WEBVTT

1
00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Hi, and welcome back to The Unseen Podcast, a podcast

2
00:00:14.000 --> 00:00:18.559
<v Speaker 1>dedicated to missing people, unresolved cases, and UK true crime.

3
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Today we're going to be exploring the disappearance of fifty

4
00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:26.920
<v Speaker 1>six year old Zigmunda Damski, a miner who lived in

5
00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:31.879
<v Speaker 1>the market town of Toddmenden in West Yorkshire. His disappearance

6
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.039
<v Speaker 1>has remained a mystery since nineteen eighty and there has

7
00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:39.679
<v Speaker 1>been a lot of speculation surrounding it. Despite the large

8
00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:42.920
<v Speaker 1>amount of publicity that Zigmund's case has got over the years,

9
00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:46.520
<v Speaker 1>there are few actual known facts about it, and I

10
00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:49.840
<v Speaker 1>would like to present Zigmund's disappearance through just the facts.

11
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:55.079
<v Speaker 1>This episode contains descriptions that some listeners may find distressing,

12
00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:01.799
<v Speaker 1>so listener discretion is advised. Of Toddmden is located in

13
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:06.200
<v Speaker 1>the Colder Valley in West Yorkshire. It's around seventeen miles

14
00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.879
<v Speaker 1>from Manchester and around nine miles from the town of Halifax.

15
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.760
<v Speaker 1>It is known for its rolling hills and countryside, as

16
00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:18.280
<v Speaker 1>well as being known today as one of the places

17
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:22.560
<v Speaker 1>that infamous serial killer Harold Shipman lived and worked, as

18
00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:25.640
<v Speaker 1>well as the filming location for the BBC crime drama

19
00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Happy Valley on June the eleventh, nineteen eighty, Trevor Parker,

20
00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.599
<v Speaker 1>a coal yard worker, was working in his father's coal

21
00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.000
<v Speaker 1>yard when he came upon a ten foot pile of coal.

22
00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:43.000
<v Speaker 1>This in itself would have been a normal discovery for him. However,

23
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.040
<v Speaker 1>it was what he found on top of the pile

24
00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:49.000
<v Speaker 1>of coal which caught his attention. There was a man

25
00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.280
<v Speaker 1>lying on top. He was wearing a three piece suit,

26
00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.560
<v Speaker 1>which in any other situation would not seem odd, but

27
00:01:56.599 --> 00:01:59.840
<v Speaker 1>the man's placement on top of the coal pile seemed unusual.

28
00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:03.400
<v Speaker 1>It looked as though he had been placed there rather

29
00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.120
<v Speaker 1>than climbed up. There were other reasons to believe this

30
00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:11.240
<v Speaker 1>as well. The man's suit had no coal dust on it,

31
00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:15.560
<v Speaker 1>implying that he didn't climb up there himself. There were

32
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.360
<v Speaker 1>other odd things about this discovery. While he was wearing

33
00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.599
<v Speaker 1>a suit, he didn't look like he'd dressed himself properly.

34
00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:26.879
<v Speaker 1>For one, he wasn't wearing a shirt, just his suit

35
00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:31.240
<v Speaker 1>jacket buttoned up. The buttons hadn't been fastened properly and

36
00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:35.520
<v Speaker 1>had ended up being fastened wonky. It looked to those

37
00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:38.680
<v Speaker 1>that saw him as though someone else had dressed him.

38
00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.680
<v Speaker 1>The thing that struck Parker and then later PC Godfrey,

39
00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.039
<v Speaker 1>who attended the scene, was the look on the man's face.

40
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.039
<v Speaker 1>It has been described as a look of terror, as

41
00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:55.360
<v Speaker 1>though something had scared him to death. PC Godfrey later stated,

42
00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.840
<v Speaker 1>those eyes were staring up at me. I was looking

43
00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:02.080
<v Speaker 1>down on him from a foot. Those eyes sent a

44
00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:06.039
<v Speaker 1>shudder down my spine. They were wide open. He had

45
00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:09.039
<v Speaker 1>a look of someone who had seen something or someone

46
00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:14.319
<v Speaker 1>that had scared him to death. This was an alarming discovery. However,

47
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.400
<v Speaker 1>upon closer inspection of the body, there were even more

48
00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:22.280
<v Speaker 1>strange discoveries. When police arrived at the scene, they were

49
00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.759
<v Speaker 1>able to see that the man had burns to his head,

50
00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.960
<v Speaker 1>neck and shoulders which appeared to have had some sort

51
00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:32.479
<v Speaker 1>of ointment applied to them. He was missing his shirt, wallet,

52
00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:36.759
<v Speaker 1>and his watch. The scene was all around very strange

53
00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:41.120
<v Speaker 1>and at first glance could not be explained. One of

54
00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the first jobs was to try and identify who this

55
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.520
<v Speaker 1>man was, given that his wallet was missing and there

56
00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:49.000
<v Speaker 1>seemed to be no explanation for why he was there.

