring an old home game back to life, or
Speaker 2: maybe you know, find a way to play online poker,
Speaker 2: and that's obviously all ultimately the goal with this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's you know, I agree with you
Speaker 1: in terms of like just just seeing people post about
Speaker 1: it on social media, whether it is positive or negative,
Speaker 1: I still think is a good thing because it's being
Speaker 1: talked about. Whereas those people if this wasn't on ESPN
Speaker 1: or you know, if it wasn't anywhere else are available
Speaker 1: out there, then people aren't seeing it and they're not
Speaker 1: talking about it, So you know, at least it is
Speaker 1: being talked about it, and I think that's good overall.
Speaker 1: I think it was the very positive show. I was
Speaker 1: a big fan of it, and I would say that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the listeners out there for this podcast were definitely into it, right,
Speaker 1: I fully understand like where someone like a Terrence Chan
Speaker 1: is coming from, or Mike Madisow is coming from, and
Speaker 1: just Mike Madison, Like the problem that I have with
Speaker 1: opinions like that are he's just like yelling to yell,
Speaker 1: like he's not offering any sort of suggestions or ideas
Speaker 1: to improve it. He's just like this is horrible. Like
Speaker 1: can you just like be like, hey, this should be
Speaker 1: better because X y Z, like that would be a
Speaker 1: better way to do it. You know, I don't know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: We're all over the place.
Speaker 2: I think we do. We still have Gagliano.
Speaker 1: Cute, we do still have Gagliano ready to go. He's
Speaker 1: one of the final seven players remaining. Gagliano came in
Speaker 1: with forty four million or so something like that, finished
Speaker 1: with forty two million. Like he just coming in. He
Speaker 1: punched the clock for the nine to five. He went
Speaker 1: to work. He was he was kind of up a
Speaker 1: little bit early and you were like, oh, here comes
Speaker 1: Gags was second for second and and then he kind
Speaker 1: of which second in chips. That was a spot where
Speaker 1: so Lucas Jumalan never lost the top spot, even though
Speaker 1: he did slide a little bit at some point from
Speaker 1: his peak, he never lost the top spot. Second place, though,
Speaker 1: was a revolving door you had. I think did Greg
Speaker 1: Muller get up to the second place at one point?
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I think he was started there. Maybe
Speaker 1: Greg Mueller, Lori Sascelotti for sure. Michael Gagliano, Yes, it
Speaker 1: ends up with Han Feng up there as well. So
Speaker 1: like all these players had a chance at second place,
Speaker 1: and it was like, oh and all all that was
Speaker 1: happening while the Jumalan slide was happening, So it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: is somebody going to really get the heat and catch
Speaker 1: up to Jumalan. One of those players was Gagliano. Played
Speaker 1: I think as expected in that it was just very
Speaker 1: very technically sound, you know, not probably the most above
Speaker 1: the rim high level poker stuff, but in terms of
Speaker 1: like just playing your best game from start to finish
Speaker 1: across all the hands that were played. He was just
Speaker 1: consistent across the board, and that's what you get from
Speaker 1: Michael Gagilian. He's been in the game forever, He's played
Speaker 1: a bazillion hands, he's a coach, he plays online, he
Speaker 1: plays live, all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there was the one big hand where he three
Speaker 1: bet with the ace king against Jumalan's open. When Jumalan
Speaker 1: had the ace Queen, Jumalan calls it comes Queen Queen
Speaker 1: X So Jumalan flops, trips, and Gagliano just loses the
Speaker 1: sea bet ultimately folds to the check raise from Jumalan,
Speaker 1: And yeah, he lost that pop. But it's like he
Speaker 1: doesn't get married to hands, he doesn't get caught in
Speaker 1: big situations. So yeah, maybe he didn't finish on the
Speaker 1: high that he once was, but a very good overall
Speaker 1: for Gagliano. And you know, I don't think he's somebody
Speaker 1: who I think he's both unassuming but also wouldn't be
Speaker 1: a surprise if he ultimately goes on to win. And
Speaker 1: here is Remco talking to Gagliano after play Day one ended.
Speaker 2: What a roller coaster it has been watching on the sidelines.
Speaker 2: How would you describe today?
Speaker 8: First off, that was day nine. I am very happy
Speaker 8: to have a Day ten coming up because you don't
Speaker 8: get many.
Speaker 4: Double digit days in poker.
Speaker 8: You know, I'm a little tired. It was a longer
Speaker 8: day than kind of anticipated. But it wasn't like this
Speaker 8: was in the books. This could have happened, you know,
Speaker 8: shipstacks were lined up in a way where if the
Speaker 8: all in stack won a bunch of all in you
Speaker 8: could have played for a while. So that happened, and
Speaker 8: we played for a while. I kind of had a
Speaker 8: pretty good start, kind of ran it up a little bit,
Speaker 8: and then kind of just had a few knock on
Speaker 8: our way. I think I just kind of got made
Speaker 8: the second best hand a few times and got away
Speaker 8: from it what I did, which was fortunate, And I'll
Speaker 8: just see what happened tomorrow, you know, kind of same thing.
Speaker 8: I'm little on the short side, but just in that
Speaker 8: zone where I'm gonna just kind of have my game and.
Speaker 7: See what happens.
Speaker 2: How different if it was different? Does this feel to
Speaker 2: your your other final tables that you played in your career?
