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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy?

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<v Speaker 1>up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>it's dot net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Richard Campbell.

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<v Speaker 1>We're here for episode nineteen hundred and eighty five. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the year that we both graduated from high school.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, no, graduating eighty four. But you know I'm an overachiever.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's true. You skipped a grade I and only

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<v Speaker 1>one only what I mean? Okay, Well, anyway, we're here

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<v Speaker 1>with Schmooley Angel. We'll be talking to him in a

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<v Speaker 1>few minutes. But first, well, as long as we're on

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty five, let's run through what happened, all right?

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<v Speaker 1>All right? Well, International Youth Year, United Nations. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a tragic year for Ethiopia. The famine in Ethiopia prompted

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<v Speaker 1>international humanitarian efforts and I got to thinking.

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<v Speaker 2>That's live AID.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Live Aid. Happened, you know, feed the world. But

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<v Speaker 1>also like there's so many more famines that have happened

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<v Speaker 1>in the last I don't know ten years that are

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<v Speaker 1>just as huge, and you know, we've become kind of

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<v Speaker 1>immune to hearing about them. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the other reality, of course, is that we make

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<v Speaker 2>far more calories than is needed to feed everyone in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. All payments now are political. Yeah, there's enough food,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just you choose to feed people or not.

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<v Speaker 1>Mikha Al Gorbachev became the leader of the Soviet Union,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was some earthquakes and an eruption in Columbia

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<v Speaker 1>of Nevada Del Ruiz, Mexico City had an earthquake, but

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<v Speaker 1>windows one point zero yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Ye hundred bucks for one point oh.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember it was basically a DOS shell. It was terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>That was it was a good proof of concept. The

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<v Speaker 1>Domain Name system was created DNS in nineteen eighty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Very cool.

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<v Speaker 2>The first dot com eroil gets registered. Then you want

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<v Speaker 2>to guess what it was. I don't know nothing. It's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing fun Like you would think it'd be sex dot

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<v Speaker 2>com or something, but no, it was Symbolics dot com Symbolics. Yeah, wow,

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<v Speaker 2>it was company okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Top ten movies Back to the Future, Rambo, First Blood

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<v Speaker 1>Part two, Beverly Hills, Cop Rocky four, Cocoon, The Goonies,

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<v Speaker 1>Witness Loved Witness, Police Academy two, their first assignment of

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<v Speaker 1>view to a Kill, and The Breakfast Club.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, the Color Purple Reanimator, Fright Night. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of good movies in nineteen eighty five.

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<v Speaker 2>But maybe it's just our age that we like all

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<v Speaker 2>the movies from nineteen eighty five.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably, I mean this was our movie time, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have some you have a list, I hear.

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<v Speaker 2>I do as usual. I'm not going to go on

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<v Speaker 2>the shuttle side. There were nine Shuttle missions in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty five. I'm not going to list them all to

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<v Speaker 2>Discovery the shuttle. Discovery did the most work that year,

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<v Speaker 2>flew five of the missions, so they would turning them

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<v Speaker 2>over pretty fast. Right, We're just a year before the

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<v Speaker 2>Challenger disaster, which changes everything. Speaking of Challenger, in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty five, Challenger had the only ever abort to orbit incident.

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<v Speaker 2>This was sts fifty one f so on the way up.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you remember how Shuttle flies, it's about two

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<v Speaker 2>and a half minutes with the solid rocker bushes and

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<v Speaker 2>its separated. At three and a half minutes, there was

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<v Speaker 2>a sensor failure on the fuel turbopump for the center

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<v Speaker 2>and SSME the center engine. It was reading as over

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<v Speaker 2>temperature and so it failed and then which is serious.

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<v Speaker 2>But about two minutes later, at five point forty three,

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<v Speaker 2>the second sensor failed. With both sensors down, the computer

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<v Speaker 2>automatically shuts off the engine.

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<v Speaker 1>So did they know that it was the sensors that

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<v Speaker 1>failed or did they just see these high temperature readings.

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<v Speaker 2>They're seeing the high temperature readings, and there is an engineer,

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<v Speaker 2>her name is Jenny Howard, the booster systems engineer, who's

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<v Speaker 2>analyzing what's going on and realizes that it's likely the

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<v Speaker 2>sensor around the time at the eight minute mark where

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<v Speaker 2>sensor fails on the right engine.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And she realizes if the second sensor fails, the computer

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<v Speaker 2>will shut off that engine and they'll lose the orbiter

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<v Speaker 2>and its crew. And so in that time span, imagine

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<v Speaker 2>this whole thing's happen in four or five minutes. You've

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<v Speaker 2>got to figure it out enough that she tells the

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<v Speaker 2>crew to disable the or inhibit automatic shutdowns. Just yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and this would be a good movie. It was if

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<v Speaker 2>it came out in nineteen eighty five, right, It just

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<v Speaker 2>happened so quickly, like the entire we forget that the

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<v Speaker 2>entire time runtime of those engines is like eight and

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<v Speaker 2>a half minutes, and then they're in orbit, and so

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<v Speaker 2>now the reality is being down an engine. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is before the software was fantasy enough to run the

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<v Speaker 2>other engines for longer. So at the end of the

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<v Speaker 2>eight and a half minutes when it shuts down, they

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<v Speaker 2>are aboording to orbit. So they have not reached the

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<v Speaker 2>orbiting intended which was three hundred and eighty five kilometers.

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<v Speaker 2>They're two hundred and sixty five kilometers. That's high enough

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<v Speaker 2>to stay in orbit. It's about one hundred and seventy miles,

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<v Speaker 2>and so they do their entire mission from that lower orbit.

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<v Speaker 2>Only time an engine ever failed on the Shuttle on

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<v Speaker 2>the way up, and only because of the quick thinking

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<v Speaker 2>of this engineer of Jenny Howard, that they saved that

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<v Speaker 2>entire mission. Jenny Howard hero Challenger flew three times that year,

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<v Speaker 2>including that particular mission. And then this was the first

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<v Speaker 2>year that the Shuttle Atlantis was flying, and so Atlantis

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<v Speaker 2>will fly twice.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Eighty five is also we're coming up on Haley's comets return,

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<v Speaker 2>which is actually eighty six, and so Japan launches a

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<v Speaker 2>spacecraft called Sekakaki specifically to go observe Haley's comment by

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<v Speaker 2>and doing that becomes only the third nation ever at

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<v Speaker 2>the time to send off an interplanetary flight something above

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<v Speaker 2>orbit Earth orbit, and it's to go out to Haley's comment.

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<v Speaker 2>Later in the same year, the Europead Space Agency will

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<v Speaker 2>launch Gyatto, which is doing the same thing you're going

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<v Speaker 2>after Haley's comment.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk more about that in the next show

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty six, when Haley actually comes to the

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<v Speaker 2>view around Earth and how a big deal that was.

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<v Speaker 2>On the Soviet side, the Soviets fly to had actually

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<v Speaker 2>launched two more missions to Venuses are the Vega missions

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<v Speaker 2>versus the Venera missions. These are newer vehicles they launched

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<v Speaker 2>in December of eighty four, but they actually reached Vetus

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<v Speaker 2>in eighty five. Their fly by probes, the carrier vehicles

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<v Speaker 2>that actually drop the landers down on Venus then do

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<v Speaker 2>a slingshot around Venus to go also intercept Haley's comment,

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<v Speaker 2>so they both of those did that, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>Landers themselves were very much like the Veanera missions. They

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<v Speaker 2>went down to the surface. But most of what we

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<v Speaker 2>know about Venus comes from these Venera and Vega missions.

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<v Speaker 2>All of these will be the last. That's it for space.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to talk about two general science things. One

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<v Speaker 2>I think is very well, they're both relevant to us,

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<v Speaker 2>but very relevant to you. Is this is the year

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<v Speaker 2>that Robert Ballard founds the Titanic. Yeah, that's right, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's side of woods Hole, just not that far from you.

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<v Speaker 1>And he landed at the Mystic Aquarium that's his home

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<v Speaker 1>center now and he's got a lot of Titanic exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>And of course I grew up in Mystic, so yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is it's important to me. You're part of

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<v Speaker 2>the world, so I don't know how much you know

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<v Speaker 2>of the story. Of course, after Titanic sinks, with folks

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<v Speaker 2>like Jacob Astris over going down there and the Guggenheims

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<v Speaker 2>were on there too and died on the ship, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of interest in finding and recovering the ship,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe recovering bodies. There's a lot of ealth that went

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<v Speaker 2>down and so forth, and there's all these ideas, but

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<v Speaker 2>of course they're ridiculous. They never go anywhere. The first

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<v Speaker 2>real attempts to find Titanic at all. It's actually a

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<v Speaker 2>wealthy oil man. This is a nineteen eighty a guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Jack Grimm. Before the tech billionaires, there were wealthy

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<v Speaker 2>oil people that did silly things with their money, and

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<v Speaker 2>so he had some sonar systems and so forth. He

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<v Speaker 2>had multiple missions over several years and never found Titanic,

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<v Speaker 2>although once Titanic was found, they realized that in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty three his crew and equipment traveled almost directly over

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<v Speaker 2>Titanic with their senses just weren't able to detect it.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>In that same time span, Robert Ballad is actually doing

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<v Speaker 2>work for the Navy with a system they called Argo

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<v Speaker 2>and Jason, as in Jason and the Argonauts. And Argo

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<v Speaker 2>was a deep water submerciol designed to be towed behind

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<v Speaker 2>a ship that then had a tethered rover that could

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<v Speaker 2>call Jason that would go out from under that. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>this was actually a classified system built for the Navy

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<v Speaker 2>to find Thresher and Scorpion American submarines that had imploded

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<v Speaker 2>him around the bottom, and he succeeded in doing that

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<v Speaker 2>and what so Ballard basically was operating the system on

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<v Speaker 2>behalf of the Nighty to learn how to find lost

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<v Speaker 2>submarines and to maintain the equipments of it. Ever happened again,

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<v Speaker 2>they could get to it quicker, right, They Threshered, the

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<v Speaker 2>Scorpion had gone down decades before. And one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things he learned any published papers on this is this

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<v Speaker 2>whole when a disaster like this happens and the vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>breaks up, the submarine or the ship, the lighter debris

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<v Speaker 2>falls in a wider area, and you have these debris

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<v Speaker 2>field effects, right that can cover kilometers. You know, the

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<v Speaker 2>vehicle itself is small, the ship itself will be small,

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<v Speaker 2>but it makes a big debris field. And so one

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<v Speaker 2>of his insights from that is to search for the

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<v Speaker 2>debris field rather than the search for the ship itself.

