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<v Speaker 1>This is Later with Lee Matthews, The Lee Matthews Podcast

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<v Speaker 1>More what You Hear Weekday Afternoon's on the Drive.

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<v Speaker 2>Doug Broad is a former editor in chief of Spin

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<v Speaker 2>and TV Guide magazines as well. He is author of

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<v Speaker 2>a book about how Kiss Cheap Trick, Airsmith and Stars

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<v Speaker 2>remade Rock and Roll, also editor for Entertainment Weekly and

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<v Speaker 2>many other publications. She's got a new book out, Born

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<v Speaker 2>with a Tale, The Devilish Life and Wicked Times of

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<v Speaker 2>Anton Zandor love Ay. Doug Broad is with us, Doug,

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<v Speaker 2>did I pronounce that name? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>You did? Indeed?

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you? Thank you?

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>You see, the thing is, everybody's heard of Alistair Crowley.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if a lot of people heard of

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<v Speaker 2>this guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm not sure. I think many people have. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>he started the Church of Satan in April nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 3>six from his home in San Francisco, and it wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>a devil worship cult. It was more of a philosophy

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<v Speaker 3>of indulgence, of unleashing man's carnal instinct. And he got

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of followers. A lot of people were kind

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<v Speaker 3>of into his ideas, his philosophies. He wrote a book

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<v Speaker 3>the Satanic Bible in nineteen sixty nine that went on

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<v Speaker 3>to sell over a million copies. He appeared on Johnny

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<v Speaker 3>Carson Steve Allen's show. He was on the cover of

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<v Speaker 3>Look magazine back in the day. So he was quite,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the visible celebrity in the sixties and seventies.

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<v Speaker 2>This was also a time when the sensibilities of the

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<v Speaker 2>United States were starting to look closer at, shall we say,

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<v Speaker 2>alternative lifestyles.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, you know, he was kind of a response to

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of flower power, hippie freedom of the day.

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<v Speaker 3>He was more of a law and order character, sort

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<v Speaker 3>of verging on libertarianism. But there were also a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of other ideas blooming at the time, like este and

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<v Speaker 3>other self empowerment philosophies. But his was kind of leavened

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<v Speaker 3>with a sense of humor. There was always a humorous

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<v Speaker 3>aspect to what he was doing and what he was extolling.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, there also was a real seriousness to

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<v Speaker 3>it as well. I mean, he had rituals in his

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<v Speaker 3>house that were kind of like psychodramas that could benefit

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<v Speaker 3>the participants, could rid them of their sexual hang ups,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, help them romantically and financially. It was basically

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<v Speaker 3>giving people self confident and self empowerment.

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<v Speaker 2>The devilish life and wicked times of Anton Sandor Levy

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<v Speaker 2>born with a Tale as the name of the book,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was the founder of the Church of Satan.

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<v Speaker 2>Doug Broad is the author who's written all about it. So,

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<v Speaker 2>were there black masses and because there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot in Satanism that I see, it's more

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<v Speaker 2>anti Catholicism than it is Satanism.

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<v Speaker 3>That the case could be made. It was also anti

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<v Speaker 3>any other religion, to be honest with you, it was

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<v Speaker 3>it was the idea that that all of that was fantasy.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's a belief that many people have that a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of religions are fantasy. And this was looking at

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<v Speaker 3>man as his own god, and the only one man

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<v Speaker 3>had to anstitute was himself. He wasn't, you know, Levey

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<v Speaker 3>didn't believe in guilt. It's like, people shouldn't feel guilty

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<v Speaker 3>about stuff that they like as long as consenting adults,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, are involved. What's the what's the problem. There's

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<v Speaker 3>no problem. So yeah, So his his his idea of

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<v Speaker 3>a religion was not so much to counter the other ones.

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<v Speaker 3>It was just to promote man as his own god.

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<v Speaker 2>So did he embrace the Satanism and the and the

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<v Speaker 2>pentagrams and all that just to get the attention that

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<v Speaker 2>he was looking for.

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<v Speaker 3>That's exactly what he did. There was no devil worship involved.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't worship Satan. There was no They worshiped themselves

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<v Speaker 3>if anything, And the idea of bringing Satan into the

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<v Speaker 3>mix is more of a metaphor. Like he was, he

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<v Speaker 3>was seen, He represented the adversary, and it was it

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<v Speaker 3>was a way to grab at first, it was a

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<v Speaker 3>way to grab people's attention.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds a little more like Aristotelean humanism than it does

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<v Speaker 2>a Satanism.

