WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:29.280 All the weather outside is frightful, but the fire is 2 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:30.760 so delightful. 3 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:35.880 And since we've no place to go, let it snow, 4 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:36.719 Let it snow. 5 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:38.560 Let it snow. 6 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:41.280 Man, it doesn't show signs is stopping. 7 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.840 And I've brought me some corn for Poppa. 8 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:50.079 The lights are turned to weed down load, Let it snow. 9 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:55.359 Let it snow. When we're finally kissed, good night. 10 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.840 Yeah, it's Christmas time going out. The classics are being played. 11 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:04.840 Everyone's doing the last minute shopping and trying to get 12 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:10.280 in the mood. And it is Christmas is a prelude 13 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:14.599 to the big day coming up here. And I hope 14 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.359 you're doing well. Welcome to earth, ancients. I'm your host, 15 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:21.959 Cliff Dunning. And if you're not in the spirit, I 16 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:25.400 hope you're getting in the spirit. And I've always talked 17 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:31.319 about eggnog and brandy and good food and companions and 18 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:34.680 you know, friends and things like that. And that's what 19 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:39.959 Christmas is all about, is gathering. And I hope you 20 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:46.319 are preparing for the holidays and whatever way that I 21 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.799 usually used to do a tree, now it's more of 22 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:53.159 a wreath and lights. Some people do big production. My 23 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:59.280 brother who has the annual Christmas event has this huge ceiling, 24 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.560 I think it's ceiling, and it's like seventeen fifteen, seventeen 25 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:06.200 feet high, and he gets a huge tree. The tree 26 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:12.080 is about twelve feet and my sister in law decorates 27 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:15.759 the tree as lavishly as she can each year. And 28 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:21.479 it's really it's fun to live vicariously through others because 29 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:23.879 I don't want to go do all that preparation and 30 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:27.719 then have to take it all down. So anyhow, we're 31 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.800 getting close. We're getting close to Christmas, and I hope 32 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.800 you're getting in the mood in the season. I just 33 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:39.800 got back from an amazing tour two weeks in Guatemala. 34 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.360 Had never been there before, and I got to say 35 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:48.120 that the group we had to a person, were wonderful, 36 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:56.919 really good people, and together we experienced the ancient world 37 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:02.319 of the Maya at places like to Call and we 38 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:06.000 started at Guatemala City and then we did a tour. 39 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:09.879 I got to mention this. The museums in Guatemala, the 40 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:17.719 National Ethropological Museum, is really fabulous and if you want 41 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:22.039 to see a few of the photographs that represent this 42 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:28.560 one major anthropological museum, go to Earth Ancients Facebook page. 43 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:36.360 I'm posting groupings of photographs the sculpture, this standing sculpture 44 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:44.120 is really quite wonderful, and there's one piece in particular 45 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:51.960 where this king is is really emerging from the stone, 46 00:03:52.199 --> 00:04:01.000 beautifully carved arms, legs, his clothing, and his face is 47 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.560 pretty much worn down, but you get a sense of 48 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.479 what he must have looked like when he was carved. 49 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.360 And it's just one of many pieces that I feature 50 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.680 in these galleries, and I'll continue to post these galleries 51 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:18.680 for the next couple of weeks as I can download 52 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:23.600 the information. I have a unique special edition that's coming 53 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:26.800 out next week as kind of a Christmas present, where 54 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:35.439 I interview one of the local archaeologists, a Guatemalan archaeologist, 55 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:40.120 who has a completely different take on what we consider 56 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:46.759 tolleric energy coming out of these pyramids, and I was 57 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.759 surprised that he hadn't been indoctrinated into the hole there's 58 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:55.040 no energy. These are temples built to the gods kind 59 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:02.040 of thing. This perception that I recorded will be surprising 60 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:06.160 to a lot of people because basically their belief is 61 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:12.120 from the generations of earlier families in Maya that these 62 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:17.120 are energy generators, and they don't quite know how that 63 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:23.720 energy was used because there's no more information. The earlier 64 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:27.040 generations didn't leave much on how to work with that energy. 