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<v Speaker 1>Because the debris fields kind of like breadcrumbs that'll lead

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<v Speaker 1>you to the big parts exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And so he had done this to find Thresher, and

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<v Speaker 2>in between the times that he's doing searches for thresh

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<v Speaker 2>Sure and Scorpion, while he still has a crew out,

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<v Speaker 2>he would get a little bit of time to go

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<v Speaker 2>do Titanic this is all in the Atlantic area, more

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<v Speaker 2>or less, and sure enough, with only a week of

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<v Speaker 2>time after doing search, after locating Thresher, he had a

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<v Speaker 2>week of time. He goes looking for the debris field

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<v Speaker 2>and finds a boiler which leads to another piece of debris,

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<v Speaker 2>another piece of debris that leads them to Titanic.

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<v Speaker 1>He also found the Lusitania. If I'm not mistaken, didn't he.

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<v Speaker 2>He found the Lusitania. He found Bismarck like he's the man,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, he's also taught a lot of other

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<v Speaker 2>people how to do it. Now, Paul Allen's crew who've

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<v Speaker 2>gone after used to go after World War two ships

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<v Speaker 2>Paul Alans passed away now found Musashi and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Very much similar techniques. So man missions to the two

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<v Speaker 2>Titanic will happen the next year. But this was the

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<v Speaker 2>find and just I don't think most people realize, like

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<v Speaker 2>largely financed by the US Navy to deal with submarine issues.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, what more science one and this is also

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<v Speaker 2>a long This is the year of the first practical

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<v Speaker 2>lithium ion battery. Now, lithium ion batteries have been around

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<v Speaker 2>long before that we associate this battery with a guy

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<v Speaker 2>named Akira Yoshino, but you know other names and they're

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<v Speaker 2>all like the three people shared a Nobel Prize in

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<v Speaker 2>Chemistry in twenty nineteen for the lithium ion battery. M

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<v Speaker 2>Stanley Whittington, who built the original batdies in the seventies.

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<v Speaker 2>He used titanium diceulfide and lithium aluminum which had a

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<v Speaker 2>tendency to create fires and it was a dangerous battery

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<v Speaker 2>but worked. And then John B. Goodenough, the English fellow.

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<v Speaker 2>Lots of people know that name nineteen eighty. His name,

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<v Speaker 2>last name is literally good Enough, and this guy is

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<v Speaker 2>an incredible inventor, Like the British are super proud of him.

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<v Speaker 2>His story's awesome and you know, a little off the path,

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<v Speaker 2>but he definitely improved the design in nineteen eighty by

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<v Speaker 2>changing the catho to lithium cobald oxides. But it's a

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<v Speaker 2>Kira Yashino that came up with the carbonaceous anode working

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<v Speaker 2>at a company called the Sashi Casse and that battery

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<v Speaker 2>design will be commercialized by Ashi Casse in their work

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<v Speaker 2>with Sony to make the first commercial lithium I in

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<v Speaker 2>batteriesnineteen nineties. But that battery design was completed by a

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<v Speaker 2>Kirioshino net.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Okay, very cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I couldn't pass either one of those up. They

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<v Speaker 2>just seemed super relevant, right right, okay. On the competing side,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteeny five is a banner year beyond Shawstrup publishes the

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<v Speaker 2>C plus plus programming Language book and really sets the

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<v Speaker 2>plus plus on its path.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>There. Microsoft also puts out quick Basic one point zero

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<v Speaker 2>almost the same, No, not all, not at all the same.

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<v Speaker 2>But if it's on a three hundred and sixty K

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<v Speaker 2>five and a quarter inch floppy, so.

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<v Speaker 1>I down small pick Basic one point Oh yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't think it did.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I did from a from a bulletin board, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, there was bbs is then.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Most people remember version two because it's the one who

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<v Speaker 2>had the id unit. I mentioned symbolics dot comedy in

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<v Speaker 2>the first domain registered also in networking land NSF net

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<v Speaker 2>that's the National Science Foundation. Net starts up using ecipip

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<v Speaker 2>to connect a bunch of supercomputing centers together Princeton, Pittsburgh,

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<v Speaker 2>University of California, San Diego, University of Illinois, a Berta,

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<v Speaker 2>Champaigne and Cornell. As soon as then they use TCPIP,

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<v Speaker 2>which kind of a big deal new network at major

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<v Speaker 2>universities all TCPIP. Within a few years, dozens of more

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<v Speaker 2>educational networks are tied on to that as well. This

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<v Speaker 2>is also around the time that ARPAET starts to break up.

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<v Speaker 2>Parts of it will go to NSF net and other

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<v Speaker 2>parts will go over to the military side to mill net.

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<v Speaker 2>But you now have the foundation of what's going to

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<v Speaker 2>become the Internet. In nineteen eighty five, very cool, Intel

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<v Speaker 2>puts out the eighty three eighty six, the first full

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<v Speaker 2>thirty two bit processor made by Intel. The three eighty

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<v Speaker 2>six will lead to new machines, the three eighty six. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>Michael Dell, in his his dorm room in university starts

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<v Speaker 2>a company called PC's Unlimited and he makes a Turbo

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<v Speaker 2>PC compatible PC Compatible for seven ninety five, and they'll

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<v Speaker 2>eventually become del It's also the year that the Amiga

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<v Speaker 2>one thousand is released.

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<v Speaker 1>Ah, very cool. I remember playing that thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, twelve ninety five without a monitor and the inside

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<v Speaker 2>of the case had the designer signatures on it, including

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<v Speaker 2>the pawprint of j Minor's dog. Mitchie and Natari releases

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<v Speaker 2>their Atari st as the competitor, the amigaan in the

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<v Speaker 2>same year. Yeah, and it has a gem based guy

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<v Speaker 2>in it as well. I used plenty of both. And

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<v Speaker 2>last but not least, the new manifestow being GANU is

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<v Speaker 2>not unix by Richard Stalman, the whole idea of software

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<v Speaker 2>free software, but if you're going to use it or

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<v Speaker 2>contribute to it, you contribute back. A new manifesto is

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<v Speaker 2>sort of the foundation of modern open source thinking for

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<v Speaker 2>Richard Stalman. Again, lots more to that story, but that's

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<v Speaker 2>the foundation of it. And that's what I got when

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about nineteen eighty five. Oh my god, I

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<v Speaker 2>told you it was a big list. She's he's been

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<v Speaker 2>very patient, hanging out. I apologize.

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<v Speaker 1>I apologize. Okay, Well let's go on to better know

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<v Speaker 1>framework roll.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, man, what do you got?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? This is another creation from one Simon crop Ah.

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<v Speaker 2>Simon.

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<v Speaker 1>He's such a genius he and he's very prolific.

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<v Speaker 2>He is too.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know what Mermaid is, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't that the sort of a woman not really a woman,

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<v Speaker 2>might have been a dougong.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of half fish half no. No. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>a JavaScript tool that came out in twenty fourteen. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>to create I guess you would call them flow charts,

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<v Speaker 1>but organizational charts.

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<v Speaker 2>And relationship charts. I presume his data relationship charts. Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So Simon basically created a tool that you send it

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<v Speaker 1>a database connection string and it generates a chart of

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<v Speaker 1>the nice entire database. That's crazy. Yeah, take a look

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<v Speaker 1>at it. I mean it's beautiful. Mermaid is beautiful, by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, it's just uh, it's just great. But you

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<v Speaker 1>know this will take a sequel server database or Enny

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<v Speaker 1>framework core model h and just generate beautiful UI.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, awesome, dude, that's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And Simon Simon, he posted in the general channel

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<v Speaker 1>of our slack of apppnax slack and he goes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I did this.

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<v Speaker 2>I did a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I did a thing. Yeah. It's like, oh, of course

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<v Speaker 1>you did.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course he did. He does things.

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<v Speaker 1>Spend some time with your wife, Simon.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just signs about marriage breaking down. Is that what

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? He is that or all the kids have flown

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<v Speaker 1>the coop and he doesn't have anybody to right, All right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>cool stuff, man, Well that's what I got Richard, who's

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<v Speaker 1>talking to us?

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<v Speaker 2>Grady comment of the show twelve sixty seven. I know

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about about employment, and it made

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<v Speaker 2>me go back and look at when we talked about

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<v Speaker 2>deployment mechanisms and continuous integration and stuff a lot, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a while ago. This is a comment from Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 2>Pillermo show called Azure Continuous Delivery. It's from twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And as also, we did a bunch of shows on

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<v Speaker 2>Octopus deployments, so we're like, we just haven't talked about

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<v Speaker 2>deployment much lately now. This particular comment, and again its

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<v Speaker 2>a few years ago, has comes from Keith Williams where

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<v Speaker 2>he says, great show. It's good to hear that people

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<v Speaker 2>having success with Team City and Octopus deploy that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about at that time. It's also refreshing to

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<v Speaker 2>hear someone downplay the thirty four releases per day type stories.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember that was a thing. We were so excited about

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<v Speaker 2>your deploy all the time, and now we just don't

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<v Speaker 2>ever talk about that. Yeah, he does go out to say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we do continue to deploy to our test

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<v Speaker 2>site and that can get up to tenploymes a day.

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<v Speaker 2>But come on, I know, but a nitpick small organizations

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<v Speaker 2>do and need the custom software from time to time.

