WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:09.599 Welcome back everyone to the Game and Former Show, a 2 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:13.359 weekly podcast covering the video game industry. Join us every 3 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:16.320 Friday for discussion of the latest gaming news, reviews, and 4 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:20.000 exclusive reveals, alongside Game the Former staff and special guests 5 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.359 from around the industry. I'm one of your hosts today, 6 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:26.519 Alex van Aiken, and today I'm joined by Marcus Stewart Heyding. 7 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:30.359 Marcus feeling good. I feel like I've finally shaken off 8 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:35.960 the jet lag being in in La. The La ness 9 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:38.880 has washed off and has been replaced with my normal 10 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.119 Florida aura. So we're back. 11 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:43.679 Yeah, it's good to have you back in your Florida aura. 12 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:48.039 It does have a slightly different smell that that aura, 13 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:48.960 but you know. 14 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.200 It's like faint smell of key line pie. Yeah. 15 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.679 Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing, that's how Yes. We 16 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.600 are also joined by Brian Shay. Hey. 17 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:02.960 Brian, Hey, I am very freshly back from LA. I 18 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:05.159 was out there for eleven days, which is like a 19 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:09.159 full while after SGF wrapped up. So I am very 20 00:01:09.159 --> 00:01:11.159 excited to be sleeping in my own bed, very excited 21 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:12.799 to be able to catch up on all these games 22 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:15.040 that have come out recently because I only litally switched 23 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:16.640 to out there with me, so I didn't have a 24 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:19.159 whole lot of time for like personal gaming because I 25 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:21.840 was too busy playing like games that aren't out yet. 26 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:26.359 But yeah, very much excited to talk about our new 27 00:01:26.599 --> 00:01:28.480 cover story that I wrote. 28 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.560 Yes you did, and speaking of before we get into 29 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:34.680 the show proper, I do just want to show off 30 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.280 I'm pulling the that noise you're hearing, I'm pulling the 31 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:38.079 wrapper off. 32 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:39.079 This thing's fresh for me. 33 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.439 But we are going to be getting into our Halo 34 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.959 Campaign Evolved cover story a little later on. We are 35 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:53.200 We are also going to be covering first the really 36 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:58.319 unfortunate news coming out of Xbox this week, but stay 37 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:00.879 tuned for later on. We are going to be chatting 38 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.519 through everything that Brian wrote in this cover story, a 39 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.439 retrospective that he also did. But yeah, I do want 40 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:11.319 to say if you want to support us, the best 41 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:15.400 way is to pick up a subscription to Game Informer magazine. 42 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.039 You can go to Gaminformer dot com slash subscribe and 43 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.120 get yours ten issues a year delivered to your door. 44 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:26.680 You can also find us on newsstands around the world, 45 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:33.719 you know, literally Japan, Canada, Europe. We're in a lot 46 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:36.280 of places. So if you see us at your local newstand, 47 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.479 please let us know. Send us an email podcast at 48 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:42.759 gaminformer dot com letting us know where you picked up 49 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.919 your copy of Game Informer magazine. 50 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:48.800 Posted on socials like share, Yes you found us, because 51 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.159 we actually to corroborate that this is a worldwide thing. 52 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.360 Like the only way to get print magazines of Game 53 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.879 Informer that are not within the United States are these 54 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.560 news stands. So Eric Van Allen and I were out 55 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:08.479 in Warsaw for the Blood of Dawn Walker cover story, 56 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:11.120 which is the one that came before Halo campaign evolved, 57 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.360 and we made it a point to look in all 58 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.479 these different bookstores to see if we could figure out 59 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:17.840 where Game Informer was being sold. We found it in 60 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:22.319 multiple bookstores within the Stockholm airport or no, it's the 61 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:26.639 Amsterdam airport. I'm sorry, So Amsterdam you can find it 62 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.360 in the airport at several of their bookstores on the 63 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:32.479 magazine wreck So keep your eyes out. 64 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:32.919 That's cool. 65 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:34.159 You never know where it'll pop up. 66 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.439 Yeah, totally. Well, yeah, and I just want to say 67 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:41.319 thank you. We were always talking about please go pick 68 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.560 up the magazine. I mean, it is important to us 69 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.240 