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Speaker 1: Boom boom.

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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, welcome back to episode two of the

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Jaws Versus Jurassic Park podcast on the Shureley You Can't

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Be Serious Podcast, the what do you think? Uh?

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Speaker 3: Now? Eventually do plan to have dinosaurs on your dinosaur podcast? Right? Hello? Hello?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I really do hate that, man, That's not true.

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Speaker 5: Hello everybody, and welcome to the Surely You Can't Be

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Serious podcast, discussing and debating the iconic and the forgotten

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of eighties and nineties pop culture with your co hosts

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James D. Graves and Jason Kolovin.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back, everybody, Thank you for joining us again. We

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are here to talk about sharks and dinosaurs.

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Speaker 4: Dinosaurs and sharks tonight, let's look at the cast and

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crew of each of these movies, who they thought about

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bringing in, who they ended up hiring, and then what

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it meant to them. All right, let's start with Jaws,

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since it's the first one here sounds good. Initially, Peter

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Benchley went to Spielberg and said, I've got an idea.

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I think we should hire Paul Newman as Quint, Robert

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Redford as Chief Brody, and John Voight for Hooper. And

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then they told him, here's the deal. The shark is

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the star of the movie.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yes, Spielberg had all kinds of guys in mind

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for these different parts, and of all of the people

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that he had in mind, the only one, the only

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first choice that he actually got was the mayor.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So Murray Hamilton is his name, and he was the

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choice that Spielberg had for the mayor that actually came through.

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I mean, that guy's perfect as the mayor. He is perfect.

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Speaker 4: He nails it. He has that sweet coat that has

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the anchors on it that I a couple of jealous of. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Now, he had been in an at me of a

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murder and he had been the cuckold husband and the

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graduate if you've ever seen that. And he's this weird

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scene with him having a drink with Justin Hoffman who's

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having an affair with missus Robinson. He's mister Robinson.

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Speaker 4: There you go.

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Speaker 3: But he is the perfect slimy, bad decision making but

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going to push my bad decisions on you mayor for

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this movie. Fantastic.

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Speaker 4: And later he does a great job in my opinion

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of you know, he was all gung ho on keeping

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the beaches open for economic reasons, and then when there's

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an attack at the beach, he does a great job

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of sort of emotionally saying, my kids were on that

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beach too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the part where he's he convinces people

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to go out and swim, I mean, why why would you?

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Why would you do that?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so the part of Chief Brody, this is interesting.

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Steven Spielberg wanted several different people for this part. One

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person in particular really wanted it. Charlton Heston really wanted

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the part of Chief Brody. Yeah, and Spielberg was like,

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no way, dude, No.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Heston had been in these parts where he was

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always the conquering hero, like you just knew he was

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going to win. And Spielberg didn't want people in the

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theater to get you know, just be relaxed knowing, Hey,

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Heston's got this right.

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Speaker 4: Roy Scheider is every man. He is the representative of

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the audience. I taught between his a sticky situation. I

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got my job responsibilities, I've got my family responsibilities. I

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got the shark that's screwing up everything and I'm scared,

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but I got to do my job, you know. And

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it was interesting that Spielberg had never met Roy Scheider

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until he went to a party. So Spielberg wanted to

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offer the role of Chief Brody to Robert Duvall, but

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he turned him down. He saw the movie as a

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potential phenomenon, but he was worried it might make him

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too famous.

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Speaker 3: Steven Spielberg was specific about, I don't want somebody that's

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too big and too famous, because he had this idea

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that Brody needed to be vulnerable and somebody that the

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audience could identify with. But he had talked to five

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or six actors and he couldn't find the right person

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for the job. And so he's at this party at

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Andrea Eastman's house, who was the casting director for The Godfather,

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and Roy Scheider also happens to be there and several

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other Hollywood folks and Roy Scheider over here's Spielberg talking

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to some writer about the scene where the shark comes

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out of the water, and he kind of becomes fascinated.

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And then you know, parties, you move on, you you

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have your drinks, and then he sees Spielberg just kind

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of sitting alone by himself, and so he just goes

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over for instance down and he's like, you know, Hey,

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what's up, what's wrong? And he just Spielberg just spills

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all of his depression and anxiety about, you know, talking

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to all these actors, he can't find the right person

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to be the to be his Chief Brody and be

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the every man. And finally, after listening very quietly and

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patiently for a while, Roy Scheider goes, what about me,

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I'm an actor. I would love to be in Jo's

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and bingo bogo. There you go, Yep, going to the

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right party.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome, that's awesome. I love that story. So Chief

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Rody is Roy Scheider, and he had been in the

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French Connection. Later he did all that Jazz and Blue.

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Speaker 3: Thunder, and he was on a series a little bit

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later on where it was kind of a deep sea

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SeaQuest man.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that was on for about five and I

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remember I was all excited about it.

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Speaker 3: And then yeah, Star Trek for the Water or something

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like that. He had been in a few things, but

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he really found his way as a cop. He was

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in Clute, he was in and then he was in

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the French Connection and just something about him said cop.

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And that's why he's the chief of police in this one.

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Speaker 4: For Matt Hooper. The studio wanted Jeff Bridges or Jan

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Michael Vincent or Timothy Bottoms, and like we said before,

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John Voight was considered, but George Lucas was the one

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who said, Hey, how about Ricky?

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Speaker 3: Right, Richard Dreyfus. Yeah, the other guys were more pretty boys,

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which was kind of the way that he was that

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the character of Hooper was portrayed in the book that

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he was kind of this handsome, young just out of college,

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kind of dashing figure. And obviously Richard Dreyfus is not

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that kind of guy, especially not in this movie.

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Speaker 4: Yep, this is really interesting to me that the process

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of the hiring of Richard Dreyfus. Okay, now, Spielberg calls

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him and says, Hey, I've got this project I'm working

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on called Jaws, and I need this guy Hooper, who's

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a shark expert and all this stuff. Would you like

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to play him? And rich drefs sayes, no, way, man, no, and.

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Speaker 3: He it was like a great movie to watch. It's

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like a terrible movie to be a part of.

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Speaker 4: That's what he said. He said, Well he was right

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about that too, though. He was absolutely right. So he

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kept asking him, right, He was very emphatic, like no,

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I'm not doing this, and he's like, how about we

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all say it at the same time. Already one, two, three,

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I'm not doing this.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, kind of it started to be a little

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bit of a d about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But he had recently started a movie called The

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Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. It was his first starring role where he was

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the lead man.

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Speaker 4: And when he sat to watch the premiere, he watched

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himself on screen and thought, I suck. He thought he

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was terrible.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I am never going to get cast

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in anything again. I better go take this thing before

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news gets out that I think it's terrible, terrible performance.

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Speaker 4: He immediately called Spielberg and begged for the part of

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Matt Hooper, which was funny, and when he showed up.

