Speaker 1: It's always better when they're live in studio, but we
Speaker 1: are part today. It's the Big Show, Big Hour starting
Speaker 1: on our Thursday with Gordon Monson from the Salt Lake Tribune.
Speaker 2: Gordo, Happy Thursday. How are you doing.
Speaker 3: I'm doing this flying, Thanks Spence. How are you today?
Speaker 1: I'm good, my friends. I felt like you dusted off
Speaker 1: the fastball today. I felt like you reached back into
Speaker 1: the old bag of tricks and pulled out the Gordon
Speaker 1: Monson fastball. With the piece you wrote about the once
Speaker 1: proud Delta Center. I don't know if it's haunted, but
Speaker 1: maybe it is haunted plague by the ghosts and goals
Speaker 1: of losing. It's a perfect Gordon Monson column. You know, certainly,
Speaker 1: once upon a time, as you point out, and as
Speaker 1: you outline with data and numbers, this was a fortress
Speaker 1: that simply it just is not now. And it's not
Speaker 1: just the basketball team, it's the hockey team. So give
Speaker 1: me the origin story, when'd you decide to do this,
Speaker 1: and let's unpack it for our listeners.
Speaker 3: I just just came to me that both the Jazz
Speaker 3: and the Utah Hockey Club have the worst winning percentage
Speaker 3: in each of their leagues and that I'm telling you, Spence.
Speaker 3: For guys like us who've been around a while, when
Speaker 3: you see something like that, it kind of smacks you
Speaker 3: upside the head. It's just like, it's I understand what's
Speaker 3: going on. You got a new hockey team here, relative well,
Speaker 3: new to this area, and we building and trying to
Speaker 3: make some progress. And the Jazz, it's just it's just
Speaker 3: weird for them to be to have the record they
Speaker 3: have at home with only three wins. It's just that
Speaker 3: is not our orientation for that particular building. Remember back
Speaker 3: in the day, when I mean you had Michael Jordan,
Speaker 3: you had Kobe Bryant, you had great players talking about
Speaker 3: how tough it was to play at the Delta Center.
Speaker 3: And now it's just kind of like, and I get it,
Speaker 3: I get what's going on with the tanking and all
Speaker 3: that sort of thing, but still that aspect to it
Speaker 3: is just weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it makes you make a lot of really good,
Speaker 1: fair interesting points. And I find covering the Jazz and
Speaker 1: the hockey team, to your point that you point out
Speaker 1: in the piece, you give them a bit of a
Speaker 1: pass because they're not an expansion team, but they're a
Speaker 1: new team. And you know, well, it'll take some time,
Speaker 1: even if you're not an expansion team but a new
Speaker 1: team yet, to uproot your entire life and move to
Speaker 1: a new place.
Speaker 2: So let's let's see how this young group comes together.
Speaker 1: Let's see what Bill Armstrong's plan is from a jazz standpoint.
Speaker 1: Though it's certainly a different day and a different era
Speaker 1: and quite frankly a different day a different era in
Speaker 1: pro basketball. And occasionally you'll hear the quiet part set
Speaker 1: out loud when Jason Kidd says after a playoff loss,
Speaker 1: you guys don't get it. We're just millionaires cheering for
Speaker 1: each other, and you're just kind of like, okay, you know, like,
Speaker 1: don't say that out loud, man, we get it. And
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant at times, you know, we never think about
Speaker 1: the fans. Just so you guys know, there is this
Speaker 1: feeling where no matter who you play for, no matter
Speaker 1: what team you play for, as long as you're in
Speaker 1: the group, you're in the group, and you're just kind
Speaker 1: of part of this ecosystem.
Speaker 2: And it's cyclical.
Speaker 1: Maybe at times you'll be able to turn a losing
Speaker 1: team into a winning team over time, but you know,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like because you point out Jordan and
Speaker 1: Kobe and oftentimes so many great players don't even play
Speaker 1: in saut Lake. It's a weird thing to cover because
Speaker 1: you're kind of stuck in between, like really wishing it
Speaker 1: felt like it used to with how good the Jazz
Speaker 1: were back in the day and how many great players
Speaker 1: came in here and played the Jazz and the highest
Speaker 1: rated basketball game of all time was played in Saul Lake.
Speaker 1: It was Michael Jordan's last game when he hit the
Speaker 1: shot over Brian Russell. Here in Utah, we have serious
Speaker 1: basketball history and pedigree, But how do you really cover
Speaker 1: the thing when it does feel like we've moved into
Speaker 1: this new era where it's just this group of millionaires
Speaker 1: cheering for each other regardless of wins and losses.