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<v Speaker 2>My first yeah gets supported the custom SEQL server back

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<v Speaker 2>end with Microsoft Access front end. Ouch held records of

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<v Speaker 2>a best dose within customer properties for a twenty person company.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>We manage the continuous delivery by place in the ADP

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<v Speaker 2>pile into a shared folder and writing a log on

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<v Speaker 2>script and VBA to copy it to each user's desktop

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<v Speaker 2>during log it. So in your version was just to

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<v Speaker 2>log out, log into update clever. This is back in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five, to the best of my knowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>still going to this day because old software never dies.

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<v Speaker 2>Friend never ever dies. But true enough, well some of

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<v Speaker 2>it should, Yeah, but no, not wrong and probably tricky

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<v Speaker 2>to make work on a phone. But but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he makes a valid point. A company specializing with dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with his best dose and they need a particular day store.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder if now they'd have an M three sixty

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<v Speaker 2>five account so they'd be doing it as a power app.

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<v Speaker 2>Who knows it is interesting to think you know a storm.

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<v Speaker 2>But Keith, thank you so much for your commented. A

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<v Speaker 2>copy of music cobi is on its way to you,

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00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:54.559
<v Speaker 2>and if you'd like a copy of music cobuy write

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<v Speaker 2>a comment on the website at don at Rocks dot

368
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:58.119
<v Speaker 2>com or on the facebooks. We publish every show there,

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<v Speaker 2>and if you comment there when I read in the show,

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<v Speaker 2>id your copy?

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00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Music? Go Music to Code by twenty two tracks of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five minute goodness music that will help you stay

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<v Speaker 1>in a state of flow while you're writing code. Track

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00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:12.880
<v Speaker 1>twenty three. I didn't get it out for Christmas, but

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00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.279
<v Speaker 1>it's coming very soon. All right, cool, and you can

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00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.240
<v Speaker 1>get the entire collection in MP three, flak or wave

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00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.480
<v Speaker 1>formats at music to Code by dot net. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>let's bring on Smoothly Anglard. We first met years and

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<v Speaker 1>years ago in New York City. I can't remember the event.

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<v Speaker 1>Richard probably does.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, man, that's a long time ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so it was a long time ago.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it was the road trip.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, okay, yeah, all right, So let me read his

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<v Speaker 1>bio cutting his programming chops on the dot net two

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<v Speaker 1>o betas in two thousand and five. Smoothly Anglard grew

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<v Speaker 1>to love developing software. He started out using vb net,

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<v Speaker 1>but moved to C sharp quickly and never looked back. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of his work is in C sharp Smoothly has

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<v Speaker 1>professional experience with cross platform development and Java c plus plus,

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<v Speaker 1>web development and JavaScript noe JS, and database development with

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<v Speaker 1>Microsoft seql server, Postcress SQL and my sqel, and data

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<v Speaker 1>integration services using different transport protocols like Jason GeoJSON XML

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<v Speaker 1>and Google protocol buffers. Welcome, Schmooley, Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>I have to say it sounds a lot nicer when

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<v Speaker 3>you're reading my description.

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<v Speaker 1>Well I had to third personize it. But that's that

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<v Speaker 1>comes with a job, you know's it.

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<v Speaker 2>Aren't you a blue badge Smoothly.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, I am. That's a relatively recent thing.

401
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<v Speaker 2>Oh gratulations.

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00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Well it feels recent. It's now been, dear God, nearly

403
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.039
<v Speaker 3>five years. I will be five years in April. Wow wow,

404
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:48.240
<v Speaker 3>it feels like yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow wow. That's great. So what are you working on?

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00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.079
<v Speaker 3>I work on the Microsoft Store to clarify the app

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<v Speaker 3>on your computer. Not the lovely website where you buy

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<v Speaker 3>surface computers.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, yeah, it's the software store.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, And you're one of the few people who when

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<v Speaker 3>I tell that, they don't say, oh, you have an

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<v Speaker 3>app store, Yes, we have an app store.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean it used to be called the

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<v Speaker 2>Windows Store. But I don't think you call it that anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>right is now? Is it the Microsoft Store?

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<v Speaker 1>Now?

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<v Speaker 3>It is the Microsoft Store? Right if it makes you

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<v Speaker 3>feel better. I have been in many meetings where high

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<v Speaker 3>up executives still call it the Windows Store.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice. Yeah, but I mean that really was started around

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<v Speaker 2>the Windows eight time frame, right, Like, that's that's when

422
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.160
<v Speaker 2>we needed a store because they were going after the

423
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>tablet market.

424
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.400
<v Speaker 3>That was the you had your eight, you had win

425
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:39.880
<v Speaker 3>on those RT right store or nothing?

426
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there was no other way to load stuff onto

427
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:42.640
<v Speaker 2>an RT device.

428
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

429
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.000
<v Speaker 3>And there are parts of the code base that are

430
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.680
<v Speaker 3>from back then. You look at them and you're like,

431
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.720
<v Speaker 3>why does this be? Why is the code? Oh right,

432
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.960
<v Speaker 3>it's that old. Okay, now this makes sense now it's.

433
00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:55.880
<v Speaker 2>From two thousand and eight. Yeah, oh man.

434
00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Unfortunately, because of versioning system changes, we don't actually have

435
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:03.680
<v Speaker 3>the history all that way, all the way back unfortunately.

436
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:07.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh sure, we only have the history for I think

437
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:09.839
<v Speaker 3>it goes maybe a year before I joined, so it's

438
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:12.119
<v Speaker 3>not very far back. We can actually go so a

439
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.480
<v Speaker 3>lot of time decisions we literally have no idea anymore.

440
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 3>It's like, why was it done this way?

441
00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know Is that all in GitHub? Now? Is

442
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.079
<v Speaker 2>that why they migrated the GitHub and the history was lost? Oh?

443
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.559
<v Speaker 3>I wish that was it. No, it was it was

444
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.359
<v Speaker 3>a case of changing teams and they didn't know how

445
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:30.599
<v Speaker 3>to apparently, I guess they didn't understand how to move

446
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:32.799
<v Speaker 3>things properly with gets. So the history we just have

447
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:35.079
<v Speaker 3>a giant initial commit effectively.

448
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, but.

449
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.759
<v Speaker 3>No, we're in We're in Azure DevOps.

450
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:43.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, So you know a few things about distributing

451
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Windows applications. It looks like you, I know, well, it

452
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:50.440
<v Speaker 1>looks like you've been doing it a long time, you know,

453
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:51.960
<v Speaker 1>with various technologies.

454
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is kind of my day job now at

455
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.200
<v Speaker 3>this point. But I've done them all. I've done I've

456
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.839
<v Speaker 3>used Wix. God have a love hate with that. Yeah,

457
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.960
<v Speaker 3>but now we m that's our lovely MSI. But now

458
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.039
<v Speaker 3>we have MSIX much nicer, yes, in my opinion at least,

459
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.720
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, no, we want Distributing apps is hard. We've

460
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:14.440
<v Speaker 3>all done it. It's how do I get my app

461
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.960
<v Speaker 3>out to a bajillion people? Used to be Floppyes, then

462
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:23.240
<v Speaker 3>it was CDs. Then you had downloading it, you had click.

463
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Once we had we had our silver light apps where oh,

464
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:30.279
<v Speaker 3>just go to this website you don't even enough to

465
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:33.920
<v Speaker 3>install anything. Yeah, and now we have app stores. Mostly

466
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.799
<v Speaker 3>everyone has their app store. That's how we're doing on

467
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:37.240
<v Speaker 3>the phone.

468
00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 2>Should we be distributing regular apps via app store?

469
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:41.319
<v Speaker 1>Like?

470
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:43.440
<v Speaker 2>Is that advantageous in any way?

471
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Generally?

472
00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:44.319
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

473
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:46.599
<v Speaker 3>I mean then you don't have to deal with hosting,

474
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.440
<v Speaker 3>although most apps you're not dealing with that anyways. Most

475
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.799
<v Speaker 3>apps nowadays, if you're not in an app store, you're

476
00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:55.640
<v Speaker 3>probably hosting an open source app on GitHub, so they're

477
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:59.480
<v Speaker 3>doing the releases for you. But if you're doing that,

478
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:02.119
<v Speaker 3>that means you have to you have to now deal

479
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.079
<v Speaker 3>with telling people where to go hope they find your app.

480
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.799
<v Speaker 3>And then there's always the fun of how do I

481
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 3>update it right? And that is one of the big

482
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.000
<v Speaker 3>things app stores give you is that it's not only

483
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.400
<v Speaker 3>how do I get it, but it's how do.

484
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I update it right? It's one thing if I build.

485
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.160
<v Speaker 3>An app and it's distributed on get ub I now

486
00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 3>have to find an updater. And yes, there are bajillion

487
00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:24.680
<v Speaker 3>ways to do it. I've built some of my own

488
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.200
<v Speaker 3>over the years, but how do I deal with updates?

489
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:30.519
<v Speaker 3>How do I check for them where they host it.

490
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 3>How do I I have to do version checks and

491
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.559
<v Speaker 3>all that. I don't have to if it's in the store,

492
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.200
<v Speaker 3>I just give them my new version of my app.

493
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 3>Updating is the problem of the store. How they download it?

494
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Do they do deltas do so it's more efficient? Do

495
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:46.640
<v Speaker 3>they do it? How do they check for it? That's

496
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.240
<v Speaker 3>not my headache. I just now have to worry about

497
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:51.000
<v Speaker 3>how do I build my app, not how do I

498
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:52.200
<v Speaker 3>install it and update it?

499
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Right?

500
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.640
<v Speaker 1>This is one of the things that Mac users listen

501
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:58.359
<v Speaker 1>to conversations like this and like, what are you talking about?

502
00:24:58.400 --> 00:24:59.799
<v Speaker 1>You know, I just go and I see there's a

503
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:03.319
<v Speaker 1>new version, and I download it because it's you know,

504
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:08.359
<v Speaker 1>it's built into the platform. And whereas the Microsoft Store

505
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.319
<v Speaker 1>is kind of an option for people who've been doing it,

506
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, in all these kind of janky ways for

507
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:15.119
<v Speaker 1>over the years.

508
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's a bajillion ways. And it should be noted

509
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.319
<v Speaker 3>that going into the store doesn't mean we take over updates.