and is truly helpful. I do just want to say 70 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:49.439 thank you. If you are a longtime supporter of Game Informer, 71 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:52.680 you've been reading and subscribing for years or even months. Ay, 72 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:54.919 if this is your first issue you're about to get. 73 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:57.719 Thank you for being here, being part of our community 74 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:00.400 and helping us keep the lights on. And thank you 75 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:03.520 especially to the folks listening to this podcast. You are 76 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.120 like our core core audience, and you know the fact 77 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:08.879 that you show up every week, listen to our stuff, 78 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.599 read our magazine work, it really means a lot. 79 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:12.280 So thank you. 80 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.360 Like I said at the top, we are going to 81 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:19.279 be getting into some unfortunate Xbox news to start our 82 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:23.519 show off with. So a lot of a lot of 83 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:28.040 news broke earlier this week that Xbox is reportedly eyeing 84 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:34.439 several studios to close. Ninja Theory is among those Compulsion 85 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:37.279 Games double findals on the list. You know, several of 86 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:41.399 those studios also reportedly are trying to figure out if 87 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.879 they can, you know, negotiate to spin off or find 88 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:47.759 a new parent company. You know, I think it kind 89 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:49.639 of depends on each of those studios. They're all kind 90 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.879 of having their own conversations with Xbox still to be 91 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:57.240 determined if if Xbox will play ball with that, But 92 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.160 they've talked about Asha. I think, you know, I'm not 93 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:02.959 sure if it's been publicly said. I'm going to actually 94 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:05.480 toss it to Marcus here in just a second, who's 95 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.399 more familiar on like the details of everything. But it 96 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.079 seems like there's like some sort of like Xbox reset 97 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.480 happening behind the scenes. I'm not sure if that was 98 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:16.560 a public statement or if that was a quote from 99 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:22.040 an anonymous source from Bloomberg or game File. Both of 100 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:25.720 those are are sources in our news stories. They've been 101 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:28.800 breaking a lot of the news. But Marcus, I do 102 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.120 want to send it over you to kind of give 103 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.639 us a rundown. I know you have sort of a timeline, 104 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.120 a rough timeline of like when everything started happening, what's 105 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.439 been kind of coming out? 106 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.920 Can you can you fill us in? 107 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:46.120 Yeah? I get this really all started last week. It 108 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.519 was on June eleventh that the message that you alluded 109 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.120 to from Asha Sharma, and and also Matt Booty, who's 110 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:56.279 kind of the what is he to see the. 111 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:59.600 Chief Creative Officer c C C. 112 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.560 So I don't like that acronym, the Chief Creative officer 113 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.040 of Xbox. They both kind of wrote a joint email 114 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:12.240 to the Xbox division that was then publicly published as 115 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.759 an Xbox blog post, where they laid out plans for 116 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:21.720 an Xbox reset that was meant to address sort of 117 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:24.519 the what they kind of considered like the years of 118 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.040 just like I guess, mismanagement or just like mistakes that 119 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:32.800 the previous regime led by Phil Spencer sort of set 120 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.480 them on. And they just detailed like a few steps saying, hey, 121 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:39.560 just you know, we've been losing you know, our revenue 122 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.720 has been declining the last few years. That needs to stop. 123 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:45.720 The thing that kind of stuck out the most in 124 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:49.120 regards to what is currently happening at the time of 125 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:54.560 recording was them mentioning, Hey, you know that acquisition spree 126 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.000 that we went on the last few years, that's actually 127 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.759 over extended us, and and yeah, that's kind of one 128 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.360 of the reasons we're in the position that we're in. 129 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.360 They did not say straight up like and that's why 130 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:09.279 we have to close a bunch of studios, but it 131 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:11.879 did make people go uh oh, like the fact that 132 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.720 they kind of yeah, dedicated that to its own bullet 133 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:18.759 point probably doesn't bode well, and there's also been I 134 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.879 don't believe they also state of this in the email, 135 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.040 but this is something that did come out from reporting, 136 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.639 