Speaker 8: I mean every final table is different feel to it,
Speaker 8: you know, just the group of guys and uh.
Speaker 2: Just the atmosphere.
Speaker 8: Obviously, the atmosphere is ridiculous.
Speaker 4: Here a lot of.
Speaker 8: Loud, energetic rails, which has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 7: I wear Earbucks for most of the day because I
Speaker 7: don't like a.
Speaker 8: Lot of loud noises and just a little easier.
Speaker 4: To lock in.
Speaker 8: Kind of a shame that it's about, because I really
Speaker 8: like talking with this corooper guys. We had a lot
Speaker 8: of fun you know, leading up to the funnel table
Speaker 8: and stuff.
Speaker 7: So we'll see what that holds for the you know,
Speaker 7: the next day.
Speaker 4: And uh, a lot of fun though. The roads were great,
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of back and forth. The O
Speaker 4: Canada was amazing, you know.
Speaker 7: So, uh, you have to say, final.
Speaker 2: Question, how has the support been for you? Obviously there
Speaker 2: is a few moments every now and then to talk
Speaker 2: to the rail even just from a mental perspective, to
Speaker 2: like sort of break the ice literally almost to have
Speaker 2: sort of someone to get some feedback from.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's been amazing. I have family here, friends here,
Speaker 8: a bunch of hooker players I don't get to see
Speaker 8: too much, which is nice. The support online has been unbelievable.
Speaker 8: The amount of messages I got in the last few days,
Speaker 8: just pushing me a walk and tell me how you know,
Speaker 8: everyone's proud of me.
Speaker 1: Regardless.
Speaker 7: A result has been just just unbelievable.
Speaker 8: I haven't had my phone all day, so I'm I'm
Speaker 8: sure I have some messages and Twitter, you know, acts
Speaker 8: and stuff, so I'll check it out later. But it's unbelievable.
Speaker 8: It's been a lot of fun. They got some great
Speaker 8: hats and shirts and I can't wait to, you know,
Speaker 8: bring those home.
Speaker 4: It'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: That was Michael gaglian I felt like he was almost
Speaker 1: in a rush to get out. I mean in a
Speaker 1: way like he was done.
Speaker 2: He was being open about the fact that he was tired.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: He said he thought it was went longer than he expected.
Speaker 2: And and this this is something I've said before. The
Speaker 2: players who are the most well studied also get the
Speaker 2: most fatigued because there's constant thoughts running through their mind
Speaker 2: on every single decision. And for players who are more recreational,
Speaker 2: they just play the hand that's dealt and then deal
Speaker 2: with the circumstances and they aren't necessarily being I guess
Speaker 2: zapped from an energy perspective because of how much is
Speaker 2: at stake or how big this decisions are. And I
Speaker 2: think Gagliano, of all the players, is probably feeling that
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree, you know, he's I think he's
Speaker 1: one hundred percent locked in at all times. And then
Speaker 1: to your point that that ends up being pretty mentally taxing,
Speaker 1: and also to his point about it going longer than expected,
Speaker 1: I do think everyone expected this thing to be done
Speaker 1: in for day one, it'd be done in two and
Speaker 1: a half to three and a half hours in that window,
Speaker 1: it ended up going what five or six hours, so
Speaker 1: it went went very long. And then it's not only
Speaker 1: that the full length of the time is long, but
Speaker 1: everything is just drawn out. Like you play like three hands,
Speaker 1: there's a commercial break, you come back, you play three
Speaker 1: more hands, and every hand takes you know, five ten minutes.
Speaker 2: It's just long.
Speaker 1: It's drawn out. Then you come back from the break,
Speaker 1: but you're still kind of standing around because they're waiting
Speaker 1: for the commercial wrap up. Then it's boom, you're back
Speaker 1: in your seat. So like there's just a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff going on. So it's just everything is just drawn
Speaker 1: out and you're almost sitting there like, oh man, is
Speaker 1: this day gonna end? You know, is this day gonna end?
Speaker 1: Plus I think that part of maybe feeling drained is
Speaker 1: if the play itself had a bit more really really
Speaker 1: big climactic moments, really really big all ins. We had
Speaker 1: a few of them, but not a ton of them.
Speaker 1: Let's say you a dozen instead of like the four
Speaker 1: or five that we had. Then everyone's adrenaline's pumping a
Speaker 1: little bit more. It's easier to get through the day
Speaker 1: versus if you're just sitting there and like everyone's kind
Speaker 1: of folding a lot, then you're kind of just like
Speaker 1: this is boring, and when you're bored, you can kind
Speaker 1: of doze off, But then you're fighting with your your
Speaker 1: brain to like stay focused, so that I feel like
Speaker 1: that plays into it too. So yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: a big it's a big mind fuck out there, honestly,
Speaker 1: and sometimes not just in this poker tournament, but this
Speaker 1: is the one that where things are generally emphasized the most.
Speaker 1: But the player who wins might be the one who
Speaker 1: is maybe able to just maintain focus for the longest time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also the and not blow up, the player
Speaker 2: who can let all the side show, all the noise,
Speaker 2: all the all the past decisions sort of slide slide
Speaker 2: or glide off of their shoulders the most easily, Like
Speaker 2: you cannot allow yourself, you know, in like a Mueller's case,
Speaker 2: to get stuck in thinking back of the hand where
Speaker 2: things didn't go your way. And obviously, like Greg's a professional,
Speaker 2: he's been doing this for a very long time, but
Speaker 2: it's very possible that he goes to sleep tonight still
Speaker 2: thinking about that hand because of what could have been.
