WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Hey, friends, Andrew here, I hope you had a good 2 00:00:02.040 --> 00:00:04.120 Christmas and that you're having a good new start to 3 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:07.120 the new year, or maybe that it's a start to 4 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.160 the new year to be good on or something like that. 5 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.039 Things have been crazy busy for me at the moment. 6 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:16.000 I've been working on my book. I've been getting ready 7 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:19.120 for the new semester that just full of classes across 8 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:22.800 three different universities, and the Lord of the Rings class 9 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:26.719 that I'm leading through Patreon and Patia starts on Monday, 10 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:29.160 and so there is so much going on as that 11 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:31.559 it always seems to be well. For now, I'm going 12 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.479 to bring you the next of our Fellowship chats on 13 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:37.679 the Poetic Eda, or the Elder Eda as it's sometimes called, 14 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:40.560 And as a reminder, this was previously posted to the 15 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.679 Fellowship podcast, but I'm in the process of consolidating both 16 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.840 shows into this one, and after this conversation, we're going 17 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:48.880 to be up to speed on the edit chats up 18 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.719 to this point, likely with a new one coming next week. 19 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:53.880 And after that I'm going to be dropping in some 20 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:57.039 more of the Fellowship content whenever I have gaps over here. 21 00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:59.679 But first, as a quick reminder, I very much welcome 22 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.359 your over on Patreon, which gives you access to all 23 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:06.079 kinds of things as well as funding my ability just 24 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:08.920 keep doing the various things that I'm doing, which I 25 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:11.719 really could not do without patron support. For just five 26 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.680 dollars a month, you get full discord access, early in 27 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.680 ad free episodes of Mythic Mind, and open invitation to 28 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:20.359 our fellowship chats, and the ability to post to our 29 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.439 substack or podcast feed. For ten dollars a month, you 30 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:25.840 also have access to all the content from the Fiction 31 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.000 and Philosophy of CS Lewis Course, which is twenty something 32 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:32.959 videos on almost all of Lewis's fiction and more, and 33 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.560 that's also available through the podcast feed as well. When 34 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:38.000 you become a patron at Tier two. Now at the 35 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.120 third tier that is twenty five dollars a month, you 36 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.159 can join the live Lord of the Ring study that's 37 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:44.799 beginning January fifth, and if you're listening to this late, 38 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.239 you're still welcome to join us at any time. Each 39 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.400 week includes two videos, one shorter that provides some kind 40 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:56.280 of philosophical, theological, literary, biographical, or low context. It's kind 41 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.480 of the wildcard video just hits on some angle that 42 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.159 is directly related to that reading, and then you also 43 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:04.280 have one longer video later in the week that serves 44 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:06.760 as a companion to the reading. We also have weekly 45 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:09.919 live meetings and an ongoing Discord channel. Oh and all 46 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:13.000 patrons of any level can join the Discord channel this time. 47 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.599 And so if you just want to follow along with 48 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.840 us and talk in the Discord channel, then you can 49 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:22.400 feel free to subscribe at a lower level. I hope 50 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.400 to see you there, but for now, I hope that 51 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:35.560 you enjoy this conversation on the poetic da Hello and 52 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:38.400 welcome to the Mythic Mind Fellowship podcast. I'm your host, 53 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:50.199 Andrew Snyder, and I warmly welcome you around our heart. Now, 54 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:51.520 before we get started, I want to let you know 55 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.319 about some things. So I've decided that, at least for 56 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:57.039 the moment, I don't really have very good justification for 57 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.599 having two separate Mythic Mind podcast feeds and say earliest 58 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:02.560 on the public level, and so I'm good to start 59 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.800 to move some content from here over to the main 60 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.800 show that is the Mythic Mind Legacy Podcast. Now, the 61 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.759 odds are pretty high that if you sub to the 62 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:12.759 Fellowship show, you already sub to the Legacy show as well, 63 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:14.719 but make sure that you do. If that's not already 64 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.080 the case, and if you're currently listening to this on 65 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:21.199 the Legacy Podcast, then just keep doing what you're doing now. 66 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:23.560 I do have some ideas for the Fellowship Show down 67 