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No purchase necessary BOID. We're prohibited by Way 24 00:00:57.640 --> 00:00:59.960 eighteen plus terms and conditions applaing. See website for. 25 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:03.600 Block tad. 26 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:16.359 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 27 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.480 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 28 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:27.120 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK. Every week, 29 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:31.079 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 30 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:35.159 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 31 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:50.680 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Good evening, new from the 32 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.519 author of the Wild Blue Press classics, The Trail of 33 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:58.480 Ted Bundy and the Bundy Secrets. Ted Bundy's Murderous Mysteries 34 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:01.959 is a deep dive into the archival record of America's 35 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:05.719 most notorious serial killer. It's a veritable gold mine of 36 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:10.000 information on Bundy, his victims, and this very voluminous case. 37 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:14.000 Written by the foremost authority on Ted Bundy, this latest 38 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:18.280 examination of his brutal serial killer contains new, revealing and 39 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:22.680 never before published interviews with those close to Bundy, close 40 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:26.199 to his victims, and a potential victim who barely escaped 41 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:30.759 his clutches. Ted Bundy's Murderous Mysteries brings to light for 42 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.960 the first time many heretofore passed over facts about Bundy 43 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.319 and reveals previously hidden aspects of the lives of some 44 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.599 of his victims. The book they were featuring this evening 45 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.759 is Ted Bundy's Murderous Mysteries The Many Victims of America's 46 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:49.599 most infamous serial Killer, with my special guest, journalist and 47 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.439 author Kevin Sullivan. Welcome back to the program, and thank 48 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:58.199 you very much for this interview. Kevin Sullivan, Hey, Dan, 49 00:02:58.280 --> 00:02:58.759 how are you doing. 50 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.360 Thank you so much for having me back. It's always 51 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:02.719 good you show. 52 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.319 It's always great to have you, especially when we're talking 53 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:10.759 about Bundy, and in light of all the hoopla and 54 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.759 a stereover Bundy, especially now, and we've seen people are 55 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:18.199 fans of true crime have obviously seen you on some 56 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:22.439 of the documentaries that have appeared recently. So you are, 57 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:26.039 as we mentioned in the interview, this is you are 58 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:30.840 the resident expert on Ted Bundy. Let's talk about the 59 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:35.120 previous books that that you have written. Could you please 60 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.800 mention the the four This is the fourth uh Ted 61 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.840 Bundy books, So can you mention the previous three books? Please? 62 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:50.080 Yes, yes, excuse me, My first book was called The 63 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.520 Bundy Murders of Comprehensive History. And I've said this allten 64 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.360 I never had any intention about you know where I 65 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.719 need anything about Ted Bundy. But back in two thousand 66 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.879 and five, I met through a mutual friend, Jerry Thompson, 67 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:10.919 and Jerry was the retired with the retired homicide investigator 68 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:13.599 out of Salt Lake City, Utah. By the way, sad 69 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:18.000 news out of Utah. Jerry passed away yesterday, and so 70 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:21.680 that was sad to hear that. Yeah, but he and 71 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:26.759 Bob Hayward, the arresting officer of Ted Bundy, died a 72 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.040 few months ago and his wife died yesterday. So yeah, 73 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:33.360 But anyway, but I never had any intention of it. 74 00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:36.800 But a local friend of mine here in Louisville, Jim Massey, 75 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:42.920 has known Jerry Thompson for years, and so I was 76 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.199 invited to meet him and his wife when they came 77 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:49.160 to Louisville for I guess we had dinner. Yeah, And 78 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:52.920 so anyway, it was very interesting because I knew meeting 79 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.839 Jerry was going to be a lot of fun, and 80 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.480 I thought maybe I might write an article about my 81 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:02.399 meeting with him, but he brought that that murder kit 82 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.519 that Bundy carried uh and Jerry's had had the kit 83 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.120 in his possession for years, and he brought that to Louisville, 84 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.600 and just I was able to take that to my home, 85 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:16.000 photograph and do all that stuff. It was just very interesting. 