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Speaker 4: You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 4: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 4: written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer.
Speaker 3: The Nightstalker BTK.
Speaker 4: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 4: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 4: your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 3: Good Evening. Almost one third of Russian serial killers have
Speaker 3: committed cannibalism during their murder spree, but not as much
Speaker 3: is known about their crimes outside of the Federation. This
Speaker 3: book follows the stories of thirteen cannibals from the Motherland,
Speaker 3: Alexander Spetziatseb, the Siberian Ripper, Dimitri and and Italia Bakshib
Speaker 3: Nicole Metal Fang Jumagolev. All these killers were characterized by
Speaker 3: the same fetish, the erotic desire to consume the flesh
Speaker 3: of a person cursed by an uncontrollable hunger. They have
Speaker 3: committed some of the worst atrocities in the history of
Speaker 3: true crime, illustrated with more than two hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: photographs onearthed from the confidential files of the Kremlin's Ministry
Speaker 3: of Internal Affairs. Russian cannibals addicted to human flesh is
Speaker 3: a brutal encyclopedia of the men and women who have
Speaker 3: broken the ultimate taboo. The book they were featuring this
Speaker 3: evening is Russian Cannibals Addicted to Human Flesh with my
Speaker 3: special guests, journalists and author Niko Kloe. Welcome back to
Speaker 3: the program, and thank you very much for this interview.
Speaker 3: Niko Kloe, thanks for them, Thank you so much, and
Speaker 3: congratulations on this latest of your books, Russian Cannibals.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Let's get right to the genesis of this book. You
Speaker 3: say right in the introduction that Russian serial killers are
Speaker 3: often associated with stories of cannibalism. When you started to
Speaker 3: do research on Russian serial killers for your first book,
Speaker 3: Russian serial Killers, what did you quickly realize exactly?
Speaker 5: I quickly realized that about one third of hundred killers
Speaker 5: that I studied so far have at one point or
Speaker 5: another during the crimes free they have tasted human flesh,
Speaker 5: and it became obvious to me that they needed a
Speaker 5: volume on their own. And when I started to write
Speaker 5: this volume, I quickly realized also that it needed several
Speaker 5: volumes because I really wanted to delve deep inside the stories,
Speaker 5: because those stories were fascinating. It's extremely hard to find
Speaker 5: info on those cases. You have to read a lot
Speaker 5: of Russia newspapers and articles, only a basic inphoses available
Speaker 5: in the West, and there are cases that are practically
Speaker 5: not covered at all. There are cases that date back
Speaker 5: from the Soviet era before the nineties, but there are
Speaker 5: also cases that happened during the nineties and the early
Speaker 5: two thousands. Some of them were more or less covered
Speaker 5: in the West, but most of them were kept extremely local,
Speaker 5: even though they're extremely fascinating.
Speaker 3: You talk about the Bolshevik Revolution in nineteen seventeen, and
Speaker 3: then you talk about the starvation in the Ukraine later
Speaker 3: and write about the meat markets that were photographs of
Speaker 3: the meat markets that were in the Soviet Union at
Speaker 3: that time. Tell us a little bit about though, that
Speaker 3: most of the cases in this book from what era?
Speaker 3: Are these featured serial killer cannibals? Where are they from
Speaker 3: what era?
Speaker 5: So it is true, yes, that there is a strong
Speaker 5: history in the twentieth century of starvation and stories of
Speaker 5: cannibialism in Russia. For example, during the blockage of Leningrad
Speaker 5: during World War Two, there were thousands of cases of
Speaker 5: cannibalism recorded during the year during which the blockage took place.
Speaker 5: This was because of course, of the lack of food
Speaker 5: and starvation, and there was several episodes of hunger and
Speaker 5: famine during after the Soviet Revolution. And of course cannibalism
Speaker 5: was also practiced in the gulags by Russian prisoners. Yes,
Speaker 5: there is for example, a famous anecdote told by this
Speaker 5: famous Russian writer so Jenny Skin about the gulag and
Speaker 5: the prisoners when they tried to escape, they always kept
Speaker 5: a third prisoner or another prisoner with them, usually a
Speaker 5: political prisoner, and called him a cow because they would
Speaker 5: actually hat that person on their way to freedom. So
Speaker 5: we yes, cannibalism was a reality, harsh reality during the
Speaker 5: twentieth century. But when it comes to serial killing and
Speaker 5: those kinds of cases where cannibalism was committed by criminals
Speaker 5: and serial offenders, most of the time it was not
Speaker 5: committed because of hunger or practical reasons. It was just
Speaker 5: a sexual fetish that was developed by those killers, like
Speaker 5: what happened with Jeffrey Dahmer in the United States or
Speaker 5: Denis Nelson in the UK. Those killers wanted to experience
Speaker 5: this fetish that they had developed for a very long time.
Speaker 5: And when I wrote about those those serial killers in
Speaker 5: my first book. I realized that some of the killers
Speaker 5: that I studied at this tish which is called veraurphilia.
Speaker 5: It means the sexual attraction to the act of eating
Speaker 5: human flesh right, and the case is that I discussed
Speaker 5: in this book. Most of the cases happen in the
Speaker 5: nineteen nineties or the early two thousands, so it's not
Speaker 5: during World War two or even after.
Speaker 3: Now we're going to have you read the contents to
Speaker 3: the thirteen cannibal killers that are featured. Just before we start,
Speaker 3: one major name is missing. You call the godfather of
Speaker 3: human flesh eaters, and that's say Andre Chikatilo. Why is
Speaker 3: he not included? Tell us why not?
Speaker 5: When I started to compare all those names and all
Speaker 5: those stories, I quickly realized that chikatill could overshadow them.
Speaker 5: And the case is so complex and so many things
Speaker 5: have been written about him. So I want you to
Speaker 5: focus on this first world review on killers that are
Speaker 5: practically unknown in the West. It made more sense to me,
Speaker 5: and I will talk about Tikatilu in the sequel to
Speaker 5: this book, and this book is more focused on other
Speaker 5: bigs like the bag sheees for example, it's this couple
Speaker 5: of cannibals who live in a flash no dark area
Speaker 5: and they were actually arrested because workers found one of
Speaker 5: the mobile phones on the street and they found pictures
Speaker 5: that they took over their victim. So this is a
Speaker 5: story that was covered in the West Sum. I will
Speaker 5: go back to that story a little bit later because
Speaker 5: it's a very interesting story. Yes, but let me tell
Speaker 5: you the names of all those different kills that I covered.
Speaker 5: I first start with Moscow, the Moscow region with a
Speaker 5: golofkin also called fisher by the Soviet press at the time.