Speaker 3: Man, I'll tell you that is a dangerous way to think.
Speaker 3: And it's just because what is the one thing that
Speaker 3: the NBA traditionally has brought that draws fans in. Well,
Speaker 3: it's a couple of things. One is the stars. I
Speaker 3: mean they've marketed that to the degree. But the other
Speaker 3: thing is the freaking competition. If that, if that goes south,
Speaker 3: then what are people looking at now? They're looking at
Speaker 3: the what the Harlem Globe trotters against the Washington Generals.
Speaker 3: I mean that that can't be. That's a dangerous, dangerous thought,
Speaker 3: I think for any executive in the NBA to think
Speaker 3: that that could seep out and really become a reality
Speaker 3: in people's minds, because then now you're just going to
Speaker 3: a play, You're just going to a movie. You're going
Speaker 3: to be entertained, but you're not there to see a
Speaker 3: real competitive battle. And I think that's what makes sports great.
Speaker 3: You know. I look around the Delta cit Or now
Speaker 3: and a lot of the fans in that building are
Speaker 3: you know, they've been around, they're longtime Jazz fans. But
Speaker 3: for the younger people, I really feel bad for them
Speaker 3: because it's like it's just not the same. And the
Speaker 3: fans do their job. I mean, the fans try hard.
Speaker 3: I mean you've heard the way that that crowd cheers
Speaker 3: for the Jazz and maybe some of them don't want
Speaker 3: to see them win right now because they get the
Speaker 3: nuances of the NBA and how you got to rebuild.
Speaker 3: But man, they don't act like it when you're in
Speaker 3: the action. We're watching these games. They are. The fans
Speaker 3: are solid, but it's not at the level it once was.
Speaker 3: And who can blame these folks for that? I mean,
Speaker 3: what they're watching is nowhere near what they were watching
Speaker 3: when the Jazz were going thirty eight and three at home,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, And I remember talking the Big
Speaker 3: Dog and I put that in the column, asking him
Speaker 3: how before a game, whether he thought how he felt
Speaker 3: about the stakes for winning, and all he said is
Speaker 3: where's the game at It's the Delta Center. Stuff said
Speaker 3: that was it. They knew or they had they were
Speaker 3: ninety nine percent sure they were gonna win because of
Speaker 3: the very environment in which they were playing. And I
Speaker 3: look at those fans that are at the Delta Center
Speaker 3: now and they just the players don't have that feeling
Speaker 3: and fans.
Speaker 1: You bring up a really interesting dynamic that has been
Speaker 1: discussed before. And you said, you know, otherwise it's just
Speaker 1: a play. You're going to see a movie. And ultimately,
Speaker 1: isn't that what it kind of is?
Speaker 2: Anyway?
Speaker 1: Because I do find this interesting, and there are levels
Speaker 1: to your fandom, right, Like, I'm sure there are plenty
Speaker 1: of people across our market that just like get excited
Speaker 1: to go to a Jazz game and they don't really
Speaker 1: care who the jazz are playing. It's a night away
Speaker 1: from your life, it's a night away from your your worries,
Speaker 1: and sports has always been this great escape. And I
Speaker 1: can remember growing up and there were two things that
Speaker 1: I used to attender watch that made grown man act
Speaker 1: like lunatics, and one was live music and the other
Speaker 1: was sports. And I'm like, I kind of want to
Speaker 1: stay in that space because it's fun, right, And ultimately
Speaker 1: we do work in the toy aisle and sports is
Speaker 1: supposed to be a little bit of a respite.
Speaker 2: But as somebody who's.
Speaker 1: Covered it for as long as you have, what's the
Speaker 1: difference between going to see a play and a jazz game.
Speaker 3: Well, for me, well, you bring up a great point
Speaker 3: because there are different motivations for different people. I mean, Spence,
Speaker 3: when I think, what do you go to a game
Speaker 3: for when you're if you're not covering it, you're going
Speaker 3: there to study what's going on on the floor and
Speaker 3: to get into the details of what's happening. I mean,
Speaker 3: maybe some fans do that, and maybe some fans just
Speaker 3: want to, like you said, get out and have a
Speaker 3: good time. But it sure seems to me like you
Speaker 3: can look this up and see how fans react when
Speaker 3: they're cheering for a winning team. They fill the building.
