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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Fred. You know I regularly get asked about

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my all time favorite episodes, and this one comes to

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mind because our guest is Dave Stockton. Over thirty years

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as a touring professional, Dave won eleven times on the

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PGA Tour, including two PGA Championships in nineteen seventy and

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nineteen seventy six. After that, he joined the Champions Tour

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in nineteen ninety two and won fourteen times through nineteen

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ninety seven, including two Senior PGA Championships and the US

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Senior Open. Later, he went on to become one of

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the most sought after short game instructors in the world.

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So in this episode we tried something different as it

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was two complete episodes in one conversation that was presented

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at one time to Golf Smarter members behind our paywall

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and has never been shared publicly before. I know you'll

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agree with me that there's a lot of really helpful

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insights and instruction from one of the best. So here's

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Golf Smarter episode's number four hundred thirty and four hundred

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and thirty one from April one, twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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Speaker 3: I was never the most gifted physically, but I'm going

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to beat you mentally. If seventy five or six was

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the best I could do, has certainly made the sixty seven.

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I was going to need to shoot the next day

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to make the cut a much more viable approach rather

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than getting all mad and happy about it. It's like

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the two things with Rory, the one I alluded to

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for he won the opening where I basically had him

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use monitoring how he played the secondment, which is his

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PGA Atkiwa where I saw in the leak before. And

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he had a terrible year so far, up and down.

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He wasn't consistent, he hadn't defended a US opened very

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well at the Olympic Club in San Francisco and miss

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and cuts. As we were leaving Actor in the week

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before and I said, I want you to do me

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a favor, and he looked right at me, which he

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always does, and I said to him, I am getting

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really tired of turning on a TV and telling whether

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you burdied or both be the last hole. And I

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don't know why you're giving your opponents an opportunity to

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get you. I said, you got to forget the bad shots,

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and he did.

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Speaker 1: Own your game. How to use your mind to play

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winning golf with Dave Stockton. This is Golf Smarter, and

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now we bring you the full unedited seventy minute interview

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with Dave Stockton, including about five minutes before we actually

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started the show. Dave, let me give you little background here.

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The purpose of Golf Smarter. The way I started it was,

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you know, I'm not a golf professional. I'm not a

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PGA instructor, just a guy who likes to play on

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the weekends and I like to ask a lot of questions.

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But when I started doing this show, my thought was

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that if you have a strong mental game and you

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understand strategy, you're going to lower your scores a lot

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faster than if you were just trying to work on

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your swing mechanics.

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Speaker 3: Wow, boy, you you're You're way ahead of a whole

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lot of people. As far as.

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned, so it's so I've developed this following, which

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amazing because it's unlike radio, it's worldwide, and we've built

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this community on this whole concept and it's worked very well.

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According to you know, iTunes and Google online, it's the

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most popular golf podcast. So wow, I must have done

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something right.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing because what you're doing is not not normal

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really because so many people they get so wrapped up

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on the physical part of it. Do you let me

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ask you a question if you talk to Deborah Graham, no,

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John for John Stabler.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm always looking for new people to talk to

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as well.

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Speaker 3: Well. There it was interesting because Golf World ran an

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article about the brain in November, and Ritella and Julie

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Ellian and Coop and there were three or four and

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they ended the whole thing by saying, you know, they

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got a track man for the for the metal game,

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for the physical game, but they don't have anything for

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the brain, right, and John Stabler and Deborah Graham actually do.

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I mean, you can be fifty foot away from somebody

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and you can tell exactly when they make their decision

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to hit a shot or if they changed their mind.

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You can you can literally read it and know immediately

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this person is not not confident, or this person is

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not hasn't pictured what they're trying to do. It blows

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you away. I mean, she was a psychologist that I

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used at the Ryder Cup at Kiowa and in ninety

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one to profile my players so i'd get them to

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play better.

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Speaker 1: That was such a fascinating story. I love that. I

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didn't mind the name dropping. It added credibility to the book.

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But I but there were parts of it, like I

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was even while I was reading it, and we'll get

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into this when we do the interview, but there were

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two paragraphs in there that I said to my wife,

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I said, I can do at least a half hour

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on just these two paragraphs alone, right, because the nuance

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of what you were talking about, and I'm not going

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to tell you what it is because we'll do it

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during the show, but the nuance was like, we can

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pick into that so much, and I'd have so many

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questions about that. So yeah, I love that kind of stuff.

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To me, that's what makes the most sense.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting because most people they have no clue. And

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the reason is funny. I wrote the Putting Book and

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I thought, well, okay, that's because everybody consider themselves bad putters,

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and everybody thinks I know how to teach putting, so

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this will be a natural. And then I realized, after

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I work with the people, how many people were not

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good chippers. So we did the Chipping book, and as

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I'm doing that, I'm coming to realize this last book

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and on your Game is basically the most important one,

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because if I have somebody really good that I'm going

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to get paid to have them played better, I am

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literally going to have them call Debra and have him

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take her test because I want to find out and

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I want them to see how, you know, how mentally

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they're weak in different places and it makes all the

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difference in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually have. There was another woman in Florida.

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I'm blanking on her name right now, but I did

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do a show with her and we talked about the

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four different personality styles right of golfers and how to

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figure out how to play with them. And I think

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the thing that I learned mostly from her was you

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never conduct business on the golf course. You learn if

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you want to do business with that person by the

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way that person plays golf. Sure, yeah, I thought that

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was absolutely fascinating and really valuable.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, no, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Have you have you noticed lately on the tour where

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they talk about strokes gained putting this new stat that

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they're talking about and strokes gained driving. Right, So the

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guy who came up with golf metrics, Mark Brodie, Yeah,

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he was just on the show two weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's written the book. I you know, again, I

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have not gotten into that, so I don't you know,

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and I don't I know they've changed it in everything,

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but I you know, And it was interesting to hear

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him say that. You know, he basically thinks the other

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part of the game is more important, So it was

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kind of surprising.

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Speaker 1: Well, what I found out from him was that what

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he was saying is they everyone beats themselves up on putts,

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and I know that like if I three putt, I

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carry that with me, right, that if I start putting poorly,

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doesn't matter how the rest of my game is going,

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that that will impact my mood for that day. And

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yet what he's saying is actually putting you know, you

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should look at the rest of your game because putting

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only accounts for about twenty seven percent of your scoring.

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The way the way he had it, so it was fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So all right, so this is how we'll do it.

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I'll say, Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast, Dave. You

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say hi, Fred, and then we'll see where it goes

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from there.

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Speaker 3: You got it, Fred, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast, Dave.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Fred, good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much. I loved reading your book.

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It didn't take me a long time, but I consumed

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every word of the new book Own Your Game, and

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it spoke to me in so many ways. Is because

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I'm a big believer in the mental game and strategy,

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not necessarily course management, but strategy. And I love the

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way that you actually discussed strategy as a very different

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approach than just talking about the metal game.

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Speaker 3: Right. I mean, the people you talk about routines, and

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everybody thinks their routine is okay, what's happening just before

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the ball? And I tried to explain in the book.

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You know, you play a hole like the twelfth hole

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in Augusta under the pressure of playing in the Masters,

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your routine starts to minute you the second you drop

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the ball. The hole on eleven, because immediately you're looking

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to see what the trees behind twelve are doing, because

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once you get up on the twelfth p it's blocked

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by a giant grand stan of people and you really

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can't tell. So you're automatically already starting to think about

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the next hole. You're shetting, and as a good golfer

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will do, or most of the time, you know the eleventh

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hole is buying you anyway, so you might will start

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getting your mind and your routine ready to go on

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the next one. It's not and it's not just your

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physical routine. And for me, the metal side.

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Speaker 1: Is so important to it, absolutely, And I love the

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line here strategies about tilting the odds in your favor

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as much as you can exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's like going by a certain hole I

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keep picking on on Augusta. But you know you watch

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different courses. Well, let's say the let's say the Phoenix

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open that has the sixteenth toll with a million people

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sitting around yelling at you. You know you better, you

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better realize what the wind's doing and the conditions as

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you go down fifteen, because when you get inside that enclosure,

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you can't tell. And you know, so many people are

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affected by the next shot they're going to hit or

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the last shot they did hit that they're you know,

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they're not getting the whole idea, they're not getting the

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whole thing that could make it an easy day for them.

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They just have these series of blips that I don't

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they're not conscious of, and they don't they don't gain

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the perspective you know, when we all have when we

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have our days, we all play good. It happens so

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so easily that there's not a whole lot of thought,

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and then all of a sudden you get going bad.

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And if you don't have the wherewithal the get get

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it behind you and get get it turned around. Uh,

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you're in trouble. I mean, one of the things I

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asked when I'm working with people, I said, Okay, if

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you're only going to be given six one puts today,

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what is your reaction when you're over the first twelve

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holes and you make one? I'm thirteen so now, but

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you don't know you're going to make the next five

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no matter if they're two foot or fifty, you're going

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to make all of them. What was your reaction? Was it? Well,

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I'm a that that figures I've getting that I found

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an acorn or you know, something kind of negative and

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said instead of being in meaning it saying oh boy,

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here we go. Now I got it, Here we go

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and it's I don't know it. To me, it's fun

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and I'm glad to hear you, you know, talk about

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what you're doing out there, because you're you've tapped to

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exactly what I think is the key to having people

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play a lot better, a lot faster, and much easier

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on themselves.

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Speaker 1: When you say play a lot faster, you know, you

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talked a lot about pre shot routine, and I think

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we can do There were two paragraphs in the book

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that talk about pre shot routine that to me, we

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can do the entire episode on. And I'm just going

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to pick your brain on that because I feel like

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I have a good pre shot routine, but after reading

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your book, I feel like it's a very mechanical pre

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shot routine and I do the same things over and over,

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but I'm not thinking about or noticing the same things.

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Speaker 3: Well, did you remember my little story about January in there?

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Speaker 1: Please tell it? Because I've read the book. Not everybody has, Okay,

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but did you remember it, the January story about January.

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Speaker 3: Before I talked about January stopping me as I was

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going off the first team playing with he and Arnold Palmer.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, Oh, I thought you meant the month.

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Speaker 3: Yes. Yes, it was probably one of the most unbelievable

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things to me because I had never I've been on

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twury a year and a half. Of course I didn't

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I didn't make the cuts most of the time, and

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I was you know, I'd never met Arnold until that

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faithful day at the LA Open at Ranchell. And He's

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got me by seven, He's got January by four. January's

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and third, and I'm in fifth, and I get introduced

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to him, and you know, Heat's off and everybody roars.