Speaker 5: He used to kill his victims at the same time
Speaker 5: that and if I could compare his case to an
Speaker 5: American case, that would be definitely be John Wayne Gacy.
Speaker 5: He was targeting young teenagers. He had some kind of
Speaker 5: dungeon under his garage where he kept his victim. It's
Speaker 5: an extremely brutal case, very hard case to cover, and
Speaker 5: it definitely can be compared to gays in terms of
Speaker 5: AMMO and different things surrounding the case. Then I cover
Speaker 5: several killers that operated in the Saint Petersburg region. Saint
Speaker 5: Petersburg is known in Russia for having lots of serial killers.
Speaker 5: It's like the Russian capital of serial killers. And for
Speaker 5: this book specifically, I have for four different cases. I
Speaker 5: have Vasili Smirnov also known as the Necromancer, ill Shat Kuzikov,
Speaker 5: also known as the cook or I'll let you imagine
Speaker 5: what kind of meat he was cooking. Then there's Edward Shemyakov,
Speaker 5: the resort maniacts and Tamara sam Sonova the Granny Ripper,
Speaker 5: which whose case was also a bit covered by the press,
Speaker 5: the Western press through the next story I mentioned it
Speaker 5: heard here is the Bakshis, the Krasnodar Cannibals. Then we
Speaker 5: go to the Volga region with the Vladimir Nikolajev the
Speaker 5: Auger and Alexander Bishkov also known as the predate predatorp.
Speaker 5: Then we go to Siberia with the Alexander's Steph the
Speaker 5: Siberian Ripper, the gash back Ron Bahyav, the Evo against
Speaker 5: Ki Ripper. Then we go to Ukraine with the Kustyikov's
Speaker 5: the Father and some cannibals. And the last region we
Speaker 5: visit is Kazakhstan, a former Soviet province which is now
Speaker 5: an independent republic. And Kazakhstan was the home of Nikolai Rimaga,
Speaker 5: Yev Metal Fang and the cannibal cooks of an extremely
Speaker 5: bizarre case involving nurses who killed sex workers and aid them.
Speaker 3: Let's get to Alexander Specia, this Siberian rapper. Yes, let's
Speaker 3: talk about this story.
Speaker 5: So scy is very rutal case from Siberia. The number
Speaker 5: of his victims is unknown, but he was officially convicted
Speaker 5: of nineteen murders in nineteen ninety six. He lived in
Speaker 5: what people call in Russia comic block a comic blog.
Speaker 5: It's one of those very ugly, huge buildings with this
Speaker 5: typical Russian architecture. He lived on the top floor with
Speaker 5: his mother and sister, and he was in and out
Speaker 5: of psychiatric hospitals because he was like many other cannibals
Speaker 5: in Russia. He was declared insane for several other offenses,
Speaker 5: and in the nineties he began to lure several victims,
Speaker 5: usually teenagers, to his apartment. And the crazy thing is
Speaker 5: that it is his own mother who actually helped him
Speaker 5: lure the victims back to his apartment. That's the crazy
Speaker 5: part about this story. She did not actively help him
Speaker 5: kill the victims, but she did cook several meals using
Speaker 5: the flesh, and this is a fact that was certified
Speaker 5: by the police when they covered the case. It's an
Speaker 5: extremely brutal case. He would usually keep his victims alive
Speaker 5: for a few days, trapped inside the apartment. It's very
Speaker 5: reminiscent of this case in the US that inspired Silence
Speaker 5: of the Lambs Jerry Einick. Yeah, except he didn't have
Speaker 5: a pitway he would keep his victims, but they were
Speaker 5: kept in his bedroom. He would change them to his
Speaker 5: radiator and they would torture them for days. Rape was involved,
Speaker 5: and when one of them died, he would cut her
Speaker 5: up or made the other victims cut her up, yes,
Speaker 5: and would cook her, feed the remains to his dog,
Speaker 5: and then feed the other victims with the meat, and
Speaker 5: also the mills himself. So this case, yes, it's insanely brutal.
Speaker 5: He was arrested after three young patients from a local
Speaker 5: hospital disappeared. One of them was still found alive inside
Speaker 5: his apartment. The other two were found dismembered. One of
Speaker 5: the torsos was even found in his pastub and she
Speaker 5: didn't live long. She only lived like three or four
Speaker 5: days after being rescued, but she was able to give
Speaker 5: a chilling account which is in the book on her
Speaker 5: last days in this apartment of the help and all
Speaker 5: the torments that she suffered with a fellow friends at
Speaker 5: the ends of a spectista. It's an extremely green case.
Speaker 5: One of the most brutal I covered in the book.
Speaker 5: One of the most insane aspects of the case was
Speaker 5: that this man was actually helped by his mother who
Speaker 5: actually helped him lure the victims inside the apartment. Chi
Speaker 5: only spent about ten years in prison and is a
Speaker 5: free woman now. Fancy Tevy is locked up in an
Speaker 5: insane asyland somewhere in Russia. It's an interesting fact that
Speaker 5: saying Russia, most of those cases the killers I often
Speaker 5: are often declared mentally unfit for trial and they are
Speaker 5: sent to a psychiatric unique, usually to spend the rest
Speaker 5: of their life.
Speaker 3: This book is filled with antidotes which are shocking in
Speaker 3: the leniency and the treatment of these incredible killers that
Speaker 3: almost have no match anywhere in history. You talk about
Speaker 3: compulsory treatment for Spetsievs before he was again sentenced to
Speaker 3: compulsory treatment once these crimes were revealed. Tell us about
Speaker 3: this compulsory treatment and sort of just the attitude of
Speaker 3: the Russians in terms of punishment in the courts for
Speaker 3: these killers.
Speaker 5: Well, he actually had killed one of his your friends
Speaker 5: before committing this Christ free and he spent only a
Speaker 5: few years in a hospital because he was declared skis
Speaker 5: of Frederic by your psychiatricst and after just a few
Speaker 5: years they thought that he was fit for society and
Speaker 5: he was released under supervision. But it seems that the
Speaker 5: supervision was not strong enough because he actually killed just
Speaker 5: a few months after being released. And it's not the
Speaker 5: first time that the cannibal actually was released by a
Speaker 5: psychiatric from a psychiatric unit after committing a series of murders.
Speaker 5: And we can talk about the case of Nikolai Jumaghayev
Speaker 5: from Kazakhstan, which is an extraordinary case because it seems
Speaker 5: so incredible for the Western mind. But this is a
Speaker 5: man who killed. We first killed because he thought that
Speaker 5: he was purifying society by killing loose women Western women.
