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Noperch is necessary if we 21 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:04.439 were bribitted by loss he terms and Conditions eighteen plus. 22 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:15.079 You are now listening to true Murder, The most shocking 23 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.200 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 24 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:22.359 written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer. 25 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:24.359 The Nightstalker BTK. 26 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:29.079 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 27 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:33.239 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 28 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.359 your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 29 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.439 Good Evening. Almost one third of Russian serial killers have 30 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:54.760 committed cannibalism during their murder spree, but not as much 31 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.040 is known about their crimes outside of the Federation. This 32 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:02.879 book follows the stories of thirteen cannibals from the Motherland, 33 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:09.719 Alexander Spetziatseb, the Siberian Ripper, Dimitri and and Italia Bakshib 34 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:16.000 Nicole Metal Fang Jumagolev. All these killers were characterized by 35 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.319 the same fetish, the erotic desire to consume the flesh 36 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.159 of a person cursed by an uncontrollable hunger. They have 37 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:26.120 committed some of the worst atrocities in the history of 38 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.919 true crime, illustrated with more than two hundred and fifty 39 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:34.400 photographs onearthed from the confidential files of the Kremlin's Ministry 40 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:39.199 of Internal Affairs. Russian cannibals addicted to human flesh is 41 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.560 a brutal encyclopedia of the men and women who have 42 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:46.360 broken the ultimate taboo. The book they were featuring this 43 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.840 evening is Russian Cannibals Addicted to Human Flesh with my 44 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:55.159 special guests, journalists and author Niko Kloe. Welcome back to 45 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:57.199 the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 46 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:00.159 Niko Kloe, thanks for them, Thank you so much, and 47 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.960 congratulations on this latest of your books, Russian Cannibals. 48 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:04.560 Thank you. 49 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.719 Let's get right to the genesis of this book. You 50 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:11.960 say right in the introduction that Russian serial killers are 51 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.520 often associated with stories of cannibalism. When you started to 52 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.479 do research on Russian serial killers for your first book, 53 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:22.680 Russian serial Killers, what did you quickly realize exactly? 54 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:27.759 I quickly realized that about one third of hundred killers 55 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:31.240 that I studied so far have at one point or 56 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:35.879 another during the crimes free they have tasted human flesh, 57 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.120 and it became obvious to me that they needed a 58 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:42.719 volume on their own. And when I started to write 59 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.800 this volume, I quickly realized also that it needed several 60 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:51.360 volumes because I really wanted to delve deep inside the stories, 61 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:55.919 because those stories were fascinating. It's extremely hard to find 62 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:58.919 info on those cases. You have to read a lot 63 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:06.000 of Russia newspapers and articles, only a basic inphoses available 64 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:09.439 in the West, and there are cases that are practically 65 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:13.120 not covered at all. There are cases that date back 66 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.959 from the Soviet era before the nineties, but there are 67 00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:21.040 also cases that happened during the nineties and the early 68 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.199 two thousands. Some of them were more or less covered 69 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:27.839 in the West, but most of them were kept extremely local, 70 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:29.879 even though they're extremely fascinating. 71 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.079 You talk about the Bolshevik Revolution in nineteen seventeen, and 72 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.639 then you talk about the starvation in the Ukraine later 73 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:41.120 and write about the meat markets that were photographs of 74 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.519 the meat markets that were in the Soviet Union at 75 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.279 that time. Tell us a little bit about though, that 76 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.240 most of the cases in this book from what era? 77 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:54.519 Are these featured serial killer cannibals? Where are they from 78 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:55.079 what era? 79 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.079 So it is true, yes, that there is a strong 80 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:02.120 history in the twentieth century of starvation and stories of 81 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:06.759 cannibialism in Russia. For example, during the blockage of Leningrad 82 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.399 during World War Two, there were thousands of cases of 83 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:15.920 cannibalism recorded during the year during which the blockage took place. 