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And then January' is the PGA champion. Heat's off. Everybody roars.

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It's my turn. And as January hits, I'm looking at

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my feet and my toes are just bouncing up down

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because I'm nervous as heck. But uh, and I'm heavy enough.

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I looked at my my shoes aren't moving. I'm going

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that's good. Nobody can tell I'm petrified. So I get

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my ball, stays on the tee. I give it a

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whack right down the middle, and I grabbed the tea

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and I'm not a foot away from have to grabbing

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my tea on a dead run to catch Arnold. I

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hear this voice, goes son Son and basically it's January

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and asked me. He said, what do you see out there?

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And I said, well, I see twenty thousand people. He said, no, no, no,

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watch Arnold. Arnold's now got us by fifty yards because

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January walks really slow. And he said, I just want

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to let you know that you have a problem today.

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And I said, what's that. He says, well, now Arnold's

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almost to where my ball is, and they're both like

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forty yards behind and pass me, and he says, you

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notice how far we're by you. I said, yes, sir,

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And he says, well, we're going to do that all

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day except when we can't putt like you, so we're

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going to be even. He said, but the problem you have.

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And now now Palmer's at his ball looking back at us,

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and we're still fifty yards for me to get to

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my ball, taking these little bitty steps, and he he

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looks to me, he says, you know the problem you

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have is if you go Arnold's pace, this is my pace.

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We're walking right now, and you're going to see me

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walking up your backside all day. And he said, but

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on the other side, Arnold can't hit till you hit Kenny.

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And I said no, sir. He said, well, you go

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my face and it's going to be very difficult on

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mister Palmer today. And I go, that's different. And so

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the second and we all parted. One. We go to

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the second hall and I can't walk that slow. In fact,

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I was sore and taking a little step. So I

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went to the left. Then I crossed to the right

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and there was nobody there, but I just made this

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big X and I came back to my ball. January

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walked by and he winked at me, and so we

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all parted the second. The third hole is a part

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of three. I only walked to one side and the

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fourth hole of my wife Kathy walks up and she says,

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what are you doing? And I said well, and I

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pulled her under the rose, put my arm around her,

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and I said, mister January said this about you know

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my pace of play. He knows I play fast, he

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knows I don't take practice swings, and he said, and

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he just said that I'm going to get derailed by

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him walking out of my backside, and I ought to

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think about my pace of play. I had never in

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two and a half years or two years on tour,

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I ever thought about playing slower faster. And consequently she said,

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what sounds like I'm a good idea to me. I'm

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on the eighteenth tee, I am. I walked twenty miles,

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I am dead tired. I'm five under for the day

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and I've picked up five shots on Palmer. I'm within

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two shots he Birdi's the last hole to win the tournament.

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I finished fourth, and I really learned something well. I

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passed the same same thing on to McElroy insomuch as

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when he blew the Masters, and I met him three

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weeks later for the first time because his caddie wanted

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me to work with him. And his opening question to

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me at Charlotte, my son Ronnie was with me. He says,

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what what do you What did you see me at

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the Masters? And I said yeah, he said, what'd you think?

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I said, I thought you had a terrible pairing and

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he looks at me like I had four eyes you know,

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I said, well, I saw you pair with Cabrera, and

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Cabret is the world's nicest guy, but unfortunately he plays

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just as fast as you. And I said, you ask

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me what I saw. I saw two guys that played

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stand around and wait and wait, and it was their

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turn to hit. They hurt. They hit really fast because

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you're both fast players, and they'd walk fast. Now they

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got to stand around there and wait and wait to

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wait again. And basically I said, you had no rhythm.

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I mean it was almost you should have realized that

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you were the last ones out and nobody you know,

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you can't. You can't go through the in front of you,

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so you might as well just take your time. Well,

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he bought into that. We looked at his putting physically.

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There was nothing wrong. In fact, he had great routine

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and stuff as far as the physical part of it,

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and I see him it wentworth three weeks later in

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London and then comes up to Congressional where I won

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my second PGA, and that was the US Open, and

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again or the lesson lasted maybe a minute or two.

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Everything looked fine, so I wasn't going to tell him

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anything else. We'd go to the last round the seventh

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to ten toll. The part three, he had two hundred

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yard shower. I'd be hitting the seven wood and he's

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hitting the seven aron hit at about six inches and

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then it gave him a five or six shot lead

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at that point. But the eleventh toll congressionals are really tough.

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Part four, water down the right, big trap on the left,

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and Rory walked off. But within a minute he was

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back up on the green with his putter, just one

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putting with his left hand, no ball, just you know,

354
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making him looking or the eighteenth green, enjoying the people

355
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and his kame must have been there seven eight minutes

356
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since Caddy finally walked up. Whatstled at him? He went

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back down. He hit the t shirt and I thought,

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this kid learns pretty fast, because he didn't want to

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stand down there on that tee like he did at

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the Masters, and stood there and let the pressure build.

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And so what would you know. It's a long answer

362
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to your question, but basically, that one thing that January

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did for me made me aware of the surroundings around me,

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whether I was going to play slower that day or

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faster that day, and it changes. It's not anything consistent

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but you got to do something that's going to make

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you feel comfortable.

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Speaker 1: I love that story. And please, any question I ask

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you can take as long as you'd like to answer.

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And I have no issue with that, No problem, okay.

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And you know I tend to be a fast walker

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when I play, but my preshot routine is very deliberate,

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and my putting routine is very deliberate. Maybe that slows

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me down, that changes my rhythm based on the rest

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of my life, which is fairly quick. Is that am

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I working against myself by doing that?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, we don't have a method. I say, Wade, Ronnie

378
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or Dave Junior, myself, Stock and golf. We use our

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eyes and our job looking at you is to make

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you comfortable. Well, what I tell you would be something different.

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I'd tell your neighbor or if you're a for handicap

382
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and they're at thirty, you're gonna tell them something different

383
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because and yet everybody is into this mechanical thing. But

384
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I'm here to tell you. I mean, I've I played

385
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golf too many years, over forty years on a two

386
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tour combined, and I have never seen anybody yet the

387
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normal routine is people slow down, I'll never forget watching

388
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,640
Faldo beat beat Scott Holk and a playoff on ten

389
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,400
in Augusta when Scott's got a two foot putt to

390
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win and he backed off and then came back in.

391
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I'm screaming at the TV because I knew he was

392
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,880
gonna miss him. Another one at the Masters with Ed

393
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Snead had a three shot lead with three holes to go,

394
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and all of a sudden it looked like his body

395
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had been taken over by an alien the last three

396
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because his routine went twice as long as what had

397
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been doing. And just because you want to throw a

398
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,640
dart in the center of a bullseye, if I make

399
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,400
you stand there and stare at this thing and slow down,

400
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:46,759
it isn't gonna work as good. He can't. And that's

401
00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:49,640
why what we call what we do the signature approach

402
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:55,039
is first lesson whether you're your Michaelson or Mceilroy or

403
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:58,400
the girl next door, I'm gonna have you sign your signature.

404
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,200
There's no right or wrong way, but you're certainly going

405
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to have a reasonable pace to signing your own signature.

406
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,720
Some people, like Billy Casper, would be very deliberate. Other

407
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:10,000
people are going to be very very fast. Okay, but

408
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,839
you're gonna be comfortable with what you do. But now

409
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:14,559
I'm gonna throw you out of your comfort zone because

410
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I'm gonna have you. I want you to give it

411
00:21:16,319 --> 00:21:18,000
to me again, only this time, I want you to

412
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,079
look at your signature. I want you to picture what's

413
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,640
there and right below it, I want you to duplicate

414
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,279
that same signature. But you've got to do it slowly.

415
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,119
You got no chance. I can't do the D and Dave.

416
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,720
I can literally not do my first and if I

417
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:36,400
go slow, I can't do it. And that's because if

418
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,359
it's something that should be in your subconscious and yet

419
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,799
you try to do it. You can. If you practice

420
00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:46,880
and you hit a zillion balls, yeah, you get to

421
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,960
a proficient level, but you'll never be great at what

422
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,319
you're doing. And because it's a constantly changing thing. And

423
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,920
so yeah, I mean I again. You'd have to watch

424
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,519
you and say, Okay, what's the normal routine would Fred

425
00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:03,000
feel comfortable with? And then I would want it to

426
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,480
be slightly faster rather than slightly slower because when you

427
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:08,599
take more time and I ask people, do you take

428
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:09,960
practice strokes? Can you put red?

429
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 1: Yes?

430
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,279
Speaker 3: I do. Well. Do you do you play pool at all?

431
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: Yes?

432
00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 3: I do, okay, and I relate pool shooting to being

433
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,640
a good cutter. So do I? Oh my god, why don't.

434
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,319
I'm willing to bet you that you don't stand a

435
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,039
foot to the side of your cue ball and practice

436
00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:29,319
your stroke you're going to make before you step behind it.

437
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,039
Speaker 2: No.

438
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: And I don't stand to the side of my golf

439
00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:36,480
ball either. I stand behind it, looking at the line,

440
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,599
feeling like what my stroke will be there?

441
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,319
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, that's that's what Annica Sorenstan had to do

442
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,240
because she'd bound and the termine she had to have

443
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:48,319
a stroke. Uh. Just talk work with Mike Wheer. He

444
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,160
feels the same way. He has to have that practice stroke. Uh.

445
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,599
But I find it humorous that most people shoot pool

446
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,440
just put the custick up behind it and now they

447
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:00,400
leave it still. No, they go it back and fourth.

448
00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:04,759
But the average person takes their practice stroke up by

449
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:07,920
the ball, okay, not behind it. If you're gonna take

450
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,240
a practice stroke, you should be at right angles to

451
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:12,960
your line, looking straight over the ball toward the hole

452
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,119
to feel what you're doing. If that's what you need

453
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,519
to do, I have a hard time believing people need

454
00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:19,759
to do that. But a lot of people do it.

455
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,799
But the ones that come up beside the ball parallel

456
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:25,480
to it, take a couple of strokes, put the club

457
00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:28,519
behind the ball, look at the hall briefly, then look down,

458
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:32,839
set their feet. They're looking basically at the ball. And

459
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,400
yet that'd be just the same amount as smart. So

460
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,799
that would use to throw a dart at something. You're

461
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,200
focusing on the number or the bullseye that you're going

462
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,640
to try to put the dart into. You're not looking

463
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,559
at your hand, and it literally blows me away that people.