Speaker 5: So this man was a Kazakh, he was raised as
Speaker 5: a Muslim, and as a Muslim he thought that other
Speaker 5: Russian women, especially Russian women from the north and the
Speaker 5: northwest of the country, were not pure and had very
Speaker 5: loose morals, so he decided to kill them to dig
Speaker 5: them a lesson, and he had read in a book
Speaker 5: that by drinking that blood he would gain some extra
Speaker 5: supernatural power, and that's what he did during his first murder.
Speaker 5: He drank the blood from his first victim and cut
Speaker 5: off some of the body parts and cooked them and
Speaker 5: ate the meat. After that very first murder that happened
Speaker 5: in the late seventies, he developed what he described as
Speaker 5: some kind of addiction to human meat. That's also very
Speaker 5: interesting because you never really read about that when you
Speaker 5: read about cannibal cases. It's one of the only cases
Speaker 5: the killer describes being addicted to the taste of human
Speaker 5: me And he also developed those strange believes about being
Speaker 5: invested by a supernatural power and by celebrating some kind
Speaker 5: of ritual sacrifice by killing those women. He killed five
Speaker 5: or six women in the seventies and early eighties and
Speaker 5: was arrested. He was sent to prison, and he spent
Speaker 5: seven years in in cur supervision before being transferred to
Speaker 5: another part of the country. During that transferring, he escaped
Speaker 5: and he went close for several years when he killed
Speaker 5: again and he was arrested, turned back to the psychiatric Unich,
Speaker 5: and as incredible as it sounds, he was released. Incredible
Speaker 5: only is fifteen years in and out of psychiatric union.
Speaker 5: Even though he had it was proven that he had
Speaker 5: felt like something like seven or eight women before. He
Speaker 5: just could not adjust to normal life. He tried to
Speaker 5: go back to his hometown. People of course try to
Speaker 5: rednch him when he tried to come back to his hometown,
Speaker 5: so he had to escape. He lived in the mountains
Speaker 5: for a while and then he was arrested again the
Speaker 5: suspicion of another murder, and to this day he still
Speaker 5: is locked up in a psychiatric unique in Kazakhstan. But
Speaker 5: what's interesting about this man about Nicolai and Jumagae is
Speaker 5: one of the few canibals that was arrested that gave
Speaker 5: dozens and dozens of interviews to the press, not only
Speaker 5: the Russian press, but also Western press, and during the
Speaker 5: nineties you would often see true crime magazines with his
Speaker 5: confessions with interviews. People would come from all over the
Speaker 5: world to Kazakhstan to interview him, and he would give
Speaker 5: interviews just asking for cigarettes or a few treats and
Speaker 5: he would Telly's life story. So you can even find
Speaker 5: TV interviews with it's really interesting, really interesting case.
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Speaker 3: Now getting back to some of the people featured, you
Speaker 3: had mentioned Dimitri and the Itali Natalia Backsheef, the Krasnodor
Speaker 3: Cannibals aka the Family of Cannibals in twenty seventeen. You
Speaker 3: include this story because you only have one and kill,
Speaker 3: but the headlines are important. In this story, you talk
Speaker 3: about and write about the difference in the coverage in
Speaker 3: Western newspapers and what you had to say about that.
Speaker 5: So yes, in September twenty seventeen, there was a few
Speaker 5: headlines in the press around the world saying things like
Speaker 5: cannibal couple and mid to eating up to thirty people
Speaker 5: in southwest Russia, or details about Russian cannibal couple confessed
Speaker 5: to murdering and eating thirty people and posing for selfies
Speaker 5: with the body parts. So people were under the impression
Speaker 5: that there was this incredible case in Russia involving a
Speaker 5: couple of cannibals who had been killing for up to
Speaker 5: thirty years and taking selfies. So when I did some
Speaker 5: research on the case, I started with the info that
Speaker 5: was available in the West, but it didn't match up
Speaker 5: to what I was reading when I was reading Russian newspapers,
Speaker 5: especially the local newspapers of Krassanda, who covered the case
Speaker 5: and the trials, because there were several trials. So yes,
Speaker 5: there were the case starting in twenty seventeen because construction
Speaker 5: workers from the mobile phone on the street and when
Speaker 5: they looked through the gallery of the picture gallery, they
Speaker 5: found photos of a that identified man with a human
Speaker 5: hand inside his mouth and he was playing with body parts.
Speaker 5: So of course they brought the front to the police.
Speaker 5: They quickly found the owner of the phone and they
Speaker 5: raided the apartment of the owner. When they searched the apartment,
Speaker 5: they actually found photos of people that seemed to have
Speaker 5: been the victims of this couple. The apartment belonged to
Speaker 5: a married couple. The back sheets Dimitry and Natalia back sheet,
Speaker 5: so of course, and they found, of course remains, human remains,
Speaker 5: and some of the remains were stuffed inside glass jars.
Speaker 5: So of course, the logical conclusion was that it was
Speaker 5: the case involving canibalism. And since there were so many
Speaker 5: different pictures of body parts and people seemed to be
Speaker 5: victims inside the apartment, rumors spread and those photos were
Speaker 5: leaked in the media, so you could find them easily
Speaker 5: on the internet. So there essentially photos of this man
Speaker 5: Dimitry backsheve with this hand in his mouth and holding
Speaker 5: body parts, and photos of the contents.
Speaker 3: Of the fridge.
Speaker 5: And that was in the first days of the case,
Speaker 5: before it even went to court. Under custody, the only
Speaker 5: confessed to one murder, and it was the murder of
Speaker 5: a woman that had met one week before. It was
Speaker 5: they had drunk Wader and Natalie Backshave that she tried
Speaker 5: to have intercourse this woman in her husband, and this
Speaker 5: is why she told she ordered him. She ordered her
Speaker 5: husband to kill her, and when he killed her, according
Speaker 5: to her, he was curious about teaching her flesh. That's
Speaker 5: what she said. This was debunked during the trial that
Speaker 5: took place a few months before. After they never found
Speaker 5: any trace of any other victim except this one victim.
Speaker 5: And of course there were pictures. The contents of jazz
Speaker 5: were analyzed and it was proven that they belonged to
Speaker 5: that victim. But other than that, there was no proof
Speaker 5: that cannibalism was involved, and Dimitary Bakshief denied everything. He
Speaker 5: said that he never actually tried to read the flesh.