86 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:19.279 And before Jerry left, he gave me, and he gave 87 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.759 my friend Jim, one of the glad trash bags that 88 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.680 Bundy carried in his murder kit. What Bundy would use 89 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:28.439 these trash bags for would be to put the victim's 90 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.839 clothes in them. And because he always left them naked, 91 00:05:32.199 --> 00:05:35.040 with only like maybe a beaded necklace if they were 92 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:37.639 wearing that, but all the clothes would go into these 93 00:05:37.639 --> 00:05:40.639 bags and they he might dump that bag one hundred 94 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:43.680 miles down the road in some dumpster or a goodwill 95 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.439 or something like that. So having that in my house 96 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.519 and be, you know, given that bag, it just was 97 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.839 so surreal. I started really diving into the life of 98 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:55.480 Ted Bundy, and I decided I'm gonna I'm gonna go 99 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.600 ahead and and write a book about it. So that 100 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.480 book was The Bundy Murders, A Comprehensive History. It's coming 101 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.600 up on its tenth year anniversary. It was released in 102 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.680 August of two thousand and nine, and it's been a 103 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:15.720 good seller. And it was the only book that I 104 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.639 ever thought I would ever write about Bundy. But in 105 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:22.199 twenty fifteen I started learning of some people that were 106 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:27.120 either passing away or having significant problems, and I thought, 107 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:28.839 you know, maybe I always visit the case and do 108 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.800 what it's called the companion volume. And I did that, 109 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:36.560 and in twenty sixteen my second book on Bundy, the 110 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.120 Companion Volume, was The Trayal of Dead Bundy, digging up 111 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.639 the untold stories, and that also conveined, just like the 112 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.800 first book, a lot of new information that had never 113 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.560 been published before. And I forgot to mention that about 114 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.800 the Bundy murder because there was a number of new 115 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.160 things about the murders that came out with my first book, 116 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.680 The Bundy Murders, and a lot of new information in 117 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:01.720 general about the case. Well, some really great things happened 118 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:04.480 for The Trail of Ted Bundy. A lot of interviews 119 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:08.639 came in, people were contacting me. They're valid Bundy contacts, 120 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:12.439 and so all that new information went into that book. 121 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:16.600 In twenty seventeen, I followed it up with another book 122 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.680 because people kept coming to me that I didn't know 123 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:24.639 that we're associated with the case in one way or another. 124 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.160 And after I vetted them, then I had a bunch 125 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:30.160 of more people to interview, and so in twenty seventeen 126 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:36.079 I released The Bundye Secrets and the Bundee Secrets Hidden 127 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.079 Files on America's Worst serial Killer had to do with 128 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:45.399 not just these interviews, but a republication of many of 129 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:49.040 these interesting case files that I've used for research for years, 130 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:55.920 along with commentary from me. This new book is just 131 00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:59.480 about the same, but I never repeat information in any 132 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.120 of my books. It's always new. I've done the same 133 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.319 thing here with this new book that Bundy's Murderous Mysteries, 134 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:12.839 and it's another republication of very interesting parts of directors 135 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:18.079 with commentary from me, and another chapter of brand new 136 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:21.040 interviews of people, most of them have never been interviewed before. 137 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.639 And I found something interesting that happened for this last book, 138 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.480 because I've got such a large case file, probably up 139 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.080 to maybe ten thousand pages of the things about Bundy, 140 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.799 all from various aspects of the case. And I didn't 141 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.440 realize this, but for this last book, I ran across 142 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:49.080 several pages that were misfiled years ago and put in 143 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:52.960 a stack that I capped but wasn't supposed to be used, 144 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:57.480 and they contained some unbelievably good information about Bundy and 145 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.000 it being published for the first time. I would have 146 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:03.559 used it in the Bundy Merse, but I misfiled it, 147 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:08.639 and so it's interesting. So that's that information is in 148 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:12.759 there now. And the information that's in there about these 149 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:17.000 missing pages has to do with an interview of a 150 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:22.840 guy named Charles Shearer who said that he and Bundy 151 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:26.120 and Buddy was over at his apartment and it was 152 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:30.600 Charles's wife and Bundy and they were all drinking and 153 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.960 at some point Bundy kind of blurted out that the 154 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.279 police are are looking for him or looking for his 155 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.840 car because of the abduction of three girls. And he 156 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:42.960 came out and said he abducted the three girls. And 157 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.840 when Shearer asked him, what did you say, the repeat 158 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:49.960 that he refused to answer. And so that's really that's astounding, 159 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.960 and so that that story is in the book. But yeah, 160 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.960 it's this is the fourth book, and I can break 161 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.519 it to everybody here. I think this is a good 162 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:02.919 place to do it on your show. Every time I 163 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:06.720 publish a book, I take about a week. I think 164 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:11.039 about a week and I just asking it and I've 165 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.360 gotten my commented complimentary copies from the publisher, and I 166 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:18.279 might read it, I'll post about it on social media, 167 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.639 and I'll really just kind of enjoy myself. And I'm 168 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.279 just taking about a week's break. Well, I had a 169 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.320 guy contact to me the day after my book came out, 170 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:32.080 