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He showed up to talk it over with him. He

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had that scraggly beard and those remless glasses and the

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little stocking gap, and they were like, that's it, you

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got it. Don't change the thing. Joel Gray wanted to

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play the part of Hooper too. I don't know if

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you are familiar with him, but oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: Joel Gray was in Caparet For those interested in the

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eighties movies, he was in Remo Williams.

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Speaker 4: And then the third main role he had to fill

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with Quinn. The one guy that Spielber had in mind

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for this part was Lee Marvin. But Lee Marvin he

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was fishing off of the coach Mexico. Yeah, and they're like, well,

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we want to talk to you about fishing sort of.

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He's like, I'm on vacation. I'm on vacation. Uh huh,

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And he refused to talk to them, so like, well,

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I guess we got to move on without Lee Marvin.

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Speaker 3: He also offered it to Sterling Hayden. For those of

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you who don't know Sterling Hayden. If you've seen Doctor Strangelove,

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he's the American general who kind of puts everything into

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action to cause the destruction of the world, who only

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drinks vodka because of fluoridation of the water. He's that guy.

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Speaker 4: The producers of the show said, well, you know what

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about Robert Shaw. They had just worked with him on

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the Sting and said, you know, he can be a

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little honery, but he's a good actor. He's he's Shakespeare

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and he's a professional.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about him?

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Speaker 4: And they decided to.

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Speaker 3: Go with him. You know, we talked about them starting

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the movie without having things done. Nine days before they

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started filming, they still didn't have the parts of quent

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or Hooper cast. It's crazy nine days, which means for

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those actors, hey you're hired, see you in less than

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a week and a half start production.

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Speaker 4: Here's a copy. Still memorize it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah so, but even I mean, we know there wasn't

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even a script. There was not a complete There was

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multiple scripts that were completed, but they weren't scripts that

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they were going to use. They were working on new

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lines every night. Spielberg and Carl Gottlieb were working on

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fresh dialogue that people would have to learn that next day.

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So I guess that's part of the production. Robert Shaw

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is an interesting choice for Quin because he had kind

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of been in his early career a more of a

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dashing leading man type of guy, swashbuckling type of guy,

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and then he was like maybe one one of the

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best villains for James Bond and from Russia with Love.

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He was like the evil James Bond. I mean, he

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was awesome, but he's now got to play the part

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of this kind of crotchety old man. You know, it's weird.

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And I looked at this, he's only forty seven. When

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he was filming this, I'm thinking, I'm thinking he's in

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his sixties and he's forty seven years old. He was

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doing a part unlike any part that he had done before,

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and so he was looking for kind of inspiration on

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how to play the part. And one of the guys

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that he looked to was was a guy named Craig

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Kingsbury who was just a local fisherman. But the guy

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that they cast as Ben Gardner in Gardner's head. But

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this is an interesting story. I just got I pitched

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to pick this one up today. So when they were

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there and they were putting together like the boat and

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stuff like that. They're putting together other boats, making all

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the props for the set. Some spray paint that they

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were spray painting like blue over to the neighboring house.

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And as it out, there was a crotchety, old, angry

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man who lived in that house. And his name's Lynn Murphy.

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And so he you know, you've just blown paint over

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the guy who you shouldn't cross and at any point

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in life, and so he goes and balls them out,

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and then somehow, because I guess he's the local mechanic

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and knows how machines work, they're like, hey, could you

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help us out with this boat stuff? And then hey,

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could you help us out with a shark? And so

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he becomes like a guy on the set who's like

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teaching them how to do stuff like he There have

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been several actors who have said, had it not been

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for Lynn Murphy, the movie Jaws might not have come out.

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And he's gotten like no credit. He's not created in

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the credits of the movie. It's nowhere. It just just

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just happens to be this old car mudgeon league guy.

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And I looked at him, and he was in his

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forties too. I guess I'm just thinking. I think I

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thought I had like twenty years before I could become

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a car budget. I guess I could do it right now.

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And so Robert Shaw is having trouble with this line

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on the reading. He's talking to Spielberg and as they're talking,

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Lenn Murphy over yelling at the crew about stop doing

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what you're doing. You're messing everything. He's just like yelling

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at him because of how stupid they are, and Steven

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Spielberg goes you hear that, read it like that, and

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that was the inspiration for shop for the rest of

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the movie. Quit. That's awesome.

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Speaker 4: So those three roles are hugely important. Obviously, there's the

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three main roles of the movie, right, right, Except I

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would argue the most important hire in the cast was

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Lorrange Gary as the role of Ellen Brody. And let

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me tell you why.

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Speaker 3: It is not who I thought you were going to say,

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but okay, go for it. Okay.

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Speaker 4: She was the most important hire because she was the

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wife of Sid Sheinberg, who was Steven Spielberg's boss, so

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he and her and her husband had skin in the

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game here, right. The fact that she had an important

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role in this movie meant that he was less likely

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to fire Spielberg and shut it down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, probably so.

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Speaker 4: And when you're a twenty seven year old director and

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you hire your boss's wife, it's never a bad thing, right.

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Speaker 3: And you could you know, you can say that maybe

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she had she had preferential treatment or whatever. But she

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did a great job.

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Speaker 4: She did a great job.

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Speaker 3: I thought she was a perfect wife in this one.

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I mean, she acted well. She it was very real.

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You just she was very believable as the displaced wife

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of a New York family who's now in amity. So

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who I thought you were going to say as the

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most important casting was.

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Speaker 4: A mo on pins and needles here. I can't wait

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for you to tell me who in the world this

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is Susan Becklanine. You know what? She was pretty dagonam

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important now that she was.

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Speaker 3: Vital because that first scene, if you don't sell that

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first scene the rest of the movies like mah right, yeah,

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and that first scene is all her, It is all her.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about No, you're exactly right, Let's talk about

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her for a second. So she was a competitive swimmer

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and a stunt woman, not really an actress.

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Speaker 3: They knew what had to happen in the scene, and

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so they had three very important things that they had

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to consider. Right, They had to have somebody who was tough,

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who could handle the physical demands of the scene. They

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had to have somebody who was beautiful because it was

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supposed to be a girl that this guy is going

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to be chasing after. And they had to have somebody

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who was willing to get naked.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Susan Beckliny.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so she pointed out. She was like, you know,

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so they do a casting call. You know, it's just like, hey,

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this part exists. Here's what we got. And I'm sure

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part of it was, hey, we need beautiful, tough, willing

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to get naked. And so she comes in. Before she

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goes in, she thinks, ah, they always make you take

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your clothes off. And I'm like, you haven't been in

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that many moves, at least not ones that are on IMDb.

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I wonder, I wonder how many auditions you had that

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you had to take your clothes off for. It was

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the seventies, it was a different time anyway. So she decides,

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instead of, you know, giving them that option, what I'll

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do is I will stick a naked picture of me

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in my portfolio folder.