Speaker 5: He just played with body parts because he thought it
Speaker 5: was parney, according to him, and he was a bit deranged,
Speaker 5: of course, but there was no proof. But still the
Speaker 5: European and American made yea telling that story of a
Speaker 5: canibal couple that had killed up to thirty people. This
Speaker 5: was never actually proven. Dmitry Bakshiev died in prison just
Speaker 5: one year after because he was very ill. He was
Speaker 5: treated for diabetes and there was a problem in the
Speaker 5: facility where he was locked up. They couldn't give him
Speaker 5: his meditation, so he died. Natalia Bakshiev was sentenced to
Speaker 5: a few years of prison, but she was not sentenced
Speaker 5: for the murder. She was not actually convicted of the murder,
Speaker 5: so she got a lesser sentence, and his story was
Speaker 5: The story of cannibalism was largely debunked by local press,
Speaker 5: but I still chose to include it in the book
Speaker 5: because I thought it was interesting to tell one story
Speaker 5: from the two perspectives and how legend is created from one.
Speaker 5: He go once in the fact that's taken out of
Speaker 5: context by the press, and the legend of the Prosnadar
Speaker 5: cannibalist is very strong. If you go to true crime
Speaker 5: forums and you're talking about the case, people will tell you, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: they kill thirty people. This was the This never happened.
Speaker 5: They only killed one person, and the cannibalism wasn't even proved.
Speaker 5: But still I found it very interesting to cover the
Speaker 5: case just to show the difference in perspective. But the
Speaker 5: other cweve cases that I cover are definitely cannibal cases,
Speaker 5: though those were proven.
Speaker 3: You talk quite a bit about the presence and these
Speaker 3: people are sentenced to and you write them as strict
Speaker 3: regime colonies. And one of the ones that's featured with
Speaker 3: a couple of these guys or two or three of
Speaker 3: these killers, is the notorious Black Dolphin prison. All of
Speaker 3: these people get this compulsory treatment in a hospital, but
Speaker 3: also this strict regime colony. As you do when you
Speaker 3: write in this book, can you comment about some of
Speaker 3: the prisons and the treatment and some antidotes about those prisons.
Speaker 5: There's five or six prisons like that in Russians. Most
Speaker 5: of them are the names of animals, like there is
Speaker 5: the black Owl and of course the black dolphin. The
Speaker 5: Black Dolphin has been the subject of several documentaries, very
Speaker 5: interesting documentaries. It is the home of several serial cullous
Speaker 5: Russian serial killows and cannibals, and of course some of
Speaker 5: the people that are included in the book ended up
Speaker 5: in that prison. Black Dolphin has a very bad reputation
Speaker 5: among Russian prisoners. It is the end of the road
Speaker 5: for many of them. It is the most brutal prison
Speaker 5: in the Russian system. Prisoners spent tween t three hours
Speaker 5: a day in their cell. They do not have the
Speaker 5: right to sit on their bank, so they still up
Speaker 5: most of the time or they sit on a chair.
Speaker 5: They do not have access to anything, They cannot treat,
Speaker 5: they cannot watch TV. Of course, they are working workshops
Speaker 5: about twelve hours a day and the only time that
Speaker 5: they have in a reckyard is one hour a day
Speaker 5: to stretch the legs, but it's just the space of
Speaker 5: two cells, so they can't really stretch their legs. It
Speaker 5: is often described as a living hell by prisoners, and
Speaker 5: they are very powerful photos that were taken there showing
Speaker 5: the prisoners bending face down when they leave their cell
Speaker 5: because they have to be disoriented when they move from
Speaker 5: one part of the prison to another right so they
Speaker 5: are always followed by three or four gods. There are
Speaker 5: also huge dogs that are trained to bark at them
Speaker 5: if the defintion eye. So yes, it's a very very
Speaker 5: gream and breiku place where to enjoy your life. It's
Speaker 5: also one of the few prisons where you never leave
Speaker 5: actually the prison, except if you confess to other crimes.
Speaker 5: And this is what happened with one of the cannibals
Speaker 5: that I mentioned in the book. He had to confess
Speaker 5: to other crimes so he could leave the prison and
Speaker 5: be transferred to another prison in another part of the
Speaker 5: country so we could show the locations where he had
Speaker 5: buried the victims. After serving about ten years in Black Dolphins,
Speaker 5: so he confessed to other crimes knowing that he would
Speaker 5: be sentenced for that, just to have a break from
Speaker 5: that prison.
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Speaker 3: about another incredible cannibal killer, Alexander Bishkov aka the Predator.
Speaker 3: How are the Bolinski cannibal with nine kills reigning from
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine to twenty twelve, tell us about
Speaker 3: this that it all started September seventeen, two thousand and nine.
Speaker 5: But it's he is very young compared to the other killers,
Speaker 5: including the book. He started to kill in his early twenties.
Speaker 5: He kept a diary of these crimes. Way we describe
Speaker 5: how we killed them, how he would cut thoughts from them.
Speaker 5: He was obsessed with the movie Predator, so he got
Speaker 5: his nickname from that movie. And the crimes happened in
Speaker 5: the very his small town in rural Russia, he would
Speaker 5: target middle aged men, usually alcoholics or transience people who
Speaker 5: would not raise the attention of the police. And his
Speaker 5: first crime was actually someone he knew. It was someone
Speaker 5: who shared a room with his own mother. So he
Speaker 5: got away with his first crime, and when he found
Speaker 5: out that he was not even a suspect for that crime,
Speaker 5: he continued his crime spree. He never really gave a
Speaker 5: reason why he committed those crimes except that he was
Speaker 5: fascinated by murder. He was obsessed with murder, was obsessed
Speaker 5: with violent movies. When the police readed his home, they
Speaker 5: found lots of the VHS tapes of haw and violent movies.
Speaker 5: And he saw himself as some kind of hunter that
Speaker 5: would hunt people in his hometown and kill them and
Speaker 5: eat them. What's interesting about this, As I told you,
Speaker 5: this criminal was extremely young. He was about twenty five
Speaker 5: when he was arrested. And it was similar to Richard
Speaker 5: Rumirez in the US. He had a lots of groupies
Speaker 5: when he was arrested. Lots of women started to write
Speaker 5: to him when he was in prison.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 5: And he actually married an American citizen, an American woman
Speaker 5: from Nevada who actually moved to Russia marry him, So
Speaker 5: this is an extremely unique in the history of a
Speaker 5: Russian series killers.
Speaker 3: It's interesting you write that he connects these murders and
Speaker 3: this cannibalism and there is somebody that takes the credit.
Speaker 3: It's not an unusual story, but in this story it
Speaker 3: leads to an incredible twist. Somebody takes the credit for it,
Speaker 3: somebody mentally ill. How does this affect this case and
Speaker 3: the killings?
