Speaker 1: What is a Fellowsiko's I am dan Fa Valley coming
at you with another episode. We are not with my
certified fantabas post mister Grant Gusto. We're talking with Morton
Steak Jensen of the NBA Podcast. He also covers the
league for Yahoo Sports and Forbes, as well as doing
some work Sports Illustrated. It does a whole lot, does
it super well. He wanted to have me on his podcast,
The NBA Podcast, will talk about the Knicks. He has
graciously allowed me to post it here. We also will
be doing for a YouTube exclusive. We're grading every NBA
City Edition uniform for the twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five season. That'll be a YouTube exclusive if you're an
audio listener. I have included it at the end of
this podcast in case you would like to check it out.
Don't want to deprive you, but I think the visual
element is important. Probably not going up on YouTube until
later this week, just because I need to edit it
a little bit more.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Enjoy that if you're into those things. But let's not
delay this any further. Subscribe the whole nine to us
if you haven't already. But we're to talk a bunch
of Knicks with more from the NBA podcast.
Speaker 2: We have to start with with your local team though,
I mean, you're not a one team guy, but if
there is a team, you follow a little bit more
than others.
Speaker 1: I get accused of being a thunder Homer in our
YouTube comments. I love it. I'm not complaining.
Speaker 2: Oh that's that looked. I mean, Brian, he basically left
the Sixers for the Thunder during the last year that
we were together.
Speaker 1: Yes, you can check on our podcast thunder Buddies. Uh
right shortly, Yeah, yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 2: Seth McFarlane directed it. Yeah, but yes, the Knicks, the Knicks.
We have to talk about the Knicks. Look, there are
some I want to say, popular overarching themes that would
just have to get into even though we're I don't
know where I'm leaning on it quite yet, but we
just so. The Michail Bridges jump shot, we just have
to get into it. It's it's such an art outsie
for him, so obviously he changed his mechanics or insert
recent here that makes sense to him, and the three
point shot has been very unreliable. But he is absolutely
king of the mid range. Like it seems like he
never misses it. Two, I'm not on.
Speaker 1: To the outside the paint right now? Nice, I agree, Nice.
Speaker 2: Yep, Nice, that is that is a phenomenal percentage. So
I just I have no idea what to take away
from this chain shot if anything, like does this matter?
Is this anything? Is what the hell dan make us smarter?
Speaker 1: I am wondering. A part of me just wonders if
it's like, is the way he's shooting better equipped to
make shots from shorter distances because he's been fine from
the corners. It's really when you look at the percentages more,
He's at eighteen percent on above the break threes right
and it's just like, I mean, he's not taking a
ton of corner I mean forty three corner threes. I
get this point in the season actually has a lot
of corner threes. Forty nine percent from the corners right now.
So it's the above the break and so I think
you start to dig into it and you look at
some of the looks and it's like, well, I mean
they're like, oh, their quality looks, and I feel like
they're just going to start to fall, which is honestly
just what I default to at this point. So it
would be something I'm concerned about, but when you get
to him, I'm actually more concerned Now when we get
to the playoffs, I think the concerns could technically change
a little bit because I still and I'm sure we'll
get into this. I've been more of a not an alarmist,
but I don't know if the Knicks have enough secondary
creation outside of Jalen Brunson when you're going up against
playoff defenses. But I've been just personally, and I mean
it's easy to say this when the Knicks are second
third in point scored per one hundred possessions. Right now,
I've been more concerned about Michal Bridges's defense than his
offense at the moment, and so I kind of look
at what's happened with Bridges starts the season kind of awful.
But like you said, the mid range percentages are there.
I'm talking about the corner threes they're going in he's shooting.
He's up to thirty seven point five percent on wide
open threes in general. I just think that number will
probably tick up. In the overall number from above, the
break will tick up. I'm not worried about his offense
in the regular season. I'm more worried about is this
the guy who the Knicks thought they traded for on
the defensive end, And to this point the answer has
been no. And you I think he saw that against
their most recent NETS game, where it's oh, oh, Gananoby's
guarding more at the point of attack and you wanted
mkil Bridges to be that guy. So Ojiananobi can do
everything else, and now Ojiannoby's just doing everything.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they're using a little bit more as
a secondary defender because of the long arms that come
in and contest shots off the weak side. But it's
a good point. I honestly have not taken a lot
of note of him, you know, struggling defensively. I still
think he's in the top tier. Look, I'm also used
to watching Josh Giddy, so like that's that that might
be a pretty poor contrast, But like, I haven't noticed
defense concerns. I have admittedly been a little worried about
the load up on his shots, Like offensively is where
I'm a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Less for sure, and during crunch time too, I think
you can kind of see the impact where it's taking him.
I'm not even just talking about the form on his
jumper in the length of time there, but like the
decision making feels like a touch or three slower, and
the Knicks do not, I think as of right now,
actually they're twenty eighth in offensive rating and crunch time. Again,
we're talking about a small sample size, but they played
a few games in there now and they've deviated from
their process a little bit too much during those stretches.
I think John Brunston is coming around, hasn't had the
best start to the year, but he's clearly banged up.
He's trying to figure out like he has a ton
more spacing and he's just had huge moment. I mean,
look just to go back to that their most recent
win over the Nets, where it's all their starters score
twenty points except for Jalen Brunson, like he's kind of
reading the room and figuring out getting better and better.
I guess each game of what version of him they need.
But yeah, the mckel bridges stuff offensively. I do think
it's impacted them, maybe almost the most kind of when
you're looking at fourth quarter offense hasn't been great overall,
and then their crunch time offense of course, and so like,
it's not even just again the speed at which he's
getting off jumpers and maybe the accuracy on those from
above the break. It's everything about his offensive game in
those moments has felt slower. And that's that's a problem.
Speaker 2: Is it almost feels like to me, and again you
can correct me on this, but it feels like it's
when he's in movement, when he's taking shots off the dribble,
in movement, like when he's running towards a jump shot
or just running towards the ball, gets it and like
goes into a jumper right off the catch instead of
like settling and loading up. It looks much cleaner, almost
like he occasionally shoots it like you did last year,
just by sheer, like, oh yeah, I need to get
up with shots withino point two seconds here. I don't
know if he had something to do with that, but
it's something that I want to track as the season
goes on, because at this point I do think you
need another shot maker, someone who can just go in
and bend defense a little bit more. The Knicks right
now are not winning in the pace game. For example,
they're the worst of the league in pace. They're thirtieth
needs and I I was honestly envisioning this team coming
out and running a lot because of Bridges, Like we
have talked, Yeah, but we talked about breaches and k
kd as some of the best pluck and play players
in the NBA, right, So I was kind of thinking
with them in hand with Karl Anthony Towns as a trailer,
you know, with Jalen in there and O Jenninobio also
being a floor stretcher, I thought the Knicks would run
a lot more than what they have and when they
kind of load up on the half court sets and
Bridges is struggling a little bit. I'm left uninspired. But
what they have been able to achieve offensively so far
this season.
Speaker 1: That it's weird that we're harping so much on the
offense and people are doing it because they have a
top five offense and it doesn't feel necessarily could convincing.
I think it's gotten a little bit more convincing since that,
you know, kind of the first leg, let's say, the
first half of the whatever, in fifteen percent of the
way through the season, so the first seven point five
percent look worse than the last seven point five percent
of the season as they probably there probably is room
for them to run a little bit more. I think,
especially like they will get out and run after they're
forcing a turnover. But they're not a team right now.
I haven't checked in a minute, but yeah, so they're not.
They're still bad there, but they have room to run.
For sure. They're a good defensive, rebounding team. You could
definitely instead of saying, Okay, hey, like we need to
find Jalen Brunson or get him the ball or slow
things down, you could get out and run more there.
I don't I probably would push back and say, I
think with Jalen Brunson and Carla Towns both on the court,
you're not built to do that. The idea was probably
to do it more with maybe some of those bench units.
But yeah, there's definitely room to run, Like, there's definitely
room for them to run more and create some chaos.
And honestly, I think what you bring up is an
interesting point and maybe it might matter a little bit
more in the playoffs, is if you don't have that
guy who can break down defenses, even with McHale shooting, like, yeah,
he's got like sixty eight point eight percent on pull
up twos, so like even factor like filtering out some
of the other stuff from mid range, that's not like
advantage creation necessarily. And so if you lack like who
is the second But I want to ask you who
is the second best advantage creator on the Knicks right now?
Probably and he's not a very good advantage creator, Like
this is someone who is attacking close out you want
to dump into him in the post, but like you
need if you need him to do something other than
capitalize off a mismatch or capitalize in open space, I
would say he's underqualified to be that guy. I think
Talents has been fantastic for the most like honestly, defensively,
I don't know what other people were expecting, to be clear,
and I think they're still trying to figure out how
to use him. But when you look at mcal bridges
or just to set up with the Knicks in general,
way to create chaos and make make it easier for
your offense would be like, well, let's go up against
these defenses that don't have a chance to get set.
And we've seen that in the past with some of
these like brunts in like without bruntson units because that's
their best way of like creating offense, and I think
there's still room for them to do that this year
now as they get healthier, does that make it a
little bit easier, I honestly don't know, Like, are Mitchell
Robinson and Prescius that you are going to be that
integral like getting them running in some of their secondary units.
I'd argue probably not. Like the bigger issue might be, okay,
are these are these guys equipped to run when they're
just playing so many minutes? I know Knicks fans want
to there's always an excuse for why Thibodeau plays these
guys a lot. And the Knicks are shatout some of
these games. They've been pretty banged up. They are missing
two guys in Achua and Mitchell Robinson, who I would
say do factor into I guess like we'll say top eight,
top seven of their rotation. So yes, that matters. But
like when you have to play guys forty or more
minutes to win against the nets, like I don't care
that you're missing pressures at you and Mitchell Robinson in
that one, that's going to be an issue. So I
don't know if that's like been a reason for maybe
why they're not running as much, because even with Jalen
Brunson off the floor, the Knicks rank in the four
percentile of transition frequency, and so like there's room for
that number to come up. I'm just wondering, functionally, is
that okay, Like these guys are just playing so many minutes,
What do you want them to do? Or is it
because if you don't have that decided offensive hierarchy without
Jalen Brunson, which you don't, like, you can gravitate towards
towns or bridges, and like they've wanted to glue towns
to og Anobi's, so maybe that's impacting things. There's definitely
room for them to be more creative on offense. But
I think that creativity that you're looking for specifically, I
don't see it happening in their core unit, where like
you have Jalen Brunson. I just don't. I don't see
that as something that's realistic.