65 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:30.879 But we actually all together climbed to the Lost World 66 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:35.480 pyramid in Tikal and sat up at the very top, 67 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:39.399 and you can feel, if you close your eyes a 68 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:44.160 low frequency of some kind of pulsation of energy that 69 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:50.279 was emerging from this pyramid. And this is exactly what 70 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:53.720 I've been talking about for years about John Burke's work, 71 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:59.319 this scientist businessman who climbed to the top of the 72 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:05.040 Lost World and to call and actually conducted testing on 73 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.120 how much energy is coming out, what the energy seems 74 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.319 to be doing, and the time of day when it's 75 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:16.800 the strongest. And we were there in the as I see, 76 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:20.879 the afternoon, so the field energy was a lot weaker, 77 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:23.879 but you can still feel it. And we were up there, 78 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.920 our group with some other people, and I wondered if 79 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.079 all those people were dissipating the energy. I would have 80 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.079 liked to have gone up there alone, but it's just 81 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.040 not possible because to cause a very popular place. So anyhow, 82 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.160 this interview that I'll feature next week with this archaeologist 83 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.720 is a little bit of an eye opener and it's 84 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:50.879 a breath of fresh air. And I'm really glad that 85 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:53.639 I was able to interview him and get a sense 86 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:57.519 of what the local thinking is on these pyramids. So 87 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.879 you can expect that next week now Today's programs with 88 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:07.519 returning guest Adam Young. Adam used to be a regular 89 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:10.680 in the very beginnings of Earth Ancients. He was a 90 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:16.000 research investigator and at the time he had in his 91 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:22.000 possession some of these stone were were from Egypt that 92 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.199 we didn't really pay a great deal of attention to, 93 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.279 other than the fact that they were cut with a 94 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:32.920 level of perfection and precision that was strangely out of 95 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.040 sorts for the time period they were found in. And 96 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:43.720 these plates and vases and bowls now have been recognized 97 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:51.439 as very very early pre Dynastic representations of an unknown civilization. 98 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.680 And they're very hard stone, and we think they're cut 99 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.600 on lays, but now we're not so sure, and they 100 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.600 are falling into the classification of out of place artifacts. 101 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.600 That means that they are so anomalous that no one 102 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:11.639 has a clue. In fact, at the end of this 103 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.480 interview today, you'll hear from Adam that he doesn't even 104 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:21.800 know after years of analysis. Our technology just is not 105 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:25.759 able to perceive. Current technology is not able to perceive 106 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:29.720 how these were cut, how they were shaped, how they 107 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:35.480 were polished, and above all were they used for everyday 108 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:43.200 household items holding liquids, holding food, whatever or has been. 109 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.799 Van Kirkwick, who he had on a few months ago, 110 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.080 likes to think they may be a form of technology. 111 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:55.360 They may be part of a machine, because the tolerances 112 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:59.279 that they are cut at are so precise that it 113 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.120 doesn't make sense that they'd be just used for simple 114 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:08.600 household use. Hence the term stoneware, like you would get 115 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.080 that you would buy at a store, plates and bulls 116 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:16.639 and cups and such. So that's our program today, And 117 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.600 I gotta tell you there is a series of photographs 118 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:27.480 that Adam has sent to me which represents the testing pieces, 119 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:34.840 but also there's some other images of machinery testing devices 120 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.159 that were used to get a sense of just how 121 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:42.039 perfect and how precise these objects were cut. So today's 122 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.960 program is out of place artifacts from ancient Egypt. And 123 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:53.039 my guest is Adam Young. Yeah, I got a new 124 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.120 product for you. It's called Nord VPN. 