Speaker 1: This is a podcast from Minute Media.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't
Be Serious Podcast. We are back again with our friends
Brad and Jeff from the Film By Podcast, ready to
sync our teeth into some nasty, nasty sharky goo called
Jaws The Revenge.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and say it. Merry Christmas. Yes, yes,
thank you, it's another Christmas movie.
Speaker 4: Hey, before we move on, this is sort of completing
our series on the summer of nineteen eighty seven. These
movies and albums are thirty five years old. So we've
gone through White Snake nineteen eighty seven, We've gone through
Motley Crue, Girls, Girls Girls, we did RoboCop and Predator,
and now today we are comparing two of the worst
movies of the nineteen eighties just happened to be released
within a month of each other. Can eighty seven Superman
for the Question for Piece and Jaws don't call it
for the Revenge.
Speaker 2: It's very questionable as to whether they even consider Jaws
three like is do they just disregard it for this
movie or do we think that there's been a massive change.
Speaker 5: I think they disregard it and it's Quaid was older
than he was.
Speaker 3: And he was also an engineer for Sea World. He
was not a marine biologist, so I can always do
a career change. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: My understanding is that this is one of those situations,
and we have this happening all the time in Hollywood
now where we just ignore several sequels and we do
the true quote unquote sequel to an original. This is
considered Jaws three as far as the you know, the
studio is concerned.
Speaker 4: Okay, before we move on to Jaws four, tell me
your opinions on Jaws three.
Speaker 5: I enjoy Jaws three if you take away the fact
that they're Brodie's I think you just have a good
shark movie. There's no you know, it's just a story
about a shark, you know, attacking SeaWorld, and it's it's
really kind of cool. The acting in and is so
over the top because apparently everybody was coked out of
their mind, especially that is Quaite. The acting is so
over the top, but you do get some good scenes
with actors working with like killer whales, dolphins and stuff
like that. There's a lot of scenes where I'm like, wow,
that's best Armstrong on the Killer well, and so I
actually like Jaws three a lot more than Jaws The Revenge.
But I think it's a fun movie. I mean because
it it's almost not that they play back into it
a little bit of the Brodi's being like, oh, well,
I know sharks they're killers, but they don't reflect on
it as much as The Revenge of Oh They're coming
after me. It just more is so of coincidence.
Speaker 3: I think the Moderator and Billy Madison would have a
field day with what you just said. I'm gonna I'm
gonna say this, Y'all's three D is a dumpster fire
of a movie. And if the Shirley listeners have not
seen it, save your time. If you want to see
Lewis Gosset Junior in the water, go go rent the
deep because you're gonna be way happier with him and
Jack lambissit. And as far as Leah Thompson, watch her
and I don't know anything else her end in his
quaid because.
Speaker 2: What about Howard the Duck?
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely worst film of nineteen eighty six or tied.
I guess we could say Jason Yes for worst film
of nineteen six I'll take her in that every day
of the week and twice on Sunday over over Jall's
three D.
Speaker 2: Whoao wow?
Speaker 5: Tell me that a story based on a theme park
that builds a lagoon that leans out to the ocean
and a shark accidentally gets in could maybe happen as
opposed to a descendant from nineteen seventy five of a
shark that his target it did. A family is a
better film than just the Sea World Adventure.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to discuss the biology of sharks and
and how many eggs they lay or how Yeah, I'm
not gonna do that, or their motivations. What I am
going to say, I don't know what they.
Speaker 5: Do do They swim, They eat, and make baby shirts.
That's all they do. That's all they do. They don't
take things personally.
Speaker 3: They say what you will about Jaws Revenge, but I
will take any frame from Jaws Revenge and happily watch
that over the terrible three D special effects of stuff
floating at us in Jaws three D. It's kind of
leading with our final judgment. Huh, I'm sorry, Yeah, this
is Jaws three D versus Jaws Revenge. You know, I'll
save my my thoughts for Jaws against against soups. But
I just I can't believe Brad's saying, how amazing Jaws
three D.
Speaker 5: Well, Well, here one last thing about Jaws three. Like
I said, if you take away the Jaws title, if
you would have called it something else, it's kind of
like a horror film. There's a lot deep bluesy no
but no, but Jaws three they show a lot of blood.
Have you guys watched it very recently, yes, But it's
very like a sigh.
Speaker 3: It's actually at.
Speaker 5: The beginning like a horror film, not more of like
a C terror adventure. They set it up like a
horror film, and I think, I don't know, it stands
a little bit different for it.
Speaker 2: But the last time that I saw Jaws three D
was twenty nine years ago, almost exactly up until my
dad said, get up, we're not watching the rest of
this movie. I walked out.
Speaker 3: You walked out of the theater on Jaws three D.
Speaker 2: The first time I was that was a like a
revelatory moment, like I'm I mean in nineteen eighty three,
I was eight seven. Maybe it was like you're allowed
to just walk out of them? Is that something you
can do. But sure enough we did it, and he
was just he was appalled, not so appalled that he
didn't Maybe I can't remember he took me to Jaws
Revenge or not. But so just I'll throw I'll throw
my two cents in on these, on these measurements. And
by the way, I'll start off with Superman three, just
because it's come in. It's come in a couple times. Here,
Superman three on IMDb gets a five point zero. You
mentioned that Supergirl is really the next in the series
and probably the worst movie. It got a four point four,
and then Superman four got a three point seven. Jaws
three D also got a three point seven. Jaws the
Revenge three point zero.
Speaker 4: Nobody cans zero.
Speaker 2: I am not saying that I agree with that, but
let the record show that as far as the fan
vote is concerned, there is no question that Jaws the
Revenge is the worst of these sequence of movies.
Speaker 3: Okay, take this to the town council, Larry Vaughan, and
I will demand a recount.
Speaker 5: I can accept that a three point seven over a
three point zero. I can accept that as far as
the ratings are concerned.
Speaker 3: Oh and it's.
Speaker 5: Just saying it's just a little bit better than Jaws
the event, just a little bit.
Speaker 4: I'm calling may Or Murray Hamilton and raising Kine about that.
Speaker 2: Just for a little bit of perspective. The director of
Jaws three D is the guy who designed the shark
that wouldn't work for Jaws one.
Speaker 3: But we started our list, we started.
Speaker 2: Our last episode with how did this movie get made? Right? Like,
how did this steamy pilot crap end up in theaters
in front of the public who was anxious for something
not what we got right? And so we talked about
what happened with Superman four. It was a huge budget slash.
It was the sal Kinds basically had to give away
the rights for five million dollars because they were out
of money. Then the Cannon group who took the movie
had to slice the budget from thirty six million down
to seventeen million, which is a gigantic cut, and then
cut twenty five percent of the movie that they filmed.
These are all reasons for a bad movie, But as
Jason pointed out, with Jaws four, you've still got universal money,
like you've got major studio money. It was a very
expensive movie. You got the director of the taking a
pelllem one two three, which is I mean an Emmy
winning director, right, Yeah, You've got Michael Caine, You've got
Lance Guest, who was super hot at the time. I
don't mean like in an attractive way. I mean like
he was a hot commodity.
Speaker 3: Aman.
Speaker 2: He's a good looking guy too.
Speaker 3: I'll say it with the Lance Guest with the beard.
Come on, yeah, no, that's the look he needed.
Speaker 5: He was the last we knew him as the last Starfighter.
Speaker 2: That's yah, it was the last Starfighter. So how with
all of that do you get Jaws the Revenge? And
it's three point zero nastiness.
Speaker 4: Here's the one thing you're also forgetting is that the
star the leading lady, was married to the studio head.
Speaker 2: Sid Sheinberg, who is responsible for the first Jows. He
is responsible for getting Steven Spielberg to make the first Jaws.
He was president back then, still president in nineteen eighty
six when he makes a call and says we need
to make Jaws four. How does that happen?
Speaker 5: He said, I want my wife out of the house
twitter in the Bahamas for like six months as sick
of her. Is the only thing I could think of
He's just like, gave her something.
Speaker 3: To do, he hung her out to dry.
Speaker 2: So I don't think that he anticipated obviously that this
was going to be the train wreck that it was, right,
but why did they decide to do it? So I'm
going to take you guys back to nineteen eighty six.
Everybody excited about that. You guys are super familiar with
that year.
Speaker 3: We know a little bit about nineteen twelve.
Speaker 2: Bets, just just in case our listeners don't know, the
film by guys have a running series dedicated to the
movies of nineteen eighty six. Jason just got off of
an episode that he did with them on what movie I've.
