Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Welcome to Secret Murders podcast and thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us again. Today I'm chatting with Pamela Niery Harbord,
Speaker 1: development manager at fraser Borough. Hi Pamela, and welcome to
Speaker 1: Seafood Matters.
Speaker 2: Hi Jim. Thank you very much for having me on
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much. Looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: I've got a lot a lot of great day times
Speaker 1: with the broch and yeah, yeah, no, it's both up there.
Speaker 1: My one of my favorites, good friends, a lot of boats,
Speaker 1: a lot of factories have dealt with there in the
Speaker 1: past over the years. Before we get going, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to assure our listeners that I'm not getting this
Speaker 1: sort of an all post of old age from my podcast.
Speaker 1: And I know whatever we've said about Fraser Burra Harbor,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the bro hardware.
Speaker 2: We susually are just the.
Speaker 1: Same as Peter hed Aberdeen Week and lyric. So here
Speaker 1: we go thick it off. What does the typical day
Speaker 1: look like for a development manager at a busy, bustling
Speaker 1: harbor like Fraser.
Speaker 2: That's a good question, so I would say it depends
Speaker 2: on the time of year what a typical day looks like.
Speaker 2: So For example, in the spring, I will be finalizing
Speaker 2: maybe grant application projects, so I could have been working
Speaker 2: on them for quite a few months. In the autumn
Speaker 2: I could be away art conferences and exhibitions. So it
Speaker 2: really does depend on the time of year. But I
Speaker 2: would say it's quite a varied job. You're engaging with fishermen,
Speaker 2: with other stakeholders, with local and the Scottish government and
Speaker 2: the UK government. You're working with economists, specialist engineers and consultants.
Speaker 2: So it's incredibly varied. It's unlike any other job I
Speaker 2: have ever had in wildlife, and it's quite it's quite
Speaker 2: thought provoking at times. It can be challenging, it can
Speaker 2: be emotional because you're looking to do big things for
Speaker 2: your port and that is not an easy thing to achieve.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of people engagement with it as well.
Speaker 1: There'll be a lot of people dependent on it as well. Harbor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Fraseburgh, I've done a little bit of my
Speaker 2: own economic analysis on this. So Frasbrough as a community
Speaker 2: has around twelve and a half thousand people, around seven
Speaker 2: and a half thousand of them are economically active, and
Speaker 2: just last year went through a huge spreadsheet of jobs,
Speaker 2: and in Fraser Brat and A worked out that I
Speaker 2: would say a third of Frazerbruy's jobs are directly connected
Speaker 2: to the harbor, and up to half our direct and
Speaker 2: indirectly connected. So it's a really I often say I've
Speaker 2: got one of the most important jobs in the brough
Speaker 2: because we all need the harbor and we're all relying
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what before we're go any further. Pamela,
Speaker 1: I love your accent.
Speaker 2: It's that's I would say. My brokeness is torn down
Speaker 2: today a little bit. So this is my posh voice.
Speaker 1: Wonderful, don't get too don't get too push. Every part
Speaker 1: is identity. What's you think the unique character and spirit
Speaker 1: about the bro Oh, that.
Speaker 2: Is such a good question. Probably when I'll never be
Speaker 2: asked again. I would say that we're quite ambitious, but
Speaker 2: we keep our light under a bushel a bit too much.
Speaker 2: And I think this is not just the harbor, but
Speaker 2: actually us as a community. Someone once said to me,
Speaker 2: brought her to just get on with things yourselves, and
Speaker 2: you did not really ask for help. And I think
Speaker 2: that that has been us for you know, generations. So
Speaker 2: I would say that's very much the phrase for a
Speaker 2: harbor personality as well. We try to be very respectful
Speaker 2: of the fishermen and everybody that uses the harbor, and
Speaker 2: we very much take a like a long term kind
Speaker 2: of view. I don't know what the way of saying
Speaker 2: that for a personality is, maybe long term perspective, but
Speaker 2: you know, we're here just as temporary custodians to make
Speaker 2: the harbor better for the future. So we've definitely got
Speaker 2: a long term perspective. And if you were in our meetings,
Speaker 2: in our regular rasis, you would hear that from us
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Anders survived centuries of changes. Are there any big
Speaker 1: challenges support has overcome and still shapes it would operate today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Fresber has been a harbor for
Speaker 2: five hundred years and a trust port for over two
Speaker 2: hundred and for anybody who doesn't know a trustport, it's
Speaker 2: not a not for profit, but it's it's it's certainly
Speaker 2: not for dividend. Nobody, no one individual or group of
Speaker 2: companies owns Fresborough Harbor and there are trusports up and
Speaker 2: down the coast of Scotland. Everything every bit of profit
Speaker 2: that we make we invest back in the harbor. For
Speaker 2: the future, and so I would say they're very expensive
Speaker 2: to run and maintain. And we've spent quite a lot
Speaker 2: of time behind this scenes trying to adapt the harbor
Speaker 2: over the generations. So Fresbury was there was a herring boom,
Speaker 2: as we all know, and Fresbury really grew and adopted
Speaker 2: at that time, and a lot of what was built
Speaker 2: was because of that, the ballaklava, breakwater and pears and
Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff. Nowadays, it's it's still
Speaker 2: about changing for the industry and particularly the fishing industry
Speaker 2: as well, and how it's changed. So boats are, they're larger,
Speaker 2: they're deeper, they're wider, and the harbor needs to keep
Speaker 2: up with that, or to try to keep up with it.
