WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>And we're live, so welcome back everyone to another episode

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<v Speaker 1>of Adventures in DevOps. This week, it's Nathan Goulding, current

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<v Speaker 1>SVP of Engineering at Vulture and with a previously long

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<v Speaker 1>history of product and engineering architecture background.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome, Thank you, Warren. It's great to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I have to say I'm pretty excited because

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things I saw on Vulture is that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I hope you can give us a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more of the rundown here is all about high performance

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<v Speaker 1>compute in the cloud. I mean, when I think about

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<v Speaker 1>what your company is doing, it's infrastructure and on the

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<v Speaker 1>back end, bar metal, et cetera. And that for me

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<v Speaker 1>is a whole area of technology that I just really

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<v Speaker 1>have never gotten into. So maybe you can tell me

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit more about, you know, high level what

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<v Speaker 1>they've been doing and how you got into it. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, So, you know, I guess maybe starting with how

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<v Speaker 2>I got into it. You know, I actually started in

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<v Speaker 2>the infrastructure space back in two thousand and one, and

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<v Speaker 2>I ran a very small game server hosting business called

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<v Speaker 2>East Coast Gaming Network, and very small. I was just

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<v Speaker 2>out of high school. And you know, the one of

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<v Speaker 2>the key features when you talk about high performance. There's

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<v Speaker 2>many dimensions to high performance. Obviously, when you think about

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<v Speaker 2>performance through some lenses, you think about high clock speed,

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<v Speaker 2>you think about lots about you know, large amounts of memory,

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<v Speaker 2>you think about the latest and greatest GPUs. Another dimension

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<v Speaker 2>to that is latency, network latency, and you know, in

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<v Speaker 2>the gaming industry specifically, low latency is incredibly important for

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<v Speaker 2>the gamers who are you know, if you like you

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<v Speaker 2>know Vulture we host the entire Call of Duty series

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<v Speaker 2>and have for several decades. You know, the latecy of

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<v Speaker 2>the end player performance, yeah, is incredibly important. And you

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<v Speaker 2>know the no lag no frag is you know that

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<v Speaker 2>that's the you know, like the the thing that gets

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<v Speaker 2>said in the industry is like lag is the ultimate

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<v Speaker 2>killer of game performance. And so building out a So

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<v Speaker 2>so that's how I got my start, was delivering game

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<v Speaker 2>servers and and we're lagazing. You know, network latency is

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly important, and so you know, at Vulture we have

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<v Speaker 2>a strong background in you know, multiple decades of operating

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<v Speaker 2>cloud infrastructure with high performance you know, end users at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of that. And so it started with network latency,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, hosting game servers around globally for the entire

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<v Speaker 2>like I said, the entire Call of Duty series, that's

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<v Speaker 2>really evolved into offering a wide range of high performance options.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, the thing that we really lean

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<v Speaker 2>on is, uh, you know, we talk about price to

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<v Speaker 2>performance or price and performance. One of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>we really lean on, you know, being an independent cloud

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<v Speaker 2>provider is delivering better price and better performance. So you

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<v Speaker 2>know when when you compare with with some of the

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<v Speaker 2>other you know, the other cloud providers that are out there,

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<v Speaker 2>and so being able to do that means that at

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<v Speaker 2>every level of the stack, whether that's compute, storage, networking, latency,

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<v Speaker 2>those are all aspects where we look, what are the

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<v Speaker 2>things that we can do to deliver a better performing

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<v Speaker 2>product uh than than some of the other providers that

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<v Speaker 2>are out there. Because we understand that, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>are in a competitive landscape and we are an independent

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<v Speaker 2>cloud provider, we have to make sure that we actually

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<v Speaker 2>go above and beyond in many different areas to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to demonstrate that value prop to to our customers

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<v Speaker 2>and that and that's what we are are focused on.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's sutually really interesting because I've never been

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<v Speaker 1>in software game development, and I never I never wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to be, But there are lots of questions there that,

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<v Speaker 1>like you mentioned, you know, Call of Duty, that that

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<v Speaker 1>is like premiere first person shooter game out there where

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely latency is a huge aspect to having it work effectively.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, no, I know it really is. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>something where you know, those are can sometimes be You're

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<v Speaker 2>typically your you know, your your loudest and most unforgiving

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<v Speaker 2>customers are the ones who are in the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>a game and expect, you know, one hundred percent of

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<v Speaker 2>time with you know, no latency at all, and so

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<v Speaker 2>you know that really is the proving ground of being

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<v Speaker 2>able to deliver cloud infrastructure in a really robust and

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<v Speaker 2>reliable way. That you know is these are not academic

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<v Speaker 2>or theoretical problems that we are solving. These are very practical,

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<v Speaker 2>pragmatic problems for customers who are very demanding.

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<v Speaker 1>I always thought the Triple A Studios just ran a

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<v Speaker 1>terrible data center in their own warehouse and made lots

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<v Speaker 1>of mistakes. So I guess it's good to know that

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<v Speaker 1>there are actually providers out there that are dedicated to

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<v Speaker 1>solving some of the ridiculous problems of like server management

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<v Speaker 1>and having dedicated servers for individual groups of gamers on

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<v Speaker 1>at scale.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, for sure, and that's really you know, that's

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<v Speaker 2>one aspect of what we do, you know, as a

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<v Speaker 2>infrastructure provider. We we are a full fledged cloud platform

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<v Speaker 2>and so you know, when you think of the a vulture,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's the you know, like modern hyperscaler is what

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<v Speaker 2>we like to refer to us as you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>have we do have bear metal, which is like the

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<v Speaker 2>lowest level of kind of like cloud infrastructure that you

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<v Speaker 2>can get. There's no hypervisor, You're just getting access to

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<v Speaker 2>the raw metal and folks who who value that level

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<v Speaker 2>of performance and single tendency. Sometimes there are compliance requirements

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<v Speaker 2>that come along with that. You know that that's an

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<v Speaker 2>area where we can deliver that in a cloud delivery model.

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<v Speaker 2>And so, you know, with the advent of a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the you know, and this is not a new evolution,

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<v Speaker 2>this is over the last few years of these much

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<v Speaker 2>higher level services. You know that that people kind of

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<v Speaker 2>forget that, especially when serverless as a thing became much

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<v Speaker 2>more popular. Gosh was that eight or nine years ago?

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<v Speaker 2>Serverletsts became a thing, you know, you kind of as

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<v Speaker 2>a cloud infrastructure providing you chuckle a little bit, because

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<v Speaker 2>it still runs on a server. There's still a server

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<v Speaker 2>there that runs that. It's just that there's so many

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<v Speaker 2>layers of astraction above that that you kind of forget

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<v Speaker 2>about that or you don't have to think about that.

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<v Speaker 2>And so that's one of the unique challenges that we face,

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<v Speaker 2>especially as you know, I lead the engineering team. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're hiring engineers to build the cloud, and so one

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<v Speaker 2>of the challenges that we face is, you know, they're

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<v Speaker 2>born in the cloud developers who've never been in the

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<v Speaker 2>data center before. They've never accessed the lower levels of

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<v Speaker 2>infrastructure before, and so you know, how do you find somebody.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like a chicken into the egg problem. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>if people assume that there is the cloud that will

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<v Speaker 2>deploy their application, and the problem set that we're trying

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<v Speaker 2>to tackle is how do you actually build the cloud?

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<v Speaker 2>And that's that's something that is unique and something that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't find in a lot of areas.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it used to be the challenge of every

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<v Speaker 1>company to requisition purchase capital expenditures for warehouse location and

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<v Speaker 1>build up data centers. There are several blades and hire

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<v Speaker 1>ops folk to run and over time, we find companies

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<v Speaker 1>specializing in every part of the stack, and all of

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<v Speaker 1>those experts have migrated to the cloud providers, hyperscalers and

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<v Speaker 1>local country based cloud options for managing that. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you you know, if you're interested in that, those jobs

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<v Speaker 1>to exists, they're just working for our companies like yours.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly No, that's exactly right. And and you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>able to you know, be able to find those you know, individuals.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, because what we are delivering

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<v Speaker 2>is a service that allows other developers and platform engineering

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<v Speaker 2>teams to consume that in a really really seamless way.

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<v Speaker 2>Is you know, like that is the bridge. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>bridge between the underlying physical infrastructure and providing tools that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, DevOps and platform engineering teams can consume in

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<v Speaker 2>very native ways. And and so that's it's a really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting challenge to be able to do that and really

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<v Speaker 2>you know, again abstract away the complexity and the difficulty

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<v Speaker 2>and deliver on the promise of the cloud, which is

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<v Speaker 2>you know, infinite amounts of you know, infrastructure very cheaply

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<v Speaker 2>and very quickly. Immediately, you know, you need to be

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<v Speaker 2>able to scale infinitely and you need to do it

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<v Speaker 2>right now. So it's a it's no small, no small challenge.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I like that you brought up server lists

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<v Speaker 1>as an interesting comparison here. Do you find that your

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<v Speaker 1>customers also have a challenge of dealing with burst based loads,

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<v Speaker 1>which usually lend themselves to servilest solutions, or is it

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<v Speaker 1>that a lot of them understand a lot of what

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<v Speaker 1>their expectations are for volume of requests over time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a really really interesting question, and I think that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I've seen customers fall into two kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like primary categories with respect to how they think about

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<v Speaker 2>cloud infrastructure. And you know, on the one end, you

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<v Speaker 2>have folks who understand and maybe have some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>background in delivering infrastructure in some level, maybe they were

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<v Speaker 2>a platform engineer, or they were an sre or they

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<v Speaker 2>were somebody as part of the DevOps team, and they

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<v Speaker 2>understand like the pieces that compose that, and so when

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<v Speaker 2>they think about scaling, they think about many of the

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<v Speaker 2>challenges that go along with scaling, is you know, everything

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<v Speaker 2>can you know, you can stand it up very quickly once,

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<v Speaker 2>but when you actually try to scale it, then you

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<v Speaker 2>come into things like again latency and maybe in a

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<v Speaker 2>different context here, which is how long is it going

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<v Speaker 2>to take for that function to execute? Is that going

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<v Speaker 2>to where? Where is that function going to be running?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it going to be in market, is it going

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<v Speaker 2>to be in a central location? Where are the end users?