Speaker 4: Done Legal Eagles, We've done the Hitcher.
Speaker 3: Kind of poetic since we're talking about these two movies
for eighty seven, but we're doing like the worst week ever.
We're gonna be talking about Howard the Duck and Under
the Cherry Moon. So and Jason's coming back for that one.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you said it, because you've named both
of the movies. Now. So for nineteen eighty six, Universal
had two major investments. One was Legal Eagles. They spent
like forty million dollars, which I mean that's a lot
of money for a courtroom drama, right, courtroom comedy, Yeah, drama.
That's a whole lot, and it's largely because of salaries
and stuff. They made some money on it, but not
nearly enough to justify a budget that big. And then
they followed it right up with an even bigger budget
for Howard the Duck, which was the biggest stinker potentially
of the eighties, if not nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 4: Be sure to listen to your podcast to determine how
those shake out as the worst of eighty six.
Speaker 2: So here it is, they've just finished the summer of
nineteen eighty six. Sid Sheinberg is sitting in his office thinking,
how the heck do I come back from this dismal
summer that I've just had. It's September or October, and
he thinks, I think that I can make another Jaws movie.
Speaker 4: That's not a bad idea, it's not a great idea.
It is a great idea.
Speaker 2: So there's Sid Sheinberg and he's thinking to himself, we've
just laid a couple of eggs here. What do we
do to come back from it? Let's look at somebody
who's been super successful in the summer of nineteen eighty six, Jason,
what do you think the best movie of nineteen eighty
six was this movie.
Speaker 4: Of nineteen eighty six, Spike The Football is Aliens, without
a doubt, unquestionably James Cameron's masterpiece.
Speaker 2: And so Sid Sheinberg is looking at that same storyline.
He's thinking, huh, a woman hero fights a terrible, sharp
toothed monster. I wonder if I can do something it's
got to be I mean, i'm it makes sense. I'm
there's conjecture here. There's no question. There's some conjects, but
I mean, it's pretty easy to make those mental jumps,
isn't it.
Speaker 4: So he calls Sigourney Weaver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he now this is interesting. He went home
and told his wife, Hey, I think I'm going to
do another Jaws movie, and she didn't believe him. And
then she really didn't believe that he was going to
cast her in the movie because she hadn't acted in
eight years. Movie that she was in before this movie
was nineteen forty one, the Big Spielberg Egg.
Speaker 3: Seventy.
Speaker 5: We ripped that apart on a film by There you go.
Speaker 3: Hated to do it, but we did.
Speaker 5: But do you think it's she's actually not bad in
the movie. I mean, she's a pretty good actress.
Speaker 3: No, she's not.
Speaker 4: And you know what I texted you, guys, she's forty
nine in nineteen eighty six when she films this movie,
she looks seventy five. And I'm sorry, I hate to
be the one who says that I'm forty nine years old.
I hope I don't look that old.
Speaker 2: Ye, well, she looked like she was in her sixties
back in seventy five.
Speaker 3: Let me let me ask this, because we know we
got universal money here. Is there any hope that maybe
they wanted to kind of age her to get a
little bit closer to Michael Caine and and also be
believable as as Lance Guest's mom because he's twenty seven.
And when this movie comes out and the math holds up,
you know, you know, if Ellen Brody has her first
kid when she's twenty two. But you're right, she life
on the island has been tough for her.
Speaker 2: She's a little too much fun, a little too much
beach done, little too much. Yeah, and let me just
I'm gonna throw this in on my on my theory
on aliens. The tagline for Aliens was this time it's war.
The tagline for Josh the Revenges this time it's personal.
That's a wonderful difference, guys, one word different, I think. Man.
Speaker 3: By the way, you could almost switch those taglines for
the movies and it still makes sense, right, yeah, right, wow.
Speaker 2: By the way, this is another just a sidebar. There
were rumors back then that suggested that Sid Sheinberg and
Universal president Frank Price had started a heat argument on
the fifteenth floor of the studio building because they each
blamed the other one for giving Howard the Duck the
green light that actually ended up in a full on fistfight.
Speaker 3: I believe that.
Speaker 5: I believe that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Sid Sheinberg denies it, says it's not true,
But I like that story.
Speaker 4: Oh front of them green light to jows of revenge.
It's got to be Sid Scheinberg. I mean, there's no question,
that's no.
Speaker 2: Question that Sid Sheinberg. So here's what happened. Sid Sheinberg
gets what he believes to be a brilliant idea. We're
gon we're gonna steal the thunder of Aliens, and we're
gonna make it in the Bahamas. I mean, it's like
we're taking a James Bond movie, right, and we're gonna
get some quality actors and put in it. We got
this guy from Heartbreak Ridge. By the way, Heartbreak Ridge
one of the first episodes that I listened to that
you guys did, loved it, Thank you. But you've got
mister Mario Van Peeples who was like, no, I'm not
gonna do I saw Jows three D. You know I'm
not gonna do that. And they're like, we'll give you
a lot of money and you can have complete control
of the character and how it's played. It's like, Okay,
I'll do it.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do it Jamaican the entire time.
Speaker 5: Yea, not the entire time. Just not the entire time,
not the entire time, just some times when to say, Mike,
get those conks men stuff.
Speaker 2: Can you live?
Speaker 3: I almost feel like the casting that can you can you? Oh,
you can do it? You make an accent. Yeah, I'm
just gonna use the word mon a lot and people people.
Speaker 2: Go for it.
Speaker 4: No, but I stayed a holiday and express.
Speaker 2: The other key ingredient. You've got aliens, You've got we've
got to recover from Howard the duck. And you've got
my wife. I can pay her a lot of money
to do this movie and get her out of my
hair maybe.
Speaker 3: And then my mistress is in town.
Speaker 2: But what sealed the deal for him were the high
TV ratings that Jaws one and Josh two were getting
at the time. They were blown away. They're like, wow,
these these movies are still popular. Let's give it another
try while it's still got gas in the tank, right,
he sends to me. So he calls the director, Joseph Sargent,
and he's like, Okay, I don't really think I can
do a Jaws movie. I'm that's not my style at all.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, I want this
to be like a relationship, character driven movie. This needs
to be a throwback to the original, but more about
the characters and the relationships between them, and you again
have control. He's like, wow, okay, well, I guess I
can give that a try. He's like, okay, great, I
need it by July of next year. This was September
or October. That's nine months. Again. This is why we
have the stinker that we have is because they've forced
them to do a movie. This time. They have a
bunch of sharks, a bunch of bruss if you will.
And what was the thing that everybody kept saying during
the original Jaws? They announced it over the innercarm.
Speaker 5: The shark is not working. The shark is not working.
Speaker 2: You got it? And they had those same issues despite
the fact that they took like ten different sharks down there.
They repeatedly did not work. Lance Guest said, I was
routinely sent home for the day because the shark was
not working.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: They really did not learn any of the lessons from Joss, right, No,
I mean one of the great things about Joss We've
talked about this. You sense the shark, you see the
fin the music tells you where it is. And this
it's like rah, just right across the screen. You're like,
what is that plastic piece of crap that we're looking at?
Speaker 3: So they somehow got Michael Caine.
Speaker 5: Michael Caine had a reputation for taking some stinkers but
doing it very smartly, like buying a house, sending his
kids to college, things like that. That started with Beyond
the Sign of the Adventure the Hand in nineteen eighty
one and this. You know a lot of movies you're like,
why is Michael Cain in this, But he always says, hey,
bought me my summer house, got my foot kids through college,
got me this vacation, fixed my roof. So I mean
he did them and I can say that in none
of those films does they look like he's just like
I'm just gonna walk. He does go full on Michael Kanish,
which is always fun to watch.
Speaker 3: I know this about Michael Kane. Also, he's a huge
fan of Jaws and decided, hey, I just want to
be a part of that pop culture piece of film
to say that I'm in the Jaws world. Count me
in and it shows, like when he plays Hoky, he's
having a fun time Doug. To Brad's point, he's not
phoning it in. He's having a good time down there.
He's one of the things that works in this movie. Yeah,
absolutely he is.
Speaker 2: When he was asked in interviews about it later, they said,
have you seen the movie and he says, no, but
I've been in the house that it bought and it's
very lovely.
Speaker 3: Here you go, here's the exact quote.
