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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 5: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 6: Good Evening, This is your host Stan Zupanski for the
Speaker 6: program True Murder, the most shocking killers in true crime
Speaker 6: history and the authors that have written about them. To
Speaker 6: the people of Olney, Texas, thirty nine year old Farian
Speaker 6: Wardrip was an upright citizen, a happily married man, a
Speaker 6: valued employee, and a respected Sunday school teacher. In January
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety nine, investigators reviewing the files of three unsolved
Speaker 6: murders dating back fifteen years came across information linking Wardrope
Speaker 6: to the female victims, Terry Simms, who was bound, raped
Speaker 6: and stabbed to death, Tony Gibbs, slashed and sexually assaulted
Speaker 6: and left in a bus shelter, and Ellen Blow, who
Speaker 6: disappeared after a work shift and her decompos decomposing body
Speaker 6: found a month later. Clever police snared a DNA sample
Speaker 6: from Wardrop which matched the DNA found with Terry Simms.
Speaker 6: Wardrop then confessed to the three murders and one more.
Speaker 6: Deborah Taylor Wardrop is also a suspect in ten other murders,
Speaker 6: but it was sims murder that made him eligible for
Speaker 6: the death penalty before the BTK killer, another deadly predator
Speaker 6: Body Hunter. My special guest this evening is journalist and
Speaker 6: author Patricia Springer. Welcome to the program, and thank you
Speaker 6: for agreeing to this interview. Patricia Springer, Thank you, Dan,
Speaker 6: good to be with you. Thank you. Now, given the
Speaker 6: gruesome murder murders involved in this case, what made you
Speaker 6: to decide to write Body Hunter? Your book about these
Speaker 6: murders and the serial killer Fairy and Wardrobe.
Speaker 7: Well, serial killers are always of the interest to readers,
Speaker 7: and fair and Worldrope story was fascinating because he had
Speaker 7: confessed to one murder in the nineteen eighties, he spent
Speaker 7: time in prison, then apprehended and convicted the three additional murders.
Speaker 6: Right, Well, what put you in a position to be
Speaker 6: able to have to do this story? What was unique
Speaker 6: about your situation? Are you from this area? Are you
Speaker 6: familiar with this What brought you to this story? I'm curious.
Speaker 7: Well, it was in the North Texas area, and I
Speaker 7: live in the North Texas area.
Speaker 8: And serial killers are.
Speaker 7: We have had several of this part of the country
Speaker 7: and the story was just rather fascinating because he had
Speaker 7: served time before.
Speaker 6: I see now the story is primarily set in a
Speaker 6: place called Wichita Falls, Texas. What is Wichita like? Where
Speaker 6: is it situation in the state and how far away
Speaker 6: is it from Fort Worth, Texas.
Speaker 7: Wichita Falls is located in the northern part of Texas
Speaker 7: and Wichitaw County and Wichita County borders on the Oklahoma line.
Speaker 7: It's a city of approximately one hundred thousand people. It's
Speaker 7: home to Midwestern State University, Shepherd Air Force Base, and
Speaker 7: Wichita Falls State Mental Hospital. A lot of oil business
Speaker 7: is in that area of the country, and it's approximately
Speaker 7: one hundred and twenty miles from Fort Worth, Okay.
Speaker 6: Now the killer subject of body Hunter, as as we
Speaker 6: mentioned as Ferry and Wardrope, what was his childhood like?
Speaker 6: Based on your research.
Speaker 7: He was the fourth of nine children born to Diana
Speaker 7: and George waldro of Marion, Indiana. His father was a
Speaker 7: factory worker and his mother was a homemaker.
Speaker 8: They grew up fairly poor.
Speaker 7: As a child, he often felt lonely and depressed, and
Speaker 7: he cried easily. When he complained to his parents about that,
Speaker 7: they just always said that it was a phase and
Speaker 7: he would grow out of it.
Speaker 8: But he really never.
Speaker 7: Grew out of his discontent. He was embarrassed by his
Speaker 7: hand me down clothes, and he never felt he was
Speaker 7: on par with his more affluent classmates. Although Pharah had
Speaker 7: some success in sports he played basketball and he was
Speaker 7: on the swimming team, he was a failure academically. He
Speaker 7: spent most of these school years in special education classes.
Speaker 7: Then at thirteen he began committing petty crimes like shoplifting,
Speaker 7: and then at fourteen he began drinking alcohol and smoking
Speaker 7: pot that eventually led him to harder drugs.
Speaker 6: Like what kind of drugs were we talking?
Speaker 8: Speed?
Speaker 7: Mostly met amphetamine, those types of things, right right.
Speaker 6: I found it interesting too, you know, I've read about
Speaker 6: a lot of killers. But this story, that the information
Speaker 6: that you were able to gather when he was seventeen,
Speaker 6: it was I thought a very significant event that you
Speaker 6: really effectively capture in your book. What happened with his
Speaker 6: family when he was seventeen.
Speaker 7: Well, at seventeen, his father had bought him a used car,
Speaker 7: just a couple of hundred dollars and he had loaned
Speaker 7: it to a friend and that friend had blown the
Speaker 7: engine in it. When his father learned of that, he
Speaker 7: was furious at Farren, and he continued his irresponsibility in
Speaker 7: his father's eyes, and he demanded that he move out
Speaker 7: of the family home. Well, Farren really didn't believe they minted,
Speaker 7: but he went upstairs and packed his things in a
Speaker 7: sack and started to leave. And then when his mother
Speaker 7: called him back, he thought, oh, great, they're just joking.
Speaker 7: They're just trying to scare me. But when he returned
Speaker 7: to the house, his mother asking for the keys, and
Speaker 7: he knew then that he was pretty much on his
Speaker 7: own and he was without his family support any longer.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a pretty traumatic experience for anybody. It's a
Speaker 6: pretty interesting piece of information as well. Now, what did
Speaker 6: a Farian do in reaction to this huge change in
Speaker 6: his life?
Speaker 7: Well, he dropped out of high school and spent most
Speaker 7: of the time scoring drugs, just going from odd job
Speaker 7: to odd job. He never really landed in any big substantial.
Speaker 6: Not too long after, at least, when he's a young man,
Speaker 6: he joins the army. What was that experience like that?
Speaker 6: How much of a help was the army and that
Speaker 6: type of discipline for him.
Speaker 7: Well, really none. He was seeking direction in his life
Speaker 7: and so he thought that if he joined the Indiana
Speaker 7: National Guard that that would help give him some substance.
Speaker 7: But what happened is he went off to boot camp
Speaker 7: and he decided he didn't like the discipline and the structure.
Speaker 7: He didn't like the regiment of the army. So when
Speaker 7: he was out of boot camp, he decided was going
Speaker 7: to take any more orders, and so he just never
Speaker 7: showed up for any of the monthly.
Speaker 8: Duties that he had.
