Hello, everyone, Welcome back to a new episode of the Poker Go Podcast. My name is Donny Peters, and I will not be the only voice you are hearing on this microphone. I got my guy Remco Rinkim along side of me. Plus we got some audio from plenty of players as well. We're gonna get into all of that as we recap day one of the w s AP Main Event Final Table. I guess day nine overall, ten, whatever, twelve, eighteen. I feel like today was four days in one with how long these guys played, well over one hundred hands on day one. The plan coming into the day was to go from nine down to six. They didn't even make it there. They only got down to seven. They ended up calling it quits at the end of level forty one. Lucas Jumalan's the chip leader. Han Feng had a surge. He's second in chips. Greg went the other way. He's the short stack, but he's still alive. It just absolutely crazy scenes here at Horseshoe Down on the Loss of Vegas trip Remcro just first off the cuff, thoughts, what did you see here? The atmosphere, whatever you want to throw at me, just throw it. At me, Well, this is why past my bedtime. That's very true, very true. I gotta correct myself. We've we've now made day ten. This was day nine. And the reason I was thinking of that is because I spoke to Michael Gagliano, who said that it's important to mention that he's made day ten, which is not something you ever say when you play poker poker tournaments. But yeah, it's it's it's it's kind of surreal, this this final table business. I was never fortunate enough to travel out for November nine because I didn't live in Vegas at the time, so my final liple memories of the main event are sort of in the post November nine era, and I've been to all of them since, which have all been really cool experiences in and of itself. And this is another first for us because you know, at poker Go, we're no longer doing our thing the way we have in the past, so we're a little bit more on the sidelines, which you know, it's you know, it's neither good nor bad for our experience, but it does change the way we we sort of move around here a little bit and you know, trying to find our footing. But the one thing that I think cannot be understated is how freaking cool this whole set is, this whole stage, the entire production. Of course, tons of people from pocer Goo is still you know, involved in some capacity or at least people that we work with at poker Go. And just the energy, the atmosphere, the excitement from from the players, the rail you can even see, you know, the staff is buzzing, the waiters are walking one step faster. There's just a certain energy in the room. Ran into Michaelmas, Rocky, Maria j Brin Kenny was walking around. There was like a VIP lounge for the sponsor Solana. So all in all, fantastic first night of poker. From that perspective, the atmosphere was definitely great, but don him curious to hear your thoughts. I definitely felt like things fell very flat when you look at this from a poker fan slash consumer perspective, just because of you know, I guess the expected style of play coming into the final table. I think there's two different buckets for how fans would look at this first day of the Final table. There are the diehard poker enthusiasts who I think you and I would probably fall under, and a lot of the listeners of this podcast would also fall into that category as well, where they love the shit right, they don't care if it might be ICM ball out there and it's a little bit more boring, and the pre flop all ins just aren't there every other hand and that sort of stuff. But then on the other side of things, you know, this is now back on ESPN. This first night was on ESPN two. They're going to be moving to ESPN one or just ESPN on Wednesday or sorry, Tuesday and Wednesday. And if you're just flipping through the channels, you're looking for something to land on. The kids have gone to sleep, you know, maybe the wife is dozing off as well. You're like, what am I gonna land on? There's not really that many sports on, especially this late at night. Oh what, Poker's back on ESPN. But then you start watching it, and if you're more of a casual viewer era as Nick Shulman might say, a civilian, you maybe you're like, well, what this is so boring? No one's doing anything. You know, there's one guy dressed like mister Wall Street bets. There's another guy looking like do Flamingo over there with the pink boa no buttons on his shirt. That's Han Fang. We'll get into all that sort of stuff later. But for as loud as the players and the rail and everything, the actual play wasn't that loud, right, So I think it depending on what side of a fan you are. If you're the die hard, you love it and you like getting into the nitty grittiness of it all, and you don't mind the small wall approach and the tight folds that people are making because you understand the ICM dynamics at play and that's the game within the game. But for the casual fan, you might be like, where's the aces versus queens? Where's the suck out, where's the ace king versus you know, the the pocket tens and the guy flops an ace and rivers that, Like, where is all this sort of stuff? Like what is happening? So it's hard, right. I thought it was a good first night. I thought that night one was gonna go like this. You know, we had some pre we had our regular work meetings, and I know some of the people were saying like, oh, it's gonna go so fast. I thought it was so fast, and I was like, no, no shot. Like, if you watch these guys playing on day eight getting down to the final table, a lot of them once the page jumps got bigger and bigger, it was like, Okay, I gotta kind of lock down. And that's also what allowed Lucas Jumlan to get that huge chip lead, right, And then you couple that with the fact that they give these guys two and a half to three weeks off. Everyone's going home, all these players, I mean, even someone like Greg Mueller, Like I know, he's not necessarily the most studied player out there, and you touched a lot on the Faciase podcast with him, by the way, listen to that if you haven't already, it's back on this feed or on the Pokagro YouTube channel. But even someone like him, he sure has like Sean Buchannan in his ear like Okay, you should do this, you should do that. And that was evidence on the second hand of the day when Michael Gagliano opens early Position and Mueller fold days Jack suited, So it's like immediately out of the gate, you're like, oh, that's how Greg's gonna approach this, and He's the last one you would expect to approach it like that. Now, the play did kind of loosen up a little bit, and players acted a little bit more cavalier as things went on, But early on it was very evident that the players were going to just kind of lock in. And I think part of that is, like, obviously the pay jumps getting much bigger. You're now under the final table, bright lights, everyone is watching. You know, you're on ESPN two Live. You probably don't want to make an ass to yourself and make some big mistake, And then you probably had a lot of people in your ears being like, Hey, this is the chip position, this is your ICM value, this is how you got to approach things. These are the only hands that you can raise from early position like that, you can't do this, this and this. You can't just be defending from the big blind with the Queen three off suit anymore. Like it's not just how it is. You can't go broke with top pair or second pair. If you have a flush straw, don't go nuts. Like all that sort of stuff just starts getting into everyone's minds and then they kind of just play everything a bit more close to the vest, which we saw you also had two short stacks who really weren't going anywhere. That didn't help, you know, the speed of play or the excitement of play out there. But again, the diehard in me did enjoy it. I thought the rails were pretty good overall. I did. I did want find myself wanting a little bit more chanting like they did get after its Yeah, like that's when it started to really pick up, right, But before that I expected to see a little bit more chanting, mostly from I think Greg's rail Mueller Israel, you know. But yeah, I thought that was good overall, and I'm excited to see what happens going forward. Han Feng had himself one hell of a day. Started second to last and Chips finished second to first, and Chips so had an incredible run of things. Probably, I mean, we'll talk to him a little bit later. I interviewed him afterwards, and he'll tell you like, he couldn't have imagined a better start. Lucas Jumlan, he started off kind of hot, then he had a lull where it was like, oh, oh, here comes the slide, and then he hit this run of hands where it was like five six, seven, eight, hands in a row where he just won them all and it was like boom, I'm back over two hundred million. Here we go. Greg Mueller had some interesting moments throughout it, like he was he pulled out the check dark at one point we were both like, what the hell is happening here? I think it's important with this in the Jumalan first because you know he touched briefly upon getting coached by Patrick Leonard, and also how you know, and also you know, me being face to face with him talking to him just minutes after play concluded. Just the guy just seems to be made for this spot. He's so cold, he's so relaxed, he just