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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Welcome to Secret Murders podcast and thank you

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for joining us again. Today I'm chatting with Pamela Niery Harbord,

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development manager at fraser Borough. Hi Pamela, and welcome to

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Seafood Matters.

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Speaker 2: Hi Jim. Thank you very much for having me on

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the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you very much. Looking forward to it.

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I've got a lot a lot of great day times

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with the broch and yeah, yeah, no, it's both up there.

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My one of my favorites, good friends, a lot of boats,

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a lot of factories have dealt with there in the

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past over the years. Before we get going, I just

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wanted to assure our listeners that I'm not getting this

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sort of an all post of old age from my podcast.

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And I know whatever we've said about Fraser Burra Harbor,

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we're talking about the bro hardware.

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Speaker 2: We susually are just the.

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Speaker 1: Same as Peter hed Aberdeen Week and lyric. So here

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we go thick it off. What does the typical day

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look like for a development manager at a busy, bustling

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harbor like Fraser.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question, so I would say it depends

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on the time of year what a typical day looks like.

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So For example, in the spring, I will be finalizing

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maybe grant application projects, so I could have been working

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on them for quite a few months. In the autumn

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I could be away art conferences and exhibitions. So it

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really does depend on the time of year. But I

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would say it's quite a varied job. You're engaging with fishermen,

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with other stakeholders, with local and the Scottish government and

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the UK government. You're working with economists, specialist engineers and consultants.

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So it's incredibly varied. It's unlike any other job I

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have ever had in wildlife, and it's quite it's quite

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thought provoking at times. It can be challenging, it can

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be emotional because you're looking to do big things for

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your port and that is not an easy thing to achieve.

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And there's a lot of people engagement with it as well.

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Speaker 1: There'll be a lot of people dependent on it as well. Harbor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Fraseburgh, I've done a little bit of my

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own economic analysis on this. So Frasbrough as a community

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has around twelve and a half thousand people, around seven

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and a half thousand of them are economically active, and

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just last year went through a huge spreadsheet of jobs,

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and in Fraser Brat and A worked out that I

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would say a third of Frazerbruy's jobs are directly connected

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to the harbor, and up to half our direct and

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indirectly connected. So it's a really I often say I've

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got one of the most important jobs in the brough

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because we all need the harbor and we're all relying

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on it.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what before we're go any further. Pamela,

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I love your accent.

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Speaker 2: It's that's I would say. My brokeness is torn down

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today a little bit. So this is my posh voice.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful, don't get too don't get too push. Every part

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is identity. What's you think the unique character and spirit

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about the bro Oh, that.

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Speaker 2: Is such a good question. Probably when I'll never be

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asked again. I would say that we're quite ambitious, but

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we keep our light under a bushel a bit too much.

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And I think this is not just the harbor, but

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actually us as a community. Someone once said to me,

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brought her to just get on with things yourselves, and

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you did not really ask for help. And I think

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that that has been us for you know, generations. So

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I would say that's very much the phrase for a

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harbor personality as well. We try to be very respectful

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of the fishermen and everybody that uses the harbor, and

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we very much take a like a long term kind

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of view. I don't know what the way of saying

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that for a personality is, maybe long term perspective, but

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you know, we're here just as temporary custodians to make

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the harbor better for the future. So we've definitely got

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a long term perspective. And if you were in our meetings,

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in our regular rasis, you would hear that from us

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as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Anders survived centuries of changes. Are there any big

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challenges support has overcome and still shapes it would operate today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Fresber has been a harbor for

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five hundred years and a trust port for over two

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hundred and for anybody who doesn't know a trustport, it's

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not a not for profit, but it's it's it's certainly

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not for dividend. Nobody, no one individual or group of

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companies owns Fresborough Harbor and there are trusports up and

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down the coast of Scotland. Everything every bit of profit

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that we make we invest back in the harbor. For

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the future, and so I would say they're very expensive

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to run and maintain. And we've spent quite a lot

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of time behind this scenes trying to adapt the harbor

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over the generations. So Fresbury was there was a herring boom,

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as we all know, and Fresbury really grew and adopted

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at that time, and a lot of what was built

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was because of that, the ballaklava, breakwater and pears and

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all of that kind of stuff. Nowadays, it's it's still

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about changing for the industry and particularly the fishing industry

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as well, and how it's changed. So boats are, they're larger,

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they're deeper, they're wider, and the harbor needs to keep

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up with that, or to try to keep up with it.