Speaker 7: Instead, he would just smoke marijuana and do drugs, and
Speaker 7: finally the Guard dismissed him with a less than honorable discharge.
Speaker 6: Right now, he continues again somewhat normal life. He gets married.
Speaker 6: He gets married to a woman named Johnna Johnna Jackson
Speaker 6: and tell us a little bout this marriage. Was it
Speaker 6: a good and healthy marriage? Did they have children?
Speaker 7: He wasn't a very healthy marriage. What had happened is
Speaker 7: that his father had moved the family to Wichitaal Falls
Speaker 7: from Indiana, and Farron just followed along. Even though he
Speaker 7: really wasn't a part of the family, he still wanted
Speaker 7: to stay in contact with them. He met john and
Speaker 7: Jackson in the bar, and he found her to be fun,
Speaker 7: loving and spirited. They were married very shortly after they met,
Speaker 7: but it was really rocky from the start. He complained
Speaker 7: that she wanted she didn't want to do anything but
Speaker 7: sit on the sofa and watch TV.
Speaker 8: She didn't want to.
Speaker 7: Work, that she just wanted to stay home and be
Speaker 7: a wife and mother. They fought over his inability to
Speaker 7: keep a job and his failure to provide for them,
Speaker 7: and during her first pregnancy, Farren had ten different jobs,
Speaker 7: so he was not very good at holding and maintaining
Speaker 7: a job. His childhood feelings of inadequacy returned and he
Speaker 7: continued to abuse drugs and alcohol. After three years of
Speaker 7: marriage and the birth of two children, Johna finally filed
Speaker 7: for divorce.
Speaker 6: And how did he accept that decision of Jona's as well?
Speaker 6: How did he react to that as well?
Speaker 7: Oh, curious decided that he hated Jona. He was very
Speaker 7: angry and just went further into his alcohol and drugs
Speaker 7: as a way to cope with the situation that he
Speaker 7: couldn't do anything right.
Speaker 6: And what year was the divorce? And finally or finalized.
Speaker 7: Oh, I'm not really sure. It was in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 6: So mid eighties was it?
Speaker 8: Yes? Mid eighties?
Speaker 6: Okay? In Wichita on December twenty one, nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 6: near the end of nineteen eighty four, and the first
Speaker 6: woman found dead in what Chita for all this, twenty
Speaker 6: two year old Terry Simms. Her friend Lisa Boond found
Speaker 6: her good friend Terry. What had happened? How did she die? Well?
Speaker 7: Terry was a student at Midwestern State University and she.
Speaker 8: Worked at a local hospital. She went to her.
Speaker 7: House to study, and Lisa was going to come over
Speaker 7: lady later to help her study, and so she had
Speaker 7: dropped her off gone back to finish her shift at
Speaker 7: the hospital. Then all of a sudden, there was a
Speaker 7: knock at the door, and Terry opened the door and
Speaker 7: there was a man standing there.
Speaker 8: Drenched by the rain.
Speaker 7: Before she could do anything, he burst through the door
Speaker 7: and began beating her.
Speaker 8: Even though Terry.
Speaker 7: Fought back, he was too strong for he pulled her
Speaker 7: pink smock over her head, tossed it on the coffee table,
Speaker 7: and then dragged her to the bedroom.
Speaker 8: He pulled a knife on Terry.
Speaker 7: And began poking her with the tip of it. She
Speaker 7: even grabbed for the blade of the knife trying to
Speaker 7: defend herself and was severely cut. In fact, one finger
Speaker 7: was severed. He grabbed an extension cord that was laying
Speaker 7: between the wall and the bed, tied her up, and
Speaker 7: then he sexually molested her or he raped her. He
Speaker 7: drug her to the bathroom and he slumped her body
Speaker 7: over the side of the bathtub, and there he repeatedly
Speaker 7: stabbed her until she died.
Speaker 6: Okay, now we're talking. You didn't describe fairy and wardrobe.
Speaker 6: He's a huge man, and we're talking these victims about
Speaker 6: one hundred pounds and five foot twos.
Speaker 7: He's about right six, he's about six six, thin, but
Speaker 7: still very overpowering to these women that were all of
Speaker 7: them were less than five to six. Most of them
Speaker 7: were five to two to five four Right now?
Speaker 6: Uh. A month later, twenty three year old nurse at
Speaker 6: Wichita Falls, Tony Gibbs disappears. What were the circumstances surrounding
Speaker 6: her disappearance.
Speaker 7: Well, when Tony finished her shift, she was leaving the
Speaker 7: Wichita Foss General Hospital when she saw Farren Waldrip, who
Speaker 7: was an orderly a new orderly at the hospital. Walking
Speaker 7: down the street, she stopped and she asked him if
Speaker 7: he'd like a ride. As soon as he got in
Speaker 7: the car, he demanded that she drive to a construction
Speaker 7: site outside of town on a desolate road. He began
Speaker 7: yelling at her, telling her he hated her, and he
Speaker 7: really didn't know Tony, he was just angry again, drug
Speaker 7: induced and so forth. He said later that his anger
Speaker 7: was not directed at her, but directed at his personal
Speaker 7: situation with his wife. Tony liked Terry Simms was a fighter.
Speaker 8: She grabbed for.
Speaker 7: The door, handled just to get away, and she felt
Speaker 7: a sharp pain side, and that's when he had stabbed her.
Speaker 7: Then she ran from the car and he caught her,
Speaker 7: dragged her through the underbrush to an abandoned, burned out
Speaker 7: school bus that was there out in the country. Inside
Speaker 7: the busshell, he raped her and then flipped her over
Speaker 7: and sidomized her. He took his knife and he stabbed
Speaker 7: her three times in the back and three times in
Speaker 7: the chest. He stepped her bloody clothes under the floorboard
Speaker 7: of the bus, and then he took off in Tony's
Speaker 7: white Camaro. While he was fleeing the scene, Tony was
Speaker 7: not dead, and she was crawling trying to get out
Speaker 7: to a road, and she died about one hundred yards
Speaker 7: from where the bus was.
Speaker 6: Well. Now, about a month later, Tony Gibbs's body is discovered.
Speaker 6: How was she discovered and was there any useful evidence
Speaker 6: left at the crime scene.
Speaker 7: She was discovered by a Texas Electric serviceman who had
Speaker 7: gone out to inspect a transformer that was there in
Speaker 7: that area. He believed he saw something in the grass
Speaker 7: and when when he first looked at it, he thought
Speaker 7: it was a mannequin, and then he realized that it
Speaker 7: was a body and it was Babby decomposing. She was
Speaker 7: laying face up. He called the police. When the police
Speaker 7: came out, they noticed that there were paw marks on
Speaker 7: her body, a portion of her left up, her arm,
Speaker 7: and her left calf had been eaten away by animals.
Speaker 7: They found her clothing in the bus. They also found
Speaker 7: droplets of blood in the bus, and they made impressions
Speaker 7: of tire marks outside of the bus, and all these
Speaker 7: were things that they used in evidence later on. Of course,
Speaker 7: the biggest thing was that because she had been raped,
Speaker 7: there was DNA left there.