57
00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.159
<v Speaker 1>While the identification was ongoing, the man's body was sent

58
00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.199
<v Speaker 1>for a post mortem with the coroner to try and

59
00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:01.159
<v Speaker 1>establish what had happened. The story of the man that

60
00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:03.560
<v Speaker 1>had been found on top of the coal pile began

61
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:07.599
<v Speaker 1>to spread around Todmden and the surrounding areas, and as

62
00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:10.039
<v Speaker 1>a result, it didn't take long to find out this

63
00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:15.120
<v Speaker 1>man's identity. He was fifty six year old Zigmund A Damski.

64
00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Zigmund or Ziggy as many people called him, lived on

65
00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:25.879
<v Speaker 1>Thornfield Crescent in the village of Tingley in Wakefield. Ziggi

66
00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:28.639
<v Speaker 1>lived there with his wife Lottie and worked the loft

67
00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:33.720
<v Speaker 1>House Collery as a miner. Ziggy was originally from Poland,

68
00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.800
<v Speaker 1>but had moved over to the UK, met his wife

69
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:41.439
<v Speaker 1>and settled in Tingley. The collery where Ziggy worked had

70
00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:45.120
<v Speaker 1>made headlines in nineteen seventy three when the Lofthouse Collery

71
00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:50.000
<v Speaker 1>disaster occurred. This was due to excavations being made too

72
00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.680
<v Speaker 1>close to an abandoned flooded mine shaft. Three million imperial

73
00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.439
<v Speaker 1>gallons of water flooded into the shaft, trapping seven workers

74
00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:02.759
<v Speaker 1>below the surface. All of the workers died in the incident.

75
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.759
<v Speaker 1>It would turn out that relevant records were not checked

76
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.319
<v Speaker 1>which indicated the depth of the abandoned shaft. This led

77
00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:15.040
<v Speaker 1>to new regulations being brought in and loft House. Collery

78
00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:19.720
<v Speaker 1>closed in nineteen eighty one at the time, though in

79
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:23.439
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty Ziggy worked there and by all accounts was

80
00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:28.319
<v Speaker 1>liked by his colleagues. On the sixth of June nineteen

81
00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.480
<v Speaker 1>eighty Ziggi left his home in Tingley to walk and

82
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.399
<v Speaker 1>get some groceries from the shop. This was just a

83
00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:37.920
<v Speaker 1>normal errand for him, and there was nothing to suggest

84
00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:42.680
<v Speaker 1>anything would happen on his way there. He didn't return

85
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.839
<v Speaker 1>to the house and days began to pass without anyone

86
00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:50.959
<v Speaker 1>seeing Ziggy or knowing where he went. Lotti continued to

87
00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.920
<v Speaker 1>wonder about where he had gone, and she initially believed

88
00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:56.839
<v Speaker 1>that he must have been abducted, given that it seemed

89
00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.759
<v Speaker 1>completely out of character for him to just disappear without

90
00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:04.560
<v Speaker 1>saying anything to her. When Ziggy's body was found five

91
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.759
<v Speaker 1>days later, it would seem that the mystery had somewhat

92
00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:10.560
<v Speaker 1>been solved. However, there were many questions that had not

93
00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.639
<v Speaker 1>been answered. How had he got there and where had

94
00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:18.120
<v Speaker 1>he been since he disappeared. The post Martin was able

95
00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.399
<v Speaker 1>to establish a cause of death for Zigmund. It was

96
00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:23.560
<v Speaker 1>found that he had died of heart failure due to

97
00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.519
<v Speaker 1>heart disease and emphysema. A coroner would later rule this

98
00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:32.000
<v Speaker 1>as an open verdict. However, this would not provide police

99
00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:34.839
<v Speaker 1>with much information about how Ziggy came to be on

100
00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.480
<v Speaker 1>top of the coal pile or why he was found

101
00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:42.639
<v Speaker 1>around thirty eight miles from Tingley, where he lived. Another

102
00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.319
<v Speaker 1>odd piece of information was that the coroner believed that

103
00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Ziggi had only been dead for around eight to ten

104
00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.839
<v Speaker 1>hours before he was found. This would mean that for

105
00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:56.879
<v Speaker 1>three to four days he may have been elsewhere. He

106
00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.439
<v Speaker 1>also had what looked to be around one day's worth

107
00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:03.600
<v Speaker 1>of biard, which again indicated that Ziggi had been somewhere

108
00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:07.480
<v Speaker 1>else during the time that he had disappeared. He had

109
00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:17.759
<v Speaker 1>also had his hair cut short, though it looked crudely done.