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But the challenge is, and I think that was a

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challenge of the past as well, that everything changes faster

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than harbor's can keep up, because it takes a long

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time to develop a harbor. So one of the biggest

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challenges is trying to see into the future and make

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sure that we are planning for that and developing for it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you think when you the heir goes

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bark to my even my own grannie on my father's side.

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She was a fish wife and went from Eric to

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the bro right down to the lowest off over the

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course of the year. And as was obviously I'm not

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talking to her now. They were so happy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now Grannie was. I got in quin as well,

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and I'm the third generation of my family to work

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at Raisborough Harbor too, So I think I can connect

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really well with what you're seeing there, or try to.

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Although I've never been at sea, and I've never been

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I got in crying myself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you think of the bear what they

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did the bear Hams as well, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not toughing off for that, tell you.

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Speaker 1: That's for sure. Looking ahead, what do you see is

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the biggest threat to traditional fishing ports and do you

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feel the bra can turn that into opportunities.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what we're trying to do. So I

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think the challenges that we're faced as a port in

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the future are the challenges that we're faced in the

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recent past. Boats continue to change that the industry is

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under a lot of pressure in many areas, costs, spatial squeeze,

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we have to we have to try and modernize and

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adapt so that fishing, which actually is Freezebera's number one

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business remains that way, and that is why we're looking at,

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you know, all of the things that we do in

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the future. So with a management team of just five people,

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and we regularly discuss what projects we're working on, whether

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it's from the very biggest of expanding the harbor to

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looking at whether we need a new wench near the

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fish market. You know, we look at everything that we're

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doing and planning. We plan it out in advance. We

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look for ways to prioritize the projects that we work on.

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So we have a kind of set of a criteria.

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Does it work for the fishermen, does it generate income

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for the harbor, does it reduce costs for the harbor?

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And that's how we prioritize what we're doing. So I'm

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not sure if I'm answering your question, but I am

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trying to.

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Speaker 1: No, you're doing it well, and I'm as I said, well,

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you've sold it to me anyway. I could listen to

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your accent all day.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll see what everyone else thinks.

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Speaker 1: All our listeners are fully aware of the punishing life

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can be at sea. Does the Brock have the infrastructure

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and services that makes it difference for the crews as

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they come in to tie up.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, I've never been at sea and I can never

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I can never fully understand what a fisherman goes through,

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but I think the things that they want or here

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in Frasburgh we have an incredibly good location for the

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fishing grounds. We have a modernized our fish market so

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to meet the needs of the buyers and the fishermen.

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We have a best in class vessel repair and maintenance

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facilities here, a shiplift, a dry dock, so we have

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everything here in Freysbury because that's been built over generations.

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I think what we would ideally like to do is

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we would like for our fish market, which has become

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more tidal, to be twenty four to seven again. So

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that's one of the things that we're trying to work

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on to make sure that they have what they need.

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A fisherman, I think when they get home the lander,

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they want to land our fish and they want to

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go home as quickly as possible. Fresborough has more fishermen

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I think than any other community in Scotland. I think

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it's over seven hundred, so hopefully we can give them

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the services that we need just by being here and

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working on what it is that they need in the future.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it works, Pamela, because fisherm and unfriendly,

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we're here and still keep in contact with Just say

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they're landing in Scrabster can look if they're fishing northwest

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in the deep water and that, and they'll maybe land

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because obviously fuel prices now, they'll they'll know, they'll want

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to land the nearest port and stuff like that. But

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if for anything, like to say they're needing the job done,

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it's a brock. They're going to death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So my dad was a skipper and when I

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said I was coming to work at the harbor, one

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of the things he said to me was that the

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Freesbury is best in class for boats repair. And it's

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a term that I have used ever since I started,

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because we often say anything that you need for a boat,

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you can find it within five hundred meters of freeze

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for a harbor, and the work is incredibly well done.

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And I think that's a really good statement for Freeeseber

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and just echoes. What you've just said is the perception

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of us as well, and we tried really hard to

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work on that and keep it going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good harms as well get good jobs done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Do you maintain open sort of relationships with fishermen to

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let them feel heard when decisions or maybe made.

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Speaker 2: Try to so, and we do it in a variety

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of ways, so starting at the top, if you like.

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As a trustport, we have a board of commissioners. We're

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all volunteers. We have two fishing commissioners right now, so

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we have a whitefish prawne commissioner and a pologic one

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as well. So they are one of the first sports

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of golf, I feel like for speaking to the industry.