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<v Speaker 2>And so the questions that get asked are typically different.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there's a class of user who really doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>think about that and also doesn't want to think about that,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's just unapologetic about not thinking about that. It

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<v Speaker 2>says that is not my problem. My problem is delivering

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<v Speaker 2>the application. My problem is servicing my end user everything

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<v Speaker 2>with respects to how it gets deployed, where it gets deployed,

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<v Speaker 2>how much of it gets deployed is your problem, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>either cloud infrastructure provider or some you know SAZ or

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<v Speaker 2>paths a service that runs on top of that and so,

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<v Speaker 2>and it is very very unapologetic about that and just

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<v Speaker 2>says this is, you know, my job is not to

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<v Speaker 2>think about the scale and concerns that that someone else's.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you get a lot of the customers fixated on

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<v Speaker 1>like regional based services or is there like a fair

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<v Speaker 1>set that's like, well, some want localization where their potential

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<v Speaker 1>users are with this, like the gaming ones where you're

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<v Speaker 1>connecting to maybe other players in a local area to

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<v Speaker 1>reduce cross player pings and increase fps. Are there global

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<v Speaker 1>customers as well, They're like they don't want to think

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<v Speaker 1>about where their where their users are, and they still

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<v Speaker 1>have to connect and you're solving for problems like that

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<v Speaker 1>in that space as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would say that, you know, the Yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 2>typically you know kind of like falls into two categories.

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<v Speaker 2>There is those that are location sensitive that say it

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be here. That could be for many different reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>It could be because they're only serving customers in the

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<v Speaker 2>specific market and that's going to be the best performance

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<v Speaker 2>for them, or there's other concerns for regulatory so for

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<v Speaker 2>data governance, it has to be in the EU, or

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<v Speaker 2>has to be in India or some other location where

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<v Speaker 2>there's specific regulatory concerns that it needs to be in market.

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<v Speaker 2>On the flip side, you have a global software or

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<v Speaker 2>application that needs to serve end users in a specific

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<v Speaker 2>area that where you're optimizing for the lowest possible latency

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<v Speaker 2>in that market. And so in that case, you you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the the entity might be in wherever they happen to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the world, but they need to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that they're deploying into as many markets as they are.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not just gaming, you know, we get a

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<v Speaker 2>ton of other customers that are in the security space,

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<v Speaker 2>that are in the network telemetry space, where they'll take one, two,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe a handful of nodes in every single data center

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<v Speaker 2>that we have. We have thirty two regions, thirty two

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<v Speaker 2>data individual data centers around the world, three two individual regions.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll take one or a handful of nodes in every

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<v Speaker 2>single one of those locations because they're doing let's say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, eyeball network monitoring. So they'll send out probes

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<v Speaker 2>on the network, and they'll do it with us, and

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<v Speaker 2>they'll do it with a bunch of other cloud providers.

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<v Speaker 2>They might have hundreds or thousands of individual systems running

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of their global platform. As a let's say

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a network you know, latency, performance, uptime, health

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<v Speaker 2>monitoring service. They might deploy you know, thousands of probes

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<v Speaker 2>around the globe, across you know, across our entire footprint,

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<v Speaker 2>but across many other cloud providers foot prints specifically for

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<v Speaker 2>the end purpose of monitoring the network. And so so

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<v Speaker 2>in that situation, they're you know, they're they're optimizing for

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<v Speaker 2>something that's very specific for the application that's unique to them.

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<v Speaker 2>And and again like similarly for you know, if they're

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<v Speaker 2>running some you know IoT edge network for you know,

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<v Speaker 2>for an automotive company that has you know, the connected cars,

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<v Speaker 2>that's you know, again like common use case where they

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<v Speaker 2>might have something that's deployed into specific markets to reach

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<v Speaker 2>the cars that are in that specific market with the

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<v Speaker 2>lowest possible latency for for what that is. And it's

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<v Speaker 2>not self driving, Like you know, the self driving stuff

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<v Speaker 2>is never going to be you know, off the device

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to be on the vehicle. That would be catastrophic.

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<v Speaker 2>But but for other pieces of connected car where you

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<v Speaker 2>do have it off device, then then you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>want to have that in the region that the cars

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<v Speaker 2>are operating in.

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<v Speaker 1>Its jumping into the controversial topics already, but before I

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<v Speaker 1>get into that one, I'm really interested to know how

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<v Speaker 1>you managed to figure out where to place your your

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<v Speaker 1>edge location. So do you have different types of data

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<v Speaker 1>centers or are all of them pretty much equivalent as

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<v Speaker 1>far as capabilities that they offer. I can imagine the

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<v Speaker 1>size and maybe the individual resources may be different depending

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<v Speaker 1>on actual need and where the customers are, but are

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<v Speaker 1>they fundamentally treated the same. Like if we look at

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<v Speaker 1>AWS or GCP, they don't offer every service in every region,

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<v Speaker 1>and they also don't offer a data center in every country.

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<v Speaker 1>So you may be in a place where you have

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<v Speaker 1>users who want to utilize your well culture to serve

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<v Speaker 1>their customers and there may not be any localized resources there.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you figure out where to put the edge

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<v Speaker 1>nodes and what do those actually look like?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it's that's a really fantastic question because

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<v Speaker 2>edge means different things to different people. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when edge computing first was a thing, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>few years ago or several years ago, both thought that

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<v Speaker 2>edge computing was, you know, there's going to be a

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<v Speaker 2>data center at the bottom of every cell tower, and

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<v Speaker 2>that was you know, kind of a thing for for

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<v Speaker 2>a minute and kind of like pushing the boundaries of

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<v Speaker 2>edge because you know, if you look at the evolution

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<v Speaker 2>of data center footprint over time, it was all the

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<v Speaker 2>major metros were the hubs for data centers. And the

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<v Speaker 2>reason for that was just as there was density, you

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<v Speaker 2>had all the major financial markets, you had all the

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<v Speaker 2>major tech technology companies, they were all in these regions

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<v Speaker 2>and people wanted to have you know, data centers that

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<v Speaker 2>were in those major regions. So you know New York,

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<v Speaker 2>you know the Bay Area, Ashburn, you know Dallas, there's

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<v Speaker 2>you know some major Chicago, there's major metros where there's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just if you look at the US, the

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<v Speaker 2>density of those data centers there, and then started to

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<v Speaker 2>branch out into regional operators to go into other places

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<v Speaker 2>that were still major metropolitan areas but not you know,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like you know Tier one cities in the US,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it kind of like skipped over like rapid

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<v Speaker 2>expansion to and now we're gonna put one at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the edge, you know, at the bottom every

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<v Speaker 2>cell tower, and that you know, like if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the cost of capital to deploy at the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>of every cell tower as an example, it just doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>make sense if you have you know, I'm looking, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>streaming a YouTube video in the car, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm passing one cell tower, you know, and I'm only

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<v Speaker 2>connected to that tower for you know, for for two

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<v Speaker 2>to three minutes as I'm driving down the highway. The

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<v Speaker 2>amount of data that I'm processing over that network is

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<v Speaker 2>just never going to recoup the cost of putting building

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<v Speaker 2>the data center and installing servers there and and having

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<v Speaker 2>you know, over the network delivery of things like self

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<v Speaker 2>driving cars is you know, just a safety disaster. And

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, you're looking at how much data actually

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<v Speaker 2>needs to get processed at the far edge and so,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just it's just not that much, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so so but then then you you like enter GPU,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, okay, wait a minute. So now there's a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of edge data centers which aren't in the cell

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<v Speaker 2>tower you know, aren't at the base of cell towers,

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<v Speaker 2>but they are edge data centers insofar as they might

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<v Speaker 2>be in the middle of a wind farm in South

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<v Speaker 2>Dakota and it's like, well, what are they doing there?

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<v Speaker 2>They might be like mining crypto as an example, where

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<v Speaker 2>there's access to very cheap power, but you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>have concerns in terms of redundancy, so like are they

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like optimizing for cost is different than optimizing

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<v Speaker 2>for redundancy and resiliency, which is what you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>gatch if you're you know, operting a data center that's

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<v Speaker 2>delivering you know, services to the financial services industry. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just like a different tier of service. And so you

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<v Speaker 2>have a bunch of data centers that pop up in

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<v Speaker 2>like the far it's a far edge, it's a different

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<v Speaker 2>far edge, but also out out there as well. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't have any of those. We are focused on major

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<v Speaker 2>major markets that that's where our We do have thirty two,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're in all the major markets that are around

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<v Speaker 2>the world. And so the things that we look at

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<v Speaker 2>are the common things like population density, we look at

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<v Speaker 2>obviously customer demand. If somebody needs us to show up

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<v Speaker 2>in a specific location for a specific reason, we'll do that.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it's you know, we're really focused on being

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<v Speaker 2>able to deliver services to places where there are you

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<v Speaker 2>know that there's a there's a need there, and so

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<v Speaker 2>our data centers are not again like we didn't grow

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<v Speaker 2>up in you know, we didn't grow up having data

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<v Speaker 2>centers in the middle of nowhere that we're then trying

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<v Speaker 2>to like you know, retrofit with data you know, with

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<v Speaker 2>backup generators and with better network performance because they suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>have a different you know, value add in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the industry that they're going after. These are you know

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<v Speaker 2>again like they're they're tier three plus data centers, which

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, like one of the highs. There's four

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<v Speaker 2>tiers and you know Tier three plus is like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the best and so so. So yes, these

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<v Speaker 2>are like high you know, like I can't remember they

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<v Speaker 2>I've lost count of the number of nines that it offers.

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<v Speaker 2>But these are again like they're they're major at all,

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<v Speaker 2>the major like name brand you know, data center providers

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<v Speaker 2>or the or the folks that we work with, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're and that's you know, because our class of customers,

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<v Speaker 2>just their their enterprise customers, they expect a certain thing

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the uptime of these of these services

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<v Speaker 2>and the network they're going to get there.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you seeing that your customers and potentually this

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<v Speaker 1>outer market segment of customers that you're not necessarily geared

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<v Speaker 1>to right now are leaning towards more hybrid model over

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<v Speaker 1>time or and they bring their own local data center

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<v Speaker 1>or already built server rack and they're connecting that up

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<v Speaker 1>to your cloud, or are you offering something to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to build that connection so that those customers who

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<v Speaker 1>may not have data center expertise like I can think

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<v Speaker 1>and in AWS, there's like some sort of deployable outposts

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, for running tech on Is there some corollary

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<v Speaker 1>that you've got or see customers actually interested in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, that's another really really great question. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>the database outpost, I think has you know, seen somewhat

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<v Speaker 2>limited optick, you know, because if you have, if you

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<v Speaker 2>have an on prem data center. I think that when

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<v Speaker 2>cloud went through the first wave of explosive growth, people

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<v Speaker 2>assumed that everything was going to go to cloud and

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<v Speaker 2>that on prem was going to go to zero. And

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<v Speaker 2>the reality is is that when you're deploying, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when you're flipping capex to op x, so instead of

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<v Speaker 2>buying servers, you're paying you know op x. You know

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<v Speaker 2>your depreciation schedule for your your CAPEX. You know, you like,

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<v Speaker 2>from a financial perspective, you recognize that if you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to be in the cloud, and at this point everybody

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<v Speaker 2>understands that they're going to need infrastructure in some fashion.

