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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your host Samantha

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<v Speaker 1>Fay and I'm Deb Bowen, and today we are going

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss books in the Bible that never made it in.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you might be thinking to yourself, Samantha and Deb,

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<v Speaker 1>what the heck does this have to do with our show. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the books that got kicked out were because

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<v Speaker 1>of psychic, magical, or divine feminine elements. Basically, a group

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<v Speaker 1>of men got together over several decades and really centuries,

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<v Speaker 1>refining what we now recognize as the Bible. This process

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<v Speaker 1>was called canonization, and it wasn't until the fourth century

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<v Speaker 1>that the books in the Bible were fully locked in.

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<v Speaker 1>And I am sure you could imagine and how heated

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<v Speaker 1>many of these debates became. The arguments were over lots

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<v Speaker 1>of things, disparities in the Greek and Hebrew translations. Some

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<v Speaker 1>just didn't like the men who wrote the books. Others

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<v Speaker 1>argued about the teachings and the books. What we recognize

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<v Speaker 1>as the Bible today has changed many times. The books

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<v Speaker 1>that were left out are called apocrypha, which means hidden

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<v Speaker 1>and get this, there are more apocryphal books than there

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<v Speaker 1>are books in the Bible.

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<v Speaker 2>That does not surprise me. I know I didn't know that,

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<v Speaker 2>but that really does not surprise me. The selection process

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<v Speaker 2>that you said was called canonization was really fraught with

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<v Speaker 2>lots of conflicting concepts and what was not considered safe

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<v Speaker 2>or proper in terms of protecting the powers it be.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's what it came down to. Now, the first

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<v Speaker 1>apocryphal book we're going to discuss is the Book of

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<v Speaker 1>Eno and I have read this one many many times.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you read it?

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<v Speaker 2>I have skimmed through it, and we've done some episodes

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<v Speaker 2>on the Book of Enoch Ovindre. Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we have definitely mentioned this book several times because

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<v Speaker 1>it is fascinating. But we're not going to get into

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<v Speaker 1>all the ditty gritty. We're just going to tell you

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much an overview of what it says and why

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<v Speaker 1>it was kicked out. Enoch lived hundreds of years before

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<v Speaker 1>the flood, and he was a real man. You can

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<v Speaker 1>read about him in the Bible. He's the one who

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<v Speaker 1>didn't die. God just simply took him up to heaven

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<v Speaker 1>and placed Enoch beside him. It said that Enoch's job

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<v Speaker 1>is to reveal information to humanity. Many believe he's the

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<v Speaker 1>one who became the angel Metatron. The Book of Enoch

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<v Speaker 1>tells us not only his story, but also teaches us

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<v Speaker 1>about the fallen Angels. It's believed to have been written

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<v Speaker 1>between three hundred BC and one hundred ADY. It was

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<v Speaker 1>removed from the Bible shortly before the third century, and

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<v Speaker 1>it predicts all sorts of wars and the Second Coming.

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<v Speaker 1>Most famously, it tells the story of the Watchers, who

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<v Speaker 1>are described as two hundred angels who were sent to

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<v Speaker 1>Earth to watch over us now. In this book, Enoch

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<v Speaker 1>describes lots of really cool things, like the movement of

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<v Speaker 1>the sun, the moon, and stars through a series of portals.

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<v Speaker 1>It also introduces a three hundred and sixty four day calendar,

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<v Speaker 1>which was very different from the lunar calendars being followed

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<v Speaker 1>at that time. The book also talks about how Enoch

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<v Speaker 1>was taken on a tour of heaven and Hell, guided

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<v Speaker 1>by two angels who many believe were Uriel and Michael.

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<v Speaker 1>Enoch says he saw a burning valley where the fallen

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<v Speaker 1>Angels were imprisoned, and the Tree of life in heaven. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this next section talks about who we are in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of animal symbolism and I'd love for you to tell

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<v Speaker 1>people about that, because with your big background in first

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<v Speaker 1>people's history, I think you can add something to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. One section uses symbolism to tell the history of

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<v Speaker 2>the world, where we're depicted, Samantha says, as animals either

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<v Speaker 2>bulls or sheep, and the wicked people are symbolized as lions, wolves,

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<v Speaker 2>or birds of prey. And there's a final battle between

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<v Speaker 2>the good and evil animals that ends in the arrival

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<v Speaker 2>of the great White Bull. So that's one version of

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<v Speaker 2>how we might look at the Biblical perspective on animal people. However,

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<v Speaker 2>there are others. For example, in the Book of Revelation,

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<v Speaker 2>the animals are depicted in different ways, the four horsemen

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<v Speaker 2>of the Apocalypse and the Lion of Judah, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a very positive perspective on the lion as opposed to

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<v Speaker 2>what we just said, and the eagles. So if you

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<v Speaker 2>look at for example, to Row and you look at

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<v Speaker 2>the wheel of fortune Key and the world the world

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<v Speaker 2>thank you my Marcus quick play Worldkik and Fortune Key,

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<v Speaker 2>you see those four beings, angelic beings, animal beings in

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<v Speaker 2>the corners representing the cardinal directions of the zodiac. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>the cardinal points of the zodiac and the Revelation point

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<v Speaker 2>that I was just talking about. So it's not always consistent,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, is my point. It's depending on whether you're

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<v Speaker 2>reading Enoch or whether you're reading Revelation or some other books.

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<v Speaker 2>In the Bible, you see animal people portrayed in various

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<v Speaker 2>different ways.

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<v Speaker 1>But don't the Lakota have a tradition of a great

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<v Speaker 1>white bull coming to save them?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? No, sort of. In the Lakota tradition, there is

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<v Speaker 2>a legend of a woman whose name was white Buffalo

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<v Speaker 2>calf woman. It's a buffalo, not a bull. And here's

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<v Speaker 2>the story in a nutshell. There was a time where

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<v Speaker 2>the people had strayed from their connection to spirit, and

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<v Speaker 2>so Creator Spirit sent a woman and her name was

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<v Speaker 2>White Buffalo calf woman, to bring the people back to spirit.

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<v Speaker 2>And she was to bring to the people the sacred pipe,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a way of connecting with prayer to the

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<v Speaker 2>spiritual realm. And as she was approaching the tribe, two

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<v Speaker 2>men approached her to see who she was and what

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<v Speaker 2>she was coming across the plain. She was absolutely beautiful,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, wearing these white garments, and the other one said, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to do something else to you. And about

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<v Speaker 2>the time he started to attack her, the winds whipped

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<v Speaker 2>and the world changed and you couldn't see anything, and

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, his bones were on the ground,

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<v Speaker 2>and she was still walking towards the people and presented

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<v Speaker 2>the pipe to them. And so in honor of her

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<v Speaker 2>gift to them, there has always been the legend that

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<v Speaker 2>white Buffalo calf woman would in some way return to

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<v Speaker 2>the people as a white buffalo. And when a baby

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<v Speaker 2>buffalo and albido, for example, a white buffalo camp is bowling,

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<v Speaker 2>there is this concept of oh, is a new era coming?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that a harbinger of good things to come?

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<v Speaker 1>So I'd love to see the crossover between different beliefs.