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We also try to maintain good relationships with Ian Gott

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now Hannah at the Plagic Fishermen's Association, and the same

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with Mike Park at Esterweer, and of course there's the

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fishermen themselves. So recently I have been phoning the fishermen

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to speak to them about a certain area that I

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want to work with them on, and they have all

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been really kind of supportive and accommodating and helpful, so

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I try to speak with them one to one. We're

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always at the fishing exhibition it's gip Our Expo, and

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I always use that as an opportunity to get them

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to give us feedback. So this year we had a

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survey and the very first question is how are we doing?

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So that was for them to tell us what they

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think about phraser A harbor and what we need to do.

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And of course there's the other organizations that work for them,

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so there's their auctioneers and there's the buyers as well,

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and there's just so many different opportunities to try and

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connect with them. It's not just me. We have a

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harbor master, we have an assistant harbor master, a harbor superintendent,

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an adeputy superintendent. The harbor master is responsible for everything

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that happens on the water and the safety and the port,

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and the harbor superintendent is responsible for everything that happens

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on concrete. So together we're always trying to speak with

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and be supportive of the fishermen as well and make

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sure that they have what they need as much as

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we can.

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Speaker 1: That's very impressive. And yeah, no, it's I know the

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people you're talking about as well. And the harbor master

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is such a responsible job. Oh why And you know,

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any harbor I've been in, you don't argue with the

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harbor because it kind of major, major implications if you

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go against that, if there were any accident or anything

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happened and you didn't go by what the harbor master

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told you, your insurance has gone everything.

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Speaker 2: And it's the harbor master that you know, you say

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has the ultimate responsibility. But we try to work with everybody,

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not against them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. If you can upgrade or change any of

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the poor infrastructure to make fishermen's lives easier, there anything

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that look come to your mind?

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Speaker 2: Yep, immediately. I this is my life. So I would

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like deeper water at our fish market, but in order

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to do that, we would probably need a breakwater extension.

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So it's one of those things. Ultimately, I want the

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fishermen to have twenty four to seven access to freeze

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for at all times into the fish market. And that's

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just the number one thing for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was. I like the way you

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approached that, and the only thing you missed was the

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blue Peter fashion. And now for.

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Speaker 2: Something prepare I wish, I wish.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful. Can you walk it through the Brons master Plan

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of diversification?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Sure so. Our vision for Frasebraw is for it

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to be a resilient trust port and a dynamic economic

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enabler that makes a major contribution to the community and

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the region and ultimately delivers prosperity for everybody in Fraserbra.

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The master plan is about expanding Frasebrow by almost fifty

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percent in size, because, as we've already spoken about, the

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industry has changed, boats have changed, and Frasbrah hasn't been

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able to keep up with that so far. We need

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deeper water, we need wider entrances for fishing, but we

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also need to diversify and welcome new industries that are

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operating around Freesburg as well, because by diversifying we create

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a more resilient business, because the harbor still is a business,

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and by diversifying our income streams, that actually helps us

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to make sure that Fresbra is fit for everyone who

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uses it, including and most importantly the fishermen.

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Speaker 1: You have a lot of key space.

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Speaker 2: We have, but we're very busy as well, so and

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what we are very what's word I'm looking for. We're

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like a Victoria in harbor, so there's lots of little

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littler basins, but actually we would really benefit from a

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bigger basin that can take deeper drafted boats and that's

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part of the master plans. So it would be a

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new basin designed for commercial activity and that could be

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an energy, it could be crewis, it could be cargo,

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it could be decommissioning. But we've also in the master

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plan and got plants to deepen faith Lea Harbor, which

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is where the fish markets are wide in the entrances

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to faith Lee into the Balla Clava and the Ballaklava

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is where I think nine or ten of Scotland's plagic

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fleet live and they are squeezing in there. There are

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some videos I think on YouTube that really needs to

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be improved for them as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's very honest and open. Can you use the

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misconception and explain why expanding your horizons actually protect and

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preserve the brox Core fishing heritage.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so the industry has changed and there are like

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we all know, there are fewer boats in there cutching.

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They're more efficient. The fishing industry on its own isn't

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really enough to maintain the harbor anymore. It's harbors have

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become incredibly expensive to maintain. And so to put that

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into context, before I started, my colleague John, they worked

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on protecting part of the North Breakwater, which protects a

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whole harbor, and it actually protects the town as well.

300
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We then worked in another project to protect another section

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and to reinforce it, and the price went up by

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three times. So when he did it the first time,

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I think it was around half a million. By the

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time we were doing it, it was well over a

305
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million pounds. So that just shows the context and the

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costs that we have in trying to maintain it as

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a harbor. If we diversify, for example, in our gear crewise,

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we then bring in more income to the harbor, and

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that means that we have more money to invest in

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maintaining it, in developing it and protecting it for the future.