Speaker 2: So the player who's able to, you know, shut off
Speaker 2: the brain in the moments that it can can be
Speaker 2: shut off, those are the players who will have the
Speaker 2: most success long term.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great point by you.
Speaker 1: And it's such a big thing is if you're able
Speaker 1: to just once a hand is played and done, whether
Speaker 1: you win it or you lose it, it's done. It's
Speaker 1: in the past. And I know Pad's was on the rail,
Speaker 1: you know, in the Lucas Jumlan corner, Patrick Leonard, and
Speaker 1: he's always talked about this. The only thing that matters
Speaker 1: is the next hand, how many big blinds you have,
Speaker 1: your position at the table, and trying to play that
Speaker 1: hand the best, like that's all you can focus on.
Speaker 1: And and I just don't know if Greg Mueller is
Speaker 1: that type of player or if he's gonna let this
Speaker 1: one stew on him right. I'm sure his camp namely
Speaker 1: Sean Buchanan. It is just like, be like, forget about it.
Speaker 1: Forget about it, man, forget about it. And he might
Speaker 1: be saying like, man, if I just if I just
Speaker 1: called there, if I just three bat pre if I
Speaker 1: just check raise the flop, you know, if I if
Speaker 1: I do anything different in that hand, I probably win
Speaker 1: that hand, right yeap. And it's it's hard to forget
Speaker 1: about that stuff in the moment, but you have to
Speaker 1: forget about it. And I will say that, while I
Speaker 1: don't know how Greg will, I will say that he's
Speaker 1: been in the game a long time and going back
Speaker 1: to a lot of stuff that he said on the
Speaker 1: podcast with You to Face the Ace podcast, it's like
Speaker 1: he understands that, like there's gonna be highs, there's gonna
Speaker 1: be lows, and you do have to just forget about
Speaker 1: it and move on. So and we're gonna see, you know,
Speaker 1: come come tomorrow, come Tuesday, when everyone is listening to this,
Speaker 1: how how he reacts from that all, and we'll see
Speaker 1: if he can spin it up. He's got what's gonna
Speaker 1: be just under ten big blinds, because the blinds are
Speaker 1: going to go up to one point five to three million,
Speaker 1: so he'll have just Shy have ten big blinds to
Speaker 1: start the day. Jamie Shavel will have eleven big Linds
Speaker 1: right ahead of him. So it's there are two fewer
Speaker 1: players than there were when they're started on the final table,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of a very similar situation. You have
Speaker 1: a very big chip leader, you have a guy who's
Speaker 1: comfortably in second, and then you have two guys who
Speaker 1: are very short and kind of probably gonna try and
Speaker 1: wait each other out, and then you have these middling stacks.
Speaker 1: So even though two fewer players, it does set up
Speaker 1: very similar to how it's set up coming into Monday,
Speaker 1: which is interesting.
Speaker 2: So we'll see how it goes. Donnie, I got to
Speaker 2: ask you for prediction. Is they two also going to
Speaker 2: be a slow day?
Speaker 1: I think it starts slow, but I think in this
Speaker 1: case where what we didn't see today is we saw
Speaker 1: the bust out from Eva Gorus Evil Goru, and that
Speaker 1: didn't really open the floodgates, right, It just kept pretty
Speaker 1: much par for the course, pretty much a grind throughout.
Speaker 1: I think if let's say Muler for example, finds a
Speaker 1: hand earlier, he goes that he gets picked off, he's out.
Speaker 1: I think we open the floodgates, right. I think part
Speaker 1: of that is because people will have locked up what
Speaker 1: is it, one point seventy five million at that point,
Speaker 1: So it's it's a bit more definitely coming into today.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be the first player to go home.
Speaker 1: Who does doesn't get any extra money, right, that's a
Speaker 1: big thing. Right, But now it's like, okay, I made
Speaker 1: an extra seven hundred and fifty k, Like, let's go.
Speaker 1: We started gotta start getting after it. We got to
Speaker 1: start trying to put ourselves in position to win. Another
Speaker 1: factor in this is and he said it in the interview,
Speaker 1: Han Feng said he was never coming in just the
Speaker 1: ladder up, but he was handcuffed by his chip stack.
Speaker 1: Right now, he's gonna knock it. He's in second place,
Speaker 1: like he might just be like, you know what, fit,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and go for the damn thing. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try and finish day two of the final table
Speaker 1: to really put myself in position to win ten million
Speaker 1: dollars on the third and final day, which means at
Speaker 1: times that could mean challenging Lucas Jumlan and another player,
Speaker 1: Laurie Sasclatti. That guy didn't give a shit in a
Speaker 1: lot of spots.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was great to see.
Speaker 1: He was like, listen, I'm the Finn here and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna play like well he even.
Speaker 2: Said like he prefers po Yeah, of course at first
Speaker 2: he's from Finland. That's why this is probably boring to him.
Speaker 1: So those three being the top three stacks, I feel
Speaker 1: like it could be a lot of fun on this
Speaker 1: second day of play.
Speaker 2: We'll see how it goes. Looking forward to it, what
Speaker 2: do you what do you you.