84 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:20.279 This was because of course, of the lack of food 85 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:25.480 and starvation, and there was several episodes of hunger and 86 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:31.240 famine during after the Soviet Revolution. And of course cannibalism 87 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:35.600 was also practiced in the gulags by Russian prisoners. Yes, 88 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:39.879 there is for example, a famous anecdote told by this 89 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.360 famous Russian writer so Jenny Skin about the gulag and 90 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:48.360 the prisoners when they tried to escape, they always kept 91 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:52.560 a third prisoner or another prisoner with them, usually a 92 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:57.800 political prisoner, and called him a cow because they would 93 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.399 actually hat that person on their way to freedom. So 94 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:06.000 we yes, cannibalism was a reality, harsh reality during the 95 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.240 twentieth century. But when it comes to serial killing and 96 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:17.199 those kinds of cases where cannibalism was committed by criminals 97 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.480 and serial offenders, most of the time it was not 98 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:26.120 committed because of hunger or practical reasons. It was just 99 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:30.879 a sexual fetish that was developed by those killers, like 100 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.639 what happened with Jeffrey Dahmer in the United States or 101 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.800 Denis Nelson in the UK. Those killers wanted to experience 102 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.720 this fetish that they had developed for a very long time. 103 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:48.439 And when I wrote about those those serial killers in 104 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.600 my first book. I realized that some of the killers 105 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:56.800 that I studied at this tish which is called veraurphilia. 106 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:02.199 It means the sexual attraction to the act of eating 107 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:05.160 human flesh right, and the case is that I discussed 108 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.560 in this book. Most of the cases happen in the 109 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:11.319 nineteen nineties or the early two thousands, so it's not 110 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.680 during World War two or even after. 111 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.399 Now we're going to have you read the contents to 112 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.959 the thirteen cannibal killers that are featured. Just before we start, 113 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:24.560 one major name is missing. You call the godfather of 114 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:28.120 human flesh eaters, and that's say Andre Chikatilo. Why is 115 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:30.319 he not included? Tell us why not? 116 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.040 When I started to compare all those names and all 117 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:37.759 those stories, I quickly realized that chikatill could overshadow them. 118 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:41.800 And the case is so complex and so many things 119 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:44.680 have been written about him. So I want you to 120 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.160 focus on this first world review on killers that are 121 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.199 practically unknown in the West. It made more sense to me, 122 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.600 and I will talk about Tikatilu in the sequel to 123 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:59.560 this book, and this book is more focused on other 124 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:04.399 bigs like the bag sheees for example, it's this couple 125 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.839 of cannibals who live in a flash no dark area 126 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:12.439 and they were actually arrested because workers found one of 127 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:16.120 the mobile phones on the street and they found pictures 128 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.600 that they took over their victim. So this is a 129 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.920 story that was covered in the West Sum. I will 130 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:24.959 go back to that story a little bit later because 131 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.439 it's a very interesting story. Yes, but let me tell 132 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.360 you the names of all those different kills that I covered. 133 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.759 I first start with Moscow, the Moscow region with a 134 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:40.200 golofkin also called fisher by the Soviet press at the time. 135 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:43.600 He used to kill his victims at the same time 136 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:47.720 that and if I could compare his case to an 137 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:51.440 American case, that would be definitely be John Wayne Gacy. 138 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:55.639 He was targeting young teenagers. He had some kind of 139 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.440 dungeon under his garage where he kept his victim. It's 140 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:05.159 an extremely brutal case, very hard case to cover, and 141 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.080 it definitely can be compared to gays in terms of 142 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.919 AMMO and different things surrounding the case. Then I cover 143 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:19.120 several killers that operated in the Saint Petersburg region. Saint 144 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:25.039 Petersburg is known in Russia for having lots of serial killers. 145 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:28.720 It's like the Russian capital of serial killers. And for 146 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:32.679 this book specifically, I have for four different cases. I 147 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:38.200 have Vasili Smirnov also known as the Necromancer, ill Shat Kuzikov, 148 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.480 also known as the cook or I'll let you imagine 149 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:45.960 what kind of meat he was cooking. Then there's Edward Shemyakov, 150 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:51.679 the resort maniacts and Tamara sam Sonova the Granny Ripper, 151 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:55.759 which whose case was also a bit covered by the press, 152 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.679 the Western press through the next story I mentioned it 153 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:03.080 heard here is the Bakshis, the Krasnodar Cannibals. Then we 154 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.600 go to the Volga region with the Vladimir Nikolajev the 155 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:12.879 Auger and Alexander Bishkov also known as the predate predatorp. 156 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.200 Then we go to Siberia with the Alexander's Steph the 157 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.759 Siberian Ripper, the gash back Ron Bahyav, the Evo against 158 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.919 Ki Ripper. Then we go to Ukraine with the Kustyikov's 159 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:29.279 the Father and some cannibals. And the last region we 160 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:33.840 visit is Kazakhstan, a former Soviet province which is now 161 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:38.639 an independent republic. And Kazakhstan was the home of Nikolai Rimaga, 162 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:43.919 Yev Metal Fang and the cannibal cooks of an extremely 163 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:50.039 bizarre case involving nurses who killed sex workers and aid them. 164 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:55.919 Let's get to Alexander Specia, this Siberian rapper. Yes, let's 165 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:57.200 talk about this story. 