110
00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.639
<v Speaker 1>These were not the only odd things about Ziggy's body.

111
00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.839
<v Speaker 1>It were the burns that attracted a lot of attention.

112
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.439
<v Speaker 1>Not only did he have these burns, but there had

113
00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:33.160
<v Speaker 1>been some sort of ointment rubbed onto them. This ointment

114
00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.399
<v Speaker 1>was extremely unusual and when it was analyzed by forensic

115
00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.920
<v Speaker 1>scientists at the Home Office, it couldn't be identified and

116
00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.079
<v Speaker 1>nor could its origin. The fact that Ziggi had been

117
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.800
<v Speaker 1>missing for five days, however, had not been dead that

118
00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:52.920
<v Speaker 1>long was extremely odd and begged many questions. What had

119
00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.040
<v Speaker 1>happened to him and why had he ended up where

120
00:07:55.079 --> 00:08:01.079
<v Speaker 1>he was. James Turnbull, the coroner, later stated the question

121
00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.439
<v Speaker 1>of where he was before he died and what led

122
00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:08.079
<v Speaker 1>to his death just could not be answered. Police did

123
00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:10.759
<v Speaker 1>check any hospitals in the local area to see if

124
00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:13.519
<v Speaker 1>he had been admitted as a patient. However, this also

125
00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.000
<v Speaker 1>drew a blank. It didn't appear that he had been

126
00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.240
<v Speaker 1>treated by anyone in the days since his disappearance, and

127
00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.480
<v Speaker 1>inquiries into his whereabouts were also unsuccessful. The strangeness of

128
00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.639
<v Speaker 1>the situation struck everyone that heard about it. Zigmunder Damski

129
00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:34.240
<v Speaker 1>appeared to have died of natural causes on top of

130
00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:36.919
<v Speaker 1>a coal heap thirty eight miles away from his home

131
00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:42.080
<v Speaker 1>and was missing his shirt, wallet, and watch. Due to

132
00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:44.919
<v Speaker 1>the many strange aspects of the case, theories began to

133
00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:49.279
<v Speaker 1>spread around the surrounding area. Many of these theories were

134
00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.039
<v Speaker 1>complete speculation, However, they started to gain some traction in

135
00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.039
<v Speaker 1>the absence of any other explanation for what had happened.

136
00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Some of these rumors related to the fact that Zigmund

137
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.320
<v Speaker 1>was from Poland and that the KGB had possibly been

138
00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.559
<v Speaker 1>involved with his disappearance and death. Another theory was that

139
00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.960
<v Speaker 1>perhaps Ziggy knew about poor practices and mistakes happening at

140
00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the colliery, and perhaps this had been a reason for

141
00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.759
<v Speaker 1>someone to try and get rid of him. None of

142
00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:22.720
<v Speaker 1>these rumors were substantiated. The biggest rumor to take hold

143
00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.519
<v Speaker 1>about Ziggy's death came from a very unusual place, the

144
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:32.559
<v Speaker 1>paranormal community. This theory primarily took hold five months after

145
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Ziggy's death in November nineteen eighty, when PC Alan Godfrey,

146
00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.519
<v Speaker 1>who had been the first officer on the scene in June,

147
00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.159
<v Speaker 1>was driving up Burnley Road, around a mile from where

148
00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Ziggy was found. It is described as a remote road,

149
00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:49.840
<v Speaker 1>and as he was driving up it, he got a

150
00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:54.840
<v Speaker 1>cause to investigate cows loose in people's gardens. He went

151
00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.240
<v Speaker 1>to the location and said that he thought he saw

152
00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.919
<v Speaker 1>a bus parked up. When he got closer, he saw

153
00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.679
<v Speaker 1>what looked like a diamond shaped object hovering above him.

154
00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.679
<v Speaker 1>He said that to him, this looked like a UFO.

155
00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:10.960
<v Speaker 1>He said he managed to make a sketch of it,

156
00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.240
<v Speaker 1>and then went to use his car radio, which had

157
00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:17.519
<v Speaker 1>stopped working. He said he saw a brilliant white blinding

158
00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.799
<v Speaker 1>flash a bit like having your photograph taken with the

159
00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:25.360
<v Speaker 1>flash gun in your face before blacking out. He said

160
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.080
<v Speaker 1>he woke up twenty five minutes later and his car

161
00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.279
<v Speaker 1>had moved thirty yards away from where it was located before.