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<v Speaker 2>I do too.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so back to the Watchers. They really enjoyed their

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<v Speaker 1>time on Earth, and they liked hanging out with the humans.

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<v Speaker 1>And God got really mad because they taught us all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of things like how to make weapons, how to

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<v Speaker 1>work with herbs and roots, how to perform magic, astrology,

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<v Speaker 1>even how to make cosmetics.

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<v Speaker 2>The Watchers taught us that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes they did yep. They knew that this had angered God,

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<v Speaker 1>so they asked Enoch to pray for them, so Enoch

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<v Speaker 1>sends a heavenly scribe to bring this petition to God,

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<v Speaker 1>but their apology is not granted. Now I just find

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<v Speaker 1>this so interesting because we see this repeated in several myths.

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<v Speaker 1>Think about Prometheus, who taught humans about fire and metallurgy

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<v Speaker 1>and cooking and forging weapons. Zeus got so mad that

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<v Speaker 1>he punished Prometheus for eternity. According to this myth, right

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<v Speaker 1>now as we speak, Prometheus is chained to a rock

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<v Speaker 1>and the Caucaus Mountains, where an eagle tears his liver

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<v Speaker 1>out and eats it every day, only for it to

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<v Speaker 1>regrow so the torture can be repeated the next day.

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<v Speaker 1>And even before this myth, we have the Sumerians, which

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the brothers Enlil and Enki coming to Earth.

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<v Speaker 1>And Eenki really liked the humans and he taught us

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<v Speaker 1>about farming, creating laws, using irrigation systems, and working with herbs,

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<v Speaker 1>and his brother Enlol got so mad he destroyed the

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<v Speaker 1>world with a flood. Enki warned one of his favorite

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<v Speaker 1>humans and told him to build a boat. Several centuries

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<v Speaker 1>before Noah, the Aztec myths talk about the feathered serpent

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<v Speaker 1>who taught humans high of farm, work with crystals, weave

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<v Speaker 1>and make clothes, and how to follow the stars. He

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<v Speaker 1>was ostracized from the other gods for eternity. I think

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<v Speaker 1>about that a lot. Deb how every time some higher

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<v Speaker 1>being tries to teach us something, the other beings get

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<v Speaker 1>super mad and punish them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and that is again it's a cross cultural thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, So back to the watchers. Not only did

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<v Speaker 1>they teach us how to grow food and wear eyeshadow,

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<v Speaker 1>they also lusted after woman and soon mate it, producing

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<v Speaker 1>a new hybrid species called the Nephilim. The word nephilim

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<v Speaker 1>means fallen, and these were described as monstrous giants. The

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<v Speaker 1>Book of Enoch says there were so many Nephelim all

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<v Speaker 1>over that God had to destroy Earth with the Great

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<v Speaker 1>Flood to get rid of them and their bloodlines. So

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<v Speaker 1>the Book of Enoch was most likely when move from

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<v Speaker 1>the Bible because it presents this idea that the rebellious

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<v Speaker 1>fallen angels or Watchers had power that could equal gods.

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<v Speaker 2>And that they did things for people that quote God

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<v Speaker 2>may not have wanted them to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Yeah, So this book and all the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>were going to discuss today really existed. The Book of

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<v Speaker 1>Enoch is referenced in the Bible, specifically in the Book

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<v Speaker 1>of Jude. It was lost for centuries until it was

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<v Speaker 1>discovered in Ethiopia, and then fragments of the text were

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<v Speaker 1>also found among the Dead Sea scrolls. So let's take

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<v Speaker 1>our first quick break, and then we're going to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>some more of these books from the Gnostic Gospels that

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<v Speaker 1>were kicked out and mostly destroyed until they were discovered

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty five. Will be right back.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to all of you who attended

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<v Speaker 2>our information session. Sarah and I had a wonderful time,

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<v Speaker 2>and we hope you'll join us for the first course

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<v Speaker 2>in our Sacred Summer series. It's entitled Acred Connections Discovering

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<v Speaker 2>Magic in the Ordinary. Registration opens on April twenty fifth,

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<v Speaker 2>and you'll find the link on my website deboen dot

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<v Speaker 2>com under Interactive Courses. And as always, there is an

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<v Speaker 2>afternoon and an evening section, and each section is limited

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<v Speaker 2>to thirty participants and registration closes on May ninth, So

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<v Speaker 2>sign up today and become a part of our growing

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<v Speaker 2>exploration of community. We so hope you'll join us.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back. Do you want to tell us about the

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<v Speaker 1>Gospel of Thomas, Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>I certainly do. It was one of the most intriguing

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<v Speaker 2>books from the Nastic Gospels. The Gospel of Thomas is

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<v Speaker 2>basically a collection of sayings or teachings from Jesus. The

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<v Speaker 2>Gospel of Thomas depicts what Jesus taught in private, while

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<v Speaker 2>the Gospel of Matthew depicts what Jesus taught publicly in

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<v Speaker 2>Galilee and judas he moved the country. The Gospel of

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<v Speaker 2>Thomas reads like Jesus was influenced by Buddhism or his

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<v Speaker 2>missing years really spent traveling through India. That's a big

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<v Speaker 2>question that will ever answer, but there's a lots of

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<v Speaker 2>speculation about it. So in the New Testament, Jesus is

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<v Speaker 2>depicted as the son of God. He's divined, conceived, born,

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<v Speaker 2>and lived without sin. But in the Gospel of Thomas,

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<v Speaker 2>we see a Jesus who's just like us, who's telling

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<v Speaker 2>us that we're divine too. He repeatedly says that the

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<v Speaker 2>Kingdom of God is not a place that it is

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<v Speaker 2>within us. He says it is within you and outside you. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>he's saying it's a state of mind that most people

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<v Speaker 2>fail to attain. So the book opens with these lines.

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<v Speaker 2>Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experienced death.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is also a main reason why it was

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<v Speaker 2>kicked out. It's saying that salvation doesn't come from Jesus's

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<v Speaker 2>sacrifice and resurrection, but from correctly understanding his teachings. Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>also dismisses church leaders and rituals, saying that outward rituals

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<v Speaker 2>can be harmful if done performatively. Jesus says, split a

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<v Speaker 2>piece of wood, I am there, Lift up the stone,

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<v Speaker 2>and you will find me, meaning he is everywhere, and

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have to go to a church, temple, or

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<v Speaker 2>holy place to find him. The energy of what Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>taught and believed was a collaborative divinity among us all,

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<v Speaker 2>and that there was never a need for us to

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<v Speaker 2>be in a particular place, that that spirit divinity was

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<v Speaker 2>always both within us and around us. Jesus in that

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<v Speaker 2>gospel doesn't talk about end times are the second coming.

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<v Speaker 2>When his disciples ask him when the kingdom would come,

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus said, it will not come by waiting for it. Rather,

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<v Speaker 2>the Kingdom of the Father is spread out on the

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<v Speaker 2>earth and men do not see it, So not a when,

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<v Speaker 2>but a where. He talked a lot about how we

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<v Speaker 2>get caught up in the fakeness of what surround us materialism, tradition, expectation.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, the whole world is intoxicated, but no one

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<v Speaker 2>is thirsty.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that line.