Speaker 6: Oh good. Now at this point did police have any.
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Speaker 6: Reason to link the two murders whatsoever?
Speaker 7: No, they really didn't, And in fact, in order to
Speaker 7: ease the fears of the community at which Tall falls,
Speaker 7: they insisted that there was no connection between the Sims
Speaker 7: murder and the Gibbs murders.
Speaker 6: Now, in this interesting case, there's a gentleman that comes
Speaker 6: into view. Here is a gentleman named Danny Laughlin. And
Speaker 6: how did he become involved in this case?
Speaker 7: Well, Danny Laughlin was a local boy. He worked in
Speaker 7: a bar. He drove a motorcycle and he was noticed
Speaker 7: driving up and down the site where Tony Gibbs's body
Speaker 7: had been eventually found. He also drew suspicion to himself
Speaker 7: because he had a pet wolf and he was walking
Speaker 7: the wolf out in that same area again where her
Speaker 7: body had been located. They accused him of robbing a
Speaker 7: Southwestern Bell telephone office, but he told them that he
Speaker 7: could not have done it because he was in a
Speaker 7: field near US Highway to eighty one at the time
Speaker 7: that happened to be where the murder was located. So
Speaker 7: suddenly Danny Laughlan himself had put him at the top
Speaker 7: of their suspect list. He was arrested and eventually tried
Speaker 7: for Gibbs murder. There was a mistrial with a vote
Speaker 7: of eleven to one for acquittal.
Speaker 6: Well, to be fair, he was also a prime se
Speaker 6: respect because he had information or he imparted information to
Speaker 6: people that had previously been only known to the killer.
Speaker 6: According to the police, maybe tell us a little bit
Speaker 6: how he did eventually explain that, but you know, that
Speaker 6: would be pretty good reason for police to suspect him.
Speaker 7: Oh. Yes, he was bragging, particularly when he was in jail,
Speaker 7: and he would brag that he knew about this and
Speaker 7: knew about that he had just inserted himself into the investigation. Also,
Speaker 7: he had been brought in for questioning for the robbery,
Speaker 7: and while he was there he learned some things from
Speaker 7: police talking and from papers that were laying around that
Speaker 7: gave him inside information on the case. And then because
Speaker 7: Danny Laughlin liked a tension and wanted to think that
Speaker 7: he had the inside track on things, he started telling
Speaker 7: people these incidents, in these particulars of the case that
Speaker 7: only a killer would know other than the police.
Speaker 6: So he's definitely his own worst enemy in.
Speaker 8: This case, for sure, definitely so.
Speaker 6: And the police basically thought they really had their men
Speaker 6: in the where they were focused on him, and that's it.
Speaker 7: That's right, that's exactly right. In the Gibbs case, they
Speaker 7: were convinced that Danny Lawflin was the murderer and continued
Speaker 7: to think that for a long time.
Speaker 6: Now. Shortly afterwards after this incident, Ferian moves from Wichita.
Speaker 6: Where does he go and why?
Speaker 7: Well, he moved to Fort Worth and he went on
Speaker 7: the pretense of looking for employment. I think it was
Speaker 7: just getting a little hot and Wichita falls and he
Speaker 7: decided that he'd better take off for a while. But
Speaker 7: he said that he had gone to look for employment.
Speaker 6: Now a little while later, on March twenty fourth, Debor
Speaker 6: and Ken Taylor, who lived in Fort Worth, Texas, are
Speaker 6: having a guest together with friends and family at the
Speaker 6: home and Deborah disappears. Now tell us about this party,
Speaker 6: what was reported to police, and what was their reaction,
Speaker 6: and did police believe that they had a good suspect,
Speaker 6: and if so, who was their prime suspect.
Speaker 7: They did believe they had a suspect, and they thought
Speaker 7: they had a very good suspect. Deborah and Kim were
Speaker 7: having a party in their backyard with friends and family,
Speaker 7: and Debra decided that she wanted to go to the
Speaker 7: local club and Ken said, no, no, We're just going
Speaker 7: to stay here, and so Debor decided that she was
Speaker 7: going to go up to bed. Well, she goes up
Speaker 7: and slips out the front door and goes out with
Speaker 7: the club alone. When Kim went to bed, he didn't
Speaker 7: know where Debor had gone, and he didn't realize until
Speaker 7: the next morning that she had never come home that night.
Speaker 7: So by that evening, which was a Monday evening by
Speaker 7: that time, he decided that he'd better call police because
Speaker 7: he had all family and friends that had been at
Speaker 7: the party and asked if they knew where she was,
Speaker 7: and no one did. They thought that she had just
Speaker 7: gone to bed.
Speaker 8: It was very unusual for her to be.
Speaker 7: Out that late at night. She hadn't even taken her purse.
Speaker 7: But after her body was found, Ken had made a
Speaker 7: statement to the press that it was an animal loose
Speaker 7: somewhere in Fort Worth and that he had to be
Speaker 7: found and stopped because he didn't want this to happen
Speaker 7: to anyone else. Well, the police didn't believe Ken. They
Speaker 7: thought that they were not looking for a stranger, that
Speaker 7: Ken's story did not add up, and they thoroughly believed
Speaker 7: that Ken Taylor had murdered his wife.
Speaker 6: Now, how long after her disappearance was the body found,
Speaker 6: and where was she found or how was she found?
Speaker 6: And when.
Speaker 7: It was found a while later, I don't know exactly
Speaker 7: how long, but it was decomposed and.
Speaker 8: She was just randomly found.
Speaker 7: And he went down to identify the body, but he
Speaker 7: couldn't it was so badly decomposed. She did have on
Speaker 7: the necklace that he had given her, so he was
Speaker 7: certain that that was Deborah, but they really didn't identify
Speaker 7: her except through demo records.
Speaker 6: So the police continued in the next months and beyond
Speaker 6: to suspect Ken Taylor and focus their investigation on him
Speaker 6: and go eventually even try to file charges against Kent Taylor.
Speaker 6: Is that what happens?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Absolutely, for years they suspected Ken Taylor. In fact, they
Speaker 7: always did until the events that happened later in wichitall Falls.
Speaker 8: But they were.
Speaker 7: Convinced that it was Ken, and even some of his
Speaker 7: family members began to suspect that, well, maybe it was him.
Speaker 7: The police were so adamant.
Speaker 8: He was pretty.
Speaker 7: Pretty well run through it with the police department and
Speaker 7: constant questioning and so forth.
Speaker 6: Just another casualty out of this. Yeah, now there's another woman,
Speaker 6: another victim, Ellen Blaugh, who goes missing. Who is she?
Speaker 6: Three weeks later she has found Did police have any
Speaker 6: evidence linking these murders at this time?