510
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:23.279
<v Speaker 3>That doesn't need to be how we do it. That

511
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.680
<v Speaker 3>is the golden path. We'll provide everything for you, but

512
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.400
<v Speaker 3>you have the option of just giving us your exc

513
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:31.880
<v Speaker 3>You have an exc it installs your app. You can

514
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.519
<v Speaker 3>submit that to us and we will now distribute that

515
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.799
<v Speaker 3>updating is now on you. That installer is now on you.

516
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:39.440
<v Speaker 3>But now we're just a distution channel.

517
00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 1>So there isn't anything where you could go to like

518
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 1>Programs and Features and control panel. Look at all your

519
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 1>apps and see the ones that need updating. Right click

520
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.319
<v Speaker 1>and update right I mean.

521
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.519
<v Speaker 3>Right now, not in settings, but if you in the

522
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:54.319
<v Speaker 3>store we did. We have somewhat recently added the fact

523
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:57.599
<v Speaker 3>that we will show updates for those apps that aren't

524
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 3>managed by us if we can. Sometimes we do know,

525
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.039
<v Speaker 3>sometimes we don't. It's up to the apps how well

526
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:08.960
<v Speaker 3>their installers work. A somewhat funny example recently was a

527
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:11.839
<v Speaker 3>discord they're now in the store, but we don't handle

528
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.759
<v Speaker 3>their updates. They had a bug where they would not

529
00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:19.720
<v Speaker 3>correctly update the version information in Windows when they updated.

530
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, an update bug.

531
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 3>We would perpetually think there was an update, but there

532
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:27.920
<v Speaker 3>wasn't one, and we didn't know because we're looking at

533
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:30.680
<v Speaker 3>the version installed, the latest version. Oh there's an update,

534
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:33.799
<v Speaker 3>we should give it to you. So they recently got

535
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.799
<v Speaker 3>that in they got the We were able to get

536
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:37.440
<v Speaker 3>them to squeeze that in before the new year, so

537
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.039
<v Speaker 3>most people should now have that update. But now they

538
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.599
<v Speaker 3>correctly update that information and we correctly don't think there's

539
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:46.839
<v Speaker 3>an update. So that is the downside they had to build.

540
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:49.920
<v Speaker 3>They've built an update, it had bugs, and that's on

541
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.599
<v Speaker 3>them instead of our update. Now, yes, our updater could

542
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.039
<v Speaker 3>have bugs, but it's not on.

543
00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Speaker 2>You, right, yeah, yeah, you know that the whole purpose

544
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.240
<v Speaker 2>of the cloud to have somebody new to blame.

545
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly, And more importantly, you pay to get blame

546
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:06.960
<v Speaker 3>them blamed.

547
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I give you money. Now I get to blame

548
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:16.160
<v Speaker 2>you for style. Yes, oh man, I mean the classic

549
00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.880
<v Speaker 2>argument here is this is why we do web apps

550
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 2>because zero deployment, like deployment has always been a challenge.

551
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.119
<v Speaker 2>It's just it's good to get into. You know, what's

552
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty sixth way that deploy an app if

553
00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 2>you're going to build a client side app.

554
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:35.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it varies, and web apps are great, but

555
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:36.599
<v Speaker 3>you can still put them in the store. The store

556
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.400
<v Speaker 3>has a lot of web apps from straight up PWAs

557
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.880
<v Speaker 3>you can find in the store, as well as apps

558
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.240
<v Speaker 3>that are web apps but they're locally hosted, like say discord.

559
00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:48.200
<v Speaker 3>We all know they wrote it. It's a web app,

560
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.039
<v Speaker 3>but they're running an electron they're not dealing one in

561
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 3>the store. Electrons in the store. Slack is in the store,

562
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 3>and Slack is using our updator, so you can be

563
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.680
<v Speaker 3>an electron app and use our updater. Those are not

564
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 3>mutually exclusively, so Slacks in the store, they're in updated

565
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.680
<v Speaker 3>PWA's that are in the store would be Facebook is

566
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 3>in the Facebook and I'm blanking on the other one.

567
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.880
<v Speaker 3>I was going to use us my example now, but

568
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:15.599
<v Speaker 3>they're in the.

569
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.319
<v Speaker 2>Store WhatsApps of PWA. But yeah, there's a whole.

570
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Bunch WhatsApp actually is in a PWA. Okay, well, not

571
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 3>a conventional PWI. They are an interesting case. Facebook Messenger

572
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:31.680
<v Speaker 3>recently just got fortunately they got rid of it. I

573
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.880
<v Speaker 3>can't think of the word brain, but they were actually

574
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.720
<v Speaker 3>an interesting case of the PWA you installed from the

575
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.759
<v Speaker 3>store and the PWA you would installed from the web

576
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:42.480
<v Speaker 3>we're in't the same thing. Actually, when you installed it

577
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:46.359
<v Speaker 3>from the store, they installed a notification process in the

578
00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:50.799
<v Speaker 3>background that was native code, so there was actually a difference.

579
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:52.759
<v Speaker 3>And luckily enough, the icons were also different, so you

580
00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.400
<v Speaker 3>could slightly tell which one you had, but you will

581
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.480
<v Speaker 3>find PWA's in the store. And the advantage there is

582
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.720
<v Speaker 3>find a searchability. When you search in the store, you'll

583
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:06.160
<v Speaker 3>find them. That's one of the advantages also you get

584
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.359
<v Speaker 3>from even if you don't use our update, if you're

585
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.119
<v Speaker 3>in the store, people will search for them. We can

586
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.000
<v Speaker 3>handle those things, and we integrate with many parts of Windows.

587
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.039
<v Speaker 3>You're typing into the search and start, we will suggest

588
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.839
<v Speaker 3>apps from us. A feature we're currently experimenting with and

589
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 3>I think some insiders have now is the open with dialogue.

590
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.799
<v Speaker 3>Instead of us just showing you, hey, these are applications

591
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.400
<v Speaker 3>that are installed on your system, we will actually show you,

592
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 3>like the top three apps that can handle that file format,

593
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.480
<v Speaker 3>even if you don't have them installed.

594
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, So just the open width has been improved exactly.

595
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.519
<v Speaker 3>And if you're not in the store, we can't show

596
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:42.599
<v Speaker 3>that information about you.

597
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 2>It's a great sales channel.

598
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:48.440
<v Speaker 3>So even if you are APWA and sure you don't

599
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.960
<v Speaker 3>need to go through us, you're not getting our update

600
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.079
<v Speaker 3>advantages and all that. But now you have the ability

601
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:56.279
<v Speaker 3>to say, hey, I can open this file format, do

602
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.119
<v Speaker 3>you want to use it? And now you can be

603
00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:58.799
<v Speaker 3>installed there.

604
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>All right, this seems like good place to take a break,

605
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.960
<v Speaker 1>so we'll take a quick break for some important messages

606
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.240
<v Speaker 1>when we come back. I got some questions about the updator,

607
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>so stick around and we're back. It's dot net Rocks.

608
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:16.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm Carl Franklin. That's my buddy Richard Campbell. Hey, and

609
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:20.599
<v Speaker 1>that's our old friend Schmoui Angelard. We're talking about distributing

610
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Windows apps, and you mentioned a couple of times they're

611
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:27.599
<v Speaker 1>using our updator. They're not using our updator yep. So

612
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:30.839
<v Speaker 1>if I have an application that I want to distribute

613
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:36.559
<v Speaker 1>through the through the Microsoft Store, the Microsoft Store, right, yeah, yep.

614
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 1>And I wanted to be helpful with updates, what does

615
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:41.839
<v Speaker 1>that do for me? Exactly?

616
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.839
<v Speaker 3>The updater having us do the updates. Mainly, the big

617
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.839
<v Speaker 3>thing is that you don't deal with them yourself. It's

618
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.319
<v Speaker 3>our CDN, so you don't have to worry about how

619
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:54.799
<v Speaker 3>you're distributing it. We have the up checking logic, Hey,

620
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.920
<v Speaker 3>is there an update? Is there not an update? We

621
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 3>handle making sure that you don't have to worry about

622
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:04.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh so someone's hitting my update server pajillion times. And

623
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:06.039
<v Speaker 3>we will also do delta updates for you.

624
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.559
<v Speaker 1>But how does that manifest itself? To the user, like

625
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.240
<v Speaker 1>does the user when they run my program, does a

626
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:14.119
<v Speaker 1>dialogue box pop up and say there's a new version available,

627
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:15.039
<v Speaker 1>do you want to download it now?

628
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.559
<v Speaker 3>Because that's that is actually up to the app we

629
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.400
<v Speaker 3>in the background. By default, we will be updating your

630
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.720
<v Speaker 3>apps once we check once a day. By default, the

631
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.000
<v Speaker 3>user can click the check for updates as much as

632
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:28.160
<v Speaker 3>they like. But apps have control over if they want

633
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 3>to force an update. For example, what's app does that?

634
00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:33.759
<v Speaker 3>They will do a check and if your version is

635
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:35.759
<v Speaker 3>two out of date, they will force you to update.

636
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.880
<v Speaker 3>There are some apps that I know will do a

637
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 3>check and then that you They let you decide.

638
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:43.960
<v Speaker 1>So is there an RSS feed or something like that

639
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:44.839
<v Speaker 1>that we subscribe to?

640
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:49.279
<v Speaker 3>So there's an API. We have the store APIs on Windows.

641
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.519
<v Speaker 3>There win our tapis, so you can use them from

642
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.559
<v Speaker 3>any app and they let you say check is there

643
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.319
<v Speaker 3>an update? You can then pop up a dialogue about it.

644
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.200
<v Speaker 3>You can force the update. You can even say hey down,

645
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.799
<v Speaker 3>download it, but only update it once the user restarts me.

646
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, so, and all the logic of you know, remind

647
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.960
<v Speaker 1>me in three days, five days whatever. You could do

648
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.720
<v Speaker 1>all that yourself.

