WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:07.919 It's night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Costin's new radio. 2 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:08.439 And I gave it a great ideal of all. 3 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:14.679 Here is a bulletin from CBS News in Dallas, Texas. 4 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:19.239 Three shots were fired at President Kennedy's motorcade in downtown Dallas. 5 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:23.079 The first reports say that President Kennedy has been seriously 6 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:24.960 wounded by this shooting. 7 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:33.679 The voice of Walter Cronkite on it was a Thursday afternoon. 8 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:34.840 Oh no, I don't let me. 9 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:38.159 It was a Thursday afternoon. Excuse me, it's a Thursday afternoon. 10 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:44.399 In nineteen sixty three, when John Kennedy was assassinated by 11 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:47.799 a gunman, shooting out of the fifth floor of the 12 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:52.880 Texas school Book Depository as his depository, as his motorcade 13 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:58.200 made its way through Dealey Plasm. I have followed that 14 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.719 case for a long time. Ported on the assassination on 15 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.079 the fifteenth anniversary in nineteen seventy eight, twentieth anniversary and 16 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.400 nineteen eighty three from Dallas, Texas. Interviewed most many of 17 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.200 the principles. But no one who I know knows as 18 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:18.480 much about what happened and also as much about what 19 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.439 we don't know. Is my friend Tom Semilac. Tom Semilac, 20 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:24.959 in the mid nineteen ninety served as the deputy director 21 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:28.280 of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board, 22 00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:31.040 an independent federal agency that was responsible for the review 23 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.439 and public release of classified records on the assassination, which 24 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:37.760 you now housed at the National Archives. Tom has been 25 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:42.079 my guest before, and he joins us again tonight. Tom, 26 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.760 another sad anniversary. Sixty one years ago today we lost 27 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:50.519 the thirty fifth President of the United States. 28 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:54.040 Good evening, Dan, and thanks for having me. Yes, it's 29 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:58.159 hard to believe that it's sixty one years ago today 30 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.280 that President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, And of course 31 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.519 for those of US Bostonians and New Englanders, and of 32 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:09.879 course all Americans, but particularly here a special and very 33 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:11.360 profoundly sad impact. 34 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:17.280 Tom. You've had a stellar legal career. 35 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:21.039 You're the general counsel, head of government relations for John Hancock, 36 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:25.400 the US segment of the Toronto based manual Life and 37 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:29.800 you're also a member of that company's leadership team. You've 38 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:34.479 been with John Hancock since nineteen ninety nine, twenty five 39 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.719 years now. You also had served as an Assistant Attorney 40 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:42.240 General here in Massachusetts, I believe when Scott Harshbarker was 41 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:45.159 Attorney General. So you've had a very interesting career. But 42 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.039 I want to focus on your work with the Kennedy 43 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:54.439 Assassination Records Review Board. You were intimately evolved in this 44 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.479 in the nineteen nineties, which would have been about thirty 45 00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:03.199 some odd years after the assassination. We are now sixty 46 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:06.599 one years after the assassination. How much more do we 47 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:12.599 know now than when your organization that tried to do 48 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:17.360 such great work and often I think felt steymied. How 49 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.319 much more information have we learned quantitatively in the last 50 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.360 thirty years in your opinion. 51 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.759 Well, Dan, I think that the barometer of how much 52 00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:33.080 more we've learned can be gauged by what authors, historians, 53 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:37.159 and researchers have done with the records that the Assassination 54 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:42.719 Records Review Board declassify and sent to the National Archives 55 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.000 Facility in College Park, Maryland, and that's where the records 56 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:51.639 are housed. There are records that are available online, and 57 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:57.120 it really is satisfying to know that the work of 58 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:01.919 the Review Board has led to a more complete history, 59 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.080 if you will, of the assassination and the events surrounding it. 60 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:10.479 The mandate for the Review Board was not to reinvestigate 61 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.280 and come to any conclusion following up on what the 62 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.720 Warren Commission had done in nineteen sixty four and the 63 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.480 House Select Committee on Assassinations had done in the late seventies. Rather, 64 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.240 it was at that point, as you noted, thirty years 65 