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Speaker 1: The human guinea pig stuff in Africa.

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Speaker 2: It's so insane.

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Speaker 3: It's so insane, so insane.

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Speaker 2: It is so insane.

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Speaker 4: Fuck up, fuck of Boo, Fuco, fuck of bo.

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Speaker 5: I got married. I got married to a funk Oh.

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Speaker 6: We got wedded, come joint in the subway, he shot, Oh, well.

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Speaker 5: I am married. I'm married to.

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Speaker 2: My funk o.

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Speaker 5: But do we get joined? Go white as soon as

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subway he shot?

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Speaker 7: Four specimens and biscuits and minerals they come to even

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to my whole life is spit go.

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Speaker 5: To m mother, rather offer I'm married to I don't hooper.

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Speaker 6: We got wedded, but we got joining in the subway,

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shut over the road.

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Speaker 7: Visiting and minerals they come to you visit it and

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minerals they come from it too.

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Speaker 2: Don't talk about for.

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Speaker 5: Buck.

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Speaker 6: I got married, I got married to my don't go hooper.

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Oh we got wedded. Ah we get joy says shocking.

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Speaker 8: First sight, first sight? What should I do with the

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first sight? Put it in my head, throw it on

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the ground, and who knows? Just what will I do?

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Speaker 9: Sweet?

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Speaker 5: How you joined me as some way?

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Speaker 2: Shut love.

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Speaker 1: The human guinea pig stuff in Africa, It's so insane.

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The human guinea pig stuff in Africa.

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Speaker 8: Oh yeah, welcome to a nice cozy evening with me.

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Speaker 10: You're not gonna get me being weird. You're not gonna

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get me being spurgy and energetic. You're gonna get me

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being very calm and very loving with you.

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Speaker 8: I'm not gonna be debating. I'm gonna be calm, and

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I'm gonna be soothing. I'm gonna soothe you. So instead

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of debating, we're just gonna listen to me say the

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word sooth. So is that the kind of asthma that

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you like? Do you all like the asthma? Welcome everyone

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to evening debate time. That was all not true. Everything

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I said was complete lies, disinformation, and deception, straight from

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the source. It's an evening debate. Everyone was so used

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to my afternoon debates that I thought I'd throw a

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curve ball at your face. Now you don't know what

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to do. Now you're over there shaking, shaking in your crib,

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shaking in your adult diapers because you're a gamer, and

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you don't need to get up to go to the

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bathroom because you're gaming, pooping yourself like a Matt Delon monkey.

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Evolutionary being, achieving ascendency, achieving initiation into the mystery of

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the maya maya being the illusion, the illusion that you're

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all encapsulated in the matrix. AKA. Today we're going to

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break the matrix by breaking your mind, by breaking your psyche,

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but breaking your soul, because we're going to open up

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to debate. There's nothing more contrary to the ethos of

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our era, of our society, of our times than this old, forgotten,

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dusty ass art of debate, which nobody believes is an

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art anymore. And that's why even though I debate all

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these people, nobody really cares that you would debate. The

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debate is not seen as anything debates. What is that

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People think debate is arguing No, no, no, it's proving your

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case through abstract mental chess games. That's what I like

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to think of it as it's thought chess. I saw

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videos of people playing chess, and I thought, that's what

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debates are. Debates are mind chess, mind chess. Now we're

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pretty fair, I would say. Over here on my channel,

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we've been opening it up to debate for many years now,

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almost two three times every week, and it's a lot

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of fun. Sometimes I get tired of it gets old

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because it's usually the same old stuff, you know. It's

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sort of like everybody's just rehashing crap that they just

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heard for the first time, and they don't even realize

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that what you just heard has already been addressed like

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five hundred times and you just didn't know. So but

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that's the nature of the game. That's where we're at this.

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Speaker 11: But video popped up.

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Speaker 8: And I'm like, what is this? And so this random

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I don't know. He looks like a worship leader. He

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looks like he would be I don't know the he's

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the stuntman for Scott stat Can you treat me higher?

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Speaker 5: Cool a parish?

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Speaker 8: We're blind man and shee. But he is a convert.

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His name is Keith, not Keith Urban and not Keith Chief,

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Keith Nestor. No idea who this person is. He's already

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got merch. He's the next level three thousand, six hundred convert.

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He's part of the Rosary Crew, the Rosary Crew talk

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about cringe. Dude, let's go ahead and give this a

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thumbs down right here. And he's gonna tell us what

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convinced him Catholicism. How there's all these killer arguments. We're

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gonna make this quick as this kind of our introduction.

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Of course, it's not restricted to Catholic stuff today. We're

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gonna be talking about any topics you want to bring

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to the table, Baby, you want to bring into the spotlight.

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And of course Apple update made my volume all.

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Speaker 11: The way low.

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Speaker 8: I'm sorry for y'all, but you just had to turn

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up me singing. So we got Scott Stapp over here,

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converted and he's gonna tell us his reasons. And it's

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just a little frustrating, honestly, because you know, I look

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at this channel and this is a pretty recent video

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a few months ago, what two hundred something two quarter

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of a million views on this low tier stuff. Come

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over here, and we got Bobby's perspective mega grifter from

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two three years ago. He's still going strong. Look at

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the Look at the kind of garbage Bobby has on

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his channel. First of all, we've got this nonsense about

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sam Shamun is caught lying because Sam she Mun says

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Allah is Satan, but the word can also refer to God,

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as in God of the Bible, and Bobby thinks this

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is like a massive own. This has one hundred and

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sixty six thousand views. We come over here, what is

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Bobby uploading Islam and ayahuasca? You can't make this stuff up.

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I mean, we are literally dealing with just armies of

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dummies that are everywhere. And I don't know what to

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do here because people are getting so dumb that, let's say,

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for the sake of argument, I refute fifty dummies in

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a five hour livestream. People are so dumb they can't

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even see and know the dummies got refuted. People are

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so dumb they can't recognize bad arguments, are people losing debates?

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And also they don't even care. For example, many things

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have happened over the years that you would have thought

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would end a person's career, like you would think that

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Taylor Marshall is saying that Mary appeared to him in

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a vision and he saw giant breast milkers and that

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was some object less envisioned. No, no, no, His channel

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grew tremendously. So it's almost like the dumber you are,

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the stupider your stuff is, the more hard headed you are,

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the more you're actually exposed and refuted, the better you

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are off. I mean, Hawk Tua is now she's probably

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gonna do better now that she had a giant rug

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poke coin. Everything is in working opposite in this we're

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in upside down world. We somehow went through the stranger things,

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but whole dimension to the other side, and everything isn't verse,

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everything's reverse. So the stupider you are, the more ridiculous

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you are, the more you get refuted, the more people

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will listen to you. What And also, of course I

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suspect I can't prove it, but I think these kinds

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of things are given boosts, right, boosting the algo. So

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when he was a vegan pseudo Orthodox channel, he had

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like fifty thousand subscribers. And then when he started to

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tell you not believe in the Trinity anymore, I did

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not even know that Orthodox who he was the teaching

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of the Trinity. So he's supposedly a cradle Orthodox and

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he didn't know that it taught the Trinity. Uh So

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then he realized if he grifts with a bunch of

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Islam videos, he would appeal to this rising, giant horde

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of idiots that believe Islam and believe the low tier

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stuff that they push. And you know, unfortunately it's not

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much better for the Catholic side of things. I mean,

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I would say that the Catholic YouTubers are at least

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more intelligent on the average, But the quality of the argumentation,

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oh my gosh, like it's just so it's so low tire,

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and I'm just at an impasse. I don't know what

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to do. How do you combat super dumb arguments that

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convince hordes of people to believe dumb stuff? Like what's

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the solution here? I'm not sure how to People are saying,

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debate me. This is for you, dummy, this is why

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you can hop on tonight. You're telling me to debate you.

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These streams are for you to come debate me right here,

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here's the link, call in right there. What's the solution?

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We have a really smart audience? Does a collective audience

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have a solution here? How do you combat millions of idiots?

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I don't know, because you can't make them smart. And

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it's almost like it doesn't matter how many times you've

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been correct, how many times people have been demonstrated to

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be just complete bozos, complete goobers like that, it just

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marches on. So, like, what is the secret to helping

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many people understand? Is it simpler? Videos. Are we too cerebral?

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I know it's I understand prayer, So thank you all.

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You have very pious people. I'm speaking at the level

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of compacting and packaging information. Is that what it is?

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Because I mean, is this guy winning over here with

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his numbers on his video because he did too many rosaries?

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Like is that what you're saying? Like he prayed a

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lot more than I'm joking, But more people have to

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speak up. Well, it's good that we're getting more clergy

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and priests doing this kind of stuff then used to

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you know, in twenty seventeen eighteen, there was hardly any

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and now we got a lot more clergy trying to

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do this stuff, which is good. Hey, Jamie, could you

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make me an expresso? Thank you? Signs of the times

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could be somebody said, just talk from your toilet probably

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would get way more subscribers.

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Speaker 11: Like toilet bowl pologetics.

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Speaker 8: Right, I'm serious, Like you would probably get like your

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channel would blow up doing a poop apologetics on the toilet, right,

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like one minute TikTok videos. Anyway, I don't know, maybe

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there's not a solution. Maybe it's like we're just doomed

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with dummies or something. Like dummy doom, dummy doom. Anyway,

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So again, so people in the chat, we're gonna do it.

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It's a cozy evening debate stream because I was in

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the mood. I just saw so much stupid stuff on

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Twitter today and then these these videos popping up in

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my feed and I'm like what. And there's a bunch

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more too. I noticed a bunch of other dumb videos

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popping up. It's just today we want to combat the idiocy,

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the idiocracy, combating idiocracy today. We already got five people

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in the queue here. Let's hear a couple arguments here

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from Scott's Stapp as to why he converted.

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Speaker 12: Is Catholicism based on circular reasoning?

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Speaker 13: What is circular reasoning?

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Speaker 8: Sometimes I get this, well, this is INtime because this

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is a thing I said in a video many years

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ago one of my early critiques of Rome, I talked

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about the papacy being circular. Let's see if that's where

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freaking I can't say he is Billy Ray Stap.

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Speaker 12: Scott cyrus over her injection to some of my videos

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where people say things like, well, you're just saying the

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Catholic Church is true because the Catholic Church says it's true.

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Speaker 13: Is that a circular argument.

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Speaker 12: Yes, Circular reasoning is a logical fallacy in which the

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reasoner begins with what they're trying to end with. And

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circular reasoning is an argument where the premises are just

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as much in need of the proof or evidence as

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the conclusion. Is this what Catholicism teaches? Are we exposed here?

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I think we need to look at this. A circular

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argument when it comes to Catholicism would look something like this.

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Speaker 8: I'm already starting to WinCE and cringe because I already

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feel like this is gonna be way more low tier

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than I expected. I was a little impressed that he

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started off with dealing with a fallacy, but I'm afraid

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it's gonna go downhill. Let's see, catholic.

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Speaker 12: Church is true because the truth is Catholicism. That would

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be a circular argument. The conclusion is dependent on the premise.

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Is this what Cathosis does? Are the arguments for Catholicism

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just simply based on Catholicism is true because what it

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says about itself. I say, no way.

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Speaker 8: Is he sitting there with like his drum? Is that

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a drum set in the background or some kind of

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weird drink dispenser. And who is this person? Like, is

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he some kind of musician or something like? What is

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this a rock star who became a Roman Catholic? Who

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is this dude a former pastor? Oh my gosh, So

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here we go. So he had to shift his ministry

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into papism, So here we go.

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Speaker 12: Claims for truth are not based solely on what it

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says about itself, but rather on the Bible, history, reason,

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and ultimately faith. So I'm going to break down the

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case for Catholicism one by one here, and I'm going

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to begin with the Bible.

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Speaker 8: But wait a minute, So there is actually an element

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of circularity here because, as is often utilized by Roman

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Catholic apologists, they will say, well, the Bible is actually

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true and we know what it is because of the papacy.

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We would not have the Bible without the papacy telling

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us what the Bible is. That's a classic Roman Catholic argument. So,

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depending upon where he goes with this argument, that actually

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would be a circular argument. If he goes the route

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of saying that if you're a Protestant, you need the

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papacy to know the Bible But wait a minute, the

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papacy is proven. You're arguing here, and as many Roman

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Catholics city from the Bible, so that would actually be

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a circular self referencing argument.

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Speaker 12: Hey, Keith, the Catholic Church is not in the Bible.

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I hear this all the time. Where are the words

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Roman Catholic in the Bible.

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Speaker 8: Well, Keith, you're just assuming that the Bible is when

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it refers to the one universal body, that it's the

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Franco Latin papal Church. In the first centuries of Christianity,

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especially up into the Ecumenical councils, the locus of Christianity

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was in the Eastern Byzantine Empire. All the ecumenical councils

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were in the East and had pretty much nothing to

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do with Rome itself until later in six forty nine,

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where the Pope first tried to call his own ecumenical

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council without any reference to an emperor. Roman Catholics do

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not count later in six forty nine as an ecumenical council,

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which they ought to do if the Roman Catholic principles

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of Vatican One were the case. In the first thousand years,

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whereby the papacy determines the true and false councils, so

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already from the outset, Keith has no idea actually about

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the progress of the early Catholic Church into the later

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medieval East West split in ten fifty four between the

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Eastern Church, the Buzinessing Empire, the other the Four Patriarchs,

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and the Franco Latin Papal soon to be Church.

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Speaker 12: Is that objection alone enough to blow up my argument

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for some maybe, but I suspect.

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Speaker 8: By the way, that is not my opinion. That is

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two day's top Catholic scholars like Devornik or Kongar to

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write about that they.

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Speaker 12: Would be in trouble if they apply that same standard

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to themselves. I mean, where is independent fundamentalist Baptist King

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James only or reformed Calvinists found in the Bible. There

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are many things not explicitly mentioned in the Bible that

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these same objectors will usually accept the Trinity.

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Speaker 8: Well, that's true, but that does not lead to the

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conclusions that Vatican One's teachings, nor that the Franco Latin

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Papal dogmas from the first thousand years and the second

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millennium are found in them Bible either or that they're

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true or that just because, in other words, it doesn't

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follow that because something is or isn't mentioned in scripture,

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then that you could erect an evolving dogmatic tradition outside

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of the scriptures either. So this is a two pronged problem.

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If you go the route of saying that, well, not

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everything that's dogma is in scripture, which we would believe,

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we would agree as Orthodox, but what that means is

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very ambiguous until you start to pin down what the

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romancalogy means on those topics, on those subjects with specificity.

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And these pap apologists never go into the actual documents

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of Vatican One or Vatican two. They only repeat pop

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apologetics because that's all they know. And this poor guy,

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which I've been exactly in the same situation he's in.

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I was a Protestant who became Roman Catholic in two

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thousand and three from these kinds of pop papal arguments,

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and I was duped by fake papal quote minds. That

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was one of the reasons I went into it. I

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thought a lot of those papal quote minds were legit,

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and later I found out they weren't, where they were

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out of context or They didn't tell the whole story,

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the whole picture, and they also didn't prove or demonstrate

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what Vatican one claims. Hence why rom Catholicism argues for

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doctrinal development, eventually.

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Speaker 12: The canon of the Bible, the sinner's prayer. Those are

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just some examples, but I don't want to play that game.

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Using a Lowsi argument to expose another Lowsy argument is

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sometimes necessary, but it really doesn't get us anywhere. Whenever

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someone fires up the where's that in the Bible argument,

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I prepare for not getting anywhere. Usually these arguments evolve into, well,

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that's not what that means. For example, when arguing for

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apostolic succession based on the Bible, I take people to

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Acts chapter one, where the apostles literally chose a successor

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to Judas is Scariot because Peter applies the scripture from

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Psalm one oh nine, let another his office take as

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the reason to elect Matthias to his office.

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Speaker 13: That's a pretty clear cut.

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Speaker 12: Example, sure, but I rarely hear someone go, oh, you

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got me on that one. They instead argue, well, that's

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not what that means. We can do the same thing

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about Mary's immaculate conception, which is rooted in Gabriel's greeting

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to her in Luke one twenty eight and in what

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God said to the serpent in Genesis three point fifteen

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about the woman who would have enmity with him.

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Speaker 8: Who's wait a minute, where's immaculate conception in either of

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those passages.

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Speaker 13: See would crush his head?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, but that isn't Where do you get that that's

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immaculate conception? So he's not even aware of the divergence

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between East and West on this issue. Nor is he aware,

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apparently that you do not find immaculate conception in the

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first several centuries of christian It's a very late idea.

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In fact, even the Eastern Catholic churches still retain the

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feast of her dor mission meaning her going to sleep,

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meaning she died, meaning that she's a daughter of Adam

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who experienced the effects of sin like everyone else. As Orthodox,

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we also agree that does not mean that Mary he

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became a sinner. She is a spotless virgin, but spotless

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virgin does not equate to immaculate conception, which would have

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exempted her from the effects of original sin, namely death.

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But even they celebrate her going to sleep her death,

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so she's not exempted from original sin, and the immaculate

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conception doctrine is also bound up with the Augustinian doctrine

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of inherited guilt. That's the early origins of the idea.

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I'm not saying that Augustine taught necessarily immaculate conception.

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Speaker 12: All that you did this is a clear reference to Mary, who,

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if she were born into sin, would have at one

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point in time been an enemy of God rather than Satan.

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Speaker 8: No, this is still based on the assumption that being

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born in sin in some way is a bound up

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with inherited guilt. Only the Orthodox Church maintains the ancient

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Patristic teaching, and you'll notice that no church fathers, probably

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to Augustine, taught that infants had guilt. Why is Augustine

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the first church father to speak of in an explicit

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way in having the guilt of Adam. If you read

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The City of God and other writings that we've covered

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extensively on my channel over the years, you'll notice that

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Augustine makes it very clear that he believes that all

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men were in Adam as in an archetype, and he

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calls them the mass down nod of the damned Mass.

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That's the basis for why he thought everyone was guilty

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for Adam's sin, even an infant, even a zygote. But

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no other church fathers ever taught this. Were they all Pallagian? No,

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But they understood as Ezekiel says, you're not guilty for

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the sins of your father's until you commit an actual sin.

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The Roman Colloty Church eventually even qualified and rejected the

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notion of inherited guilt. Yet the argumentation that they use

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to prove immaculate conception, ironically still goes back to these

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confusions of inherited guilt and actual sin. You do not

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have guilt until you sin. Actually, you're not sin actually

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until you are able to sin with will and reasoning.

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That does not mean that infants are quote guiltless, or

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that they don't have the effects of adam sin. They

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have the effects, but not the guilt. That's why so

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many church fathers. As you read, if you get really

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get into the church fathers, you'll notice that many of

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them quite often have no qualms about calling infants innocent children,

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innocent babies, innocent infants. In fact, there's a feast the

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murder when the murder of the forty innocence. They're called

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the feasts of the murder of innocence? Why are they

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called the feast of innocence forty or whatever?

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Speaker 9: Many?

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Speaker 8: It was murdered infants if they have actual guilt, Well

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they don't, and so this is a distinction that's later

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confused in later Latin theology, which leads to the Augustinian doctrines,

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which the rest of the Church does not teach.

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Speaker 13: Oh, that's not what that means.

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Speaker 12: We can also look to Matthew sixteen eighteen, where Jesus

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renamed Simon to Peter, which literally means rock, and then

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says upon this rock I will build my church, and

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the gates of Hell will not stand against it. That's

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not what that means. We can do this all day.

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When you ask deep questions about Catholic beliefs, you will

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discover the scriptural roots of everything. The issue is are

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those interpretations accurate? So I want to ask this question

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differently because we must avoid using circular reasoning.

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Speaker 8: So here we go. Now we're going to get an

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argument for how do we know the right interpretation of

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these passages. I'm gonna bet he actually does engage in

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circular reasoning. But you'll notice that he quoted Matthew sixteen eighteen,

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which everybody would agree. Okay, yes, Jesus is speaking to

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Peter because Peter confessed the deed of Christ. There, you're

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the son of God. And Jesus says, you will have

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the keys, you will have the ability to bind into loose.

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But how often do Roman Catholics ever quote or bring

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in two chapters later, where Jesus says the exact same

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thing to the other apostles, I mean to the entire college.

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He says, whatever you guys bind on earth, it'll be

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bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth, it'll be

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loose in heaven. Again, I say to you, to the

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College of the Apostles. That's the audience here, not every

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evangelical praying in his basement. To you, College of Apostles.

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When you guys agree, my father will agree. Where two

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or three of you are there, I am with you

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in your midst. Now this does not specify something that

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is unique to Peter. Two chapters later, the first statement

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is and Peter, I think, is given an award, a

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kind of a honor. And the Orthodox Church agrees that

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Peter got that honor. He's the mouthpiece the corythais of

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the apostles. However, at the same time he says the

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same thing to the to the apostles later on, which

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is to bind into loose, which is the office of

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the keys is not restricted to Peter alone. It's said

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to be the entire college of the Apostles. And hence

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why the Orthodox Church has always said that it's a

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collegial synodal form of church government. Why would Jesus say

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that any of you, if you the two or three

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of you agree, God will agree with you. Why would

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all of them have the ability to open and too loose?

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If it's something that is specific only to Peter, But

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when we have verses out of context, it can give

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the impression that it is, oh something that only Peter has. Likewise,

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when Jesus breathed on the apostles and says that you

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can forgive sins, does he say this only to Peter?

