Speaker 1: Hey, let's record a podcast. Let's record a podcast.
Speaker 2: Let's go what let's go we have podcasts. Funk. I
Speaker 2: was gonna say something there goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you thinking about you know, our Lord and
Speaker 3: Savior Victor Wembianna coming to.
Speaker 2: It's so it's so great. Uh. The the NBA playoffs
Speaker 2: are fantastic. You can you know two nights ago you
Speaker 2: have a regardless of anything about the thunder. Uh, their
Speaker 2: team is really good.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: The problem was that there was nobody that was really
Speaker 2: uh checking them, like nobody that really could and now
Speaker 2: there is and so it's really cool because yeah, they're
Speaker 2: doing it and uh one Ben you is just insane.
Speaker 2: He's taken down the the nefarious uh uh uh chet Holmgren,
Speaker 2: chet and yahoo as he's been christened by some Yeah
Speaker 2: it no, it's uh yeah, it is great. It was
Speaker 2: uh man, you just you can't like there's just something
Speaker 2: about like watching that and experiencing it, and like something
Speaker 2: that I have noticed recently is I was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: it's weird that like sports Twitter is not bad, like
Speaker 2: when big games are on, and I was like that's weird.
Speaker 2: And then like I was and I was like because
Speaker 2: like I mean it's like when when the like big
Speaker 2: ship is going down, like uh, like big football games,
Speaker 2: basketball games, even soccer and stuff like that. Like it's
Speaker 2: just like the whole thing is just like going nuts.
Speaker 2: And and I was like, what happened? And then I
Speaker 2: kind of realized that like people, like a lot of Americans,
Speaker 2: like a lot more than had previously been, are now
Speaker 2: like perfectly fine just putting politics into sports. Like whatever
Speaker 2: divide there was for that, which was probably just the
Speaker 2: divide of living that that gets set up when you
Speaker 2: live in the the Imperial Core. You don't have to
Speaker 2: worry about politics and stuff like that as a personal thing,
Speaker 2: and now you do. And now it's like oh okay,
Speaker 2: like no, like it's you know because earlier in the
Speaker 2: day on what was it, Monday, Yeah, on Monday they
Speaker 2: the some op ed had been posted in Oklahoma, and uh,
Speaker 2: I think it's the Oklahoma which is an Oka see
Speaker 2: paper and it was like the thunder grade on the
Speaker 2: court and they're great, like another thing, just like Israel.
Speaker 2: And it's just like wait, what.
Speaker 1: I mean, Like when you sent me that, I was like,
Speaker 1: is this not like.
Speaker 3: Written from the perspective of me a Sonics fan? It
Speaker 3: was like real, oh my god, he admitted out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where it's like it's like, oh yeah, fucking stealing
Speaker 3: fucking people's team slash Land and like what.
Speaker 2: Aside from the history of the team, which which you're
Speaker 2: you're absolutely right and apart, but aside from that, like
Speaker 2: that is it's so it's in such fucking awful like.
Speaker 1: It's it's like you both enjoy jenocide, like.
Speaker 2: What inherently disrespectful Like if I was if I was
Speaker 2: a player on that team, you know, and I mean
Speaker 2: I guarantee you that not all of them agree with
Speaker 2: any of that stuff. With that stuff, I'm sure some do,
Speaker 2: but like like I'd be like, get this, take this
Speaker 2: ship down. I Am like, what the fuck is wrong
Speaker 2: with you? I you know, we're not. Yeah, And it's
Speaker 2: but like yeah, so like people are just like, you
Speaker 2: know what, like we're just going to tee off on
Speaker 2: the thing. People don't like the Thunder anyway. For for
Speaker 2: the I mean, they win, which people hate, and that's fine.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also for the like you know, the you know,
Speaker 2: the Sonic stuff, and uh, you know, their fans are
Speaker 2: really annoyed. Like you know, it's like a yeah, you
Speaker 2: know so, uh so I'm you know so I just like, uh,
Speaker 2: I just keep noticing that like that, like people like
Speaker 2: it's being inflicted with the stuff. And there's been this
Speaker 2: long running thing all season where uh that Israeli player
Speaker 2: who plays on the Trailblazers, Denny I think his last
Speaker 2: name is Advia Avdya uh and he was in the
Speaker 2: idea and he's like very proud of is Roel and
Speaker 2: everything like that, where like he was booed at like
Speaker 2: arenas constantly and stuff like that, and it's just like, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think that Americans have kind of figured out
Speaker 2: that like the two things go hand in hand. They
Speaker 2: aren't they they aren't separate and and I don't and
Speaker 2: I think people have finally figured out that, like you can't,
Speaker 2: like when it involves real people and real things that
Speaker 2: are ongoing, you can't remove politics from that, like it
Speaker 2: you know, it just is uh inherent to it. And
Speaker 2: I think that's made a lot of it more fun,
Speaker 2: especially because like a lot, like a lot of the
Speaker 2: stuff with like conservatives is like it's all about like
Speaker 2: it's it's all about like racial politics or like culture
Speaker 2: war stuff, and so people just are like they either
Speaker 2: just make fun of it and laugh at it, or
Speaker 2: you know, they just like completely ignore it, like and
Speaker 2: and and it's all the better, you know. And I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are parts of it that aren't you know,
Speaker 2: that aren't great. I'm sure it's not great about some stuff,
Speaker 2: but like it's just, uh, it was weird. I think
Speaker 2: Americans finally have finally started to figure out that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, no, this is it's all part and parcel.
Speaker 2: It's all it's all part of the superstructure.
Speaker 1: You gotta well listen.
Speaker 3: I really need when Beyona to finish the job on
Speaker 3: these motherfuckers so that I can watch the playoffs, because unfortunately,
Speaker 3: I'm so insane about Oklahoma City that I haven't really
Speaker 3: been able to enjoy basketball this year because everyone keeps
Speaker 3: mentioning it and like I am like I can put
Speaker 3: my hand up. I'm fully rabid about this. I cannot
Speaker 3: be normal or enjoy myself. So I just need.
Speaker 1: Them gone and then I can I can enjoy it.
Speaker 3: Like the greatest test of my strength was really when
Speaker 3: certified Kiwi hottie Steven Adams played for Lahoma City, and
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 1: Like, get that man off. The team.
Speaker 3: Let him somewhere dacent and I believe he's in Memphis
Speaker 3: now or something. I was like, fine, finally, like, don't
Speaker 3: make me look at some hotty in Oklahoma City fucking here.
Speaker 1: This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous stuff.
Speaker 3: And I mean, and I know they're all like children
Speaker 3: and I shouldn't, but I am. And so look, it's
Speaker 3: it's hard enough being me. I'm just trying to get
Speaker 3: through the goddamn day as a Sonics fan.
Speaker 2: First of all, Stephen Adams is like in his late
Speaker 2: mid thirties, So I don't think you got to worry
Speaker 2: about that. It's like, I don't I don't think. I
Speaker 2: don't think we're even you know, yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 3: Listen, we're not We're not doing we're not doing problematic
Speaker 3: age gap discourse.
Speaker 2: On the show too. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: we're a medieval podcast. This is hardly an unacceptable age
Speaker 2: gap that called me what you called me when it's
Speaker 2: a sixty four year old and a twelve year old,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 1: Well then we'll have a conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's listen, we love basketball, folks.
Speaker 3: Uh, this is the basketball podcast now and it'll be
Speaker 3: even more so once the hated thunder are removed from
Speaker 3: my line of sight.
Speaker 1: You know, truly, the French are our saviors.
Speaker 2: So yeah, come on, no, no god, why oh oh man?
Speaker 2: All right, well let's let's do a podcasts.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. We do.
Speaker 4: We have a podcast.
Speaker 2: Ostensibly, Hello, welcome back to We're Not So Different podcast
Speaker 2: about how we love giant French alien guys modern. Every
Speaker 2: time I look at him, I'm like, man, modern nutrition
Speaker 2: and uh and medicine. Are you you would have been
Speaker 2: Oh my god, He's like, yeah, I'd have to talk
Speaker 2: to you about it before. Everybody. Like nine percent of
Speaker 2: people over like six foot four have been born in
Speaker 2: the last one hundred and fifty years or so, and
Speaker 2: it's just like like imagine like just taking like you're
Speaker 2: just a medieval person, and like you show up and
Speaker 2: there's like a line. There's like a line of like
Speaker 2: Wimbin Yama, Luca don Uh like uh, like George Mura
Speaker 2: San like just like all of these guys, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we have enough of these people that we can fill
Speaker 2: thirty something teams uh National Basketball League, and then there
Speaker 2: are more of them in leagues elsewhere and they're just like,
Speaker 2: the tallest man I've ever seen is five foot six.
Speaker 3: The medieval people are like, get them a pike. Yeah,
Speaker 3: his ass on the battlefield.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some there's some lord who's like, if you
Speaker 2: put a pike in Wimbin Yama's hands, he just he
Speaker 2: just provides, like he just you just need shields around
Speaker 2: him to block the arrows.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, they just do.
Speaker 3: You could just kind of send him on his way
Speaker 3: and it would be good, you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, folks, today we're to finish up talking about a round. Yeah,
Speaker 2: although we're going to talk about horse now moods what
Speaker 2: a shock. Before we do, we got a question from
Speaker 2: Ollie Camp who says who takes the biscuit as the
Speaker 2: most nanci of British kings?