seems ready for the moment. And that was great to hear. Yeah, I mean, let's just go to it right now. So here is Lucas Jumalan immediately following the bagging of chips talking to Remco. So, Lucas, this first night for you, it seems as though you had a game plan, you stuck to it. You were able to pressure your opponents, which is something you of course have to do with the big stack. But how you look back on it, are you satisfied with where you are right now? Yeah, I mean satisfied to still be in the tournament right and what the chip lead still is great and we're just gonna adapt to the situation tomorrow and whatever whatever they throw out as we'll be okay. Patrick Leonard told me and Donnie before play started. He goes, I'm on team USA for today, and he posted some stuff on his stories studying with you, perhaps running some sims. What wasn't been like to work with someone like Pats? You know, he's the emptt goat, so it's just been truly an honor and I can't thank him enough. And you know, I wouldn't have played nearly as well today if I hadn't put. In the work with him. I'm just so thankful for all of his support and time that he's put in him. What is this daven like? Was it what you expected it to be? Did you feel any more adrenaline? Were able to sort of keep a levelhead? You know, I've like never gotten too high, too low. It's just like not me. So you know, I'm I'm good. I'm ready to go tomorrow and we'll it'll probably set in after it's all over, but you know, I'm just just right in the wave. So one of the things I would be curious and we can never like replay this. But had Lucas Jummelan ended the night, had the night come to an end when he was on the slide, I wonder how he would have talked to you right right like, because he got down to a run one hundred and fifty hundred and sixty million, right, and it would look like not that he was really ever in jeopardy of losing the chipley, but you had Lori Sascelotti starting to come up. You had Han Fang starting to come up at the end, and it was like, wait, hold on. Even at one point you had Greg Mueller starting to come up. He hit over eighty million, it was like, wait, is this gonna start to go the wrong way for Jumalan. Obviously he did course correct towards the end. He caught some heat to finish things out. So spirits are high. But you know, I just in an alternate universe, I would have been like, hey, your first question would have been something like, hey, maybe it didn't go as you might have expected. You know, how are you going to kind of regroup overnight, refocus, lock back in for tomorrow? I said, On the last podcast, when I was doing it myself, just kind of previewing the table, I said, I think this kid wants the smoke, meaning I think he wants to be champion, he wants the spotlight, and I don't think that. I think there are two different things to want. There's wanting to win the WSP main event. There's wanting to win ten million dollars and like, you get the glory of the bracelet all that sort of stuff, But do you really want to be Poker's ambassador and be in the spotlight. That is an entirely different thing, and it's kind of just thrust on players, and I don't think everyone in their heart of hearts would admit that they want that. They want to everything else and then they don't want to have to do that sort of stuff. I think Lucas Jumelan wants it all, every single part of it, which I think is great. And I think Patter Lenard also tweeted or put it on Instagram that this kid is more ready than anyone to be the champion, And you make a really good point. There's a difference between wanting to win ten million and wanting to be the champion. And carried carried that torture or how you want to call it, because that was very apparent from the way he was sort of carrying himself around the table. He also, you know, in true chip leader style. You know, we think back of guys like Joe McKee and kry Aldemir Jose Ensan who had dominating chip leads. He also played like a chip leader. And there was one streak where you and I were watching as we were dipping in and out. I think he won five or six hands in a row, and then a double up hand Fang, which was sort of a pivotal hand. That sort of change changed things around for Feng, who had been short for a very long time, literally just waiting for for a hand for him then to get it in. I was thinking it was Queen Jack of clubs on Queen ten nine with two clubs versus Ace four with only the ace of clubs from Jumalan that allowed him to double up, and that sort of you know, halted his I guess way of running over the table for just a few minutes, but he continued pressing and pressing and pressing, and he back to two hundred and twelve million chips. Eighty five big blinds Han Feg second and chips with forty three bigs, which you know very unlikely, but you had a chance to talk to him. I did talk to him afterwards. Cameras were all over this guy, rightfully so, wearing that pink bow. As I mentioned. If you guys haven't seen the photos, if you haven't seen the coverage, you need to check it out. For what Han Feng showed up in I had to ask him about it in the interview. Also asked him about his day. Here is me talking to Han Feng immediately following play. All right, Han Feng, Yeah, second shortest to come into the day, second biggest stack, going through the secondary of the final table. Could you have imagined a better day? No? This is this is like if I could choose. An outcome, this was it. This was it. I don't think I get much better way unless like somehow I have more chips in lucas, but that's almost impossible mathematically, right, But this is as good as it gets. So second and chips come back tomorrow five PM. A lot of time to prepare. I'm a little sweaty, a little stinky, very thirsty. Uh yeah, they got really good shots on me. I can't wait to see those. So talk to me about the mindset where you're battling for as one of the shorter stacks for much of the day, right, and then you get that late serge. You know, how is you just stay in the moment and be able to focus through it all when you're you're when you're rushing towards the end of the day. It's just hand by hand, man, That's all I can say. It's just hand by hand. Uh, just know my strategy go as I like. It's just one hand at a time. I mean, it's it's just as simple as that. I don't have like a uh, I'm not like trying to do anything. It's just you know, I know my spot, I know my hand, and then I just I just play that no no ego, no. Yeah. It kept going over to your rail quite a bit. Maybe not the biggest rail here at final table, but definitely one that you're close with. You talked a lot, you got Michael Joe's up there helping you coaching. Just talk to me about having that support system right behind you. It's awesome. It's kind of like a nice little mental stability sort of thing. Keep me saying, and yeah. He got picked out. The guy was screaming. I don't know if you guys heard. That's unfortunate. But yeah, he's like a lot of people here that are like big brothers to me. Love the support from Houston, repping Houston. Maybe we do it again, Tomaio, And now I'm next. Talk to me about the fit. I got, what went into it? What's the inspiration behind it? Okay? So I told the other interviewers early on before we started, this is I'm dope Flamingo from One Piece, which is One Piece of anime. I think it's the most profitable anime there is. And I was watching so he's like in one of the he was one of the arcs in one of the arcs are I'm very tired in one of the major arcs of One Piece where everything starts to happen. This is the main villain in that. And and I was watching all this during days like three to six on day breaks. I just got very inspired. I felt the calling. So I bought this uniform across student and I was just the biggest thing was hoping his fit right, and a. Fit amazing, A fit amazing. I can't complain. So, yeah, and it's good TV. It's good TV. Oh, it's definitely great TV. Yeah. All right, last question here, So now you're second in Chip's heading forward to the second day. What's the mentality now? You know, before you're probably trying to ladder up a couple of spots, but now it's like, I got a shot to win this game. Thing. I was never trying the ladder, that's my answer. You heard Hans ay they're tired, thirsty. Right before the interview, before I officially started asking him questions, He's like, is there a water around? There's no water around. I was like, no, man, it just looks like empty beers everywhere. Okay, it's the opposite of Greg Mueller who kept saying, man, drink so much water. I have to peel like every he So. For people who don't know a little bit inside baseball here, but we were set up in media row. There's a curtain between us. Then there's a bunch of like the salon of VIP Lounge or the production area, et cetera. We're a good fifty to one hundred feet away from the table. We can't exactly see the table due to the curtains. But they didn't have official breaks due to the coverage, right, But they did have commercial breaks of course on ESPN two, and during those, let's say anywhere from two minutes to maybe five, six, seven minutes of a commercial break, the players would get up and run to the bathroom. And Mueller for sure was the most frequent bathroom goer by far. Oh yeah, Laurie Sascolotti always went swell those