166 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:02.159 So scy is very rutal case from Siberia. The number 167 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:06.360 of his victims is unknown, but he was officially convicted 168 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:11.200 of nineteen murders in nineteen ninety six. He lived in 169 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.360 what people call in Russia comic block a comic blog. 170 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.879 It's one of those very ugly, huge buildings with this 171 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.840 typical Russian architecture. He lived on the top floor with 172 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:28.799 his mother and sister, and he was in and out 173 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.960 of psychiatric hospitals because he was like many other cannibals 174 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:39.159 in Russia. He was declared insane for several other offenses, 175 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:44.120 and in the nineties he began to lure several victims, 176 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:48.679 usually teenagers, to his apartment. And the crazy thing is 177 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.720 that it is his own mother who actually helped him 178 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.759 lure the victims back to his apartment. That's the crazy 179 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:59.440 part about this story. She did not actively help him 180 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:05.159 kill the victims, but she did cook several meals using 181 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:08.279 the flesh, and this is a fact that was certified 182 00:12:08.279 --> 00:12:10.720 by the police when they covered the case. It's an 183 00:12:10.840 --> 00:12:16.279 extremely brutal case. He would usually keep his victims alive 184 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.360 for a few days, trapped inside the apartment. It's very 185 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:26.799 reminiscent of this case in the US that inspired Silence 186 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.559 of the Lambs Jerry Einick. Yeah, except he didn't have 187 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.240 a pitway he would keep his victims, but they were 188 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.480 kept in his bedroom. He would change them to his 189 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.080 radiator and they would torture them for days. Rape was involved, 190 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.639 and when one of them died, he would cut her 191 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.000 up or made the other victims cut her up, yes, 192 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.879 and would cook her, feed the remains to his dog, 193 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.639 and then feed the other victims with the meat, and 194 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:05.679 also the mills himself. So this case, yes, it's insanely brutal. 195 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:12.320 He was arrested after three young patients from a local 196 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:17.159 hospital disappeared. One of them was still found alive inside 197 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:21.320 his apartment. The other two were found dismembered. One of 198 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:25.679 the torsos was even found in his pastub and she 199 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.399 didn't live long. She only lived like three or four 200 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.840 days after being rescued, but she was able to give 201 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.600 a chilling account which is in the book on her 202 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.320 last days in this apartment of the help and all 203 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:41.559 the torments that she suffered with a fellow friends at 204 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.960 the ends of a spectista. It's an extremely green case. 205 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.759 One of the most brutal I covered in the book. 206 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.000 One of the most insane aspects of the case was 207 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:55.120 that this man was actually helped by his mother who 208 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.240 actually helped him lure the victims inside the apartment. Chi 209 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:03.600 only spent about ten years in prison and is a 210 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.960 free woman now. Fancy Tevy is locked up in an 211 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:11.600 insane asyland somewhere in Russia. It's an interesting fact that 212 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.519 saying Russia, most of those cases the killers I often 213 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:21.080 are often declared mentally unfit for trial and they are 214 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.919 sent to a psychiatric unique, usually to spend the rest 215 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:25.600 of their life. 216 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:29.519 This book is filled with antidotes which are shocking in 217 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:33.919 the leniency and the treatment of these incredible killers that 218 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:37.919 almost have no match anywhere in history. You talk about 219 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:43.840 compulsory treatment for Spetsievs before he was again sentenced to 220 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.720 compulsory treatment once these crimes were revealed. Tell us about 221 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.919 this compulsory treatment and sort of just the attitude of 222 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:56.279 the Russians in terms of punishment in the courts for 223 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:57.039 these killers. 224 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.559 Well, he actually had killed one of his your friends 225 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:04.919 before committing this Christ free and he spent only a 226 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.039 few years in a hospital because he was declared skis 227 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:12.759 of Frederic by your psychiatricst and after just a few 228 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:16.879 years they thought that he was fit for society and 229 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.879 he was released under supervision. But it seems that the 230 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:25.240 supervision was not strong enough because he actually killed just 231 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.919 a few months after being released. And it's not the 232 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:33.120 first time that the cannibal actually was released by a 233 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:39.080 psychiatric from a psychiatric unit after committing a series of murders. 234 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.960 And we can talk about the case of Nikolai Jumaghayev 235 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:47.440 from Kazakhstan, which is an extraordinary case because it seems 236 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:51.039 so incredible for the Western mind. But this is a 237 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.120 man who killed. We first killed because he thought that 238 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:59.639 he was purifying society by killing loose women Western women. 239 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.240 So this man was a Kazakh, he was raised as 240 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.519 a Muslim, and as a Muslim he thought that other 241 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.399 Russian women, especially Russian women from the north and the 242 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.679 northwest of the country, were not pure and had very 243 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:23.559 loose morals, so he decided to kill them to dig 244 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.759 them a lesson, and he had read in a book 245 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.320 that by drinking that blood he would gain some extra 246 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:34.879 supernatural power, and that's what he did during his first murder. 