Speaker 2: But the challenge is, and I think that was a
Speaker 2: challenge of the past as well, that everything changes faster
Speaker 2: than harbor's can keep up, because it takes a long
Speaker 2: time to develop a harbor. So one of the biggest
Speaker 2: challenges is trying to see into the future and make
Speaker 2: sure that we are planning for that and developing for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you think when you the heir goes
Speaker 1: bark to my even my own grannie on my father's side.
Speaker 1: She was a fish wife and went from Eric to
Speaker 1: the bro right down to the lowest off over the
Speaker 1: course of the year. And as was obviously I'm not
Speaker 1: talking to her now. They were so happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now Grannie was. I got in quin as well,
Speaker 2: and I'm the third generation of my family to work
Speaker 2: at Raisborough Harbor too, So I think I can connect
Speaker 2: really well with what you're seeing there, or try to.
Speaker 2: Although I've never been at sea, and I've never been
Speaker 2: I got in crying myself.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you think of the bear what they
Speaker 1: did the bear Hams as well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not toughing off for that, tell you.
Speaker 1: That's for sure. Looking ahead, what do you see is
Speaker 1: the biggest threat to traditional fishing ports and do you
Speaker 1: feel the bra can turn that into opportunities.
Speaker 2: I think that's what we're trying to do. So I
Speaker 2: think the challenges that we're faced as a port in
Speaker 2: the future are the challenges that we're faced in the
Speaker 2: recent past. Boats continue to change that the industry is
Speaker 2: under a lot of pressure in many areas, costs, spatial squeeze,
Speaker 2: we have to we have to try and modernize and
Speaker 2: adapt so that fishing, which actually is Freezebera's number one
Speaker 2: business remains that way, and that is why we're looking at,
Speaker 2: you know, all of the things that we do in
Speaker 2: the future. So with a management team of just five people,
Speaker 2: and we regularly discuss what projects we're working on, whether
Speaker 2: it's from the very biggest of expanding the harbor to
Speaker 2: looking at whether we need a new wench near the
Speaker 2: fish market. You know, we look at everything that we're
Speaker 2: doing and planning. We plan it out in advance. We
Speaker 2: look for ways to prioritize the projects that we work on.
Speaker 2: So we have a kind of set of a criteria.
Speaker 2: Does it work for the fishermen, does it generate income
Speaker 2: for the harbor, does it reduce costs for the harbor?
Speaker 2: And that's how we prioritize what we're doing. So I'm
Speaker 2: not sure if I'm answering your question, but I am
Speaker 2: trying to.
Speaker 1: No, you're doing it well, and I'm as I said, well,
Speaker 1: you've sold it to me anyway. I could listen to
Speaker 1: your accent all day.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see what everyone else thinks.
Speaker 1: All our listeners are fully aware of the punishing life
Speaker 1: can be at sea. Does the Brock have the infrastructure
Speaker 1: and services that makes it difference for the crews as
Speaker 1: they come in to tie up.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I've never been at sea and I can never
Speaker 2: I can never fully understand what a fisherman goes through,
Speaker 2: but I think the things that they want or here
Speaker 2: in Frasburgh we have an incredibly good location for the
Speaker 2: fishing grounds. We have a modernized our fish market so
Speaker 2: to meet the needs of the buyers and the fishermen.
Speaker 2: We have a best in class vessel repair and maintenance
Speaker 2: facilities here, a shiplift, a dry dock, so we have
Speaker 2: everything here in Freysbury because that's been built over generations.
Speaker 2: I think what we would ideally like to do is
Speaker 2: we would like for our fish market, which has become
Speaker 2: more tidal, to be twenty four to seven again. So
Speaker 2: that's one of the things that we're trying to work
Speaker 2: on to make sure that they have what they need.