162
00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:35.200
<v Speaker 1>He said his car was dry despite the wet weather,

163
00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.960
<v Speaker 1>and that his boot was split open and he had

164
00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.159
<v Speaker 1>what looked to be an itchy mark on the bottom

165
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:44.159
<v Speaker 1>of his foot. He couldn't really explain what he had seen,

166
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.240
<v Speaker 1>and he later underwent hypnosis to try and establish what

167
00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.919
<v Speaker 1>had happened. During this hypnosis, he said he was in

168
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.519
<v Speaker 1>a strange room being examined by a tall humanoid figure

169
00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:59.120
<v Speaker 1>with a beard. The fact that Alan Godfrey claimed to

170
00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.080
<v Speaker 1>have been abducted by aliens was difficult to understand for

171
00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:05.039
<v Speaker 1>many people and added all the more oddness to a

172
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.519
<v Speaker 1>case that was already full of questions. For some, however,

173
00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.159
<v Speaker 1>this possible UFO sighting added credence to what they already

174
00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:17.320
<v Speaker 1>thought Ziggy's death could have been the result of an

175
00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:21.759
<v Speaker 1>alien abduction. This is what many newspapers at the time

176
00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.759
<v Speaker 1>began to run, with headlines like Todminen is out of

177
00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.919
<v Speaker 1>this world and terrifying tales given Alan Godfrey's experience and

178
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.799
<v Speaker 1>the number of other UFO sightings which had taken place

179
00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.159
<v Speaker 1>in the Todburnhen area, people could in some way believe

180
00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.840
<v Speaker 1>that this may have been what happened to zigmun Adamski

181
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Is reported at the time, however, that West Yorkshire Police

182
00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:46.799
<v Speaker 1>were less than impressed with this rumors, given that they

183
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.799
<v Speaker 1>were embroiled in the Yorkshire Ripper investigation at the time

184
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.159
<v Speaker 1>and they couldn't give any time or credence to rumors

185
00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:57.039
<v Speaker 1>that their officers were claiming to see UFOs on their shifts.

186
00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:00.840
<v Speaker 1>There has been much made over the years of the

187
00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:04.919
<v Speaker 1>connection between Ziggy's death and the paranormal. However, I believe

188
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:09.279
<v Speaker 1>this in some way detracts away from his story. Ziggy

189
00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.840
<v Speaker 1>was a man who died in mysterious circumstances, but which

190
00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:17.320
<v Speaker 1>were very real. There are many real questions as to

191
00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:20.360
<v Speaker 1>what happened to him, Where had he gone during those

192
00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.480
<v Speaker 1>five days, why had he taken his shirt off and

193
00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.519
<v Speaker 1>cut his hair, how had he got the burns on

194
00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.679
<v Speaker 1>his body? And why could the ointment not be identified?

195
00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:34.720
<v Speaker 1>This case genuinely is a mystery. However, we cannot lose

196
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:36.799
<v Speaker 1>sight of the fact that Ziggy was a real person.

197
00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:40.720
<v Speaker 1>And not just a case of possible alien abduction, which

198
00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:42.600
<v Speaker 1>is what he's been made out to be in the press.

199
00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.320
<v Speaker 1>What did happen to Zigmund Damski in nineteen eighty There

200
00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.879
<v Speaker 1>are so many confusing aspects to this case, and it's

201
00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:53.399
<v Speaker 1>sad that after all these years, we're still none the

202
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.840
<v Speaker 1>wiser as to what happened. If you know anything about

203
00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.519
<v Speaker 1>the death and disappearance of Zigmund Damski, then please contact

204
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.840
<v Speaker 1>the police on one oh one and let them know.

205
00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you'd like

206
00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.600
<v Speaker 1>to support the podcast further than you can on Patreon

207
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.919
<v Speaker 1>and contribute to exclusive polls to get extra bonus episodes

208
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.279
<v Speaker 1>every month. You can also get access to new episodes

209
00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.720
<v Speaker 1>early in ad free. You can use the link in

210
00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.240
<v Speaker 1>the show notes to visit Patreon and see what we offer.

211
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.440
<v Speaker 1>You can also support us by reviewing the podcast wherever

212
00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.360
<v Speaker 1>you listen, including Spotify, and also just share the episodes

213
00:13:30.960 --> 00:14:30.559
<v Speaker 1>as our ways. I'm Caprice and this has been unseen

214
00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:29.159
<v Speaker 1>st