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And it's the fishermen who are always the number one user,

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so in our minds they are absolutely beneficiaries of that.

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Speaker 1: That's good, Yeah, that's the same ghost. Good answer. How

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do you bridge the gap between the immediate day to

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day demands of working fishing boats and the disruption of say,

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large scale structural overhalls.

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Speaker 2: So large scale structural overhaulds, can you give me and

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can can you give me an idea of what you

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mean by large scale? Do you mean improvements to the harbor.

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Speaker 1: Well not just say boats are getting overhauled, but they

321
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can't move.

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Speaker 2: So understood. So we have a dry dock in Freezer

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Brat which accommodates boats up to sixty five meters. We

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also have our ship lift which takes six boats at

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a time up to eight hundred and fifty tons, and

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that's where a lot of the work is done, and

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the harbor Master can also designate a boat can go

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in an area for work to be done. We try

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to take a long range view, so if there's anything

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significant being done, we will take that into our planning.

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And that's really the harbor Master's role. Where we've diversified.

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For example, I think a lot of people know that

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00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:23,039
we have an Ulstraer wind basin freezerbra It came started

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coming in about twenty eighteen and became operational in twenty two.

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My colleagues spent several years planning what they were going

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to be doing, and everybody now wants to speak to

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me because I'm not free planning what we were going

338
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to be doing. So they looked at deepen in the

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00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,599
North Harbor Basin, which was done and that was to

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be able to welcome bigger fishing boats so that we

341
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:49,319
could move them out of one area into another, and

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then the shallower area was given over to smaller windboats.

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So we try to plan for these things as much

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as we can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean diverse do offshore winds. It's sort

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of major logistical leap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, and it was something it was something

348
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that was challenged a lot in Freesburg. At the time.

349
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I wasn't here, but my colleagues speak of it and

350
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:18,920
have We've had long conversations about it. So they could

351
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see that the harbor's income was changing. They could see

352
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that we needed to welcome new business, and they did

353
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a lot of work to work out where that business

354
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could come from. But what they always have done is

355
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,160
tried to make sure that that business is an addition.

356
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,720
It's always an addition. It's never a replacement for Freesbrow.

357
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It was always about bringing more income to the harbor

358
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so that we could sustain it. And I would say

359
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:49,960
there has been there could have been misconceptions that Frasburg

360
00:22:50,079 --> 00:22:52,440
was changing to wind, but we have never been a

361
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port that wants to go from reliant on fishing to

362
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reliant on wind. We want to be diverse and strong and.

363
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: Made the rock attractive to the renewable sector.

364
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: Close did a lot of research at the time and

365
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:09,359
spent a lot of time trying to understand the industry

366
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,559
and how it could how they could make it work

367
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in Freezebro without, you know, alienating our main business. And

368
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,359
it was two things. I think, One we showed them

369
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that we wanted them to come, but two we could

370
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offer a multi vessel strategy, so we could offer space

371
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,240
for an SOV which goes out every two weeks and

372
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,599
only comes into the harbor once a fortnight, and for ctvs,

373
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,920
which are smaller boats which go in and out every day.

374
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We were at the time very keen on the smaller

375
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boats because we saw that as a way of replacing

376
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economic activity in the community that had been lost by

377
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,000
the fewer and fewer fishermen, so they weren't coming down

378
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to go to see buying papers, buying shopping, that sort

379
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:02,839
of thing. And we saw the CTV activity as a

380
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,480
way of bringing local jobs to freezer Brag again and.

381
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: Can pushing boats and the renewbal sector can share the

382
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:15,599
key space and get on.

383
00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: So I think that's a very good question. And I

384
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,599
think in fraserbra that they do, which is why we've

385
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,440
had people coming from Kanada to Japan to fraser Bra

386
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:34,279
to understand how we did it, because understandably there is

387
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,640
that there can be tension, and that is totally understandable.

388
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:43,079
But I think in fraser Bra, because we planned it out,

389
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,039
because we developed the harbor for the fishermen, we put

390
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,640
in shore power so that it would be better for everybody.

391
00:24:50,599 --> 00:24:54,559
I think that we have achieved that the SOV that

392
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,440
comes in, it's not using a fishing berth, it's using

393
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,920
our commerce so key and the ctvs that come in

394
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,200
they are using much much shallower area than than is

395
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,039
really suitable for the fishermen nowadays. So I think we

396
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,799
have shown that we can do it anyway.