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Check it out NordVPN dot com, Forward Slash 145 00:11:20.480 --> 00:12:01.120 Earth Ancients and get your subscriptions started today. The term 146 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.159 out of place artifacts has been in vogue for a 147 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:08.120 while now. And when we talk about ancient Egypt, artifacts 148 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:11.720 are collected in the thousands, if they're not the millions, 149 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:13.799 and a number of them are out of place. In 150 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:19.759 other words, they are unique in many ways. Mohammedan Imbrahim 151 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:25.120 and introduced me to a number of stone where pieces. 152 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:29.519 This is about almost eight ninety years ago, and I 153 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:33.960 didn't realize that they not only are available to see 154 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:39.600 in the museums, but they're collected by people. And I 155 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.039 remember when we had Adam Young on the program. He 156 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:47.440 was discussing these and I didn't pay attention until Been 157 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.679 Kirkwick brought him up and was just talking about him. 158 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:54.919 And we've had Adam on, Adams coming back to us. 159 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:57.919 We had Adam on quite regularly about seven eight years ago, 160 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.600 and we have him back with this to talk about 161 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:05.000 these these artifacts. And you know, Adam's like, hey, look, 162 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.639 I got I have these for many years and I 163 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.919 wasn't paying attention, and I'm paying attention now. And Adam 164 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.600 is a research investigator. He's done not only some excellent 165 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:19.919 work in describing these out of place artifacts, but he's 166 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.960 shown up and was part of the Cosmic Summit which 167 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:30.000 just happened in North Carolina and was presenting these. So hey, Adam, great, 168 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.240 welcome back, buddy, and thanks for joining me. 169 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:36.840 Well, thanks, Cliff. Yeah, it's been too long. 170 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:42.519 Yeah, it's funny because you know, I remember you telling 171 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:47.080 me about these items that you had, and I thought 172 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.480 at the time maybe my head wasn't screwed on, right, 173 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:53.320 but they were very, very unique because of the precision. 174 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.960 But what was attraction? What was the attraction for you 175 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:01.399 when you began collect these I don't know, it's been 176 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.200 at least ten years now, right, Yeah. 177 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.240 I think I probably wasn't as knowledgeable back then, so 178 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.840 I was describing what I thought was anomalous, and I 179 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:16.440 think I had only conducted a few, you know, somewhat 180 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:21.480 rudimentary or initial scans in that analysis afterwards, and just 181 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:23.480 didn't really know how big it would be or how 182 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.799 prevalent this sort of data is. And since then, we've, 183 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.440 you know, we've I've created a pretty big team of 184 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:36.480 researchers from mostly North America and Europe, and we've been 185 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:42.240 conducting this in concert with institutions like museums and universities, 186 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:44.200 and so it's really grown a lot and we have 187 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.679 a lot more data. We have a bigger story oftell 188 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.720 I think at this point, and you know, it's taken 189 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:53.600 a while, but it's difficult because of the thousands of 190 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:59.399 years of sort of like dogmatic archaeological accepted, mainstream ideas 191 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:02.240 that we had to you know, overcome. 192 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.960 Do you now feel that these items are much more 193 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.600 important than just being vases and plates and bowls for 194 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:19.039 everyday household use or do they have more of a 195 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:24.759 place as machines or devices that are part of machines, 196 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.279 or sophisticated applications of some kind. 197 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.519 That's a great question. I really don't know. I think 198 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.399 it could go either way. I have a strong sense 199 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:42.639 that they were made using advanced knowledge of machining and 200 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.200 techniques to achieve the levels of precision and very little 201 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.000 tolerance as that we're seeing. But what to what end? Well, 202 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:55.120 if this was just easy and very possible, it's it's 203 00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:00.840 conceivable that the rudimentary, like normal objects would would be made. 204 00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:04.919 We don't really make anything today purely by hand that's 205 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.159 designed to be purposeful, right, So like most of our 206 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.039 most art is made by hand today, but not things 207 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:11.960 that you find in your kitchen and bathroom that's generally 208 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.440 made using machines just because it's easier, it's faster. So 209 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:16.360 I don't think there's anything wrong with saying these were 210 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:21.080 mundane objects. They were