was that there's like heavy implication of that they're planning 137 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:30.680 another giant wave of layoffs kind of across the board 138 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.839 for the Xbox division. That is not it's worth noting 139 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:36.920 at the time we're recording, a lot of this stuff 140 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:41.560 beyond the public letter has not been officially confirmed by 141 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.360 Xbox or any of the affected studios, Like right now 142 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.639 as we're recording, a lot of it is like they've 143 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.959 kind of kept quiet about it, which makes sense because 144 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:54.279 if it's if everything is to be believed, they are 145 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:56.680 actively negotiating what they're going to do, so they probably 146 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:59.639 wouldn't go out and say like, yeah, yeah, we are 147 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:03.240 in trouble. Help. But anyway, So that went out last 148 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:10.199 week on Monday, which was what June fifteenth, fifteenth, Yeah, 149 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:14.519 it was so. Initially it started with Kataku writing a 150 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.800 report that Compulsion Game specifically who is the developer of 151 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.639 South of Midnight as well as A We Happy Few 152 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:25.720 and Contrasts, that they were specifically in danger of being 153 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:31.000 shut down and that they were allegedly negotiating some sort 154 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.360 of like, you know, can you just spin us off 155 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:38.080 or can we find another buyer? And that also that 156 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.519 the employees had been given permission to start looking for 157 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.120 new jobs. Like there were a couple of social posts 158 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.919 from to writers on South of Midnight that they just said, hey, 159 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:51.919 I'm looking for Newark. One of them was the senior 160 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.200 writer who had won like a BATHHDA and a Peabody 161 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:59.080 Award for writing on South of Midnight. Yep, so you know, 162 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.240 again Compulsion is still yet to say anything, but it 163 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:05.639 was it was very much like, well, something's up because 164 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.200 why you know, I don't know that it was. 165 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.759 That was good reporting by Rebecca Valentine and Ethan gatch 166 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:13.399 Over at at the Taku. 167 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:15.399 Yeah, yes, getting that scoop. 168 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:19.000 And then like you saw, I don't mean to disrupt 169 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.559 your timeline. But on top of the you know, we'll 170 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:26.919 get to double fine shortly. But like they also made 171 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.720 like a cryptic, you know, message with an emoji that 172 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:33.720 was like the sweating like cry laughing sweating emoji like 173 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:34.960 uh oh. 174 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:36.919 It's almost like nervous nervous laughter. 175 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:41.519 Yeah, nervous emoji. But yeah, back to your timeline, Marcus. 176 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.480 Yeah, So that after the Kentucky report came out. It 177 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:49.159 was Bloomberg that then published a story saying, hey, uh, 178 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:53.440 it's not just Compulsion, it's actually several Xbox studios and 179 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:59.039 a specifically named Double Fine and Ninja Theory as being 180 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:02.759 on the chopping block. And then that's when maybe a 181 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:04.559 few hours after that at a Double find since that 182 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:08.240 cryptic tweak, they're probably the only studio that has acknowledged 183 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.360 this in any way. And even then, you know, it's 184 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.120 it's a very cryptic acknowledgment. But like Ninja Theory and 185 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.720 Compulsion at the time that were recording, I've not seen 186 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.039 any like public acknowledgment of what's happening. I've reached out 187 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.080 to Compulsion back when the Kataka report was the only 188 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.120 thing going around, just to kind of check in and 189 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.320 say asking for common They have not gotten back to 190 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:34.559 me yet. And also I wonder because Bloomberg's report was 191 00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:39.320 written by Jason Schreyer, I think one thing that's gotten 192 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:42.320 loss is that because those three studios have been named, 193 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.720 it does say other studios, It's just those are the 194 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:45.720 three that we know about. 195 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.559 Yeah, I think I saw somebody ask Jason Schreier, are 196 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:51.759 there do you know of what the other studios are. 197 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:55.600 And I think it was Shreier who responded, like, I've 198 00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:57.720 heard names, but I haven't been able to corroborate them, 199 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:59.759 so it would be irresponsible to like share them and 200 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.840 like potentially create panic, given like the subject matter of it, 201 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.039 but also that you know that's responsible journalism. 