247 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.200 He drank the blood from his first victim and cut 248 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.120 off some of the body parts and cooked them and 249 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.279 ate the meat. After that very first murder that happened 250 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:48.759 in the late seventies, he developed what he described as 251 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.759 some kind of addiction to human meat. That's also very 252 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.720 interesting because you never really read about that when you 253 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.840 read about cannibal cases. It's one of the only cases 254 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:04.400 the killer describes being addicted to the taste of human 255 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:08.640 me And he also developed those strange believes about being 256 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:14.359 invested by a supernatural power and by celebrating some kind 257 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:18.759 of ritual sacrifice by killing those women. He killed five 258 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.119 or six women in the seventies and early eighties and 259 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.200 was arrested. He was sent to prison, and he spent 260 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:31.000 seven years in in cur supervision before being transferred to 261 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:35.359 another part of the country. During that transferring, he escaped 262 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.720 and he went close for several years when he killed 263 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:43.759 again and he was arrested, turned back to the psychiatric Unich, 264 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:48.119 and as incredible as it sounds, he was released. Incredible 265 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.279 only is fifteen years in and out of psychiatric union. 266 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:54.599 Even though he had it was proven that he had 267 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:58.039 felt like something like seven or eight women before. He 268 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:02.880 just could not adjust to normal life. He tried to 269 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.680 go back to his hometown. People of course try to 270 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.799 rednch him when he tried to come back to his hometown, 271 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.519 so he had to escape. He lived in the mountains 272 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.319 for a while and then he was arrested again the 273 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.319 suspicion of another murder, and to this day he still 274 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.480 is locked up in a psychiatric unique in Kazakhstan. But 275 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.680 what's interesting about this man about Nicolai and Jumagae is 276 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.039 one of the few canibals that was arrested that gave 277 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.680 dozens and dozens of interviews to the press, not only 278 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:42.480 the Russian press, but also Western press, and during the 279 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.160 nineties you would often see true crime magazines with his 280 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:50.920 confessions with interviews. People would come from all over the 281 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.319 world to Kazakhstan to interview him, and he would give 282 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:59.480 interviews just asking for cigarettes or a few treats and 283 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.680 he would Telly's life story. So you can even find 284 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.880 TV interviews with it's really interesting, really interesting case. 285 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.240 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear 286 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:11.119 these messages. 287 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.960 Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an 288 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.240 extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to 289 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:19.119 make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes, 290 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.880 counting your steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. 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You 301 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.440 include this story because you only have one and kill, 302 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.240 but the headlines are important. In this story, you talk 303 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:07.480 about and write about the difference in the coverage in 304 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.960 Western newspapers and what you had to say about that. 305 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.640 So yes, in September twenty seventeen, there was a few 306 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.839 headlines in the press around the world saying things like 307 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.960 cannibal couple and mid to eating up to thirty people 308 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:29.279 in southwest Russia, or details about Russian cannibal couple confessed 309 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:32.839 to murdering and eating thirty people and posing for selfies 310 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.240 with the body parts. So people were under the impression 311 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.279 that there was this incredible case in Russia involving a 312 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.160 couple of cannibals who had been killing for up to 313 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:49.119 thirty years and taking selfies. So when I did some 314 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:54.000 research on the case, I started with the info that 315 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.000 was available in the West, but it didn't match up 316 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.799 to what I was reading when I was reading Russian newspapers, 317 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.279 especially the local newspapers of Krassanda, who covered the case 318 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.400 and the trials, because there were several trials. So yes, 319 00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.319 there were the case starting in twenty seventeen because construction 320 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.839 workers from the mobile phone on the street and when 321 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:22.480 they looked through the gallery of the picture gallery, they 322 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.839 found photos of a that identified man with a human 323 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.599 hand inside his mouth and he was playing with body parts. 324 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:34.559 So of course they brought the front to the police. 