Speaker 5: Oh God, huge spoiled for choice, I mean literally, because
Speaker 5: the thing that's really messed up is like how much
Speaker 5: Nansen is involved in the whole thing, like generally and completely.
Speaker 3: Because it's like that's why they send all their kids
Speaker 3: to boarding school. It's like so they could get nons
Speaker 3: dislike their dad, yeah or whatever the fuck, and they
Speaker 3: can share the same specific like trauma or whatever.
Speaker 1: So like that's fun.
Speaker 2: But I mean.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because I'm like, you know, the biggest wrong
Speaker 3: in is obviously Henry the Eighth, But all those women
Speaker 3: were above marital age. So it's kind of like fi.
Speaker 3: I mean, like say what you will about the man,
Speaker 3: and I will.
Speaker 2: We can slander him for a lot of things, but
Speaker 2: not that's he liked.
Speaker 1: Having sex with adult women to his credit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like the thing is, it's like we don't know
Speaker 3: that much about the nonsen because like even if you
Speaker 3: marry like a kid, which is like really it's like
Speaker 3: really uncommon to pair off a kid with an adult, right,
Speaker 3: So it's like if you get married off at an
Speaker 3: early age, it's usually that you're getting married off at
Speaker 3: an early age to another kid, right.
Speaker 1: Like that's that's what they're doing there.
Speaker 3: And as a result, like they just kind of and
Speaker 3: then they sit around and wait till they're sixteen, right,
Speaker 3: and then that's and then that's when you have sex. Now,
Speaker 3: the trouble is, we don't really know what they get
Speaker 3: up to in their own time. Yeah, right, Like I
Speaker 3: don't know in your free time, are you nancing? It
Speaker 3: is quite possible, you know, they have a whole mess
Speaker 3: of illegitimate children all over the goddamn place. Like I
Speaker 3: was having to explain this at work the other day
Speaker 3: some people who are like, oh, well, is it weird
Speaker 3: that you know William the Conqueror was a Bassard. I
Speaker 3: was like, no, that was normal, Like that's normal, Like
Speaker 3: that's how, that's just how normans do it. And also
Speaker 3: like there are so many bastard kids around the joint.
Speaker 3: I'm not exactly always sure who they're having these bassard
Speaker 3: children with, though. No, I'm gonna be real with you, like,
Speaker 3: who are we shagging here? I don't know, So it's
Speaker 3: actually kind of difficult to say in particular.
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna have to go with all of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tire them all of that brush. I don't trust to
Speaker 1: damn one of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where unless there is an
Speaker 2: outstanding legend that could somehow be attested to. I also
Speaker 2: don't know how we're gonna look, how we look it up,
Speaker 2: and how people would have known about that, because like
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it is frown How would that
Speaker 2: have how would that have disseminated to other people? And
Speaker 2: if they found out, like why why was it something
Speaker 2: done about that specifically, yeah.
Speaker 3: Because they don't like it. Yeah, they're like, we definitely have.
Speaker 3: So for example, there's like a court rule that survives
Speaker 3: to us from I think fourteenth century York off the
Speaker 3: top of my head, where there's like a twelve year
Speaker 3: old who gets married to some guy in the city
Speaker 3: and they take his ask to courtner like what are
Speaker 3: you the fuck are you doing? Unants good, like get
Speaker 3: out of here. But then weirdly, like the girl's like, no,
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: I love being nonsd And it's just like Jesus and
Speaker 1: every one of the court is like Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things where like everyone at the
Speaker 2: court is that the judge is ready to bang his
Speaker 2: medieval version of a gavel. He's ready to bring it down,
Speaker 2: and like everybody's like, thumbs up, we did it. We
Speaker 2: got this nonce fuck. And then this girl walks up
Speaker 2: and she's like, I am a sound mind and body
Speaker 2: I have I have that attested to by this mini psychiatrist.
Speaker 2: I love this man.
Speaker 1: And you're like, god, fucking I do it.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm giving up the law and I'm going to
Speaker 2: be a brigand fucking yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Like, what is the point of any of this if
Speaker 1: that's what we have to do. So yeah, and everyone
Speaker 1: was just like gross. So and it's like a whole thing.
Speaker 1: It's quite a famous case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I shouldn't cast this versions on a twelve year
Speaker 2: old that is a oh yeah, it's a fucking insane thing.
Speaker 2: To the psychology that goes into that is just Yeah.
Speaker 2: I hope, I hope she had a good life, That
Speaker 2: is all I will say.
Speaker 3: I mean, I doubt if she lived in Fourtunes God York,
Speaker 3: so yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2: God no, yeah, anyway, Uh, it's a hard answer to find.
Speaker 2: But uh, look, they had different sexual mores than we did.
Speaker 2: They had different ideas about when sex should occur, and
Speaker 2: especially about consent and things like that. Uh but look,
Speaker 2: adults fucking children.
Speaker 1: Has It's always been weird.
Speaker 2: It's always been really frowned upon. That's not something that
Speaker 2: you do typically. I guess they're the Greeks, but that
Speaker 2: they're not getting into all.
Speaker 3: But also like they're weird, yeah, right, like that, like
Speaker 3: it's not a normal state of affairs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was that like ain't that ancient like
Speaker 2: medieval like warrior culture thing where like if you were
Speaker 2: with a man before he grew a beard, it was
Speaker 2: with a sorry. If you're with a boy before he
Speaker 2: started to sprout a beard, it was like free slash yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're just like okay, yeah, well fuck gross anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's uh uh yeah, we gonna answer another question later.
Speaker 2: But Ollie, thank you for that one. And if you
Speaker 2: want to ask us questions like these or hear the
Speaker 2: bonus episode we've got coming out this Friday on the
Speaker 2: Seven Deadly Sins and what all that means and what
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean, then check us out Patreon, dot com,
Speaker 2: slash w nstpod five bucks a month. It's great, it's fun.
Speaker 2: You will like it.
Speaker 1: You will.
Speaker 3: It could be in the eyes and tell me you
Speaker 3: look like it. You can't because this is an audio format.
Speaker 2: Yep, it look me in the eyes from the past
Speaker 2: when you you will be hearing this in the future.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the world of tomorrow. Yeah all right, okay,
Speaker 2: So on the main show, So we pick up where
Speaker 2: we left off last time. The large delegation of leaders
Speaker 2: from around the old territorial outlines of Greater Iran making
Speaker 2: the extremely long journey from Quasvon on the southern coast
Speaker 2: of the Caspian Sea all the way up to Karakorum
Speaker 2: in central Mongolia. In twelve fifty one, the group of
Speaker 2: dignitaries led by the Quadi of Quasvon were making the
Speaker 2: trip to pay their respects to the new Kagan of
Speaker 2: the United Mongol Empire, Manka Khan, and to make a
Speaker 2: humble request. They simply asked the Manka extend the rule
Speaker 2: of the Mongol Empire even further, making it the largest
Speaker 2: landed empire and world history, and saved West Asia from
Speaker 2: centuries of misrule in the process. Three decades before, the
Speaker 2: Mongols under Timujin had repaid the foolishness of the chorusm
Speaker 2: Shah and his idiot relations a millionfold by wiping the
Speaker 2: Corasmian Empire off the map, an act which did entail
Speaker 2: outsize destruction in northern Khorasan. Herat had been put to
Speaker 2: the sword, and the formerly grand city of a Nicheppur
Speaker 2: no longer existed. Then their land had been placed under
Speaker 2: the auspices of a military governor, just like the early
Speaker 2: Callus had used to stifle Iranian autonomy. In the first place,
Speaker 2: they had no sovereign and were subject to constant raids
Speaker 2: by fringe nomadic groups. How in the fuck could more
Speaker 2: of this be a better thing? Yet, the assembled notables,
Speaker 2: the new vanguard of the ideological project, had seen the
Speaker 2: bigger picture and had an idea. Yes, living on the
Speaker 2: periphery of the Mongol Empire was a familiar type of hell,
Speaker 2: But amalgamation into the empire proper wealth the stability they craved. Really,
Speaker 2: it was all they needed to spread Iranian culture and
Speaker 2: influence into the wider world. Despite the dire circumstances, this
Speaker 2: six hundred year old ideological project had survived in secret,
Speaker 2: perhaps the sole survivor of the Islamic conquest and cultural
Speaker 2: genocide that followed in its wake, and had even flourished
Speaker 2: to some extent. What's more, it had done so with
Speaker 2: an almost total apps of state level authority or even
Speaker 2: a set way of life for over half a millennium.
Speaker 2: But it wouldn't live on without a stable state with
Speaker 2: rulers who bought into the Iranian Iranian identity to some degree,
Speaker 2: which is why the election of Monkey Khan was a godsend.
Speaker 2: Despite the horrors the Mongols inflicted, many of the wealthiest
Speaker 2: families of Greater Iran began working with them immediately sending
Speaker 2: their children into imperial service. This included the if Takar
Speaker 2: family of Quasvin, who sent the Quadi to serve as
Speaker 2: a tutor for the grandchildren of Timujin himself, including Monkey, Kublai, Hulegu,
Speaker 2: and more. Thus, the quiet work behind the scenes had
Speaker 2: already been done, as the grandchildren had been inculcated to
Speaker 2: the Iranian identity and Persian language since adolescence. It was
Speaker 2: a massive risk, but simultaneously a perfectly calculated one. For
Speaker 2: the first time in six hundred years, Iran had a
Speaker 2: chance to thrive, and the dignitaries made the most of it.
