WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.879 Hello everybody, ladies, gentlemen, brothers, sisters, comrades, friends. Got a 2 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.400 bit of a special episode for you guys here, because 3 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.919 even though I would like it if this was true, 4 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:17.519 the world keeps moving, things keep changing, things keep happening 5 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:22.559 no matter what my podcast schedule is. So in light 6 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.160 of the recent assassination of political pundit Charlie Kirk and 7 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:31.960 growing discussion about the rise of political violence, I thought 8 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:34.880 it would be necessary to have a bit of a 9 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.799 breakdown of what political violence is, what its deeper meaning is, 10 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.600 and what maybe Americans, my fellow Americans, don't fully appreciate 11 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:51.880 about it, and there really isn't anything good about political violence. 12 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:53.479 I think that's kind of a spoiler alert for this 13 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:57.280 conversation that you're about to hear. But I don't think 14 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.600 it could have been made clearer by anybody other than 15 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.679 two of my best pals in the podcasting world, that 16 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.040 is Christops and Threeson's of the Eastern Border Podcast and 17 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:10.560 Danielleblelly of History on Fire, both of whom have talked 18 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.359 about this. Danielle very recently. He couldn't have timed his 19 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:17.319 most recent episode of History on Fire better, but also 20 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:20.120 Chris stops in a lot of his you know, coverage 21 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.840 of the war in Ukraine and everything giving him particular 22 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.040 insight too, political violence in a lot of ways too. 23 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.079 So anyway, I'm showing everything that normally comes before these 24 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:31.879 episodes because I want to get this out as soon 25 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:36.000 as possible. I really appreciate everybody who supports the show 26 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:39.480 and Patreon sub stack everywhere, so please consider going there 27 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:44.120 to support this show. History Impossible dot subsec dot com 28 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:46.640 and Patreon dot com slash history Impossible. If you like 29 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.760 what's done over here. Now I'll shut up, I will 30 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:55.000 get us going and please enjoy. As dark as this 31 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.879 topic is, this conversation I had with Daniellebalelli and Kristeps 32 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:03.599 and reasons. 33 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:02.959 Well, let me to tell you what you would have 34 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:06.040 seen and heard. I will not be pleasant listening if 35 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:08.000 you're at lunch or if you have no appetite. Now 36 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:15.479 is a good time to switch off the radio. An 37 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.719 ancestor of my main change, if you eliminate the impossible, 38 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.080 whatever remains, however. 39 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:25.439 Improbable, evation Russian BANDI out of it. 40 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:29.919 You don't the one who knows that laves by the 41 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:31.120 thousand year. 42 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.360 I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace 43 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:37.599 is inside. I don't see the laughing dream. 44 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:39.439 I feel an laughing night now. 45 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:45.960 I pray if we. 46 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.560 Hear for asues to Gail, if we care were asued 47 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.639 to kill. Some say the world. 48 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:52.360 Will end in fire. 49 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:53.479 Some stay Anie. 50 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:56.439 From what I have tasted of desire, I hold of 51 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:57.599 those of flavor fire. 52 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.080 But if it had to perish twice, I think I 53 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:02.879 know him of hate to. 54 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.479 Say that for destruction, ice is also great and looks sufficed. 55 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:16.039 This is History Impossible. 56 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:26.759 With Chris Stops Andresan's and Danielle Bolelli. I had to 57 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:28.879 do the accents, but I'm really happy to have both 58 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:31.240 of you guys here. This is a first uh though 59 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:34.520 funny enough for people listening to History Impossible. They just 60 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:36.479 heard your voice, Danielle, because I just put out our 61 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.919 episode we recorded this summer just on a lark about 62 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.360 the typing rebellion and Protestantism and all that stuff, and 63 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:48.319 that that opens up a whole you know thing that we, 64 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:50.599 you know, don't have to get into now. Because I 65 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:53.840 want to talk to Chris tops about Russian Christianity sometime 66 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:55.919 in the near future, because that seems really like a 67 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.840 good rabbit hole go run. Yeah, I know, I already 68 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:00.280 just I just did it doing. 