Speaker 2: A fisherman, I think when they get home the lander,
Speaker 2: they want to land our fish and they want to
Speaker 2: go home as quickly as possible. Fresborough has more fishermen
Speaker 2: I think than any other community in Scotland. I think
Speaker 2: it's over seven hundred, so hopefully we can give them
Speaker 2: the services that we need just by being here and
Speaker 2: working on what it is that they need in the future.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it works, Pamela, because fisherm and unfriendly,
Speaker 1: we're here and still keep in contact with Just say
Speaker 1: they're landing in Scrabster can look if they're fishing northwest
Speaker 1: in the deep water and that, and they'll maybe land
Speaker 1: because obviously fuel prices now, they'll they'll know, they'll want
Speaker 1: to land the nearest port and stuff like that. But
Speaker 1: if for anything, like to say they're needing the job done,
Speaker 1: it's a brock. They're going to death.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my dad was a skipper and when I
Speaker 2: said I was coming to work at the harbor, one
Speaker 2: of the things he said to me was that the
Speaker 2: Freesbury is best in class for boats repair. And it's
Speaker 2: a term that I have used ever since I started,
Speaker 2: because we often say anything that you need for a boat,
Speaker 2: you can find it within five hundred meters of freeze
Speaker 2: for a harbor, and the work is incredibly well done.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a really good statement for Freeeseber
Speaker 2: and just echoes. What you've just said is the perception
Speaker 2: of us as well, and we tried really hard to
Speaker 2: work on that and keep it going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good harms as well get good jobs done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you maintain open sort of relationships with fishermen to
Speaker 1: let them feel heard when decisions or maybe made.
Speaker 2: Try to so, and we do it in a variety
Speaker 2: of ways, so starting at the top, if you like.
Speaker 2: As a trustport, we have a board of commissioners. We're
Speaker 2: all volunteers. We have two fishing commissioners right now, so
Speaker 2: we have a whitefish prawne commissioner and a pologic one
Speaker 2: as well. So they are one of the first sports
Speaker 2: of golf, I feel like for speaking to the industry.
Speaker 2: We also try to maintain good relationships with Ian Gott
Speaker 2: now Hannah at the Plagic Fishermen's Association, and the same
Speaker 2: with Mike Park at Esterweer, and of course there's the
Speaker 2: fishermen themselves. So recently I have been phoning the fishermen
Speaker 2: to speak to them about a certain area that I
Speaker 2: want to work with them on, and they have all
Speaker 2: been really kind of supportive and accommodating and helpful, so
Speaker 2: I try to speak with them one to one. We're
Speaker 2: always at the fishing exhibition it's gip Our Expo, and
Speaker 2: I always use that as an opportunity to get them
Speaker 2: to give us feedback. So this year we had a
Speaker 2: survey and the very first question is how are we doing?
Speaker 2: So that was for them to tell us what they
Speaker 2: think about phraser A harbor and what we need to do.
Speaker 2: And of course there's the other organizations that work for them,
Speaker 2: so there's their auctioneers and there's the buyers as well,
Speaker 2: and there's just so many different opportunities to try and
Speaker 2: connect with them. It's not just me. We have a
Speaker 2: harbor master, we have an assistant harbor master, a harbor superintendent,
Speaker 2: an adeputy superintendent. The harbor master is responsible for everything
Speaker 2: that happens on the water and the safety and the port,
Speaker 2: and the harbor superintendent is responsible for everything that happens
Speaker 2: on concrete. So together we're always trying to speak with
Speaker 2: and be supportive of the fishermen as well and make
Speaker 2: sure that they have what they need as much as
Speaker 2: we can.
Speaker 1: That's very impressive. And yeah, no, it's I know the
Speaker 1: people you're talking about as well. And the harbor master
Speaker 1: is such a responsible job. Oh why And you know,
Speaker 1: any harbor I've been in, you don't argue with the
Speaker 1: harbor because it kind of major, major implications if you
Speaker 1: go against that, if there were any accident or anything
Speaker 1: happened and you didn't go by what the harbor master
Speaker 1: told you, your insurance has gone everything.
Speaker 2: And it's the harbor master that you know, you say
Speaker 2: has the ultimate responsibility. But we try to work with everybody,
Speaker 2: not against them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. If you can upgrade or change any of
Speaker 1: the poor infrastructure to make fishermen's lives easier, there anything
Speaker 1: that look come to your mind?
Speaker 2: Yep, immediately. I this is my life. So I would
Speaker 2: like deeper water at our fish market, but in order
Speaker 2: to do that, we would probably need a breakwater extension.
Speaker 2: So it's one of those things. Ultimately, I want the
Speaker 2: fishermen to have twenty four to seven access to freeze
Speaker 2: for at all times into the fish market. And that's
Speaker 2: just the number one thing for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was. I like the way you
Speaker 1: approached that, and the only thing you missed was the
Speaker 1: blue Peter fashion. And now for.
Speaker 2: Something prepare I wish, I wish.
Speaker 1: Wonderful. Can you walk it through the Brons master Plan
Speaker 1: of diversification?
Speaker 2: Sure? Sure so. Our vision for Frasebraw is for it
Speaker 2: to be a resilient trust port and a dynamic economic
Speaker 2: enabler that makes a major contribution to the community and
Speaker 2: the region and ultimately delivers prosperity for everybody in Fraserbra.