Speaker 2: No, And you hit the nail on the head with
the lack of forcing turnovers, because if you're not forcing those,
you're going to be limited in coming out and running
and getting those easy points. I do think Mitch Robinson
though I think he'll help to some extent so we
know that he's an elite shop locker, or at least
that he is able to challenge shots near the rim.
Right now, you don't really have any one that stands
out who we're playing high level rotation minutes. Towns is
not a shot blocker necessarily neither Og. So I wonder
if you have those trips more or less where the
ball is being swatted away, it's recovered, you run down
the floor and then where Towns kind of stops at
the three point line because he's looking for you know,
the three off a trailing play and that's the smart play.
By the way, you have a Mitchell Robinson who's running
straight to the damn rim, drawing in a defender, and
I think that opens up some driving lanes which we're
not really seeing right now. Well we're seeing it when
Towns also dives. I just don't think he dives that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that could certainly be something that would help,
but I don't know, Like, do you have to get
to a point where your personnel is a little bit
different to unlock that, And like this you're saying, maybe
Mitchell Robinson can do but now you're talking about stre're
playing Mitchell Robinson in Contee Towns together, because those paths
of the baskets that maybe you're talking about are not
like they're not going to be available with Mitchell Robinson
is on the court.
Speaker 2: No, it does feel like there's that this is a
puzzle that's yet to be like fully solved. What what
do you think is missing like for this team to
get up on the Boston level? What is the theme?
Speaker 1: So I think it's it's one of two things that
stand out to me is I think we could focus on, Like, Okay,
it would be nice to date a secondary creator, but
like Campaign's been fine in his role this year. You
have Jame Brunton, you have Mchael Bridges, you have karl
anthy Town's Oh, Jennobi's look pretty confident attacking close outs.
Josh Hart can be reticent to shoot from three, but
he will attack. I think what they really need and
I think one of these is a big problem. You
knew what you were kind of getting into with Towns,
and they're still doing like the Tibotau stuff, like the
when you look at the shot profile they're allowing like
teams aren't shooting a ton at them, but shooting a
ton at the rim. Like relative the frequency they're shots,
thirty one percent of opponent shots are coming at the
room against the Knicks. That's a certainly more than doable number.
They're even limiting like those short mid range opportunities. And
I think even you kind of look at Okay, well
they're only opponent shooting sixty five percent at the rim.
That's twelfth this year. The Knicks are getting burned from
float range, but that could come down. They're really getting
burned from three a lot. And I don't look at
it and say if I tell you that opponents are
shooting thirty eight percent from three against the Knicks, that's
not a number that you look at and say, well,
that's unsustainably high, regardless of how poorly it ranks. So
to me, what stands out is, yeah, they could use
a different center. Look, maybe someone who could play next
towns are a different type of rim protector. Maybe someone
who's gonna give you more of those block shots, which will,
by extension, create transition opportunities. But I look at it saying, well,
like you knew what you were doing when you were
getting towns, and you knew what you were conceding in
the trickle down effect that was going to have on
everybody else. The bigger issue to me has been the
point of attack defense, and so yes, the solve could
be og Ananobi, but then I think that that's going
to really make you. I know you mentioned Michael Bridges's length.
He's not going to be the same level of the
turrent or someone who could rumble with some of the
bigger players agree as OG. And so you're gonna move
Og to defending the point of attack. Yeah, he can
do it, but one, he's already playing a ton of minutes.
You want him doing even more. And then two, now
you're sacrificing even more on the low line. Josh Hart,
you could try it more, but that's not That's not
Josh Hart either, and Jalen Brunton, he will be picked
on if McHale Bridges is not that guy. And when
I look at McHale Bridges, I think the primary difference,
and a lot of it I assigned to him going
to Brooklyn assuming a much larger offensive role, being much
more central there. That Okay, I was expecting a tick
down in defense, but like that, dude is eminently screenable
right now, and they need someone who's going to be
more aggressive, more firm in those situations, and so like
you can throw out different names for that, but it
feels like what they would need is this is a
name I've mentioned. I don't know if they have enough
to get him. He's played really well in Portland, Tamani Kamara.
When you're looking at someone who is like that player
is like, well, he can actually solve someone your If
you want Og at the point of attack, then you
slide to my into like what you want Og doing
behind towns or like from the weak side, anything along
those lines. We're defending bigger players. But to Moni Kamara, honestly,
I call him a four position defender. He might be
close to five at this point. So they need someone
like that, maybe not as good as Tomani Kamara. Maybe
it's just specifically someone who could come in and defend
the point of attack, who is bigger than Douce McBride,
or who is someone that well, if we have to
bounce let's say some minutes from Josh Hart or it's
do you even you might want to frame it. Do
we need someone to supplant some of OG's minutes to
where Okay, maybe the point of attack defense isn't perfect,
or we have someone who gives you the option of
moving him around like Og so o G is playing
fewer minutes, but then you also have minutes where you're
playing them together. Timani Kamara fits that to a t,
which is why I've sort of harped on him now.
I think some people might argue that pressures a Chua
can fill that role. I would when it comes to
point of attack that I've just I've seen it, the
answer is nothing yet attack that cho is not gonna
do that now. Could you move Og to point of
attack when Presu was on the court, Yes, but now
you're making more concessions that you're making offensive concessions as well.
So I look at the Knicks as they need that
player if you put obviously, if you put Tomani Kamara
on this team. That's so stupid of me to say
there are other names that you could latch onto.
Speaker 2: No, but that's that's a really good name though.
Speaker 1: Well the other name I've thought about, I just don't
know if they have the they can figure out the salary.
I know the Knicks are like it would take they
could just do a two for one. It'd be Mitchell
Robinson plus a smaller salary plus. Okay, what is the
pick equity? Is that Washington pick worth it? You include
a swat, But like Isaiah Stewart would make a shit
ton of sense on this team because you can play
him next to Towns. Then you can have og in
Andobe at the point of attack without sacrificing any of
the other response I would say not any of the other,
but many of the other responsibilities. Play Stewart at the five,
play him next to the Towns doesn't matter. So those
are the two names that I've kind of latched onto
because I think what's problematic is you kind of need
this very specific type of player now where it's all
like look at New Orleans. I don't think it's this dramatic,
but like the exact type of big man you want
alongside Ian Williamson. I do criticize the Pelicans for have
never gotten that gotten that guy, like they are like
seven of them, and that might be generous that you could.
That's why everyone was always brook Lopez, Miles Turner, brook Lopez,
Miles Turner, brook Lopez, Oh, Chris brook Lopez Miles Turner,
there are so few and for the Knicks because it's
not just about the point of attack, it's well, we
need someone who's not gonna at least concede too much
of this five out spacing that we've set up or
four and a half out spacing, depending on how you
feel about Josh Hart. And so it's when we need
someone who could plug in and say, well, he's gonna
take some of Josh Hart's minutes, like that's not compromising
our spacing even worse, or is if we're giving him
some of OG's minutes, which is we don't want Og
playing forty plus minutes to night or whatever that he's
going Like Tomai Kamaras shot the ball well from three
basically since going to Portland. He can attack some closeouts too,
He's shown. That's also why I've latched on. That's what
makes it difficult for the Knicks because you don't want to,
I don't want to use the submarine, I think compromise
the right world. You don't want this offense coming down
a tick because if you're gonna hover around the bottom
ten in defense, and by the way they have played,
I think this season only two top ten offenses. I
know the Nets are close to a top ten offense,
but Boston and Cleveland I believe are the only top
ten offenses they've played while we record this, So like
the defense could actually be worse than we think it
is at this point there, if you filter out the
Celtics game, I think they're fifteenth in points a lot
per possession, but one filtering out the Celtics game is
kind of bold when you want to measure yourself against
the Celtics, right and two now we're talking about only
one top ten offense pritt cled in there. So that's
my long winded way of saying, like we could probably
turn this into an overarching discussion or the framing of
this is are the Knicks a serious title contender? I
think they are better team than we've shown. They've been
so up and down, which I think we've seen it
with Minnesota. You make a seismic trade that close to
the start of the season, where you don't have a
lot of time for players to digest it, and you
barely have time to like go through training camp in
a preseason with it. It will matter, But the answer
is still n even when you can't in improvement because
they're still missing. They still feel one player away. And
I would argue, because Mitchell Robinson is not Isaiah Stewart,
because Precious Chua is not a Tamani Kamara, they are
one player away who is not on the team.
Speaker 2: Part of the recent thing I kind of wanted to
them to lean into the offense was partly because I
thought it's sort of half punded on the defense. Anyway.
This isn't this isn't town slandery in any way. I mean,
like you said earlier, he's.
Speaker 1: Been inconsistent at points, but one that is for anyone
a nick Son who might be listening to this who
didn't watch Karl Anthony Towns religiously, that is the Karl
Anthony Towns experience. I would argue. He's been so but
not so much. He's been what they traded for, especially
relative to what they gave up. Like if you didn't
make that trade, do you think the Knicks are any
better on defense right now? Dante DiVincenzo is gonna put
up fight, But like you're not with Mitchell Robinson out,
are you really any better on defense at the moment?
Speaker 2: No? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: No, And so the issue is and we need to
maybe we don't need to stop doing this because they
gave up a lot to get him, Like even if
you say, let's not measure him against how much the
Knicks gave up for him in Bridges like that has
been like you went all in on this player who
I don't think solves if you want to create an
offensive concern. He doesn't solve your biggest offensive concern for
them right now. And he's not elevating the defense the
way that you know the wing stop nickname you gave
the Bridges and Og like it's it's better suited for
Josh Hart or like McBride and og at this point.
So that's and I still think Bridges has been overall
like he's been fine. But when you give up that much,
or when you when you empty your asset clip is
the way I framed it is that you better have
figured out a way to make life easier on your
most important player. The Knicks have done that with their spacing.
But are they any less dependent on Jalen Brunson. The
answer is no, There's the answer is no. Yes, they've
they're offensive raiding with him off the court like his
on off stuff is weird right now. But yeah, you
figure out a way to run your offense without him,
but like not in a way that I personally think
is that's necessarily going to hold up in the playoffs,
and so that slims out your margin for error. In
the context of if I told you they're going to
be the second best offense in the NBA and nineteenth
in defense, just thrown out numbers here, you're probably like,
that's fringe title content, Like you're good enough on offense
and not terrible enough on defense to like that works.