Speaker 7: No, they still didn't. Of course, richital Falls didn't know
Speaker 7: about Debor Taylor and fort Worth. They had no idea
Speaker 7: that farreen Waldrup knew all of these women. Ellen Blaw
Speaker 7: was also a student at Midwestern State University. She often
Speaker 7: visited friends in the same apartment building that faren Waldrup
Speaker 7: lived in. She also worked at a shop that was
Speaker 7: just down the Street from where Farren Waldrup worked, so
Speaker 7: that was a yet another law enforcement agency. So we
Speaker 7: had three law enforcement agencies, all working individual cases, no
Speaker 7: one sharing information with each other.
Speaker 8: So they really.
Speaker 7: Weren't working together and had no idea that they were
Speaker 7: connected in any way.
Speaker 6: And also evidence of that as well as our next
Speaker 6: My next question is a gentleman named Larry Granger is
Speaker 6: important person in this story as well. Who is Larry
Speaker 6: Granger and how is he involved with this case?
Speaker 7: Larry Granger was really a very important player in this
Speaker 7: He was a friend of Waldrop's.
Speaker 8: He phoned the.
Speaker 7: Wichital Fall police and told them that Waldrop had a
Speaker 7: connection to the four women in wichital Falls who had
Speaker 7: been killed. He also informed them that Walter that Waldrop
Speaker 7: had a devil edged knife that they always carried with him.
Speaker 7: And Granger's statements were put in a central file, but
Speaker 7: they were never made part of any solved murder. So
Speaker 7: his information really just kind of slipped through the cracks
Speaker 7: and he only told one agency versus the three agencies
Speaker 7: that were working these cases.
Speaker 6: Now, Farian and his wife, I'm going a little bit
Speaker 6: backwards here in time, and you can you can qualify
Speaker 6: this whole thing here what happens with Farian and his
Speaker 6: wife and her family, and then tell us about the
Speaker 6: move to Galveston, Texas.
Speaker 7: Okay. Johanna and Faryn were always having problems, and particularly
Speaker 7: money problems, because he couldn't keep a job and she
Speaker 7: didn't work. Her parents had even loaned them five thousand
Speaker 7: dollars at one time because they were broke. Johna's father
Speaker 7: became very angry when he found out that Faryn had
Speaker 7: spent all of the money on dough. So he decided
Speaker 7: at that point that he was going to meet Johnna
Speaker 7: and the two children in with he and Johna's mother,
Speaker 7: but he refused to let Farren move in with them.
Speaker 7: When John Jackson and his wife were helping Johna move
Speaker 7: Farron arrived, he became very angry that they were taking
Speaker 7: his family, and he grabbed the baby and in a fit,
Speaker 7: he threw the baby up in the air, and Johna's
Speaker 7: mother caught the child before she was able to fall
Speaker 7: to the ground and clung to her to protect her.
Speaker 7: Faryn became even more enraged and he ran upstairs and
Speaker 7: to get a knife. Well first, before he did that.
Speaker 8: He told.
Speaker 7: His father in law that he had always wanted to
Speaker 7: get a piece of him, and he went to strike
Speaker 7: John Jackson that he hit Faren squarely in the face.
Speaker 7: Before that could happened, Faryn then ran upstairs. He returned
Speaker 7: with a butcher knife in his hand just as the
Speaker 7: Jackson's and his family were pulling away in the car.
Speaker 7: Farren showed up a short time later at the Jackson's home,
Speaker 7: but he was met at the front door with John
Speaker 7: Jackson holding a three point fifty eight in his hand
Speaker 7: and sirens blaring in the background.
Speaker 8: They had called the police because he was there.
Speaker 7: He fled the scene. A short time later is when
Speaker 7: he met Tina Kimbrew, who was one of his victims
Speaker 7: as well.
Speaker 8: Farren was depressed. He was guilt ridden.
Speaker 7: After he had taken the life of Tina Kimbrew, and
Speaker 7: he drove four hundred miles south to Galveston, Texas.
Speaker 8: It's on the Gulf.
Speaker 7: He decided, sitting in his motel room, that he needed
Speaker 7: to call nine one one. He told the operator he
Speaker 7: was going to kill himself. When the police arrived in
Speaker 7: response to that, he told them that he had killed
Speaker 7: a Tina Kimbrew in Wichita Falls, Okay.
Speaker 6: Now he had confessed to Tina Kimbrew's murder, and then
Speaker 6: he pled guilty in court. Well, I don't want to
Speaker 6: rush the turn of events here. Tell us a little
Speaker 6: bit about that Tina. He confesses to the murder. What
Speaker 6: does he specifically confess to other than saying that he
Speaker 6: has killed her? Does he give any details? Does he
Speaker 6: give any motive for why he's done this? Tell us
Speaker 6: a little bit about that.
Speaker 7: No, he really doesn't. He said that Tina was his friend,
Speaker 7: He didn't mean to do it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he was using drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 7: He had all of his excuses. The interesting part of
Speaker 7: the story is that as he was confessing to Tina's murder,
Speaker 7: he never mentioned any other women that he had assaulted
Speaker 7: or killed. So he only stuck to the tena story,
Speaker 7: and he's stuck to his contingion that it was an
Speaker 7: accident and that he was under the influence of drugs
Speaker 7: and alcohol at the time.
Speaker 6: Excuse me now, Farion Wardriff receives a thirty five year
Speaker 6: sentence for the murder. How does he then proceed with
Speaker 6: his new life in prison? What is his demeanor? What
Speaker 6: does he does? He does he start working towards getting out?
Speaker 6: What is he has an attitudal change what happens in prison.
Speaker 7: In prison, he was pretty much a model prisoner. He
Speaker 7: began studying the Bible, as so many of them do.
Speaker 7: He began writing for the newspaper at the prison there,
Speaker 7: and he was pretty well keeping his nose clean and
Speaker 7: just going along and doing what he was supposed to do.
Speaker 7: Four years after receiving the sentence, he was up for
Speaker 7: parole yet a second time, which Robert Kimbrew, which was
Speaker 7: Tina's dad, just couldn't believe it. He was furious because
Speaker 7: this man had been for parole.
Speaker 8: Not once, but twice.
Speaker 7: So he gathered more than two thousand letters protesting the
Speaker 7: release of the convicted killer. He thought really hard to
Speaker 7: keep Waldrop in prison, and his efforts paid off. He
Speaker 7: stayed in prison for eleven years.
Speaker 6: Now, in prison, Robert Kimbrew had the opportunity to face
Speaker 6: the killer and ask him some questions that were nagging
Speaker 6: on his mind, and Wardrop had agreed that he wanted
Speaker 6: to say some things to the victim's father. What transpired
Speaker 6: at that meeting.