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<v Speaker 2>I do too, Samantha.

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<v Speaker 1>It invites me of what did Auntie Meme say the

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<v Speaker 1>whole world is a buffet and everyone's starving.

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<v Speaker 2>The actual line is life's a banquet and most sons

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<v Speaker 2>of bitches are starving to death. You go, That's the line.

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<v Speaker 2>The main premise of the book is my all time

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<v Speaker 2>favorite quote. If you bring forth what is within you,

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<v Speaker 2>what you bring forth will save you. We should have

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<v Speaker 2>that again. If you bring forth what is within you,

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<v Speaker 2>what you bring forth will save you. If you do

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<v Speaker 2>not bring forth what is within you, what you do

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<v Speaker 2>not bring forth will destroy you.

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<v Speaker 1>Wooh, that's exactly what Carl Jung said.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely it is. That's probably not the most famous line

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<v Speaker 2>in the book, but I certainly I do love that one.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably the most famous teaching from the book is again

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<v Speaker 2>short and very profound. Jesus repeatedly urged people not to

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<v Speaker 2>get caught up in fighting, wars and politics. To be

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<v Speaker 2>of the world, but not in it. Be a passerby.

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<v Speaker 2>Focus on your own truth, your own light, your own

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<v Speaker 2>kingdom within, be a passer by. Whoo Oh. It is

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<v Speaker 2>very and it's also just incredibly profound in its simplicity.

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<v Speaker 2>And I do know that of what's called the Los's Gospels,

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<v Speaker 2>these nonstate Gospels whatever that we're talking about today, Thomas

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<v Speaker 2>is probably the most widely read and beloved of those

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<v Speaker 2>books that are left out of the Bible.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Okay, now we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, who

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<v Speaker 1>I know you're very close to, so you can pipe in.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think anyone who has seen or read the

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<v Speaker 1>da Vinci Code knows why the Gospel of Mary Magdalene

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<v Speaker 1>was removed from the Bible. It plainly says that Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>loved Mary more than anyone else. We are still missing

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<v Speaker 1>the first few chapters of this book, and we do

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<v Speaker 1>not know who wrote it. What we do know is

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<v Speaker 1>that it discusses the very special relationship between Mary Magdalene

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<v Speaker 1>and Jesus. It's filled with wonderful teachings that foresure terrified

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<v Speaker 1>the church leaders. For example, Jesus says sin isn't a

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<v Speaker 1>moral transgression, but imbalance it says, Mary received secret teachings

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<v Speaker 1>from Jesus, and we still don't really know what these

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<v Speaker 1>secrets are. One of them is something to do with

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<v Speaker 1>rising through the levels of heaven. She talks about the

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<v Speaker 1>soul's journey after death, where it has to pass through

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<v Speaker 1>four powers darkness, desire, ignorance, and death. To successfully pass

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<v Speaker 1>through each of these you have to prove gnoses to

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<v Speaker 1>show you're free from the material world's influence. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>these secret teachings really angered the guides. Peter and his

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<v Speaker 1>brother Andrew got super offended and started a fight. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the disciples defends Mary. Some say it's Levi, others

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<v Speaker 1>say it's Matthew. He reminds Peter and Andrew that Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>loved Mary most and knew her very well, so they

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<v Speaker 1>should therefore trust her. Here we see, Peter, you know

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<v Speaker 1>the rock upon which Jesus said to build his church

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<v Speaker 1>in a really different light. But he was also the

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<v Speaker 1>first to deny Christ. Remember in the Bible, when Jesus says, truly,

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<v Speaker 1>I tell you this very night before the rooster crows,

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<v Speaker 1>you will deny me three times, and Peter was like, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I will ever deny you. I would rather die. But then,

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<v Speaker 1>of course when the authorities come, Peter denies knowing Christ

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<v Speaker 1>three times. So even in the biblically approved books, it's

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<v Speaker 1>Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary who are the strong ones

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<v Speaker 1>steadfastly by Jesus's side, And throughout the book, Mary Magdalene

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<v Speaker 1>is referred to as the Apostle of the apostles and

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<v Speaker 1>is described over and over comforting the men and being

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<v Speaker 1>the strong one for them. In this book, Mary is

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<v Speaker 1>depicted as the successor of Jesus, not Peter. And remember

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<v Speaker 1>it is his mom Mother Mary, and his love Mary

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<v Speaker 1>Magdalene who are the first to see him.

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<v Speaker 2>Risen, Okay, I got a couple of things I want

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<v Speaker 2>to add to this one. If you've actually read the

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<v Speaker 2>book the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, there's a sentence in

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<v Speaker 2>the book where it talks about him frequently kissing her

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<v Speaker 2>on the mouth. And that was one of the pieces

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<v Speaker 2>of the puzzle that angered the disciples Peace particularly, was

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<v Speaker 2>that there was that physical difference that was overtly different

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<v Speaker 2>with his relationship with Mary Magdalene as opposed to his

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with the apostles, the men apostles, because she was

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<v Speaker 2>an apostle. Soon right, Yeah, they were jealous, they were

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely jealous. And there is a discussion in the book

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<v Speaker 2>exactly as you say, that she is the one who

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<v Speaker 2>is to be his successor. And there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>evidence beyond what we're talking about today that discusses how

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<v Speaker 2>eventually she ends up in the south of France and

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<v Speaker 2>does indeed continue to carry Jesus's message. So there's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole other historical piece to Mary Magdalene's story after she

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<v Speaker 2>was able to get out of Judea and take it

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<v Speaker 2>away and be safe. In addition to that, some years

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<v Speaker 2>ago another fragment of what was perhaps the Book of

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<v Speaker 2>Mary Magdalene was found, I forget where, and Elaine Pageles,

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<v Speaker 2>who is the Yale professor who is such an expert

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<v Speaker 2>on this material, researched it and looked at it and

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<v Speaker 2>did all sorts of tests on it and decided it

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<v Speaker 2>was fake, that it was not real. And of course

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<v Speaker 2>those of us who have followed this story of the

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<v Speaker 2>writing of this book and the story of Mary Magdalene

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<v Speaker 2>were just so hopeful that perhaps this was real, but

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<v Speaker 2>Elaine Pagel said it was not. And Elaine Pagels is

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<v Speaker 2>certainly someone whose work I respect and trust.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing that I always think is interesting is in

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<v Speaker 1>the Bible they refer to Jesus as rabbi, and you

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<v Speaker 1>cannot be a rabbi unless you're married.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. It leads that, well, at least it we

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<v Speaker 2>used to be that way. Yeah, it depends on which

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<v Speaker 2>sect which Jesus.

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<v Speaker 1>To day, but back then you had to be married.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, exactly. And the word read by of course means teacher,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is implied that one has to be married.

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<v Speaker 1>And then what did the church do to Mary Magdalene?