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Speaker 4: And when she went to the audition, he went and

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talked to Bill Gilmore, showed him that picture and he

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said when he saw the picture all he could do

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was blush. Right, So he went to Steven Spielberg with

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the picture and said, hey, Steve, here you go.

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Speaker 3: What do you think of this?

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Speaker 4: And Stephen's like, well, yeah, but can she act? He's like,

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Steve would look at this picture again?

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Speaker 3: On come on? So she was very important.

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Speaker 4: She screamed her lungs out too, and she made that

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scene super believable. She was screaming like she would die

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in you know.

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Speaker 3: They well, the way that they rigged her up. They

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had ropes on either side of her. I mean, you

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see her like moving one way through the water and

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the other way, because it has to be like this

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nonlinear movement through the water like a fish would do.

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And what they did was like they had guys with

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rope and three hundred pound weights and this thing wrapped

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around her underneath the water and she was really just

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being thrown back and forth. And there was there was

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rumors that went around like that she's screaming like that

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because her ribs were breaking, but that's apparently false. You know,

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she did a fantastic job. And then when they had

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to go back in and and put in more sound

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before the scene, she had to scream while Steven Spielberg

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was pouring water down her throat, which you know now

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is called waterboarding. We don't do that anymore.

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Speaker 4: Rights the Geneva Convention, Steven Spielberg is guilty of a

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war crime. So that pretty much is the cast of Jaws.

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If you don't include Bruce the Shark. Let's switch over

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to Dress and Kark and talk about who was almost

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cast in these roles. All right. So Spielberg now has

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a little bit more clout in Hollywood, and so he

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can a little bit I think, yeah, little scream a bit.

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Speaker 3: I've directed The Sugarland Express. Hey, I've directed every single

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great movie of the eighties.

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Speaker 4: Seriously. So here's here's who was considered for these roles.

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All right. So the role of doctor Alan Grant went

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to Sam Neil does a great job. Or He had

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been in the Hunt for Red October. He was later

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in The Piano and Event Horizon. He was an Australian actor.

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All right, here's who was considered for the role of

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doctor Allan Grant. So, just off the top of his head,

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Steven Spielberg was like, how about Harrison Ford. I think

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that was a little bit overkill for that role. You

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don't need Indiana Jones, you just need doctor Grant. So

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he considered Harrison Ford, he considered Kurt Russell. Right, he

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offered the role to William Hurt, who didn't even read

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the script and just said, no, I'm not interested in dinosaurs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, William Hurt's kind of famous for turning stuff down.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not a fan of his. I don't really

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like him, Okay. And then finally they thought about Richard Dreyfuss.

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Speaker 3: That would have been interesting.

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Speaker 4: So that's who was considered for the role of doctor

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Allan Grant. Now, then doctor Ellie Satler is kind of

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like the Susan Sarandon Roland Bull Durham. They considered a

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ton of actresses for that role. They looked at Robin Wright,

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Gwyneth Paltrow, Julianne Moore, Helen Hunt, Terry Hetcher, Elizabeth Hurley,

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cheryln Flynn, and then Christina Applegate was considered. But some

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people think that they were looking at her for doctor

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Satler or maybe like an older version of Lex. It's

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kind of a strange deal. She was young at the time,

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she was like twenty, right, But they ended up going

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with Lord Dern, who had been in Wild Heart. And

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you may know her from The Last Jedi.

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask you about that one. How'd

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you feel about her performance in the Last Jedi?

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Speaker 4: Jason, we don't talk about the Last Jedi. Uh in

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her purple hair, we don't talk about the Last Jedi.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen Wild at Heart. No, it's pretty weird.

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It's pretty weird. This is David Lynch movie, of course.

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Speaker 4: And David Lynch makes the weirdest movies.

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Speaker 3: He's got some weird stuff, he really does, and it's

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it can be amazing and weird and then it can

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be just plain old weird. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Okay. For the role of doctor Malcolm, this is where

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it gets super interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Spielberg says that he wanted Jeff Goldblum, he offered Jeff Goblum,

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and he got Jeff Goblum, And so that really is

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the end of it, except listen to these guys that

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the casting director wanted, all right, okay, Michael Keaton, Michael J. Fox,

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Johnny Yeah, Michael J.

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Speaker 3: Fox, Yes, Yeah, that's weird.

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Speaker 4: Okay, go ahead, Johnny Depp, Yeah, Ted Danson, Steve Guttenberg.

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Speaker 3: Tom Selick, a baby.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead, and just offer everybody a three minute a baby.

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But here the person who did the best in the audition,

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this will blow you away. You're ready for this. Jim Carrey.

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Jim Carrey was a fraction of a hair away from

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getting the role of doctor Gan Malcolm.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy.

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Speaker 4: I think he would have been great. I think that

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that would have been cool. It would have changed the

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trajectory of his career. Right after this, he did a

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Centura and The Mask and Dumb and Dumber, and he's

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off down that path. And I'm thankful for that. I

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enjoyed those movies, but it would have been interesting at

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least to see him as that kind of rule.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but Jeff Goldbloom, like he set the mold for

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the sexy geek, right, Yeah, I mean, was was nerd

402
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them ever as sexy as Jeff Goldbloom was in Jurassic

403
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Part I don't think.

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Speaker 4: So he got buffed up and yeah.

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Speaker 3: And he's supposed to be like a math nerd and

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he comes and he's all tan and got his long black,

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curly hair and all flirting with the ladies and touching

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their hands and stuff and rubbing their hair and cheek

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in a weird kind of creepy way, but still somehow

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sexy because he's so pretty.

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Speaker 4: All Right, the role of John Hammond. When they were

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casting this, they wanted somebody to be a dark Walt Disney.

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I thought that was really cool.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, the character in the book was certainly a darker,

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much much, much darker version of John Hammond than then

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it is portrayed in the movie. Have you read it? Yeah? Yeah,

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what did you think?

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Speaker 4: It may be the only book I've ever read where

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I think the movie is better than the book.

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Speaker 3: Did you see the movie first? No, that's impressive.

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Speaker 4: I just think that the movie was streamline and it's

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just action like a bullet, right, And there's a whole

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lot of chaos theory and sort of scientific bs that

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I didn't.

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Speaker 3: Care about, right, And and Spielberg has got a knack

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for doing that. I don't think he obviously did it

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with Ready Player one, which we saw together.

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Speaker 4: But we need to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a shame podcast, right, But just to speak

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about that on Jaws, you know, after he got done

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reading the book, Spielberg said, I kind of wanted the

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shark to win.

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Speaker 3: Like nobody, no character in the book was actually likable.

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That's why the film is really nothing like the book

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at all. He even told Dreyfus, He's like, don't read

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the book, Okay, just don't read it.

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Speaker 4: That makes me want to read the book. I want to.

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I want to order Jaws and check it out.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to a Jurassic Book.

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Speaker 4: The role for John Hammond, you know who he originally wanted,

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Sean Connory.

