WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.519 --> 00:00:12.359 The human guinea pig stuff in Africa. 2 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:19.800 It's so insane. 3 00:00:38.079 --> 00:01:37.159 It's so insane, so insane. 4 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:33.640 It is so insane. 5 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:49.760 Fuck up, fuck of Boo, Fuco, fuck of bo. 6 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:04.640 I got married. I got married to a funk Oh. 7 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:14.360 We got wedded, come joint in the subway, he shot, Oh, well. 8 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:20.120 I am married. I'm married to. 9 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:20.879 My funk o. 10 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:28.680 But do we get joined? Go white as soon as 11 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:29.840 subway he shot? 12 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:37.000 Four specimens and biscuits and minerals they come to even 13 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.639 to my whole life is spit go. 14 00:02:40.759 --> 00:03:03.120 To m mother, rather offer I'm married to I don't hooper. 15 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:11.080 We got wedded, but we got joining in the subway, 16 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:12.879 shut over the road. 17 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.800 Visiting and minerals they come to you visit it and 18 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.759 minerals they come from it too. 19 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:30.280 Don't talk about for. 20 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:37.520 Buck. 21 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:53.240 I got married, I got married to my don't go hooper. 22 00:03:53.879 --> 00:04:01.919 Oh we got wedded. Ah we get joy says shocking. 23 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.960 First sight, first sight? What should I do with the 24 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.479 first sight? Put it in my head, throw it on 25 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.039 the ground, and who knows? Just what will I do? 26 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:17.360 Sweet? 27 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:21.319 How you joined me as some way? 28 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:22.959 Shut love. 29 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:44.120 The human guinea pig stuff in Africa, It's so insane. 30 00:04:53.959 --> 00:05:08.959 The human guinea pig stuff in Africa. 31 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:18.800 Oh yeah, welcome to a nice cozy evening with me. 32 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:24.439 You're not gonna get me being weird. You're not gonna 33 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:29.240 get me being spurgy and energetic. You're gonna get me 34 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.560 being very calm and very loving with you. 35 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:38.240 I'm not gonna be debating. I'm gonna be calm, and 36 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:43.000 I'm gonna be soothing. I'm gonna soothe you. So instead 37 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.360 of debating, we're just gonna listen to me say the 38 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:58.160 word sooth. So is that the kind of asthma that 39 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:05.319 you like? Do you all like the asthma? Welcome everyone 40 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:09.959 to evening debate time. That was all not true. Everything 41 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.000 I said was complete lies, disinformation, and deception, straight from 42 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:17.560 the source. It's an evening debate. Everyone was so used 43 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:22.600 to my afternoon debates that I thought I'd throw a 44 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:25.000 curve ball at your face. Now you don't know what 45 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:30.519 to do. Now you're over there shaking, shaking in your crib, 46 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:35.399 shaking in your adult diapers because you're a gamer, and 47 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:36.959 you don't need to get up to go to the 48 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:43.680 bathroom because you're gaming, pooping yourself like a Matt Delon monkey. 49 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:51.279 Evolutionary being, achieving ascendency, achieving initiation into the mystery of 50 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:56.120 the maya maya being the illusion, the illusion that you're 51 00:06:56.160 --> 00:07:03.199 all encapsulated in the matrix. AKA. Today we're going to 52 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:07.319 break the matrix by breaking your mind, by breaking your psyche, 53 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.839 but breaking your soul, because we're going to open up 54 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.959 to debate. There's nothing more contrary to the ethos of 55 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:19.920 our era, of our society, of our times than this old, forgotten, 56 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.040 dusty ass art of debate, which nobody believes is an 57 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:32.319 art anymore. And that's why even though I debate all 58 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.600 these people, nobody really cares that you would debate. The 59 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.240 debate is not seen as anything debates. What is that 60 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.439 People think debate is arguing No, no, no, it's proving your 61 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:53.040 case through abstract mental chess games. That's what I like 62 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:58.240 to think of it as it's thought chess. I saw 63 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:02.199 videos of people playing chess, and I thought, that's what 64 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:11.920 debates are. Debates are mind chess, mind chess. Now we're 65 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.839 pretty fair, I would say. Over here on my channel, 66 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.680 we've been opening it up to debate for many years now, 67 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:25.959 almost two three times every week, and it's a lot 68 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:28.759 of fun. Sometimes I get tired of it gets old 69 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.879 because it's usually the same old stuff, you know. It's 70 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:37.399 sort of like everybody's just rehashing crap that they just 71 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.679 heard for the first time, and they don't even realize 72 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:42.720 that what you just heard has already been addressed like 73 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.200 five hundred times and you just didn't know. So but 74 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:51.200 that's the nature of the game. That's where we're at this. 75 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:52.519 But video popped up. 76 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.000 And I'm like, what is this? And so this random 77 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:57.919 I don't know. He looks like a worship leader. He 78 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:02.840 looks like he would be I don't know the he's 79 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:08.279 the stuntman for Scott stat Can you treat me higher? 80 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.519 Cool a parish? 81 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:17.000 We're blind man and shee. But he is a convert. 82 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:21.879 His name is Keith, not Keith Urban and not Keith Chief, 83 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:27.600 Keith Nestor. No idea who this person is. He's already 84 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:33.320 got merch. He's the next level three thousand, six hundred convert. 85 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:39.799 He's part of the Rosary Crew, the Rosary Crew talk 86 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:41.440 about cringe. Dude, let's go ahead and give this a 87 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.519 thumbs down right here. And he's gonna tell us what 88 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:49.879 convinced him Catholicism. How there's all these killer arguments. We're 89 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.000 gonna make this quick as this kind of our introduction. 90 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.320 Of course, it's not restricted to Catholic stuff today. We're 91 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.600 gonna be talking about any topics you want to bring 92 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:05.879 to the table, Baby, you want to bring into the spotlight. 93 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:10.840 And of course Apple update made my volume all. 94 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.200 The way low. 95 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.360 I'm sorry for y'all, but you just had to turn 96 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.799 up me singing. So we got Scott Stapp over here, 97 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:23.960 converted and he's gonna tell us his reasons. And it's 98 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:27.440 just a little frustrating, honestly, because you know, I look 99 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:31.759 at this channel and this is a pretty recent video 100 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:36.360 a few months ago, what two hundred something two quarter 101 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:40.039 of a million views on this low tier stuff. Come 102 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:46.759 over here, and we got Bobby's perspective mega grifter from 103 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:50.679 two three years ago. He's still going strong. Look at 104 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:53.440 the Look at the kind of garbage Bobby has on 105 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:58.720 his channel. First of all, we've got this nonsense about 106 00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.440 sam Shamun is caught lying because Sam she Mun says 107 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:08.519 Allah is Satan, but the word can also refer to God, 108 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.080 as in God of the Bible, and Bobby thinks this 109 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.399 is like a massive own. This has one hundred and 110 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:17.159 sixty six thousand views. We come over here, what is 111 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:22.240 Bobby uploading Islam and ayahuasca? You can't make this stuff up. 112 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:27.200 I mean, we are literally dealing with just armies of 113 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:31.159 dummies that are everywhere. And I don't know what to 114 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.679 do here because people are getting so dumb that, let's say, 115 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.720 for the sake of argument, I refute fifty dummies in 116 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.200 a five hour livestream. People are so dumb they can't 117 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:49.080 even see and know the dummies got refuted. People are 118 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:54.399 so dumb they can't recognize bad arguments, are people losing debates? 119 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.440 And also they don't even care. For example, many things 120 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.360 have happened over the years that you would have thought 121 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:04.200 would end a person's career, like you would think that 122 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.639 Taylor Marshall is saying that Mary appeared to him in 123 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.679 a vision and he saw giant breast milkers and that 124 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.679 was some object less envisioned. No, no, no, His channel 125 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.639 grew tremendously. So it's almost like the dumber you are, 126 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.519 the stupider your stuff is, the more hard headed you are, 127 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:24.759 the more you're actually exposed and refuted, the better you 128 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:29.440 are off. I mean, Hawk Tua is now she's probably 129 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.399 gonna do better now that she had a giant rug 130 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:39.519 poke coin. Everything is in working opposite in this we're 131 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:45.159 in upside down world. We somehow went through the stranger things, 132 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.799 but whole dimension to the other side, and everything isn't verse, 133 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:52.159 everything's reverse. So the stupider you are, the more ridiculous 134 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.720 you are, the more you get refuted, the more people 135 00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:01.039 will listen to you. What And also, of course I 136 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.200 suspect I can't prove it, but I think these kinds 137 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:12.000 of things are given boosts, right, boosting the algo. So 138 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:17.440 when he was a vegan pseudo Orthodox channel, he had 139 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.360 like fifty thousand subscribers. And then when he started to 140 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:26.000 tell you not believe in the Trinity anymore, I did 141 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:28.759 not even know that Orthodox who he was the teaching 142 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.600 of the Trinity. So he's supposedly a cradle Orthodox and 143 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.919 he didn't know that it taught the Trinity. Uh So 144 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:40.159 then he realized if he grifts with a bunch of 145 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.960 Islam videos, he would appeal to this rising, giant horde 146 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:51.480 of idiots that believe Islam and believe the low tier 147 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:56.000 stuff that they push. And you know, unfortunately it's not 148 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.840 much better for the Catholic side of things. I mean, 149 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.480 I would say that the Catholic YouTubers are at least 150 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:10.279 more intelligent on the average, But the quality of the argumentation, 151 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:18.720 oh my gosh, like it's just so it's so low tire, 152 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:20.559 and I'm just at an impasse. I don't know what 153 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:24.799 to do. How do you combat super dumb arguments that 154 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.159 convince hordes of people to believe dumb stuff? Like what's 155 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.480 the solution here? I'm not sure how to People are saying, 156 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.720 debate me. This is for you, dummy, this is why 157 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.159 you can hop on tonight. You're telling me to debate you. 158 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.200 These streams are for you to come debate me right here, 159 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:49.279 here's the link, call in right there. What's the solution? 160 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.639 We have a really smart audience? Does a collective audience 161 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.440 have a solution here? How do you combat millions of idiots? 162 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:02.159 I don't know, because you can't make them smart. And 163 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:04.000 it's almost like it doesn't matter how many times you've 164 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:07.960 been correct, how many times people have been demonstrated to 165 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:12.799 be just complete bozos, complete goobers like that, it just 166 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:20.679 marches on. So, like, what is the secret to helping 167 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:27.360 many people understand? Is it simpler? Videos. Are we too cerebral? 168 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:30.200 I know it's I understand prayer, So thank you all. 169 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.399 You have very pious people. I'm speaking at the level 170 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:39.759 of compacting and packaging information. Is that what it is? 171 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.799 Because I mean, is this guy winning over here with 172 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.879 his numbers on his video because he did too many rosaries? 173 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:48.440 Like is that what you're saying? Like he prayed a 174 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:55.039 lot more than I'm joking, But more people have to 175 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:58.399 speak up. Well, it's good that we're getting more clergy 176 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.960 and priests doing this kind of stuff then used to 177 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:02.919 you know, in twenty seventeen eighteen, there was hardly any 178 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:04.519 and now we got a lot more clergy trying to 179 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:09.080 do this stuff, which is good. Hey, Jamie, could you 180 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:17.799 make me an expresso? Thank you? Signs of the times 181 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.919 could be somebody said, just talk from your toilet probably 182 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.559 would get way more subscribers. 183 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:26.000 Like toilet bowl pologetics. 184 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:31.159 Right, I'm serious, Like you would probably get like your 185 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:35.440 channel would blow up doing a poop apologetics on the toilet, right, 186 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:42.720 like one minute TikTok videos. Anyway, I don't know, maybe 187 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.519 there's not a solution. Maybe it's like we're just doomed 188 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:54.679 with dummies or something. Like dummy doom, dummy doom. Anyway, 189 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.679 So again, so people in the chat, we're gonna do it. 190 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.919 It's a cozy evening debate stream because I was in 191 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.360 the mood. I just saw so much stupid stuff on 192 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.119 Twitter today and then these these videos popping up in 193 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:13.400 my feed and I'm like what. And there's a bunch 194 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:15.400 more too. I noticed a bunch of other dumb videos 195 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.559 popping up. It's just today we want to combat the idiocy, 196 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:24.519 the idiocracy, combating idiocracy today. We already got five people 197 00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:30.279 in the queue here. Let's hear a couple arguments here 198 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.079 from Scott's Stapp as to why he converted. 199 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.759 Is Catholicism based on circular reasoning? 200 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:39.319 What is circular reasoning? 201 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.880 Sometimes I get this, well, this is INtime because this 202 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.359 is a thing I said in a video many years 203 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.279 ago one of my early critiques of Rome, I talked 204 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:52.160 about the papacy being circular. Let's see if that's where 205 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:59.200 freaking I can't say he is Billy Ray Stap. 206 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.680 Scott cyrus over her injection to some of my videos 207 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.279 where people say things like, well, you're just saying the 208 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.319 Catholic Church is true because the Catholic Church says it's true. 209 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:10.720 Is that a circular argument. 210 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:13.839 Yes, Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy in which the 211 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.799 reasoner begins with what they're trying to end with. And 212 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.359 circular reasoning is an argument where the premises are just 213 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.119 as much in need of the proof or evidence as 214 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:27.400 the conclusion. Is this what Catholicism teaches? Are we exposed here? 215 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.720 I think we need to look at this. A circular 216 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:33.160 argument when it comes to Catholicism would look something like this. 217 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.839 I'm already starting to WinCE and cringe because I already 218 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:40.920 feel like this is gonna be way more low tier 219 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.480 than I expected. I was a little impressed that he 220 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.480 started off with dealing with a fallacy, but I'm afraid 221 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.839 it's gonna go downhill. Let's see, catholic. 222 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:54.160 Church is true because the truth is Catholicism. That would 223 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:58.039 be a circular argument. The conclusion is dependent on the premise. 224 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:03.240 Is this what Cathosis does? Are the arguments for Catholicism 225 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.640 just simply based on Catholicism is true because what it 226 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.079 says about itself. I say, no way. 227 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.480 Is he sitting there with like his drum? Is that 228 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.359 a drum set in the background or some kind of 229 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:24.920 weird drink dispenser. And who is this person? Like, is 230 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.599 he some kind of musician or something like? What is 231 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:31.240 this a rock star who became a Roman Catholic? Who 232 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:37.119 is this dude a former pastor? Oh my gosh, So 233 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.799 here we go. So he had to shift his ministry 234 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:54.480 into papism, So here we go. 235 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.240 Claims for truth are not based solely on what it 236 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:01.480 says about itself, but rather on the Bible, history, reason, 237 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:04.319 and ultimately faith. So I'm going to break down the 238 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.160 case for Catholicism one by one here, and I'm going 239 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:08.200 to begin with the Bible. 240 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:13.359 But wait a minute, So there is actually an element 241 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:17.559 of circularity here because, as is often utilized by Roman 242 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:21.240 Catholic apologists, they will say, well, the Bible is actually 243 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.920 true and we know what it is because of the papacy. 244 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.279 We would not have the Bible without the papacy telling 245 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.160 us what the Bible is. That's a classic Roman Catholic argument. So, 246 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.160 depending upon where he goes with this argument, that actually 247 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.480 would be a circular argument. If he goes the route 248 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.519 of saying that if you're a Protestant, you need the 249 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.599 papacy to know the Bible But wait a minute, the 250 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.799 papacy is proven. You're arguing here, and as many Roman 251 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.640 Catholics city from the Bible, so that would actually be 252 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.519 a circular self referencing argument. 253 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.559 Hey, Keith, the Catholic Church is not in the Bible. 254 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.319 I hear this all the time. Where are the words 255 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:57.759 Roman Catholic in the Bible. 256 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:04.559 Well, Keith, you're just assuming that the Bible is when 257 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:08.400 it refers to the one universal body, that it's the 258 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:13.079 Franco Latin papal Church. In the first centuries of Christianity, 259 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.119 especially up into the Ecumenical councils, the locus of Christianity 260 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:22.119 was in the Eastern Byzantine Empire. All the ecumenical councils 261 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.599 were in the East and had pretty much nothing to 262 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.599 do with Rome itself until later in six forty nine, 263 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:34.119 where the Pope first tried to call his own ecumenical 264 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.640 council without any reference to an emperor. Roman Catholics do 265 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:42.480 not count later in six forty nine as an ecumenical council, 266 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.960 which they ought to do if the Roman Catholic principles 267 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.359 of Vatican One were the case. In the first thousand years, 268 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:55.039 whereby the papacy determines the true and false councils, so 269 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:58.440 already from the outset, Keith has no idea actually about 270 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:03.359 the progress of the early Catholic Church into the later 271 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.799 medieval East West split in ten fifty four between the 272 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:12.200 Eastern Church, the Buzinessing Empire, the other the Four Patriarchs, 273 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:16.559 and the Franco Latin Papal soon to be Church. 