But the way that they've gotten there on offense thus
thus far, it makes you think, well, then you better
be like fifteenth, fourteen, thirteen, twelfth on defense at this point,
I don't know if they have the personnel to do that.
Maybe Mitchell Robinson comes back in the towns Mitchell Robinson,
you know, maybe Robinson just as the best backup center
in the NBA a big deal, or maybe the Robinson
Towns minutes are still super great offensively because one of
the Knicks's most efficient shots the past couple of years
was Mitchell Robinson gets an offensive rebound and finds a
three point shooter, and like, now, you just have towns,
So maybe that there's that dynamic, But I find myself
more concerned with the defense, and McHale Bridges is actually
a part of that as well as the offense. And
I don't I don't mean to dump on him, but
when you invest that much in one player, and I
would argue, I don't think he's been I think you
always kind of knew. Maybe you definitely didn't think he'd
shoot eighteen percent on above the breakthrees through the first
whatever game sure.
Speaker 2: Or not gets to the free throw line, which is
another lost aspect, which I.
Speaker 1: Think is the other thing is like I look at
him and like, we know that the Knicks aren't gonna
do a ton of off ball stuff anyway, That's something
I could have predicted. It's really the defense of the
It's the three point shooting slide off shore, but the
defensive slide off Like that's the thing you look at
and say, oh, okay, Like this is a bigger deal
because if he's not going to be our number two
on offense and then he's also not good, has he
been their second best defender this year?
Speaker 2: That's a good question. I mean, I as I see it, Yes,
but I mean, you watch them more closer than I do,
so if I miss something, I would pute OG number
one for sure.
Speaker 1: Honestly, OG's been their best player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would, I would. I would actually get
agree with you on that. He's he's been far by
far the more consistent. You feel his prisons far more.
I struggled to see who was like Josh Hart has
had moments defensively where I think that's been noteworthy. I
don't know if it's because.
Speaker 1: I'll come out and say their second best defender this
year has been duced Bride, like they're just for what
they need. It's it's been him.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting. I didn't have him all up there
in part because of like the size, like he fights,
he fights over screens. He's a he's a pest. But
I do think there are situations where he's sort of
a mosquito who you can slab away.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, he's not gonna be able to
stuff you mentioned with Bridges against bigger players around the basket.
He can't do that. Bridges is still more versatile. He's
the better player by far and a vacuum, but their
second best defender to me, has been Duce McBride, and
that's probably debatable. And if you say McHale Bridges has
been their second best defender, he has not been good
enough second best defender, particularly when your actual second best
defender in Mitchell Robinson is out. So that is their issue.
And I think you can look at it in one
of two ways where well, this is good because Bridges
should probably get better, But I really do look at
the defensive stuff and it makes me think, well, they
might need a player that they don't have right now,
not sitting in an upgrade from Bridges, but they need to.
Like I don't even know how to frame it problem.
I think I've already said. It's just like you need
the guy who's either going to allow og Annobi to
do some of the stuff you thought mckal bridges was
gonna do for you, or you just need someone who's
bigger than Duce McBride to do more of the mckal
bridges stuff.
Speaker 2: Or you just need Mikal Bridges Phoenix suns Era because
that's what.
Speaker 1: Is there a chance that that's just gone or like
he's not. His role is probably bigger and it's bigger
in New York than it was in the heyday of
those Suns, like when they weren't injured. So could you
just say he's gonna just but like if you think
his offensive workload is still contributing to what he's doing
on defense, like that offensive word, I ain't getting any
smaller just because Mitchel Robinson comes back, Like that's that's
not changing. So I do think the Knicks are a
better team than we I think they're more consistent team
than we've seen. Like, I do think they'll still finish
above five hundred, and I don't view them in the
same league as Cleveland or Boston. But could they be
the third just be the third best team, but like
actual third best team? Not Oh they were forty two
and forty and then the third best team in the East,
which might apparently happen this year. I think they are
better than that. But if you want to get to
that level that you gave up all these assets to get,
like you don't make there is no gap year, There
is no feeling out year when you give up as
much as the Knicks did, never mind towns, but to
get McHale Bridges. Yeah, you decided it's title contention for us.
Now they're not there. They're like, you can argue, well,
if they're the third best team in the East, their
chance of getting like okay, sure, but that's that's not
why you give up what they did for mcale bridges
or do what they did over the offseason. You do
what they did to just be mentioned decidedly in the
same breath as Boston, like with Cleveland's being mentioned in now,
like what OKC is being mentioned in now. You don't
want to have people equivocate on your place in the
pecking order, and there's a lot of room to equivocate
on these Knicks right now.
Speaker 2: But you do agree though that the weapons that they're
disposal are of high quality. It comes down to how
they're utilized in some respects, which leads to me to
this last question before we have to move on. Is
this current iteration of the Nicks roster best suited to
Tips or someone else?
Speaker 1: Don't do this to me?
Speaker 2: Come on, I have to ask.
Speaker 1: I've been labeled as a Thibodeaux hater, and over the
past like season and a half, I think he's been
a lot more flexible than even he's probably been credited for.
On a national level. I know Nicks fans are they've
they credit him a pretty good deal the minute stuff
like that's a real thing. There's always an excuse, but
like the reason you have a like the reason fans
get like why wasn't Huck Porty playing more in that game? Again?
Like you just want someone to take Like that's not
even first of all, I'm more worried about the you
can't call, like, well, that's why Josh Hart is here
so that he can play all these minutes, Like well,
yes and no, like yes, mckel bridge is an iron man,
but every player has their breaking point. Yes, that stuff
you could quibble over whether it's a TIBs thing or
just the available personnel. Right now, I think they've gotten
here on offense to where they are. I don't know
which coach you're putting in here. Maybe if you, like,
if you put Kenny Atkinson on the Knicks, are you
gonna feel better about their offense in a playoff setting
relative to their personnel? Like, I know what he's done
in Cleveland has been fantastic, you might feel a little
better more, but like they have two other options aside
from Donovan Mitchell, just In Darius Garland and what we
know Evan Mobley could be like as self creators and
self starters or drivers of offense for others. I don't
know that you could look at anyone on the Knicks
and say, well, they have that second guy. It might
be Towns with some of the passing that we've seen
from him in Minnesota, but also in New York. It's
there might be a conversation to be had at Tibbs,
but it is also tough to fault him when look,
the offense is elite statistically right now, that has not
been a eating crunch time. If that's what you're gonna
you know, and we'll be talking about maybe three extra wins, okay, fine?
Is Thibodeau the difference between like what's being failed in
crunch time and what.
Speaker 2: Like no, no, no, there's there isn't one guy to
put the blame on here what's right and that I
agree with.
Speaker 1: So it's just who are you installing that's gonna make
this personnel defend better? That's what it would come down
to to me.
Speaker 2: And I I mean, I think it's because it's the
overwhelming feeling of looking at this roster and feeling like
you're not getting the most out of it like on
the surface, we're talking about Jalen Brunson, We're talking about
Karl Anthony town So, we're talking about Mikail Bridge, we're
talking about Ojen Nobi. That foursome is on paper, one
of the strongest in the NBA. That is a ridiculously
talented for some I understand what you're saying though, that
only one of them is a high, high level creator
and in today's league that's not enough. Now, we did see,
you know, in the years past here riches take on
more of a role. We've seen towns take on more
of a role. So I think the overall assumption, at
least from non Knicks fans who've now watched everything, is
why can't you somehow try to create that secondary guy
in the aggregate, like between riches and towns, Like, is
there any way you could sort of finacle that and
and make them into a cohesive second tier star.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could. I just don't know, like what
is the like at this point though, what would be
the grounds to make right ball? It's you would look
at okay and say it would be ballsy to just say, oh,
New York is what did I say? They were they're
they're twenty eighth in offensive ratings during crunch time and
they're actually thirtieth now, So I'm be too generous. It's
like we're talking and they've been in crunch time seven
times this year and they're two and five. If that's like,
you have to give it the rest of this season.
And I'm not prepared to sit here and say that
the Knicks can't be better in crunch time because look,
I think if you go back and watch a lot
I haven't seen every crunch time possession, but if you
go back and watch some of them, a lot of
it's on Jalen Brunson, and like you're not putting in
like what is Tibbs do? Like Jalen bruns are not
passing or getting off the ball quickly enough. That's not
like that's not a Tibbs thing necessarily. So I would say, look,
if you're betting against is Tibbs, the answer for furtherest
roster is at the field. Statistically, the answer should always
be the field, because the Knicks are being measured against
did they win the title or not? Or did they
make the Eastern Conference finals or not? But I am
prepared to give it more of this season if we
don't think that they are, and I don't think either
of us think they're being fully optimized on offense. I'm
still prepared, given how well Towns is played, given how
well OG's played and been empowered on the offensive end.
Even Josh Hart like, I'm still prepared to give is
it Tims the benefit of the doubt. I'm not prepared.
I'll frame it this way. I'm not prepared to say
Thibodau is not the answer for New York. I would
argue as of right now their situation. If you don't,
If you feel fantastic about this team, good for you.
I'm not gonna talk you out right. But if you
feel uneasy about this team, I'm gonna feel uneasy, more
so because of the personnel and the injuries, of course,
but the personnel than I am, because Tom Tibdeau is
the one that's captaining the.
Speaker 2: Ship, right And I and I wasn't insinuating that he Wasn't.
Speaker 1: You weren't you were outright saying it, You're a tiptaker.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying that he has a tendency to
wear out his welcome. I do agree with you, though,
that over the past couple of years, we have seen
a Tips lean into you know, the three point shots
and more offensive freedom, and that was its right. I mean,
that was the sticking point for years and years and years.
So I'm not necessarily out on Tom Tippoteau by any stretch.
I just see a Knicks team very frequently that leaves
stuff on the floor where you're like, what the hell
is actually going on there? And and look to be
to be fair, it's not as if they're necessarily a
bad team. Look that that bulls loss for example, where
is Josh Hart who filed Kobe White unnecessarily that you
know that that should have been a Knicks win. Ultimately,
that was just a brain fard decision by Joss Hart
to come over the top there. So if we turned
that and it's what then then what are the eight
and five instead? That looks better?
