Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your host Samantha
Speaker 1: Fay and I'm Deb Bowen, and today we are going
Speaker 1: to discuss books in the Bible that never made it in.
Speaker 1: Now you might be thinking to yourself, Samantha and Deb,
Speaker 1: what the heck does this have to do with our show. Well,
Speaker 1: most of the books that got kicked out were because
Speaker 1: of psychic, magical, or divine feminine elements. Basically, a group
Speaker 1: of men got together over several decades and really centuries,
Speaker 1: refining what we now recognize as the Bible. This process
Speaker 1: was called canonization, and it wasn't until the fourth century
Speaker 1: that the books in the Bible were fully locked in.
Speaker 1: And I am sure you could imagine and how heated
Speaker 1: many of these debates became. The arguments were over lots
Speaker 1: of things, disparities in the Greek and Hebrew translations. Some
Speaker 1: just didn't like the men who wrote the books. Others
Speaker 1: argued about the teachings and the books. What we recognize
Speaker 1: as the Bible today has changed many times. The books
Speaker 1: that were left out are called apocrypha, which means hidden
Speaker 1: and get this, there are more apocryphal books than there
Speaker 1: are books in the Bible.
Speaker 2: That does not surprise me. I know I didn't know that,
Speaker 2: but that really does not surprise me. The selection process
Speaker 2: that you said was called canonization was really fraught with
Speaker 2: lots of conflicting concepts and what was not considered safe
Speaker 2: or proper in terms of protecting the powers it be.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what it came down to. Now, the first
Speaker 1: apocryphal book we're going to discuss is the Book of
Speaker 1: Eno and I have read this one many many times.
Speaker 1: Have you read it?
Speaker 2: I have skimmed through it, and we've done some episodes
Speaker 2: on the Book of Enoch Ovindre. Yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have definitely mentioned this book several times because
Speaker 1: it is fascinating. But we're not going to get into
Speaker 1: all the ditty gritty. We're just going to tell you
Speaker 1: pretty much an overview of what it says and why
Speaker 1: it was kicked out. Enoch lived hundreds of years before
Speaker 1: the flood, and he was a real man. You can
Speaker 1: read about him in the Bible. He's the one who
Speaker 1: didn't die. God just simply took him up to heaven
Speaker 1: and placed Enoch beside him. It said that Enoch's job
Speaker 1: is to reveal information to humanity. Many believe he's the
Speaker 1: one who became the angel Metatron. The Book of Enoch
Speaker 1: tells us not only his story, but also teaches us
Speaker 1: about the fallen Angels. It's believed to have been written
Speaker 1: between three hundred BC and one hundred ADY. It was
Speaker 1: removed from the Bible shortly before the third century, and
Speaker 1: it predicts all sorts of wars and the Second Coming.
Speaker 1: Most famously, it tells the story of the Watchers, who
Speaker 1: are described as two hundred angels who were sent to
Speaker 1: Earth to watch over us now. In this book, Enoch
Speaker 1: describes lots of really cool things, like the movement of
Speaker 1: the sun, the moon, and stars through a series of portals.
Speaker 1: It also introduces a three hundred and sixty four day calendar,
Speaker 1: which was very different from the lunar calendars being followed
Speaker 1: at that time. The book also talks about how Enoch
Speaker 1: was taken on a tour of heaven and Hell, guided
Speaker 1: by two angels who many believe were Uriel and Michael.
Speaker 1: Enoch says he saw a burning valley where the fallen
Speaker 1: Angels were imprisoned, and the Tree of life in heaven. Now,
Speaker 1: this next section talks about who we are in terms
Speaker 1: of animal symbolism and I'd love for you to tell
Speaker 1: people about that, because with your big background in first
Speaker 1: people's history, I think you can add something to it.
Speaker 2: Well. One section uses symbolism to tell the history of
Speaker 2: the world, where we're depicted, Samantha says, as animals either
Speaker 2: bulls or sheep, and the wicked people are symbolized as lions, wolves,
Speaker 2: or birds of prey. And there's a final battle between
Speaker 2: the good and evil animals that ends in the arrival
Speaker 2: of the great White Bull. So that's one version of
Speaker 2: how we might look at the Biblical perspective on animal people. However,
Speaker 2: there are others. For example, in the Book of Revelation,
Speaker 2: the animals are depicted in different ways, the four horsemen
Speaker 2: of the Apocalypse and the Lion of Judah, which is
Speaker 2: a very positive perspective on the lion as opposed to
Speaker 2: what we just said, and the eagles. So if you
Speaker 2: look at for example, to Row and you look at
Speaker 2: the wheel of fortune Key and the world the world
Speaker 2: thank you my Marcus quick play Worldkik and Fortune Key,
Speaker 2: you see those four beings, angelic beings, animal beings in
Speaker 2: the corners representing the cardinal directions of the zodiac. For example,
Speaker 2: the cardinal points of the zodiac and the Revelation point
Speaker 2: that I was just talking about. So it's not always consistent,
Speaker 2: I guess, is my point. It's depending on whether you're
Speaker 2: reading Enoch or whether you're reading Revelation or some other books.
Speaker 2: In the Bible, you see animal people portrayed in various
Speaker 2: different ways.
Speaker 1: But don't the Lakota have a tradition of a great
Speaker 1: white bull coming to save them?
Speaker 2: Yes? No, sort of. In the Lakota tradition, there is
Speaker 2: a legend of a woman whose name was white Buffalo
Speaker 2: calf woman. It's a buffalo, not a bull. And here's
Speaker 2: the story in a nutshell. There was a time where
Speaker 2: the people had strayed from their connection to spirit, and
Speaker 2: so Creator Spirit sent a woman and her name was
Speaker 2: White Buffalo calf woman, to bring the people back to spirit.