Speaker 4: Okay, listen to this, soak this in because it's marvelous.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I have never seen it, but by all accounts it's terrible. However,
I have seen the house that it built and it
is terrific. He also said, kind of, Brad, what you
were saying, I want an Oscar. I built a house,
had a great holiday. Not bad for a flop movie.
Speaker 2: He won the Oscar that year for the the movie
that he had done the year before, Hannah and her Sisters,
and this movie. Because they were trying to squeeze it
in such an impossible time frame. He said, can I have,
you know, just a couple of days off to go
up and be at the Oscars? And they said, no, no,
you can't, And so he won the Oscar but was
not able to be there because of this movie.
Speaker 4: Jaws the Revenge was released July seventeenth, nineteen eighty seven.
It finished third at the box office. Number one was Rocop,
Number two was a Disney re release of Snow White Yep.
Speaker 3: Three was jos The Revenge.
Speaker 5: Did any of you guys see this in the theater?
Speaker 2: No? I saw it in the theater. Wow, I did.
Speaker 5: My brother took me to see it. He had just
turned thirteen. So this movie was PG thirteen, even though
I think three is a lot more goorier, but he
took me to see it, and there are two different
endings to this film. We will cover that, Okay, yeah
for sure. But yeah, I actually did see this in
the theater.
Speaker 2: I don't mind. I mean, we could talk about that
now because I told I told Jason because we're talking
about it, and he's like, how long has it been
since you've seen it? And I said, I think I
saw it in the theater and that's the only time
I saw it. And he's like, so the end and
I'm like, yeah, the shark gets impaled. He goes yeah,
and then it explodes and I'm like what. He's like, yeah,
the shark explodes for literally no reason at all, and
I'm like, man, I don't remember that far. And so
we keep on talking and he mentions that, you know,
Jake gets eaten by the shark and then miraculously, even
though he's obviously drowned and gored to death, just appears
back at the end and it's completely fine.
Speaker 3: I'm like, he did, I don't remember that fight either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's because in the theatrical cut, neither one
of those things happened. There was no shark exploding, and
he was dead. He was dead dead, and it went
from impaled shark and you know, the ship getting taken
down cut to they're leaving in the plane. He's saying,
get on, you know, hurry and get on Ellen Brody
because you're going to miss flight. That was it. There
was no swimming, there was no none of that, and
definitely no exploding shark. What happened was they showed the
theatrical cut, everybody hated it, and they thought the way
to fix it was to put an exploding shark at
the end and then save Mario.
Speaker 5: People's I recently watched it. It is on to be.
It is streaming on to be, So that's the version
I watched, and I was like, Okay, where's the impairment
and is this going to be I remember like, is
this going to be the version where Mario van Peebles
lives or not? And I remember the impairment was kind
of unique, you know, because it does bring down the
entire ship. But I believe these are clips from the
very first film.
Speaker 2: This makes as much sense as a great white shark
swimming five thousand miles at the same speed that a
plane flash.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, real quick, just because I'm starting to feel
like an impostor, and I don't want you guys to
drop me like a chum marker. Oh I'm gonna go
hot take. I love Jaws of Revenge. I've got plenty,
I got plenty to say about what's wrong with it,
but I I freaking love Jaws the Revenge.
Speaker 4: Brad knows this for years and years because.
Speaker 3: We've debated the rage debate over this, But I love
the film, so I'll have lots of good to say.
Speaker 2: Let me let me say this because this is a
This is a good segue into talking about what the
what the movie did right? But phone conversation with Jason
this morning, as I'm driving over here today, I was
actually really surprised at how much I liked Draws the
Revenge right, because again, I hadn't seen it since nineteen
eighty seven, and I remembered it being horrible, and when
I watched it again, I was like, well, it's really
horrible in certain areas, which are really big areas, but
it's not horrible as a whole. There are some decent parts,
so we can.
Speaker 5: I'm waiting to hear this, Chris.
Speaker 2: I'm giving death stare, arms crossed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, so.
Speaker 2: I think then that probably the appropriate thing to do
at this moment is to have Brad tell us, Brad,
what did this movie get right? What they do right?
Speaker 5: I think the Bahamas works. Using Using the Bahamas works,
It's very beautiful. You get a lot of clear shots,
like the shot of them looking for Ellen and the
shark coming out of the water, the aerial view with
the ship. I'm like, that's a really good shot, and
that's the whole ocean. So I think a lot of
that stuff they got right. I think the casting was
obviously very good, but using the Brodie's and the personal stuff,
so it just it just gotta I'm trying to think
if there's anything.
Speaker 3: Else good, come on, man, in it.
Speaker 5: I don't. I mean no, I can't think of anything
else that's really that good in it.
Speaker 4: Jason, Okay, I don't want to get in front of
Jeff on this stuff, but.
Speaker 2: Jeff is we're saving Jeff with the end.
Speaker 5: OKAE got some good stuff.
Speaker 4: So just to kind of expand on what Brad said,
I think that the cast is really good.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: You've got Michael Caine, who is an Oscar winner. You
bring back Lorrangary, who you know played Ellen, brody and
and she was solid. I thought she did a good jake.
You know, Mari Van Peebles, I liked him. He was fun.
The accent was a little bit here and there, but
still good character, a lot of fun. Lance Guest, Last Starfighter,
sign me up right. My favorite character in the entire
movie is Carla, the girl who plays Michael's wife. Really,
she was sweet and lovely. Karen Young when she is
helping Michael snap out of his depression by you know,
inviting him to climb under the sheets, I was like,
this girl's awesome, right, ye rubber banding her panties at
his face, panties. Fact that Roy Schard didn't come back,
I thought that was a good move.
Speaker 3: Smart.
Speaker 4: You know. The fact that he of fear is one
of the things that did not work for me, and
we can talk about that here in a second. Listen,
the return of missus Kintner was yes, gold.
Speaker 5: I didn't notice that until this wat It.
Speaker 3: Didn't do a very good job.
Speaker 4: Of making you see that, but she's there, She's at
the post funeral lunch, and I'm with you. I think
the Bahamas were beautiful to look at. Unfortunately, when you
pair those Bahama scenes up with the backlot at Universal.
Speaker 3: It becomes so clear and I'm gonna give one.
Speaker 4: More thing, and then on Jeff, I'm gonna get out
of your way. This is the eighties lover in me okay,
when they break into You've Got It All by the
Jets at that dance party number three hit in nineteen
eighty six. It was on the Makeout List of eighty six.
It just brought back a lot of nostalgic memories. Now
listen before I get out, before I turn it over
to you, we are doing a bonus Patreon episode where
we deep dive on that particular song. Yay. So there
is a very interesting story behind this song. It's gonna
be a bonus episode. Follow us on Patreon.
Speaker 5: Check it out over there.
Speaker 3: All right, Jeff, it's all the floors yours bro way, Jeff,
before you go, yeah, yeah, let's hear from you.
Speaker 2: I know that's all right. I want to save you
for last. But just another shameless plug. Jason and I
have covered Jaws of the original movie versus Jurassic Park,
and we were talking about Lee Fierro. Missus Kittener thirty
years later, goes to a restaurant somewhere in Martha's vineyard
area and looks at the menu and sees that there's
an Alex Kittner berger, and she says to the waitress.
She's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is
on here. She goes, I actually played the part of
Missus Kittner in the original Jaws movie. And the waitress
is like, oh my gosh, hold on, she leaves, She
comes back and brings the restaurant owner with her. The
restaurant owner is the kid who played Alex Kittner, and
that's why they have that burger love Man.
Speaker 3: What a great story.
Speaker 2: So I will just say for my part, they came
into this movie with the idea of doing character development
and relationship development. I think they did a really good
job with that. I mean, the interaction between the characters
is really good, and it's actually really well shot for
like a drama. If you could only take out the
shark scenes and change the storyline, you might have a
good movie. The problem is the shark and the storyline
are the two biggest pieces of the movie. So despite
the fact that you've got what appears to be some
really great acting, great character writing, great relationship writing and
great directing in the non special effects area. It's just
not enough to say this movie, but those parts where
I thought very well done. And that was why I
said to Jason, I really find myself enjoying this a
lot more than I thought I was going to.
Speaker 3: Well, listen, all three of you actually did a lot
of the heavy lifting for me just then. And I
don't want to retread the same water too much, but
I will say sensational cast.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 3: I love the cast, you know. I enjoy seeing Michael
Kaine in anything, even the smaller roles like the little
girl Judith Barci.
Speaker 2: I think your name is, you know.