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<v Speaker 1>They made her a prostitute and.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course dressed her in red, right, yeah, yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I just have to do this one little thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And anybody who has ever taken a toroau class with

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<v Speaker 2>me knows story. Every one of us who has ever

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<v Speaker 2>seen The Little Mermaid has ignored a really, really, really

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<v Speaker 2>important and significant symbol that Walt Disney put into that movie.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a picture hanging on her wall, and I

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<v Speaker 2>always want to say it's Caravaggio, but I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 2>I've got that right. But it's a famous portrait, and

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<v Speaker 2>when I say it, everybody's going to go, oh, I've

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<v Speaker 2>seen that picture. It's a Mary Magdalene sitting at a

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<v Speaker 2>table with a candle on the table, and she is

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<v Speaker 2>dressed in red and holding a skull in her hand.

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<v Speaker 2>Please tell me why that picture hangs in Aeriel's bedroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we could do a whole other show on the

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<v Speaker 1>weird stuff Disney puts in the movies.

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<v Speaker 2>Not to talk about Disney so much as to say

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<v Speaker 2>that she is hidden in plain sight in so many

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<v Speaker 2>ways even today in the worldview.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and now we know. I think that since these

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<v Speaker 1>books came to light, we know that her true place

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<v Speaker 1>was by his side, absolutely, all right, tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>the next one.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So this next text we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>is called the Testimony of Truth, and it offers a

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<v Speaker 2>very different creation story here. In this story, the serpent

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<v Speaker 2>is the hero because he teaches us knowledge, asking Adam

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<v Speaker 2>and Eve, why wouldn't God want you to know knowledge?

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<v Speaker 2>That's an interesting question in this book, Eve, thank Goodness

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<v Speaker 2>is not responsible for our fall. The Testimony of Truth

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<v Speaker 2>is attempts to show that the God of the Old

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<v Speaker 2>Testament is a false God, an arrogant, jealous pretender. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>the book asks, if God were all knowing, why did

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<v Speaker 2>he have to ask in the Book of Genesis, Adam,

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<v Speaker 2>where are you? This book says that the Old Testament

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<v Speaker 2>God is a lower deity, pretending to be more than

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<v Speaker 2>he is by keeping us in the dark. It even

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<v Speaker 2>goes off on martyred Christians, saying that the true God

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<v Speaker 2>would never ask this of us. He doesn't need your blood,

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<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't want you to die so cruelly. The

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<v Speaker 2>text says that a true martyr's death is the death

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<v Speaker 2>of your own ignorance. Boy, does this book sound like

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<v Speaker 2>esotic modern spiritual thought? Does it not?

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<v Speaker 1>It really really does. I remember asking my religious teachers

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<v Speaker 1>that question all the time. I would say, especially to

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<v Speaker 1>poor sister Catherine, I would say, well, we're sent to

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<v Speaker 1>school to learn. You are teaching us. Why wouldn't God

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<v Speaker 1>want us to eat from the tree of knowledge. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the one thing that has always baffled me. Why would

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<v Speaker 1>you create us and want us to be ignorant? That

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<v Speaker 1>makes no sense? And then she would usually give me

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lecture on pride. God was before the fall, and.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would give you a lecture on before there

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<v Speaker 2>was Yahweh, before there was the Judaic tradition, the patriarchy,

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<v Speaker 2>and the three patriarchal religions. Before that there was the patriarchy,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a time when quote God was a woman

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<v Speaker 2>and perhaps the god of and I'm just surmising here

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<v Speaker 2>based on this book, what if, just what if the

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<v Speaker 2>reason that God didn't want you to have knowledge was

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<v Speaker 2>because you would learn that God was not the be

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<v Speaker 2>all indo and there had been other folks in other

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<v Speaker 2>cultures before him, right, and that nobody would stop you

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<v Speaker 2>really from learning if you wanted to learn.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. But doesn't that make you think in doubt?

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<v Speaker 2>Because of course it does.

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<v Speaker 1>If you were all knowing and all loving and all everything,

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<v Speaker 1>then you would want to share all of that with

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<v Speaker 1>your creations. Okay, So then we have the life of

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<v Speaker 1>Adam and Eve. And this book describes Adam and Eve's

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<v Speaker 1>life after they're kicked out of the garden. It switches

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<v Speaker 1>the blame from Adam and Eve to Satan to atone

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<v Speaker 1>for their sin. Adam has to stand fasting in the

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<v Speaker 1>Jordan River for forty days, while Eve has to stand

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<v Speaker 1>in the Tigris River for forty days, but she only

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<v Speaker 1>lasts thirty seven. So these acts were meant to reverse

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<v Speaker 1>the fall through suffering and repentance. But then Satan disguises

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<v Speaker 1>himself as an angel of light and tricks Eve into

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<v Speaker 1>thinking she's done her forty days and has completed her penance.

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<v Speaker 1>So here we see Satan as the cause of our fall,

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<v Speaker 1>not Eve. So I think that's really interesting. We know

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<v Speaker 1>that after Cain kills Abel, Adam and Eve have another

418
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.279
<v Speaker 1>child's Seth, but in this book it says they had

419
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:58.759
<v Speaker 1>sixty more kids sixty sixty six to zero. Mm. God

420
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:04.799
<v Speaker 1>bless Eve. At one point, Adam is very ill and

421
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>he asks God why is he suffering and why does

422
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.599
<v Speaker 1>death exist at all? He sends Seth to the Garden

423
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.880
<v Speaker 1>of Eden to get holy oil from the Tree of

424
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Life to relieve his pain, but archangel Michael tells him

425
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:20.920
<v Speaker 1>no and explains the holy oil is being saved for

426
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:25.079
<v Speaker 1>the resurrection of humanity. After Adam dies, angels lived his

427
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.200
<v Speaker 1>soul to heaven, and God personally oversees his burial and

428
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 1>honor not given to any later biblical human. Eve foretells

429
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.279
<v Speaker 1>her own death shortly after Adam's passing and is buried

430
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 1>beside him, reinforcing their inseparable bond even after the fall.

431
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.640
<v Speaker 1>So that's just really interesting that we have a lot

432
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.160
<v Speaker 1>of women being blamed for stuff and that's left in

433
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the Bible, but these versions that don't blame the woman

434
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 1>are removed from the Bible. So now we're going to

435
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.920
<v Speaker 1>move into one of the most controversial banned Bible books,

436
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.359
<v Speaker 1>and that is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which talks

437
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:05.079
<v Speaker 1>about Jesus as a kid growing up and whooa boy

438
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.720
<v Speaker 1>is it heavy and intense. But first we're going to

439
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:13.839
<v Speaker 1>take our last break. We'll be right back. Hey, guys,

440
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.200
<v Speaker 1>if you're looking for a unique graduation gift or something

441
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 1>different to give your mom for Mother's Day, consider gifting

442
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.000
<v Speaker 1>them with a personalized numerology report based on their birth date.

443
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Each report averages around ten to twelve pages and includes

444
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.200
<v Speaker 1>information on their personal year, number, their attributes, and talents,

445
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:35.119
<v Speaker 1>and comes with four crystals that I handpick for each

446
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.759
<v Speaker 1>report based on the numbers and my intuition. I also

447
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.200
<v Speaker 1>include descriptions of each crystal. Or you could gift your

448
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.200
<v Speaker 1>loved one and yourself with an angelite bracelet. Since angelite

449
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.400
<v Speaker 1>is known to enhance telepathy between two people wearing angelite.