Speaker 5: So the police was suspecting a local. It was a
Speaker 5: very large guy with have had the history of mental problems,
Speaker 5: and he easily confessed to the murders. So he was
Speaker 5: sent to a psychiatric unit for this. Some people say
Speaker 5: that he was beaten during the custody, so the confessions
Speaker 5: were forced out of him, so to speak. But the
Speaker 5: thing is, when he was arrested, the killing's pre continued,
Speaker 5: and in his diary, Bishkov actually said that he didn't
Speaker 5: like the fact that this man was took to blame
Speaker 5: for the crimes because it did not, according to him,
Speaker 5: deserve the attention, and only him deserved the attention that
Speaker 5: those crimes he deserved, so he was extremely narcissistic. But yes,
Speaker 5: even after Bishop was arrested, this individual remained in psychiatric
Speaker 5: hospital for quite a while, even though the real suspect
Speaker 5: was arrested.
Speaker 3: What was Alexander Bitchkiv's culinary preference in terms of body
Speaker 3: parts and what did he say in that regard In
Speaker 3: his memoir.
Speaker 5: Beechkoff was obsessed with the movie Hannibal with Anthony Hopkins,
Speaker 5: was obsessed with the character of Hannibal. If you remember
Speaker 5: from the movie Hannibal Rising, he's sourced to be of
Speaker 5: Russian origin. Well, it's not exactly Russians from Lithuania, I
Speaker 5: think Lithuania. Yeah, but for most people Hannibal the origins
Speaker 5: of Annibal that he is Russian, and Bichkov was proud
Speaker 5: of this heritage. I think after the sixth murder, he
Speaker 5: cut out hit the heart of his victim and he
Speaker 5: put it in a bag and he brought it to
Speaker 5: an empty house and he boiled it and he ate it,
Speaker 5: and he said that he tasted like pork. So after
Speaker 5: that he tried different recipes on other victims. He boiled
Speaker 5: several body parts. He fried them in a frying pan
Speaker 5: with vegetaboil, oil and salt and pepper, lemon and vodka.
Speaker 5: So you can see that he was influenced not only
Speaker 5: by horror movies, but he says that he was influenced
Speaker 5: by the study of practices of Mayan tribes. The Mayans
Speaker 5: sometimes would eat the heart of the victims when they
Speaker 5: harvested prisoners during the wars, and they would sacrifice them
Speaker 5: on top of the pyramids. Birschkoff was fascinated by that fact,
Speaker 5: and by eating the heart of what he considered as
Speaker 5: his enemies, he would get their strength and get their
Speaker 5: life force inside him. So, yes, two influences, two major influences,
Speaker 5: Horneyball lecture and the Mayers.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting in his story too, that someone he's
Speaker 3: speaking to confronts them and suspects him of being a killer.
Speaker 3: What does he do to this person when they say
Speaker 3: when they say that to him.
Speaker 5: Well, he killed him, just couldn't take the risk of
Speaker 5: letting him live. The person was trying to blackmail him
Speaker 5: and said that if you don't give me money with
Speaker 5: everything to the authorities, and of course Bitshkov killed him
Speaker 5: and cut him up. So that's one of the few
Speaker 5: victims that he knew actually because this man was one
Speaker 5: of his drinking companions. But he took the risk of
Speaker 5: risk of killing.
Speaker 3: Him and he sat down for an interview once he
Speaker 3: was in prison, and you provide that interview in this
Speaker 3: book as well, very very interesting interview that was conducted.
Speaker 5: Yes, he gave an interview to Russian journalists. There are
Speaker 5: a few interviews in the book. As I said before,
Speaker 5: there is an interview with Jumagaryev. There is there are interviews,
Speaker 5: but this interview is extremely interesting because he goes very
Speaker 5: deep inside the motivations and the details of each crime.
Speaker 5: He also talks about the contents of his diary and
Speaker 5: his obsession with the horror movies and the movie Predator.
Speaker 5: He also mentioned some of his influences. Surprisingly says that
Speaker 5: he wasn't very influenced by Chikatiro. He knew, of course
Speaker 5: of Chikatiro, but he says that Chikatilo wasn't his idol
Speaker 5: because he was killing children, and Bishkov wanted to people
Speaker 5: to understand that he was killing adults, middle aged men,
Speaker 5: who according to him, did not deserve to live because
Speaker 5: they were alcoholics or transients. So, yes, he made a
Speaker 5: clear he wanted to make clear that he was not
Speaker 5: on the same level as Chikitilo regarding his choice of victims.
Speaker 3: When we talk about Andrei Chikatilo. We get back to
Speaker 3: Sergei a golf can. Oh, yes, and did you talk
Speaker 3: to that. At the same time that he was killing,
Speaker 3: there was the rastav maniac, which was the elusive rastav
Speaker 3: maniac was operating at the same time. So tell us
Speaker 3: about Sergei golf Can and how authorities knew that it
Speaker 3: was not Chicktello.
Speaker 5: The last king was killer who killed between nineteen eighty
Speaker 5: six and nineteen ninety two, so it was more or
Speaker 5: less during the Kikatillo murder spree. The thing that separated
Speaker 5: them was, of course the distance. Gay olaf King killed
Speaker 5: his victims in the suburbs of Moscow, specifically around a
Speaker 5: farm a complex where they would breed horses. It was
Speaker 5: his job. He was a technician specialized in breeding horses,
Speaker 5: and he was He would kill his victims, his young
Speaker 5: victims because they were young teenagers, around the farm in
Speaker 5: the suburbs of Moscow, whereas Kicketillo was killing his victims
Speaker 5: around Rostov, which is thousands of miles away, but still
Speaker 5: wounds inflicted on some of the victims of Golofkin were
Speaker 5: similar to the ones inflicted on some of Chikatillo's victims
Speaker 5: and there were traces of cannibalism dismemberment. Some of Golofkin's
Speaker 5: victims were played while they were still alive, so when
Speaker 5: the police found the bodies in the woods, because he
Speaker 5: buried some of his victims in the woods, they found
Speaker 5: some parts of their skin missing. So since they had
Speaker 5: absolutely no suspect and the only similar crime scene scenes
Speaker 5: that were that could be compared to those crime scenes
Speaker 5: were discovered in Rostov, they thought that the Rostov killer
Speaker 5: and Poscal killer were one and the same. But what's
Speaker 5: interesting is that they were more less arrested at the
Speaker 5: same time, and both their names were known around Russia.