Speaker 1: Got a prediction here or how things will play out?
Speaker 2: I mean looking at the board right now. The Jumalan
Speaker 2: Fang Sasclott three handed battle, if that's what we end
Speaker 2: up with, would be phenomenal, Like those three guys all
Speaker 2: have what it takes to make that a very entertaining battle.
Speaker 2: And then at the same time, I like the mechanical
Speaker 2: tactical play of Gagliano. I love Rami Hamoud with his
Speaker 2: Canadian rail and.
Speaker 1: The and the he had the fossil Man sunglasses Greg
Speaker 1: Ramer because he knocked out Greg Grahmer. Greg Grahmer gave
Speaker 1: him the fossil gave him the glasses, the snake eyes glasses.
Speaker 1: He had both of.
Speaker 2: Them on the table. Was so crazy, Yeah, brilliant. And
Speaker 2: then they also made reference to it in the broadcast,
Speaker 2: which is awesome. And then a Shavel you know, had
Speaker 2: the big ups and downs, he was all in multiple times,
Speaker 2: won a big one, lost the big one, and then
Speaker 2: there's Mueller at the bottom of the counts. Really, you know,
Speaker 2: this is one of those things that has happened so
Speaker 2: many times where you come into a final table and
Speaker 2: you're you're thinking to yourself, like, you know, I don't
Speaker 2: I don't know these people. I have no connection with
Speaker 2: these people. And then as you watch the episodes you know,
Speaker 2: which we're now airing on ESPN, as you learn some
Speaker 2: more about them, and then as you watch them play
Speaker 2: for a whole day today and then obviously again tomorrow,
Speaker 2: you're you're you're slowly but surely finding reasons why you
Speaker 2: can buy into the story of each and every one
Speaker 2: of these players. There's something that that all of them
Speaker 2: have going for them, and you know, some of the
Speaker 2: stories might be a little harder to do uncover, or
Speaker 2: perhaps you know the story doesn't run as deep, but
Speaker 2: I can I can sort of find a way for
Speaker 2: myself to root for all of these players, which is
Speaker 2: really cool to see. Lots of positive energy, no negativity,
Speaker 2: you know, no conflict. It's just been really really good
Speaker 2: to see. And then Donnie, I think all that's left
Speaker 2: for us is to do a hard pivot into the
Speaker 2: Manda myth, the legend, Jason Kuhn.
Speaker 1: The legend he is. So as part of the festivities
Speaker 1: for this first day of the WSP Main Event Final Table,
Speaker 1: they did announce the Hall of Fame inductees or inductee
Speaker 1: I should say, because it was just a single player
Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty six class, and that was, of
Speaker 1: course Jason Kuhn, the Legend, the icon. I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: we throw around the world Goat all the time. He
Speaker 1: very much might be the actual goat, like he is
Speaker 1: that good of a player. He's won two bracelets on
Speaker 1: his resume, countless Triton titles, bunch of PGT tos. He
Speaker 1: won the PGT Championship a bunch of years ago when
Speaker 1: it was winner take all for that five hundred K prize.
Speaker 1: Of course, his casket cash game resume speaks for itself.
Speaker 1: He plays insanely high stakes throughout his career up to
Speaker 1: numbers that are like, you know, here's a small house,
Speaker 1: here's a big house in the small blind, the big blind.
Speaker 1: That's where bettan in this one. He's done it online,
Speaker 1: he's done it live, you know, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I really I can't think of, Like, if you were
Speaker 1: to make a yeah butt for Jason Kuhn, I don't
Speaker 1: really know what it would be. Maybe it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't play mixed games, but it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't really care because everything that he does in
Speaker 1: the big bet space so far outweighs anything anyone else
Speaker 1: has done in a lot of spaces that it just
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. He really is a true one of one
Speaker 1: in the industry. Also honestly one of the fucking nicest
Speaker 1: guys in the universe. Yes, just for as big as
Speaker 1: he is as a poker player, as successful as he is,
Speaker 1: likely as rich as he is all this sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: he is just a down to earth dude who will
Speaker 1: just come in and just shoot the shit with you,
Speaker 1: ask you how you're doing, talk about your kids with you,
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. Just a great person and
Speaker 1: it's an honor to see him go into the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. He was the only player inducted, which I'm
Speaker 1: sure there will be plenty to talk about with that.
Speaker 1: I saw some stuff on social media.
Speaker 2: Well, they fix the voting to get more people in.
Speaker 1: They fix the voting where it could allow for more
Speaker 1: people to go in, and then you have just one
Speaker 1: player go in. So now it's gonna be a whole thing.
Speaker 1: And this is the year when it's like, Okay, the
Speaker 1: backlog is here, is deep to get in? Is sever
Speaker 1: going to get in? Is east I Sheinberg going to
Speaker 1: get in? Like what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: But by the way, I want to just point this out,
Speaker 2: Diane and I have been been super I guess I
Speaker 2: don't want to say against the Hall of Fame. We've
Speaker 2: been super unhappy with the way the Hall of Fame
Speaker 2: has been operating in the past. And I was really
Speaker 2: excited for this change. And of course you cannot you
Speaker 2: could not steer the voting public, which are the Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame members, into a way for them to like
Speaker 2: hash out how can we get multiple people inducted? That's
Speaker 2: just not how this works. But I was excited to
Speaker 2: have multiple people inducted.