649
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, those kind of things so we don't as

650
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.400
<v Speaker 3>we don't do the reminding. That's up to you, but

651
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:18.960
<v Speaker 3>we give you that power. You have the ability to

652
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.519
<v Speaker 3>do that, and then we'll update you if your app

653
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.119
<v Speaker 3>is run. If the app is running, we won't force updated.

654
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:29.279
<v Speaker 3>Apps can say we are allowed to, but the we won't.

655
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:32.880
<v Speaker 3>So that way you don't lose your important context or

656
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.759
<v Speaker 3>whatever it is you're doing.

657
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Right.

658
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.119
<v Speaker 3>Obviously, a user can always force it if they want to.

659
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Users have choice in the end of the day. There, yeah,

660
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.880
<v Speaker 3>and as do companies. We have GPO policy. So a

661
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.440
<v Speaker 3>company wants to say, hey, don't update these apps. I

662
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.640
<v Speaker 3>want them at whatever version they're at, they're stuck there.

663
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Now.

664
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:51.880
<v Speaker 3>We have GPO policies and we are working on building

665
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.160
<v Speaker 3>more over time. So companies aren't at the mercy.

666
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:58.559
<v Speaker 2>So you are able within the store to put your

667
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:03.079
<v Speaker 2>internal company app that are only available to your company employees.

668
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 3>Unfortunately, no, no, that isn't on us anymore. That's the

669
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.319
<v Speaker 3>Store for business. We had that for a while.

670
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Well wait before you answer that question, what's a GPO policy?

671
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:11.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

672
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:16.160
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, ah, yes, no group policy object.

673
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.720
<v Speaker 2>I think group policy objects. Yeah okay, yeah, my memory

674
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:20.039
<v Speaker 2>is good.

675
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.440
<v Speaker 1>So these are Windows policies basically at the enterprise level.

676
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:27.000
<v Speaker 3>Yep. These are We're mostly used to hearing the term

677
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.480
<v Speaker 3>MDM or mobile device management now and people think of

678
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.680
<v Speaker 3>that for their mobile devices. Windows does do that, but

679
00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 3>from historical perspective, we call them group policy objects. Yeah,

680
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:40.039
<v Speaker 3>and they're the way you can set it. So from

681
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 3>a company's perspective, they have a giant hammer. They can

682
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.960
<v Speaker 3>just literally say you can't run the store. So if

683
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:48.000
<v Speaker 3>a user tries to launch it, we'll give them a

684
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 3>nice dialogue and says, hey, we're sorry your company blocked us.

685
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.920
<v Speaker 3>We'd obviously love if they didn't do that, but they

686
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:59.039
<v Speaker 3>do have the giant banhammer. They can also control our

687
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.960
<v Speaker 3>auto updating, and they can control what apps you can install.

688
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:05.960
<v Speaker 3>So even if we'd love you to not hammer band

689
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:09.719
<v Speaker 3>the entire store, but you can still limit what apps

690
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:11.719
<v Speaker 3>the user can and can't install, and we will check

691
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.679
<v Speaker 3>that information before we install apps.

692
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:17.199
<v Speaker 2>This has been a run ass topic routinely, but it's like, okay,

693
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.039
<v Speaker 2>we only allow these versions of Adobe Reader, and so

694
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I can push out a policy to any of my

695
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:25.800
<v Speaker 2>company machines that says you can go to the store

696
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and get Adobe Reader, but only these versions.

697
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.519
<v Speaker 3>That's a bit more complicated there, because we have the

698
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.639
<v Speaker 3>concept of if it's a thing like oh, they have

699
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 3>different products for each version, so twenty twenty five and

700
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.840
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty four different products. You can do that, but

701
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:42.440
<v Speaker 3>right now we don't have the ability for you to

702
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.400
<v Speaker 3>say only this product, but only this particular version. I

703
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:49.360
<v Speaker 3>don't think. I admittedly, as I say it, I'm part

704
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:51.960
<v Speaker 3>of my brain is saying no, you can. But I'm

705
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 3>not confident.

706
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure I've done a show on that, truly,

707
00:34:54.920 --> 00:35:00.679
<v Speaker 2>But I'm with you the I mean, you really see

708
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.559
<v Speaker 2>there's different categories here, right there's I have an app

709
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 2>I want to sell. I put it on the store

710
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.559
<v Speaker 2>because it gives you marketing and a sales engine like

711
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:09.960
<v Speaker 2>you will cut me a check.

712
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:13.480
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, we also do that. We to do that,

713
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:16.119
<v Speaker 3>you have to use our installer. We don't do that

714
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:18.760
<v Speaker 3>if you don't, and that's for licensing reasons, because if

715
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:22.119
<v Speaker 3>you're not using our installer, we can't control licensing concepts,

716
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:24.599
<v Speaker 3>which are required obviously if you buy it. But if

717
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.519
<v Speaker 3>you buy it through us, then it's installed. You can

718
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:31.880
<v Speaker 3>have it on up to installed onto ten devices actively

719
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.719
<v Speaker 3>at once. So it's not that you get it. You

720
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.239
<v Speaker 3>can have it on your laptop. You can have it

721
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.039
<v Speaker 3>on your desktop. You can have it on your Xbox,

722
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.400
<v Speaker 3>which is one of those depending on how you build

723
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.519
<v Speaker 3>your app. You can distribute it even on an Xbox

724
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:49.199
<v Speaker 3>if you're somehow still running a Windows phone. Even be

725
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:55.280
<v Speaker 3>my guest, it seems unlikely the lemetary logs, my friend

726
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.159
<v Speaker 3>I have a man. Admittedly, all those are people who

727
00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:02.239
<v Speaker 3>are running whin have hacked Windows on ARM onto their phones.

728
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:04.679
<v Speaker 3>I haven't seen an actual Windows phone in a while,

729
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.360
<v Speaker 3>but I have seen in our logs the store is

730
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.000
<v Speaker 3>running on a Lumia nine point fifty, and I just

731
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:10.519
<v Speaker 3>love that.

732
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:12.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, someone is doing it.

733
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:13.039
<v Speaker 1>That's cool.

734
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:15.079
<v Speaker 2>I've got mine in my in a drawer somewhere. I'm

735
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 2>sure it doesn't hold a charge anymore. It's just a

736
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:18.159
<v Speaker 2>shrine in my sadness.

737
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:20.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, no, that's assuming the battery hasn't expanded on

738
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:21.239
<v Speaker 3>you yet.

739
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, it has set fire to the building. So

740
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 2>then there, I mean, there's the I want to be

741
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.840
<v Speaker 2>paid for my app put it in the store. Then

742
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.159
<v Speaker 2>there's the I want to give away my app for free, yep,

743
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.679
<v Speaker 2>handle my distribution and my updates yep.

744
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.199
<v Speaker 3>So you can do both those. We handle that and

745
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.599
<v Speaker 3>then either way, as you said, you get the marketing,

746
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.639
<v Speaker 3>you get the open with experience, and as we expand

747
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.719
<v Speaker 3>more things, you'll get those. It also allows for from

748
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.239
<v Speaker 3>the enterprise perspective you have in tune. In Tune has

749
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.599
<v Speaker 3>access to our catalog. Yeah, so if you're assumed generally

750
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:56.480
<v Speaker 3>that's only for free app stuff, paid apps get but

751
00:36:56.599 --> 00:37:00.000
<v Speaker 3>more complicated there. But your app now can be automatic

752
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.719
<v Speaker 3>installed on people's machines and then you got it there.

753
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.519
<v Speaker 3>So you've got all that. And then you also have

754
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.519
<v Speaker 3>if you're not using in tune, you also have win get,

755
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.239
<v Speaker 3>so command line access. Wind Get can install all our

756
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 3>free apps, so you get a massive amount of development ease.

757
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.519
<v Speaker 3>People can just win get has their configuration files where

758
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.760
<v Speaker 3>they just like configure your repo for you. Well, that

759
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 3>can include installing store apps. So you want to get

760
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.360
<v Speaker 3>Python from the store, be my guest. You want to

761
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.639
<v Speaker 3>get visual studio, it's in the store, visual studio code

762
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.000
<v Speaker 3>it's in the store, and all these things you can

763
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:40.679
<v Speaker 3>just quickly easily install and you find it. It's nice

764
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.119
<v Speaker 3>and easy like that, and we're constantly adding apps.

765
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wonder if it's a conversation that devs need

766
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.920
<v Speaker 2>to have with their it as well about hey, if

767
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.840
<v Speaker 2>you want me to employ this through the store, because

768
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.719
<v Speaker 2>always the question is do I want this app publicly visible? Ogain?

769
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:00.199
<v Speaker 3>Can I control who can see it? You have some

770
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.800
<v Speaker 3>level of control right now. The control is effect. It's

771
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of more like how you would think of

772
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.280
<v Speaker 3>like test flight on iOS, where you can give a

773
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 3>bunch of msas Microsoft accounts and we will only allow

774
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.679
<v Speaker 3>these people to get the app. So if so, you

775
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:18.880
<v Speaker 3>can kind of do that. Obviously in a tiny shop

776
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:22.719
<v Speaker 3>that wouldn't be so bad. Giant corporation not so good.

777
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.000
<v Speaker 3>That's where you start looking at the intune side of things.

778
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.000
<v Speaker 3>But admittedly, the store right now is public only. You're

779
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.400
<v Speaker 3>either in the catalog or you're not. We don't have

780
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.320
<v Speaker 3>the idea of a hidden catalog. The best you could

781
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 3>do is have an app that's not listed, meaning you

782
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:40.320
<v Speaker 3>have to know it's there to find it kind of thing.

783
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.800
<v Speaker 2>So you can do that. But that's security by obscurity,

784
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:46.119
<v Speaker 2>that's right, That's exactly.

785
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:49.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So it will depends on what it is. If

786
00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:50.840
<v Speaker 3>it's an app. We there are apps in the store

787
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:53.199
<v Speaker 3>where it's like it's obscurity. Plus you need to like

788
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:56.199
<v Speaker 3>log in, so it's like the app is useless to them,

789
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:57.719
<v Speaker 3>to somebody ran with it.