202 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.240 Yeah, yeah, But I mean, if you look at the 203 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.159 if you've kept up with xboxes kind of insane roster 204 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.000 of studios, like there's you know, I don't know if 205 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:17.720 I want to even speculate on who it could be, 206 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:19.759 but there's a few other studios in there where I 207 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:21.879 would be like, wuld shock me if they were on 208 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:22.799 that list, just. 209 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:27.080 Well, look at the thing that feels even grosser than 210 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:29.840 the stuff that we've already covered is that their other report. 211 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:31.759 I forget who it was. It was either Steven Tatilo 212 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.000 with Game File or Jason Tryer with Bloomberg. Maybe it 213 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.519 was Rebecca at Kotaku. I don't know, but somebody had 214 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:41.879 pointed out that with Ninja Theory specifically because you may 215 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.039 recall if you watch the Xbox showcase, they revealed a 216 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.120 new Senua game and people were very stoked on that, 217 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:54.000 and the report came out that it was basically forced 218 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.799 to reveal that because they wanted to get that out 219 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:02.159 there for potential act quisition, Like they wanted to strum up, 220 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:05.519 like drum up some some buzz within the industry in 221 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:10.440 hopes that's that would increase the interest from potential buyers, 222 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.279 which you know, this was at, by the way, the 223 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.519 Xbox fan Fest that I was in attendance for. So 224 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.360 it feels gross to leverage the Xbox fan Fest to 225 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.600 to you know, try and be like, oh, well, somebody 226 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.600 buy this studio that we just announced a new game 227 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.120 for so we don't have to shut it down. I 228 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.159 don't know, just just all of this doesn't sit right 229 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.080 with me, especially since I also had a conversation with 230 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:37.159 Matt Booty that Sunday, So like about a week and 231 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.279 a half ago, I had a conversation with him and 232 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:43.120 I pressed him on things like the closure of the initiative, 233 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.840 which you know, they were working on a perfect Dark reboot, 234 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:49.279 and pressed him on like, you know, what are kind 235 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.080 of the pros and cons that you've seen from this 236 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:54.600 acquisition spree, and he just pivoted to kind of like, oh, well, 237 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.360 you know, I look at all the ip that we 238 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.440 own and like that is just amazing, how many you know, 239 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:03.120 how many I have sold X million number of units? 240 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:05.240 But he never got around to what the cons of 241 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.360 that were, and even when I mentioned like layoffs, like 242 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.960 it was just kind of like this evasive response. And 243 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.639 then literally less than a week later, I think it 244 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.600 was like three days later is when all this news 245 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:17.600 started breaking and you know that letter that he and 246 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:22.559 Asha had co sent out to everyone, it was it 247 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.039 was just like, man like, it was just it just 248 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.440 felt kind of you know, I know, he couldn't go 249 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:30.240 into it that much, but like when I asked specifically 250 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:32.399 about that type of stuff and like the over extension, 251 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:36.360 it just it felt kind of like, you know, disingenuous 252 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:38.840 executive speak in a lot of ways. And it turns 253 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:39.320 out it was. 254 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.960 Yeah, and and to credit the report that you mentioned, 255 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.720 that was actually a Steven Ttello Okay writing for a 256 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.879 game file is a new letter about the the Sonua 257 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:54.360 story specifically, which again we have not you know, that 258 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.320 was per an anonymous source that to Tello had, so 259 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:00.279 we again we don't know for sure, but thats been 260 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:04.679 making the rounds. Yeah, I mean it it's it's it's 261 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.600 wild right, And it's kind of what I think a 262 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:11.159 lot of us kind of had, or we're afraid of, 263 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:12.639 kind of in the back of our mind when they 264 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:15.440 first started buying up these studios left and right. Like 265 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.799 I feel like Vinnie Caravello over at Next Lander, I 266 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.480 feel like he always had a He articulated the worry 267 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:25.840 the most whenever this came up in conversation, where you 268 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.759 always