Speaker 1: Now I thought we were going to get two. I
Speaker 1: thought it was just gonna be there would have been two.
Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be Coon and Deep.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought it was probably gonna be Coon and sever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was my third and then maybe Deep next year.
Speaker 1: But you know either way.
Speaker 2: But the one thing I wanted to emphasize here is
Speaker 2: that this sort of quote unquote problem of having this
Speaker 2: backlog is only going to get worse every single year.
Speaker 2: Mike Madisow is never getting into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: If you don't get in on your first ballot, it
Speaker 2: is almost a guarantee that you're not going to get
Speaker 2: in because more and more guys are going to turn
Speaker 2: forty that have these insane resumes. Chidwick is not forty yet.
Speaker 2: Brin Kenny is not forty yet. Jason Kuhn inducted into
Speaker 2: the Poker Hall of Fame as the third player on
Speaker 2: the all time money list right now. So anyone who
Speaker 2: is younger than Kuhn and who is in the top
Speaker 2: fifty whenever they become eligible, unless you know they're like
Speaker 2: a one off, are going to probably have a good
Speaker 2: case to get into the Poker Hall of Fame because
Speaker 2: guess what if you can be this high up in
Speaker 2: the ALTI Money List rankings right now, in the current
Speaker 2: state of the game, then the case for you to
Speaker 2: be the Hall of Fame is going to be incredible.
Speaker 2: So let me just go through some of these names.
Speaker 2: And this is sort of hard to hear, perhaps if
Speaker 2: you are nominated right now, or if you have been
Speaker 2: in the past and you haven't gotten in yet, and
Speaker 2: this is these are names that you know may or
Speaker 2: may not get in the future. But I think you
Speaker 2: can make the case for all of these guys. Adrian Matat,
Speaker 2: Isaac Haxton, Dan Smith, Alex Foxen, David Peters, Faeder Holtz,
Speaker 2: Steve O'Dwyer, Christoph Vogel saying, I mean this is where
Speaker 2: I'm still in the top twenty of the AULL Time
Speaker 2: Money List, Nick Petreangelo, Sean Winter Like, all these guys
Speaker 2: have stood in the test of time. All these guys
Speaker 2: have over forty million in career earnings. All these guys
Speaker 2: have plenty of arguments for them to be in the
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame. And none of these guys are forty yet.
Speaker 2: So it is insane to think that in the next
Speaker 2: five years all of them are turning forty and none
Speaker 2: of them have a spot locked up because of how
Speaker 2: crazy the backlog is, because you know, there's a good
Speaker 2: chance that sever is the only one to get in
Speaker 2: next year, for example, because he was closest to getting
Speaker 2: enough votes this year, and now Kuhn gets added. And
Speaker 2: I mean Kuhn even in his conversation with me, talked
Speaker 2: about how much he respected Sever. So it's very possible
Speaker 2: that next year Sever's turned. With every passing year the
Speaker 2: only one player it's in the backlog gets worse and
Speaker 2: there are going to be a lot of players who
Speaker 2: are going to miss out on being part of the
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame, even though they're very deserving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree. You know, I think
Speaker 1: you put it very well there. I would guess that
Speaker 1: just seeing some of this initial pushback here from some
Speaker 1: of the people out there who wanted more than one
Speaker 1: people and made the arguments for other people. In addition
Speaker 1: to kuon getting in, I think there's no pushback on
Speaker 1: Jason getting in everyone. I think like he was number
Speaker 1: one on their list, right, but it was like, these
Speaker 1: other players are deserving, so they should also be in
Speaker 1: there as well. And I'm gonna maybe just go out
Speaker 1: on a lim and say next year, we definitely get
Speaker 1: two or three, just because there might be some pressure
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, well, remember last year, maybe we
Speaker 1: didn't get that exactly right, so let's make up for
Speaker 1: it this year.
Speaker 2: And then one thing before he played the interview, the
Speaker 2: fact that Kuon got in by himself and the fact
Speaker 2: that he's first ballot, I think made it that much
Speaker 2: more special because Kuon is up there doing the interview
Speaker 2: with Jeff Platt on the est PM broadcast, and then
Speaker 2: he gets brought over to the poker room where his
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame picture was unveiled. I was there with
Speaker 2: the other poker media and we all we all spoke
Speaker 2: to him. He was there with his with his wife Bianca,
Speaker 2: his two incredible kids. Bianca has a third on the way.
Speaker 2: Andrew Robo was there with his wife, and it was
Speaker 2: very It was very intimate because it was just him
Speaker 2: getting inducted. If you're standing there with Sean Deeven Scott,
Speaker 2: sever the atmosphere is completely different. You know, it's not
Speaker 2: just your thing, you're part of your event. It is
Speaker 2: for all these guys. So I think that you know
Speaker 2: and and perhaps deservingly so as well. Given Kuhne's stature
Speaker 2: in the game, having that moment with him and having
Speaker 2: a chance to talk to him was just really cool,
Speaker 2: and he had a lot of incredible things to say,
Speaker 2: as as Jason qun always does. Jason is from from
Speaker 2: West and West Virginia.
Speaker 1: To stand here.
Speaker 2: At the Horseshoe, you get the Hall of Fame photos
Speaker 2: behind you, you got suppour of your closest friends.
Speaker 1: And your family described this.