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Speaker 3: Shan Connery, And I gotta say, I think he'd have

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been awesome. I really if I just imagine him with

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his what's the Jungle movie that he was in doctor.

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Speaker 4: Something or other, medicine man, medicine man.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the medicine man is right. So I just

447
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imagined him with his medicine man, long white hair and

448
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a pony tail, you know, and his khaki vest saying

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welcome to a Jurassic Park. I would get, yeah, that's

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awesome when this guy does it. I'm kind of like,

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that's a little cheesy, little, a little round cheesy guy.

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But doctor so to blasphemy Richard Attenberg. I mean, he

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did a good job, but.

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Speaker 4: He did h Yeah, Sean Connery, I.

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Speaker 3: Think he would have. I think he would have made

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a better like I'm a billionaire developing a park kind

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of character. But I don't think he would have been

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as good as the lovable old grandfather that he also

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has to be in this movie.

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Speaker 4: That's true. That's true. So Richard Attenborough had been in

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the Great Escape and A Bridge too Far, but he

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had pretty much been a director so he had directed

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the movie Gandhi and he was in the middle of

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finishing Chaplain, which stars Robert Downey Junior, which is a

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great movie. But he was pretty much a director. And

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when Spielberg called him, he's like, well, I'm in post

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production for Chaplain. He said, don't worry, we'll work around

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your schedule. If you want to come back and shoot

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00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,880
this part, we'll let you have the time you need

470
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,000
to finish Chaplain. And so he said, great, got me

471
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,440
in the part of Muldoon. They hired a guy named

472
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:53,960
Bob Peck. Shootah, that guy. Yeah, he did a good job.

473
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,480
They considered Tom Sizemore.

474
00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can kind of see that. Yeah, I really

475
00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:00,319
feel like that they didn't do that character just in

476
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,799
this movie. I felt like he could have been way

477
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:03,880
more than he was in this movie.

478
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn't do a whole lot.

479
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 3: And he's I mean, he's supposed to be the Australian

480
00:22:07,559 --> 00:22:11,279
like out back safari hunter man, the great White hunter, right,

481
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,799
and this guy he's okay, he's just not. I don't know,

482
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:15,240
he's just not.

483
00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 4: At the beginning his watch, a construction worker gets eaten

484
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:19,839
by a raptor.

485
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 3: Right, you have the ability to make dinosaurs from mosquitoes,

486
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,279
but you can't get a cage that locks. Okay.

487
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 4: So for the part of Lex, Arianna Richards was hired

488
00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:35,640
based mostly because she could scream really loud and really long.

489
00:22:35,759 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she did a great job at that. She's

490
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:38,960
a good screamer.

491
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,559
Speaker 4: Okay. The part of Tim was played by Joseph Mazzello,

492
00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:45,160
and he had actually auditioned for a part in Spielberg's

493
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,079
previous movie Hook, but they thought he was too young.

494
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,440
But when this part came along, they thought he'll be

495
00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:53,880
just the right age, and they actually flip flopped Lex

496
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,680
and Tim's age.

497
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,599
Speaker 3: From the book, Tim is the older brother and to

498
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,119
yeher hacker, hacker.

499
00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:06,079
Speaker 4: I'm a hacker. I'm a vegetarian, okay. And then mister

500
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,880
Arnold played by Samuel L.

501
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 3: MF.

502
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 4: Jackson.

503
00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:13,839
Speaker 3: Are we going to talk about the bloodsucking lawyer? We're

504
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:15,160
going to talk about Martin Fierro.

505
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 4: Sure.

506
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 3: So he got cast obviously, and I mean one of

507
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,680
the most memorable roles, and not necessarily for his performance,

508
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,240
but because he's the first guy to get eaten by

509
00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:29,599
t Rex. Love it. And how awesome was that. I

510
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,240
was listening to the soundtrack show on Jurassic Park. Shout

511
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,000
out to d. A. W. Collins, But he's talking about

512
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,559
the first time he's he saw the movies, Like when

513
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:43,319
it comes to that part the t Rex eats the attorney,

514
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:45,640
the guy in the middle row stands up and just

515
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,000
starts shouting, how the fuck did they do that? And

516
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:55,400
it's just so Yeah. Martin Fierro, he if you've seen

517
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,559
Playing Drains and Automobiles, he's got a hilarious little bit

518
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,119
part as the motel clerk and it's great.

519
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,839
Speaker 4: Do you have thirty two dollars?

520
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,079
Speaker 3: And I've watched.

521
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 4: And finally, we can't do this without talking about Dennis Nedrie,

522
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:17,359
who was played by Wayne Knight. Spielberg actually Newman, that's right.

523
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:21,160
Spielberg watched the movie Based Againstinct and really liked this

524
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,160
guy in Based Againstinct and he stayed and he waited

525
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,599
for the credits to roll, and then he was like, Okay,

526
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,880
that guy right there, Wayne Knight, write that down and

527
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:29,640
that's how he got the part.

528
00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 3: That's great and he was perfect. He was a perfect

529
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,759
little slide ball on this one too. Uh uh.

530
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:38,319
Speaker 4: He really does. I like that line where they're like,

531
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,799
find Dennis Nedrie checked the vending machines. All right, So

532
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:45,359
that's going to wrap it up for our discussion on

533
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,200
the cast and crew. Let's dive into the production of

534
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:50,119
both of these movies.

535
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:50,599
Speaker 3: Ready.

536
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,039
Speaker 4: Flipping back to Jaws. Production started in Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

537
00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:58,519
It was used as Amity Island, primarily because even twelve

538
00:24:58,599 --> 00:25:00,799
miles out to see there was a sandy bottom that

539
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,640
was only thirty feet down and they needed an area

540
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,079
that they could get the mechanical shark. And you couldn't

541
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:06,400
see a.

542
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,559
Speaker 3: Coastline, right, and when the mechanical shark sinks to the bottom,

543
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:10,519
you don't have that far to go.

544
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:12,839
Speaker 4: Which he did all the time.

545
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: Right.

546
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 4: So the big story about production in Jaws was that

547
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,279
the shark, the star of the movie, hardly ever worked right.

548
00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 3: The shark is not working. The shark is not working.

549
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,759
Speaker 4: This movie had so many production problems it's really interesting

550
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,720
to me. Not only did they pull off a complete movie,

551
00:25:33,799 --> 00:25:37,200
but they managed to make an incredible movie for the ages.

552
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:38,880
The crew had so much trouble with it that they

553
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,079
called it Flaws rather than Jaws. Spielberg called it the

554
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:46,599
Great White Turd. You know, you mentioned the first day

555
00:25:46,599 --> 00:25:48,680
the model shark was used it sank to the bottom

556
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,200
of the ocean. This is the really interesting part, Okay.