274 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.440 Is that objection alone enough to blow up my argument 275 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.359 for some maybe, but I suspect. 276 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.319 By the way, that is not my opinion. That is 277 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:30.079 two day's top Catholic scholars like Devornik or Kongar to 278 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:31.519 write about that they. 279 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:33.640 Would be in trouble if they apply that same standard 280 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.000 to themselves. I mean, where is independent fundamentalist Baptist King 281 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.599 James only or reformed Calvinists found in the Bible. There 282 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.440 are many things not explicitly mentioned in the Bible that 283 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.359 these same objectors will usually accept the Trinity. 284 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.680 Well, that's true, but that does not lead to the 285 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:55.440 conclusions that Vatican One's teachings, nor that the Franco Latin 286 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.000 Papal dogmas from the first thousand years and the second 287 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.599 millennium are found in them Bible either or that they're 288 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.200 true or that just because, in other words, it doesn't 289 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:08.960 follow that because something is or isn't mentioned in scripture, 290 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:13.960 then that you could erect an evolving dogmatic tradition outside 291 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:17.200 of the scriptures either. So this is a two pronged problem. 292 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.160 If you go the route of saying that, well, not 293 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.920 everything that's dogma is in scripture, which we would believe, 294 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:27.200 we would agree as Orthodox, but what that means is 295 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.720 very ambiguous until you start to pin down what the 296 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.680 romancalogy means on those topics, on those subjects with specificity. 297 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:39.119 And these pap apologists never go into the actual documents 298 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.880 of Vatican One or Vatican two. They only repeat pop 299 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.559 apologetics because that's all they know. And this poor guy, 300 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.880 which I've been exactly in the same situation he's in. 301 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.720 I was a Protestant who became Roman Catholic in two 302 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.519 thousand and three from these kinds of pop papal arguments, 303 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:59.079 and I was duped by fake papal quote minds. That 304 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.640 was one of the reasons I went into it. I 305 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.160 thought a lot of those papal quote minds were legit, 306 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:05.519 and later I found out they weren't, where they were 307 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.720 out of context or They didn't tell the whole story, 308 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:12.799 the whole picture, and they also didn't prove or demonstrate 309 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.559 what Vatican one claims. Hence why rom Catholicism argues for 310 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:19.000 doctrinal development, eventually. 311 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.359 The canon of the Bible, the sinner's prayer. Those are 312 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:24.559 just some examples, but I don't want to play that game. 313 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.519 Using a Lowsi argument to expose another Lowsy argument is 314 00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:32.319 sometimes necessary, but it really doesn't get us anywhere. Whenever 315 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:35.160 someone fires up the where's that in the Bible argument, 316 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:40.279 I prepare for not getting anywhere. Usually these arguments evolve into, well, 317 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.359 that's not what that means. For example, when arguing for 318 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:46.519 apostolic succession based on the Bible, I take people to 319 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.279 Acts chapter one, where the apostles literally chose a successor 320 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.559 to Judas is Scariot because Peter applies the scripture from 321 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:57.000 Psalm one oh nine, let another his office take as 322 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.799 the reason to elect Matthias to his office. 323 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:01.359 That's a pretty clear cut. 324 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.160 Example, sure, but I rarely hear someone go, oh, you 325 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.960 got me on that one. They instead argue, well, that's 326 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:09.440 not what that means. We can do the same thing 327 00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:13.079 about Mary's immaculate conception, which is rooted in Gabriel's greeting 328 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.480 to her in Luke one twenty eight and in what 329 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:17.880 God said to the serpent in Genesis three point fifteen 330 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:20.880 about the woman who would have enmity with him. 331 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.799 Who's wait a minute, where's immaculate conception in either of 332 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:26.000 those passages. 333 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:26.599 See would crush his head? 334 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:28.920 Yeah, but that isn't Where do you get that that's 335 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.680 immaculate conception? So he's not even aware of the divergence 336 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.359 between East and West on this issue. Nor is he aware, 337 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:40.839 apparently that you do not find immaculate conception in the 338 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:43.559 first several centuries of christian It's a very late idea. 339 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:48.359 In fact, even the Eastern Catholic churches still retain the 340 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.119 feast of her dor mission meaning her going to sleep, 341 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:54.079 meaning she died, meaning that she's a daughter of Adam 342 00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.599 who experienced the effects of sin like everyone else. As Orthodox, 343 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.160 we also agree that does not mean that Mary he 344 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.400 became a sinner. She is a spotless virgin, but spotless 345 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.319 virgin does not equate to immaculate conception, which would have 346 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.519 exempted her from the effects of original sin, namely death. 347 00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.599 But even they celebrate her going to sleep her death, 348 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.960 so she's not exempted from original sin, and the immaculate 349 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.880 conception doctrine is also bound up with the Augustinian doctrine 350 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.519 of inherited guilt. That's the early origins of the idea. 351 00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:30.279 I'm not saying that Augustine taught necessarily immaculate conception. 352 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.920 All that you did this is a clear reference to Mary, who, 353 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.960 if she were born into sin, would have at one 354 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.279 point in time been an enemy of God rather than Satan. 355 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.160 No, this is still based on the assumption that being 356 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.440 born in sin in some way is a bound up 357 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.599 with inherited guilt. Only the Orthodox Church maintains the ancient 358 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.839 Patristic teaching, and you'll notice that no church fathers, probably 359 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:55.960 to Augustine, taught that infants had guilt. Why is Augustine 360 00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:59.000 the first church father to speak of in an explicit 361 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.200 way in having the guilt of Adam. If you read 362 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.279 The City of God and other writings that we've covered 363 00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:07.759 extensively on my channel over the years, you'll notice that 364 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.039 Augustine makes it very clear that he believes that all 365 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:13.359 men were in Adam as in an archetype, and he 366 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:15.720 calls them the mass down nod of the damned Mass. 367 00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.519 That's the basis for why he thought everyone was guilty 368 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:24.599 for Adam's sin, even an infant, even a zygote. But 369 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:29.319 no other church fathers ever taught this. Were they all Pallagian? No, 370 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.000 But they understood as Ezekiel says, you're not guilty for 371 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:36.079 the sins of your father's until you commit an actual sin. 372 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.279 The Roman Colloty Church eventually even qualified and rejected the 373 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.799 notion of inherited guilt. Yet the argumentation that they use 374 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:50.279 to prove immaculate conception, ironically still goes back to these 375 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:54.599 confusions of inherited guilt and actual sin. You do not 376 00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:59.960 have guilt until you sin. Actually, you're not sin actually 377 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.359 until you are able to sin with will and reasoning. 378 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.279 That does not mean that infants are quote guiltless, or 379 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:09.680 that they don't have the effects of adam sin. They 380 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.920 have the effects, but not the guilt. That's why so 381 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.559 many church fathers. As you read, if you get really 382 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:18.119 get into the church fathers, you'll notice that many of 383 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:23.119 them quite often have no qualms about calling infants innocent children, 384 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.799 innocent babies, innocent infants. In fact, there's a feast the 385 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:33.240 murder when the murder of the forty innocence. They're called 386 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:36.519 the feasts of the murder of innocence? Why are they 387 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:39.839 called the feast of innocence forty or whatever? 388 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:40.119 Many? 389 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:44.240 It was murdered infants if they have actual guilt, Well 390 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.559 they don't, and so this is a distinction that's later 391 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:52.160 confused in later Latin theology, which leads to the Augustinian doctrines, 392 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:53.720 which the rest of the Church does not teach. 393 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.519 Oh, that's not what that means. 394 00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:58.839 We can also look to Matthew sixteen eighteen, where Jesus 395 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:03.079 renamed Simon to Peter, which literally means rock, and then 396 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:05.880 says upon this rock I will build my church, and 397 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.440 the gates of Hell will not stand against it. That's 398 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:10.839 not what that means. We can do this all day. 399 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:14.319 When you ask deep questions about Catholic beliefs, you will 400 00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:18.160 discover the scriptural roots of everything. The issue is are 401 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.920 those interpretations accurate? So I want to ask this question 402 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.400 differently because we must avoid using circular reasoning. 403 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:30.559 So here we go. Now we're going to get an 404 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.160 argument for how do we know the right interpretation of 405 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.160 these passages. I'm gonna bet he actually does engage in 406 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.680 circular reasoning. But you'll notice that he quoted Matthew sixteen eighteen, 407 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:44.160 which everybody would agree. Okay, yes, Jesus is speaking to 408 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.720 Peter because Peter confessed the deed of Christ. There, you're 409 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.680 the son of God. And Jesus says, you will have 410 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.400 the keys, you will have the ability to bind into loose. 411 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.799 But how often do Roman Catholics ever quote or bring 412 00:29:56.839 --> 00:29:59.720 in two chapters later, where Jesus says the exact same 413 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.640 thing to the other apostles, I mean to the entire college. 414 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.240 He says, whatever you guys bind on earth, it'll be 415 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:09.799 bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth, it'll be 416 00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.200 loose in heaven. Again, I say to you, to the 417 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:17.480 College of the Apostles. That's the audience here, not every 418 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.440 evangelical praying in his basement. To you, College of Apostles. 419 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:26.319 When you guys agree, my father will agree. Where two 420 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.519 or three of you are there, I am with you 421 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:34.839 in your midst. Now this does not specify something that 422 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:38.960 is unique to Peter. Two chapters later, the first statement 423 00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.240 is and Peter, I think, is given an award, a 424 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.079 kind of a honor. And the Orthodox Church agrees that 425 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.960 Peter got that honor. He's the mouthpiece the corythais of 426 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:58.319 the apostles. However, at the same time he says the 427 00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:01.440 same thing to the to the apostles later on, which 428 00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:04.880 is to bind into loose, which is the office of 429 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:08.960 the keys is not restricted to Peter alone. It's said 430 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.000 to be the entire college of the Apostles. And hence 431 00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.200 why the Orthodox Church has always said that it's a 432 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:19.160 collegial synodal form of church government. Why would Jesus say 433 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.079 that any of you, if you the two or three 434 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:25.640 of you agree, God will agree with you. Why would 435 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:28.640 all of them have the ability to open and too loose? 436 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.240 If it's something that is specific only to Peter, But 437 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:35.680 when we have verses out of context, it can give 438 00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:39.960 the impression that it is, oh something that only Peter has. Likewise, 439 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:42.440 when Jesus breathed on the apostles and says that you 440 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:47.079 can forgive sins, does he say this only to Peter? 441 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.519 Does he say does he breathe on Peter and then 442 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:51.799 tell Peter to breathe on them? When the Holy Spirit 443 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.000 comes a Pentecost? Does it come on Peter and then 444 00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:56.559 Peter hand the Holy Spirit off to everyone else? At 445 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:01.240 pentecost or does it come down in a elective, collegial way, 446 00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.039 in the same way as Jesus breathing on all of them? 447 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:08.839 So where is there any of the Vatican one ideas? 448 00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:12.400 So notice that this happens, because this duped me when 449 00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.599 I was a young twenty one two three year old 450 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.759 reading a lot of these verses, reading a lot of 451 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:22.519 these apologetics. Where is the Vatican one claim in any 452 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:26.359 of this? And it's not there. Vatican one is very precise, 453 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:31.880 very specific, that Peter is being given universal dominion over 454 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:35.039 the entire Church in a unilateral way to do essentially 455 00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:42.200 whatever he feels is necessary to govern the Church. There 456 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:47.279 is no collegial situation. It's an autocracy according to Vatican One, 457 00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:50.920 and Peter and his successors have that power, that authority 458 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.799 for all time until the end of the world. And 459 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:56.960 that it was always this way and it was always 460 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.519 this case in the church. That's the Vatican one dogma. 461 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.599 But that is not anywhere in the New Testament, nor 462 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.720 is it anywhere in the first eight hundred years of Christianity. 463 00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:11.200 You do have a first among equals place for the 464 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:14.359 patriarch of the West of Rome, but none of that 465 00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.720 equates to Vatican One, and in fact, the Vatican nowadays 466 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:20.880 has admitted most of these Orthodox criticisms, even to the 467 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:24.799 extent of saying that the pope did not exercise universal 468 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.160 jurisdiction in the first thousand years. Rome has admitted this. 469 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.680 Where did Rome admit in the Chady. 470 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:44.160 Document at the very end Chad Document right here, chapter nineteen, 471 00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:51.119 section nineteen, Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the 472 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.759 churches of the East. Yet that's exactly what Vatican One 473 00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:02.559 claims Rome always did and had. So Key is new, 474 00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:05.799 obviously to a lot of these arguments. He probably converted 475 00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.360 in the last few years, but is not aware of 476 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:13.360 the more broader context for a lot of these passages 477 00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.800 and how much is being read into these passages. Another 478 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:19.880 point that's brought up in the Edward Denny Papalism book 479 00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:26.000 is that it's entirely possible to read Matthew sixteen as Peter, 480 00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:28.800 even though that's actually the minority interpretation of most of 481 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.639 the Church fathers. The majority interpreted as the Faith or 482 00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:36.280 the Confession. There are about fifteen or sixteen I think, 483 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:38.880 if I recall what Denny says church fathers that interpreted 484 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.440 as Peter himself because of the naming and the new 485 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.000 naming being the Rock and so forth. But none of 486 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.079 that necessarily translates into Peter being the super bishop above 487 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.639 all the other bishops. In other words, when you have 488 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.480 some church fathers who do think it's Peter, such as 489 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:56.480 Saint Cyprian, Cyprian says every bishop is a Peter. So 490 00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.719 this is a promise not just to Peter as a 491 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:05.599 civic singular bishop, but that every bishop has Peter functioning 492 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:09.159 in him in this way. So there's a lot of 493 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:14.880 assumptions in this very low level pop apologetic that is 494 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.119 not being dealt with or is not taken into account. 495 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:20.599 It's precisely this kind of stuff that dupes two hundred 496 00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:21.599 and fifty thousand people. 497 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.800 How can we do that? 498 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.880 We will take the questions out of the realm of 499 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:29.679 personal interpretation and instead ask it this way. Does the 500 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:34.239 Catholic Church accurately teach the Christian faith? This leads to 501 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:36.960 the question what is the Christian faith and how can 502 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.079 we know what it teaches? Who gets to define what 503 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:44.239 Christianity is? The Catholic Church claims that it is the 504 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:45.719 fullness of the Christian faith. 505 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.719 Right, so every time I try to hit the unmute. 506 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:59.000 It doesn't always work, does it doesn't always register. So basically, 507 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:01.719 all I've been outlining for all the people in the 508 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:04.599 Twitter space, they're hearing it. But basically what I've outlined 509 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:07.719 is just simply that when of Santem makes it clear 510 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.159 that you have to believe in the universal supremacy of 511 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:14.280 the Roman Bishop in an earthly sense to be saved, 512 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:18.199 and it makes us very clear within a few centuries 513 00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:23.360 after Dictatus Pape in ten ninety and so this is 514 00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:25.880 something that's no longer required, right, And I made a 515 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:27.639 video on this. You can go watch the video I 516 00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:33.239 made the other day called this one dogma really refutes Catholicism. 517 00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.320 So if I no longer have to believe in the 518 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.760 temporal supremacy of the Roman Bishop to be saved, then 519 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:42.199 clearly Roman Catholic dogma does change, and it does contradict. 