Speaker 2: Monkey heard their please and sent his younger brother Hulegu
Speaker 2: to do the job, which would result in the defeat
Speaker 2: of their enemies, Iranian incorporation into the Empire, and blessed
Speaker 2: stability for a time in the newly formed Ilkanate. Later,
Speaker 2: the Quadi's gamble paid off spectacularly, with one of whu
Speaker 2: Legu's descendants adopting Islam and fully assimilating to Iranian ways.
Speaker 2: But the ultimate survival and global flourishing of the Iranian
Speaker 2: identity and ideological project would it be realized under the
Speaker 2: Ilkanate Instead. The final champion of this cause was Timur,
Speaker 2: the last great Eurasian nomadic conqueror, who was born into
Speaker 2: an Iranian miliu created by the Ilkhanate rule. In the end,
Speaker 2: it was his adoption of Iranian ways and the success
Speaker 2: of his Tiburid empire that would create a cultural renaissance
Speaker 2: built upon Iranian thought and language that took Asia and
Speaker 2: Europe by storm. This would cement Iron's play in history
Speaker 2: and pave the way for the rise of the Sapavids,
Speaker 2: who realized the long culmination of this process by reintroducing
Speaker 2: a native ethnic Iranian state into the early modern world.
Speaker 2: All Right, today is our fourth and final episode in
Speaker 2: the series on a pre modern Iran. Today we will
Speaker 2: discuss the continuation of the ideological project from the initial
Speaker 2: Mongol invasion circa twelve nineteen up to the fall of
Speaker 2: the Timurids in fifteen oh one, and briefly touch on
Speaker 2: how these Saphaphids brought it into the early modern period.
Speaker 2: We'll also try to shed a little more light almost
Speaker 2: the situation on the ground looked like at the time,
Speaker 2: why it was so apocalyptic to the people, and how
Speaker 2: it shook out at the end of the Middle Ages.
Speaker 2: Next week I will be on vacation and we will
Speaker 2: be unlocking a bonus episode, possibly the Dinosaur one, for
Speaker 2: everyone to yay.
Speaker 1: That's a good ass one. Oh sorry, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm too excited about my own podcast, right.
Speaker 2: I like it. Damn this episode of May we'll be
Speaker 2: out for patrons this Friday. And yeah, as I said,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the Seven Deadly Sins and whether they're
Speaker 2: actually deadly or not. I mean, I'm currently thinking gluttonous
Speaker 2: thoughts about lunch right now, and yet I remain on
Speaker 2: this mortal coil. What's up with that? Suck suck it? Aquinas?
Speaker 2: You dead bitch? If he's so holy, why is he dead?
Speaker 1: Oh? God, get his ass? Many many questions. I mean,
Speaker 1: Luke's thinking about lunch and Aquinas is dead, so.
Speaker 2: How And I'm wrathful. I'm wrathful against And here I stand.
Speaker 2: Once we get struck by lightning in the house somehow,
Speaker 2: and you're like, well, fuck, yes, he showed me. All right,
Speaker 2: let's start out with a broad question, real quick from
Speaker 2: MG in your face speaking of the Iran series Great
Speaker 2: by the way, years ago, I heard an Iranian nationalist
Speaker 2: claim that the all the accomplishments of the Islamic Golden
Speaker 2: Age in terms of math, science, medicine, maintaining ancient knowledge
Speaker 2: definitely all came from the Persian tradition of recent converts,
Speaker 2: and Iranians should push for a serious rebranding of the
Speaker 2: term to be something like medieval Persian Golden Age, because
Speaker 2: everyone attributes almost anything labeled Islamic, especially back to the Arabs,
Speaker 2: and or that early Islam has been seen as an
Speaker 2: undifferentiated mass on the world stage, but essentially Arab and
Speaker 2: that pissed him off.
Speaker 3: What say, y'all, that's really interesting, that's really interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't have a lot of skin in the game.
Speaker 3: And I mean, like my like Reugh reference points to
Speaker 3: it are. I mean, it's true when like if I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about like you know, Avicenna and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, okay, get some points.
Speaker 2: I would say, so that there's two things I thought about.
Speaker 2: And I did want to say this because we're talking
Speaker 2: about Iranian identity, Persian identity, Persian language and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And I mean, like they were not the stars or
Speaker 2: the center of this show. As we've seen during the
Speaker 2: Middle Ages, the what we call it on is either
Speaker 2: occupied or left to fend for it. It was not
Speaker 2: the center of the world at that point. There's a
Speaker 2: lot more stuff going on, and there are a lot
Speaker 2: of other places that are more important at this time. Now.
Speaker 2: The thing I would say about this about the Islamic
Speaker 2: Golden Age is that the Iranian culture contributed greatly to science,
Speaker 2: especially astronomy. They were huge into that. We'll talk about
Speaker 2: that with Timmur in a few minutes, and with culture.
Speaker 2: But a lot of the agricultural and a lot of
Speaker 2: the agricultural mathematic and scientific stuff came from Iberia, which
Speaker 2: would be not like not Persian, not Persian, not iron.
Speaker 1: And like quite famously, quite famously not Persian.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I do I do think that there
Speaker 3: is you could have within this circumstance. I do think
Speaker 3: you could have a discussion about like does the Iberian
Speaker 3: Peninsula account as.
Speaker 1: Like Arabic, certainly not, but is Islamic.
Speaker 3: So I mean I don't have a problem because I
Speaker 3: mean I suppose that I tend to say Islamic Golden
Speaker 3: Age and it's like, well, yeah, they're all.
Speaker 1: So, so I guess I don't see the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like yeah, and I mean, calling it
Speaker 2: the Arab Golden Age also takes away from the fact
Speaker 2: that if you believe that Persian identity is the dominant
Speaker 2: factor behind the Islamic Golden Age, you would that necessarily
Speaker 2: works against that. That works against calling it the calling Arab,
Speaker 2: because they were explicitly not Arab. They were they were
Speaker 2: originated in Persis, and they took over this wide thing.
Speaker 2: We talked about Greater Iran, and then the heart of
Speaker 2: it moved to Korusan. But I mean it was all
Speaker 2: the way up into Central Asia, Bukhara, samarcand all that
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. They had extensive relations with China. They
Speaker 2: it's it's I don't think the Arab thing works. I
Speaker 2: think Islamic works better because this was under the wide
Speaker 2: auspice of Islam, and at least at the beginning it
Speaker 2: was technically all under the auspice of the Umids when
Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff was going down. So I
Speaker 2: don't think it all happened there. I just I mean,
Speaker 2: there's too much good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that you're right.
Speaker 3: And I think also a thing I would suppose I
Speaker 3: would say about it too, is like dog, I've never
Speaker 3: heard anyone call it the Arabic Golden Age. No, I've
Speaker 3: only ever heard the Islamic Golden Age. Like that's not
Speaker 3: like and you know, this is one of the things,
Speaker 3: like it's not as though I don't also fall into
Speaker 3: ideological traps, you know, like we Yeah, especially when it
Speaker 3: comes to things like nationalism.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very heady, yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, you know, it's a it's a hetty little mixture,
Speaker 3: and especially if you see yourself as being particularly put
Speaker 3: upon or uniquely.
Speaker 1: Oppressed, you know, like you've all.
Speaker 3: Had to hear my check bullshit for a million years,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's like and that's kind of cute.
Speaker 1: Because it's like, well, what did we ever do?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: But you know, it is one of these things where
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not even really sure what you're getting at,
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes because it's.
Speaker 2: Like, what did you guys do? You didn't willingly submit
Speaker 2: to a Vichy style Nazi government, unlike some places that
Speaker 2: it had to be thrust upon you at gun and
Speaker 2: bomb point.
Speaker 3: Everyone's just mad at us for having the balls to
Speaker 3: actually bomb a Nazi that's.
Speaker 2: Right, fuck it, Yeah, yeah, I just I don't. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, clearly this is anecdotal, and you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know this person who said this or anything, but
Speaker 2: it's just I think that's something you might expect from
Speaker 2: his an Islamic nat or excuse me, an Iranian nationalist
Speaker 2: to say, just as you would expect an American nationalists
Speaker 2: to say, like America's great, like look at all this
Speaker 2: stuff we've got, you know, you know, oh, look at
Speaker 2: all the stuff we manufacture here. Look how great we are.
Speaker 2: And you completely forget the fact that we can't manufacture
Speaker 2: jack shit here without Chinese components. So it's like, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's kind of part and parcel with the thing.
Speaker 2: I would say that it's definitely not correct.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 2: A lot of the stuff I have I have seen
Speaker 2: once or twice. A lot of this stuff be called
Speaker 2: the Iberian or the Andalusian like Golden Golden Age, and
Speaker 2: I think that's just anecdotal because it's what people are
Speaker 2: more familiar with, like in certain cases, because I mean
Speaker 2: a lot of the math, a lot of the science
Speaker 2: and medicine stuff they did came from all underloose, so
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, shut it came from Yeah, it came
Speaker 2: from everywhere. I mean, the just thinking about the Arab
Speaker 2: agricultural Revolution, which we talked about a couple of times. Like,
Speaker 2: I mean, a big part of that was re uh
Speaker 2: rebuilding and modernizing old Roman uh water wheels and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, which is definitely something that would not have
Speaker 2: come from Persia because and I mean all of the
Speaker 2: like the foods that they spread around, like the bananas
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, which came from deeper in Africa.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like yeah, it's anyway, yeah, uh So
Speaker 2: that was the whole thing. And I also did just
Speaker 2: want to say, like, you know, there's there's a lot
Speaker 2: of there's a lot of people doing a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff in here, and it's in you know, we're focusing
Speaker 2: on this because of Ron is in the news now,
Speaker 2: but you know this was not the center of the
Speaker 2: universe anything.