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.759 the Road, and so don't delete it from your library, 68 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.280 but you also should not expect it to be updated 69 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:32.000 for a while. So again, for the foreseeable future, you 70 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.199 can expect everything to come through one podcast, that is 71 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.879 the Mythic Mind Legacy Podcast. Now for our monthly patron Chat, 72 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:42.199 we're continuing to work through the poetic edit together, and 73 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:44.919 I should begin by apologizing for my part in this, 74 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.240 as I'm still coming off of a cold that hit 75 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.439 my lungs pretty hard and so I was not at 76 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:52.919 my a game during this conversation, resulting in more mispronunciations 77 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:56.240 than is typical, even of some fairly familiar terms. I 78 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:58.319 just had a hard time get some words out and 79 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:00.319 I cough into the mic a few times, and I 80 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.719 do apologize for that, but without aside, let's go ahead 81 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:12.479 and get to it, all right, Welcome back to our 82 00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:15.840 Mythic Mind patron chats as we deal with the poetic 83 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.560 EDA continue to work through that piece by piece, I'm 84 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:22.000 gonna hit the next four sections this round now as 85 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.399 a reminder, we are all amateurs here kind of going 86 00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:28.800 down the rapids with our homemade rafts, and but it's 87 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:30.360 I think it's been a good run so far, and 88 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.279 I'm really joining the conversations that are coming out of this. 89 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.560 But before we get into the main topic, I want 90 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:40.160 us to start just going around each time and filling 91 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.079 each other in, filling the listeners in on whatever we 92 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.360 have going on. And so if we're making something, if 93 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.600 we're just reading something, thinking about something, listening to something, 94 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.560 just something that's going on in your life, just give 95 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:55.319 some kind of update, Josh, what do you have for us? 96 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:01.000 Yeah, So I'm Josh. I'm a student at Memorial College 97 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:04.319 right now, actually in the Masters of Arts Great Books programs. 98 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:07.519 So basically in the class I'm in right now, we're 99 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.199 reading either part of or an entire like great text 100 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.319 a week. Most of those are short enough where it's 101 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.920 not too crazy to read in a week, but basically 102 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.240 writing on those like roughly once a week and then 103 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.680 for a final paper doing something with trying to do 104 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:26.639 something with kind of like just like the Mystery of 105 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.399 Providence as a theme in Oedipus Rex right now, So 106 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:34.240 just kind of consulting some scholarship and figuring out more 107 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:36.839 specifically what direction to go in that, like what part 108 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.600 of the text I'm going to talk about with that, 109 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.160 and then also working on a seven Ecumenical Councils class 110 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.319 that I'm working with my pastor on that to teach 111 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.439 it at our church to mostly only people who don't 112 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:54.319 really even know what like the Patristic era of church 113 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.360 history is. So the challenge of being like, how you know, 114 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.160 how specific or how general to go with that. So 115 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.040 basically that's what I'm working on right now. 116 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:06.519 Look, it's fantastic, that's definitely much needed. I used to 117 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:10.519 teach at a classical Christian high school and for I 118 00:06:10.519 --> 00:06:14.160 think it was tenth maybe eleventh grade, eleventh grade, it 119 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.560 was systematic theology. And basically the way I did that 120 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.720 was by primarily focusing on the Ecumenical Councils to really 121 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.959 get at sort of the way court you know, mere Christianity, 122 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.920 essential Christian orthodoxy, how the ideas came together and you know, 123 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.160 the heresies that were dealt with and the way that 124 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.720 they present themselves today in ways that you know, the 125 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.079 lay person very often is even going to recognize. And 126 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.439 so I think that dealing with that early church period, 127 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.920 it's just it's so important and so ever applicable. So 128 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.759 that's that's fantastic that you're doing that. 129 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:48.240 Absolutely excited about it. 130 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:52.040 Yeah, good, Jase. What's something you have going on? 131 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.879 Yeah? Right now, I'm back up in the Dallas area 132 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:58.639 with my family, So I brought a bunch of books 133 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.399 