Speaker 5: Moment, yeah, man, I mean, honestly, I haven't talked about
Speaker 5: it today because we've kind of been in hyper speed
Speaker 5: with everybody. But to think about it, you know, I
Speaker 5: was the first person in my family to go to college.
Speaker 5: I suffered a hip injury that I thought was the
Speaker 5: worst thing that had ever happened to me, and I
Speaker 5: set in my bed with stitches in my leg and
Speaker 5: started playing online poker. And to think that that happened,
Speaker 5: and for me to find my love at such a
Speaker 5: young age because that injury happened, it's a wild story. Man,
Speaker 5: twenty years later here, I am. I really can't. I
Speaker 5: can't believe it.
Speaker 2: The steps you took in poker were not linear growth, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's ups and downs, there's setbacks, there's big moments forward,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: What comes to mind when you hear the words that
Speaker 1: you are inducted.
Speaker 2: What are some of those big moments, both forward and backwards.
Speaker 7: You know you would think back of rather than thinking
Speaker 7: in moments.
Speaker 5: I tend to think of my mentors and the people
Speaker 5: that were with me along the way.
Speaker 7: And I've had such a great group of friends that
Speaker 7: are now my family.
Speaker 5: As you know, you know, you and ourn pals, But like,
Speaker 5: if you really you look at my group of poker friends,
Speaker 5: it's like an Avengers cast for a movie.
Speaker 7: It's insane and every.
Speaker 5: Chapter, you know, there's been there's been, like you said,
Speaker 5: ups and downs at the biggest stakes in the world.
Speaker 5: But I've just had these guys and you you just
Speaker 5: know you're solid. We can all relate with each other.
Speaker 5: You're you're pushing each other every day to be better.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like straight up, last week, I don't plan on
Speaker 5: playing for the next six months. Last week me and
Speaker 5: six of the best poker players in the world studied
Speaker 5: every day.
Speaker 7: I'm not planning again for six months. It's just like that.
Speaker 5: We're like a family. We push each other. It's the
Speaker 5: only way to be and Uh. Yeah, I'm just so
Speaker 5: blessed to have my team.
Speaker 2: I like to refer back to a moment we had
Speaker 2: backstage during WSP where you mentioned that some of these
Speaker 2: guys are just different. Yeah, you mentioned IQ, you mentioned Shitwick. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you said their brains operate on a level that's just different.
Speaker 2: It seems to me like you often forget that you
Speaker 2: are also among that crowd and you're now on this wall.
Speaker 1: So what is it that separates you from the rest of.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, that's a question I asked myself all
Speaker 5: the time, because I truly you know, oftentimes I'm sitting
Speaker 5: here like how did this happen? And I've done two
Speaker 5: things extraordinarily well in my career. The first thing is
Speaker 5: I'm ridiculously persistent, like I just never stopped, you know me,
Speaker 5: I'm so energetic, I never stop. And secondly, I've been
Speaker 5: great at finding people to push me to be better.
Speaker 5: And that those things kind of intersect, because you have
Speaker 5: to be persistent at driving people crazy enough to work
Speaker 5: with you. Like Ike's a great example. I said, hey,
Speaker 5: coach me. He said no. I said, hey, I'll pay
Speaker 5: you this an hour.
Speaker 7: He said no.
Speaker 5: I said, okay, I just sent you twenty thousand dollars
Speaker 5: to your account. You have to coach me, And he said,
Speaker 5: damn it, okay, And that's how our relationship started. Like
Speaker 5: things like that, I just would not take no for
Speaker 5: an answer, not just with relationships but with myself.
Speaker 7: You know, I would hit barriers where.
Speaker 5: I just couldn't win, and I just my life has
Speaker 5: been very binary. It's it's I have something I need
Speaker 5: to accomplish or I die. That's how I look at things.
Speaker 5: So I'm gonna do the thing. And my life's just
Speaker 5: been that way since I was seven years old.
Speaker 2: In poker, it's often dangerous to critject or forecast how
Speaker 2: things are gonna go. Yeah, but was there a moment
Speaker 2: in time where you might have thought, for the first time,
Speaker 2: I'm on track to be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2: I now belong or I will belong at some point.
Speaker 1: On this wall.
Speaker 7: Well, I knew.
Speaker 5: I knew maybe nine years ago that special things were
Speaker 5: starting to happen when I was holding the lobbies on
Speaker 5: specific apps against the best players in the world, and
Speaker 5: I was the guy that was no one would play
Speaker 5: me heads up anymore, and I was the guy that
Speaker 5: was winning the most that ring and then I had
Speaker 5: the tournament runs that I had. I started to think, Wow,
Speaker 5: like this career is it's been a good one, you know.
Speaker 5: And I was thinking that maybe eight or nine years ago,
Speaker 5: and some good stuff's happened between those nine years too,
Speaker 5: and it doesn't make sense to me. I still can't
Speaker 5: believe it happened. Like I said, it was almost it's
Speaker 5: almost all been like a weird dream. But all I
Speaker 5: can say is, every single day I do something.
Speaker 2: One of the things about the Hall of Fame that
Speaker 2: makes it so special, and I know they've changed the
Speaker 2: rules a little bit this year, is that you need
Speaker 2: your peers to recognize your accomplishments and your longevity in
Speaker 2: the game and your success. When the nominees were announced,
Speaker 2: there were people running campaigns and whatnot. There's phone calls
Speaker 2: going at what has the reception been from the members
Speaker 2: that were already in about your nomination?
Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, that's been the most overwhelming thing about this
Speaker 5: entire experience. There's been guys like Eric's Sidel, John Jowanda,
Speaker 5: Phil Ivy. I was taking a leak in the bathroom
Speaker 5: and Phil Helmuth walks up to me and he goes,
Speaker 5: you got my.
Speaker 7: Vote, kid literally teared up.
Speaker 5: I was like washing my hands, like, wow, Phil Hellmuth's
Speaker 5: just voted for me to get into the Poker Hall
Speaker 5: of Fame. Like these are overwhelming, These are idols of mine,
Speaker 5: you know, Like I came in and these guys were it.
Speaker 5: You know, even guys like Jack Binyon voted for me.
Speaker 5: Bobby Baldwin like goat, you know, like incredible sending me text,
Speaker 5: hey kid, you had my vote.
Speaker 7: I just Maury like it's it's unbelievable.
Speaker 5: So it just means so much to me that these
Speaker 5: guys actually, uh, you know, they think I'm legit, and
Speaker 5: that's you know, you call that vain call of what
Speaker 5: you want. But when your heroes kind of give you
Speaker 5: a tap and say, hey, yeah, I've voted for you,
Speaker 5: it's a big moment.
Speaker 2: A few more small ones, but I know you're not
Speaker 2: one to rest or, one to sit back.
Speaker 7: Now, Jos's crazy.
Speaker 2: So when you say you know you're not playing for
Speaker 2: six months, I know number three is on the way, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I also know you're not part of this elite club.
Speaker 7: If you will, Yeah, what does this mean.
Speaker 2: For your ongoing longevity in the game? And you're perhaps
Speaker 2: your goals and ambitions because you know what's left in
Speaker 2: a way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I already told these guys I'm basically technical
Speaker 5: support for the next six months. I said, I'll study
Speaker 5: with you every day. I'll help you prep for final tables.
Speaker 5: That'll keep me sharp. I'll help you guys work on PLO.
Speaker 5: If there's cash games, we can game plan together. That's
Speaker 5: kind of the idea to keep me keep the blade sharp.
Speaker 5: For me, I'm going to have a baby strapped to
Speaker 5: my chest, which I'm looking forward to so much. Third
Speaker 5: time round, you realize how fast those moments go. And
Speaker 5: even you know, since the WSB ended for me, say
Speaker 5: four weeks ago or something, I've been sprinting five days
Speaker 5: a week, powerlifting Like like you.
Speaker 7: Said, I can't rest.
Speaker 5: So I'm just gonna lose myself in things I'm passionate
Speaker 5: about my family, my health, and helping my buddies win poker,
Speaker 5: and hopefully if they go over there and take down
Speaker 5: some titles, it'll it'll feel like I did it.
Speaker 2: The final question, your kids are young, you know, third
Speaker 2: ones on the way.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but there's something about the fact that you've accomplished
Speaker 9: this while their awareness of the world around them is
Speaker 9: only slowly starting to creep in. Yeah, what is that
Speaker 9: conversation going to be like with them ultimately when they
Speaker 9: are old enough to understand.
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 5: You know. It's one of those things I've thought a
Speaker 5: lot about, and I just want them to understand. One
Speaker 5: thing that I really appreciate the poker brings to the
Speaker 5: table for them is they see me lose, and they
Speaker 5: see me lose often, and I come home and everything's okay,
Speaker 5: and I feel good about myself and I hug my
Speaker 5: kids and I say and they say, Daddy, is you
Speaker 5: want I said, no, I got.
Speaker 7: Killed a dat but I'm fine.
Speaker 5: And they're learning that, you know, even that, if that's
Speaker 5: enough from a starting point for them, that's an amazing
Speaker 5: place to begin.
Speaker 7: And to look back. I think they'll.
Speaker 5: Understand their dad worked really, really hard at something, and
Speaker 5: they might walk in here one day and say, holy shit,
Speaker 5: that's my dad on the watch.
Speaker 1: One more quick thought, and this is something that I
Speaker 1: just started thinking about while you and I were conversing
Speaker 1: about this. But what if it wasn't just a thing
Speaker 1: that's done every single year during the World Series of Poker.
Speaker 1: What if they just inducted people whenever they wanted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like if they kind of got together as a committee
Speaker 1: and said, like, you know what, let's discuss maybe they
Speaker 1: get together let's say quarterly, and they just said, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's time for Jason to get in. Let's
Speaker 1: put him in. Here's what we're going to do the ceremony.
Speaker 1: Let's go, which goes to your point of like then
Speaker 1: you get a ceremony for one person, right then maybe
Speaker 1: it's next month. They're like, you know what, it's Sever's time.
Speaker 1: These are the reasons, like can everyone in the room vote,
Speaker 1: like if there's a certain number or whatever, then they say, okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do sever whenever. Maybe then you go, you
Speaker 1: go like three years when there's no one because there's
Speaker 1: no one meets the criteria for whatever reason. I don't
Speaker 1: think we're in that period now, but I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: just to make an argument, does like why does it
Speaker 1: have to be like every single year on this date,
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame voting comes up? Like I know that's
Speaker 1: how like other places do it, but like why does
Speaker 1: it have to be like that?