69 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.039 I'm doing my PhD on that stuff because Russian order, 70 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:07.400 the duxx weirdness is messed up. It nice to be here. 71 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:12.599 Yes, thank you both for coming. And we're obviously delving 72 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:18.360 into what this past week has been in the United States. 73 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:21.360 But I kind of wanted to broaden the discussion and 74 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:23.839 I wanted to talk to, you know, two of my 75 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:27.959 pals who Danielle is an American, but who both have 76 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:32.639 a background that is decidedly not American and have perspectives 77 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.600 that I think Americans are in sore need of right now. 78 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:39.319 I just wanted to start out just to give some 79 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.240 sort of overall context of what is going on. I 80 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:43.600 have a couple of quotes I want to read to 81 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:45.720 you guys, and then I'll just let you respond to those, 82 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.560 and you know, just you know, give your perspectives on 83 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:54.600 everything that's happened with particularly with the assassination of Charlie Kirk, 84 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.560 which I believe has been I don't know, almost a week. 85 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.120 I actually can't I don't even and yeah it's been 86 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.040 over a week now, it's been about a week. But anyway, 87 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.680 I want to give you get your guys immediate reactions, 88 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:08.399 but also give you a couple of quotes. And the 89 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:12.439 first one comes from, of all people, our friend Leon Trotsky. 90 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.759 And I just got done reading his book Revolution Betrayed, 91 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:20.040 and actually it was for school, and there was a 92 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.360 line in it that just struck me that I just 93 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:25.639 want to read out loud. Here. Individual terror is a 94 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:30.079 weapon of impatient or despairing individuals, belonging most frequently to 95 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.240 the younger generation. But as was the case in Czaras times, 96 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:38.759 political murders are unmistakable symptoms of a stormy atmosphere and 97 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:44.319 foretell the beginning of an open political crisis. So that's heavy, obviously, 98 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.519 And yeah, I think we want to like put a 99 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:50.000 pin in that one. And then I want to read 100 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:53.879 this summary that was written by the writer Catherine Brodsky 101 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:57.519 on her sub stack Random Minds that I think just 102 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.519 really helps give us a bigger context of what's been 103 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:05.120 going on. So what she wrote was the following President 104 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.720 Trump's ear was grazed by a bullet as he narrowly 105 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.360 escaped with his life at a rally. He was targeted 106 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:15.040 again soon after. United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson was assassinated, 107 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.560 but Luigi Mangioni arrested for his murder. A gunman killed 108 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:21.240 two Embassy of Israel's staff members who were leaving a 109 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:24.920 Young Diplomat reception at the Jewish Museum in Washington, DC. 110 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.439 Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's mansion was broken into and set 111 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.120 on fire. Tesla vehicles have been torched, and bullets as 112 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.920 well as molotov cocktails were aimed at the company's showrooms. 113 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.199 Two Minnesota state lawmakers were shot in their homes. Side note, 114 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:42.439 that happened the day before I went back to Minnesota 115 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:46.720 this past summer, so that was interesting. Continuing in March, 116 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.000 a fire was set to the entryway of the New 117 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:53.519 Mexico Republican Party headquarters. BD Pellots and gunshots were fired 118 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.879 at the front door and window of the Democratic National 119 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.079 Committee office in Arizona on three separate occasions. Last fall, 120 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.639 Anti Pelosi's husband Paul, was bludgeoned with a hammer in 121 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:05.120 his home. His attacker admitted he had planned to hold 122 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:10.040 the speaker hostage to quote end government corruption unquote. Individuals, 123 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.680 including some extremist groups, stormed the US capital protest to 124 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.680 twenty twenty presidential election results. Eric Komer, an executive at 125 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.720 Dominion Voting Systems, was forced into hiding after his home 126 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:23.600 address was published and a million dollar bounty was put 127 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:28.279 on his head. And now the successful assassination of political 128 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:32.319 commentator Charlie Kirk. And then what he sort of concludes 129 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:35.439 is this is not just a list of isolated incidents. 