557
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,200
The fact that the shark did not work caused them

558
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,119
to have to get creative. Yeah, so originally the scene

559
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,400
at the beginning with Susan maclinney, we were going to

560
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,319
have a shark that you could see attacking her. Couldn't

561
00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:05,359
get it to work, and so they said, well, that's

562
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,079
all right, we'll just pull on a rope a few times,

563
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,000
drag her under the water and show screen blood murder

564
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:10,599
and it'll be effective. And it was.

565
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 3: It was better, and they remember that lesson when it

566
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,519
gets to Jurassic Park time. Because even in that first

567
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:18,839
scene where the dinosaur is attacking and you get the

568
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,960
extreme close up on Muldoon's teeth, even though you can

569
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,400
see the tonsils, you do not see the dinosaur.

570
00:26:28,519 --> 00:26:30,839
Speaker 4: That's right, Okay. So at the beginning we did talk

571
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,200
briefly about the first kill, Susan Becklinny. When they were

572
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,119
shooting the part of the dead body, they had a fake.

573
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 3: Hand and they got a fake hand to look.

574
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 4: Right, the fake hand looked fake.

575
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: They buried one of the assistant directors, buried her under

576
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,319
the sand and just had her stick her hand out,

577
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:49,400
so you've got a realistic looking hand and once again,

578
00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:53,480
the what you can't see is more frightening than what

579
00:26:53,519 --> 00:26:56,359
you can see. And they do it so well because

580
00:26:56,519 --> 00:26:59,960
Brody is there with the teenager and then the deput

581
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,200
is blowing his whistle in panic and vomiting on the

582
00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:08,440
side of the dune there because of what he's looking at.

583
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:11,720
And we don't see what he's looking at other than

584
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:15,000
a few fingers coming out of the sand. But with

585
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,400
that hidden image, we let our imaginations run wild on

586
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,319
how gruesome this scene is, that it's causing this deputed

587
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,279
paniclick it is ye yep, it's brilliant. It is accidental brilliance.

588
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:26,799
Once again.

589
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 4: Also, one of the things that they did sort of

590
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,599
out of necessity, is they got a box that they

591
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,519
made around the camera and they set the camera at

592
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,839
water level, like what you would see if you're barely

593
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,559
treading water.

594
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: Spielboirer wanted to give the audience the perception of being

595
00:27:43,519 --> 00:27:46,640
in the water, right because when are you the most

596
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,160
scared of a shark when your head is above the

597
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,039
water and the rest of you is underneath the water,

598
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,759
right where you feel like you're vulnerable. If you're from

599
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:56,839
the shore. If you just you know, if everything's being

600
00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:00,319
fun from the shore, you don't have that fear. But

601
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:03,480
you've got you know, when you can't see your body,

602
00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:05,960
when you're out there and vulnerable, that's when you're most afraid.

603
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,000
And so that's why he wanted that perspective super effective.

604
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: So here's a couple of things. I want to talk about.

605
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:13,880
Ben Gardner's head.

606
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fantastic. So the so what happens with Ben

607
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,079
Gardner's head is Spielberg when they're doing their previewing of

608
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,880
the movie. There is such a reaction at that scene.

609
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,920
And let's just talk about that scene for just a second, okay,

610
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,160
because you have this unbelievably brilliant sequence that begins with

611
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,200
this high angle shot of Roy Scheider dropping fish entrails

612
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,200
into the water as shark bait. And he's mad because

613
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,079
they've been out there and they haven't seen a shark.

614
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,799
And you know, Shaw keeps kind of acting like he's

615
00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:46,880
his favorite, but he gets all the crap jobs right,

616
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,079
and so he's there and he's ticked off because he's

617
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:53,160
having to do the grunt work and he's the freaking

618
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,960
chief of police. I mean this is I can understand, right,

619
00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,759
and this I mean, let me just say this polite company,

620
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,720
you would say, you know, a pinon contest, but this

621
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:08,720
entire movie is measured. I mean, that's what the whole

622
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,960
movie is about. It's about the masculinity fights that go

623
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:15,599
on between the Mayor and Brody and Hooper and Shaw

624
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,319
and Hooper and Brody and all of those guys. But

625
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:20,519
he's so he's ticked off that he's got to be

626
00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:24,160
shoveling these fish guts out into the water, and he says,

627
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,400
why don't you guys come down here and shovel some

628
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,519
of this, And just at the moment that you laugh

629
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:36,319
that you're just about to laugh, the shark's head comes

630
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:39,920
out of the water and you swallow that laugh into

631
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:46,839
a shriek and you're like, oh, and that reaction, Spielberg said, Okay,

632
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,119
I gotta get one more of those into this movie.

633
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,279
And so that's where we get Ben Gardner's head right, right.

634
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,200
So they didn't, you know, they filmed all of this

635
00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:58,960
footage in the ocean and then they're done, right, they're

636
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,160
in post production there, they're editing, they're doing sound, they're

637
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,480
doing stuff like that, and he wants to film an

638
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:08,680
underwater scene. Again. Well, he's over at vernon Field's house

639
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:11,759
and she's got a pool, and so they make a

640
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:14,559
fake boat, they stick it in the pool and they

641
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,079
dump milk into the pool to give it the murky effect.

642
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: And it's perfect.

643
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:25,799
Speaker 3: It's fantastic. And that scene, man, you are locked in

644
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,440
just like he is, at the size of that tooth

645
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,559
and then all of a sudden, boiling there's ahead with

646
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,720
one eyeball coming out.

647
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 4: Spielberg said, you only get one really great scare per movie,

648
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,680
because from that point on the audience was on guard.

649
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reaction to the shark was about half what

650
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:45,079
it was before they put that scene. Yeah, after they

651
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:47,400
put the scene in, because people were they were prepared

652
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,720
for another scare. But I mean that is part of

653
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:53,000
the joy of the movie, is that tension that you feel.

654
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:56,319
I mean, yes, the scares are great, but you know

655
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,400
you're watching a great scary movie if you are on edge,

656
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:02,799
and if you've seen that head pop out, you're gonna

657
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,119
be on edge for the rest of the movie.

658
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: Here's the other thing about that, when that shark makes

659
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,640
it appearance, when he's like, hey, you can come down

660
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,240
here and shove some of those this the shark appears.

661
00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:14,799
First of all, you get a great look at him

662
00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:17,880
for the first time the entire movie, and you don't

663
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,519
have John Williams music training you to know that here

664
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:24,599
he comes. Right, So the entire movie you see the

665
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:27,279
fin you get a perspective, and you hear the music right,

666
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:29,960
dun't dun dun dun dun dun, and it's like warning

667
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,119
you here he is. He's in the water, he's close,

668
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,680
he's coming. That moment, you don't get any of that,

669
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,160
and so it's a complete warning music.

670
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So they when they originally filmed this one,

671
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,559
Chief Brody has the most memorable line of the movie

672
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,359
immediately after it, which was a Roy Scheider ad lib.