Speaker 1: It looks better. So we both know crunch time, the
results they can be inherently random. It's a lot of
the times like three point defense in the NBA, so
like that stuff could normalize, it could not. But that
doesn't mean that they're like there are some teams that
were good in the clutch last year Demarta Rosen is
contending for Clutch Player of the Year and winning it
in Chicago. What did that do for the Bulls?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, the first round pick on his way out apparently.
Speaker 2: And it's a fair point, I think for for us
who follow along, we heard all the noise. We for me,
I also assist in creating the noise that because when
I saw this roster, I was like, this could be
the second best team in the East. I was kind
of shocked to see Mikael come back with that shot.
I've been surprised to see him not even get to
the refrow line. I've seen now for thirteen games some
elements where I'm beginning to doubt whether this team is
going to find itself to where we talked about them.
It could just be a rough start to the season.
I am very much down to see where we look
or how they look come twenty twenty five, for example.
But if they're still just hanging around five hundred at
that point in time, I think you'd need to answer
some overarching tough questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and look, I can't even argue that
some of that in my fall on machal Bridges too
just like he's more of his possessions with the Knicks
have come like his cuts than they did in Brooklyn
last year, which might speak to the pecking order of
it all, but yeah, I don't even I would have
to compare it. I wonder what he was at during
his final year in Phoenix, of like, what percentage of
his plays were we're coming off cuts was probably something
that I should look at. But they're Look they are
They were always going to be one of the most
polarizing teams, right they have not done anything to ask Look, yeah, look,
a higher percentage of McHale's bridges offensive possessions this year
are coming as cuts in New York than they did
during that final year in Phoenix. Okay, and even look
twenty twenty one twenty two was that there made it
to the finals that year? Was that that season or
was that twenty one?
Speaker 2: I feel I want to say twenty one in twenty
two were the Warrior.
Speaker 1: It's even higher than that. And then you look at
twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, like, okay, that's the year
that it was higher. But he was, like we've talked
about someone who's leveled up from Oh, we think he
could just move off the ball, like, oh, this guy
can do some extra stuff. So I they're tough. They're
a tough study, and it's a I think this is
all stuff that you could have looked at, though, with
everything that we've talked about, you could have looked at
the makeup with the roster and said, injuries and all.
I could see this being an issue. The mcale Bridges
of it all, even the Jail bruns In of it
all a little bit some of the crunch time owners
for sure, that's the stuff that was a little bit unpredictable.
And so we're talking about what everyone assumed was going
to be their two most consistent and best offensive players,
and so you kind of almost have to trust that
maybe Karl Anton Towns is good enough that Michail Bridges
is no no longer number two there. But I get
a lot of like I've already seen just flashes from
Jalen Brunson getting better, and so I think we get
default to the Nicks being in better shape. But I
would just reiterate that I still think they're one player away.
Speaker 2: And it's also early. Let's we have to at some point.
Speaker 1: It's not though it's early until it's not we're like,
what is fifteen percent of the season in the books
or something that's not that's not nothing.
Speaker 2: I mean there's eighty five percent left, right, But we.
Speaker 1: Know a lot of the times, like twenty games into
the season twenty one, twenty two, twenty five, that's when
a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 2: That gives you twelve twelve games stand twelve games.
Speaker 1: Which gives a color that says like half of half
the season that's telltale is in the book. So half
of your season that you get to the point of
before we know their identity and who they are. So
they're fifty percent of the way through, and you and
I have talked in circles for thirty five minutes about them.
Speaker 2: No, it is, it's it's fair. I just wanted to
get your take on it, and it did not disappoint.
Speaker 1: We're here to talk about something very important, critical when
we talk about improving NBA coverage. This is the stuff
we're talking, the heartening stuff that no one wants to do.
We're gonna grade the NBA City Edition uniforms for the
twenty twenty four twenty five season more. Are you ready, Yes, sir,
let's throw these bad boys up on screen. Here we go.
But as a reminder for anyone, we're gonna grade them
on an A, B, C, D F scale. There's no E.
I don't know. I want to know why. That's the thing.
Clearly they're not anti vowels. C is average. I don't
want to see people in the comments if your A
team get to see that all that, why did you?
Why is it an A plus A C is average
anything C plus B minus B plus A A plus
A minus whatever. Those are all good grades. If you
get a D even a C minus, it's like, all right,
they were close. If you get a D, D plus F,
that's where you come to talk to us. I also
want to say, I know there's or there claims to
be a lot of history of trying to honor the
city behind these great We are not trying to insult
what they're trying to represent by any means. I'm not
trying to denigrate or degrade.
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I am Then, is what you're saying. Yes, we are
not trying to denigrate or degrade the history of any
franchise or the city in which they play or might
may have formally played. We're just looking purely at esthetics.
This is clearly super scientific and did I is there
anything else we need to couch this with more?
Speaker 2: No, But I'm just too busy thinking about like the
great scale, because yours actually makes a lot more sense
than ours. Like us, like over here, we have from
minus three to twelve, and it's you wouldn't think it
goes like you think it goes minus three, minus two,
minus one. No, No, it jumps from minus three to
double zero, then to zero two, then to four, seven, ten,
and twelve. That's how our grade system works over here,
So yours, well, ones, makes more sense.
Speaker 1: Maybe your, But that might be why you guys are smarter,
because like you have to think about how you think
about that what people like just did, because it's that
that's not something can you intuitively just say off the cuff,
like oh, double zero or do you have to think
about it a little bit more? Because I think no.
Speaker 2: I mean so, so like the average is seven, seven
is like the average, So there that's what we go for.
That's our c and then twelve is like the exceptional, right,
and then there's the ten, which is between average and exceptional,
like the very good sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this right now, and I'm if we
get If there's a thousand likes on this video, Morret
and I will grade in podcast form every NBA team
season using the Danish grading scale. So if you want
to see that, yes, share the hell out of this episode.
Speaker 2: Love it?
Speaker 1: Okay, First up, more, we're going alphabetically the Atlanta Hawks.
I think the best way to do this just any
quick thoughts about what stands out, likes or dislikes, and
we can go from there.
Speaker 2: I actually think it's pretty clean. I like it clean, Tracy.
The one thing I don't like is the number right
below the Nike logo. I think that's a little bit.
Speaker 1: I love it. Call the Nike logo. I love it.
What what it is?
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a logo, like the brand logo whatever.
Like sometimes Jordan's.
Speaker 1: Nike and you're like, you're pronouncing it as it's spelled.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: It's like that's because we actually say Nike over here.
Speaker 1: Oh do you that's awesome?
Speaker 2: I know, yes, No, and it's it's wrong. It's like
we always say Nike shoes instead of Nike shoes.
Speaker 1: If there's ads playing, I guess does Nike ever say
their name in the ads, but like they never really.
I wonder if they did, would they play Because like
Blink one eighty two, anyone who watch in this podcast
knows I love them. There are corners of the world
where they're known as Blink one eight two. So like
I'm wondering to be the same type of thing where
it's or a Blink one and eighty two, Like people
will say, right, stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's funny. It's not just Nike. So for example,
over in your neck of the woods, you say Adidas,
it's Edidas.
Speaker 1: That's that feels more like maybe like an accent thing though,
like that's a no, no.
Speaker 2: No, that it comes from a name Eddie desla Oh.
Speaker 1: I prefer so it's how do you pronounce it?
Speaker 2: A Edid? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think I prefer that. It makes me feel pretentious
and superior to everybody else.
Speaker 2: Nobody. So I actually like this jersey. Again, I don't
like the Nike loco right over the jersey number. I
think that gets a little bit cluttered. It feels like
you're you're kind of fluttering the logo, the number and
then the hawks. Right, it's all a little bit too
much together. But otherwise I like the white, I like
the baby blue. I'm gonna give this like a B minus.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go a little, I'm gonna go be I
like everything you said. The number. It's like, well, we
have all that blank space beneath, like that first strip
of blue, so why could the number just go there?
We could tilt it too, That'd be really fun, like
a crooked numbers there. And then also I do feel
like the Hawks, like actual name, it would pop more
if it was just a different color, Like let's make
this thing like the navy on the light you would
or the black, like it's not clashing. But it's also like,
let's make the Hawks pop more.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you gave B minus, I gave a bee
solid Jersey Hawks especially, we're gonna be disappointed in maybe
a few seconds, even as we move on to Boston
Celtics more people. I don't know if you've seen it,
the social media is not happy with this Boston Celtics jersey.
And maybe I'm not trying to influence you, but maybe
I'm just jaded by their previous iterations. I kind of
saw the lime green with the dark green, and you
have the lime green coming like down the rib strip,
and I was just.
Speaker 2: Like, that's not bad, Like is it fluorescent? Like if
we go to the club, does this not light up?
I need to know if I can wear that back
to two thousand and two in like a Slovenian discothech.
That's what I need to know.
Speaker 1: I think you could, but you know what prevents you.
This is why I'm going to downgrade them a little bit.
There needs to be more of it, Like the number
needs to be bigger. You have all that empty space
like that, yeah right there, So like the number could
have just been let's make it comically large, maybe for
the people who use reading glasses, like so they don't
have to use a magnifying glass to see it. Then
you could wear it to the disco. Tech.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It just it feels like that's a jersey some
random Italian bro with where without knowing who the player is,
who the team is. He's actually a football fan. He
doesn't really know basketball. He bought it on a whim.
He goes into the club, everything gets stark, the lights
turned on, and the only thing you see from him
is whitened seas and Celtics zero. I kind of like
the idea of that, So I'm gonna give that a
B plus.
Speaker 1: They're gonna get a C minus from me because I
don't think this is even close to the I was
surprised how many people dislike this, and this is coming
from someone who I know the fluorescent coloring is loud.
I love loudness and boldness, even if it looks bad.
I appreciate people taking a chance. I will say this
is anecdotally speaking, it feels like Boston, Chicago and the
Knicks need to do a better job of being creative
with their alternate jersey designs. These are not franchises that
ever feel like you take a real chance.
Speaker 2: I think for me it's I love black jerseys. I
don't know what it is, always have for whatever reason.
So that's why scores extra points with me. Had this
been white, and had there been like some sort of
black margin around the Celtics, I probably would have grated
it lower.
Speaker 1: So you went with a B or B plus.
Speaker 2: I think I said P plus.
Speaker 1: I'm own C minus here they're getting penalized for just
continuing not to be loud. This one. It's a little
loud Brooklyn nets More.
Speaker 2: What do you think it's wacky. It's wacky.