130 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:38.879 And I am inclined to agree with that. And she 131 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:40.920 didn't even include everything that I would have included on 132 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.680 that list, which included the was about three months of 133 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:48.079 rioting in twenty twenty, which I think was political but 134 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:49.600 also had to do with COVID, so it's a little 135 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.079 more complicated. But then you had other more explicitly political 136 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:57.079 events like the attempted an aborted assassination of Supreme Court 137 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:00.639 Justice Brett Kavanaugh, and a number of other things. So 138 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.319 I think the picture is pretty clear, especially when you 139 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:08.160 think about that quote from Trotsky and what Catherine said 140 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.439 at the end there, which is these are not isolated incidents. 141 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:13.439 We're living in a time of it seems to be 142 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.480 political violence in the United States at a level that 143 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.439 we just have not seen, at least in my lifetime. 144 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.240 And yeah, I mean, I actually don't even think it 145 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.399 was in you know, your lifetime, Danielle, and you're the 146 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:30.240 elderly man here. So but yeah, we we have a 147 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:34.679 very serious time in this country, and I think that 148 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:38.159 getting your guys' perspective is really important. But I do 149 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:39.639 want to let you respond to everything I just gave 150 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:40.879 you there, because that was a lot. 151 00:08:40.759 --> 00:08:43.440 Well for me. This whole thing comes in addition to 152 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.720 the fact that despite all the drones arriving here, which 153 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:48.639 is in my mind as well. In addition to that, 154 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.279 today we found out that it has been like a 155 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.039 crash drone in Latvia as well, which is just what 156 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.600 that was eating on the train. So along all this stuff, Yeah, 157 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:00.360 it's kind of fun for us over here. It's kind 158 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:02.840 of scary that you guys are still our biggest ally 159 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.120 and then our times when we need the most to 160 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.360 rely on you. You know, this is the point where, 161 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.240 especially here in the Baltics, we feel threatened every day 162 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.960 and then you know, you look at the United States 163 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.480 to be sort of to take on this role of 164 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.720 actually you know, making things in order to as a 165 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:20.519 we used to look at you as a beacon of 166 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:22.480 hope in a way of stability that you guys got 167 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.159 it made and everything. And now now when I when 168 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.799 I read my news and it's like, oh, lookie, we're 169 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:29.519 living in a dangerous deditory. And then I switch over 170 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:34.200 to foty news and I'm like, again, something weird happening. Yeah, 171 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.519 it doesn't. It's really it's really lowers at least here, 172 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.080 it lowers the the idea of it really lowers the 173 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.120 image of the United States in a way in the 174 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:47.559 sense that over here, a lot of people here, not 175 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:49.799 not just here laughing, but in Europe in general since 176 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.080 over here. And also but the person who if something 177 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:53.679 happens in the United States, I'm the one that gets 178 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:58.120 all the questions because I'm weirdly enough, they know, not 179 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.840 many people have have ways to speak with American people, 180 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:02.960 and they're asking me, what's what's going on? Because people 181 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.600 are just genuinely scared. And this is because of what's 182 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.879 happening across, you know, on the other side of the planet. 183 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.159 And the more this happens, the less we feel like 184 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.480 the less we feel like this this whole global system 185 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.759 is working because you know, EU is very good at 186 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.440 expressing deep concern and as much as you know, as 187 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:21.399 much as people might might not like it, you guys 188 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:23.159 are the ones who kick in the door and get 189 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.080 stuff done right and right now it seems that you 190 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.279 can't really get stuff done instead of your own place. 