WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.560 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:45.320 Iddy me. On September sixth, nineteen eighty two, convicted murderer 8 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:49.719 Leroy James Chason made a daring break for freedom from 9 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:55.119 the Massachusetts Correctional Institute Walpole, one of the most infamous 10 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:59.759 escape proof prisons in the country. But this wasn't just 11 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:04.480 any prison break. It was a meticulously planned five year 12 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:10.959 effort made possible by an unlikely accomplice, Kathleen MacDonald, Chason's 13 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:17.439 former penpalell turned wife. True crime author Daniel Zimmerman Shots 14 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:22.079 in the Dark brings the shocking escape to life, detailing 15 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:26.519 how Chason, wounded and bleeding from self inflicted wounds, was 16 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:31.120 first transferred to a hospital for treatment, then, using a 17 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.200 forty five automatic smuggled to him by his wife, who 18 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.280 was disguised as a nurse, took hospital guards and staff 19 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:45.200 hostage before fleeing under a hail of gunfire. Dubbed the 20 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:49.280 Bonnie and Clyde of Massachusetts, the couple's daring run across 21 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.239 the country captivated the nation, and they would evade capture 22 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:58.560 for years, living under assumed identities. They nearly made it 23 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:03.840 until from America's Most Wanted led to their eventual capture 24 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:08.639 in nineteen eighty nine. The book you were featuring this 25 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:13.599 evening is Chasin's Run, the prison break that captivated America 26 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.400 and the love story that fueled it. With my special 27 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:22.319 guest author Daniel Zimmerman. Thank you very much for this 28 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.319 interview and welcome back to the program. Daniel Zimmerman. 29 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:31.039 Well, I'm glad to have this opportunity to tell my story, 30 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.960 tell the story about Jason's Run, which is my newest 31 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:37.560 book published by Wild Blue Press, actually my second book, 32 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:41.039 and it came out it was actually released on May 33 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.560 the twentieth, so it's fairly recent and I'm actually just 34 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:48.560 getting started in a lot of the promotion work and 35 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.479 getting the word out there. But I have had quite 36 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.639 a few friends and relatives who've already read the book, 37 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:58.319 and I'm getting some pretty good feedback. I'm getting excellent 38 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.520 feedback on the story on my method of telling it. 39 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.599 Absolutely tell us, just briefly, how you came to be 40 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:10.319 the author, why you wanted to be the author of 41 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:11.960 this story. Chasin's run. 42 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.000 Sure, well I have. I've had two distinct careers in 43 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:19.599 my life. I'm semi retired now, although I do work 44 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.560 four part time jobs to keep busy, and I did 45 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.120 say four my first my first career pretty much after 46 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.159 I got out of high school, I was in an 47 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:33.560 EMT and emergency medical technician working for a private ambulance 48 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.520 service out of the town of Norwood, Massachusetts, and that 49 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:43.840 service was responsible for transporting prison inmates from two prisons 50 00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:47.280 in the in the area MCI Walpole. MCI stands for 51 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.599 Massachusetts Correctional Institute, so it was MCI Walpole, which is 52 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:55.960 a notorious prison and on the East Coast, and then 53 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.479 also MCI Norfolk, which is a medium security kind of 54 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:03.000 a step down from warpole for inmates. So this ambulance 55 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:04.840 service that I worked for, I was one of the 56 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:09.159 nts that was responsible for transporting inmates, whether they're sick 57 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:14.360 or injured, to nearby hospitals. This story came into play 58 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:17.600 more or less in the Laby Day weekend of nineteen 59 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:21.839 eighty two, and I was actually scheduled to work that weekend. 60 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:23.959 I was on the calendar to be working that weekend, 61 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:28.800 and I decided that I had a girlfriend at the time. 62 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.439 We eventually married, but we decided we wanted to kind 63 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:34.879 of go away for the long holiday weekend, and I 64 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.040 reached out to one of my colleague his name is 65 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.279 Bobby's a Meadow and asked him, Bobby, could you work 66 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:42.720 for me this laby Day weekend and I'll cover fore 67 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.959 you another time, and he was agreeable. He took the shift, 68 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.839 and when I came back to work on Tuesday morning 69 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.120 after the holiday weekend, I walked into the office to 70 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.600 do my thing and get my ambulance ready, and Bobby 71 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:57.639 comes over to me and he puts both hands around 72 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:01.360 my neck and starts to choke me, kind of, you know, chokingly. 