Speaker 7: That was set up by the Victim Services with the
Speaker 7: Texas Department of Criminal Justice the prison system here, they
Speaker 7: agreed to meet. They met for four and a half hours,
Speaker 7: and there's always a mediator that is there to make
Speaker 7: sure that things go well. Walter bled to Kimbre, which
Speaker 7: is not surprising. He said that he was a straight
Speaker 7: A student and very popular in school, which we knew
Speaker 7: was a lie. Robert Kimber didn't know at the time.
Speaker 7: Then he got into trouble with drugs and alcohol and
Speaker 7: he admitted that to mister Kimbrew. He also lied about
Speaker 7: his father. He said that he was extremely ill and
Speaker 7: that he wanted to get out of prison to be
Speaker 7: able to see him to spend time with him. He
Speaker 7: also said that Tino, it is.
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Speaker 6: We're just necessary ETI, where everybody lost the terms and
Speaker 6: conditions eating plus was.
Speaker 7: The only person he ever heard that he had never
Speaker 7: hurt anyone else in his life. Waldrop said that he
Speaker 7: was truly sorry for Tina's death, and evidently it's somewhat
Speaker 7: touched Kimbrew. He hoped that He told Waldrop that he
Speaker 7: hoped that he saw Tina's face every day of his life,
Speaker 7: not as a punishment, but as a reminder to stay
Speaker 7: clean and stay sober, and that this would never happen
Speaker 7: again to anyone else. He also told Waldrop that if
Speaker 7: he ever felt out of control again, that to call
Speaker 7: him or to call someone else and reach out for help.
Speaker 7: And at the end of the visit, Robert Kimbrew extended
Speaker 7: his hand to far and Waldrop and they shook hands.
Speaker 6: That's that's fascinating, incredible, the psychopathic killer in the mind.
Speaker 6: Why did he did he give an explanation why he
Speaker 6: killed his daughter?
Speaker 7: Though not really, I mean, other than it was an accident,
Speaker 7: that's all he ever said. He never really gave a reason.
Speaker 6: He blamed it primarily on the drugs itself.
Speaker 7: On the drugs, and that he was angry at his
Speaker 7: wife whenever he saw a victim's face, he was seeing
Speaker 7: Jona's faith, and that he was carrying out these acts
Speaker 7: to punish Jahna, not the women.
Speaker 6: Now you haven't mentioned it, because I know that religion,
Speaker 6: or the at least the pretense of Wardrope finding religion
Speaker 6: in prison at this time when he meets Robert Kimbrew,
Speaker 6: is he again born again Christian? Or is he a
Speaker 6: very devout religious person in prison? And do you think
Speaker 6: that might have affected Robert Kimbrew in his act of
Speaker 6: forgiveness of him?
Speaker 7: Could have been some way. Farren does contend that he
Speaker 7: found Christ in prison, that he studied the Bible there,
Speaker 7: and that he was a changed person because of that.
Speaker 7: In the five and a half hours that they spoke,
Speaker 7: I'm sure that there were times when he told Robert
Speaker 7: Kibrew those things. He also said that God had forgiven
Speaker 7: him and that he accepted what had happened as far
Speaker 7: as his sentence and so forth as punishment.
Speaker 6: Very interesting, Now, after eleven years Wardrobe is released. How
Speaker 6: did he conduct himself once he was released from prison?
Speaker 6: What did he do well?
Speaker 7: He went to Alney, Texas, which is only a few
Speaker 7: miles from Wichital Falls about thirty forty five miles and
Speaker 7: that's where his parents lived. His father went to their
Speaker 7: church that they belonged to and he told the congregation
Speaker 7: that his son was getting out of prison and that
Speaker 7: he asked for their forgiveness for him. That he asked
Speaker 7: they love him and accept him into the church and
Speaker 7: to support him. Parrin was wearing an electronic leg monitor
Speaker 7: as part of his parole requirements and that restricted his movement,
Speaker 7: so he really never went outside of Onny. He was
Speaker 7: afraid that the people wouldn't accept him, and he had
Speaker 7: to make up some reason why he had this leg
Speaker 7: monitor on other than he had maliciously killed Tina Kimbrew.
Speaker 7: So he told them that he had committed vehicular manslaughter.
Speaker 7: He thought that was a lesser charge and that that
Speaker 7: would suffice since he told them that he had had
Speaker 7: an alcohol problem and he was overcoming that. He became
Speaker 7: very involved in that church and he asked to be
Speaker 7: a part of the Wednesday night services and he even
Speaker 7: was asked to get his testimony to the youth of
Speaker 7: the church. Then friends introduced him to Glenda Kelly. She
Speaker 7: was five years older than Barren, and they dated a while,
Speaker 7: but not very long, and they were married, and even
Speaker 7: though Farah's brother Bryce encouraged him to tell Glenna the
Speaker 7: truth of what had happened to Tina Kimbrew, he said no,
Speaker 7: that he couldn't do that, that he couldn't tell her
Speaker 7: the truth, and he wouldn't tell her.
Speaker 8: He never did tell her. Prior to his second arrest.
Speaker 7: He went to work at the Allney door and screen company.
Speaker 7: He was very well liked employee and he was a
Speaker 7: hard worker. I spoke to his boss there and they
Speaker 7: thought very highly of him.
Speaker 6: Right, so he marries Glenna Kelly. What's their life like
Speaker 6: other than he's now preaching in the doing Sunday school
Speaker 6: instruction and preaching in the church. He's turned his life around.
Speaker 6: He has a secret from the entire community, really his
Speaker 6: father's support. How many more years of what's happened in
Speaker 6: the next few years and then suddenly the bottom falls
Speaker 6: out of Fairy and Wardrobe's life.
Speaker 7: Well, while he was living in Alney, the prosecutors for
Speaker 7: both Wichita County and Clay County had their investigators looking
Speaker 7: over the unsolved murders, and so they were going through
Speaker 7: all of the files checking to see if there was
Speaker 7: anything that connected them. At all or anything that they
Speaker 7: could find. They found that the DNA connected them, that
Speaker 7: both women had been sexually assaulted, and they had DNA
Speaker 7: frozen DNA samples from those cases. Then they found a
Speaker 7: note in one of the files, and that note was
Speaker 7: in regard to Thomas Granger's report to the police that
Speaker 7: twice he had called them and said that he suspected
Speaker 7: Barren Waldrop of the murders. In fact, the second time,
Speaker 7: Granger had even worked with the private investigator to link
Speaker 7: Waldrop to the women, but no one had ever acted
Speaker 7: on that.
Speaker 8: So Investigator.
Speaker 7: Little and Paul Smith they found this information to be
Speaker 7: very interesting and they decided that they wanted to look
Speaker 7: at Waldrop just a little bit more.
Speaker 6: Okay, now, before we get into what happens next, what meanwhile,
Speaker 6: back back in the halls of justice, what's happened with
Speaker 6: Ken Taylor, and what's happened with the the biker just
Speaker 6: can't remember his name right.
Speaker 7: There, Danny Laughlin.
Speaker 8: Danny Laughlin.