191 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.799 So we're looking with with a lot of distress going on. 192 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.159 We don't like people here, don't understand the intricacies of 193 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.080 of your internal politics and why it's happening. But everyone 194 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:40.320 here at least has the sense that what I want 195 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.080 to give you this Dutipian perspective of today, the fact 196 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:47.360 that something's broken in there. Like you you you, it 197 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.759 seems it feels like you've got you've always had at 198 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:52.200 least over here. Whenever the United States have had some issues, 199 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.000 it has always been this idea that, oh, you have institutions, 200 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.000 you have institutions, do you know what you know was 201 00:10:58.039 --> 00:10:58.360 going on? 202 00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:58.679 Yet? 203 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.840 You know something crazy you might happen. But on the 204 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.279 other hand, you have these institutions, you know what, you 205 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.840 know what you're doing. You like you're going to selve 206 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.039 this self through the power of institutions, through the power 207 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:11.279 off here democracy, all this, all this stuff, and right 208 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.960 now that that's feeling is imrolling here and it doesn't 209 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.320 And and to be to be honest, well that's that's 210 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.480 what that gives me personally all as well, and a 211 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:21.960 lot of people around in my idea, a lot of dreads, 212 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.919 because you know, we've used to, we've actually used to 213 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.440 the United States being the way that you portray yourselves 214 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.320 as in your pr segments. So that's how I want 215 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:30.919 to want to put it. 216 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.279 I spell what And I was on your show very recently. 217 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:36.440 I think we spoke only a couple of days ago 218 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.480 as of this recording, and I use the phrase that 219 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:44.320 I still stand by that when talking to you and 220 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:46.799 anybody else who's not living in this country, even like 221 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:51.679 Canadians at this point. But it's just embarrassing, Like that's 222 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.399 the that's the feeling I get, is just feeling embarrassed 223 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:57.720 by by this dysfunction. 224 00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:59.519 On the on the bride on the bright side, on 225 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:01.639 the bright side can tell you the at least our politicians, 226 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:06.039 especially those who really work with American people, they're they're like, 227 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.519 we still have faith that you can make that you'll 228 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.039 fix it somehow. We don't know how, but you'll manage 229 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:13.000 we hope. 230 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:15.120 I think Danielle and I are both a little more 231 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.399 pessimistic about that. But at the same time, yeah, and Danielle, 232 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.519 I want to get your perspective, because you have a 233 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.360 different one, which is and I kind of wanted to 234 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.480 throw in the whole feeling of embarrassment too, because you 235 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.799 have the perspective of somebody who did come here and 236 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.039 became an American, you know, so, and that's you know, 237 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:32.200 that's a whole other kind of aspect, and I think 238 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:36.720 that requires a level of optimism that I think people 239 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:40.360 who are born here are multiple generations back Americans tend 240 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:42.200 to take for granted a lot of the time. Every 241 00:12:42.200 --> 00:12:46.080 immigrant I've ever met is always far more positive on 242 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.840 the American project and the American future and everything I 243 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.799 think than people who actually live here. But I'm want 244 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:53.440 to let you respond to all that too. 245 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:59.039 No, I've never been I always thought it was crap. Yeah. No, 246 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.080 He's just certain things that are fantastic about you us, 247 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.159 But there are also things that are absolutely atrocios and 248 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.480 always wear Right now, the atrocious ones are rising in 249 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.679 power and intensity and all of it. I think, like, 250 00:13:12.759 --> 00:13:15.159 for me, it's different. It's not that I come from 251 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.919 a sht place and I came to us and go, oh, 252 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.360 this is fantastic. Is I come from a shit place 253 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.480 knowing that I was trading some sit for different kinds 254 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:26.159 of shit. You know, that's the trade, that's part of 255 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.039 the deal I was. You know, Italy was atrocios for 256 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:31.000 a lot of reasons. 257 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.480 You want to get into some of those too, yeahs 258 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.480 is Atrocio was atrocious for a lot of reasons. 259 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.559 Now is atrocious for a lot more reasons. So I think, 260 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:44.720 like my general view is never particularly rosy when it 261 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.679 comes to politics. When it comes to other things, Yeah, absolutely, 262 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:51.279 there are so many things about American culture that I've enjoyed, 263 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:56.200 American music and cinema and creativity and certain attitudes that 264 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.039 I really really like. So it's not an anti American 265 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:03.759 thing by any stretcher imagination, but definitely not even close 266 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:06.159 to a rosiview, particularly of the politics. 