790
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it seems to me that the store is really

791
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.840
<v Speaker 1>beneficial for those who want to distribute a publicly available application.

792
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.519
<v Speaker 3>Yes, that is our primary focus.

793
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:12.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because the stuff you're talking about with updates and everything, like,

794
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.119
<v Speaker 1>we could do that stuff. I mean, you know, it's

795
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:19.280
<v Speaker 1>just looking at a manifest file somewhere, you know, and

796
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:20.800
<v Speaker 1>a quick API for it.

797
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:22.920
<v Speaker 3>But then you have we can do it, but then

798
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:24.599
<v Speaker 3>you have to have the logic to check. And then

799
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:26.519
<v Speaker 3>you have to deal with if your app is huge,

800
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.039
<v Speaker 3>now you're downloading the entire thing again, do Delta updates

801
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:31.920
<v Speaker 3>for you. We will calculate the difference.

802
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:34.679
<v Speaker 2>And then you have to deal with remote workers. Like

803
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.159
<v Speaker 2>it's one thing to set up a file on an

804
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.320
<v Speaker 2>internal server and everybody in the office gets a new version.

805
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.079
<v Speaker 2>It's another thing when you have a bunch of remote workers.

806
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Now it's got to be through the cloud, or it's

807
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.760
<v Speaker 2>got to be through a VPN. Having help you right, like, yeah,

808
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:49.280
<v Speaker 2>hevn help you. This is the I need you all

809
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>the log into the VPN to get a new version

810
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.960
<v Speaker 2>of the app. And just watch your VPN crow yeah, right,

811
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:55.559
<v Speaker 2>your multi gigabyte file.

812
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:01.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking of all the commercial Windows apps that I use.

813
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Most of them are hosted on their own branded website

814
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and you download them and then they should they phone

815
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:10.360
<v Speaker 1>home and check for updates and tell you when you've

816
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.599
<v Speaker 1>got a new version.

817
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Because they're a giant corporation, right exactly. When you're Adobe,

818
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.360
<v Speaker 3>sure you have that reach, right, but you're a developer,

819
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:21.480
<v Speaker 3>even as medium sized developer team may not have that reach.

820
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.480
<v Speaker 3>We have CDN servers all over the world.

821
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Which means yep, that's a benefit, and.

822
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:29.840
<v Speaker 3>We're hosting it. It's our CDN. If you're using our installer,

823
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:33.400
<v Speaker 3>at least, it's our CDN, which means you're going through

824
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 3>our system. And it's the same CDN we use for

825
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.719
<v Speaker 3>other things like say Windows updates. So unless you're in

826
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:41.639
<v Speaker 3>a place where they're blocking Windows update, our CDN will

827
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:42.119
<v Speaker 3>get through.

828
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.880
<v Speaker 1>And if you are go somewhere else, come on, yeah,

829
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.400
<v Speaker 1>we would block Windows updates.

830
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.719
<v Speaker 3>It's like, uh, that's Richard's territory, I believe.

831
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:53.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I mean he's he's with me, I'm sure.

832
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:58.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean updates provide security, you know, in the in

833
00:40:58.079 --> 00:40:59.159
<v Speaker 1>the big shops too.

834
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.599
<v Speaker 2>A lot of shops, like updates in the past have

835
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:06.000
<v Speaker 2>been blocked. Do you know that behavior is really you

836
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:07.760
<v Speaker 2>know we now we talk about the bigger risk here

837
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:10.440
<v Speaker 2>is on patch servers than it is bad updates. Yeah,

838
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and so you know you're better off to get the

839
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>update as quickly as possible to deal with the effects,

840
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.000
<v Speaker 2>and you are to hold the update, find out you

841
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 2>had a patch that could have fixed the problem, and

842
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:21.840
<v Speaker 2>then you've got the problem because you didn't have time

843
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.679
<v Speaker 2>to test the update.

844
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:26.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, so it's not as big a thing anymore. Yeah,

845
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.480
<v Speaker 3>so we've got that, you've got our reach. You don't

846
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.480
<v Speaker 3>have to deal with that. But if you are a

847
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:36.159
<v Speaker 3>giant corporation like Adobe, Acrobat Reader is in the store

848
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.559
<v Speaker 3>and they're not using our installer, but they get our reach,

849
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.360
<v Speaker 3>and then you have other features like we recently rolled

850
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:44.960
<v Speaker 3>out the multi installer where a person can have a

851
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 3>bunch of different apps and click install in one go.

852
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.960
<v Speaker 3>So Adobe now is once again part of that. It's

853
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.679
<v Speaker 3>as Richard said, it's the marketing angle.

854
00:41:53.079 --> 00:41:55.199
<v Speaker 2>I usually do that with a wind gat script, but

855
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:57.239
<v Speaker 2>you're telling me I can just do the store now.

856
00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:00.960
<v Speaker 3>We have a UI for it. It's not as controlled, right,

857
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:05.079
<v Speaker 3>now it's experimental rolling it out. Uh, it has its limits,

858
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.280
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, we are giving you the ability to install

859
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 3>multiple apps at one go.

860
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.320
<v Speaker 2>At least if you know you've got five things, you

861
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:14.119
<v Speaker 2>want the fact that you don't have to wait for

862
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:16.679
<v Speaker 2>each to install and go, here's the five things go.

863
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.840
<v Speaker 2>That's a little more pleasant when Yeah, if you're whiting

864
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:22.840
<v Speaker 2>a wind get script, it's because you're a geek and

865
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:24.800
<v Speaker 2>you build a lot of machines. Like you want to

866
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:26.719
<v Speaker 2>see a guy who knows how to configure machine fast.

867
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.760
<v Speaker 2>You watch a guy like Paul Tharrott, and that guy

868
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:32.679
<v Speaker 2>tests three or four laptops a week. Oh yes, his

869
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:37.199
<v Speaker 2>box configuration process is polished. I've watched him in action

870
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:39.320
<v Speaker 2>because he just does it so much. He's not a

871
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.440
<v Speaker 2>normal hen Like most people don't build that many machines, right,

872
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.440
<v Speaker 2>but in it you did all the time.

873
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:47.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. No, And the multi install experience is mostly the

874
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:49.440
<v Speaker 3>idea is you just turned you've got a new computer.

875
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.760
<v Speaker 3>You want to install a bunch of apps kind of

876
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:55.159
<v Speaker 3>thing that's you know what you want is focused? Yeah, yeah,

877
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:57.960
<v Speaker 3>but we also have another advantage of going through us

878
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.280
<v Speaker 3>is that new PC experience the user logs and got

879
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:04.920
<v Speaker 3>a new computer they log in, we can Windows itself

880
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.719
<v Speaker 3>will offer the restore experience where we put back files

881
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 3>and stuff that includes apps that are using our installer.

882
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.639
<v Speaker 3>If you're in the store using our installer tech, then

883
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:16.800
<v Speaker 3>we will we can let the user just click the

884
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:19.199
<v Speaker 3>restore button and we'll start reinstalling those apps for them,

885
00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.079
<v Speaker 3>like you can look almost like migrating.

886
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Only if you're using your installer. Like yet another reason

887
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.920
<v Speaker 2>to use your installer, as it means you'll be included.

888
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:28.320
<v Speaker 2>You don't have to be top of mind.

889
00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.400
<v Speaker 3>I personally would say the only reason to not use

890
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:35.679
<v Speaker 3>our installer is generally momentum, because you have your own

891
00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:39.800
<v Speaker 3>installer already, yeah, and you already using it. That's the

892
00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:43.000
<v Speaker 3>biggest reason I find is like it's a case of yes,

893
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.239
<v Speaker 3>there are advantages, but the effort it requires for us

894
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.599
<v Speaker 3>to move it. The other reason is when you start

895
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:51.559
<v Speaker 3>getting into cross platform stuff, right, because obviously our installer

896
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:55.400
<v Speaker 3>is Windows only. Technically it can run on other platforms,

897
00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:58.000
<v Speaker 3>but I don't think anyone actually uses it for.

898
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 2>That, right. Yeah, But if you're making an app that

899
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:02.440
<v Speaker 2>also runs natively on a.

900
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.599
<v Speaker 3>Mac, yeah, that now it's a bit more complicated. It

901
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.679
<v Speaker 3>doesn't mean make using our installer doesn't make sense. See

902
00:44:08.679 --> 00:44:11.679
<v Speaker 3>WhatsApp they use our stuff and yet their cross platform.

903
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.039
<v Speaker 3>But if you want to have one installer kind of thing,

904
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.920
<v Speaker 3>then yeah, ours doesn't make as much sense. But for

905
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot of apps, it's a very easy process. The

906
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.360
<v Speaker 3>our installer is the MSIX both loved and hated. It

907
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:27.000
<v Speaker 3>is pretty much just a zip. It's a zip file

908
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:29.960
<v Speaker 3>pretty much of your app, all the files you need

909
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.079
<v Speaker 3>for it, and then an XML file that describes what

910
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:34.480
<v Speaker 3>you're installing in manifest, and in there you can do

911
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:38.119
<v Speaker 3>the manifest exactly and there you describe how to create

912
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.519
<v Speaker 3>start menu entries, what application, what excuse me, what file

913
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:43.719
<v Speaker 3>formats you can handle. You can also use it to

914
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.599
<v Speaker 3>register more advanced concept you have a Windows service, you

915
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:50.599
<v Speaker 3>can register one. You're going back into calm days and

916
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.000
<v Speaker 3>you need to do out of process comm stuff. You

917
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:56.280
<v Speaker 3>can register that. You want to register a file, not

918
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.960
<v Speaker 3>just a file handler, but you want to say, hey,

919
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:01.199
<v Speaker 3>I will give properties for the file or a right

920
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:04.039
<v Speaker 3>click menu, all those things we will do.

921
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.840
<v Speaker 2>And with that XML, yeah, is there a privilege request

922
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and things like that. This is where you set up

923
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the rules for Hey, I want your camera and I

924
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:12.079
<v Speaker 2>want this I want that.

925
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.679
<v Speaker 3>It's all the manifest that's also where you document all

926
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.599
<v Speaker 3>those things, right, and that's how it's the same system.