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:30.639 after the assassination, rather to release the records for all 66 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:36.279 Americans to go find and research and delve into and 67 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:42.000 if they won't come to their own conclusions about what happened, well, 68 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:42.920 this was. 69 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.399 The murder of a president of the United States in 70 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.360 broad daylight in Dallas, Texas at high noon. Just to 71 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:55.360 get people a little bit familiar who weren't around at 72 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:58.480 that time. And again at sixty one years so you 73 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:00.319 would have had to have been eight or two years 74 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:03.040 old to really have specific memory. Rob, I know you 75 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.279 have three cuts. Play the second catch. Just to continue 76 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:06.399 to continue the theme. 77 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.839 The best picture has just been transmitted by wire. It 78 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:14.680 is a picture taken just a moment or two before 79 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.800 the incident. If you can zoom in with that camera, 80 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:19.920 we can get a closer look at this picture. 81 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:24.319 Yeah, and that was probably one of the last pictures 82 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:29.839 of President Kennedy alive just before before the shooting. And 83 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:35.319 then of course there was the announcement that Walter Cronkite 84 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:38.759 need at least it probably was made of the other networks. 85 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:44.560 But we learned that afternoon around this was one thirty 86 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:50.000 Boston time, maybe well maybe a little bit. It's more 87 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:53.079 like two o'clock Boston time, because the shooting had occurred 88 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:56.759 about twelve thirty Dallas time, and this was the This 89 00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:59.199 was when the nation learned from Walter Cronkite that indeed 90 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.439 President Kennedy had been assassinated cut three rob. 91 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:05.000 From Dallas, Texas. 92 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:10.879 The flash apparently official President Kennedy died at one pm 93 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:16.879 Central Standard time two o'clock Eastern Standard time, some thirty 94 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:25.800 eight minutes ago. Vice President and Johnson has left the 95 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:30.040 hospital in Dallas, but we do not know to where 96 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.839 he has proceeded. Presumably he will be taking the oath 97 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.759 of office shortly and become the thirty sixth President of 98 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:40.279 the United States. 99 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.800 Cronkite at all he could do but to compose himself, 100 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.000 and of course Linda Johnson did take the oath of 101 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.680 office from a federal judge. On what that had become 102 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:59.040 if force one and everyone remembers the picture of Linda Johnson, 103 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.360 obviously in a state of shock, and his wife, Lady 104 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:08.680 Bird Johnson, and President Kennedy's widow, Jacqueline Kennedy standing next 105 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:14.399 to the president as that as that plane left left Dallas, 106 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.480 heading back to Washington with the president's body. 107 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.720 My guest is Tom sam Aluk. Tom, I. 108 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:26.639 Want to chat a little bit more about your thoughts, 109 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.519 and I go, I know you're not speaking here officially, 110 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:35.480 but I'm fascinated by the fact that. 111 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.680 We still really don't know for sure. 112 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.720 What events set in motion the assassination of President Kennedy. 113 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.680 I know you've it's been your life, life's work, and 114 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:50.720 I'm sure people will have questions and theories, and I 115 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:55.480 just didn't want this night to pass without our understanding 116 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:59.600 and acknowledgment of a very important night. I remember, I 117 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:04.279 know exactly what I was doing on this very night 118 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:08.079 sixty one years ago. Tonight, I was playing hockey, high 119 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:12.519 school hockey, pre season hockey game, you know, without coaches, 120 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:15.839 at a rink somewhere in the South Shore, which i'd 121 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.360 have to I wouldn't be able to find for a 122 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.360 million dollars, may not even exist. So much time has passed, 123 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:27.600 but it all seemed very weird. You're younger than I am, Tom, 124 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:29.720 if I'm not mistaken, I don't know if you recall 125 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.519 what you were doing that night, you probably would glued 126 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:33.519 to the television like most of America was. 127 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:39.159 Well, i'll date myself, Dan. I am a little younger 128 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:42.879 than you, and I was in the first grade, and 129 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:46.960 I remember, interestingly, they had not told us at school 130 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.399 that the president had been shot. And so I got 131 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:54.320 off the school bus after a complete