673
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:48,039
It was totally him. It was not in the script.

674
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,279
He stumbles backwards and he says, you're gonna need a

675
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:54,319
bigger boat, and it is it's the best line in

676
00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:57,400
the movie. But the way they had initially filmed it,

677
00:31:57,559 --> 00:32:01,039
he delivered it almost immediately after the shark, after the

678
00:32:01,039 --> 00:32:03,680
shark's head pops off, and nobody heard it because everyone

679
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,960
was still screaming from having seen So they added like

680
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:12,400
ten solid seconds of film in between the shark popping

681
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,279
up and him saying the line just so that people

682
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,359
didn't miss that awesome one.

683
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:19,839
Speaker 4: I've got three big things I really want to talk about.

684
00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:20,519
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay.

685
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:24,839
Speaker 4: The first thing is Lee Fierro slapping again and again

686
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:25,359
and again.

687
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: Chief Brody Yes, and god rest is sol Lee Fierro.

688
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,160
We are recording this in May. She passed away last

689
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,279
month from the coronavirus. No way, I didn't know, Yeah

690
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:37,799
said no, Yeah, she just just passed away. And it

691
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,279
was I read an interesting story today. You know, the

692
00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:43,920
actor who played her son, Alex Kidner. Thirty years after

693
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,920
the movie has been made, she wanders into a restaurant

694
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,960
and sees on the menu the Alex Kittner Sandwich, and

695
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,000
she says to the waitress, She's like, oh, you know,

696
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:57,480
I was in this movie and he's he's like, oh really,

697
00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:59,160
what part did you play. She's like, actually, I played

698
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,599
Alex's mom. And they're like no way and rush off.

699
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,680
And just a few seconds later, the guy who played

700
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,039
Alex comes out. He's the owner of the restaurant and

701
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:10,400
he hasn't seen her in thirty years, and it's this

702
00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:13,480
fantastic coincidental reunion that they have very.

703
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 4: Sweet that's really cool, all right, So she had to

704
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,960
slap him again and again and again. They did seventeen

705
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,799
takes of this, right.

706
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 3: She couldn't do a fake slap. She couldn't do it.

707
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: Bake, so she hit him so hard she knocked his

708
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,880
glasses off a few times. One time she broke characters.

709
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,960
She's like, oh God, I'm so sorry, and he's like,

710
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:34,160
don't don't be keep doing it. It'll be worth it.

711
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: Oh again. One of the most memorable scenes in the

712
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,279
whole movie. Yeah my boy is dead.

713
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: And for the next forty years she had fans coming

714
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:44,279
up to her and said, will you please slap me?

715
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? I have kind of, I don't know, a kind

716
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:53,559
of weird special affection for her because she was a

717
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:57,960
community theater lady in a small town, and after this movie,

718
00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:00,839
she was a community theater lady small town. I mean,

719
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,680
she teach acting in this little town and do small plays.

720
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,559
But this was her one. You know, brush was stardom,

721
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:10,039
and I encountered so many of those folks in acting.

722
00:34:10,599 --> 00:34:12,679
It's just yeah, when I read about her passing, it

723
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,239
kind of hit mark strings a little bit.

724
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes me sad. The next thing I want

725
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,519
to talk about is Cooper, quint and Brody are on

726
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:23,719
the boat and there was a scene where they shot

727
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,480
a harpoon into the shark and they hooked it to

728
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:26,639
the back of the boat and they were going to

729
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,760
try and tire the shark out, and the shark runs

730
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,719
and they actually jerks the boat in such a way

731
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,199
that they sort of tumble and it gives a real

732
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,880
big pull on the boat. Right, So they actually to

733
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,079
film this, they hooked up a speedboat and they screwed

734
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,639
in a islet into this side of the boat, and

735
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,719
they hooked to a pulley down on the bottom and

736
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,800
they toild the speedboat to take off, and when when

737
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,840
it pulled the slack, it jerked the boat and it

738
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,320
was really effective looking on screen, but they jerked a

739
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,840
big hole in the bottom of the boat.

740
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: Right. They had actually built two orchids. They had one

741
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:03,280
that was supposed to be the boat that they use,

742
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,440
and they had one that was supposed to be the

743
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,840
boat that sinks. And then they do this little bit

744
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,719
with the speedboat, pull a hole in the one that's

745
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,800
not supposed to sink, and it starts.

746
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,159
Speaker 4: Sinking, dropping like the Titanic. I mean, it's going down

747
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,000
like a rock and yeah, Bilburgh's on the speaker, going

748
00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:20,480
get the actors off the boat. Get the actors off

749
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,920
the boat. But they have high dollars sound equipment on

750
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,239
the boat, and the sound guy's like, f the actors, get.

751
00:35:26,039 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 3: The sound equipment right, Dryfus is like, he's a seventy

752
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,719
year old man. To save him.

753
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 4: I'm fine.

754
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. They actually they had some film footage that went

755
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,119
into the water as well, and they're like, oh crap,

756
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:41,320
it's ruined. But as it turns out, back in the seventies,

757
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,719
film was bathed in a saline solution and they sent

758
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,320
it off to a film lab and not a bit

759
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:49,280
of it was lost.

760
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 4: Did not lose one frame.

761
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: See.

762
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 4: Okay, this is the type of crap that I would

763
00:35:53,039 --> 00:35:55,159
do with my twenty year old friends. Okay, yeah, we're

764
00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:57,920
making a multimillion dollar movie. But I got a great idea.

765
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,480
We'll just screw a big thing to the side of

766
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,679
the boat and we'll send a speedboat off and jerk it.

767
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,880
Oh whoops, pulled a hole in it. I mean, that's

768
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,960
just dumb, stupid twenty year old stuff.

769
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

770
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 4: Okay, And the last thing that I really really feel

771
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,239
like we need to talk about Spielberg sent Ron and

772
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,880
Valerie Taylor to Australia to film real great white sharks.

773
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,639
Speaker 3: We talked about them and talked about them in our

774
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,800
last episode. They were the the spear fishermen turned documentary

775
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,119
filmmakers that devoted their lives to catching footage of real

776
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,679
great white sharks.

777
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,559
Speaker 4: Right, this is this is a super cool story. So

778
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,719
they go down to Australia and they're looking around and

779
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,480
they're like, hey, we've got great whites down here, but

780
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:40,599
the biggest we got are like fifteen sixteen footers. Well,

781
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:42,400
the great white in the movie is supposed to be

782
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,400
a twenty five footer. So Spider was like, well, why

783
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,280
don't you get somebody that's super small and make the

784
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,920
cage really small and that way the shark looked bigger, right,

785
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:51,519
makes sense?

786
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 3: Right?

787
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:54,599
Speaker 4: Okay, so they drop.

788
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:55,599
Speaker 3: This find a small man.

789
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 4: It's a jockey. He's like four foot six or something

790
00:36:58,840 --> 00:36:59,840
like the real small guy.