397
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,079
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's and for the like, you've shown that

398
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:21,039
you can do it, and obviously you approved you can

399
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:25,839
and the people work together. What about like the like

400
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,559
the engineers, fabricators and people they got are they adapting

401
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:34,839
and are they maybe doing work and servicing on the

402
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
one sector as well now as the fish?

403
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: I think they are. We have ctvs, sometimes larger ones

404
00:25:43,839 --> 00:25:48,559
come to Fraseborg for work to be done. We've got

405
00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:53,240
the likes of McDuff Strachan's Foreruno. I can't even list

406
00:25:53,319 --> 00:25:57,000
them all. Who are they're the ones who attract the

407
00:25:57,039 --> 00:25:59,559
boats as much as it's the harbor. We are an

408
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:04,160
eco system together, and certainly one of our long range

409
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,599
planning activities is to look at how we can work

410
00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:11,759
with the traders to make sure that we can accommodate

411
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,920
the boats that want to come here for them too.

412
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,599
So I think we are already doing it, but I

413
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,319
think there is potential for the engineers, the marine electronics,

414
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,200
the painting and coating, all of them to benefit from

415
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,720
it too, And I think they are proactive enough that

416
00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:31,480
they are working on that themselves as well.

417
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 1: Exciting times ahead for the bro I hope.

418
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,039
Speaker 2: So that's my job.

419
00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, but it's working. It's a work in horbor.

420
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:48,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. Like I just really love it here.

421
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: Sorry I shouldn't, I said, yes, it is about of

422
00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:59,559
contradicting myself. It's our work in harbor, but it works.

423
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: I'm pinching that. I'm pinching that for every future presentation

424
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:05,160
I have to give.

425
00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:14,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're currently working on digital auctions system for

426
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,480
the fishermen. What advantages is will this bring to buyers?

427
00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:24,400
And sellers compared to the traditional debt with the showed.

428
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 2: Auction, So yes, we are. We always try to remember

429
00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:32,599
that it is the fishermen that pays the wages and

430
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,160
phrase for a harbor. It's their advalorum that helps us

431
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,400
to that's our main source of revenue and helps us

432
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,519
to develop the harbor. So the fishermen are a generally

433
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,880
for the electronic auction and have been quite supportive of it,

434
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,319
and that's part of the like one to one engagement

435
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,400
that we're having with them. But they're generally looking for

436
00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:59,319
a mere modern approach, but understanding that there could be

437
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,839
work on their part as well. It's been difficult, I think.

438
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:07,119
For we've got two auctioneer companies in Fraserbraw, so I

439
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,880
think they understand that their profile of employee is changing,

440
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,519
so it's how do they find modern salespeople for fish?

441
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:22,559
And actually electronic or digitization is part of it for

442
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:29,599
them as well. It's potentially making Fraseburh's fish more widely available.

443
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,240
One of the things that we've considered is that it's

444
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,640
further to travel to Fraserbraw to buy fish, although local

445
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,119
buyers do provide that service, and I think they do

446
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,039
it very well. So I think it's I think it's

447
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,319
just inevitable part of the journey for Frasbrow. We've been

448
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:51,440
a fishingport for a long time and we want to

449
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,359
stay a fishingport for a long time as well.

450
00:28:54,359 --> 00:28:59,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's what can you say about it? It's Fittman.

451
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,119
Tell you what it gives them? Well, I'm not going

452
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,720
to tell you anything, Pamela, sorry, but what I've feel

453
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,039
I speak a lot to them. I've been in the industry,

454
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:14,720
that side of the industry many years as well. But

455
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,039
what it gives them is confidence.

456
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: I think that's a good word. But I think that's

457
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,440
reflected on the other side as well, because the buyers,

458
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:28,680
if they're not in the market anymore with our eye

459
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,960
as their merchant, they need confidence as well. So that's

460
00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:35,279
going to take some time to build up that relationship. Potentially,

461
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,319
I think it could work for everyone, but it's going

462
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,400
to be a learning process.

463
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,039
Speaker 1: I've been I've been that guy shout on the shout auction.

464
00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:54,079
I've been auctioneer for well over thirty forty years right

465
00:29:54,319 --> 00:30:00,279
and involved directly. But it would be the first to

466
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:07,079
say it's coming into the modern world and boats would

467
00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:11,480
have as I said confidence, and I mean confidence, that's

468
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:16,960
the right word. And where they wouldn't have the confidence

469
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:20,799
in some ports still the lander fish if it hadn't

470
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,920
got the buyers and the capacity keep maintaining the price

471
00:30:27,079 --> 00:30:32,599
and things like that. Electronic auction gives them that confidence

472
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,640
a way to face reality. Yeah, I definitely think it's

473
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,359
a way forward and good luck, good luck with it.