73 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:03.439 He wasn't really trying to hurt me in anyway. But 74 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.680 I said to him, I said, Bobby, you know what gives? 75 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.279 What's the matter what he says? He says, because I 76 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.279 worked for you, I had a gun held on me. 77 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:13.399 It's your fault. I could only I should be dead 78 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.600 right now. And then he told me the story behind 79 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:20.000 it so needless to say, I was it was supposed 80 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.959 to be me in that ambulance with mister Chas and 81 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.360 not Bobby, but wow, I did feel the impact. 82 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:34.040 Yeah, let's get to late August nineteen seventy seven and 83 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.480 the location is Chelsea, which you say is just a 84 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:40.439 bridge away from Boston, and you take us to a 85 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:45.959 character named Brian Rocky Fitzgerald six foot four, twenty four 86 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.399 years old. His family calls him to Protector, tell us 87 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:53.560 what he's doing late August nineteen seventy seven one night. 88 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:59.399 Well, he's actually at a send off party for his girlfriend, Jean. 89 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.279 She was going to college in Texas the next day, 90 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.120 and a lot of their friends had decided to have 91 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:08.800 a little party for her at a home and Chelsea 92 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:11.839 a mutual friend, you know, to say goodbye as they 93 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:14.600 were getting ready to go the next day. And so 94 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.560 he gets he decides he's going to go on a 95 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:20.040 on a beer run. Yeah, they were running a little 96 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:23.399 bit low on beer, and he agreed to take take 97 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.000 the car and zip up to the nearby package store 98 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.480 and buy buy some beer for the for the party. 99 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:34.519 He was approached by Leroy Chasin saying that he wanted 100 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:36.519 to come along, and you know, he'd helped put the 101 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:38.959 bill for the beer and so forth. He had other 102 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:42.879 emotives that he did not share with Fitzgerald at the time. 103 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:44.800 So they get in the car and they head to 104 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.519 the package store, and in the midst of that a 105 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.120 conversation takes place where mister Chason he wants to take 106 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:55.079 a ride to Quinsy, Massachusetts, which is about half an 107 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.199 hour south of where they actually were. Wendsay's on the 108 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.079 south side of Boston. Ll he's on the north side 109 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:05.839 of Boston. That Fitzgerald agrees, but really doesn't want to 110 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:07.759 do it. It's, first of all, it's not his car 111 00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:10.879 with his girlfriend's car. Second of all, he doesn't really 112 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:13.279 know this guy Chasing. He had met him once before, 113 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:18.600 very brief meeting, and he also heard some things about 114 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:22.040 Chasing that kind of were unsettling. He had done a 115 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.040 lot of time. He was a known criminal, a little 116 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:26.920 bit of a bragget when it came to that too. 117 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:31.199 He kind of bragged about his criminal escapades through his 118 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:36.079 early years. You know, Fitzgerald was kind of a captive audience. 119 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:37.839 I guess you could say. He's in the car and 120 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.600 even though he's a big guy and could handle himself. 121 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:45.519 He was nervous about chasing as far as if he said, 122 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:49.000 note him, if he refused the ride to Quinsy, you 123 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.560 know what, bad things could happen. So he agreed to 124 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:56.160 do it. So they bought the bear at the package 125 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:58.639 store and off they went, heading south on what we 126 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:02.560 call the express Way, which is into State ninety three, 127 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:06.360 and they took the trip from Chelsea to Quincy relatively quickly. 128 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:09.439 It was in the evening. They end up at Pageant Field, 129 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:14.800 which is a huge complex in Quincy which with baseball 130 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:19.439 fields and other facilities for the Quincy youth. And while 131 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:22.800 they're there, there's a party going on, which is almost 132 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:25.759 a nightly type thing with these kids, they're all twenty somethings. 133 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:29.040 The Quinsy police really don't mind them hanging out there 134 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.319 and having a beer or two, is, you know, because 135 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:33.600 they're keeping out of trouble and they're not bothering anybody. 