Speaker 7: They never retried a second time. He moved to Colorado
Speaker 7: because he felt very persecuted in Wichitalk County, which I'm
Speaker 7: sure he was. People looked at him as the murderer
Speaker 7: and while he was in Colorado, he was killed in
Speaker 7: an accident, and so he his name was never exonerated
Speaker 7: until after he was gone, after it was too late.
Speaker 7: Ken Taylor lost everything, He lost his family, he lost
Speaker 7: his business, he lost everything because of what he considered
Speaker 7: the persecution of law enforcement and for worth because they
Speaker 7: continued for fifteen years to every once in a while
Speaker 7: come back to him and ask him questions and interrogate
Speaker 7: him about the death of his wife.
Speaker 6: That's incredible. And the thing was with Daddy Laughlin. He
Speaker 6: was very for not to be convicted at that first trial.
Speaker 7: He really was, and I think that primarily the reason
Speaker 7: that he wasn't was because the district attorney brought in
Speaker 7: three jail house snitches as they called them, and they
Speaker 7: testified against him, and they weren't credible at all, and
Speaker 7: the jury just didn't by their stories.
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, incredible, Okay, So I just wanted to make
Speaker 6: sure people knew because that's an incredibly interesting and unique
Speaker 6: aspect of a story of all that devastation with the police. So,
Speaker 6: I mean, it's always hindsight is much better than in retrospect,
Speaker 6: but still, the police really did drop the ball in
Speaker 6: that case. Now, now Farian is in linked. They say,
Speaker 6: you have a DNA link between the two Sims and
Speaker 6: Gifts and Gibbs, and so now what happens next.
Speaker 7: As a result, well, Faryn was on their radar and
Speaker 7: they decided that they needed a sample from him to
Speaker 7: determine if it matched the samples from Sims and Gibbs.
Speaker 7: Well John Little, the DA's investigator from Wichitaal County, drove
Speaker 7: up to Olney and to the Alney Door and Screen Company.
Speaker 7: He sat in his car and he watched Waldrop. And
Speaker 7: Waldrup was in a car with his wife visiting on
Speaker 7: his break. He was drinking a cup of coffee from
Speaker 7: a paper cup and he was drinking eating some cheese crackers.
Speaker 7: When he exited that car, he threw them into a
Speaker 7: trash barrel, threw the cup into the trash barrel. John
Speaker 7: Little went across the street from where he had been
Speaker 7: watching Waldrop and he picked up the cup out of
Speaker 7: the trash. In fact, Waldrop asked him what he wanted
Speaker 7: if he could help him, and he said, well, I
Speaker 7: need a dip cup. In Texas, at least a lot
Speaker 7: of people chewed tobacco. Men chewed tobacco and they spit
Speaker 7: into a cup, and so Farren said, sure, take what
Speaker 7: you need. Well, John Little noticed the cup with crackers
Speaker 7: cheese crackers on the rim and he knew that was
Speaker 7: the one that Farren had just disposed of, so he
Speaker 7: took it. Farren told him he could have it. Therefore
Speaker 7: it became evidence, and he took it back. They sent
Speaker 7: it to the lab to be tested to see if
Speaker 7: the DNA matched.
Speaker 6: And what was the result it did?
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: The company Jean Screen called the DA's office and gave
Speaker 7: them the results and they were just ecstatic. They said,
Speaker 7: we've got him, you know, after all these years, we
Speaker 7: have the connection. And so he was arrested. He in fact,
Speaker 7: he was interesting enough. He was arrested at his his
Speaker 7: parole officer's office the day that he was to have
Speaker 7: the electronic monitor removed from his leg. Once that had
Speaker 7: been removed, he would have been able to travel anywhere
Speaker 7: he wanted to a greater distance away from all need,
Speaker 7: back into Wichita Falls, back into Fort Worth, wherever he
Speaker 7: had wanted to.
Speaker 6: Now Farian did not tell authorities the truth. One questioned,
Speaker 6: and then he asked to speak to them. He wanted
Speaker 6: to talk. I guess he had gone back to his son.
Speaker 6: Then he decided he wanted to talk. What did he
Speaker 6: finally tell police in February nineteen ninety nine about other murders?
Speaker 6: And why do you think he confessed? What compelled him
Speaker 6: to do that?
Speaker 7: Well, he says he had talked with his wife that
Speaker 7: morning after his arrest, and that they had prayed about
Speaker 7: it and talked about it, and that he decided he
Speaker 7: needed to tell everything. So he sent word to John
Speaker 7: Little that he wanted to share some more information with them.
Speaker 7: When they took him into the interview room, John Little
Speaker 7: turned on a tape recorder and Parren began to tell them, indeed,
Speaker 7: the murders of Sims, Gibbs, and blah and where he
Speaker 7: had done it, how he had done it, and so forth.
Speaker 7: Just as Little was going to turn the recorder off,
Speaker 7: Farren said, oh wait, my consciences has to keep me going.
Speaker 7: There's one more, but it's not in wichital Falls. And
Speaker 7: that's when he told them about Deborah Taylor. Faar and
Speaker 7: Waldert would never have been connected with the Deborah Taylor
Speaker 7: case had he not told the wichital Falls authorities, because
Speaker 7: there was no DNA evidence in that case.
Speaker 6: Now did he give what was his reason for the murders?
Speaker 6: What did he say was the reason for those? I
Speaker 6: know you said that he was mad at his his wife.
Speaker 6: Did he stick with that story?
Speaker 8: Is that what he said? Exactly? What he stuck with?
Speaker 7: Yes, that every woman when he looked in their face,
Speaker 7: he was looking into Johna's face. He blamed it on
Speaker 7: drug and alcohol abuse. Of course, he blamed it on
Speaker 7: everything that his inability to control his actions. He confessed,
Speaker 7: I believe because there was no way out. They knew,
Speaker 7: he knew they had him. Why he confessed to Deborah Taylor?
Speaker 7: I don't know unless at that point he just thought,
Speaker 7: well four, what's five? He did profess to believe in God,
Speaker 7: said he believed in God's forgiveness, and that he may
Speaker 7: have thought in his own mind that if he said
Speaker 7: told everybody everything, that he might get leniency. Who really
Speaker 7: knows what goes through these guys' minds.
Speaker 6: Right now, you have a death penalty in Texas, and
Speaker 6: so obviously it becomes a death penalty case if I'm
Speaker 6: not correct. The other thing is, yeah, The other thing
Speaker 6: is is that what is his psychological state and does
Speaker 6: that ever become a defense issue or is there any
Speaker 6: talk of that, how does that working? Any psychologists see
Speaker 6: him and examine him.
Speaker 8: They did, but there was nothing.
Speaker 7: There that they could use for a defense. In Texas,
Speaker 7: insanity defense is next to impossible to prove and to
Speaker 7: get not guilted by reason of insanity because it becomes
Speaker 7: a legal definition, not a medical definition, and he was
Speaker 7: not legally insane. He he has some quirk uh, he
Speaker 7: is ocd obsessive, compulsive about the way he dresses, the
Speaker 7: way everything has to be on a table in front
Speaker 7: of him. He's quirky, but he's not insane, and that
Speaker 7: could not be used in a defense for him.