Speaker 5: We only know of Patila in the West, but Golofkin
Speaker 5: is equally as no in Russia. Is considered as one
Speaker 5: of the Russia's main booking man because of the circumstances
Speaker 5: of the crimes and the extremely brutal, brutalically of the murders. Also,
Speaker 5: those murders they happened in a very posh area of
Speaker 5: Moscow where high ranking officials lived. There was the next
Speaker 5: President of the Russian Federation who lived just a few
Speaker 5: streets away from where they found the bodies, so it
Speaker 5: made a huge impact on the Moscow ades at the time.
Speaker 5: There's even a display in the local Museum of Crime
Speaker 5: in Moscow on Clofkin with pictures of his victims and
Speaker 5: some of the things that were recovered that his garage
Speaker 5: where he kept some of his victims.
Speaker 3: You right, that at first he attacked people and didn't
Speaker 3: have this garage, this thing built, this torture do it
Speaker 3: yourself torture chamber. Helt yet. But when he had the opportunity,
Speaker 3: bought a car, and he bought and he built to
Speaker 3: start to build this garage with this hidden again torture
Speaker 3: chamber with rings on the walls. And so that is
Speaker 3: the similarity to John Wayne Gacy in that he had
Speaker 3: the privacy and he had the ability to do what
Speaker 3: he really wanted, which was to humiliate and torture and
Speaker 3: horrify his young men that he abducted.
Speaker 5: What's also interesting is that he developed a mother so
Speaker 5: soperanda to lure them to the garage, and he would
Speaker 5: usually ask them if they were interested in rubbing a
Speaker 5: storage unit or a house where there was vodka other
Speaker 5: variables at the time, and when they agreed to go
Speaker 5: with him and to commit the crime with him, this
Speaker 5: is when he decided that they would die for him.
Speaker 5: He needed this more or justification to kill them. So
Speaker 5: he would tell them to jump in the hood vis
Speaker 5: car so that they would they would be hidden and
Speaker 5: they would not be noticed by anyone. And instead of
Speaker 5: driving them to plays that they would rob, he would
Speaker 5: lead them to his garage, force them into the basement,
Speaker 5: and he would attach them to the ring and when
Speaker 5: torture began.
Speaker 3: It's eerie how much he either learned from Gayzy or
Speaker 3: how much he shared characteristically with Gaycy, because gay Sy
Speaker 3: based his murders also on that these guys were of
Speaker 3: low moral character and very much like a surgey asserting
Speaker 3: that these guys, well, because they were weak and we're
Speaker 3: going to commit the crimes, then they deserve to die exactly.
Speaker 5: It's interesting to note the similitary similiarities in dynamics between
Speaker 5: well known Americans here curious and some lesser known Russian
Speaker 5: serial curious. And sometimes you have equivalents of say, for example,
Speaker 5: Richard Ramirez. There's an equivalent to Richard Ramerrors which I
Speaker 5: covered in my first book, was called the Night Creature
Speaker 5: instead of the nights Talker. And now in this book
Speaker 5: that this criminal is basically a Russian John van Gacy,
Speaker 5: so it's interesting to see similar tactics used by those
Speaker 5: offenders to learn their victim to the crime scene. Of course,
Speaker 5: there are differences. For example, the mobility is important the
Speaker 5: fact that in Russia's it was this time harder to
Speaker 5: have your own vehicle, so usually they would pick up
Speaker 5: victims that lived around their place, or they would just
Speaker 5: follow them in the woods and kill them in the woods.
Speaker 5: But for this specific offender, for girl Afkin, is signature
Speaker 5: totally changed when he bought a car because he could
Speaker 5: have a different way of learning them and learning them
Speaker 5: to a specific place where he killed them. He developed
Speaker 5: this garage for several years. He built it with his
Speaker 5: own hands, and it was in the middle of his
Speaker 5: crime spirit was not even at the beginning of his
Speaker 5: crime spree. Was already a serial killer when he started
Speaker 5: to build this garage, so he knew more or less
Speaker 5: what he had in mind for them. He developed his
Speaker 5: fantasy and developed this idea of creating his own dungeon
Speaker 5: so he could develop and act out on those fantasies.
Speaker 3: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear
Speaker 3: these messages.
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Speaker 3: No we necessary dhere. I lost in terms of conditions
Speaker 3: eighteen plus. You have another killer featured, Vasily Schmyrnov. Yes,
Speaker 3: and which was called the Necromancer of five Kills in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine. What is an interesting characteristic of this
Speaker 3: killer and one of the reasons why he's included his very.
Speaker 5: Obscure case from the seventies, He killed five, mostly children,
Speaker 5: also in the Saint Petersburg region. When he was eighteen,
Speaker 5: he tried to kill his own mother with a hammer,
Speaker 5: So that tells you a lot about the psyche. He
Speaker 5: was sent to a prison for rape and why he
Speaker 5: was in prison he was himself the victim of sexual
Speaker 5: assaults and he was kept as a sex slave via
Speaker 5: other inmates because they have this specific yeraq. In Russian prisons,
Speaker 5: sexual offenders are often kept as sex slaves by other
Speaker 5: prisoners thieves and think their own sexual depravity on those prisoners.
Speaker 5: And when he got out of prison, he was assaulted
Speaker 5: on his way to his home. He was assaulted by
Speaker 5: a group of teenagers. He survived the attack, but when
Speaker 5: he woke up, he wore to himself to take revenge
Speaker 5: on other people, and this is when the killing started.
Speaker 3: He got a job to learn his craft, this eventual
Speaker 3: craft at a slaughterhouse, and then soon after he started attacking. Didn'ty.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's interesting because he slaughtered cattle and he wanted
Speaker 5: to use his knife skills on his future victims. One
Speaker 5: of the characteristics of his crime is that he drove
Speaker 5: nails on his victims heads, huge nails that he would
Speaker 5: drive with the hammer on his on his victims. There's
Speaker 5: not a specific reason why he did this, but this
Speaker 5: helped the police lin the crimes together. In total, there
Speaker 5: were a total of five murderers. Some of the victims
Speaker 5: had bite marks on their flesh, At first, they thought
Speaker 5: that it was animals who tried to feed on the
Speaker 5: on the corpses, but the bite marks were too smooth
Speaker 5: and they eventually found out that they were human biteks.
Speaker 5: So Smirnov had tried to bite off the flesh from
Speaker 5: his victims, but he couldn't teas were not strong enough
Speaker 5: to whip off the flesh. It was just trying, but
Speaker 5: he actually drunk from their blood, so he still considered
Speaker 5: that the cannibal by the the Russian police.
Speaker 3: You say that finally a woman comes forward recognizing him
Speaker 3: as her rapist, and so he feels cornered when the
Speaker 3: police come to his home.