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Does he say does he breathe on Peter and then

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tell Peter to breathe on them? When the Holy Spirit

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comes a Pentecost? Does it come on Peter and then

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Peter hand the Holy Spirit off to everyone else? At

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pentecost or does it come down in a elective, collegial way,

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in the same way as Jesus breathing on all of them?

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So where is there any of the Vatican one ideas?

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So notice that this happens, because this duped me when

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I was a young twenty one two three year old

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reading a lot of these verses, reading a lot of

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these apologetics. Where is the Vatican one claim in any

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of this? And it's not there. Vatican one is very precise,

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very specific, that Peter is being given universal dominion over

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the entire Church in a unilateral way to do essentially

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whatever he feels is necessary to govern the Church. There

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is no collegial situation. It's an autocracy according to Vatican One,

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and Peter and his successors have that power, that authority

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for all time until the end of the world. And

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that it was always this way and it was always

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this case in the church. That's the Vatican one dogma.

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But that is not anywhere in the New Testament, nor

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is it anywhere in the first eight hundred years of Christianity.

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You do have a first among equals place for the

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patriarch of the West of Rome, but none of that

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equates to Vatican One, and in fact, the Vatican nowadays

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has admitted most of these Orthodox criticisms, even to the

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extent of saying that the pope did not exercise universal

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jurisdiction in the first thousand years. Rome has admitted this.

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Speaker 11: Where did Rome admit in the Chady.

470
00:33:35,319 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 8: Document at the very end Chad Document right here, chapter nineteen,

471
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:51,119
section nineteen, Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the

472
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,759
churches of the East. Yet that's exactly what Vatican One

473
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:02,559
claims Rome always did and had. So Key is new,

474
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:05,799
obviously to a lot of these arguments. He probably converted

475
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:08,360
in the last few years, but is not aware of

476
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,360
the more broader context for a lot of these passages

477
00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:16,800
and how much is being read into these passages. Another

478
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,880
point that's brought up in the Edward Denny Papalism book

479
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:26,000
is that it's entirely possible to read Matthew sixteen as Peter,

480
00:34:26,119 --> 00:34:28,800
even though that's actually the minority interpretation of most of

481
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,639
the Church fathers. The majority interpreted as the Faith or

482
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,280
the Confession. There are about fifteen or sixteen I think,

483
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,880
if I recall what Denny says church fathers that interpreted

484
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,440
as Peter himself because of the naming and the new

485
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:44,000
naming being the Rock and so forth. But none of

486
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,079
that necessarily translates into Peter being the super bishop above

487
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:49,639
all the other bishops. In other words, when you have

488
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,480
some church fathers who do think it's Peter, such as

489
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:56,480
Saint Cyprian, Cyprian says every bishop is a Peter. So

490
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:59,719
this is a promise not just to Peter as a

491
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:05,599
civic singular bishop, but that every bishop has Peter functioning

492
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:09,159
in him in this way. So there's a lot of

493
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:14,880
assumptions in this very low level pop apologetic that is

494
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,119
not being dealt with or is not taken into account.

495
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,599
It's precisely this kind of stuff that dupes two hundred

496
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:21,599
and fifty thousand people.

497
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 13: How can we do that?

498
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 12: We will take the questions out of the realm of

499
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,679
personal interpretation and instead ask it this way. Does the

500
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,239
Catholic Church accurately teach the Christian faith? This leads to

501
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,960
the question what is the Christian faith and how can

502
00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:40,079
we know what it teaches? Who gets to define what

503
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:44,239
Christianity is? The Catholic Church claims that it is the

504
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,719
fullness of the Christian faith.

505
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 8: Right, so every time I try to hit the unmute.

506
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:59,000
It doesn't always work, does it doesn't always register. So basically,

507
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,719
all I've been outlining for all the people in the

508
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,599
Twitter space, they're hearing it. But basically what I've outlined

509
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:07,719
is just simply that when of Santem makes it clear

510
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,159
that you have to believe in the universal supremacy of

511
00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:14,280
the Roman Bishop in an earthly sense to be saved,

512
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,199
and it makes us very clear within a few centuries

513
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:23,360
after Dictatus Pape in ten ninety and so this is

514
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,880
something that's no longer required, right, And I made a

515
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,639
video on this. You can go watch the video I

516
00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:33,239
made the other day called this one dogma really refutes Catholicism.

517
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,320
So if I no longer have to believe in the

518
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,760
temporal supremacy of the Roman Bishop to be saved, then

519
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,199
clearly Roman Catholic dogma does change, and it does contradict.

520
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,880
And this is a very explicit, obvious, easy contradiction. There

521
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,320
are many more. For example, Cantate Domino says that you

522
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,039
can't be a martyr outside of the Roman Communion. Well,

523
00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:57,320
the Roman Catholic Church today recognizes countless quote martyrs outside

524
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,079
of Rome and other religions perhaps who knows. I mean

525
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,719
there's at least Anglican martyrers Coptic martyrs. I mean the

526
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,800
Roman Catholic erst now accepts Orthodox Saints that used to

527
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,920
be for centuries considered excommunicated heretics. So these are all

528
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,880
just clear examples of one hundred percent dogmatic contradiction. And

529
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,079
that's why so many a Roman Catholics. You noticed they

530
00:41:20,079 --> 00:41:22,400
do not deal with this argument. When I had an

531
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,079
hour plus debate with that Crisp Plants guy, it took

532
00:41:26,119 --> 00:41:28,360
him an hour to even understand what the argument was.

533
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,199
He thought I was saying that the pope doesn't have

534
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,320
authority over the body. I'm like, no, no, no, it's authority

535
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:40,199
in a sense of like temporal power, like a king. Now,

536
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:46,239
does anyone believe that Jesus was handing to Peter a giant, global,

537
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,159
worldly empire with standing armies and a bank utilizing usury,

538
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,679
utilizing the raw childs who have been the classic people

539
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,760
bankers since the seventeen hundreds? Does anyone believe that's what

540
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,719
g This had in mind? But you understand that if

541
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,679
you become Roman Catholic, this is what you're adopting. And

542
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,440
it's very similar to this this pattern that you're that

543
00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:12,159
I'm pointing out here, this is very similar to what

544
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,199
happens when Muslims or people who are interested in Islam

545
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:19,519
think that it's about this simple thing and they don't

546
00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:22,440
realize you go, you gotta believe all these Hadiaths too, Bro,

547
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,760
you got to believe the fart had deaths. You gotta

548
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,000
believe the Semen had deaths. You gotta believe all these

549
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:32,360
crazy hadeaths. And you don't get to say, oh, I

550
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,320
don't believe any I just believe the Koran because it's

551
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,199
a simple message. That's all bologney. But a lot of

552
00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:42,679
these religions world religions, particularly Roman Catholicism as well, do

553
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,239
the exact same thing, where there's this claim of simplicity

554
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,880
and it's very clear and it's just this these basics

555
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,280
and oh, you only have to believe the extra Cathedra statements.

556
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,039
None of that's true. And that's why when the honeymoon

557
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:57,639
wears off and you realize what the rest of Roman

558
00:42:57,679 --> 00:42:59,719
Catholicism teaches and all the stuff that you have to

559
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,119
exc that's when you start to notice this vast matricey

560
00:43:04,679 --> 00:43:07,320
of history of all of these contradictions and problems.

561
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,599
Speaker 12: So therefore that's the claim we must test. How do

562
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:16,360
we know what the Christian faith is? And how is

563
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,639
Catholicism the fullness of it? This is where the argument

564
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,159
from history comes into play. We know what Christianity is

565
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,880
because we can see what the earliest Christians believed and taught.

566
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,320
We find this information by studying their writings and the

567
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,920
writings of others about them. These writings show us their beliefs, practices,

568
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,920
and their history. Some of these writings are found in

569
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,639
what became the New Testament, which was added to the

570
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:42,320
Hebrew scriptures the Old Testament.

571
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, but it isn't interesting When Roman Catholics talk about this,

572
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:52,039
they conveniently ignore all of the patristic evidence for collegiality, cynidality,

573
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,599
and anything that would be against the Vatican one papal

574
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:01,639
idea because it doesn't really exist first several centuries.

575
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 11: Now.

576
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 8: One example that we might think could be an indicator

577
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,760
of that would be perhaps when Pope Victor in about

578
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,519
one point eighty thinks I'm going to excommunicate everyone in

579
00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:16,559
the East over the dating of Easter. And you can say, okay,

580
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:20,320
maybe this is a early unilateral papal move but when

581
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,559
he did this, how did it work out? Did the

582
00:44:23,599 --> 00:44:27,400
rest of the church accept it? In fact, no Irenaeus,

583
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,320
Saint Ernaeus, whom Roman Catholics try to utilize as a

584
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:36,159
papal proof, famously rebuked Victor and this was not worried with.

585
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:43,119
Right the people didn't accept Victor's outlandish, extensive excommunication. But

586
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,960
beyond that, it doesn't even matter that one bishop says

587
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,239
someone else far away is excommunicated, because later on many

588
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,480
patriarchs and bishops do this very thing. It's very common

589
00:44:53,559 --> 00:44:55,920
later on, And this came up in the ubi Ebara

590
00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,599
debate that just because somebody says we reject heretic from

591
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:04,079
five hundred miles away, it doesn't follow from that that, oh,

592
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:08,480
therefore you have petrine, you know, super universal jurisdiction. That's

593
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:12,920
another leap that doesn't follow. So what often is the

594
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,719
case is that you get these out of context things

595
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,320
like Peter has spoken through Leo, Rome has spoken cases closed,

596
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,960
and in those instances when you go actually read the context,

597
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,079
they don't back up the Vatican One idea at all.

598
00:45:26,119 --> 00:45:32,079
In fact, in the context, Peter is speaking through Cyril,

599
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,039
which is why he's speaking through Leo, because Cyril's tome

600
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,599
is judged against Leo at Calcedon, but Romancaloq pop apologists

601
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:42,760
always flip it, twist it and make it the other

602
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,760
way around. Everyone just saw Leo's tome and they all

603
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,840
just submitted when Leo wrote the letter, Well, then why

604
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,119
do they judge it and spend days investigating to see

605
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:55,320
if it was consistent with Cyril? You don't judge the

606
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,519
first see if the Roman Catholic position is true, you

607
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:02,760
accept it. That's what Batican one says, you accept with docility.

608
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:08,480
So again, over and over and over. It's always out

609
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,159
of context proof texting without the broader sense and ethos

610
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:18,000
of what's going on. Wait a minute, isn't that what

611
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,280
Protestants do? Wow?

612
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 11: What?

613
00:46:21,159 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 8: Yes, the Roman Catholics do the exact same thing as Protestants.

614
00:46:26,159 --> 00:46:29,880
Protestants with scripture, Roman Catholics with the Church fathers, and

615
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,440
in many Roman Cals' mind, it doesn't matter what the

616
00:46:33,519 --> 00:46:35,800
context was or where the Church fathers were teaching. It's

617
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:38,519
actually okay to pull it out of context and make

618
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:43,320
it mean some super papal thing. Yet they turn around

619
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,039
and tell every Protestant that it's ridiculous and wrong for

620
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:52,039
them to do this with the scriptures, but Roman Catholics

621
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:57,519
are Protestants when it comes to the Church fathers and

622
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:01,920
with the papal teaching. And what I mean by that, Well,

623
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,559
when Francis says that all paths lead to God, as

624
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:07,239
he said a few months ago, every Roman Catholic says,

625
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,039
I don't have to accept it. I don't have to

626
00:47:09,039 --> 00:47:13,599
accept it. So there's this total picking and choosing of

627
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,960
what documents they accept as faithful from the pope himself.

628
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,960
When the Pope is supposed to be the epistemic principle

629
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,679
to give us the certitude and the knowledge of which

630
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:26,119
one's true, which faith is true, which interpretation's true?

631
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,079
Speaker 13: Became the Christian Bible.

632
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 12: The books of the Bible are believed to be more

633
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,559
than the writings of humans, though they are considered to

634
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:37,199
be the inspired, infallible word of God, thus carrying the

635
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,480
highest level of authority, along with two other sources of

636
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,159
authority sacred tradition, which means the way the apostles and

637
00:47:44,199 --> 00:47:48,880
their followers have understood Christianity and the magisterium of the Church.

638
00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 8: Is Keith perhaps not aware that almost all of the

639
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,519
modern Roman Catholic magisterium no longer believes in the inerrancy

640
00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:00,920
and infallibility of the Bible. I mean, they believe that

641
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,360
it is a word of God, so to speak. But

642
00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:09,400
pretty much every Roman Catholic seminarian, theologian, you name it

643
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,519
has been infected with modern, higher critical liberal scholarship. And

644
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:15,440
I know that because I was in the Roman Catholic

645
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:18,840
ethos and world for many, many years. And I mean

646
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,719
I found some tradcats who believed in the older documents

647
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,840
like Lamentabili and you know Pachindia Pius the tenth, which

648
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:33,159
condemn modernism in the scripture studies, textual departments. But that's

649
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:35,519
all been discarded. Rome doesn't care about that, and Rome

650
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:37,599
does not uphold those teachings at all.

651
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 12: Which means the teaching authority, the Pope and the councils

652
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,440
think of this as how the Church interprets and applies

653
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:47,960
God's word. All three sources of authority revealed to the

654
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,800
world what the Christian faith is.

655
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 8: Well.

656
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,039
Speaker 12: Individual writings of the church fathers are not infallible. They

657
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:56,800
show us how the beliefs and practices of the Christian

658
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,519
faith were understood and even developed over time. The Magisterium

659
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:03,800
of the Church, led by the Pope, the successor to

660
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,800
Saint Peter, the leader of the Apostles, leads the church

661
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,800
in teaching and in worship. So the question is is

662
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,280
the Catholic Church the fullness of Christianity? The answer is

663
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,360
much bigger than yes, because it says so, Catholicism is

664
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,719
an unbroken line of succession that traces back to Jesus

665
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,159
and the Apostles, and if you look at the earliest

666
00:49:23,159 --> 00:49:25,960
writings of the Christians, you will find the beginnings of

667
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:26,760
the Catholic Church.

668
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, but there are many groups that claim to have

669
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:38,280
Apostolic succession, from the Orthodox, to the Coptics to even

670
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:41,800
some Anglicans and Lutherans. And I'm not saying that they

671
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,639
actually possess it, but they all claim to have it.

672
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,800
So even this argument is not that good because just

673
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,119
because these groups claim to have Apostolic succession, that doesn't

674
00:49:52,159 --> 00:49:54,159
mean that it's the one true Catholic Church church or

675
00:49:54,159 --> 00:49:57,920
that it possesses it necessarily, because that's something that all

676
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,079
those groups possess. So so just Apostolic succession by his

677
00:50:02,119 --> 00:50:04,559
own testament, by his own line of argument, isn't really

678
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:08,239
good enough to prove anything about Rome being the true Church.

679
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 13: People get worked up about that.

680
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:12,559
Speaker 12: They think, if this were true, the church should look

681
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:15,880
today precisely as it looked two thousand years ago. But

682
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,960
is that realistic? Is that God's plan for the church?

683
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:21,679
At what point in history do you say it should

684
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:22,360
stop growing?

685
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 8: Well, here we get the ambiguity in moving the goalposts,

686
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,639
because yeah, I mean, we would expect commonality, and we

687
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:37,480
would expect you know, synthesis and harmony with the Church

688
00:50:37,559 --> 00:50:40,519
of the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century. Sure,

689
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:45,599
but we also would expect some differences in some expressions

690
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:49,199
in terms of cultural whatever that are different. We would

691
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:57,280
not expect vast radical changes in dogma or in liturgical expression.

692
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:02,639
And guess what we have seen vast radical changes in

693
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:07,239
liturgical expression and worship in the Roman See. We have

694
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,360
not seen that in any Orthodox church or any Orthodox bishopric,

695
00:51:11,679 --> 00:51:14,079
except that I'm aware of. There may be one outlier,

696
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,159
But that's different than comparing it to what the Roman

697
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,159
See itself pushes and presents. Why do I say that,

698
00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:26,480
Because this is way beyond this guy's level of grasping

699
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:29,880
this stuff. There's a famous document you can look up

700
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,880
in a Roman Catholic dogmatic history is called actorum fide,

701
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,519
and it's a dogmatic condemnation of the Jansenists. And one

702
00:51:39,559 --> 00:51:42,280
of the propositions that's condemned is that the Jansonists were

703
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:49,199
arguing that Rome could promulgate defective rights, liturgies and sacraments.

704
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:55,800
This is one reason why, for example, the later Reformers

705
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,719
utilize these same types of arguments which were already condemned

706
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,599
in the Jansenists condemnation. But the pro the response to

707
00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:07,400
the Vatican in doctorum fide is that given the Keroism

708
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:11,000
of Peter, to the Roman See, it would be completely

709
00:52:11,039 --> 00:52:15,239
destructive and impossible to the entirety of papal supremacy and

710
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:21,440
authority for Rome to promulgate defective rights and sacraments. And

711
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:25,280
so that's a Protestant position that is condemned. And I

712
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,119
say that because that means you have to accept the Novasorto.

713
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,119
Because Rome has promulgated and pushed and accepted the Novasorto

714
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:37,159
mass since Vatican two. Well, what does that mean? That

715
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:41,400
means there is a drastic change in the style an

716
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:46,559
expression of worship such that it constitutes a revolution in

717
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:52,199
worship akin to the Protestant revolution in worship. And that's

718
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:56,079
why Vatican two was an absolutely one percent protestantizing of

719
00:52:56,079 --> 00:53:00,719
the Roman Catholic Church from the top down, not in

720
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:06,960
a few liberal bishoprics from the Roman seat dogmatically for

721
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,800
the last seventy plus years. So it is not the

722
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:15,400
case that the Romancality Church has not fundamentally changed in

723
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:19,480
fundamental expressions of the faith, one of which the most important,

724
00:53:19,519 --> 00:53:22,159
which perhaps is the worship of God.

725
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 12: You could make this argument when Jesus called others to

726
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,840
follow him after the twelve Apostles, Hey, this doesn't look

727
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,679
the way it used to look. Or what about a

728
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,880
Pentecost when the church grew by three thousand people, or

729
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,639
when the Apostles created deacons.

730
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, but that's also not in any way analogous to

731
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:43,519
a giant global Vatican bank that utilized his organized crime

732
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:47,639
and usury literally for the last three centuries with the

733
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:52,840
approval of the Vatican run by the Rothschilds explicitly publicly.

734
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,199
History is that what Jesus had in mind standing armies,

735
00:53:56,599 --> 00:54:00,199
The Pope says, kiss my feet and my ring as

736
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:03,960
a worldly emperor. I thought Jesus told the apostles that

737
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,960
do not try to be like the global emperors and

738
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,840
the world powers. With their vanity and their glory. He said,

739
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:17,000
you are subject to one another through humility. And yet

740
00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:19,400
what is the papas the historically what is when I'm

741
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:24,679
sanctum infinitely light year? Is the opposite of that seeking

742
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,519
to be explicitly a geopolitical world power?

743
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:32,679
Speaker 12: When are we supposed to have a snapshot and never

744
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:33,440
grow from there?

745
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 13: Do you see my point? The church is on a trajectory.

746
00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 8: Notice the ambiguity that all of these guys utilize. The

747
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,039
idea that the church grew in numbers and expansion and

748
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:47,920
expression of faith through the liturgy and through when I

749
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,119
say the liturgy, I mean through the linguistic expressions of

750
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:53,880
the various groups in the church. Roman Catholics called them

751
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,559
the sixteen rites of the of the Church. Are ite,

752
00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:00,360
They'll say, well, look you've got all these sixteen rights,

753
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,679
they all express the one papal faith. No, no, no, that's

754
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,920
not what I'm talking about in terms of growth. So

755
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,239
he's training on ambiguity with growth. And this is precisely

756
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,239
what they do with development of doctrine, because development of

757
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:18,079
doctrine then becomes a catch all for the papacy tacking

758
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,320
on new things. So when I talk about these medieval

759
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:26,719
things with unam sanctam and temporol supremacy. Oh well, you see,

760
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,880
that's the natural, organic growth and development that we're talking about.

761
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:38,679
So now growth becomes a cover for dogmatic contradiction and change. No,

762
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:43,599
no having standing armies, which the Canons of Chalcedon say,

763
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,400
no cleric can be a part of civil service is

764
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,960
a contradiction. And there's nothing in the Canons of Chalcaton

765
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,519
to say except for the Bishop of Rome, he can,

766
00:55:53,599 --> 00:55:57,239
of course be a world emperor. When Chalcidon wrote it's canons,

767
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,559
they didn't make any exceptions for any cleric, much less

768
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:03,599
the Bishop of Rome. So if a few centuries later

769
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:05,559
the Bishop of Rome says, oh, by the way, I'm

770
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:09,079
also a world emperor. And if you don't accept that,

771
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:16,000
you're not saved. That is absolutely a contradiction. And yes,

772
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:16,840
it's dogmatic.

773
00:56:19,159 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 12: Grows and develops because it is alive, and as it does,

774
00:56:23,039 --> 00:56:25,920
things will look different, and when you ask why, you

775
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,920
can find an answer. For example, the church became headquartered

776
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,320
in Rome because that's where Peter was bishop when he died.

777
00:56:31,639 --> 00:56:38,159
Speaker 8: However, I love this argument, So where they die is

778
00:56:38,199 --> 00:56:44,440
what confers these special superpowers. Now, keep in mind, Peter

779
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,599
ordained the line of bishops in Alexandra and Antioch. Those

780
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:52,119
are all patrin seas, all the way up into the

781
00:56:52,199 --> 00:56:54,679
days of Pope Saint Gregory the Great, who writes letters

782
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:58,199
saying there are three patrin sees, Rome, Alexander, and Antioch.