Speaker 1: I love the lettering. Is that supposed to be like
the subway signs? A little bit like I believe somebody
is that? Or kind of like a contemporary ransom note? Right?
Speaker 2: Might be both? Those are not usually exclusive, sir, all right,
it's creative. I don't I don't hate it, and it's
kind of wacky, it's fun. I do think the thirty three,
like the Jersey number, is a little bit small. Yeah,
you know what, I'm gonna give the solidpie.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go a minus.
Speaker 2: I like, oh, that's high.
Speaker 1: We're talking about a franchise that your base colors are black, white,
and maybe silver if you want to be generous, and like,
they still be a way to be creative with those colors.
And I like the color accents on the lettering. I
actually would have liked it more if they put it
on the numbers too. And I'm with you that if
the numbers were bigger, that would be cooler as well.
So I think this came pretty close, especially again with
the base colors they were trying to work with. I
think this came close to like pretty much hitting all right,
our next team up alphabetically the Charlotte Hornets.
Speaker 2: How are you feeling the clause there to make me
I'm feeling uninspired, Dan, That's probably the best way to
phrase it. I nothing gets me going about that. It's
just it's boring. It feels like it's something we've seen
before a million times.
Speaker 1: It's I just I'm oh, man, it's like they repurposed.
Obviously not last year's was the had the buzz City
on it. But it feels like they just repurposed and
changed a little bit like their previous alternates and that
I always love the teal. It's like it's gonna be
tough to I can't hate this. I actually like the design,
but it's could have been a little bit like differentiated
a little bit more from jerseys of them that we've
seen in the past. And I personally don't love Again.
I know it's you're not working with a ton of colors,
but I don't love sort of the gold streaks like
to where it's and it almost doesn't feel gold. It's
like an obnoxious brown almost, is what it looks like.
Speaker 2: I think this is a d for me because it
just feels stickish that they try to release one of these.
Speaker 1: I just I'm a sucker for the teo and I
kind of like how it's like a gradient a little bit.
So I'm gonna go see that's fair. That moves us
onto I'm gonna sign them to you, like I'm gonna
sign ownership to you. They are your Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 2: They are certainly not I will not receive slander on
this podcast. I quit the Bulls, by the way, just
just I never smoke, but I imagine that's how it
felt like. That is the old Chicago, like theater nineteen
twenty style. They had someone similar in twenty twenty just
in I don't I don't want to say black. It
was sort of a dark gray or something like that.
And I love that font. I think the nineteen twenty
Chicago era, it's always kind of intriguing to me. So
I'm actually surprisingly down with this one. I'm gonna go be.
Speaker 1: What is the matter with you?
Speaker 2: Oh a lot of things.
Speaker 1: There is so much wrong here, So I don't I
don't mind the font and just sort of like you
have the like the echo off center when you're looking
at the numbers specifically and we're using the number zero
as the baseline, and then just again the outline on
the Bulls. The number we could say this about a
lot of teams could be bigger. I hate there's too
much white here. If you wanted to go with this color, like,
why couldn't they do some type of a gradient with
the black and gold. I maybe appreciate what they're trying
to do with the homage. And I like the I
call it the like the oblique rib area. I like
having that streak of like gold with their their stars
on there. It's clean, it's clean without being too plain.
And they tried something different, which you know, I gotta go.
I'm gonna I'm gonna wait this here because they did
try something different, and I expect the worst from the Bulls.
I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with a C
minus also fair. This is all subjective.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna hate on you like and of course
I know that whenever I say something you can just
attack me as much as you want from my subjective opinion.
Speaker 1: Dan, that's fine, and one of us is wrong, and
it's me. I'm right, you're wrong.
Speaker 2: I can definitely tell you've just come off an election circle.
Absolutely Cleveland.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: And more the land so I here's the thing, right
you think get about the movie. No, not really, it's
it's I don't really understand it.
Speaker 1: As like I get the whole ring of reference thing
to an extent, but it's not something that speaks to
me at all.
Speaker 2: I just think it sounds awkward. But I'll say this,
the fact that it's sort of gradient. It is supposed
to be gradient, right it gets darker. Yeah, I like that.
I like the jerseys that dare to go gradient. I'm
not really sure what the hell it is that put
on the sides there that feels like it kind of
spoils clean. Look, it isn't I know.
Speaker 1: We said we weren't gonna get too deep in the
history of everything, but it is like it's from the
historic Playhouse Square of downtown Cleveland, and so there's like
emblems of that, Like there's nod to the Cleveland Museum
of Art. So there's just like there's a bunch of
different stuff. So it's chaotic a little bit. But we
talk about we want teams to differentiate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, am I supposed to understand Cleveland landmarks? Because in
the words of joking Noah Doude, do you ever go
to Cleveland on vacation.
Speaker 1: Look, we're honestly, you're not supposed to understand that we
set we're grading just off the esthetics of it.
Speaker 2: All, right, turn off, that's actually fair, that's actually fair.
I think it's a little dull. I'm gonna give it
a C.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably a B minus for me. I
like the font they used for the land. Again, the
numbers should be like their number small even by the
standards that we've seen. I don't love like, why couldn't
could we have differentiated the color that the land is
written a little bit to make it pop, Like if
that even if that was in a black more, wouldn't
that a pop more more?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, I love what they have going down the rib
oblique area. And you pointed out I didn't even notice
it necessarily right away, but there is that slight gradient
in the light blue. I'm like, huh, I wish I
could see the land more because I love that font. Like,
I love what that's saying.
Speaker 2: So they said there's a problem with the fond. Here's
so I I you don't know this, but I actually
am a multimedia designer. So I used to like design
stuff like this. If you look at the A, right,
you see it's all white in the circle. Okay, we're like, yeah,
whereas with the D it's transparent. Yeah. That messes with
my eye. That is something I was taught years and
years ago. Never never to that. Like, so the professional
eye of me right now is insulted, absolutely insulted.
Speaker 1: So you would rather it be like, because these letters
are connected, you'd rather than be separate and then like
keep the like the the white in the background of it,
or get rid of the white altogether.
Speaker 2: From that, I just want to get the white from
the A, like in the middle of the A. I
just want that to be blue. That's it. It's like,
are you.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they did that because it would have
been too hard to read. If it wasn't, that might
have been a thing. Yeah, but that's that doesn't speak
to the advantage though. That's not dumb, Like I'm gonna
go see though, because I like I like a lot
of the chaos. I like the chaotic elements looking of
it on the side next level, that was mad.
Speaker 2: Right, So unless they've decided to also basically air the
game in black and white, which could actually be dope,
like maybe just an NBA game in black and white.
That would work. Then I'm down with this because then
I have no idea what color it really is. If
this is the real jersey, then we're gonna watch on
a colored television. I have no idea what the hell
they were trying to do.
Speaker 1: Do you want to read their portrayal of it? The
Mavericks have unveiled their City Edition uniform, celebrating American music
culture and spirit of Dallas, from the creation of the
style in the early twentieth century to the introduction of
the electric guitar to the evolution of rock and roll showmanship.
Dallas slash Fortworth legends have shaped the arc of the
Blues all the way to the present day, and the
City Edition uniform honors their deep history.
Speaker 2: I wish there were more blues because that is this
isn't F minus right, Yeah, it's it's horrible, absolutely ghastly.
Yep F minus what I yeah, I minus three? If
minus three?
Speaker 1: If you forced me to pick one thing, I like
we do have. You can't really see it in the
portrayal photo, but like having the stuff going down the
ribs very interesting. And then there is something around the
like the jersey tag that's at the bottom. That's kind
of interesting, But why is there so much space? And
I do I guess I kind of like the like
the font on the M and the S for the MAVs.
But this is just I'll get I'll go F rather
than F minus because.
Speaker 2: It was this is when we wake up Friday morning
knowing we have a science project that we haven't even
started on, and this is where we end up handing it.
Speaker 1: The Denver Nuggets. I've seen mixed reviews on this one.
How are you feeling about the Denver Nuggets?
Speaker 2: Frisky some color? Yeah, I'm down with it. I like it.
Speaker 1: I fuck with this. I'm not gonna lie. It's an
A plus for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love the trim the numbers. I mean, I guess
some people might be tired of the five two hundred
and eighty, but like, that's cool. What it not? So
I even like if I had a complaint, it's like, okay,
so fifty two eighty is so huge, But again, the
Jersey number is very small. But I love the color
schemes going down that that is that's freaking awesome in
the way that they have, like the differentiation in the
background where it's like some of it is transparent, but
the rest has the backdrop of the color. But I
also do like if you look at the number, and
we're looking at number four here, I like the thought
of the number. I feel like it's sneaky, sleek.
Speaker 2: I wonder has there ever been a rep who's mistaken
like the numbers and called a foul a different way?
Because there's just two number numbers.
Speaker 1: I guess you only see it in a flash, and
you only see the back half or the front half.
It's like, oh, number fifty two or number eighty. It's possible. Yeah,
but they're probably mostly looking at the back of the jerseys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume. So, No, you're right this. I am
not sure how I'm gonna go A plus, but I'm
gonna go A.
Speaker 1: Yes there, I think they are clear A. I've seen
mixed reviews, though. Does that surprise you that this wasn't hey?
Speaker 2: It does, yes, but people are weird.
Speaker 1: Here we go the Detroit Pistons more right? Yeah with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, I like that.
Speaker 2: I actually like that the beige, the stark contrast of
the black and red. This is good, man. Yeah, this
is good B plus at least, if not an A.
Speaker 1: I like that they I just like that an NBA
team use the color bone and like said it, like
that's what we're calling. I like the font on pistons. Again,
are they not allowed to take up more space on
the front of the jersey?
Speaker 2: It seems like there's a pattern here now that where
we can safely assume there has to be some some guidelines.
Speaker 1: Yes, I like I love the font on pistons. I
love the font for the jersey number. It'd be cool
if they like I appreciate more chaos. So I'd like
to see some more bigger things. But I think would
you go B.
Speaker 2: No? I I think B plus is the might as
like at the at the least maybe even A. Now
here's one thing that would ruin it for me. So
the Pistons have in the past had a tendency to
put the number above their their surname on the on
the back of the jersey, which I hate. I all
always hate that. So, like, are we do we have
a picture of the back of the jersey. Do we
know if the surname is above the number?
Speaker 1: We could, but you know what, people have to judge it.