450
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.119
<v Speaker 1>It's a great way to keep the connection strong between

451
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.960
<v Speaker 1>you and your graduating loved one as they prepare to

452
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:58.799
<v Speaker 1>leave the nest. Each order comes with lots of free

453
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:01.599
<v Speaker 1>goodies too. Can we find this and my other offerings,

454
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 1>including signed copies of my books, over at Samantha Fay

455
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:11.559
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Welcome back. We're going to talk about the

456
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.359
<v Speaker 1>Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which dives into the years we

457
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.200
<v Speaker 1>never hear about the stretch between Jesus's verse and the

458
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>moment he shows up as a fully formed teacher in

459
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:27.599
<v Speaker 1>the canonical Gospels. This book follows Jesus from about age

460
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:31.680
<v Speaker 1>five to twelve, and honestly, it feels less like a

461
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Holy biography and more like a Marvel movie as we

462
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 1>watch a powerful kid slowly figure out who he is

463
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:43.319
<v Speaker 1>and how much damage and good his words can do.

464
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:48.119
<v Speaker 1>Early on, we see Jesus as this little child, and

465
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.319
<v Speaker 1>he knows he has this raw power, but he doesn't

466
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.160
<v Speaker 1>have emotional control yet. He knows he's different, and he

467
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:59.119
<v Speaker 1>doesn't always handle that well. One of the opening stories

468
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:02.359
<v Speaker 1>shows him for birds out of clay on the Sabbath.

469
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>When he's scolded, he simply claps his hands and says,

470
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>go take flight like living beings, and the little clay

471
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>birds fly away. But the awe people felt around him

472
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 1>from doing these things quickly turns to fear, though, because

473
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.920
<v Speaker 1>when people interfere with Jesus, he reacts in pretty scary ways.

474
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>For example, when a boy ruins these pools of water

475
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:31.720
<v Speaker 1>that Jesus is playing, and Jesus snaps and yells, you

476
00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:34.680
<v Speaker 1>will dry up like a tree and you will never

477
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>bear fruit, the text says, the child immediately withered away.

478
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:44.119
<v Speaker 1>This pattern shows up again and again in the early chapters.

479
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.440
<v Speaker 1>A boy bumps into Jesus while running through town, and

480
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:50.839
<v Speaker 1>Jesus turns and says, you will not complete your journey.

481
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.160
<v Speaker 1>The boy instantly collapses and dies Onlookers are horrified, asking

482
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.799
<v Speaker 1>where has this child come from that his every word

483
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>becomes a deed. Another time, Jesus is arguing with one

484
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 1>of his teachers and the teacher slaps him and Jesus

485
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.920
<v Speaker 1>kills him in return. Well, yeah, but can you imagine

486
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.440
<v Speaker 1>being five and seven and not understanding that you're this

487
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>powerful and having these emotional reactions and they become real?

488
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.000
<v Speaker 2>He does sound like a Marvel movie doesn't it.

489
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.480
<v Speaker 1>It does, but it must have been terrifying for little

490
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 1>Jesus too. The villagers are terrified, and so they complain

491
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.160
<v Speaker 1>to Joseph, and they say, teach him to bless and

492
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.200
<v Speaker 1>not to curse, because he is killing our children. That

493
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 1>line alone pretty much explains why church leaders wanted nothing

494
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:46.599
<v Speaker 1>to do with this text. If that sounds familiar, it should.

495
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>This is the same fear humans had of the Watchers,

496
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the same fear behind Prometheus or the Serpent. Teaching us

497
00:30:54.240 --> 00:31:00.000
<v Speaker 1>power without containment terrifies institutions, especially when it doesn't ask permission.

498
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.279
<v Speaker 1>But just like those other stories, this one isn't really

499
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:10.680
<v Speaker 1>about chaos. It's about evolution. After Joseph privately rebukes his son,

500
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.599
<v Speaker 1>the tone of the stories begins to shift. Jesus still

501
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 1>knows exactly who he is, but he starts choosing differently.

502
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.480
<v Speaker 1>When another child falls from a rooftop and dies, Jesus

503
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.160
<v Speaker 1>brings him back to life so that the boy can

504
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.559
<v Speaker 1>clear Jesus's name. He heals the blind, he restores those

505
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:32.319
<v Speaker 1>he previously cursed, although I'm not sure about the boy

506
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.079
<v Speaker 1>who withered, and I don't know. More stories from this

507
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.799
<v Speaker 1>book show Jesus' learning restraint. We also see his confidence

508
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.640
<v Speaker 1>shift from brute force to wisdom. When teachers try to

509
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:49.119
<v Speaker 1>instruct him, Jesus flips the script entirely, explaining that they

510
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 1>don't even understand the meaning of the alphabet. In one scene,

511
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:57.000
<v Speaker 1>he calmly dismantles their authority, not with violence but with knowledge.

512
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Towards the end of the Infancy Gospel, Jesus is healing

513
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>a man who injured his foot with an axe and

514
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>performing small, quiet miracles that help his family, like stretching

515
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:13.359
<v Speaker 1>a piece of wood that Joseph cut too short. The

516
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:17.440
<v Speaker 1>book ends where the canonical gospel finally picks up with

517
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:20.640
<v Speaker 1>the twelve year old Jesus in the temple, calmly amazing

518
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.400
<v Speaker 1>scholars with his understanding. By that point, he's no longer

519
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.000
<v Speaker 1>reactive or dangerous. He's still powerful, but there's intention behind it,

520
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>and that's really the heart of why this book made

521
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.119
<v Speaker 1>people uncomfortable. It doesn't show a perfectly serene savior from

522
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:41.039
<v Speaker 1>day one. It shows a divine child growing into himself,

523
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:46.279
<v Speaker 1>learning empathy, restraint, and responsibility the hard way. Maybe that

524
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.799
<v Speaker 1>felt a little too human. It doesn't show a flawless

525
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 1>savior dropped into the world fully formed. It shows a

526
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.720
<v Speaker 1>divine being growing into himself and yeah, making some terrifying

527
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.920
<v Speaker 1>mistakes along the way. But to me, reading this step

528
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:05.440
<v Speaker 1>made me feel closer to Jesus. And it also helped

529
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:09.240
<v Speaker 1>me to understand one thing in the Bible that I

530
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:12.480
<v Speaker 1>always paused at and went humhm is the wedding of

531
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.839
<v Speaker 1>Cana when they run out of wine and Mary walks

532
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:17.839
<v Speaker 1>up to her son and she's like, hey, Jesus, do

533
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:21.160
<v Speaker 1>your thing and Jesus is like, yeah, Mom, it's not

534
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.599
<v Speaker 1>my time. And she says, these people they're good people

535
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:26.160
<v Speaker 1>and they ran out of wine. Do your thing, and

536
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:28.920
<v Speaker 1>he's like, okay, fine, and he turns the water to wine.

537
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.599
<v Speaker 1>I think everyone knows that story, but I wonder if

538
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:35.599
<v Speaker 1>anyone has thought like I did, how did Mary know

539
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.359
<v Speaker 1>that Jesus could do that if he hadn't been doing

540
00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:45.000
<v Speaker 1>it all along? Did you ever one? On? Oh?

