Speaker 1: This is Later with Lee Matthews, The Lee Matthews Podcast
Speaker 1: More what You Hear Weekday Afternoon's on the Drive.
Speaker 2: Doug Broad is a former editor in chief of Spin
Speaker 2: and TV Guide magazines as well. He is author of
Speaker 2: a book about how Kiss Cheap Trick, Airsmith and Stars
Speaker 2: remade Rock and Roll, also editor for Entertainment Weekly and
Speaker 2: many other publications. She's got a new book out, Born
Speaker 2: with a Tale, The Devilish Life and Wicked Times of
Speaker 2: Anton Zandor love Ay. Doug Broad is with us, Doug,
Speaker 2: did I pronounce that name? Right?
Speaker 3: You did? Indeed?
Speaker 2: Thank you? Thank you?
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: You see, the thing is, everybody's heard of Alistair Crowley.
Speaker 2: I don't know if a lot of people heard of
Speaker 2: this guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure. I think many people have. You know,
Speaker 3: he started the Church of Satan in April nineteen sixty
Speaker 3: six from his home in San Francisco, and it wasn't
Speaker 3: a devil worship cult. It was more of a philosophy
Speaker 3: of indulgence, of unleashing man's carnal instinct. And he got
Speaker 3: a lot of followers. A lot of people were kind
Speaker 3: of into his ideas, his philosophies. He wrote a book
Speaker 3: the Satanic Bible in nineteen sixty nine that went on
Speaker 3: to sell over a million copies. He appeared on Johnny
Speaker 3: Carson Steve Allen's show. He was on the cover of
Speaker 3: Look magazine back in the day. So he was quite,
Speaker 3: you know, the visible celebrity in the sixties and seventies.
Speaker 2: This was also a time when the sensibilities of the
Speaker 2: United States were starting to look closer at, shall we say,
Speaker 2: alternative lifestyles.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, he was kind of a response to
Speaker 3: the kind of flower power, hippie freedom of the day.
Speaker 3: He was more of a law and order character, sort
Speaker 3: of verging on libertarianism. But there were also a lot
Speaker 3: of other ideas blooming at the time, like este and
Speaker 3: other self empowerment philosophies. But his was kind of leavened
Speaker 3: with a sense of humor. There was always a humorous
Speaker 3: aspect to what he was doing and what he was extolling.
Speaker 3: But you know, there also was a real seriousness to
Speaker 3: it as well. I mean, he had rituals in his
Speaker 3: house that were kind of like psychodramas that could benefit
Speaker 3: the participants, could rid them of their sexual hang ups,
Speaker 3: you know, help them romantically and financially. It was basically
Speaker 3: giving people self confident and self empowerment.
Speaker 2: The devilish life and wicked times of Anton Sandor Levy
Speaker 2: born with a Tale as the name of the book,
Speaker 2: and he was the founder of the Church of Satan.
Speaker 2: Doug Broad is the author who's written all about it. So,
Speaker 2: were there black masses and because there's a lot of
Speaker 2: there's a lot in Satanism that I see, it's more
Speaker 2: anti Catholicism than it is Satanism.
Speaker 3: That the case could be made. It was also anti
Speaker 3: any other religion, to be honest with you, it was
Speaker 3: it was the idea that that all of that was fantasy.
Speaker 3: And that's a belief that many people have that a
Speaker 3: lot of religions are fantasy. And this was looking at
Speaker 3: man as his own god, and the only one man
Speaker 3: had to anstitute was himself. He wasn't, you know, Levey
Speaker 3: didn't believe in guilt. It's like, people shouldn't feel guilty
Speaker 3: about stuff that they like as long as consenting adults,
Speaker 3: you know, are involved. What's the what's the problem. There's
Speaker 3: no problem. So yeah, So his his his idea of
Speaker 3: a religion was not so much to counter the other ones.
Speaker 3: It was just to promote man as his own god.
Speaker 2: So did he embrace the Satanism and the and the
Speaker 2: pentagrams and all that just to get the attention that
Speaker 2: he was looking for.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what he did. There was no devil worship involved.
Speaker 3: They didn't worship Satan. There was no They worshiped themselves
Speaker 3: if anything, And the idea of bringing Satan into the
Speaker 3: mix is more of a metaphor. Like he was, he
Speaker 3: was seen, He represented the adversary, and it was it
Speaker 3: was a way to grab at first, it was a
Speaker 3: way to grab people's attention.