two. Han Fang, I would say it was a probably third. But other than that, I don't think I saw Lucas Jumlan one time. I'm pretty sure he probably didn't drink any water today. Mario Boose I didn't see him at all, you know. But but Mueller was back here a plenty, which was which was pretty crazy. Mueller seemed in good spirits overall with things. He was kind of all over the place, as I think we would expect coming into this final table. His brother was here with his kids. His brother was here with his kids. He had he had pretty sure the biggest rail. They were loud at times, not tallest, yes, for sure. Rick Talckett, former NHL player coach of the Philadelphia Flyers, called a kid. Called him a kid. It was such a hot It was the kids just out there doing it like it's such such a hockey thing. That was cool to see. I didn't see Sean Buchanan, but I didn't really walk out there. Sean mcannon was probably covered under a hoodie like he always does. I know. David Odie be bigger friend of the pod, always a listener. He was out there as well with his wife. They were in the FBT shirts. I gotta say, I'm not I'm not digging the Shadow hat. I know what it is. It's obviously for Shadow Creek, but it just treads a bit too much on Jerry Yang the Shadow. Oh my god, it's so funny. Mueller's nickname is FBT, and I think if you tune in, you'll be like, oh, this guy is the Shadow. You start calling in the Shadow. Well he's not the Shadow. The fucking Shadow is Jerry Yang. Okay, that's just how it is. I'm sorry, Greg. I thought maybe he like come out with like a hockey themed hat or something, but the shadow thing is just stuck. And he mentioned it on the podcast that I did with him, how Mad Glands and Natcho were calling him the Shadow, which obviously you can't change your nickname mid career, which is not allowed. It's like a guy in his corner Bucky. People call Matthew Wantman Bucky, and I'm like, yeah. But no, it's not Bucky. No, it's the same. Whenever someone has Bucky. I'm like, I didn't know Sean M. Cannon was here, and then he's I done. He read for some stats. Yeah, let's go. Okay. I ran some numbers using the old AI shadowed by by the Poconoos, doing hand for hand coverage. It's it's a it's a job. Someone has to do it, and I'm. Happy to think I was. I was slamming refresh. I'm like, what hand are they on? What's going on? You know you have to It's it's God's work they're they're doing out there. So okay, here we go. One and thirty one hands played. I believe that's correct. My talian perhaps ended a bit too soon because they were still playing by the time we were recording on the On the broadcast, let me just refresh real quick. Jumalan had thirty four preflub raises Geez, and second best was Jamie Shavell, who had eighteen preflub raises and Shavell was all in five times. Han Feng was all in seven times, So like goes to show that those guys were getting after it. If we look at the standings now, Shavell was not rewarded for his aggression. He's got thirteen bigs coming into the next day. But one of those all ins he lost to Rami Hamoud. Yes, and he had the tens versus the acet Queen that left him pretty short and he had to fight from there but still alive. Right, yeah, exactly, And that's whole that's the whole thing. It's all about survival. Greg Mueller went into that as well. I spoke to him at length. The first question, by the way, I'll tee this up. First question is is inside baseball And only if you listen to the podcast that I did with him will it all make sense. But Greg explains it a little bit. So tonight chicken in broccoli or ice cream? You know what, there's no plan. I mean, we might end up at Johnny Rockets, which would have milkshake, which is like ice cream, will not be chicken and broccoli. But not because I'm tilted or anything. I'm just hungry. So whatever I'm craving, you know. I feel like I made one air. It's arguably hard to say it was an air. I played the hand poorly from start to finish. If I three bet, I win the hand. If I lead on the flop, I win the hand. If I check raise, I win the hand. If I bet the turn, I win the hand. The only way I don't win the hand is when I check fold the river, which I had full intentions of check calling. That was a big pot. It was a big turning point. I'd be at the time, like endless chips, a little irritated about that. Other than that, I'm very happy with my play. I didn't get too many cards, and I battle in there so there would be no reason for me to go on to the ice cream. And I realize how blessed I am see this rail, I mean incredible to see incredible like these guys took time from their lives, flying in from everywhere and relentless cheer support like positivity. I mean, it's unbelievable. There's so many things that I can bring up here. We could talk for an hour straight just about tonight because I saw so many, so many different things unfold in front of my eyes. But I want to start with the rail because the amount of noise, the amount of beverages that were being consumed, the amount of just overall cheer that was going on. Yeah, does that add more pressure to perform because you don't want these guys to come here and girls for a ninth place finish. Yeah. I mean, truthfully, there's a bit of pressure. I said, you know, these I gotta, we gotta you know, I want to do it for them. So, but I mean the amount they fired me up and they could see maybe I was hunched over a little bit, you know, st pepped me up, and when I did win a hand, never stopping singing okay, you know, like in a classy, positive way, going at it with the other rail like it was. I mean, I'm a winner winner. It was just based on that. You know, his name escases me of the code to Philadelphia Flyers coach talk Rick talking. He was on the broadcast in the ESPN and he called you a kid. I thought that was the most purest hockey sort of speeches or hockey speak, if you will, y, And I just love how it felt like, you know, I could feel the camaraderie. I could feel sort of the spirit that you guys all sort of carrys as hockey players play. Playing with the alumni, do you feel like you you have all their support and how what is it like to have that sort of I guess you know hockey spirit here. Yeah, it's it's it's that's what's so great about the hockey community. You know, we're we're all the boys, and it's a team game. Everybody's in it for each other, and you have fun. You juice each other, you make fun of each other, but it's all in good fun and you have each other's backs. And like I said, it's uh so fortunate just for this experience is some I'll never forget ever, regardless of how much money I make or what place I finish. I mean, this is just a moment I'll cherish forever. Important question about the hand that you are a little frustrated with. What was it in the moment that didn't allow you to make those better decisions? Yeah? I don't. I just kept changing my game plan throughout the hand, and you know, ultimately I got to give him credit. He barreled very big, put his not his tournament life because he had me cover. But if I call that he is extremely crippled and I'm cruising, and hey, he made a good play. He didn't have a better hand, and he won the plot. So I don't want to take anything away from him. Just a little frustrated myself because I feel like I had a beat on him and I had a plan and just kind of straight a bit from him. You know, final thing here? What sort of preparation or maybe contemplation is necessary for tomorrow? Yeah, I need a good sleep and I just got to have a good, good, good energy and positive attitude because you know, these things as you see change so fast. Hand hit a three outer and now he's crushing, right, it just goes so quick. He's not crushing it's numberin level, but he's crushing it. You know. That's right here. So yeah, I mean you just have to come back and not give up. Be positive. Hey, if somebody told me you're going to be the shortest stack with seven left at the main event on the final table, Like, where would I sign the dotted line? Like do you know what I mean? So I can't I can't be negative. I have to be positive, coming with a good attitude and ready to go. Hey, don't kill me. Out down, but not out is Greg Mueller. And you guys heard him talk about it there, and we want to get into this hand because it was one of the bigger, more interesting and also entertaining hands at the final table. It was the one where Greg had the King jack off from the blind against his finished counterpart to Lourie Sascolotti, who opened queen Ate suited and then just barreled off on the King six four five six board, leading to a river fold from Muller, putting the best hand in the muck and allowing Sascolotti to chip up quite nicely. But it also allowed Mueller to drop right back. This was right after he was kind of surging right, He was kind of started slipping early on just just not not like losing any really big pods. It was more like a couple of million here, a couple of million there. Whatever. Then he starts running back up, back up, back up. He's got eighty million. Then he plays this big hand. And honestly, when when we were watching it, I saw the open, I see him call, I see the flop come out, and I say, okay, Mueller is about to fucking have one hundred million, Like he's about to just cause because Sascallotti's a very interesting cat, Like he's on one side of things, he