Speaker 5: What happens, what incredible is that he actually set fire
Speaker 5: to his own home because he knew that they would
Speaker 5: find evidence inside his own connecting to other rapes and
Speaker 5: possible murders, so he burnt his own house and left.
Speaker 5: He was soon apprehended, but not before making a final
Speaker 5: victim he read a young girl in a park. He
Speaker 5: was nearly lynched by the localsts, but the police got
Speaker 5: him in a custody and he soon confessed to five crimes,
Speaker 5: including a crime that was not even reported as a
Speaker 5: murder because he had left his victim on an open
Speaker 5: road and the victim was run over by car, so
Speaker 5: the police fought that had it was an accident. He
Speaker 5: was found to be seen and sent to a firing squad.
Speaker 5: But what's interesting about the case is that there were
Speaker 5: rumors in Saint Petersburg about him but being executed, being
Speaker 5: kept in the secret cell somewhere in Russia where scientists
Speaker 5: would study his brain. So of course it was just
Speaker 5: a rumor he was executed, But that's an interesting anecdote
Speaker 5: concerning this particular murderer.
Speaker 3: Yes, he had confessed to having tried the cannibalize one
Speaker 3: of those victims, but he also said that he ate
Speaker 3: some parts of the bodies of his other victims'.
Speaker 5: Yes, what is really difficult in those kinds of cases
Speaker 5: is to know if the person is telling the truth
Speaker 5: or not, because you cannot really find hard evidence of
Speaker 5: cannibalism unless you actually find the remains in plates or
Speaker 5: you know, So it's always difficult to see if the
Speaker 5: person is telling the truth or not. But given the
Speaker 5: personal of his kids, it's highly possible that he really
Speaker 5: did those things, and it's proved that he actually beat them,
Speaker 5: so it's extremely possible that they actually took parts of
Speaker 5: their flesh and ate them too.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about one more incredible killer in case the
Speaker 3: illshat Kuzakov three kills. We mentioned him before, You mentioned
Speaker 3: before nineteen ninety five called him the cook. Very interesting
Speaker 3: background to have as an influence. Tell us what he
Speaker 3: witnessed when he was young.
Speaker 5: Ill shot was from the Saint Petersburgh region as well.
Speaker 5: He witnessed murder of his own mother by his own father,
Speaker 5: so of course that influenced his psychological state when he
Speaker 5: was a young man. It happened when he was eleven,
Speaker 5: and he beat her with his bare feace, So you
Speaker 5: can imagine the violence and the impact on his is
Speaker 5: mine as a young boy. He spent his most of
Speaker 5: his life in and out of mental institutions. He said
Speaker 5: that he had a turtle as a pet, but he
Speaker 5: split it with a hammer when he was a boy,
Speaker 5: so that that gives you an idea of his mental state.
Speaker 5: She spent some time in the Soviet army. But during
Speaker 5: during his time in the army, he tried to kill
Speaker 5: one of his colleagues and he beat him with a
Speaker 5: French actually, and so he was sent to prison. But
Speaker 5: forensic psychiatrists diagnosed him with schizophrenia, so he was cried
Speaker 5: mandatory treatment the psychiatric clinic, but he was released a
Speaker 5: few years after. And what's crazy is that he started
Speaker 5: to get a pension for that. According to Russian law,
Speaker 5: when you are diagnosed with a severe psychiatric condition, even
Speaker 5: if you commit a crime, you get a pension from
Speaker 5: the state. He even got a studio, a small flat
Speaker 5: in central Saint Petersburg given by the state as part
Speaker 5: of the program that they have for psychiatric patients. This
Speaker 5: is in this flat that he killed three persons. So
Speaker 5: each time it was the same story. He would befriend
Speaker 5: someone that he had met in a mental institution and
Speaker 5: he would drink with him, befriend that person, invite him
Speaker 5: to his place, and when he would make advances on
Speaker 5: them because you know, he was gay, and that person
Speaker 5: refused the advances, this is when he would kill them.
Speaker 5: And he killed three persons like that. What's crazy is that,
Speaker 5: you know it happened in the course of several years.
Speaker 5: Each time he would get rid of the remains around
Speaker 5: his flat, so just a few blocks away from where
Speaker 5: I lived, in the open air, for example, he would
Speaker 5: leave there head in a box in the middle of
Speaker 5: the street. The police would find it just a few
Speaker 5: hours later. It would investigate some but each time he
Speaker 5: would get away with it. The third time they decided
Speaker 5: to raid his place and this is where they found
Speaker 5: human remains and he confessed to the three crimes.
Speaker 3: You're talking about a severed head and you're talking about
Speaker 3: body parts in the glass jar from this guy. And
Speaker 3: also that he is the only person in this book
Speaker 3: when we talked about the beginning about people's motivation for
Speaker 3: cannibalism in the twenties and the thirties and Soviet Union
Speaker 3: and Ukraine for cannibalism was hunger. And this guy claims
Speaker 3: that because his generous pension with the government after the
Speaker 3: Soviet collapse was now not very good at all, that
Speaker 3: he actually didn't have the money for the basics and
Speaker 3: resorted the cannibalism because of hunger.
Speaker 5: Yes, he even said that he never wants to kill anyone,
Speaker 5: but that he was so hungry that this was his
Speaker 5: only way to get actual meat because meat was so
Speaker 5: expensive in those times, especially in Saint Petersburg. The city
Speaker 5: really suffered from the crisis, the economical crisis in the nineties.
Speaker 5: They didn't have the basic food supplies like sugar and bread.
Speaker 5: So he said that as a result he had health problem.
Speaker 5: He's offered from mail nutrition and this is the reason
Speaker 5: gave to the priest. When I explained the crimes, he
Speaker 5: said that he didn't really want to kill them, but
Speaker 5: that he was so hungry that pushed him to commit
Speaker 5: those cribs.
Speaker 3: He was eventually sentenced, and again obviously sentenced to what
Speaker 3: they deem him.
Speaker 5: He was released from criminal liability and sent for compulsory
Speaker 5: treatment to the city psychiatry because people with intensive supervision,
Speaker 5: so it's a special clinic if he were where they
Speaker 5: keep criminally insane, and all the murder charges were but
Speaker 5: they dropped because this is how the system works. Until now.
Speaker 5: He's still alive. He's fifty seven years old now and
Speaker 5: he's still in some way in a psychiatric institution. But
Speaker 5: it's doubtful that he will ever be fear again.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that he was matched with a cell mate.
Speaker 3: What was a cell mate convicted up Interestingly, so.