Speaker 2: Sounds a little more like Aristotelean humanism than it does
Speaker 2: a Satanism.
Speaker 3: That that the case could be made as well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Doug Brown is with us, and the book that
Speaker 2: he has written is born with a tale of the
Speaker 2: devilish life and wicked times of Anton Sandor Leavey, founder
Speaker 2: of the Church of Satan. What were some of those
Speaker 2: wicked times?
Speaker 3: I guess you could say having a pet lion in
Speaker 3: his home was fairly wicked. Yeah, So in the sixties
Speaker 3: he had a pet lion that lived in a cage
Speaker 3: in his backyard and he sometimes brought the lion out
Speaker 3: to the grocery store. At the time, San Francisco didn't
Speaker 3: have any laws, you know, preventing people from having big
Speaker 3: game animals in their houses. But eventually neighbors complained about
Speaker 3: the roaring, and you know, the lion became unruly on
Speaker 3: a number of occasions, so he had to give it up.
Speaker 3: But no, I mean, this guy lived, He lived the life.
Speaker 3: He he was obsessed with with all of these topics,
Speaker 3: you know, the occult and witchcraft and monsters and you know,
Speaker 3: sideshow performers. He had a very kind of you know,
Speaker 3: bizarre taste and aesthetic, and you know, he lived like
Speaker 3: I say in the book, he lived like Gomez Adams
Speaker 3: and Herman Munster. They had a black house and he,
Speaker 3: you know, he dressed them. You know, he dressed the part.
Speaker 3: He had the bald head and the Van Dyke beard,
Speaker 3: and you know, they lived like one of these TV shows.
Speaker 3: But in real life.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the book Born with a Tale, the
Speaker 2: Devilish Life and Wicked Times of Anton Sandor Levy and
Speaker 2: Doug Broad is the author. So this guy also had
Speaker 2: some musical talent. Was he maybe a frustrated musician.
Speaker 3: I don't think he was a frustrated musician. He actually
Speaker 3: He was a keyboard player, and he played the organ,
Speaker 3: he played the calliop He he he claimed to have
Speaker 3: worked in carnivals and and circuses, uh, playing these instruments.
Speaker 3: But he also, you know, played lounges all over San Francisco,
Speaker 3: and you know there he was in newspaper ads as uh,
Speaker 3: San Francisco's most unique organist. But he, you know, he
Speaker 3: he had he had keyboards, and he had a bank
Speaker 3: of keyboards in his house. And he would entertain his
Speaker 3: guests all the time by playing, you know, for hours.
Speaker 3: And you know, he knew every He knew pretty much
Speaker 3: every ten pan alley song ever recorded. And he was
Speaker 3: quite the prodigy.
Speaker 2: And we're talking about anton Zandor Levy. Born with the
Speaker 2: Tail is the book The Devilish Life and Wicked Times
Speaker 2: of Anton Zandor Levy Doug Broad. He also attracted some celebrity.
Speaker 2: Were they followers or just clingers on or just people
Speaker 2: he hung out.
Speaker 3: With well early on, right after the church sort of
Speaker 3: came to prominence. In nineteen sixty seven, Jane Mansfield, the
Speaker 3: Hollywood star, kind of glombed onto him. I think she
Speaker 3: saw a publicity opportunity, as did he, And for a
Speaker 3: few months they were linked in the press and he
Speaker 3: claims they were romantic. She does not. She disputed that,
Speaker 3: but this was actually right, you know, not long before
Speaker 3: she was killed in a car accident. Yeah. And then
Speaker 3: later on, Sammy Davis Junior in nineteen seventy three had
Speaker 3: a brief sort of dalliance with the church and he
Speaker 3: was actually made an honorary world in the Church of Satan.
Speaker 3: But I think his interest was probably more genuine. He
Speaker 3: you know, Sammy was into a lot of stuff. He
Speaker 3: was very experimental all his life, and this is one
Speaker 3: thing that he thought was kind of the cool thing
Speaker 3: to pursue.
Speaker 2: Doug Broad He's the author of Born with a Tale,
Speaker 2: The Devilish Life and Wicked Times of Anton Sandor Levey.
Speaker 2: The books out everywhere you get books. And thanks for
Speaker 2: joining us today, Doug Broad.
Speaker 3: My pleasure, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Later with Lee Matthews, the Lee
Speaker 1: Matthews Podcast, and remember to listen to The Drive Live
Speaker 1: weekday afternoons from five to seven and Iheartsmedia Presentation