Speaker 2: And she was to bring to the people the sacred pipe,
Speaker 2: which is a way of connecting with prayer to the
Speaker 2: spiritual realm. And as she was approaching the tribe, two
Speaker 2: men approached her to see who she was and what
Speaker 2: she was coming across the plain. She was absolutely beautiful,
Speaker 2: of course, wearing these white garments, and the other one said, no,
Speaker 2: we're going to do something else to you. And about
Speaker 2: the time he started to attack her, the winds whipped
Speaker 2: and the world changed and you couldn't see anything, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, his bones were on the ground,
Speaker 2: and she was still walking towards the people and presented
Speaker 2: the pipe to them. And so in honor of her
Speaker 2: gift to them, there has always been the legend that
Speaker 2: white Buffalo calf woman would in some way return to
Speaker 2: the people as a white buffalo. And when a baby
Speaker 2: buffalo and albido, for example, a white buffalo camp is bowling,
Speaker 2: there is this concept of oh, is a new era coming?
Speaker 2: Is that a harbinger of good things to come?
Speaker 1: So I'd love to see the crossover between different beliefs.
Speaker 2: I do too.
Speaker 1: Okay, so back to the Watchers. They really enjoyed their
Speaker 1: time on Earth, and they liked hanging out with the humans.
Speaker 1: And God got really mad because they taught us all
Speaker 1: sorts of things like how to make weapons, how to
Speaker 1: work with herbs and roots, how to perform magic, astrology,
Speaker 1: even how to make cosmetics.
Speaker 2: The Watchers taught us that.
Speaker 1: Yes they did yep. They knew that this had angered God,
Speaker 1: so they asked Enoch to pray for them, so Enoch
Speaker 1: sends a heavenly scribe to bring this petition to God,
Speaker 1: but their apology is not granted. Now I just find
Speaker 1: this so interesting because we see this repeated in several myths.
Speaker 1: Think about Prometheus, who taught humans about fire and metallurgy
Speaker 1: and cooking and forging weapons. Zeus got so mad that
Speaker 1: he punished Prometheus for eternity. According to this myth, right
Speaker 1: now as we speak, Prometheus is chained to a rock
Speaker 1: and the Caucaus Mountains, where an eagle tears his liver
Speaker 1: out and eats it every day, only for it to
Speaker 1: regrow so the torture can be repeated the next day.
Speaker 1: And even before this myth, we have the Sumerians, which
Speaker 1: talk about the brothers Enlil and Enki coming to Earth.
Speaker 1: And Eenki really liked the humans and he taught us
Speaker 1: about farming, creating laws, using irrigation systems, and working with herbs,
Speaker 1: and his brother Enlol got so mad he destroyed the
Speaker 1: world with a flood. Enki warned one of his favorite
Speaker 1: humans and told him to build a boat. Several centuries
Speaker 1: before Noah, the Aztec myths talk about the feathered serpent
Speaker 1: who taught humans high of farm, work with crystals, weave
Speaker 1: and make clothes, and how to follow the stars. He
Speaker 1: was ostracized from the other gods for eternity. I think
Speaker 1: about that a lot. Deb how every time some higher
Speaker 1: being tries to teach us something, the other beings get
Speaker 1: super mad and punish them.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that is again it's a cross cultural thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So back to the watchers. Not only did
Speaker 1: they teach us how to grow food and wear eyeshadow,
Speaker 1: they also lusted after woman and soon mate it, producing
Speaker 1: a new hybrid species called the Nephilim. The word nephilim
Speaker 1: means fallen, and these were described as monstrous giants. The
Speaker 1: Book of Enoch says there were so many Nephelim all
Speaker 1: over that God had to destroy Earth with the Great
Speaker 1: Flood to get rid of them and their bloodlines. So
Speaker 1: the Book of Enoch was most likely when move from
Speaker 1: the Bible because it presents this idea that the rebellious
Speaker 1: fallen angels or Watchers had power that could equal gods.
Speaker 2: And that they did things for people that quote God
Speaker 2: may not have wanted them to do.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, So this book and all the ones that
Speaker 1: were going to discuss today really existed. The Book of
Speaker 1: Enoch is referenced in the Bible, specifically in the Book
Speaker 1: of Jude. It was lost for centuries until it was
Speaker 1: discovered in Ethiopia, and then fragments of the text were
Speaker 1: also found among the Dead Sea scrolls. So let's take
Speaker 1: our first quick break, and then we're going to discuss
Speaker 1: some more of these books from the Gnostic Gospels that
Speaker 1: were kicked out and mostly destroyed until they were discovered
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five. Will be right back.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to all of you who attended
Speaker 2: our information session. Sarah and I had a wonderful time,
Speaker 2: and we hope you'll join us for the first course
Speaker 2: in our Sacred Summer series. It's entitled Acred Connections Discovering
Speaker 2: Magic in the Ordinary. Registration opens on April twenty fifth,
Speaker 2: and you'll find the link on my website deboen dot
Speaker 2: com under Interactive Courses. And as always, there is an
Speaker 2: afternoon and an evening section, and each section is limited
Speaker 2: to thirty participants and registration closes on May ninth, So
Speaker 2: sign up today and become a part of our growing
Speaker 2: exploration of community. We so hope you'll join us.
Speaker 1: Welcome back. Do you want to tell us about the
Speaker 1: Gospel of Thomas, Oh.
Speaker 2: I certainly do. It was one of the most intriguing
Speaker 2: books from the Nastic Gospels. The Gospel of Thomas is
Speaker 2: basically a collection of sayings or teachings from Jesus. The
Speaker 2: Gospel of Thomas depicts what Jesus taught in private, while
Speaker 2: the Gospel of Matthew depicts what Jesus taught publicly in
Speaker 2: Galilee and judas he moved the country. The Gospel of
Speaker 2: Thomas reads like Jesus was influenced by Buddhism or his
Speaker 2: missing years really spent traveling through India. That's a big
Speaker 2: question that will ever answer, but there's a lots of
Speaker 2: speculation about it. So in the New Testament, Jesus is
Speaker 2: depicted as the son of God. He's divined, conceived, born,
Speaker 2: and lived without sin. But in the Gospel of Thomas,
Speaker 2: we see a Jesus who's just like us, who's telling
Speaker 2: us that we're divine too. He repeatedly says that the
Speaker 2: Kingdom of God is not a place that it is
Speaker 2: within us. He says it is within you and outside you. Basically,
Speaker 2: he's saying it's a state of mind that most people
Speaker 2: fail to attain. So the book opens with these lines.