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<v Speaker 2>That if you're going to be in the business of

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<v Speaker 2>having infrastructure boud infrastructure in some form either delivered on

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<v Speaker 2>prem through you're on you know, your your platform team

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<v Speaker 2>combined with your on site team, or if you're just

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<v Speaker 2>consuming it through the cloud, that you're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>going to need it over a long period of time,

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<v Speaker 2>and so those charts cross out of about the three

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<v Speaker 2>year mark for most people in terms of the cost

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<v Speaker 2>of the TCO. And so if somebody's saying, hey, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to need this infrastructure, we're planning to be in

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<v Speaker 2>business for the next you know, two to three or

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<v Speaker 2>four decades, then they're going to say it's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be way more cost effective for us to own this gear.

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<v Speaker 2>Understanding that that, you know, the lines crossed at about

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<v Speaker 2>you know, three years or so, but the useful the

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<v Speaker 2>actual useful life of those systems is probably somewhere between

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, six, seven, eight years probably, And so

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<v Speaker 2>if you have the you know, so a CFO is

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<v Speaker 2>going to look at that and say, hey, like we

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<v Speaker 2>should be doing that, you know, putting servers and data

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<v Speaker 2>centers because it's going to be more cost effective for

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<v Speaker 2>that asset. There's other challenges that come along with that

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<v Speaker 2>because now you have to have a team. You have

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<v Speaker 2>to either have the team already or you need to

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<v Speaker 2>hire the team, and you need to do a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of things that people don't generally do as part of

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<v Speaker 2>their business. I mean, when you know, when was the

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<v Speaker 2>last time that you were inside of a data center.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever, I was lucky early on in my career and

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<v Speaker 1>I managed to get in one because the company I

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<v Speaker 1>worked for what offered global manufacturing services, and so they

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<v Speaker 1>would put a data center within each of the manufacturing plans.

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<v Speaker 1>And I there's a lot of stories that go on there,

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<v Speaker 1>ones like you probably don't expect to have to deal

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<v Speaker 1>with a flood or fire or having both at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time very close to where your data center is,

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<v Speaker 1>and that being like a critical problem. So just reliability

419
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.759
<v Speaker 1>of that thing is another challenge there, Like I actually

420
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.440
<v Speaker 1>feel like hiring you know, that's obviously one of the issues.

421
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:15.200
<v Speaker 1>But there's just like so many in the list goes

422
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.279
<v Speaker 1>on and on, for instance, correct projections, right, like how

423
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.799
<v Speaker 1>many of us were like, oh, yeah, you know, uh

424
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 1>six years ago, you know, what's gonna be so different

425
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.720
<v Speaker 1>around the world, like sands, whether or not any sort

426
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.079
<v Speaker 1>of LM or AI. Yeah, I brought it up and

427
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:34.480
<v Speaker 1>we're only out Like the twenty minute mark is is good,

428
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.640
<v Speaker 1>accurate or useful? I do feel like it's impacting a

429
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of companies, and that's something that I can guarantee you.

430
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:45.599
<v Speaker 1>Very few financial experts put into any of their market

431
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.240
<v Speaker 1>predictions or for their companies. So yeah, I mean, if

432
00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:50.839
<v Speaker 1>you have a perfect understanding of what of how much

433
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.880
<v Speaker 1>money you're going to spend and how much like what

434
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.839
<v Speaker 1>your accounts receivable is going to be going forward, your

435
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 1>revenue and where you can capitalize on that, yeah, go

436
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.039
<v Speaker 1>for it, you know, make the those purchases. But I

437
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:03.319
<v Speaker 1>guarantee you no one is that good. And if you

438
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:05.160
<v Speaker 1>are that good, you know, just quit your job and

439
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.000
<v Speaker 1>go put some money in the stock market right now,

440
00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:10.359
<v Speaker 1>you know. And I say that, I'm like, I'm sure

441
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.839
<v Speaker 1>the correct buy is like shortening the market by you know,

442
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:14.839
<v Speaker 1>any amount like that's probably how a bunch of people

443
00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:17.599
<v Speaker 1>are gonna become rich in the next couple of years.

444
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:19.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. I've never had too much luck

445
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:21.160
<v Speaker 2>for that. I feel like the moment that I decide

446
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.279
<v Speaker 2>that I'm gonna, you know, make make a better it

447
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:25.839
<v Speaker 2>just feels like gambling to me. I'm gonna be like, oh,

448
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna short sell, and then that will be the

449
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.960
<v Speaker 2>moment that it's the bottom of the bottom of the market.

450
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:32.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna stick with delivery infrastructure as my no.

451
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>I think I think that's incredibly I think that's incredibly

452
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.440
<v Speaker 1>wise and right thing to do. Yeah, for sure, Like

453
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.799
<v Speaker 1>there are so many analysts out there that statistically they're

454
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:43.920
<v Speaker 1>just gonna like they only do this. Like my brother

455
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Speaker 1>was telling me when he was in working for a

456
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:48.960
<v Speaker 1>mutual fund that literally there's like one person at that

457
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.359
<v Speaker 1>company and all they do is focus on like five

458
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:54.400
<v Speaker 1>companies specifically. That's it. That's all they know. So there's

459
00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.960
<v Speaker 1>no way that you're gonna have more information or be

460
00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:58.640
<v Speaker 1>more of an expert to be able to make better

461
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.000
<v Speaker 1>decisions in them. You're pretty much betting against everyone else

462
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.480
<v Speaker 1>who has also no idea. So you know, maybe you're

463
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:05.599
<v Speaker 1>more lucky than that. You know, if luck is on

464
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:09.240
<v Speaker 1>your side, definitely go for it. But for immateur investors,

465
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 1>definitely any sort of market index fund. If you're feeling risky,

466
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:14.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you want to you want to be

467
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.480
<v Speaker 1>like you know what, I want to either have nothing

468
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:19.440
<v Speaker 1>or everything, then then you know, you take the take

469
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.160
<v Speaker 1>the gamble, like you.

470
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Said, exactly exactly. Yeah, I'll never never put money, you know,

471
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:28.039
<v Speaker 2>make my own bets there because it truly feels like

472
00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:30.000
<v Speaker 2>a bet. It feels like you know, and the way

473
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.359
<v Speaker 2>that I approach that is, you know, I only I

474
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.200
<v Speaker 2>only would bet the money that I'm willing to lose,

475
00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:38.000
<v Speaker 2>which is very little. It would prefer to do things

476
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.319
<v Speaker 2>that I can control and uh and and have some

477
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 2>knowledge over. So but yeah, you know, you know, getting

478
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>back to your original question about about you know, like

479
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>the hybrid models and how customers are viewing that, I

480
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.319
<v Speaker 2>think that, yeah, you know, that's an area where you know,

481
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:57.759
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's there's certainly folks who have you know,

482
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.160
<v Speaker 2>again like putting them into kind of two category, is

483
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:03.640
<v Speaker 2>there are folks who are clouds only and there are

484
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.039
<v Speaker 2>those that are hybrid, and we see both of those

485
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and I think that having a strategy that accounts for

486
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.519
<v Speaker 2>both of those is is really important. And so I

487
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:13.359
<v Speaker 2>think that it would be a mistake to think that

488
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>everything is ultimately going to end up in the cloud,

489
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>because that has not been born out, and I don't

490
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.920
<v Speaker 2>think that will continue to prove out. But cloud is

491
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.720
<v Speaker 2>an important strategy and an important thing for a lot

492
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>of even those customers who are traditionally on prem and

493
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I've worked at well both of those places that are

494
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, that have a hybrid strategy because that's what

495
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.480
<v Speaker 2>they need. They need cloud for the birstability, they needed

496
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>for instant access to because they can't make a prediction

497
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.839
<v Speaker 2>of their capacity. They need to have a hybrid strategy,

498
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.839
<v Speaker 2>but they just simply either can't or don't want to

499
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:50.160
<v Speaker 2>be fully in the cloud, and so having a strategy,

500
00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 2>a technical strategy that they can account for that is

501
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I think, is I think really important.

502
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, I'm totally with you. My advice has always

503
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.279
<v Speaker 1>been make the mistake in going to the cloud, and

504
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.160
<v Speaker 1>then ten years later when you're like, oh, well, you

505
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.000
<v Speaker 1>know it would have been better if we didn't, then

506
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>you can start being like exactly figuring out how you

507
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.160
<v Speaker 1>want to move some of your stuff back on prem

508
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.799
<v Speaker 1>unless you have a lot of old hardware sitting around

509
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:11.799
<v Speaker 1>that you're just like, oh, I want to throw a

510
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.119
<v Speaker 1>bunch of extra money at maintenance. Which is the thing

511
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>that I thought about when you said having the data

512
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.920
<v Speaker 1>centers at the bottom of every cell tower. It's not

513
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.640
<v Speaker 1>even like having to spend the money to go and

514
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.319
<v Speaker 1>build them there, or the complexity of building an application

515
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.880
<v Speaker 1>that handles like lossy packets, like not meeting anywhere because

516
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.599
<v Speaker 1>you're in between switching. I mean, you think about how

517
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.440
<v Speaker 1>reliable GPS seller networks are, Like it's very difficult to

518
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.680
<v Speaker 1>get your position in some places in the world just

519
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:39.920
<v Speaker 1>due to jamming and whatnot. And now you have to

520
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:43.000
<v Speaker 1>deal with not like unreliable technology and then it's going

521
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:45.240
<v Speaker 1>to break down, right just having one of those at

522
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:47.799
<v Speaker 1>every single cell tower, that's a lot of extra maintenance

523
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:50.559
<v Speaker 1>that you're going into it more so than like how

524
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.400
<v Speaker 1>do you even send a person there, you know, in

525
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.799
<v Speaker 1>a truck with the right equipment to go and investigate

526
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:56.519
<v Speaker 1>and then hip thing Like a lot of those are

527
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:58.200
<v Speaker 1>in places that are very difficult to reach. You know,

528
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.880
<v Speaker 1>there's pretty much just one cable going to the tower

529
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and no one ever goes to that tower ever.