vases and stoneware or platewaar, things 211 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.759 like that. That could potentially be true, or they could 212 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:31.919 be components in something different, something with higher function. It's 213 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.440 been speculated by Kristow and others that potentially there's resonant 214 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.240 properties and some of these things that they could have 215 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.639 functioned in harmony in some sort of a monumental building 216 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.679 like a pyramid or other places. I just don't know 217 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.759 enough to say whether or not. You know, I have 218 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.559 an opinion on that. I'm more concerned with kind of 219 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.399 when these are made and by who, and less so 220 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.360 to what end. It would be great to have answers 221 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.519 to all of these questions, so maybe one day we'll 222 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:00.759 have a little bit more than we do now. 223 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:06.960 Yeah, exactly did Petrie collect these items? I know he's 224 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.319 got like cores. I was at the Peatrie Museum in 225 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:12.480 London a couple of years ago, and the cores are 226 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.160 very obviously some form of machinery. But does he collect 227 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.079 I didn't. I don't think I saw any of the 228 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:24.119 bulls or vases that are very popular right now. 229 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.279 You know, Petrie was all he was in Giza, he 230 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.319 was in Abydos, he was he was up and down 231 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:37.079 the Nile, and he he did, he collected them. He 232 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:39.440 he brought back hundreds of thousands of objects from Egypt. 233 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.119 So these were a big part of it. He was 234 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.000 fascinated by these. He thought these were originally he thought 235 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.799 they were made by like he said, he used the 236 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.680 term aliens, but he was talking about aliens that were 237 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:51.680 not native to the region. So he thought there were 238 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.839 some sort of invaders or Libyans or something like that 239 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:58.160 that had come into the to the area and potentially 240 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:00.960 found in Egypt. Because he he he had excavated some 241 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:03.279 of these in very old sites and said, oh this, 242 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.119 these people must have been who built all this stuff. 243 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.799 And because there's so much more advanced than any of 244 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:13.119 the other pottery or or lithics or or whatever surviving 245 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.119 in these in these burials, it's not much pottery would survive. 246 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:18.640 Generally would wouldn't, but sometimes it would if it was 247 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.000 preserved in the desert, and it was especially the Middle 248 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:23.039 and Lake Kingdom. We see, we do see wood objects, 249 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:26.680 but these were just of a much different nature, and 250 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.640 they seemed to be replicated in other mediums potentially later on, 251 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.720 such as such as the pottery. You see some pottery 252 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:36.400 that seems to be emulating a lot of a stone. 253 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.480 And so yet he was he was obsessed, uh, with 254 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.400 a lot of this. He he was in themes, he 255 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:48.160 was in the Fayoum, Nakada, of course Albudo's lux or Armana, 256 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:50.960 a lot of different places, and he he found these 257 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:57.240 in relatively small quantities in specific geographical locations. A French 258 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:02.839 archaeologist later on uh up to probably up to thirty 259 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.839 years after Patree first started finding these in recording them, 260 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.680 found many thousands of these at Sakara. So it wasn't 261 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.680 just Petrie, was others. But Petrie started really documenting this 262 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:16.960 and he was He's called the father of Egyptology for 263 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.519 a reason, right. He introduced He introduced really at the 264 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.200 end of the day, he was he just really cared 265 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:24.880 more than anyone else, and he didn't think this was 266 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:27.599 a treasure hunting game. He thought this stuff had to 267 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.599 be protected in some way, and so he did take 268 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:32.720 a lot of stuff back, but he's and he gave 269 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.039 it to his benefactors and museums and sold some stuff. Yes, 270 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:38.640 but what he didn't do was destroy it. He never 271 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.839 used dynamite. He was very careful. He was concerned about 272 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.359 preservation because he recognized the importance of this a lot 273 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:46.039 of this material. 