783
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,519
So how is that Rome that had to come up

784
00:57:01,519 --> 00:57:06,360
with a reason why Rome was so special? Which actually

785
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,159
in the Church Fathers this is mentioned many times. For example,

786
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,800
Ieron Aa says Rome is special because it's doubly Apostolic.

787
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:19,519
He explicitly says Peter and Paul in every Orthodox icon,

788
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,559
you'll notice that of the church, you see Peter and

789
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:26,960
Paul holding the church, so they're equal. So it makes

790
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,280
sense why Rome would be called special in that sense,

791
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:35,440
being doubly Apostolic. Hence, Paul writes the famous Letter to

792
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,519
the Roman Church to the Romans, but Paul warns the

793
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:43,599
Romans in chapter eleven that if they are haughty and arrogant,

794
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:46,199
they can be grafted out of the Covenant. Now, why

795
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:48,480
would Paul write that to a church that could never

796
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:53,519
fail and could never be grafted out of the Covenant. Ironically, providentially, prophetically,

797
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:58,239
Paul actually predicts the downfall of the Roman Church, because

798
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:03,039
he warns that church, you guys could fall into pride

799
00:58:03,079 --> 00:58:06,400
and arrogance and fall from that pride. Do not be haughty,

800
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:09,960
because if God grafted out Jews, he can graft out

801
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,760
the Roman Church. And he did. And that's the key

802
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,440
point here. This is why the Roman Church manifests all

803
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,199
the blasphemies and the ridiculousness that they've manifested for so

804
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:24,480
many decades. And Roman Catholics and Tradcats are liars when

805
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,960
they lie to themselves that that's not true. And I

806
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,039
don't have to accept it, and it's not the case.

807
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,440
And I don't have to accept Benedict praying towards Mecca,

808
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:34,360
and I don't have to accept John Pall the Second

809
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,760
praying in the synagogues, even though that's condemned in the

810
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,840
ancient canons. No, you do have to condemn those things.

811
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:42,920
You do have to accept those things if you're a Catholic.

812
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:45,800
And this is what creates the double mind and the

813
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,440
insanity and the craziness in the way that they act.

814
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 12: Constantine did not start the Catholic Church in the fourth century.

815
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,119
You can't just accept these myths created by anti Catholics

816
00:58:56,119 --> 00:58:56,559
as fact.

817
00:58:56,679 --> 00:58:58,079
Speaker 13: You need to look at history.

818
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 12: Unfortunately, we have writings before the time of Constantine that

819
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,199
show us what was going on in the early Church.

820
00:59:05,119 --> 00:59:07,840
Over the centuries, the Church has continued to grow and

821
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,840
develop in its practices and theological understanding. That's why we

822
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,960
need an authoritative magisterium to protect and defend the depositive

823
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,880
faith given by Jesus to his apostles. As the Church

824
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,079
grows and its mission and new issues are raised, the

825
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:27,000
Church clarifies its beliefs and settles disputes. That's what we

826
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:30,519
see in history and this is important as we look

827
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:31,719
at Catholicism today.

828
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,199
Speaker 8: Yeah, but we see it through ecumenical councils. We don't

829
00:59:35,199 --> 00:59:37,480
see it through just writing to the Bishop of Rome

830
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:40,000
to solve the disputes and make it clear, which, by

831
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:42,440
the way, wouldn't that have been the way to do

832
00:59:42,519 --> 00:59:45,679
it if the Vatican One view is true. And you

833
00:59:45,719 --> 00:59:47,599
know this has been brought up many many times to

834
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:50,639
the Roman Catholic paup apologists, and they do address this,

835
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,119
but do you know how they address this objection? You

836
00:59:53,119 --> 00:59:54,519
remember what Abara said.

837
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 11: Well, the pope couldn't answer all those letters, he'd be

838
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:02,000
walking around in a sea of papers into Vedic. That's

839
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:06,679
literally that was his argument. So I mean, well, but

840
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,559
the pope wants to do things in collusion with the bishops.

841
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 8: Why involve everybody else in the world, in the ancient world,

842
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:16,840
bringing a bunch of people from all over to a

843
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,800
central location which would take months, perhaps even years to

844
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,280
send the letters and to get everybody there. And by

845
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,119
the way, no popes call ecumenical councils. It's all emperors.

846
01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:32,320
So none of that makes any sense with the Vatican

847
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,440
One model of how the church is supposed to be

848
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:38,159
run and directed. Oh well, but that was a different time,

849
01:00:38,199 --> 01:00:40,039
and you see it change. Yeah, exactly what I thought

850
01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:43,039
rom Kellock Gooma doesn't change. Well, it developed. Oh okay,

851
01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:45,079
so what does that mean. Well, so whatever the pope

852
01:00:45,119 --> 01:00:47,800
says today, that's the true thing you said, that's that's

853
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,320
actually how it operates. So if the pope today says

854
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,159
there was never a time when we condemned the Muslims,

855
01:00:55,239 --> 01:00:58,239
then then it's like quantum papacy. It was never true.

856
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:06,239
Literally retroactive retro causation. You thought that the or urban

857
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,239
the second called crusades against Islam. No, no, no, you see

858
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,599
that never happened. Retroactive causation. The pope has now preyed

859
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:16,280
in the Moss towards Mecca with the Muslims, so there

860
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,079
was there were no crusades that didn't happen, So just

861
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:24,119
papal gas lighting and quantum papacy rewriting history.

862
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 12: We can see its connection to the past. We can

863
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,480
see how the Church fathers processed and worked out certain

864
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:35,760
theological concepts like the canon of the Bible, the Trinity, baptism, salvation,

865
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:37,840
but also practical things like.

866
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 8: What about communion. Did the Church have a worked out

867
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:45,079
practice of communion in the first seven eighth centuries? Actually

868
01:01:45,119 --> 01:01:49,159
it did, and pretty much universally it included infants. And

869
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,119
yet when we get the rise of the papacy, at

870
01:01:52,239 --> 01:01:55,159
least in terms of temporal power in the eighth ninth

871
01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:59,039
tenth century, particularly when it comes into collusion with the

872
01:01:59,079 --> 01:02:03,639
Frankish power. Isn't it interesting that that's exactly when there's

873
01:02:03,679 --> 01:02:08,320
no longer infant communion in the West, another liturgical revolution

874
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,719
which is not mentioned or not dealt with, or just

875
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,079
swept under the rug. And when you bring this up

876
01:02:14,119 --> 01:02:16,719
to Roman Catholics, they either deny it, they don't care,

877
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,760
or they act like It's just not the case. No,

878
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,440
Rome never commune infants. Yes they did, Western Latin church

879
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,239
fathers talk about infant communion. Oh well, the pote made

880
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,000
a change because it was necessary. Why how is there

881
01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:35,480
this unilateral change in liturgical practice when the purpose is

882
01:02:35,519 --> 01:02:39,440
supposed to be preservation of the tradition and the practices.

883
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,280
There were Latin priests that were married. Did you know that?

884
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:49,039
Did you know that Initially Rome didn't have a problem

885
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:53,239
with Trollo and then later they did. Why is that?

886
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,440
I thought it was maintaining the traditions and preserving the

887
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:57,280
truth for all time.

888
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:01,159
Speaker 12: Do with those who denied the faith and wanted to return,

889
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,000
or how the church should be administered, the interplay between

890
01:03:05,039 --> 01:03:08,880
the church and the various political states. These are real issues,

891
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,400
and they weren't all explicitly fully defined at the time

892
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:12,000
of Jesus.

893
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 13: We see a great example of this in action.

894
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 8: So would that include uhen I'm sanctam and the pope

895
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,039
being the quisas hoder Rock? I mean? Is that where

896
01:03:20,039 --> 01:03:22,840
you're going with this? Is that part of the evolving tradition.

897
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 12: Chapter fifteen, where the Magisterium of the Church had to

898
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,480
work out what to do with Gentile conference to Christian.

899
01:03:29,599 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know some Magisterian by the way, isn't it Peter.

900
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:34,679
It's a council presided over by James.

901
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:38,559
Speaker 12: Interesting, Andy, would these people need to obey the entire

902
01:03:38,639 --> 01:03:42,719
Jewish law before becoming Christians? There was a discussion and prayer,

903
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,679
and ultimately, based on experience and the leading of the

904
01:03:45,679 --> 01:03:48,519
Holy Spirit, a decision was made to settle this.

905
01:03:48,639 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 8: New How was that decision made? Was it made unilaterally

906
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,559
by asking Peter what the answer is? Or do they

907
01:03:55,559 --> 01:04:00,039
have a synod synodol church government, which is what the

908
01:04:00,519 --> 01:04:03,960
Orthodox Church still does, which is what the Roman Catholic

909
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:15,440
Church has conceded in their recent synods on sinidality. So

910
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:20,840
in twenty sixteen they started this dialogue about cynidality and

911
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:25,159
primacy and this was the first admission in this series

912
01:04:25,199 --> 01:04:30,280
of admissions where Rome was not what Vatican one says.

913
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,559
And then they came out with another document in twenty

914
01:04:34,639 --> 01:04:37,760
twenty three called the Alexandria Document. And what's it on

915
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:45,679
sinnodality and what councils are they having in Rome right now?

916
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,599
I don't know if it's still ongoing or if it's ended.

917
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:50,639
But Tim Gordon has been yelling about it for the

918
01:04:50,719 --> 01:04:58,800
last year the synods on sinidality. So if this is

919
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,960
the case, why having to make all these concessions in

920
01:05:02,039 --> 01:05:13,400
their own synods to sinidality issue.

921
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 12: They didn't just quote a verse from the Old Testament.

922
01:05:16,639 --> 01:05:20,559
This is the pattern that continued throughout the history of Christianity.

923
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:22,039
Speaker 13: This is Catholicism.

924
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:25,079
Speaker 12: By the way, for Protestants who get wigged out by

925
01:05:25,079 --> 01:05:28,400
practical or doctrinal development, why do they never apply this time?

926
01:05:28,519 --> 01:05:33,079
Speaker 8: Ah, you notice that that he slipped in, So he

927
01:05:33,199 --> 01:05:38,119
slipped in doctrinal development. Does Vatican want anywhere appeal to

928
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:42,480
doctrinal development? No, it does not. In fact, it actually claims,

929
01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:46,079
as does satist Cognium of Leo the thirteenth, that the

930
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:50,079
papal position, the vatican one position, was always the case,

931
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:54,639
universally known from the earliest days of the Church. But now,

932
01:05:54,679 --> 01:05:59,440
in order to solve the apparent problem of medieval pope

933
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:03,519
says kings and emperors, Well, it's develops, you see. So

934
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:07,880
there's a lot of ambiguity and elastic terminology such as

935
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:13,639
develops and the church grows. Well, at first, it sounded

936
01:06:13,679 --> 01:06:15,679
like you were talking about grows in terms of numbers,

937
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,880
which everybody agrees with. But then that somehow flipped over

938
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,840
into bait and switch to be grows in terms of

939
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:27,159
doctrinal understanding to where no, there wasn't in Jesus's mind

940
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:29,639
necessarily at the time of the founding of the Church,

941
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:33,840
a Vatican bank and an imperial insignia that you had

942
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,239
to believe in to be saved by the Pope whatever,

943
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,079
none of the no, that grew and developed. But again,

944
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:45,599
which one is it? Was it always the case or

945
01:06:45,599 --> 01:06:49,880
did it have a seed form that developed? I hammer

946
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,679
this home all the time for the last several years,

947
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,719
because they do the exact same double standard. The Romancolic

948
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,960
pop apologies will in one voice sit there and tell

949
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,840
you that it was always the case from the earliest days,

950
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:09,280
and then contradict himself with a mutually exclusive claim that no,

951
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,280
it wasn't really clear. It was a seed form and

952
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,360
it had to grow. It can't be both, And Vatican

953
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,400
won inside these communitims said that it was not a

954
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,159
seed form that grew. That's Cardinal Newman's theory to explain

955
01:07:21,199 --> 01:07:24,920
the problems. Cardinal Newman's theory does not line up with

956
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:29,599
what Vatican won inside East Communum actually claim, but Ron mccallack.

957
01:07:29,639 --> 01:07:35,760
Apologies with a double standard movable goalpost constantly utilize both

958
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,559
principles in their apologetic and nobody calls them out or

959
01:07:39,599 --> 01:07:42,760
points this out. When it's a mutually exclusive claim, it

960
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,800
literally cannot be both. Imagine if I said the Orthodox

961
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,440
Church was not clear in the first few centuries, but

962
01:07:50,519 --> 01:07:52,960
it was always the Orthodox Church that was clearly there.

963
01:07:53,719 --> 01:07:55,840
The Orthodox Church was a seed that grew to what

964
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,719
it is, but it was also clearly universally there from

965
01:07:59,719 --> 01:08:02,960
the very beginning, at all times, in all places, recognized

966
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:08,079
by everyone. That makes no sense. But everybody just believes

967
01:08:08,159 --> 01:08:10,639
these dumb pop arguments and just lets these people just

968
01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:13,119
say all this stuff. Nobody ever calls them out on it.

969
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,439
Nobody confronts the paup apologist with this crap, and none

970
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,439
of the paup apologists will ever debate me because I

971
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:21,119
don't let this nonsense lie. I called him out immediately

972
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:24,119
on it, and then they bitch and wine moan for

973
01:08:24,159 --> 01:08:29,960
seven years. Now, me give me a break, us.

974
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,199
Speaker 12: That the Catholic Church has structure and developments. Do they

975
01:08:33,199 --> 01:08:37,239
not see that in themselves? It's so hypocritical, The only.

976
01:08:37,039 --> 01:08:37,520
Speaker 11: People all.

977
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,359
Speaker 8: So wait a minute, so you're saying that the Roman

978
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:46,640
Catholic Church's development is like the development in the Protestant world.

979
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:51,239
That's a a one admission that Roman Catholicism is a

980
01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:55,119
Protestant type position that develops and changes. It's exactly my point,

981
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,000
and he just admitted it. When you're a hypocritical, if

982
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,159
you're a Protestant, you believe, and you say that doctrines

983
01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:06,560
shouldn't develop, you believe the doctrine develops. Again, notice all

984
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:10,159
this ambiguity, What exactly do you mean by doctrinal development?

985
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:12,960
Do you mean that the doctrines change? Or do you

986
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,479
mean that we have a greater understanding of the doctrines

987
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,760
as an order the docts person. I could agree to that,

988
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,279
But saying that I have a greater understanding of the

989
01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:25,479
theological doctrines and pronunciations by the sixth or seventh century

990
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:30,720
does not equate to a totally new idea that Peter

991
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,279
is also a world emperor, which is nowhere in the

992
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:38,159
first seven centuries of Christianity. In fact, it's famously based

993
01:09:38,199 --> 01:09:41,760
on a forgery, the Donation of Constantine, which the Vatican

994
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:47,960
evinces a forgery. So no, there is no equating better

995
01:09:48,079 --> 01:09:54,000
understanding with doctrinal development. When he's using doctrinal development to

996
01:09:54,039 --> 01:09:58,720
explain new dogmas that evolved that contradict previous ideas.

997
01:09:59,199 --> 01:10:03,199
Speaker 12: This is are the Eastern Orthodox because they too trace

998
01:10:03,279 --> 01:10:06,279
their history back to the beginning. But that's for another video.

999
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:10,760
Catholicism traces itself in an unbroken line of succession back

1000
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,920
to Jesus, and you can say.

1001
01:10:13,039 --> 01:10:16,319
Speaker 8: So to the Coptics, so to the Assyrians. So do

1002
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:20,119
the Orthodox like, what does that prove? I'd like to

1003
01:10:20,119 --> 01:10:23,239
see his Orthodox video? I bet what do you want

1004
01:10:23,279 --> 01:10:24,920
to bet? It's not very high tier.

1005
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 12: As an objective fact. People may not like that, but

1006
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,840
it's true. This is why it's so ridiculous when people

1007
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:33,880
say things like, well, Catholics aren't Christians.

1008
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 13: I've even heard.

1009
01:10:35,359 --> 01:10:38,319
Speaker 12: People say this about our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters.

1010
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,600
But my friends, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are the original Christians.

1011
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:45,600
Speaker 8: Yes, well wait a minute, So if I'm an original

1012
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,600
Christian as an Orthodox, then I don't need the papacy.

1013
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:52,439
And if the papacy has admitted, as Benice the sixteenth

1014
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:56,119
did that the Orthodox have maintained the Catholic Christian faith

1015
01:10:56,119 --> 01:10:58,199
in the last thousand years and a Roman Catholic submit

1016
01:10:58,279 --> 01:11:01,159
that we have gracious sacraments, which they admit, then why

1017
01:11:01,159 --> 01:11:03,600
do we need the papacy? Exactly what exactly is it

1018
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,760
doing that we missed out on in the last thousand years?

1019
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,960
You see, he's expressing the Vatican two attitude that you

1020
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:17,319
can reject multiple ecumenical councils and still remain a quote

1021
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:21,560
true Catholic or Christian. Was that the teaching of Vatican

1022
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:27,079
one only what a century plus ago? Well, Vatican one

1023
01:11:27,159 --> 01:11:32,039
attaches excommunication to anyone who rejects Vatican One. So if

1024
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:36,279
you were consistent, Orthodox who are explicit about the rejection

1025
01:11:36,359 --> 01:11:40,640
of Vatican One are not Christian. They are excommunicated heretics

1026
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:46,119
and schismatics. But he's expressing the lovey dove Vatican two

1027
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:49,399
Acumenius attitude that oh, well, we're all Christians, bro or

1028
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:54,439
at least here it seems to be Apostolic Christians, which

1029
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,600
whatever that is, I don't know what that that's supposed

1030
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:58,960
to be. Oh, anybody who's quote apposolic succession, Well, who

1031
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,039
decides who has episodes excession? Oh Rome does. Oh so

1032
01:12:02,079 --> 01:12:07,479
if Rome accepts the Coptics and the Orthodox and whoever

1033
01:12:08,039 --> 01:12:11,960
Assyrians may be, so suddenly they're now Christians. That's not

1034
01:12:12,079 --> 01:12:14,399
the reasoning or the or the mindset of the ideology

1035
01:12:14,399 --> 01:12:19,279
of ecclesiology from Cantate Domino to Vatican One. That's the

1036
01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:22,439
idea post Vatican One up into Vatican two and Ecumenism,

1037
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:27,479
when the Roman Catholic Church no longer rejects interfaith gatherings.

1038
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:31,279
As late as nineteen twenty eight, interfaith gatherings were explicitly

1039
01:12:31,359 --> 01:12:35,479
called apostasy and heresy and surrendering of the faith. Just

1040
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:41,079
look up Mortalium Anamos a Pious the eleventh. But he's

1041
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:46,439
already contradicted by now expressing a Vatican two specific Roman Catholicism,

1042
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:51,479
which literally says schismatics and people who reject a thousand

1043
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,800
years of the papacy are still somehow Catholic Christians in

1044
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:57,399
good standing. That makes no sense oracle fact.

1045
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,039
Speaker 12: Now for some people who still find this is completely crazy,

1046
01:13:01,319 --> 01:13:03,560
I would challenge you to look at the writings of

1047
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,880
the Church fathers. You will see Catholic beliefs on the

1048
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,840
primacy of the Bishop of Rome, the real presence of

1049
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:13,159
Jesus and the Eucharist, the Mass as a sacrifice to God,

1050
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,359
the baptism of infants and baptismal regeneration, the authority of

1051
01:13:17,359 --> 01:13:20,520
the Catholic Church, the Canon of Scripture as the Catholic

1052
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:24,239
Church has it today, the veneration of icons, and prayer

1053
01:13:24,279 --> 01:13:26,640
to the saints, and even the veneration of the Blessed

1054
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:27,359
Virgin Mary.

1055
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 13: Now I know the objections.

1056
01:13:29,079 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 12: Some say I don't care what the church fathers say,

1057
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,720
I only care about the Bible. But that statement blows

1058
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,319
up when you realize that God used the Church to

1059
01:13:37,399 --> 01:13:41,199
tell you which books are in the Bible are other things.

1060
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 8: So he actually did present a circular argument. The papacy

1061
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,840
is where you get the Bible. You couldn't know the paper.

1062
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,119
And when he says the church, he means the papacy,

1063
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,720
because every Roman Catholic apologist is going to date it

1064
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,359
to the Roman councils and to Damasists to say how

1065
01:13:56,399 --> 01:13:59,239
they know what the canon scripture is. So he decided

1066
01:13:59,399 --> 01:14:07,000
the the papacy as the source of the canon. But

1067
01:14:07,039 --> 01:14:09,159
I wanted to remind you because many of you are

1068
01:14:09,159 --> 01:14:12,439
not familiar with this. Many people have not read Denzinger.

1069
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,039
They don't know what's in contate Domino, which is the

1070
01:14:15,079 --> 01:14:17,680
pronunciation of the Council of Florence. So it's a dogmatic

1071
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,880
statement from the Council Florence. You can look it up,

1072
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,239
Contate Domino, not the liturgical music that pops up, but

1073
01:14:24,279 --> 01:14:29,479
the actual pronunciation of Pute Eugene fourth from the Council Florence.