136 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.200 And on arrival at Pageant Field, mister Chasin approaches a 137 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:45.480 gentleman by the name of Kevin Rossett. Kevin was a 138 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:50.600 former drug dealer who had done some wrong to one 139 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:54.399 of Lee Roy Chasin's friend in prison. As far as 140 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:57.960 not sending in the full order or overcharging him and 141 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.559 so forth. There was some money involved. And Chason actually 142 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:06.279 the reason he was going to pageant Field to encounter 143 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:12.679 this gentleman, mister Rossett, was because a a cellmate at 144 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:16.639 MCI Conquered had asked him to do that. Basically, his 145 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:19.960 name was Mark Bray and he wanted to get his 146 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:23.799 money back or the drugs that were owe to him. 147 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.279 He couldn't go to Quincy himself because he had also 148 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.440 he had escaped from prison and he was kind of 149 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:34.200 on the run and he didn't want to show his face. 150 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.600 So he asked mister Chason, who was out free he 151 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:41.240 had been paroled, would you mind running this errand for me. 152 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:44.519 So off he goes, and he gets into an accounter 153 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:47.679 of this verbal kind of exchange between them. It's kind 154 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:53.039 of heated and Chason basically just slugs Rossett knocks him 155 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:58.440 to the ground and as a result, Rossett's friends who 156 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:04.559 were nearby, launched themselves at lee Roy Chason to protect 157 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.519 their friend who was lying on the ground that assault. 158 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:13.759 During that assault, Chason pull pull out a knife and 159 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:19.159 he started randomly stabbing people. He stabbed two, one fatally. 160 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.320 He soon left the passiont Field with Fitzgerald, who drove 161 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.080 him out of there. When the police later asked him, 162 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.039 you know, you knew, you knew he'd stab people, you 163 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:31.879 knew he was assaulting people with knives, you know, more 164 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.399 or less white, Why did you drive him out of there? 165 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:40.799 And Fitzgerald's reasoning was that Jason was still kind of 166 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.279 in that groove where he might have hurt more people, 167 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.320 and he felt it was his responsibility to get to 168 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.039 get him out of there, and he did. He drove, 169 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:52.840 He drove the alleged killer out of Passion Field and 170 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.039 back to Chelsea, back to the party house. 171 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.919 You right that back at the party house. Is he 172 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:05.279 his girlfriend Jean wondering what took so long? He left 173 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.320 for hours when he was only supposed to be gone 174 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.120 for a few minutes. And as you write, the people 175 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.320 at the party had already heard that their friend Paul 176 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:19.000 Melody was stabbed and killed. So tell us about who 177 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:23.240 was at the party, including Mark Bray and sort of 178 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:28.679 the event at the party wants Jason is there, and 179 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.559 Mark Bray and Brian Fitzgerald comes back to the party 180 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:33.960 as well. 181 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.600 Well. He came back to the party basically to get 182 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:42.320 back to his girlfriend Jean and get rid of Chason 183 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.279 in some way. He again, he was hesitant to drive 184 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.480 him anywhere after the scene at Pageant Field, but he 185 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.639 felt he had no choice. He felt a threat. Obviously, 186 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.279 Chason had a knife. He didn't know if he disposed 187 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.559 of it, so he thought that he could be the 188 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:02.240 next victim. Even even while he's driving him on the highway. 189 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:07.600 He get back to the car, mister Fitzgerald actually calls 190 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.519 his mother. They had stopped at the mother's house briefly 191 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:14.200 he wanted to wash up. He was covered with blood 192 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:18.639 and Jason was with him. Not much said between the 193 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:21.639 mother and Chason, but she did witness the bloody shirt 194 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:26.759 and her son, Brian Fitzgerald basically said, we got to fight. 195 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.399 We got in a fight. He excused it as a fight. 196 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.679 The police later visited with her and determined it was 197 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.440 far more than just a simple fight. When he got 198 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.679 back to the party, he did call his mother and 199 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:42.519 she confirmed after being visited by the police, she confirmed 200 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:46.759 that yes, in fact, Paul Melody had perished and that 201 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:49.440 was shared around the party. Mark Bray, who was there. 