274 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.920 What is the unique factors in these vases and the 275 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.240 I'm just going to call him stoneware because that's what 276 00:19:54.519 --> 00:20:00.160 I considered them as I have. Two years ago, I 277 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:06.119 got a part of a cup that was cut right 278 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.960 in half. I got it from an archaeologist. From that 279 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:16.839 Muhammad introduced to me. And the level of precision is machined, 280 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.680 is some form of machinery. But describe the uniqueness of 281 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:26.319 these vases, bulls whatever, that makes them really out of 282 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:31.160 place for the time period, and why there's such a 283 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:32.119 unique item. 284 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:38.480 I think it's important to recognize that not everything we 285 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.480 dig up and look at is super impressive, right, and 286 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:45.880 not every stone base is very precise. A lot of 287 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.400 them are a lot of the ones that we're interested 288 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.680 in analyzing end up being that way because we can 289 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:52.920 see that they are before. We can see that they 290 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.400 look symmetrical, right, they look very geometric. They look like 291 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.359 they were made by hands or something that wasn't making 292 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.799 the other stuff, and so you know, we have a 293 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.519 bit of a selection bias. Not there's millions of objects 294 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:08.880 that were taken out of Egypt. You know, we don't 295 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.119 have the time or the energy or the interest analyze everything. 296 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:15.920 But when we're talking about like the different categories, perhaps 297 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.640 generally the ones that are the most precise are the oldest, 298 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.960 So that is that's something that really needs to be clarified. 299 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:24.160 Many of them are labeled pre dynastic. They were found 300 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:27.440 in burials that pre date any of the dynasties by 301 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.799 up to thousands of years, up to one to two 302 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.200 thousand years at least, and I've heard other excavations have 303 00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:37.079 potentially uncovered things that were even older. But there's there's 304 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.440 a gap in the archaeological record also. But what we're 305 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:46.240 seeing is complex spherical geometry in these vessels called in 306 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:50.880 phases if you like, That is not of a simple 307 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:55.759 cylindrical nature. Cylinders are not that difficult to get around. 308 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.319 We can use grinding tech. Very rudimentary grinding techniques given 309 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:04.160 enough time, will in part round us. They have you know, 310 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:07.599 potentially low friction as well, so you can carve a 311 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.680 really really round cylinder with primitive techniques. But these are 312 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:18.279 complex spherical geometry. Sometimes there's there's hyperbolic features. Sometimes they're elliptical, 313 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:20.880 which is crazy. We could talk about that and a 314 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.680 bit too like ol in nature. So there's effectively too 315 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.160 radio folk. We don't know how they were made, but 316 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:33.079 we haven't. I haven't seen anyone make them really today, 317 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.640 even with modern machinery. We think it's possible. Sure, a 318 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.240 lot of people think it's possible, but it's expensive and 319 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.960 time consuming and so, like you were asking me earlier, 320 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.160 some of these used to be cheap one hundreds of 321 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.319 dollars or a few thousand dollars. That wouldn't really make 322 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.240 sense if it was very difficult and laborious to create. 323 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.440 Not to mention the the old the different geometric features 324 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.799 like the interiors that a contour to the outside for 325 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.279 to some extent, whether or it's not just a cordial 326 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:06.440 or cylindrical dig out, it's really contour and that's extremely 327 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:10.519 difficult to do in any hearts igneous rock. Right, So 328 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:16.519 we're talking about grantite diarte sometimes porphyry and serpentine and 329 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.000 others like that, but we're not really talking about, or 330 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.079 at least not enough is the alabaster, so that there's 331 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.440 a whole lot of alabaster. Alabaster was an industry in 332 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:27.519 Egypt all the way through the New Kingdom, and so 333 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.079 we know that Dynastic Egyptians did make a lot of alabaster. 