Speaker 3: I mean, although I kind of love it when people
Speaker 3: do this ship. I think it's really funny. I think
Speaker 3: I've told this. I think I've told this particular story before,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to do it anyway again.
Speaker 1: Which is one time my.
Speaker 3: Dad, like in Chicago, there was like a Lithuanian social club.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like very Chicago story.
Speaker 3: There'd be all kinds of esoteric immigrants and they would
Speaker 3: start a social club and in the lobby they had
Speaker 3: in marble engraved a map of the Polish Lithuanian Empire
Speaker 3: under the Agalonians and it said and it said return
Speaker 3: what you owe around it.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I just think it's a Chicago and
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 3: And it's just a very funny way of relating to
Speaker 3: the Agalonians say like, oh yeah that's all. That's all
Speaker 3: like completely completely Lithuanian.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, you know what.
Speaker 3: Dog absolutely get it, like get after it. But I
Speaker 3: mean my point is this is what this is. Your
Speaker 3: brain on Nash is right, you'll.
Speaker 1: Just yeah, yeah, you'll think of some things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nationalism is uh, it's one of those things that
Speaker 2: we have to deal with. Talked about it many times.
Speaker 2: Any country that is conquered from without is going to
Speaker 2: develop nationalism to some degree. And you know, even if
Speaker 2: we rooted it out from like everything else, that would
Speaker 2: still happen, like regardless, and it's something that has to
Speaker 2: be combated. So uh yeah anyway, Uh, I gin your face,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 1: For the question, thoughts provoking question.
Speaker 2: Indeed indeed in stroke it Yeah, like Bart Simpson, uh
Speaker 2: with the like the smoking jacket on, but he's.
Speaker 1: Blown the bubbles, yeah.
Speaker 2: Which is still like how I think about like, uh,
Speaker 2: like snooty smoking because pipe tobacco fuck off and die man.
Speaker 2: I'd rather smoke bubbles anyway. Uh, let's talk about the Mongols,
Speaker 2: so folks are not going to rehash all of it,
Speaker 2: but uh, you know, twelve o seven, Timmygen finally takes
Speaker 2: the reins of the Mongols begins spreading out. They take
Speaker 2: over parts of China. They assimilate the Wiger and.
Speaker 1: Other Laban's realm. But for yes, okay, that's what you're
Speaker 1: doing exactly.
Speaker 2: They assimilate a lot of southern Siberian groups as well,
Speaker 2: Tongu goose groups and stuff like that, and they spread out.
Speaker 2: And then as we talked about and I think it
Speaker 2: was episode two forty nine, we talked about some medieval blunders.
Speaker 2: If you want a recap of the invasion of the
Speaker 2: Korismian Empire from twelve nineteen to twelve twenty one, you
Speaker 2: can go and listen to the second half of that,
Speaker 2: and then when you're done and you listen to this,
Speaker 2: you can then go listen to the first half of
Speaker 2: that as well, and you can hear about the White
Speaker 2: ship and us make fun of us stupid that was too.
Speaker 1: Don't drink its sale, guys.
Speaker 2: Don't nope, uh yeah, so uh Timmy Jane invades the
Speaker 2: Corasbian Empire and this includes a large part of corus On.
Speaker 2: They devastate so much, just just so so much, like
Speaker 2: I mean, they we we should, we should, note, of course,
Speaker 2: that the numbers that are cited are both insane, because
Speaker 2: they said that one point four million people were killed
Speaker 2: at Herat, and I'm gonna tell you that the largest
Speaker 2: city in the world this time was at most like
Speaker 2: a million or one point two people, like.
Speaker 1: No, we just didn't have that people. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But it's also funny because those numbers come from official
Speaker 2: Mongol histories, which means the Mongols were that that guy
Speaker 2: turned it in and was like, yeah, we killed they
Speaker 2: killed five hundred thousand at Herat, and Timijen's like like, no, higher,
Speaker 2: I want I want people to I want people to
Speaker 2: think we stained the ground red with you know, and
Speaker 2: like all right, boss, sure, yeah yeah. Timijen dies in
Speaker 2: twelve twenty seven. The Mongols remained united, but lands were
Speaker 2: divided between his four sons. Uh The area of Khorasan
Speaker 2: would have been a very peripheral area, would have been
Speaker 2: part of the UH. It would have gone to Chagatai
Speaker 2: and become loosely part of the Chagatai Khanate later, but
Speaker 2: it was also contested by the descendants of Jochi, who
Speaker 2: had become the Golden Horde, which was the western part
Speaker 2: of the Mongol Empire up into Russia and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Ogaday took over for Timijen, and after he died there
Speaker 2: was a ten year into regnum and then Guyuk, who
Speaker 2: was one of Ogaday's sons, became kagan for two years
Speaker 2: before he died, and then control passed to the Toluid dynasty,
Speaker 2: which are the sons of Timmingen's youngest son, Tolali, and
Speaker 2: they were supposed to rule the Mongol heartlands. However, there
Speaker 2: was a problem going on, and not a problem, but
Speaker 2: there was an underlying political turmoil going on, which was
Speaker 2: Timugen and his sons were all I mean, they were
Speaker 2: all nomadic. Oga Day took to uh the settled lifestyle
Speaker 2: more than the rest. He was a heavy drinker. He
Speaker 2: built Caracorum during his lifestyle.
Speaker 3: But Uh, he said earlier, like look the man wasn't drunk,
Speaker 3: he wasn't getting on a fucking horse.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's no. He would he would kill a lot
Speaker 2: of people, but he was a fucking life not gonna commute. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna Yeah, fucking
Speaker 2: hell brouh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not getting I'm nursing a hangover over here.
Speaker 2: What you think this is?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So uh manka is he kind of like his things.
Speaker 2: He's gonna like rebuke the ways of Ogaday and they're
Speaker 2: going back to the ways of the Mongols under Timusen.
Speaker 2: And you see this thing develop in the grandsons of
Speaker 2: of Timugen, where they had all been raised and they
Speaker 2: had all been tutored in uh, in all of these
Speaker 2: languages and all in all of these subjects by like
Speaker 2: the greatest tutors in the empire, Persian, Chinese, everyone, you know,
Speaker 2: everyone they could find, and and they had been taught
Speaker 2: like this. And as they were raised more in closer
Speaker 2: to cities and and things like that, some of them
Speaker 2: were like, look, man, all that shit is great about
Speaker 2: riding around, but like what if I just ruled from
Speaker 2: like a really big you know.
Speaker 1: Like again, I'm not going to commute.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, what.
Speaker 2: If what if I just ruled from here from here
Speaker 2: and like we you know, we just got some motion,
Speaker 2: you know, or like and we didn't yeah, and we
Speaker 2: didn't call the people that we rule over dirt scrapers
Speaker 2: and like treat them like shit, what have you? Just
Speaker 2: you know, treated them like normal people or whatever. And
Speaker 2: that is like a rift in the Mongols, and it's
Speaker 2: gonna be a big thing going forward. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, there are the sons of Uh Totalis and
Speaker 2: they have a civil war. But we'll talk about that
Speaker 2: in a minute. There is the destruction of the Korism
Speaker 2: Empire created a power vacuum and ran for thirty years.
Speaker 2: There was no ruler uh rule, There was no overruler.
Speaker 2: Everything was localized. Raids were common from like their own bandits,
Speaker 2: plus random Mongol Horde hangers on and vassals. The Golden
Speaker 2: Horde didn't really establish it. Neither neither the Golden Horde
Speaker 2: nor Czech Tai Khanate established any kind of king in
Speaker 2: the area. And then, you know, as we said, when
Speaker 2: Monkey came to power in twelve fifty one, a large
Speaker 2: delegation was sent by the people of Iran to Karakorum
Speaker 2: to request, you know, please please help us stop the
Speaker 2: anarchy everything like that, and I mean they just they
Speaker 2: took people from Korusan, Ciston, Iraq, Shiraz room. They just
Speaker 2: they took they took all of these people and they
Speaker 2: were like, please just incorporate us because this is insane.
Speaker 2: We cannot live under this. And Monkey because this meant
Speaker 2: uh expanding the empire, which you know was was part
Speaker 2: of his ambit according to according to their ways. Uh.
Speaker 2: He said, uh, younger brother Hulegu go and take control
Speaker 2: of western and Central Asia, while his other brother, one
Speaker 2: of his other brothers, Kublai, was sent to finish up
Speaker 2: the work in China.
Speaker 3: He's going to decreate, decree at least one stately pleasures
Speaker 3: dome at least.
Speaker 2: One at least at least one in Xanadu.
Speaker 1: If not, you know, I'm just saying yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh. So Julegu comes in. Uh he gets
Speaker 2: down there around like twelve fifty five or so. Uh.
Speaker 2: He he and his forces are the ones who are
Speaker 2: responsible for killing the uh the Hashashin assassins. Uh after
Speaker 2: they had sent someone after Monkey, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're gonna be done with that.