and he asked me something about have you ever considered 171 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:36.120 about writing about Ted Bundy from like this other angle 172 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:39.080 I'm doing a book? And I said, well, no, but 173 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.159 that does sound interesting, and I thought I'm not going 174 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:44.960 to be doing this, so I said, well, I'll I'll 175 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.960 lay it aside and if I ever want to do 176 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:50.039 something about it, I'll let you know. But I don't 177 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.919 really think I'm interested. But it's a good idea. Well, 178 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.919 over the next several days, I got to thinking about 179 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.720 it and I called my publisher or I contacted my publisher, 180 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:02.960 and they loved the idea. So I'm already deep into 181 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:06.720 the fifth book about Bundy. I can't say the approach 182 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:11.000 or the angle now, but it's really going to be good. 183 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.799 And here I've written a fifth book, and from a 184 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:18.120 guy I never had any intention of writing any books 185 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:23.440 about that Bundy. It's a little interesting, I guess you could. 186 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:28.080 Say, absolutely absolutely, And thanks for that announcement here, so 187 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.879 people know even more to look forward to for the 188 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.279 voracious appetite of Bundy fans and people interested in Bundy, 189 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:41.159 all things Bundy. Let's get to murderous mysteries here. You 190 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:44.399 talk about people that are familiar with this case, Delinda 191 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:49.320 and Healey January thirty first, nineteen seventy four. Tell us 192 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.879 what you found out from these files, these case files 193 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.720 that you used it researched and did this book from, 194 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:00.840 but also the witnesses and what they saw and what 195 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:04.399 is it about these files. It's very intimate, but tell 196 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.720 us give us the details of what you find about 197 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:07.600 Linda and Healy. 198 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:15.279 Well, for most people will never see the case files 199 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:21.399 of any particular case. When you're writing in narrative nonfiction, 200 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:23.799 what you'll do, like, for instance, when I wrote the 201 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:27.320 Bunny Merse, I have a lot of information. I'm writing 202 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.559 it in my own voice, and occasionally I'll stop and 203 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:33.399 quote maybe a small package from the record or what 204 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.320 somebody said. But I'm really telling this story from my 205 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.799 point of view because I've digested the material and I'm 206 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.720 giving it back out on the printed page. But I remember, 207 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.600 as I was researching and writing The Bundy Merse, I 208 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:53.679 kept thinking, these these case files are so fascinating because 209 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.480 even though you can't reproduce case files in large numbers 210 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:02.200 in narrative nonfiction, because in a case like that, if 211 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.759 you did that, you'd have a lot of facts but 212 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.720 no real co easy story, so you can't really replicate 213 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:12.120 them there. But you can have a book of case 214 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:15.360 file material. And other writers have done it, you know, 215 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:17.120 over the years. There's a book out there now with 216 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.759 Jack the Ripper, and you've got all those court testimonies 217 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:23.440 and stuff, and it's fascinating to read, and all these 218 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.039 questions and answers and depositions. It's just interesting. So there's 219 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.600 a place for that. So I remember, as I was, 220 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.759 you know, you know, writing The Bunny Burse, I thought, man, 221 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.799 this stuff is so fascinating. I know I'll never be 222 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:38.720 able to do it, but it wouldn't it be great 223 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.200 if if I could put together a book of just 224 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.039 case files. And I thought, well, it's just never going 225 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.679 to happen, but I'd like to put people to be 226 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:51.080 able to see what the detectives saw, and this stuff 227 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.600 was very classified then and it was all for in 228 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.519 house use and what they saw on a daily basis 229 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.559 as information was added, So I think there's a for that. 230 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.799 So when I did The Bundy Secrets and then this 231 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:07.919 last book did Buddies, Murs Mysteries, you know, it's that way, 232 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.759 and I had commentaries. So if you're looking back, like, 233 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.559 for example, you read my books on the Linda and healely, 234 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:19.399 you're getting the full story. However, if you look yeah, 235 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.120 because in fact I've talked about Healey, not just in 236 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:25.320 The Bundy Murders, where the full story is. But I'll 237 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.200 touch upon other books, but I won't repeat the information, 238 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.159 but I'll bring out new information about that in my 239 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.360 other books. Well, for those who are reading either The 240 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:37.799 Bundie Secrets or this new book, they're able to see 241 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:42.320 the case files directly from the detectives that they were 242 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.720 using in the house, and within that they would take 243 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.720 statements from everybody involved. Or so in the case