202 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.639 Mark Bray was the trigger of this entire event because 203 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.519 he's the one that sent Jason on this mission. Kind 204 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.519 of I guess you could say. He ducked his head 205 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.679 in shame and eventually left that house after everybody had 206 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.919 learned what took place. He left that house. Chason went 207 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.600 into the went into one of the bathrooms to you know, 208 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.120 try to rinse off the shirt from the blood that 209 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:15.960 he was covered with blood. And he tried to rinse 210 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.840 the shirt, and then he teamed up with Mark Bray 211 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:21.840 who went with him and the third gentleman, and the 212 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.200 three of them made their way out of the party. 213 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.600 They did not stay long long enough for a lot 214 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:31.480 of accusatory stairs. There was a very tense time at 215 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:36.240 the house, but Chason left and then he went to 216 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:39.639 his apartment in nearby Somerville. The three of them drove 217 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:44.200 to the apartment. Now at this apartment was his girlfriend, Linnell, 218 00:13:44.559 --> 00:13:50.240 Jason's girlfriend, Linnell Travers, and her roommate, and a three 219 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.960 year old by the name of Derek Travers. Derek was 220 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.720 according to Leroy and everybody else Leroy Leroy, Chase and son. 221 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:04.679 So he was a living boyfriend with Linel and they 222 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:06.200 had a son, and he was three at the time 223 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.679 of this event. That's important and later on in the book, 224 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:15.519 because things are revealed after later on in life to 225 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:19.360 Derek the toddler. So anyways, Leroy goes to his apartment 226 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:22.559 in Somerville. He's there to get a fresh shirt and 227 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.759 his guns. He's going on the run. He's going to 228 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:28.799 go on the lamb and he needs his weapons, so 229 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.080 he retrieves guns out of a bureau draw that he 230 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:36.919 had stashed. He and Mark Bray leave Somerville in the 231 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.960 stolen car. The third man who was with them, he 232 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.000 stayed behind to face the music. He wasn't going on 233 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.840 the run with them. He wasn't involved in the actual 234 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:49.720 murder of Paul Melody, and he knew that, and he 235 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:52.879 figured he could he could dance dance out of it 236 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.519 and just face charges for perhaps a stolen car or 237 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.759 aiding in a betting an escape future in this case. 238 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.759 So he stayed behind and off Chason and Bray went 239 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:10.240 in the car. They eventually made their way to Rhode Island, 240 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.720 spent one night in a motel to kind of collect 241 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:17.639 their thoughts and make their plans, and then after that 242 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.399 night they made their way back to Boston. Mark Bray 243 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:25.480 had a room that he had rented at a nearby 244 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.320 hotel kind of off the beaten path in Boston, a 245 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.159 place called the Milner, And because he was an escapee 246 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.360 from prison, he figured that the best thing to do 247 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:39.519 was to stay at a place where he with the 248 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.639 police likely wanted check for him, like we want to 249 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.360 look for him. He was wrong about that. Actually, they 250 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.799 did eventually go to the Milner to see if he 251 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.519 if he was there, but he and Leroy had long 252 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.440 since made their way out of there with a third party. 253 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:00.159 Somebody had joined them in the midst of this escape. 254 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:05.919 Her name was Kathleen MacDonald and her story is hugely interesting. 255 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.440 She had arranged to meet up with Chason in Boston. 256 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:16.159 Leroy had sent Mark Bray to retrieve her and bring 257 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.039 her back to meet him where they were. He was 258 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.720 holding up it. He was sitting at the in the 259 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.360 Boston Common waiting for her. And the story behind Kathleen 260 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:28.960 Chasin is that she was a married woman with six 261 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:33.919 children living in the Weymouth area, which is a town 262 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:40.039 adjacent to Quinsy ironically, and she met Leroy by way 263 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.559 of a you could call it a pen palce situation. 264 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.600 Leroy Chason was in jail. He was incocerated for on 265 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:51.039 robbery at the time, and he was seeking an appeal 266 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.559 and he needed five hundred dollars. The lawyer wanted five 267 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.279 hundred dollars, so he put a chase and put an 268 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:02.440 ad in the Boston Phoenix newspaper, which is a local 269 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.640 paper that runs kind of kind of strange ads, I guess, 270 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.039 you could say, And he wanted five hundred people to 271 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:12.039 send him one dollar so he could accumulate that money. 