520 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.880 And this is a very explicit, obvious, easy contradiction. There 521 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.320 are many more. For example, Cantate Domino says that you 522 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:53.039 can't be a martyr outside of the Roman Communion. Well, 523 00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:57.320 the Roman Catholic Church today recognizes countless quote martyrs outside 524 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:02.079 of Rome and other religions perhaps who knows. I mean 525 00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.719 there's at least Anglican martyrers Coptic martyrs. I mean the 526 00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.800 Roman Catholic erst now accepts Orthodox Saints that used to 527 00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:12.920 be for centuries considered excommunicated heretics. So these are all 528 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:17.880 just clear examples of one hundred percent dogmatic contradiction. And 529 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:20.079 that's why so many a Roman Catholics. You noticed they 530 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.400 do not deal with this argument. When I had an 531 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:26.079 hour plus debate with that Crisp Plants guy, it took 532 00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:28.360 him an hour to even understand what the argument was. 533 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:31.199 He thought I was saying that the pope doesn't have 534 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:35.320 authority over the body. I'm like, no, no, no, it's authority 535 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.199 in a sense of like temporal power, like a king. Now, 536 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:46.239 does anyone believe that Jesus was handing to Peter a giant, global, 537 00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:52.159 worldly empire with standing armies and a bank utilizing usury, 538 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:56.679 utilizing the raw childs who have been the classic people 539 00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:59.760 bankers since the seventeen hundreds? Does anyone believe that's what 540 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:02.719 g This had in mind? But you understand that if 541 00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.679 you become Roman Catholic, this is what you're adopting. And 542 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.440 it's very similar to this this pattern that you're that 543 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:12.159 I'm pointing out here, this is very similar to what 544 00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:16.199 happens when Muslims or people who are interested in Islam 545 00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:19.519 think that it's about this simple thing and they don't 546 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.440 realize you go, you gotta believe all these Hadiaths too, Bro, 547 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.760 you got to believe the fart had deaths. You gotta 548 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.000 believe the Semen had deaths. You gotta believe all these 549 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.360 crazy hadeaths. And you don't get to say, oh, I 550 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.320 don't believe any I just believe the Koran because it's 551 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.199 a simple message. That's all bologney. But a lot of 552 00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:42.679 these religions world religions, particularly Roman Catholicism as well, do 553 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.239 the exact same thing, where there's this claim of simplicity 554 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.880 and it's very clear and it's just this these basics 555 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.280 and oh, you only have to believe the extra Cathedra statements. 556 00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:55.039 None of that's true. And that's why when the honeymoon 557 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:57.639 wears off and you realize what the rest of Roman 558 00:42:57.679 --> 00:42:59.719 Catholicism teaches and all the stuff that you have to 559 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.119 exc that's when you start to notice this vast matricey 560 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.320 of history of all of these contradictions and problems. 561 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:13.599 So therefore that's the claim we must test. How do 562 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:16.360 we know what the Christian faith is? And how is 563 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:19.639 Catholicism the fullness of it? This is where the argument 564 00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:23.159 from history comes into play. We know what Christianity is 565 00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:26.880 because we can see what the earliest Christians believed and taught. 566 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.320 We find this information by studying their writings and the 567 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.920 writings of others about them. These writings show us their beliefs, practices, 568 00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:37.920 and their history. Some of these writings are found in 569 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.639 what became the New Testament, which was added to the 570 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:42.320 Hebrew scriptures the Old Testament. 571 00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.480 Yeah, but it isn't interesting When Roman Catholics talk about this, 572 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.039 they conveniently ignore all of the patristic evidence for collegiality, cynidality, 573 00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:57.599 and anything that would be against the Vatican one papal 574 00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:01.639 idea because it doesn't really exist first several centuries. 575 00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:02.320 Now. 576 00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:05.239 One example that we might think could be an indicator 577 00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:08.760 of that would be perhaps when Pope Victor in about 578 00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:11.519 one point eighty thinks I'm going to excommunicate everyone in 579 00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:16.559 the East over the dating of Easter. And you can say, okay, 580 00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:20.320 maybe this is a early unilateral papal move but when 581 00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:23.559 he did this, how did it work out? Did the 582 00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:27.400 rest of the church accept it? In fact, no Irenaeus, 583 00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.320 Saint Ernaeus, whom Roman Catholics try to utilize as a 584 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:36.159 papal proof, famously rebuked Victor and this was not worried with. 585 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:43.119 Right the people didn't accept Victor's outlandish, extensive excommunication. But 586 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.960 beyond that, it doesn't even matter that one bishop says 587 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:50.239 someone else far away is excommunicated, because later on many 588 00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:53.480 patriarchs and bishops do this very thing. It's very common 589 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:55.920 later on, And this came up in the ubi Ebara 590 00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.599 debate that just because somebody says we reject heretic from 591 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:04.079 five hundred miles away, it doesn't follow from that that, oh, 592 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:08.480 therefore you have petrine, you know, super universal jurisdiction. That's 593 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:12.920 another leap that doesn't follow. So what often is the 594 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.719 case is that you get these out of context things 595 00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:21.320 like Peter has spoken through Leo, Rome has spoken cases closed, 596 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.960 and in those instances when you go actually read the context, 597 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.079 they don't back up the Vatican One idea at all. 598 00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:32.079 In fact, in the context, Peter is speaking through Cyril, 599 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:36.039 which is why he's speaking through Leo, because Cyril's tome 600 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:40.599 is judged against Leo at Calcedon, but Romancaloq pop apologists 601 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.760 always flip it, twist it and make it the other 602 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.760 way around. Everyone just saw Leo's tome and they all 603 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.840 just submitted when Leo wrote the letter, Well, then why 604 00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:52.119 do they judge it and spend days investigating to see 605 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.320 if it was consistent with Cyril? You don't judge the 606 00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.519 first see if the Roman Catholic position is true, you 607 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.760 accept it. That's what Batican one says, you accept with docility. 608 00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:08.480 So again, over and over and over. It's always out 609 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:13.159 of context proof texting without the broader sense and ethos 610 00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:18.000 of what's going on. Wait a minute, isn't that what 611 00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.280 Protestants do? Wow? 612 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:20.760 What? 613 00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:26.000 Yes, the Roman Catholics do the exact same thing as Protestants. 614 00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:29.880 Protestants with scripture, Roman Catholics with the Church fathers, and 615 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:33.440 in many Roman Cals' mind, it doesn't matter what the 616 00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:35.800 context was or where the Church fathers were teaching. It's 617 00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:38.519 actually okay to pull it out of context and make 618 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:43.320 it mean some super papal thing. Yet they turn around 619 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:47.039 and tell every Protestant that it's ridiculous and wrong for 620 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:52.039 them to do this with the scriptures, but Roman Catholics 621 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:57.519 are Protestants when it comes to the Church fathers and 622 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:01.920 with the papal teaching. And what I mean by that, Well, 623 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.559 when Francis says that all paths lead to God, as 624 00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.239 he said a few months ago, every Roman Catholic says, 625 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:09.039 I don't have to accept it. I don't have to 626 00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:13.599 accept it. So there's this total picking and choosing of 627 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.960 what documents they accept as faithful from the pope himself. 628 00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:20.960 When the Pope is supposed to be the epistemic principle 629 00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.679 to give us the certitude and the knowledge of which 630 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.119 one's true, which faith is true, which interpretation's true? 631 00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:28.079 Became the Christian Bible. 632 00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:30.800 The books of the Bible are believed to be more 633 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.559 than the writings of humans, though they are considered to 634 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:37.199 be the inspired, infallible word of God, thus carrying the 635 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.480 highest level of authority, along with two other sources of 636 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.159 authority sacred tradition, which means the way the apostles and 637 00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:48.880 their followers have understood Christianity and the magisterium of the Church. 638 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.880 Is Keith perhaps not aware that almost all of the 639 00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:57.519 modern Roman Catholic magisterium no longer believes in the inerrancy 640 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:00.920 and infallibility of the Bible. I mean, they believe that 641 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.360 it is a word of God, so to speak. But 642 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:09.400 pretty much every Roman Catholic seminarian, theologian, you name it 643 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:13.519 has been infected with modern, higher critical liberal scholarship. And 644 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:15.440 I know that because I was in the Roman Catholic 645 00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:18.840 ethos and world for many, many years. And I mean 646 00:48:18.920 --> 00:48:22.719 I found some tradcats who believed in the older documents 647 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:27.840 like Lamentabili and you know Pachindia Pius the tenth, which 648 00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:33.159 condemn modernism in the scripture studies, textual departments. But that's 649 00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:35.519 all been discarded. Rome doesn't care about that, and Rome 650 00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.599 does not uphold those teachings at all. 651 00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:40.840 Which means the teaching authority, the Pope and the councils 652 00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:44.440 think of this as how the Church interprets and applies 653 00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.960 God's word. All three sources of authority revealed to the 654 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:49.800 world what the Christian faith is. 655 00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:50.920 Well. 656 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.039 Individual writings of the church fathers are not infallible. They 657 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:56.800 show us how the beliefs and practices of the Christian 658 00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:01.519 faith were understood and even developed over time. The Magisterium 659 00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:03.800 of the Church, led by the Pope, the successor to 660 00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.800 Saint Peter, the leader of the Apostles, leads the church 661 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.800 in teaching and in worship. So the question is is 662 00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:13.280 the Catholic Church the fullness of Christianity? The answer is 663 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:17.360 much bigger than yes, because it says so, Catholicism is 664 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:20.719 an unbroken line of succession that traces back to Jesus 665 00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:23.159 and the Apostles, and if you look at the earliest 666 00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:25.960 writings of the Christians, you will find the beginnings of 667 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:26.760 the Catholic Church. 668 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.840 Yeah, but there are many groups that claim to have 669 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:38.280 Apostolic succession, from the Orthodox, to the Coptics to even 670 00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:41.800 some Anglicans and Lutherans. And I'm not saying that they 671 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:44.639 actually possess it, but they all claim to have it. 672 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.800 So even this argument is not that good because just 673 00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.119 because these groups claim to have Apostolic succession, that doesn't 674 00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.159 mean that it's the one true Catholic Church church or 675 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.920 that it possesses it necessarily, because that's something that all 676 00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:02.079 those groups possess. So so just Apostolic succession by his 677 00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:04.559 own testament, by his own line of argument, isn't really 678 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.239 good enough to prove anything about Rome being the true Church. 679 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:09.760 People get worked up about that. 680 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:12.559 They think, if this were true, the church should look 681 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.880 today precisely as it looked two thousand years ago. But 682 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:18.960 is that realistic? Is that God's plan for the church? 683 00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:21.679 At what point in history do you say it should 684 00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:22.360 stop growing? 685 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.800 Well, here we get the ambiguity in moving the goalposts, 686 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:32.639 because yeah, I mean, we would expect commonality, and we 687 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:37.480 would expect you know, synthesis and harmony with the Church 688 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:40.519 of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century. Sure, 689 00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:45.599 but we also would expect some differences in some expressions 690 00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:49.199 in terms of cultural whatever that are different. We would 691 00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:57.280 not expect vast radical changes in dogma or in liturgical expression. 692 00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:02.639 And guess what we have seen vast radical changes in 693 00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:07.239 liturgical expression and worship in the Roman See. We have 694 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:11.360 not seen that in any Orthodox church or any Orthodox bishopric, 695 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.079 except that I'm aware of. There may be one outlier, 696 00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:17.159 But that's different than comparing it to what the Roman 697 00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:21.159 See itself pushes and presents. Why do I say that, 698 00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:26.480 Because this is way beyond this guy's level of grasping 699 00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:29.880 this stuff. There's a famous document you can look up 700 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:33.880 in a Roman Catholic dogmatic history is called actorum fide, 701 00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:39.519 and it's a dogmatic condemnation of the Jansenists. And one 702 00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:42.280 of the propositions that's condemned is that the Jansonists were 703 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:49.199 arguing that Rome could promulgate defective rights, liturgies and sacraments. 704 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:55.800 This is one reason why, for example, the later Reformers 705 00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:58.719 utilize these same types of arguments which were already condemned 706 00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:02.599 in the Jansenists condemnation. But the pro the response to 707 00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:07.400 the Vatican in doctorum fide is that given the Keroism 708 00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.000 of Peter, to the Roman See, it would be completely 709 00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:15.239 destructive and impossible to the entirety of papal supremacy and 710 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:21.440 authority for Rome to promulgate defective rights and sacraments. And 711 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:25.280 so that's a Protestant position that is condemned. And I 712 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.119 say that because that means you have to accept the Novasorto. 713 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:32.119 Because Rome has promulgated and pushed and accepted the Novasorto 714 00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:37.159 mass since Vatican two. Well, what does that mean? That 715 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:41.400 means there is a drastic change in the style an 716 00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:46.559 expression of worship such that it constitutes a revolution in 717 00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:52.199 worship akin to the Protestant revolution in worship. And that's 718 00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:56.079 why Vatican two was an absolutely one percent protestantizing of 719 00:52:56.079 --> 00:53:00.719 the Roman Catholic Church from the top down, not in 720 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:06.960 a few liberal bishoprics from the Roman seat dogmatically for 721 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:10.800 the last seventy plus years. So it is not the 722 00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:15.400 case that the Romancality Church has not fundamentally changed in 723 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.480 fundamental expressions of the faith, one of which the most important, 724 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:22.159 which perhaps is the worship of God. 725 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.920 You could make this argument when Jesus called others to 726 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:27.840 follow him after the twelve Apostles, Hey, this doesn't look 727 00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:30.679 the way it used to look. Or what about a 728 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:33.880 Pentecost when the church grew by three thousand people, or 729 00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:35.639 when the Apostles created deacons. 730 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:38.719 Yeah, but that's also not in any way analogous to 731 00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:43.519 a giant global Vatican bank that utilized his organized crime 732 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:47.639 and usury literally for the last three centuries with the 733 00:53:47.679 --> 00:53:52.840 approval of the Vatican run by the Rothschilds explicitly publicly. 734 00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:56.199 History is that what Jesus had in mind standing armies, 735 00:53:56.599 --> 00:54:00.199 The Pope says, kiss my feet and my ring as 736 00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:03.960 a worldly emperor. I thought Jesus told the apostles that 737 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:07.960 do not try to be like the global emperors and 738 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.840 the world powers. With their vanity and their glory. He said, 739 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:17.000 you are subject to one another through humility. And yet 740 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:19.400 what is the papas the historically what is when I'm 741 00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:24.679 sanctum infinitely light year? Is the opposite of that seeking 742 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:28.519 to be explicitly a geopolitical world power? 743 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.679 When are we supposed to have a snapshot and never 744 00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:33.440 grow from there? 745 00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:36.840 Do you see my point? The church is on a trajectory. 746 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:41.000 Notice the ambiguity that all of these guys utilize. The 747 00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:44.039 idea that the church grew in numbers and expansion and 748 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:47.920 expression of faith through the liturgy and through when I 749 00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:51.119 say the liturgy, I mean through the linguistic expressions of 750 00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:53.880 the various groups in the church. Roman Catholics called them 751 00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.559 the sixteen rites of the of the Church. Are ite, 752 00:54:58.119 --> 00:55:00.360 They'll say, well, look you've got all these sixteen rights, 753 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:03.679 they all express the one papal faith. No, no, no, that's 754 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:05.920 not what I'm talking about in terms of growth. So 755 00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:10.239 he's training on ambiguity with growth. And this is precisely 756 00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:13.239 what they do with development of doctrine, because development of 757 00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:18.079 doctrine then becomes a catch all for the papacy tacking 758 00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.320 on new things. So when I talk about these medieval 759 00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:26.719 things with unam sanctam and temporol supremacy. Oh well, you see, 760 00:55:26.719 --> 00:55:30.880 that's the natural, organic growth and development that we're talking about. 761 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:38.679 So now growth becomes a cover for dogmatic contradiction and change. No, 762 00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:43.599 no having standing armies, which the Canons of Chalcedon say, 763 00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.400 no cleric can be a part of civil service is 764 00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:50.960 a contradiction. And there's nothing in the Canons of Chalcaton 765 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.519 to say except for the Bishop of Rome, he can, 766 00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:57.239 of course be a world emperor. When Chalcidon wrote it's canons, 767 00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.559 they didn't make any exceptions for any cleric, much less 768 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.599 the Bishop of Rome. So if a few centuries later 769 00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:05.559 the Bishop of Rome says, oh, by the way, I'm 770 00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:09.079 also a world emperor. And if you don't accept that, 771 00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:16.000 you're not saved. That is absolutely a contradiction. And yes, 772 00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:16.840 it's dogmatic. 773 00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.880 Grows and develops because it is alive, and as it does, 774 00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:25.920 things will look different, and when you ask why, you 775 00:56:25.960 --> 00:56:28.920 can find an answer. For example, the church became headquartered 776 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.320 in Rome because that's where Peter was bishop when he died. 777 00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:38.159 However, I love this argument, So where they die is 778 00:56:38.199 --> 00:56:44.440 what confers these special superpowers. Now, keep in mind, Peter 779 00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:49.599 ordained the line of bishops in Alexandra and Antioch. Those 780 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.119 are all patrin seas, all the way up into the 781 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.679 days of Pope Saint Gregory the Great, who writes letters 782 00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:58.199 saying there are three patrin sees, Rome, Alexander, and Antioch. 783 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:01.519 So how is that Rome that had to come up 784 00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:06.360 with a reason why Rome was so special? Which actually 785 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.159 in the Church Fathers this is mentioned many times. For example, 786 00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:12.800 Ieron Aa says Rome is special because it's doubly Apostolic. 