Speaker 2: The master plan is about expanding Frasebrow by almost fifty
Speaker 2: percent in size, because, as we've already spoken about, the
Speaker 2: industry has changed, boats have changed, and Frasbrah hasn't been
Speaker 2: able to keep up with that so far. We need
Speaker 2: deeper water, we need wider entrances for fishing, but we
Speaker 2: also need to diversify and welcome new industries that are
Speaker 2: operating around Freesburg as well, because by diversifying we create
Speaker 2: a more resilient business, because the harbor still is a business,
Speaker 2: and by diversifying our income streams, that actually helps us
Speaker 2: to make sure that Fresbra is fit for everyone who
Speaker 2: uses it, including and most importantly the fishermen.
Speaker 1: You have a lot of key space.
Speaker 2: We have, but we're very busy as well, so and
Speaker 2: what we are very what's word I'm looking for. We're
Speaker 2: like a Victoria in harbor, so there's lots of little
Speaker 2: littler basins, but actually we would really benefit from a
Speaker 2: bigger basin that can take deeper drafted boats and that's
Speaker 2: part of the master plans. So it would be a
Speaker 2: new basin designed for commercial activity and that could be
Speaker 2: an energy, it could be crewis, it could be cargo,
Speaker 2: it could be decommissioning. But we've also in the master
Speaker 2: plan and got plants to deepen faith Lea Harbor, which
Speaker 2: is where the fish markets are wide in the entrances
Speaker 2: to faith Lee into the Balla Clava and the Ballaklava
Speaker 2: is where I think nine or ten of Scotland's plagic
Speaker 2: fleet live and they are squeezing in there. There are
Speaker 2: some videos I think on YouTube that really needs to
Speaker 2: be improved for them as well.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's very honest and open. Can you use the
Speaker 1: misconception and explain why expanding your horizons actually protect and
Speaker 1: preserve the brox Core fishing heritage.
Speaker 2: Sure, so the industry has changed and there are like
Speaker 2: we all know, there are fewer boats in there cutching.
Speaker 2: They're more efficient. The fishing industry on its own isn't
Speaker 2: really enough to maintain the harbor anymore. It's harbors have
Speaker 2: become incredibly expensive to maintain. And so to put that
Speaker 2: into context, before I started, my colleague John, they worked
Speaker 2: on protecting part of the North Breakwater, which protects a
Speaker 2: whole harbor, and it actually protects the town as well.
Speaker 2: We then worked in another project to protect another section
Speaker 2: and to reinforce it, and the price went up by
Speaker 2: three times. So when he did it the first time,
Speaker 2: I think it was around half a million. By the
Speaker 2: time we were doing it, it was well over a
Speaker 2: million pounds. So that just shows the context and the
Speaker 2: costs that we have in trying to maintain it as
Speaker 2: a harbor. If we diversify, for example, in our gear crewise,
Speaker 2: we then bring in more income to the harbor, and
Speaker 2: that means that we have more money to invest in
Speaker 2: maintaining it, in developing it and protecting it for the future.
Speaker 2: And it's the fishermen who are always the number one user,
Speaker 2: so in our minds they are absolutely beneficiaries of that.
Speaker 1: That's good, Yeah, that's the same ghost. Good answer. How
Speaker 1: do you bridge the gap between the immediate day to
Speaker 1: day demands of working fishing boats and the disruption of say,
Speaker 1: large scale structural overhalls.
Speaker 2: So large scale structural overhaulds, can you give me and
Speaker 2: can can you give me an idea of what you
Speaker 2: mean by large scale? Do you mean improvements to the harbor.
Speaker 1: Well not just say boats are getting overhauled, but they
Speaker 1: can't move.
Speaker 2: So understood. So we have a dry dock in Freezer
Speaker 2: Brat which accommodates boats up to sixty five meters. We
Speaker 2: also have our ship lift which takes six boats at
Speaker 2: a time up to eight hundred and fifty tons, and
Speaker 2: that's where a lot of the work is done, and
Speaker 2: the harbor Master can also designate a boat can go
Speaker 2: in an area for work to be done. We try
Speaker 2: to take a long range view, so if there's anything
Speaker 2: significant being done, we will take that into our planning.
Speaker 2: And that's really the harbor Master's role. Where we've diversified.
Speaker 2: For example, I think a lot of people know that
Speaker 2: we have an Ulstraer wind basin freezerbra It came started
Speaker 2: coming in about twenty eighteen and became operational in twenty two.
Speaker 2: My colleagues spent several years planning what they were going
Speaker 2: to be doing, and everybody now wants to speak to
Speaker 2: me because I'm not free planning what we were going
Speaker 2: to be doing. So they looked at deepen in the
Speaker 2: North Harbor Basin, which was done and that was to
Speaker 2: be able to welcome bigger fishing boats so that we
Speaker 2: could move them out of one area into another, and
Speaker 2: then the shallower area was given over to smaller windboats.
Speaker 2: So we try to plan for these things as much
Speaker 2: as we can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean diverse do offshore winds. It's sort
Speaker 1: of major logistical leap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, and it was something it was something
Speaker 2: that was challenged a lot in Freesburg. At the time.