1074
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,319
This is the bull that he wrote. And I want

1075
01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:35,920
you to tell me if you think this famous Papa

1076
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,640
Bull at all reads like Vatican two and what this

1077
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,920
guy says. The Roman Church firmly believes and professes that

1078
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:46,000
those not living within the Catholic Church, not only Pagans,

1079
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:51,079
but Jews, heretics and schismatics, cannot become participants in eternal life,

1080
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,439
but will depart into everlasting fire prepared for the devil

1081
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,840
and his angels, unless before the end of life the

1082
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,960
same have been added to the flock, the paper flock.

1083
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,119
And the said unity of the ecclesiastical body is so

1084
01:15:04,159 --> 01:15:08,199
strong that only those remaining in it, that to those

1085
01:15:08,239 --> 01:15:11,159
remaining and are the sacraments of benefit to salvation and

1086
01:15:11,199 --> 01:15:13,079
do fasting, alms giving, an other functions of piety and

1087
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:16,640
exercise of the Christian service to produce the eternal reward.

1088
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,319
And that no one who whatever almsgiving he's practiced even

1089
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:23,359
if he shed blood for the name of Christ, even

1090
01:15:23,359 --> 01:15:27,359
if he's a martyr, a Christian martyr outside of Rome

1091
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:31,000
is not saved unless he remains in the bosom and

1092
01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:35,880
unity of the Roman Catholic Church. So notice contat Domino

1093
01:15:36,199 --> 01:15:40,520
does not accept martyrs and saints outside of communion with

1094
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:45,319
the Bishop of Rome. And this is not some obscure document.

1095
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,039
This is one of the most famous documents in the

1096
01:15:48,079 --> 01:15:51,760
history of the Catholic Church. Pope Eugene the fourt's Cantate Domino.

1097
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:56,359
Speaker 11: So go look it up.

1098
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,640
Speaker 8: You'll find it very easily if you search it, Cantata

1099
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:04,840
Domo Eugene, and it tells you that doesn't even matter

1100
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:09,000
if you're a martyr in some other communion, you're not saved.

1101
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:13,760
Another contradiction because Madicandu says the very opposite. Not only

1102
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:17,000
are there martyrs and Christians that people saved in all

1103
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,520
the other schismatic bodies and groups. There's in fact people

1104
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,439
saved in Hinduism, as no tretate says Hindus love God

1105
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:26,720
like Catholics do.

1106
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 12: Others will say, well, the church fathers aren't unanimous, so

1107
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,239
you guys are picking and choosing.

1108
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 13: I agree, that's precisely why the authority.

1109
01:16:35,359 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 12: Of the Church is not based only on the Church fathers,

1110
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,840
but also on the scriptures and the magisterium. It is

1111
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,800
the God given role of the Church to preserve, unpack

1112
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,000
and teach the depositive faith pass down from Jesus to

1113
01:16:48,039 --> 01:16:51,239
the apostles and their successors. The Bible says in Second

1114
01:16:51,319 --> 01:16:55,800
Thessalonians two fifteen, So then, brethren, stand firm and hold

1115
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,720
to the traditions which you were taught by us, either

1116
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,279
by word of mouth or by letter. And also in

1117
01:17:02,279 --> 01:17:06,000
one Timothy three fifteen, if I am delayed, you may

1118
01:17:06,079 --> 01:17:07,560
know how one ought to behave.

1119
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,079
Speaker 8: Of course, everybody's heard these verses a million times, and

1120
01:17:11,119 --> 01:17:14,000
I mean these are good verses to refute, you know,

1121
01:17:14,079 --> 01:17:17,920
sol Scripture at presuppositions. But none of these things demonstrate

1122
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,840
that the Roman Church is the one true church, or

1123
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,760
that the papacy is the case. And in fact, I

1124
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:27,039
can keep going on and on and on, for example,

1125
01:17:27,079 --> 01:17:32,520
that it can choose Lumingentium. Paragraph sixteen says that Muslims

1126
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,560
have the faith of Abraham, and that God accepts their

1127
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,960
prayers and their alms giving and so forth, as does

1128
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,439
nos Ratt says the exact same thing. And the reason

1129
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,640
I like to bring both of these quotes up is

1130
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:48,399
because they will engage in deflection and dissimulation. If you

1131
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:51,880
mention the fact that the Muslims over here in nostra

1132
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:55,119
Atate say that they have the faith of Abraham, they'll say, oh,

1133
01:17:55,159 --> 01:17:58,800
but doesn't actually say that says they believe they have it. No, Actually,

1134
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:03,079
when you compare both documents, it explicitly says they actually

1135
01:18:03,119 --> 01:18:07,079
do have it. So notice the they'll say it's weaponized ambiguity.

1136
01:18:07,399 --> 01:18:11,359
Well wait a minute. Notice the new guy, our new

1137
01:18:11,399 --> 01:18:14,520
guy here, who doesn't really know this stuff and is

1138
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,279
new to all this. He thinks.

1139
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 11: That this is all solved. Bro, it makes it all clear.

1140
01:18:20,079 --> 01:18:23,279
Speaker 8: Dude, he's not even on he's not even at the

1141
01:18:23,319 --> 01:18:25,279
stage where he's gonna have to deal with the tradcat

1142
01:18:25,319 --> 01:18:28,239
stuff yet. But give this guy two or three years

1143
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,359
and he'll I like Taylor Marshall now, and then give

1144
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,840
him about five years. I'm starting to think France is

1145
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,600
into pope, all right. So this is the track that

1146
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,319
everybody goes on in this domain. So he's not there yet,

1147
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:44,159
but he will be. He'll be forced to be, because

1148
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,399
then I'm not trying to be mean or arrogant, like

1149
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,119
where this guy's at I was at this stage in

1150
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:53,199
two thousand and two. It's exactly where I was twenty

1151
01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:56,359
two years ago. And then you're gonna have to start

1152
01:18:56,399 --> 01:18:59,000
digging into these documents. You're gonna realize, Hey, wait a minute,

1153
01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:01,960
how do we call crusades against people that we now

1154
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,840
say can be saved because they have the faith of Abraham. Hello,

1155
01:19:05,359 --> 01:19:07,159
you don't have the faith of Abraham if you don't

1156
01:19:07,159 --> 01:19:11,479
believe in Christ, and if you don't believe in the Trinity,

1157
01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:15,720
And how are people not recognizing this? In Trent Horn,

1158
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:20,359
the last surviving sole apologist star of the Roman system,

1159
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:25,119
who literally thinks that the word triad is an Aryan term,

1160
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:29,840
I mean, the very term used in Greek Catholic churches

1161
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,399
for the Trinity. This goober still thinks he doubled down,

1162
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:39,159
still thinks is an anti Trinitarian term. The one who

1163
01:19:39,239 --> 01:19:43,000
says that, yeah, Francis does appear to contradict when he

1164
01:19:43,039 --> 01:19:45,359
says that the death pimple is against the Gospel, but

1165
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,439
come up with about five different ways to make sense

1166
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,239
of it. He says, so these people are sophists. They

1167
01:19:51,319 --> 01:19:59,079
use sophistry but how is Muslims have the faith of

1168
01:19:59,119 --> 01:20:02,319
Abraham and love and worship God like we do. How

1169
01:20:02,399 --> 01:20:03,279
is that at all.

1170
01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 11: Meshable?

1171
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,600
Speaker 8: Mashable smashable with Cantaze Domino that we just read that

1172
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,439
says that even if you shed blood in a heretical

1173
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,600
sect for the name of Christ, if you're not in

1174
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:20,199
community with the papacy, you're damned. Well, guess what. They're

1175
01:20:20,239 --> 01:20:24,840
not meshable, they're obvious contradictions. And that's why everybody who's

1176
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,800
honest with himself just says, this is a contradiction, Like

1177
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,840
I can't praying a moss towards Mecca and then turn

1178
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:37,520
around and deny that this is who we called crusades

1179
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:42,279
against Hello, it's in your face. And a lot of

1180
01:20:42,279 --> 01:20:43,239
times Rome Kelly.

1181
01:20:43,079 --> 01:20:46,119
Speaker 11: Said, well, if God was really allowing and permitting a

1182
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:48,640
deception with Rome, wouldn't he make it obvious?

1183
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 8: He has. It is obvious. It has been displayed before

1184
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:58,840
the entire world for seventy plus years, and every day

1185
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,560
almost Francis grants us a new scandal that helps us

1186
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:07,039
to see. Yeah, absolutely, he doesn't believe the Catholic faith.

1187
01:21:07,159 --> 01:21:10,560
He doesn't believe the Christian faith. In fact, Francis hates

1188
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,760
you and he makes fun of you. All you tradcats

1189
01:21:15,119 --> 01:21:17,199
are arguing for the guy who hates you and makes

1190
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:19,399
fun of you. He thinks you're ridiculous. He one hundred

1191
01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:24,439
percent absolutely serves the globalist agenda. Remember the globalist agenda

1192
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:26,760
that Trent says doesn't exist. There is no such thing

1193
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,279
as that. Here's your genius Roman Catholic apologist who's so

1194
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,439
normy turbo noormy that he doesn't even know what the

1195
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:38,439
nWo is. He doesn't even know what Davos is, doesn't

1196
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,239
know what Klaus talks about. He says that my positions

1197
01:21:42,239 --> 01:21:45,760
are the equivalent to chick tracks. You are listening to

1198
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,039
a normy on your religious soul decision who doesn't know

1199
01:21:50,119 --> 01:21:52,720
that there's Davos in a World Economic Forum and all

1200
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:56,119
that stuff. Why would you listen to somebody so naive

1201
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:03,039
and silly about how the world works, but you think

1202
01:22:03,079 --> 01:22:07,039
he knows where to go spiritually in terms of your destiny.

1203
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:13,840
You're foolish, you're ignorant, You're being used. And I don't

1204
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,800
think that he's malicious. I think that he just doesn't know.

1205
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:20,119
In fact, in the debate that I had with Trent,

1206
01:22:21,119 --> 01:22:24,600
there were like five philosophy basics that he had no

1207
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:27,399
idea what they meant, he didn't even know what I

1208
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:32,800
was talking about. So no, I don't think Trent is malicious.

1209
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:36,439
I just think he has no idea. And that's why

1210
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:38,760
I've asked three times over the years for him to

1211
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,840
debate me on the geopolitical entanglements of the papacy, and

1212
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:47,560
he declines every time. And They've suggested multiple other professors

1213
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:50,560
that I've reached out to who also decline. Why will

1214
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,399
none of them debate me on the geopolitical history of

1215
01:22:53,399 --> 01:22:57,079
the papacy? Why do none of them talk about Gladiol?

1216
01:22:57,399 --> 01:23:01,960
Why why do none of them take on the unam

1217
01:23:02,079 --> 01:23:07,600
sanctum quisa's Hoderock argument? If this is also clear and

1218
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:09,920
so true, all you gotta do is de book my

1219
01:23:10,079 --> 01:23:14,000
arguments prove it right. Why don't they ignore it? Because

1220
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:16,880
they can't deal with it because they don't know and

1221
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:20,680
they don't have answers. How can you guys not see this?

1222
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:26,079
Why are you all still following these people? Taylor Marshall

1223
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:30,520
has over a million subscribers. He says Mary came to

1224
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,960
him and he saw her boobs. Are you insane? What

1225
01:23:34,039 --> 01:23:36,479
is wrong with you people? Why would you fall for that?

1226
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:42,920
You don't have any discernment to recognize delusion. Mary did

1227
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,560
not come to Taylor Marshall. I might as well call

1228
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:52,800
Taylor Swift Taylor Marshall Swift. That wasn't Mary talking about milkers.

1229
01:23:53,279 --> 01:23:58,720
That was Taylor Marshall milking you idiots who follow him.

1230
01:23:59,119 --> 01:24:01,479
Why do you think Taylor Marshall won't debate me. I've

1231
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,680
asked him for over ten years to do a debate

1232
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:06,720
and he just blocks me and ignores me. Why because

1233
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,880
it's a grift, dummies? Why do you Roman Celics have

1234
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:11,760
to be so stupid? Why do you have to fall

1235
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:12,680
for the grift.

1236
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,079
Speaker 12: In the household of God, which is the Church of

1237
01:24:20,119 --> 01:24:22,960
the Living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

1238
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,600
And of course Jesus himself, when founding his church, says

1239
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:30,159
to Peter in Matthew sixteen eighteen, and I tell you

1240
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:32,920
you are Peter, and on this rock I will build

1241
01:24:33,039 --> 01:24:36,199
my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail

1242
01:24:36,279 --> 01:24:36,920
against it.

1243
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:39,239
Speaker 13: I will give you the keys of the.

1244
01:24:39,239 --> 01:24:42,239
Speaker 12: Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall

1245
01:24:42,279 --> 01:24:45,119
be bound in Heaven. And whatever you loose on earth

1246
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,319
shall be loosed in heaven, Christ came to save the

1247
01:24:49,359 --> 01:24:53,319
world from sin and created a church to accomplish his mission.

1248
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:57,880
And to that church he has given authority, protection and

1249
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,000
power to do that which he he has predestined it

1250
01:25:01,039 --> 01:25:01,319
to do.

1251
01:25:02,319 --> 01:25:06,399
Speaker 8: And well, you can't type in uh, don't type in

1252
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,520
milkers because that you don't get the video that I

1253
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:13,520
thought you're gonna get. So let me find this over here,

1254
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:15,319
because I have to play for you the Taylor Marshall

1255
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:18,319
Milkers video. But if you type milkers into Twitter, you

1256
01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:21,760
get something else. Uh, let me find it this way.

1257
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:25,800
I have to play this for you because it's ridiculous.

1258
01:25:26,079 --> 01:25:32,520
I have it saved in my bookmarks over here. Let

1259
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:33,000
me find this.

1260
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,119
Speaker 11: No, I'll be like, oh, look, look what happens if

1261
01:25:38,119 --> 01:25:39,079
you tube in milkers.

1262
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:42,479
Speaker 8: Yeah, don't type that in. But at least they were

1263
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:46,119
all chunky. So we'll have to make this a half

1264
01:25:46,119 --> 01:25:58,720
and half stream. You can search your bookmarks now, okay, yeah,

1265
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:12,760
have like a million bookmarks, so let's search Taylor. Here

1266
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:21,399
we go, just a bit of a reminder for you.

1267
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:27,880
Is it true what I'm saying? Where did I get this?

1268
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:29,840
Let's see.

1269
01:26:31,199 --> 01:26:32,760
Speaker 13: See.

1270
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,520
Speaker 14: Well, I'm not a visionary and turning not a profit,

1271
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:41,079
but I have seen supernatural things in my life as

1272
01:26:41,079 --> 01:26:44,119
a Christian of a Catholic and one of those things

1273
01:26:44,159 --> 01:26:48,720
happened last night, and I'm reluctant to share it.

1274
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 8: But I think it'll be a comfort to other people.

1275
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,319
So yes to a confession.

1276
01:26:56,079 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 14: And one of the things I confessed was being prideful

1277
01:26:59,199 --> 01:27:02,880
and judgmental and worried and concerned about the state of

1278
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:09,560
the church and corruption in the church and scandals, and it's.

1279
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,199
Speaker 8: Been a kind of a struggle for me lately.

1280
01:27:11,279 --> 01:27:13,079
Speaker 14: So anyway, I confess that, and the priest had some

1281
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:16,319
very good things to counsel me on that. And later

1282
01:27:16,399 --> 01:27:19,640
that night, which was last night, I was doing examination

1283
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,880
of conscience before bed, and I was thinking on that

1284
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,359
point of being worried and concerned and judgmental and all

1285
01:27:27,399 --> 01:27:31,439
these negative thoughts and emotions about the Holy Catholic Church,

1286
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:35,239
Mother Church. And as I was suddenly like I saw

1287
01:27:35,279 --> 01:27:38,399
this beautiful woman. She had blonde hair, she was perfect,

1288
01:27:38,399 --> 01:27:41,840
no wrinkles, no spots, and I immediately discerned that this

1289
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:43,159
was Holy Mother of the Church.

1290
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 8: And she was writhing in pain.

1291
01:27:47,039 --> 01:27:49,159
Speaker 14: She was in a bed and there's sheets on her,

1292
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:52,640
and she was very sick. And I noticed that her

1293
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:58,560
breasts were engorged with milk, tons of milk, and there

1294
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:01,640
were babies and children crying out to her that were hungry,

1295
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,239
and she wanted to feed them, and she was upset,

1296
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:06,880
but she was so sick she could hardly sit up

1297
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:10,079
from her bed. And then I thought to myself, Oh,

1298
01:28:10,119 --> 01:28:13,159
she doesn't want she's poisoned. She doesn't want to nurse

1299
01:28:13,199 --> 01:28:16,199
the children because then she'll give them the poison.

1300
01:28:16,279 --> 01:28:17,720
Speaker 8: And then there was this voice.

1301
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:19,520
Speaker 14: It was like God or an angel, I don't know,

1302
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:24,760
and it said, no, the milk is still pure. And

1303
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:26,720
so I saw her there and all her beauty but

1304
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:32,119
so sick and struggling and loving those children, and seeing

1305
01:28:32,159 --> 01:28:37,439
her all that milk stored up there, and I realized

1306
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:43,479
that the sacramental graces, the dogma, the doctrine, the the.

1307
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,359
Speaker 8: Scuba had a damn dirty dream. That he's turning into

1308
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:51,319
a spiritual vision to milk all you idiots to follow him.

1309
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,319
It's kind of unreal, really, but I mean, I guess

1310
01:28:54,319 --> 01:28:56,600
this shows us the quality of the audience that we

1311
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:59,399
would get in the Taylor Marshalls sphere. I mean, imagine

1312
01:28:59,399 --> 01:29:03,239
believing that this dude is like your your ideological leader, right,

1313
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,439
a dude who literally takes dirty dreams about boobs and

1314
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:10,840
turns it into like spiritual, mystical, like prophetic words for

1315
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,560
the church. I mean, you can't make this up. And

1316
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:17,079
ra mccalics love that. They eat this stuff up, dude,

1317
01:29:17,159 --> 01:29:20,880
especially this Mariyan mystical nonsense. They eat it up, dude.

1318
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:24,680
In fact, they actually follow that more than anything else

1319
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:28,720
in fact. And so and ultimately what happens is when

1320
01:29:29,039 --> 01:29:31,640
Roman Catholics are presented with a lot of the theological

1321
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:34,800
dogmatic problems, what do they end up resorting to? They

1322
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:37,439
end up resorting to just marrying stuff. Well, Mary appeared,

1323
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:39,079
and you know, I don't care. I don't care about

1324
01:29:39,079 --> 01:29:43,680
the theology because Fatima Rosary that's all. That's it, That's

1325
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,479
what I got, and that's their kind of fallback. But

1326
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,520
eventually they realized this and this is most people who

1327
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:53,000
you know, have the Rmancaloic phase and then come out

1328
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:55,760
of it. I never really, I guess I did kind

1329
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:58,279
of retreat into the Maryan stuff maybe at one point

1330
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:00,319
when I was really struggling with a lot of these

1331
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:05,960
theological issues. But eventually you just kind of realized, like, well,

1332
01:30:06,039 --> 01:30:08,439
just praying the Rosary over and over and over is

1333
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:13,760
not actually solving my intellectual problems because I'm noticing big,

1334
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:18,840
huge contradictions and just suppressing it and acting like it's

1335
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,119
not there doesn't make it go away. Keeps popping up.

1336
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:25,560
He keeps popping up like Taylor Marshall's Privy member when

1337
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:30,520
he's having his dirty dreams. Right, So keep in mind,

1338
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:36,199
I didn't make this up. It's a classic here it is.

1339
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:41,039
Be sure and following me right there, and we'll open

1340
01:30:41,039 --> 01:30:42,439
it up in a second. We're almost done with this

1341
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:46,159
guy's video, just a few more minutes. It was pretty bad.

1342
01:30:46,199 --> 01:30:48,520
It's about what I expected, just super low tier stuff.

1343
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:50,239
He kind of surprised me for I thought he was

1344
01:30:50,239 --> 01:30:51,880
gonna get kind of kind of deep. When he starts

1345
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,399
talking about circular argument, it's like, Wow, maybe this is

1346
01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:58,560
gonna have some some meat and bones to it. No,

1347
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:03,319
it was as barren as his Novusorto backdrop that he had.

1348
01:31:03,399 --> 01:31:07,760
Looks his backdrop looks like every novusort of church behind

1349
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:08,960
their Masonic altar.

1350
01:31:09,079 --> 01:31:12,359
Speaker 12: Right household of God, according to Ephesians two twenty, is

1351
01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:15,479
the one that stands today, built on the foundation of

1352
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:18,760
the apostles, with Jesus Christ as the cornerstone, and as

1353
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,279
Matthew sixteen says, with Peter as the rock, that church

1354
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:27,479
is the Catholic Church. Now let's talk about reason. Is

1355
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:31,880
Catholicism reasonable? I know this is the most subjective aspect,

1356
01:31:32,399 --> 01:31:34,880
but sometimes we just have to ask ourselves does this

1357
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:38,399
make any sense? When I think about Christianity, there are

1358
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:42,399
two main narratives that explain its nature and origin. Jesus

1359
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:45,880
came to the world, lived and died, rose again, ascended

1360
01:31:46,039 --> 01:31:50,279
into heaven, and promised to return. Both narratives agree on this,

1361
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:53,680
but the question is how his mission and message were

1362
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:58,079
meant to be spread worldwide. One narrative says that God's

1363
01:31:58,399 --> 01:32:01,159
word in the Bible is the only infallible source of

1364
01:32:01,159 --> 01:32:04,520
authentic Christianity, and that the way we discover the faith

1365
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,199
is by reading and understanding the Bible. There can be

1366
01:32:07,239 --> 01:32:11,159
other sources of information, but the Bible alone gives us

1367
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:13,520
what we need to know about Christianity and how to

1368
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,439
live it. This is the narrative in which I was raised.