Speaker 6: Now, was because the death penalty was there? Was there
Speaker 6: some sort of plea bargain? Was there a full formal trial?
Speaker 6: What happened?
Speaker 7: Well, actually I was at the trial and it was
Speaker 7: a very It was a big surprise to everyone in
Speaker 7: attendance because when they started the trial, the prosecutor said
Speaker 7: he was ready, and the defense said they were ready,
Speaker 7: and then the defense said, your honor, we would like
Speaker 7: to be guilty. Well, very Maca, the district attorney was
Speaker 7: ready to go with a full fledged guilt innocence phase
Speaker 7: of the trial. Well, at that point, because he had
Speaker 7: pled guilty. They went straight to the penalty phase and
Speaker 7: Maka presented all of his evidence that he had for
Speaker 7: the guilt innocence phase into the punishment phase, which means
Speaker 7: that he could bring in.
Speaker 8: All of the other victims. Maca had a.
Speaker 7: Large poster board with all the women's pictures on it
Speaker 7: that he kept facing the jury the entire trial, and
Speaker 7: so those juries, that jury could picture those women and
Speaker 7: they became human to them. They became real.
Speaker 8: People, not just photos.
Speaker 7: They became alive to them, and that was pretty impressive.
Speaker 7: But they went straight to the punishment fad.
Speaker 6: Now were the victims any of the victims' families president
Speaker 6: at the trial?
Speaker 7: Yes, all of the victims' families, even Kim Taylor was
Speaker 7: president at the trial. The Kim Brews were probably well.
Speaker 7: They displayed the most anger of any the Sims family,
Speaker 7: which is the one that he was actually convicted of.
Speaker 7: He took in plea bargain's life sentences for the others,
Speaker 7: but he was found guilty and given the death penalty
Speaker 7: for Terry Sims Burter. The Sims were just relieved, but
Speaker 7: it was over that he had been found guilty and
Speaker 7: it was behind them. But the Kimbrews really held more
Speaker 7: hostility than any of the others because I don't know why,
Speaker 7: because he had served at least eleven years for the
Speaker 7: murder of their daughter. But I guess because he had
Speaker 7: lied to Robert kimbrew so much during that mediation time
Speaker 7: that he was very angry.
Speaker 6: It definitely used him. You say Ken Taylor was also.
Speaker 8: Present, Yes, he was there.
Speaker 6: What was it like for him and what was his reaction?
Speaker 8: It was very difficult. He cried.
Speaker 7: His daughter was there with them, which they had been
Speaker 7: estranged for years. It was a relief to him for
Speaker 7: the world to know for certain that he had not
Speaker 7: committed murder of his wife, and it was important for
Speaker 7: his daughters to know that. But it was very, very
Speaker 7: difficult because, as he said to me, it doesn't change
Speaker 7: how bad his life had been for the last years,
Speaker 7: because this man would not take responsibility.
Speaker 6: Well, and just his wife being murdered just incredible. How
Speaker 6: you You know, most people will never recover from that alone,
Speaker 6: let alone being accused and that family destroyed. Now what
Speaker 6: was the end result? You say he did receive the
Speaker 6: death penalty.
Speaker 8: He did receive the.
Speaker 7: Death penalty for the death of Terry Simms. And he
Speaker 7: received life sentences for Tony Gibbs, Ellen Blas, and Debora Taylor.
Speaker 7: So he has been on death row since nineteen ninety
Speaker 7: nine in Texas and Livingston, Texas.
Speaker 6: Has there any been any other developments in the case
Speaker 6: at all or been taken care?
Speaker 8: Actually? Yes.
Speaker 7: In fact, last month in April of this year, a
Speaker 7: federal judge said that he had to be granted a
Speaker 7: new punishment trial or agreed to or the district attorney
Speaker 7: had to agree to give him a life sentence. They
Speaker 7: said that he had ineffective counsel and effective defense, that
Speaker 7: during the trial his public defender had not brought out
Speaker 7: the fact that while he was incarcerated before that he
Speaker 7: had been a model prisoner, that he had written for
Speaker 7: the newspaper and done all these fine things in prison.
Speaker 7: Because one of the things that they asked them during
Speaker 7: a punishment phase, they asked the jury, do you believe
Speaker 7: he would be a threat to society, even to prison
Speaker 7: society if he were allowed to live, And that was
Speaker 7: not brought out, and so they had given him the
Speaker 7: death penalty.
Speaker 6: So he is entitled to another punishment trial or has
Speaker 6: that already occurred?
Speaker 7: No, Actually, I don't believe the district attorney has made
Speaker 7: the decision. Yet my feeling is that they'll retry it
Speaker 7: because my feeling is that they want him to die
Speaker 7: on the gurney rather than have the life sentences.
Speaker 8: In Texas, a life sentence today is.
Speaker 7: Forty years minimum. It's not a life sentence, But in
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty five it was like fifteen years, So I mean,
Speaker 7: he could get out virtually. Now. I don't think the
Speaker 7: pardon in Parole's board would allow that, but you never know,
Speaker 7: with overcrowding its prisons and so forth. So my guess
Speaker 7: is that, and the same district attorney is still there
Speaker 7: in Richital County, my guess is that they'll retry it.
Speaker 6: Well, wouldn't they have consecutive sentences? You say he had
Speaker 6: three other life sentences, and if even if he had
Speaker 6: four life sentences, wouldn't that just amount to, you know,
Speaker 6: one hundred and twenty years.
Speaker 8: So well, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I don't know how they did them, whether they stack
Speaker 7: them or their consecutive or they're concurrent, I don't know.
Speaker 7: In the information that I have available, I really.
Speaker 8: Don't know that.
Speaker 7: Normally a lot of times when they do that, they
Speaker 7: stack them versus making them consecutive.
Speaker 6: Right, I see making them concurrent.
Speaker 8: Then concurrent, I mean, yes.
Speaker 6: Yes, oh that's problematic for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Also that's a very interesting, very interesting Now, so basically,
Speaker 6: what was your experience like having gone through all of this,
Speaker 6: How much of an ordeal was it for you, or
Speaker 6: what tell us about your overall experience about researching and
Speaker 6: writing this book.
Speaker 8: Well, actually it was easier than some in that.
Speaker 7: They had been grant the defensive that granted a change
Speaker 7: of venue actually to the county that I lived in,
Speaker 7: which Tall Fall in Wichitall County is a couple of
Speaker 7: counties over from me. So versus going up and having
Speaker 7: to stay in a hotel and go to trial every day,
Speaker 7: I got to go home every night, and so that
Speaker 7: was very nice. Also, it's always nice for a writer
Speaker 7: to be able to attend a trial because you get
Speaker 7: to speak with everyone, you get to interact with them
Speaker 7: at recesses and so forth. So it was an experience
Speaker 7: that was a little bit more.