We're like, you're probably I look more in front of
jerseys for designs than back, because very rarely is there
gonna be a big difference, and sometimes it's even more
vanilla than it would be on the front.
Speaker 2: I endorizations wins championships to that type of guy, huh.
Speaker 1: Do you I didn't. I'm just noticing this because it's
so small they have and I tried not to read
up on these because that's why I want it to
come in fresh. Some people might say unprepared. I call
it fresh. By the jock tag, it says the back
to back at the bottom like in the like at
the very bottom of the funt. I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That bumped it up to That bumped it up to
a B plus for me. I can't tell. You said
it's red. It looks like it might be. Orange is
the secondary color. So the fact that I can't tell
the difference orange he said red, It looks orange to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah it no, okay, it looks red to me. It
doesn't say it's orange.
Speaker 1: Let's see. I mean, because I do have the page
pulled up where I got these photos from. It is more.
Oh it's orange.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The orange stripe down the side of the uniform
is embossed with a repeating eighty nine to ninety monochromatic
number design. Damn all right, all right, well you know what,
that doesn't make any significant change for me because it's
it's dope as the way it looks, so.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: P plus from me, that was a good job. Is again?
Can we just get someone needs to be bigger on
the front of these jerseys, except not this team. Jesus Christmas.
How you feeling about Golden State? It?
Speaker 2: Am I wrong for saying it looks like one of
the old jerseys that the Nuggets played around with years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Golden State has giving me those vibes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, too much just going on like it. I
don't know what it is. It's just too many colors
I think doesn't mesh really well.
Speaker 1: They did, at least they didn't. You remember those atrocious
reflective orange jerseys that they had like two or three
decades ago at this point. Yeah, I like, I will say,
I don't mind the color scheme, like with the name,
but like also you're looking at the trim or the
by the ribs where they kind of like it looks
like they have both the Navy and the orange worked
into there. That's not easy to do. And I like
the what is that a bridge by the jock tag?
So I don't hate these, but like it felt it
feels like you could have been and we do have
to give them a nod. They did make the jersey
and the like Golden State, Like, that's taking up a
good amount of the front. So what's been one of
our biggest qualms to date? That is too small? I'm
still going c minus here.
Speaker 2: It just yeah, it doesn't do anything for me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna god, wow, nice big differentiator on that. Okay,
Houston rockets Age Town, Baby, I.
Speaker 2: Like it, like it leans into how people talk and.
Speaker 1: To me also point out we wanted this is proof
that you can go bigger on the front.
Speaker 2: Right Look at that. Yeah, here's the thing. There's no
doubt who the player is going to be because you
can actually see the number. You can also see the
player because they're going to be wearing the jersey. But
you catch my drift here and the fact that they
say Age Town, which is a little rock and roll.
I love that. Yeah, and the trimming that is that
black and red on the side there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you feel about it like being white? Like do
you think that there should have been more color on
the like because it's fine.
Speaker 2: It's fine. The he town makes up for it because it's.
Speaker 1: You know, glaring red that by that font choice incredible
to like the way and that I love that the
fifteen is so big. I do wish, man, if they
could have just like so, if they could have thickened.
I know what they're trying to do where it's like
creating that jersey outline on the front, but if they
could have just moved it, like made it thicker to
like where more of the black and the red is
on the sides, this might have been the A plus jersey.
I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go be.
I'm gonna go A minus here.
Speaker 2: I like it. I was gonna go B plus who
We're very close the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see your thoughts on these. As
I was putting it in before we recorded today, I
was like, I really want to know what more thinks
about these.
Speaker 2: Have we not seen some iteration of these before?
Speaker 1: No, we've had We've seen something very similar. That's why
I wanted to.
Speaker 2: Know what Yeah, right, I mean, I I still I
think they got something. I don't think it's an ugly jersey.
I like that they're bold, They're they're daring. Again the
small number, but like this, this feels very play in
a way that I can appreciate. Sports are, after all, entertainment,
and they're leaning into the same entertainment aspect of it.
I don't hate it. It's a solid beef for you.
Speaker 1: I'm going B plus and this. I love the way
that the like the paint splatter yellow on top of
the black on the trim is great. And I love
that they have in and sort of that like I
guess you'd call it like a teal blue with the
yellow outline on it. The number could be bigger, as
you said, Yeah, it also could have an outline itself.
It's weird to see it so plain juxtaposed like to
the indie, but I like the font of it and
it makes up for it. I just I wish it
was bigger. And as you said, the word is like played.
We've seen some variation of this before, so that's what
prevents me from going any higher.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: The La Clippers. They have a gradient they have.
Speaker 2: That doesn't save them. God that snooze will I'm sorry.
Clips Okay, great with a basketball as the doti and
I did you get?
Speaker 1: And maybe this is when I see this clips thing,
because now we've seen it. I just I mean, maybe
it makes sense because Steve Bomber owns them or is
the like is the team owner. I'm just reminded like
Microsoft Windows nineteen ninety five with the paper clip guy,
I don't like I the fond I don't. I don't
hate that aspect of it, but that's what I'm immediately
drawn towards. I don't understand, though, I guess following their
rebrand you can still I don't like they've tried to
mess together. You've seen their court where it has like
the palm trees with the clips on it. There's like
their branding just seems so inconsistent right now, I guess
is where I'm at. And the gradient, the differentiation and
the color. I love the blue, but like, okay, do
we have to go navy here? I think there were
they nodding to this is the Cincinnati Royals team, right
if I'm not mistaken, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: And also like if you look at it really quickly,
you might tend to read chips instead of clips and
you don't want to do that, like you want to
make sure you understand what it says quickly and this point,
and I am apologizing.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said this was the Cincinnati
Royals team that is pas, that's the King's right. Yeah,
I don't know why I got mixed up. This would
be the San Diego team. I don't.
Speaker 2: Oh no, look it's fine. It's jersey. You you're you're like,
it's jerseys, You're fine.
Speaker 1: I so all respect to I'm Gonnat the designer La
based artist Jonas. Would I love the base of the jersey.
It feels like there's way more that could just be
like done to improve the I although, what else could
you have done with the clips? If they were said, like, hey,
we're gonna use this clips thing, like you need to
incorporate that, like maybe a bigger number with like kind
of a different color or literally anything else would have
been fun, like taking inspiration from your last name, would
just at a woodpanel on that entire thing.
Speaker 2: That would have been more fun, because that this one
is just uninspiring. So would you go with C minus?
Speaker 1: I think I THINKNA minus. I'm with you because it's
not it's it's clean to look at, so it's not
DF territory, right, the Los Angeles Lakers, mister Mort. I
don't know why I'm calling you, mister Mort. I've never
called you that before in my life.
Speaker 2: No, at least not in a professional setting. Lake Show, okay,
you know, I actually I actually hate the fact that
I used Lake Lake Show.
Speaker 1: Their saving grace. Do you remember last year's that had
the triangle like the way that they had their like
Los Angeles Lakers was spelled it.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was awful. This is better than that.
Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you. I don't remember jerseys from
last year. I just don't. It's not something that I
have space in my brain to put in and keep
and retaying.
Speaker 1: You when you go, while we're done, here go, you'll
remember them because they were that.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, So again Lake Show just feels like
some sort of pandering. I don't know. It's just it's
I love the gradient though, from black to purple. It
seems like the great yeah, but but it stopped so early, right,
It's it's like, okay, we decide to go from black
to purple at like thirty three percent of the jersey
and then the rest is just Norman Norman normal purple,
whereas the gradient could have faded in more.
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, I the gradient could be doing more.
I don't understand why everything is so small again, Like
that's been one of my complaints. I also don't like,
couldn't they have done more by the job. We saw
some of these other teams like put a bunch more
by the jock deg and they're like, no, we're gonna
go super preh.
Speaker 2: And then you also have the the purple in the numbers,
which just seems a little uninspiring when you have the
all yellow Lake show.
Speaker 1: You know, I wonder if if they had moved it
down and you could have made the number what am I?
I'm gonna say this for almost everything, they could have
made the number bigger if you had moved it down.
I wonder if that would have been because what they're
trying to do with the numbers, it seems could that
have extended the black gradient because it seems like they
very clearly wanted it to be all purple with the
yellow outline by that point, So if you move that down,
maybe that would allow you to extend the gradient.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is d.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a I think. I'm still just happy they
didn't repeat from I'm Gonna go deplus and feeling optimistic
about this one, the Memphis Grizzlies. I look off the cuff.
Why do I feel like we're about to watch like
a nineteen seventies adult film by looking at the front
of this jersey and.
Speaker 2: Fairness that would have been prioritized to watching last year's
Memphis Grizzlies.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I like the fond that Le's very
clearly took a chance, and so I'm getting a clear
like vibe from it. Obviously, I don't hate the red
with the white and the baby blue. I just I
don't know. I do not know how to feel about
this one. I definitely would have had the trim probably
be more baby blue than the white.
Speaker 2: See is that baby blue? Because I looked that and
I seek gray. So it's interesting saying is that it
should be Oh okay, good, I thought I was. My
eyes were messed up again. Okay, no, this is this
is this is like they took a chance. I'll give
them some points for that. I'm not with it. I'm
probably gonna give that a C minus.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to see what their inspiration was. This is
like a nod to the ABA Day. Hey, nineteen seventy four,
nineteen seventy five sounds Jersey. So at least my my
adult film era vibes was correct.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just I think there needs to be aside
from bigger numbers in Memphis, I think that there just
needs to be more. If they call it the Beal
Street Blue in Here Incorporated, I'd probably like it a
little bit more. It would have gotten an A plus
for my For me if it just said job did
or j John Doest Memphis, Oh, that would be fun.
I'll go C minus as well. I think you have
the right vibe here. I don't even I hate this one.
Miami drop the Heat culture bullshit? Yeah, ready, yep, the
number could be bigger, the the font is uninventive here.
I give me a reason not to give this an F.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't. I mean, the Heat themselves will probably
try to give you several reasons, chief among them being, well,
we're the only basketball team in the history of sports
to have a culture, which I'm like you, I'm very
sick of just the arrogance that comes off of he
Heat culture and the funny thing is I just this
is an aside. I don't even think their fans are
like way into it like some are, but like a
lot of fans are heat culture.
Speaker 1: You're right, I've never thought of that.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of fans were just like, all right, fine,
I guess like it's just like yeah, right exactly, so
like it might be time to just don't just don't.