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<v Speaker 3>That that the case could be made as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, Doug Brown is with us, and the book that

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<v Speaker 2>he has written is born with a tale of the

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<v Speaker 2>devilish life and wicked times of Anton Sandor Leavey, founder

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<v Speaker 2>of the Church of Satan. What were some of those

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<v Speaker 2>wicked times?

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<v Speaker 3>I guess you could say having a pet lion in

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<v Speaker 3>his home was fairly wicked. Yeah, So in the sixties

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<v Speaker 3>he had a pet lion that lived in a cage

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<v Speaker 3>in his backyard and he sometimes brought the lion out

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<v Speaker 3>to the grocery store. At the time, San Francisco didn't

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<v Speaker 3>have any laws, you know, preventing people from having big

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<v Speaker 3>game animals in their houses. But eventually neighbors complained about

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<v Speaker 3>the roaring, and you know, the lion became unruly on

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<v Speaker 3>a number of occasions, so he had to give it up.

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<v Speaker 3>But no, I mean, this guy lived, He lived the life.

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<v Speaker 3>He he was obsessed with with all of these topics,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the occult and witchcraft and monsters and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>sideshow performers. He had a very kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>bizarre taste and aesthetic, and you know, he lived like

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<v Speaker 3>I say in the book, he lived like Gomez Adams

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<v Speaker 3>and Herman Munster. They had a black house and he,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, he dressed them. You know, he dressed the part.

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<v Speaker 3>He had the bald head and the Van Dyke beard,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, they lived like one of these TV shows.

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<v Speaker 3>But in real life.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about the book Born with a Tale, the

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<v Speaker 2>Devilish Life and Wicked Times of Anton Sandor Levy and

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<v Speaker 2>Doug Broad is the author. So this guy also had

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<v Speaker 2>some musical talent. Was he maybe a frustrated musician.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think he was a frustrated musician. He actually

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<v Speaker 3>He was a keyboard player, and he played the organ,

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<v Speaker 3>he played the calliop He he he claimed to have

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<v Speaker 3>worked in carnivals and and circuses, uh, playing these instruments.

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<v Speaker 3>But he also, you know, played lounges all over San Francisco,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know there he was in newspaper ads as uh,

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<v Speaker 3>San Francisco's most unique organist. But he, you know, he

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<v Speaker 3>he had he had keyboards, and he had a bank

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<v Speaker 3>of keyboards in his house. And he would entertain his

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<v Speaker 3>guests all the time by playing, you know, for hours.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, he knew every He knew pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>every ten pan alley song ever recorded. And he was

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<v Speaker 3>quite the prodigy.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're talking about anton Zandor Levy. Born with the

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<v Speaker 2>Tail is the book The Devilish Life and Wicked Times

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<v Speaker 2>of Anton Zandor Levy Doug Broad. He also attracted some celebrity.

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<v Speaker 2>Were they followers or just clingers on or just people

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<v Speaker 2>he hung out.

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<v Speaker 3>With well early on, right after the church sort of

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<v Speaker 3>came to prominence. In nineteen sixty seven, Jane Mansfield, the

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<v Speaker 3>Hollywood star, kind of glombed onto him. I think she

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<v Speaker 3>saw a publicity opportunity, as did he, And for a

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<v Speaker 3>few months they were linked in the press and he

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<v Speaker 3>claims they were romantic. She does not. She disputed that,

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<v Speaker 3>but this was actually right, you know, not long before

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<v Speaker 3>she was killed in a car accident. Yeah. And then

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<v Speaker 3>later on, Sammy Davis Junior in nineteen seventy three had

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<v Speaker 3>a brief sort of dalliance with the church and he

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<v Speaker 3>was actually made an honorary world in the Church of Satan.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think his interest was probably more genuine. He

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Sammy was into a lot of stuff. He

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<v Speaker 3>was very experimental all his life, and this is one

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<v Speaker 3>thing that he thought was kind of the cool thing

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<v Speaker 3>to pursue.

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<v Speaker 2>Doug Broad He's the author of Born with a Tale,

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<v Speaker 2>The Devilish Life and Wicked Times of Anton Sandor Levey.

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<v Speaker 2>The books out everywhere you get books. And thanks for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us today, Doug Broad.

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<v Speaker 3>My pleasure, Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to Later with Lee Matthews, the Lee

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<v Speaker 1>Matthews Podcast, and remember to listen to The Drive Live

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<v Speaker 1>weekday afternoons from five to seven and Iheartsmedia Presentation