1369
01:32:17,159 --> 01:32:20,600
I know this narrative well. The problem with this narrative

1370
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,920
is that it doesn't answer some fundamental questions. By what

1371
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:27,399
authority do we know that the Bible is God's word,

1372
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,399
and even what it is, how do we account for

1373
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:31,119
the fast difference?

1374
01:32:31,279 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 8: Uh oh, now we're back to epistemic circles that he

1375
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:39,239
has not figured out. So remember this video was intended

1376
01:32:39,279 --> 01:32:46,119
to dispel the circular augmentation that supposedly Roman Catholics engage in.

1377
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:48,880
But now, in order to know that the Bible is

1378
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:53,359
the word of God, it requires another authority, namely the papacy.

1379
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,119
But remember he said at the beginning, the papacy is

1380
01:32:56,159 --> 01:32:58,840
not a circule circle. That's the Romancalllics says, is not

1381
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:02,000
a circle based on the Bible, but it is.

1382
01:33:03,239 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 13: This is an interpretation of the Bible by those who

1383
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:06,920
hold to this narrative.

1384
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,239
Speaker 12: Who gets to make the call when it comes to

1385
01:33:09,239 --> 01:33:10,239
differences of opinion.

1386
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:16,239
Speaker 8: But this is the common conflation once again, between existential

1387
01:33:16,399 --> 01:33:22,119
individual certitude and normative authority. Every Roman pop apologist falls

1388
01:33:22,159 --> 01:33:26,159
for this category error. It's a category error. It's not

1389
01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:30,159
a fallacy. It's more of a category error because at

1390
01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:32,159
the end of the day, everybody's in the same boat

1391
01:33:32,199 --> 01:33:36,039
when it comes to knowing or finding certitude on the

1392
01:33:36,039 --> 01:33:39,039
interpretation of this or that passage or whatever. In church

1393
01:33:39,079 --> 01:33:42,520
theology or whatever. We're all individually going to have to

1394
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,359
rely on in some way our own reasoning and reading

1395
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:50,079
of those documents that is not bypassed by positing the pope.

1396
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:54,640
All that does is move that problem, the individual epistemic

1397
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:58,760
certitude problem, back a step, because now an individual Catholic

1398
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:02,039
has to sift through all the papal documents and all

1399
01:34:02,079 --> 01:34:05,760
the councils and the encyclicals and on on and the

1400
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:10,840
Bible to interpret them properly. So you haven't solved the

1401
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:14,359
epistemic dilemma. You've moved the problem back a step and

1402
01:34:14,399 --> 01:34:17,800
said that the papacy solves it. But it begs the question, Well,

1403
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:21,319
that assumes I'm interpreting the papal claim statements and documents

1404
01:34:21,319 --> 01:34:26,479
and dogmas correctly. So you don't solve an epistemic problem

1405
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:31,000
with interpreting the texts by adding another external textual thing,

1406
01:34:31,199 --> 01:34:34,920
a bunch of papal documents. You see, it just adds

1407
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:38,399
to the problem. What he's talking about is what we

1408
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:42,279
call normative authority. That is, there some group within history

1409
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:46,560
that has the authority to bind people's consciences to an interpretation.

1410
01:34:47,239 --> 01:34:51,640
But that's a different category. Normative authority. That's an ethical thing.

1411
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:54,319
I mean, it relates to epistemology, but it's an ethical

1412
01:34:54,359 --> 01:34:59,840
domain versus the individual certitude about this or that passages interpretation.

1413
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:05,479
That's an epistemic issue. So every Roman Calariy pop apologist

1414
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:09,119
is only hurting their own case ultimately, even though they

1415
01:35:09,119 --> 01:35:12,479
don't see it right away by making this conflation between

1416
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:15,800
a category error two different categories. Does that make sense?

1417
01:35:17,399 --> 01:35:20,560
Speaker 12: Does it make sense that Jesus would expect his followers

1418
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:23,520
to know his mission in teaching through a book alone,

1419
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:27,600
especially one he never commanded anyone to write that wouldn't

1420
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:30,279
exist in its final form for hundreds of years?

1421
01:35:31,159 --> 01:35:32,159
Speaker 13: Now, what about the people who?

1422
01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 8: But that same question can be asked, does Jesus expect

1423
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,840
his followers to sift through tens of thousands of pages

1424
01:35:38,119 --> 01:35:41,479
of papal documents to know the faith? You just argue

1425
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,119
that the papacy and its documents are the thing that

1426
01:35:44,279 --> 01:35:46,960
is the key to know the faith. But you didn't

1427
01:35:47,039 --> 01:35:50,840
do anything except make the problem even bigger by tacking

1428
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:53,520
on tens of thousands of pages of more documents that

1429
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:54,479
you have to learn.

1430
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 12: Who lived before it was written and compiled? How did

1431
01:35:57,479 --> 01:36:57,640
they know what Christianity was how would future disputes about

1432
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:01,000
the Bible be settled? Does it make sense that Jesus

1433
01:37:01,039 --> 01:37:03,960
would do it this way, especially when the Bible is.

1434
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,640
Speaker 8: So Once again that didn't register. All I was saying

1435
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:09,920
is that I can easily refute this argument by saying,

1436
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:14,119
if the papacy is necessary in the magisterium, as you're saying,

1437
01:37:14,119 --> 01:37:17,720
which is the papacy to know the faith epistemically? I

1438
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:19,800
can easily refute this and show this to be a

1439
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:22,920
really stupid, low tier argument by pointing out that how

1440
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:24,960
did a Christian in the year three hundred know what

1441
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,680
the faith was who didn't have access to Rome and

1442
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:32,279
there's no ecumenical council yet there's not been a magisterial pronouncement.

1443
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:34,760
So did all the Christians in the first, second, and

1444
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:37,279
third century who didn't have access to Rome and had

1445
01:37:37,279 --> 01:37:40,159
not been in an ecumenical council, yet they didn't know

1446
01:37:40,239 --> 01:37:43,000
the faith? By this dumb argument, that's what he would

1447
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:47,279
have to say, because you can't know without the magisterium. Yet,

1448
01:37:47,319 --> 01:37:49,119
if I'm a Christian in the year three hundred in

1449
01:37:49,159 --> 01:37:51,479
Corinth I have no access to Rome, I don't know

1450
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:53,880
what they're up to. There's not been an ecumenical council yet,

1451
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:55,159
and I see as a few years away.

1452
01:37:56,279 --> 01:37:58,279
Speaker 11: How do I know the faith? I don't know. I

1453
01:37:58,319 --> 01:37:59,880
don't know until Rome pills us.

1454
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 8: This is so silly, it's such a bad argument. But

1455
01:38:03,279 --> 01:38:06,960
it's a bad argument that dupes millions of people. Millions

1456
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,600
of people fall for this super low tiered don Roman

1457
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:10,560
Catholic argument.

1458
01:38:13,199 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 13: Says otherwise.

1459
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 12: For example, in Matthew chapter eighteen, Jesus tells his followers

1460
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:21,399
to take their disputes that they can't settle to the church.

1461
01:38:22,079 --> 01:38:24,479
But how can this command be applied in the narrative

1462
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:28,039
that denies the existence of a visible church with authority

1463
01:38:28,359 --> 01:38:30,920
not to mention when looking at the history of the church,

1464
01:38:31,159 --> 01:38:32,960
it didn't function according.

1465
01:38:33,359 --> 01:38:37,640
Speaker 8: You notice that demonstrates the very thing I said. He

1466
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:44,039
conflated epistemic certitude with normative authority. So the passage he's

1467
01:38:44,079 --> 01:38:45,960
using in Matthew eighteen, which by the way, does not

1468
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:47,800
make it about Peter, It actually makes it about the

1469
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:51,039
whole college of the Apostles, is a passage dealing with

1470
01:38:51,239 --> 01:38:54,479
solving disputes in the church by the authority of the bishops,

1471
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:58,760
who can bind consciences. That's the Orthodox position. But remember

1472
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:01,119
he started this section of his video by saying that

1473
01:39:01,359 --> 01:39:05,479
the only way to have certainty about theological doctrines was

1474
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:10,239
with the magisterium. Well, then, how did a Christian in

1475
01:39:10,279 --> 01:39:14,239
the first, second, and third century, admittedly without any magisterium

1476
01:39:14,279 --> 01:39:15,880
or knowledge of what Rome was up to in the

1477
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:19,520
ancient world, there's no Council of Nicea. Yet, how did

1478
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:22,920
they know the doctrines? How did they know the truth?

1479
01:39:25,159 --> 01:39:28,399
Did they all just make a hodge pilgrimage to Rome?

1480
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:31,640
Was Rome the mecca that they all we have? We're

1481
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:33,039
going to allosk the pope with the faith?

1482
01:39:33,239 --> 01:39:33,279
Speaker 15: Was?

1483
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:37,239
Speaker 8: This is so ahistorical and stupid. Yet if his argument

1484
01:39:37,359 --> 01:39:40,600
is the case, he would have to say that the first, second,

1485
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:43,479
and third century Christians did not know the faith until

1486
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,119
Rome told them what the faith was. And I didn't

1487
01:39:46,119 --> 01:39:48,239
even know was an ecumenical council until Rome said, it's

1488
01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:51,279
an ecumenical council. Yet this guy is not at the

1489
01:39:51,279 --> 01:39:53,960
point yet where he's going to learn that Constantinople one

1490
01:39:54,439 --> 01:39:58,159
was called without Rome was still an ecumenical council accepted

1491
01:39:58,199 --> 01:40:02,239
as such, and retroact accepted by Rome a few centuries later,

1492
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:05,399
which disproves the whole Romancolic position and proves that they

1493
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:08,800
didn't think that they needed Rome to know the dogmas.

1494
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,239
Speaker 12: That narrative for over fifteen hundred years, and for the

1495
01:40:11,319 --> 01:40:14,279
vast majority of Christians in the world, it still doesn't.

1496
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:18,640
Does that seem reasonable? I don't think so. What does

1497
01:40:18,640 --> 01:40:22,119
seem reasonable is that Jesus gave his authority to his

1498
01:40:22,199 --> 01:40:26,039
apostles and founded a church that would, by his authority,

1499
01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:30,319
protection and power fulfill his mission to bring the Gospel

1500
01:40:30,359 --> 01:40:33,760
to the world. Through his church, the Bible was written

1501
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,680
and compiled, and through his church it is rightly taught

1502
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:40,960
and interpreted. Through his church, the world is evangelized. Through

1503
01:40:41,039 --> 01:40:44,479
his church, the fullness of truth is revealed. Even though

1504
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:48,039
its members are sinners. Jesus works in and through them

1505
01:40:48,079 --> 01:40:51,319
to accomplish his mission. This is the way things worked

1506
01:40:51,359 --> 01:40:53,840
when Jesus was on earth, and that was the way

1507
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:56,880
things were right at the beginning after he left, and

1508
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:58,039
this is how right.

1509
01:40:58,359 --> 01:41:00,640
Speaker 8: But none of that was Vatican won. And now he's

1510
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:04,119
trying to argue like it's identically the same communion and.

1511
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:07,119
Speaker 12: Structure things have continued to this day.

1512
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 8: Now wait a minute, in the middle of this video,

1513
01:41:09,039 --> 01:41:11,039
he said that there's a lot of things that are

1514
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:15,399
vastly different, which constitute doctrinal development. But now by the

1515
01:41:15,479 --> 01:41:17,279
end of the video, oh no, it's actually all the same.

1516
01:41:17,479 --> 01:41:22,680
It's basically like papacy functioning in the year one ten

1517
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:26,479
pretty much identically the same as papacy functioning in twenty

1518
01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:31,920
twenty four. Uh No, anybody who has a level two

1519
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:38,279
inductory induction to church history knows that by the Middle Ages,

1520
01:41:38,359 --> 01:41:42,640
when we've got Quisat's hotarock emperor Pope, that is not

1521
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:46,880
at all in continuity with the papacy in the time

1522
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:51,119
of you know, the persecutions of Diocletian or whatever, night

1523
01:41:51,199 --> 01:41:53,600
and day. And he already admitted this, because he admitted that,

1524
01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:55,600
Oh yeah, by the Middle Ages, it's like a vastly

1525
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:58,560
different structure. But that's just doctoral development, dude. But now

1526
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:01,439
it's not doctoral development, he said, it's all basically the same.

1527
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:09,560
So all a bunch of assertions, propaganda moving the goalpost, elasticity, ambiguity,

1528
01:42:11,039 --> 01:42:14,359
very little argumentation, maybe only a couple arguments here or

1529
01:42:14,399 --> 01:42:17,479
there throughout this video, with a couple of proof texts,

1530
01:42:18,079 --> 01:42:24,199
and yeah, just just super low tier assertions. That's that's

1531
01:42:24,199 --> 01:42:26,800
about what I expected. But this is the stuff that

1532
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:32,239
captures you know, a quarter million people, right, So this

1533
01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:35,000
is not that old of a video already been seen

1534
01:42:35,039 --> 01:42:38,119
by a quarter million people. And this is why, this

1535
01:42:38,159 --> 01:42:41,920
is why there's so much just repeating of bad arguments

1536
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:44,800
all the time. And the whole the second half of

1537
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:48,319
his video was that freaking stupid argument about the papac

1538
01:42:48,359 --> 01:42:51,680
He's going to give you certitude, which is a basic

1539
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:55,479
epistemic mistake. How is it going to give you certitude

1540
01:42:55,479 --> 01:42:59,720
when it's more documents to come through? Think about it.

1541
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,960
This is the Protestant Magisterium, so you only have to

1542
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:07,520
comb through what, however many pages? This is two thousand pages.

1543
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:10,279
So I got to come through two thousand pages of

1544
01:43:10,279 --> 01:43:12,560
this to make sense of the faith if I'm a Protestant.

1545
01:43:13,279 --> 01:43:15,159
But if I'm a Roman Catholic, you see, oh, the

1546
01:43:15,199 --> 01:43:18,560
papacy solves these things. Oh so now I got to read, however,

1547
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:21,920
many thousands of pages of papal documents to know the faith.

1548
01:43:24,479 --> 01:43:28,159
So it just taxed on more papers to read. How

1549
01:43:28,199 --> 01:43:30,520
does that put me in a better episemic position to

1550
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:35,199
know the faith? Because he literally said to have certitude,

1551
01:43:35,279 --> 01:43:37,439
you go to the pope and the magistian which has

1552
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:42,880
a giant, massive doctrines and documents and it is not true. Right,

1553
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:46,039
this is the parallel to Islam. Right when you get

1554
01:43:46,039 --> 01:43:49,159
into Islam, all the idiots on the internet falling for Islam.

1555
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 11: It's simple, you just got to believe a few things

1556
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:53,239
about God's one and then they realize, no, you got

1557
01:43:53,239 --> 01:43:57,600
to believe like giant sections, pages, thousands of pages of hadiths.

1558
01:43:58,199 --> 01:44:01,039
Speaker 8: That's also what you gotta believe. It's not just the Qur'an,

1559
01:44:02,439 --> 01:44:05,199
it's all this other junk, and it's full of stupid stuff.

1560
01:44:05,239 --> 01:44:07,840
Guess what, no different in Rome. It's not just a

1561
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:10,600
handful of ex cathed doctrines that you have to believe.

1562
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:17,479
Totally not true, pop basic bitch Catholic myth that you

1563
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:20,399
only have to believe a few ex cathed doctors. I

1564
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:22,199
don't even know where they come up with this, Like

1565
01:44:22,239 --> 01:44:25,640
who in the Roman Catholic world is telling them you

1566
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:28,039
only have to believe the exca theater statements. That is

1567
01:44:28,119 --> 01:44:32,399
just not even close to anything true in any Catholic theology.

1568
01:44:33,199 --> 01:44:37,159
Like even the Catholic Catechism is proposed as a totality

1569
01:44:37,199 --> 01:44:40,560
catechism for you to believe that you're supposed to believe

1570
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:44,640
in with docility in Catholic moral theology. It's just a

1571
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:48,600
total myth, akin to the myth of the idiot new

1572
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:51,399
converts to Islam who think I only have to believe

1573
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:57,079
a few things. Now totally not true. All right, we're

1574
01:44:57,079 --> 01:45:01,520
gonna open it up. We've seen enough of Catholic Scott

1575
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:04,880
Stap over here with his achy breaky heart video argument

1576
01:45:05,560 --> 01:45:08,680
don't tell my hort my achy breaking prost and hort

1577
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,560
a news don't thank you don By the way, he

1578
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:14,560
literally looks like he looks like a cross between Billy

1579
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,960
Ray and Scott Stap We're gonna open it up. I

1580
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:20,039
want to hear your best arguments. It is not restricted

1581
01:45:20,039 --> 01:45:20,880
to Catholicism.

1582
01:45:21,279 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 11: Uh.

1583
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 8: That video just popped up, and it triggered me. I'm triggered,

1584
01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:27,520
like triggering pop ever. Hear it triggered me. I started shaking.

1585
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:32,439
I could have I couldn't handle it. I had to reply.

1586
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:36,760
And by the way, after my fourth espresso, I'm lit, boy,

1587
01:45:36,880 --> 01:45:43,039
I'm hyped up. We started off straight up evening MPR radio.

1588
01:45:43,159 --> 01:45:46,199
I was cool, calm and collected, buddy. But now I'm

1589
01:45:46,199 --> 01:45:49,840
going I'm gone insane. I'm like off the hook. I'm sweating.

1590
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:53,000
It's hot in here. I'm ready to get down and

1591
01:45:53,159 --> 01:45:57,359
dirty baby with debate. Not what you pers are thinking.

1592
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:00,760
We're gonna open it up open for him. I apologize

1593
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:04,960
for subjecting you to that nonsense from Taylor Marshall, but

1594
01:46:05,039 --> 01:46:08,239
we always have to revisit this because, I mean, a

1595
01:46:08,319 --> 01:46:12,439
million people plus follow this goofball and he's literally like

1596
01:46:12,439 --> 01:46:16,800
a four foot goofball. I'm just kind of amazed, like

1597
01:46:16,920 --> 01:46:22,760
people can't. These people don't have discernment, Vain, what's up?

1598
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:28,399
It's not restricted to Catholson. By the way, if you

1599
01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:30,399
want to come with your atheist arguments, you want to

1600
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:41,680
come with your Protestant, Calvinist, Muslim, Hebrew Roots, Judaism, whatever else, Mormons, Black, Heeber, Israelites.

1601
01:46:42,279 --> 01:46:45,399
It's all on the table. Bring it, bring it, come,

1602
01:46:45,479 --> 01:46:48,279
smash me, refute me. I'm so eager, I'm so ready

1603
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:53,000
to be defeated. Please put me in my place, Vain,

1604
01:46:53,039 --> 01:46:53,319
I'm you.

1605
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:55,960
Speaker 16: Deal.

1606
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:56,560
Speaker 8: What's up? Man?

1607
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:56,680
Speaker 14: So?

1608
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:04,680
Speaker 17: When arguing tag right, if saying denying God makes knowledge

1609
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:05,640
claims impossible?

1610
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 8: Right?

1611
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:07,239
Speaker 18: So when atheist asked.

1612
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:10,319
Speaker 17: Me, well, well then what is it about a different

1613
01:47:10,399 --> 01:47:13,520
theistic belief such as Calvinism, for example, that would make

1614
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:16,560
knowledge impossible. Like would that be related at all to

1615
01:47:16,680 --> 01:47:19,359
like problems with the Trinity theology?

1616
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, So, like if you did want to apply Calvinism

1617
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:26,199
tagged to Calvinism, it's a little more challenging because you

1618
01:47:26,359 --> 01:47:29,479
have to know a lot more about Orthodox metaphysics and

1619
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:33,319
Trinitarian structures of the world. But it's not impossible. But

1620
01:47:33,359 --> 01:47:35,039
I would just say something like, you know, if the

1621
01:47:35,079 --> 01:47:38,239
Calvinists model of absolute divine simplicity is true, then Calvinists

1622
01:47:38,279 --> 01:47:42,960
are subjected to modal collapse, which makes God unknowable. So

1623
01:47:43,239 --> 01:47:45,479
right there, there's no God that you could know in

1624
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:49,560
that system if you're consistent with their version of absolute

1625
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:52,119
divine simplicity, which they do hold. Calvin is very explicit

1626
01:47:52,119 --> 01:47:55,560
about that. It's identical to Augustine's view that would undo

1627
01:47:55,640 --> 01:48:03,079
the possibility of knowledge. All right, thanks, and was it?

1628
01:48:03,119 --> 01:48:04,680
Speaker 17: I don't know if if I got this quote correct,

1629
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:07,239
but but I think father Deacon and I said in

1630
01:48:07,399 --> 01:48:10,199
a or a video will listen to youill before he

1631
01:48:10,199 --> 01:48:14,439
said that Orthodoxy is in a privileged position in terms

1632
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:16,840
of being able to justify knowledge claims.

1633
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:19,439
Speaker 18: Is that the correct way to say.