464
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,240
I mean, I'll the first thing I'll do is I'll

465
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,119
not let people take a practice stroke. Get up closer

466
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,039
to the ball, set their right foot if their right

467
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:58,759
hand is set their right foot, put the putter on

468
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:03,200
the ground. Now look at the hole. Now set your feet,

469
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:06,799
which means bringing your left foot up online and look

470
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,720
at the hole. Get self comfortable. And I ask them,

471
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:10,519
and I'm holding onto their head, I said, you see

472
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:13,000
your line, You see where the ball's going in yep, Okay,

473
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,200
I won't let them come back. I said, go ahead

474
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,599
and stroke it. You can't imagine how many times these

475
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,119
people without even looking down at the ball, since they're

476
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,640
looking out at the target, same thing they would be

477
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,680
if they were throwing a dart. You cannot believe how

478
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,000
fast these people improve. And that the other thing, like

479
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:34,640
Hope missing that two footer to lose the masters. I mean,

480
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,160
if he just set his right foot, put the club down, now,

481
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,519
look at the hole and set his feet. There's no

482
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,160
reason to ever think that this line's not right because

483
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,039
you line yourself up with your eyes. But if you

484
00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:49,880
take practice strokes and come in, there is all types

485
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,119
of things that you go flying through your mind and

486
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:54,960
keep you unsettled instead of being settled in what you're

487
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:55,640
trying to do.

488
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:05,519
Speaker 1: I have noticed that putting on the practice putting green

489
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:10,400
is not the same routine and is generally more successful.

490
00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, well there's a reason. There's a reason why

491
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:21,039
you're you're your is more successful. That's why you make

492
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:23,319
the second butt you try after you miss the first one,

493
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:27,200
because that's so much time this first one. You're with

494
00:25:27,319 --> 00:25:29,319
it and you pull the other ball up. You don't

495
00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:31,440
take nearly asmuns of the time, and you'll probably make

496
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,880
it again. The two words two words we don't we

497
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,839
do not want to use. The first is the word try.

498
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,319
We want you to feel it. Second word we don't

499
00:25:43,319 --> 00:25:46,279
want to use is hit. I mean to me, if

500
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:47,599
you tell me I'm going to try to hit this

501
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,599
ball in the hole, that constant puts in my mind

502
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,519
the thought of putting a nail against a wall and

503
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,519
beating it with a hammer. Okay, I'm hitting that sucker

504
00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:59,599
right into the wall, whereas to me, putting would be

505
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,720
like making a paint brush and making one stripe down

506
00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:08,119
the wall with a paintbrush. I want to feel. I

507
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,039
want to feel the stroke. I don't want to hit it.

508
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,799
I want to feel the role. So we substitute roll

509
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,920
for hit, and we substitute feel for try, and it

510
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,039
makes a huge psychological difference.

511
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also noticed in one part of the

512
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:30,079
book where you talked about how professionals hit through the

513
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,880
ball where amateurs hit at the ball.

514
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, very definitely. I mean you want. I mean

515
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,000
you'll practice and practice, and everybody's practice swing is really

516
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,240
pretty good, especially if they're not a ball there, but

517
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,720
you put a ball there and all of a sudden

518
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,920
they focus on that ball. They might as well get

519
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,400
them an ax at the top of the swing, Whereas

520
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,839
in reality, you want to go through the ball, You

521
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,319
want to go go to a draw finish, go to

522
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,640
a fade finish. All of a sudden, the club went

523
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,200
through where the ball was without you thinking about it,

524
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,400
and as much more natural, and you'll get much more

525
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:03,119
you get a lot more power doing them.

526
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,519
Speaker 1: So explain to me a little further what you mean

527
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,359
by through the ball I'm picturing.

528
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,039
Speaker 3: I'm picturing that. Let's say it's the driver. I'm picturing

529
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:16,079
about the first twelve to sixteen inches through the ball

530
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:18,839
where that driver is gonna go. I mean, there's gonna

531
00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:21,200
be no reaction to the ball. I'm powering this driver

532
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,279
right on through that area. In other words, it's not

533
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,000
at it, it's not hit down, it's you know, obviously

534
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:30,000
most people would realize the woods you're sweeping the ball

535
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:32,480
off rather than hitting down like you would be within

536
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:35,240
an iron. But both of them, the follow through is

537
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:39,000
highly important. How how important is why can't a quarterback

538
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:43,359
throw a football off his foot as good as one is?

539
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,119
They say he steps into it, or what's the most

540
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,920
important thing on the free throw? It's the follow through.

541
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,839
It's not our preparation before and how we take it back,

542
00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:55,400
but it's how good. Our follow through is that makes

543
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,680
the thing have the correct line. So the follow through

544
00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,960
is really really important in golf.

545
00:28:00,559 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: M And you just use the word picture. And I

546
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:09,160
noticed during the throughout the book that you know, I mean,

547
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:13,720
you have a stellar resume, your your career has been

548
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:18,240
fantastic on the tour and Ryder Cup champion and Ryder

549
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,680
Cup Captain and Champions Tour, phenomenal, amazing, And I appreciate

550
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,440
your time talking to me about this, but you kept

551
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,079
talking about seeing and picture. You know what your swing is.

552
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,119
It like one of one of the lines that I

553
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,119
pulled from the book, it's not how you hit the shot,

554
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,599
it's how you use your mind to picture them.

555
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yep, it's to me, it's the difference between somebody

556
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:49,759
that hits one over in the trees and now you've

557
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:52,440
got a tree in front of you, at a big tree,

558
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,440
and so you're looking at the hall you're it's on

559
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,880
the left or right side, wherever it might be. The

560
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680
tree tells you, Okay, I'm gonna go up over the

561
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:02,559
right side, or I'm going to go under the left,

562
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,759
or I'm gonna do this because of how the ball's

563
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:06,799
gonna roll the fair away and you picture the shot

564
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:09,920
and you hit it. Oh well, the same next day

565
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,039
you make him the same hole and drive it thirty

566
00:29:12,119 --> 00:29:14,440
yards further dead down the middle. The pin could be

567
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:16,680
right in the middle of the green and your miss

568
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,720
is about to occur. Because you're so proud of this

569
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:23,119
fantastic t shot you hit that you don't give the

570
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,519
picturing element to what the ball, what you're going to

571
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,759
do to this ball. You did it really good when

572
00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:30,880
you're behind the tree, and it forced you to do it.

573
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:34,400
But are you smart enough in picturing the middle side

574
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,920
of the game to be able to picture something when

575
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,599
there's no obvious trouble the pins in the middle. It's

576
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,920
the simple a shot. But in reality, you know, you

577
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:46,160
gotta think, Okay, do I leave it short? If I

578
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,319
don't make it, am I gonna leave it short or long?

579
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:50,960
You know, I love to watch people practice on a range.

580
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,680
So say we're in Texas and it's kind of a

581
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,079
cloudy day and fluffy white clouds going through the sky.

582
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,160
I mean, I'm trying to go over a cloud or

583
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:59,960
keep it under another one. I'm trying to do it

584
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,440
all these things picturing, because that then I've got it.

585
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,279
Most people go out to the rains. All they're doing

586
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:06,480
is hitting the ball, and as soon as the ball

587
00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:10,000
struck they're reaching for the next ball, and they don't

588
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,559
even watch the ball roll out, when in reality, when

589
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:16,000
you practice, you should hit it and the ball goes

590
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:18,039
up in the air, you should be holding your finish

591
00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:21,240
until the ball's coming it starts its downward flight. Then

592
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,359
you can cut in your club halfway and then once

593
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,799
the ball hits the ground and you can trol your

594
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:29,079
club and move on to the next shot. But you've

595
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:33,960
had four or five seconds to pick up information about

596
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,599
what that shot you just hit. Whereas most people, I mean,

597
00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,599
how many, well do you watch it as soon as

598
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,680
they hit the ball and they don't like it, they're

599
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,480
reaching for the next ball, and that they don't learn

600
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:49,839
anything from the last one, and pretty soon here that's

601
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,839
a lot when you you'll go in cycles like the

602
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:55,160
ocean waves come in, you get it for a while

603
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,920
and then it leaves you. That's why you know when

604
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,480
you're out there practicing you do well in it. I

605
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:04,480
would move on to something else, but you know, there's

606
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,480
a lot to be said for the routines people used

607
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,599
to practice, that's for sure.

608
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:12,319
Speaker 1: But the routines that use for practice are not necessarily

609
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:14,599
the routine routines that use when they're on the course.

610
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,039
Speaker 3: There are. They almost never are. They almost never are,

611
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:20,799
because that's why my dad when he was taught me,

612
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,839
I mean, I never got the put with more than

613
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,160
two balls in the long game. He used to have

614
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:27,640
me hit five balls, little piles of five balls, let's

615
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,240
say with the nine iron, and then that's the nine er,

616
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,519
And he might be might have me hit a five iron,

617
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:35,039
might have me hit a four wood, might me have

618
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,960
me hit a wedge. But if he saw three shots

619
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,960
come out and they're all high draws, he would say,

620
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:42,240
let's see it, let's see a low fade, or let's

621
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,960
see something else to make me do the imagery work

622
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:48,240
to be able to picture the shot and feel it

623
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,559
of the shot I was going to hit, rather than

624
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,359
just one after another hitting the same shot. And we

625
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,279
can get really good doing that on the range, but

626
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:57,799
it ain't going to help you on the on the

627
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:00,880
golf course because the range generally is dead at your

628
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,240
first shot. Now you got a ball three inches above

629
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:06,000
your feet or below your feet, whatever it might be.

630
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,680
And all that practice you warmed up, but all that

631
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,559
practice didn't do you a whole heck of a lot

632
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:12,359
of good because you weren't picturing stuff.

633
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: And to you, that is the key is picturing what

634
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,240
the shot is before you take it.

635
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,359
Speaker 3: Well before that, I mean you get out of your cart.