Speaker 2: Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experienced death.
Speaker 2: So this is also a main reason why it was
Speaker 2: kicked out. It's saying that salvation doesn't come from Jesus's
Speaker 2: sacrifice and resurrection, but from correctly understanding his teachings. Jesus
Speaker 2: also dismisses church leaders and rituals, saying that outward rituals
Speaker 2: can be harmful if done performatively. Jesus says, split a
Speaker 2: piece of wood, I am there, Lift up the stone,
Speaker 2: and you will find me, meaning he is everywhere, and
Speaker 2: we don't have to go to a church, temple, or
Speaker 2: holy place to find him. The energy of what Jesus
Speaker 2: taught and believed was a collaborative divinity among us all,
Speaker 2: and that there was never a need for us to
Speaker 2: be in a particular place, that that spirit divinity was
Speaker 2: always both within us and around us. Jesus in that
Speaker 2: gospel doesn't talk about end times are the second coming.
Speaker 2: When his disciples ask him when the kingdom would come,
Speaker 2: Jesus said, it will not come by waiting for it. Rather,
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of the Father is spread out on the
Speaker 2: earth and men do not see it, So not a when,
Speaker 2: but a where. He talked a lot about how we
Speaker 2: get caught up in the fakeness of what surround us materialism, tradition, expectation.
Speaker 2: He says, the whole world is intoxicated, but no one
Speaker 2: is thirsty.
Speaker 1: I love that line.
Speaker 2: I do too, Samantha.
Speaker 1: It invites me of what did Auntie Meme say the
Speaker 1: whole world is a buffet and everyone's starving.
Speaker 2: The actual line is life's a banquet and most sons
Speaker 2: of bitches are starving to death. You go, That's the line.
Speaker 2: The main premise of the book is my all time
Speaker 2: favorite quote. If you bring forth what is within you,
Speaker 2: what you bring forth will save you. We should have
Speaker 2: that again. If you bring forth what is within you,
Speaker 2: what you bring forth will save you. If you do
Speaker 2: not bring forth what is within you, what you do
Speaker 2: not bring forth will destroy you.
Speaker 1: Wooh, that's exactly what Carl Jung said.
Speaker 2: Absolutely it is. That's probably not the most famous line
Speaker 2: in the book, but I certainly I do love that one.
Speaker 2: Probably the most famous teaching from the book is again
Speaker 2: short and very profound. Jesus repeatedly urged people not to
Speaker 2: get caught up in fighting, wars and politics. To be
Speaker 2: of the world, but not in it. Be a passerby.
Speaker 2: Focus on your own truth, your own light, your own
Speaker 2: kingdom within, be a passer by. Whoo Oh. It is
Speaker 2: very and it's also just incredibly profound in its simplicity.
Speaker 2: And I do know that of what's called the Los's Gospels,
Speaker 2: these nonstate Gospels whatever that we're talking about today, Thomas
Speaker 2: is probably the most widely read and beloved of those
Speaker 2: books that are left out of the Bible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Okay, now we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, who
Speaker 1: I know you're very close to, so you can pipe in.
Speaker 1: But I think anyone who has seen or read the
Speaker 1: da Vinci Code knows why the Gospel of Mary Magdalene
Speaker 1: was removed from the Bible. It plainly says that Jesus
Speaker 1: loved Mary more than anyone else. We are still missing
Speaker 1: the first few chapters of this book, and we do
Speaker 1: not know who wrote it. What we do know is
Speaker 1: that it discusses the very special relationship between Mary Magdalene
Speaker 1: and Jesus. It's filled with wonderful teachings that foresure terrified
Speaker 1: the church leaders. For example, Jesus says sin isn't a
Speaker 1: moral transgression, but imbalance it says, Mary received secret teachings
Speaker 1: from Jesus, and we still don't really know what these
Speaker 1: secrets are. One of them is something to do with
Speaker 1: rising through the levels of heaven. She talks about the
Speaker 1: soul's journey after death, where it has to pass through
Speaker 1: four powers darkness, desire, ignorance, and death. To successfully pass
Speaker 1: through each of these you have to prove gnoses to
Speaker 1: show you're free from the material world's influence. Of course,
Speaker 1: these secret teachings really angered the guides. Peter and his
Speaker 1: brother Andrew got super offended and started a fight. One
Speaker 1: of the disciples defends Mary. Some say it's Levi, others
Speaker 1: say it's Matthew. He reminds Peter and Andrew that Jesus
Speaker 1: loved Mary most and knew her very well, so they
Speaker 1: should therefore trust her. Here we see, Peter, you know
Speaker 1: the rock upon which Jesus said to build his church
Speaker 1: in a really different light. But he was also the
Speaker 1: first to deny Christ. Remember in the Bible, when Jesus says, truly,
Speaker 1: I tell you this very night before the rooster crows,
Speaker 1: you will deny me three times, and Peter was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I will ever deny you. I would rather die. But then,
Speaker 1: of course when the authorities come, Peter denies knowing Christ
Speaker 1: three times. So even in the biblically approved books, it's
Speaker 1: Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary who are the strong ones
Speaker 1: steadfastly by Jesus's side, And throughout the book, Mary Magdalene
Speaker 1: is referred to as the Apostle of the apostles and
Speaker 1: is described over and over comforting the men and being
Speaker 1: the strong one for them. In this book, Mary is
Speaker 1: depicted as the successor of Jesus, not Peter. And remember
Speaker 1: it is his mom Mother Mary, and his love Mary
Speaker 1: Magdalene who are the first to see him.