day of school 132 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.639 and was met by my younger brother, Bob, who was 133 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:00.679 four years old, two years younger than me, and I 134 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.879 remember exactly what he said, and he had learned from 135 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:08.679 being around the TV. And my mother was home, and 136 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.840 I stepped off the bus and he was waiting for me, 137 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:16.759 and he said President Kennedy was shot and jumped in 138 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.559 missus Kennedy's lap. That's what a four year old had 139 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.519 for an understanding of what had happened. And walked up 140 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:29.399 the street with him into my house. And it was 141 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:34.600 not unusual that my mother was in the family room ironing, 142 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:38.519 but what was different was that the TV was on, 143 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:44.200 but it was news and she was crying, and I 144 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:50.320 didn't quite understand. I knew that we had followed President Kennedy, 145 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.799 and my oldest sister Carol, had had scrap books from 146 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:59.080 when President Kennedy had been elected Senator from Massachusetts. But 147 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:02.240 this was different because I knew we didn't know him. 148 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:05.159 But my mother was crying and I knew was it 149 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.879 was bad news. And like so many million Americans that 150 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:14.000 do have memories of that day, it's kind of seared 151 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.039 in your memory forever. 152 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:19.799 Even the memory of a first grader. My guess it's 153 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.039 Tom Semilak served as deputy director the President John F. 154 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:27.399 Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board. We will continue our conversation 155 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.879 with Tom Samilak if you would like to join the 156 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:33.000 conversation six one seven two five four ten thirty or 157 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.399 six one seven a nine ten thirty. 158 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:41.360 My name is Dan Ray. This is night Side. This 159 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:42.519 is a moment in. 160 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:49.039 Time that changed our generation. It changed the world. It 161 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:53.200 was the opening, it was the ending moment of the 162 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.480 peace and prosperity of the nineteen fifties post World War Two, 163 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:02.840 and it opened up some tumultuous years which involved other 164 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.200 assassinations and political unrest and upheaval. And we'll get to 165 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:10.000 all of that with my guest Tom semelek Uh, and 166 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:13.440 we're gon we're gonna drill down a little bit, particularly 167 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:19.440 on now President elect Trump's pledge to get all of 168 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:22.080 the records. And I think I'm correct when I say that. 169 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.720 If I'm not, Tom my friend will correct me. But 170 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:27.159 I believe that Donald Trump has made a pledge that 171 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:30.960 he will get all of the Kennedy assassination records out 172 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:36.679 into the light of public day and transparent and done transparently. 173 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:38.279 We'll continue on Nightside. 174 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:38.879 Stay with us. 175 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:42.000 It's going to be an interesting program. I promise you 176 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:44.120 if you if you're young enough and you don't know 177 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:47.200 a lot about the Kennedy assassination, you definitely want to 178 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:48.879 stick with us. And if you're a little old and 179 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:51.799 you remember it, we'd love to hear your recollections as well. 180 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:53.120 Back on Nightside right after this. 181 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.200 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 182 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:01.080 to Night Side Studios. I'm WBS Radio. 183 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:04.639 You know, I think I misspoke. Kennedy was actually shot 184 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.960 on a Friday. So it was it just so happened 185 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:12.320 that the twenty second of November falls on a Friday. 186 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:17.000 There was it was and you know, this is better 187 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.440 than I do. 188 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.360 Tom, I misspoke. I said it was it was a Thursday. 189 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:26.200 It was actually a Friday that November twenty second. It 190 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.559 was a Friday this year. It was a Friday sixty 191 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:29.240 one years ago. 192 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:29.960 You know. 193 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:35.440 I I just I was talking to someone today, having 194 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:40.279 interviewed Jim Levelle, the Dallas police detective who had was 195 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:45.039 handcuffed handcuffed to Walt Oswald when Oswald was shot by 196 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:45.799 Jack Ruby. 197 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.080 Vell was an interesting guy. 198 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.440 I did you guys ever get a chance to talk 199 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:52.799 with him? 200 00:12:53.960 --> 00:13:00.240 No, we did not. We focused on where the records were, 201 