Speaker 2: I wasn't here, but my colleagues speak of it and
Speaker 2: have We've had long conversations about it. So they could
Speaker 2: see that the harbor's income was changing. They could see
Speaker 2: that we needed to welcome new business, and they did
Speaker 2: a lot of work to work out where that business
Speaker 2: could come from. But what they always have done is
Speaker 2: tried to make sure that that business is an addition.
Speaker 2: It's always an addition. It's never a replacement for Freesbrow.
Speaker 2: It was always about bringing more income to the harbor
Speaker 2: so that we could sustain it. And I would say
Speaker 2: there has been there could have been misconceptions that Frasburg
Speaker 2: was changing to wind, but we have never been a
Speaker 2: port that wants to go from reliant on fishing to
Speaker 2: reliant on wind. We want to be diverse and strong and.
Speaker 1: Made the rock attractive to the renewable sector.
Speaker 2: Close did a lot of research at the time and
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time trying to understand the industry
Speaker 2: and how it could how they could make it work
Speaker 2: in Freezebro without, you know, alienating our main business. And
Speaker 2: it was two things. I think, One we showed them
Speaker 2: that we wanted them to come, but two we could
Speaker 2: offer a multi vessel strategy, so we could offer space
Speaker 2: for an SOV which goes out every two weeks and
Speaker 2: only comes into the harbor once a fortnight, and for ctvs,
Speaker 2: which are smaller boats which go in and out every day.
Speaker 2: We were at the time very keen on the smaller
Speaker 2: boats because we saw that as a way of replacing
Speaker 2: economic activity in the community that had been lost by
Speaker 2: the fewer and fewer fishermen, so they weren't coming down
Speaker 2: to go to see buying papers, buying shopping, that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. And we saw the CTV activity as a
Speaker 2: way of bringing local jobs to freezer Brag again and.
Speaker 1: Can pushing boats and the renewbal sector can share the
Speaker 1: key space and get on.
Speaker 2: So I think that's a very good question. And I
Speaker 2: think in fraserbra that they do, which is why we've
Speaker 2: had people coming from Kanada to Japan to fraser Bra
Speaker 2: to understand how we did it, because understandably there is
Speaker 2: that there can be tension, and that is totally understandable.
Speaker 2: But I think in fraser Bra, because we planned it out,
Speaker 2: because we developed the harbor for the fishermen, we put
Speaker 2: in shore power so that it would be better for everybody.
Speaker 2: I think that we have achieved that the SOV that
Speaker 2: comes in, it's not using a fishing berth, it's using
Speaker 2: our commerce so key and the ctvs that come in
Speaker 2: they are using much much shallower area than than is
Speaker 2: really suitable for the fishermen nowadays. So I think we
Speaker 2: have shown that we can do it anyway.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's and for the like, you've shown that
Speaker 1: you can do it, and obviously you approved you can
Speaker 1: and the people work together. What about like the like
Speaker 1: the engineers, fabricators and people they got are they adapting
Speaker 1: and are they maybe doing work and servicing on the
Speaker 1: one sector as well now as the fish?
Speaker 2: I think they are. We have ctvs, sometimes larger ones
Speaker 2: come to Fraseborg for work to be done. We've got
Speaker 2: the likes of McDuff Strachan's Foreruno. I can't even list
Speaker 2: them all. Who are they're the ones who attract the
Speaker 2: boats as much as it's the harbor. We are an
Speaker 2: eco system together, and certainly one of our long range
Speaker 2: planning activities is to look at how we can work
Speaker 2: with the traders to make sure that we can accommodate
Speaker 2: the boats that want to come here for them too.
Speaker 2: So I think we are already doing it, but I
Speaker 2: think there is potential for the engineers, the marine electronics,
Speaker 2: the painting and coating, all of them to benefit from
Speaker 2: it too, And I think they are proactive enough that
Speaker 2: they are working on that themselves as well.
Speaker 1: Exciting times ahead for the bro I hope.
Speaker 2: So that's my job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, but it's working. It's a work in horbor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. Like I just really love it here.
Speaker 1: Sorry I shouldn't, I said, yes, it is about of
Speaker 1: contradicting myself. It's our work in harbor, but it works.
Speaker 2: I'm pinching that. I'm pinching that for every future presentation
Speaker 2: I have to give.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're currently working on digital auctions system for
Speaker 1: the fishermen. What advantages is will this bring to buyers?
Speaker 1: And sellers compared to the traditional debt with the showed.
Speaker 2: Auction, So yes, we are. We always try to remember
Speaker 2: that it is the fishermen that pays the wages and
Speaker 2: phrase for a harbor. It's their advalorum that helps us
Speaker 2: to that's our main source of revenue and helps us
Speaker 2: to develop the harbor. So the fishermen are a generally
Speaker 2: for the electronic auction and have been quite supportive of it,
Speaker 2: and that's part of the like one to one engagement
Speaker 2: that we're having with them. But they're generally looking for
Speaker 2: a mere modern approach, but understanding that there could be
Speaker 2: work on their part as well. It's been difficult, I think.