he'll like opt to play conservative. On the other side of things, he'll like just have these moments. When I was like, you know what, fa yolo, let's go like I'm the Finnish guy who likes plo. Let's just bos the wall. So I was like, okay, he might just like go nuts here. And when he when Soascallotti bet the turn, I was like, oh, like he's he's going for it. And then I was like, Midler, you just got to click call, I know, and the blind check was like he baffling. Yeah, So on the so Soascallott he bets the turn, and Mueller does two things that I thought were very interesting. One he called within two seconds yep, and then he immediately checked dark. And I'm like, God, this is the ubas be made of that file table. Why are we snap calling? I listen. I know we don't want people to be tanking out there, but the snap call check dark, I mean, that's Phil help me, that's not Greg Mueller. I mean what was that. I have no idea, and I think Greg still doesn't know why he did that. I think he was, you know, actively trying to still figure it out as we were talking. But I think it was I think it was him just like rushing. He was rushing at the time, and he was like whatever, I can just do no wrong, like I'm just act act ac dak dak. And then he got to the river and he was like, oh shit, this guy just bet thirty five million, Like what the heck's going on? Yeah, and if he if he calls Sasklott is really short and he's got over one hundred million, and you know, he's basically one of the top contenders. And now we're looking at the board. Here twenty nine point five million, twelve big bines from Mueller. You know, Han Feng was down to five bigs. So you know, this doesn't say much, but you definitely sleep a lot better when you have one hundred and six million, which is what Han Feng now has going into day two. But Mueller still is in there, he's still he's still fighting, he's still battling, and he still has a chance. So that's that's obviously good to see because he clearly had a ton of support. Before we move on to the next interview. I just wanted to point ot couple of small things Mike Madisow and you know, Twitter of course is always great during the WSP Man Event final table. You know, it has been better in the past, and I feel like Twitter of course has lost lost a lot of it shine in recent years. I guess I wonder why Mike Madisaw tweeted out watching his main event final table is so brutal to watch. And that was quote tweeted by Sam Greenwood, who is always negative about people's plays, which he loves to call out in his I believe is the substack that he has. And Sam Greenwood said, punt of the day, punted the day exactly. Greenwood said, and I quote all I do is criticize the play of the people at Big FT's and the WSP. And this has been an extremely enjoyable FT thus far. Pace, the play has been fine, quality of poker has been good, and no one is playing scared. So that's the Greenwood perspective. And then terms Chan, who is just you know, tweeting. He's not responding to this at all. Teran Chan tweets LoJack opens cut off folds a seven suited small one Folds seven's Baby on Folds King King nine off. I assume they're all correct, But how do you guys watch this stuff? Obviously you know? Indicating that, I mean that goes back to what I was saying earlier. You have the two camps. Yeah, but like two things can be true. Greenwood is enjoying this from like almost like you know, an artistic perspective, like the art of poker and all the method is involved in it. And TAM's chan you know who is not watching it for that type of enjoyment. He's watching it to be entertained. Is not getting it getting that out of this final table. And I think that really speaks to the two different ways the game is being viewed. I mean, I I would would say that it's it's similar to viewing soccer. A casual person who's going to sit down and watch a ninety minute match is going to sit there and bitch and complain and say, what the hell is this? So no one's scoring, they're not even taking shots, what's going on? Whereas I mean, you and I love soccer, right and we might say, like this is awesome, look at the flow. It's it's for using a word you just use It's very artistic out there, you know, whereas somebody on the more casual side of thing that just wants the highlight reel, they're gonna do just that, watch the highlight reel. And this is why poker from an entertainment perspective not to go too far down this path. But like poker on ESPN itself, just using that as an example, because that's where this is being aired, is almost best served as an edited episode because the casuals will just tune in. You can put banger after banger after banger of hands and you can just cram it into an hour or two hours. Boom, that's it. That's your highlight reel. Right. But then you know, as you and I know, I mean, we work for Poker Girl, we're live streaming all the time. Like it's unless you are really into it, it's hard to watch live poker. It's just it's hard to do. And like Terrence Chance said, like I'm assuming all this stuff is correct, and it is likely correct, but you as a viewer at home, like you want the guy to just pile the A seven suited, like you want to just go all and go nuts, like you want Greg to click call there with the King Jack like, you want all this stuff to happen, but it's hard. I always, you know, we always commonly mentioned. One thing that I think it was Nick Petrangelo told you is that these guys are trying to figure out a math exam. Yeah, at the Final Table, that's what they're trying to do. What is the best decision that makes me the most money in the long run. And that is not necessarily exciting. It is not. I'm sorry, it's just not. But that's why it's tricky because then you stick something live like this on TV. So a person who just wants to watch fireworks, they're not going to get all the fireworks. And that's why I was going to close out what I was trying to say by saying that the worst kind of review you can get for your product in this specific scenario is when Sam Greenwood loves it. That is the worst review you can get because the punt of the day, which is something that he writes, that is what you want. You want the first hand of the Final Table to be the punt of the day. And then people who are casually watching at home, sitting on their couch in Kentucky or somewhere in Iowa are watching this and like, oh my god, ah Jack versus King ten offsuit, this is super entertaining. And to your point, I think that from a mainstream, mainstream perspective, having poker on ESPN is phenomenal. Like it it's exciting for me to see, you know, chips and cards on the table, seeing Jeff Platt, hearing the voices of Nick and Ali by the way, who are phenomenal tonight again as always Jason Kuhn too. Will get to him in a minute. But I do think that the game of poker itself is best served in a compacted format. Same let's it's who you're serving it too. But like I'm saying, for that audience. Like on ESPN, I think edited stuff is probably the best, right. And then if the diehards like you and I and Sam Green I said, I want to seek out more than that, then you go to a full livestream product, right, And that's where it gets tricky because then it you know, then obviously I mean again not to get too far down this path, which we already are way too far down this path. But then it's like it's like resources and editing time and where do you put it where and at what time do you put it out there? And if you do something live but then wait for edited episodes, are you spoiling the result? And like it's that whole thing, right, So I don't really know what the best answer is necessarily, right, I like, I guess in a perfect world, you would have two broadcasts running at the same time. One is live and one is somehow a live but edited episode. Like I don't even know if that's possible, but maybe that's just where my mind goes. But it is tricky. It is. It is definitely fun to go on Twitter and to search for WSP and see what people are saying who are not living the poker life every single day. And I think that because Twitter has not been as popular of a platform as it was in the past, we're not getting a lot of those opinions. I have a feeling, and maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that probably five, six, seven years ago, Twitter was a place where the everyman will sort of just say random things like, oh, I'm having a same which, oh I'm watching poker on TV. And I feel like that sort of part of Twitter has sort of died out as we are no longer in this sort of oversharing state of the world, and it's more, I guess, boiled down to people following. People are following, the influencers are following the people that they want to follow because they live interesting lives. They're no longer broadcasting themselves as much, so we're not able to see that in the same way. But still I saw a few tweets from casual fans, which always warms my heart because you know, this will reach some people who will you know, perhaps for sure, perhaps bring an old home game back to life, or maybe you know, find a way to play online poker, and that's obviously all ultimately the goal with this. Yeah, I mean it's you know, I agree with you in terms of like just just seeing people post about it on social media, whether it is positive or negative, I still think