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:05.000 and we did come into contact with a lot of 202 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:10.840 interesting players and characters. One that comes to mind was, actually, 203 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.759 if people saw the nineteen ninety one Oliverstone movie JFK. 204 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:20.720 Kevin Costner plays Jim Garrison, and there were records to 205 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.000 be found in New Orleans, and Garrison was deceased by 206 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:27.279 the time we were in business, but we dealt with 207 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:33.679 people who had records, and we actually dealt with Garrison's successor, 208 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.559 who was Harry Connick Senior, who interestingly the father of 209 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.639 the well known entertainer and he had succeeded Garrison, and 210 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.799 we dealt with his office on the records from the 211 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.080 Garrison investigation. 212 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:55.240 Well, Garrison, if I recall, correctly, had some very specific 213 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:03.320 beliefs and he then got ripped pretty good. I always 214 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.799 felt I wasn't sure if Garrison was as nutty as 215 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.200 people as the media portrayed him, or if he was 216 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.480 right over the target conversely, and that there were people 217 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.440 who wanted to, you know, to discourage people listening to him. 218 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:19.919 What was your impression of Garrison? 219 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:25.240 Well, I think that it's funny that debate continues even today. 220 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:29.759 He did become a judge after Connick defeated him for 221 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:34.200 a district attorney. I think he probably got some things right, 222 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:38.559 but he kind of served the assassination up on a 223 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:39.480 buffet platter. 224 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:40.360 It was like. 225 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:45.159 Everything was there and it probably didn't occur like that. 226 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.000 We may not know everything that happened, but it wasn't 227 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:51.360 every theory that you can imagine. 228 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.080 Yeah, well, it was interesting just getting back to this 229 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.759 Dallas police detective. Anybody who's seen the picture of Oswald 230 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.679 being shot, His name was Jim Level and I interviewed 231 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:05.240 him in nineteen seventy eight. He would have been at 232 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.960 that point he was I guess he was born in 233 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:13.799 nineteen twenty maybe I'm guessing nineteen twenty or something like that. 234 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.240 So when I interviewed him, he. 235 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:21.360 Was very sharp, you know, he was I mean, you know, 236 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.320 wasn't even probably fifty years of age at that point. 237 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.120 He would he survived Pearl Harbor. 238 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:27.559 He was. 239 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.399 He actually was in the Navy and was on duty 240 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.080 as a twenty one year old third class petty officer 241 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:38.840 in Pearl Harbor. So he was at these two significant 242 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:44.879 events that sort of book ended an era in American history, 243 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.159 Pearl Harbor to the assassination of Kennedy. When you think 244 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.799 about it, I mean, World War two ended with the 245 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:59.759 United States having dropped the bomb and becoming the premiere 246 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:04.200 power in the world, and yet in nineteen sixty three, 247 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:09.440 the Kennedy assassination kind of turned the world, our worlds up, 248 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:14.000 our world upside down, followed closely by, you know, the 249 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:19.840 Quagmar of Vietnam, civil rights assassination of Robert F. Kennedy 250 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:24.120 as well as doctor Martin Luther King. Just an interesting guy, 251 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:28.399 almost like a not a Forrest Gump guy, because obviously 252 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.840 this guy was a lot more together. 253 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:36.200 But it's I remember sitting with him and just thinking. 254 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.240 This guy was I did not realize, and he lived 255 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.639 until he was ninety nine years of age. He lived 256 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:47.000 a very full life and died in twenty nineteen. So 257 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.200 I mean he was He was born in nineteen nineteen 258 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:54.600 twenty and as they say, when I interviewed him in 259 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.679 nineteen seventy eighteen, would have been doing the math fifty 260 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.679 eight years of age. He was sharp as attack, recalling 261 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.279 how he reacted and when when Ruby stepped out of 262 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:10.839 the crowd. What's your sense the big picture here? Do 263 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.839 you think we will ever find out the truth? For 264 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.839 a long time, I thought someone was going to give 265 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.000 us a deathbed confession that he was the person who 266 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:24.559 did this or did that. The longer we go, Tom, 267 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:26.440 the less likely I think that is. 268 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:31.400 