Speaker 2: Risen, Okay, I got a couple of things I want
Speaker 2: to add to this one. If you've actually read the
Speaker 2: book the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, there's a sentence in
Speaker 2: the book where it talks about him frequently kissing her
Speaker 2: on the mouth. And that was one of the pieces
Speaker 2: of the puzzle that angered the disciples Peace particularly, was
Speaker 2: that there was that physical difference that was overtly different
Speaker 2: with his relationship with Mary Magdalene as opposed to his
Speaker 2: relationship with the apostles, the men apostles, because she was
Speaker 2: an apostle. Soon right, Yeah, they were jealous, they were
Speaker 2: absolutely jealous. And there is a discussion in the book
Speaker 2: exactly as you say, that she is the one who
Speaker 2: is to be his successor. And there's a lot of
Speaker 2: evidence beyond what we're talking about today that discusses how
Speaker 2: eventually she ends up in the south of France and
Speaker 2: does indeed continue to carry Jesus's message. So there's a
Speaker 2: whole other historical piece to Mary Magdalene's story after she
Speaker 2: was able to get out of Judea and take it
Speaker 2: away and be safe. In addition to that, some years
Speaker 2: ago another fragment of what was perhaps the Book of
Speaker 2: Mary Magdalene was found, I forget where, and Elaine Pageles,
Speaker 2: who is the Yale professor who is such an expert
Speaker 2: on this material, researched it and looked at it and
Speaker 2: did all sorts of tests on it and decided it
Speaker 2: was fake, that it was not real. And of course
Speaker 2: those of us who have followed this story of the
Speaker 2: writing of this book and the story of Mary Magdalene
Speaker 2: were just so hopeful that perhaps this was real, but
Speaker 2: Elaine Pagel said it was not. And Elaine Pagels is
Speaker 2: certainly someone whose work I respect and trust.
Speaker 1: One thing that I always think is interesting is in
Speaker 1: the Bible they refer to Jesus as rabbi, and you
Speaker 1: cannot be a rabbi unless you're married.
Speaker 2: That's right. It leads that, well, at least it we
Speaker 2: used to be that way. Yeah, it depends on which
Speaker 2: sect which Jesus.
Speaker 1: To day, but back then you had to be married.
Speaker 2: Right, exactly. And the word read by of course means teacher,
Speaker 2: but it is implied that one has to be married.
Speaker 1: And then what did the church do to Mary Magdalene?
Speaker 1: They made her a prostitute and.
Speaker 2: Of course dressed her in red, right, yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 2: you know, I just have to do this one little thing.
Speaker 2: And anybody who has ever taken a toroau class with
Speaker 2: me knows story. Every one of us who has ever
Speaker 2: seen The Little Mermaid has ignored a really, really, really
Speaker 2: important and significant symbol that Walt Disney put into that movie.
Speaker 2: There is a picture hanging on her wall, and I
Speaker 2: always want to say it's Caravaggio, but I'm not sure
Speaker 2: I've got that right. But it's a famous portrait, and
Speaker 2: when I say it, everybody's going to go, oh, I've
Speaker 2: seen that picture. It's a Mary Magdalene sitting at a
Speaker 2: table with a candle on the table, and she is
Speaker 2: dressed in red and holding a skull in her hand.
Speaker 2: Please tell me why that picture hangs in Aeriel's bedroom.
Speaker 1: Well, we could do a whole other show on the
Speaker 1: weird stuff Disney puts in the movies.
Speaker 2: Not to talk about Disney so much as to say
Speaker 2: that she is hidden in plain sight in so many
Speaker 2: ways even today in the worldview.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now we know. I think that since these
Speaker 1: books came to light, we know that her true place
Speaker 1: was by his side, absolutely, all right, tell us about
Speaker 1: the next one.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this next text we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: is called the Testimony of Truth, and it offers a
Speaker 2: very different creation story here. In this story, the serpent
Speaker 2: is the hero because he teaches us knowledge, asking Adam
Speaker 2: and Eve, why wouldn't God want you to know knowledge?
Speaker 2: That's an interesting question in this book, Eve, thank Goodness
Speaker 2: is not responsible for our fall. The Testimony of Truth
Speaker 2: is attempts to show that the God of the Old
Speaker 2: Testament is a false God, an arrogant, jealous pretender. For example,
Speaker 2: the book asks, if God were all knowing, why did
Speaker 2: he have to ask in the Book of Genesis, Adam,
Speaker 2: where are you? This book says that the Old Testament
Speaker 2: God is a lower deity, pretending to be more than
Speaker 2: he is by keeping us in the dark. It even
Speaker 2: goes off on martyred Christians, saying that the true God
Speaker 2: would never ask this of us. He doesn't need your blood,
Speaker 2: and he doesn't want you to die so cruelly. The
Speaker 2: text says that a true martyr's death is the death
Speaker 2: of your own ignorance. Boy, does this book sound like
Speaker 2: esotic modern spiritual thought? Does it not?
Speaker 1: It really really does. I remember asking my religious teachers
Speaker 1: that question all the time. I would say, especially to
Speaker 1: poor sister Catherine, I would say, well, we're sent to
Speaker 1: school to learn. You are teaching us. Why wouldn't God
Speaker 1: want us to eat from the tree of knowledge. It's
Speaker 1: the one thing that has always baffled me. Why would
Speaker 1: you create us and want us to be ignorant? That
Speaker 1: makes no sense? And then she would usually give me
Speaker 1: a whole lecture on pride. God was before the fall, and.
Speaker 2: And I would give you a lecture on before there
Speaker 2: was Yahweh, before there was the Judaic tradition, the patriarchy,
Speaker 2: and the three patriarchal religions. Before that there was the patriarchy,
Speaker 2: there was a time when quote God was a woman
Speaker 2: and perhaps the god of and I'm just surmising here
Speaker 2: based on this book, what if, just what if the
Speaker 2: reason that God didn't want you to have knowledge was
Speaker 2: because you would learn that God was not the be
Speaker 2: all indo and there had been other folks in other
Speaker 2: cultures before him, right, and that nobody would stop you
Speaker 2: really from learning if you wanted to learn.
Speaker 1: Right. But doesn't that make you think in doubt?
Speaker 2: Because of course it does.