267 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:09.440 Yeah. Yeah, Well, and you came here, if I remember, 268 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.399 right in the early nineties, right, that's when you immigrated, 269 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.879 So you came actually at a pretty interesting time in 270 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.679 that respect. That kind of gives us little context about 271 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:20.639 what's going on now in terms of the rise of 272 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.879 political violence, because I do think there's something to the 273 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.200 idea that what we're going through right now is a 274 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.200 little bit unique, a little bit new, But it's also 275 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.519 not because in the early nineties. I mean nineteen ninety two. 276 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:34.000 You have Ruby Ridge, then you have Waco, then you 277 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:37.039 have the Oklahoma City bombing, and I actually forgot the 278 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.159 first World Trade Center bombing. I mean, these things were 279 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:42.120 I'm very intense. 280 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:45.799 Well I'm studying with I'm studying for not being educated. Well, sure, 281 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.799 but what's Ruby Ridge? I have not heard of that one. 282 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:48.960 I don't know what. I don't know. 283 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.399 That's a separate podcast, I think because it's a very 284 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.480 complicated story involving this family that was essentially a sort 285 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.519 of they weren't a militia, that they were a separatist family. 286 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.080 They wanted to get out of the you know, out 287 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:06.679 of the purview of the federal government and up or 288 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:11.039 something up there. I am not clear. Maybe Danielle knows. 289 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:13.080 I didn't expect to be talking about Ruby Ridge. 290 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:15.919 Talking about like I got the general idea about what 291 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.399 that was because I remember the standoff thing where we're 292 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:21.600 at yes by sniper. Yeah, I've seen a documentary on 293 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:23.000 that that just didn't nize by name. 294 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.159 Thank you, okay, okay, Well yeah, And that's what I'm 295 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:27.240 saying is that the nineties had I mean, people have 296 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:29.679 been especially lately talking about the nineties in a very 297 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.600 rosy way, and you know, yeah, there was a lot 298 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:33.320 of prosperity. It was the last time that we had 299 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:34.960 a budget surplus, So I guess if you want to 300 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:36.519 look at it that way, that was a good time. 301 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.559 And you know, all things considered, Clinton wasn't the worst president, 302 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.039 but yeah, it was. There was violence. 303 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:42.279 Then. 304 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.039 There was obviously violence in the two thousands. That was 305 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.080 the you know era of you know jih hottest terror 306 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:51.039 both you know that happened and that we thwarted and 307 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.440 were terrified of. But you know, at the same time, 308 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:57.600 you know, there was late sixties, early seventies, you know, 309 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.720 terrorist violence by leftist groups like the Weather Underground and 310 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.000 the Cymbinese Liberation Army. And then you go back even further, 311 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.240 you have you know, the eighteen seventies to the nineteen 312 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.440 hundred's with all the you know, bombings and assassinations that happened. 313 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:11.519 Then I think we had am I getting this right? 314 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:14.000 I think we fact, we had like two assassinations of 315 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.759 presidents and multiple attempts during that time. And then if 316 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.440 you really want to get heavy, we had the Civil 317 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.600 War and everything led up to that. So political violence 318 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.200 is kind of a normal thing in a US history, 319 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.639 but in that like I said, it doesn't feel different. 320 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:34.600 But with this particular time, with the Charlie Kirk assassination, 321 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.159 it does feel like a lot of people believe and 322 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:39.840 I can't help but feel it myself to a certain 323 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:43.759 degree that a different line has been crossed. But I 324 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.320 guess I don't want to overstate things, so I just 325 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.919 have to ask, from your guys' perspective, to what extent 326 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.240 do you think that or maybe even just feel that 327 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:56.080 we in the United States, and maybe even in the 328 00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.519 Western world more broadly, are in a new era of 329 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:00.840 political violence. Christops, you and I talked about this a 330 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.399 fair bit, and I think for you it's obvious that 331 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.240 you know, it's you know, things have escalated a lot, 332 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.400 especially in your neck of the woods. But I'm trying 333 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.000 to think about this more broadly, so I'm going to 334 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.519 let you guys sort of ruminate on that a bit, 335 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.119 like what to a new era? 336 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:20.799 Before Christa's jump Jean just one please was in Idaho. 