is a good thing because it's being talked about. Whereas those people if this wasn't on ESPN or you know, if it wasn't anywhere else are available out there, then people aren't seeing it and they're not talking about it, So you know, at least it is being talked about it, and I think that's good overall. I think it was the very positive show. I was a big fan of it, and I would say that, you know, I think you. I think a lot of the listeners out there for this podcast were definitely into it, right, I fully understand like where someone like a Terrence Chan is coming from, or Mike Madisow is coming from, and just Mike Madison, Like the problem that I have with opinions like that are he's just like yelling to yell, like he's not offering any sort of suggestions or ideas to improve it. He's just like this is horrible. Like can you just like be like, hey, this should be better because X y Z, like that would be a better way to do it. You know, I don't know. Anyway, We're all over the place. I think we do. We still have Gagliano. Cute, we do still have Gagliano ready to go. He's one of the final seven players remaining. Gagliano came in with forty four million or so something like that, finished with forty two million. Like he just coming in. He punched the clock for the nine to five. He went to work. He was he was kind of up a little bit early and you were like, oh, here comes Gags was second for second and and then he kind of which second in chips. That was a spot where so Lucas Jumalan never lost the top spot, even though he did slide a little bit at some point from his peak, he never lost the top spot. Second place, though, was a revolving door you had. I think did Greg Muller get up to the second place at one point? I can't remember. I think he was started there. Maybe Greg Mueller, Lori Sascelotti for sure. Michael Gagliano, Yes, it ends up with Han Feng up there as well. So like all these players had a chance at second place, and it was like, oh and all all that was happening while the Jumalan slide was happening, So it was like, oh, is somebody going to really get the heat and catch up to Jumalan. One of those players was Gagliano. Played I think as expected in that it was just very very technically sound, you know, not probably the most above the rim high level poker stuff, but in terms of like just playing your best game from start to finish across all the hands that were played. He was just consistent across the board, and that's what you get from Michael Gagilian. He's been in the game forever, He's played a bazillion hands, he's a coach, he plays online, he plays live, all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I mean there was the one big hand where he three bet with the ace king against Jumalan's open. When Jumalan had the ace Queen, Jumalan calls it comes Queen Queen X So Jumalan flops, trips, and Gagliano just loses the sea bet ultimately folds to the check raise from Jumalan, And yeah, he lost that pop. But it's like he doesn't get married to hands, he doesn't get caught in big situations. So yeah, maybe he didn't finish on the high that he once was, but a very good overall for Gagliano. And you know, I don't think he's somebody who I think he's both unassuming but also wouldn't be a surprise if he ultimately goes on to win. And here is Remco talking to Gagliano after play Day one ended. What a roller coaster it has been watching on the sidelines. How would you describe today? First off, that was day nine. I am very happy to have a Day ten coming up because you don't get many. Double digit days in poker. You know, I'm a little tired. It was a longer day than kind of anticipated. But it wasn't like this was in the books. This could have happened, you know, shipstacks were lined up in a way where if the all in stack won a bunch of all in you could have played for a while. So that happened, and we played for a while. I kind of had a pretty good start, kind of ran it up a little bit, and then kind of just had a few knock on our way. I think I just kind of got made the second best hand a few times and got away from it what I did, which was fortunate, And I'll just see what happened tomorrow, you know, kind of same thing. I'm little on the short side, but just in that zone where I'm gonna just kind of have my game and. See what happens. How different if it was different? Does this feel to your your other final tables that you played in your career? I mean every final table is different feel to it, you know, just the group of guys and uh. Just the atmosphere. Obviously, the atmosphere is ridiculous. Here a lot of. Loud, energetic rails, which has been a lot of fun. I wear Earbucks for most of the day because I don't like a. Lot of loud noises and just a little easier. To lock in. Kind of a shame that it's about, because I really like talking with this corooper guys. We had a lot of fun you know, leading up to the funnel table and stuff. So we'll see what that holds for the you know, the next day. And uh, a lot of fun though. The roads were great, you know, a lot of back and forth. The O Canada was amazing, you know. So, uh, you have to say, final. Question, how has the support been for you? Obviously there is a few moments every now and then to talk to the rail even just from a mental perspective, to like sort of break the ice literally almost to have sort of someone to get some feedback from. Yeah, it's been amazing. I have family here, friends here, a bunch of hooker players I don't get to see too much, which is nice. The support online has been unbelievable. The amount of messages I got in the last few days, just pushing me a walk and tell me how you know, everyone's proud of me. Regardless. A result has been just just unbelievable. I haven't had my phone all day, so I'm I'm sure I have some messages and Twitter, you know, acts and stuff, so I'll check it out later. But it's unbelievable. It's been a lot of fun. They got some great hats and shirts and I can't wait to, you know, bring those home. It'll be a lot of fun. That was Michael gaglian I felt like he was almost in a rush to get out. I mean in a way like he was done. He was being open about the fact that he was tired. Uh. He said he thought it was went longer than he expected. And and this this is something I've said before. The players who are the most well studied also get the most fatigued because there's constant thoughts running through their mind on every single decision. And for players who are more recreational, they just play the hand that's dealt and then deal with the circumstances and they aren't necessarily being I guess zapped from an energy perspective because of how much is at stake or how big this decisions are. And I think Gagliano, of all the players, is probably feeling that the most. Yeah, I would agree, you know, he's I think he's one hundred percent locked in at all times. And then to your point that that ends up being pretty mentally taxing, and also to his point about it going longer than expected, I do think everyone expected this thing to be done in for day one, it'd be done in two and a half to three and a half hours in that window, it ended up going what five or six hours, so it went went very long. And then it's not only that the full length of the time is long, but everything is just drawn out. Like you play like three hands, there's a commercial break, you come back, you play three more hands, and every hand takes you know, five ten minutes. It's just long. It's drawn out. Then you come back from the break, but you're still kind of standing around because they're waiting for the commercial wrap up. Then it's boom, you're back in your seat. So like there's just a lot of stuff going on. So it's just everything is just drawn out and you're almost sitting there like, oh man, is this day gonna end? You know, is this day gonna end? Plus I think that part of maybe feeling drained is if the play itself had a bit more really really big climactic moments, really really big all ins. We had a few of them, but not a ton of them. Let's say you a dozen instead of like the four or five that we had. Then everyone's adrenaline's pumping a little bit more. It's easier to get through the day versus if you're just sitting there and like everyone's kind of folding a lot, then you're kind of just like this is boring, and when you're bored, you can kind of doze off, But then you're fighting with your your brain to like stay focused, so that I feel like that plays into it too. So yeah, I mean it's a big it's a big mind fuck out there, honestly, and sometimes not just in this poker tournament, but this is the one that where things are generally emphasized the most. But the player who wins might be the one who is maybe able to just maintain focus for the longest time. Yeah, and also the and not blow up, the player who can let all the side show, all the noise, all the all the past decisions sort of slide slide or glide off of their shoulders the most easily, Like you cannot allow yourself, you know, in like a Mueller's case, to get stuck in thinking back of the hand where things didn't go your way. And obviously, like Greg's a professional, he's been doing this for a very long time, but it's very possible that he goes to sleep tonight still thinking about that hand because of what could have been. So the player who's able to, you know, shut off the brain in the moments that it can can be shut off, those are the players who will have the most success long term. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great point by you. And it's such a big thing is if you're able to just once a hand is played and done, whether you win it or you lose it, it's done. It's in the past. And I know Pad's was on the rail, you know, in the Lucas Jumlan corner, Patrick Leonard, and he's always talked about this. The only thing that matters is the next hand, how many big blinds you have, your position at the table, and trying to play that hand the best, like that's all you can focus on. And and I just don't know if Greg Mueller is that type of player or if he's gonna let this one stew on him right. I'm sure his camp namely Sean Buchanan. It is just like, be like, forget about it. Forget about it, man, forget about it. And he might be saying like, man, if I just if I just called there, if I just three bat pre if I just check raise the flop, you know, if I if I do anything different in that hand, I probably win that hand, right yeap. And it's it's hard to forget about that stuff in the moment, but you have to forget about it. And I will say that, while I don't know how Greg will, I will say that he's been in the game a long time and going back to a lot of stuff that he said on the podcast with You to Face the Ace podcast, it's like he understands that, like there's gonna be highs, there's gonna be lows, and you do have to just forget about it and move on. So and we're gonna see, you know, come come tomorrow, come Tuesday, when everyone is listening to this, how how he reacts from that all, and we'll see if he can spin it up. He's got what's gonna be just under ten big blinds, because the blinds are going to go up to one point five to three million, so he'll have just Shy have ten big blinds to start the day. Jamie Shavel will have eleven big Linds right ahead of him. So it's there are two fewer players than there were when they're started on the final table, but it's kind of a very similar situation. You have a very big chip leader, you have a guy who's comfortably in second, and then you have two guys who are very short and kind of probably gonna try and wait each other out, and then you have these middling stacks. So even though two fewer players, it does set up very similar to how it's set up coming into Monday, which is interesting. So we'll see how it goes. Donnie, I got to ask you for prediction. Is they two also going to be a slow day? I think it starts slow, but I think in this case where what we didn't see today is we saw the bust out from Eva Gorus Evil Goru, and that didn't really open the floodgates, right, It just kept pretty much par for the course, pretty much a grind throughout. I think if let's say Muler for example, finds a hand earlier, he goes that he gets picked off, he's out. I think we open the floodgates, right. I think part of that is because people will have locked up what is it, one point seventy five million at that point, So it's it's a bit more definitely coming into today. Nobody wants to be the first player to go home. Who does doesn't get any extra money, right, that's a big thing. Right, But now it's like, okay, I made an extra seven hundred and fifty k, Like, let's go. We started gotta start getting after it. We got to start trying to put ourselves in position to win. Another factor in this is and he said it in the interview, Han Feng said he was never coming in just the ladder up, but he was handcuffed by his chip stack. Right now, he's gonna knock it. He's in second place, like he might just be like, you know what, fit, I'm gonna try and go for the damn thing. I'm gonna try and finish day two of the final table to really put myself in position to win ten million dollars on the third and final day, which means at times that could mean challenging Lucas Jumlan and another player, Laurie Sasclatti. That guy didn't give a shit in a lot of spots. Oh yeah, it was great to see. He was like, listen, I'm the Finn here and I'm gonna play like well he even. Said like he prefers po Yeah, of course at first he's from Finland. That's why this is probably boring to him. So those three being the top three stacks, I feel like it could be a lot of fun on this second day of play. We'll see how it goes. Looking forward to it, what do you what do you you. Got a prediction here or how things will play out? I mean looking at the board right now. The Jumalan Fang Sasclott three handed battle, if that's what we end up with, would be phenomenal, Like those three guys all have what it takes to make that a very entertaining battle. And then at the same time, I like the mechanical tactical play of Gagliano. I love Rami Hamoud with his Canadian rail and. The and the he had the fossil Man sunglasses Greg Ramer because he knocked out Greg Grahmer. Greg Grahmer gave him the fossil gave him the glasses, the snake eyes glasses. He had both of. Them on the table. Was so crazy, Yeah, brilliant. And then they also made reference to it in the broadcast, which is awesome. And then a Shavel you know, had the big ups and downs, he was all in multiple times, won a big one, lost the big one, and then there's Mueller at the bottom of the counts. Really, you know, this is one of those things that has happened so many times where you come into a final table and you're you're thinking to yourself, like, you know, I don't I don't know these people. I have no connection with these people. And then as you watch the episodes you know, which we're now airing on ESPN, as you learn some more about them, and then as you watch them play for a whole day today and then obviously again tomorrow, you're you're you're slowly but surely finding reasons why you can buy into the story of each and every one of these players. There's something that that all of them have going for them, and you know, some of the stories might be a little harder to do uncover, or perhaps you know the story doesn't run as deep, but I can I can sort of find a way for myself to root for all of these players, which is really cool to see. Lots of positive energy, no negativity, you know, no conflict. It's just been really really good to see. And then Donnie, I think all that's left for us is to do a hard pivot into the Manda myth, the legend, Jason Kuhn. The legend he is. So as part of the festivities for this first day of the WSP Main Event Final Table, they did announce the Hall of Fame inductees or inductee I should say, because it was just a single player for the twenty twenty six class, and that was, of course Jason Kuhn, the Legend, the icon. I mean, I know, we throw around the world Goat all the time. He very much might be the actual goat, like he is that good of a player. He's won two bracelets on his resume, countless Triton titles, bunch of PGT tos. He won the PGT Championship a bunch of years ago when it was winner take all for that five hundred K prize. Of course, his casket cash game resume speaks for itself. He plays insanely high stakes throughout his career up to numbers that are like, you know, here's a small house, here's a big house in the small blind, the big blind. That's where bettan in this one. He's done it online, he's done it live, you know, all that sort of stuff. I really I can't think of, Like, if you were to make a yeah butt for Jason Kuhn, I don't really know what it would be. Maybe it's like, well, yeah, but he doesn't play mixed games, but it's like, Okay, I don't really care because everything that he does in the big bet space so far outweighs anything anyone else has done in a lot of spaces that it just doesn't matter. He really is a true one of one in the industry. Also honestly one of the fucking nicest guys in the universe. Yes, just for as big as he is as a poker player, as successful as he is, likely as rich as he is all this sort of stuff, he is just a down to earth dude who will just come in and just shoot the shit with you, ask you how you're doing, talk about your kids with you, all that sort of stuff. Just a great person and it's an honor to see him go into the Hall of Fame. He was the only player inducted, which I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about with that. I saw some stuff on social media. Well, they fix the voting to get more people in. They fix the voting where it could allow for more people to go in, and then you have just one player go in. So now it's gonna be a whole thing. And this is the year when it's like, Okay, the backlog is here, is deep to get in? Is sever going to get in? Is east I Sheinberg going to get in? Like what's going to happen? But by the way, I want to just point this out, Diane and I have been been super I guess I don't want to say against the Hall of Fame. We've been super unhappy with the way the Hall of Fame has been operating in the past. And I was really excited for this change. And of course you cannot you could not steer the voting public, which are the Hall of Fame members, into a way for them to like hash out how can we get multiple people inducted? That's just not how this works. But I was excited to have multiple people inducted. Now I thought we were going to get two. I thought it was just gonna be there would have been two. I thought it was going to be Coon and Deep. Okay, I thought it was probably gonna be Coon and