927
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.519
<v Speaker 3>You say, oh, I want to be able to elevate,

928
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:22.360
<v Speaker 3>I want to be able to access the whole file system,

929
00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.000
<v Speaker 3>or I only need your documents folder and all those things.

930
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.320
<v Speaker 3>The things we think of for mobile apps usually oh,

931
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:29.119
<v Speaker 3>this app is going to access your camera. Well, we

932
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.159
<v Speaker 3>do the same, and you can say no, yeah, and

933
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:34.639
<v Speaker 3>so the user gets that. Obviously you don't want the

934
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:38.880
<v Speaker 3>user to say no. Admittedly, a user nicety is that

935
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:41.760
<v Speaker 3>it's easier to uninstall, but obviously as developer, you never

936
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:45.199
<v Speaker 3>want them to get there. Yeah, but it is a

937
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.400
<v Speaker 3>nicer experience for uninstalled if they need to and it

938
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 3>are there limits to it? Yes, there are a few

939
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:55.039
<v Speaker 3>things you can't do. The biggest one is drivers. If

940
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:57.559
<v Speaker 3>you need to install a driver, you're going to have

941
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:01.039
<v Speaker 3>a bit of a headache. Technically, there's nothing stopping you

942
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:03.480
<v Speaker 3>from installing a driver from a technical perspective, but we

943
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 3>will block you. We scan all our you submit an app,

944
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.840
<v Speaker 3>we are scanning it, we are putting it. We will

945
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.079
<v Speaker 3>trial install it on VMS in the cloud and see

946
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.000
<v Speaker 3>what you've done so, and we will run down through

947
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:18.480
<v Speaker 3>this virus scanner, malicious scanner and all those different things.

948
00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:21.159
<v Speaker 3>So we are checking that you're not doing something we

949
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:21.639
<v Speaker 3>didn't tell.

950
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:21.840
<v Speaker 1>You to do.

951
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:24.039
<v Speaker 2>But the bottom line is, if you have an app

952
00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that absolutely needs a driver, you need to go about

953
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:27.920
<v Speaker 2>this a different way.

954
00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

955
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Generally, yes, Obviously if you're a giant isv things get

956
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 3>a bit more complicated. Sure, like you're Intel or whatever.

957
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:38.000
<v Speaker 3>We have ways to do that, but the over general,

958
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.719
<v Speaker 3>the general rule is unless the driver is signed by Microsoft,

959
00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:43.480
<v Speaker 3>it's not in the store. Right, So that's how CIS

960
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:47.800
<v Speaker 3>internals can install a driver. CIS Internals a powerful app.

961
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:50.400
<v Speaker 3>It's in the store using our installer, So I like

962
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.599
<v Speaker 3>to use them as the example. If cis internals can

963
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.039
<v Speaker 3>do us, then anyone.

964
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Can, right. You just have to go through the rule.

965
00:46:56.360 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So this internals works for you now, right.

966
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Microsoft?

967
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, right, yes, we really wanted him, but you

968
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:12.159
<v Speaker 3>know it will take your product too. Well. Yeah, but

969
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.800
<v Speaker 3>they're in the store using our updator and they do

970
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.440
<v Speaker 3>install a driver, but it's a Microsoft sign driver, so

971
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:24.039
<v Speaker 3>it's fine. Interesting, But yeah, generally speaking, there are very

972
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:26.519
<v Speaker 3>few apps I can think of that I would have

973
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:29.719
<v Speaker 3>installed on my computer. That wouldn't make sense. And the

974
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.679
<v Speaker 3>biggest one, honestly is visual Studio. Code is Visual Studio,

975
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:36.079
<v Speaker 3>not even Visual Studio code visual Studio. They're not going

976
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:38.239
<v Speaker 3>to use our installer because it's actually not one products,

977
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:39.800
<v Speaker 3>it's like twenty different products.

978
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the install process is crazy.

979
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:44.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they have their own installer. That's how big it is.

980
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:46.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and there are a case where it makes sense,

981
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.800
<v Speaker 3>but most apps it doesn't. You don't need to be you.

982
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:55.119
<v Speaker 3>What are you installing one thing? Your your got as

983
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:56.440
<v Speaker 3>I like to put it. If you can be X

984
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:59.199
<v Speaker 3>copy installed, yeah, you are perfect candidate.

985
00:47:59.280 --> 00:47:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

986
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:01.880
<v Speaker 3>There is nothing you can pretty much be doing at

987
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:04.079
<v Speaker 3>that point that we can't handle. Sure, and even those

988
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.199
<v Speaker 3>we can. As I said, Windows Services integration points with

989
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:09.599
<v Speaker 3>Windows you don't have to deal with the registry. You're

990
00:48:09.639 --> 00:48:11.679
<v Speaker 3>filling out an XML thing that we will tell you

991
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:13.840
<v Speaker 3>when you try to create a package. Yeah, you did

992
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.719
<v Speaker 3>something wrong, right, It's not you installing it into the

993
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:18.679
<v Speaker 3>registry and now hoping you got it right.

994
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>So can we talk a bit about the various update

995
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.599
<v Speaker 2>strategies because I know we have versions we hate and

996
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:29.920
<v Speaker 2>versions we can tolerate. I use the Azure Explorer all

997
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.360
<v Speaker 2>the time, and it'll always pop up and thinks says, hey,

998
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.719
<v Speaker 2>there's an update. Do you want to install it now

999
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 2>or when you're finished? And I'm like, hey, I appreciate

1000
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.400
<v Speaker 2>that because I got stopped to do That's why I

1001
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:45.440
<v Speaker 2>spend this and updating you wasn't one of them.

1002
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

1003
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:49.320
<v Speaker 3>So by default we do a check every twenty four

1004
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:53.199
<v Speaker 3>hours right to see if there's updates, and if there are,

1005
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:56.639
<v Speaker 3>we'll try to install them. If the app is in use,

1006
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:58.840
<v Speaker 3>we will still download it, but the install will then

1007
00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:01.800
<v Speaker 3>fail and we see, oh you're using it will late

1008
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:06.199
<v Speaker 3>to later when we retry, there's different logic and algorithms.

1009
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.159
<v Speaker 3>With a back off, we'll say okay, we try a bit, Nope,

1010
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:10.880
<v Speaker 3>still not fine. I'll try again later.

1011
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:13.760
<v Speaker 2>So, as me as a dev, do I have some

1012
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.519
<v Speaker 2>control here? Like? How did they?

1013
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:19.000
<v Speaker 3>You do have some You can force it to be faster?

1014
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:21.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how did Azure Storage know how to pop that

1015
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:22.239
<v Speaker 2>thing up? To me?

1016
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.159
<v Speaker 3>You can do it faster? As a developer, you can.

1017
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:27.840
<v Speaker 3>There's an API We'll we'll definitely put in the links

1018
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:31.000
<v Speaker 3>that you can say, hey, I want to know if

1019
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:34.519
<v Speaker 3>there's updates and if there are, apply them, now apply

1020
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.119
<v Speaker 3>them when I'm done running whatever. So a lot of

1021
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:41.920
<v Speaker 3>apps do that, but you don't need to, and you can.

1022
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.000
<v Speaker 3>It's your choice. We're not going to force you to,

1023
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:46.039
<v Speaker 3>but you do.

1024
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:46.679
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1025
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:50.239
<v Speaker 3>The one thing we don't have is pinning. So if

1026
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:53.599
<v Speaker 3>an app, when you install the app, it will be updated.

1027
00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:56.239
<v Speaker 3>You can delay it as much as you'd like, but

1028
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:59.159
<v Speaker 3>it will be updated because, as we said, with security,

1029
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:02.039
<v Speaker 3>we don't want Yes, you may want to hold onto

1030
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:05.320
<v Speaker 3>your version forever, but we don't really understand the concept

1031
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:07.960
<v Speaker 3>of security versus Oh, I added a billion new features

1032
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:11.960
<v Speaker 3>with a billion new bugs, right, and therefore you will

1033
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:13.360
<v Speaker 3>get your update. There's no question.

1034
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:15.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because then what's the other way that? I mean,

1035
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.280
<v Speaker 2>it's the awful way, which is you go to open

1036
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:19.239
<v Speaker 2>the app and goes there's an update, and you will

1037
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.599
<v Speaker 2>sit here while I update. Yeah. I also like how

1038
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the browsers do it where you get little icons just

1039
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.840
<v Speaker 2>like hey, you should close this and reopen it for

1040
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 2>the new version, and it starts off with just like

1041
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:32.159
<v Speaker 2>a little yellow and it gets right, it's like you

1042
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:34.880
<v Speaker 2>really need to do this, Oh yeah, you know it's

1043
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.679
<v Speaker 2>been that week. I really really need you to do this.

1044
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:40.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and you could do that. You will have to

1045
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.079
<v Speaker 3>write the UI to do it, to check for updates

1046
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.920
<v Speaker 3>and then show that button, and plenty of apps do that,

1047
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:46.880
<v Speaker 3>but you don't have to.

1048
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:50.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, And I just appreciate if I'm working with

1049
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.719
<v Speaker 2>you that I will still want to give my by

1050
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:56.400
<v Speaker 2>using the Microsoft Update or I'm not guaring taying my

1051
00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:58.199
<v Speaker 2>customer a bad experience.

1052
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:01.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is at the end of the day, and

1053
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:03.719
<v Speaker 3>if the customer wants to force the update, they can.

1054
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.800
<v Speaker 3>In the store, we show you the list of apps

1055
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:09.599
<v Speaker 3>that have updates, and if you try to update an app

1056
00:51:09.519 --> 00:51:12.519
<v Speaker 3>that's currently running, we'll first time we say no, it's running,

1057
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.920
<v Speaker 3>and then the user can say I don't care update anyways,

1058
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.519
<v Speaker 3>and then it will be updated. Right, So the user

1059
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:20.320
<v Speaker 3>still is in control, right.

1060
00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:22.519
<v Speaker 2>Or at least they feel like they're in control.

1061
00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:24.719
<v Speaker 1>And that's the most important thing, like that feel think

1062
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:25.559
<v Speaker 1>they're in control.