337 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:23.759 Idaho got and. 338 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:25.400 And the number of presidents assassinated was. 339 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.960 Four four yeah in total. Yeah, well, yeah, nineteenth century 340 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:30.799 was particularly bad. 341 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:31.160 Yeah. 342 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:41.039 Colin Garfield I was thinking of Garfield and McKinley, Yeah, exactly, 343 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.720 and that and they tried with Ford to uh, at 344 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.799 least one member of the Manson family tried to kill 345 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:50.279 Ford squeaky from So yeah, a lot of assassination attempts. 346 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.319 I mean, you really want to add that to the list. 347 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.400 There's you know, there was people on the White House 348 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:59.640 lawn during Clinton, Obama and Trump administrations. I want to say, 349 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.359 but don't quote me on that. I might be remembering wrong. 350 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:04.920 But anyway, I want to let you guys sort of 351 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.160 get I want to get your perspective on what you 352 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.599 think about this potentially new era of political violence or 353 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.880 maybe an idea that it's not a new era, maybe 354 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:15.279 it's just more of the same. I just want to 355 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:16.640 get your guys' perspective on that. 356 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.200 Well, I think, well, I want to just be quick 357 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.160 about this because I want to hear Danielli's opinion more 358 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:22.880 than mine, because I think he is more to say. 359 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.480 But I feel like this isn't this isn't much so 360 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.640 much of a new era as of people to people 361 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.400 have just you know, remembering the good old, good old, 362 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.279 forgotten things from the past, so to speak, in the 363 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:39.759 sense that if previously, previously, we previously we had a 364 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.359 lot of political violence all over the place in Europe, 365 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.319 in everywhere basically, and currently what we're seeing now is 366 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.680 just well, there there were a bunch of good times 367 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:54.079 where people were not solving their problems with such political violence. 368 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.279 But right now, you know, we've we've been through a 369 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:01.000 lot of stress stressed, stressful period of events COVID and everything, 370 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:03.519 and now well the memories are just coming back and 371 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.119 people are just remembering how this is going. For example, 372 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.599 like we also didn't have a lot of that stuff 373 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.160 happening here but recently, because it's a diversity. If you 374 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.720 remember the revolution of nineteen oh five that happened in Russia, 375 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.039 well the bloodiest parts of that happened here in Latvia. 376 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.279 And after that, for example, you got Peter the Painted 377 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.359 in London doing shootings there, almost shot Winston Churchill. By 378 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.480 the way. Interestingly enough, another person that was important for 379 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.519 this fact was Edward Leitzkalnen, the guy who built Coral 380 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:31.119 Castle in Florida. He was also a part of those things. 381 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.559 He shot a baron that he emigrated there. It's just 382 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:38.440 that political violence to such a scale in the United States, 383 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.640 I feel well, it's always happened in the waves, and 384 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.720 I think we're you know, the very cliche statement that 385 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.119 history does not repeat itself, but it's sometimes rhymes. Well 386 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.559 right now when in the rhymey period, I just I 387 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.440 feel like it it's because the violence hasn't gone anywhere. 388 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.400 It's always been there, just under the hood and just 389 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.680 you know, brewing up and now with all the stresses happening, 390 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:01.000 well the people people, you know, when people start to 391 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.480 feel very desperate about their lives and everything, and then 392 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.519 they see this is some sort of solution, as I presume, 393 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.160 that's how I feel about it, certainly. 394 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:09.400 Sure. 395 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.559 Yeah, And Danielle, I wanted your perspective on this too well. Also, 396 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.119 I want to highlight that another part of your perspective 397 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:19.079 that's so interesting, and you fast tracked this episode you 398 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.839 were working on on the years of Lead in Italy, 399 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.240 which unfortunately you could not have planned. I'm saying this 400 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:29.359 in big Air quotes her better time to put out 401 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.480