up to read. We have a guy from my church 134 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:07.240 found out that I was. I was taking these classes 135 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.560 and I was reading a lot of stuff, and he 136 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.959 invited me to I guess him. Buddies have met for 137 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.079 twenty years in a group called like the I guess 138 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:21.040 it's the Anatheo. So all right, yeah, but it's a 139 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:23.480 they go through like a book of months. So this 140 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.360 next book is The Way of All Flash by Samuel Butler, 141 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:27.680 which I had never heard of. 142 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:28.600 But we'll see. 143 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:30.600 So working through that one and then I'm going to 144 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.120 jump into the Aliad shortly. 145 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:39.279 Yeah, you you definitely need to produce something out there, 146 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:41.360 make a podcast. You've been reading a lot of really 147 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:45.639 good stuff recently. Yeah, even even beyond this uff we've 148 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:47.839 been doing together. So that's that's fantastic that you've been 149 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:53.040 doing all that. Yeah, and then on my end, I 150 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:56.439 did just get confirmation that next week I should get 151 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.639 an official offer for a book deal, so hopefully we 152 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.959 get my book out there in the near future. So 153 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:06.720 that's that's exciting. And then I've been making some progress 154 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.920 on in the screenplay that I've been invited to collaborate on, 155 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:14.040 which is just awesome that like, that's not something even 156 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:16.680 a year ago was even on my radar. And then 157 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:20.199 suddenly I get this invitation and you know, I've talked 158 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:22.199 about that some in the discords. You put more information, 159 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:27.959 become a patron, but otherwise definitely excited about the potential 160 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.360 that's that's there. Just you never know where the road's 161 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.720 going to take you. All right, Well, I guess we 162 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:38.879 can go ahead and dive into this, starting with let 163 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:44.440 see him Near's poem, all right, so I will read 164 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.360 at least some of the introduction, maybe all of it 165 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.080 provided by Larrington here, so that way we all have 166 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:53.039 a general sense of what it is that we're dealing with. 167 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:58.679 And so Humanar's poem or he Miskvida is a badly 168 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.360 preserved is badly preserved in the manuscript but we can 169 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.639 fill in the gaps from Snorri Snorri Stroulsen, who give 170 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:06.480 us the proseetta. And so this is a difficult poem 171 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:09.440 or difficult poem, yeah, text to work with. I was 172 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.159 listening to Jack Crawford talk about this. Jack Crawford, who's 173 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.399 an Old Norse specialist, and he has his own translation 174 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:19.559 of the Atom, and he even said that this is 175 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.080 just a notoriously difficult text to work together because it's 176 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.879 it's likely that we have some fragments. We have sections 177 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.519 of like the story from an old time mixed in 178 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.559 with some updates, and so it's not entirely consistent. It 179 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.039 kind of seems like some of the characters were swept 180 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:38.320 out or were swapped out, and so you know Thor 181 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.960 his companion in the story, is Tear, but it kind 182 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:44.799 of seems like maybe it was Loki at some point, 183 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.240 maybe somebody else. And so this just across the border. 184 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.120 It's difficult to figure out exactly what is that we're 185 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.320 dealing with. But the gods decide to have a feast 186 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.480 and they compel the giant eg gear to prepare it. 187 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.679 This may reflect the Scandinavian royal practices in which the 188 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:02.240 king enforces his authority on its subordinates by visiting their 189 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:06.000 homes and demanding to be feasted. Cunningly, Egger demands an 190 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:08.679 enormous cauldron in Whish to brew beer for the feast. 191 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.639 This can only be obtained with great danger from the 192 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.759 giant him here Tier, who was probably not the original 193 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:17.759 protagonist of the poem, and Thor set off to obtain 194 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:21.440 the cauldron, and like most encounters between Thor and the giants, 195 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.480 the adventure turns into a trial of strength. And so 196 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.600 that's really the gist of the story, so that they're 197 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:31.679 going off to get this giant beer cauldron from this giant. 