Speaker 3: Fantastic, and she has some tough dialogue if you think
about some of the conversations that she has. I know,
I know she's ten playing five, but but she does
it really well. I think I absolutely love Lance Guest
in this Sorry brad Leagues above Dennis Quaid. And I'm
not saying they're filmographies. I'm just saying, as Brodie's I'm
always gonna go with Lance Guest over Dennisquaid. I definitely
love the idea that a lot of this movie is
about personal relationships. I totally buy the whole thing between
Ellen and Michael. It feels real. And if you took
if you took the whole shark attack out of this
and made this a drama, I'd watch another another hour
of just them dealing with the loss of a relative
because they both sell it so well. Another thing I
really like about this and we we kind of we've
kind of talked a little bit about this on our
on our podcast, but movies like this from the eighties
and the seventies and even like the early nineties, I
was a lot younger, so there's there's things I didn't
pay attention to that as an adult, I do pay
attention to this movie and the way it deals with
PTSD and and trauma for people. I think has done
really well, especially with Lance Guest. I mean, he is
absolutely just destroyed when the shark comes to town because
he's holding it pretty he's holding himself together pretty well
for his mom and the family. But when the shark
shows up, you know, the sleepless nights, the drenched sweat,
I mean, he's waking up like Ellen Ripley in Aliens,
I mean, he is not okay with with what's going on.
And I love the fact that even after his first
encounter with the shark, he wants to jump right back
in the water just to deal with his demons. So
a lot of good stuff going on here. I love
the production values. Shooting in the Bahamas, shooting at Martha's vineyard.
They have no issues just destroying a small I don't
think it's like a cessna. When HOGI just lands it,
that was a great scene.
Speaker 2: I was like, are they really going to land that thing?
And by golly, they did it. I thought that he's
a full on cowboy.
Speaker 3: It's like, hey, we got to get to her, all right,
we're taking it down.
Speaker 2: I'm not real sure why you wouldn't cut the props
and like glide In. Maybe glide In it's supposed to
destroying the propellers when you come in. But you know whatever,
it was real.
Speaker 3: It's a ballsy move too, because yeah, it's a ballsy
move because you've got to crash the plane near the boat,
and then you've got like a thirty yard swim to
the boat and oh, by the way, there's a great
white shark right there. Love when he's doing the hide
and seek in the sunken ship with the shark. I
feel the claustrophobia in that scene, and I think to myself,
you know, wow, what would you even do? How do
you how far can you go? And again the effects
and I know this movie gets the Razzie for for
worst effects, which I don't know how that happens when
Superman four is also out there, but when Jaws bust
through like and when it can't, when it can't reach him,
and it busts through and the only thing saving him
is that rusty ladder. Love that scene. That's a that's
a clutch, the arm of the couch moment, you know
where you're just like, get out of there, find a
way out. So I went a little too far, but hey,
I'm this is what I love about the movie.
Speaker 2: So just talking about that scene, I mentioned in our
last episode that Superman had some parts that could have
been great, and we ended up seeing him great and
mega mind And as far as that particular scene goes,
where you got him, where you got Bruce chasing the
guy through the sunken ship, they took it up a
notch when they did finding Nemo.
Speaker 4: They did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they did that's right.
Speaker 3: Scope.
Speaker 2: Hey, well look this works spelled just like the escape is.
Speaker 3: All friends not food.
Speaker 4: Hey, one more thing that's positive in the in the
positive column for jas Revenge, No Cindy and Sandy, the
ridiculous dolphins from just three.
Speaker 3: So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5: I will agree, did Jane? There's all three? The Cindy
and Sandy thing does hurt, And yes, I will agree
with you that Lance Guest's performance is brody because apparently
Dennis Quaid was so coked up you could see it.
He is, he overacts so much, him and Best Armstrong
and Lewis Cassa Junior. But I don't understand how I
won the Razzie for Worse Effects because I'm trying to
figure out when there was a bad effect, because Jeff,
you were right that that scene where the latter stucks.
Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about those.
Speaker 5: Trying to remember like some of the bad special effects,
but there are some good special effects that at least
counter the bad ones.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, and I'll be fair.
Speaker 4: I know right, he's defend I like it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: Before we get into the fun part of the podcast,
I got to bring it down for just a second. Okay,
the tragic story of Judith Barci. We've got to at
least touch on that. Okay, she's a girl and Jaws
the Revenge. Her father was a psychopath who kept her
mother and her constant fear, threatened to kill them, threatened
to kill them. When they went to the Bahamas to
shoot Jaws the Revenge, she said, if you don't come back,
I'm gonna hunt you down and kill you. Well a
year later, in nineteen eighty eight, he did that very thing.
He killed his wife, killed the little girl. Her name
is Judith, and then killed himself.
Speaker 2: She had, I mean, she was a quick rising star.
She had been in quite a few things. This obviously
was a big movie that she was in. But if
you guys remember A Land Before Time, she was a
little duck billed dinosaur that would go yep, yep, yep, yep.
And that's what they actually put on her tombstone marker.
Is that quote yep yep yep?
Speaker 4: Right is kucky yep? One is what it is? Yet
lap blood?
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was. She was a little girl with some
acting chops she pulled. I mean, she took a part
that had a lot of potential to be super annoying
and she delivered it really well. It is a true tragedy.
I've heard that that house that people who have resided
in the house believe it to be haunted by the
her spirit.
Speaker 3: Last guest was one of the pall bearers at the funeral.
No oh wow, all right, So enough of that.
Speaker 4: Let's get into the stuff that does not work in
this movie.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about Maverick for just a second? Top
Gun Maverick?
Speaker 3: Sure? What was ways?
Speaker 2: So we all have done our own podcast on Top
Gun Maverick. And when you guys saw that first scene
where it absolutely mimicked the first scene of the original
Top Gun, did everybody else do the same thing in
their head in their head that I did where you went?
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, so chills.
Speaker 2: So what we got at the beginning of Jaws the
Revenge is we've got the shark's point of view swimming
through the water, and I'm like, okay, I could see it.
That's the right move to make very good you guys
would do it. WHOA what? Why is his head above
the water? Yep? What is happening? Apparently that was foreshadowing
because a majority of the movie when you see the shark,
he's above the water.
Speaker 5: He is out of the water a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, it was like get Nope, almost good and
then not good.
Speaker 4: But here we go with the bad effects, right, so
we need to be reminded of the bad effects here. Yeah,
when Sean gets his arm eating off and you can
see his other.
Speaker 2: So I knew a piano player was just one arm.
Took her two minutes to play the minute walls, let
me tell that to him other and just Son just
got his arm.
Speaker 5: Son got his arm rapped.
Speaker 2: Yeah, told that joke to her. H Again, I thought
the acting was good. You got Mitchell Anderson as the
young Sean or the I guess the old Sean Brody, right,
the kid who little over the top, who in the
first who in the first Jaws does the imitation game
with that? Right? That was that was what he was
supposed to do there. Mitchell Anderson is the guy playing it,
and I and I'm watching, I'm like, I know that guy?
How do I know that guy? Don't? Do you guys
know where you know him from?
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2: He was the other like the pretty doctor in Doogie Hazard.
Oh okay, yeah, I again I thought it was a
good I thought everything was well directed and set up
wealth to have him out there and then you have
that absurd I can see your arm inside your shirt moment,
and then him just screaming, and of course the shark again.
They violate the cardinal rule of the good horror movies,
the rule that Jaws put in place by pure accident,
which is you don't show the shark. You don't show
the shark until you're like three quarters into the movie.
They showed it within the first five minutes and it
was terrible. It was not believable. It was an ugly shark.
And then you've got this weird look like he had
his arm caught in a paper shredder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then.
Speaker 2: Somehow he ends back up in the water.
Speaker 3: Jeff, care to defend that one. I cannot defend that
that moment because listen, you are a Amityville deputy, and
I understand you're in shock. You just got your arm
bit off and it's it looks like a site gag
from a Pink Panther film. However, you have two choices.
You can crawl over to the CB and and and
scream for help, or you can hang yourself over the
side of the half chewed boat and scream for help
to the the choir that's singing about a mile away.
I hate that scene just because of the ignorance that
it that it has him showing.
Speaker 2: Hey, it was really important for him to go get
that log off of that booy because it was gonna stop.
Speaker 3: All of those fishes, all the fishermen who even saw
that in that pitch black moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So once she flies, Okay, so we've
got the funeral, right, yep, she got She's telling her son,
who's just about to get his doctorate in marine biology,
that she doesn't want him to work in the water anymore.