talked about how he was just so afraid of, 269 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:31.919 like when we have so much under one umbrella, like 270 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:35.960 so many studios under one umbrella, Like if something happens 271 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.679 with the ship, all of those passengers go down with it, 272 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:42.480 and it's just like it gets scarier with the more 273 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:44.960 studios that they buy, because that's like another like again, 274 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.399 if they hit an iceberg and they have to bail out, 275 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.519 it's gonna be those studios. So it's it's like always 276 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.799 made him like uncomfortable every time he bought another studio, 277 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:55.200 And I've always kind of had that fear too, So 278 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.879 to kind of see it being realized, on one hand, 279 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:02.600 it's not entirely surprising, but it's still just like, oh geez, 280 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:05.679 And it's like the studios that would probably be the 281 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:09.399 most in danger are the ones that are more the 282 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.720 prestige studios and not like like like Double Finds probably 283 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.720 like the prime example of like you buy Double find 284 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:18.519 for the prestige of their games. You do not buy 285 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:20.759 them because you expect them to ship a game that's 286 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:24.200 gonna sell one hundred million copies. Because that's just never 287 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.480 been That's just not the kind of stuff that they make, right, 288 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:31.720 And to suddenly expect that out of them is insane, 289 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.799 Like why would you be surprised if their games are like, oh, 290 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:38.360 they're great for reviews, but they're terrible for your your 291 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:44.080 balance sheet generally. So it's it's. 292 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.519 It's I think the hope that they had was like, Okay, 293 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:51.000 well we have you know, Treyarch that can make Call 294 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:54.399 of Duty, and we have Halo studios that presumably will 295 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.759 sell very well when they put out the next Halo game. 296 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:58.120 And we have Bethesda. 297 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.200 Yeah, Bethesda, that's you know, whatever the Elder Scroll six 298 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.360 comes out, it's gonna sell a bajillion copies presumably. And 299 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.480 the hope I think that they probably had was like, 300 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:09.039 that'll balance out these kind of like more prolific but 301 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.200 not as profitable, like kind of art house studios that 302 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:15.000 put out these smaller games. They don't take like, you know, 303 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.600 fifteen years to make their next title. They're able to 304 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.559 put out these games like in some cases multiple games 305 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.120 a year, like Obsidian right where it's like you just 306 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.559 get several games a year from some of these studios. 307 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.120 They're not like selling like gangbusters in most cases. But 308 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:32.919 like the hope is that when these giant tent pole 309 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.320 franchises like the Halos, like the Gears, like the Elder 310 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.200 Scrolls and the Fallouts and the Call of Duties, when 311 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.879 those come out, they kind of you know, the the 312 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.600 Rising Tide lifts all ships, right, that's the hope. But 313 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.120 they just haven't gotten a lot of those those kind 314 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.320 of major tent pole releases like Elder Scroll six has 315 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.360 been in development forever, and the same thing for like, 316 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.519 you know, the Halo franchise. We got Infinite It didn't 317 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.240 do as well as I think Xbox hoped, but like 318 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.039 we're getting a new Halo game, but it's just like 319 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.119 a you know, it's a remake. It's it's not necessarily 320 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:09.359 the next like like major innovation in the franchise. As 321 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:10.960 positive as we are on it, we are going to 322 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.319 talk about that later on in the show. But like 323 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.400 they a lot of their major franchises have been absent, 324 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.039 aside from something like Call of Duty, which continues to 325 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.119 turn out the annualized entries. And I would say that, 326 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.640 you know, Call of Duty, as popular as it still is, 327 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:30.200 doesn't have kind of the excitement and the fervor surrounding 328 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.559 it that it once did back when, like you know, 329 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.119 the original modern warfare games were coming out, where it 330 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:37.240 was like, okay, Call of Duty. Modern Warfare is like 331 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.440 the pinnacle of gaming back then. Now it's just like, 332 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:41.799 oh yeah, there's another Call of Duty. Obviously, there's like 333 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.920 a very dedicated