334 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.160 The ones that they appear to have made, we don't 335 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:38.960 really see the level of quite the level of precision 336 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:40.599 that we see in the older ones, but we do 337 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:42.960 see some alabaster that appear to be old, that appear 338 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.440 to be as precise as the igneous rock ones too. 339 00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.000 So it's a long period of time. There's thousands of 340 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.319 years that evolved that went on there, and there was 341 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:55.559 different groups doing different things. But I think it's, you know, 342 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:59.000 something that that really was never It wasn't studied enough. 343 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.920 It was came to vogue in the Victorian error and 344 00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.160 archaeologists to use something called form based dating to try 345 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.359 to date some of these things. So they were found 346 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.039 in tombs, and if the tombs, if we think we 347 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.079 know the tomb is to twenty five years old or 348 00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:15.240 six nine to see whatever, then they would describe that 349 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.720 age to the object. Irrespective of the fact that every 350 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.519 rooms are handed down right, So that was always ignored. 351 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:23.839 But then they would they would say, well, this form 352 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.640 matched another form, we're confident on that date. So then 353 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:28.559 everything that looks like that, or most things that look 354 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.400 like that are now that age just because they look similar, right, 355 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.799 And what that's led to is just I think inaccuracy 356 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.400 and dating of all sorts of objects, not just these vases. 357 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:44.079 There's extreme it's it's extremely imprecise, is what I would 358 00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:45.880 the way I would describe it. Yes, we can carbonate 359 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.599 bodies if you can't carbon date stone, of course, so 360 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.480 form based dating doesn't make sense, and it relies on 361 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:52.799 assumptions like people are going to make the same thing 362 00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:56.200 for a period of time. We see certain objects that 363 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.680 are classified, they look very very similar, and the date 364 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.039 dates can range by two thousand years, which I think 365 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:05.119 is just really knowledgical to think that a group of 366 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.279 people would be making the same thing for two thousand years, 367 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.240 or that a group of people would even exist for 368 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:15.079 two thousand years. Right. So it's a huge subject. Yeah, 369 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.359 and we can talk about it all night, Like, can 370 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:18.200 you show us. 371 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.880 A couple of pieces that you find are great examples 372 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.960 of perhaps your own collection? 373 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:32.319 Yeah, yes, let's see. 374 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.359 My curiosity is that you've named a number of very 375 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:43.960 hard rocks stone and the initial idea was that they 376 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:49.400 were placed on lays and spun a great revolution and 377 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.079 then cut. But the tools to cut would have to 378 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:58.039 be very very sharp. And also there's the issue with 379 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:00.279 the handle or the grip. I don't know how I 380 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.960 should describe it. If they stop and then start again 381 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:08.240 and then carve the handle, it's like, how the hell 382 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.720 did they explain that? You know, it's a very unique vessel. 383 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.920 Yeah, so if you're talking about lug handles, you're talking 384 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.839 about these sort of these things, right or how how 385 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:24.000 would that have happened? Right? I don't know. It's it's 386 00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:28.720 difficult to to really even speculate. But most likely there 387 00:26:28.759 --> 00:26:32.000 was a toroidal band that was left around the body 388 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:34.000 of the ain't it and the materials removed to reveal 389 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:37.240 the handles. Uh, we don't. We don't see. What we 390 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.400 do see is a very high levels of precision in 391 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.759 the middle of where the handles are, which which would 392 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.440 not correspond to cutting the whole thing on the leaves. 393 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:50.279 So there must have been multiple processes involved. I think 394 00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:56.359 that's probably not controversial, but we do see you know, 395 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.400 we see other we see playing that don't. So here's 396 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.519 a few that don't. This is from the Peture Museum. 397 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:04.599 Here's another one from the Peture Museum that we be analyzed. 398 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.720 This one was remarkably precise, but interestingly enough, the interior 399 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:10.400 was much more precise in the exterior. 400 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.279 Are you showing something because I can't see it? Oh? 401 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:23.640