Speaker 3: It's tough to get a ticket. They want to be there,
Speaker 3: They're motivated to be there because the players are a
Speaker 3: representation of them. It's a I used to make you
Speaker 3: cry when I would bring this up again and again
Speaker 3: when I had that discussion with this with this cultural
Speaker 3: anthropologist who said that these teams represent the communities. They're
Speaker 3: like the feudal armies, modern feudal armies that are going
Speaker 3: to do battle against other communities for what, for people
Speaker 3: to feel good about themselves. For people they get a
Speaker 3: boost of self esteem. Why, because they're proud of their
Speaker 3: community and they're proud of the team that represents them,
Speaker 3: and they're going out to do battle against the other ones.
Speaker 3: And thankfully it's not typically violent, and we can be
Speaker 3: grateful for that. But this is this I'm ever talking
Speaker 3: with sports psychologists about that, and he said, fans are
Speaker 3: actually living their lives to some extent through the teams
Speaker 3: for which they cheer, and that's why some people really
Speaker 3: get into that. They always cheer for winners, for blue bloods,
Speaker 3: for teams that have established records that you know, you're
Speaker 3: route for the Yankees or sorry, I mean, I know
Speaker 3: that's close to your heart, but you have other reasons
Speaker 3: for that, or the Dodgers or some team that really
Speaker 3: represents and other teams. Other fans cheer for the underdog,
Speaker 3: and those are the ones that just sort of want
Speaker 3: to see if the underdog can win. But the local fans,
Speaker 3: they are locked into this stuff, or at least that's
Speaker 3: the way it used to be. Remember when the Jazz
Speaker 3: were going to the deep into the playoffs every year,
Speaker 3: and what would it look like around here? Man? You
Speaker 3: had people with their flags hanging out of their cars,
Speaker 3: and I mean it was like this was a representation
Speaker 3: of a breakaway republic. Root for the Utah Jazz because
Speaker 3: it makes all of us here and you it's all
Speaker 3: feel good, and that goes beyond just going to watch
Speaker 3: a good movie. The only, in fact, the only thing
Speaker 3: I can think of in as far as customers go,
Speaker 3: that relates to that is I mean, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you care what gas station you go to, what
Speaker 3: gas you buy, but you know, folks, folks who buy
Speaker 3: Apple products, it seems like they get behind the product,
Speaker 3: like it means something to them, like they're connected to it.
Speaker 3: But that's that's relatively rare, but not in sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then there's the one annoying friend that hates
Speaker 1: Apple and gets the Android. Then he has the green
Speaker 1: bubble in his text, and the text thread is just ruined.
Speaker 1: I mean, can we all get on the same page
Speaker 1: because you hate the one guy on the thread that
Speaker 1: has the Android because you just want the blue Apple text,
Speaker 1: and then because of him, it's all green.
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, Bence, in all your years
Speaker 3: of going to sporting events, what stands out in your
Speaker 3: mind as far as atmosphere goes. I mean, where it
Speaker 3: really was different than going in to watch a movie
Speaker 3: or play. Where was where there was electricity in the air.
Speaker 3: Can you think of it? I know you've been to
Speaker 3: many events from coast to coast. Is there something that
Speaker 3: stands out to you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the high stakes stuff.
Speaker 1: It's you know, being a PR intern with Kim Turner
Speaker 1: and Dave all Read ninety seven ninety eight when the
Speaker 1: Jazz were in the finals and being in the building
Speaker 1: and watching Stuart Scott lose his mind when Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: hit the shot.
Speaker 2: You know, you know it just it's when the stakes.
Speaker 1: Are high and I can There are a number of
Speaker 1: different examples back at the Garden, when the Bulls were
Speaker 1: in town or the Pacers were in town. I'll never
Speaker 1: forget Larry Johnson's four point play against the Pacers. I've
Speaker 1: never felt anything like that in my life, and I
Speaker 1: was there at courtside to experience that at the Garden.
Speaker 1: I've been the World Series, I've been a Super Bowls.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the most intense it's like an
Speaker 1: intangible thing. As a soccer expert, you would know some
Speaker 1: of the most intense atmospheres I've been in are like
Speaker 1: penalty kicks with something on the line, like the RSL
Speaker 1: MLS Cup win in two thousand and nine against Seattle,
Speaker 1: when you know a lot of people forget Kyle Beckerman
Speaker 1: miss his pk Landon donovanskyde his There's something about the
Speaker 1: end of soccer matches that carry a flair for the
Speaker 1: dramatic that feels a little bit more prescient and urgent
Speaker 1: than other sports.