541
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Way, I certainly have and go back to that time

542
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that he sort of escaped mom and dad and went

543
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to the temple and was basically learning and teaching in

544
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>the temple when he was twelve, right, because that was

545
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:01.079
<v Speaker 2>a big turning point. Is also, of course, the bar

546
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 2>mits that time is for young Jewish voice. So it

547
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.640
<v Speaker 2>was a transition point that time in the temple, but

548
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.559
<v Speaker 2>clearly he held folks in all in what he did

549
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:15.559
<v Speaker 2>in that temple at twelve years old, he wasn't just

550
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:20.320
<v Speaker 2>fully formed poof and Mom suddenly has this intuition that

551
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:21.800
<v Speaker 2>he can turn water into wine at.

552
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Awaiting right exactly. And reading this also made me feel

553
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:31.400
<v Speaker 1>even closer to Mary. Poor Mary. I mean, let's just

554
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:33.719
<v Speaker 1>take a moment to think about her. Here, she is

555
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>this young virgin, she's been working in this temple for

556
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, she was dedicated to the temple. I think

557
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:43.519
<v Speaker 1>when she was nine or ten, she was very young.

558
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.760
<v Speaker 1>And then when she's we don't know, twelve or fourteen,

559
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>they're like, okay, you got to marry this guy, Joseph.

560
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Now some people say he's a widow to explain why

561
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Jesus had brothers. Hmm, we could do that another time,

562
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.320
<v Speaker 1>but I think Mary had other kids with Joseph, and

563
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:02.639
<v Speaker 1>I think that's fine. But anyway, then she gets pregnant

564
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:05.400
<v Speaker 1>as a virgin, and she's engaged to this older guy

565
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.519
<v Speaker 1>and she's terrified that he's going to think whatever, and

566
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:12.880
<v Speaker 1>then angels visit her. Angels visit Joseph, that's overwhelming. Hey, Mary,

567
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have the son of God. That's a lot.

568
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 1>Then she has this baby in a barn, let's not

569
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:22.320
<v Speaker 1>forget that. And then this baby has all these powers.

570
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine being the mother to little Jesus. It

571
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.400
<v Speaker 1>must have been so scary, and you must have felt

572
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.079
<v Speaker 1>so alone as a mom, not knowing what to do

573
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.679
<v Speaker 1>with this beautiful little child with these powers to turn

574
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 1>his words into actions immediately.

575
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.679
<v Speaker 2>Remember, though, you know, the way you're using the word

576
00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.400
<v Speaker 2>virgin is the way we think of the word meaning today,

577
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.800
<v Speaker 2>But it also meant just a young maiden, it meant

578
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:50.039
<v Speaker 2>someone who was not married, or it doesn't necessarily mean

579
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.639
<v Speaker 2>virginity in the way that we're describing it today. So

580
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:56.920
<v Speaker 2>you can look at it more metaphorically, Mary, situation, more

581
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:01.480
<v Speaker 2>metaphorically then physically, although certainly that's the traditional way of

582
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.079
<v Speaker 2>accepting Jesus's virgin birth. However, and yes, she had that

583
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:08.039
<v Speaker 2>baby in a barn by herself, with an old man

584
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.760
<v Speaker 2>husband and a donkey watching. I mean that alone is

585
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 2>a terrifying thought to me that she managed that, But

586
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.239
<v Speaker 2>somehow she did. But when they got back home to Nazareth,

587
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.719
<v Speaker 2>she did have support. Remember her mother Anna was there,

588
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.800
<v Speaker 2>her cousin Elizabeth was nearby, so she did have a

589
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.599
<v Speaker 2>group of women to help support her and raise this baby.

590
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 2>And not only did they raise him, but they raised

591
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.719
<v Speaker 2>his cousin John. And you know, the two of them

592
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.159
<v Speaker 2>were some weird boys.

593
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.159
<v Speaker 1>No I'm serious, Oh, I know that must have been

594
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:46.159
<v Speaker 1>quite the plate eate.

595
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Will you know?

596
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Think?

597
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, think about it, right, if you just strip away

598
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:57.719
<v Speaker 2>the incredible symbolism and the awe that most folks feel

599
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:01.719
<v Speaker 2>around this life story of Gas and his cousin John,

600
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.960
<v Speaker 2>and you just look at folks living in hovels in

601
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.920
<v Speaker 2>a village where other folks have said could anything ever

602
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:13.480
<v Speaker 2>come good from Nazareth? So you know it was not

603
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.519
<v Speaker 2>a good place. And here you've got these boys who

604
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:20.920
<v Speaker 2>are probably not only doing what normal kids do, but all.

605
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Playing in puddles and then drying up the kid who complains, well.

606
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.039
<v Speaker 2>There is that.

607
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I still can't picture. I can't picture Jesus like

608
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:34.920
<v Speaker 1>running home to help his dad muck out the stables

609
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and some kid bumps into him and he's like be

610
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 1>gone and the kid just disappears or dies. Can you

611
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.159
<v Speaker 1>imagine witnessing that he probably didn't do.

612
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:45.480
<v Speaker 2>That kind of stuff because he was probably a nice kid.

613
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.079
<v Speaker 1>It was I just read you the example where he

614
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:49.039
<v Speaker 1>did exactly that.

615
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:51.519
<v Speaker 2>I know that, and I'm not sure I believe it.

616
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to believe it, right, I don't want

617
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:58.159
<v Speaker 2>to believe it. But even if we take away the

618
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.280
<v Speaker 2>research and the theory that he spent time in India,

619
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.880
<v Speaker 2>he still probably had a pretty weird childhood in the

620
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.400
<v Speaker 2>village of Nazareth. And I know this is not going

621
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:12.840
<v Speaker 2>to be okay with some folks, but it's what keeps

622
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:17.000
<v Speaker 2>coming to mind. Is I think about Tabitha, the baby

623
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.480
<v Speaker 2>in Bewitched do things, and was it that cool and wonderful?

624
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.280
<v Speaker 2>And she was just kind of like, well, I didn't

625
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:25.840
<v Speaker 2>know that that would have British. He with us a

626
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.159
<v Speaker 2>little nose and things happened. Don't you wonder if Jesus

627
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:30.800
<v Speaker 2>had some of those same experiences.

628
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:35.199
<v Speaker 1>He must have, right, And maybe John the Baptist was

629
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.679
<v Speaker 1>like Tabitha's brother. What was his name, Adam, I don't remember,

630
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:45.719
<v Speaker 1>and he had Darren's boring personality, you know. Anyway, we digress, Okay.

631
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.840
<v Speaker 2>We do things. Let me just finish with this for

632
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:51.320
<v Speaker 2>a second. Bats in my mind We really do have,

633
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.719
<v Speaker 2>and have have for more than two thousand years, these

634
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>very divergent perspectives on who this man was, and is

635
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:07.079
<v Speaker 2>that human part of him and that spiritual part of him?

636
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 2>And there are places where the two come together in

637
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:11.880
<v Speaker 2>belief systems and places where they do not.