I actually appreciated that, as I can see, I can
see the irrational mom that that that's believable. Right. But
then Mike is talking to his wife as they walk
along the beach, and mid sentence, he takes off running
down the beach. What the heck?
Speaker 3: What was that? D I wrote a note here that
and I'm reading it. It says, uh, Michael's run before
the funeral question mark. All I can say is we
all deal with grief in our own ways. Some of
us cry, some of us shout, some of us run
run the beach like Rocky Balboa or or kind of
McLoud and Highlander.
Speaker 2: And then after telling her son that she doesn't want
him anywhere near the water anymore. The next scene, they're
on the ferry and ugly crying on the ferry.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, not a good cry for her.
Speaker 4: Now, then, what I want to talk about. I think
we're kind of there is, you know, Hogy taking them
on the airplane and then dive bombing the rich residence
of the Bahamas and scaring.
Speaker 3: The crap out of people who have.
Speaker 4: PTSD as it is, right right, Yeah, hey, let's just
havething really fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk about my gambling problem.
Speaker 5: Hey.
Speaker 4: By the way, Hogy's profession clearly is drug smuggler.
Speaker 3: Yes, with that, Yeah, I don't think he's smuggling drugs.
I think he's smuggling drug money because he does tell
Michael when Michael's like what do you what do you
do Hogy, He's like laundry. Yeah, So I see him
more like a Glen Fry smugglers lose on device. Nice,
that's that's you know, This is Glenn Fry's dad, is
what we're what we're saying, or his older brother.
Speaker 4: If you will be cool for twenty hours and I'll
pay you twenty grand, yes, we'll cut there.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 5: I have a question about Jake. When did he see
the original Jaws, because he apparently knows the Jaws theme
when he's down to Michael Blue, Oh he must have
saw the first Jaws. No, no, he didn't.
Speaker 3: I'm going to defend that one. Okay, so if you listen,
you know he's not going dud dud, He's going dun
blum blum. I can test that he's he's a Friday
thirteenth fan and he's just doing the opening. Uh you know,
bit Harry Manfredini's Friday thirteenth score dent d d d
d d dent du Yeah, oh my god, he knock
it off. Jake should know that. Jay, you know that
Michael's not a fan of Friday thirteenth. And I'm gonna
leave it at that.
Speaker 5: Jake's kind of a kind of a jerk to really
make Michael do It's like, dude, your brother just got
eaten by a shark. Your family has a past history
with sharks. But I'm gonna make you google help me
look for one. Come on, I mean, come on, I
mean he has a small thing. Oh sorry about your brother, man.
Speaker 3: You're right, he is a jerk. If if I'll just
I'll point this out because I loved your your Jamaican
accent there. But that's one of the moments where Mario
slips into regular angler.
Speaker 5: Yeah that's right.
Speaker 3: You know, that's one big Fischman and they goes, hey,
I'm sorry about your brother man.
Speaker 5: Well, well, cracks me up about this shark is not
only does it have on revenge scenario type of situation
working on, but apparently has vocal cords too. It can scream,
you know, when her.
Speaker 2: Even if sharks had vocal cords, they don't have lungs, yeah, cords.
Speaker 4: And even if they did have vocal cords and lungs,
they wouldn't scream out a sound effect from a Tom
and Jerry cartoon?
Speaker 2: What's the cartoon?
Speaker 3: Tom and Jerry?
Speaker 2: So Tom Jerry? What makes that noise?
Speaker 4: In Tom and Jerry, Jerry has a little mouse friend
and Tom wax his butt with a fly swatter and
he gets red ass from it, and Jerry goes like berserk,
and he's like and he gives that big giant roar
and he goes he pulls Tom through a not hoole
and beats scrap out of it.
Speaker 2: So you're telling me that the impossible shark roar is
not even a lion's roar. It's a cartoon mouse's rule.
Speaker 4: It's Jerry Mouse's roar from a Tom and Jerry cartoon.
Speaker 3: Did you guys know that? No? No, no, I didn't
know it. But it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 4: Oh indeed, yes, absolutely wow.
Speaker 2: We touched on it a bit ago, but I just did.
I just did the math here, so just so that
you know, top speed for a shark is about thirty
one miles per hour. So round Christmas time, if that
shark was in Martha's vineyard, if it left right after
it bit the arm off the other guy, before the
people even flew away, it would have gotten to the Bahamas,
oh sometime around Saint Patrick's Day.
Speaker 5: Okay. And I know you guys talked about like the
personal stuff in there, but I think some of the stuff,
like Carla getting mad at Michael for like not taking
out the garbage and your whole thing with her sculpture
and stuff, I was just bored. I was just bored
with their whole kind of you know, I want to
make love to an angry welder, and just I thought
it was I thought it was filler that I didn't
care about Ellen and HOGI okay.
Speaker 2: Right, because they're different types of movies. A character driven,
relationship driven movie is not what you want to go
see when you pick Jaws in the title, right, I
want to go see people chasing a shark and being
chased by a shark. That's it.
Speaker 3: You gotta take the good with the bad.
Speaker 4: She did sling shot the panties at him them. Yeah,
she uses sex a lot. She refers to it during Christmas,
she refers to it at New Year's Eve. She does
it in the bedroom when he's all, you know, like
in his head and stuff.
Speaker 5: And then she does it at the welding thing.
Speaker 3: Let me say it again, Lance guest with a beard.
Speaker 5: That's all it takes.
Speaker 2: Okay, you brought something up just about you know, he's
upset about he's seen the shark and he's having a dream.
Before that, we have Ellen Brody having the dream where
she's swimming. Right, They've arrived at in Nassau and she's
swimming and she gets tacked by a shark and all
of a sudden it's a dream. And can I just say,
don't do that. I think they thought it would work
because of aliens. Again that you know that that brief
dream sequence that Ripley had where the alien seems to
be coming out of her. That one was allowable, this one,
these two not.
Speaker 4: And you know what we failed to talk about that,
really we should have been. Our starting point is the
script meeting where somebody stood up and said, how about
a shark targeting the Brody family for revenge and he
has like a psychic connection with them. Yeah, somebody should
have fired that. Dude right then said dude, who get
out of here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're firing here.
Speaker 5: But this is the this is the premise that puts
in Jeff's opinion, Jaw's four over Jaws three.
Speaker 3: Look talking about things that that that don't work or
that they got wrong. Yeah, I've got Ellen's shark esp
written down. Here's the thing, though, if you if you
want to throw the blame at someone, I think you
have to throw it at sergeant. Because as d was
pointing out like the behind the scenes on this and
talking how we get this movie to begin with, he says,
I don't know if I could do this, And they
said no, no, no, we're gonna do something different to
see what you can do. You're gonna you're gonna produce
it you're gonna direct it, and he there's a quote
I can't remember where I saw, but here's a quote
where he talks about how he thought maybe bringing a
little bit of magic, which I think that's the wrong word,
but he said he uses the word magic, and he says,
let's put a little magic into this story and really
give the audience something they haven't seen before. So that's
where you get this whole supernatural The sharks after the family,
and you know Ellen, since when a Brody's in danger,
you know, she's she's at the Junkanoo festival with Hogi
and then Michael gets attacked and she stops like, oh
my god, wait, something's wrong, like right right, mother's instinct.
So I can't even fault Lorraine Gary for the role
that she had to play. I think she does a
great job with this, But that's not on her that
she has to have, like, you know, esp and the
shark has to have some kind of psychic connection with her.
That's that's on that's on the makers of the film.
Speaker 4: So the novelization, the original script had a little bit
of voodoo curse into it, right, Oh wow. So they
ran into each other at that festival, in the Bahamas
and they actually, you know, they bump into what's his
name from Live and Let Die and he drops a
cur codo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's a vengeful witch doctor. That's the early
draft and the novelization. The shark is controlled by a
vengeful witch doctor. I don't know how it makes him
swim past her, but yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 3: I can buy that a heck of a lot more
than I can SeaWorld's.
Speaker 5: Really you guess by that more than just a coincidence
at a theme park.
Speaker 2: Here's the god, here's the biggest problem. I mean, here's
the biggest problem here. How can the shark have revenge
if the shark in the past two to three movies
has been killed, that doesn't I mean, there's no that's
nothing left alive to have revenge. I told Jason I
was because he was like, bring that up. I'm like, well,
isn't it supposed to be like the mother of the
other sharks or something. He's like, no, that's not in there.