Speaker 2: But whenever I've been final fours, you know.
Speaker 1: You know we could keep going Utah BYU game a
Speaker 1: PAC twelve championship, like whenever the stakes are high, that's
Speaker 1: when you can feel what makes sports different than simply
Speaker 1: watching a movie. But for a regular season Jazz Hornets game,
Speaker 1: you might as well turn on a documentary.
Speaker 2: At times.
Speaker 3: I just might sometimes. I mean, unless I think it's
Speaker 3: going there's going to be a reason, there's going to
Speaker 3: be a payoff for what you're seeing. But fans generally
Speaker 3: already have that connection, and so I gotta give to
Speaker 3: the Jazz fans credit. The fans in this area are
Speaker 3: pretty I don't think they're fully unique, but they are
Speaker 3: extraordinary in a lot of ways where the care factor
Speaker 3: is high. And that's a big reason that Delta Center
Speaker 3: was so sure they had great teams. They've had fine
Speaker 3: teams through the years who are getting those great home records,
Speaker 3: but the fan can't tell me the fans don't play
Speaker 3: a role in that. And in talking to the players
Speaker 3: as they came in to the Delta Center back in
Speaker 3: the day, man they certainly felt it and they were
Speaker 3: the ones doing the competing. So I mean, I think
Speaker 3: it's effective, and it's one of the reasons why in
Speaker 3: most situations, or in many situations where the team is good,
Speaker 3: it's very difficult to beat them on their home floor,
Speaker 3: on their home field, or on their home pitch. And
Speaker 3: I was at that RSL game covering it too in
Speaker 3: my Lust Cup and I remember that, man, and that
Speaker 3: place was it was in Seattle, and that place was buzzing. Man,
Speaker 3: it was just it was just cool to see. So
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what sport it is. But I don't
Speaker 3: remember feeling that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there is a difference. You know, we used to,
Speaker 1: you know, when baseball was mired in the steroid era,
Speaker 1: and then you would hear like Brad pitts ay, I
Speaker 1: used HGH for my role in Fight Club. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like, I, well, what's the difference if it's if
Speaker 1: there are athletes, you know, if there are actors and
Speaker 1: entertainers using the same products that are illegal in pro sports. Really,
Speaker 1: what's the difference if the old ideas entertainment and really
Speaker 1: does come down to competition and whether or not you
Speaker 1: enjoy that, and whether or not you enjoy an even
Speaker 1: playing field, and the moments that manifest themselves in a
Speaker 1: surprising way that nobody saw coming. John Stockton hits the
Speaker 1: shot against Houston to send the Jazz to the finals.
Speaker 1: You know, the moments that catch us off guard. And
Speaker 1: that's why you watch because and and that's why. By
Speaker 1: the way, it's an exercise and futility trying to gamble
Speaker 1: on this stuff. And I always tell people you gotta
Speaker 1: be careful because it is so unpredictable, and in a way,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like.
Speaker 2: A soap opera in a reality show.
Speaker 1: That is the ultimate in reality because it's not scripted,
Speaker 1: and the outcome oftentimes catches you off guard. It's the
Speaker 1: surprise moments when they actually manifest that reminds you like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why we watched, that's why this is fun exactly.
Speaker 3: Couldn't have said it better. And look, I was infused
Speaker 3: in when stuck and hit that shot and that building.
Speaker 3: Talk about a care factor. I mean, the air just
Speaker 3: went straight out the door, and the fans, the home fans,
Speaker 3: were so disappointed, and you could hear you could hear
Speaker 3: the jazz on the floor in that huge building. You
Speaker 3: could hear them yelling and the voices of exuberation and
Speaker 3: the thrill of victory, you know, the old ABC White
Speaker 3: rld is purse, the thrill of victory and the agony
Speaker 3: of defeat, and the thrill was amongst that little group
Speaker 3: that on the floor and the rest of the building
Speaker 3: or most of the rest of the buildings feel in
Speaker 3: the agony.
Speaker 1: When I think about Jerry May rest in peace, that's
Speaker 1: I think about that moment because I don't think i'd
Speaker 1: ever seen him smile like that.