sever. Yeah, that was my third and then maybe Deep next year. But you know either way. But the one thing I wanted to emphasize here is that this sort of quote unquote problem of having this backlog is only going to get worse every single year. Mike Madisow is never getting into the Hall of Fame. If you don't get in on your first ballot, it is almost a guarantee that you're not going to get in because more and more guys are going to turn forty that have these insane resumes. Chidwick is not forty yet. Brin Kenny is not forty yet. Jason Kuhn inducted into the Poker Hall of Fame as the third player on the all time money list right now. So anyone who is younger than Kuhn and who is in the top fifty whenever they become eligible, unless you know they're like a one off, are going to probably have a good case to get into the Poker Hall of Fame because guess what if you can be this high up in the ALTI Money List rankings right now, in the current state of the game, then the case for you to be the Hall of Fame is going to be incredible. So let me just go through some of these names. And this is sort of hard to hear, perhaps if you are nominated right now, or if you have been in the past and you haven't gotten in yet, and this is these are names that you know may or may not get in the future. But I think you can make the case for all of these guys. Adrian Matat, Isaac Haxton, Dan Smith, Alex Foxen, David Peters, Faeder Holtz, Steve O'Dwyer, Christoph Vogel saying, I mean this is where I'm still in the top twenty of the AULL Time Money List, Nick Petreangelo, Sean Winter Like, all these guys have stood in the test of time. All these guys have over forty million in career earnings. All these guys have plenty of arguments for them to be in the Hall of Fame. And none of these guys are forty yet. So it is insane to think that in the next five years all of them are turning forty and none of them have a spot locked up because of how crazy the backlog is, because you know, there's a good chance that sever is the only one to get in next year, for example, because he was closest to getting enough votes this year, and now Kuhn gets added. And I mean Kuhn even in his conversation with me, talked about how much he respected Sever. So it's very possible that next year Sever's turned. With every passing year the only one player it's in the backlog gets worse and there are going to be a lot of players who are going to miss out on being part of the Hall of Fame, even though they're very deserving. Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree. You know, I think you put it very well there. I would guess that just seeing some of this initial pushback here from some of the people out there who wanted more than one people and made the arguments for other people. In addition to kuon getting in, I think there's no pushback on Jason getting in everyone. I think like he was number one on their list, right, but it was like, these other players are deserving, so they should also be in there as well. And I'm gonna maybe just go out on a lim and say next year, we definitely get two or three, just because there might be some pressure where it's like, oh, well, remember last year, maybe we didn't get that exactly right, so let's make up for it this year. And then one thing before he played the interview, the fact that Kuon got in by himself and the fact that he's first ballot, I think made it that much more special because Kuon is up there doing the interview with Jeff Platt on the est PM broadcast, and then he gets brought over to the poker room where his Hall of Fame picture was unveiled. I was there with the other poker media and we all we all spoke to him. He was there with his with his wife Bianca, his two incredible kids. Bianca has a third on the way. Andrew Robo was there with his wife, and it was very It was very intimate because it was just him getting inducted. If you're standing there with Sean Deeven Scott, sever the atmosphere is completely different. You know, it's not just your thing, you're part of your event. It is for all these guys. So I think that you know and and perhaps deservingly so as well. Given Kuhne's stature in the game, having that moment with him and having a chance to talk to him was just really cool, and he had a lot of incredible things to say, as as Jason qun always does. Jason is from from West and West Virginia. To stand here. At the Horseshoe, you get the Hall of Fame photos behind you, you got suppour of your closest friends. And your family described this. Moment, yeah, man, I mean, honestly, I haven't talked about it today because we've kind of been in hyper speed with everybody. But to think about it, you know, I was the first person in my family to go to college. I suffered a hip injury that I thought was the worst thing that had ever happened to me, and I set in my bed with stitches in my leg and started playing online poker. And to think that that happened, and for me to find my love at such a young age because that injury happened, it's a wild story. Man, twenty years later here, I am. I really can't. I can't believe it. The steps you took in poker were not linear growth, right, Yeah, there's ups and downs, there's setbacks, there's big moments forward, that's right. What comes to mind when you hear the words that you are inducted. What are some of those big moments, both forward and backwards. You know you would think back of rather than thinking in moments. I tend to think of my mentors and the people that were with me along the way. And I've had such a great group of friends that are now my family. As you know, you know, you and ourn pals, But like, if you really you look at my group of poker friends, it's like an Avengers cast for a movie. It's insane and every. Chapter, you know, there's been there's been, like you said, ups and downs at the biggest stakes in the world. But I've just had these guys and you you just know you're solid. We can all relate with each other. You're you're pushing each other every day to be better. You know. It's like straight up, last week, I don't plan on playing for the next six months. Last week me and six of the best poker players in the world studied every day. I'm not planning again for six months. It's just like that. We're like a family. We push each other. It's the only way to be and Uh. Yeah, I'm just so blessed to have my team. I like to refer back to a moment we had backstage during WSP where you mentioned that some of these guys are just different. Yeah, you mentioned IQ, you mentioned Shitwick. Yeah, you said their brains operate on a level that's just different. It seems to me like you often forget that you are also among that crowd and you're now on this wall. So what is it that separates you from the rest of. Well, you know, that's a question I asked myself all the time, because I truly you know, oftentimes I'm sitting here like how did this happen? And I've done two things extraordinarily well in my career. The first thing is I'm ridiculously persistent, like I just never stopped, you know me, I'm so energetic, I never stop. And secondly, I've been great at finding people to push me to be better. And that those things kind of intersect, because you have to be persistent at driving people crazy enough to work with you. Like Ike's a great example. I said, hey, coach me. He said no. I said, hey, I'll pay you this an hour. He said no. I said, okay, I just sent you twenty thousand dollars to your account. You have to coach me, And he said, damn it, okay, And that's how our relationship started. Like things like that, I just would not take no for an answer, not just with relationships but with myself. You know, I would hit barriers where. I just couldn't win, and I just my life has been very binary. It's it's I have something I need to accomplish or I die. That's how I look at things. So I'm gonna do the thing. And my life's just been that way since I was seven years old. In poker, it's often dangerous to critject or forecast how things are gonna go. Yeah, but was there a moment in time where you might have thought, for the first time, I'm on track to be in the Hall of Fame. I now belong or I will belong at some point. On this wall. Well, I knew. I knew maybe nine years ago that special things were starting to happen when I was holding the lobbies on specific apps against the best players in the world, and I was the guy that was no one would play me heads up anymore, and I was the guy that was winning the most that ring and then I had the tournament runs that I had. I started to think, Wow, like this career is it's been a good one, you know. And I was thinking that maybe eight or nine years ago, and some good stuff's happened between those nine years too, and it doesn't make sense to me. I still can't believe it happened. Like I said, it was almost it's almost all been like a weird dream. But all I can say is, every single day I do something. One of the things about the Hall of Fame that makes it so special, and I know they've changed the rules a little bit this year, is that you need your peers to recognize your accomplishments and your longevity in the game and your success. When the nominees were announced, there were people running campaigns and whatnot. There's phone calls going at what has the reception been from the members that were already in about your