Speaker 3: So they they were like, unfortunately, you guys are too
Speaker 3: like you smoke too loud.
Speaker 1: Yep, your members too bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you hash Susians, they'll kill you.
Speaker 2: You see, you see too much of the gates of Gehina.
Speaker 2: When you are the gardens of Gehina, when you when
Speaker 2: you when you smoke good And so they took him
Speaker 2: out and then Monkey turned his attentions to the by
Speaker 2: this point barely clinging on a bass in Califate in
Speaker 2: Baghdad and uh Julegu, Uh, I mean they they destroyed
Speaker 2: bagh Dad. It didn't what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's a bad scene. Like the vibes are
Speaker 3: not the vibes are not tranquil.
Speaker 2: We'll just see yeah, I mean yeah, it's it's like
Speaker 2: it's like in any city. But I mean Baghdad at
Speaker 2: the time was uh was I mean, well, yeah, it
Speaker 2: would have been probably the second most fortified city in
Speaker 2: the world after Constantinople, and it like and I mean
Speaker 2: they just reduced it. It estimated that this might have
Speaker 2: been the The army that was sent with who Legu
Speaker 2: might have been the largest army the Mongols ever fielded.
Speaker 2: It was possibly over like one hundred and thirty thousand
Speaker 2: soldiers to begin with. Now a lot of those are
Speaker 2: doing like Garrison shit because they had a wide span
Speaker 2: of territory to get through. But yeah, they took out Baghdad.
Speaker 2: But the thing about it is is that much like
Speaker 2: timmygen had done, who Legu said, hey, uh, let's get
Speaker 2: all of those books out. And so they took call
Speaker 2: the books and they eventually took them to uh Maree
Speaker 2: mereg Uh which was became the capital for a little while.
Speaker 2: They built it up there and uh he who Legu
Speaker 2: was also like, uh, hey man, these people really like me. Oh.
Speaker 2: They gave me this cool purple cloak to wear and
Speaker 2: this weird looking exotic crown from back in the day.
Speaker 2: That like, uh oh, well this seems so nice and
Speaker 2: they want me to be the king of king. Oh
Speaker 2: this is great. And so whether he had been before
Speaker 2: this or not, who Legu was converted to what we
Speaker 2: might call the reformist uh sect of the Mongols, and
Speaker 2: he was like, these cities great.
Speaker 3: We like uh we like flattery goes a long way
Speaker 3: it it does, you know, like bribery works, guys. I
Speaker 3: just think that that's an important thing. Remember, with a
Speaker 3: lot of medieval people. If you just give them a
Speaker 3: nice enough hat, they'll probably.
Speaker 1: Go with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, politics, yeah uh and uh. So at this time,
Speaker 2: a lot, they the the Ilkonate Stable lot was was
Speaker 2: formed right here and it basically stabilized rule in this
Speaker 2: greater like southwestern and central Asian area. And it was
Speaker 2: it was what they needed on the ground to start
Speaker 2: to to start moving in the direction. Because now that
Speaker 2: they had this, they all all of the like the
Speaker 2: the Ilkinate bureaucracy, administrative state, the Keshigs, which were like
Speaker 2: the basically the praetorian guards for the Uh, for the
Speaker 2: cons Uh were staffed with the sons and daughters of
Speaker 2: corus On you know that like it's uh, I mean
Speaker 2: they they they knew just like other people did that
Speaker 2: when the Mongols come in, the Mongols do not have
Speaker 2: a strong enough for central form of culture to uh
Speaker 2: to not be assimilated.
Speaker 3: Into Amilate Mate. They're yeah, they're they're about that life,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah. And so that started that
Speaker 2: started to to kind of stabilize. But the problem was
Speaker 2: that the uh, the the other stuff going on in
Speaker 2: the Mongol Uh Empire did not and at this time
Speaker 2: Uh Monkey Con died in twelve fifty nine, and normally
Speaker 2: this would mean that all of the would be successors
Speaker 2: are going to have to go all the way back
Speaker 2: to Carricorum and they would go through a coral tie
Speaker 2: and that was you know that, that was fine. However,
Speaker 2: Uh it didn't really work out like that. So Manke
Speaker 2: wanted his Uh, one of his brothers named Eric Boca,
Speaker 2: to take over from him and become the next Kagan
Speaker 2: and he was technically he he was technically crowned there.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Kublai held his own coral
Speaker 2: tie in China and was crowned there, and so that
Speaker 2: started the that was part of the Toluid Civil War
Speaker 2: and part of the wider Mongol Civil War. And Uh
Speaker 2: Hulegu had had been he was going to go back,
Speaker 2: but he lost a battle to the Mamelukes out of Egypt,
Speaker 2: and things weren't looking great at the time because the
Speaker 2: leader of the Golden Hoard his name was Burke, the
Speaker 2: leader of the chek At Tai Khanate who is Algu
Speaker 2: and the man Lukes had formed an alliance and it
Speaker 2: wasn't looking pretty for for Hulegu. However, that all kind
Speaker 2: of resolved itself because in twelve sixty five they all
Speaker 2: died within like three weeks.
Speaker 3: It's weird how this just happens sometimes in the medieval
Speaker 3: period because it is so much easier to die of things,
Speaker 3: so you will just kind of have these mashed casualty
Speaker 3: events essentially where it's just like, you know, it just
Speaker 3: all kind of like falls over and you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: well yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah. Kublai cut off supplies to Kara Korum
Speaker 2: Eric Boca. Eventually we drew his claim back the way
Speaker 2: and was shamed into exile and then he was killed.
Speaker 2: Kublai took over the United the vaguely United Mongol Empire
Speaker 2: in twelve sixty four, which was that role still had
Speaker 2: enough power to command everything and keep it going, and
Speaker 2: that meant that the Golden Horde and the check A
Speaker 2: Tai Khanate backed off because Kublai supported the Suns of
Speaker 2: Hillo Hulegu and uh so the Ilkanate got to uh
Speaker 2: stick around and uh yeah when that happened, that meant
Speaker 2: because uh Kublai ruled basically all of the eastern part
Speaker 2: of the United Mongol Empire, that that became the more
Speaker 2: reformist group of Mongols, as did the Ilkanate and you
Speaker 2: know the check A Tai Khanate and the Golden Horde.
Speaker 2: Uh tried to keep up with the old ways, but
Speaker 2: I mean those are fading any way, because you can't
Speaker 2: really in a state like that, at least it's not
Speaker 2: it's not really easy to do that. Yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 2: So with who Legu the Persian, the the Iranians were
Speaker 2: like they they got the guy. Whether he was like
Speaker 2: this before or he just thought it was great. Uh,
Speaker 2: they got the guy they wanted. He was viewed as
Speaker 2: despite not being Muslim, he was viewed as a good
Speaker 2: king in the model that they liked. And so he
Speaker 2: received a fatois from a Muslim cleric Ibn Tavis, you know,
Speaker 2: and it basically said a good Heathen ruler is better
Speaker 2: than an evil Muslim. When UH the normalized they normalized trade.
Speaker 2: Because Tim Muchen had been a fan of art and
Speaker 2: had forced his sons and grandsons and on down the
Speaker 2: line to receive education in the arts and stuff like that,
Speaker 2: the Hulegus generation was very into it was very into
Speaker 2: the arts. They were very into into culture. Once again,
Speaker 2: they didn't use Persian wasn't the official court language, but
Speaker 2: it was spoken, but it was the official language of
Speaker 2: high culture.
Speaker 3: Like that was Yeah, it's like the high Valerian of yeah,
Speaker 3: like whatever.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh yeah, that's just like it's it's just cool, right, like.
Speaker 3: You know, in particular in this era, we see it
Speaker 3: being thought of as kind of like a very good
Speaker 3: language for poetry.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 1: So it's like.
Speaker 3: Rather a lot of like that around the shop and
Speaker 3: like that's the vibe. Like and I think this is
Speaker 3: just sort of an important point because it does show
Speaker 3: you how fruitful these particular team could be. Like having
Speaker 3: you know, like the Mongols is not always great, but
Speaker 3: they they do have some kind of underlining, underlying appreciations
Speaker 3: of varying things. And occasionally they will force you to
Speaker 3: go to art school if you're like one of the kids,
Speaker 3: right ye, So like that's helpful. And then when they
Speaker 3: they also just like these weird little things like it's
Speaker 3: it's part of what makes them tick.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you can see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and who let you? Because the Mongols were
Speaker 2: famously like, yeah, your religion's fine, whatever. They they let
Speaker 2: the they let Islam go unhindered as for the most part,
Speaker 2: and they let the Sufis go and you know the
Speaker 2: Sufi mystics, they perform miracles, they do you know, all
Speaker 2: this sort of stuff, and uh, that is you know,
Speaker 2: that's going to continue to be infused on down the line,
Speaker 2: and that's going to be part of what becomes she
Speaker 2: Ism here in a bit. After Hulegu died, it was
Speaker 2: actually his son Abaka Khan ruled for about seventeen years
Speaker 2: and really helps solidify the empire.
Speaker 3: They side note Abaca con just makes me sound like
Speaker 3: they are like insulting cons in an anime.
Speaker 2: But it's Sunbacca Obaka Khan, Chaka Khan's sister, our brother.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, listen all the jokes we're making our bad
Speaker 3: Let's move on. Okay, wow wow.