638
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you were raised as a Christian and we're

639
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:19.800
<v Speaker 1>going to church with your mom and dad, did you

640
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 1>pray to Jesus, to God or to marry?

641
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh? To go Oh you didn't have my mother. Oh no,

642
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:35.800
<v Speaker 2>we prayed to God. There was no reason for an

643
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.800
<v Speaker 2>intercessory person. That was what Catholics did.

644
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:41.920
<v Speaker 1>So we went right to God.

645
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Correct, we went right to God. We went straight to

646
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.000
<v Speaker 2>the source. Now, you know, we would say nice things

647
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.079
<v Speaker 2>to Jesus. We never ever ever pray to Mary. She

648
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:55.119
<v Speaker 2>was just kind of this chick in the background, right,

649
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.639
<v Speaker 2>and I use that word that phrase in quotes.

650
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:01.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, we were you can pray to Mary, you can

651
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.159
<v Speaker 1>pray to Jesus, you can pray to God. And then

652
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.039
<v Speaker 1>we were taught you got all these angels, we had

653
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:07.199
<v Speaker 1>all these people we could talk to.

654
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, we didn't and I.

655
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Always went to Mary.

656
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.360
<v Speaker 2>You were a good Catholic girl.

657
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, I just you know, she was like my mom,

658
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:17.519
<v Speaker 1>so I would tell her my problems and when I

659
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.199
<v Speaker 1>was saying praying on the beads, and that felt very comforting,

660
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:23.800
<v Speaker 1>and I always feel very close to her. I never

661
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.079
<v Speaker 1>really talked to Jesus because I'm like, I don't know,

662
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 1>he walked on water, and he's kind of mean in

663
00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot of scenes in the Bible, like the Persistent

664
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Widow that just breaks my heart, where she's like tugging

665
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 1>on his robes and he's basically batting her away like

666
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.960
<v Speaker 1>an annoying gnat until she's like persistent and then he

667
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.079
<v Speaker 1>finally is nice to her. But there's a lot of

668
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:46.480
<v Speaker 1>scenes where he's not like super Now, now, Samantha, tell

669
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:48.800
<v Speaker 1>me what's on your mind. I don't get that impression

670
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.239
<v Speaker 1>from the Jesus I know in the Bible, So you

671
00:40:52.280 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't grow up water skiing waki people people. Just so

672
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:03.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, it is ten am as we were recording

673
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.880
<v Speaker 1>this deb has not had a gen and tonic or

674
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:06.719
<v Speaker 1>a class of wine.

675
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:11.039
<v Speaker 2>No, I have not. I'm still drinking coffee.

676
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:16.480
<v Speaker 1>But reading this story makes me feel closer to him,

677
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:18.920
<v Speaker 1>like I could talk to him, you know.

678
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I guess my perspective on Jesus has always been very respectful.

679
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I've not always agreed with everything he said. I've had

680
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.679
<v Speaker 2>times where I really doubted and had lots of learning

681
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:34.119
<v Speaker 2>to do. It's probably still do. But I do maintain

682
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:38.880
<v Speaker 2>that some of the things he said, some of his teachings,

683
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.000
<v Speaker 2>most of them really are applicable to lessons that we

684
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:44.960
<v Speaker 2>continue to need to learn today. I have a lot

685
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.920
<v Speaker 2>of respect for him in that way, do I in

686
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.199
<v Speaker 2>terms of the time and the culture and what happened

687
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 2>to women and some of his followers know not so much.

688
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but there's I don't know a lot of the stories,

689
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the prodigal Son, that's that parable he uses. I always think, Jesus,

690
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:05.000
<v Speaker 1>maybe you were an only child because that story is

691
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>so annoying.

692
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:08.800
<v Speaker 2>It's probably one of my least favorite things.

693
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:10.760
<v Speaker 1>So yes, yeah, so I don't know. I just never

694
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:14.719
<v Speaker 1>really felt like super connected. But I think if they

695
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.480
<v Speaker 1>left this in, I think more people would feel like

696
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:22.760
<v Speaker 1>they could talk to him. So I help people listening

697
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:25.519
<v Speaker 1>read it and see if they come to the same

698
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.639
<v Speaker 1>conclusions as I do. All right, So, before we wrap up,

699
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.280
<v Speaker 1>we wanted to include not a missing book from the Bible,

700
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:38.079
<v Speaker 1>but a missing person, and that would be God's wife. Yeah,

701
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.400
<v Speaker 1>I know that sounds a lot like a Dan Brown

702
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:41.239
<v Speaker 1>plot twist.

703
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:43.880
<v Speaker 2>But it turns out God's wife, not Jesus's wife.

704
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.159
<v Speaker 1>God God's wife. Right, We've already talked about Jesus's wife,

705
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Mary Magdalene. Okay, go ahead, look at me breaking every

706
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.519
<v Speaker 1>catechism I was ever raised.

707
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:52.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm nervous talking to you.

708
00:42:54.960 --> 00:43:00.079
<v Speaker 1>I haven't been smoded yet, all right, But it do

709
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:02.960
<v Speaker 1>as turn out there's some evidence to this that God

710
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 1>did have a wife. In the ancient Near East, a

711
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:10.159
<v Speaker 1>goddess named Ashira was widely worshiped as a mother in

712
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:14.880
<v Speaker 1>fertility deity, and multiple inscriptions suggest she wasn't just hanging

713
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:18.840
<v Speaker 1>around with Yahweh, she was his partner. The biggest wait

714
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 1>wat moment comes from an eighth century BCE site called

715
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.679
<v Speaker 1>kukin Contillid Azrid, where archaeologists found pottery inscribed with a

716
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.159
<v Speaker 1>blessing that reads, I bless you by Yahweh of Samarah

717
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and by his Asherah. Other inscriptions in texts show Ashra

718
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.000
<v Speaker 1>being worshiped alongside Yahweh across Israel and even into Egypt,

719
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:49.519
<v Speaker 1>often invoked together for blessings of fertility. And prosperity. According

720
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:53.000
<v Speaker 1>to the Book of Kings, she was even housed inside

721
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.440
<v Speaker 1>the temple complex itself, complete with rituals in her honor.

722
00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Later Biblical editors clearly try to scrub out, but they

723
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:06.320
<v Speaker 1>didn't totally succeed. Their failure actually tells us something really important.

724
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.840
<v Speaker 1>For a long time, people liked the idea of a

725
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.280
<v Speaker 1>God who wasn't alone. Strict Monotheism didn't show up overnight,

726
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:17.519
<v Speaker 1>as we know, for much of Israel's early history, the

727
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:21.079
<v Speaker 1>divine may have been seen as a power couple. Even

728
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:24.440
<v Speaker 1>the Bible leaves bread combs of this awkward past. In

729
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the Book of Jeremiah, she's referred to as the Queen

730
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:30.480
<v Speaker 1>of Heaven. In the second Book of Kings, a king

731
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:35.559
<v Speaker 1>orders a full spiritual spring cleaning, removing ritual objects made

732
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:40.000
<v Speaker 1>quote for Baal and Asherah and all the starry host translation,

733
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 1>she had a reserve seat right next to Yahweh for

734
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:49.880
<v Speaker 1>a long time before reformers decided God needed to go solo. Eventually,

735
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:54.159
<v Speaker 1>Ashira gets downgraded from goddess to furniture. She's reduced to

736
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:57.719
<v Speaker 1>her cult symbol, a stylized tree or a wooden pull.