636
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:27,279
Most people will go to the closest side of the

637
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:29,519
tee to where the cart is because I know we're

638
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:33,039
all in fantastic physical shape. Most kind of go to

639
00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:36,480
the short side instead of if the t is ten

640
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:40,680
yards wide, the optics on the left side looking down

641
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,960
the fairway are totally different than looking on the right

642
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,240
side of the tee. Every step you take the left

643
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,480
makes your optic go to the right. So consequently, did

644
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,480
the T cause call you to tee off on the

645
00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,519
right side or left side? For starters? Okay, and how

646
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:57,039
do you want the ball? It's the ball going to

647
00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:59,079
come You want to picture the line you want the

648
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:00,720
ball to end, but is going to come in with

649
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:03,279
a fade or a draw, all these different things that

650
00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:05,599
come into it. And if you do it right and

651
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,359
you learn to do it, it just happens naturally. But

652
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,640
you almost never ever have a shot you're not comfortable

653
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,359
with hitting. Instead of the normal person gets up there

654
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:17,759
and they see the shot and they go, oh, yeah, okay,

655
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,759
I can carry it over that water. I can do this,

656
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,200
I can do that, but they don't picture. I mean,

657
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:23,759
I had a guy last summer. They got up on

658
00:33:23,799 --> 00:33:26,279
a part three. There's a lake on the left. I'm

659
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:27,880
going to say it's one hundred and eighty yards, and

660
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,400
I knew right where this ball was going. He took

661
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,880
two or three really good practice swings, and everything got

662
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,759
up made of just a terrible swing at it. It

663
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,200
barely didn't get it, almost didn't get to the water.

664
00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:41,000
I mean he had a maybe fifty yards something like that.

665
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,240
He said, they do me a favorite, hit me another ball,

666
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,440
and so he gets the ball tea that starts to

667
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,079
take practice and he said, no, I don't want to

668
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:50,480
practice swing. I said, I want you to stand behind

669
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:52,759
the ball and I want you to look at that pin.

670
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:54,279
That's where you're aiming. And then he said, yeah, I'm

671
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:56,440
aiming at the pin. I said, how do you see

672
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,480
it getting to that pin? He said, well, I'm an

673
00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:00,519
aim It just left. I said, how am I just left?

674
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,319
He said, its full four or five feet. I said,

675
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,759
see that trap, that's about fifteen yards left of it.

676
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:08,960
I want you to aim right in the center of

677
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,159
that bunker. And because I'm picturing you're gonna fade it

678
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,719
that much, he hits a shot. He hit it. I'm

679
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,800
going in the air. I say, action, we've made a

680
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,199
hole in one. He said, though, and I said, well

681
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,599
you may have us now. He put it about two

682
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:22,760
and a half feet in the hole.

683
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:31,039
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're finishing the story because in the

684
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:33,679
book you just ask I saw it. It was like

685
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,519
it stood out to me. I was screaming at the

686
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:37,679
book where you say, have you ever seen a hole

687
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,639
in one? He said no, and you and in the

688
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,840
book you say you're about to and then you don't

689
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,880
give the results.

690
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,599
Speaker 3: No, no, and he didn't exactly did I did that

691
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,079
on purpose? I mean, it's funny. And that happened in Chicago.

692
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,639
I had two inches in Chicago. One of my first

693
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,440
years on tour, I was doing a corporate outing and

694
00:34:54,519 --> 00:34:55,920
I don't know why. I was on a little bitty

695
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,000
par three to start the Dave. This guy gets up

696
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,880
and it was all Carrie one hundred and twenty five

697
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:03,320
arts and I watched him swing and he was okay

698
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,960
but not great. Cold, you know, morning, and I said,

699
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:08,280
what are you hit and he said, I'm going to

700
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,639
hit a nine air. I said, why don't you hit

701
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:12,400
an eight? Depends right on the front of the green.

702
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,360
I said, you got a little bit over one twenty

703
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,679
five to the hall. He said, no, I can get

704
00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:19,760
a nine there. I said, now watch you and he says, no,

705
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,280
I know I hit a nine. I said, I'll tell

706
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,559
you what I'll do. I said, you take you hit

707
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,039
an eight for me, and if you don't like it,

708
00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:27,199
then I'll let you hit the nine, get a free shot.

709
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,599
He hold it. He hold it with the eight there

710
00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:32,519
and I said, okay, now you want to try the

711
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:34,079
nine for me and see if you can do? Is

712
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:39,920
this is good? He was so excited, you know, But

713
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,639
that's again it's you know, people, I don't want to

714
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:50,119
just blindly spendions billions of hours hitting balls without you know,

715
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,559
jumping in. And that's why I was exciting to listen

716
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,239
to you say you've had a lot of the psychological

717
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,400
psychology type people out there that work on the middle

718
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,000
side of this game, because I promise you and I'm

719
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,760
dealing with a lot of pros and I'm talking about

720
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,000
in the top fifty in the world on the Men's

721
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:09,760
Tour in the top fifteen in the win on the

722
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,480
LPG eight, and you end up working with them in

723
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:16,679
their mental side. That's where they can make the biggest rides.

724
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,199
And if they can make the biggest strides there the

725
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,800
average you know, it really jumps for the for the normal,

726
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,719
you know, and a normal amateur doing that.

727
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating that so many of these young

728
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:32,440
guns that are coming up. You know, the people on

729
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,920
the tour seem to be younger and younger every year,

730
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:41,079
but they hit the ball a ton, but they don't

731
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:44,119
necessarily have the mental game or the mental capacity to

732
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,639
play that quality of golf, do they?

733
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: No, I mean it's different. Mcelroyal, come on here once

734
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:53,880
in a while. I mean. Another girl I'm working with

735
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,760
is is Lydia Coe, which I started with her last

736
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,199
summer and I just laughed. She shows up here at

737
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,280
Redlands and I congratulators. She had played twelve pro tournaments

738
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,199
and she'd won three of them as a fifteen year

739
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,320
old amateur. And I'm coming for a lesson. I'm going

740
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,599
this out. I said, I'm not, but it certainly you're

741
00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:15,920
not going to take me very long. And she's just

742
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:22,400
a delight. But you know, most of the people you get,

743
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,480
you know, they're not wired that way. It just takes

744
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,320
longer for them to be able to figure out. But

745
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,559
I'm here to tell you that the caddies today are

746
00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:33,159
in better shape than the players were when I played.

747
00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:38,159
I mean, I was working with McElroy last week down

748
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:44,199
in West Palm Beach and we started nine o'clock and

749
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,239
he got I had him bend down to line up

750
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,400
this putt to go through his routine because I'm in

751
00:37:48,679 --> 00:37:50,840
at the other again, you cause you well can imagine

752
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,000
now I'm not necessarily into watching what he you know,

753
00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:56,400
the mechanical aspect. I want to see his routine. Well,

754
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,800
he goes to bend down. He had a hell of

755
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,960
a time getting down. I said, what's the matter. He

756
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:03,119
looked at me, he says, oh, he said, this is

757
00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:05,360
one of my training mornings. He said, I started five

758
00:38:05,519 --> 00:38:08,320
forty five, so he had had two and a half

759
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,480
hours of lifting weights and doing all this stuff. And

760
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:13,360
then so we worked for two hours and go and

761
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,679
to eat lunch, and I don't know, it's like a

762
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:23,199
chicken wrap and the cottage cheese and fresh fruit. I mean,

763
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,360
you know, well I'm having a cheeseburger. You know, sees

764
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,400
I wonder why this kid's in better shape than I am,

765
00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:32,119
you know, and they just I mean from the stretching

766
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,320
to the I mean, it's it's amazing how they treat

767
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,960
their body. I mean, in my day I'm a coach,

768
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,119
could I drink around a golf course. Now they're you know,

769
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:45,559
they're you know, they they they they treated like it's

770
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:48,280
a million dollar business, which is exactly what it is.

771
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,280
I mean when I played, I mean, you made a

772
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,760
lot of your money playing corporate outings. They're betting money

773
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,639
on the side because the purses weren't that big, and

774
00:38:56,679 --> 00:38:59,679
these kids, it's well worth their time to invest in

775
00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:02,039
a turn and invest in all these other things. And

776
00:39:02,559 --> 00:39:04,360
you know, I'm lucky enough with a lot of people

777
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,360
who've invested in having a short game coach.

778
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,199
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and apparently with a tremendous amount of success

779
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:13,079
when they when they come to Stockton Golf.

780
00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 3: Well, it's been I tell you what for it's been

781
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,639
a hoot. I mean, started it heasy, and I can't

782
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,679
remember one thing after another, but I had rotator cuff

783
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,639
surgery in September nine, which basically is that that ended

784
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:28,880
my playing, although my swing is a heck a lot

785
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,280
better because I can't raise my left shoulder up anymore.

786
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,800
And within nine months I had the other shoulder done,

787
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,239
so I had both shoulders done, and we you know,

788
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,159
I wasn't gonna sit still, so you know, it started

789
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:42,119
with Michelle Lee briefly and then went to Michelson, and

790
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:44,599
then the phone never stopped ringing. I mean, I looked

791
00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:46,639
here on the wall where I'm sitting, I'm looking at

792
00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:50,480
the Grand Slam in four years, two by Michelson, two

793
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,679
by McElroy, and I got all four of the flags

794
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:56,679
from the four majors. Wow, and Ronnie and Junior and myself.

795
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,960
We have one hundred and twenty wins and counting worldwide

796
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:03,360
in four years. It's just, you know, it's it's mind

797
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,039
boggling to me. You know how much success and how

798
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:10,039
fast you can have it if you just give somebody

799
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:12,480
a mental picture. I mean, I could list the guys.

800
00:40:12,519 --> 00:40:17,079
Michelson won. We worked with him Thursday and Friday, and

801
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,559
he won the Tour Championship the next week. Michelle Wee

802
00:40:19,599 --> 00:40:21,840
we worked with her Thursday and Friday two weeks prior

803
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,719
to that, and she went to Solheim Cup. In Chicago,

804
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,320
and she had an unbelievable time. Adam Scott, who Mickleson

805
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,800
wanted me to help, thought he had the worst stroke

806
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,280
in the world, won the very next week after David

807
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,480
worked with him at the Players Championship using a short putter,

808
00:40:38,559 --> 00:40:42,159
by the way, and Justin Rose, I mean David Start

809
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,119
helped him at Colonial. All he did was win two

810
00:40:45,199 --> 00:40:47,320
out of three and if he hadn't blown Hartford, he

811
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,280
would have won three out of three. So it doesn't

812
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,039
take that long. It's not and we're in the easy part,

813
00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:55,480
let's face it. I mean the short game. You're moving

814
00:40:55,519 --> 00:40:58,199
the putter maybe a foot, so there's not at least

815
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,960
your hands are only going afoot. It's a very simple

816
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,559
thing to do, and you can be helping quite a

817
00:41:02,559 --> 00:41:05,079
few people at one time because you're not getting immersed

818
00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:05,800
in the long game.