474
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:45,079
And but you have a you know, you have a

475
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,400
strong base anyway with the buyers and processors, so it's

476
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,079
not like you're just starting from scratch.

477
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, you're absolutely right in phrase is when I

478
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:00,920
was talking about that. You can look at ah Is earlier,

479
00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:05,359
like Frasbrow is the highest level of fish processing in Aberdeenshire.

480
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:08,759
I think more employees are employed in that industry in

481
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:12,000
Fresburgh than anywhere else in the country. And it's that

482
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,400
it's that sort of statistic and that I suppose, what's

483
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,240
the word I'm looking for, the whole cycle from going

484
00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:22,559
out to fish, to landing to processing, it's happening in

485
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,160
Fresbroh so much so that actually the starts indicated that

486
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,799
Fresburgh is the most reliant community on fish and fishing

487
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:34,599
in the whole of the UK. So you're right, we

488
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,319
do have that, we do have that excellence in fish

489
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,200
processing as well.

490
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: And from a locals point of view, then they don't

491
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,920
have to have any fear what they're losing because I'll

492
00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:53,599
just say local buyers and that they think, you know,

493
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,279
but rather than worry about this their cake, the piece

494
00:31:58,359 --> 00:32:02,480
of their cake, well, the whole cake is going to

495
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:03,599
be so much bigger.

496
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,799
Speaker 2: And I think as locals they have they have more

497
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,480
inherent knowledge than anyone else of every boat and the

498
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,839
type of fish that they land. Yeah, their knowledge is unparalleled.

499
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'll take a stage further Parmelin that you're

500
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:29,200
right they are and you look at the places like

501
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:33,039
Shetland where it's been a massive success, and I'm sure

502
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,160
they'll be the first to say that locals may be

503
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:42,039
frightened that because people can buy it from Afar that

504
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:45,119
they don't have to be in Fraser, but that they're

505
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,519
going to get less and they're going to lose out. Well,

506
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,599
doesn't matter where the person is bidding, as far as

507
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,839
the electronic auction is concerned, they still want to use

508
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:57,599
the locals.

509
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: Yes, and firs hand, I went to Shetland with my

510
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:06,880
colleague John to see it firsthand as well there a

511
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,880
few years ago and it was all locals that were

512
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,839
involved still there buying as well. So I think how

513
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,880
things will develop its words I'm looking for. You know,

514
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,319
we kind of have to we have to, we have

515
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,240
to do it to see how it will develop in

516
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:25,680
Freees Bra.

517
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,519
Speaker 1: You're doing a lot of work on it, do I do?

518
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,119
I take it well that you're going to say is

519
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,720
something that the fisherman lambs in the auction and maybe

520
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,839
just doesn't get the place he was hoping for. Are

521
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,599
you going to take the responsibility for it.

522
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:52,279
Speaker 2: Now? For that? So the harmer is providing the infrastructure

523
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:56,640
for the auction as it always has, but we're not.

524
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,559
We don't sell the fish, we don't land it, and

525
00:33:58,599 --> 00:34:01,839
we don't buy it. So the whole ecosystem is still

526
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,079
the same in that PJ. Johnston's and Westward will be

527
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,800
the ones selling the fish for the fisherman. Still, Yeah,

528
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,840
I just I know.

529
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: Because and I don't mind saying that, I'll put my

530
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,199
name into it. You're never gonna You're never gonna have

531
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:27,480
a fisherman satisfied that he got a good price. Well,

532
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:34,039
maybe a wee bit, I'll no doubt hear about it with.

533
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: This, sure you will.

534
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: When you look through the seafood supply chain. What makes

535
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,519
you feel the proudest to represent the broke on the global.

536
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:51,079
Speaker 2: Stage, of course, that's a really good question. What makes

537
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,840
me the proudest? I would like so this I'm gonna

538
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,719
start a bit backwards, but I would like freeze For

539
00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:02,480
to be an exemplar for similar sized ports around the

540
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:06,079
world in that you know, we've been through a lot

541
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,239
as a port over the generations. We've had good times

542
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,599
and we've had hard times, but we've never given up

543
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,280
and we've always stayed the course. I think the fact

544
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,920
that we're still here and we're still you know, we're

545
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:22,400
we're the largest port in Europe and we're the third

546
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,159
biggest fishing port in the in Scotland. So I think

547
00:35:27,199 --> 00:35:29,639
what makes me proudest is that we never give up

548
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:36,639
and we're always We're always focused on what makes Freesburg better,

549
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,960
not just for the fishermen, but for the traders and

550
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:44,280
for the community as well. And we are always open

551
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,440
to welcoming other ports, other nationalities to Frasbrau so that

552
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,599
we can learn from them and that they can learn

553
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:54,039
from us. We have lots to learn and lots to do,

554
00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:59,280
but we're certainly as a team and as a board

555
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,559
of commissioners, are definitely up for our challenge, and so

556
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,519
I think that's what makes us proudest. Like we did,

557
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:07,159
we don't give up. Even when we're beating down, we

558
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,400
get back up and we keep on going.