To be right. I think that Dan, many of us 269 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.880 who have followed the assassination and bet involved in either 270 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:38.839 rec release or in one way or another, have come 271 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.039 to the conclusion in a long time that the unequivocal 272 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:48.079 truth is lost to history. That's unfortunate. It was probably 273 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.119 lost to history a long long time ago, not far, 274 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.119 not long after the assassination itself, because of mistakes that 275 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.799 were made in the investigation, because of the Cold War 276 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.880 environment at the time. I think that there were a 277 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.920 lot of people who did not want to open any 278 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:14.799 doors beyond a lone gunman that could have, in their view, 279 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:20.119 made a very complex and dangerous world even more complex 280 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.279 and dangerous if it was a conspiracy. They didn't want 281 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.680 to find out, so they wanted it to be simple. 282 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.880 And as a result, here we are six sixty one 283 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.759 years later and not knowing what the truth is. And 284 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.799 that's not fair. It has been fair to the American public, 285 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.839 and that's why the review board for which I worked 286 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.440 made the effort to at least to be able to 287 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:52.079 say that all the records are released. Unfortunately, as we'll 288 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.279 probably get into here, that is not yet the case. 289 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.079 But I hope it will become the case that we 290 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.240 can say everything that we know to be part of 291 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:05.039 the records is available to the American public. 292 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.640 Well, I guess it's Tom Samlik. He's was the deputy 293 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.799 director of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records and review 294 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.119 Board President Trump. And if I'm wrong, Tom, correct me here, 295 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.400 because I just got to jump to news in a moment. 296 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:22.519 Had made an issue of this on the campaign trail, 297 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.240 He made an issue of it in twenty sixteen that 298 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.880 he would release all the records that were available. That 299 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.359 did not happen. We can talk about maybe why it 300 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:37.000 didn't happen. But now President Trump has a second bite 301 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.799 at that apple, and I, for one hope, hope that 302 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.920 this great mystery of our lives tom will somehow be 303 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000 clarified for us. Do you read what President Trump said, 304 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.759 both in twenty sixteen or in advance of the twenty 305 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.880 sixteen election and in advance of this election as his 306 00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.960 intention at least whether he follows through And we'll have 307 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.599 to wait and see. But am I reading what he 308 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.440 has said correctly? 309 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.759 Oh, you are definitely correct, Dan. He did not release 310 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.720 all the records when he was president in twenty seventeen. 311 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.920 He said that he would, but he was advised by 312 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.079 certain people in the administration not to do so, so 313 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.480 that left many records, uh not released. But you're correct. 314 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.720 During the campaign he said that he would as a 315 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:33.079 priority that he would he would release the remaining records 316 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:37.000 if he became president again. And as we know, January twentieth, 317 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.680 he will be sworn in as the forty seventh president. 318 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.279 And that is again eight years ago. So as you 319 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.000 mentioned to me today, eight years has passed by. We'll 320 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.319 get into a little bit more. We go to news. 321 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:50.400 If you want to call, we got a couple of 322 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.680 lines that are available six, one, seven, two, five, four, 323 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.960 ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty. 324 00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:58.079 I'm more than willing to talk. 325 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.680 About this longer than this hour, so don't hesitate to 326 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:03.799 fill these phone lines up. We will be back right 327 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.000 after this with Tom Samlac, a great friend and a 328 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.440 great attorney who served as deputy director on the John F. 329 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.400 Kennedy Assassination Records and Review Board, coming back on night Side. 330 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.519 You're on Night Side with Boston's News Radio. 331 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.319 I guess it's Tom Samulak, deputy Director John F. Kennedy 332 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:32.160 Assassination Records and Review Board. Tom, you again know so 333 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:34.400 much more about this than any of us know. I 334 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.079 just got to ask a couple of questions that I 335 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.799 want to get the phone calls. Do you think that 336 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.680 the records which would tell us how this assassination plot 337 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:48.440 came to be? 338 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.759 Because that's that's what we don't know right. 