791
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, so he's come in and he's like, i'll

792
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,320
do it, I'll do anything, and they put him in

793
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,920
there and he's in there with real sharks. I mean, yes,

794
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,079
they're only twelve feet, but they're twelve feet. Yeah, that's

795
00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:12,400
freaking huge. I mean, that's twice as big as a man.

796
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:14,199
I mean, that's scary, scary.

797
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 4: Stuff, especially if you're four foot tall. It seems really big.

798
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,159
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, just as an explanation, you've got a limited

799
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:26,039
amount of air in your tank, and if you're scared,

800
00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:28,800
you use that air up way faster. Well, not only

801
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,719
did they have to make the man smaller and the

802
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,920
cage smaller, they had to make the tank smaller. So

803
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,960
they've got this tiny man with his tiny tank in

804
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,039
this very very scary situation, and like fifteen minutes, he'd

805
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:41,199
be like, amout of air matter hair.

806
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: So they pull him out. They pull him out, and

807
00:37:46,559 --> 00:37:49,760
while he is on the boat, the shark gets entangled

808
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,159
in the cage and proceeds to freak out and roll

809
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:57,039
and destroy the cage and the lines. And while they're

810
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,159
filming all this and they're like, this is incredible shot

811
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:00,599
right here.

812
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,679
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like it couldn't be any better, right, right,

813
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:07,239
couldn't be any better unless the actor had been in

814
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,960
the cage at the time. The cage was empty. And

815
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:12,360
so for the script, the script called for Hooper to

816
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,239
die at this point, right, Yeah, Hooper was supposed to die,

817
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,800
but They've got this brilliant footage of an empty cage

818
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,760
and it's not like today where you can just computer

819
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,119
digitally stick somebody back in there. And so what did

820
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:26,119
Spielberg decide to do.

821
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,039
Speaker 4: He said, well, the Shark's going to rewrite the script.

822
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:31,960
Hooper is going to swim off and live. We cannot

823
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:34,440
let this footage go unused. And you know what, it

824
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,000
makes it to the movie, and it's incredible.

825
00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad that Hooper lives. I do it

826
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,119
would have it would have been a bummer. I mean,

827
00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:43,480
I'm I don't know. I just maybe it's because that's

828
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,639
what you know, I've grown up with. But yeah, they've

829
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:48,400
got to they've got to be paddling back to shore together.

830
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:51,119
Speaker 4: Right, yeap? All right, So that's that's sort of what

831
00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:53,280
we got production wise on Jaws. Let's flip over to

832
00:38:53,280 --> 00:39:00,480
the drafts and park. Jurassic Park started production August twenty fourth,

833
00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:03,519
nineteen ninety two, in Kawai. The scene that takes place

834
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:07,679
in Montana was actually shot within a two hour drive

835
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:10,639
of la It was in the Mohave Desert, and it

836
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:12,719
saved him three hundred fifty grand just shooting it that

837
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,800
close to the studio, but most of it was shot

838
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,599
in Kawai. While they were shooting, Spielberg was determined not

839
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:20,679
to get behind schedule. So he had gone way over

840
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,920
scheduled with Jaws and and some other movies that had

841
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,159
kind of gotten away from him, and so he kept

842
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:27,679
it to like four or five takes, and after four

843
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,960
or five takes he's like, Okay, we're moving on. And

844
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,880
that kept everybody disciplined. They were moving so quickly that

845
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,159
they got like the construction company that was building sets

846
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:40,000
ahead of them. That guy says, we call it a

847
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,440
successful We never see the crew. Well, there are several

848
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,719
scenes where like there's a guy in the back like

849
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,599
putting the finishing touches while they're getting ready to film

850
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,079
a scene. So back to Kawai for a second. All right, Yeah,

851
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,719
So I know that we mentioned kind of in our

852
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,559
Raiders Lost arc episode that I had recently taken a

853
00:39:56,599 --> 00:39:59,280
trip to Kawai. It's the most beautiful place on Earth.

854
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,960
I loved it there, right. I wish I would have

855
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:06,920
paid more attention to like shooting locations and stuff. I

856
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,840
did see some stuff, but I think I could have

857
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,519
seen more. I drove right by the spot where Dennis

858
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:16,360
Nedri says Dodson. Dodson, we've got Dodson here, but I

859
00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:17,400
was right by that place.

860
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:18,199
Speaker 3: But anybody cares.

861
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:22,679
Speaker 4: Nobody cares. Don't get cheap on me, Dickson. But they

862
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,960
built an elect that that giant fence, that giant electrical

863
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:29,280
fence that Timmy gets zapped on. So that scene was

864
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,679
shot like in Wyamea canyon, which seems strange to think,

865
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,079
but it's like the second biggest canyon in the United States.

866
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,480
And so they had to haul all this construction equipment

867
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:41,760
to build this giant forty foot fence. If you look

868
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,800
closely at the screen, you can see both edges of

869
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,599
the fence, like literally it's only twenty feet white.

870
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: Right, but these can climb over when you could have

871
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,519
just walked around, walk around the edge of it.

872
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:57,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they had to haul all this construction stuff,

873
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,719
like for days and days and days deep into the

874
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,440
jump to build this humongous fence. The guys who built

875
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,239
it were like, people do not understand the effort and

876
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,159
time it took to build that sucker and make it

877
00:41:11,199 --> 00:41:14,960
look real and right and everything. And they got a

878
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,360
couple of seeds, They're like, okay, moving on.

879
00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: I wonder how little is done on that side of

880
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,440
things anymore. It seems like everything is digital, largely because

881
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,159
of this movie. Now that it's not even like all

882
00:41:25,199 --> 00:41:27,400
those costs are cut, because why build it when you

883
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,480
can just generate a perfectly good looking one with a computer.

884
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 4: As I mentioned before, I visited Kawhi, and while I

885
00:41:34,519 --> 00:41:38,480
was there in twenty sixteen, I had several people mentioned

886
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,639
to me Hurricane and Nikki, Well, that happened in nineteen

887
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,320
ninety two. That actually happened on the last day of

888
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,800
shooting for Jurassic Park.

889
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 3: Throw back to our Raiders of the Lost Arc versus

890
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,639
Back to the Future episode in case you haven't heard it,

891
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,760
The pilot with the pet snake, Reggie.

892
00:41:55,519 --> 00:42:00,199
Speaker 4: Jack tell us the who he started the engine.

893
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,679
Speaker 3: And I mentioned then did I couldn't figure out why

894
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:03,880
he wasn't in the rest of the movie. Seemed like

895
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,119
such a great guy, and then he wasn't in any

896
00:42:05,159 --> 00:42:06,760
other movies. So I thought they did such a good job.