1634
01:48:19,239 --> 01:48:22,279
Speaker 8: That, right, And the reason he's saying quote, privileged position

1635
01:48:22,399 --> 01:48:25,920
is because in our argument, in our view, we have

1636
01:48:26,039 --> 01:48:29,439
a Gods eye perspective, so in others, we're not subject

1637
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:34,800
to the problems of secular epistemology, where in their perspectives

1638
01:48:34,880 --> 01:48:37,199
or an atheist epistemology, they're always going to be restricted

1639
01:48:37,239 --> 01:48:42,079
to the individual, finite empiricist perspective, so they don't have

1640
01:48:42,119 --> 01:48:44,880
any access to anything outside of their mind ultimately, right,

1641
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:47,439
because they're not theists. There's no transcendent realm, et cetera.

1642
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:51,319
So they're restricted to their own individual sense data experience, right,

1643
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:56,640
and that immediately boxes them into a lot of problems

1644
01:48:56,680 --> 01:49:01,319
for explaining anything at all in terms of knowledge claims, metaphysics,

1645
01:49:01,359 --> 01:49:04,079
external world identity, over time, et cetera, et cetera. So

1646
01:49:05,079 --> 01:49:06,960
that's what he means is that we're in a privileged

1647
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:11,680
position because our position is not grounded or starting with

1648
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:17,600
individual sense data. The position comes from divine revelation, so

1649
01:49:17,640 --> 01:49:20,399
we have a God's eye perspective. And if you want

1650
01:49:20,399 --> 01:49:25,039
the specifics, that would mean that orthodox metaphysics, for example,

1651
01:49:25,079 --> 01:49:30,600
would not be subjected to the bootstrapping problem, but pretty

1652
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:33,760
much every atheist would have to have some kind of

1653
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:38,560
way to try to tackle the bootstrapping dilemma.

1654
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:41,640
Speaker 18: Merry Christmas.

1655
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:44,039
Speaker 8: I appreciate Hey, Merry Christmas. Do you thank you so much?

1656
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:48,920
Speaker 11: I don't want to wait in vain for your love.

1657
01:49:49,560 --> 01:49:52,920
Speaker 8: It's a little bit of Bob Marley and any lenox

1658
01:49:53,000 --> 01:50:03,800
for you there, vain California Prepper. What's up? Thank you

1659
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:05,880
guys for being so generous tonight, Merry Christmas? Do you

1660
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:07,800
all happy? Debate?

1661
01:50:08,279 --> 01:50:08,600
Speaker 9: Married?

1662
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:09,399
Speaker 11: Debate? Miss?

1663
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:10,920
Speaker 9: Oh?

1664
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 11: Married debate?

1665
01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:17,079
Speaker 8: Miss and may you have a logical Christmas? Go ahead?

1666
01:50:17,279 --> 01:50:17,600
I'm you.

1667
01:50:19,159 --> 01:50:19,359
Speaker 11: Hey.

1668
01:50:19,399 --> 01:50:23,039
Speaker 19: I had a question, uh for relating to like circular reasons.

1669
01:50:23,279 --> 01:50:24,800
Speaker 8: So one of my family.

1670
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:28,479
Speaker 19: Members said something along the lines of, like the Orthodox

1671
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:31,199
and Catholic Church, they just introduced like the Book of

1672
01:50:31,239 --> 01:50:34,359
Matthew into the cannon just because it said so along

1673
01:50:34,399 --> 01:50:36,479
the lines of like gase of Helena are favail against

1674
01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:38,039
the church, so they put that in there so that

1675
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:39,439
they could.

1676
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:42,600
Speaker 18: Self certify themselves. How would I respond to.

1677
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:47,359
Speaker 8: This that type of argument, Well, the basis for accepting

1678
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:55,079
Matthew is a long like episcopacy or see relative exercise.

1679
01:50:55,119 --> 01:50:58,159
In other words, it wasn't like a bunch of bishops

1680
01:50:58,159 --> 01:51:01,840
came together and said, let's put in the Gospel of

1681
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,239
Matthew that the gates of Hell can prevail against the Church.

1682
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:07,359
I mean, the Gospel of Matthew, like the other Gospels,

1683
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:13,119
is part of a long historical textual tradition that had

1684
01:51:13,159 --> 01:51:17,520
to be analyzed from all the different bishoprics that had

1685
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:21,399
Gospels of Matthew to compare them and to see, okay,

1686
01:51:21,439 --> 01:51:25,279
there is unanimity. There is a lot of commonality. It's

1687
01:51:25,399 --> 01:51:28,800
usually like ninety five to ninety eight percent commonality amongst

1688
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:32,600
various textual traditions. They're very minor differences that relate to

1689
01:51:33,279 --> 01:51:38,720
translations of like grammatical errors or number mistakes here and there.

1690
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:42,520
They're called scribal errors. But I'm not aware of any

1691
01:51:43,119 --> 01:51:47,439
like reputable historical textual scholar who thinks that there was

1692
01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:50,439
some conspiracy to insert, you know, the gates of Hell

1693
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:53,960
won't prevail. I think that one way to see that,

1694
01:51:54,079 --> 01:51:59,479
if you wanted like an easy disprover of that, or

1695
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:02,079
way to disc prove that, would be to look up

1696
01:52:03,119 --> 01:52:07,520
all the patriistic citations of Matthew sixteen eighteen across like

1697
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:13,439
various traditions or various centuries. So for example, if you

1698
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:18,079
have you'urinas citing it early, if you've got Cyprian citing

1699
01:52:18,079 --> 01:52:22,439
it early. If you've got Jerome Tratullian, if you've got

1700
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:26,920
origin all of whom I assume, cite Matthew sixteen eighteen.

1701
01:52:26,960 --> 01:52:28,720
And if you get the Denny book, he'll he'll list

1702
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:33,720
a bunch of these. You'll notice that there's commonality in

1703
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:39,079
other cities across the Empire, which suggests that there was

1704
01:52:39,159 --> 01:52:42,760
not some late conspiracy to add the text. Does that

1705
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:48,960
make sense, yep, it does. Thanks also the decision about

1706
01:52:49,119 --> 01:52:52,520
canonicity for even things like Matthew and all that. I mean,

1707
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,159
it's pretty I would say by the fourth and fifth

1708
01:52:55,199 --> 01:52:57,199
century there's not a whole letter dispute that I'm aware

1709
01:52:57,199 --> 01:53:00,920
of about the Gospels themselves. The Gospel of John actually

1710
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:08,800
was somewhat doubted and disputed beyond the synoptics. And but

1711
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:12,560
I don't think by like the time of Athenacious or

1712
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:15,119
after Athenacious, like there's not a whole lot of debate

1713
01:53:15,199 --> 01:53:19,680
on the Gospels. It's more so the dispute is the

1714
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:23,960
Catholic epistles, and you know, due to canonical texts. So

1715
01:53:24,199 --> 01:53:28,199
most of the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh century debates and

1716
01:53:28,279 --> 01:53:33,239
questions about canonicity are like the Catholic Epistles and the

1717
01:53:33,239 --> 01:53:36,479
Book of Revelation, perhaps even though Athenasio is pretty much

1718
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:48,680
convinced Rome to include it. Heath, what's up, Heath, Bar,

1719
01:53:48,800 --> 01:53:57,760
what's up? I'm you dude, Hey, Jay, Hey, going, what's up?

1720
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:02,640
Speaker 18: I'm just going to question about Peter and the Catholic Church.

1721
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:05,720
Speaker 15: Is there any proof that is there any proof at

1722
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:08,439
all that Peter was actually in Rome, like the Catholic

1723
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:10,159
Church claim, unlike Paul.

1724
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 8: I think it is a valid tradition. Yeah, I think that,

1725
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:18,199
you know, the Orthodox Church does accept the tradition that

1726
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:22,079
Rome is a doubly Apostolic see the see of Peter

1727
01:54:22,159 --> 01:54:24,880
and Paul. So yes, I would say it is a

1728
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:27,880
valid tradition. But I don't think that Peter being in Rome,

1729
01:54:28,039 --> 01:54:31,079
or dying in Rome in any way somehow contributes to

1730
01:54:32,039 --> 01:54:35,840
the special terrorism and claims a Vatican one. I mean,

1731
01:54:36,479 --> 01:54:38,720
when you when you really ask them, why does Rome

1732
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,199
get it? But not Alexander Antioch, It's like, well, he

1733
01:54:41,279 --> 01:54:44,720
died there, Okay, Well why does him dying there contribute

1734
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:49,399
this vast you know, power and authority that we don't

1735
01:54:49,439 --> 01:54:51,359
really see elucidated until very late.

1736
01:54:54,039 --> 01:54:56,159
Speaker 15: Yeah, because I just seem to use that scripture with

1737
01:54:56,279 --> 01:54:59,560
the Keys to the Kingdom with Peter and relate everything around,

1738
01:55:00,399 --> 01:55:04,159
just to centralize everything. But really it was Paul who

1739
01:55:04,199 --> 01:55:06,479
had more authority in Roman was preaching to the James

1740
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:10,199
Tarlsien rhyme. So if anything, he should have more authority

1741
01:55:10,239 --> 01:55:11,920
in relation to being at the say.

1742
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:14,880
Speaker 8: Of Yeah, I actually I actually agree with that. I

1743
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:20,560
mean yeah, I mean I think theologically speaking, I mean

1744
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:23,680
it's Paul, that's the quote star of the New Testament, right,

1745
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:27,960
I mean he rebukes Peter and Peter's wrong. So it's like,

1746
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:32,920
you know, just just basic stuff still kind of I

1747
01:55:32,920 --> 01:55:37,800
think undermines what the Roman position develops into. And this

1748
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:41,840
is a key thing to understand, Like the Roman Catholic

1749
01:55:42,359 --> 01:55:47,359
Advanced Medieval, late Medieval position, it takes a long time

1750
01:55:47,399 --> 01:55:51,720
for that to develop. It's an evolution and it doesn't

1751
01:55:52,399 --> 01:55:58,279
start with Peter or Victor or Damasis. You know. It's

1752
01:55:58,279 --> 01:56:01,760
like it's a thing that builds on a legitimate tradition

1753
01:56:02,399 --> 01:56:06,800
that becomes insane. Lo fi, what's up?

1754
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:07,000
Speaker 2: Man?

1755
01:56:11,479 --> 01:56:11,640
Speaker 9: Kai?

1756
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:12,319
Speaker 8: Do you hear me?

1757
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:15,039
Speaker 18: Yeah?

1758
01:56:15,199 --> 01:56:17,520
Speaker 20: I want to ask you a bit of a stupid question,

1759
01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:22,119
but do you think that most of the Catholic apologetics

1760
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:26,479
are dishonest, because from my point of view, it's like

1761
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:30,359
impossible to prove their points because the new documents like

1762
01:56:30,479 --> 01:56:34,640
Alexandria or Kiti literally say that the Orthodox are rights

1763
01:56:35,199 --> 01:56:37,199
and all the other points.

1764
01:56:37,239 --> 01:56:38,840
Speaker 8: Like when I saw.

1765
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:42,479
Speaker 20: You, would you petrust debate, it seemed pretty obvious for me,

1766
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:44,840
What do you say about that?

1767
01:56:48,239 --> 01:56:51,439
Speaker 8: I think, so when it comes to a lot of

1768
01:56:51,439 --> 01:56:57,800
the Catholic apologists, I mean, unless they openly demonstrate outright dishonesty,

1769
01:56:58,479 --> 01:57:00,720
I don't know if I would say they're now necessarily

1770
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:03,479
being dishonest. I think some of them are. I think

1771
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:09,720
Lofton is, but I think typically rather than I mean,

1772
01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:11,560
maybe there are some cases. I don't watch a whole

1773
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:14,720
lot of their content because you got to understand that

1774
01:57:14,840 --> 01:57:19,119
like today's Roman Catholic online paup apologists, they're really not

1775
01:57:19,199 --> 01:57:23,079
any different than the paup apologists from twenty years ago

1776
01:57:23,119 --> 01:57:27,119
that I was first introduced to Rome through. So like

1777
01:57:27,199 --> 01:57:32,359
the Peter Kreeft and the Scott Hawns and the Stephen

1778
01:57:32,439 --> 01:57:41,640
Ray and the Jerry Mattoitics Jimmy Aiken. I'm trying to

1779
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:44,239
think of all the apologists of twenty years ago that

1780
01:57:44,279 --> 01:57:47,920
everybody knew in two thousand and three four, like that

1781
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:52,479
whole class of guys, like they were saying the exact

1782
01:57:52,479 --> 01:57:55,880
same stuff that today's pap apologists say. I mean, the

1783
01:57:56,000 --> 01:58:01,239
Roman sphere of apologetics doesn't get any more sophisticated than

1784
01:58:01,279 --> 01:58:04,279
all the same stuff you hear them saying today. And

1785
01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:08,520
I mean, Ibarra might be a quote mind collector beyond

1786
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:10,640
what the previous guys have done, because I guess his

1787
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,960
book is like eight hundred pages of quote minds, and

1788
01:58:14,399 --> 01:58:16,560
you know, eight hundred pages of quote minds? How good

1789
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:19,239
did that? How did he fare when UBI just asked him, well,

1790
01:58:19,279 --> 01:58:20,279
what about Virgilius?

1791
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:23,760
Speaker 11: Well, I ain't got a sufficient inswer to that yet,

1792
01:58:23,840 --> 01:58:26,199
so I'm not going to see so.

1793
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:30,800
Speaker 8: What did it do? And again like I'm not. I mean,

1794
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:33,640
they literally don't say anything different than they said twenty

1795
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:38,520
years ago. So are they being dishonest? Probably to a degree,

1796
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:44,520
because I think after many years, the more you're exposed

1797
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:49,000
to things and challenges and issues at a certain point,

1798
01:58:49,119 --> 01:58:54,560
Yet it does take dishonesty. But you know, I guess

1799
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:59,680
that's for them to in their own consciences to sort out,

1800
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:03,840
because like you, Meg could get away with this on

1801
01:59:03,880 --> 01:59:09,279
the in the public sphere with duping people. But like inside,

1802
01:59:09,359 --> 01:59:12,359
in the inner conscience and in their inner heart their news,

1803
01:59:12,439 --> 01:59:14,840
they know they're not being honest with themselves. They know

1804
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:18,239
that they're coming up with stuff to might to make

1805
01:59:18,279 --> 01:59:25,239
it work. I mean, just think of when Trent said,

1806
01:59:26,039 --> 01:59:28,479
Think of when Trent admitted that it does look like

1807
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:31,199
France is saying that the death penalty is against the gospel.

1808
01:59:31,279 --> 01:59:34,039
Is a change in Caltholic morals and theology? Yeah, because

1809
01:59:34,079 --> 01:59:35,760
it is? And what did he say to answer it?

1810
01:59:36,239 --> 01:59:38,760
But there's about three or four different ways that you

1811
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:41,720
could come up with to explain it. Come up with

1812
01:59:43,319 --> 01:59:46,399
so are we just system building and it's a big

1813
01:59:46,479 --> 01:59:51,359
unfalsifiable thing. So yeah, I mean, I'm gonna say that

1814
01:59:52,359 --> 01:59:56,439
I know that Lofton operates in a dishonest, snaky way.

1815
01:59:59,119 --> 02:00:03,840
I've never seen be openly dishonest. Although I mean to

1816
02:00:04,359 --> 02:00:07,720
double down on the fact that Triad is not a

1817
02:00:07,960 --> 02:00:12,159
the triad, it's a term that means anti trinitarianism. I mean,

1818
02:00:12,159 --> 02:00:14,920
it's just false and it really shows that Trend has

1819
02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:18,079
no idea what the Eastern tradition is on the Trinity,

1820
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:20,960
not interested in any of that. I mean to go,

1821
02:00:21,359 --> 02:00:24,000
why be involved in any of that when you can

1822
02:00:24,079 --> 02:00:27,199
do a pop Roman Catholic video that gets two hundred

1823
02:00:27,199 --> 02:00:29,920
and fifty thousand views. So why deal with the actual

1824
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:36,359
challenges from somebody like myself or UBI? When like there's

1825
02:00:36,399 --> 02:00:39,720
a giant market you can become a tailor Marshall and

1826
02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:42,840
get a million followers and talk about your you know,

1827
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:47,520
your wet dreams or somehow special revelations from Mary. I

1828
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:50,439
mean there's a million idiots that are ready to fall

1829
02:00:50,479 --> 02:00:54,199
for that. Do those million idiots want to talk about

1830
02:00:54,199 --> 02:00:57,840
the Alexander document? No, So maybe you're right, maybe it

1831
02:00:57,880 --> 02:01:12,600
actually has a lot of dishonesty. That's what's up? You're there?

1832
02:01:12,640 --> 02:01:12,960
What's something?

1833
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:13,079
Speaker 19: Man?

1834
02:01:14,479 --> 02:01:15,199
Speaker 21: Hey can you hear me?

1835
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:17,000
Speaker 16: Hey?

1836
02:01:17,239 --> 02:01:19,600
Speaker 22: Thank you for taking my call. So I have two

1837
02:01:19,600 --> 02:01:23,479
things I want to ask or get your opinion on. So,

1838
02:01:24,439 --> 02:01:27,640
like if I'm a Protestant, I'm not a Protestant, I'm

1839
02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:28,319
an Orthodox.

1840
02:01:28,359 --> 02:01:33,319
Speaker 21: But from a Protestant perspective, when when they're spending time

1841
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:39,119
trying to refute I guess normative authority the Orthodox Church,

1842
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:42,279
or even I guess the Roman Catholic Church for that matter,

1843
02:01:42,720 --> 02:01:47,199
when they're when they're doing this, and some of them

1844
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:50,880
would make the assertion and say, uh, well, no church

1845
02:01:51,359 --> 02:01:56,720
tradition has it all correct, aren't they, essentially, in your opinion,

1846
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:58,560
refuting Christianity in general.

1847
02:02:00,279 --> 02:02:04,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's an ambiguous phrase because what does that mean.

1848
02:02:04,439 --> 02:02:07,720
I mean, does that mean that no church tradition knows

1849
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:11,720
everything or expresses everything exhaustively perfectly? I mean that could

1850
02:02:11,720 --> 02:02:14,359
mean a lot of different things. But it could also

1851
02:02:14,399 --> 02:02:19,880
be interpreted to mean that church's dogmas contradict. So it's

1852
02:02:19,960 --> 02:02:22,680
just an ambiguous phrase that would require I think, some

1853
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:27,279
degree of specificity to understand exactly what they mean. But

1854
02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:31,560
if they mean dogmatically, then yeah, that would undermine the

1855
02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:33,479
promise that the church could not fail.

1856
02:02:35,000 --> 02:02:37,359
Speaker 21: Awesome, and I appreciate that. And the next thing I

1857
02:02:37,399 --> 02:02:40,279
wanted to ask real quick. You were speaking about the

1858
02:02:40,439 --> 02:02:44,560
G eighty document earlier, and I was looking it up

1859
02:02:44,600 --> 02:02:47,399
and I did just a little bit of reading on it,

1860
02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:51,000
and it seems like, Okay, I don't know how much

1861
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:54,600
involvement did the Pope have with this document, because couldn't

1862
02:02:54,600 --> 02:02:57,880
the Catholic just say, well, this is just you know,

1863
02:02:58,600 --> 02:02:59,920
this is not really dogmatic.

1864
02:03:00,920 --> 02:03:04,920
Speaker 8: Well it doesn't matter. But the dogmatic or non dogmatic

1865
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:07,800
status of this document doesn't matter, because these are the

1866
02:03:07,880 --> 02:03:11,840
Vatican's own theological commissions. So what that means is that

1867
02:03:11,880 --> 02:03:14,640
these are published with the approval of the Vatican. They're

1868
02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:18,840
on Vatican websites. Christianity dot v a is a Vatican website,

1869
02:03:18,840 --> 02:03:23,399
so it's it is a tacit implicit approval, And so

1870
02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:25,039
the Pope doesn't have to come out and say I

1871
02:03:25,119 --> 02:03:29,680
dogmatically state that ady is, you know, in accord with

1872
02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:32,880
the dogma. It doesn't have to because in Roman Callic theology,

1873
02:03:33,119 --> 02:03:37,000
the pope cannot teach error. So if this is a

1874
02:03:37,119 --> 02:03:43,560
Vatican approved document, this is a Vatican okay position, you see,

1875
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:48,600
this is a Vatican synom this is a Vatican commission.

1876
02:03:49,199 --> 02:03:51,800
So no point is that it doesn't matter about whether

1877
02:03:51,800 --> 02:03:55,640
it's dogmatic or not. That's a deflection from the issue

1878
02:03:55,680 --> 02:03:59,920
of defectibility and indefectibility, because if this document is an error,

1879
02:04:00,239 --> 02:04:04,119
then why does the pope have on his website massive

1880
02:04:04,199 --> 02:04:05,159
theological error.

1881
02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:07,640
Speaker 11: It makes.

1882
02:04:09,479 --> 02:04:09,640
Speaker 18: Time.

1883
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:11,840
Speaker 8: But no, that's actually a really important point because a

1884
02:04:11,840 --> 02:04:14,840
lot of rom Meanchaolics will deflect into the status of

1885
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:17,720
the document, which has absolutely nothing to do with whether

1886
02:04:17,760 --> 02:04:22,279
it's heretical or not. Just like in as Abara admitted,

1887
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:26,000
do you guys, remember you. Barro admits that Honorius is

1888
02:04:26,399 --> 02:04:31,640
excommunicated for a letter that he wrote to somebody about monothelitism.