Speaker 2: I'll do you on better. The committee gathers once a
Speaker 2: year and can be on Zoom too. Because there's there's
Speaker 2: not enough people in all in one place. But the
Speaker 2: committee gathers once a year, and let's just say like
Speaker 2: this is in January, and they they have their arguments
Speaker 2: they can make for each player. Jason Jason Kuon can
Speaker 2: go into this meeting pitching the induction of Scott sever
Speaker 2: you know, and and you know, Brian Rask can come
Speaker 2: in there and pitch the induction of Sean Deep and
Speaker 2: then they have they have a couple of weeks to
Speaker 2: you know, think about it, and then have a second
Speaker 2: meeting in which they decide who gets in this year,
Speaker 2: the class of twenty twenty seven, and then during the WSOP,
Speaker 2: and this all stays under wraps. Then during the WSOP,
Speaker 2: depending on how many there are during the main event
Speaker 2: on day one A one induction Day one B one
Speaker 2: induction Day one, see one induction. And if there's five
Speaker 2: people that year, there's just five days in a row
Speaker 2: where a person gets inducted, and if there's only one,
Speaker 2: there's only one. But I think that way, you talk
Speaker 2: among the Hall of Fame crowd who is worthy and deserving,
Speaker 2: and the voting can be on each player individually. If
Speaker 2: Kun suggests that sever has to get in, and he
Speaker 2: as a member can do that. Then the other members
Speaker 2: have to vote yes or no on that person. And
Speaker 2: you know, if Jack Binyon wants to nominate someone, he
Speaker 2: also is free to do so. I think that could
Speaker 2: be a good way to expand this format.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean basically, I think what we're getting at
Speaker 1: is you're having a single ceremony for one person getting in,
Speaker 1: and then you're almost reverse engineering the whole process from there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you're being like, Okay, how do we celebrate this
Speaker 1: one person for their accomplishments in the game and what
Speaker 1: they did on the biggest stage. Okay, that's great, Now
Speaker 1: how do we reverse engineer all of it to get
Speaker 1: them there? And then we can do that multiple times.
Speaker 1: And maybe it is during the WSB made event. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's once a week during the summer, right, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: but it's it's everyone gets their flowers on their own
Speaker 1: special occasion. They're celebrated. Whatever. You could even do cool
Speaker 1: things like you know, when they showed the NFL, like
Speaker 1: they the Hall of Fame member goes to the guy's
Speaker 1: house and knocks on the door, like Nick Shulman just
Speaker 1: like walks up to Jason Kuhon always playing the hunter
Speaker 1: k like right about they're about to go on break,
Speaker 1: shakes his hand. There's cameras around Jason Kuhn, like what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Nick's like you're in buddy
Speaker 1: like that like that, like shit like that, Like let's
Speaker 1: like that would be dope anyway, too much talk tonight.
Speaker 2: It's fore should we take over the Hall of Fame?
Speaker 1: No we should not. It's it's twelve fifty two in
Speaker 1: the morning. Normally I say what time it is done?
Speaker 1: There's no one here, There is no one here. We
Speaker 1: are the last ones here.
Speaker 2: Does make me feel like like ten fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: It does when you and I were always the last
Speaker 2: ones here. It does, or whoever we were working with
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 1: Main event, Baby, we probably wouldn't be the last ones
Speaker 1: here if this thing didn't go six hours today.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you were going to say if Marco
Speaker 2: Valerio didn't show up. That is true.
Speaker 1: Agent Marco in the Flesh showed up, had a conversation
Speaker 1: with us, doing great.
Speaker 2: And I love how Agent Marco is always Agent Marco.
Speaker 2: The way he talks, it's it's authentic.
Speaker 1: It's just who he said to me when you were
Speaker 1: off to the side for second and we were talking.
Speaker 1: He's like, not to sound like I'm interviewing you, and
Speaker 1: then he just kept asking questions like he was actually
Speaker 1: interviewing me. And I was like, no, man, it's it's okay,
Speaker 1: Like it's totally fine. I'm here for it.
Speaker 2: So there's donuts left by the way.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not doing it. I faded the donuts
Speaker 1: all day today and I'm still going to try and
Speaker 1: fade them. So anyway, it's about to be one am
Speaker 1: Remco and I are going to get the heck ou here.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back on Tuesday, August fourth. We'll do
Speaker 1: the same sort of recap style pod at the end
Speaker 1: of that. I think the goal is to get down
Speaker 1: to three handed play.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: The goal today was to get down to six handed play.
Speaker 1: They didn't exactly reach that, so we'll see what comes.
Speaker 2: I think we should have the people, uh leave a
Speaker 2: comment on the video if you're watching it on YouTube
Speaker 2: with who your top three is gonna be? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: like that. Let's go. I'm gonna I'm gonna go. I'll
Speaker 2: just kick this off. I'm gonna go. Jumalan Fang and Gagliano.
Speaker 1: God, I was gonna say the exact same three I
Speaker 1: can't say the same same thing now, So I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go Jumalan fang and I'll say Jamie Chevelle
Speaker 1: runs it back up. Got eleven big mindes to work with,
Speaker 1: buddies in there. It's gotta have some good fortune on
Speaker 1: on on day two, the final table. All right, that's
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us, for Remka Rikima. I am
Speaker 1: Donnie Peters, and we will talk to you guys next.
Speaker 2: Start rat to night on the
Speaker 7: Change Express.