Speaker 8: It was a little easier as.
Speaker 7: Far as the research goes, but then there were so
Speaker 7: many to research that made it a little difficult as well.
Speaker 8: So it was kind of a catch twenty two.
Speaker 6: What was Fairy and Wardrobe's demeanor at the trial? What
Speaker 6: was he like?
Speaker 8: He was fairly arrogant.
Speaker 7: He was very upset with his defense attorney and showed it.
Speaker 7: He would lean over and ask him to ask certain
Speaker 7: questions and his attorney would shake his head and he
Speaker 7: would become angry. I spoke with the investigator for the
Speaker 7: Public Defender's office, and he drove her crazy because he
Speaker 7: had to have a certain pair of socks and a
Speaker 7: certain belt for court each day because he has this
Speaker 7: OCD thing going. But he, I mean, he was quiet.
Speaker 7: But also it's very interesting because the second chair of
Speaker 7: the Public Defender's office was a female and she was
Speaker 7: the one that sent next to him, and occasionally she
Speaker 7: would put her arm around him. And I asked Stry
Speaker 7: about that, and she said, well, I was trying to
Speaker 7: the jury that you know, I'm a weamin and.
Speaker 8: I'm not afraid of him.
Speaker 7: And uh So there are always those little ploys and
Speaker 7: those little tricks they used, just like Dorry told me
Speaker 7: that before she left the motel room, uh for the
Speaker 7: first day of trial, she grabbed the motel Bible out
Speaker 7: of the drawer and had him carry it with him
Speaker 7: each day.
Speaker 8: Just as a prop Well.
Speaker 7: You kill all those those little colorful displace that you
Speaker 7: don't catch if you're not in trial.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean at that point they are right fighting
Speaker 6: for his life. Did you really think, oh absolutely, did
Speaker 6: you think though he had Did you think he had
Speaker 6: ineffective council, especially in fact in the in the pardon
Speaker 6: me sorry, given the fact that they didn't offer much
Speaker 6: of a defense when they were at trial, Do you
Speaker 6: think there was any grounds to the charge that he
Speaker 6: had ineffective council?
Speaker 7: Yes, personally I do. John Curry, which was first chair
Speaker 7: for Public Defender, he never asked questions. I'm not sure
Speaker 7: he ever asked a question. If he did, he didn't
Speaker 7: ask over two questions. Of all the witnesses that were
Speaker 7: presented by the state in his posing arguments, they get
Speaker 7: like forty five minutes. He took five minutes and cried
Speaker 7: in front of the jury, and all he could say
Speaker 7: is this man has changed, He's found God, and he
Speaker 7: deserves to live.
Speaker 8: And he had tears.
Speaker 7: And to me, that is an effective defense.
Speaker 6: That's I think maybe you should get that from the
Speaker 6: client or from the defendant itself. Shed some tears and
Speaker 6: show some remorse. That might have worked. This is an
Speaker 6: incredible book. It's called Body Hunter. If people have been
Speaker 6: listening for the last hour, Patricia Springer, Now, pat what's
Speaker 6: been going on. Tell us a little bit more about
Speaker 6: some of your other work, and tell us especially about
Speaker 6: the latest project that you have. We've got about three.
Speaker 7: Minutes now, Okay, the latest project, in fact, it's just
Speaker 7: released this week. The name of this book is Lisa Charmer.
Speaker 7: It's a story out of Fort Worth, Texas. Stephen Barbie
Speaker 7: was recently married. He had been married for two months,
Speaker 7: and he had a pregnant girlfriend that his wife didn't
Speaker 7: know about, and he killed her so that she wouldn't
Speaker 7: tell his wife about the baby. While he was killing
Speaker 7: Lisa Underwood, her seven year old son came into the
Speaker 7: room could identify him, so he.
Speaker 8: Also killed the child.
Speaker 7: Lisa was eight months pregnant. So in three people god
Speaker 7: that day and in Texas, just killing a pregnant woman
Speaker 7: in her fetus would be capital murder, but they didn't
Speaker 7: take that direction. It is capital murder because if people
Speaker 7: but they didn't go to the to the defense of
Speaker 7: I mean to the prosecution of the baby being killed.
Speaker 7: Stephen Barbie dumped her body in an adjacent county, and
Speaker 7: then he confessed, then he recanted. But the really tragic
Speaker 7: part of all of this is that I've become very
Speaker 7: close with Lisa Underwood's mother, and that was her entire family.
Speaker 7: She had one child and one grandchild and one grandchild
Speaker 7: on the way, and so she was left with nothing.
Speaker 7: Jackie Barbie Stephen's mother had lost two children already. Her
Speaker 7: daughter would became ill and died, her other son was
Speaker 7: killed in one car car accident, and now her only
Speaker 7: child is on death row. So these are two mothers
Speaker 7: that have lost virtually everything.
Speaker 6: Sure, yea. There no happy endings in true crime.
Speaker 7: Usually no, there's not, no, not very much.
Speaker 6: Even if it brought to justice, that's a little little comfort.
Speaker 6: Then there really is no closure. So you are also
Speaker 6: an author of a few more books. Tell us about
Speaker 6: the titles of some of the other books.
Speaker 7: And okay, and Never See Her Again is the story
Speaker 7: of a kidnapping of a six year old child, the
Speaker 7: massive man hunt for her, and the prosecution of her kidnapper.
Speaker 7: Because he was a registered sex offender, it was an
Speaker 7: automatic life sentence when he was convicted. It took two trials.
Speaker 7: The first trial was a hury and but the prosecutor
Speaker 7: persisted and got a conviction on the second trial, and
Speaker 7: five years after she was kidnapped, her body was found.
Speaker 7: And then I have a book called Murder So Cold
Speaker 7: that takes place in Kalamazoo, Michigan. And that was a
Speaker 7: man who murdered his wife, stuck her in a barrel
Speaker 7: and put the barrel in Lake Erie. They have never located.
Speaker 7: Chris Russell's body blood Stains is another Texas murder. Most
Speaker 7: of my books occur in Texas. The stories are from Texas, although.
Speaker 8: There is one in Tennessee. It's of Krista Pike.
Speaker 7: I love to die for and for many many years,
Speaker 7: she was the youngest woman on death row in the
Speaker 7: United States. She killed at eighteen.
Speaker 6: Incredible, credible. Well, I want to thank you very much,
Speaker 6: Patricia Springer for a very very informative program and in
Speaker 6: a great book, and thank you for discussing body Hunter
Speaker 6: on my program True Murder. Here. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Dan.
Speaker 6: I want to thank you and have a great evening.
Speaker 8: You two night, good night, good night.
Speaker 6: You even listened to the program True Murder with your
Speaker 6: host Stanzepanski. I'll see you next time, good Night,