787 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:19.519 He explicitly says Peter and Paul in every Orthodox icon, 788 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.559 you'll notice that of the church, you see Peter and 789 00:57:22.639 --> 00:57:26.960 Paul holding the church, so they're equal. So it makes 790 00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:30.280 sense why Rome would be called special in that sense, 791 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:35.440 being doubly Apostolic. Hence, Paul writes the famous Letter to 792 00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:40.519 the Roman Church to the Romans, but Paul warns the 793 00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:43.599 Romans in chapter eleven that if they are haughty and arrogant, 794 00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:46.199 they can be grafted out of the Covenant. Now, why 795 00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.480 would Paul write that to a church that could never 796 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:53.519 fail and could never be grafted out of the Covenant. Ironically, providentially, prophetically, 797 00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:58.239 Paul actually predicts the downfall of the Roman Church, because 798 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:03.039 he warns that church, you guys could fall into pride 799 00:58:03.079 --> 00:58:06.400 and arrogance and fall from that pride. Do not be haughty, 800 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:09.960 because if God grafted out Jews, he can graft out 801 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.760 the Roman Church. And he did. And that's the key 802 00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:16.440 point here. This is why the Roman Church manifests all 803 00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:20.199 the blasphemies and the ridiculousness that they've manifested for so 804 00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:24.480 many decades. And Roman Catholics and Tradcats are liars when 805 00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:26.960 they lie to themselves that that's not true. And I 806 00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:29.039 don't have to accept it, and it's not the case. 807 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:32.440 And I don't have to accept Benedict praying towards Mecca, 808 00:58:32.599 --> 00:58:34.360 and I don't have to accept John Pall the Second 809 00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:36.760 praying in the synagogues, even though that's condemned in the 810 00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:39.840 ancient canons. No, you do have to condemn those things. 811 00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:42.920 You do have to accept those things if you're a Catholic. 812 00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:45.800 And this is what creates the double mind and the 813 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:48.440 insanity and the craziness in the way that they act. 814 00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:52.840 Constantine did not start the Catholic Church in the fourth century. 815 00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:56.119 You can't just accept these myths created by anti Catholics 816 00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:56.559 as fact. 817 00:58:56.679 --> 00:58:58.079 You need to look at history. 818 00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:01.880 Unfortunately, we have writings before the time of Constantine that 819 00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:04.199 show us what was going on in the early Church. 820 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.840 Over the centuries, the Church has continued to grow and 821 00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:11.840 develop in its practices and theological understanding. That's why we 822 00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:15.960 need an authoritative magisterium to protect and defend the depositive 823 00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:19.880 faith given by Jesus to his apostles. As the Church 824 00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:23.079 grows and its mission and new issues are raised, the 825 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:27.000 Church clarifies its beliefs and settles disputes. That's what we 826 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:30.519 see in history and this is important as we look 827 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:31.719 at Catholicism today. 828 00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:35.199 Yeah, but we see it through ecumenical councils. We don't 829 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:37.480 see it through just writing to the Bishop of Rome 830 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.000 to solve the disputes and make it clear, which, by 831 00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:42.440 the way, wouldn't that have been the way to do 832 00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.679 it if the Vatican One view is true. And you 833 00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:47.599 know this has been brought up many many times to 834 00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:50.639 the Roman Catholic paup apologists, and they do address this, 835 00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:53.119 but do you know how they address this objection? You 836 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:54.519 remember what Abara said. 837 00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:57.440 Well, the pope couldn't answer all those letters, he'd be 838 00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:02.000 walking around in a sea of papers into Vedic. That's 839 01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:06.679 literally that was his argument. So I mean, well, but 840 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:09.559 the pope wants to do things in collusion with the bishops. 841 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:14.440 Why involve everybody else in the world, in the ancient world, 842 01:00:14.519 --> 01:00:16.840 bringing a bunch of people from all over to a 843 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:20.800 central location which would take months, perhaps even years to 844 01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:24.280 send the letters and to get everybody there. And by 845 01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:27.119 the way, no popes call ecumenical councils. It's all emperors. 846 01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:32.320 So none of that makes any sense with the Vatican 847 01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:35.440 One model of how the church is supposed to be 848 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:38.159 run and directed. Oh well, but that was a different time, 849 01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:40.039 and you see it change. Yeah, exactly what I thought 850 01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:43.039 rom Kellock Gooma doesn't change. Well, it developed. Oh okay, 851 01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:45.079 so what does that mean. Well, so whatever the pope 852 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.800 says today, that's the true thing you said, that's that's 853 01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:51.320 actually how it operates. So if the pope today says 854 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:55.159 there was never a time when we condemned the Muslims, 855 01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:58.239 then then it's like quantum papacy. It was never true. 856 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:06.239 Literally retroactive retro causation. You thought that the or urban 857 01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:09.239 the second called crusades against Islam. No, no, no, you see 858 01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:13.599 that never happened. Retroactive causation. The pope has now preyed 859 01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:16.280 in the Moss towards Mecca with the Muslims, so there 860 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:20.079 was there were no crusades that didn't happen, So just 861 01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:24.119 papal gas lighting and quantum papacy rewriting history. 862 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:27.280 We can see its connection to the past. We can 863 01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:30.480 see how the Church fathers processed and worked out certain 864 01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:35.760 theological concepts like the canon of the Bible, the Trinity, baptism, salvation, 865 01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:37.840 but also practical things like. 866 01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:41.360 What about communion. Did the Church have a worked out 867 01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:45.079 practice of communion in the first seven eighth centuries? Actually 868 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:49.159 it did, and pretty much universally it included infants. And 869 01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:52.119 yet when we get the rise of the papacy, at 870 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:55.159 least in terms of temporal power in the eighth ninth 871 01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:59.039 tenth century, particularly when it comes into collusion with the 872 01:01:59.079 --> 01:02:03.639 Frankish power. Isn't it interesting that that's exactly when there's 873 01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:08.320 no longer infant communion in the West, another liturgical revolution 874 01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:11.719 which is not mentioned or not dealt with, or just 875 01:02:11.800 --> 01:02:14.079 swept under the rug. And when you bring this up 876 01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:16.719 to Roman Catholics, they either deny it, they don't care, 877 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.760 or they act like It's just not the case. No, 878 01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:24.440 Rome never commune infants. Yes they did, Western Latin church 879 01:02:24.440 --> 01:02:28.239 fathers talk about infant communion. Oh well, the pote made 880 01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:31.000 a change because it was necessary. Why how is there 881 01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:35.480 this unilateral change in liturgical practice when the purpose is 882 01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:39.440 supposed to be preservation of the tradition and the practices. 883 01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:45.280 There were Latin priests that were married. Did you know that? 884 01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:49.039 Did you know that Initially Rome didn't have a problem 885 01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:53.239 with Trollo and then later they did. Why is that? 886 01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:56.440 I thought it was maintaining the traditions and preserving the 887 01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:57.280 truth for all time. 888 01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:01.159 Do with those who denied the faith and wanted to return, 889 01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:05.000 or how the church should be administered, the interplay between 890 01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:08.880 the church and the various political states. These are real issues, 891 01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:11.400 and they weren't all explicitly fully defined at the time 892 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:12.000 of Jesus. 893 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:14.440 We see a great example of this in action. 894 01:03:14.599 --> 01:03:17.760 So would that include uhen I'm sanctam and the pope 895 01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:20.039 being the quisas hoder Rock? I mean? Is that where 896 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.840 you're going with this? Is that part of the evolving tradition. 897 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:26.280 Chapter fifteen, where the Magisterium of the Church had to 898 01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:29.480 work out what to do with Gentile conference to Christian. 899 01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:31.880 Yeah, you know some Magisterian by the way, isn't it Peter. 900 01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:34.679 It's a council presided over by James. 901 01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:38.559 Interesting, Andy, would these people need to obey the entire 902 01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:42.719 Jewish law before becoming Christians? There was a discussion and prayer, 903 01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:45.679 and ultimately, based on experience and the leading of the 904 01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:48.519 Holy Spirit, a decision was made to settle this. 905 01:03:48.639 --> 01:03:51.800 New How was that decision made? Was it made unilaterally 906 01:03:51.920 --> 01:03:55.559 by asking Peter what the answer is? Or do they 907 01:03:55.559 --> 01:04:00.039 have a synod synodol church government, which is what the 908 01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:03.960 Orthodox Church still does, which is what the Roman Catholic 909 01:04:04.039 --> 01:04:15.440 Church has conceded in their recent synods on sinidality. So 910 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:20.840 in twenty sixteen they started this dialogue about cynidality and 911 01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:25.159 primacy and this was the first admission in this series 912 01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:30.280 of admissions where Rome was not what Vatican one says. 913 01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.559 And then they came out with another document in twenty 914 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:37.760 twenty three called the Alexandria Document. And what's it on 915 01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:45.679 sinnodality and what councils are they having in Rome right now? 916 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:47.599 I don't know if it's still ongoing or if it's ended. 917 01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:50.639 But Tim Gordon has been yelling about it for the 918 01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:58.800 last year the synods on sinidality. So if this is 919 01:04:59.119 --> 01:05:01.960 the case, why having to make all these concessions in 920 01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:13.400 their own synods to sinidality issue. 921 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:15.880 They didn't just quote a verse from the Old Testament. 922 01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:20.559 This is the pattern that continued throughout the history of Christianity. 923 01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:22.039 This is Catholicism. 924 01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:25.079 By the way, for Protestants who get wigged out by 925 01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:28.400 practical or doctrinal development, why do they never apply this time? 926 01:05:28.519 --> 01:05:33.079 Ah, you notice that that he slipped in, So he 927 01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:38.119 slipped in doctrinal development. Does Vatican want anywhere appeal to 928 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:42.480 doctrinal development? No, it does not. In fact, it actually claims, 929 01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:46.079 as does satist Cognium of Leo the thirteenth, that the 930 01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:50.079 papal position, the vatican one position, was always the case, 931 01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:54.639 universally known from the earliest days of the Church. But now, 932 01:05:54.679 --> 01:05:59.440 in order to solve the apparent problem of medieval pope 933 01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:03.519 says kings and emperors, Well, it's develops, you see. So 934 01:06:03.559 --> 01:06:07.880 there's a lot of ambiguity and elastic terminology such as 935 01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:13.639 develops and the church grows. Well, at first, it sounded 936 01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.679 like you were talking about grows in terms of numbers, 937 01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:18.880 which everybody agrees with. But then that somehow flipped over 938 01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:21.840 into bait and switch to be grows in terms of 939 01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:27.159 doctrinal understanding to where no, there wasn't in Jesus's mind 940 01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:29.639 necessarily at the time of the founding of the Church, 941 01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:33.840 a Vatican bank and an imperial insignia that you had 942 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:36.239 to believe in to be saved by the Pope whatever, 943 01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:40.079 none of the no, that grew and developed. But again, 944 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:45.599 which one is it? Was it always the case or 945 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:49.880 did it have a seed form that developed? I hammer 946 01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:53.679 this home all the time for the last several years, 947 01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:58.719 because they do the exact same double standard. The Romancolic 948 01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:00.960 pop apologies will in one voice sit there and tell 949 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:03.840 you that it was always the case from the earliest days, 950 01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:09.280 and then contradict himself with a mutually exclusive claim that no, 951 01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.280 it wasn't really clear. It was a seed form and 952 01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:15.360 it had to grow. It can't be both, And Vatican 953 01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:17.400 won inside these communitims said that it was not a 954 01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:21.159 seed form that grew. That's Cardinal Newman's theory to explain 955 01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:24.920 the problems. Cardinal Newman's theory does not line up with 956 01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:29.599 what Vatican won inside East Communum actually claim, but Ron mccallack. 957 01:07:29.639 --> 01:07:35.760 Apologies with a double standard movable goalpost constantly utilize both 958 01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:39.559 principles in their apologetic and nobody calls them out or 959 01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:42.760 points this out. When it's a mutually exclusive claim, it 960 01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:46.800 literally cannot be both. Imagine if I said the Orthodox 961 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:50.440 Church was not clear in the first few centuries, but 962 01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:52.960 it was always the Orthodox Church that was clearly there. 963 01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:55.840 The Orthodox Church was a seed that grew to what 964 01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:59.719 it is, but it was also clearly universally there from 965 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:02.960 the very beginning, at all times, in all places, recognized 966 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:08.079 by everyone. That makes no sense. But everybody just believes 967 01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:10.639 these dumb pop arguments and just lets these people just 968 01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:13.119 say all this stuff. Nobody ever calls them out on it. 969 01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:16.439 Nobody confronts the paup apologist with this crap, and none 970 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.439 of the paup apologists will ever debate me because I 971 01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:21.119 don't let this nonsense lie. I called him out immediately 972 01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:24.119 on it, and then they bitch and wine moan for 973 01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:29.960 seven years. Now, me give me a break, us. 974 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:33.199 That the Catholic Church has structure and developments. Do they 975 01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:37.239 not see that in themselves? It's so hypocritical, The only. 976 01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:37.520 People all. 977 01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:41.359 So wait a minute, so you're saying that the Roman 978 01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:46.640 Catholic Church's development is like the development in the Protestant world. 979 01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:51.239 That's a a one admission that Roman Catholicism is a 980 01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:55.119 Protestant type position that develops and changes. It's exactly my point, 981 01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:59.000 and he just admitted it. When you're a hypocritical, if 982 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:02.159 you're a Protestant, you believe, and you say that doctrines 983 01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:06.560 shouldn't develop, you believe the doctrine develops. Again, notice all 984 01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:10.159 this ambiguity, What exactly do you mean by doctrinal development? 985 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:12.960 Do you mean that the doctrines change? Or do you 986 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:15.479 mean that we have a greater understanding of the doctrines 987 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:17.760 as an order the docts person. I could agree to that, 988 01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:21.279 But saying that I have a greater understanding of the 989 01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:25.479 theological doctrines and pronunciations by the sixth or seventh century 990 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:30.720 does not equate to a totally new idea that Peter 991 01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:34.279 is also a world emperor, which is nowhere in the 992 01:09:34.319 --> 01:09:38.159 first seven centuries of Christianity. In fact, it's famously based 993 01:09:38.199 --> 01:09:41.760 on a forgery, the Donation of Constantine, which the Vatican 994 01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:47.960 evinces a forgery. So no, there is no equating better 995 01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:54.000 understanding with doctrinal development. When he's using doctrinal development to 996 01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:58.720 explain new dogmas that evolved that contradict previous ideas. 997 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:03.199 This is are the Eastern Orthodox because they too trace 998 01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:06.279 their history back to the beginning. But that's for another video. 999 01:10:07.119 --> 01:10:10.760 Catholicism traces itself in an unbroken line of succession back 1000 01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:12.920 to Jesus, and you can say. 1001 01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:16.319 So to the Coptics, so to the Assyrians. So do 1002 01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:20.119 the Orthodox like, what does that prove? I'd like to 1003 01:10:20.119 --> 01:10:23.239 see his Orthodox video? I bet what do you want 1004 01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:24.920 to bet? It's not very high tier. 1005 01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:28.600 As an objective fact. People may not like that, but 1006 01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:31.840 it's true. This is why it's so ridiculous when people 1007 01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:33.880 say things like, well, Catholics aren't Christians. 1008 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:35.600 I've even heard. 1009 01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:38.319 People say this about our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. 1010 01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:42.600 But my friends, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are the original Christians. 1011 01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.600 Yes, well wait a minute, So if I'm an original 1012 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:48.600 Christian as an Orthodox, then I don't need the papacy. 1013 01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:52.439 And if the papacy has admitted, as Benice the sixteenth 1014 01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:56.119 did that the Orthodox have maintained the Catholic Christian faith 1015 01:10:56.119 --> 01:10:58.199 in the last thousand years and a Roman Catholic submit 1016 01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:01.159 that we have gracious sacraments, which they admit, then why 1017 01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:03.600 do we need the papacy? Exactly what exactly is it 1018 01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:06.760 doing that we missed out on in the last thousand years? 1019 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:11.960 You see, he's expressing the Vatican two attitude that you 1020 01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:17.319 can reject multiple ecumenical councils and still remain a quote 1021 01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:21.560 true Catholic or Christian. Was that the teaching of Vatican 1022 01:11:21.600 --> 01:11:27.079 one only what a century plus ago? Well, Vatican one 1023 01:11:27.159 --> 01:11:32.039 attaches excommunication to anyone who rejects Vatican One. So if 1024 01:11:32.039 --> 01:11:36.279 you were consistent, Orthodox who are explicit about the rejection 1025 01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:40.640 of Vatican One are not Christian. They are excommunicated heretics 1026 01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:46.119 and schismatics. But he's expressing the lovey dove Vatican two 1027 01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:49.399 Acumenius attitude that oh, well, we're all Christians, bro or 1028 01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:54.439 at least here it seems to be Apostolic Christians, which 1029 01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:56.600 whatever that is, I don't know what that that's supposed 1030 01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:58.960 to be. Oh, anybody who's quote apposolic succession, Well, who 1031 01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:02.039 decides who has episodes excession? Oh Rome does. Oh so 1032 01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:07.479 if Rome accepts the Coptics and the Orthodox and whoever 1033 01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:11.960 Assyrians may be, so suddenly they're now Christians. That's not 1034 01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:14.399 the reasoning or the or the mindset of the ideology 1035 01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:19.279 of ecclesiology from Cantate Domino to Vatican One. That's the 1036 01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:22.439 idea post Vatican One up into Vatican two and Ecumenism, 1037 01:12:22.479 --> 01:12:27.479 when the Roman Catholic Church no longer rejects interfaith gatherings. 1038 01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:31.279 As late as nineteen twenty eight, interfaith gatherings were explicitly 1039 01:12:31.359 --> 01:12:35.479 called apostasy and heresy and surrendering of the faith. Just 1040 01:12:35.560 --> 01:12:41.079 look up Mortalium Anamos a Pious the eleventh. But he's 1041 01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:46.439 already contradicted by now expressing a Vatican two specific Roman Catholicism, 1042 01:12:46.479 --> 01:12:51.479 which literally says schismatics and people who reject a thousand 1043 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:54.800 years of the papacy are still somehow Catholic Christians in 1044 01:12:54.840 --> 01:12:57.399 good standing. That makes no sense oracle fact. 1045 01:12:58.479 --> 01:13:01.039 Now for some people who still find this is completely crazy, 1046 01:13:01.319 --> 01:13:03.560 I would challenge you to look at the writings of 1047 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:06.880 the Church fathers. You will see Catholic beliefs on the 1048 01:13:06.920 --> 01:13:09.840 primacy of the Bishop of Rome, the real presence of 1049 01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:13.159 Jesus and the Eucharist, the Mass as a sacrifice to God, 1050 01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:17.359 the baptism of infants and baptismal regeneration, the authority of 1051 01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.520 the Catholic Church, the Canon of Scripture as the Catholic 1052 01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:24.239 Church has it today, the veneration of icons, and prayer 1053 01:13:24.279 --> 01:13:26.640 to the saints, and even the veneration of the Blessed 1054 01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:27.359 Virgin Mary. 1055 01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:28.760 Now I know the objections. 