819
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:08,639
Speaker 1: But it's not that simple, or they wouldn't be coming

820
00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:11,000
to you and having such success. And these are people

821
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,800
who are at the very peak of the game.

822
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they just had the wrong teacher to start with.

823
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,199
I mean, my dad in the forties, I mean he

824
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,920
learned from Alex Morrison, who was a brilliant teacher in

825
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,119
the thirties, and he taught Henry Piccard, who won the

826
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:28,239
Masters in thirty eight, won the PGA in thirty nine.

827
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,800
And I did not know who had taught my dad

828
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,719
until I was inducted into the California got all of fame,

829
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,639
I don't know, five years ago or something. And you

830
00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:42,159
know the guy that I introduced was another tom self

831
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,039
was going to introduce me. He was another one of theirs.

832
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:46,760
Five guys my dad, taw All went on tour. I

833
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,519
was the only one that made it, but all five

834
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:53,480
of us went out. And he started talking about Alex Morrison. Well,

835
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,800
when I'm writing the first book with Matt Rudy, you know,

836
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:04,039
I'm subconscious cutting I. He started talking about Alex Morrison.

837
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:06,079
He said, well, yeah, he wrote a book. Well, my

838
00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:08,280
dad never let me read GoF books, so I wouldn't

839
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:09,840
know one than another. But he had a book in

840
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,360
nineteen forty called Better Golf Without Practice, and it showed

841
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,079
a guy sitting in an armchair thinking about what he

842
00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:20,400
wanted to do. He's sitting in a chair, no clubs

843
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,920
in his hand, nothing, you know. And so Matt Rudi

844
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,760
gets me an original copy of this book. But seventy

845
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,159
years prior to this us writing the Putting book in

846
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,039
seventy and I read the I look at the book.

847
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:36,719
The long game is worth about two percent. That's how

848
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,159
much has changed the short game. I'd say it's ninety

849
00:42:41,199 --> 00:42:44,199
five percent viable. It explains why I use loft on

850
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,920
a putter, explains why I ford press, explains why my

851
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,000
left hands my direction hand. It explains why I put

852
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:52,119
the putter ahead of the ball when I addressed the ball.

853
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:55,280
All these different things that I learned in the late forties.

854
00:42:56,039 --> 00:42:59,000
That you know, something I went sixty some years, never

855
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,440
never had change, never had well nineteen forty. This book's

856
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,880
out right. Tell me if there's something else that's been

857
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,519
devised for the stroke in seventy years. I mean, the

858
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:16,199
agronomy is better, okay, the grasses are much better, easier

859
00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:19,760
to put their smoother, no matter, you know, the clubs themselves,

860
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,639
especially like the groove faces on the on the putters.

861
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:27,440
Now you can just unbelievable, you know, bigger grips if

862
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,800
you want it now, for softer feel with your hands,

863
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,639
all these things. But there's never been and there never

864
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,480
will be, a new stroke developed because it's too individualistic

865
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:44,800
and so for somebody for a teacher that says, Okay,

866
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,760
I'm gonna teach all my students to put this way.

867
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,800
I'm just gonna. I'm laughing. I mean, I was at

868
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,559
the match play this year and I had Castagno from Spain.

869
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,239
Gonzo he petted with the claw. I had Molinari, who's

870
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:07,719
putting conventional. I had Stephen Gallagher who came and he

871
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,559
just beaten McElroy a couple of months agoing to buy.

872
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,800
He was putting left hand low. And I had Kevin Stadler,

873
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:19,280
who was using the long putter. I got five putters,

874
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,719
I got five different types of strokes and everyone I'm successful.

875
00:44:26,519 --> 00:44:30,079
So to me, that says, and that's why we're successful

876
00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:34,159
is that we fit the people with what feels comfortable.

877
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:37,079
Inn I mean, I'm watching Gallagher. He shot sixty two

878
00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:39,079
when he won and beat Macawy and third ground and

879
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:42,960
she sixty two made everything, made ten birdies, and I'm

880
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,599
watching him. He's cross handed, and I'm going I know

881
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,639
he wasn't cross handed here, So I go back in

882
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,599
my phone and I pick it up and no, here

883
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:55,880
he is putting conventional. So he came over U la open.

884
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:58,639
I guess it was la and no, it was at

885
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,440
Phoenix and so I'm there and I said to him,

886
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440
I said, what are you doing? He said, it's unbelievable

887
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,559
because you explained the left hand led, and I just

888
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:08,639
I had much better feel of it with the left

889
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:11,800
hand being low. And I'm going, how cool was that?

890
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,880
I mean, that was really good. And well, you know

891
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,199
If and Fred, they're all different. I mean, one of

892
00:45:18,199 --> 00:45:20,320
the biggest things. Usually I get the one eighty to

893
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,400
two hundred putters, you know, in the ranking. A few

894
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,360
years ago now, Matt Coocher came and he asked the

895
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,679
three of us. We were doing an exhibition down at

896
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,079
the Vintage, and he asked me if I'd look at

897
00:45:32,079 --> 00:45:33,920
his game or we would look at his game, and

898
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,800
we said sure. I said, I don't understand why you

899
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,480
need to help you. All you did last year was

900
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,559
you were leading money and you won the Barclays and

901
00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:42,760
you were fifth and putting, so there can't be that

902
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,199
much wrong except he putted left hand low, and I

903
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,320
know he flipped his hand, and so I asked him,

904
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,320
I said, what's your direction?

905
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:49,559
Speaker 1: Hand?

906
00:45:49,639 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: He says left. I said, make me a one handed stroke. Well,

907
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,440
the left hand never broke down and so I said, okay,

908
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,960
now this is what you do. You're telling me your

909
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,159
left hands your direction hand, but you're flipping it. You're

910
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:03,239
just letting your right hand just flip this thing up.

911
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:06,960
I said, I don't understand that. Well, five days later

912
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,320
I samitely open. Now his putter's got three more degrees

913
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,800
a lot, and the putter is probably six inches longer.

914
00:46:13,079 --> 00:46:15,679
And if stuff is left arm. By the next week,

915
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,119
the putter came out behind his left arm, you know,

916
00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:21,679
and he's gone from two degrees a lot to eight

917
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,960
degrees because he's ford pressed his hand and in the

918
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,559
present styl of he uses now in what I'm trying

919
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:31,559
to reiterate is again, it's not my method, it's what

920
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,920
method makes you feel comfortable. And basically the parameters again

921
00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:40,119
are we We don't care. They They asked me if

922
00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:42,480
I think along putter or something should be banned and

923
00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:44,840
all this stuff. He said, I don't care, you know,

924
00:46:45,039 --> 00:46:49,159
in my own opinion, because basically, I want you to visualize.

925
00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:51,119
No matter what your method is going to be, you

926
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:52,480
got to be able to see what you're doing. But

927
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,599
most people that do the mechanical method don't have a

928
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:57,920
metal method. That's worth of darn.

929
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: So what do you think of the long putters.

930
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:10,119
Speaker 3: I'll be glad. I'll be glad when they ban it,

931
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,000
only because when I grew up, you know, Tiddley Winks

932
00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:19,199
is probably more popular than golf. And we truly have

933
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:25,119
athletes now. Dustin Johnson McElroy is just a phenomenal physical specimen.

934
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,239
This Nicholas Cole Stark's another guy who worked with in Belgium,

935
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,320
is just unbelievable. They're athletes, and I just don't think

936
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:37,800
you should have an arm anchored to your body as

937
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,239
long as they want. I don't care if they use

938
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,920
a putter ten feet long, provided is not anchored to

939
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,119
a body part that's not moving. I can see where Coocher.

940
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:49,000
Probably a lot of people are gonna do like Coucher does,

941
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,639
because's on your arm, it's susceptible to you know, making mistakes.

942
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,079
But I personally just don't like the looks of the

943
00:47:56,119 --> 00:47:58,599
one on the chest. I mean, I'm you gotta understand

944
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:00,519
where I came from. I came out of the when

945
00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:03,280
they made a ruling for one person person. That's one

946
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,000
of the most tournaments temporarily on our tour. Sam Snead,

947
00:48:08,039 --> 00:48:11,599
you know they outlawed his croquette because they look goofy. Well,

948
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,559
I mean that they got under that saying you can't

949
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,320
step across your line when your putts. And now, you know,

950
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:21,320
I think sites that will may come back. I would think,

951
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:23,559
I don't know, I mean, people are going to figure

952
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:25,360
out a way to do it. I just don't think

953
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,199
it would be anchored.

954
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: And what about the equipment today. I mean, obviously, if

955
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,400
you grew up with Tiddley wings being more popular than golf,

956
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,960
the golf clubs were very different. Technology was not what

957
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:44,880
it is today. Has has all this technology change helped

958
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:46,440
the average golfer?

959
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:47,679
Speaker 3: Oh?

960
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 1: Let alone the game?

961
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 3: Well, let's say, I mean we start out, I always

962
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,119
use foot Joys shoes. Okay, now I'm with Nike my

963
00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:57,239
foot Joys shoes, the leather shoes. I used to wear

964
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,440
a weight about two and a half pounds between the

965
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,280
two shoes. My Nike with the two shoes. Now that

966
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,920
I'd play in their less than eight ounces, yeah, I mean, yeah,

967
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,320
just I mean it's mind boggling what it is. And

968
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,920
the equipment, I mean each part. You know, Carson had

969
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,440
the first you know, the things which they had to

970
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,159
be great clubs because they looked so bad, yet they

971
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,039
felt so good to everybody. I mean, Carson was way

972
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:27,599
ahead of the game. So now they have, you know,

973
00:49:27,639 --> 00:49:29,840
the composite heads. I mean, I was the third one,

974
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,800
I think, to start using metal woods when Taylor made

975
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,119
started with him, and I thought, well, I'm gonna use

976
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:36,800
them to they ban them, because I know they're gonna

977
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,159
ban them because somebody's gonna get killed. I mean, you're

978
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:41,840
never gonna You're never gonna see an aluminum baseball bat

979
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,639
in the big leagues, I'll promise you or else the pitcher,

980
00:49:44,679 --> 00:49:47,199
they're gonna be pictured behind cages because the ball comes

981
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,800
off it's so fast. And I think this has tremendously

982
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,679
helped the average person because in the old days, I

983
00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:55,679
mean we'd play the clubs, I mean, did pick up

984
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,840
weight if it was if it was raining, you literally

985
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,320
your club would get heavier. I mean it's you know,

986
00:50:01,639 --> 00:50:04,280
it's not the same, but it's it. You know, we've

987
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,039
gained from you know, the technology to put people on

988
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:09,400
the moon, and they now have you know, they know

989
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,960
whether the bigger heads are better. They know they're finding

990
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,719
Now the loft makes sense because you're you can tell

991
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,400
from the track man that you're watching, you know how

992
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,920
much spin you're putting on the ball relative to your

993
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,119
flight pattern. I mean there's so much stuff. I mean,

994
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:25,760
it's in I think that's one reason why for the

995
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,000
average game. I just gave a women's clinic today for

996
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:32,360
the ladies here, and I just grabbed their different wedges,

997
00:50:32,639 --> 00:50:35,599
and it's amazing to me. I think putter is highly important.