Speaker 5: The cell mat he had the very first months where
Speaker 5: he was in prison was convicted of cannibalism too. He
Speaker 5: had cannibalized a drinking companion too.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 5: The other inmates were so afraid of him in the
Speaker 5: prison where he was kept in the beginning that the
Speaker 5: only person who actually accepted to share a cell with
Speaker 5: him was another cannibal. So that tells you a lot
Speaker 5: about the fear that he spread around even in prison.
Speaker 3: You say, he's still alive, but what did the press
Speaker 3: report in the early two thousand.
Speaker 5: In nearly two thousand, the press we put that he
Speaker 5: had died within the wars of the hospital, and this
Speaker 5: was debunked in the twenty seventeen the administration of the
Speaker 5: hospital confirmed that he was still alive and he continued
Speaker 5: to undergo the course of treatment prescribed to the wars
Speaker 5: of the institution.
Speaker 3: You have put the spoke together and there will be
Speaker 3: another collection. What was just the most profound characteristic that
Speaker 3: all of these other than cannibalism, that all of these
Speaker 3: killers contained.
Speaker 5: What are the common traits among all those canuals is
Speaker 5: the addiction to human flesh. Most of them were willing
Speaker 5: to share recipes on how they cooked it. They described
Speaker 5: how addictive it was for them and the pleasure that
Speaker 5: derived from actually doing it. It's an interesting trait. It's
Speaker 5: also interesting how the media is sharing those stories and
Speaker 5: perpetrates the might of the Russian cannible, which well objectively
Speaker 5: is not a might since, as I told you before,
Speaker 5: one third of the theories that I studied when I
Speaker 5: was researching my first book have committed to anibalism in
Speaker 5: one form or another.
Speaker 3: And all of these people seem to provide some rationalization
Speaker 3: for the murder, but very much there seemed to be
Speaker 3: no real rationalization obviously, but many of them talking about
Speaker 3: superseding the morals of humanity with this becoming superman. Based
Speaker 3: on these transgressions.
Speaker 5: There is this belief in most of them that what
Speaker 5: they did made them stronger, physically stronger, and some of
Speaker 5: them said that they were justified in doing what they
Speaker 5: did because they were cleansing society. It's bad elements. That's
Speaker 5: something that you find, for example, in the Cave. The
Speaker 5: last case that I cover in the book, it's a
Speaker 5: very obscure case from Kazakhstan involving three male nurses from
Speaker 5: a psychiatric hospital, yes, who were killing sex workers in
Speaker 5: the capital of Kazakhstan. And their moral justification was that
Speaker 5: they're seeing themselves as strip cleaners, that's how they call themselves.
Speaker 5: So there is this old justification that you find finding
Speaker 5: some of those individuals.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely. I want to thank you so much for
Speaker 3: coming on and talking about your book, Russian Cannibals Addicted
Speaker 3: to Human Flesh. What for people that want to take
Speaker 3: a look, tell us about your website, but also what
Speaker 3: is new on the horizon for you? Nico Klob.
Speaker 5: You kept find the book on my website www dot
Speaker 5: serial Pleasures or Amazon. There are two versions of the book.
Speaker 5: There is a hardback version and the soft cover. This
Speaker 5: is the second book in a series of five books
Speaker 5: that I will be doing on the subject of Russian
Speaker 5: serial killers. I try to take some time in between
Speaker 5: each book because it demands a lot of research and
Speaker 5: a lot of energy to so, but I'm really proud
Speaker 5: of those books. I try to focus on stories that
Speaker 5: are not really well known in the West and deserve
Speaker 5: some attention because those stories tell a lot about the
Speaker 5: minds of serial killers and the minds of repeat off
Speaker 5: and from a different perspective from a what's interesting is
Speaker 5: to also explore the culture. The differences in culture and
Speaker 5: our culture might sometimes influenced those killers. Even though there
Speaker 5: are similar similarities between Western and Eastern serial killers, but
Speaker 5: each nationality and for Russia, which is a gigantic country.
Speaker 5: Each region as it's saw specialties. Tiberian serial culls are
Speaker 5: different from the ones that operate around Saint Petersburg or Moscow,
Speaker 5: for example, so it's really fascinating to see all those differences.
Speaker 5: Speaking of Russian serycules, I am also the creator of
Speaker 5: the next book that is starting a world tour. So
Speaker 5: we are starting with Europe, starting in Rome in the
Speaker 5: next month in October. Is the first expot of this kind.
Speaker 5: It's a tour will be touring several major European capitals
Speaker 5: during the next years, and we will go to the
Speaker 5: US in a couple of years, so it will be
Speaker 5: the first export of this kind. Of course we cover
Speaker 5: American cirle killers, but I want this export to also
Speaker 5: show other cases around the world, so there would be
Speaker 5: a section of Russian, Russian cerir killers and cannibals. Right now,
Speaker 5: I'm trying to negotiate objects that belong to Catillo, which
Speaker 5: would be a first, the first time that it will
Speaker 5: be able to see, for example, the the hat that
Speaker 5: he was wearing when he was arrested, or the glasses
Speaker 5: that was arrested. This exploit in Rome, we have purchased
Speaker 5: the glasses of Jeffrey Darmer. So betoring the world with
Speaker 5: Jeffrey damerglasses, one of the pairs that he was wearing.
Speaker 5: I know that one of the pairs is in I
Speaker 5: can't trust East Museum in the US, but it's other
Speaker 5: pairs that we acquired from what he's called the Jeffrey
Speaker 5: Dahmer Collection. We'll be in our expo as well as
Speaker 5: many many, many other interesting objects like the freezer that
Speaker 5: belonged to German cannibal army, my verse and other fascinating objects.
Speaker 5: So it's a major exploder, first of its kind. I'm
Speaker 5: really proud to be part of this adventure. It will
Speaker 5: last several years, so just watch watch this space and
Speaker 5: my social media is if you want to learn more
Speaker 5: about the explot I am on Instagram Nico Cloth, I'm
Speaker 5: the call official and on Facebook the Nico film.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Nico Cloth for Russian cannibals addicted
Speaker 3: to human flesh. And what I hadn't mentioned was the
Speaker 3: incredible collection of two hundred and fifty photos in this book. Extraordinary.
Speaker 3: Just to add to the enormity and the magnitude of
Speaker 3: this first in the series, this collection of cannibal killers. Well,
Speaker 3: thank you so much, nico Cloth for Russian cannibals addicted
Speaker 3: to human flesh. You have a great evening and thank
Speaker 3: you so much for this interview. And good night, thank you,
Speaker 3: thank you,