1056 01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:31.439 Some say I don't care what the church fathers say, 1057 01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:34.720 I only care about the Bible. But that statement blows 1058 01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:37.319 up when you realize that God used the Church to 1059 01:13:37.399 --> 01:13:41.199 tell you which books are in the Bible are other things. 1060 01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:45.720 So he actually did present a circular argument. The papacy 1061 01:13:45.880 --> 01:13:47.840 is where you get the Bible. You couldn't know the paper. 1062 01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:50.119 And when he says the church, he means the papacy, 1063 01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:52.720 because every Roman Catholic apologist is going to date it 1064 01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:56.359 to the Roman councils and to Damasists to say how 1065 01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:59.239 they know what the canon scripture is. So he decided 1066 01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:07.000 the the papacy as the source of the canon. But 1067 01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:09.159 I wanted to remind you because many of you are 1068 01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:12.439 not familiar with this. Many people have not read Denzinger. 1069 01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.039 They don't know what's in contate Domino, which is the 1070 01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:17.680 pronunciation of the Council of Florence. So it's a dogmatic 1071 01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:20.880 statement from the Council Florence. You can look it up, 1072 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:24.239 Contate Domino, not the liturgical music that pops up, but 1073 01:14:24.279 --> 01:14:29.479 the actual pronunciation of Pute Eugene fourth from the Council Florence. 1074 01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:33.319 This is the bull that he wrote. And I want 1075 01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:35.920 you to tell me if you think this famous Papa 1076 01:14:36.000 --> 01:14:38.640 Bull at all reads like Vatican two and what this 1077 01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:41.920 guy says. The Roman Church firmly believes and professes that 1078 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:46.000 those not living within the Catholic Church, not only Pagans, 1079 01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:51.079 but Jews, heretics and schismatics, cannot become participants in eternal life, 1080 01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:54.439 but will depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil 1081 01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:57.840 and his angels, unless before the end of life the 1082 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.960 same have been added to the flock, the paper flock. 1083 01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.119 And the said unity of the ecclesiastical body is so 1084 01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:08.199 strong that only those remaining in it, that to those 1085 01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:11.159 remaining and are the sacraments of benefit to salvation and 1086 01:15:11.199 --> 01:15:13.079 do fasting, alms giving, an other functions of piety and 1087 01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:16.640 exercise of the Christian service to produce the eternal reward. 1088 01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:21.319 And that no one who whatever almsgiving he's practiced even 1089 01:15:21.359 --> 01:15:23.359 if he shed blood for the name of Christ, even 1090 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:27.359 if he's a martyr, a Christian martyr outside of Rome 1091 01:15:28.319 --> 01:15:31.000 is not saved unless he remains in the bosom and 1092 01:15:31.079 --> 01:15:35.880 unity of the Roman Catholic Church. So notice contat Domino 1093 01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:40.520 does not accept martyrs and saints outside of communion with 1094 01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:45.319 the Bishop of Rome. And this is not some obscure document. 1095 01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:48.039 This is one of the most famous documents in the 1096 01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:51.760 history of the Catholic Church. Pope Eugene the fourt's Cantate Domino. 1097 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:56.359 So go look it up. 1098 01:15:56.439 --> 01:15:59.640 You'll find it very easily if you search it, Cantata 1099 01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:04.840 Domo Eugene, and it tells you that doesn't even matter 1100 01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:09.000 if you're a martyr in some other communion, you're not saved. 1101 01:16:10.159 --> 01:16:13.760 Another contradiction because Madicandu says the very opposite. Not only 1102 01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.000 are there martyrs and Christians that people saved in all 1103 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:20.520 the other schismatic bodies and groups. There's in fact people 1104 01:16:20.600 --> 01:16:25.439 saved in Hinduism, as no tretate says Hindus love God 1105 01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:26.720 like Catholics do. 1106 01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:30.800 Others will say, well, the church fathers aren't unanimous, so 1107 01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:32.239 you guys are picking and choosing. 1108 01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:35.760 I agree, that's precisely why the authority. 1109 01:16:35.359 --> 01:16:37.960 Of the Church is not based only on the Church fathers, 1110 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:41.840 but also on the scriptures and the magisterium. It is 1111 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.800 the God given role of the Church to preserve, unpack 1112 01:16:44.920 --> 01:16:48.000 and teach the depositive faith pass down from Jesus to 1113 01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:51.239 the apostles and their successors. The Bible says in Second 1114 01:16:51.319 --> 01:16:55.800 Thessalonians two fifteen, So then, brethren, stand firm and hold 1115 01:16:55.840 --> 01:16:58.720 to the traditions which you were taught by us, either 1116 01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:02.279 by word of mouth or by letter. And also in 1117 01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:06.000 one Timothy three fifteen, if I am delayed, you may 1118 01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:07.560 know how one ought to behave. 1119 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:11.079 Of course, everybody's heard these verses a million times, and 1120 01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:14.000 I mean these are good verses to refute, you know, 1121 01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:17.920 sol Scripture at presuppositions. But none of these things demonstrate 1122 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:21.840 that the Roman Church is the one true church, or 1123 01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:24.760 that the papacy is the case. And in fact, I 1124 01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:27.039 can keep going on and on and on, for example, 1125 01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:32.520 that it can choose Lumingentium. Paragraph sixteen says that Muslims 1126 01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:35.560 have the faith of Abraham, and that God accepts their 1127 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:37.960 prayers and their alms giving and so forth, as does 1128 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.439 nos Ratt says the exact same thing. And the reason 1129 01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:43.640 I like to bring both of these quotes up is 1130 01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:48.399 because they will engage in deflection and dissimulation. If you 1131 01:17:48.479 --> 01:17:51.880 mention the fact that the Muslims over here in nostra 1132 01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:55.119 Atate say that they have the faith of Abraham, they'll say, oh, 1133 01:17:55.159 --> 01:17:58.800 but doesn't actually say that says they believe they have it. No, Actually, 1134 01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:03.079 when you compare both documents, it explicitly says they actually 1135 01:18:03.119 --> 01:18:07.079 do have it. So notice the they'll say it's weaponized ambiguity. 1136 01:18:07.399 --> 01:18:11.359 Well wait a minute. Notice the new guy, our new 1137 01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:14.520 guy here, who doesn't really know this stuff and is 1138 01:18:14.560 --> 01:18:16.279 new to all this. He thinks. 1139 01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:20.000 That this is all solved. Bro, it makes it all clear. 1140 01:18:20.079 --> 01:18:23.279 Dude, he's not even on he's not even at the 1141 01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:25.279 stage where he's gonna have to deal with the tradcat 1142 01:18:25.319 --> 01:18:28.239 stuff yet. But give this guy two or three years 1143 01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:32.359 and he'll I like Taylor Marshall now, and then give 1144 01:18:32.439 --> 01:18:34.840 him about five years. I'm starting to think France is 1145 01:18:34.920 --> 01:18:36.600 into pope, all right. So this is the track that 1146 01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:39.319 everybody goes on in this domain. So he's not there yet, 1147 01:18:39.920 --> 01:18:44.159 but he will be. He'll be forced to be, because 1148 01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:47.399 then I'm not trying to be mean or arrogant, like 1149 01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:50.119 where this guy's at I was at this stage in 1150 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:53.199 two thousand and two. It's exactly where I was twenty 1151 01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:56.359 two years ago. And then you're gonna have to start 1152 01:18:56.399 --> 01:18:59.000 digging into these documents. You're gonna realize, Hey, wait a minute, 1153 01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.960 how do we call crusades against people that we now 1154 01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:04.840 say can be saved because they have the faith of Abraham. Hello, 1155 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:07.159 you don't have the faith of Abraham if you don't 1156 01:19:07.159 --> 01:19:11.479 believe in Christ, and if you don't believe in the Trinity, 1157 01:19:12.199 --> 01:19:15.720 And how are people not recognizing this? In Trent Horn, 1158 01:19:16.479 --> 01:19:20.359 the last surviving sole apologist star of the Roman system, 1159 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:25.119 who literally thinks that the word triad is an Aryan term, 1160 01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:29.840 I mean, the very term used in Greek Catholic churches 1161 01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:33.399 for the Trinity. This goober still thinks he doubled down, 1162 01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:39.159 still thinks is an anti Trinitarian term. The one who 1163 01:19:39.239 --> 01:19:43.000 says that, yeah, Francis does appear to contradict when he 1164 01:19:43.039 --> 01:19:45.359 says that the death pimple is against the Gospel, but 1165 01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:48.439 come up with about five different ways to make sense 1166 01:19:48.479 --> 01:19:51.239 of it. He says, so these people are sophists. They 1167 01:19:51.319 --> 01:19:59.079 use sophistry but how is Muslims have the faith of 1168 01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:02.319 Abraham and love and worship God like we do. How 1169 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:03.279 is that at all. 1170 01:20:05.239 --> 01:20:05.760 Meshable? 1171 01:20:06.760 --> 01:20:11.600 Mashable smashable with Cantaze Domino that we just read that 1172 01:20:11.720 --> 01:20:14.439 says that even if you shed blood in a heretical 1173 01:20:14.479 --> 01:20:16.600 sect for the name of Christ, if you're not in 1174 01:20:16.640 --> 01:20:20.199 community with the papacy, you're damned. Well, guess what. They're 1175 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:24.840 not meshable, they're obvious contradictions. And that's why everybody who's 1176 01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:28.800 honest with himself just says, this is a contradiction, Like 1177 01:20:28.880 --> 01:20:32.840 I can't praying a moss towards Mecca and then turn 1178 01:20:32.880 --> 01:20:37.520 around and deny that this is who we called crusades 1179 01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:42.279 against Hello, it's in your face. And a lot of 1180 01:20:42.279 --> 01:20:43.239 times Rome Kelly. 1181 01:20:43.079 --> 01:20:46.119 Said, well, if God was really allowing and permitting a 1182 01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:48.640 deception with Rome, wouldn't he make it obvious? 1183 01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:54.920 He has. It is obvious. It has been displayed before 1184 01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:58.840 the entire world for seventy plus years, and every day 1185 01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:02.560 almost Francis grants us a new scandal that helps us 1186 01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:07.039 to see. Yeah, absolutely, he doesn't believe the Catholic faith. 1187 01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:10.560 He doesn't believe the Christian faith. In fact, Francis hates 1188 01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:14.760 you and he makes fun of you. All you tradcats 1189 01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:17.199 are arguing for the guy who hates you and makes 1190 01:21:17.199 --> 01:21:19.399 fun of you. He thinks you're ridiculous. He one hundred 1191 01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:24.439 percent absolutely serves the globalist agenda. Remember the globalist agenda 1192 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.760 that Trent says doesn't exist. There is no such thing 1193 01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:30.279 as that. Here's your genius Roman Catholic apologist who's so 1194 01:21:30.520 --> 01:21:34.439 normy turbo noormy that he doesn't even know what the 1195 01:21:34.600 --> 01:21:38.439 nWo is. He doesn't even know what Davos is, doesn't 1196 01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:42.239 know what Klaus talks about. He says that my positions 1197 01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:45.760 are the equivalent to chick tracks. You are listening to 1198 01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:50.039 a normy on your religious soul decision who doesn't know 1199 01:21:50.119 --> 01:21:52.720 that there's Davos in a World Economic Forum and all 1200 01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:56.119 that stuff. Why would you listen to somebody so naive 1201 01:21:56.600 --> 01:22:03.039 and silly about how the world works, but you think 1202 01:22:03.079 --> 01:22:07.039 he knows where to go spiritually in terms of your destiny. 1203 01:22:07.560 --> 01:22:13.840 You're foolish, you're ignorant, You're being used. And I don't 1204 01:22:13.840 --> 01:22:16.800 think that he's malicious. I think that he just doesn't know. 1205 01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:20.119 In fact, in the debate that I had with Trent, 1206 01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:24.600 there were like five philosophy basics that he had no 1207 01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:27.399 idea what they meant, he didn't even know what I 1208 01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:32.800 was talking about. So no, I don't think Trent is malicious. 1209 01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:36.439 I just think he has no idea. And that's why 1210 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:38.760 I've asked three times over the years for him to 1211 01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:42.840 debate me on the geopolitical entanglements of the papacy, and 1212 01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:47.560 he declines every time. And They've suggested multiple other professors 1213 01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:50.560 that I've reached out to who also decline. Why will 1214 01:22:50.600 --> 01:22:53.399 none of them debate me on the geopolitical history of 1215 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:57.079 the papacy? Why do none of them talk about Gladiol? 1216 01:22:57.399 --> 01:23:01.960 Why why do none of them take on the unam 1217 01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:07.600 sanctum quisa's Hoderock argument? If this is also clear and 1218 01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:09.920 so true, all you gotta do is de book my 1219 01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:14.000 arguments prove it right. Why don't they ignore it? Because 1220 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:16.880 they can't deal with it because they don't know and 1221 01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:20.680 they don't have answers. How can you guys not see this? 1222 01:23:22.439 --> 01:23:26.079 Why are you all still following these people? Taylor Marshall 1223 01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:30.520 has over a million subscribers. He says Mary came to 1224 01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:33.960 him and he saw her boobs. Are you insane? What 1225 01:23:34.039 --> 01:23:36.479 is wrong with you people? Why would you fall for that? 1226 01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:42.920 You don't have any discernment to recognize delusion. Mary did 1227 01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:45.560 not come to Taylor Marshall. I might as well call 1228 01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:52.800 Taylor Swift Taylor Marshall Swift. That wasn't Mary talking about milkers. 1229 01:23:53.279 --> 01:23:58.720 That was Taylor Marshall milking you idiots who follow him. 1230 01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:01.479 Why do you think Taylor Marshall won't debate me. I've 1231 01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:03.680 asked him for over ten years to do a debate 1232 01:24:04.479 --> 01:24:06.720 and he just blocks me and ignores me. Why because 1233 01:24:06.760 --> 01:24:09.880 it's a grift, dummies? Why do you Roman Celics have 1234 01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.760 to be so stupid? Why do you have to fall 1235 01:24:11.840 --> 01:24:12.680 for the grift. 1236 01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:20.079 In the household of God, which is the Church of 1237 01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:22.960 the Living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. 1238 01:24:23.640 --> 01:24:26.600 And of course Jesus himself, when founding his church, says 1239 01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:30.159 to Peter in Matthew sixteen eighteen, and I tell you 1240 01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:32.920 you are Peter, and on this rock I will build 1241 01:24:33.039 --> 01:24:36.199 my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail 1242 01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:36.920 against it. 1243 01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:39.239 I will give you the keys of the. 1244 01:24:39.239 --> 01:24:42.239 Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall 1245 01:24:42.279 --> 01:24:45.119 be bound in Heaven. And whatever you loose on earth 1246 01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:49.319 shall be loosed in heaven, Christ came to save the 1247 01:24:49.359 --> 01:24:53.319 world from sin and created a church to accomplish his mission. 1248 01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.880 And to that church he has given authority, protection and 1249 01:24:58.000 --> 01:25:01.000 power to do that which he he has predestined it 1250 01:25:01.039 --> 01:25:01.319 to do. 1251 01:25:02.319 --> 01:25:06.399 And well, you can't type in uh, don't type in 1252 01:25:06.479 --> 01:25:09.520 milkers because that you don't get the video that I 1253 01:25:09.560 --> 01:25:13.520 thought you're gonna get. So let me find this over here, 1254 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:15.319 because I have to play for you the Taylor Marshall 1255 01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:18.319 Milkers video. But if you type milkers into Twitter, you 1256 01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:21.760 get something else. Uh, let me find it this way. 1257 01:25:22.159 --> 01:25:25.800 I have to play this for you because it's ridiculous. 1258 01:25:26.079 --> 01:25:32.520 I have it saved in my bookmarks over here. Let 1259 01:25:32.520 --> 01:25:33.000 me find this. 1260 01:25:35.840 --> 01:25:38.119 No, I'll be like, oh, look, look what happens if 1261 01:25:38.119 --> 01:25:39.079 you tube in milkers. 1262 01:25:39.479 --> 01:25:42.479 Yeah, don't type that in. But at least they were 1263 01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:46.119 all chunky. So we'll have to make this a half 1264 01:25:46.119 --> 01:25:58.720 and half stream. You can search your bookmarks now, okay, yeah, 1265 01:25:58.840 --> 01:26:12.760 have like a million bookmarks, so let's search Taylor. Here 1266 01:26:12.800 --> 01:26:21.399 we go, just a bit of a reminder for you. 1267 01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:27.880 Is it true what I'm saying? Where did I get this? 1268 01:26:28.920 --> 01:26:29.840 Let's see. 1269 01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:32.760 See. 1270 01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:36.520 Well, I'm not a visionary and turning not a profit, 1271 01:26:36.680 --> 01:26:41.079 but I have seen supernatural things in my life as 1272 01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:44.119 a Christian of a Catholic and one of those things 1273 01:26:44.159 --> 01:26:48.720 happened last night, and I'm reluctant to share it. 1274 01:26:49.600 --> 01:26:52.479 But I think it'll be a comfort to other people. 1275 01:26:52.640 --> 01:26:55.319 So yes to a confession. 1276 01:26:56.079 --> 01:26:58.840 And one of the things I confessed was being prideful 1277 01:26:59.199 --> 01:27:02.880 and judgmental and worried and concerned about the state of 1278 01:27:02.960 --> 01:27:09.560 the church and corruption in the church and scandals, and it's. 1279 01:27:09.479 --> 01:27:11.199 Been a kind of a struggle for me lately. 1280 01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:13.079 So anyway, I confess that, and the priest had some 1281 01:27:13.199 --> 01:27:16.319 very good things to counsel me on that. And later 1282 01:27:16.399 --> 01:27:19.640 that night, which was last night, I was doing examination 1283 01:27:19.680 --> 01:27:23.880 of conscience before bed, and I was thinking on that 1284 01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:27.359 point of being worried and concerned and judgmental and all 1285 01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:31.439 these negative thoughts and emotions about the Holy Catholic Church, 1286 01:27:31.479 --> 01:27:35.239 Mother Church. And as I was suddenly like I saw 1287 01:27:35.279 --> 01:27:38.399 this beautiful woman. She had blonde hair, she was perfect, 1288 01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:41.840 no wrinkles, no spots, and I immediately discerned that this 1289 01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:43.159 was Holy Mother of the Church. 1290 01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:46.920 And she was writhing in pain. 1291 01:27:47.039 --> 01:27:49.159 She was in a bed and there's sheets on her, 1292 01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:52.640 and she was very sick. And I noticed that her 1293 01:27:52.680 --> 01:27:58.560 breasts were engorged with milk, tons of milk, and there 1294 01:27:58.600 --> 01:28:01.640 were babies and children crying out to her that were hungry, 1295 01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:04.239 and she wanted to feed them, and she was upset, 1296 01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:06.880 but she was so sick she could hardly sit up 1297 01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:10.079 from her bed. And then I thought to myself, Oh, 1298 01:28:10.119 --> 01:28:13.159 she doesn't want she's poisoned. She doesn't want to nurse 1299 01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:16.199 the children because then she'll give them the poison. 1300 01:28:16.279 --> 01:28:17.720 And then there was this voice. 1301 01:28:17.720 --> 01:28:19.520 It was like God or an angel, I don't know, 1302 01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:24.760 and it said, no, the milk is still pure. And 1303 01:28:24.800 --> 01:28:26.720 so I saw her there and all her beauty but 1304 01:28:26.800 --> 01:28:32.119 so sick and struggling and loving those children, and seeing 1305 01:28:32.159 --> 01:28:37.439 her all that milk stored up there, and I realized 1306 01:28:37.479 --> 01:28:43.479 that the sacramental graces, the dogma, the doctrine, the the. 1307 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:46.359 Scuba had a damn dirty dream. That he's turning into 1308 01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:51.319 a spiritual vision to milk all you idiots to follow him. 1309 01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:54.319 It's kind of unreal, really, but I mean, I guess 1310 01:28:54.319 --> 01:28:56.600 this shows us the quality of the audience that we 1311 01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:59.399 would get in the Taylor Marshalls sphere. I mean, imagine 1312 01:28:59.399 --> 01:29:03.239 believing that this dude is like your your ideological leader, right, 1313 01:29:03.640 --> 01:29:06.439 a dude who literally takes dirty dreams about boobs and 1314 01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:10.840 turns it into like spiritual, mystical, like prophetic words for 1315 01:29:10.920 --> 01:29:14.560 the church. I mean, you can't make this up. And 1316 01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:17.079 ra mccalics love that. They eat this stuff up, dude, 1317 01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:20.880 especially this Mariyan mystical nonsense. They eat it up, dude. 1318 01:29:20.920 --> 01:29:24.680 In fact, they actually follow that more than anything else 1319 01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:28.720 in fact. And so and ultimately what happens is when 1320 01:29:29.039 --> 01:29:31.640 Roman Catholics are presented with a lot of the theological 1321 01:29:31.640 --> 01:29:34.800 dogmatic problems, what do they end up resorting to? They 1322 01:29:34.840 --> 01:29:37.439 end up resorting to just marrying stuff. Well, Mary appeared, 1323 01:29:37.479 --> 01:29:39.079 and you know, I don't care. I don't care about 1324 01:29:39.079 --> 01:29:43.680 the theology because Fatima Rosary that's all. That's it, That's 1325 01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:47.479 what I got, and that's their kind of fallback. But 1326 01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:50.520 eventually they realized this and this is most people who 1327 01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:53.000 you know, have the Rmancaloic phase and then come out 1328 01:29:53.000 --> 01:29:55.760 of it. I never really, I guess I did kind 1329 01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:58.279 of retreat into the Maryan stuff maybe at one point 1330 01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:00.319 when I was really struggling with a lot of these 1331 01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:05.960 theological issues. But eventually you just kind of realized, like, well, 1332 01:30:06.039 --> 01:30:08.439 just praying the Rosary over and over and over is 1333 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:13.760 not actually solving my intellectual problems because I'm noticing big, 1334 01:30:13.840 --> 01:30:18.840 huge contradictions and just suppressing it and acting like it's 1335 01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:22.119 not there doesn't make it go away. Keeps popping up. 1336 01:30:22.439 --> 01:30:25.560 He keeps popping up like Taylor Marshall's Privy member when 1337 01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:30.520 he's having his dirty dreams. Right, So keep in mind, 1338 01:30:31.199 --> 01:30:36.199 I didn't make this up. It's a classic here it is. 1339 01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:41.039 Be sure and following me right there, and we'll open 1340 01:30:41.039 --> 01:30:42.439 it up in a second. We're almost done with this 1341 01:30:42.479 --> 01:30:46.159 guy's video, just a few more minutes. It was pretty bad. 1342 01:30:46.199 --> 01:30:48.520 It's about what I expected, just super low tier stuff. 