Speaker 1: Uh this is gonna be Could it be any worse?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, if the if the number was also black, all right,
so they'll get just this straight f rather than right exactly. Yes,
you saved them more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I'm very proud.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling about these Bucks jerseys?
Speaker 2: Oh all right, all right? That slaps?
Speaker 1: I like that, like gold to use Giannis attend to
Coupo's number as the ad for interest in case that
might have to strange season whatever.
Speaker 2: Like there's a clean break in the middle of the jersey.
That's not something we see a lot of. That's bold,
that's a little dangerous. I like that. Yeah, I'll give
this a B plus.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, all right. I like everything you said, and
I like the font. It looks like I can't tell
if that's the white or the cream. Either way, it
still looks good. But they have, like I don't know,
maybe I'm just nostalgic for like the green and the
purple Bucks era, and I'd like to see them incorporate
more of that. So this is a this is a
D for me.
Speaker 2: But so that's the supposed to be the state of Wisconsin, right, yeah,
all right, but if you look at it, like if
you isolate the lower line, it kind of looks like
a performance review from their head coaches, starting from Mike
Food and the Holtzterch to the left and then Doc
Rivers to the right.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, but even that is like so they have
like a navy blue outline on it. If you want
to illustrate just how your coaching progression is gone, why
not throw some of that green or purple in there
to make it pop a little bit more? Are you
ashamed of your coaching trend at this point? What's going on?
Speaker 2: Would have sainked them is the deer that they had
in the mid nineties that was nice, like the green ones.
I don't know, you remember that was the Ray Allen,
then Robinson, same Cassell era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure, I would have loved something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do not.
Speaker 1: I honestly don't love this. I do, like you said,
I appreciate, you know, kind of outlining the state of Wisconsin.
I definitely respect that, but I don't know. I would
like to see more colors here. And I can even
get on board with how small like the numbers and
the lettering is just because it fits inside what they're
trying to outline. But I would have liked to have
seen like a different type of There's a lot in
like the latter two thirds of the front that should
be happening. That is just not Next team up is
the Minnesota Timberwolves, which, yeah, I will say this pops
in their paint like they're painted area on the court.
Why didn't they extend this all the way down the jersey? Yeah?
Why they only kept it up top is beyond me
because I read a lot of the elements of it,
and they also could have Why not incorporate it more?
If you're gonna keep it so high on the front,
why isn't it more like on the trim like the
rib area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that is literally the only downside, but it
is a significant downside because I want more of whatever
that is and it's like Minnesota small.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even it's not even like a gradual stoppage,
like I know you're going from the solid color to
like cut of the transparent patterned checkered blue, but it
just looks like they stopped like halfway. Like this looks
like a half baked finish. This is right, I think
it's Is it an F? I really like the time? No?
Speaker 2: No, Like, what they're actually starting is pretty good. We
can't call it an F just because they're starting good
stuff early in the early how.
Speaker 1: Many quarters is a basketball game? Four? And you're rewarding
a team for having a good first quarter net rating
and then getting obliterated in the latter three periods. We
did that with the Dallas Mavericks in two thousand and seven,
a whole bunch when when Josh Howard was wrong, it.
Speaker 2: Was along So I mean no, I mean, I'm just
saying they've got something right, they've got something.
Speaker 1: That's not enough. It's a D. They got something and
then they under they marginalized it.
Speaker 2: This is like D plus.
Speaker 1: This is like, hey, I was saying, Anthony Edwards on
the team standing in the corner taking only threes off kickouts,
that's what this jersey is. What would you give that?
How would you grade that usage of Anthony Edwards?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, that's basically his role right now
because no one else shooting, so right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's not doing that.
Speaker 2: All right? Fair enough? But D D plus? Is there
a D plus?
Speaker 1: There can be a DP plus. Actually I don't know
if there's actually a deep plus, but we routine that
you give out D pluses.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, then I'm gonna go D plus. You.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be the one to ask because I obviously
only got A pluses. So I just I'm not familiar
with the other grades.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I I sense that you you have
that vibe over you. Absolutely. The New Orleans Pelicans, look,
that's clean and it leans into their like this skeleton
thing they've had before. Yeah, I just I have a
hard time hating that. Like I still think the Pelicans
is a weird name for a professional basketball team, but
the fact that they're going into like the city edition,
it's New Orleans and all that, and it's you know,
it's jazzy, it's festive, colorful. Yeah, I mean this is
a solid plus, even though it's very simple. I will
say this. The only reasons not an A is because
of what we've said before, just it's too high and
little too small, like fill it out, baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fill it out, baby.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Uh So. Also, I don't think we like to incorporate
like the yellow gold with the purple and the I'm
just saying lime green, Like that's really hard to do tastily.
They've done that. What I find myself wishing is what
do they call it the herringbone?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Like it's not it needs to be clear that that's
what's happening there, because it kind of just looks like
random waves or lines even if you zoom in on it,
and I like, could you have done a bit like
if that was just a deeper shade of white or something,
or a deeper shade of bone colored to make that
like to understand what because in real time that's not
something you're gonna notice. I'm gonna go, I'll go, b
this has so much This is the potential to be
so much better though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Next up we have your New York Knicks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've seen some type of iteration of this before,
and as someone who wears glasses and can't see Jack
when I remove them. I just get confused because I
saw that and I was like, am I not wearing
glasses right now? So that that messes me up. I
can't like. But if people love it, fine. I love
the fact that it stands on its own though, like
the double New York right there. Yeah, and the NYC
is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Too with the Do you like it that? Like, there's
the Nike, the Nike. I'm gonna call it Nike from
Now and the Night.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's nice. It's a little unique, don't
I don't like.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's extra space on the front. I don't
love the I call it echo lettering. I don't know
what the actual just like you're you're designer, what's the
actual terminolog for that?
Speaker 2: I honestly can't remember, but he does have a name.
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: So, and I guess I do like the trims on
the sides, where like you have the orange and the blue,
but these don't. It's it's just another Like you said,
we've kind of seen some variation before, and this is
a franchise that historically is not taking chances with their jerseys,
So I want to see more chances of me, I'm
going d.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm going higher than that though, I'm
going see why. I understand why you're skeptical of this one.
I understand why you're not really into it. I do.
Speaker 1: The idea of the blue over orange is fine, but
and they're not. I'm actually reading the description now that
we've seen it. I don't they call it a color
flip of last seasons And that's like right there, that's
a red flag or should we call it an orange flag?
That's an orange flag for me. So I don't love it.
And and just like you can't they try to make
the pin stripes really subtle. Lean into the pinstripes baby,
would you say flu into a baby?
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, like if the Knicks wanted to lean into
the city more as well, Like I know uper is
taking over, but like for us overseas, we associate New
York also with like the yellow caps, right, Like that's
the thing. So if you really wanted to take a
chance with a jersey, you could make it yellow in
some reason respects.
Speaker 1: I think if you wanted to take a chance more,
you could do literally anything else. Probably, yeah, be the
other way to put it not a fan of that one.
Golden State Warriors on No, wait, Okohome City Thunder. Sorry, that's.
Speaker 2: I know what you did there. Yes, I agree. I
agree with your point. You basically just made one. That's
that's that's just a lot going on, no personality, very
just simplistic, I know. But in fairness, I've hated the
Oklahoma City brand since it developed it. I hate it.
They need a whole new, fresh redesign. I'm never down
with anything they kind of remote visually. I don't like
any of their jerseys. I'm not with this either. Sorry.
Speaker 1: I actually don't actually mind like kind of the dark
base with all these lighter colors all over the place.
I don't because it feels like we've seen it before
and they they were calling this it's a two year
arc like story arc on the jersey. It's kind of
like you mentioned, did you forget that like these were
do or something, so you decide to go the round.
I do like sort of the you have that deep
navy blue whatever like dark blue on the sides with
I like the yellow and orange trim, and then you
have the light blue incorporated there. I don't actually mind these,
but it's just not different enough, and I would be
more like, you're okay, your name is the Thunder. There's
just so much that you could do here, like if
you like use a lightning bolt somewhere. The numbers probably
the size is okay, but like, why not go okay,
see again and just make it bigger. I'm just gonna
go see they didn't miss, but they certainly didn't hit
ce minus for me, we were close on that one. Then.
I don't know what the hell is going on here.
Speaker 2: So this has to be the Mass and Magic playing
together on a black and white television at this point.
Speaker 1: Look, I like the star as the A, like the
stand in A. The font is pretty cool, there's like
a jaggedness to it. Ah, I don't love the I
guess I'm also kind of just like from the original Magic,
where it's like it's a lighter blue and like with
the pinstripes there, I'm always going to appreciate that one more.
Speaker 2: This is just this is a miss, right, I would
say so. I was always told by one of my
teachers back then that you only go black and white
if you have a real message, otherwise it's just lazy.
I feel as though this goes into that camp.
Speaker 1: It's like, what do you give this?
Speaker 2: I think you had to give it an F, not
an F minus. We can't justify that, but an F.
Speaker 1: I'll go D plus because I do like the star
as the stand Oh.
Speaker 2: Okay, fair but like the the stary, that star carries
a lot of water here, all right, fair enough?
Speaker 1: Even the pin strips kind of look like a chain
link fence more than this point, Like, yeah, wait, I
want to look at I'm looking at the release of this.
I've been doing that after we deliver the grades or
initial impressions of them. They had the shortest release by far.
I don't think they even believed in this Jersey. That's
my I don't think that's a hot take, but that's
dropping facts here. Speaking of nineteen seventies adult films, we
have the Philadelphia seventy six ers Jersey. Yeah, I mean
no that I'm not getting seventies adult film the sixties aet.
It just reminds me of the Memphis a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, for me, the first thought I get there is.
Speaker 1: Doctor j That's what I think, which does which does
accomplish its purpose? Then?
Speaker 2: Exactly? So, like I can't I don't think it's a
good looking jersey, but it does achieve what it wants
to do. It wants to achieve something that's potentially not
all that inspiring. Fair enough, But I do think doctor
j I think Moses Malone, I think those type of names.
So I think B minus is probably the lowest I
can go here, even though I'd never buy one of
the Oh I'll never buy any of these jerseys, but
I definitely wouldn't buy this.
Speaker 1: That we should have grade them on a scale of
would cop to not cop would have been but these.
Speaker 2: I would have been flawed. I have said not cop.
I'm soon to be a forty year old man. I'm
not buying jerseys anymore. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'll go be minus as well too.
I wish the number could be a little bit bigger.