1889
02:04:33,279 --> 02:04:36,159
Did he make the letter dogmatic? No, a pope's letter

1890
02:04:36,199 --> 02:04:39,199
to one person is not dogmatic, but the letter preaching

1891
02:04:39,439 --> 02:04:43,640
monothelitism was enough to get him ex communicating, condemned. Ibarra

1892
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:48,479
admits that they're top guy now on the pope. What

1893
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:51,800
does that demonstrate? It demonstrates the point of making right

1894
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:54,439
now that the status of the document has nothing to

1895
02:04:54,479 --> 02:04:58,159
do with whether it's heretical or not. So it doesn't matter,

1896
02:04:58,680 --> 02:05:02,920
because this means that the the Vatican is promoting theological

1897
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:05,520
error on a mass scale to the entire Orthodox world

1898
02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:07,119
and to the rest of the world. That you can

1899
02:05:07,159 --> 02:05:12,000
believe and accept these theological principles now, and they're no

1900
02:05:12,079 --> 02:05:15,600
different really than what stuff was already in Benedict's books.

1901
02:05:16,439 --> 02:05:18,159
So if they're going to say, oh, it's not it's

1902
02:05:18,199 --> 02:05:20,520
not really, it doesn't matter. Even if it's heresy doesn't count.

1903
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 18: Well.

1904
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:23,079
Speaker 8: Benedict wrote the same types of stuff in his books.

1905
02:05:23,079 --> 02:05:27,720
He says that the Orthodox shouldn't be expected to accept

1906
02:05:27,760 --> 02:05:29,319
any more than what was the case in the first

1907
02:05:29,399 --> 02:05:32,520
thousand years of Christianity and the Orthodox have maintained the

1908
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,079
faith without the papers of the last thus year weld.

1909
02:05:35,119 --> 02:05:36,680
I mean, that's all the same types of stuff in

1910
02:05:36,720 --> 02:05:40,920
this So they love to deflect into a topic that

1911
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:43,680
has nothing to do with whether the document is heretical

1912
02:05:43,760 --> 02:05:49,960
or not, because again, if it's heretical, the pope's dogmatic

1913
02:05:50,159 --> 02:05:53,119
pronouncement of the document has nothing to do with whether

1914
02:05:53,159 --> 02:05:57,920
it's heretical or not. You can be a heretic without

1915
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:04,960
making it mandatory. Martin Luther had no dogmatic authority behind

1916
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:08,399
his documents when the Roman Catholic Church excommunicated him as

1917
02:06:08,399 --> 02:06:12,039
a heretic. But Romancalthers are so stupid and so goofy

1918
02:06:12,199 --> 02:06:14,600
when they try to make the system work that they

1919
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:18,600
will actually end up literally saying that no, it has

1920
02:06:18,680 --> 02:06:22,760
to be dogmatically pronounced for it to be heretical and rejected.

1921
02:06:23,159 --> 02:06:28,520
What I'm not joking like, they'll actually say that you

1922
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:31,840
only like, it only counts if the pope binds you,

1923
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:33,479
and then it would be something that we'd have to

1924
02:06:33,479 --> 02:06:35,720
worry with. But I'm not bound by this document. Well

1925
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,720
that's not even true. This is another tried myth that

1926
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:41,560
you only have to believe what's ex cathedral. That's not true.

1927
02:06:42,079 --> 02:06:44,520
It's just a total myth that they make up. I

1928
02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:46,600
don't even know where they get it. It's like maybe

1929
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:49,199
some pop apologists says this and they just repeat it

1930
02:06:49,760 --> 02:06:52,520
like a bunch of you know, twitter yapping birds or

1931
02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:54,920
something like. But that's not to mina birds. That's not true,

1932
02:06:55,359 --> 02:06:57,800
like it's been that's actually been condemned four times by

1933
02:06:57,840 --> 02:06:59,960
the Vatican. That you only have to believe the ex cathedra.

1934
02:07:00,520 --> 02:07:21,760
That's just stupid. It's not true. Noah, sincere hypocrypt five dollars.

1935
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:23,720
One of the copes that I see from Roman Catholics

1936
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:27,159
is that we've had many bad popes. Have nothing to

1937
02:07:27,199 --> 02:07:31,520
do with whether or not popes are teaching heresy and error,

1938
02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:35,880
so they're always deflecting into morally bad popes. That has

1939
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:39,399
nothing to do with whether popes are teaching theological error,

1940
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:45,159
so they're again throwing up confusion and smoke and mirrors

1941
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:48,640
because the question is not whether there are bad popes

1942
02:07:49,119 --> 02:07:54,319
or does a morally bad pope invalidate the Roman Catholic system.

1943
02:07:54,479 --> 02:07:59,000
It's about theological error, which would mean that the Roman

1944
02:07:59,199 --> 02:08:03,159
see t taches error and thus contradicts Vatican one's claims.

1945
02:08:03,680 --> 02:08:07,520
So no, it's not about popes having you know, prostitutes.

1946
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:09,960
We all know that, we know Alexander the six had

1947
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:13,399
a tunnel to the hoe house next door. Nobody's arguing

1948
02:08:13,439 --> 02:08:17,119
that a bad pope is what invalidates the system, because

1949
02:08:17,119 --> 02:08:20,359
there's countless, i'm sure, evil Orthodox bishops in the history

1950
02:08:20,359 --> 02:08:22,079
of the church. So what that's not the argument, it's

1951
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:25,399
another deflection. The point is that in the Roman Catholic

1952
02:08:25,479 --> 02:08:32,000
system you cannot have popes theologically teaching error on faith

1953
02:08:32,079 --> 02:08:36,359
and morals. That's the point, because that invalidates the system.

1954
02:08:36,479 --> 02:08:39,479
That's why we're pointing out that the status of this

1955
02:08:39,600 --> 02:08:43,000
document has nothing to do with whether the document is

1956
02:08:43,439 --> 02:08:48,000
teaching error and approved by Rome, because it is in

1957
02:08:48,039 --> 02:09:07,279
the Roman system. Warren, what's up, warreng g I'm mute,

1958
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:12,359
I'm mute.

1959
02:09:12,399 --> 02:09:17,880
Speaker 10: Warren, Okay, I just wanted to ask you about why

1960
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:19,159
government should exist.

1961
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:24,880
Speaker 18: So, the Paternians believe in no government. So how do

1962
02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:29,439
you prove that the government is necessary?

1963
02:09:31,039 --> 02:09:34,119
Speaker 8: Well, if you even if you believe in nap and

1964
02:09:34,199 --> 02:09:38,479
everything being privatized, you're still going to get a government.

1965
02:09:38,119 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 18: Right, So how we define a government?

1966
02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:52,359
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, if we're living on an island full

1967
02:09:52,359 --> 02:09:58,000
of libertarians and everybody voluntarily agrees to a private security

1968
02:09:58,159 --> 02:10:04,199
firm running the islands h law enforcement procedures. Is that

1969
02:10:04,239 --> 02:10:04,840
a government?

1970
02:10:07,680 --> 02:10:14,239
Speaker 15: So like everybody are so everybody are having your private probably?

1971
02:10:14,359 --> 02:10:17,359
Speaker 18: So if so, that's not a government? So everybody to

1972
02:10:17,439 --> 02:10:18,680
have your private what do.

1973
02:10:18,640 --> 02:10:20,520
Speaker 8: You mean it's not a government, it's it's a it's

1974
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:22,920
a group of people who have the ability to use

1975
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:27,159
force that other people don't have. Is that not a government?

1976
02:10:29,960 --> 02:10:35,319
Speaker 15: But there's no, But there's nobody who is governing uh

1977
02:10:35,479 --> 02:10:36,199
that island?

1978
02:10:36,439 --> 02:10:39,359
Speaker 8: So there's you hear what I said, Like I literally

1979
02:10:39,399 --> 02:10:42,960
just said, if a private security firm is hired by

1980
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:48,119
the island to govern the island voluntarily, is that a government?

1981
02:10:48,279 --> 02:10:48,960
Or is it not?

1982
02:10:52,279 --> 02:10:53,439
Speaker 18: It could be a government?

1983
02:10:53,960 --> 02:10:56,119
Speaker 8: Okay, So so now you're gonna have to tell me,

1984
02:10:56,199 --> 02:10:58,159
like what do you mean why should there be government?

1985
02:10:58,159 --> 02:11:00,560
Because now you've said that council's government and a lot

1986
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:03,520
of libertarians would accept that as government. So you do

1987
02:11:03,680 --> 02:11:04,720
or don't believe in government?

1988
02:11:06,880 --> 02:11:09,000
Speaker 18: Okay?

1989
02:11:10,439 --> 02:11:19,680
Speaker 8: Okay, I thought we were going to go further places there,

1990
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:22,720
but I guess not. So again, you'll notice, like a

1991
02:11:22,760 --> 02:11:28,119
lot of times debates Hinge on ambiguity and terminology, not always,

1992
02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:33,279
but a lot of atheists overuse this, like uh, theists

1993
02:11:33,399 --> 02:11:38,279
that have ambiguity and terminalogy. But sometimes it's true because well,

1994
02:11:38,319 --> 02:11:41,319
what do you mean by a bad pope? What do

1995
02:11:41,359 --> 02:11:44,520
you mean by government? So right, I feel like Jordan

1996
02:11:44,560 --> 02:11:47,079
Peter depends on what to mean, but I mean sometimes

1997
02:11:47,079 --> 02:11:49,640
that's true. Well, what do you mean because if a

1998
02:11:49,680 --> 02:11:53,439
baby is born on an island where all the libertarians

1999
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:57,960
consented to a private security firm being the government being

2000
02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:04,279
the enforcers on libertarian an island, fantasy island, deplain deplay, right,

2001
02:12:04,640 --> 02:12:10,000
we're gonna have Tattoo designated as the judge, dread jury

2002
02:12:10,039 --> 02:12:14,760
and executioner of the island. And if a baby's born,

2003
02:12:15,920 --> 02:12:19,600
uh oh, has he consented to Tattoo being the governor

2004
02:12:19,640 --> 02:12:23,039
of his island? No? Uh oh? Violation of the nap

2005
02:12:23,479 --> 02:12:27,239
Now that sounds silly, but actually it's not silly because

2006
02:12:27,279 --> 02:12:30,800
the premise behind libertarianism is typically that it has to

2007
02:12:30,840 --> 02:12:34,479
be voluntary, has to be you have to respect the

2008
02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:37,279
non aggression principle. So I guess we have to let

2009
02:12:38,079 --> 02:12:41,920
babies born on the island govern themselves in little baby

2010
02:12:41,960 --> 02:12:45,640
cribs until they get old enough to voluntarily contract to

2011
02:12:45,760 --> 02:12:52,560
have tattoo on fantasy Island be able to kill them.

2012
02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:54,880
Tell me that one the good analogy. I'm actually cracking

2013
02:12:54,960 --> 02:13:01,279
up thinking about this, like Libertarian fantasy Island. But I

2014
02:13:01,319 --> 02:13:05,279
mean that seems to follow right, Like and by the way,

2015
02:13:05,319 --> 02:13:09,159
what if I visit libertarian fantasy Island and I don't

2016
02:13:09,159 --> 02:13:17,000
consent to you know, what was that tattoos private security

2017
02:13:17,039 --> 02:13:20,640
firm governing me? Like what do I do now? So? Like,

2018
02:13:21,119 --> 02:13:24,439
am I restricted to some corner of the island that's

2019
02:13:24,479 --> 02:13:28,840
like totally savage with no laws. Like the real libertarian

2020
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:31,560
section of Libertarian Island. Fantasy Island is that where I

2021
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:36,680
go until I voluntarily signed the papers that tattoo can

2022
02:13:36,760 --> 02:13:38,640
rule me. I mean, it just gets absurd. But the

2023
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:41,279
reason it gets absurd is like you're actually following through

2024
02:13:41,319 --> 02:13:44,840
with the logic of the libertarian position that no one

2025
02:13:44,880 --> 02:13:47,720
should be governed without their consent. Well, guess what, You're

2026
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:51,399
born into a family and your father governs you without consent, dummy,

2027
02:13:52,119 --> 02:13:54,880
And then literally you'll get these like Milton Friedman libertarian

2028
02:13:54,920 --> 02:13:59,039
types who are like, no, actually you don't babies. Babies

2029
02:13:59,079 --> 02:14:01,880
are their own individuals, and like, you know, or babies

2030
02:14:01,920 --> 02:14:04,840
are parasites on the mother, and the mother can brought

2031
02:14:05,159 --> 02:14:07,239
a braation the baby because babies are I mean, this

2032
02:14:07,239 --> 02:14:10,800
is how stupid the libertarian shit gets. Because libertarians don't

2033
02:14:10,840 --> 02:14:13,520
live in reality. They live in a fantasy world, just

2034
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:16,319
like the communists do. That's why none of these costco

2035
02:14:16,399 --> 02:14:19,880
liberal idiots will actually debate me. By the way, mark,

2036
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:26,840
what's up? The QR code is for bitcoin. I am

2037
02:14:26,880 --> 02:14:29,920
a huge bitcoin supporter. I believe in bitcoin, but I

2038
02:14:29,920 --> 02:14:34,079
don't believe in bitcoin because libertarians and Austrian economists invented it.

2039
02:14:34,560 --> 02:14:37,640
I can disagree with the philosophy even though I think

2040
02:14:38,039 --> 02:14:41,720
bitcoin is the monetary answering solution. That doesn't mean that

2041
02:14:41,880 --> 02:14:45,840
every aspect of a libertarian classical liberal worldview is true.

2042
02:14:46,079 --> 02:14:49,720
What's up? Man? He dropped off, so I guess he

2043
02:14:50,439 --> 02:14:52,279
said he didn't want any of this. What's up?

2044
02:14:52,399 --> 02:14:52,800
Speaker 11: Escape?

2045
02:14:54,079 --> 02:14:56,399
Speaker 8: We're going to fantasy island, y'all? What's up? Where's all

2046
02:14:56,439 --> 02:15:01,279
the libertarians that to defend the private security contractor tattoo

2047
02:15:01,359 --> 02:15:10,239
inc tattoo justice, the plane, the plane, the gun, the gun?

2048
02:15:11,600 --> 02:15:11,800
Speaker 11: Right?

2049
02:15:14,199 --> 02:15:16,520
Speaker 8: We all on libertarian fantasy island? Where you all at?

2050
02:15:18,680 --> 02:15:20,840
Speaker 16: I think that's sort of starting to come up and say,

2051
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:25,119
I feel like the monopoly on violence isn't the governance.

2052
02:15:25,159 --> 02:15:28,319
The governance is the collective people agreeing to the rules.

2053
02:15:29,840 --> 02:15:32,840
It feels like in that what the situation you slaid

2054
02:15:32,880 --> 02:15:36,239
for and you try to assign governance to the security force.

2055
02:15:36,359 --> 02:15:38,760
Speaker 9: But it'd be the people that agreed to the rules,

2056
02:15:39,079 --> 02:15:39,479
wouldn't it.

2057
02:15:43,079 --> 02:15:45,199
Speaker 8: How are the people who agreed to the rules the

2058
02:15:45,239 --> 02:15:47,680
governing force when they're not the ones worth the use

2059
02:15:47,720 --> 02:15:48,119
of force.

2060
02:15:53,359 --> 02:15:55,159
Speaker 9: That's the idea of what you're saying.

2061
02:15:55,159 --> 02:15:59,359
Speaker 16: If four libertarians lived on an island that live there

2062
02:15:59,479 --> 02:16:01,760
agreeing to a set of rules, and then the private

2063
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:06,600
security would obviously enforce if somebody felt hard done by

2064
02:16:06,720 --> 02:16:08,359
or felt like their property had been.

2065
02:16:10,039 --> 02:16:11,000
Speaker 9: Taken unfairly.

2066
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there's a governing body of a security private

2067
02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:24,239
security farm enforcing the laws or no, the laws.

2068
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:27,079
Speaker 16: Themselves being constructed. That's the governance, isn't it. It's not

2069
02:16:27,119 --> 02:16:28,720
about the enforcement of the laws that.

2070
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:30,600
Speaker 8: Actually So this is why you guys are like, I'm

2071
02:16:30,600 --> 02:16:32,120
not trying to be mean to you, but you guys

2072
02:16:32,200 --> 02:16:36,319
live in a fantasy world. Laws don't enforce themselves. It's

2073
02:16:36,360 --> 02:16:40,520
the power structure that enforces the laws. The actual humans.

2074
02:16:40,920 --> 02:16:45,399
There's no abstract laws enforcing themselves to punish people who

2075
02:16:45,440 --> 02:16:50,920
are stealing your potatoes from your farm.

2076
02:16:51,000 --> 02:16:53,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's probably what I'm trying to get to it.

2077
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:55,319
Speaker 16: Just the fact that there's a security force doesn't mean

2078
02:16:55,319 --> 02:16:57,200
that they are the only people that are able to

2079
02:16:57,319 --> 02:17:00,200
enforce the rules. The social collective can come together and

2080
02:17:00,239 --> 02:17:04,479
say that person was wrongly treated, and then they're able

2081
02:17:04,520 --> 02:17:06,319
to then enforce the monopoly of violence.

2082
02:17:06,360 --> 02:17:06,719
Speaker 9: Also.

2083
02:17:07,879 --> 02:17:10,399
Speaker 8: Yeah, but it doesn't matter because the whole point of

2084
02:17:10,440 --> 02:17:13,399
the analogy was about the fact that where I was

2085
02:17:13,440 --> 02:17:16,399
going with it was if visitors or children are born,

2086
02:17:17,040 --> 02:17:21,479
they're not voluntarily accepting the laws, right, So you can't

2087
02:17:21,639 --> 02:17:28,000
literally make authority or duty based around voluntary acceptance. It

2088
02:17:28,079 --> 02:17:31,879
leads to absurdities like Milton Freeman's idea that like babies

2089
02:17:31,879 --> 02:17:33,000
are parasites on women.

2090
02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:37,479
Speaker 9: Yeah, think in that sense.

2091
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:40,319
Speaker 16: Obviously, a child comes under the like you said, the

2092
02:17:40,399 --> 02:17:43,719
leadership of your parents' house, But when they come of

2093
02:17:43,760 --> 02:17:45,479
an age where they're able to make a decision, they

2094
02:17:45,479 --> 02:17:47,959
could obviously leave the island if they disagreed with that

2095
02:17:48,040 --> 02:17:48,479
rule set.

2096
02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:52,000
Speaker 8: Okay, so authority is not based on consent.

2097
02:17:58,000 --> 02:18:00,000
Speaker 16: I'm just going to run that through my head, sorry,

2098
02:18:00,200 --> 02:18:01,399
is not based on concern.

2099
02:18:01,639 --> 02:18:03,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, so because you just admitted that when they come

2100
02:18:03,920 --> 02:18:05,959
of age they could decide not to be under it.

2101
02:18:07,639 --> 02:18:11,440
Speaker 16: Yeah, but it's I think it's also then justice is included,

2102
02:18:11,559 --> 02:18:17,399
like that that authority can enact injustice and break those

2103
02:18:17,520 --> 02:18:19,360
rule sets by the force of its power.

2104
02:18:19,399 --> 02:18:20,920
Speaker 9: But that means that it's injus.

2105
02:18:24,600 --> 02:18:27,159
Speaker 8: Yeah, but like a father can abuse his authority in

2106
02:18:27,159 --> 02:18:31,520
the household and that's unjust. We don't get rid of

2107
02:18:31,559 --> 02:18:35,559
fathers because there are unjust fathers, that's my point. So likewise,

2108
02:18:36,159 --> 02:18:39,040
it's actually impossible to have a scenario where there are

2109
02:18:39,079 --> 02:18:43,280
no governing powers or individuals with authority to enforce laws,

2110
02:18:43,719 --> 02:18:49,079
and so there's always some level of possibility of abuse

2111
02:18:49,120 --> 02:18:52,479
of authority. But I'm just saying that libertarian has been

2112
02:18:52,520 --> 02:18:56,799
so fraught with fallacious assumptions and metaphysics that they can't

2113
02:18:56,840 --> 02:19:00,079
justify that these are basic examples that really disprove the

2114
02:19:00,159 --> 02:19:05,559
fact that you can't make governance literally hinging on consent.

2115
02:19:08,559 --> 02:19:09,399
Speaker 9: Yeah, I agree with that.

2116
02:19:09,440 --> 02:19:12,600
Speaker 16: I think I do think that that's the role of

2117
02:19:12,639 --> 02:19:18,680
government obviously is to to write injustice. So if there is,

2118
02:19:19,000 --> 02:19:22,520
but I think that's just lean more towards the fact

2119
02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:25,040
that we've put the government in a too big of

2120
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:27,479
a position and we've given them so much power of us.

2121
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:30,280
Speaker 8: And well, I agree with that, yeah, but that doesn't

2122
02:19:30,319 --> 02:19:41,200
require me accepting the classical liberal presuppositions to say that, Yeah, cool.

2123
02:19:41,000 --> 02:19:42,680
Speaker 9: That's all. I just wanted to jump up because of that.

2124
02:19:42,719 --> 02:19:46,879
Speaker 16: I feel like I feel like you were over representation

2125
02:19:47,920 --> 02:19:51,719
the authority of the force. But I think that is

2126
02:19:51,959 --> 02:19:54,840
most of the libertarians I talk to, we will push

2127
02:19:54,920 --> 02:19:58,040
that it's more rules not rulers, like it's the fact

2128
02:19:58,079 --> 02:20:02,399
that there's society these days will put an individual or

2129
02:20:02,680 --> 02:20:06,040
a government and give them so much control over individuals. Then,

2130
02:20:06,159 --> 02:20:09,799
as a Christian, I think that's because a lot of

2131
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:13,159
society has devoid faith, so they have no accountability to

2132
02:20:13,200 --> 02:20:17,159
a creator, so they'll need something to fill that spot.