325 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.839 They quickly found the owner of the phone and they 326 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:43.079 raided the apartment of the owner. When they searched the apartment, 327 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.839 they actually found photos of people that seemed to have 328 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.920 been the victims of this couple. The apartment belonged to 329 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:57.359 a married couple. The back sheets Dimitry and Natalia back sheet, 330 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.079 so of course, and they found, of course remains, human remains, 331 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.079 and some of the remains were stuffed inside glass jars. 332 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.640 So of course, the logical conclusion was that it was 333 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.119 the case involving canibalism. And since there were so many 334 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.559 different pictures of body parts and people seemed to be 335 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.519 victims inside the apartment, rumors spread and those photos were 336 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.359 leaked in the media, so you could find them easily 337 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:32.160 on the internet. So there essentially photos of this man 338 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.200 Dimitry backsheve with this hand in his mouth and holding 339 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.480 body parts, and photos of the contents. 340 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:40.519 Of the fridge. 341 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.680 And that was in the first days of the case, 342 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.880 before it even went to court. Under custody, the only 343 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.759 confessed to one murder, and it was the murder of 344 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:55.599 a woman that had met one week before. It was 345 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:02.039 they had drunk Wader and Natalie Backshave that she tried 346 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:05.880 to have intercourse this woman in her husband, and this 347 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:09.839 is why she told she ordered him. She ordered her 348 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.599 husband to kill her, and when he killed her, according 349 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:18.519 to her, he was curious about teaching her flesh. That's 350 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.920 what she said. This was debunked during the trial that 351 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:25.359 took place a few months before. After they never found 352 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.880 any trace of any other victim except this one victim. 353 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.759 And of course there were pictures. The contents of jazz 354 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:38.200 were analyzed and it was proven that they belonged to 355 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.960 that victim. But other than that, there was no proof 356 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:48.480 that cannibalism was involved, and Dimitary Bakshief denied everything. He 357 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:52.000 said that he never actually tried to read the flesh. 358 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.240 He just played with body parts because he thought it 359 00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.839 was parney, according to him, and he was a bit deranged, 360 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:03.279 of course, but there was no proof. But still the 361 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.559 European and American made yea telling that story of a 362 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.119 canibal couple that had killed up to thirty people. This 363 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:17.599 was never actually proven. Dmitry Bakshiev died in prison just 364 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.400 one year after because he was very ill. He was 365 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:26.279 treated for diabetes and there was a problem in the 366 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.200 facility where he was locked up. They couldn't give him 367 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:36.319 his meditation, so he died. Natalia Bakshiev was sentenced to 368 00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.079 a few years of prison, but she was not sentenced 369 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.279 for the murder. She was not actually convicted of the murder, 370 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.519 so she got a lesser sentence, and his story was 371 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.640 The story of cannibalism was largely debunked by local press, 372 00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:55.880 but I still chose to include it in the book 373 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:59.759 because I thought it was interesting to tell one story 374 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:06.920 from the two perspectives and how legend is created from one. 375 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.240 He go once in the fact that's taken out of 376 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.039 context by the press, and the legend of the Prosnadar 377 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.599 cannibalist is very strong. If you go to true crime 378 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:23.119 forums and you're talking about the case, people will tell you, oh, yeah, 379 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.640 they kill thirty people. This was the This never happened. 380 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:31.160 They only killed one person, and the cannibalism wasn't even proved. 381 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.480 But still I found it very interesting to cover the 382 00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:39.880 case just to show the difference in perspective. But the 383 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.720 other cweve cases that I cover are definitely cannibal cases, 384 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:44.880 though those were proven. 385 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.519 You talk quite a bit about the presence and these 386 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.480 people are sentenced to and you write them as strict 387 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.119 regime colonies. And one of the ones that's featured with 388 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:57.279 a couple of these guys or two or three of 389 00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:01.680 these killers, is the notorious Black Dolphin prison. All of 390 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.400 these people get this compulsory treatment in a hospital, but 391 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:09.480 also this strict regime colony. As you do when you 392 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.599 write in this book, can you comment about some of 393 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.680 the prisons and the treatment and some antidotes about those prisons. 394 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:21.640 There's five or six prisons like that in Russians. Most 395 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:24.200 of them are the names of animals, like there is 396 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.559 the black Owl and of course the black dolphin. The 397 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:31.279 Black Dolphin has been the subject of several documentaries, very 398 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:35.359 interesting documentaries. It is the home of several serial cullous 399 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:40.599 Russian serial killows and cannibals, and of course some of 400 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.319 the people that are included in the book ended up 401 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.759