Speaker 1: If you were all knowing and all loving and all everything,
Speaker 1: then you would want to share all of that with
Speaker 1: your creations. Okay, So then we have the life of
Speaker 1: Adam and Eve. And this book describes Adam and Eve's
Speaker 1: life after they're kicked out of the garden. It switches
Speaker 1: the blame from Adam and Eve to Satan to atone
Speaker 1: for their sin. Adam has to stand fasting in the
Speaker 1: Jordan River for forty days, while Eve has to stand
Speaker 1: in the Tigris River for forty days, but she only
Speaker 1: lasts thirty seven. So these acts were meant to reverse
Speaker 1: the fall through suffering and repentance. But then Satan disguises
Speaker 1: himself as an angel of light and tricks Eve into
Speaker 1: thinking she's done her forty days and has completed her penance.
Speaker 1: So here we see Satan as the cause of our fall,
Speaker 1: not Eve. So I think that's really interesting. We know
Speaker 1: that after Cain kills Abel, Adam and Eve have another
Speaker 1: child's Seth, but in this book it says they had
Speaker 1: sixty more kids sixty sixty six to zero. Mm. God
Speaker 1: bless Eve. At one point, Adam is very ill and
Speaker 1: he asks God why is he suffering and why does
Speaker 1: death exist at all? He sends Seth to the Garden
Speaker 1: of Eden to get holy oil from the Tree of
Speaker 1: Life to relieve his pain, but archangel Michael tells him
Speaker 1: no and explains the holy oil is being saved for
Speaker 1: the resurrection of humanity. After Adam dies, angels lived his
Speaker 1: soul to heaven, and God personally oversees his burial and
Speaker 1: honor not given to any later biblical human. Eve foretells
Speaker 1: her own death shortly after Adam's passing and is buried
Speaker 1: beside him, reinforcing their inseparable bond even after the fall.
Speaker 1: So that's just really interesting that we have a lot
Speaker 1: of women being blamed for stuff and that's left in
Speaker 1: the Bible, but these versions that don't blame the woman
Speaker 1: are removed from the Bible. So now we're going to
Speaker 1: move into one of the most controversial banned Bible books,
Speaker 1: and that is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which talks
Speaker 1: about Jesus as a kid growing up and whooa boy
Speaker 1: is it heavy and intense. But first we're going to
Speaker 1: take our last break. We'll be right back. Hey, guys,
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Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome back. We're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which dives into the years we
Speaker 1: never hear about the stretch between Jesus's verse and the
Speaker 1: moment he shows up as a fully formed teacher in
Speaker 1: the canonical Gospels. This book follows Jesus from about age
Speaker 1: five to twelve, and honestly, it feels less like a
Speaker 1: Holy biography and more like a Marvel movie as we
Speaker 1: watch a powerful kid slowly figure out who he is
Speaker 1: and how much damage and good his words can do.
Speaker 1: Early on, we see Jesus as this little child, and
Speaker 1: he knows he has this raw power, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: have emotional control yet. He knows he's different, and he
Speaker 1: doesn't always handle that well. One of the opening stories
Speaker 1: shows him for birds out of clay on the Sabbath.
Speaker 1: When he's scolded, he simply claps his hands and says,
Speaker 1: go take flight like living beings, and the little clay
Speaker 1: birds fly away. But the awe people felt around him
Speaker 1: from doing these things quickly turns to fear, though, because
Speaker 1: when people interfere with Jesus, he reacts in pretty scary ways.
Speaker 1: For example, when a boy ruins these pools of water
Speaker 1: that Jesus is playing, and Jesus snaps and yells, you
Speaker 1: will dry up like a tree and you will never
Speaker 1: bear fruit, the text says, the child immediately withered away.
Speaker 1: This pattern shows up again and again in the early chapters.
Speaker 1: A boy bumps into Jesus while running through town, and
Speaker 1: Jesus turns and says, you will not complete your journey.
Speaker 1: The boy instantly collapses and dies Onlookers are horrified, asking
Speaker 1: where has this child come from that his every word
Speaker 1: becomes a deed. Another time, Jesus is arguing with one
Speaker 1: of his teachers and the teacher slaps him and Jesus
Speaker 1: kills him in return. Well, yeah, but can you imagine
Speaker 1: being five and seven and not understanding that you're this
Speaker 1: powerful and having these emotional reactions and they become real?
Speaker 2: He does sound like a Marvel movie doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It does, but it must have been terrifying for little
Speaker 1: Jesus too. The villagers are terrified, and so they complain
Speaker 1: to Joseph, and they say, teach him to bless and
Speaker 1: not to curse, because he is killing our children. That
Speaker 1: line alone pretty much explains why church leaders wanted nothing
Speaker 1: to do with this text. If that sounds familiar, it should.
Speaker 1: This is the same fear humans had of the Watchers,
Speaker 1: the same fear behind Prometheus or the Serpent. Teaching us
Speaker 1: power without containment terrifies institutions, especially when it doesn't ask permission.
Speaker 1: But just like those other stories, this one isn't really
Speaker 1: about chaos. It's about evolution. After Joseph privately rebukes his son,
Speaker 1: the tone of the stories begins to shift. Jesus still
Speaker 1: knows exactly who he is, but he starts choosing differently.
Speaker 1: When another child falls from a rooftop and dies, Jesus
Speaker 1: brings him back to life so that the boy can
Speaker 1: clear Jesus's name. He heals the blind, he restores those
Speaker 1: he previously cursed, although I'm not sure about the boy
Speaker 1: who withered, and I don't know. More stories from this
Speaker 1: book show Jesus' learning restraint. We also see his confidence
Speaker 1: shift from brute force to wisdom. When teachers try to
Speaker 1: instruct him, Jesus flips the script entirely, explaining that they
Speaker 1: don't even understand the meaning of the alphabet. In one scene,
Speaker 1: he calmly dismantles their authority, not with violence but with knowledge.