Speaker 3: And that's what you want, man and sports that you
Speaker 3: want the thrill, you want the agony, you want the
Speaker 3: care factor to be off the charts. That's what makes
Speaker 3: it so exciting. And that's why when fans find themselves
Speaker 3: in those situations, that's when they get emotional. That's when
Speaker 3: you see people willing to pay the prices necessary to
Speaker 3: go to these games and to have an experience and
Speaker 3: to feel feel that vibe, and then to be able
Speaker 3: to go out on the street or go to a restaurant,
Speaker 3: or go to wherever and go celebrate it afterwards. We've
Speaker 3: seen all of that. That's why they have parades when
Speaker 3: teams win championship. I don't think I've ever seen a
Speaker 3: parade after a Broadway plood.
Speaker 1: Let's see now, I think that's correct. I've not seen
Speaker 1: seen a play after seen a parade after a Broadway play.
Speaker 2: That would be a weird thing to do.
Speaker 3: Although, tell my wife at because when she goes and
Speaker 3: sees the movie, she likes then she goes and sees
Speaker 3: it like four or five times, and then and then
Speaker 3: you know, and then we might see it at home
Speaker 3: on the TV at home another four or five times.
Speaker 3: She gets into that stuff.
Speaker 1: I have to say, Lisa and I share that in common.
Speaker 1: It's it's almost like I'm the type that if I
Speaker 1: find a song, I like, I'm listening to it ten
Speaker 1: thousand times before I listen.
Speaker 2: To something else. I don't know why. That's just how
Speaker 2: I'm wired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do that too, But tell me what movie?
Speaker 3: What movie? Tell me the all time movie for you
Speaker 3: that you would you couldn't get enough of it? What.
Speaker 1: I went through this weird phase where I was fighting
Speaker 1: with a cable company and that's never going to work
Speaker 1: because they turned off my cable and they claimed I
Speaker 1: didn't pay my bill. I was like twenty one. I
Speaker 1: think I bounced a check because I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I was like, screw you.
Speaker 2: I paid.
Speaker 1: They're like you didn't. I'm like, yes I did. They're like,
Speaker 1: all right, fine, no cable, and so they won. But
Speaker 1: I for like a year, I just I watched movies,
Speaker 1: and I watched a ton of movies that I had
Speaker 1: never watched before this was like twenty years ago, Rushmore.
Speaker 1: I watched probably forty fifty times Scarface over and over
Speaker 1: and over. It would be tough to pick just one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's it's like music. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like when you pull up door dashed order dinner.
Speaker 1: It's like, I know this restaurant's good, So I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna get that as opposed to trying something new.
Speaker 2: When you know something's good, that's that's kind of what
Speaker 2: you want.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, look, can I confess here? And there's
Speaker 3: there's really some guilt in some of this confession, not
Speaker 3: all of it. But the movie for me that I've
Speaker 3: probably seen more than any.
Speaker 2: It's perfect, it's perfect.
Speaker 3: Well, well that was my guilty one. I really liked that.
Speaker 3: But I look gladi hetor That's good. I had that
Speaker 3: effect for me. I love that, you know, or one
Speaker 3: from the eighties. All you oldsters out there going back
Speaker 3: Tender Mercies, you remember that, Robert Duvall. Yeah, yeah, just
Speaker 3: love that stuff, you know. So I can take subtle
Speaker 3: storytelling and enjoy it again and again. But I still
Speaker 3: don't get I mean, I like to think when I
Speaker 3: see a movie. I like movies that make me think,
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna hash it and rehash it and watch
Speaker 3: it again, but I still don't recall quite the thrill
Speaker 3: from those moments in sports over my lifetime that I
Speaker 3: and you and I have been to a whole lot
Speaker 3: of them, and we've experienced it in buildings all over
Speaker 3: the place in all different kinds of sports, but there's
Speaker 3: a there's an element to it that's just different. And
Speaker 3: you know when you go to the Delta Center now,
Speaker 3: for guys like you and me, I mean, we have
Speaker 3: memories there. You know, Larry built the place in the
Speaker 3: early nineties and from there, I mean, there have been
Speaker 3: so many moments in that building. They never got a
Speaker 3: championship there, but there have been so many thrilling moments.
Speaker 3: And it was for me more often than not because
Speaker 3: I've exorcised the fan out of me, but I would
Speaker 3: look around and see the way the fans would react
Speaker 3: in that building, and then for me, it was just
Speaker 3: the thrill of watching raw competition on the floor that
Speaker 3: you didn't know exactly how it was going to go,
Speaker 3: but there was a good chance it was gonna go
Speaker 3: the home team's way.