530
00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Again exactly that that's very true. And uh and again

531
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:10.640
<v Speaker 2>like you also, you know these are running on you know,

532
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:12.880
<v Speaker 2>like if there's you know, if you lose utility power,

533
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're operating on a generator and you know,

534
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I I do have a UPS power bank you know

535
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>for my home internet to ensure that it's up all

536
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.920
<v Speaker 2>the time, but it lasts about eight minutes. And you know,

537
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:25.599
<v Speaker 2>and and for the cell tower, you know, with the

538
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.480
<v Speaker 2>very low power, you know, the the things that are

539
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:31.160
<v Speaker 2>running there typically you know, their arm chips for low

540
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:34.400
<v Speaker 2>power consumption, the switching like all of that is you know,

541
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 2>it's all low power devices, even the you know, the signal,

542
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:40.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean they have to broadcast the signal. But you've

543
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>got maybe you know, somewhere between eight and twenty four

544
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:47.640
<v Speaker 2>hours of redundancy of the current cellular infrastructure that's there.

545
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Then you start tacking on you know, kilo watts of

546
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>of server compute and and you know, you have much

547
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.480
<v Speaker 2>different challenges if if you lose utility power or if

548
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 2>something if something goes wrong. So it's it's a yeah, no,

549
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:01.359
<v Speaker 2>that that was you know when that happened, it was

550
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, the assumption was and I think the other

551
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.559
<v Speaker 2>aspect of that, going again, going back to the high performance,

552
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:07.599
<v Speaker 2>low latency, like the other aspect of that is that

553
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like, what is the use case that

554
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:12.640
<v Speaker 2>requires that low level of latency because we operate in

555
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:14.920
<v Speaker 2>thirty two DA centers around the world. It's thirty two

556
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.480
<v Speaker 2>and there's you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands

557
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:19.319
<v Speaker 2>of cell towers. Like what's the difference, Like what what

558
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.400
<v Speaker 2>what what do you actually need that for? Because we

559
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.839
<v Speaker 2>already operate, you know, our our platform, you know, thirty

560
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.920
<v Speaker 2>two we operate and we are able to reach. I

561
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.319
<v Speaker 2>think it's you know, ninety plus percent of the world's

562
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>population under forty milliseconds. It's like in like, so like,

563
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.480
<v Speaker 2>what's the use case that necessitates that you dropped from

564
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:39.799
<v Speaker 2>forty milliseconds down to you know two or one? There

565
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.119
<v Speaker 2>are those like there's again like financial services you have

566
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.319
<v Speaker 2>like you know, you're you're not dealing in milliseconds. Yeah,

567
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 2>you're you're dealing in a unit much smaller than that.

568
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 2>But that's in a very specific location that the global

569
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:55.200
<v Speaker 2>application use case of insanely low latency has yet to

570
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.319
<v Speaker 2>be born out. And I think for a minute there

571
00:27:57.319 --> 00:27:58.880
<v Speaker 2>it was like well, self driving cars, of course, but

572
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, pushing that over the network, over the you know,

573
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 2>the EM spectrum with jamming and with everything else that's

574
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:07.839
<v Speaker 2>going on again is just you know, a safety disaster.

575
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.359
<v Speaker 2>And so that that was like the use case that

576
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.079
<v Speaker 2>everybody trotted out when that was you know, when when

577
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 2>that was a hot topic, but that that has not

578
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.839
<v Speaker 2>really again been worn out in reality, and and that

579
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:21.279
<v Speaker 2>the use case where you need high amounts of compute

580
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.599
<v Speaker 2>at that you know, minuscule latency to necessitate a deployment

581
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:27.880
<v Speaker 2>like that. Again, as we've yet seen that.

582
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I'm with you there. I mean, we'll

583
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:35.519
<v Speaker 1>see for real time decision making, having that on vehicle

584
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 1>for autonomous vehicles would make way more sense. I mean,

585
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 1>we already see this needing to be the case for

586
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:48.480
<v Speaker 1>any sort of on personed missions outside the atmosphere or

587
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.839
<v Speaker 1>a planet. So we're already thinking about this as a

588
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.880
<v Speaker 1>as a species of how to build technology like this

589
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.359
<v Speaker 1>and what is actually necessary. But I have seen an

590
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.839
<v Speaker 1>uptick in companies that are trying to provide remote services.

591
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Rather than having you know, full autonomous vehicle, you just

592
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 1>have the driver is somewhere else, like it's sitting at

593
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.680
<v Speaker 1>their desk, driving your vehicle to the actual location. And

594
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.759
<v Speaker 1>so with that, I can see a little bit more

595
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.039
<v Speaker 1>of a use there. I could see maybe it's backed

596
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>up by redundant systems within the vehicle, so the person

597
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 1>who's in the car, like you, still don't have to

598
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.759
<v Speaker 1>drive the vehicle. But I do see these as long

599
00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:27.960
<v Speaker 1>as there's some differentiation in the markets around the world

600
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:32.839
<v Speaker 1>being financially viable to outsource the driving to someone else

601
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>somewhere else.

602
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think that that It's it's a

603
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:38.640
<v Speaker 2>super interesting one to talk about because I think that

604
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:42.440
<v Speaker 2>there are you know, again, whether it's somebody driving your

605
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:47.000
<v Speaker 2>car for you, or you know missions you know in

606
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.359
<v Speaker 2>other parts of the world that you have an operator

607
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:55.759
<v Speaker 2>sitting somewhere you know, those are those are valid use cases.

608
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.759
<v Speaker 2>But the realities is that the electromagnetic spectrum is open

609
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.559
<v Speaker 2>to anyone. And so and I don't mean open in

610
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>so far as yes, you know, you have to encrypt it,

611
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.200
<v Speaker 2>you have to worry about like, but anybody can you know,

612
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 2>has access to both you know, broadcast or receive those signals.

613
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.559
<v Speaker 2>That's open. Obviously it's regulated. You'd be in a lot

614
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:17.039
<v Speaker 2>of trouble if you broadcast over part of the spectrum

615
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.200
<v Speaker 2>that you were not authorized to broadcast over, but it

616
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.920
<v Speaker 2>would be extraordinarily disruptive if somebody did knowingly. So it's

617
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.400
<v Speaker 2>it's it's an attack factor because it is an open spectrum.

618
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, anybody can you know, by commodity parts and

619
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.400
<v Speaker 2>assemble an electromagnetic you know, something that either you know

620
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:35.119
<v Speaker 2>sends or receives over the electromatic spectrum in the frequencies

621
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.200
<v Speaker 2>that these would operate in. And so there has to

622
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 2>be the ability for either that like if you take,

623
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>like somebody driving your car remotely like that sounds great,

624
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.759
<v Speaker 2>But if that signal gets jammed or if that signal

625
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.480
<v Speaker 2>gets dropped, there needs to be something on the device,

626
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.119
<v Speaker 2>either in the form of somebody has to be sitting

627
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>behind the wheel, or the car needs to stop itself

628
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:54.759
<v Speaker 2>and then coordinate it between the other cars to to

629
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:58.119
<v Speaker 2>stop themselves without causing an accident. But but that that

630
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.599
<v Speaker 2>the medium in particular, if it's why or if it's

631
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 2>fixed in place, there's things that you know, there's a

632
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a relative amount of a surety around what's happening

633
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.200
<v Speaker 2>to be able to stop it because it's fixed or

634
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.000
<v Speaker 2>it's wired, and so the redundancy of that is so

635
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.079
<v Speaker 2>much better. But we all see, you know, the you know,

636
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:18.480
<v Speaker 2>the electromagnetic spectrum is is already extraordinarily crowded and is

637
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:21.559
<v Speaker 2>only getting more congested, and it is also open to

638
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.720
<v Speaker 2>interference and jamming in ways that a wired network is.

639
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:27.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, it doesn't suffer for those things. So it

640
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>just it presents unique challenges to to be able to solve,

641
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:32.319
<v Speaker 2>to be able to do that in a way that

642
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you know is safe and and you know and accounts

643
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.240
<v Speaker 2>for the reality of the medium by which this information

644
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>gets transferred.

645
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:43.759
<v Speaker 1>So if you're making an autonomous car company and you

646
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 1>need to send signals between each of the vehicles and

647
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.599
<v Speaker 1>some you know primary data center, vulture is probably the answer,

648
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.519
<v Speaker 1>is what I'm hearing.

649
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I yes, I guess that's you know, getting back the vulture. Yes, no,

650
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:56.920
<v Speaker 2>that would be that would be the way to do it.

651
00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.559
<v Speaker 2>As if you need a locate a data center. I

652
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:01.440
<v Speaker 2>mean this is this is also true, like this is

653
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.119
<v Speaker 2>actually what we do with connected cars, which I will

654
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.759
<v Speaker 2>also say, like the connected car, you know, use case

655
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.079
<v Speaker 2>is is totally valid. It's not for maybe necessarily like

656
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.119
<v Speaker 2>driving the car, but you know, I mean on my

657
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.039
<v Speaker 2>device itself right here, I can talk to my car.

658
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:14.559
<v Speaker 2>I can unlock it, I can lock it, I can

659
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.000
<v Speaker 2>see is it moving, where it's the what's the location.

660
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:19.839
<v Speaker 2>I can set the climate control. So there are things

661
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:23.920
<v Speaker 2>that are like for non critical communication between the vehicle

662
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:27.799
<v Speaker 2>and the end user or the cloud, is a totally

663
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:30.200
<v Speaker 2>valid use case for sure. It's it's only when you

664
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:31.920
<v Speaker 2>so you know, when you have you know, human lives

665
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 2>that are being transported in the vehicle that you know

666
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:36.640
<v Speaker 2>it could be potentially deadly. Is when you say, okay,

667
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe le's like let let's not do that over the network,

668
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.079
<v Speaker 2>but certainly for things that are you know, with respect

669
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:43.680
<v Speaker 2>to how you start the car or stop you know,

670
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>lock it remotely. Those are all things where you know,

671
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 2>connected car is a super valid use case where and

672
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:51.559
<v Speaker 2>we see that all the time where it's like and

673
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:53.559
<v Speaker 2>that's also the valid like if you're doing a connected

674
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.920
<v Speaker 2>car in you know, in in Asia or in Australia,

675
00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:00.119
<v Speaker 2>or in in the India like there, or in the U.