559
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,159
Speaker 1: I think you have a lot going for anyway, Pamela,

560
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,480
because when you when you think it's just thinking of

561
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:23,119
here they can come in for the auction, they can

562
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:26,880
well for the services they need. Obviously they have to

563
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,719
get fuel, lace, empty boxes, all that sort of thing.

564
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,320
But if they need to go, if they need to

565
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:39,440
get repairs of any kind done, it's going to become

566
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:40,559
a one stop shop.

567
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: I think it already is, and it's like they're a

568
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,840
pair thing. When I first came to the Harbor, although

569
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,960
my dad had said face was best in class, I

570
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,679
still didn't really appreciate it. And I was looking at

571
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,840
the business case for the Harbor expansion, and as I

572
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:03,000
was working with economists and years and accountants on that

573
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:10,320
really started to understand the impact of the traders in

574
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,400
Fraser bra having the facilities so that they could and

575
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,039
did grow their businesses in the way that they have.

576
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,039
But also it's really special because in most locations with

577
00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:25,119
a dry dock kind of ship lift, not all, but

578
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,079
most there's one company doing a lot of the work.

579
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,519
But that's not where it is in fraserbra And so

580
00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:34,519
if you're coming in with euro fishing boat, but we

581
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:39,440
also have small ferries, we have windboats, we have cargo boats.

582
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,199
Come you can use anyone that you want in your boat.

583
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,039
And what that has meant is that we have the

584
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:50,880
best of the best working here because they've learned. They've

585
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,800
learned over the generations and over the decades by working

586
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:58,360
for the fishermen. And I think, I think that's really special.

587
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,199
And when I speak about that with it can wait

588
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:06,360
development agencies or the government for it took out. It

589
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,599
took a while for it to start landing. But when

590
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:12,280
I started to explain exactly how many people were employed,

591
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,760
exactly the range of services, and you were attracting two

592
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,320
hundred and seventy five boats or you know, on average

593
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,079
every year to the bro that's that's incredibly special and

594
00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:24,960
should be celebrated, and we would we want to do

595
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:27,679
more of that and we want to help those traders

596
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,320
get more boats here as well.

597
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: I think the important thing for you as well, from

598
00:38:33,519 --> 00:38:36,599
the way of described it all, Pamela, which and I

599
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:44,679
think major importance is the clever approach you've taken, your

600
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,280
taking sorry to it, for they like the electronic auction

601
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,239
you're taking from and with you. You're talking to them.

602
00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:59,280
It's not like you're coming with this or one sector

603
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,800
has come in and saying that's the only way it

604
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,880
can be. No, No, you're all talking together. So you're

605
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:12,280
doing it so it's covering everybody, every sector.

606
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're trying to. We try. We still consider ourselves

607
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,000
to be quite small. And it's interesting because we always

608
00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:27,320
try to see ourselves as just part of the one

609
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,800
actor on the stage, if you like, we're just we

610
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,239
have a role to play and it's an important one,

611
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,079
but we're not the only person or company there. Everybody

612
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:37,360
else is just as important.

613
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,039
Speaker 1: You're just brokers.

614
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: We're just brokers doing our vest.

615
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:48,639
Speaker 1: You know when I say that, Pamela, guy here in

616
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:55,599
Casness honestly a good friend, the loveliest guy. And he

617
00:39:56,199 --> 00:40:01,320
has to tell you he's ninety five, he's still golf

618
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:08,719
being regularly and he's just a brilliant guy. And he'll

619
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:14,360
if anybody was to ask it, which I often do

620
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:20,559
because I love heating it. He's a brocket jump jump

621
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:25,639
backheads his name, and Jim's a rocket. And I was

622
00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:28,920
on this golf I was just finishing a few holes

623
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:34,840
of golf one day and here I'm walking in the

624
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:40,360
car park, gett into my car. Jim's walking towards me.