272 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.240 And Kathleen had read the ad and she felt for 273 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.720 him and sent him one dollar in a greeting card. 274 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.640 And she actually within that card left her a return 275 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.759 address and Lee where I wrote back to her, wrote 276 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:29.079 a letter and they started a correspondence and in simple terms, 277 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.160 they fell in love with each other. She left her husband, 278 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:38.000 she left her children, and she became his prison prison girlfriend. 279 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.440 They eventually got married in the prison and that's how 280 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.079 that's how they get together. By way of being a 281 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.400 simple pen pal. Mark Bray was was best of friends. 282 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.160 They were He and Chason were pretty tight. And Mark 283 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.599 Bray had no idea that he had this woman, this girlfriend, 284 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.400 Kathleen Chasin, that he had been corresponding with and seeing 285 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.559 on a regular basis because she was visiting Chason in prison. 286 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.799 But Mark Bray, you know, he was willing to help 287 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.839 his friend. They were both on the run together, they 288 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.200 were doing what they had to do. So the three 289 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.319 of them teamed up in Boston and eventually made their 290 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:20.640 way north. The proposed destination brought on by Chason was Montreal, Canada. 291 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:23.640 That's where he wanted to hide out. He never gave 292 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:28.079 his colleague any indication as to why Mark Bray wanted 293 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:31.640 to go to Florida, somewhere warm, and he had connections 294 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.519 in Florida. But Jason was kind of a stubborn guy 295 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.960 and he really didn't say no to him. Throughout the book, 296 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.480 throughout the story, very few people had the nerve to 297 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.680 say no to le Roy Chason in any respect, any 298 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.039 respect at all. So everything he insisted upon Marc Bray 299 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:52.160 accommodated him. So the three of them off they go. 300 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.920 They end up in western Maine, near the New Hampshire border, 301 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:03.440 and the destination is a antique store. Chasin had gotten 302 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.799 wind that there was an antique store that had these 303 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:10.079 very expensive clocks that if he stole them, he had 304 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.000 a fence lined up that he would be able to 305 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.480 sell the clocks and have some seed money to help 306 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:21.599 them be on the lamb and continue their escape. Unfortunately 307 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:25.400 worded trickle Down. Unfortunately for Chasing. I should say word 308 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.119 to trickle Down that this may happen. The local law 309 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.559 enforcement there set up a kind of a sting to 310 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.000 wait for them at this clock store. They had actually 311 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.960 visited it once they were seen, and then they took off, 312 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:43.640 but then they came back and the law enforcement, the 313 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:50.000 sheriff set up a sting and they eventually apprehended Marc 314 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.359 Bray coming out of the store, Kathleen who was sitting 315 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.319 in the car waiting, and were handcuffing them in front 316 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.480 of the store when Leroy Chasing came out of the 317 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.480 building with a hostage, and that was the owner of 318 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:07.880 the store, the hostage. There was a little bit of 319 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.200 a tense moment where Jason was holding a gun on 320 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.640 the sheriff and they were pointing basically pointing guns at 321 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.519 each other. But Jason got better of it and then 322 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.480 his hostage escaped his grasp. He happened to be the 323 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.759 owner of the store. He ran into the store and disappeared, 324 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.200 and Chason took off back into the store, found his 325 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.519 way to the back of the building and an open 326 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.359 window and jumped out and he took off through some 327 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:42.559 open fields to safety. It took four hours to apprehend him. 328 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:48.599 They set up a police dragnet. There were state police 329 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:53.079 from New Hampshire, from Maine, local officers, and one officer 330 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.559 who happened to own a small plane. He got up 331 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:00.359 in his plane and spotted Chason on the other skirts 332 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.519 of the woods, and they zeroed in on him and 333 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:05.160 arrested him, took him into custody. 