676
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Those are all areas where having a data center that

677
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.319
<v Speaker 2>is in market is incredibly important. Like that's that's an

678
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 2>area where you know, you only get goodness from being

679
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.960
<v Speaker 2>able to deploy close to where the end users.

680
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Are makes a lot of sense. I do have to ask, so,

681
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm running a company. I don't think that

682
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:20.279
<v Speaker 1>high performance computing is something that we need, but are

683
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 1>there telltale signs that I should be thinking about the

684
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.440
<v Speaker 1>infrastructure that my product my company is utilizing Differently, are

685
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.240
<v Speaker 1>there are there certain things that I could like ask

686
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.160
<v Speaker 1>myself potentially you know, the audience that is listening to

687
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:38.039
<v Speaker 1>this right now, something for them that would help identify

688
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.799
<v Speaker 1>that just using a regular cloud provider or doing something

689
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.240
<v Speaker 1>on prem like may have a better alternative.

690
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I think that the you know, being

691
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.920
<v Speaker 2>able to look at the I guess I should also say,

692
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, we if you just want access to easy

693
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.880
<v Speaker 2>access to large amounts of compute around the world, Vulture

694
00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:58.880
<v Speaker 2>is a great fit. So you know that we have

695
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:03.519
<v Speaker 2>all the SDKs like Cluster, API and Terraform, and you

696
00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:05.519
<v Speaker 2>know it's API for saything that you can do in

697
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.039
<v Speaker 2>the portal, you can do via the API. And so

698
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, we've again that's like been battle hardened with developers.

699
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 2>That's a huge part of our origin story and the

700
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 2>DNA of this company is being able to serve developers

701
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.280
<v Speaker 2>and DevOps, individuals and teams. That's really that's a core

702
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:20.320
<v Speaker 2>part of you know, what Vulture is all about. And

703
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 2>so so, yes, there's a piece of performance, but it's

704
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 2>also ease of use. You know, if you if you

705
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.480
<v Speaker 2>work with some of the hyperscalers, it's incredibly complicated just

706
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:30.119
<v Speaker 2>to get something. I mean, I guess they've made something

707
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:31.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of like the onboarding process easy so you can

708
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.320
<v Speaker 2>click the button to get going, but they're incredibly complicated.

709
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.079
<v Speaker 2>And you look at you know, some of the hyperscalers

710
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know, you look at like the I am

711
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.280
<v Speaker 2>or like resource hierarchy models of how permissions get structured,

712
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's almost seems impossible to set up a new

713
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.599
<v Speaker 2>service or it's like wait, why is this throwing me

714
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:49.639
<v Speaker 2>an air? I'm the root user and I can't even

715
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.199
<v Speaker 2>deploy this new thing that I want to try out,

716
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.719
<v Speaker 2>or when I add my second user, I put these

717
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:56.119
<v Speaker 2>accounts together, How the policies get things like, you know,

718
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.480
<v Speaker 2>all the services of how you do networking and there's

719
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.320
<v Speaker 2>ten different kind of gateways that you you can all

720
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:03.360
<v Speaker 2>stitch together in very different ways. Like there's there's incredible

721
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>complexity with when you are at one of the hyperscalers,

722
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.079
<v Speaker 2>which you know, we are focused on kind of distilling

723
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.039
<v Speaker 2>that down into what is it that you actually need?

724
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.800
<v Speaker 2>And so I think there's there is the performance piece

725
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.079
<v Speaker 2>of it, which just says, you know, how can I

726
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 2>get better, better performance at a better price. It's not

727
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.440
<v Speaker 2>like apples and oranges, where you know it's it's like,

728
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.079
<v Speaker 2>well it's less expensive, but it's also cheaper and smaller,

729
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 2>and this is like better for less and and then

730
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.119
<v Speaker 2>also the easy of use component of that. How do

731
00:35:31.159 --> 00:35:32.800
<v Speaker 2>we keep it simple? How do we distill these things

732
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 2>down to say, like I just want some compute, like

733
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I just want a Kubernators cluster. I just want some

734
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:39.400
<v Speaker 2>object storage. How can I deliver that to the end

735
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 2>user in a way that is is easy to consume

736
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.800
<v Speaker 2>and and and they can actually enjoy the process of

737
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.039
<v Speaker 2>getting it without having to think about you know, okay,

738
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 2>like I am an individual, or I'm a developer, and

739
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:52.199
<v Speaker 2>I or I have a small team, like I'm not

740
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 2>a giant enterprise that has multiple business units and multiple

741
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.239
<v Speaker 2>organizational units with different cost centers and different billing accounts,

742
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.639
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't I shouldn't need to think about that

743
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:03.639
<v Speaker 2>every single time I go to deploy like my next instance.

744
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.119
<v Speaker 2>And so that's like like so if if there's you know,

745
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.280
<v Speaker 2>challenges in consuming things at the hyperscalers, or it's like

746
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:12.440
<v Speaker 2>why is this so complicated and hard? Yeah, like and

747
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:13.480
<v Speaker 2>then you and then you look at the bill. You

748
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:14.599
<v Speaker 2>get the bill at the end of the month, and

749
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:17.280
<v Speaker 2>it's like, Wow, I didn't realize that I needed a

750
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 2>PhD in finance and accounting to be able to understand

751
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:24.480
<v Speaker 2>my cloud bill. That's that's an other area where you know,

752
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:28.360
<v Speaker 2>like I was recently looking at a at a bill

753
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:32.119
<v Speaker 2>from one of, you know, from a potential prospect that

754
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.079
<v Speaker 2>was coming from a hyperscaler and they were getting charged

755
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.920
<v Speaker 2>eight thousand dollars for configuration. There's literally objects in the

756
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.840
<v Speaker 2>database they're getting charged eight thousand dollars for like usage

757
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>based some number of hours per configure item inside of

758
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.480
<v Speaker 2>the database. And and I was like, that's a really

759
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.920
<v Speaker 2>interesting I mean, that's a fantastic business model. I would

760
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.159
<v Speaker 2>love it if if you know, like if everybody, I mean,

761
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I guess with your hyperscaler, you've just kind of chosen

762
00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:57.239
<v Speaker 2>that that's an okay, an acceptable thing. But typically, like

763
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.280
<v Speaker 2>the administrative aspects of what you're delivering as a struture

764
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:02.639
<v Speaker 2>provider or as a SaaS service, it's just it's baked in.

765
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's the cost of doing business. But if

766
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.400
<v Speaker 2>you if you like looked closely at your bill, it's like, wow,

767
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.159
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. And on a small scale, it's like, okay, well, okay,

768
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>that's fine. They charged me thirteen dollars for my configuration objects,

769
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.760
<v Speaker 2>and I have a lot of them. That's fine. But

770
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:19.840
<v Speaker 2>imagine spending eight thousand dollars on a month on configuration objects.

771
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.320
<v Speaker 2>That was just how my cloud got configured. So like

772
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 2>there's areas where if you look at like the many

773
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.000
<v Speaker 2>different ways, like we don't charge for you know, requesting

774
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 2>like S three requests, and like that's a huge cost

775
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:33.920
<v Speaker 2>for on ata us. It's not just you're just getting

776
00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:35.880
<v Speaker 2>charged for the storage, you're getting charged for requesting it.

777
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.280
<v Speaker 2>That's another area where like keeping it simple, where it's

778
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.760
<v Speaker 2>like you're going to get charged, you know, per terabyte

779
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>per month for the storage that you use, and we're

780
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.920
<v Speaker 2>not going to nickel and daim you on you know,

781
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Speaker 2>all these different areas and so so there's a lot

782
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yes, there is. Again, like there's the performance

783
00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:52.519
<v Speaker 2>piece of it, but there's many other areas where people

784
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, are kind of tired of the ways in

785
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.719
<v Speaker 2>which the hyperskillers do business and want they want an alternative.

786
00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:03.119
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm totally with you. I think that one thing

787
00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.719
<v Speaker 1>at leads from an AWS standpoint has been I try

788
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.679
<v Speaker 1>to provide that as granular understanding as possible so that

789
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:13.559
<v Speaker 1>you can optimize as much as you want based off

790
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.519
<v Speaker 1>of what they're providing. But I feel like it's sort

791
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:17.920
<v Speaker 1>of a leaky abstraction. You can sort of figure out

792
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.360
<v Speaker 1>how they built their service based off of how they're

793
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.679
<v Speaker 1>charging because it's so transparent, and it doesn't necessarily help

794
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:25.920
<v Speaker 1>because it has a lot of complexity there. When we

795
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:28.840
<v Speaker 1>built our own service, we offer auth as a service,

796
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 1>and part of that is realistically all of our competitors

797
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:35.760
<v Speaker 1>charged by like monthly active users, and it's like, well,

798
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:38.199
<v Speaker 1>what if your users aren't like monthly active, what if

799
00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:40.880
<v Speaker 1>they're used once and whatnot? And so trying to come

800
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.400
<v Speaker 1>up with a single metric that handles every single use

801
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:45.800
<v Speaker 1>case and is easy to charge and understand has been

802
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 1>really important. Whereas I feel like you will see this

803
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.360
<v Speaker 1>where there's like some primary metric and then there's like

804
00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 1>five other metrics that are like but if you do this,

805
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:55.119
<v Speaker 1>it's like another charge, and if you do this, it's

806
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.480
<v Speaker 1>a third charge. Like that doesn't help anyone exactly.