198 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:36.879 So what do we think about this text? 199 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:39.639 I think you were definitely it made me feel a 200 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.000 lot better when you kind of started this off to 201 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:45.440 say that this would be a difficult thing to because I 202 00:10:45.440 --> 00:10:47.120 felt like I had a lot more to say about 203 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:50.799 the first probably two or three texts within the poet. 204 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:51.679 They eat itself. 205 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.200 But it almost seems like, I guess like there's the 206 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.039 kind of this recurring theme in Norse mythology of kind 207 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.919 of it's like this right of the strongest, and it 208 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:04.840 seems like that's probably in a sense like what's what's 209 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:07.240 being shown like just like with like I guess like 210 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:10.480 Thor's arc, if anything in this in this text. 211 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:12.000 I'm exactly sure. 212 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:15.360 But beyond that, maybe like hospitality, I guess in some 213 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:17.320 ways you could like argue that would be a theme 214 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.240 in some ways. But yeah, other than that, it's kind 215 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:24.360 of hard to pin down exactly like any other like 216 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.159 higher purpose in a sense. 217 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.639 Yeah, we do see that even the humor, even he 218 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.159 this this giant that they came to get the cultron from, 219 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.879 show some degree of hospitality to Thor and tear here 220 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.240 in that Thor like basically eat all this stuff, like 221 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.039 all of its animals, and so then they have to 222 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.000 go fishing in order to get more food. But then 223 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:51.279 even that turns into essentially contest of strength in the 224 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.879 the game that they're hunting. I don't know, Chase, do 225 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:56.159 you have anything to say about this poem? 226 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:02.080 Yeah, I will say I liked the the vocabulary for 227 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:10.799 a beard the cheek forest. I think that's I I 228 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.120 thought it was interesting where it talked about like the 229 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:15.840 giant is walking across the floor like he saw that 230 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.639 they so like they recognize who Thor is that slays 231 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:28.279 the giants and a lot of battles. Yeah, it's hard 232 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.200 to kind of tell exactly what it is like. At 233 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.360 the end, it almost seems like it's like a caper, 234 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:35.480 almost like they just came and stole like the butt, 235 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:37.039 and he's running out with it and he has to 236 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:38.679 turn around and kill all the giants. 237 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.080 I don't know, right, despite the fact that he wanted, 238 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:42.879 you know, he wanted the fair square, and so it 239 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:48.399 was given to him. And there's some female giant who 240 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.120 helps him by telling him. So, okay, to backtrack a 241 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:56.600 little bit. So Hemyr and Thor are fishing together because 242 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:58.519 I don't know, I guess they're buddies now, I don't know, 243 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:03.480 so he mayor the giant. He catches two whales, which 244 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:05.840 I mean, that's pretty impressive to go fishing and to 245 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.759 catch a couple of whales. And then Thor goes fishing 246 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:15.919 and he catches the midguard serpent urban gunder, you know, 247 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.600 the serpent that stretches across the entire world. So that's 248 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:23.799 what Thor catches. And in the pros added there's a 249 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:25.919 version of the story that has some more details in it. 250 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.919 When he pulls up the midguard serpent and he's about 251 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.679 to like smash it with his hammer, and then he 252 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.600 here he cuts the line because he gets scared about 253 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.879 what's going on, so he cuts the line, which then 254 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.200 causes the serpent to go back into the water and 255 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.559 kind of go back down to the depths where he lives. 256 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:44.759 And then Thor gets really mad at him here and 257 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:47.840 throws him overboard and essentially kills him in this story, 258 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:53.519 in the Snory's version of the story, And of course 259 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:56.639 Thor to get angry about that, because the Midguard serpent 260 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.279 is what's going to kill Thor at Ragnarok, and so, 261 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:02.799 you know, Thor, I guess thought maybe he had a 262 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:06.039 chance at fighting fate at this point, but of course 263 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:09.000 that's not how fate works. That's kind of an interesting factor, 264 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.639 and that's something that I guess I appreciate about a 265 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:14.879 lot of these Norse tales. This is especially true of 266 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:18.039 odin that he's always going about trying to fight fate. 267 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.320 You know, he's trying to discover something about Ragnarok. We've 268 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.600 seen that in several of the texts that we've been 269 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:24.360 studying so far, where he wants some wisdom, some power 270 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.559 in order to fight the fate that awaits him. His 271 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.799 inevitable death at the Twilight of the Gods during Ragnarok. 