1343 01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:50.239 He kind of surprised me for I thought he was 1344 01:30:50.239 --> 01:30:51.880 gonna get kind of kind of deep. When he starts 1345 01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:54.399 talking about circular argument, it's like, Wow, maybe this is 1346 01:30:54.439 --> 01:30:58.560 gonna have some some meat and bones to it. No, 1347 01:30:58.840 --> 01:31:03.319 it was as barren as his Novusorto backdrop that he had. 1348 01:31:03.399 --> 01:31:07.760 Looks his backdrop looks like every novusort of church behind 1349 01:31:07.800 --> 01:31:08.960 their Masonic altar. 1350 01:31:09.079 --> 01:31:12.359 Right household of God, according to Ephesians two twenty, is 1351 01:31:12.520 --> 01:31:15.479 the one that stands today, built on the foundation of 1352 01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:18.760 the apostles, with Jesus Christ as the cornerstone, and as 1353 01:31:18.760 --> 01:31:22.279 Matthew sixteen says, with Peter as the rock, that church 1354 01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:27.479 is the Catholic Church. Now let's talk about reason. Is 1355 01:31:27.520 --> 01:31:31.880 Catholicism reasonable? I know this is the most subjective aspect, 1356 01:31:32.399 --> 01:31:34.880 but sometimes we just have to ask ourselves does this 1357 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:38.399 make any sense? When I think about Christianity, there are 1358 01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:42.399 two main narratives that explain its nature and origin. Jesus 1359 01:31:42.439 --> 01:31:45.880 came to the world, lived and died, rose again, ascended 1360 01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:50.279 into heaven, and promised to return. Both narratives agree on this, 1361 01:31:50.600 --> 01:31:53.680 but the question is how his mission and message were 1362 01:31:53.720 --> 01:31:58.079 meant to be spread worldwide. One narrative says that God's 1363 01:31:58.399 --> 01:32:01.159 word in the Bible is the only infallible source of 1364 01:32:01.159 --> 01:32:04.520 authentic Christianity, and that the way we discover the faith 1365 01:32:04.600 --> 01:32:07.199 is by reading and understanding the Bible. There can be 1366 01:32:07.239 --> 01:32:11.159 other sources of information, but the Bible alone gives us 1367 01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:13.520 what we need to know about Christianity and how to 1368 01:32:13.560 --> 01:32:16.439 live it. This is the narrative in which I was raised. 1369 01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:20.600 I know this narrative well. The problem with this narrative 1370 01:32:20.920 --> 01:32:23.920 is that it doesn't answer some fundamental questions. By what 1371 01:32:23.960 --> 01:32:27.399 authority do we know that the Bible is God's word, 1372 01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:30.399 and even what it is, how do we account for 1373 01:32:30.439 --> 01:32:31.119 the fast difference? 1374 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:34.840 Uh oh, now we're back to epistemic circles that he 1375 01:32:34.920 --> 01:32:39.239 has not figured out. So remember this video was intended 1376 01:32:39.279 --> 01:32:46.119 to dispel the circular augmentation that supposedly Roman Catholics engage in. 1377 01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:48.880 But now, in order to know that the Bible is 1378 01:32:48.920 --> 01:32:53.359 the word of God, it requires another authority, namely the papacy. 1379 01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:56.119 But remember he said at the beginning, the papacy is 1380 01:32:56.159 --> 01:32:58.840 not a circule circle. That's the Romancalllics says, is not 1381 01:32:58.880 --> 01:33:02.000 a circle based on the Bible, but it is. 1382 01:33:03.239 --> 01:33:05.840 This is an interpretation of the Bible by those who 1383 01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:06.920 hold to this narrative. 1384 01:33:07.439 --> 01:33:09.239 Who gets to make the call when it comes to 1385 01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:10.239 differences of opinion. 1386 01:33:10.800 --> 01:33:16.239 But this is the common conflation once again, between existential 1387 01:33:16.399 --> 01:33:22.119 individual certitude and normative authority. Every Roman pop apologist falls 1388 01:33:22.159 --> 01:33:26.159 for this category error. It's a category error. It's not 1389 01:33:26.159 --> 01:33:30.159 a fallacy. It's more of a category error because at 1390 01:33:30.159 --> 01:33:32.159 the end of the day, everybody's in the same boat 1391 01:33:32.199 --> 01:33:36.039 when it comes to knowing or finding certitude on the 1392 01:33:36.039 --> 01:33:39.039 interpretation of this or that passage or whatever. In church 1393 01:33:39.079 --> 01:33:42.520 theology or whatever. We're all individually going to have to 1394 01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:45.359 rely on in some way our own reasoning and reading 1395 01:33:45.439 --> 01:33:50.079 of those documents that is not bypassed by positing the pope. 1396 01:33:50.800 --> 01:33:54.640 All that does is move that problem, the individual epistemic 1397 01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:58.760 certitude problem, back a step, because now an individual Catholic 1398 01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:02.039 has to sift through all the papal documents and all 1399 01:34:02.079 --> 01:34:05.760 the councils and the encyclicals and on on and the 1400 01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:10.840 Bible to interpret them properly. So you haven't solved the 1401 01:34:10.880 --> 01:34:14.359 epistemic dilemma. You've moved the problem back a step and 1402 01:34:14.399 --> 01:34:17.800 said that the papacy solves it. But it begs the question, Well, 1403 01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:21.319 that assumes I'm interpreting the papal claim statements and documents 1404 01:34:21.319 --> 01:34:26.479 and dogmas correctly. So you don't solve an epistemic problem 1405 01:34:26.520 --> 01:34:31.000 with interpreting the texts by adding another external textual thing, 1406 01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:34.920 a bunch of papal documents. You see, it just adds 1407 01:34:34.960 --> 01:34:38.399 to the problem. What he's talking about is what we 1408 01:34:38.439 --> 01:34:42.279 call normative authority. That is, there some group within history 1409 01:34:42.560 --> 01:34:46.560 that has the authority to bind people's consciences to an interpretation. 1410 01:34:47.239 --> 01:34:51.640 But that's a different category. Normative authority. That's an ethical thing. 1411 01:34:51.720 --> 01:34:54.319 I mean, it relates to epistemology, but it's an ethical 1412 01:34:54.359 --> 01:34:59.840 domain versus the individual certitude about this or that passages interpretation. 1413 01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:05.479 That's an epistemic issue. So every Roman Calariy pop apologist 1414 01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:09.119 is only hurting their own case ultimately, even though they 1415 01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:12.479 don't see it right away by making this conflation between 1416 01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:15.800 a category error two different categories. Does that make sense? 1417 01:35:17.399 --> 01:35:20.560 Does it make sense that Jesus would expect his followers 1418 01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:23.520 to know his mission in teaching through a book alone, 1419 01:35:23.680 --> 01:35:27.600 especially one he never commanded anyone to write that wouldn't 1420 01:35:27.600 --> 01:35:30.279 exist in its final form for hundreds of years? 1421 01:35:31.159 --> 01:35:32.159 Now, what about the people who? 1422 01:35:32.239 --> 01:35:34.880 But that same question can be asked, does Jesus expect 1423 01:35:34.880 --> 01:35:37.840 his followers to sift through tens of thousands of pages 1424 01:35:38.119 --> 01:35:41.479 of papal documents to know the faith? You just argue 1425 01:35:41.520 --> 01:35:44.119 that the papacy and its documents are the thing that 1426 01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:46.960 is the key to know the faith. But you didn't 1427 01:35:47.039 --> 01:35:50.840 do anything except make the problem even bigger by tacking 1428 01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:53.520 on tens of thousands of pages of more documents that 1429 01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:54.479 you have to learn. 1430 01:35:54.520 --> 01:35:57.479 Who lived before it was written and compiled? How did 1431 01:35:57.479 --> 01:36:57.640 they know what Christianity was how would future disputes about 1432 01:36:57.640 --> 01:37:01.000 the Bible be settled? Does it make sense that Jesus 1433 01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:03.960 would do it this way, especially when the Bible is. 1434 01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:06.640 So Once again that didn't register. All I was saying 1435 01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:09.920 is that I can easily refute this argument by saying, 1436 01:37:10.439 --> 01:37:14.119 if the papacy is necessary in the magisterium, as you're saying, 1437 01:37:14.119 --> 01:37:17.720 which is the papacy to know the faith epistemically? I 1438 01:37:17.720 --> 01:37:19.800 can easily refute this and show this to be a 1439 01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:22.920 really stupid, low tier argument by pointing out that how 1440 01:37:22.920 --> 01:37:24.960 did a Christian in the year three hundred know what 1441 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:27.680 the faith was who didn't have access to Rome and 1442 01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:32.279 there's no ecumenical council yet there's not been a magisterial pronouncement. 1443 01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:34.760 So did all the Christians in the first, second, and 1444 01:37:34.840 --> 01:37:37.279 third century who didn't have access to Rome and had 1445 01:37:37.279 --> 01:37:40.159 not been in an ecumenical council, yet they didn't know 1446 01:37:40.239 --> 01:37:43.000 the faith? By this dumb argument, that's what he would 1447 01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:47.279 have to say, because you can't know without the magisterium. Yet, 1448 01:37:47.319 --> 01:37:49.119 if I'm a Christian in the year three hundred in 1449 01:37:49.159 --> 01:37:51.479 Corinth I have no access to Rome, I don't know 1450 01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:53.880 what they're up to. There's not been an ecumenical council yet, 1451 01:37:53.920 --> 01:37:55.159 and I see as a few years away. 1452 01:37:56.279 --> 01:37:58.279 How do I know the faith? I don't know. I 1453 01:37:58.319 --> 01:37:59.880 don't know until Rome pills us. 1454 01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:02.840 This is so silly, it's such a bad argument. But 1455 01:38:03.279 --> 01:38:06.960 it's a bad argument that dupes millions of people. Millions 1456 01:38:06.960 --> 01:38:09.600 of people fall for this super low tiered don Roman 1457 01:38:09.640 --> 01:38:10.560 Catholic argument. 1458 01:38:13.199 --> 01:38:13.960 Says otherwise. 1459 01:38:14.880 --> 01:38:18.600 For example, in Matthew chapter eighteen, Jesus tells his followers 1460 01:38:18.640 --> 01:38:21.399 to take their disputes that they can't settle to the church. 1461 01:38:22.079 --> 01:38:24.479 But how can this command be applied in the narrative 1462 01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:28.039 that denies the existence of a visible church with authority 1463 01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:30.920 not to mention when looking at the history of the church, 1464 01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:32.960 it didn't function according. 1465 01:38:33.359 --> 01:38:37.640 You notice that demonstrates the very thing I said. He 1466 01:38:37.760 --> 01:38:44.039 conflated epistemic certitude with normative authority. So the passage he's 1467 01:38:44.079 --> 01:38:45.960 using in Matthew eighteen, which by the way, does not 1468 01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:47.800 make it about Peter, It actually makes it about the 1469 01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:51.039 whole college of the Apostles, is a passage dealing with 1470 01:38:51.239 --> 01:38:54.479 solving disputes in the church by the authority of the bishops, 1471 01:38:54.600 --> 01:38:58.760 who can bind consciences. That's the Orthodox position. But remember 1472 01:38:58.800 --> 01:39:01.119 he started this section of his video by saying that 1473 01:39:01.359 --> 01:39:05.479 the only way to have certainty about theological doctrines was 1474 01:39:05.520 --> 01:39:10.239 with the magisterium. Well, then, how did a Christian in 1475 01:39:10.279 --> 01:39:14.239 the first, second, and third century, admittedly without any magisterium 1476 01:39:14.279 --> 01:39:15.880 or knowledge of what Rome was up to in the 1477 01:39:15.880 --> 01:39:19.520 ancient world, there's no Council of Nicea. Yet, how did 1478 01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:22.920 they know the doctrines? How did they know the truth? 1479 01:39:25.159 --> 01:39:28.399 Did they all just make a hodge pilgrimage to Rome? 1480 01:39:28.920 --> 01:39:31.640 Was Rome the mecca that they all we have? We're 1481 01:39:31.680 --> 01:39:33.039 going to allosk the pope with the faith? 1482 01:39:33.239 --> 01:39:33.279 Was? 1483 01:39:33.600 --> 01:39:37.239 This is so ahistorical and stupid. Yet if his argument 1484 01:39:37.359 --> 01:39:40.600 is the case, he would have to say that the first, second, 1485 01:39:40.600 --> 01:39:43.479 and third century Christians did not know the faith until 1486 01:39:43.560 --> 01:39:46.119 Rome told them what the faith was. And I didn't 1487 01:39:46.119 --> 01:39:48.239 even know was an ecumenical council until Rome said, it's 1488 01:39:48.239 --> 01:39:51.279 an ecumenical council. Yet this guy is not at the 1489 01:39:51.279 --> 01:39:53.960 point yet where he's going to learn that Constantinople one 1490 01:39:54.439 --> 01:39:58.159 was called without Rome was still an ecumenical council accepted 1491 01:39:58.199 --> 01:40:02.239 as such, and retroact accepted by Rome a few centuries later, 1492 01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:05.399 which disproves the whole Romancolic position and proves that they 1493 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:08.800 didn't think that they needed Rome to know the dogmas. 1494 01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:11.239 That narrative for over fifteen hundred years, and for the 1495 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:14.279 vast majority of Christians in the world, it still doesn't. 1496 01:40:14.680 --> 01:40:18.640 Does that seem reasonable? I don't think so. What does 1497 01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:22.119 seem reasonable is that Jesus gave his authority to his 1498 01:40:22.199 --> 01:40:26.039 apostles and founded a church that would, by his authority, 1499 01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:30.319 protection and power fulfill his mission to bring the Gospel 1500 01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:33.760 to the world. Through his church, the Bible was written 1501 01:40:33.800 --> 01:40:36.680 and compiled, and through his church it is rightly taught 1502 01:40:36.680 --> 01:40:40.960 and interpreted. Through his church, the world is evangelized. Through 1503 01:40:41.039 --> 01:40:44.479 his church, the fullness of truth is revealed. Even though 1504 01:40:44.479 --> 01:40:48.039 its members are sinners. Jesus works in and through them 1505 01:40:48.079 --> 01:40:51.319 to accomplish his mission. This is the way things worked 1506 01:40:51.359 --> 01:40:53.840 when Jesus was on earth, and that was the way 1507 01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:56.880 things were right at the beginning after he left, and 1508 01:40:56.960 --> 01:40:58.039 this is how right. 1509 01:40:58.359 --> 01:41:00.640 But none of that was Vatican won. And now he's 1510 01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:04.119 trying to argue like it's identically the same communion and. 1511 01:41:04.119 --> 01:41:07.119 Structure things have continued to this day. 1512 01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:09.000 Now wait a minute, in the middle of this video, 1513 01:41:09.039 --> 01:41:11.039 he said that there's a lot of things that are 1514 01:41:11.199 --> 01:41:15.399 vastly different, which constitute doctrinal development. But now by the 1515 01:41:15.479 --> 01:41:17.279 end of the video, oh no, it's actually all the same. 1516 01:41:17.479 --> 01:41:22.680 It's basically like papacy functioning in the year one ten 1517 01:41:23.439 --> 01:41:26.479 pretty much identically the same as papacy functioning in twenty 1518 01:41:26.479 --> 01:41:31.920 twenty four. Uh No, anybody who has a level two 1519 01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:38.279 inductory induction to church history knows that by the Middle Ages, 1520 01:41:38.359 --> 01:41:42.640 when we've got Quisat's hotarock emperor Pope, that is not 1521 01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:46.880 at all in continuity with the papacy in the time 1522 01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:51.119 of you know, the persecutions of Diocletian or whatever, night 1523 01:41:51.199 --> 01:41:53.600 and day. And he already admitted this, because he admitted that, 1524 01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:55.600 Oh yeah, by the Middle Ages, it's like a vastly 1525 01:41:55.600 --> 01:41:58.560 different structure. But that's just doctoral development, dude. But now 1526 01:41:58.640 --> 01:42:01.439 it's not doctoral development, he said, it's all basically the same. 1527 01:42:01.760 --> 01:42:09.560 So all a bunch of assertions, propaganda moving the goalpost, elasticity, ambiguity, 1528 01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:14.359 very little argumentation, maybe only a couple arguments here or 1529 01:42:14.399 --> 01:42:17.479 there throughout this video, with a couple of proof texts, 1530 01:42:18.079 --> 01:42:24.199 and yeah, just just super low tier assertions. That's that's 1531 01:42:24.199 --> 01:42:26.800 about what I expected. But this is the stuff that 1532 01:42:27.840 --> 01:42:32.239 captures you know, a quarter million people, right, So this 1533 01:42:32.319 --> 01:42:35.000 is not that old of a video already been seen 1534 01:42:35.039 --> 01:42:38.119 by a quarter million people. And this is why, this 1535 01:42:38.159 --> 01:42:41.920 is why there's so much just repeating of bad arguments 1536 01:42:41.960 --> 01:42:44.800 all the time. And the whole the second half of 1537 01:42:44.840 --> 01:42:48.319 his video was that freaking stupid argument about the papac 1538 01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:51.680 He's going to give you certitude, which is a basic 1539 01:42:51.880 --> 01:42:55.479 epistemic mistake. How is it going to give you certitude 1540 01:42:55.479 --> 01:42:59.720 when it's more documents to come through? Think about it. 1541 01:42:59.760 --> 01:43:03.960 This is the Protestant Magisterium, so you only have to 1542 01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:07.520 comb through what, however many pages? This is two thousand pages. 1543 01:43:08.439 --> 01:43:10.279 So I got to come through two thousand pages of 1544 01:43:10.279 --> 01:43:12.560 this to make sense of the faith if I'm a Protestant. 1545 01:43:13.279 --> 01:43:15.159 But if I'm a Roman Catholic, you see, oh, the 1546 01:43:15.199 --> 01:43:18.560 papacy solves these things. Oh so now I got to read, however, 1547 01:43:18.640 --> 01:43:21.920 many thousands of pages of papal documents to know the faith. 1548 01:43:24.479 --> 01:43:28.159 So it just taxed on more papers to read. How 1549 01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:30.520 does that put me in a better episemic position to 1550 01:43:30.720 --> 01:43:35.199 know the faith? Because he literally said to have certitude, 1551 01:43:35.279 --> 01:43:37.439 you go to the pope and the magistian which has 1552 01:43:37.479 --> 01:43:42.880 a giant, massive doctrines and documents and it is not true. Right, 1553 01:43:42.960 --> 01:43:46.039 this is the parallel to Islam. Right when you get 1554 01:43:46.039 --> 01:43:49.159 into Islam, all the idiots on the internet falling for Islam. 1555 01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:50.960 It's simple, you just got to believe a few things 1556 01:43:50.960 --> 01:43:53.239 about God's one and then they realize, no, you got 1557 01:43:53.239 --> 01:43:57.600 to believe like giant sections, pages, thousands of pages of hadiths. 1558 01:43:58.199 --> 01:44:01.039 That's also what you gotta believe. It's not just the Qur'an, 1559 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:05.199 it's all this other junk, and it's full of stupid stuff. 1560 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:07.840 Guess what, no different in Rome. It's not just a 1561 01:44:07.880 --> 01:44:10.600 handful of ex cathed doctrines that you have to believe. 1562 01:44:10.880 --> 01:44:17.479 Totally not true, pop basic bitch Catholic myth that you 1563 01:44:17.560 --> 01:44:20.399 only have to believe a few ex cathed doctors. I 1564 01:44:20.439 --> 01:44:22.199 don't even know where they come up with this, Like 1565 01:44:22.239 --> 01:44:25.640 who in the Roman Catholic world is telling them you 1566 01:44:25.720 --> 01:44:28.039 only have to believe the exca theater statements. That is 1567 01:44:28.119 --> 01:44:32.399 just not even close to anything true in any Catholic theology. 1568 01:44:33.199 --> 01:44:37.159 Like even the Catholic Catechism is proposed as a totality 1569 01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:40.560 catechism for you to believe that you're supposed to believe 1570 01:44:40.600 --> 01:44:44.640 in with docility in Catholic moral theology. It's just a 1571 01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:48.600 total myth, akin to the myth of the idiot new 1572 01:44:48.640 --> 01:44:51.399 converts to Islam who think I only have to believe 1573 01:44:51.439 --> 01:44:57.079 a few things. Now totally not true. All right, we're 1574 01:44:57.079 --> 01:45:01.520 gonna open it up. We've seen enough of Catholic Scott 1575 01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:04.880 Stap over here with his achy breaky heart video argument 1576 01:45:05.560 --> 01:45:08.680 don't tell my hort my achy breaking prost and hort 1577 01:45:08.800 --> 01:45:11.560 a news don't thank you don By the way, he 1578 01:45:11.640 --> 01:45:14.560 literally looks like he looks like a cross between Billy 1579 01:45:14.640 --> 01:45:17.960 Ray and Scott Stap We're gonna open it up. I 1580 01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:20.039 want to hear your best arguments. It is not restricted 1581 01:45:20.039 --> 01:45:20.880 to Catholicism. 1582 01:45:21.279 --> 01:45:21.439 Uh. 1583 01:45:21.479 --> 01:45:24.439 That video just popped up, and it triggered me. I'm triggered, 1584 01:45:24.439 --> 01:45:27.520 like triggering pop ever. Hear it triggered me. I started shaking. 1585 01:45:27.680 --> 01:45:32.439 I could have I couldn't handle it. I had to reply. 1586 01:45:33.880 --> 01:45:36.760 And by the way, after my fourth espresso, I'm lit, boy, 1587 01:45:36.880 --> 01:45:43.039 I'm hyped up. We started off straight up evening MPR radio. 1588 01:45:43.159 --> 01:45:46.199 I was cool, calm and collected, buddy. But now I'm 1589 01:45:46.199 --> 01:45:49.840 going I'm gone insane. I'm like off the hook. I'm sweating. 1590 01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:53.000 It's hot in here. I'm ready to get down and 1591 01:45:53.159 --> 01:45:57.359 dirty baby with debate. Not what you pers are thinking. 1592 01:45:57.640 --> 01:46:00.760 We're gonna open it up open for him. I apologize 1593 01:46:00.760 --> 01:46:04.960 for subjecting you to that nonsense from Taylor Marshall, but 1594 01:46:05.039 --> 01:46:08.239 we always have to revisit this because, I mean, a 1595 01:46:08.319 --> 01:46:12.439 million people plus follow this goofball and he's literally like 1596 01:46:12.439 --> 01:46:16.800 a four foot goofball. I'm just kind of amazed, like 1597 01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:22.760 people can't. These people don't have discernment, Vain, what's up? 1598 01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:28.399 It's not restricted to Catholson. By the way, if you 1599 01:46:28.439 --> 01:46:30.399 want to come with your atheist arguments, you want to 1600 01:46:30.439 --> 01:46:41.680 come with your Protestant, Calvinist, Muslim, Hebrew Roots, Judaism, whatever else, Mormons, Black, Heeber, Israelites. 1601 01:46:42.279 --> 01:46:45.399 It's all on the table. Bring it, bring it, come, 1602 01:46:45.479 --> 01:46:48.279 smash me, refute me. I'm so eager, I'm so ready 1603 01:46:49.439 --> 01:46:53.000 to be defeated. Please put me in my place, Vain, 1604 01:46:53.039 --> 01:46:53.319 I'm you. 1605 01:46:55.800 --> 01:46:55.960 Deal. 1606 01:46:56.000 --> 01:46:56.560 What's up? Man? 1607 01:46:56.600 --> 01:46:56.680 So? 1608 01:46:57.880 --> 01:47:04.680 When arguing tag right, if saying denying God makes knowledge 1609 01:47:04.680 --> 01:47:05.640 claims impossible? 1610 01:47:05.720 --> 01:47:05.840 Right? 1611 01:47:05.880 --> 01:47:07.239 So when atheist asked. 1612 01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:10.319 Me, well, well then what is it about a different 1613 01:47:10.399 --> 01:47:13.520 theistic belief such as Calvinism, for example, that would make 1614 01:47:13.560 --> 01:47:16.560 knowledge impossible. Like would that be related at all to 1615 01:47:16.680 --> 01:47:19.359 like problems with the Trinity theology? 1616 01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:23.000 Yeah, So, like if you did want to apply Calvinism 1617 01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:26.199 tagged to Calvinism, it's a little more challenging because you 1618 01:47:26.359 --> 01:47:29.479 have to know a lot more about Orthodox metaphysics and 1619 01:47:29.520 --> 01:47:33.319 Trinitarian structures of the world. But it's not impossible. But 1620 01:47:33.359 --> 01:47:35.039 I would just say something like, you know, if the 1621 01:47:35.079 --> 01:47:38.239 Calvinists model of absolute divine simplicity is true, then Calvinists 1622 01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:42.960 are subjected to modal collapse, which makes God unknowable. So 1623 01:47:43.239 --> 01:47:45.479 right there, there's no God that you could know in 1624 01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:49.560 that system if you're consistent with their version of absolute 1625 01:47:49.560 --> 01:47:52.119 divine simplicity, which they do hold. Calvin is very explicit 1626 01:47:52.119 --> 01:47:55.560 about that. It's identical to Augustine's view that would undo 1627 01:47:55.640 --> 01:48:03.079 the possibility of knowledge. All right, thanks, and was it? 1628 01:48:03.119 --> 01:48:04.680 I don't know if if I got this quote correct, 1629 01:48:04.720 --> 01:48:07.239 but but I think father Deacon and I said in 1630 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:10.199 a or a video will listen to youill before he 1631 01:48:10.199 --> 01:48:14.439 said that Orthodoxy is in a privileged position in terms 1632 01:48:14.520 --> 01:48:16.840 of being able to justify knowledge claims. 1633 01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:19.439 Is that the correct way to say. 1634 01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:22.279 That, right, And the reason he's saying quote, privileged position 1635 01:48:22.399 --> 01:48:25.920 is because in our argument, in our view, we have 1636 01:48:26.039 --> 01:48:29.439 a Gods eye perspective, so in others, we're not subject 1637 01:48:29.560 --> 01:48:34.800 to the problems of secular epistemology, where in their perspectives 1638 01:48:34.880 --> 01:48:37.199 or an atheist epistemology, they're always going to be restricted 1639 01:48:37.239 --> 01:48:42.079 to the individual, finite empiricist perspective, so they don't have 1640 01:48:42.119 --> 01:48:44.880 any access to anything outside of their mind ultimately, right, 1641 01:48:44.880 --> 01:48:47.439 because they're not theists. There's no transcendent realm, et cetera. 1642 01:48:47.720 --> 01:48:51.319 So they're restricted to their own individual sense data experience, right, 1643 01:48:51.960 --> 01:48:56.640 and that immediately boxes them into a lot of problems 1644 01:48:56.680 --> 01:49:01.319 for explaining anything at all in terms of knowledge claims, metaphysics, 1645 01:49:01.359 --> 01:49:04.079 external world identity, over time, et cetera, et cetera. So 1646 01:49:05.079 --> 01:49:06.960 that's what he means is that we're in a privileged 1647 01:49:06.960 --> 01:49:11.680 position because our position is not grounded or starting with 1648 01:49:11.880 --> 01:49:17.600 individual sense data. The position comes from divine revelation, so 1649 01:49:17.640 --> 01:49:20.399 we have a God's eye perspective. And if you want 1650 01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:25.039 the specifics, that would mean that orthodox metaphysics, for example, 1651 01:49:25.079 --> 01:49:30.600 would not be subjected to the bootstrapping problem, but pretty 1652 01:49:30.640 --> 01:49:33.760 much every atheist would have to have some kind of 1653 01:49:34.800 --> 01:49:38.560 way to try to tackle the bootstrapping dilemma. 1654 01:49:40.960 --> 01:49:41.640 Merry Christmas. 