625
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:43,639
He was going on to the golf course. He says,

626
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,840
are you coming out for a few holes. I'm just

627
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:55,519
going to do four. Of course, it appeared quite useful,

628
00:40:55,679 --> 00:40:58,960
quite handy for what we call cut in. You don't

629
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:03,039
have to do the full eighteen. You can cut in

630
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:08,639
after four holes or eight holes or that. So he said,

631
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:11,719
I'm only going to be doing four holes today. And

632
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:17,320
you know, here's me just finished playing. And I says, Jim, Yes.

633
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: I am playing with it.

634
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: So out we go. We're on the fourth fairway. Now

635
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,280
here's how maybe we challenge for you. Here we're on

636
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,639
the fourth fairway. And he asked me, did I ever

637
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:38,239
hear the bachhen Clan poem? No? I didn't. Well he

638
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:44,960
recited it. I could take it to the golf course today, Pamela,

639
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:48,280
to the very sport. You know how things that mean

640
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:53,760
a lot to you things like John F. Kennedy's assassination.

641
00:41:54,119 --> 00:41:57,719
Everybody remembers where they were when they heard that sort

642
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,960
of thing. Well, I was the same way, Jim. I

643
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:04,039
could take you to the spot. Give me the full

644
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:09,920
recital of the Bucking Clan poem, and honestly, I'll tell you, Pamela,

645
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,719
and I'm gonna ask you if you have heard it.

646
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:20,719
If not, go and listen to it because it's in Doric.

647
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,679
Says it'll match the best of the best ever come

648
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,719
out of Robbie Burns.

649
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,039
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't heard of it, but my mom's a

650
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:33,199
backin so I will google it after.

651
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: It's the Bucking Clan poem.

652
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,199
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll be going him tonight to ask if she

653
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,280
knew of it, because she's never mentioned.

654
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: It to me. That how special do you think it was?

655
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:49,840
For me in the middle of a fair way getting

656
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,360
it from a ninety five year old back and oh.

657
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: I bet just quite the performance.

658
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: Oh it was wonderful. It was absolutely brilliant. But oh

659
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,079
my goodness, it's just the Doric and the way the expressions.

660
00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:09,400
It's just as I said, I'm not exaggerate, it will

661
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:15,800
match anything, and I'm not taking trying to say anything

662
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,280
against Robbie Burns. He's a national bard and all the rest,

663
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,239
but it matches anything he's come out with.

664
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: Brilliant, Brilliant. I'll be googling that straight away.

665
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: Is there anything will point you would like to maybe

666
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:35,480
the fishing industry and local community to remember about the brough.

667
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:40,599
Speaker 2: The first thing that comestant my head is another thing

668
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:44,199
that my father told me, and it was that as

669
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:48,000
a trust port Freezeber Harbor belongs to us all. It

670
00:43:48,119 --> 00:43:51,320
belongs to the community. It belongs to the fishermen as

671
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,800
much as it belongs to the people who are working

672
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,599
in it and trying to secure its future. And I

673
00:43:56,679 --> 00:44:00,159
think that's an important message and it's one that I

674
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,719
try to share with everybody who comes, whether they are

675
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,400
primary school children walking around learning about fishying and jobs

676
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,440
in the harbor, or whether it's you know, our MSPs

677
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:18,280
come in to learn about what we're doing, our challenges

678
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,000
and how they can help. The harbor belongs to us

679
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:23,039
all in Fraser or the bro.

680
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: Brilliant And do you have any social media presence? Familia

681
00:44:30,519 --> 00:44:31,599
listeners can follow you.

682
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: Limited. I do have LinkedIn though so and I use

683
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000
that for my working life. I think I've been on

684
00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:43,159
it for about twenty years, so you can find me

685
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,239
there and we have a website at the Harbor as

686
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,239
well and we post a learn news on that as well.

687
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, I'll just say thank you, Pamela is really

688
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,519
good and good luck with the developments in the Broke

689
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:05,880
and right with you and I'll be certainly hearing all

690
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,119
about as things progress. And good luck with the electronic auction.

691
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,760
I definitely do feel you're going the right direction and

692
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,480
the way you're talking and keeping everybody on board. Well done,

693
00:45:17,519 --> 00:45:19,079
and thank you very much for today.

694
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:23,559
Speaker 2: No, thank you, it's been a wonderful experience. On if

695
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:26,360
you're in the brough, you need to chop on my

696
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,960
door and we'll give you a tour, even though you

697
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:30,679
know it already.

698
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: Oh no no, but I certainly will be yeah, yeah, no,

699
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,559
I've got great, great memories of the Broke brilliant.

700
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jim,