737
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:02.079
<v Speaker 1>Trees after all symbolized life and nourishment in arid regions,

738
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:04.000
<v Speaker 1>which is why they were tied to her in the

739
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.000
<v Speaker 1>first place. Some scholars even think Ashiera's Sacred Tree shows

740
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.800
<v Speaker 1>up one last time in disguise as the tree in

741
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the Garden of Eden, and some scholars say her other

742
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:20.199
<v Speaker 1>symbol is a serpent. The argument is that elite religious

743
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.440
<v Speaker 1>leaders folded goddess symbolism into the Fall story as a warning,

744
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.960
<v Speaker 1>turning a symbol of life into the source of humanity's downfall.

745
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.880
<v Speaker 1>And just like that, God became a bachelor and the

746
00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:35.800
<v Speaker 1>divine feminine quietly exited the story.

747
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, she may have in the story, but she probably

748
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:42.519
<v Speaker 2>didn't in the hearts of lots of people.

749
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:44.039
<v Speaker 1>That is true.

750
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've told this story on the podcast many

751
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:50.000
<v Speaker 2>times before, so I will not belabor it. But there

752
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:54.079
<v Speaker 2>is a reason that the serpent in the Garden of

753
00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:58.679
<v Speaker 2>Eden is such a symbol of negativity, and it comes

754
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:03.400
<v Speaker 2>from this story about this goddess and so many other

755
00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>goddesses from the Mesopotamian era and the eastern part of

756
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the Mediterranean and an Asia Minor if for example, you remember,

757
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.159
<v Speaker 2>and I'll post a picture of it on our Facebook page.

758
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:23.559
<v Speaker 2>After this episode airs. One of the oldest symbols we

759
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:29.199
<v Speaker 2>have is of a Minoan goddess holding in her hands

760
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a snake in each hand above her head. In many cultures,

761
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:37.000
<v Speaker 2>the snake is a symbol of transmutation and regeneration in

762
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:41.360
<v Speaker 2>our lives. And boy, that was not okay with the patriarchy,

763
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:46.079
<v Speaker 2>and therefore, of course the goddess his wife got erased

764
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:49.199
<v Speaker 2>from the story. Once again, I remind people, and I

765
00:46:49.239 --> 00:46:50.840
<v Speaker 2>know you and I talked about this other day as

766
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.079
<v Speaker 2>we were preparing for this episode. I still recommend When

767
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:57.440
<v Speaker 2>God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone, and the archaeology

768
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.239
<v Speaker 2>and anthropology work that she did to make that book

769
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 2>apen is just amazing. Yes, it's dry reading read it anyway,

770
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 2>so the.

771
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:08.960
<v Speaker 1>Aper I know. I told Deb I want to like

772
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.760
<v Speaker 1>a Penguin Puffin classic version of that book because it

773
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:14.480
<v Speaker 1>is so scholarly and dry.

774
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I love it. I love it.

775
00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:20.119
<v Speaker 1>I think overall, when you zoom out and you look

776
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.519
<v Speaker 1>at Enoch, the Watchers, the Gnostic Gospels, the Life of

777
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Adam and Eve, and the Infancy Gospel of Thomas together,

778
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:29.519
<v Speaker 1>you can see the problem they all created for the

779
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:33.480
<v Speaker 1>early Church. These books refuse to paint God angels or

780
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:38.199
<v Speaker 1>Jesus as static, flawless figures. They show power as something

781
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:43.039
<v Speaker 1>that can be misused. They show knowledge as destabilizing. They

782
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:47.679
<v Speaker 1>show divine beings learning, evolving, rebelling, failing and correcting. Course,

783
00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:53.239
<v Speaker 1>that's dangerous theology, because if angels can fall, if divine

784
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.639
<v Speaker 1>children can make mistakes, if salvation comes through understanding instead

785
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:02.639
<v Speaker 1>of obedience, then authority shifts inward. It moves away from

786
00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:08.760
<v Speaker 1>institutions and toward experience, gnoses and personal transformation. These texts

787
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:14.079
<v Speaker 1>don't say trust us, they say watch closely, learn, discern

788
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:16.719
<v Speaker 1>And that might be the real reason they were removed.

789
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Not because they were fake, because they weren't, not because

790
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:23.480
<v Speaker 1>they were fringe, but because they told stories where power

791
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:28.440
<v Speaker 1>wasn't safely contained. And we're becoming divine was a process,

792
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:33.039
<v Speaker 1>not a title, which raises the uncomfortable question they've always asked,

793
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.840
<v Speaker 1>even if the gods had to grow in wisdom, what

794
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:40.960
<v Speaker 1>does that say about us? Because the power the kingdom,

795
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:42.440
<v Speaker 1>it's within us.

796
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.039
<v Speaker 2>I have never been able to believe in a divine

797
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:51.400
<v Speaker 2>source that would have given us the power of thought

798
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 2>and reason and discernment without thinking that it was an

799
00:48:57.599 --> 00:48:59.840
<v Speaker 2>okay thing that we used it exactly.

800
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.559
<v Speaker 1>It's so hard to think about a god that would

801
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:05.920
<v Speaker 1>do that, that would keep us under his thumb like that.

802
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.639
<v Speaker 1>I think it's why so many people have struggled with

803
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:13.199
<v Speaker 1>faith and religion and all of that for so many centuries. Well,

804
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I hope this has given everyone lots to think about.

805
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:18.000
<v Speaker 1>We might get some interesting feedback on this one, folks.

806
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:21.480
<v Speaker 2>We would love to hear your thoughts. This is a

807
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:24.679
<v Speaker 2>lot to unwrap. They are centuries of research that have

808
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:28.280
<v Speaker 2>gone into this brief synopsis that Samantha and I have

809
00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:31.920
<v Speaker 2>given you today, and we invite you to really look

810
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:35.400
<v Speaker 2>at it with an open mind and question and think

811
00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:39.480
<v Speaker 2>about what really matters to you in your own beliefs

812
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:42.239
<v Speaker 2>and your own practices. So spend some time with it,

813
00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:43.039
<v Speaker 2>and we hope you do.

814
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for listening, everyone, be the light for

815
00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:49.239
<v Speaker 1>yourself and others.

816
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Take care everyone.

817
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Psychic Teachers, your podcast for

818
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:03.639
<v Speaker 1>sus seekers, light workers, mystics, and magical thinkers. If you

819
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:05.639
<v Speaker 1>like the show, please tell a friend or leave us

820
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:09.079
<v Speaker 1>a review wherever you listen to your podcast. For more information,

821
00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:12.760
<v Speaker 1>check out our Facebook page, Psychic Teachers or our websites.

822
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Samantha fay dot com and Debbowen dot com. Thanks for

823
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.960
<v Speaker 1>listening and have a great week.