1655 01:49:41.680 --> 01:49:44.039 I appreciate Hey, Merry Christmas. Do you thank you so much? 1656 01:49:45.840 --> 01:49:48.920 I don't want to wait in vain for your love. 1657 01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:52.920 It's a little bit of Bob Marley and any lenox 1658 01:49:53.000 --> 01:50:03.800 for you there, vain California Prepper. What's up? Thank you 1659 01:50:03.840 --> 01:50:05.880 guys for being so generous tonight, Merry Christmas? Do you 1660 01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:07.800 all happy? Debate? 1661 01:50:08.279 --> 01:50:08.600 Married? 1662 01:50:08.720 --> 01:50:09.399 Debate? Miss? 1663 01:50:10.760 --> 01:50:10.920 Oh? 1664 01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:12.760 Married debate? 1665 01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:17.079 Miss and may you have a logical Christmas? Go ahead? 1666 01:50:17.279 --> 01:50:17.600 I'm you. 1667 01:50:19.159 --> 01:50:19.359 Hey. 1668 01:50:19.399 --> 01:50:23.039 I had a question, uh for relating to like circular reasons. 1669 01:50:23.279 --> 01:50:24.800 So one of my family. 1670 01:50:24.560 --> 01:50:28.479 Members said something along the lines of, like the Orthodox 1671 01:50:28.520 --> 01:50:31.199 and Catholic Church, they just introduced like the Book of 1672 01:50:31.239 --> 01:50:34.359 Matthew into the cannon just because it said so along 1673 01:50:34.399 --> 01:50:36.479 the lines of like gase of Helena are favail against 1674 01:50:36.479 --> 01:50:38.039 the church, so they put that in there so that 1675 01:50:38.600 --> 01:50:39.439 they could. 1676 01:50:39.800 --> 01:50:42.600 Self certify themselves. How would I respond to. 1677 01:50:42.600 --> 01:50:47.359 This that type of argument, Well, the basis for accepting 1678 01:50:47.439 --> 01:50:55.079 Matthew is a long like episcopacy or see relative exercise. 1679 01:50:55.119 --> 01:50:58.159 In other words, it wasn't like a bunch of bishops 1680 01:50:58.159 --> 01:51:01.840 came together and said, let's put in the Gospel of 1681 01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:04.239 Matthew that the gates of Hell can prevail against the Church. 1682 01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:07.359 I mean, the Gospel of Matthew, like the other Gospels, 1683 01:51:07.479 --> 01:51:13.119 is part of a long historical textual tradition that had 1684 01:51:13.159 --> 01:51:17.520 to be analyzed from all the different bishoprics that had 1685 01:51:17.920 --> 01:51:21.399 Gospels of Matthew to compare them and to see, okay, 1686 01:51:21.439 --> 01:51:25.279 there is unanimity. There is a lot of commonality. It's 1687 01:51:25.399 --> 01:51:28.800 usually like ninety five to ninety eight percent commonality amongst 1688 01:51:28.880 --> 01:51:32.600 various textual traditions. They're very minor differences that relate to 1689 01:51:33.279 --> 01:51:38.720 translations of like grammatical errors or number mistakes here and there. 1690 01:51:38.960 --> 01:51:42.520 They're called scribal errors. But I'm not aware of any 1691 01:51:43.119 --> 01:51:47.439 like reputable historical textual scholar who thinks that there was 1692 01:51:47.479 --> 01:51:50.439 some conspiracy to insert, you know, the gates of Hell 1693 01:51:50.479 --> 01:51:53.960 won't prevail. I think that one way to see that, 1694 01:51:54.079 --> 01:51:59.479 if you wanted like an easy disprover of that, or 1695 01:51:59.520 --> 01:52:02.079 way to disc prove that, would be to look up 1696 01:52:03.119 --> 01:52:07.520 all the patriistic citations of Matthew sixteen eighteen across like 1697 01:52:07.720 --> 01:52:13.439 various traditions or various centuries. So for example, if you 1698 01:52:13.600 --> 01:52:18.079 have you'urinas citing it early, if you've got Cyprian citing 1699 01:52:18.079 --> 01:52:22.439 it early. If you've got Jerome Tratullian, if you've got 1700 01:52:22.479 --> 01:52:26.920 origin all of whom I assume, cite Matthew sixteen eighteen. 1701 01:52:26.960 --> 01:52:28.720 And if you get the Denny book, he'll he'll list 1702 01:52:28.760 --> 01:52:33.720 a bunch of these. You'll notice that there's commonality in 1703 01:52:33.800 --> 01:52:39.079 other cities across the Empire, which suggests that there was 1704 01:52:39.159 --> 01:52:42.760 not some late conspiracy to add the text. Does that 1705 01:52:42.800 --> 01:52:48.960 make sense, yep, it does. Thanks also the decision about 1706 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:52.520 canonicity for even things like Matthew and all that. I mean, 1707 01:52:52.520 --> 01:52:55.159 it's pretty I would say by the fourth and fifth 1708 01:52:55.199 --> 01:52:57.199 century there's not a whole letter dispute that I'm aware 1709 01:52:57.199 --> 01:53:00.920 of about the Gospels themselves. The Gospel of John actually 1710 01:53:00.960 --> 01:53:08.800 was somewhat doubted and disputed beyond the synoptics. And but 1711 01:53:08.960 --> 01:53:12.560 I don't think by like the time of Athenacious or 1712 01:53:12.600 --> 01:53:15.119 after Athenacious, like there's not a whole lot of debate 1713 01:53:15.199 --> 01:53:19.680 on the Gospels. It's more so the dispute is the 1714 01:53:19.760 --> 01:53:23.960 Catholic epistles, and you know, due to canonical texts. So 1715 01:53:24.199 --> 01:53:28.199 most of the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century debates and 1716 01:53:28.279 --> 01:53:33.239 questions about canonicity are like the Catholic Epistles and the 1717 01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:36.479 Book of Revelation, perhaps even though Athenasio is pretty much 1718 01:53:36.520 --> 01:53:48.680 convinced Rome to include it. Heath, what's up, Heath, Bar, 1719 01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:57.760 what's up? I'm you dude, Hey, Jay, Hey, going, what's up? 1720 01:53:58.840 --> 01:54:02.640 I'm just going to question about Peter and the Catholic Church. 1721 01:54:03.880 --> 01:54:05.720 Is there any proof that is there any proof at 1722 01:54:05.760 --> 01:54:08.439 all that Peter was actually in Rome, like the Catholic 1723 01:54:08.479 --> 01:54:10.159 Church claim, unlike Paul. 1724 01:54:11.840 --> 01:54:14.800 I think it is a valid tradition. Yeah, I think that, 1725 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:18.199 you know, the Orthodox Church does accept the tradition that 1726 01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:22.079 Rome is a doubly Apostolic see the see of Peter 1727 01:54:22.159 --> 01:54:24.880 and Paul. So yes, I would say it is a 1728 01:54:24.960 --> 01:54:27.880 valid tradition. But I don't think that Peter being in Rome, 1729 01:54:28.039 --> 01:54:31.079 or dying in Rome in any way somehow contributes to 1730 01:54:32.039 --> 01:54:35.840 the special terrorism and claims a Vatican one. I mean, 1731 01:54:36.479 --> 01:54:38.720 when you when you really ask them, why does Rome 1732 01:54:38.760 --> 01:54:41.199 get it? But not Alexander Antioch, It's like, well, he 1733 01:54:41.279 --> 01:54:44.720 died there, Okay, Well why does him dying there contribute 1734 01:54:45.520 --> 01:54:49.399 this vast you know, power and authority that we don't 1735 01:54:49.439 --> 01:54:51.359 really see elucidated until very late. 1736 01:54:54.039 --> 01:54:56.159 Yeah, because I just seem to use that scripture with 1737 01:54:56.279 --> 01:54:59.560 the Keys to the Kingdom with Peter and relate everything around, 1738 01:55:00.399 --> 01:55:04.159 just to centralize everything. But really it was Paul who 1739 01:55:04.199 --> 01:55:06.479 had more authority in Roman was preaching to the James 1740 01:55:06.520 --> 01:55:10.199 Tarlsien rhyme. So if anything, he should have more authority 1741 01:55:10.239 --> 01:55:11.920 in relation to being at the say. 1742 01:55:11.800 --> 01:55:14.880 Of Yeah, I actually I actually agree with that. I 1743 01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:20.560 mean yeah, I mean I think theologically speaking, I mean 1744 01:55:20.600 --> 01:55:23.680 it's Paul, that's the quote star of the New Testament, right, 1745 01:55:23.760 --> 01:55:27.960 I mean he rebukes Peter and Peter's wrong. So it's like, 1746 01:55:28.640 --> 01:55:32.920 you know, just just basic stuff still kind of I 1747 01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:37.800 think undermines what the Roman position develops into. And this 1748 01:55:37.840 --> 01:55:41.840 is a key thing to understand, Like the Roman Catholic 1749 01:55:42.359 --> 01:55:47.359 Advanced Medieval, late Medieval position, it takes a long time 1750 01:55:47.399 --> 01:55:51.720 for that to develop. It's an evolution and it doesn't 1751 01:55:52.399 --> 01:55:58.279 start with Peter or Victor or Damasis. You know. It's 1752 01:55:58.279 --> 01:56:01.760 like it's a thing that builds on a legitimate tradition 1753 01:56:02.399 --> 01:56:06.800 that becomes insane. Lo fi, what's up? 1754 01:56:06.800 --> 01:56:07.000 Man? 1755 01:56:11.479 --> 01:56:11.640 Kai? 1756 01:56:11.800 --> 01:56:12.319 Do you hear me? 1757 01:56:12.800 --> 01:56:15.039 Yeah? 1758 01:56:15.199 --> 01:56:17.520 I want to ask you a bit of a stupid question, 1759 01:56:17.760 --> 01:56:22.119 but do you think that most of the Catholic apologetics 1760 01:56:22.159 --> 01:56:26.479 are dishonest, because from my point of view, it's like 1761 01:56:26.640 --> 01:56:30.359 impossible to prove their points because the new documents like 1762 01:56:30.479 --> 01:56:34.640 Alexandria or Kiti literally say that the Orthodox are rights 1763 01:56:35.199 --> 01:56:37.199 and all the other points. 1764 01:56:37.239 --> 01:56:38.840 Like when I saw. 1765 01:56:38.840 --> 01:56:42.479 You, would you petrust debate, it seemed pretty obvious for me, 1766 01:56:43.760 --> 01:56:44.840 What do you say about that? 1767 01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:51.439 I think, so when it comes to a lot of 1768 01:56:51.439 --> 01:56:57.800 the Catholic apologists, I mean, unless they openly demonstrate outright dishonesty, 1769 01:56:58.479 --> 01:57:00.720 I don't know if I would say they're now necessarily 1770 01:57:00.800 --> 01:57:03.479 being dishonest. I think some of them are. I think 1771 01:57:03.520 --> 01:57:09.720 Lofton is, but I think typically rather than I mean, 1772 01:57:09.720 --> 01:57:11.560 maybe there are some cases. I don't watch a whole 1773 01:57:11.560 --> 01:57:14.720 lot of their content because you got to understand that 1774 01:57:14.840 --> 01:57:19.119 like today's Roman Catholic online paup apologists, they're really not 1775 01:57:19.199 --> 01:57:23.079 any different than the paup apologists from twenty years ago 1776 01:57:23.119 --> 01:57:27.119 that I was first introduced to Rome through. So like 1777 01:57:27.199 --> 01:57:32.359 the Peter Kreeft and the Scott Hawns and the Stephen 1778 01:57:32.439 --> 01:57:41.640 Ray and the Jerry Mattoitics Jimmy Aiken. I'm trying to 1779 01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:44.239 think of all the apologists of twenty years ago that 1780 01:57:44.279 --> 01:57:47.920 everybody knew in two thousand and three four, like that 1781 01:57:48.000 --> 01:57:52.479 whole class of guys, like they were saying the exact 1782 01:57:52.479 --> 01:57:55.880 same stuff that today's pap apologists say. I mean, the 1783 01:57:56.000 --> 01:58:01.239 Roman sphere of apologetics doesn't get any more sophisticated than 1784 01:58:01.279 --> 01:58:04.279 all the same stuff you hear them saying today. And 1785 01:58:04.920 --> 01:58:08.520 I mean, Ibarra might be a quote mind collector beyond 1786 01:58:08.600 --> 01:58:10.640 what the previous guys have done, because I guess his 1787 01:58:10.720 --> 01:58:13.960 book is like eight hundred pages of quote minds, and 1788 01:58:14.399 --> 01:58:16.560 you know, eight hundred pages of quote minds? How good 1789 01:58:16.560 --> 01:58:19.239 did that? How did he fare when UBI just asked him, well, 1790 01:58:19.279 --> 01:58:20.279 what about Virgilius? 1791 01:58:20.840 --> 01:58:23.760 Well, I ain't got a sufficient inswer to that yet, 1792 01:58:23.840 --> 01:58:26.199 so I'm not going to see so. 1793 01:58:26.640 --> 01:58:30.800 What did it do? And again like I'm not. I mean, 1794 01:58:31.520 --> 01:58:33.640 they literally don't say anything different than they said twenty 1795 01:58:33.720 --> 01:58:38.520 years ago. So are they being dishonest? Probably to a degree, 1796 01:58:38.960 --> 01:58:44.520 because I think after many years, the more you're exposed 1797 01:58:44.560 --> 01:58:49.000 to things and challenges and issues at a certain point, 1798 01:58:49.119 --> 01:58:54.560 Yet it does take dishonesty. But you know, I guess 1799 01:58:54.640 --> 01:58:59.680 that's for them to in their own consciences to sort out, 1800 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:03.840 because like you, Meg could get away with this on 1801 01:59:03.880 --> 01:59:09.279 the in the public sphere with duping people. But like inside, 1802 01:59:09.359 --> 01:59:12.359 in the inner conscience and in their inner heart their news, 1803 01:59:12.439 --> 01:59:14.840 they know they're not being honest with themselves. They know 1804 01:59:14.960 --> 01:59:18.239 that they're coming up with stuff to might to make 1805 01:59:18.279 --> 01:59:25.239 it work. I mean, just think of when Trent said, 1806 01:59:26.039 --> 01:59:28.479 Think of when Trent admitted that it does look like 1807 01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:31.199 France is saying that the death penalty is against the gospel. 1808 01:59:31.279 --> 01:59:34.039 Is a change in Caltholic morals and theology? Yeah, because 1809 01:59:34.079 --> 01:59:35.760 it is? And what did he say to answer it? 1810 01:59:36.239 --> 01:59:38.760 But there's about three or four different ways that you 1811 01:59:38.800 --> 01:59:41.720 could come up with to explain it. Come up with 1812 01:59:43.319 --> 01:59:46.399 so are we just system building and it's a big 1813 01:59:46.479 --> 01:59:51.359 unfalsifiable thing. So yeah, I mean, I'm gonna say that 1814 01:59:52.359 --> 01:59:56.439 I know that Lofton operates in a dishonest, snaky way. 1815 01:59:59.119 --> 02:00:03.840 I've never seen be openly dishonest. Although I mean to 1816 02:00:04.359 --> 02:00:07.720 double down on the fact that Triad is not a 1817 02:00:07.960 --> 02:00:12.159 the triad, it's a term that means anti trinitarianism. I mean, 1818 02:00:12.159 --> 02:00:14.920 it's just false and it really shows that Trend has 1819 02:00:14.960 --> 02:00:18.079 no idea what the Eastern tradition is on the Trinity, 1820 02:00:18.960 --> 02:00:20.960 not interested in any of that. I mean to go, 1821 02:00:21.359 --> 02:00:24.000 why be involved in any of that when you can 1822 02:00:24.079 --> 02:00:27.199 do a pop Roman Catholic video that gets two hundred 1823 02:00:27.199 --> 02:00:29.920 and fifty thousand views. So why deal with the actual 1824 02:00:30.000 --> 02:00:36.359 challenges from somebody like myself or UBI? When like there's 1825 02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:39.720 a giant market you can become a tailor Marshall and 1826 02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:42.840 get a million followers and talk about your you know, 1827 02:00:43.520 --> 02:00:47.520 your wet dreams or somehow special revelations from Mary. I 1828 02:00:47.520 --> 02:00:50.439 mean there's a million idiots that are ready to fall 1829 02:00:50.479 --> 02:00:54.199 for that. Do those million idiots want to talk about 1830 02:00:54.199 --> 02:00:57.840 the Alexander document? No, So maybe you're right, maybe it 1831 02:00:57.880 --> 02:01:12.600 actually has a lot of dishonesty. That's what's up? You're there? 1832 02:01:12.640 --> 02:01:12.960 What's something? 1833 02:01:12.960 --> 02:01:13.079 Man? 1834 02:01:14.479 --> 02:01:15.199 Hey can you hear me? 1835 02:01:16.800 --> 02:01:17.000 Hey? 1836 02:01:17.239 --> 02:01:19.600 Thank you for taking my call. So I have two 1837 02:01:19.600 --> 02:01:23.479 things I want to ask or get your opinion on. So, 1838 02:01:24.439 --> 02:01:27.640 like if I'm a Protestant, I'm not a Protestant, I'm 1839 02:01:27.640 --> 02:01:28.319 an Orthodox. 1840 02:01:28.359 --> 02:01:33.319 But from a Protestant perspective, when when they're spending time 1841 02:01:33.439 --> 02:01:39.119 trying to refute I guess normative authority the Orthodox Church, 1842 02:01:39.199 --> 02:01:42.279 or even I guess the Roman Catholic Church for that matter, 1843 02:01:42.720 --> 02:01:47.199 when they're when they're doing this, and some of them 1844 02:01:47.199 --> 02:01:50.880 would make the assertion and say, uh, well, no church 1845 02:01:51.359 --> 02:01:56.720 tradition has it all correct, aren't they, essentially, in your opinion, 1846 02:01:56.840 --> 02:01:58.560 refuting Christianity in general. 1847 02:02:00.279 --> 02:02:04.359 Yeah, that's an ambiguous phrase because what does that mean. 1848 02:02:04.439 --> 02:02:07.720 I mean, does that mean that no church tradition knows 1849 02:02:07.840 --> 02:02:11.720 everything or expresses everything exhaustively perfectly? I mean that could 1850 02:02:11.720 --> 02:02:14.359 mean a lot of different things. But it could also 1851 02:02:14.399 --> 02:02:19.880 be interpreted to mean that church's dogmas contradict. So it's 1852 02:02:19.960 --> 02:02:22.680 just an ambiguous phrase that would require I think, some 1853 02:02:22.760 --> 02:02:27.279 degree of specificity to understand exactly what they mean. But 1854 02:02:27.640 --> 02:02:31.560 if they mean dogmatically, then yeah, that would undermine the 1855 02:02:31.640 --> 02:02:33.479 promise that the church could not fail. 1856 02:02:35.000 --> 02:02:37.359 Awesome, and I appreciate that. And the next thing I 1857 02:02:37.399 --> 02:02:40.279 wanted to ask real quick. You were speaking about the 1858 02:02:40.439 --> 02:02:44.560 G eighty document earlier, and I was looking it up 1859 02:02:44.600 --> 02:02:47.399 and I did just a little bit of reading on it, 1860 02:02:47.439 --> 02:02:51.000 and it seems like, Okay, I don't know how much 1861 02:02:51.760 --> 02:02:54.600 involvement did the Pope have with this document, because couldn't 1862 02:02:54.600 --> 02:02:57.880 the Catholic just say, well, this is just you know, 1863 02:02:58.600 --> 02:02:59.920 this is not really dogmatic. 1864 02:03:00.920 --> 02:03:04.920 Well it doesn't matter. But the dogmatic or non dogmatic 1865 02:03:05.000 --> 02:03:07.800 status of this document doesn't matter, because these are the 1866 02:03:07.880 --> 02:03:11.840 Vatican's own theological commissions. So what that means is that 1867 02:03:11.880 --> 02:03:14.640 these are published with the approval of the Vatican. They're 1868 02:03:14.680 --> 02:03:18.840 on Vatican websites. Christianity dot v a is a Vatican website, 1869 02:03:18.840 --> 02:03:23.399 so it's it is a tacit implicit approval, And so 1870 02:03:23.560 --> 02:03:25.039 the Pope doesn't have to come out and say I 1871 02:03:25.119 --> 02:03:29.680 dogmatically state that ady is, you know, in accord with 1872 02:03:29.720 --> 02:03:32.880 the dogma. It doesn't have to because in Roman Callic theology, 1873 02:03:33.119 --> 02:03:37.000 the pope cannot teach error. So if this is a 1874 02:03:37.119 --> 02:03:43.560 Vatican approved document, this is a Vatican okay position, you see, 1875 02:03:45.000 --> 02:03:48.600 this is a Vatican synom this is a Vatican commission. 1876 02:03:49.199 --> 02:03:51.800 So no point is that it doesn't matter about whether 1877 02:03:51.800 --> 02:03:55.640 it's dogmatic or not. That's a deflection from the issue 1878 02:03:55.680 --> 02:03:59.920 of defectibility and indefectibility, because if this document is an error, 1879 02:04:00.239 --> 02:04:04.119 then why does the pope have on his website massive 1880 02:04:04.199 --> 02:04:05.159 theological error. 1881 02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:07.640 It makes. 1882 02:04:09.479 --> 02:04:09.640 Time. 1883 02:04:09.920 --> 02:04:11.840 But no, that's actually a really important point because a 1884 02:04:11.840 --> 02:04:14.840 lot of rom Meanchaolics will deflect into the status of 1885 02:04:14.880 --> 02:04:17.720 the document, which has absolutely nothing to do with whether 1886 02:04:17.760 --> 02:04:22.279 it's heretical or not. Just like in as Abara admitted, 1887 02:04:22.680 --> 02:04:26.000 do you guys, remember you. Barro admits that Honorius is 1888 02:04:26.399 --> 02:04:31.640 excommunicated for a letter that he wrote to somebody about monothelitism. 1889 02:04:33.279 --> 02:04:36.159 Did he make the letter dogmatic? No, a pope's letter 1890 02:04:36.199 --> 02:04:39.199 to one person is not dogmatic, but the letter preaching 1891 02:04:39.439 --> 02:04:43.640 monothelitism was enough to get him ex communicating, condemned. Ibarra 1892 02:04:43.720 --> 02:04:48.479 admits that they're top guy now on the pope. What 1893 02:04:48.520 --> 02:04:51.800 does that demonstrate? It demonstrates the point of making right 1894 02:04:51.840 --> 02:04:54.439 now that the status of the document has nothing to 1895 02:04:54.479 --> 02:04:58.159 do with whether it's heretical or not. So it doesn't matter, 1896 02:04:58.680 --> 02:05:02.920 because this means that the the Vatican is promoting theological 1897 02:05:03.000 --> 02:05:05.520 error on a mass scale to the entire Orthodox world 1898 02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:07.119 and to the rest of the world. That you can 1899 02:05:07.159 --> 02:05:12.000 believe and accept these theological principles now, and they're no 1900 02:05:12.079 --> 02:05:15.600 different really than what stuff was already in Benedict's books. 1901 02:05:16.439 --> 02:05:18.159 So if they're going to say, oh, it's not it's 1902 02:05:18.199 --> 02:05:20.520 not really, it doesn't matter. Even if it's heresy doesn't count. 1903 02:05:20.600 --> 02:05:20.760 Well. 1904 02:05:20.760 --> 02:05:23.079 Benedict wrote the same types of stuff in his books. 1905 02:05:23.079 --> 02:05:27.720 He says that the Orthodox shouldn't be expected to accept 1906 02:05:27.760 --> 02:05:29.319 any more than what was the case in the first 1907 02:05:29.399 --> 02:05:32.520 thousand years of Christianity and the Orthodox have maintained the 1908 02:05:32.560 --> 02:05:35.079 faith without the papers of the last thus year weld. 1909 02:05:35.119 --> 02:05:36.680 I mean, that's all the same types of stuff in 1910 02:05:36.720 --> 02:05:40.920 this So they love to deflect into a topic that 1911 02:05:40.960 --> 02:05:43.680 has nothing to do with whether the document is heretical 1912 02:05:43.760 --> 02:05:49.960 or not, because again, if it's heretical, the pope's dogmatic 1913 02:05:50.159 --> 02:05:53.119 pronouncement of the document has nothing to do with whether 1914 02:05:53.159 --> 02:05:57.920 it's heretical or not. You can be a heretic without 1915 02:05:58.720 --> 02:06:04.960 making it mandatory. Martin Luther had no dogmatic authority behind 1916 02:06:05.000 --> 02:06:08.399 his documents when the Roman Catholic Church excommunicated him as 1917 02:06:08.399 --> 02:06:12.039 a heretic. But Romancalthers are so stupid and so goofy 1918 02:06:12.199 --> 02:06:14.600 when they try to make the system work that they 1919 02:06:14.640 --> 02:06:18.600 will actually end up literally saying that no, it has 1920 02:06:18.680 --> 02:06:22.760 to be dogmatically pronounced for it to be heretical and rejected. 1921 02:06:23.159 --> 02:06:28.520 What I'm not joking like, they'll actually say that you 1922 02:06:28.640 --> 02:06:31.840 only like, it only counts if the pope binds you, 1923 02:06:31.880 --> 02:06:33.479 and then it would be something that we'd have to 1924 02:06:33.479 --> 02:06:35.720 worry with. But I'm not bound by this document. Well 1925 02:06:35.760 --> 02:06:38.720 that's not even true. This is another tried myth that 1926 02:06:38.760 --> 02:06:41.560 you only have to believe what's ex cathedral. That's not true. 1927 02:06:42.079 --> 02:06:44.520 It's just a total myth that they make up. I 1928 02:06:44.560 --> 02:06:46.600 don't even know where they get it. It's like maybe 1929 02:06:46.640 --> 02:06:49.199 some pop apologists says this and they just repeat it 1930 02:06:49.760 --> 02:06:52.520 like a bunch of you know, twitter yapping birds or 1931 02:06:52.560 --> 02:06:54.920 something like. But that's not to mina birds. That's not true, 1932 02:06:55.359 --> 02:06:57.800 like it's been that's actually been condemned four times by 1933 02:06:57.840 --> 02:06:59.960 the Vatican. That you only have to believe the ex cathedra. 1934 02:07:00.520 --> 02:07:21.760 That's just stupid. It's not true. Noah, sincere hypocrypt five dollars. 1935 02:07:21.960 --> 02:07:23.720 One of the copes that I see from Roman Catholics 1936 02:07:23.760 --> 02:07:27.159 is that we've had many bad popes. Have nothing to 1937 02:07:27.199 --> 02:07:31.520 do with whether or not popes are teaching heresy and error, 1938 02:07:31.880 --> 02:07:35.880 so they're always deflecting into morally bad popes. That has 1939 02:07:35.920 --> 02:07:39.399 nothing to do with whether popes are teaching theological error, 1940 02:07:39.800 --> 02:07:45.159 so they're again throwing up confusion and smoke and mirrors 1941 02:07:45.199 --> 02:07:48.640 because the question is not whether there are bad popes 1942 02:07:49.119 --> 02:07:54.319 or does a morally bad pope invalidate the Roman Catholic system. 1943 02:07:54.479 --> 02:07:59.000 It's about theological error, which would mean that the Roman 1944 02:07:59.199 --> 02:08:03.159 see t taches error and thus contradicts Vatican one's claims. 1945 02:08:03.680 --> 02:08:07.520 So no, it's not about popes having you know, prostitutes. 1946 02:08:07.600 --> 02:08:09.960 We all know that, we know Alexander the six had 1947 02:08:10.000 --> 02:08:13.399 a tunnel to the hoe house next door. Nobody's arguing 1948 02:08:13.439 --> 02:08:17.119 that a bad pope is what invalidates the system, because 1949 02:08:17.119 --> 02:08:20.359 there's countless, i'm sure, evil Orthodox bishops in the history 1950 02:08:20.359 --> 02:08:22.079 of the church. So what that's not the argument, it's 1951 02:08:22.079 --> 02:08:25.399 another deflection. The point is that in the Roman Catholic 1952 02:08:25.479 --> 02:08:32.000 system you cannot have popes theologically teaching error on faith 1953 02:08:32.079 --> 02:08:36.359 and morals. That's the point, because that invalidates the system. 1954 02:08:36.479 --> 02:08:39.479 That's why we're pointing out that the status of this 1955 02:08:39.600 --> 02:08:43.000 document has nothing to do with whether the document is 1956 02:08:43.439 --> 02:08:48.000 teaching error and approved by Rome, because it is in 1957 02:08:48.039 --> 02:09:07.279 the Roman system. Warren, what's up, warreng g I'm mute, 1958 02:09:11.960 --> 02:09:12.359 I'm mute. 1959 02:09:12.399 --> 02:09:17.880 Warren, Okay, I just wanted to ask you about why 1960 02:09:18.000 --> 02:09:19.159 government should exist. 1961 02:09:19.840 --> 02:09:24.880 So, the Paternians believe in no government. So how do 1962 02:09:24.960 --> 02:09:29.439 you prove that the government is necessary? 1963 02:09:31.039 --> 02:09:34.119 Well, if you even if you believe in nap and 1964 02:09:34.199 --> 02:09:38.479 everything being privatized, you're still going to get a government. 1965 02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:48.560 Right, So how we define a government? 1966 02:09:49.720 --> 02:09:52.359 Well, I mean, if we're living on an island full 1967 02:09:52.359 --> 02:09:58.000 of libertarians and everybody voluntarily agrees to a private security 1968 02:09:58.159 --> 02:10:04.199 firm running the islands h law enforcement procedures. Is that 1969 02:10:04.239 --> 02:10:04.840 a government? 1970 02:10:07.680 --> 02:10:14.239 So like everybody are so everybody are having your private probably? 1971 02:10:14.359 --> 02:10:17.359 So if so, that's not a government? So everybody to 1972 02:10:17.439 --> 02:10:18.680 have your private what do. 1973 02:10:18.640 --> 02:10:20.520 You mean it's not a government, it's it's a it's 1974 02:10:20.560 --> 02:10:22.920 a group of people who have the ability to use 1975 02:10:22.960 --> 02:10:27.159 force that other people don't have. Is that not a government? 1976 02:10:29.960 --> 02:10:35.319 But there's no, But there's nobody who is governing uh 1977 02:10:35.479 --> 02:10:36.199 that island? 1978 02:10:36.439 --> 02:10:39.359 So there's you hear what I said, Like I literally 1979 02:10:39.399 --> 02:10:42.960 just said, if a private security firm is hired by 1980 02:10:43.000 --> 02:10:48.119 the island to govern the island voluntarily, is that a government? 1981 02:10:48.279 --> 02:10:48.960 Or is it not? 1982 02:10:52.279 --> 02:10:53.439 It could be a government? 1983 02:10:53.960 --> 02:10:56.119 Okay, So so now you're gonna have to tell me, 1984 02:10:56.199 --> 02:10:58.159 like what do you mean why should there be government? 1985 02:10:58.159 --> 02:11:00.560 Because now you've said that council's government and a lot 1986 02:11:00.560 --> 02:11:03.520 of libertarians would accept that as government. So you do 1987 02:11:03.680 --> 02:11:04.720 or don't believe in government? 