player base to that franchise, and they 334 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.799 love jumping on for war Zone or comp multiplayer and 335 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.839 all that stuff. But all of these these confluence of 336 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:55.160 events where you know, some games, some franchises just have 337 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.319 been absent for over a decade at this point. I mean, 338 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:00.759 it's been how long since we've got I mean, Skyrim 339 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:02.480 came out in twenty eleven and we've just kind of 340 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.960 been living off of ports of that game for an 341 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.000 Elder Scrolls Online for you know, twenty or fifteen years now, 342 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:12.440 and then you know, Fallout. We've just had seventy six 343 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:17.079 and then remasters of Fallout four, but like, I mean, 344 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.200 they haven't had those tent pole franchises to fully booy 345 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.920 those more kind of like art house slash, independent facing 346 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.640 studios that just don't make the money that they the 347 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:28.279 other ones do. 348 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.000 Yeah, I feel like Ninja theory, Like Ninja Theory is 349 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.599 probably the one I'm the most sort of like, Yeah, 350 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.640 I guess it makes sense because to your point about 351 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.200 them taking forever to put out even the games that 352 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.160 are guaranteed to make money, they took forever to put 353 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.519 out that help late sequel like that was in development 354 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:49.839 for years and years and years, like that was an 355 00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:52.759 wasn't it announced before the Xbox series X or it 356 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:54.400 was like at the announcement. 357 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:55.160 For it was alongside it. 358 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.160 Yeah, and then it only came out what like two 359 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.000 years ago, and that just felt like, looking back, that 360 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:04.440 was probably a lot of time and money for something 361 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.400 that I don't know how well that game sold, but 362 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.160 I I would wager to guess it didn't like make 363 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.599 Call of Duty money or anything like that. So it's like, oh, 364 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.839 we gave them this long leash to make their artsy 365 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.200 game that you know, Wow, Like was it worth how 366 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:24.079 much time? That we kind of allowed them to have, 367 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.359 and do we want to do that again? I mean, 368 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.960 Sunwa's coming out next year. I mean, you know, on paper, 369 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:34.799 we'll see what happens. But yeah, I just it just 370 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:40.599 seems like ever since they bought Act Division specifically, that's 371 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.039 when because how much money was that It was like 372 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.839 the largest acquisition, like not even in video games. Wasn't 373 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:47.200 it like ever it. 374 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:49.440 Was dollar right? 375 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:51.240 Yeah it was Yeah. 376 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.160 Was it like was it like eighty billion or something? 377 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.240 Seventy five point four billion dollars? 378 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.759 Yeah? Yeah, Like they spent all all that money buying Activision, 379 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.240 And I think that like that felt like the moment 380 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:08.559 where like the eye of like broader Microsoft turned its 381 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.200 gaze towards the Xbox and was like, whoa, what do 382 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:13.599 we what are we spending? How much are we spending 383 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:16.839 on this? And maybe began to scrutinize them more than 384 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.599 they had before because that is a lot of money 385 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.680 and like, well, how are we going to make that? 386 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.680 How are we going to justify that investment? And then 387 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.960 it what have they gotten out of it so far? 388 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.279 I mean you know it's like did they and we 389 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:32.880 were saying that at the time, like do they need 390 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:35.319 Activision Like that seems like a bit much to me. 391 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.200 That felt like the moment where they felt like they 392 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.599 had actually overextended themselves. 393 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.599 Right, oh, like definitely, and then put out that whole 394 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.039 like trailer where it was like announcing it and it 395 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.400 had like the war of Warcraft orcs coming out and 396 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.480 being like home and then family, and then like immediately 397 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.359 proceeded to lay off a bunch of them, Like I 398 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:55.880 think it was like less than a year later, they 399 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.200 had sweeping layoffs of like several people at Activision and Blizzard. 400 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.200 It was like this was a year ago. They're you know, 401 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.400