272 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.240 In fact, it's kind of interesting, you know. I recently, 273 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.879 in teaching Beowulf to my students on campus, when we 274 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.279 got to the section with Bewolf and unforth, who are 275 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.279 you fighting against each other? With their little debate, I 276 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.519 brought in Harvard's song, which is low key in Odin 277 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.799 their debate. Brought them as a parallel, and you know, 278 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:55.519 I got into a little bit more and thora a 279 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.000 couple of times kind of chies Odin for always starring 280 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.759 up conflicts, and that's because Odin does that in order 281 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.679 to get great warriors to fight each other, so the 282 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.159 way they die, that way he can bolster his ranks, 283 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.840 you know, at Ragnarok. And so the gods, especially Odin, 284 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.399 they're they're always trying to fight against this fate, this 285 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.799 inevitable doom that's awaiting them. But of course they can't 286 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.759 do that, because one thing that's unique about the North 287 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:25.039 Mythos that even the gods are subject to fate and 288 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.480 they simply can't escape that. I just I don't find 289 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.600 that find that interesting. And also there's this mention that 290 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:38.759 the Midguard serpent is the brother of the wolf, which 291 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.519 according to the notes here is Fenrier, who is the 292 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:46.559 wolf that's going to kill Odin, And so Fenrier and 293 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.000 the Midguard Serpent are siblings, which I'm not quite sure 294 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.960 how that works. 295 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:54.320 Do you know that history behind that? 296 00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:00.240 Not entirely, especially since I know that Fenrier is actually 297 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:03.200 Loki's child. 298 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:08.399 They actually all are like so Orman Gander, Fenry or 299 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.960 and then Hell like the goddess of the underworld. 300 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.120 Like basically I think this is in the prose Ead 301 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:16.919 as well. 302 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.240 It's certainly in other sources, but there's a story where 303 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.279 basically Loki has an affair with the Giantess and Gribbida, 304 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.639 and like these three children are kind of like these 305 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:34.519 abominable like a cursed offspring from this this sort of 306 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:38.279 relationship with the Giantess, and that like results in these 307 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:43.000 three beings that are like technically his children. But then 308 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:44.759 you know, of course they all have like some sort 309 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:49.480 of eschatological significance as well, as you had mentioned previously, 310 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.960 especially with Jorman Gonder. So that's like the sourcing of 311 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.000 all of these. It's certainly in like the in like 312 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.879 what I've read, I'm not sure if there's any like 313 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.879 conflicting uh, any like primary sources that have like conflicting 314 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:04.319 narratives of that, but that's like the primary one I've seen. 315 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:10.920 That's it's interesting. I don't really have a much to 316 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.599 work with this, but the first parallel that comes to 317 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:22.319 my mind is in Paradise Lost, Milton has Satan basically 318 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.680 relate himself to his own pride, and that gives birth 319 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.440 to this chaos monstrosity that is at the gates of Hell. 320 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:35.400 And I don't know, I almost I think of some 321 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:40.640 kind of parallelism here of this chaos, this unnatural union. 322 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:47.079 You know. Even Loki he's kind of amorphous sexually, like 323 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.240 sometimes he even takes the role of a female and 324 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.640 actually gives birth to things himself. So this is all 325 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.839 kinds of like chaos imagery wrapped up in the very 326 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.720 person of Loki. I really don't have any point to 327 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.480 make with any of this, but it's just uh, but 328 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:03.839 I guess that's the point of chaos. 329 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.960 I don't know, Yeah, that's an interesting parallel. 