Speaker 2: Uh. After Obaka died, there was uh, let's say, some
Speaker 2: issues for about thirteen years. Uh. One of one of
Speaker 2: these rulers was so bad that he tried to introduce
Speaker 2: paper fiat currency into a into a state that heton
Speaker 2: had had fucking uh it had a stable rule and
Speaker 2: I don't know half a millennium.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this dog dog check out this picture of a monkey.
Speaker 2: You got guys. You got guys paying in like sheep
Speaker 2: and like military service, and they're like yeah, but paper money, right,
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, I don't think, uh, I don't
Speaker 2: think that one from China's gonna make it brou But
Speaker 2: luckily the UH they got a lifeline when a guy
Speaker 2: named Gozen Cohn came to the throne in twelve ninety five,
Speaker 2: and he really was different to at least to some degree.
Speaker 2: He converted to Islam, although it was probably what we
Speaker 2: would call like a folk Islam because it was more
Speaker 2: based on like what Sufi said and was less.
Speaker 1: I'm really more spiritual than religious.
Speaker 2: Yes exactly one. Yeah, yeah, but you know, you know
Speaker 2: the Iranians did. They were like it counts. Put it
Speaker 2: on the board because Gazon just completely adopted all of
Speaker 2: the ship that the Iranians wanted to. He embraced Suphism,
Speaker 2: He took on a royal title that named Cosro the
Speaker 2: First and Iran in it total law reform. UH. He
Speaker 2: subjected land disputes to courts and stuff like that. He
Speaker 2: made UH preparations for soldier resettlement after they get out
Speaker 2: of the army because it UH, because it was so
Speaker 2: always so destabilizing. He tried to work with the more
Speaker 2: orthodox Mongols to try and get them in together with
Speaker 2: the subtle ones. And you know, during his life and
Speaker 2: the life of his son, it the Persian way just
Speaker 2: encroached on the Mongol way of life and took it
Speaker 2: over as as it is wont to do. But unfortunately
Speaker 2: for them, in thirteen thirty six, Souck where to go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so Gozen died in three or four. His son Ol
Speaker 2: Jayetu ruled for thirteen years, and then Abu Sayid ruled
Speaker 2: for another like sixteen. And by the mid thirteen thirties,
Speaker 2: when Arpicon took the throne, he was executed and the
Speaker 2: the ilkinate dissolved and a new thirty five year power
Speaker 2: vacuum opened up that dissolved into local factions again. However,
Speaker 2: the state was more stabilized at this time than it
Speaker 2: had been. All Right, now, lastly, or very close to lastie,
Speaker 2: we turned to turn to a little guy named timyir So.
Speaker 2: But before we do that, I wanted to talk about
Speaker 2: what we do know on the ground. A lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff started to clarify more in the thirteenth and
Speaker 2: fourteenth century. So tell me if you've heard stop me
Speaker 2: if you've heard this one before. So the ruler, the
Speaker 2: guy with the money and the power and the soldiers,
Speaker 2: he says to some of his lesser guys, he's like, hey,
Speaker 2: if you provide me military so servis, I will give
Speaker 2: you some land. And they were like, damn, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: I like, I like where this has said it? Okay,
Speaker 2: Like what okay? Like what do we need to do?
Speaker 2: And he's like, look, you just you keep things in line,
Speaker 2: you keep everything going, and it'll be fine. You're going
Speaker 2: to serve as tax farmers to the locals. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to pay you jack ship. All of your money
Speaker 2: is going to come from soaking the locals for money.
Speaker 2: And even if people get double or triple text will
Speaker 2: characters not my problem. And uh, this, as you might guess,
Speaker 2: led to insane exploitation, monetary exploitation of the people on
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 3: But no, you mean bad actors in my tax collecting yep, bracket.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, uh, in my bracket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2: It's more like I think, yeah, exactly. So this the peasants,
Speaker 2: they would do what what peasants did, which was some
Speaker 2: of them would try to escape and This was technically
Speaker 2: easier here because things were more spread out, and I
Speaker 2: mean you could go jump in, you could try and
Speaker 2: jump in with one of the roving Mongol bands like
Speaker 2: you know, they those did exist. You just be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm going to join a biker gang for a while. Mom,
Speaker 2: I'll see you later.
Speaker 1: She's like, Oh, that's a there's a that's a good
Speaker 1: career path son.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But there was two things happened in the
Speaker 2: fourteenth century that that kind of started to change things
Speaker 2: a little to make it a little better for the peasants.
Speaker 2: The first is that the the land grants became hereditary.
Speaker 2: And while this this is not good for the entrenching
Speaker 2: of you know, a nobility. Yeah, if you don't have
Speaker 2: a nobility, you're just subject to change every time someone else,
Speaker 2: like when that guy dies, like his son is more
Speaker 2: likely to just come in and try to keep things smooth.
Speaker 2: Then like the new guy who comes in, and then
Speaker 2: you have to figure out a whole new tax regime
Speaker 2: and what you're gonna give and how that's gonna work.
Speaker 2: And also they they because the rulers were trying to
Speaker 2: uh make the rule better, they kept giving out more
Speaker 2: and more and more parcels of land, which meant that
Speaker 2: there there were more landowners and few of them had
Speaker 2: like totally like just taken so much land under themselves,
Speaker 2: and so this made it slightly better and also made
Speaker 2: it a little easier to uh to escape. Over time,
Speaker 2: the emirs who ruled over local towns kind of became
Speaker 2: like sheriffs and then defenders because after a while, they
Speaker 2: too got tired of the Mongol raids and were like,
Speaker 2: fucking stop, leave us alone. And sometimes that worked, and
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes it didn't, but you know that that happens. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the middling sort, the craftsmen and everything like that, they
Speaker 2: started to form guilds just as just as you might
Speaker 2: do and uh and then uh in the towns they
Speaker 2: would form militia clubs, and they basically protected the commoners. Again.
Speaker 2: They they would kind of work with the emir and
Speaker 2: be like, hey, stop, you can't come and harass these
Speaker 2: people anymore. And they protected them from extreme tax collection practices.
Speaker 2: But then the big thing was that they had adopted this,
Speaker 2: they had adopted this system where in order to protect
Speaker 2: with so much land turnover going on all the time
Speaker 2: between all of these these different roving groups, and bands
Speaker 2: in order to protect the property and the money they
Speaker 2: would invest in the property, hand it over to like
Speaker 2: a Sufie lodge to be held in their name, and
Speaker 2: the Sufi lodge would hold it and they would take
Speaker 2: in the proceeds from it and manage it and manage
Speaker 2: the peasants and everything, while the landowner who's over here
Speaker 2: would reap the benefits that came up according to the
Speaker 2: contract or whatever they had done. And in this way
Speaker 2: they removed a lot of the upper strata of horse
Speaker 2: nobles their desire to ransack local lands because they had
Speaker 2: a monetary stake in the upkeep and continued production of
Speaker 2: the local lands. And of course this took like, you know,
Speaker 2: a century for it to like actually boil down to this.
Speaker 2: But over time, the peasant because they got a stabilized system,
Speaker 2: even though we can see this as a version of
Speaker 2: the it's more of the military feudal aspects than what
Speaker 2: you typically got in Europe, but the peasant. But they
Speaker 2: had to develop a separate peasant system. And in this
Speaker 2: point it developed on the back of the on the
Speaker 2: back of the Sufi lodges, which became like uh, you know,
Speaker 2: helping you know, they help people, they were hospitals, they
Speaker 2: were community centers, blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like they're pretty chill people to Sufi's you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: they do nice things.
Speaker 2: What can we say. Yeah, And because of all of
Speaker 2: these advancements, it allowed for the rise of of protest
Speaker 2: movements and millinery and sex. Because even though things were
Speaker 2: getting better, look it still fucking sucks, and people were like,
Speaker 2: when are we going to be saved? And you know,
Speaker 2: not today but maybe maybe. But about thirteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: a young he wasn't actually young, a guy named Timmyir
Speaker 2: who had been born in what is now Uzbekistan to
Speaker 2: a Turco Mongolic family. He invaded the lands of Greater Iran,
Speaker 2: and he took them very very quickly. Yes not look
Speaker 2: he he just he took Karrot, he took Bukara or
Speaker 2: Ginch the he took sammarcand Balk same thing as before,
Speaker 2: you know, just piling up bodies, piling up heads, everything
Speaker 2: like that. Immediately the people of corus On are like, hey, man,
Speaker 2: you want to be the legitimate ruler of Iran. And
Speaker 2: he's like, yes, I do.
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, love what you've done with the place. I'm
Speaker 3: just wondering just hear me out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think about the And the thing
Speaker 2: about Timirr is that, like he is the least likely
Speaker 2: one of these. The Mongols considered him short, which means
Speaker 2: he was maybe like five foot tall. He walked with
Speaker 2: an extremely noticeable limp later in life, which is I
Speaker 2: think where the name tamer Lane came comes from. It
Speaker 2: meant lame Timurror as I understand it, as I understand it.
Speaker 2: And he was also incredibly ugly, but because he had
Speaker 2: suffered like some like really debilitating scars during battle on
Speaker 2: his face or something like that. So this is the
Speaker 2: guy who comes in. He's illiterate, he's from the middle
Speaker 2: of nowhere, but the Persian Iranian cultural milieu has stretched
Speaker 2: this far, has has burgeoned out. And this guy fucking
Speaker 2: loved art, he loved science, he loved the whole deal.