339 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:57.240 Right? And Dan, I think that I've read some articles 340 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.440 today on the sixty first, an first anniversary of the assassination, 341 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.960 and about what remains classified and what they may mean 342 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.880 to the assassination. People should understand that there are no 343 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:17.319 smoking gun documents to be released because the review board 344 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.160 for which I worked in the mid nineties would have 345 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.279 released them at that time. What isn't released and what 346 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.720 we kept classified at the time, what was supposed to 347 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.599 have been released in twenty seventeen and hopefully will be 348 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:38.240 are things such as sources and methods, names of individuals 349 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.079 who were still alive. So what would happen when we 350 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.119 were in operation was the CIA or the FBI would 351 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.160 meet with us and they would be records that we 352 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.160 had in the queue to be released, and they would 353 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.119 give reasons why they couldn't be released, and typically they 354 00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:00.119 would say something like this individual named in the doc 355 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:06.119 or sometimes even more a series of documents retired undercover 356 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:12.440 in Europe, and if this record is released again this 357 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:16.000 is in the mid to late nineties, if the record 358 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.759 is released, that person could be killed if their name 359 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:22.720 is made public. So the review will would say, okay, 360 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:26.480 the compromise is that we will redact the name of 361 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.640 the individual but release the record, but the name will 362 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:35.200 be released within twenty five years or upon the death 363 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:39.799 of the person, so that was the compromise that we 364 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.920 often reached because who were we, as the review would 365 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:50.480 to jeopardize someone's life that the intelligence community said would 366 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:51.880 have been at risk. 367 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.279 But okay, yeah, I understand, Yeah, I do understand that. 368 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.519 Would have these been Americans who are now living abroad 369 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:01.000 who had worked for one of the these agencies or 370 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:06.000 what have they been a source of a foreign source 371 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:10.200 who might have provided some information along the way? 372 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.880 Well, it was a range, Dan in some instances. My 373 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.519 recollection is that it might have been a foreign official 374 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.079 that had provided information to the US Intelligence Community CIA 375 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.799 or another agency. So it could it could be any 376 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.160 any one of the situations you mentioned. 377 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:34.640 Last question for me, then we're going to go to 378 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.680 phone calls. Last question for me is I remember the 379 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:42.160 book that was written by Mark Lane in the wake 380 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:46.640 of the Warren Commission report, Rushed to Judgment, which was 381 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:52.720 a criticism of the Warren Commission report, if I recall correct, Yes, Okay, 382 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:57.079 who was closer to the reality if you can answer 383 00:24:57.079 --> 00:25:01.000 this question to the reality of what happened the Warren Commission, 384 00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:04.039 which released its report ten months later in September of 385 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.160 sixty four, or Mark Lane, who basically wrote a critique 386 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:12.559 of the Warren Commission report in retrospect in your opinion. 387 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:16.480 Well, let me put it this way, Dan, and invoking 388 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:20.799 again the House Select Committee investigation of the late seventies, which, 389 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:25.039 by the way, the Warren Commission concluded that Lee Harvey 390 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:29.920 Oswald acted alone. In sharp contrast, fifteen sixteen years later 391 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.079 in the late seventies, the House Select Committee concluded that 392 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.160 there probably was a conspiracy involved more than Oswald. 393 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.480 So that was what was I think referred to as 394 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:42.839 the Blaky report. 395 00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:43.880 Was a professor of. 396 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.839 Yah, Robert Yes, exactly. Yeah, And so those are kind 397 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.720 of the book ends of the investigation. And the reality 398 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:58.880 is that Mark Lane did great research on a lot 399 00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:06.799 of testimony that, if cass together would would run counter 400 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:14.000 to the War Mission's final conclusion. However, will, as we 401 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:18.559