Speaker 1: Towards the end of the Infancy Gospel, Jesus is healing
Speaker 1: a man who injured his foot with an axe and
Speaker 1: performing small, quiet miracles that help his family, like stretching
Speaker 1: a piece of wood that Joseph cut too short. The
Speaker 1: book ends where the canonical gospel finally picks up with
Speaker 1: the twelve year old Jesus in the temple, calmly amazing
Speaker 1: scholars with his understanding. By that point, he's no longer
Speaker 1: reactive or dangerous. He's still powerful, but there's intention behind it,
Speaker 1: and that's really the heart of why this book made
Speaker 1: people uncomfortable. It doesn't show a perfectly serene savior from
Speaker 1: day one. It shows a divine child growing into himself,
Speaker 1: learning empathy, restraint, and responsibility the hard way. Maybe that
Speaker 1: felt a little too human. It doesn't show a flawless
Speaker 1: savior dropped into the world fully formed. It shows a
Speaker 1: divine being growing into himself and yeah, making some terrifying
Speaker 1: mistakes along the way. But to me, reading this step
Speaker 1: made me feel closer to Jesus. And it also helped
Speaker 1: me to understand one thing in the Bible that I
Speaker 1: always paused at and went humhm is the wedding of
Speaker 1: Cana when they run out of wine and Mary walks
Speaker 1: up to her son and she's like, hey, Jesus, do
Speaker 1: your thing and Jesus is like, yeah, Mom, it's not
Speaker 1: my time. And she says, these people they're good people
Speaker 1: and they ran out of wine. Do your thing, and
Speaker 1: he's like, okay, fine, and he turns the water to wine.
Speaker 1: I think everyone knows that story, but I wonder if
Speaker 1: anyone has thought like I did, how did Mary know
Speaker 1: that Jesus could do that if he hadn't been doing
Speaker 1: it all along? Did you ever one? On? Oh?
Speaker 2: Way, I certainly have and go back to that time
Speaker 2: that he sort of escaped mom and dad and went
Speaker 2: to the temple and was basically learning and teaching in
Speaker 2: the temple when he was twelve, right, because that was
Speaker 2: a big turning point. Is also, of course, the bar
Speaker 2: mits that time is for young Jewish voice. So it
Speaker 2: was a transition point that time in the temple, but
Speaker 2: clearly he held folks in all in what he did
Speaker 2: in that temple at twelve years old, he wasn't just
Speaker 2: fully formed poof and Mom suddenly has this intuition that
Speaker 2: he can turn water into wine at.
Speaker 1: Awaiting right exactly. And reading this also made me feel
Speaker 1: even closer to Mary. Poor Mary. I mean, let's just
Speaker 1: take a moment to think about her. Here, she is
Speaker 1: this young virgin, she's been working in this temple for
Speaker 1: you know, she was dedicated to the temple. I think
Speaker 1: when she was nine or ten, she was very young.
Speaker 1: And then when she's we don't know, twelve or fourteen,
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, you got to marry this guy, Joseph.
Speaker 1: Now some people say he's a widow to explain why
Speaker 1: Jesus had brothers. Hmm, we could do that another time,
Speaker 1: but I think Mary had other kids with Joseph, and
Speaker 1: I think that's fine. But anyway, then she gets pregnant
Speaker 1: as a virgin, and she's engaged to this older guy
Speaker 1: and she's terrified that he's going to think whatever, and
Speaker 1: then angels visit her. Angels visit Joseph, that's overwhelming. Hey, Mary,
Speaker 1: you're going to have the son of God. That's a lot.
Speaker 1: Then she has this baby in a barn, let's not
Speaker 1: forget that. And then this baby has all these powers.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being the mother to little Jesus. It
Speaker 1: must have been so scary, and you must have felt
Speaker 1: so alone as a mom, not knowing what to do
Speaker 1: with this beautiful little child with these powers to turn
Speaker 1: his words into actions immediately.
Speaker 2: Remember, though, you know, the way you're using the word
Speaker 2: virgin is the way we think of the word meaning today,
Speaker 2: But it also meant just a young maiden, it meant
Speaker 2: someone who was not married, or it doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 2: virginity in the way that we're describing it today. So
Speaker 2: you can look at it more metaphorically, Mary, situation, more
Speaker 2: metaphorically then physically, although certainly that's the traditional way of
Speaker 2: accepting Jesus's virgin birth. However, and yes, she had that
Speaker 2: baby in a barn by herself, with an old man
Speaker 2: husband and a donkey watching. I mean that alone is
Speaker 2: a terrifying thought to me that she managed that, But
Speaker 2: somehow she did. But when they got back home to Nazareth,
Speaker 2: she did have support. Remember her mother Anna was there,
Speaker 2: her cousin Elizabeth was nearby, so she did have a
Speaker 2: group of women to help support her and raise this baby.
Speaker 2: And not only did they raise him, but they raised
Speaker 2: his cousin John. And you know, the two of them
Speaker 2: were some weird boys.
Speaker 1: No I'm serious, Oh, I know that must have been
Speaker 1: quite the plate eate.
Speaker 2: Will you know?
Speaker 1: Think?
Speaker 2: Well, think about it, right, if you just strip away
Speaker 2: the incredible symbolism and the awe that most folks feel
Speaker 2: around this life story of Gas and his cousin John,
Speaker 2: and you just look at folks living in hovels in
Speaker 2: a village where other folks have said could anything ever
Speaker 2: come good from Nazareth? So you know it was not
Speaker 2: a good place. And here you've got these boys who
Speaker 2: are probably not only doing what normal kids do, but all.
Speaker 1: Playing in puddles and then drying up the kid who complains, well.
Speaker 2: There is that.
Speaker 1: Yes, I still can't picture. I can't picture Jesus like
Speaker 1: running home to help his dad muck out the stables
Speaker 1: and some kid bumps into him and he's like be
Speaker 1: gone and the kid just disappears or dies. Can you
Speaker 1: imagine witnessing that he probably didn't do.
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff because he was probably a nice kid.
Speaker 1: It was I just read you the example where he
Speaker 1: did exactly that.