And I realized I made that up in my head
to try to give it some sort of rink, but
there is none. There is no explanation. She says. He
was trying to get Sean. He came down here for us.
That's psychotic, that is crazy. That doesn't make any sense
because the sharks are dead. They can't come get you.
Speaker 3: They're dead.
Speaker 5: I think the thing with this film and many, many,
many films of the eighties is you really only needed
a title in the movie for people to go see it. Right,
the Thirteenth Nightmare and Elm Street Superman, Jaws, you really
only needed that. You can kind of get ridiculous because
they knew their actual target audience were us at ten
twelve years old. Like you said, the Cannon Group, make
a poster, put the title on the thing, and that's
really all they needed.
Speaker 3: I think I have an answer to the Shark. You
know how it keeps coming back? Flashback to the hit
your episode that Jason and I did. We talked about
this phenomenon called the Mandela effect, where you have a
false memory that, for reasons that you don't understand, is
just planted in your brain and you know it happened
for real. I seem to remember the whole idea from
the Peter Benchley's novel Jaws were at the end after
the shark explodes, you kind of fade down the depths
of the ocean, and that's where you see a bunch
of baby sharks, and that's where the idea is, like
they just killed the mother. Maybe I'm remembering that it's
a false memory, but I think that explains how you
get Jaws two and Jael's three, how the shark keeps
coming back.
Speaker 5: I can definitely say a movie that actually surpassed the novel.
I did read the novel years ago, and it was
it was kind of depressing the original Jaws. Yeah, the
original Jaws novel is the characters are very unlikable.
Speaker 4: Well Hooper sleeps with freaking Ellen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was just very likable
at all.
Speaker 2: It was just like your Jeff said about Part three,
is that you wanted the shark to eat them. You're like,
people are horrible, You're rooting for the shark. Jumping back
into the bad of the movie, when when Jake is
there and he figures out that there's now a great
white shark in the Bahamas, which never happens his words,
never happens, and that they've got to study it. He
develops this thing that's going to track its heartbeat, right,
I mean, we've already got music that makes the heartbeat sound,
but okay, we'll put a little heartbeat tracker on there.
It kind of takes the place of the yellow floaters
that they had from Jaws one. Right, But I just want
to talk about the scene where they're going to implant
that thing into the side of the shark. They have
a gun like Shark one like Jaws one. Right, they're
just gonna they're gonna harpoon it. No, they lead him
out on a precarious rope. Yeah right, and he's got it.
He's going to hand spirit into the side of the shark.
No guns, no distance. We're gonna get up close and
personal and just ram it in there. But they've got
to lure the shark in, right, So how do they
lure the shark in? They dangle meet over the water,
not in the water, over the water, and it's only
once they see the shark already plowing through the water
towards them because it works. Why, I don't know, but
it works, and the shark's coming from it's at that
point that then they go ahead and decided to lower
the meat in and start humming along. And still even
though it's got the meat, it jumps up out of
the water to pose itself out just in time for
Jake to stab him in the side. Absurdity upon absurdity.
Speaker 5: Yes, and when he did it, I just like, you
get that little needle through his skin. Yeah, here's the harpoon,
for God's sake.
Speaker 4: Speaking of absurdities, What in the bleep is Ellen's plan
when she hijacks the boat to go take on the
fish out in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's the plan.
Speaker 5: I think to kill her. I think to kill herself.
Speaker 2: To appease She's the sacrificial sacrificial lamb?
Speaker 3: Is that? Is that the idea?
Speaker 2: She didn't explain it. He even says, what were you thinking?
And she's like, yeah, yeah, this is crazy.
Speaker 3: Why did you do this? She's like, it was the
only thing I could do.
Speaker 2: The exact opposite of Ellen, right, I mean, if you're
gonna pick a movie that you're gonna cheat off of
for the next summer season, do it right. Don't make
her a crazy lady who goes out with no plan
whatsoever by herself. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and then what's Hogy's plan. I'm going to
crash the plane into the water. Yeah, well, all together,
and it was ballsy, but it was also stupid. They'll
all be together, the big boat sink and the plane sink.
Speaker 2: So there was actually a decent jump scare in this movie.
There were a whole lot there enough, there was one
decent jump scaleel. It was the eel. The eel was
the scariest part in the movie because they did it right.
It was you didn't see it coming and then all
of a sudden, there it was. It wasn't a we're
gonna let you lead in and see the shark as
it swims along. I mean, shark was swimming like a
whale shark. It was like slow motion and we watched
it all in bright sunlight. That's not scary. That's you
showing me all of the imperfections of your mechanical shark.
So I think the second scariest scene is the banana boat.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yes, I agree.
Speaker 4: Fia is in peril at that moment, right.
Speaker 2: And and the and the shark coming up and getting her.
I think that's the best shark attack scene in the movie.
Speaker 5: I've ridden a banana boat once, and that movie was
in my mind the entire time.
Speaker 3: I never have and I never will because of this movie.
Speaker 6: It was close to the shore though, so it was
I was okay, hey, by the way, I sent you
a picture last night. Ellen gets mad at thea her
granddaughter for swinging over the water. Yes, get away from
there and cut that out. She's still dealing with her,
you know, the Lost person. I took a picture of
the video from that movie.
Speaker 3: That water is what eight inches deep.
Speaker 2: It's dangerous because you're gonna break your neck, You're.
Speaker 3: Gonna hit the rocks.
Speaker 5: S Yeah, there's a couple scenes at the end where
I don't know if the water looks like they're in
very shallow water. Yeah, Like I'm like, wait a minute,
the water's kind of green right there that you can
really see the algae. It was like, I think they're
kind of close to the shore. Hey, back on the
back on the defensive, low tide. Man draw drawn shot
of water, going to draw him in gonna I'm reaching.
Speaker 3: At this point, He's like this, this is not going
to hold up in court Johnson.
Speaker 2: So so we have the the esp premonition. She sees
banana boat happening, and her solution is to steal Neptune's Folly.
That's the name of the ship that's right. Steel Neptune's
folly go out by herself to try to track down
the shark with no other plan than that.
Speaker 3: No tools, no way of no no nothing.
Speaker 2: So then he shows back up, has to admit that
he knew about the shark the whole time. The the
big plan that he gets when he realizes his large
boat has been taken is he's going to take what
I can only describe as a flat bottom outboard motor.
You're never going to get there, and if you do,
the shark is going to eat it in one bite.
Speaker 3: You got a better idea, Yeah, let's fly the I'm
going to try and be again to defend some behaviors here.
But I'll ask you guys, because I'm I'm looking at
three fathers here. He comes home, thea's in shock, you know,
shark attack, and he's like, ah, we should have known,
and the astor reveal, yeah, we knew about this. You
guys are dad's Is this one of those situations where
you're not lying to your wife, You're just trying to
keep the family from freaking out? Or do you do
you disclose this immediately? Like, hey, I got attacked by
a shark today at work, and you should know, like,
what's the what's the call there?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 2: I thought you meant do you lie at that point?
Whenever that whenever your daughter's been attacked by the shark
and your wife is there consoling her. If I had lied,
if I had not mentioned the shark before, I would
have been like, there was a shark? What?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 5: I had no idea. He's not He's not lying this
type of thing. I wonder if Jake has any stuff on.
Speaker 3: The boat, we'll go find out, because he doesn't reveal
it immediately to his mom when they when they make
the daring plane crash and swim to the Neptune's folly,
He's more like, what are you doing? What were you thinking?
It's ludicrous?
Speaker 5: And then you have that overacting by Karla.
Speaker 3: I would say this, you know, as far as her
motivation for taking the boat out there, at this point
in the movie, she has got into her head that
this shark has killed her husband, her son, and it
just attacked her granddaughter.
Speaker 2: He wonder of a heart attack.
Speaker 3: He died from fear of fear. So I'm wondering if
her motivation stems from maybe she thinks if I just
give the shark. What at once, if I just sacrifice myself,
it'll leave my family alone. Maybe is that her motivation?
Speaker 4: Possibly if she would have said that, like I'm good
with it, just make that pronouncement, you know, yeah, this
is where I'm going, this is what I'm doing instead
of like just take the boat and just ride out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she has that not as good as Ripley
line where she's like get me.
Speaker 2: That would have that would have put her in kind
of that tougher category, like Ellen Ripley going out to
be the arcrificial lamb. I told you, it's just real
hard to buy that when she's got shoulder.