Speaker 1: I just remember when we were doing the Old Show
Speaker 1: and you came in grumpy because Lisa was making you
Speaker 1: go to Pitch Perfect at the theaters, and you came
Speaker 1: in the next day ready to sing a cappella.
Speaker 2: It inspired you quite a bit.
Speaker 3: This is a stupid movie for me to really really
Speaker 3: liked that one. And Family Man. I mean, I love
Speaker 3: those two movies. I can't I can't only explain it.
Speaker 3: Have you seen Family Man? Family Man?
Speaker 2: Yes? I have, Gordon, I won't surprise you.
Speaker 3: For you.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's just whatever I'll say it on air.
Speaker 1: It's one of those movies where a guy like me
Speaker 1: people are like, yeah, you should watch this, and I
Speaker 1: know what you're saying. Okay, message received, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I like my my family was like, hey, you know
Speaker 1: subtle in here. Check this movie out. So yes, I've
Speaker 1: seen it three or four times, but.
Speaker 3: They had Nick Cage in it, so I probably would
Speaker 3: would rank it low on the scale for you for sure.
Speaker 1: Let let's let me go back to the community asset
Speaker 1: element of a sports team, because you always hear owners
Speaker 1: talk about that like that's their motivation.
Speaker 2: They want this to be a community asset.
Speaker 1: They want this something to be they want this to
Speaker 1: be something the community is proud of Is that compromised
Speaker 1: when the results aren't close to what they need to
Speaker 1: be for the community to be proud in the performance
Speaker 1: at all? Or is it when an owner says that,
Speaker 1: do you feel like there's validity and uh, you know
Speaker 1: that's something that's authentic or it's like this, this is
Speaker 1: just something I'm gonna say so I can get a
Speaker 1: billion dollars from the you know, the community to build something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think, well, I think I've seen
Speaker 3: some owners who have said that, and I think they
Speaker 3: are about the dollars. And then I've seen other owners
Speaker 3: who really do feel it. And you can guess which
Speaker 3: owner feels what way. But you know, Larry used to
Speaker 3: talk about this, Gail talked about it a thousand times,
Speaker 3: and that was a gift to the community. Where you
Speaker 3: have your red, you have your blue, and you mix
Speaker 3: red and blue together and what do you get? You
Speaker 3: get purple right right on that eye. But anyway, that's
Speaker 3: what you would get with the jazz and a place
Speaker 3: where people who in their college patronize patronage would root
Speaker 3: completely against the other one and now they're sitting next
Speaker 3: to each other, they're cheering for the same team. So
Speaker 3: I think there is a value that if it's authentic,
Speaker 3: and if the owners put a good team on the
Speaker 3: floor on the for fans to gom onto, then I
Speaker 3: think it's more authentic. And look, I think Ryan Smith
Speaker 3: has a big challenge in front of him because he
Speaker 3: took over the team and he and Danny Ings disassembled
Speaker 3: a playoff team and people thought, okay, in their case,
Speaker 3: and I mentioned this in the column, they didn't have
Speaker 3: financial flexibility to move it in one direction or the other.
Speaker 3: But at least they were going to the playoffs every year,
Speaker 3: and those teams were good. I remember when twenty twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one, that was the best record in the NBA
Speaker 3: during the regular season, and yeah, okay, so they lost,
Speaker 3: but at least it was competitive and it was in
Speaker 3: the playoffs. And now what's being offered up now? I mean,
Speaker 3: there have been two seasons you and I have talked
Speaker 3: about this where they've sort of been in no man's land.
Speaker 3: They've been good at times, but they've been bad at times,
Speaker 3: but not bad enough. And so what does that do.
Speaker 3: That's like tearing off the band aid one little bit
Speaker 3: at a time instead of just ripped it right off.
Speaker 3: And that's what I think the Jazz should have done.
Speaker 3: If they were going to follow this this angle, then
Speaker 3: then do it, you know, be committed to it and
Speaker 3: make it happen. And people say, you haven't. How did
Speaker 3: that work for the seventy six ers, and yeah, and
Speaker 3: sometimes it doesn't work. Remember when the Clippers were the
Speaker 3: laughing stock. They would have top draft picks, but they
Speaker 3: would always screw it up one way or the other. Well,
Speaker 3: be committed to what you're going to do and make
Speaker 3: it work for you. But what's happened with the Jazz
Speaker 3: over the last couple of years is they haven't been
Speaker 3: They haven't been good, but they haven't been bad enough.