334 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.000 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear 335 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:14.200 these messages. Now you talk about the arrest of Leroy 336 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:21.440 Chasin and Kathleen MacDonald by state troopers. Is that who 337 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:23.039 eventually arrested him. 338 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.519 Yes, it was a group of state troopers combined effort 339 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:31.240 between New Hampshire and Maine. The store and the location, 340 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:33.839 the antique store in the location was right on the 341 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:38.559 border of those two states. So it was a team 342 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.039 effort between the two states along with the local law 343 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.920 enforcement that zeroed in mister Jason and eventually arrested and 344 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.559 brought him into custody. He was arraigned in a court 345 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:53.279 room in Maine and eventually he was picked up by 346 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.839 the Quinsy Police. They sent a contingent of officers along 347 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.480 state troopers from Massachusetts to be able to bring him 348 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:07.000 back to Quincy to face questioning and be officially charged 349 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.359 for the crime of murder and I'm robbery now because 350 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.440 of the antique store. So they were brought back to Quincy. 351 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:17.680 They were all questioned the sequence. In the meantime, there 352 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.759 were a lot of interviews going on. As you see 353 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:22.319 in the book, there were interviews going on between the 354 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:25.319 Quincy police detectives, a lot of the witnesses that were 355 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:27.240 at Pageant Field and night of the murder. They kind 356 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.920 of went through them one by one. A lot of 357 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.920 resistance on the part of these kids. When I read 358 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.359 over the documents provided by the Quincy police, it was 359 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.279 a four hundred page report book length itself, just on 360 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.920 the questioning of these individuals, and there was a lot 361 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:47.160 of resistance on the part of the witnesses because many 362 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:51.000 of them had done time. They were there's a lot 363 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.599 of a lot of drug activity in the late seventies 364 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.960 and Quinsy and basically everywhere else but Quincy was known 365 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:02.519 in Eastern Massachusetts Greater Boss scenario as being a kind 366 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.440 of a hotbed for drug activity, and so a lot 367 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.599 of these kids had spent time in jail and there 368 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:13.039 was that kind of built in resistance to any anything 369 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.480 the police would do. That and the fact there were 370 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:17.319 a couple of them that that didn't want to talk 371 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.440 because they didn't want to be what they what they 372 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.559 called rats and kind of spell out their own their 373 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:27.200 own friends. Even though Leroy Chason wasn't a friend of 374 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:31.319 any of theirs, they still felt that, you know, they 375 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:34.599 just didn't want to share the story and be described 376 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:38.359 as a rat in this crime. So the police had there, 377 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:40.440 they were cut off with them as far as interviewing 378 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:45.799 these folks. And then when when Lee Roy and Kathleen 379 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.680 and Mark Bray were apprehended, those interviews as well. Then 380 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.160 it go quite as they had hoped, but they did 381 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.640 get enough evidence. The murder weapon was eventually turned up. 382 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:58.799 There was a quite the search for that, and it 383 00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:01.839 turned up it was actually thrown by mister Chason as 384 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:05.480 he's escaping the antique store. He kept the gun he 385 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.319 had on him, but he threw the knife into a 386 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.240 fireplace and the business owner eventually found that knife and 387 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:14.279 turned it over to the police, and that became a 388 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:16.839 piece of evidence when the trial came up in nineteen 389 00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:20.119 seventy eight, the actual murder weapon. 390 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.279 What about Brian Rocky Fitzgerald, Because he had driven Leebroy 391 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:31.200 Chason to Pageant Field and then taken him from Pageant Field, 392 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.039 police had a lot of questions for him, and as 393 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.240 you say, he was known to police, he had a 394 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.319 police record. But how did they treat him and in 395 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.920 the end, were there any charges? How did they treat 396 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.880 him as a witness or a suspect in this? How 397 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.599 was he treated well. 398 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.000 As far as the witness goes. He made a couple 399 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:55.359 of mistakes during his during the questioning, he he press 400 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.039 he lied to the police. He had told the police 401 00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:59.960