nomination? Yeah, honestly, that's been the most overwhelming thing about this entire experience. There's been guys like Eric's Sidel, John Jowanda, Phil Ivy. I was taking a leak in the bathroom and Phil Helmuth walks up to me and he goes, you got my. Vote, kid literally teared up. I was like washing my hands, like, wow, Phil Hellmuth's just voted for me to get into the Poker Hall of Fame. Like these are overwhelming, These are idols of mine, you know, Like I came in and these guys were it. You know, even guys like Jack Binyon voted for me. Bobby Baldwin like goat, you know, like incredible sending me text, hey kid, you had my vote. I just Maury like it's it's unbelievable. So it just means so much to me that these guys actually, uh, you know, they think I'm legit, and that's you know, you call that vain call of what you want. But when your heroes kind of give you a tap and say, hey, yeah, I've voted for you, it's a big moment. A few more small ones, but I know you're not one to rest or, one to sit back. Now, Jos's crazy. So when you say you know you're not playing for six months, I know number three is on the way, yeah, but I also know you're not part of this elite club. If you will, Yeah, what does this mean. For your ongoing longevity in the game? And you're perhaps your goals and ambitions because you know what's left in a way. Yeah, so I already told these guys I'm basically technical support for the next six months. I said, I'll study with you every day. I'll help you prep for final tables. That'll keep me sharp. I'll help you guys work on PLO. If there's cash games, we can game plan together. That's kind of the idea to keep me keep the blade sharp. For me, I'm going to have a baby strapped to my chest, which I'm looking forward to so much. Third time round, you realize how fast those moments go. And even you know, since the WSB ended for me, say four weeks ago or something, I've been sprinting five days a week, powerlifting Like like you. Said, I can't rest. So I'm just gonna lose myself in things I'm passionate about my family, my health, and helping my buddies win poker, and hopefully if they go over there and take down some titles, it'll it'll feel like I did it. The final question, your kids are young, you know, third ones on the way. Yeah, but there's something about the fact that you've accomplished this while their awareness of the world around them is only slowly starting to creep in. Yeah, what is that conversation going to be like with them ultimately when they are old enough to understand. What's going on? You know. It's one of those things I've thought a lot about, and I just want them to understand. One thing that I really appreciate the poker brings to the table for them is they see me lose, and they see me lose often, and I come home and everything's okay, and I feel good about myself and I hug my kids and I say and they say, Daddy, is you want I said, no, I got. Killed a dat but I'm fine. And they're learning that, you know, even that, if that's enough from a starting point for them, that's an amazing place to begin. And to look back. I think they'll. Understand their dad worked really, really hard at something, and they might walk in here one day and say, holy shit, that's my dad on the watch. One more quick thought, and this is something that I just started thinking about while you and I were conversing about this. But what if it wasn't just a thing that's done every single year during the World Series of Poker. What if they just inducted people whenever they wanted. Yeah, like if they kind of got together as a committee and said, like, you know what, let's discuss maybe they get together let's say quarterly, and they just said, you know what, it's time for Jason to get in. Let's put him in. Here's what we're going to do the ceremony. Let's go, which goes to your point of like then you get a ceremony for one person, right then maybe it's next month. They're like, you know what, it's Sever's time. These are the reasons, like can everyone in the room vote, like if there's a certain number or whatever, then they say, okay, we're gonna do sever whenever. Maybe then you go, you go like three years when there's no one because there's no one meets the criteria for whatever reason. I don't think we're in that period now, but I'm just you know, just to make an argument, does like why does it have to be like every single year on this date, Hall of Fame voting comes up? Like I know that's how like other places do it, but like why does it have to be like that? I'll do you on better. The committee gathers once a year and can be on Zoom too. Because there's there's not enough people in all in one place. But the committee gathers once a year, and let's just say like this is in January, and they they have their arguments they can make for each player. Jason Jason Kuon can go into this meeting pitching the induction of Scott sever you know, and and you know, Brian Rask can come in there and pitch the induction of Sean Deep and then they have they have a couple of weeks to you know, think about it, and then have a second meeting in which they decide who gets in this year, the class of twenty twenty seven, and then during the WSOP, and this all stays under wraps. Then during the WSOP, depending on how many there are during the main event on day one A one induction Day one B one induction Day one, see one induction. And if there's five people that year, there's just five days in a row where a person gets inducted, and if there's only one, there's only one. But I think that way, you talk among the Hall of Fame crowd who is worthy and deserving, and the voting can be on each player individually. If Kun suggests that sever has to get in, and he as a member can do that. Then the other members have to vote yes or no on that person. And you know, if Jack Binyon wants to nominate someone, he also is free to do so. I think that could be a good way to expand this format. Yeah, I mean basically, I think what we're getting at is you're having a single ceremony for one person getting in, and then you're almost reverse engineering the whole process from there. Yeah, like you're being like, Okay, how do we celebrate this one person for their accomplishments in the game and what they did on the biggest stage. Okay, that's great, Now how do we reverse engineer all of it to get them there? And then we can do that multiple times. And maybe it is during the WSB made event. Maybe it's once a week during the summer, right, whatever it is, but it's it's everyone gets their flowers on their own special occasion. They're celebrated. Whatever. You could even do cool things like you know, when they showed the NFL, like they the Hall of Fame member goes to the guy's house and knocks on the door, like Nick Shulman just like walks up to Jason Kuhon always playing the hunter k like right about they're about to go on break, shakes his hand. There's cameras around Jason Kuhn, like what the hell is going on? Nick's like you're in buddy like that like that, like shit like that, Like let's like that would be dope anyway, too much talk tonight. It's fore should we take over the Hall of Fame? No we should not. It's it's twelve fifty two in the morning. Normally I say what time it is done? There's no one here, There is no one here. We are the last ones here. Does make me feel like like ten fifteen years ago, It does when you and I were always the last ones here. It does, or whoever we were working with at the time. Main event, Baby, we probably wouldn't be the last ones here if this thing didn't go six hours today. Oh I thought you were going to say if Marco Valerio didn't show up. That is true. Agent Marco in the Flesh showed up, had a conversation with us, doing great. And I love how Agent Marco is always Agent Marco. The way he talks, it's it's authentic. It's just who he said to me when you were off to the side for second and we were talking. He's like, not to sound like I'm interviewing you, and then he just kept asking questions like he was actually interviewing me. And I was like, no, man, it's it's okay, Like it's totally fine. I'm here for it. So there's donuts left by the way. I'm not I'm not doing it. I faded the donuts all day today and I'm still going to try and fade them. So anyway, it's about to be one am Remco and I are going to get the heck ou here. We're gonna be back on Tuesday, August fourth. We'll do the same sort of recap style pod at the end of that. I think the goal is to get down to three handed play. Now. The goal today was to get down to six handed play. They didn't exactly reach that, so we'll see what comes. I think we should have the people, uh leave a comment on the video if you're watching it on YouTube with who your top three is gonna be? Yeah, I like that. Let's go. I'm gonna I'm gonna go. I'll just kick this off. I'm gonna go. Jumalan Fang and Gagliano. God, I was gonna say the exact same three I can't say the same same thing now, So I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go Jumalan fang and I'll say Jamie Chevelle runs it back up. Got eleven big mindes to work with, buddies in there. It's gotta have some good fortune on on on day two, the final table. All right, that's gonna do it for us, for Remka Rikima. I am Donnie Peters, and we will talk to you guys next. Start rat to night on the Change Express.