1988 02:11:06.880 --> 02:11:09.000 Okay? 1989 02:11:10.439 --> 02:11:19.680 Okay, I thought we were going to go further places there, 1990 02:11:19.680 --> 02:11:22.720 but I guess not. So again, you'll notice, like a 1991 02:11:22.760 --> 02:11:28.119 lot of times debates Hinge on ambiguity and terminology, not always, 1992 02:11:28.560 --> 02:11:33.279 but a lot of atheists overuse this, like uh, theists 1993 02:11:33.399 --> 02:11:38.279 that have ambiguity and terminalogy. But sometimes it's true because well, 1994 02:11:38.319 --> 02:11:41.319 what do you mean by a bad pope? What do 1995 02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:44.520 you mean by government? So right, I feel like Jordan 1996 02:11:44.560 --> 02:11:47.079 Peter depends on what to mean, but I mean sometimes 1997 02:11:47.079 --> 02:11:49.640 that's true. Well, what do you mean because if a 1998 02:11:49.680 --> 02:11:53.439 baby is born on an island where all the libertarians 1999 02:11:53.520 --> 02:11:57.960 consented to a private security firm being the government being 2000 02:11:58.000 --> 02:12:04.279 the enforcers on libertarian an island, fantasy island, deplain deplay, right, 2001 02:12:04.640 --> 02:12:10.000 we're gonna have Tattoo designated as the judge, dread jury 2002 02:12:10.039 --> 02:12:14.760 and executioner of the island. And if a baby's born, 2003 02:12:15.920 --> 02:12:19.600 uh oh, has he consented to Tattoo being the governor 2004 02:12:19.640 --> 02:12:23.039 of his island? No? Uh oh? Violation of the nap 2005 02:12:23.479 --> 02:12:27.239 Now that sounds silly, but actually it's not silly because 2006 02:12:27.279 --> 02:12:30.800 the premise behind libertarianism is typically that it has to 2007 02:12:30.840 --> 02:12:34.479 be voluntary, has to be you have to respect the 2008 02:12:34.520 --> 02:12:37.279 non aggression principle. So I guess we have to let 2009 02:12:38.079 --> 02:12:41.920 babies born on the island govern themselves in little baby 2010 02:12:41.960 --> 02:12:45.640 cribs until they get old enough to voluntarily contract to 2011 02:12:45.760 --> 02:12:52.560 have tattoo on fantasy Island be able to kill them. 2012 02:12:52.680 --> 02:12:54.880 Tell me that one the good analogy. I'm actually cracking 2013 02:12:54.960 --> 02:13:01.279 up thinking about this, like Libertarian fantasy Island. But I 2014 02:13:01.319 --> 02:13:05.279 mean that seems to follow right, Like and by the way, 2015 02:13:05.319 --> 02:13:09.159 what if I visit libertarian fantasy Island and I don't 2016 02:13:09.159 --> 02:13:17.000 consent to you know, what was that tattoos private security 2017 02:13:17.039 --> 02:13:20.640 firm governing me? Like what do I do now? So? Like, 2018 02:13:21.119 --> 02:13:24.439 am I restricted to some corner of the island that's 2019 02:13:24.479 --> 02:13:28.840 like totally savage with no laws. Like the real libertarian 2020 02:13:28.920 --> 02:13:31.560 section of Libertarian Island. Fantasy Island is that where I 2021 02:13:31.600 --> 02:13:36.680 go until I voluntarily signed the papers that tattoo can 2022 02:13:36.760 --> 02:13:38.640 rule me. I mean, it just gets absurd. But the 2023 02:13:38.680 --> 02:13:41.279 reason it gets absurd is like you're actually following through 2024 02:13:41.319 --> 02:13:44.840 with the logic of the libertarian position that no one 2025 02:13:44.880 --> 02:13:47.720 should be governed without their consent. Well, guess what, You're 2026 02:13:47.720 --> 02:13:51.399 born into a family and your father governs you without consent, dummy, 2027 02:13:52.119 --> 02:13:54.880 And then literally you'll get these like Milton Friedman libertarian 2028 02:13:54.920 --> 02:13:59.039 types who are like, no, actually you don't babies. Babies 2029 02:13:59.079 --> 02:14:01.880 are their own individuals, and like, you know, or babies 2030 02:14:01.920 --> 02:14:04.840 are parasites on the mother, and the mother can brought 2031 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:07.239 a braation the baby because babies are I mean, this 2032 02:14:07.239 --> 02:14:10.800 is how stupid the libertarian shit gets. Because libertarians don't 2033 02:14:10.840 --> 02:14:13.520 live in reality. They live in a fantasy world, just 2034 02:14:13.640 --> 02:14:16.319 like the communists do. That's why none of these costco 2035 02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:19.880 liberal idiots will actually debate me. By the way, mark, 2036 02:14:20.000 --> 02:14:26.840 what's up? The QR code is for bitcoin. I am 2037 02:14:26.880 --> 02:14:29.920 a huge bitcoin supporter. I believe in bitcoin, but I 2038 02:14:29.920 --> 02:14:34.079 don't believe in bitcoin because libertarians and Austrian economists invented it. 2039 02:14:34.560 --> 02:14:37.640 I can disagree with the philosophy even though I think 2040 02:14:38.039 --> 02:14:41.720 bitcoin is the monetary answering solution. That doesn't mean that 2041 02:14:41.880 --> 02:14:45.840 every aspect of a libertarian classical liberal worldview is true. 2042 02:14:46.079 --> 02:14:49.720 What's up? Man? He dropped off, so I guess he 2043 02:14:50.439 --> 02:14:52.279 said he didn't want any of this. What's up? 2044 02:14:52.399 --> 02:14:52.800 Escape? 2045 02:14:54.079 --> 02:14:56.399 We're going to fantasy island, y'all? What's up? Where's all 2046 02:14:56.439 --> 02:15:01.279 the libertarians that to defend the private security contractor tattoo 2047 02:15:01.359 --> 02:15:10.239 inc tattoo justice, the plane, the plane, the gun, the gun? 2048 02:15:11.600 --> 02:15:11.800 Right? 2049 02:15:14.199 --> 02:15:16.520 We all on libertarian fantasy island? Where you all at? 2050 02:15:18.680 --> 02:15:20.840 I think that's sort of starting to come up and say, 2051 02:15:21.000 --> 02:15:25.119 I feel like the monopoly on violence isn't the governance. 2052 02:15:25.159 --> 02:15:28.319 The governance is the collective people agreeing to the rules. 2053 02:15:29.840 --> 02:15:32.840 It feels like in that what the situation you slaid 2054 02:15:32.880 --> 02:15:36.239 for and you try to assign governance to the security force. 2055 02:15:36.359 --> 02:15:38.760 But it'd be the people that agreed to the rules, 2056 02:15:39.079 --> 02:15:39.479 wouldn't it. 2057 02:15:43.079 --> 02:15:45.199 How are the people who agreed to the rules the 2058 02:15:45.239 --> 02:15:47.680 governing force when they're not the ones worth the use 2059 02:15:47.720 --> 02:15:48.119 of force. 2060 02:15:53.359 --> 02:15:55.159 That's the idea of what you're saying. 2061 02:15:55.159 --> 02:15:59.359 If four libertarians lived on an island that live there 2062 02:15:59.479 --> 02:16:01.760 agreeing to a set of rules, and then the private 2063 02:16:01.800 --> 02:16:06.600 security would obviously enforce if somebody felt hard done by 2064 02:16:06.720 --> 02:16:08.359 or felt like their property had been. 2065 02:16:10.039 --> 02:16:11.000 Taken unfairly. 2066 02:16:11.840 --> 02:16:14.560 Yeah, so there's a governing body of a security private 2067 02:16:14.560 --> 02:16:24.239 security farm enforcing the laws or no, the laws. 2068 02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:27.079 Themselves being constructed. That's the governance, isn't it. It's not 2069 02:16:27.119 --> 02:16:28.720 about the enforcement of the laws that. 2070 02:16:28.680 --> 02:16:30.600 Actually So this is why you guys are like, I'm 2071 02:16:30.600 --> 02:16:32.120 not trying to be mean to you, but you guys 2072 02:16:32.200 --> 02:16:36.319 live in a fantasy world. Laws don't enforce themselves. It's 2073 02:16:36.360 --> 02:16:40.520 the power structure that enforces the laws. The actual humans. 2074 02:16:40.920 --> 02:16:45.399 There's no abstract laws enforcing themselves to punish people who 2075 02:16:45.440 --> 02:16:50.920 are stealing your potatoes from your farm. 2076 02:16:51.000 --> 02:16:53.040 Yeah, that's probably what I'm trying to get to it. 2077 02:16:53.120 --> 02:16:55.319 Just the fact that there's a security force doesn't mean 2078 02:16:55.319 --> 02:16:57.200 that they are the only people that are able to 2079 02:16:57.319 --> 02:17:00.200 enforce the rules. The social collective can come together and 2080 02:17:00.239 --> 02:17:04.479 say that person was wrongly treated, and then they're able 2081 02:17:04.520 --> 02:17:06.319 to then enforce the monopoly of violence. 2082 02:17:06.360 --> 02:17:06.719 Also. 2083 02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:10.399 Yeah, but it doesn't matter because the whole point of 2084 02:17:10.440 --> 02:17:13.399 the analogy was about the fact that where I was 2085 02:17:13.440 --> 02:17:16.399 going with it was if visitors or children are born, 2086 02:17:17.040 --> 02:17:21.479 they're not voluntarily accepting the laws, right, So you can't 2087 02:17:21.639 --> 02:17:28.000 literally make authority or duty based around voluntary acceptance. It 2088 02:17:28.079 --> 02:17:31.879 leads to absurdities like Milton Freeman's idea that like babies 2089 02:17:31.879 --> 02:17:33.000 are parasites on women. 2090 02:17:36.360 --> 02:17:37.479 Yeah, think in that sense. 2091 02:17:37.520 --> 02:17:40.319 Obviously, a child comes under the like you said, the 2092 02:17:40.399 --> 02:17:43.719 leadership of your parents' house, But when they come of 2093 02:17:43.760 --> 02:17:45.479 an age where they're able to make a decision, they 2094 02:17:45.479 --> 02:17:47.959 could obviously leave the island if they disagreed with that 2095 02:17:48.040 --> 02:17:48.479 rule set. 2096 02:17:48.680 --> 02:17:52.000 Okay, so authority is not based on consent. 2097 02:17:58.000 --> 02:18:00.000 I'm just going to run that through my head, sorry, 2098 02:18:00.200 --> 02:18:01.399 is not based on concern. 2099 02:18:01.639 --> 02:18:03.879 Yeah, so because you just admitted that when they come 2100 02:18:03.920 --> 02:18:05.959 of age they could decide not to be under it. 2101 02:18:07.639 --> 02:18:11.440 Yeah, but it's I think it's also then justice is included, 2102 02:18:11.559 --> 02:18:17.399 like that that authority can enact injustice and break those 2103 02:18:17.520 --> 02:18:19.360 rule sets by the force of its power. 2104 02:18:19.399 --> 02:18:20.920 But that means that it's injus. 2105 02:18:24.600 --> 02:18:27.159 Yeah, but like a father can abuse his authority in 2106 02:18:27.159 --> 02:18:31.520 the household and that's unjust. We don't get rid of 2107 02:18:31.559 --> 02:18:35.559 fathers because there are unjust fathers, that's my point. So likewise, 2108 02:18:36.159 --> 02:18:39.040 it's actually impossible to have a scenario where there are 2109 02:18:39.079 --> 02:18:43.280 no governing powers or individuals with authority to enforce laws, 2110 02:18:43.719 --> 02:18:49.079 and so there's always some level of possibility of abuse 2111 02:18:49.120 --> 02:18:52.479 of authority. But I'm just saying that libertarian has been 2112 02:18:52.520 --> 02:18:56.799 so fraught with fallacious assumptions and metaphysics that they can't 2113 02:18:56.840 --> 02:19:00.079 justify that these are basic examples that really disprove the 2114 02:19:00.159 --> 02:19:05.559 fact that you can't make governance literally hinging on consent. 2115 02:19:08.559 --> 02:19:09.399 Yeah, I agree with that. 2116 02:19:09.440 --> 02:19:12.600 I think I do think that that's the role of 2117 02:19:12.639 --> 02:19:18.680 government obviously is to to write injustice. So if there is, 2118 02:19:19.000 --> 02:19:22.520 but I think that's just lean more towards the fact 2119 02:19:22.559 --> 02:19:25.040 that we've put the government in a too big of 2120 02:19:25.040 --> 02:19:27.479 a position and we've given them so much power of us. 2121 02:19:28.120 --> 02:19:30.280 And well, I agree with that, yeah, but that doesn't 2122 02:19:30.319 --> 02:19:41.200 require me accepting the classical liberal presuppositions to say that, Yeah, cool. 2123 02:19:41.000 --> 02:19:42.680 That's all. I just wanted to jump up because of that. 2124 02:19:42.719 --> 02:19:46.879 I feel like I feel like you were over representation 2125 02:19:47.920 --> 02:19:51.719 the authority of the force. But I think that is 2126 02:19:51.959 --> 02:19:54.840 most of the libertarians I talk to, we will push 2127 02:19:54.920 --> 02:19:58.040 that it's more rules not rulers, like it's the fact 2128 02:19:58.079 --> 02:20:02.399 that there's society these days will put an individual or 2129 02:20:02.680 --> 02:20:06.040 a government and give them so much control over individuals. Then, 2130 02:20:06.159 --> 02:20:09.799 as a Christian, I think that's because a lot of 2131 02:20:09.840 --> 02:20:13.159 society has devoid faith, so they have no accountability to 2132 02:20:13.200 --> 02:20:17.159 a creator, so they'll need something to fill that spot. 2133 02:20:17.239 --> 02:20:20.280 But I think I think I lean more towards I 2134 02:20:20.319 --> 02:20:20.639 think it. 2135 02:20:23.280 --> 02:20:24.319 Might not be a. 2136 02:20:26.799 --> 02:20:28.959 Smoother world if it was a libertarian, but I think 2137 02:20:29.000 --> 02:20:32.120 it'd be the more. 2138 02:20:33.719 --> 02:20:37.440 I don't know, the world that has less Okay, yeah, 2139 02:20:37.479 --> 02:20:40.040 I mean I would actually agree with that. Solution is 2140 02:20:40.159 --> 02:20:47.040 just we have a libertarian island that has a monarch 2141 02:20:47.239 --> 02:20:59.120 for this for the how's that herk. How do I 2142 02:20:59.159 --> 02:21:02.760 call in through the Twitter link? Bro? If you want 2143 02:21:02.760 --> 02:21:05.319 to call in, you just call in on the Twitter 2144 02:21:05.360 --> 02:21:08.879 space right here. That's up. 2145 02:21:10.319 --> 02:21:14.440 Hey, Jay, I'm a libertarian, but I'm left libertarian, So 2146 02:21:14.639 --> 02:21:16.639 I actually agree with a lot of what you were 2147 02:21:16.680 --> 02:21:19.840 just saying to the last two gentlemen. I was going 2148 02:21:19.920 --> 02:21:22.920 to say to the first gentleman that there's a book 2149 02:21:22.959 --> 02:21:27.159 called The Machinery of Freedmen of Freedom by David Friedman 2150 02:21:27.639 --> 02:21:31.680 that explains the private court systems, and it makes it 2151 02:21:31.760 --> 02:21:33.040 sound somewhat. 2152 02:21:32.600 --> 02:21:35.319 Plausible but highly unlikely. 2153 02:21:35.200 --> 02:21:38.520 Given the state of humanity right now. So we're looking 2154 02:21:38.520 --> 02:21:42.319 at hundreds, if not thousands of years of development before 2155 02:21:42.360 --> 02:21:44.840 we get to this Star Trek fantasy land where we 2156 02:21:44.879 --> 02:21:51.239 don't keep centralized planning and local governments can control everything. 2157 02:21:51.959 --> 02:21:56.360 Yeah. I just saw a video what is the name 2158 02:21:56.360 --> 02:22:00.840 of that? There's a community that is being it's kind 2159 02:22:00.840 --> 02:22:03.680 of already kind of up and running in Nicaragua. I 2160 02:22:03.680 --> 02:22:05.280 forget where it is. So there's some place where there's 2161 02:22:05.280 --> 02:22:08.440 like a full on bitcoin community and there's not a 2162 02:22:08.479 --> 02:22:10.559 whole lot of people living there that there's like five 2163 02:22:10.600 --> 02:22:12.360 people there ten. I don't know what it is, but 2164 02:22:12.719 --> 02:22:17.920 so somebody's trying to create something like this with a 2165 02:22:18.000 --> 02:22:24.479 community that's libertarian run that is totally on the basis 2166 02:22:24.559 --> 02:22:28.360 of bitcoin, and you have to basically voluntarily assent to everything. 2167 02:22:28.520 --> 02:22:32.280 Let me find that video. It's an interesting idea. But 2168 02:22:32.760 --> 02:22:36.239 the thing is is like, already they are very selective 2169 02:22:36.280 --> 02:22:40.079 about who comes, so it's not I mean, obviously like 2170 02:22:40.120 --> 02:22:41.479 to go there, you gotta have a lot of money. 2171 02:22:41.600 --> 02:22:45.040 So it's and I'm not even saying that that's necessarily wrong. 2172 02:22:45.159 --> 02:22:47.000 I don't think there's anything wrong with being wealthy or 2173 02:22:47.000 --> 02:22:49.479 moving to an island or anything like that. But it's like, 2174 02:22:50.000 --> 02:22:52.840 so libertarian and free and all this kind of stuff 2175 02:22:52.879 --> 02:22:57.440 is in reality restricted to like bitcoin zillionaires and people 2176 02:22:57.479 --> 02:23:05.440 that pass this private company's background check or whatever they do. 2177 02:23:06.959 --> 02:23:09.760 Let me find it so I know, l Salvador. You know, 2178 02:23:09.959 --> 02:23:13.520 you could say it's not Bitcoin City. It might be 2179 02:23:13.600 --> 02:23:17.399 this one. I'm not talking about El Salvador. I understand 2180 02:23:17.399 --> 02:23:19.920 there's potentiality for all of this. I do think there's 2181 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:26.120 a lot of potential for places to become healthy, functioning societies. 2182 02:23:26.479 --> 02:23:31.399 They will have some elements of libertarian principles. I do 2183 02:23:31.520 --> 02:23:34.159 agree with that. Where is this thing? I just watched 2184 02:23:34.159 --> 02:23:36.159 this the other day. 2185 02:23:36.840 --> 02:23:38.280 I would stressed that it has to be done in 2186 02:23:38.360 --> 02:23:45.479 steps so gradually. Most people in America are reliant on 2187 02:23:45.600 --> 02:23:50.600 government programs and would be totally petrified if there were 2188 02:23:50.600 --> 02:23:53.040 any alterations alone cutting them whole scale. 2189 02:23:55.719 --> 02:23:58.600 Yeah, I think those are fair objections and arguments. I 2190 02:23:58.639 --> 02:24:00.680 would agree with that that if there is going to 2191 02:24:00.760 --> 02:24:02.479 be something like this is probably a long time down 2192 02:24:02.520 --> 02:24:05.840 the road, or it's going to be restricted to like, 2193 02:24:06.600 --> 02:24:10.799 you know, zillionaires. I can't find what I'm looking for. 2194 02:24:10.879 --> 02:24:14.040 Maybe it's I don't know, it was just some weird 2195 02:24:14.120 --> 02:24:17.559 video of like, but the point was just that it's 2196 02:24:17.600 --> 02:24:20.360 going to be very selective, I guess initially, And I'm 2197 02:24:20.360 --> 02:24:21.600 not even I don't even have a problem with that, 2198 02:24:21.600 --> 02:24:23.840 Like I don't think there's anything wrong with elitism per se. 2199 02:24:24.000 --> 02:24:27.559 But like he's saying that if this was really going 2200 02:24:27.600 --> 02:24:30.600 to spill out into like the rest of the world, yeah, 2201 02:24:30.600 --> 02:24:34.399 we're talking like centuries centuries for this to affect like 2202 02:24:34.479 --> 02:24:38.120 all societies. I do think in the near future, the 2203 02:24:38.200 --> 02:24:43.399 like the next say, fifty years, as even Jacques Attealie 2204 02:24:43.440 --> 02:24:47.719 admits in his book The Cities That Adopt the in 2205 02:24:47.760 --> 02:24:52.719 the areas that adopt the forward thinking technologies are the 2206 02:24:52.719 --> 02:24:56.399 ones that become the megacity economic centers of the future. 2207 02:24:57.440 --> 02:25:02.120 So the places right now where you have massive bitcoin 2208 02:25:02.159 --> 02:25:07.600 mining and acceptance places, maybe in Texas, I'll Salvador Bitcoin 2209 02:25:07.719 --> 02:25:10.680 City Island. Whatever I'm looking for, Like these things I 2210 02:25:10.719 --> 02:25:16.479 think will probably end up being mega centers in the future. Anyway, 2211 02:25:18.840 --> 02:25:27.200 what's up, Alex? But I mean for now, it's like 2212 02:25:27.280 --> 02:25:30.399 Golf's gulch, like whatever I was looking at. If I 2213 02:25:30.399 --> 02:25:37.799 can find that, oh I know how to find it, 2214 02:25:37.840 --> 02:25:42.760 I know where it is. What's up? Man? Got un mute? Dude, Yo? 2215 02:25:42.879 --> 02:25:43.479 What's up? Due? 2216 02:25:47.399 --> 02:25:48.000 I want to know. 2217 02:25:48.040 --> 02:25:49.680 I'm a Catholic, but I want to know. 2218 02:25:49.719 --> 02:25:52.360 I was talking to this other Orthodox, So I'm curious 2219 02:25:52.440 --> 02:25:58.399 your view on exorcism. Like you guys as Orthodox, think 2220 02:25:58.479 --> 02:26:02.760 that as Catholic believe in like different Jesus than you guys. 2221 02:26:04.520 --> 02:26:07.319 Not necessarily. I mean, I think that you're naming and 2222 02:26:07.360 --> 02:26:11.280 intending the same correct Jesus. But how does that relate 2223 02:26:11.319 --> 02:26:14.920 to exorcism Because I could say that exorcisms can happen 2224 02:26:15.120 --> 02:26:17.319 like in Mark seven outside the church, but that doesn't 2225 02:26:17.319 --> 02:26:19.600 approve anything either way. 2226 02:26:21.000 --> 02:26:22.920 Right, That's what I was curious like if so if 2227 02:26:22.920 --> 02:26:28.159 a Catholic exorcism, like they're actually casting demons. So if 2228 02:26:28.159 --> 02:26:31.680 we were using like a false Jesus name, how would 2229 02:26:31.719 --> 02:26:34.600 that work? Or you're saying it's just based on intent, Well, 2230 02:26:34.639 --> 02:26:35.159 I think there. 2231 02:26:35.120 --> 02:26:38.280 Is objective power in that name, and I do think 2232 02:26:38.280 --> 02:26:43.680 that Catholics intend to reference the correct Jesus. But I 2233 02:26:43.719 --> 02:26:46.719 think that and that's why we don't make like judgments 2234 02:26:46.719 --> 02:26:51.360 of individual Roman Catholics. What we judge, or what we say, 2235 02:26:51.600 --> 02:26:56.239 is that the public structure of the Roman Catholic Church 2236 02:26:56.280 --> 02:27:01.479 as an institution is heterodox. It's false, it doesn't give 2237 02:27:01.520 --> 02:27:04.360 all the stuff it promises. But that doesn't mean that 2238 02:27:04.399 --> 02:27:06.719 I'm judging every single individual Roman Catholic because I don't 2239 02:27:06.760 --> 02:27:08.959 know their heart, owner their situation. And now God can 2240 02:27:09.120 --> 02:27:12.559 do a miracle. Do you do a miracle anywhere anyway wants? 2241 02:27:13.719 --> 02:27:16.079 But that's the thing about like the miracle stuff is 2242 02:27:17.120 --> 02:27:20.639 signs and wonders don't prove necessarily which one is the 2243 02:27:20.680 --> 02:27:23.799 true or the false faith. Because Johnnys and John Brace, 2244 02:27:24.600 --> 02:27:28.000 if you read you, they mimic the first two miracles 2245 02:27:28.000 --> 02:27:33.440 of Moses. So does that prove Egyptian theology? No, The 2246 02:27:33.559 --> 02:27:37.200 Coptics points out that Mary supposedly appeared in z I 2247 02:27:37.280 --> 02:27:42.079 Tune Egypt two thousands of Coptics. Does that prove Coptic Christianity. No, 2248 02:27:42.239 --> 02:27:45.200 So you can't base the faith on the signs of 2249 02:27:45.239 --> 02:27:47.879 wonders even though the true faith has signs of wonders. 2250 02:27:47.920 --> 02:27:48.600 Does that make sense? 2251 02:27:50.000 --> 02:27:52.760 Yeah, that makes sense. Also, if I can ask another one, 2252 02:27:52.799 --> 02:27:56.360 what do you make of Like I hear the term 2253 02:27:56.399 --> 02:27:59.959 pre list a lot, do you what do you make 2254 02:28:00.079 --> 02:28:04.399 of Catholic saints like, for example, Mary Faustina. Is she 2255 02:28:05.680 --> 02:28:08.399 hallucinating or are these legitimate encounters? 2256 02:28:08.520 --> 02:28:08.639 Oh? 2257 02:28:08.719 --> 02:28:09.159 I think that. 2258 02:28:09.360 --> 02:28:11.520 I think those are like the best examples of pre 2259 02:28:11.639 --> 02:28:16.200 list in fact, and even even many Roman Catholics admit 2260 02:28:16.319 --> 02:28:19.879 this is one of the strongest arguments against their position 2261 02:28:20.239 --> 02:28:26.280 is cases like Margaret Mary Ala Coquay, who's clearly engaging 2262 02:28:26.360 --> 02:28:30.920 in self harm and has really kind of wild, outrageous claims. 2263 02:28:32.200 --> 02:28:34.280 I made a video that's only about eight minutes. I'm 2264 02:28:34.280 --> 02:28:37.680 going to pull it up on this topic because I 2265 02:28:37.680 --> 02:28:41.079 think this is actually one of the stronger points that 2266 02:28:41.120 --> 02:28:43.680 refutes Rome. It's right here. It's called Roman Catholic Historyonic 2267 02:28:43.719 --> 02:28:47.239 women's saints refute papalism because if you read that. If 2268 02:28:47.239 --> 02:28:50.479 you watch this video, you'll see that, like, you can't 2269 02:28:50.959 --> 02:28:54.600 question her sanctity in her claims because she's said to 2270 02:28:54.639 --> 02:28:56.479 be a saint. So if she's not a saint, then 2271 02:28:56.520 --> 02:28:59.920 her like first of all, that would deny ordinary magistar, 2272 02:29:00.239 --> 02:29:03.280 because you're denying who the Pope says and confirms as 2273 02:29:03.280 --> 02:29:08.079 a saint. Secondly, she's like cutting Jesus's name into her chest, 2274 02:29:08.760 --> 02:29:11.159 I mean like self harm, like literally like what the 2275 02:29:11.200 --> 02:29:15.000 prophets of a bail are doing that Elijah's like rebuking, 2276 02:29:15.479 --> 02:29:18.600 So how is this like saintly when she's doing it 2277 02:29:19.280 --> 02:29:21.879 and she says, oh, well, but Jesus says that, you know, 2278 02:29:21.959 --> 02:29:25.760 he's my boyfriend, just like Felsina Kowalska does. So I 2279 02:29:25.799 --> 02:29:28.639 actually think these are some of the strongest overlooked arguments 2280 02:29:28.639 --> 02:29:32.120 against Rome because clearly this woman is disturbed and she 2281 02:29:32.159 --> 02:29:36.959 has problems, and it's there's at least two papal encyclicals 2282 02:29:36.959 --> 02:29:39.559 that confirm her saint hoods, so you can't reject it. 2283 02:29:42.479 --> 02:29:44.959 Okay, I'll have to look more into that. One last 2284 02:29:45.000 --> 02:29:46.159 question if I can ask you. 2285 02:29:48.000 --> 02:29:50.280 Okay, and don't again, I'm not trying to be too 2286 02:29:50.319 --> 02:29:50.600 I just. 2287 02:29:50.520 --> 02:29:51.559 Want the real answer here. 2288 02:29:51.799 --> 02:29:54.920 So I'm just like back in the day the undivided Church, right, 2289 02:29:56.600 --> 02:30:00.200 would we consider like because nowadays, if Orthodox is the 2290 02:30:00.239 --> 02:30:03.200 only true church and there's about I think last time 2291 02:30:03.239 --> 02:30:06.280 I looked, take three hundred and fifty million members or something, 2292 02:30:07.319 --> 02:30:11.120 and then the rest majority of Christians in the world 2293 02:30:11.159 --> 02:30:16.000 are heretics. Does this mean the original church failed or 2294 02:30:16.000 --> 02:30:17.159 how do you look at it? 2295 02:30:17.200 --> 02:30:17.280 Like? 2296 02:30:18.479 --> 02:30:22.000 Well, I would just reply that nobody, whether you or 2297 02:30:22.079 --> 02:30:25.799 me or any of us, actually believes that the true 2298 02:30:25.879 --> 02:30:28.440 Church is proven on the basis of the numbers. So, 2299 02:30:30.120 --> 02:30:32.760 for example, in the fourth century the Aryan Crisis, even 2300 02:30:32.879 --> 02:30:37.319 Roman Catholics believe that most of the Church had fallen 2301 02:30:37.360 --> 02:30:40.600 into the semi arian position and only at one point 2302 02:30:40.639 --> 02:30:42.760 it was Athanacious and like a handful of bishops were 2303 02:30:42.760 --> 02:30:45.959 the only ones left. So even you guys, you and 2304 02:30:46.040 --> 02:30:49.360 Roman Catholics have to admit that you can't make it 2305 02:30:49.440 --> 02:30:54.920 dependent on numbers. So say Maximus, for example, when he 2306 02:30:55.000 --> 02:30:57.760 was going through his travails with the Monothelites and the 2307 02:30:57.799 --> 02:31:00.959 mone Energists, he at one point said, as if the 2308 02:31:01.000 --> 02:31:04.040 true number of Catholics was reduced to a small band, 2309 02:31:04.120 --> 02:31:07.719 I would be amongst them, right, So that shows us 2310 02:31:07.760 --> 02:31:12.079 that whatever century, especially in centuries of a lot of 2311 02:31:12.159 --> 02:31:15.680 persecution or heresy, that that creeps in and destroys the 2312 02:31:15.760 --> 02:31:18.479 church in areas can't destroy the whole church, but it 2313 02:31:18.479 --> 02:31:22.239 can destroy nations. You know, Jesus says to the Seven Churches, 2314 02:31:23.239 --> 02:31:26.520 entire churches can have their lampstand ripped away. So you 2315 02:31:26.559 --> 02:31:30.239 can have entire nations even that lose the faith. Apostolizing 2316 02:31:30.239 --> 02:31:32.760 the fact I was just reading about. I didn't know this. 2317 02:31:32.840 --> 02:31:38.559 There were Byzantine cathedrals in Jordan, well what's now called Jordan, 2318 02:31:39.319 --> 02:31:47.440 that the Hashami king had demolished, and this actually pissed 2319 02:31:47.479 --> 02:31:51.200 off some of the British imperial spies, who you know, 2320 02:31:51.360 --> 02:31:54.319 were not they weren't Orthodox, but they weren't they weren't 2321 02:31:54.319 --> 02:31:57.000 anti Christian at least, so they actually got mad when 2322 02:31:57.000 --> 02:32:00.559 the king of Jordan demolished some of the business cathedrals. 2323 02:32:00.559 --> 02:32:03.280 So there was there was like Orthodox cathedrals and business 2324 02:32:03.280 --> 02:32:06.479 to cathedrals even in Jordan in places like you know, 2325 02:32:07.120 --> 02:32:10.760 like close to Saudi areas, that Christianity had gotten that far. 2326 02:32:11.200 --> 02:32:13.879 But there's no Christians in those regions now. So you 2327 02:32:13.879 --> 02:32:18.200 can have entire countries, nations, regions lose the faith, and 2328 02:32:18.239 --> 02:32:21.159 that's why again I would say, you know, Paul warns 2329 02:32:21.200 --> 02:32:25.040 the church at Rome that they can they can be 2330 02:32:25.079 --> 02:32:25.719 grafted out. 2331 02:32:28.600 --> 02:32:31.719 Okay, yeah, I guess I kind of understand that. Just 2332 02:32:32.200 --> 02:32:35.399 to me, I don't know, that seems a little wild 2333 02:32:35.479 --> 02:32:38.799 that we like, I feel like it kind of in 2334 02:32:38.840 --> 02:32:41.120 a way, I know what you're saying, like the numbers 2335 02:32:41.120 --> 02:32:44.399 don't matter, but in a way it did, like kind 2336 02:32:44.399 --> 02:32:44.799 of fail. 2337 02:32:44.879 --> 02:32:46.719 It made more heretics than true. 2338 02:32:46.799 --> 02:32:50.920 Now, well, it's not the church making heretics. Heretics are 2339 02:32:52.040 --> 02:32:54.479 people who choose, by their own will and decision to 2340 02:32:54.520 --> 02:32:58.479 become heretics. So the Church isn't making heretics. 2341 02:33:00.079 --> 02:33:01.760 Okay, I guess I see that. 2342 02:33:02.040 --> 02:33:05.000 But I mean, it's never been a numbers game. I mean, 2343 02:33:05.319 --> 02:33:07.559 in the Old Testament, it was not a numbers game. 2344 02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:10.239 You know, even if it's reduced to a remnant, it's 2345 02:33:10.280 --> 02:33:12.879 not a numbers game. I mean again, you guys, as 2346 02:33:12.879 --> 02:33:14.840 a Roman Catholic, you don't believe it was a numbers 2347 02:33:14.879 --> 02:33:20.159 game in the fourth century. 2348 02:33:20.319 --> 02:33:21.959 Okay, yeah, that makes sense. 2349 02:33:22.760 --> 02:33:25.719 All right, Give me something to look into on the 2350 02:33:25.760 --> 02:33:27.440 spirit proceeding. 2351 02:33:26.920 --> 02:33:27.600 Not from the sun. 2352 02:33:27.680 --> 02:33:29.760 What would you recommend I look into if I want 2353 02:33:29.760 --> 02:33:31.360 to be honest with myself. 2354 02:33:32.280 --> 02:33:36.120 You could read the Edward Skshensky book The History of 2355 02:33:36.120 --> 02:33:39.920 the Philly Oaquay. Book is a good introduction to that topic. 2356 02:33:41.120 --> 02:33:43.120 If you want to get deeper into the specific so 2357 02:33:43.239 --> 02:33:45.680 that theology, I would say from the Orthodoxy, I would 2358 02:33:45.680 --> 02:33:50.239 say you got to read Mistagogy by Saint Photius or 2359 02:33:50.840 --> 02:33:51.799 Apidictic Treatise