807
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:03.400
<v Speaker 2>No, it's very true. And I think that, yeah, I

808
00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:05.480
<v Speaker 2>think that when you have like when you sit around

809
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.519
<v Speaker 2>a room, when you have the opportunity to sit around

810
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:09.559
<v Speaker 2>a room and just come up with different ways to

811
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:12.320
<v Speaker 2>charge people for using the platform and an extracting value

812
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.039
<v Speaker 2>from it, you can come up with very many creative

813
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.239
<v Speaker 2>ways to add on, you know, tackle on different ways

814
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:20.719
<v Speaker 2>to to to charge customers and and that's something that also,

815
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we've been doing this for you know, Vulture

816
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:25.480
<v Speaker 2>for for over a decade, and it's kind of remarkable

817
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>that we have been able to keep it as simple

818
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.480
<v Speaker 2>as we have. And I think that's a testament to

819
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 2>being able to focus on you know, providing fundamental cloud

820
00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:36.360
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure to a tech enabled uh, you know, mid to

821
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:40.519
<v Speaker 2>large tech enabled enterprise and SaaS companies, and that's you know,

822
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:42.679
<v Speaker 2>that that gives us the ability to really focus on,

823
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:45.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, focus on making sure that it's simple, easy

824
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.360
<v Speaker 2>to consume, and without having to introduce all these ancillary

825
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 2>ways that people get charged, and it's it's easy to understand.

826
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Also just makes our lives easier when somebody comes in

827
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.880
<v Speaker 2>and says, hey, you know, can you please digest my

828
00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:58.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, my my bill from a hyperscaler and we

829
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.440
<v Speaker 2>are able to look at that and say, a great,

830
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.440
<v Speaker 2>like all of these just is a big red you know,

831
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:04.920
<v Speaker 2>like big X mark, Like just that's you know, I'm

832
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 2>just not going to get charged for that. And people

833
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:08.960
<v Speaker 2>look at that and they say they think, oh wow,

834
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even realize that that was an option. I

835
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.559
<v Speaker 2>just thought that this was the way that it was

836
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.239
<v Speaker 2>and being able to provide an alternative that is really powerful. Yeah.

837
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:18.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's actually a great book out there called

838
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Platform Revolution where it actually talks about if all of

839
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.639
<v Speaker 1>your customers need to hire a third party consultant to

840
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:27.079
<v Speaker 1>do something, then you have an opportunity to recapture that

841
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 1>value within your own platform. And so I think the

842
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 1>other hyperscalers, you know, fail at that where there's huge

843
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.400
<v Speaker 1>successful businesses out there in that regard that are trying

844
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.480
<v Speaker 1>to just explain your cloud bill and it should tell you, no,

845
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:43.639
<v Speaker 1>we should probably do something a little bit smarter than

846
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.559
<v Speaker 1>with how we're actually providing this. It just makes tracking

847
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:47.639
<v Speaker 1>so much easier for everyone.

848
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:49.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, it's much easier to add than it is

849
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.400
<v Speaker 2>to remove, I've found. You know, it's it's you know,

850
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.679
<v Speaker 2>being able to add more. You know, but what you

851
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:56.920
<v Speaker 2>cut and how you cut or how you create things

852
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 2>that make it simpler is often, you know, is often

853
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.719
<v Speaker 2>is difficult because you know that complexity typically gets added

854
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:08.119
<v Speaker 2>for either well intentioned reasons or because somebody said that

855
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.960
<v Speaker 2>was a requirement and so it got added. And now

856
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.400
<v Speaker 2>once it's there, it's very very hard to unwind.

857
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully, no one no one's adding features because someone said

858
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:19.119
<v Speaker 1>it's a requirement without actually backing it up with a

859
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.760
<v Speaker 1>good justifications. I just can't imagine that's happening in the

860
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.960
<v Speaker 1>real world. Is that there is this good quote that

861
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm totally going to misattribute. That perfection is not when

862
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.679
<v Speaker 1>there is nothing more to add but nothing left to remove.

863
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:37.239
<v Speaker 1>So I think that definitely applies to having a good

864
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:38.079
<v Speaker 1>building strategy.

865
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:41.199
<v Speaker 2>I love that. Yeah, that's very that's very, very true.

866
00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 2>I love that.

867
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:44.039
<v Speaker 1>I will I do want to ask I feel like

868
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:46.280
<v Speaker 1>we were dancing around this a little bit. Uh, since

869
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:50.039
<v Speaker 1>you are building data centers, how does sort of research

870
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and analysis go into the requirements and understanding of like

871
00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:58.000
<v Speaker 1>where to place the data center, geelocation base, like any

872
00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of potential issues catastrophic wise to impact the data center.

873
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.679
<v Speaker 1>And you know, the part that's really interesting for me

874
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>is what sort of attention to security of like physical

875
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.199
<v Speaker 1>security of the data center.

876
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Many things that go into that. And you know, we,

877
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean we we also should say, you know, we

878
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:19.320
<v Speaker 2>worked with a lot of fantastic data center partners who

879
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 2>who do a lot of that work for us, and

880
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.559
<v Speaker 2>so you know, we we typically don't go out and

881
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>procure land and do construction, but we do work with

882
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 2>our data center partners too to go through that assessment,

883
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and there's there's many things that they go into that,

884
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.599
<v Speaker 2>especially as you know, if we if we want to

885
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:41.400
<v Speaker 2>unwrap the presence of AI and GPU, there are many

886
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:45.280
<v Speaker 2>things that go into that, especially around the advent of

887
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:48.760
<v Speaker 2>the AI boom that's been happening, and so access to power,

888
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:54.840
<v Speaker 2>access to reliable power, access to multiple sources of large

889
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.840
<v Speaker 2>amounts of power is one of the I guess one dimension.

890
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 2>The other aspects that go into that is okay, well,

891
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:04.599
<v Speaker 2>now that if you're delivering a lot of that power

892
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.440
<v Speaker 2>into a very small space, you have to cool it

893
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.239
<v Speaker 2>because there's a ton of heat and so you know,

894
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:14.320
<v Speaker 2>things like you know like the just like things that

895
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:17.159
<v Speaker 2>have evolved over the last few years from air cooling

896
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:20.320
<v Speaker 2>to liquid cooling to other things like reird or heat

897
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:24.559
<v Speaker 2>exchangers where you have it's like a hybrid where it's

898
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:26.679
<v Speaker 2>like liquid cool to the ship you know DLC, but

899
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.599
<v Speaker 2>you know there's other components that still generate heat, and

900
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.239
<v Speaker 2>so you need to have some fans that will go

901
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:32.920
<v Speaker 2>to a real or heat exchanger. So there's a bunch

902
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:36.079
<v Speaker 2>of different things that go into that. And so the

903
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.599
<v Speaker 2>like where you specifically do the data center is you know,

904
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's many many things that go into that,

905
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and then once you have it, you have to you know,

906
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:54.400
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about in some cases situations where what you're

907
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:57.639
<v Speaker 2>deploying into a single data center is and this is

908
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:02.320
<v Speaker 2>true across true US both power footprint and across networking.

909
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:05.480
<v Speaker 2>And one of the things that just is fascinating about

910
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.360
<v Speaker 2>what has happened is that you have right now a

911
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.199
<v Speaker 2>moment where in a single location you could be deploying

912
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.760
<v Speaker 2>more power than you might have intero for a GPU footprint,

913
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:21.840
<v Speaker 2>then you might have across an entire global footprint of CPU,

914
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:24.280
<v Speaker 2>which is really incredible. And you have that also at

915
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:26.280
<v Speaker 2>the network level too. You know, if you look at

916
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.960
<v Speaker 2>some of the larger clusters that we've deployed and the

917
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:32.360
<v Speaker 2>GPU fabric, which is you know, the GPU's effectively get communicated,

918
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 2>they get connected via networking on the back end, so

919
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:36.679
<v Speaker 2>you have like front side networking which is like my

920
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:40.440
<v Speaker 2>public IP and the back end networking for GPU fabric networking.

921
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:42.440
<v Speaker 2>If you look at some of the larger clusters, the

922
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 2>amount of aggregate throughput that you have in a single

923
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:51.480
<v Speaker 2>clusters more throughput than the entire Internet in a single cluster,

924
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and there's multiple clusters that are getting deployed, and that

925
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:56.960
<v Speaker 2>like if you look both for power and for networking,

926
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you're and then you're deploying them on a time scale

927
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.840
<v Speaker 2>where like it's you know, twenty twenty five, Like it

928
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 2>took how many decades of the Internet growth to get

929
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.079
<v Speaker 2>to where we are. And now if you look at

930
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>what's going to get deployed, know what just got deployed

931
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:11.280
<v Speaker 2>last year was going to get deployed over the course

932
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.360
<v Speaker 2>of the next one or two years. It's really this

933
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:17.360
<v Speaker 2>incredible volume of we just it took us this long

934
00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:19.920
<v Speaker 2>to develop the entire Internet with all of the CPU cloud,

935
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and now it's like we're going to be deploying what is,

936
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:24.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, ten or one hundred or one thousand or

937
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.280
<v Speaker 2>ten thousand x the power networking on a much shorter

938
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:32.840
<v Speaker 2>time scale. And that has I mean, just as an observer,

939
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:38.079
<v Speaker 2>it is incredible to see what's being deployed. As somebody

940
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.360
<v Speaker 2>who also deploys that it is you know, it's presented

941
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:44.119
<v Speaker 2>challenges that I've never seen before my entire career. And

942
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:48.639
<v Speaker 2>so that's been really really fascinating to witness both again

943
00:45:48.679 --> 00:45:50.119
<v Speaker 2>as an observer and a participant.

944
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's interesting. I mean, I think we've known

945
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 1>for a long time that waste heat is still like

946
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:59.519
<v Speaker 1>fifty sixty percent of costs of data centers, possibly higher

947
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:01.320
<v Speaker 1>or lower, but you know, it's it's a huge amount

948
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.679
<v Speaker 1>to have to deal with that. It's not the compute

949
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:06.920
<v Speaker 1>or human resources or physical resources. But the other thing

950
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.920
<v Speaker 1>that really comes to mind is at this point, I

951
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:12.320
<v Speaker 1>wonder if you're already getting to the point where you're

952
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:17.400
<v Speaker 1>identifying concrete competition for the power, the actual energy to

953
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:22.199
<v Speaker 1>power your data centers with the other hyperscalars, or whether

954
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:25.360
<v Speaker 1>or not it's still seen as a limited resource for

955
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.159
<v Speaker 1>the for the moment, or whether or not this is

956
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:29.599
<v Speaker 1>an actual question that's come up in a concern that

957
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.840
<v Speaker 1>you're you have to start dealing with.