Speaker 2: He is going to be responsible for the Timurid Renaissance,
Speaker 2: which is the western Central Asian version of the Italian Renaissance,
Speaker 2: although they're different in character, but.
Speaker 1: This one's real. And the Italian went in.
Speaker 2: Was when's she gonna when's she gonna say goat? I
Speaker 2: would you say goating? I say I just tossed it
Speaker 2: off the backboard for you to slam.
Speaker 1: The Renaissance isn't real. That's just universial. You've heard it
Speaker 1: all before, but it's worth saying again, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Uh, Timmy, yeah he uh, look he he is Islamic,
Speaker 2: but he's probably the same kind of folk Islamic that
Speaker 2: Gazon was. And despite not being a well versed theologian,
Speaker 2: he heavily donated to the Muslim religious elites and allowed
Speaker 2: uh Sufi and she she practices to go on. Uh.
Speaker 2: But he was also a conqueror and a lot of
Speaker 2: the cities around here were Islamic cities, and he did
Speaker 2: not care. In Delhi, Delhi is where you get the
Speaker 2: Mountain of Skulls motif, which is just.
Speaker 1: It is metal, but if you have to live through it,
Speaker 1: it's not the one.
Speaker 2: It's not yeah yeah yeah. Parts of Syria, the city
Speaker 2: of Isfahan, like they just you know. He was paradoxically
Speaker 2: defending Islam by killing a lot of Muslims for typically
Speaker 2: military reasons such as expedients. He did not seem to
Speaker 2: really have an issue with religion, and he from everywhere
Speaker 2: he conquered, from Otrar, tash samarcand all the way into
Speaker 2: Tafleece in modern day Georgia. Mousoul Baghdad. He burned Aleppo
Speaker 2: and Damascus, so he didn't take him over, and as
Speaker 2: I said, burned Delhi. This whole land. He is just
Speaker 2: taking scribes and artisans and people and he's bringing them
Speaker 2: to Samarkand because he's rebuilding it, and he's rebuilding it
Speaker 2: with all of these Persian texts, cultural texts that have
Speaker 2: been written, and he's I mean, there it said that
Speaker 2: there were thousands of artisans and scholars and theologians and astronomers,
Speaker 2: and they built all of this gorgeous astronomy equipment. And
Speaker 2: it's just you have all of this, you bring all
Speaker 2: of this culture in and when Timir died in fourteen
Speaker 2: oh five, he by his own decree, dispersed all of
Speaker 2: these people back to their lands. And so in some cases,
Speaker 2: these people had been in Samarkan for twenty ish twenty
Speaker 2: five years assimilating to this culture, learning to speak Persian.
Speaker 2: Uh Turkic was the language of the court, but Persian
Speaker 2: was the language for culture and and everything else. And
Speaker 2: you just he basically did like a twenty year study
Speaker 2: abroad program for all of these artists all of these
Speaker 2: cultural icons to go and and learn. And then when
Speaker 2: he died, he sent him back home. And of course
Speaker 2: what they did was they spread Iranian culture, Persian language
Speaker 2: with them. They they took like it's.
Speaker 3: Listen, you know, all study of broad students are are
Speaker 3: the same. You know, we're actually the sort of people
Speaker 3: who are gonna make it your problem. Like we're gonna
Speaker 3: make it your problem for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3: That like, we actually speak a couple other things.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's like a guy who comes back saying
Speaker 2: crossol instead of croissant, or yeah, I studied in Bartela.
Speaker 2: Think of the widest man ever Shut the fuck upon.
Speaker 2: It's like some guy who insist on pronouncing the silent
Speaker 2: H at the end of bulk. He's like, book, all right, man,
Speaker 2: all right, simp, settle down, big guy, Like I want
Speaker 2: your October fess in motion, Like bitch, that's great. I
Speaker 2: got drunk on my couch. What's anyway? Uh, whether he
Speaker 2: meant to or not, I can't say. But this act
Speaker 2: of sending these people out was just man. Uh it
Speaker 2: people like it.
Speaker 3: People like to move around and do new things and
Speaker 3: funk about with art. It's it's what we are born
Speaker 3: to do. If you left, let us alone, you know,
Speaker 3: That's what.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And because they fought with the Ottomans, uh, the
Speaker 2: early Ottomans and defeated them a couple of times, him
Speaker 2: defeated by Zid the I at Ankara in fourteen oh two,
Speaker 2: which sent the Ottomans into a ten year civil war.
Speaker 2: But all of these people going back to where they
Speaker 2: came from meant that they went into the Ottoman lands too,
Speaker 2: And so that's why there is a lot of Persian,
Speaker 2: a lot of Persian influence in Ottoman art from this time,
Speaker 2: and a lot of Iranian influence in the Three Gunpowder
Speaker 2: the three Gunpowder empires that are going to show up,
Speaker 2: the Ottomans, of course, the Sephaphids who take over Greater Iran,
Speaker 2: and then the the Mughals in India, and all of
Speaker 2: this spread out from there. As I said, Timur was
Speaker 2: huge into religious syncretism. They I mean, he increased charitable investments.
Speaker 2: He was uh chili.
Speaker 1: He contained multitudes, a real game of two halves, this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he contained multitudes. And as I said, you know,
Speaker 2: this is this is how the Iranian culture survives. This
Speaker 2: is how the language survives and everything like that. But
Speaker 2: on the ground, even though things have gotten better, things
Speaker 2: are still apocalyptic for these people, because like even when
Speaker 2: Timyir dies and even though his successor, Shah Rook, is
Speaker 2: very capable and rules for a long time, it's still
Speaker 2: there's still upheaval. Things are still bad for them. And
Speaker 2: so you get these uh apocalyptic religious movements that start
Speaker 2: to uh to pop up. There were the uh Sarbatids
Speaker 2: and uh they they were they had adopted the twelve
Speaker 2: over Shia philosophy, you know, the hidden Eye mom and
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff, and uh they proclaimed their
Speaker 2: leader as the Mahdi and killed some tax collectors and
Speaker 2: eventually submitted to Timyr. But uh there within the uh Nrbakshi,
Speaker 2: who were just another cult following a guy who called
Speaker 2: him called himself the Mahdi, and and it just, uh
Speaker 2: it just kept spreading out from there, the notch the
Speaker 2: notch Bandi's, like they just had these groups coming up,
Speaker 2: and as this happens, there is going to be one
Speaker 2: of these groups that uh, you know, the Sufi's, they
Speaker 2: they start spreading everything like that. And there was a
Speaker 2: city called Ardabilt that is on the western coast of
Speaker 2: the Caspian Sea, and it started to become a popular
Speaker 2: trading hub. And eventually U a contemporary of Timur whose
Speaker 2: name was oh, fuck, I lost his name, the name
Speaker 2: the namesake of the Sapphaphis, whose name I am completely
Speaker 2: fucking uh forgetting right now. Uh, I don't remember. But
Speaker 2: he was a sheikh and Uh. They thought he was
Speaker 2: a cool guy. They thought he was fine. But years
Speaker 2: later his grandson isma Il would become a messianic figure.
Speaker 2: He would become uh. He would become the Mahdi to
Speaker 2: a lot of people. His thing was specifically the worship
Speaker 2: of of Allah through Ali, the cousin of Mohammed and
Speaker 2: brief ruler of the Caliphate, the rushed in Caliphate and Uh.
Speaker 2: Then he also convinced a lot of Turkic horse warlords
Speaker 2: UH that his uh he, he was their savior. They
Speaker 2: were called the quiz Bolash. And it's so much.
Speaker 3: Harder to convince people that you're their savior now, Like
Speaker 3: you have to go find Mormons in.
Speaker 1: Order to do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I can't, Yeah, you can't. Yeah. And
Speaker 2: then they rode back in and UH broke apart what
Speaker 2: was left of the Timurid empire because it was it
Speaker 2: was falling, it was not built to last necessarily, and
Speaker 2: it started to crack apart. The staff of it took over.
Speaker 2: Uh instituted the the Shia sect. Basically, it's believed basically
Speaker 2: as a way to instead of having personal rule, which
Speaker 2: is what they had been trying for so long, where
Speaker 2: like you you worshiped this one or this this one
Speaker 2: guy is the most important guy in the world, which
Speaker 2: is fine while he's alive, and even if he has
Speaker 2: like a kid who's good at it, But when that
Speaker 2: goes away, what are you left with?
Speaker 1: And most of them do not have kids who are
Speaker 1: good at it?
Speaker 3: Right, I'm gonna level with you, like most of these
Speaker 3: kids are just garbage.
Speaker 2: You know. He had to go through like six of
Speaker 2: Gazon's or six of Hulegu's sons to get through like
Speaker 2: uh to find to find Gazon, and Uh, oh I
Speaker 2: should have said with Gazon. Uh. The famed Islamic scholar, historian,
Speaker 2: polymath Rashada Dean he was Uh. He was Gazon's advisor,
Speaker 2: and many believe that a lot of Gazon's policies were
Speaker 2: just He was just a mouthpiece for Rada. A Dean
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. And uh, since Rashada Deen
Speaker 2: was he come from the Iranian milieu. Uh, that was
Speaker 2: that that really showed up in a lot of his works. Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the empire, the Timurid Empire was not long for the world,
Speaker 2: and about fifteen oh one it started to collapse and
Speaker 2: the Sapphaphids take took over and they became a gunpowder empire.