Speaker 2: I know that, and I'm not sure I believe it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to believe it, right, I don't want
Speaker 2: to believe it. But even if we take away the
Speaker 2: research and the theory that he spent time in India,
Speaker 2: he still probably had a pretty weird childhood in the
Speaker 2: village of Nazareth. And I know this is not going
Speaker 2: to be okay with some folks, but it's what keeps
Speaker 2: coming to mind. Is I think about Tabitha, the baby
Speaker 2: in Bewitched do things, and was it that cool and wonderful?
Speaker 2: And she was just kind of like, well, I didn't
Speaker 2: know that that would have British. He with us a
Speaker 2: little nose and things happened. Don't you wonder if Jesus
Speaker 2: had some of those same experiences.
Speaker 1: He must have, right, And maybe John the Baptist was
Speaker 1: like Tabitha's brother. What was his name, Adam, I don't remember,
Speaker 1: and he had Darren's boring personality, you know. Anyway, we digress, Okay.
Speaker 2: We do things. Let me just finish with this for
Speaker 2: a second. Bats in my mind We really do have,
Speaker 2: and have have for more than two thousand years, these
Speaker 2: very divergent perspectives on who this man was, and is
Speaker 2: that human part of him and that spiritual part of him?
Speaker 2: And there are places where the two come together in
Speaker 2: belief systems and places where they do not.
Speaker 1: Okay, when you were raised as a Christian and we're
Speaker 1: going to church with your mom and dad, did you
Speaker 1: pray to Jesus, to God or to marry?
Speaker 2: Oh? To go Oh you didn't have my mother. Oh no,
Speaker 2: we prayed to God. There was no reason for an
Speaker 2: intercessory person. That was what Catholics did.
Speaker 1: So we went right to God.
Speaker 2: Correct, we went right to God. We went straight to
Speaker 2: the source. Now, you know, we would say nice things
Speaker 2: to Jesus. We never ever ever pray to Mary. She
Speaker 2: was just kind of this chick in the background, right,
Speaker 2: and I use that word that phrase in quotes.
Speaker 1: Well, we were you can pray to Mary, you can
Speaker 1: pray to Jesus, you can pray to God. And then
Speaker 1: we were taught you got all these angels, we had
Speaker 1: all these people we could talk to.
Speaker 2: You know, we didn't and I.
Speaker 1: Always went to Mary.
Speaker 2: You were a good Catholic girl.
Speaker 1: Well, I just you know, she was like my mom,
Speaker 1: so I would tell her my problems and when I
Speaker 1: was saying praying on the beads, and that felt very comforting,
Speaker 1: and I always feel very close to her. I never
Speaker 1: really talked to Jesus because I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: he walked on water, and he's kind of mean in
Speaker 1: a lot of scenes in the Bible, like the Persistent
Speaker 1: Widow that just breaks my heart, where she's like tugging
Speaker 1: on his robes and he's basically batting her away like
Speaker 1: an annoying gnat until she's like persistent and then he
Speaker 1: finally is nice to her. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: scenes where he's not like super Now, now, Samantha, tell
Speaker 1: me what's on your mind. I don't get that impression
Speaker 1: from the Jesus I know in the Bible, So you
Speaker 1: didn't grow up water skiing waki people people. Just so
Speaker 1: you know, it is ten am as we were recording
Speaker 1: this deb has not had a gen and tonic or
Speaker 1: a class of wine.
Speaker 2: No, I have not. I'm still drinking coffee.
Speaker 1: But reading this story makes me feel closer to him,
Speaker 1: like I could talk to him, you know.
Speaker 2: I guess my perspective on Jesus has always been very respectful.
Speaker 2: I've not always agreed with everything he said. I've had
Speaker 2: times where I really doubted and had lots of learning
Speaker 2: to do. It's probably still do. But I do maintain
Speaker 2: that some of the things he said, some of his teachings,
Speaker 2: most of them really are applicable to lessons that we
Speaker 2: continue to need to learn today. I have a lot
Speaker 2: of respect for him in that way, do I in
Speaker 2: terms of the time and the culture and what happened
Speaker 2: to women and some of his followers know not so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's I don't know a lot of the stories,
Speaker 1: the prodigal Son, that's that parable he uses. I always think, Jesus,
Speaker 1: maybe you were an only child because that story is
Speaker 1: so annoying.
Speaker 2: It's probably one of my least favorite things.
Speaker 1: So yes, yeah, so I don't know. I just never
Speaker 1: really felt like super connected. But I think if they
Speaker 1: left this in, I think more people would feel like
Speaker 1: they could talk to him. So I help people listening
Speaker 1: read it and see if they come to the same
Speaker 1: conclusions as I do. All right, So, before we wrap up,
Speaker 1: we wanted to include not a missing book from the Bible,
Speaker 1: but a missing person, and that would be God's wife. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that sounds a lot like a Dan Brown
Speaker 1: plot twist.
Speaker 2: But it turns out God's wife, not Jesus's wife.
Speaker 1: God God's wife. Right, We've already talked about Jesus's wife,
Speaker 1: Mary Magdalene. Okay, go ahead, look at me breaking every
Speaker 1: catechism I was ever raised.
Speaker 2: I'm nervous talking to you.
Speaker 1: I haven't been smoded yet, all right, But it do
Speaker 1: as turn out there's some evidence to this that God
Speaker 1: did have a wife. In the ancient Near East, a
Speaker 1: goddess named Ashira was widely worshiped as a mother in
Speaker 1: fertility deity, and multiple inscriptions suggest she wasn't just hanging
Speaker 1: around with Yahweh, she was his partner. The biggest wait
Speaker 1: wat moment comes from an eighth century BCE site called
Speaker 1: kukin Contillid Azrid, where archaeologists found pottery inscribed with a
Speaker 1: blessing that reads, I bless you by Yahweh of Samarah
Speaker 1: and by his Asherah. Other inscriptions in texts show Ashra
Speaker 1: being worshiped alongside Yahweh across Israel and even into Egypt,
Speaker 1: often invoked together for blessings of fertility. And prosperity. According
Speaker 1: to the Book of Kings, she was even housed inside
Speaker 1: the temple complex itself, complete with rituals in her honor.