998
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,199
I think the sand wedges are important, and I think

999
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,800
drivers are very important as you especially clubs, And I

1000
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,320
mean I'm grabbing these ladies wedges. Some are some of

1001
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,280
them are very very light. Almost everybody in the grip

1002
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,639
was either old and slick or you know, just didn't

1003
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:57,559
feel right. And here's these ladies, some of them in

1004
00:50:57,639 --> 00:51:01,599
their sixties, a couple in their and I can hand

1005
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:03,800
them my wedge. It's obviously too heavy for them, but

1006
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,519
they can get out with my wedge better than theirs.

1007
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,480
So there's there's for the people out there, and that's

1008
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,159
why we need to have good professionals and have you

1009
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,199
have it. Hopefully wherever you're at, have an opportunity to

1010
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,559
get to a fitting center that the people understand and

1011
00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:20,840
aren't just trying to sell you clubs, but literally fit

1012
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,079
something that and I don't want to get off the

1013
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:26,320
first tea or on the first hold. I wanted something

1014
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,400
to work on about fourteen or fifteen. When you get tired,

1015
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,119
I want the club to still work for you.

1016
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's another thing that I try to advocate as

1017
00:51:35,519 --> 00:51:39,159
much as you know from what I've learned that buying

1018
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:42,400
clubs off the rack is not to your advantage just

1019
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,760
because your friend hits it well. But getting fitted, especially

1020
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,400
with this technology today, getting fitted is the right way

1021
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:48,679
to go.

1022
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,599
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, there's there's there's no question, and I do

1023
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,440
not try to even think I'm an expert when it

1024
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,960
comes to the club fitting. I am with putter. I mean,

1025
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:05,239
I'm I'm here to tell you I've you know, I

1026
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,119
was with Tailor Made for a long time and now

1027
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:09,840
I've been with Nike for just almost a year now,

1028
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:14,840
and I am really large into putting loft on a

1029
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,519
putter because it lets you ford press your hands. And

1030
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,719
I've had some of the most unbelievable statistics when somebody

1031
00:52:23,119 --> 00:52:27,119
measures how soon my ball stops bouncing and skidding, generally

1032
00:52:27,159 --> 00:52:30,519
it's with under an inch. My ball has got it's rolling,

1033
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:33,480
It's already rolling because of the loft and being able

1034
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,639
to ford press my hands, and yet I'm in the minority.

1035
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:39,480
Most putters are made with two degrees one to two

1036
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:42,480
degrees aloft. And they tell you, well, if you know,

1037
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,719
if you you know, if you get more off that

1038
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,599
you're gonna chip it. Well, not if you put your

1039
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:49,559
hands ahead. And any of your listeners can go out

1040
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:53,039
there and they can put there, they can put again

1041
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:55,400
the stripe on the wall with a paint brush. What

1042
00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:57,519
do you want leading coming down the wall? Do you

1043
00:52:57,519 --> 00:52:59,880
want the brush leading or do you want the butter

1044
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:02,480
and the handle of the handle of the brush leading?

1045
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,639
You want to handle the brush because that way you control,

1046
00:53:06,199 --> 00:53:08,599
you control the field as you come down the wall.

1047
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:12,159
And that's why you want your hands ahead. And if

1048
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:14,280
you don't have loft time I played against Lee Elder

1049
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,400
for years and he had negative loft, so he set

1050
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,960
his hands back, very similar to what Zach Johnson does.

1051
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:25,880
And again Zach Johnson will be a poster cow for

1052
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,119
there's no right way to do this. You gotta fit

1053
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,760
your eyes, you gotta you know, the speed you play's

1054
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:35,559
got to fit you. Your clubs have to fit you. Uh,

1055
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:38,760
And everybody's different, Yes we.

1056
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: Are and that's why everybody's looking for an answer and

1057
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,440
there isn't an answer. Clearly, that's what you're saying. No,

1058
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:56,000
it's what makes you comfortable, exactly. It's it's about confidence, Yeah, exactly. Confidence.

1059
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:02,920
So interesting. So I'm curious about something you were talking about.

1060
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:08,000
Your dad was a teaching professional and you grew up

1061
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:13,559
in that environment. Your two sons are teaching professionals, and

1062
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:15,880
you right in the middle here you were the tour professional.

1063
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:20,400
Is it was it harder for you growing up with

1064
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,960
a teaching professional dad, or was it harder for your

1065
00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:26,159
children growing up growing up with a touring dad, tour

1066
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,800
professional dad? And when I say harder, I'm saying growing

1067
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,440
up in the Gulf world.

1068
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,559
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, my dad when he

1069
00:54:37,639 --> 00:54:40,639
came up, there was no tour. In fact, my right

1070
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:43,000
here on the wall, my most favorite pictures my dad

1071
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:46,679
standing with Walter Hagen. When Dad had an exhibition with

1072
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:51,880
Walter Hagen in nineteen thirty seven. We are the first

1073
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,840
all Americans of Southern cal in the same sport. We

1074
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:59,760
both won the pack ten individual titles. But there are

1075
00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:02,159
I have changed. I mean World War Two, my dad

1076
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,920
ran a bomb plan and when he got through in

1077
00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:09,440
nineteen forty four, he went into the sporting his business.

1078
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,719
He still kept his PGA card and he would still

1079
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,440
teach the kids around and you know all that the

1080
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,360
five of us I said went out on tour. He

1081
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,639
taught all that, but he's basically working in the sporting store.

1082
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:28,280
My life was such that, you know, I wasn't kidding

1083
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,119
about the Tidley Winks, but I mean I played basketball

1084
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:33,320
and baseball till I broke my back when I was

1085
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,719
fifteen and I became a I couldn't do the other sports.

1086
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,440
So the only way I was going to be able

1087
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:40,559
for to go to college to get a golf scholarship. Well,

1088
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:42,599
Dad would let me you know, when work, I started

1089
00:55:42,639 --> 00:55:46,239
working on my game, saying, working on my game. The

1090
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,639
most tournaments I ever played in a summer as a

1091
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,639
junior was three, and that was seventeen. I was trying

1092
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:55,400
to get my scholarship to go to Southern cal And

1093
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,719
I played in the National Junior and I played in

1094
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:02,920
the Hurst Championship and the Arrowhead which is my hometown tournament.

1095
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,039
And it was the only three tournaments I got to play,

1096
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,320
and they wanted me. I went to USC as a

1097
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,159
pre law major. I was going to be a lawyer

1098
00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:14,079
because my grandfather, who lived in Tucson, was a mining attorney,

1099
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:16,039
and that's what my parents wanted me to be. They

1100
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:20,519
had no desire to push me toward golf, and a

1101
00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:22,440
year at SC convinced me that I was going to

1102
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,199
be hard pressed the last four years, let alone seven,

1103
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,880
And in the end, I wanted to try this, you know,

1104
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,440
this type of lifestyle and see if I was good

1105
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,079
at it. When you get to the kids. Junior played

1106
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:38,599
on tour almost ten years, and I think he would

1107
00:56:38,599 --> 00:56:41,880
have made it. He was close. I mean two different

1108
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,679
times we both led tournaments. I was leading the Tournament

1109
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,360
Players Championship on the Champions Tour when he was leading

1110
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,679
Hartford and he finished second third. Norman beat him the

1111
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,840
one year. But Ronnie had always had a bad back

1112
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,199
and never really played, and so consequently Ronnie's been teaching

1113
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:00,800
over twenty years. But David played to ten years. And

1114
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,599
it was real estate a few years ago. And then

1115
00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:05,239
when I went into this rotator cuff surgery and O nine,

1116
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:07,960
Junior is looking around for what to do, and he'd

1117
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,320
getting ready to go back to tour school, and I thought,

1118
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,400
I thought Kathy, his mother was going to kill him,

1119
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:16,719
and he started the teaching and David has always been

1120
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,880
good with people, and so it's come full circle, but

1121
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,280
from a whole different perspective. I mean, David's first child, Serena,

1122
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:30,039
was a twin and complicated pregnancy. She was premature, born

1123
00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:33,199
just over two pounds ten ounces, and right now she's

1124
00:57:33,199 --> 00:57:37,440
a volleyball star at almost sixteen. So it nailed him

1125
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,400
from being out on tour. And that's one thing about boy.

1126
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,559
Kathy and I were lucky, is that we traveled the

1127
00:57:42,679 --> 00:57:44,760
entire time together. The kids had always come out during

1128
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,519
the summertime. I would have said it was easier for

1129
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:50,840
them to make it with me being a pro because he,

1130
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,519
you know, while Junior is when he's playing the Mini Tour,

1131
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:56,559
the Nike Tour, he was ready to come home. I said, no,

1132
00:57:56,599 --> 00:57:58,119
he's back East, and I said, I tell you what,

1133
00:57:58,199 --> 00:57:59,679
I'm gonna call you back. And what I did. I've

1134
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:02,920
never got anybody else sins on AUGUSTA, but I got

1135
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,800
Junior on. Junior played thirty six holes on August and

1136
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,000
he won the very next week.

1137
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: Wow.

1138
00:58:08,559 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: So it's just it's it's the mental stuff that you

1139
00:58:11,039 --> 00:58:17,119
get into. I mean, it's I mean I'll tell you

1140
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:17,760
a quick story.