Speaker 5: Pads and that hair cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she takes off her I thought the jacket.
I was like, oh man, that's jacket's got some big
shoulder play. No, it's her shirt.
Speaker 3: That's the shirt.
Speaker 5: She took that and she takes off it.
Speaker 2: Was like where those shoulder pads are sewn in.
Speaker 3: She's right at home with Hawking Animal from the Road Warriors,
like you know, she's just missing the spikes. Hey, one
quick adjustment to that scene.
Speaker 4: If she would have grabbed like a massive harpoon gun
or like stole it from Jake's warehouse or something like that.
Speaker 3: A giant Wiley coyote, T and T box.
Speaker 4: I mean, just something showing she had a plan would
have been better than what we got in that scene.
Speaker 5: I almost feel I'll have to look at the cover
art again. I feel that there was a cover art
had a harpoon.
Speaker 4: She's got it, like a yeah she.
Speaker 3: Does right spear thing.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, I thought so, like you said, one of
those things we remember something that maybe didn't exist. But yeah,
I could have sworn she's got Yes, I knew it.
I knew it.
Speaker 3: Where's that scene?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been a movie worth watching.
Speaker 4: That shark is less out of the water than what happens.
Speaker 2: In the movie. Yeah, oh my gosh, I didn't even
realize that the shark it's the same image, listeners, Dear, listeners,
it is the same nose up image that is in
the original Jaws poster, except that the shark is out
of the water. Because in this movie the shark is
out of the water.
Speaker 5: Maybe that should have been the tagline instead of it's personal.
It should have been Jaws of revenge. Fish out of
the water.
Speaker 3: It Jaws the revenge.
Speaker 4: It's airborne yes, and air jaws.
Speaker 2: What's interesting if you guys have seen Planet Earth, like
my this was my son and I favorite part of
Planet Earth is where they have the great white sharks
jump out of the water and they will they total
like they toe a little seal behind them, and those
guys will blast full body out of the water and
it looks incredible. It's not the shark being out of
the water that's the weirdness about it. It's this random
device that Jake shoves down the shark's throat just before
he gets eaten, but not eating himself.
Speaker 5: Depending on which version you see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something that nobody's ever heard of, but that we
know will cause the shark to go crazy and jump
out of the water.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And those are I mean those are more or less.
Those are like d battery flashlights.
Speaker 5: He my girdn't crap a man.
Speaker 4: He yanked it out of his nineteen eighties boot make.
Speaker 5: Says it's gonna work. Then it's gonna work.
Speaker 2: So as there as the movie is climaxing as they
are headed nose first towards the shark and the shark
is roaring and Hogy is like turn about and she's
slapping his hand away from her steering wheel as she
steers towards it with Again, we have no idea what plan.
Speaker 4: By the way, the continuity in the scene is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2: She's had memories of things that she wasn't there for.
She's had a memory of Roy Scheider shooting the shark.
She wasn't there. She's having memories of Sean getting eaten
by the shark. She wasn't there. She's having memories of
the banana boat scene. I guess she was there, but
she wasn't from the shark's perspective.
Speaker 4: It's the Mandela effects again.
Speaker 2: Oh and then when you have the attack. When you
have the attack and all of this happening, another terrible
direction is you get a reaction shot from all three
other people on the boat. It's like Mike's reaction, duh
Ellen's reaction, duh Hogy's reaction, dun duh. Then we're back
to Jake and he's still getting to eat in. And
then it's Mike's reaction, dun duh Ellen's reaction, dun du
Hogy's reaction. I'm like, guys, do one at a time.
Let's speed this up. It's called a jump cut. Let's
make it, move it along. This is supposed to be action,
not let's see what everybody thinks. Yeah, all right, a
little a little excited there, apologist came down down. It's
a little frustrated.
Speaker 3: It's it's a pacing issue. It does kind of They're like,
come on.
Speaker 4: It should have sped it up, just like they did
the refrigerator scene.
Speaker 5: Well, if if I'm ever to do some kind of
art project where you know, the city or you know
is going to dedicate this and use this as a
landmark on a thing, my daughter is not gonna go
banana boating while I'm getting my thing done. I'm like, no,
you're gonna wait until I'm done with this thing. Your
father didn't show up, Jake didn't show up. You're gonna
stay here. You watch me accept this award for this.
Speaker 3: It's good, you know.
Speaker 5: I'm just like, can I go banana button?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: We're in the middle of something right this. Yeah, can
we even know we're at the beach. This isn't a
day at the beach. Everyone's dressed up and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh we go banana bu.
Speaker 4: Wherever?
Speaker 3: Can Can I just say something about, uh, this terrific
art piece? Tourist on the loose, Yes, because that's what
it's called. This is this is something I don't like,
and I get it. Sometimes you have to do a
little bit exposition for the audience, but but don't treat
us like we're idiots. So it is clearly a sculpture
of a great white shark. Clearly it is not tourists
on the loose. The last time I was insulted like
this was was Bob Kilmer looking at clearly at a
portrait of a bat and going, what do you have?
What's your thing with bats? And Chase Murden and going, uh,
that's a rorshack. What question is what do you have
with bats? It's that's that's a bat. Okay, this is
a shark. Don't call it tourists on loose. It's clearly
a shark.
Speaker 5: I think it looks like female genitalia. It just looks
like anatomy. I'm just like, I was like, she just
I was like, I think this is what are you
talking about? That sculpture is just hideous.
Speaker 2: People work is strongly vaginal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was just like, what is this.
Speaker 2: To say that some people vagina?
Speaker 3: I didn't. I'll watch it listen. I love this, but
like I said, I love the movie. I'll watch it
plenty more times. I'll be looking for that take on
the sculpture next time I watch it.
Speaker 5: Now, not that I would ever buy this film, but
if I were to buy this film, which version am
I going to get?
Speaker 2: Then that's the thing you will get, the exploding shark version.
You have to do YouTube the theatrical version to get it.
They they believed that they could fix all of their
problems on the DVD by changing the ending having the
shark explode, which, of course they didn't actually have the
shark explode. They just cut in scenes from the original
Jaws with the exploding shark and having that tank down
to the bottom. And they thought they that they could
fix the other problem by bringing Jake back, Yeah, unharmed.
Speaker 3: The mega terrific happy ending. Yeah yeah, that's right. Yeah,
And I was happy to see Jake Beck.
Speaker 4: But I'm still like, huh, that is ludicrous, man, he
was in the job.
Speaker 2: It's not him.
Speaker 3: It was very obviously not him. It was just double Well.
If you watch it, here's I don't even have to say.
Speaker 2: If you watch carefully, if you are myopic, you can
tell that that is not people's in that shark's mouth.
Speaker 3: That is very true. Look, you know, if you want
to recut it, that's fine, but do us the service
at least of seeing him fall in the water and
not watching him go for the thrill ride underwater where
blood is hemorrhaging from the fox's mouth, him in it,
his lifeless body, right, and Jaws, you know, Quin cranks
up the portable shower of the monkey cage, you know,
anti shark cage, and we see it's been torn apart.
If it's your first time, you assume Hooper is dead,
so it's refreshing exactly exactly. Let Jake go underwater, and
it's like, we just let's just assume. Okay, Yeah, that's fine.
I would have been okay with that. But there's no
you know, Jason, you sent that photo earlier this week.
There's no way he's surviving that. And even if even
if he's conscious in the water, he's dying within minutes
once they pull him all because he's bleeding out. He
just is.
Speaker 2: I mean, if they're going to re edit it anyway,
just remove the scenes where it's so obvious that he
would be dead, right, that's all you gotta do. But
what happened was they put him coming back in and
somebody I know that, somebody said, look, there's no way
he could survive this. We got to take these scenes out.
And somebody with higher power said no, no, no, no, those
are great effects. We don't want to lose that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, genies only slightly less ridiculous than that would be
if Sean popped up and be.
Speaker 6: Like, hey, guys, have no arm.
Speaker 3: Arm it's feeling much better.
Speaker 2: Okay. So that brings us brings me to the question
that I posed on our last episode, which is, do
you think that you could re edit this movie and
make it a good movie or someone with you know
editing shops good?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yes, yes, because we know there is footage that
we could use.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, the parts in between the effects shots are good. Yeah,
unlike Superman four.