958
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:32.960
<v Speaker 2>No, it's always a concern. Yeah, I mean, I would

959
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 2>say that the again, access to power, large quantities of

960
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.239
<v Speaker 2>power and the relatively small densities is for sure an issue,

961
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and we all face it, you know, And I would

962
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:47.039
<v Speaker 2>say this, there's a planning cycle to that as well.

963
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, everybody understands that it's not an unlimited resource,

964
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.679
<v Speaker 2>but that I think that honestly predates you know, GPU,

965
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Like there's always the fallback to utility power and maybe

966
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:58.599
<v Speaker 2>there's a special you know, special agreement that you have

967
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:02.159
<v Speaker 2>with you know, utility power. But data center providers you know,

968
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:05.519
<v Speaker 2>have to have guarantees and so that's always taken the

969
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.760
<v Speaker 2>form of you know, contractual obligations, you know, for for

970
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:11.199
<v Speaker 2>power delivery. And this is no different. Although because of

971
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the scale it it, you know, where the power generation

972
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.400
<v Speaker 2>comes from, and the time scale in which to deploy it,

973
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:19.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, has introduced different things. But you know, data

974
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:21.199
<v Speaker 2>centers have never really been just like oh yeah, just

975
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:22.679
<v Speaker 2>like plug it into the outlet and you're good. Like

976
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:24.920
<v Speaker 2>it's always been, you know, there's there's been a little

977
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.159
<v Speaker 2>bit more to that and so so so yeah, that

978
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:30.079
<v Speaker 2>that has always been a special consideration, and I guess

979
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.920
<v Speaker 2>more so now just more like the time piece of

980
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:35.920
<v Speaker 2>ensuring when that power is going to show up so

981
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:38.159
<v Speaker 2>coordinate things on the back end.

982
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.920
<v Speaker 1>No, it makes co clete sense. I'm sort of wondering

983
00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.760
<v Speaker 1>whether or not you're taking into account you'll, like, say,

984
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:48.840
<v Speaker 1>where data centers by other hyperscalers out there are putting

985
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:51.320
<v Speaker 1>their data centers, because you could end up with a

986
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.760
<v Speaker 1>conflict of you know, a scarce resource.

987
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:57.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I mean certainly there's you know, we we

988
00:47:57.159 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 2>we definitely, you know, we definitely look at that. I mean,

989
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.440
<v Speaker 2>typically the way that that shows up is that there's

990
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:05.039
<v Speaker 2>going to be a certain amount of power, you know,

991
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.960
<v Speaker 2>ten twenty fifty megawatts of power that gets delivered through

992
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.000
<v Speaker 2>a contractual obligation, and so that would be over some

993
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.679
<v Speaker 2>number of years or decades to be able to do that,

994
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and that's kind of like preserved power capacity, and so

995
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:24.239
<v Speaker 2>that that's just you know, like you you reserve that capacity,

996
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:26.599
<v Speaker 2>and that like if you're going to say, you know,

997
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:28.679
<v Speaker 2>if you're gonna let's say there's twenty megawatts that is

998
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:34.400
<v Speaker 2>available in Cleveland or in Cincinnati or in South Dakota somewhere,

999
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.280
<v Speaker 2>that that becomes available, and then whoever takes it takes it.

1000
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:41.199
<v Speaker 2>And so that is and in some cases people are

1001
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:43.840
<v Speaker 2>in the market for additional capacity. In some cases they say, well,

1002
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.400
<v Speaker 2>we just took down, you know, thirty megawatts in Pittsburgh

1003
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and so we're fine, and so we don't need that

1004
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.360
<v Speaker 2>twenty that just showed up over you know, in the

1005
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.480
<v Speaker 2>in the Midwest. But there's ten other people that were

1006
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:57.400
<v Speaker 2>chomping at the bit for the power that was in Pittsburgh.

1007
00:48:57.440 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, now there's you know, if there

1008
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:00.880
<v Speaker 2>were ten people that were in Pittsburgh, one of them

1009
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:02.880
<v Speaker 2>got satisfied, and now there's nine people that are going

1010
00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:04.880
<v Speaker 2>to that might be interested in the twenty mega wants

1011
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.880
<v Speaker 2>you know interest, just as a simple simple example. So,

1012
00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:10.840
<v Speaker 2>and that also fluctuates with the demand of the end customers.

1013
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:13.559
<v Speaker 2>And so depending on you know, who's who's you know,

1014
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.320
<v Speaker 2>who's buying it on the back end, you know, the

1015
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:20.199
<v Speaker 2>you know that will you know, influence the band. And

1016
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.000
<v Speaker 2>so in some cases there's opportunities that are you know,

1017
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.679
<v Speaker 2>that that are being chased, and so folks might be

1018
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:27.599
<v Speaker 2>asking about the same you know, for the same end

1019
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.079
<v Speaker 2>customer coming out at different angles. And so it's a

1020
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a really it's a super dynamic time, super dynamic market.

1021
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:38.400
<v Speaker 2>And so we're always you know, assessing what's available based

1022
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:40.320
<v Speaker 2>on our own needs and and our own you know,

1023
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:41.760
<v Speaker 2>and our end customer needs as well.

1024
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:44.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it sounds like it's not a struggle yet.

1025
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:47.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously there are ins and outs and complexities

1026
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:51.159
<v Speaker 1>and contracts and future prediction for for demand needs. But

1027
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:55.880
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like at the moment there's still positive optimism

1028
00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:58.199
<v Speaker 1>or you know what's available and you know, sure you

1029
00:49:58.199 --> 00:49:59.559
<v Speaker 1>may not be able to build a data center in

1030
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.440
<v Speaker 1>one local but picking another one is still is still

1031
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:05.760
<v Speaker 1>an option. Uh. You know, I'm wondering when this when

1032
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I'll say, craze of power usage spikes even more, whether

1033
00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:13.440
<v Speaker 1>or not that will actually drive innovation and the science

1034
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:18.039
<v Speaker 1>is to complete the years old fusion research that it

1035
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:20.920
<v Speaker 1>looks only like China at the moment is actually sufficiently

1036
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:21.559
<v Speaker 1>invested in.

1037
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:25.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I've seen every so often I get

1038
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.840
<v Speaker 2>articles that I'll come across my news feed that talk

1039
00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:33.639
<v Speaker 2>about breakthroughs in fusion and and I've seen several of

1040
00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:36.880
<v Speaker 2>them over the last even twelve months or so, and

1041
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:39.800
<v Speaker 2>so I think that it's it's going to be. I mean,

1042
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I think there's maybe one other alternative that's that has

1043
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:48.800
<v Speaker 2>more of a practical implication, but SMRs, which is small

1044
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I think it's small modular reactors there. There it's it's

1045
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 2>nuclear power, but there it's on a much smaller scale.

1046
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:59.000
<v Speaker 2>And so and I think even I think equin X

1047
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:03.760
<v Speaker 2>announced that they were investing some number of millions of

1048
00:51:03.800 --> 00:51:07.800
<v Speaker 2>dollars into s m rs as as an alternative. And

1049
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, the US has not been a leader in

1050
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:15.719
<v Speaker 2>renewable nuclear power, whereas the EU has made a lot

1051
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>of advancements over the last couple of decades. You know,

1052
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.000
<v Speaker 2>if you look at the cycle of you know, nuclear

1053
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.880
<v Speaker 2>waste and how you you know, kind of process that

1054
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:30.639
<v Speaker 2>and can you know, ensure there's a healthier you know,

1055
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like our strategy to to nuclear waste is to bury

1056
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:36.800
<v Speaker 2>it in the ground, and which is it's that that's

1057
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:41.400
<v Speaker 2>a choice, but there's other choices that are that have emerged.

1058
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:44.400
<v Speaker 2>And so I think that innovations in the nuclear space

1059
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:47.199
<v Speaker 2>is something that's really fascinating because you're able to have

1060
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.920
<v Speaker 2>access to you know, without a lot of the footprint,

1061
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:54.880
<v Speaker 2>the carbon footprint and fossil fuels and you know, unrenewable

1062
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.199
<v Speaker 2>energy sources. It's it's really really compelling, but you do

1063
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.320
<v Speaker 2>have to completely think about the complete picture for it

1064
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a sustainable method.

1065
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I do want to get an energy expert on the show.

1066
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1067
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:07.079
<v Speaker 1>I will say that bearing into the ground is still

1068
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:11.480
<v Speaker 1>better than putting it in some other places. And and

1069
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:13.599
<v Speaker 1>I think the the idea of I think is switching

1070
00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:18.920
<v Speaker 1>to thorium over the uranium yellow Cake from two fifty eight.

1071
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:22.039
<v Speaker 1>I think there are innovations. I don't know if I

1072
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:25.400
<v Speaker 1>have your optimism about what Europe is doing. There is progress,

1073
00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:27.519
<v Speaker 1>not as much as I would I would really like.

1074
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's it's a it's really interesting and I

1075
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:32.559
<v Speaker 2>am not an expert on it, because I think there

1076
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:37.440
<v Speaker 2>was it. I think, if I'm remembering correctly, Germany was,

1077
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:40.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, like on the brink of this kind of

1078
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.119
<v Speaker 2>like renewable cycle and I'm there's there's a name for

1079
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.079
<v Speaker 2>it that I'm forgetting. But then they announced that they

1080
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:47.480
<v Speaker 2>were going to shut it down or something, and I

1081
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:49.119
<v Speaker 2>just remember thinking about it. It was like but that thing,

1082
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:51.440
<v Speaker 2>like you were on like the brink of like getting

1083
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.039
<v Speaker 2>to the point where we all wanted it to get to,

1084
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:57.119
<v Speaker 2>which was you know, more of a I think from

1085
00:52:57.159 --> 00:52:59.960
<v Speaker 2>a technical perspective, they were. They had made more advancement,

1086
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:02.519
<v Speaker 2>even though I think there were some policy that prevented

1087
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:04.840
<v Speaker 2>it from chem to fruition, whereas I and I don't

1088
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.719
<v Speaker 2>know that those those translated over here. But maybe maybe

1089
00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:10.360
<v Speaker 2>you have some more then than I do.