Speaker 2: Eventually they were able to massage their histories away from
Speaker 2: isthma Ill uh basically claiming to be like the second Coming. Uh,
Speaker 2: and they were like, yeah, less of that and more of.
Speaker 1: Literally anything else.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, more more of the like moving towards what
Speaker 2: we would what we can start to see is more
Speaker 2: standard practices of Shia Islam. And of course this would
Speaker 2: lead to repression and they would do their own repressions
Speaker 2: and the Sunnies attacked them. But for a while there
Speaker 2: there was kind of a melding between Sunni and Shia
Speaker 2: there for a bit. But yeah, it's that is that's
Speaker 2: a run in the Middle Ages and in the ancient
Speaker 2: era for that matter.
Speaker 3: We get that's a lot, you know, we get we
Speaker 3: we I think that they are one of the ones
Speaker 3: where it's difficult to talk about them before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, such.
Speaker 2: A fifteen hundred Yeah, that's I mean, that's fifteen hundred
Speaker 2: years right there, from five point fifty to five fifty
Speaker 2: CE to fifteen hundred. Uh sorry, five fifty BCE to
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred CE. It's like, uh, our two thousand years
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. They can't add it's uh, you know.
Speaker 1: Really it's a land of contrasts.
Speaker 2: It's I find it so interesting that it did survive
Speaker 2: and that like now, like when when I remember when
Speaker 2: I was a kid and you would read books and
Speaker 2: they would refer to everything in the East, all of
Speaker 2: that culture as Persia. It was Persia, this Persian Persian,
Speaker 2: Persian Persian Persian Persian Persian, and now was a lot
Speaker 2: of that stuff of Persian Iranian descent. Yeah, absolutely, but
Speaker 2: Persian became like a buzzword for Islamic art, culture, math, science,
Speaker 2: everything for a long time, and even to the point
Speaker 2: like where when we and Eleanor were kids, and I
Speaker 2: mean people still do it now to some degree, although
Speaker 2: you know, thankfully we don't have as much or as
Speaker 2: pervasive Orientalism as we used to. And you're you might
Speaker 2: roll your eyes and be like, oh, it's really bad, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's not near. Yeah. Used to we would lose
Speaker 2: like our entire followership for doing a podcasts where we're like, yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: the Iranians were good. We're good people. You know.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, you you love you love Islam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys don't want to have lived through the
Speaker 2: aftermath of nine to eleven. But it is not pretty anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just the culture survived, and I mean the people
Speaker 2: got by and just like in everywhere else so we
Speaker 2: talk about everywhere else where, we talk about you know,
Speaker 2: the land Management series, we talk about the battles of
Speaker 2: kings and emperors and everything like that. It affects, you know,
Speaker 2: the people on the ground too, and it did want
Speaker 2: to try and give a little bit of flavor for that.
Speaker 2: I know that that that people want more, but it's
Speaker 2: just it's really hard and we really only get clarity
Speaker 2: on it around beginning around thirteen hundred. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: for what it was a lot of.
Speaker 3: People were just running through there making skull mountains, like
Speaker 3: I don't know, what's yeah, you know it's not that's
Speaker 3: bad for source survival, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's the same. It's the
Speaker 2: same reason that we that source survival for the very
Speaker 2: end of the Roman period in Europe is terrible because
Speaker 2: once the Goths visit, Goths, vandals, uh Frank's name it,
Speaker 2: German I, whoever the fuck it is, once all of
Speaker 2: them come through repeatedly and burn stuff, and you're just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we don't know how they may whine back then because
Speaker 2: all of the everything's lost, like they took it and
Speaker 2: they broke it. Like I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's just still part of a rich chapstery, right,
Speaker 3: Like that's.
Speaker 2: What's going on now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to make peace with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I mean would if you went back in
Speaker 2: time and are somehow able to like make this all
Speaker 2: make sense if you told Cyrus the Great that this
Speaker 2: is what's going to happen, Like, would he think it
Speaker 2: was worth it? I mean maybe, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 2: he would have been so offended by like, you know,
Speaker 2: by the idea of religious unitarian religious belief, you know,
Speaker 2: no pluralism and stuff like that. Maybe he would have
Speaker 2: been mortally offended by that. But then again, like I mean,
Speaker 2: you know a lot of the people who lived the
Speaker 2: generation before, you know, before us they don't approve of
Speaker 2: the shit we do either, Some like who cares the
Speaker 2: dead sit and sitting over all the living? You know.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it did survive. A part of Cyrus the Great,
Speaker 2: a part of the Meads, a part of the Elamites.
Speaker 2: All of that survived down to down to today. We
Speaker 2: still see Persian is still spoken. It's it's an incredibly
Speaker 2: popular language. It's still spoken in a lot of places,
Speaker 2: especially Orn And it's like, yeah, there it is, there's
Speaker 2: that there. We have this culture. We have these these
Speaker 2: old medieval uh lion winged lion motifs that look awful,
Speaker 2: similar to the winged lion motifs from the Caymanid era
Speaker 2: that you know, we're found in places like Susa, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like it's there. You just you gotta you know,
Speaker 2: you just gotta follow it. And uh yeah, that's I
Speaker 2: don't know, that's pre modern Iran. I hope you all
Speaker 2: enjoyed it. I hope it was fun. Uh. I hope
Speaker 2: Iran continues their steadfast defense of themselves nowadays. Uh in
Speaker 2: what's happening right now? Yeah, I don't know what else
Speaker 2: to say. I hope, uh hope you'll enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: I hope you're all fucking happy with this.
Speaker 2: Is all your fault.
Speaker 1: No, look what you made, Luke do.
Speaker 2: No. I had a lot of fun. I had a
Speaker 2: lot of fun doing this, and I have learned so much.
Speaker 2: I think Derias's like ultra woke uh inscription will always
Speaker 2: stick with me because it's just so there's something so
Speaker 2: adorable to me about like a guy who like ransacks
Speaker 2: from Egypt to fucking India and is just like it
Speaker 2: was probably a usurper in the first place. And he's like,
Speaker 2: I built the this, this monument I built with all
Speaker 2: of my woke staff. There's that guy over there and
Speaker 2: he's from Persia and that guy's Farsi and that, and
Speaker 2: you're just like, okay, man, we really do fucking contain.
Speaker 1: It's dude, I.
Speaker 2: Conquered Egypt so I can have their Stonemasons build the
Speaker 2: legs on this thing. And you're like, oh, okay, sure, sure, yeah, okay, anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: things were better when we didn't have nationalism and you
Speaker 2: could just do stuff, just be like yeah, that's fine,
Speaker 2: Like we're like you, and you could tell that it's
Speaker 2: not nationalism because the people at the end of this
Speaker 2: are in no way directly linked to like Cyrus, except
Speaker 2: they inhabit broadly, in habit the same part of the world,
Speaker 2: and they speak a language downstream of of what of
Speaker 2: what he would have spoken like, they're not the but
Speaker 2: like that didn't matter, because it wasn't that you had
Speaker 2: to live in near Mesopotamia. It was that you adopted
Speaker 2: the Persian language and you liked cool art motifs or
Speaker 2: for sure. Anyway, thank y'all for listening. Folks. Uh man,
Speaker 2: I am gluttonous as hell for the lunch I'm about
Speaker 2: to have. Anyway, y'all, thank you. Enjoy the bonus that
Speaker 2: we unlock next episode. I am going back to Denver
Speaker 2: for the first time in seven years, going home, go
Speaker 2: not home, but going back to the place I wish
Speaker 2: I still lived, and Mike Mike to get get to
Speaker 2: go see the Colorado Avalanche. Should Okay, we're in the
Speaker 2: playoffs if they make if the series makes it the
Speaker 2: game five, but yeah, we'll see. Uh that'll be cool
Speaker 2: for me, eleanor what's going on with you?
Speaker 1: Ah, great question.
Speaker 3: I am in the middle of fucking festival season, so
Speaker 3: I am legally insane and I'm not allowed to make
Speaker 3: any legal choices for myself. If you are in London
Speaker 3: on Monday, there's a couple of tickets left for my
Speaker 3: gig with Kate Lister, the Betook the Sheets Live show.
Speaker 3: If you want to come check us out for that.
Speaker 3: It's at Caddagan Hall or by Slone Square.
Speaker 1: If you search for Book TwixT the Sheets Live you'll
Speaker 1: find that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's the major thing that's going on this week. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm just in book hell while trying to
Speaker 3: run around and make a bunch of TV shows. So listen,
Speaker 3: everything is fine. It's gonna be fine, but it's gonna
Speaker 3: be finer in September, but we'll be okay.
Speaker 1: Oh, I guess the.
Speaker 3: Other thing that I got coming up is if you
Speaker 3: do if you are in the UK and you do
Speaker 3: want to go to Chalk Valley, I'm getting like fucking
Speaker 3: four talks there, so come along to those. Although I
Speaker 3: just don't think that we're I don't think our listeners
Speaker 3: are Chalk Valley demographic.
Speaker 1: I mean that as a compliment. It just seem like, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, yeah, Well you can find me Lucas
Speaker 2: Amazing talking about whatever. You can find my old show
Speaker 2: People's Sisterville Republic. If you want to hear me yapping
Speaker 2: about Star Wars anyway, folks, that's gonna do it for
Speaker 2: us today. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see
Speaker 2: you next time.
Speaker 1: Bye. Oh wait wait wait wait no, keep it sloppy.