Speaker 1: Later Biblical editors clearly try to scrub out, but they
Speaker 1: didn't totally succeed. Their failure actually tells us something really important.
Speaker 1: For a long time, people liked the idea of a
Speaker 1: God who wasn't alone. Strict Monotheism didn't show up overnight,
Speaker 1: as we know, for much of Israel's early history, the
Speaker 1: divine may have been seen as a power couple. Even
Speaker 1: the Bible leaves bread combs of this awkward past. In
Speaker 1: the Book of Jeremiah, she's referred to as the Queen
Speaker 1: of Heaven. In the second Book of Kings, a king
Speaker 1: orders a full spiritual spring cleaning, removing ritual objects made
Speaker 1: quote for Baal and Asherah and all the starry host translation,
Speaker 1: she had a reserve seat right next to Yahweh for
Speaker 1: a long time before reformers decided God needed to go solo. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Ashira gets downgraded from goddess to furniture. She's reduced to
Speaker 1: her cult symbol, a stylized tree or a wooden pull.
Speaker 1: Trees after all symbolized life and nourishment in arid regions,
Speaker 1: which is why they were tied to her in the
Speaker 1: first place. Some scholars even think Ashiera's Sacred Tree shows
Speaker 1: up one last time in disguise as the tree in
Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden, and some scholars say her other
Speaker 1: symbol is a serpent. The argument is that elite religious
Speaker 1: leaders folded goddess symbolism into the Fall story as a warning,
Speaker 1: turning a symbol of life into the source of humanity's downfall.
Speaker 1: And just like that, God became a bachelor and the
Speaker 1: divine feminine quietly exited the story.
Speaker 2: Well, she may have in the story, but she probably
Speaker 2: didn't in the hearts of lots of people.
Speaker 1: That is true.
Speaker 2: You know, I've told this story on the podcast many
Speaker 2: times before, so I will not belabor it. But there
Speaker 2: is a reason that the serpent in the Garden of
Speaker 2: Eden is such a symbol of negativity, and it comes
Speaker 2: from this story about this goddess and so many other
Speaker 2: goddesses from the Mesopotamian era and the eastern part of
Speaker 2: the Mediterranean and an Asia Minor if for example, you remember,
Speaker 2: and I'll post a picture of it on our Facebook page.
Speaker 2: After this episode airs. One of the oldest symbols we
Speaker 2: have is of a Minoan goddess holding in her hands
Speaker 2: a snake in each hand above her head. In many cultures,
Speaker 2: the snake is a symbol of transmutation and regeneration in
Speaker 2: our lives. And boy, that was not okay with the patriarchy,
Speaker 2: and therefore, of course the goddess his wife got erased
Speaker 2: from the story. Once again, I remind people, and I
Speaker 2: know you and I talked about this other day as
Speaker 2: we were preparing for this episode. I still recommend When
Speaker 2: God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone, and the archaeology
Speaker 2: and anthropology work that she did to make that book
Speaker 2: apen is just amazing. Yes, it's dry reading read it anyway,
Speaker 2: so the.
Speaker 1: Aper I know. I told Deb I want to like
Speaker 1: a Penguin Puffin classic version of that book because it
Speaker 1: is so scholarly and dry.
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: I think overall, when you zoom out and you look
Speaker 1: at Enoch, the Watchers, the Gnostic Gospels, the Life of
Speaker 1: Adam and Eve, and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas together,
Speaker 1: you can see the problem they all created for the
Speaker 1: early Church. These books refuse to paint God angels or
Speaker 1: Jesus as static, flawless figures. They show power as something
Speaker 1: that can be misused. They show knowledge as destabilizing. They
Speaker 1: show divine beings learning, evolving, rebelling, failing and correcting. Course,
Speaker 1: that's dangerous theology, because if angels can fall, if divine
Speaker 1: children can make mistakes, if salvation comes through understanding instead
Speaker 1: of obedience, then authority shifts inward. It moves away from
Speaker 1: institutions and toward experience, gnoses and personal transformation. These texts
Speaker 1: don't say trust us, they say watch closely, learn, discern
Speaker 1: And that might be the real reason they were removed.
Speaker 1: Not because they were fake, because they weren't, not because
Speaker 1: they were fringe, but because they told stories where power
Speaker 1: wasn't safely contained. And we're becoming divine was a process,
Speaker 1: not a title, which raises the uncomfortable question they've always asked,
Speaker 1: even if the gods had to grow in wisdom, what
Speaker 1: does that say about us? Because the power the kingdom,
Speaker 1: it's within us.
Speaker 2: I have never been able to believe in a divine
Speaker 2: source that would have given us the power of thought
Speaker 2: and reason and discernment without thinking that it was an
Speaker 2: okay thing that we used it exactly.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to think about a god that would
Speaker 1: do that, that would keep us under his thumb like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's why so many people have struggled with
Speaker 1: faith and religion and all of that for so many centuries. Well,
Speaker 1: I hope this has given everyone lots to think about.
Speaker 1: We might get some interesting feedback on this one, folks.
Speaker 2: We would love to hear your thoughts. This is a
Speaker 2: lot to unwrap. They are centuries of research that have
Speaker 2: gone into this brief synopsis that Samantha and I have
Speaker 2: given you today, and we invite you to really look
Speaker 2: at it with an open mind and question and think
Speaker 2: about what really matters to you in your own beliefs
Speaker 2: and your own practices. So spend some time with it,
Speaker 2: and we hope you do.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening, everyone, be the light for
Speaker 1: yourself and others.
Speaker 2: Take care everyone.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Psychic Teachers, your podcast for
Speaker 1: sus seekers, light workers, mystics, and magical thinkers. If you
Speaker 1: like the show, please tell a friend or leave us
Speaker 1: a review wherever you listen to your podcast. For more information,
Speaker 1: check out our Facebook page, Psychic Teachers or our websites.
Speaker 1: Samantha fay dot com and Debbowen dot com. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening and have a great week.