of 244 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.039 Linda and Ealy, you've got her three or four other 245 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.960 housemates that came in and were interviewed by the detectives, 246 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.360 and very often the statements of people are rather long 247 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.519 and so in these two books where I've done this, 248 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.480 people can actually see word for word what these people 249 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:17.120 were asked by the detectives and how they responded. And 250 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:20.960 it's a fascinating look, not just in the police work 251 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.600 in general and how they obtained this information, but how 252 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:29.639 the information flows out of the people who are reliving 253 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.120 what has happened and trying to give it back in 254 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.559 a proper order. So it's fascinating stuff. And like I say, 255 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.120 you've got all these testimonies from the women that lived 256 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.600 with Linda an Eally and you know what occurred that night. 257 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.559 So it's a very very interesting thing to be able 258 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:53.919 to see these case styles and go over them. 259 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.480 What was in just I know, because we can't go 260 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.600 over every single thing to send this book, But what 261 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:04.039 about Linda and what little titbit was I think stood 262 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.639 out that that you didn't write about before, and people, 263 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.639 especially big fans of this Ted Bundy, wouldn't know. 264 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:20.120 Well, now, there's various aspects. If you look at what 265 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.240 if you look at how I wrote, you could really 266 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.240 go down a number of areas there. If you look 267 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.279 at what I wrote in the Bundy Mursy, when you 268 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.279 follow the story you can see as you read through 269 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:36.799 it there's information there and I'm telling it. However, if 270 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:40.120 you very often, and I do this myself when I'm 271 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.919 reading a book, I'll think, Oh, I wonder what else 272 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:46.320 occurred beyond that? So I wouldn't know what to say 273 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:49.440 with any one thing. If you're thinking about any one 274 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.120 particular thing, I'd be happy to comment on it. But 275 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:58.200 these reports are so voluminous that when you look at 276 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.039 how I wrote it in the Bundy murders, you could say, Oh, 277 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:04.000 I wonder if anything else happened here? Did she comment 278 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.279 on this? You know how questions pop up in people's 279 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:09.160 mouths if you've got something that you're thinking of in particular. 280 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.960 Oh you know, I mean, I'll just go ahead and 281 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:12.640 comment on it. 282 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:22.880 When you talk about the uh, these witnesses, Yes, it 283 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:28.720 came forward. What what was the testimony? What what did 284 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:33.200 the police indicate from that testimony that people might be 285 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:38.160 surprised about? 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Jump a 296 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:10.559 casino dot com plus turn the condition to play details. 297 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.640 Well, it's interesting that what I'm about to say is 298 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:20.559 not unusual. And I covered this in in my first book. 299 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:24.519 But when the police came into the house that night, 300 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:27.480 I mean, you have to understand she disappeared in the 301 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.960 early morning. How was the thing refirst and it was, 302 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.440 you know, and and it was the middle of the night. 303 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.279 When the girls woke up the next morning when the 304 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:39.400 alarm was going off, she hadn't turned it off. They 305 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.519 thought she was sleeping. It not happening. They don't know 306 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:48.160 what's happened to her. They leave, they're gone for the day. 307 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.680 They're hoping she'll show up. They're at school. They all 308 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.720 come home that night, and that's when the fear really 309 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.519 starts to build. So you've got a very strange case 310 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:03.359 that particular night that they came back and Linda was 311 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:06.640 still gone. Linda was supposed to be there preparing dinner 312 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.039 for her boyfriend and her mother and father, and I 313 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.240 guess I think her brother was supposed to be there 314 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:17.240 as well, but she's she's nowhere to be found. So 315 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.000 the father and brothers show up, and then this and 316 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.960 then the father calls the mom, uh missus heally and says, well, 317 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.519 don't come over because she's not here, and she says, 318 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.039 have you call the police? And you know, he said no, 319 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.599 but I think we'll wait a bit. You know, that's 320 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.559 that's just the natures sometimes of parents that this dad 321 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.039 is so concerned, but he's not wanting to jump the 322 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:44.160 gun on the police, hoping for the best. And she 323 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.799 said no, and she she gets up the phone from 324 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:48.519 him and she calls the cops. Well, here's the thing. 