Speaker 2: For we've got two auctioneer companies in Fraserbraw, so I
Speaker 2: think they understand that their profile of employee is changing,
Speaker 2: so it's how do they find modern salespeople for fish?
Speaker 2: And actually electronic or digitization is part of it for
Speaker 2: them as well. It's potentially making Fraseburh's fish more widely available.
Speaker 2: One of the things that we've considered is that it's
Speaker 2: further to travel to Fraserbraw to buy fish, although local
Speaker 2: buyers do provide that service, and I think they do
Speaker 2: it very well. So I think it's I think it's
Speaker 2: just inevitable part of the journey for Frasbrow. We've been
Speaker 2: a fishingport for a long time and we want to
Speaker 2: stay a fishingport for a long time as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's what can you say about it? It's Fittman.
Speaker 1: Tell you what it gives them? Well, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to tell you anything, Pamela, sorry, but what I've feel
Speaker 1: I speak a lot to them. I've been in the industry,
Speaker 1: that side of the industry many years as well. But
Speaker 1: what it gives them is confidence.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good word. But I think that's
Speaker 2: reflected on the other side as well, because the buyers,
Speaker 2: if they're not in the market anymore with our eye
Speaker 2: as their merchant, they need confidence as well. So that's
Speaker 2: going to take some time to build up that relationship. Potentially,
Speaker 2: I think it could work for everyone, but it's going
Speaker 2: to be a learning process.
Speaker 1: I've been I've been that guy shout on the shout auction.
Speaker 1: I've been auctioneer for well over thirty forty years right
Speaker 1: and involved directly. But it would be the first to
Speaker 1: say it's coming into the modern world and boats would
Speaker 1: have as I said confidence, and I mean confidence, that's
Speaker 1: the right word. And where they wouldn't have the confidence
Speaker 1: in some ports still the lander fish if it hadn't
Speaker 1: got the buyers and the capacity keep maintaining the price
Speaker 1: and things like that. Electronic auction gives them that confidence
Speaker 1: a way to face reality. Yeah, I definitely think it's
Speaker 1: a way forward and good luck, good luck with it.
Speaker 1: And but you have a you know, you have a
Speaker 1: strong base anyway with the buyers and processors, so it's
Speaker 1: not like you're just starting from scratch.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you're absolutely right in phrase is when I
Speaker 2: was talking about that. You can look at ah Is earlier,
Speaker 2: like Frasbrow is the highest level of fish processing in Aberdeenshire.
Speaker 2: I think more employees are employed in that industry in
Speaker 2: Fresburgh than anywhere else in the country. And it's that
Speaker 2: it's that sort of statistic and that I suppose, what's
Speaker 2: the word I'm looking for, the whole cycle from going
Speaker 2: out to fish, to landing to processing, it's happening in
Speaker 2: Fresbroh so much so that actually the starts indicated that
Speaker 2: Fresburgh is the most reliant community on fish and fishing
Speaker 2: in the whole of the UK. So you're right, we
Speaker 2: do have that, we do have that excellence in fish
Speaker 2: processing as well.
Speaker 1: And from a locals point of view, then they don't
Speaker 1: have to have any fear what they're losing because I'll
Speaker 1: just say local buyers and that they think, you know,
Speaker 1: but rather than worry about this their cake, the piece
Speaker 1: of their cake, well, the whole cake is going to
Speaker 1: be so much bigger.
Speaker 2: And I think as locals they have they have more
Speaker 2: inherent knowledge than anyone else of every boat and the
Speaker 2: type of fish that they land. Yeah, their knowledge is unparalleled.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'll take a stage further Parmelin that you're
Speaker 1: right they are and you look at the places like
Speaker 1: Shetland where it's been a massive success, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: they'll be the first to say that locals may be
Speaker 1: frightened that because people can buy it from Afar that
Speaker 1: they don't have to be in Fraser, but that they're
Speaker 1: going to get less and they're going to lose out. Well,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter where the person is bidding, as far as
Speaker 1: the electronic auction is concerned, they still want to use
Speaker 1: the locals.
Speaker 2: Yes, and firs hand, I went to Shetland with my
Speaker 2: colleague John to see it firsthand as well there a
Speaker 2: few years ago and it was all locals that were
Speaker 2: involved still there buying as well. So I think how
Speaker 2: things will develop its words I'm looking for. You know,
Speaker 2: we kind of have to we have to, we have
Speaker 2: to do it to see how it will develop in
Speaker 2: Freees Bra.
Speaker 1: You're doing a lot of work on it, do I do?
Speaker 1: I take it well that you're going to say is
Speaker 1: something that the fisherman lambs in the auction and maybe
Speaker 1: just doesn't get the place he was hoping for. Are
Speaker 1: you going to take the responsibility for it.
Speaker 2: Now? For that? So the harmer is providing the infrastructure
Speaker 2: for the auction as it always has, but we're not.