1063
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:32.639
<v Speaker 2>Feelings all right. Now, I get this and it makes

1064
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 2>a good case for I just it lightens my load

1065
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.679
<v Speaker 2>if I'm prepared to jump through the hoops deploying into

1066
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.000
<v Speaker 2>the store in terms of making apps available, and then

1067
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I can just push my updates up to the store

1068
00:51:44.519 --> 00:51:47.280
<v Speaker 2>through the API, and that's then handled for it.

1069
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:49.239
<v Speaker 3>You can do continuous integration.

1070
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:50.320
<v Speaker 2>And then if I want to make it pretty, I

1071
00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:51.880
<v Speaker 2>can write some code and interact with it.

1072
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:55.079
<v Speaker 3>Yep, you can do continuous integration. As we were saying,

1073
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:59.360
<v Speaker 3>you have your fancy CI. We have actions for GitHub,

1074
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:03.360
<v Speaker 3>actions for debt as your pipelines as well as just

1075
00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:06.599
<v Speaker 3>an outright command line tool that you can run and

1076
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:09.280
<v Speaker 3>you can therefore push your updates up to us and

1077
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:11.639
<v Speaker 3>then boom, now we have the new version. So it

1078
00:52:11.679 --> 00:52:14.920
<v Speaker 3>doesn't require you will need manual interactions for the first

1079
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:17.559
<v Speaker 3>upload because you've got to tell us all about your app.

1080
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:20.039
<v Speaker 3>But when you're doing updates, you don't have to. You

1081
00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.199
<v Speaker 3>can just have it as magical automation and we'll get

1082
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:24.320
<v Speaker 3>it and distribute it.

1083
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:26.880
<v Speaker 1>So have we talked about pricing yet We haven't.

1084
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.079
<v Speaker 3>And the good news is we recently rolled out that

1085
00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:32.800
<v Speaker 3>now to go through US is completely free.

1086
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's a good price.

1087
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.039
<v Speaker 3>We don't charge you anything unless you make your users

1088
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.239
<v Speaker 3>pay something. We won't charge you, not even for registration.

1089
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

1090
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:43.559
<v Speaker 3>So you have an app if it's free, there is

1091
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:45.079
<v Speaker 3>literally zero cost to you.

1092
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Wow. An is it the typical thirty percent?

1093
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Yep, it's the thirty percent I think there are some

1094
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:54.920
<v Speaker 3>different numbers there based on like how much your app

1095
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:57.719
<v Speaker 3>is used or whatever. I don't know the details, admittedly, sure,

1096
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.000
<v Speaker 3>but it is a system of yeah, if you are

1097
00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:03.880
<v Speaker 3>now charging your users will take the thirty percent cut.

1098
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:05.039
<v Speaker 3>But you don't have to.

1099
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:07.639
<v Speaker 1>But I'll let you also handle all the money, right,

1100
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:11.079
<v Speaker 1>so people buy it from the store and then you

1101
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:12.840
<v Speaker 1>cut me check at the end of the month.

1102
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:14.880
<v Speaker 3>There we deal with taxes.

1103
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.599
<v Speaker 2>And when you say handle all the money, you mean taxes,

1104
00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:19.159
<v Speaker 2>like that's the service.

1105
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:23.320
<v Speaker 3>We will handle sales tax and all that. We will

1106
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:26.599
<v Speaker 3>handle conversion between units. We will handle your payment options.

1107
00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:28.639
<v Speaker 3>The user wants to pay using PayPal, they want to

1108
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:31.280
<v Speaker 3>use a credit card, we deal with that. And then

1109
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:33.599
<v Speaker 3>also we're dealing with your licensing. As I said, you

1110
00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:36.280
<v Speaker 3>install it now you have ten licenses to it, right, right,

1111
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.639
<v Speaker 3>it's our headache, not yours. You don't have to do

1112
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:41.039
<v Speaker 3>the check of oh is this user allowed to run

1113
00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:43.440
<v Speaker 3>the app? There's no. You don't have to have an

1114
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:46.119
<v Speaker 3>account system if you don't want it and all that. Nope,

1115
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:47.840
<v Speaker 3>no user logs in and we're good.

1116
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.599
<v Speaker 1>Nice And again you said you can handle like Xbox

1117
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:52.519
<v Speaker 1>games and things like that. If I want to put

1118
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.159
<v Speaker 1>ye a game out there.

1119
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.360
<v Speaker 3>You want to make an app that runs on the Xbox,

1120
00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:59.239
<v Speaker 3>you can go through us, and you know what, you

1121
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.719
<v Speaker 3>can still be paid also for that.

1122
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Android apps a lot of games that way.

1123
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:06.239
<v Speaker 3>Android apps. Know, unless you're in China, then you get

1124
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:06.800
<v Speaker 3>to be special.

1125
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.079
<v Speaker 2>But now I normally expect that I deploy iPhone apps

1126
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:15.159
<v Speaker 2>to the Apple Store. It just knows. They want their

1127
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:18.400
<v Speaker 2>cat am i Android apps to the Google Store. They

1128
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:21.079
<v Speaker 2>want their cat Google Play and then Windows stuff.

1129
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:24.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeay, you you laugh. But I My favorite bug

1130
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:27.079
<v Speaker 3>report ever was a user complained that they couldn't install

1131
00:54:27.159 --> 00:54:30.400
<v Speaker 3>a Mac app in the from the Windows Store.

1132
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:31.079
<v Speaker 2>From the Windows Store.

1133
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's funny.

1134
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Done, dun't. Uh, that's awesome.

1135
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so users can get confused, but yes, it is

1136
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:40.079
<v Speaker 3>the app store model you're used to.

1137
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:42.159
<v Speaker 2>It's not like we made stuff easy for him either.

1138
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.400
<v Speaker 3>No, and unlike those other app stores, you don't have

1139
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.159
<v Speaker 3>to use our payment system. We don't require it. Interesting,

1140
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.440
<v Speaker 3>you can no legal We are not forced by legal

1141
00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:55.800
<v Speaker 3>or governments to allow it, but we will allow it.

1142
00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:58.119
<v Speaker 3>You want to use your payment system, be our guest.

1143
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.639
<v Speaker 3>Obviously we don't help you anymore. You don't get our

1144
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:04.360
<v Speaker 3>licensing features and all that. But you want to do it,

1145
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:07.199
<v Speaker 3>it's your you can do it. Just like with the installers,

1146
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:11.559
<v Speaker 3>will happily still host your app for us. It will

1147
00:55:11.559 --> 00:55:13.480
<v Speaker 3>be effectively a free app as far as we know.

1148
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.599
<v Speaker 3>But you can then have users have to pay somehow.

1149
00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:21.559
<v Speaker 3>Adobe does that for some of the products I know

1150
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.280
<v Speaker 3>for an example, they have where the installer. We have

1151
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 3>the installer effectively, but you still need to log in

1152
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.760
<v Speaker 3>with your Adobe account, and then it's Adobe's payment system,

1153
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:33.480
<v Speaker 3>and then you're not giving us any money. You're giving.

1154
00:55:33.559 --> 00:55:37.800
<v Speaker 3>It's whatever the percentage your payment processor is taking, so nothing.

1155
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:41.920
<v Speaker 3>So you have options. You can use our installer you cannot.

1156
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:45.400
<v Speaker 3>You can use our payments you cannot. We are very

1157
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:48.119
<v Speaker 3>much our goal is to be how you get the app.

1158
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.480
<v Speaker 3>Beyond that, we'll give you options, we'll let you do them.

1159
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:54.599
<v Speaker 3>But if you don't want to use our stuff, I

1160
00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:56.599
<v Speaker 3>mean more pain to you.

1161
00:55:57.159 --> 00:55:57.920
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty cool.

1162
00:55:58.480 --> 00:55:59.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like it.

1163
00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm a believer. Smoothly, Is there anything else that

1164
00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:05.440
<v Speaker 1>you want to say before we sign off?

1165
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:09.000
<v Speaker 3>I'd say we have a discord. There is a we

1166
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:11.400
<v Speaker 3>are in the Windows App Developer discord. We have a

1167
00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:14.199
<v Speaker 3>channel there and we will We are very good about

1168
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:17.280
<v Speaker 3>trying to answer people's questions. So something here you don't know,

1169
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:19.960
<v Speaker 3>you can reach out there, people can reach out to me.

1170
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:23.280
<v Speaker 3>We will try our best to help you and looking

1171
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 3>forward to having your apps very cool.

1172
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:27.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm just trying to deal with Microsoft having a discord.

1173
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:32.119
<v Speaker 2>That's very hipster of you. We had a slack at

1174
00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:34.079
<v Speaker 2>one point. I don't think we do any more. That's

1175
00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:34.639
<v Speaker 2>weird too.

1176
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:40.039
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, it will have to migrate to teams right.

1177
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:47.280
<v Speaker 4>Oh no, no, no, no, please, no more teams smoothly.

1178
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:49.880
<v Speaker 4>It's been great catching up with you, and thanks for

1179
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.280
<v Speaker 4>all the great information and I'm sure everybody really.

1180
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Appreciates it, of course.

1181
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:55.800
<v Speaker 5>All right, and we'll talk to you next time on

1182
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:15.639
<v Speaker 5>dot net frocks.

1183
00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1184
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.760
<v Speaker 1>and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video

1185
00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1186
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:33.960
<v Speaker 1>and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1187
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:36.280
<v Speaker 6>Visit our website at d O T N E t

1188
00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:40.519
<v Speaker 6>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1189
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:44.360
<v Speaker 6>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1190
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:47.559
<v Speaker 6>back to show number one, recorded in September two.

1191
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Thousand and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

1192
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:53.639
<v Speaker 1>They keep us in business. Now go write some code,

1193
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:54.760
<v Speaker 1>see you next time.

1194
00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:01.280
<v Speaker 3>Got vans and chime.

1195
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:05.239
<v Speaker 1>God, my face is hard than my taxes.

1196
00:58:05.320 --> 00:58:06.440
<v Speaker 3>In line D