897
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,760
Because it turns out he's not an actor. He is

898
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,880
a pilot. He was the pilot that was helping them

899
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,519
scout locations. They needed a pilot for the movie, and

900
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:15,800
they said, Fred, would you like to be our pilot,

901
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:19,079
and he said, sure, sounds great. So fast forward eleven

902
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:23,800
years and Hurricane Anik comes in and they suddenly need

903
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,440
to fly people out and the only guy who happens

904
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,599
to be flying into a hurricane is Fred Sorenson, the

905
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:34,760
guy who played Jacques and Steven Spielberg Raiders the Lost Art.

906
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 4: Okay, so this is a great story. I love the story. So,

907
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,639
Kathleen Kennedy, they're set up to shoot the last day

908
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:43,280
of shooting it for Jurassic Park. It's a dead on

909
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:47,440
hit for Kawhi. So they the whole cast and crew

910
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,360
go below ground for their hotel and they waited out

911
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,119
with every other person in flip flops and swimsuits, right right.

912
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 3: Jeff Clobloom describes it as terrifying and boring all the

913
00:42:58,800 --> 00:42:59,400
same time.

914
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: Terrifying and boring, and Richard Attenborough slept through the whole thing,

915
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,440
and Spielberg's like, how could you sleep through this? He's like,

916
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,559
my dear boy, I survived the Blitz. So hurricane and

917
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:13,519
Niki takes the turn north and it's a dead hit

918
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,159
for Kawhi. They actually had one more day of shooting,

919
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,360
which I found interesting. I was like, well, what were

920
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,199
they going to shoot. They were going to shoot the

921
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,679
Gala Mimus herd. They originally were going to shoot that

922
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,039
in Kawai. They later had to come back two weeks

923
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:27,480
later and shoot it in o Wahu because that hurricane

924
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,480
had knocked down all the trees in Kawai. And they

925
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,760
were going to shoot mister Arnold's death scene. The Raptors

926
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,119
were gonna get Samuel L. Jackson and he was supposed

927
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:37,400
to fly back, and they thought, well, now we'll just

928
00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:39,679
throw a fake arm in there and we'll we'll just

929
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,880
move on, you know. Once the hurricane moved through, they

930
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,639
realized it's complete devastation. But she's got to get all

931
00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:47,079
these people off the island, so she runs to the

932
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:49,880
airport to see what's going on. When she gets there,

933
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,480
she realizes there's nobody really getting in and out of

934
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,599
here except for healthcare workers and people that are helping

935
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:59,000
with the hurricane. And so she's weighing her options, trying

936
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,519
to figure out how to to work this out, and

937
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:03,679
this guy comes up to her and says, hey, do

938
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,639
you know who I am? And she turns around looks

939
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:08,039
at him. She's like no, and he says, does the

940
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:11,519
line that's my pet snake, Reggie mean anything to you.

941
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,039
And that's our guy Fred freaking Sorenson there to rescue

942
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,760
the crew.

943
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: Of Jurassic Park.

944
00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 4: So when the t Rex is attacking the car, of course,

945
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,320
you have the animatronic t Rex, and you have the

946
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,440
cue the kids. All right, kids scream and Steven Spilber gonna.

947
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 3: Have a megaphone.

948
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:37,199
Speaker 4: You're like, he's doing all that, and it made the

949
00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:41,119
cast crack up, right, uh huh to have this gigantic

950
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:46,559
animatronic t Rex and you have Steven Spielberg's boice. Okay,

951
00:44:46,679 --> 00:44:48,840
let's talk about the ending for Jurassic Park.

952
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 3: Do you know about the story, well, I mean I

953
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,880
know that the ending was different like the I mean,

954
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,119
obviously John Hammond lives and there wasn't this notion that

955
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:01,360
the t Rex would come in and saved them from

956
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,960
the raptors. That was something that they came up when

957
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,400
they realized how good the digital design was. When they

958
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,639
realized how good the CGI was, they rewrote the end

959
00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:13,320
of the movie. And not only did they do this

960
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,840
awesome CGI of course with and it's that may be

961
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,000
the best I mean, because you don't have them even

962
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,519
in the dark like you can. You can fake a

963
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:24,679
lot when something's in the dark, right, but this is

964
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,519
a brightly lit room and they still all of the

965
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:32,280
dinosaurs look very real, very active, interacting with the skeleton,

966
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,239
smashing it up. It's all awesome. And then you have

967
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,199
that awesome scene where the t rex roars and the

968
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,199
giant banner comes floating down saying dinosaur earlier.

969
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,199
Speaker 4: You just talking about that scene gives me Chelsea like,

970
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,239
that's like my favorite scene in the entire movie where

971
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,599
the t rex like defeats the veloss of raptors and

972
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:54,119
like roars in victory.

973
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 3: The t rex roar was a combination of a dog,

974
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,039
a penguin, a tiger and alligator and an elephant.

975
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: Well, whatever it is, it it's awesome.

976
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: All right. The I believe that the raptors I think

977
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:11,639
were dolphin and some other sound some sort of oh,

978
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,679
a lion. I think it was like a mix between

979
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:16,159
a dolphin and a lion of all things.

980
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 4: I think it's like horny dolphins.

981
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: Like the it was did you just say horny dolphins?

982
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,199
Speaker 4: Horny dolphins. I think they were like in the process

983
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:31,719
of mating or something, And yeah, okay, he could you

984
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,119
could you play the dolphins out for me.

985
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:36,559
Speaker 3: No, no, no, not that one, the one where they're screwing.

986
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,599
You play the one where they're screwing, because that's what

987
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:40,840
I need. I think that's the perfect sound for a

988
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:47,599
lost raptor. All right, that does it for this episode

989
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,239
of the Surely You Can't Be Serious Podcast. Please join

990
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,440
us next week when we dive into Part three. Dive

991
00:46:53,760 --> 00:47:00,199
just catch that nice we dive into part three of

992
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,840
the Jaws Versus Jurassic Part discussion. I am so excited.

993
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,960
We're going to talk about soundtrack, We're going to talk

994
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,639
about character development, we're going to talk about what happened

995
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:11,639
in the aftermath of these movies, and then we're going

996
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:13,039
to give final judgment.

997
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:16,159
Speaker 4: I can't wait to talk about the USS Indianapolis scene.

998
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:17,360
We haven't talked about that yet.

999
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 3: I'm very, very excited to talk about that as well.

1000
00:47:20,119 --> 00:47:21,639
Speaker 4: Should we sing? Should we sing the.

1001
00:47:21,599 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 3: Song Farewell and do to ye fair Spanish ladies? Farewell

1002
00:47:27,519 --> 00:47:31,000
and I do to ye Ladies of Spain? And I

1003
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:34,480
don't know the rest, so you'll have to listen next time.

1004
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:38,440
Here how it goes when I sing it again? Ah,

1005
00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:49,400
that's good. And all music, images and movie clips are

1006
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,679
used for the purposes of commentary and education, in conjunction

1007
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,079
with the fair Use agreement under the US copyright law