325 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.440 The police come over and it's it's a couple of men, 326 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.519 you know, they're not detectives, but they're patrol officers. They 327 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.480 come in and they do the usual thing, and they're 328 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.440 they're getting the name of the missing person, information about 329 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:09.680 the people, relatives, names, all that stuff. And they do 330 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:14.720 look around, but they weren't sure whether foul play was 331 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:19.039 involved in this or not. When the detective comes later 332 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.079 that night, and I can't remember I think it was 333 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.839 around midnight, might have been maybe around eleven o'clock. He 334 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:29.440 comes in there and he goes in there, right into 335 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.400 the room and he starts to do his work. And 336 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:35.519 what they find in Linda's room is really a strange thing. 337 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.839 The girls had already discovered that not only was the 338 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:42.480 bed maid, it was made in almost like a military fashion. 339 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:45.640 And Linda never made her bed during the week because 340 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.160 she had to get up so early to go to 341 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.880 the radio station. She was a ski announcer at a 342 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.759 local radio station in Seattle, had to be there by 343 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:57.319 like sixth thirty, so she didn't make her bed at 344 00:20:57.319 --> 00:20:59.000 all during the week, and when she did, it never 345 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.799 looked like that. There was blood on the bed. There 346 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.359 was blood on the pillowcase, and the pillow case was removed, 347 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.799 but there was blood there. Now it wasn't blood spatter 348 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.119 as if she were beaten, and Bundy would say later 349 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.759 that she was choked into unconsciousness even though she was asleep. 350 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.319 She woke up, but he choked her into unconsciousness and 351 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:25.119 they breed in a nose bleed, and the blood that 352 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.279 they found is consistent with that because it wasn't in 353 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:33.160 a spatter pattern. Well, buddy takes this, this thing off 354 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:39.559 of her ninety, hangs it up in the closet, makes 355 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.559 the bed. I don't know, they're not sure if he 356 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:46.160 were wraps her up in a blanket, but he either 357 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:48.759 lays her on the floor or puts her in a chair. 358 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:53.240 She's unconscious, she's bleeding from the nose. And he makes 359 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.359 the bed, and he grabs a backpack and takes him clothes. 360 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.559 Now he may be setting up the scene to look 361 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:05.640 like she somewhere. So the police weren't quite sure whether 362 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:10.160 or not this was a volitional leading on her part 363 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:15.839 or something that speaks of foul play. So it was really, 364 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:20.440 you know, they just weren't sure. But when the police 365 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:26.480 started to determine the real facts behind this, that Linda 366 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.319 would not have left and this happened over a number 367 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:32.240 of days, that this would not have that she would 368 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.319 not have left the premises her parents were going to 369 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.799 come over. She was doing five the night before. There 370 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.960 was nothing. This was so out out of character. So 371 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:42.839 this is one of the things I say about this abduction. 372 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:47.000 It's a very surreal and strange abduction, and it's one 373 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.519 that just one of the surreal type of abductions that 374 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.200 Bundy would commit, the kind of things that you don't 375 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.079 hear from usually, even from abductors. He just did these wild, 376 00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.839 outlandish types of abduction. So it was kind of a 377 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.000 slow process for the cops to come to the conclusion 378 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.559 that bal play was involved, and of course it was. 379 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:17.079 You write about another abduction, George N. Hawkins, and you 380 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.880 talk about a interview or a telephone interview with him, 381 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:27.039 a person named Dwyane Kobe. Huh, it's very interesting what 382 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:29.960 you did learn from Dwayne Kobe. And then again, putting 383 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.400 together with everything else, tell us a little bit about 384 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.960 this abduction and murder and Dwayne COBE's rule. 385 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.920 Yeah, what he had to say. Yeah, in fact, it's 386 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.759 it's Dwayne Covey. I called him Covie for years until 387 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.799 until a lady knew him said it was back to Covey. 388 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.319 But it looks like it felt like Kobe. So I'm 389 00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:52.720 glad that finally told me it's Covey. But it looks 390 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.759 like anyway, I had contacted Dwayne because he was What 391 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.559 happened was on the night that George N. Disappeared in 392 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.640 here again, And of course I've been all over this 393 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:09.039 area and you can see how exactly it transpired. On 394 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:15.160 seventeenth Street in the Seattle near the school. They have 395 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:19.240 just blocks from the school, a couple of blocks that's 396 00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:24.359 called Greek Row, got fraternity and sority auses. Well, the 397 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:28.599 back alley is the kids are going up and down 398 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.000 that all hours of the night and they're just it's 399 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.880 just a busy area. On the night that George and disappeared, 400 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.799 she was well aware of women disappearing in the area. 401 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:46.000