1141
00:58:18,639 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: Tell me stories.

1142
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 3: I don't have many quick stories. But Byron Nelson and

1143
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,599
I are having lunch together and he literally told me

1144
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,639
that in forty five, I asked him about when he

1145
00:58:28,679 --> 00:58:30,960
won eleven in a row, which is an unbelievable feet

1146
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,599
and he actually won eighteen out of thirty five events entered,

1147
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,039
so he won more than half the time. And I

1148
00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:37,480
asked him what he was thinking about. He got a

1149
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,159
big smile, he said, said, basically, I found something before

1150
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:43,760
I went to the West Coast swing that felt comfortable

1151
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,159
to me, and that was the swing thought I used

1152
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:50,039
for the entire year, the only swing thought. Well, I'm

1153
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:54,159
here to tell you your listeners out there, most people

1154
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,599
have they can't even remember the swing thoughts they had

1155
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:57,400
the previous month.

1156
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: You know who had the previous hole.

1157
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So because tips generally don't last very long,

1158
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:06,639
they have a very short shelf life.

1159
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: Are you surprised that that Ronnie went into golf instruction

1160
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,679
as well, since he had struggling with his back and

1161
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,320
couldn't play. Are you surprised that both of you boys

1162
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:22,599
did this?

1163
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 3: Well? Not well? First of all, if I hadn't been

1164
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:32,000
a pro goffer, Ronnie would have been something else. I

1165
00:59:32,039 --> 00:59:35,159
don't know. I mean, he basically got his pilot's license.

1166
00:59:35,719 --> 00:59:38,199
The reason he's good in teaching is that he was

1167
00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:41,599
a psychology major at the University of Redlands here, but

1168
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:44,079
his was a different course and he went to see

1169
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:47,960
he got mug sophomore year going back to Trinity Row

1170
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:49,960
and he came out transfer to the u of R

1171
00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:53,000
and he actually had Division III, ended up leading the

1172
00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:56,440
nation and scoring two time All American here, And I mean,

1173
00:59:56,559 --> 00:59:58,800
just to it fit his you know, he could live

1174
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,280
at home and we worked out really good. But Ronnie

1175
01:00:02,639 --> 01:00:09,159
can fix anything. I mean, he guy dives. Uh, he's

1176
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,239
you know, like I say, he's got pilot's license and

1177
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,840
all this stuff. So yeah, I am surprised he did

1178
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:17,400
that because just because he could do anything, really and

1179
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:20,360
just because golf was easy. The only hard part for

1180
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:25,000
Ronnie is that Ronnie is left handed. And I explained

1181
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,039
to Ronnie when I opened the closet door and showed

1182
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:29,800
him the five thousand clubs sitting in the closet, none

1183
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,000
of which were left handed, that if he was going

1184
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:34,880
to play, he was gonna have to use to learn

1185
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,360
to use these. So he's completely amidexterous, And you know,

1186
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,880
I just I did not suspect that he would end

1187
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,239
up being the golfer because I knew he was going

1188
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,199
to find something else because everything he touches turns the gold.

1189
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:49,480
He's good at almost anything.

1190
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:57,159
Speaker 1: Spoken like a proud papa. Yep, and I understand it completely.

1191
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:03,440
Now you're listed is sixteenth on the America's list of

1192
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,360
top instructors. You're a competitive person. Does that frustrate you

1193
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:09,800
who are like, no, I want to be fifteen, I

1194
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,800
want to get up to ten. I want to I

1195
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,920
want to get into single digits or.

1196
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 3: Do you I think I think I'm pushing my luck

1197
01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:20,760
because I'm a short game instructor that you know most

1198
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,199
of those people, you know, this is how they make

1199
01:01:25,239 --> 01:01:26,920
a living. I mean, yeah, I guess I'm making a

1200
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,119
very good living doing what I'm doing. But it's not

1201
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,360
I'm not trying to build my name up or anything.

1202
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,239
I last year, I think I was thirteenth two years ago.

1203
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,679
Whatever it was, it was the largest largest first time

1204
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,039
jump onto a survey that they've ever had of somebody

1205
01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:48,320
that had never been ranked before. So no, I'm very

1206
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,840
proud that it's there. I'm glad you know, I'm like,

1207
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,840
I'm number one in California and only because Jim Flick

1208
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:58,679
passed away unfortunately. But you know that's I think that's more.

1209
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,119
That's kind of incredible, just you know, being a short

1210
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:06,880
game known as a short game instructor. I'm very prideful

1211
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,039
of that. I mean, I think that's phenomenal. I have

1212
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:11,599
no I'm not setting my goal, you know, Okay, I'm

1213
01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:13,280
gonna try to get in the top ten next year.

1214
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,800
I can't change anything I'm doing. I couldn't handle more people.

1215
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:19,280
I mean, I had a week here a month ago

1216
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:24,239
where I had nyon Joy, I had Gallagher from Scotland.

1217
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:29,559
I had Francesco Molinari from Italy. I had Cole Starts

1218
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:33,519
in Belgium. I had Johnny Vegas from Venzuela. I told

1219
01:02:33,599 --> 01:02:36,679
my wife Cathy, I said, how cool the five days

1220
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:40,519
has this been. I mean, let's face it. I mean

1221
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:42,679
it keeps me young. I mean two weeks from now,

1222
01:02:42,679 --> 01:02:45,079
I'll be down in Augusta and I'll be walking in

1223
01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:47,360
out of the clubhouse, talking with guys and everything and

1224
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,639
feeling not anywhere, feeling nearly as old as a seventy

1225
01:02:50,639 --> 01:02:54,159
two year old than I am and feeling relevant because

1226
01:02:54,159 --> 01:02:56,599
I know that I can pass on stuff that's going

1227
01:02:56,679 --> 01:02:57,320
to help them.

1228
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: Oh that's fabulous. Feeling relevant is what a great way

1229
01:03:02,039 --> 01:03:04,960
to put it. That's that will make you want to

1230
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:05,840
wake up in the morning.

1231
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good. No, it it's great. And you never

1232
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,760
know what's coming. And since I don't teach the same

1233
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,400
thing to everybody, I mean, every everything is like it.

1234
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,119
It's like an open book and I'm still learning. It's

1235
01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:20,119
it's neat.

1236
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:22,199
Speaker 1: And clearly very passionate about what you're doing.

1237
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a need for what we're doing. I think

1238
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,599
we've opened up a lot of eyes and I you know,

1239
01:03:28,679 --> 01:03:31,119
and the success is there. I mean, nobody can argue

1240
01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:33,400
with what we've had, you know. And the best thing

1241
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,480
I like about it is we don't have an approach

1242
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:38,480
other than the fact it's a lot more metal than

1243
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,599
most people realize. Hence this last book.

1244
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:43,679
Speaker 1: Well, and the book is called Own Your Game, How

1245
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:47,159
to Use your Mind to play Winning Golf, And it's

1246
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:49,760
going to be listed in in our golfers Mart on

1247
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,639
our website. And as a matter of fact, I'll put

1248
01:03:51,679 --> 01:03:54,639
all three of your books available in our in our

1249
01:03:54,679 --> 01:03:57,719
store on our website at Golfsmarter dot com. The books

1250
01:03:57,719 --> 01:04:02,519
are Unconscious Putting and Unconscious along with Own Your Game,

1251
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:05,679
the brand new one which I just loved. Why do

1252
01:04:05,679 --> 01:04:08,400
you call them unconscious putting and unconscious scoring?

1253
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:11,639
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's just again, we don't want you

1254
01:04:11,679 --> 01:04:15,360
to try. I mean, you you do your signature and

1255
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:21,039
you don't think about anything, and it's beautiful, pretty close

1256
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:23,480
to the same every time. But now you try to

1257
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,280
do it, and I promise you it's gonna feel terrible,

1258
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:30,400
it's gonna look terrible, and you're not gonna enjoy the process.

1259
01:04:31,079 --> 01:04:34,800
So it's that's the whole purpose. I mean, we want

1260
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,239
you just let it go. There's a whole I mean,

1261
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,119
how many things do you think about when you're throwing

1262
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:43,599
a dart at a bullseye? I mean you're thinking about

1263
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:45,639
where your weight is, or you're thinking about where your

1264
01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:48,480
eyes are looking. Are you thinking about your left shoulder

1265
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,440
going up or down or whatever? I mean, you're not

1266
01:04:50,599 --> 01:04:51,159
thinking of that.

1267
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: But what about shooting a free throw? Yeah, well, I'm

1268
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,000
sure that there's things that you're gonna be thinking about.

1269
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: Well, they're better concentrated on the front of the rim

1270
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,920
and you're follow through. I mean, let's face at the

1271
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,280
Mayor Brothers years ago in the eighties and the Olympics.

1272
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,239
I was a little kid. I was not a little kid.

1273
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,519
I'm watching them stand there outside the starting gee with

1274
01:05:14,679 --> 01:05:17,000
their eyes closed, and you can see him running the

1275
01:05:17,079 --> 01:05:19,800
course in their minds. You can see him going the

1276
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:25,199
tight turns in long slooping, sloping turn to the left maybe,

1277
01:05:25,519 --> 01:05:27,360
and you can just see him going through this in

1278
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,559
their mind and they step up and they do it,

1279
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,719
just like the person that has this shot under the

1280
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,440
trees that you've got to do something too, versus the

1281
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,320
poor devil that stands in the middle of the fairway

1282
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:38,800
and has no clue and I'm so proud of this

1283
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,559
wonderful tea shot. He's just it and he doesn't realize

1284
01:05:42,599 --> 01:05:44,039
the disaster that's going to happen.

1285
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:50,559
Speaker 1: Did you always use visualization even before it became, you know,

1286
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,440
popular to do so or to talk about it. Did

1287
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,360
you know that you were doing that before it was instructed?

1288
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 3: Well, just by the way my dad taught me, mm hmm.

1289
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:03,280
You see that tree there, Okay, I want you to

1290
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,480
hit it just under the top of that tree. Or

1291
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:07,840
he'd have me go out and I'd do this with

1292
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,679
my kids. I'd have him take every other club out

1293
01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:12,840
of their banks, so instead of having a you know, three,

1294
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,039
four five six seventy eighty nine, they'd have a three

1295
01:06:15,159 --> 01:06:18,400
five seven nine. You'd be surprised how good you get

1296
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,320
when you got like thirty yard increments or fifteen twenty

1297
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,239
yard increments between two clubs. You have to learn how

1298
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:25,760
to hit different shots.