Speaker 3: And so now where is the franchise? Now? Now it's
Speaker 3: you see where it is? Where they win three games
Speaker 3: out of whatever many seventeen eighteen have already been played there,
Speaker 3: and that's they're going to do that? Then do it
Speaker 3: with zest and make it happen and make it pay
Speaker 3: off for you. And with Danny and Ryan they thought
Speaker 3: that they were smart enough to make this work. So
Speaker 3: you give up the playoff team because it's not quite
Speaker 3: good enough for you and there are other things going on.
Speaker 3: I get that, But now where are they now, are
Speaker 3: they smart enough now that they have the financial flexibility
Speaker 3: or are they smart enough to make it work? And
Speaker 3: I'm not sure they've shown that they are at this point.
Speaker 1: And can they find players who want to not just
Speaker 1: develop here, evolve here, but stay here? I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the Jazz historically have the draft and develop portion dialed in,
Speaker 1: but the formula for building a winning roster with talent
Speaker 1: and Pro Basketball's draft, develop and retain. And it's that
Speaker 1: third piece they've got to figure out, whether it's Hayward
Speaker 1: leaving or them deciding to move on from Gobert and Mitchell,
Speaker 1: so that wasn't necessarily a retain issue, but everyone thought
Speaker 1: Donovan was gone anyway, So they have the first two
Speaker 1: pieces figured out. Gordon, I think the underlying concern is,
Speaker 1: in today's day age of the NBA, with players being
Speaker 1: able to move a little bit freer than they used to,
Speaker 1: are the Jazz able to draft, develop, and retain long
Speaker 1: enough to allow a process to become fully baked. Because
Speaker 1: John and Carl were in their mid thirties before they
Speaker 1: went to the NBA finals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. And I remember looking
Speaker 3: up when the Jazz were struggling in the playoffs to
Speaker 3: move forward. I compared Donovan, Mitchell and Rudy Gobert teams
Speaker 3: to what we saw with John and Carl, and it
Speaker 3: was almost the same. Spence, it was almost the same.
Speaker 3: But are there is the team patient enough to stay
Speaker 3: with it? Are the players satisfied enough to stay with it?
Speaker 3: Those are big time questions. But now we have an
Speaker 3: interesting comparison. I think when you look at the Jazz
Speaker 3: and then you look at the Utah Hockey Club and
Speaker 3: get a freaking name, well, it's just ridiculous. Anyway, now
Speaker 3: we can see it'll be interesting to see if players
Speaker 3: of hockey players will make Salt Lake City sort of
Speaker 3: a destination where they really love to play, and how
Speaker 3: will that compare with NBA players. I'm going to watch
Speaker 3: that with great interest to see how it turns out,
Speaker 3: you know, and I don't know the answer to it
Speaker 3: at this point.
Speaker 1: One more thing, Goroid, I'll set you loose after this,
Speaker 1: because you know, as we're talking through this and flushing
Speaker 1: some of these topics out, That's why I always like
Speaker 1: kind of doing radio this way from a standpoint of,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of diagnosing and not prognosticating. And just
Speaker 1: coming at it from a curiosity standpoint, because you know,
Speaker 1: if there is this secular nature to the relationship between
Speaker 1: fans and teams where the team simply is comprised of
Speaker 1: rich people cheering for each other and you're the peasants
Speaker 1: that essentially provide the revenue and they don't really give
Speaker 1: a rip about you, it kind of makes me feel
Speaker 1: the way the potentially maybe in pro basketball or pro football,
Speaker 1: what have you, the way that it is with you know,
Speaker 1: like EPL soccer teams where it's such a community pillar
Speaker 1: regardless of who the owner is, regardless of the coaches.
Speaker 1: Like if you were raised in the shadows of white
Speaker 1: Hart Lane, you're a Tottenham fan, Like wherever your community is,
Speaker 1: you're just simply a fan of that team and you
Speaker 1: get together and you watch it and you are part
Speaker 1: of the community, regardless of who the people are that
Speaker 1: are actually running it. They're just stewards of it. And
Speaker 1: you know, I wonder your thoughts on that, like as
Speaker 1: far as what a community, like, what sort of community
Speaker 1: you can create if you're not necessarily thought of as
Speaker 1: part of the process of building something special, If if
Speaker 1: it really is the deal, where like sports have moved
Speaker 1: into this realm of like all of these rich people
Speaker 1: because the money is so crazy and they don't really
Speaker 1: consider the importance of being a community asset. What is it.