Speaker 2: We don't sell the fish, we don't land it, and
Speaker 2: we don't buy it. So the whole ecosystem is still
Speaker 2: the same in that PJ. Johnston's and Westward will be
Speaker 2: the ones selling the fish for the fisherman. Still, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I know.
Speaker 1: Because and I don't mind saying that, I'll put my
Speaker 1: name into it. You're never gonna You're never gonna have
Speaker 1: a fisherman satisfied that he got a good price. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe a wee bit, I'll no doubt hear about it with.
Speaker 2: This, sure you will.
Speaker 1: When you look through the seafood supply chain. What makes
Speaker 1: you feel the proudest to represent the broke on the global.
Speaker 2: Stage, of course, that's a really good question. What makes
Speaker 2: me the proudest? I would like so this I'm gonna
Speaker 2: start a bit backwards, but I would like freeze For
Speaker 2: to be an exemplar for similar sized ports around the
Speaker 2: world in that you know, we've been through a lot
Speaker 2: as a port over the generations. We've had good times
Speaker 2: and we've had hard times, but we've never given up
Speaker 2: and we've always stayed the course. I think the fact
Speaker 2: that we're still here and we're still you know, we're
Speaker 2: we're the largest port in Europe and we're the third
Speaker 2: biggest fishing port in the in Scotland. So I think
Speaker 2: what makes me proudest is that we never give up
Speaker 2: and we're always We're always focused on what makes Freesburg better,
Speaker 2: not just for the fishermen, but for the traders and
Speaker 2: for the community as well. And we are always open
Speaker 2: to welcoming other ports, other nationalities to Frasbrau so that
Speaker 2: we can learn from them and that they can learn
Speaker 2: from us. We have lots to learn and lots to do,
Speaker 2: but we're certainly as a team and as a board
Speaker 2: of commissioners, are definitely up for our challenge, and so
Speaker 2: I think that's what makes us proudest. Like we did,
Speaker 2: we don't give up. Even when we're beating down, we
Speaker 2: get back up and we keep on going.
Speaker 1: I think you have a lot going for anyway, Pamela,
Speaker 1: because when you when you think it's just thinking of
Speaker 1: here they can come in for the auction, they can
Speaker 1: well for the services they need. Obviously they have to
Speaker 1: get fuel, lace, empty boxes, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But if they need to go, if they need to
Speaker 1: get repairs of any kind done, it's going to become
Speaker 1: a one stop shop.
Speaker 2: I think it already is, and it's like they're a
Speaker 2: pair thing. When I first came to the Harbor, although
Speaker 2: my dad had said face was best in class, I
Speaker 2: still didn't really appreciate it. And I was looking at
Speaker 2: the business case for the Harbor expansion, and as I
Speaker 2: was working with economists and years and accountants on that
Speaker 2: really started to understand the impact of the traders in
Speaker 2: Fraser bra having the facilities so that they could and
Speaker 2: did grow their businesses in the way that they have.
Speaker 2: But also it's really special because in most locations with
Speaker 2: a dry dock kind of ship lift, not all, but
Speaker 2: most there's one company doing a lot of the work.
Speaker 2: But that's not where it is in fraserbra And so
Speaker 2: if you're coming in with euro fishing boat, but we
Speaker 2: also have small ferries, we have windboats, we have cargo boats.
Speaker 2: Come you can use anyone that you want in your boat.
Speaker 2: And what that has meant is that we have the
Speaker 2: best of the best working here because they've learned. They've
Speaker 2: learned over the generations and over the decades by working
Speaker 2: for the fishermen. And I think, I think that's really special.
Speaker 2: And when I speak about that with it can wait
Speaker 2: development agencies or the government for it took out. It
Speaker 2: took a while for it to start landing. But when
Speaker 2: I started to explain exactly how many people were employed,
Speaker 2: exactly the range of services, and you were attracting two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five boats or you know, on average
Speaker 2: every year to the bro that's that's incredibly special and
Speaker 2: should be celebrated, and we would we want to do
Speaker 2: more of that and we want to help those traders
Speaker 2: get more boats here as well.
Speaker 1: I think the important thing for you as well, from
Speaker 1: the way of described it all, Pamela, which and I
Speaker 1: think major importance is the clever approach you've taken, your
Speaker 1: taking sorry to it, for they like the electronic auction
Speaker 1: you're taking from and with you. You're talking to them.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're coming with this or one sector
Speaker 1: has come in and saying that's the only way it
Speaker 1: can be. No, No, you're all talking together. So you're
Speaker 1: doing it so it's covering everybody, every sector.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're trying to. We try. We still consider ourselves
Speaker 2: to be quite small. And it's interesting because we always
Speaker 2: try to see ourselves as just part of the one
Speaker 2: actor on the stage, if you like, we're just we
Speaker 2: have a role to play and it's an important one,
Speaker 2: but we're not the only person or company there. Everybody
Speaker 2: else is just as important.