1299
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,519
Speaker 1: I loved one of the things that you also mentioned

1300
01:06:28,519 --> 01:06:31,320
in the book about taking two clubs with you to

1301
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,000
the ball before you know, before your shot. Don't just say, oh,

1302
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,599
it's one hundred and fifty yards, I'm just going to

1303
01:06:36,639 --> 01:06:41,480
take out my six iron or whatever. Take take two clubs.

1304
01:06:41,639 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I worked with one of the LPGA

1305
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,760
girls yesterday and I know she's going to be better

1306
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,400
of it. I said, what do you ask your caddy?

1307
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:52,960
I mean, your caddy's standing there. You know, I'm assuming,

1308
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:55,480
hopefully I know what you do because everybody else does it.

1309
01:06:55,719 --> 01:06:57,119
Let's say you think it's the same he says, one

1310
01:06:57,159 --> 01:06:58,519
hundred and fify yards, I'll say, you're gonna got a

1311
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:01,280
seven arn kids a day it wedge. But let's pretend

1312
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,880
my school, so we're hitting seven. Are you put your

1313
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:05,639
hand on your seven you get it halfway out of

1314
01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:07,039
the bag and you turn to your caddy and say,

1315
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:10,199
what do you think seven? Well, since you've already started

1316
01:07:10,199 --> 01:07:11,960
the club coming out of the bag, what's the caddy

1317
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:14,920
gonna say? He knows it should be an eight, so

1318
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,039
he'd say just yeah, nice and smooth, fine, okay, which

1319
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,760
tells you then, hum, he doesn't think I have to

1320
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,280
hit this very big, or he says, now go ahead,

1321
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,000
just hit a good one. That'll be good, meaning you

1322
01:07:27,079 --> 01:07:30,039
better nail this thing, because I was thinking six iron.

1323
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,679
So what I do is I go past it. And

1324
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:34,960
the way my dad taught me was that every club

1325
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,400
I have, it's between two clubs. So in fact, he

1326
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,039
would do a drill. We'd go out on a course

1327
01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:43,199
and he'd make me hit two or three clubs to

1328
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:47,480
one pin, and I'd have to hit different shots. And

1329
01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:50,719
I got the creativity to come that way. So consequently,

1330
01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:54,000
what I told the girl yesterday is basically I want you,

1331
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:55,920
and I brought the caddy over. I said, she's not

1332
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:58,400
going to ask you what you think seven aron. The

1333
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,360
new question is going to be you're gonna tell her

1334
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:01,719
of the yard? If you're gonna tell her one point

1335
01:08:01,679 --> 01:08:05,360
fifty she's gonna ask you, what two clubs do you think?

1336
01:08:06,559 --> 01:08:10,000
So you're either gonna say six seven or you're gonna

1337
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:15,119
say seven eight. Now she's quietly thinking seven eight, okay.

1338
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:21,039
He says, uh, six seven okay, perfect, it's a seven

1339
01:08:21,079 --> 01:08:23,399
are even though she thought seven eight and he thought

1340
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,000
six seven. But it's already let her know that he's

1341
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,880
thinking this whole plan slightly longer than she thinks. Now

1342
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,520
you may both come up with the same club seven eight.

1343
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:36,680
That's fine. It's up to her to decide or him

1344
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,960
to decide when you hit the shot, how high it's

1345
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,039
gonna go, where it's gonna land. You know, this sort

1346
01:08:42,079 --> 01:08:44,560
of thing, But it makes it. It's just another step

1347
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,359
in the process of giving you a chance to hit

1348
01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:50,520
the correct shot at something right right.

1349
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:54,279
Speaker 1: So you told a great story about your interaction with

1350
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:57,279
January when you're a young man on the tour bright,

1351
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:59,520
But can you tell me what do you think is

1352
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,840
the best advice you've ever received as a golfer, Not

1353
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,840
as an instructor, not as a touring player, but as

1354
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,560
a golfer. What's the best advice you've ever received?

1355
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,119
Speaker 3: Probably the way I've lived my life. I told people

1356
01:09:14,159 --> 01:09:18,920
I've gone through life with basically not having anything bad

1357
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:22,119
happen to me, although I've had some health problems, you know,

1358
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:25,880
recently with my shoulders and stuff. But even breaking my

1359
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,239
back was a good positive thing because it kept me

1360
01:09:28,239 --> 01:09:31,119
out of Vietnam. Now, they had five hundred some kids

1361
01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:34,199
went in here in nineteen sixty seven, and only two

1362
01:09:34,199 --> 01:09:38,720
of us out of five hundred were four f And consequently,

1363
01:09:39,039 --> 01:09:43,840
I would guess that my feelings were the fact that

1364
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,920
I was never the most gifted physically, but I'm going

1365
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,520
to beat you mentally, and so you never give up.

1366
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,079
If seventy five or six was the best I could do,

1367
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,479
it certainly made the sixty seven. I was going to

1368
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,159
need to shoot the next day to make the cut

1369
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,800
a much more viable approach rather than getting all mad

1370
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,119
and huffy about it because he just you know. It's

1371
01:10:05,199 --> 01:10:08,039
like the two things with Rory, the one I alluded

1372
01:10:08,079 --> 01:10:11,079
to where he won the Open, where I basically had him.

1373
01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:15,039
He was monitoring how he played the secondman one, which

1374
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:17,840
is his PGA at Kiowa, where I saw in the

1375
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:19,920
week before, and he had a terrible year so far.

1376
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,319
He'd been up and down. His girlfriend, who's now a

1377
01:10:22,399 --> 01:10:26,399
fiance was an Aki, the tennis player. Uh me, he

1378
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,680
just he wasn't consistent. He missed, he hadn't defended his

1379
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,920
US opened very well at Olympic Club in San Francisco.

1380
01:10:33,039 --> 01:10:35,680
He missed and cuts me as we were leaving Akron

1381
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,399
the week before, I'm leaving to go play Minnesota, and

1382
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,439
he's so I'm getting on Wednesday, and I said, I

1383
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:43,000
want you to do me a favor. And he looks

1384
01:10:43,079 --> 01:10:45,039
right at me, which he always does, and I said

1385
01:10:45,039 --> 01:10:48,079
to him, I said, you know, I am getting really

1386
01:10:48,119 --> 01:10:50,439
tired of turning on a TV and telling whether you

1387
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,000
burdy or bowie the last hole. And I don't know

1388
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:57,319
why you're giving these people, your opponents, an opportunity.

1389
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:57,199
Speaker 1: To get you.

1390
01:10:58,119 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 3: I said, you just you just have to, uh you

1391
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:05,079
got to forget the bad shots, and he did. I

1392
01:11:05,119 --> 01:11:09,119
mean literally, he won the PGA QUBA by eight shots.

1393
01:11:09,119 --> 01:11:12,359
He won both these majors by eight but it was

1394
01:11:13,319 --> 01:11:14,800
it was kind of neat from the fact that he

1395
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:19,079
shot seventy six in the second round. Seventy six is

1396
01:11:19,199 --> 01:11:23,880
still one by eight eight. Yeah, So I mean there's

1397
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,000
you know, there's again. I'll go back and back to that,

1398
01:11:27,119 --> 01:11:29,680
but that's basically I guess if he asked my blessing.

1399
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,000
I learned one of the cutest things for me. I

1400
01:11:32,039 --> 01:11:35,399
was fishing in Seattle and this older gentleman. I went

1401
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,640
out on this boat with him. He had an old boat,

1402
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,359
had both kids with me. I'd been going for years

1403
01:11:40,359 --> 01:11:42,800
and these fancy cabin cruiser and couldn't catch a salmon.

1404
01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:46,520
This guy caught five in the first hour fishing this thing,

1405
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,640
and he's got the lure's name. It's really cute. So

1406
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,079
I left the kids overnight. I went to Plague, went back,

1407
01:11:52,119 --> 01:11:54,439
played the pro am, came back out where in the

1408
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,439
boat and his name was Mike Hunt. And he turned

1409
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:57,600
to me and he says, how old do you think

1410
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:01,119
I am. I'm looking at him. He's Norwegian, big hands.

1411
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:02,920
I said, I don't know, Mike. You got to be

1412
01:12:03,039 --> 01:12:07,119
sixty eight or nine. Somebody says, yeah, I'm seventy nine.

1413
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:09,319
Said I don't look at do And I said no.

1414
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,880
He says, you know why, I said no, not exactly.

1415
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,239
He said, if God didn't count, the day's just spent fishing.

1416
01:12:15,399 --> 01:12:19,159
And I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking and because he

1417
01:12:19,239 --> 01:12:21,279
is getting toward, you know, September is getting toward the

1418
01:12:21,359 --> 01:12:23,279
end of the year, you're starting to lose patience. It's

1419
01:12:23,319 --> 01:12:25,960
not quite heading season. It was like a twilight zone

1420
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:30,039
for me. And I went out to play an ever

1421
01:12:30,079 --> 01:12:32,760
at this tournament, and if I hadn't invited Bobby Cole,

1422
01:12:33,159 --> 01:12:34,840
I would have won it. I finished second, but I

1423
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,319
spent the entire four days thinking about how God didn't

1424
01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:41,640
count the days I spent golfing, and I couldn't believe

1425
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,439
how relaxed that made me instead of getting all tensed

1426
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,560
up and everything else. You know, so I'm always finding

1427
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,199
stuff like that. Well, Fred, I've got to be running here.

1428
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,000
This has been an enjoyable time.

1429
01:12:53,159 --> 01:12:56,359
Speaker 1: Oh Davey, thank you for saying that, because it's been

1430
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,479
amazing for me too. I really enjoyed speaking to you

1431
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,600
and wish you best of luck in the world. And

1432
01:13:02,319 --> 01:13:05,479
let everyone know it's Stockton Goolf dot com if you

1433
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:07,920
want to get lessons with Dave or either of his sons,

1434
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:11,159
and the book Own Your Game by Dave Stockton and

1435
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:14,920
the other two books Unconscious Putting, Unconscious Scoring. Dave, thank

1436
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,600
you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

1437
01:13:18,079 --> 01:13:19,560
Speaker 3: Okay, good Bred, Let's do it again.

1438
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:22,119
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll hold you to that one

1439
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:23,520
Speaker 3: Okay, you got it.