1090
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'll share what I know. So facts. Germany definitely

1091
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:18.320
<v Speaker 1>did shut down all their nuclear reactors the interesting thing

1092
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:20.480
<v Speaker 1>is they had been like promised to be decommissioned for

1093
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:24.360
<v Speaker 1>over a decade, and other countries faced with the same

1094
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:27.400
<v Speaker 1>similar challenges crises that we're facing, said you know what,

1095
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:31.239
<v Speaker 1>let's stop our decommission process. Part of the challenge in

1096
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Germany was a huge lobby from the coal miners associations

1097
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.800
<v Speaker 1>because there's a lot of jobs associated with that, and

1098
00:53:40.519 --> 00:53:43.719
<v Speaker 1>that still has a huge impact in many countries switching

1099
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:48.400
<v Speaker 1>over to realistic renewables. Actually in the last two decades

1100
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:52.199
<v Speaker 1>one of the hugest impact to switching to fission reactors.

1101
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:57.039
<v Speaker 1>So what we're calling nuclear is other quote unquote green

1102
00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:01.440
<v Speaker 1>renewable energy sources. Like the lobby against vision and nuclear

1103
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:06.239
<v Speaker 1>by solar and wind is like I would stretch ridiculously.

1104
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just so sad. This is there's probably not the

1105
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:11.960
<v Speaker 1>podcast to go into that. It's all gonna stop there,

1106
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:17.039
<v Speaker 1>and I'll say, uh, say, if there's one last thing

1107
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:20.400
<v Speaker 1>about Vulture you wanted to share, we can we can

1108
00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:21.199
<v Speaker 1>close it out with that.

1109
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, so yeah, look, I would say maybe closing it

1110
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:28.920
<v Speaker 2>out getting back to cloud infrastructure and DevOps. You know,

1111
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things that we we say

1112
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:34.039
<v Speaker 2>is that you know, Vulture is the platform for platform

1113
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:37.280
<v Speaker 2>engineering teams. So you know, if DevOps and platform engineering

1114
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.920
<v Speaker 2>is is your jam, where you find that that's an

1115
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:41.480
<v Speaker 2>area where you're doing a lot of it. You know,

1116
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.239
<v Speaker 2>I think that Vulture has a really compelling platform that is,

1117
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:46.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, it is something that you'll enjoy working with.

1118
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:51.519
<v Speaker 2>It has the again compelling price, compelling performance, and it

1119
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:54.400
<v Speaker 2>needs of use attached to that with a global footprint

1120
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:56.639
<v Speaker 2>and so that checks a lot of the big boxes

1121
00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:59.440
<v Speaker 2>for for DevOps individuals and platform engineering teams. And so

1122
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:02.360
<v Speaker 2>if that something that that resonates, you know, definitely check

1123
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:04.679
<v Speaker 2>us out and you know, let us know what you think.

1124
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I love the sales pitch. I will I will ask

1125
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.800
<v Speaker 1>because I'm sure someone will be wondering, like, what's the

1126
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 1>interface that you're providing? Is it you know, some custom APIs?

1127
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Are you providing like some sort of Kubernetes adjacent replacement

1128
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:21.840
<v Speaker 1>for the control planes, et cetera. What does that look like?

1129
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it is, you know, it's it's a PI first.

1130
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:27.400
<v Speaker 2>So you know, if you use terraform or or cluster API,

1131
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:29.920
<v Speaker 2>you know you'll feel right at home. We have providers

1132
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.559
<v Speaker 2>for cross plane, we have providers for cross plane cluster,

1133
00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:38.079
<v Speaker 2>API terraform and so yeah. So like full API deployment,

1134
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:42.199
<v Speaker 2>there is you know, future rich portal as well, and so,

1135
00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:43.840
<v Speaker 2>but that you know typically is going to be the

1136
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:45.400
<v Speaker 2>entry point is going to be one of those like

1137
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:49.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, we have a go Go Vulture Goaling library,

1138
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:52.239
<v Speaker 2>so one of those entry points for API is probably

1139
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:54.960
<v Speaker 2>going to be that. We do also have VK which

1140
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:57.719
<v Speaker 2>is the Vulture Kubernetes engine, so this is vanilla Kubernetes

1141
00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:01.840
<v Speaker 2>and is something that you know, it is kind of directly,

1142
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:04.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, instead of runn Kubernetes yourself, which is totally fine.

1143
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:07.679
<v Speaker 2>You can run Kubernetes on VMS or bare model yourselves

1144
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:11.440
<v Speaker 2>if that's your jam. But if that's not your jam,

1145
00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:15.400
<v Speaker 2>you can consume kubernetovkay from us and we'll run it

1146
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:17.400
<v Speaker 2>for you.

1147
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:20.880
<v Speaker 1>No, that's that's good, not my jam. And I don't

1148
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:23.360
<v Speaker 1>know how many people would you know, pick it personally you.

1149
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:26.079
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm gonna keep my opinions across playing to

1150
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:27.079
<v Speaker 1>myself for this episode.

1151
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Uh okay, So I think I will say I was

1152
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:33.039
<v Speaker 2>going for I was going for a walk the other

1153
00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:36.920
<v Speaker 2>day and there's a fire hydrant and attached to the

1154
00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:40.559
<v Speaker 2>fire hydrant was a series of you know, piping in

1155
00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:42.960
<v Speaker 2>tubes connecting down to a little water faucet on the end,

1156
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:44.800
<v Speaker 2>and it just kind of reminded me of Kubernetes a

1157
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.159
<v Speaker 2>little bit, where Kubernetes is the fire hydrant and then

1158
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:49.760
<v Speaker 2>to deploy your applications just like a little water faucet.

1159
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like it can be really overkill sometimes to be like,

1160
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:55.360
<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, why why am I needing to do

1161
00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:58.679
<v Speaker 2>this and just to get this little bit of application going,

1162
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:04.000
<v Speaker 2>But it is you know, yeah, that's yeah. If deploying

1163
00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:08.960
<v Speaker 2>something that's a little bit easier is attractive, then than

1164
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:10.320
<v Speaker 2>the we can do that for you.

1165
00:57:10.920 --> 00:57:14.039
<v Speaker 1>We actually had a Kumminatory consultant expert consultant come on

1166
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a few episodes ago, and I highly recommend that episode

1167
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:21.480
<v Speaker 1>for anyone that's interested in the different ways of deploying

1168
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:25.480
<v Speaker 1>to cloud providers with your technology stack. Okay, so with that,

1169
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:30.400
<v Speaker 1>let's move over to pay. So my pick for today

1170
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:32.800
<v Speaker 1>is I don't know how I'm gonna be lame, but

1171
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:35.840
<v Speaker 1>I like this. There's a show on YouTube and Nebula

1172
00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:39.239
<v Speaker 1>called jet Lag the Game, and it's they have a

1173
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:43.199
<v Speaker 1>couple of different game versions. They play tag within like

1174
00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.320
<v Speaker 1>a small area like multiple countries involved, or capture the

1175
00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:53.480
<v Speaker 1>flag in in Japan or in a larger area. Basically, trains, planes,

1176
00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:56.440
<v Speaker 1>buses are involved in game playing, and they even have

1177
00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:00.199
<v Speaker 1>a card game version where you can play with your

1178
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:03.719
<v Speaker 1>friends like in an actual, live, physical location. So there's

1179
00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:05.639
<v Speaker 1>lots of there's like lots of episodes that they do

1180
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.960
<v Speaker 1>about three or four seasons a year, and it's absolutely fantastic.

1181
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:14.360
<v Speaker 1>I think it's like if you hated the reality show

1182
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Race around the World or Amazing Race, this is so

1183
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:23.039
<v Speaker 1>much better. This is like actual high quality, like game

1184
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:26.719
<v Speaker 1>relevant stuff. There's no no real tricks involved.

1185
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:29.679
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. I love that. Well. I would have to

1186
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:33.719
<v Speaker 2>my pick of today, I would have to say there's

1187
00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:36.639
<v Speaker 2>a TV show called Money Heist and I'm not sure

1188
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:41.239
<v Speaker 2>if you're familiar with this, but it's it's it's on Netflix,

1189
00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's about It's a show about it's an incredible

1190
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:49.360
<v Speaker 2>like psychological it's every single there's the first season, it's

1191
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.639
<v Speaker 2>every single episode. Believe you wanting to watch more. It's

1192
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.239
<v Speaker 2>it's in Spanish, so don't get the dubbed version. Do

1193
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Spanish to subtitles, but it is phenomenal and I don't

1194
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:01.320
<v Speaker 2>want to give too much away, but it's called Money Heist,

1195
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.480
<v Speaker 2>and if you watched the first you can get through

1196
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:07.199
<v Speaker 2>the first episode, you'll you'll it's an incredibly smart, well

1197
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:13.760
<v Speaker 2>done about a heist in of the Central Bank of Spain,

1198
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and so it is fascinating. I absolutely love it and

1199
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:20.559
<v Speaker 2>if you haven't seen it, check it out. Money Heist.

1200
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:22.440
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I watched something that was like a

1201
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:25.199
<v Speaker 1>single episode of and I don't know if it was this, you.

1202
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Know, it might have been. There's many things that happened

1203
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:31.800
<v Speaker 2>in that in that season, and it is really it's

1204
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:34.920
<v Speaker 2>just one of the smartest TV shows that I've watched

1205
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.440
<v Speaker 2>in a while, and it's it's entertaining, but it's also

1206
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:42.599
<v Speaker 2>really really well done. So yeah, it's and not a

1207
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of people have have have have heard of it.

1208
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:45.760
<v Speaker 1>It.

1209
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Somebody recommended it and watched the whole thing and was

1210
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.039
<v Speaker 2>aid it was one of those shows where I think

1211
00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.239
<v Speaker 2>we all have them right where you just can't, Like

1212
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:56.280
<v Speaker 2>you get to the end of the episode, you're like,

1213
00:59:55.440 --> 00:59:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I like, you know, it's I really have to you know,

1214
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I've got an early early morning meetings and the I

1215
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.320
<v Speaker 2>have to stop watching, But I just really what happens next.

1216
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:06.760
<v Speaker 2>It's really really smart about you know how they do that,

1217
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:09.760
<v Speaker 2>and and yeah, I really highly recommend it.

1218
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:14.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a sleep sacrifice worthy. It sounds like a great pick.

1219
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Nathan. So I just want to say thanks

1220
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:21.440
<v Speaker 1>again for coming on the senior vice president of Vulture

1221
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.280
<v Speaker 1>here with us, and it was a great episode, and

1222
01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:28.079
<v Speaker 1>thank you all the listeners and viewers for staying around.

1223
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:32.239
<v Speaker 1>And we'll catch everyone next week.