Speaker 2: Right, but you have to but you still have story
fixing that you have to do. It is no matter
no matter what you do, you cannot say that the
shark swims from Martha's vineyard, Emity Island, whatever, down to
the Bahamas. That's not reasonable, that's not possible. So you
have to you have to make some adjustment says to
where things occur. So that's a pretty easy fix. Mike
is down in the Bahamas right right when he gets
attacked by a shark, and it's not the same shark.
Let's just say that. Let's just change it from a
great white into I don't know, a bull shark, the
most dangerous shark as far as human attacks go. Anyway,
change the shark. What's wrong with that? Nothing?
Speaker 3: Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2: But I told Jason, I thought that this story, if
you took the shark parts out, which are the absolute
worst parts, if you took it out, it could be
very interesting as a is this woman crazy or is
she right? I think that you could have had a
great storyline where she thinks that the shark has followed
them and they're like trying to They're like, that's not reasonable.
It would take two months for the shark to swim here.
Sharks don't take things personally and do all of that.
But then also have the storyline of, well, but there
is actually a shark out there that's costing it. It
just it's not the same.
Speaker 5: It's not the same one.
Speaker 4: Hey, before we do our final judgment, I have to
ask you, yes something, how many of you guys played
the Jaws game?
Speaker 3: This was one of my favorite games on the Nintendo
Entertainment System. It took me several months to beat it
because if you have played it, then you know you're,
you know, moving the boat around. Jaws pops up. It
immediately drops you into the ocean and you got to
fight crabs and you know other fish, but you keep
wounding Jaws with your harpoon gun and then once Jaws
is hurt enough, then you have to try and stab
it with the boat like like Ellen does. And it's
all a matter of perfect timing. It's like it's like
beating Tyson and Mike Tyson's punch out. It all comes
down to his split second timing. It took me three
months to beat that game. But the day I stabbed
the shark and it got it, I it was. It
was a great day in the Johnson Household.
Speaker 4: Game Final judgment. We are down now to our final judgment.
Speaker 7: Hey Dan, Jason John Reid from the thirty something movie
podcast and podcast Full of Kryptonite, which I joyfully host
with you guys. Super excited that you asked me to
pop in for a surely showcase for your showdown between
Jaws The Revenge and Superman four so pitting these two
movies against each other is really like taking a couple
of rock and sock them robots that are both half broken.
The springs are not really working so well anymore, the
punches don't seem to land, and we're going to make
them duke it out until one of them dies. So
I'm looking first at Jaws the Revenge, which admittedly I
have not seen quite as much as Superman Four. Being
a huge Superman fan, I have watched Superman four an
outrageous number of times. But Jaws the Revenge, how far
the Mighty had fallen. When I think of Jaws the Revenge,
I think of a few different things. I think of
some kind of weird mental telepathy that you can have
with sharks to know when they are about to strike
a member of your family. I think of the fact
that we have a shark explode when no explosive element
has really been introduced. How we have Michael Kine. There's
another thing. You're pitting Michael Caine against Christopher Reeve, which
not since the likes of Death Trap or Noises Off,
have we have such a Michael Kane Christopher Reeve one
two punch here Unfortunately not in the same movie this
time around. When I think of Jaws the Revenge, I
think of the idea of a shark getting revenge on
the family of the person that killed it and the
rest of its family, and I don't know where to
go with that. It makes me think of what a
wise man once said, ah Dan Jason, my old friends,
the great White proverb that tells us revenge is a
dish that is best served cold. It is very cold
in the ocean, and I am very cold on Jaws
the Revenge. So Superman four has a very special place
in my heart.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 7: It's probably the part of my heart that has the
most cholesterol built up in it. But Superman four, I
remember loving it as a kid. As I have grown
up and then watched it again, I recognize it for
the dumpster fire that it is. And it's kind of
funny to go back and watch it now and see
when the Cannon Film Group got the rights to this,
took it over and just did not provide Christopher Reeve,
I think, is quoted in some of his own biographies
as saying that the budget was yanked out from underneath them,
and they didn't have the money to be able to
do what they needed to do, which to me is
a shame because this was kind of a passion project
of his, like he wanted to talk about the idea
of a nuclear disarmament, and it really comes across as
an unfinished movie, and it probably actually was. It kind
of seems to negate the whole Superman lois amnesia kiss,
which he uses here just for kicks, just to have
somebody to talk to for a minute. And then there's
kind of a scene where she's like, now I remember everything.
So does the kiss not work? I don't know, I'm
not sure. We also learned that you can re constitute
the Great Wall of China with a point of your finger,
superpower that has never been displayed before or since Nuclear Man.
I love Nuclear Man as a villain. So I mean,
is it a stupid movie, Yes, it's a stupid movie.
Is it a poorly put together movie? Yes, it's a
poorly put together movie. But knowing that this is something
that Christopher Reeve was passionate about, knowing that it had
so much potential, I am between the two. I'm gonna
have to go with Superman four because it is of
the two, it is it is the most craptastic, and
that's gonna be my final thought.
Speaker 5: Again.
Speaker 7: Thank you guys so much for letting me jump in
here on the Shirley show Case. Love your show, Love
what you guys are doing. Can't wait to hear what
is coming up next, and we'll be talking to you soon.
Speaker 4: Brad, why don't you go first give us your final
judgment between Superman four The Quest for Piece Jaws the
Revenge two stinkers from nineteen eighty seven, Ready said dot.
Speaker 5: I can't believe I'm gonna do this because I'm such
a big Superman fan. Jaws four is more watchable. Both
of them are ridiculous, but I found myself cringing at
parts of Superman four from It's a cringing at parts
of Jaws as well. But it was also, I think
right now, like as it was watching Shark Week, I
watched Yawn. You know it's it's summer. Maybe the atmosphere
of the Bahamas made it a little bit more fun.
It felt summer movie esque. So Jaws The Revenge awesome,
even though I preferred Jaws three.
Speaker 3: All right, Jeff, you're up, Bud, all right? So final judgment,
Superman The Quest for Peace versus Jaws Revenge. To all
you thinking Superman is the better film and my worst
HOGI impression, impression, give it a kick in the offs,
Jawls with a Revenge is by far the better film.
When you rack these two up, wow, it just is.
It's not even close. And I am a I've been
a I've been a diehard Superman fan since my mom
introduced me to the character when I was six years old.
And I love Superman. I've loved all the iterations good
and bad, but I cannot defend the Quest for Peace,
especially when it's going up against the Revenge.
Speaker 2: Y're up, Okay, yes, this is the easy one for me,
and it's the same as you guys. Jaws The Revenge
is a much more watchable movie than Superman Question Piece.
And I think about the fact that we are all
diehard Superman fans, and I think that is probably why
Superman Question Piece is so offensive to us. It's like,
if you hear someone singing extremely off key but singing
your favorite song, You're like, you're ruining it. You are
ruining it, and then that's the last time you get
to hear that song. Yeah, well said, that makes it murderous.
But even if I didn't have that, even if I
didn't have that strong connection, I mean, the fact is
is that Jaws the Revenge has some very watchable moments,
very well acted, directed and put together moments. It's just
overall very very poor. Yeah, yeah, so definitely picking Jaws
Revenge as the better of those two.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I guess it's down to me.
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, I'm going to make this a four some
across the board. Jaws the Revenge is clearly the better
of these two movies. It's way more fun, it's way
better to look at. Superman four is like your parents
getting divorced, Like everyone has hard feelings, everyone's sad, it
didn't work out, and it just it's just a big
dumpster far Jaws the Revenge is like having a fling
on vacation. It didn't really work out, but you're you're
having fun. You're on vacation. You know, you're you're having
a good time or whatever, and it just didn't quite
work out. And that's the way I feel about these
two movies.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I will let you know that you can come sleep
at my house. After Kathy listens to this house. Oh
it's like having a fling, a flaying of.
Speaker 4: Just saying said you guys edit a lot, right, guys,
Thank you so much for joining us. This has been
a tremendous amount of fun. Again, listeners, go check these
guys out at a film by podcast. If you are
not listening to them, it's tragic. They do great stuff
over there. I look forward to your show every Tuesday morning.
Thank you again for being with us.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys so much fun. Thank you for having us.
We loved it.
Speaker 2: Guys, be sure and follow them on whatever your podcast
app of choice is. Give them a five star rating,
give them a review. If you want to throw one
in for us too, we would truly appreciate it. You
can check us all out on Twitter. We're at Shirly
Podcasts on Twitter. These guys are at a Film Buy
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a whole lot of fun. So come join the fun
with us, and we look forward to seeing you guys
the next episode.
Speaker 3: You