2133
02:20:17,239 --> 02:20:20,280
But I think I think I lean more towards I

2134
02:20:20,319 --> 02:20:20,639
think it.

2135
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:24,319
Speaker 8: Might not be a.

2136
02:20:26,799 --> 02:20:28,959
Speaker 9: Smoother world if it was a libertarian, but I think

2137
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:32,120
it'd be the more.

2138
02:20:33,719 --> 02:20:37,440
Speaker 8: I don't know, the world that has less Okay, yeah,

2139
02:20:37,479 --> 02:20:40,040
I mean I would actually agree with that. Solution is

2140
02:20:40,159 --> 02:20:47,040
just we have a libertarian island that has a monarch

2141
02:20:47,239 --> 02:20:59,120
for this for the how's that herk. How do I

2142
02:20:59,159 --> 02:21:02,760
call in through the Twitter link? Bro? If you want

2143
02:21:02,760 --> 02:21:05,319
to call in, you just call in on the Twitter

2144
02:21:05,360 --> 02:21:08,879
space right here. That's up.

2145
02:21:10,319 --> 02:21:14,440
Speaker 23: Hey, Jay, I'm a libertarian, but I'm left libertarian, So

2146
02:21:14,639 --> 02:21:16,639
I actually agree with a lot of what you were

2147
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:19,840
just saying to the last two gentlemen. I was going

2148
02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:22,920
to say to the first gentleman that there's a book

2149
02:21:22,959 --> 02:21:27,159
called The Machinery of Freedmen of Freedom by David Friedman

2150
02:21:27,639 --> 02:21:31,680
that explains the private court systems, and it makes it

2151
02:21:31,760 --> 02:21:33,040
sound somewhat.

2152
02:21:32,600 --> 02:21:35,319
Speaker 18: Plausible but highly unlikely.

2153
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:38,520
Speaker 23: Given the state of humanity right now. So we're looking

2154
02:21:38,520 --> 02:21:42,319
at hundreds, if not thousands of years of development before

2155
02:21:42,360 --> 02:21:44,840
we get to this Star Trek fantasy land where we

2156
02:21:44,879 --> 02:21:51,239
don't keep centralized planning and local governments can control everything.

2157
02:21:51,959 --> 02:21:56,360
Speaker 8: Yeah. I just saw a video what is the name

2158
02:21:56,360 --> 02:22:00,840
of that? There's a community that is being it's kind

2159
02:22:00,840 --> 02:22:03,680
of already kind of up and running in Nicaragua. I

2160
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:05,280
forget where it is. So there's some place where there's

2161
02:22:05,280 --> 02:22:08,440
like a full on bitcoin community and there's not a

2162
02:22:08,479 --> 02:22:10,559
whole lot of people living there that there's like five

2163
02:22:10,600 --> 02:22:12,360
people there ten. I don't know what it is, but

2164
02:22:12,719 --> 02:22:17,920
so somebody's trying to create something like this with a

2165
02:22:18,000 --> 02:22:24,479
community that's libertarian run that is totally on the basis

2166
02:22:24,559 --> 02:22:28,360
of bitcoin, and you have to basically voluntarily assent to everything.

2167
02:22:28,520 --> 02:22:32,280
Let me find that video. It's an interesting idea. But

2168
02:22:32,760 --> 02:22:36,239
the thing is is like, already they are very selective

2169
02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:40,079
about who comes, so it's not I mean, obviously like

2170
02:22:40,120 --> 02:22:41,479
to go there, you gotta have a lot of money.

2171
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:45,040
So it's and I'm not even saying that that's necessarily wrong.

2172
02:22:45,159 --> 02:22:47,000
I don't think there's anything wrong with being wealthy or

2173
02:22:47,000 --> 02:22:49,479
moving to an island or anything like that. But it's like,

2174
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:52,840
so libertarian and free and all this kind of stuff

2175
02:22:52,879 --> 02:22:57,440
is in reality restricted to like bitcoin zillionaires and people

2176
02:22:57,479 --> 02:23:05,440
that pass this private company's background check or whatever they do.

2177
02:23:06,959 --> 02:23:09,760
Let me find it so I know, l Salvador. You know,

2178
02:23:09,959 --> 02:23:13,520
you could say it's not Bitcoin City. It might be

2179
02:23:13,600 --> 02:23:17,399
this one. I'm not talking about El Salvador. I understand

2180
02:23:17,399 --> 02:23:19,920
there's potentiality for all of this. I do think there's

2181
02:23:19,920 --> 02:23:26,120
a lot of potential for places to become healthy, functioning societies.

2182
02:23:26,479 --> 02:23:31,399
They will have some elements of libertarian principles. I do

2183
02:23:31,520 --> 02:23:34,159
agree with that. Where is this thing? I just watched

2184
02:23:34,159 --> 02:23:36,159
this the other day.

2185
02:23:36,840 --> 02:23:38,280
Speaker 23: I would stressed that it has to be done in

2186
02:23:38,360 --> 02:23:45,479
steps so gradually. Most people in America are reliant on

2187
02:23:45,600 --> 02:23:50,600
government programs and would be totally petrified if there were

2188
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:53,040
any alterations alone cutting them whole scale.

2189
02:23:55,719 --> 02:23:58,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think those are fair objections and arguments. I

2190
02:23:58,639 --> 02:24:00,680
would agree with that that if there is going to

2191
02:24:00,760 --> 02:24:02,479
be something like this is probably a long time down

2192
02:24:02,520 --> 02:24:05,840
the road, or it's going to be restricted to like,

2193
02:24:06,600 --> 02:24:10,799
you know, zillionaires. I can't find what I'm looking for.

2194
02:24:10,879 --> 02:24:14,040
Maybe it's I don't know, it was just some weird

2195
02:24:14,120 --> 02:24:17,559
video of like, but the point was just that it's

2196
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:20,360
going to be very selective, I guess initially, And I'm

2197
02:24:20,360 --> 02:24:21,600
not even I don't even have a problem with that,

2198
02:24:21,600 --> 02:24:23,840
Like I don't think there's anything wrong with elitism per se.

2199
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:27,559
But like he's saying that if this was really going

2200
02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:30,600
to spill out into like the rest of the world, yeah,

2201
02:24:30,600 --> 02:24:34,399
we're talking like centuries centuries for this to affect like

2202
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:38,120
all societies. I do think in the near future, the

2203
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:43,399
like the next say, fifty years, as even Jacques Attealie

2204
02:24:43,440 --> 02:24:47,719
admits in his book The Cities That Adopt the in

2205
02:24:47,760 --> 02:24:52,719
the areas that adopt the forward thinking technologies are the

2206
02:24:52,719 --> 02:24:56,399
ones that become the megacity economic centers of the future.

2207
02:24:57,440 --> 02:25:02,120
So the places right now where you have massive bitcoin

2208
02:25:02,159 --> 02:25:07,600
mining and acceptance places, maybe in Texas, I'll Salvador Bitcoin

2209
02:25:07,719 --> 02:25:10,680
City Island. Whatever I'm looking for, Like these things I

2210
02:25:10,719 --> 02:25:16,479
think will probably end up being mega centers in the future. Anyway,

2211
02:25:18,840 --> 02:25:27,200
what's up, Alex? But I mean for now, it's like

2212
02:25:27,280 --> 02:25:30,399
Golf's gulch, like whatever I was looking at. If I

2213
02:25:30,399 --> 02:25:37,799
can find that, oh I know how to find it,

2214
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:42,760
I know where it is. What's up? Man? Got un mute? Dude, Yo?

2215
02:25:42,879 --> 02:25:43,479
Speaker 18: What's up? Due?

2216
02:25:47,399 --> 02:25:48,000
Speaker 24: I want to know.

2217
02:25:48,040 --> 02:25:49,680
Speaker 18: I'm a Catholic, but I want to know.

2218
02:25:49,719 --> 02:25:52,360
Speaker 24: I was talking to this other Orthodox, So I'm curious

2219
02:25:52,440 --> 02:25:58,399
your view on exorcism. Like you guys as Orthodox, think

2220
02:25:58,479 --> 02:26:02,760
that as Catholic believe in like different Jesus than you guys.

2221
02:26:04,520 --> 02:26:07,319
Speaker 8: Not necessarily. I mean, I think that you're naming and

2222
02:26:07,360 --> 02:26:11,280
intending the same correct Jesus. But how does that relate

2223
02:26:11,319 --> 02:26:14,920
to exorcism Because I could say that exorcisms can happen

2224
02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:17,319
like in Mark seven outside the church, but that doesn't

2225
02:26:17,319 --> 02:26:19,600
approve anything either way.

2226
02:26:21,000 --> 02:26:22,920
Speaker 24: Right, That's what I was curious like if so if

2227
02:26:22,920 --> 02:26:28,159
a Catholic exorcism, like they're actually casting demons. So if

2228
02:26:28,159 --> 02:26:31,680
we were using like a false Jesus name, how would

2229
02:26:31,719 --> 02:26:34,600
that work? Or you're saying it's just based on intent, Well,

2230
02:26:34,639 --> 02:26:35,159
I think there.

2231
02:26:35,120 --> 02:26:38,280
Speaker 8: Is objective power in that name, and I do think

2232
02:26:38,280 --> 02:26:43,680
that Catholics intend to reference the correct Jesus. But I

2233
02:26:43,719 --> 02:26:46,719
think that and that's why we don't make like judgments

2234
02:26:46,719 --> 02:26:51,360
of individual Roman Catholics. What we judge, or what we say,

2235
02:26:51,600 --> 02:26:56,239
is that the public structure of the Roman Catholic Church

2236
02:26:56,280 --> 02:27:01,479
as an institution is heterodox. It's false, it doesn't give

2237
02:27:01,520 --> 02:27:04,360
all the stuff it promises. But that doesn't mean that

2238
02:27:04,399 --> 02:27:06,719
I'm judging every single individual Roman Catholic because I don't

2239
02:27:06,760 --> 02:27:08,959
know their heart, owner their situation. And now God can

2240
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:12,559
do a miracle. Do you do a miracle anywhere anyway wants?

2241
02:27:13,719 --> 02:27:16,079
But that's the thing about like the miracle stuff is

2242
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:20,639
signs and wonders don't prove necessarily which one is the

2243
02:27:20,680 --> 02:27:23,799
true or the false faith. Because Johnnys and John Brace,

2244
02:27:24,600 --> 02:27:28,000
if you read you, they mimic the first two miracles

2245
02:27:28,000 --> 02:27:33,440
of Moses. So does that prove Egyptian theology? No, The

2246
02:27:33,559 --> 02:27:37,200
Coptics points out that Mary supposedly appeared in z I

2247
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:42,079
Tune Egypt two thousands of Coptics. Does that prove Coptic Christianity. No,

2248
02:27:42,239 --> 02:27:45,200
So you can't base the faith on the signs of

2249
02:27:45,239 --> 02:27:47,879
wonders even though the true faith has signs of wonders.

2250
02:27:47,920 --> 02:27:48,600
Does that make sense?

2251
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:52,760
Speaker 24: Yeah, that makes sense. Also, if I can ask another one,

2252
02:27:52,799 --> 02:27:56,360
what do you make of Like I hear the term

2253
02:27:56,399 --> 02:27:59,959
pre list a lot, do you what do you make

2254
02:28:00,079 --> 02:28:04,399
of Catholic saints like, for example, Mary Faustina. Is she

2255
02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:08,399
hallucinating or are these legitimate encounters?

2256
02:28:08,520 --> 02:28:08,639
Speaker 18: Oh?

2257
02:28:08,719 --> 02:28:09,159
Speaker 11: I think that.

2258
02:28:09,360 --> 02:28:11,520
Speaker 8: I think those are like the best examples of pre

2259
02:28:11,639 --> 02:28:16,200
list in fact, and even even many Roman Catholics admit

2260
02:28:16,319 --> 02:28:19,879
this is one of the strongest arguments against their position

2261
02:28:20,239 --> 02:28:26,280
is cases like Margaret Mary Ala Coquay, who's clearly engaging

2262
02:28:26,360 --> 02:28:30,920
in self harm and has really kind of wild, outrageous claims.

2263
02:28:32,200 --> 02:28:34,280
I made a video that's only about eight minutes. I'm

2264
02:28:34,280 --> 02:28:37,680
going to pull it up on this topic because I

2265
02:28:37,680 --> 02:28:41,079
think this is actually one of the stronger points that

2266
02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:43,680
refutes Rome. It's right here. It's called Roman Catholic Historyonic

2267
02:28:43,719 --> 02:28:47,239
women's saints refute papalism because if you read that. If

2268
02:28:47,239 --> 02:28:50,479
you watch this video, you'll see that, like, you can't

2269
02:28:50,959 --> 02:28:54,600
question her sanctity in her claims because she's said to

2270
02:28:54,639 --> 02:28:56,479
be a saint. So if she's not a saint, then

2271
02:28:56,520 --> 02:28:59,920
her like first of all, that would deny ordinary magistar,

2272
02:29:00,239 --> 02:29:03,280
because you're denying who the Pope says and confirms as

2273
02:29:03,280 --> 02:29:08,079
a saint. Secondly, she's like cutting Jesus's name into her chest,

2274
02:29:08,760 --> 02:29:11,159
I mean like self harm, like literally like what the

2275
02:29:11,200 --> 02:29:15,000
prophets of a bail are doing that Elijah's like rebuking,

2276
02:29:15,479 --> 02:29:18,600
So how is this like saintly when she's doing it

2277
02:29:19,280 --> 02:29:21,879
and she says, oh, well, but Jesus says that, you know,

2278
02:29:21,959 --> 02:29:25,760
he's my boyfriend, just like Felsina Kowalska does. So I

2279
02:29:25,799 --> 02:29:28,639
actually think these are some of the strongest overlooked arguments

2280
02:29:28,639 --> 02:29:32,120
against Rome because clearly this woman is disturbed and she

2281
02:29:32,159 --> 02:29:36,959
has problems, and it's there's at least two papal encyclicals

2282
02:29:36,959 --> 02:29:39,559
that confirm her saint hoods, so you can't reject it.

2283
02:29:42,479 --> 02:29:44,959
Speaker 18: Okay, I'll have to look more into that. One last

2284
02:29:45,000 --> 02:29:46,159
question if I can ask you.

2285
02:29:48,000 --> 02:29:50,280
Speaker 15: Okay, and don't again, I'm not trying to be too

2286
02:29:50,319 --> 02:29:50,600
I just.

2287
02:29:50,520 --> 02:29:51,559
Speaker 18: Want the real answer here.

2288
02:29:51,799 --> 02:29:54,920
Speaker 24: So I'm just like back in the day the undivided Church, right,

2289
02:29:56,600 --> 02:30:00,200
would we consider like because nowadays, if Orthodox is the

2290
02:30:00,239 --> 02:30:03,200
only true church and there's about I think last time

2291
02:30:03,239 --> 02:30:06,280
I looked, take three hundred and fifty million members or something,

2292
02:30:07,319 --> 02:30:11,120
and then the rest majority of Christians in the world

2293
02:30:11,159 --> 02:30:16,000
are heretics. Does this mean the original church failed or

2294
02:30:16,000 --> 02:30:17,159
how do you look at it?

2295
02:30:17,200 --> 02:30:17,280
Speaker 23: Like?

2296
02:30:18,479 --> 02:30:22,000
Speaker 8: Well, I would just reply that nobody, whether you or

2297
02:30:22,079 --> 02:30:25,799
me or any of us, actually believes that the true

2298
02:30:25,879 --> 02:30:28,440
Church is proven on the basis of the numbers. So,

2299
02:30:30,120 --> 02:30:32,760
for example, in the fourth century the Aryan Crisis, even

2300
02:30:32,879 --> 02:30:37,319
Roman Catholics believe that most of the Church had fallen

2301
02:30:37,360 --> 02:30:40,600
into the semi arian position and only at one point

2302
02:30:40,639 --> 02:30:42,760
it was Athanacious and like a handful of bishops were

2303
02:30:42,760 --> 02:30:45,959
the only ones left. So even you guys, you and

2304
02:30:46,040 --> 02:30:49,360
Roman Catholics have to admit that you can't make it

2305
02:30:49,440 --> 02:30:54,920
dependent on numbers. So say Maximus, for example, when he

2306
02:30:55,000 --> 02:30:57,760
was going through his travails with the Monothelites and the

2307
02:30:57,799 --> 02:31:00,959
mone Energists, he at one point said, as if the

2308
02:31:01,000 --> 02:31:04,040
true number of Catholics was reduced to a small band,

2309
02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:07,719
I would be amongst them, right, So that shows us

2310
02:31:07,760 --> 02:31:12,079
that whatever century, especially in centuries of a lot of

2311
02:31:12,159 --> 02:31:15,680
persecution or heresy, that that creeps in and destroys the

2312
02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:18,479
church in areas can't destroy the whole church, but it

2313
02:31:18,479 --> 02:31:22,239
can destroy nations. You know, Jesus says to the Seven Churches,

2314
02:31:23,239 --> 02:31:26,520
entire churches can have their lampstand ripped away. So you

2315
02:31:26,559 --> 02:31:30,239
can have entire nations even that lose the faith. Apostolizing

2316
02:31:30,239 --> 02:31:32,760
the fact I was just reading about. I didn't know this.

2317
02:31:32,840 --> 02:31:38,559
There were Byzantine cathedrals in Jordan, well what's now called Jordan,

2318
02:31:39,319 --> 02:31:47,440
that the Hashami king had demolished, and this actually pissed

2319
02:31:47,479 --> 02:31:51,200
off some of the British imperial spies, who you know,

2320
02:31:51,360 --> 02:31:54,319
were not they weren't Orthodox, but they weren't they weren't

2321
02:31:54,319 --> 02:31:57,000
anti Christian at least, so they actually got mad when

2322
02:31:57,000 --> 02:32:00,559
the king of Jordan demolished some of the business cathedrals.

2323
02:32:00,559 --> 02:32:03,280
So there was there was like Orthodox cathedrals and business

2324
02:32:03,280 --> 02:32:06,479
to cathedrals even in Jordan in places like you know,

2325
02:32:07,120 --> 02:32:10,760
like close to Saudi areas, that Christianity had gotten that far.

2326
02:32:11,200 --> 02:32:13,879
But there's no Christians in those regions now. So you

2327
02:32:13,879 --> 02:32:18,200
can have entire countries, nations, regions lose the faith, and

2328
02:32:18,239 --> 02:32:21,159
that's why again I would say, you know, Paul warns

2329
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:25,040
the church at Rome that they can they can be

2330
02:32:25,079 --> 02:32:25,719
grafted out.

2331
02:32:28,600 --> 02:32:31,719
Speaker 24: Okay, yeah, I guess I kind of understand that. Just

2332
02:32:32,200 --> 02:32:35,399
to me, I don't know, that seems a little wild

2333
02:32:35,479 --> 02:32:38,799
that we like, I feel like it kind of in

2334
02:32:38,840 --> 02:32:41,120
a way, I know what you're saying, like the numbers

2335
02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:44,399
don't matter, but in a way it did, like kind

2336
02:32:44,399 --> 02:32:44,799
of fail.

2337
02:32:44,879 --> 02:32:46,719
Speaker 18: It made more heretics than true.

2338
02:32:46,799 --> 02:32:50,920
Speaker 8: Now, well, it's not the church making heretics. Heretics are

2339
02:32:52,040 --> 02:32:54,479
people who choose, by their own will and decision to

2340
02:32:54,520 --> 02:32:58,479
become heretics. So the Church isn't making heretics.

2341
02:33:00,079 --> 02:33:01,760
Speaker 18: Okay, I guess I see that.

2342
02:33:02,040 --> 02:33:05,000
Speaker 8: But I mean, it's never been a numbers game. I mean,

2343
02:33:05,319 --> 02:33:07,559
in the Old Testament, it was not a numbers game.

2344
02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:10,239
You know, even if it's reduced to a remnant, it's

2345
02:33:10,280 --> 02:33:12,879
not a numbers game. I mean again, you guys, as

2346
02:33:12,879 --> 02:33:14,840
a Roman Catholic, you don't believe it was a numbers

2347
02:33:14,879 --> 02:33:20,159
game in the fourth century.

2348
02:33:20,319 --> 02:33:21,959
Speaker 18: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

2349
02:33:22,760 --> 02:33:25,719
Speaker 24: All right, Give me something to look into on the

2350
02:33:25,760 --> 02:33:27,440
spirit proceeding.

2351
02:33:26,920 --> 02:33:27,600
Speaker 18: Not from the sun.

2352
02:33:27,680 --> 02:33:29,760
Speaker 24: What would you recommend I look into if I want

2353
02:33:29,760 --> 02:33:31,360
to be honest with myself.

2354
02:33:32,280 --> 02:33:36,120
Speaker 8: You could read the Edward Skshensky book The History of

2355
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:39,920
the Philly Oaquay. Book is a good introduction to that topic.

2356
02:33:41,120 --> 02:33:43,120
If you want to get deeper into the specific so

2357
02:33:43,239 --> 02:33:45,680
that theology, I would say from the Orthodoxy, I would

2358
02:33:45,680 --> 02:33:50,239
say you got to read Mistagogy by Saint Photius or

2359
02:33:50,840 --> 02:33:51,799
Apidictic Treatise