Speaker 1: You're just brokers.
Speaker 2: We're just brokers doing our vest.
Speaker 1: You know when I say that, Pamela, guy here in
Speaker 1: Casness honestly a good friend, the loveliest guy. And he
Speaker 1: has to tell you he's ninety five, he's still golf
Speaker 1: being regularly and he's just a brilliant guy. And he'll
Speaker 1: if anybody was to ask it, which I often do
Speaker 1: because I love heating it. He's a brocket jump jump
Speaker 1: backheads his name, and Jim's a rocket. And I was
Speaker 1: on this golf I was just finishing a few holes
Speaker 1: of golf one day and here I'm walking in the
Speaker 1: car park, gett into my car. Jim's walking towards me.
Speaker 1: He was going on to the golf course. He says,
Speaker 1: are you coming out for a few holes. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to do four. Of course, it appeared quite useful,
Speaker 1: quite handy for what we call cut in. You don't
Speaker 1: have to do the full eighteen. You can cut in
Speaker 1: after four holes or eight holes or that. So he said,
Speaker 1: I'm only going to be doing four holes today. And
Speaker 1: you know, here's me just finished playing. And I says, Jim, Yes.
Speaker 2: I am playing with it.
Speaker 1: So out we go. We're on the fourth fairway. Now
Speaker 1: here's how maybe we challenge for you. Here we're on
Speaker 1: the fourth fairway. And he asked me, did I ever
Speaker 1: hear the bachhen Clan poem? No? I didn't. Well he
Speaker 1: recited it. I could take it to the golf course today, Pamela,
Speaker 1: to the very sport. You know how things that mean
Speaker 1: a lot to you things like John F. Kennedy's assassination.
Speaker 1: Everybody remembers where they were when they heard that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Well, I was the same way, Jim. I
Speaker 1: could take you to the spot. Give me the full
Speaker 1: recital of the Bucking Clan poem, and honestly, I'll tell you, Pamela,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna ask you if you have heard it.
Speaker 1: If not, go and listen to it because it's in Doric.
Speaker 1: Says it'll match the best of the best ever come
Speaker 1: out of Robbie Burns.
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't heard of it, but my mom's a
Speaker 2: backin so I will google it after.
Speaker 1: It's the Bucking Clan poem.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll be going him tonight to ask if she
Speaker 2: knew of it, because she's never mentioned.
Speaker 1: It to me. That how special do you think it was?
Speaker 1: For me in the middle of a fair way getting
Speaker 1: it from a ninety five year old back and oh.
Speaker 2: I bet just quite the performance.
Speaker 1: Oh it was wonderful. It was absolutely brilliant. But oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, it's just the Doric and the way the expressions.
Speaker 1: It's just as I said, I'm not exaggerate, it will
Speaker 1: match anything, and I'm not taking trying to say anything
Speaker 1: against Robbie Burns. He's a national bard and all the rest,
Speaker 1: but it matches anything he's come out with.
Speaker 2: Brilliant, Brilliant. I'll be googling that straight away.
Speaker 1: Is there anything will point you would like to maybe
Speaker 1: the fishing industry and local community to remember about the brough.
Speaker 2: The first thing that comestant my head is another thing
Speaker 2: that my father told me, and it was that as
Speaker 2: a trust port Freezeber Harbor belongs to us all. It
Speaker 2: belongs to the community. It belongs to the fishermen as
Speaker 2: much as it belongs to the people who are working
Speaker 2: in it and trying to secure its future. And I
Speaker 2: think that's an important message and it's one that I
Speaker 2: try to share with everybody who comes, whether they are
Speaker 2: primary school children walking around learning about fishying and jobs
Speaker 2: in the harbor, or whether it's you know, our MSPs
Speaker 2: come in to learn about what we're doing, our challenges
Speaker 2: and how they can help. The harbor belongs to us
Speaker 2: all in Fraser or the bro.
Speaker 1: Brilliant And do you have any social media presence? Familia
Speaker 1: listeners can follow you.
Speaker 2: Limited. I do have LinkedIn though so and I use
Speaker 2: that for my working life. I think I've been on
Speaker 2: it for about twenty years, so you can find me
Speaker 2: there and we have a website at the Harbor as
Speaker 2: well and we post a learn news on that as well.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, I'll just say thank you, Pamela is really
Speaker 1: good and good luck with the developments in the Broke
Speaker 1: and right with you and I'll be certainly hearing all
Speaker 1: about as things progress. And good luck with the electronic auction.
Speaker 1: I definitely do feel you're going the right direction and
Speaker 1: the way you're talking and keeping everybody on board. Well done,
Speaker 1: and thank you very much for today.
Speaker 2: No, thank you, it's been a wonderful experience. On if
Speaker 2: you're in the brough, you need to chop on my
Speaker 2: door and we'll give you a tour, even though you
Speaker 2: know it already.
Speaker 1: Oh no no, but I certainly will be yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I've got great, great memories of the Broke brilliant.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jim,