330 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.960 I just have to think about that more before i'd 331 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.319 commented on it, but I definitely, uh, it's an interesting 332 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.799 peril with like Paradise Loss there, So I'm going to 333 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:15.799 look into that one more. 334 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:18.640 Yeah, I definitely anything worked out on that. 335 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.599 It's just interesting that like through his affair there's like 336 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:28.039 two god ending basically monsters in your role in the 337 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:29.519 world Serpent taken out. 338 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:37.640 In H four, Right, I don't know what happens to 339 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.799 lookia Rackenrock. Does he die? Okay, I know not all 340 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.119 the gods die. 341 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:46.359 I'm trying to remember like if he's. 342 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:50.559 I believe, yeah, he like basically ends up in like 343 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.759 hell or the underworld. But yeah, before I want to 344 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:55.599 make that coy and I would definitely have to like 345 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.240 go lookt into that. But that's I read like a 346 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.799 lot of like these like both both Greek like Greco 347 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.519 Roman like Norse mythology. Ever, like the stories and like 348 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.640 different like forms and like the books is like a teenager, 349 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:10.960 but even those you're never sure like how much some 350 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.119 like modern fantasy authors is kind of like taking like 351 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:18.519 creative freedom and just like riffing off of the iris sources. 352 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.400 So yeah, I'm like, I'm I'm trying to remember, like 353 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:24.039 that was like different in different versions and like but yeah, 354 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.559 I'm not. 355 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:25.680 Exactly sure which. 356 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:30.119 Like what like the original U or the really the 357 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:34.119 canonical per se fate of like Loki would be in that. 358 00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.400 I know, like obviously like Balder is like ripborn and 359 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:40.400 that's kind of like the big like almost like crystological 360 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:43.240 symbol in a sense with with a lot of this. 361 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.599 But yeah, I'm pretty sure that Loki does does like 362 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.720 kind of like end up in the underworld basically. 363 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:52.559 Yeah, I just did a quick Google search and says, 364 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:57.519 LOOKI dies in battle with heim dollar Pindal in Ragnarok, 365 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:02.079 and so yeah, so he dies in battle. Although it 366 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.400 is interesting and this comes this is reference in one 367 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:06.880 of the other texts that we look at. The actually 368 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:11.480 the next text that LOOKI is the one who keeps 369 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.839 Balder from coming back basically shortly after he dies. But 370 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.799 I guess we can get back to that in a 371 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.640 little bit, right And then and Chase mentioned that at 372 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:26.200 the ending it's a little bit haphazard because so they 373 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:29.880 do this swimming or this not swimming competition that's Beywolf. 374 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.640 They do this fishing competition. And then you know, Thor 375 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.720 is bragging about how great he is, and the Giant says, no, 376 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:39.920 you're not. If you were that you know, great and 377 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.440 that strong, you could break this special goblet of mind. 378 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:48.200 This chalice, which is like unbreakable. But then this giantess 379 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.960 for some reason helps Thor out by telling him that 380 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.680 he can't break it if he breaks it on Humer's head. 381 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.240 So he breaks it on his head, and then he's 382 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.599 allowed to take the cauldron. But then apparently he's a 383 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:06.079 deal with giants nonetheless, excuse me, and then his Thor's 384 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.240 goat collapsed because of a curse from Loki, who is 385 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.200 just now mentioned for the first time of this poem, 386 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.519 which again kind of hints that there are some fragments 387 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.039 of older versions of the story that are thrown in here. 388 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.160 But it's interesting that so Odin, you know, he has 389 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.640 these goats that you know, pull them around, which you know, 390 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.480 they show up very annoyingly. That in the Marvel movie 391 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:34.079 the latest one to Thor hit his goats, and these 392 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.359 are special goats and you can kill them and even 393 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.160 eat them, and then they resurrect the next day. But 394 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:44.920 apparently another version of the story, Loki say, get somebody 395 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:49.200 to break the bone and eat the marrow out, which 396 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.559 then causes the the goat to be lain when it resurrects, 397 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.440 And so that's how we get to this cursed goat 398 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.119 that collapses half dead all of a sudden. I don't know, 399 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:10.039 all right, anything else to say about Humor's poem. 400 00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:14.039 This is a super like random off the wall like 401 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.400