Speaker 1: What's it going to take for a fan base simply
Speaker 1: to create their own community. I will say I feel
Speaker 1: like that is something different about foot where the football
Speaker 1: community feels a little there's like a little religiosity to it,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's a little just they love it
Speaker 1: so much and you hear people talk about it with
Speaker 1: like tears in their eyes. I don't know what it
Speaker 1: is about football, but you know, ultimately, if it's not
Speaker 1: going to be about wins and losses, if it's not
Speaker 1: going to be about you know, considering what this means
Speaker 1: the community and making sure we're building something special. How
Speaker 1: do fans find their own community and support a team
Speaker 1: regardless of who's running or coaching it.
Speaker 3: Well, I think winning does come into play, but I
Speaker 3: mean you talk about football. If you want to talk
Speaker 3: about football, then think about place like Liverpool, where you
Speaker 3: have Liverpool and you have Everton And how do fans
Speaker 3: decide which one of those two teams they are going
Speaker 3: to root for? I mean, there's something that clicks that
Speaker 3: connects them to those teams, and I'm not sure. Maybe
Speaker 3: I need to call my cultural anthropologists to give to
Speaker 3: find that out. Somehow something clicks and they stay with it,
Speaker 3: And I think you're right. I see that in the
Speaker 3: NFL more than I do with some other sports, some
Speaker 3: other leagues, but sports, these franchises better hope that that
Speaker 3: doesn't evaporate. That's why when you and I don't know,
Speaker 3: you've probably talked a lot about this, but you know
Speaker 3: the TV ratings being down in the NBA this year.
Speaker 3: What causes that is that? Is that an evaporation of
Speaker 3: what we're talking about here, is that fans deciding that, hey,
Speaker 3: I don't have anything in common with these guys on
Speaker 3: the floor who are supposed to be representing me, and
Speaker 3: they're filthy rich, you know, I'm just trying to keep
Speaker 3: food on my table for my family. They sports has
Speaker 3: to find a way to bridge that gap, because if
Speaker 3: they don't, then I don't think people will pay the
Speaker 3: prices that they have to pay to be avid fans.
Speaker 3: Maybe some will, but will it be what made the
Speaker 3: NBA so popular. I think over a couple of decades,
Speaker 3: there was that it was drawing in the casual fan
Speaker 3: in addition to the fans who are who are basketball junkies,
Speaker 3: and that makes a huge difference. It makes a huge
Speaker 3: difference for the teams in the leagues, and the NBA
Speaker 3: better not lose that or else I'm telling you, I
Speaker 3: don't know how optimistic I would be about that. They've
Speaker 3: got to find a way to connect and these you
Speaker 3: know that you see some fans or see some players
Speaker 3: professional who connect, who go out of their way to
Speaker 3: sign autographs, to meet people, to make those connections. And
Speaker 3: sometimes in the NBA you see players that just sort
Speaker 3: of you know, I got it made regardless of what happens,
Speaker 3: and that that along with gambling, those two things are
Speaker 3: poisoned for professional sports. So you got to stay away
Speaker 3: from him.
Speaker 2: Well said.
Speaker 1: All Right, Gord, we blew up the clock, but that
Speaker 1: makes you proud because you taught me how to do it.
Speaker 1: So we'll set you loose on this Thursday and we'll
Speaker 1: chat soon. Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 3: All right, and God bless Bob Yuker. Thank goodness. Guys
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Exist, well said, Well said, talk about existing in the
Speaker 1: toy isle. And we're gonna bring in Craig Bowlerjack coming
Speaker 1: up in a little bit. I think, man, we can
Speaker 1: talk about this topic for so long because the NBA
Speaker 1: also lucked in a little bit in the nineties, back
Speaker 1: in that era where all of those superstar players wanted
Speaker 1: to rip each other's throats out competitively in a way
Speaker 1: that you just don't see anymore. Like Magic and Larry
Speaker 1: and Michael. They wanted to kill you and slit your throat.
Speaker 1: And Kobe had a little bit of that right and
Speaker 1: is as much criticism as Russell Westbrook has taken over
Speaker 1: the years for simply not being a player where you
Speaker 1: can win anything special with. He has a little bit
Speaker 1: of that. The other modern day guys don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are isolated incidents. It's one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: I kind of like watching Memphis play, because they kind
Speaker 1: of want to smoke. I don't know, man, I think
Speaker 1: it's an interesting time, and of course we're coming out
Speaker 1: it through the prism of trying to cover a local
Speaker 1: team that isn't serious about winning