As a familiar criticism here, I do like the squares,
the four different color squares that are going down like
pattern pepper down the the rib side of it. They
did the stripe around like the neckline and the arm,
the sleeves. They did those nicely, so it's it's tastefully
clean without being too bland. So I'll go with I'll
go with a bee.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, cool, yeah, and now we move on to
the Phoenix Suns or the ninety ninety six NBA All
Star Game jerseys.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that is what I do. Like the number
overlaid on the orange star. I think that came out nice,
but I would rather see it it can be off center.
I'd rather see it way bigger. I don't mind the
like I call it a gothic font. That's probably maybe
not what it actually is.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it is. But I also think
I made a mistake in sineteen ninety four All Star Game, right, I.
Speaker 1: Mean the fact that you just had that. No, it's
nineteen ninety five, because now I just opened the press
release from it.
Speaker 2: Damn it. You're close though, Damn it's I'm getting old, man,
I don't remember.
Speaker 1: What do you call this font? Though? It's the West,
It's like, so it's the it's the Western font. I
thought it was gothic baby could have been.
Speaker 2: No, No, definitely not. I think the the the it's
kind of missing the flow valley.
Speaker 1: Yeah, make it just valley and then stretch it wider.
And then let's make that number with the star underlay.
Speaker 2: That popla a little bit more c plus.
Speaker 1: So I'm maybe I'm waiting it too much because I
love the trim on the sides. You see that that
came out really nicely with the purple and orange. I'll go, Oh,
you want C plus, I'll go be minus. Nah, I'll
go see plus as well. The font is and the
placement stuff on the front. Probably been talking into lower
than that.
Speaker 2: That is definitely the nineteen ninety five NBA All Star
Game jersey. I mean that, that's just what it is, really,
Rip City baby, Oh, that's a practice jersey. They're reducing
for a game. Fantastic. That's awesome. That's a good way
to actually save internally, just that they're paying all that
money for DeAndre Ayden and yeah, they're trying to save money.
This is great. Why not you should practice gear for
the for actual games. Love it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet you. I would like this way more. So,
I'm wondering if you can see this so you see
like the hints of the white, it's like almost it
looks like a plaid set up or a checkerboard kind of. Yes,
if that was more pronounced to make it clear that's
what was happening. Again, this isn't something that you notice
in real time number needs to be bigger. I don't
mind the Rip City font. I kind of like that
bubbly and I would call.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, bubb I don't know where I land on this.
This is tough to grade. I mean, do I go,
do I go D? I think I go D.
Speaker 1: I'll go see. I think it's just average. Yeah, honestly,
I really think if the like the white that's pop,
if that was just more prominent on the front, that
would make this jersey really tie together more. We move
on to the Sacramento Kings. The Cincinnati Royals is what
we should say. This is the D.
Speaker 2: This looks like a college jersey. Let's just be real
about it. And sometimes that can work, sometimes it may not.
I'm not sure where A fall on this.
Speaker 1: This looks like the New York Mets tried to go sleeveless.
Is the vibe I'm sort of getting from this like
baseball that or well, actually, maybe this would be the
intention too of just like semi pro. I keep thinking
of the Will Ferrell movies, like this is something we
would see in semi pro.
Speaker 2: That You're right, that's a D.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's not bad, like it's it's well
there could be I wanted to do this, there could
have been like more of a great I will give
them credit. Kings is big enough, I would say, right, yep,
but you could have done more of a gradient on
the front. I don't you know. What really throws it
off from me is I hate the white. Like if
it was just solid orange on the that would make
this look so much better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too noisy.
Speaker 1: It's noisy without being chaotic, which is alright.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Next up the San Antonio Spurs, who between them and
even the nets might be in there. They've had a
run of some pretty good city edition jersey, so the
standard here should be pretty high. How are you feeling, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, they ran something similar last year. I was not
with those. I do not like those there. I don't
know what it is about them. It just they feel
a little bit cartoonish with the very heavy orange background
on the on the letters, and I don't know what
it is. There's just there's something there that doesn't work
for me.
Speaker 1: I come close to loving it because I do agree
with you that it feels like they took those white
jerseys from last year and just made them like this.
The Spurs, they call it like Fiesta blue or green
or whatever it is. But I love that it does
seem like there's different shades to it. I actually love
the way the number in San Antonio could be bigger,
but I love the just the juxtaposition between, like the
two different colors there. I thought they it looks like
they did the outline, like the neckline and the you know,
the sleeves of the jersey fairly. Well, I'll go be here,
but there much more potential. Yeah, I'm at a C
and it is the potential specifically where I'm just it
doesn't feel very santonio e in a way.
Speaker 2: I say, having never been there, so maybe I should
just shut the hell up. But it's I don't know
what it is. Maybe the locals are far more responsive
to this, but what we saw from last year at least,
and you're right, there is a change. I remember my
reaction every time I turned on a Spurs game and
they were wearing this. I was like, damn it, because
now I have to look at those again.
Speaker 1: I do like the actual Spurs, like Estair jerseys are
some of my favorites, so I do love that, But yeah,
I wonder I also wonder how much I'm just thrown
off where it feels so similar to last year, even
though the jersey is like completely like the colors are
at least inverted if you want to throw it that way.
We're nearing the end, mord Are are you getting nostalgic
for this exercise? Yet? We're onto the Toronto Raptors, who
I don't want to speak for you, but I think
they hit pretty hard.
Speaker 2: Of course they did. Look that. The uniforms are always
nicer when they take some creative license from the past
and they just splash something on. This is a tribute
to Vince, is a tribute to the Rapture local logo itself,
Like remember the when they switched things up in nineteen
ninety nine two thousand, when they went away from the
Rapture and things started becoming a little bit more streamlined,
like this was Vin's second year. Like you could kind
of roll with that jersey for a while, but you
were kind of missing the Raptor, Like the presence of
the Rapture was always sort of like where's he gone?
Like this this slaps This is an A.
Speaker 1: I wonder if yeah, this is an A. I wonder
if they could could they have gotten any traction of
if they just used maybe some of the purple and
the red at the bottom and maybe even the gold
of let's just make it like could they have put
some like Cretaceous period environment, just things thrown in there like.
Speaker 2: This rock now we're going back to the nineties? Love it?
Speaker 1: That would have made this an a plus. And this
is one of the few instances where I'm just okay
because of the way the number is placed by the Raptor.
I'm okay with it being small. Even if you could
have made both bigger, and I would have loved it more,
you know what would have.
Speaker 2: Been extra dope?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: If those city edition jerseys, so, how how often are
they going to be used over the course of this season?
Like a couple times, right at least?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's more than a few.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But if imagine if it was only one game
and each team had to like reveal his jersey a
little bit ahead of time but not necessar early at
the same time, and it was only one game, then
I want ever to play the Raptress to be like
the meteor, just like psyching it out. Could be the
suns where the son You'll remember the nineties sun mark, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah Medior.
Speaker 1: Instead, Houston Rockets could have definitely done something with a comedy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go, Like I need some rivalry in
the Jersey department.
Speaker 1: They should. You should be allowed ones that you don't
unveil until tip off, like at least one game per
year and then like internally you get to pick the game.
I know, whatever worked that way, But that'd be fun
as hell.
Speaker 2: Where the Rapture, Like imagine the Raptors were playing the
Bulls and they just had the Bulls, had the bullhead
there in between its class.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh they put like the Raptors have one where
it's just their team munching on the other team's logo.
Would be great. Yeah, that would be right sat the
Utah Jazz moret.
Speaker 2: So I gained some appreciation here. I was in Utah
twenty twenty two and I drove in from the airport
to the hotel and saw like the mountains and whatnot,
and it was gorgeous. I never would have imagined you'd
have to be that gorgeous. Never would have imagined. So
I have some some newfound respect for that jersey and
for the mountains there. I run with it. C plus
at least if not be minus not where you know
it's that high, because again I feel as though that
the top it eats something, there's a little bit too barren.
But I still run with it minus.
Speaker 1: I wish that the scenery stretched down more, maybe the
number was bigger. I want to love this because I
love so many different variations of this. I don't love
the font. Actually, I would like that to be like
a little bit more anarchic, where it's just like this
seems like a like what is it trying to be?
Is it like a Midwestern Gothic? I don't know what
it's trying to be. And then the numbers is plane
love the jersey outline, the neckline there they did a
good job with but it's just like we've seen too
many variations of this before and this doesn't differentiate itself enough.
I'm still gonna go be because I love it, but
that kind of just shows how much room there is
for them to do better with this. Get louder Utah
next year, finally more they are your or they Jordan
their blaw Kolibal He's Washington Wizards, but I don't think
he wants to put his name on this.
Speaker 2: So what's the point of putting the district and then
I assume it says of Columbia underneath When you can't
see what it says.
Speaker 1: You can't really read the the I guess it pops
a little bit, but right, It's also it is embarrassed.
This jersey feels like it's embarrassed to be itself because
of how small even the district of that tiny that
It's like, are you embarrassed to be the Wizards? Is
that what this is? It's first of all your fun
as hell this year for the most part, just why
why is everything not bigger? The cop out with the
stars on the this is just like, man, you could
have done so much more with this.
Speaker 2: I it feels like it knows democracy died a couple
of weeks ago and.
Speaker 1: It was projecting. Yeah, so I will say it does
look like I'm seeing now, so you can see I'm
pointing at the screen like people can see on the
on the sleeve line. You see there's like a white
splatter in the blue. That is cool. That is the
only thing I like about this jersey. I think I'm
trying to read their justification. Inspired by hydrogen blue, this
jersey reflects the flow and energy that have shaped Washington,
DC from its early boundaries to a city without limits.
Yeah that makes sense. Really if this is reflective of that,
I guess the wave like ripples woven into the design.
What wave like ripples? I guess they're talking about, like
if that's the Okay, sure, the neckline, the sleeve line, great,
but uh no, No.
Speaker 2: We're ending on a sour note here. The Wizards just
messed this whole.
Speaker 1: Thing up, and they look they close with It's a
celebration of Washington's boundless potential and the Wizards's role in
its bright future. If this is emblematic of Washington's outlook,
Wizards fans should be distraught. This is a terrible jersey.
Speaker 2: Is this?
Speaker 1: I think we've done it. This might be my f minus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is the one we don't want,
the report card we don't want to bring back home
to mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah. More, this was a lot of fun. It was.
I hope you had fun. I hope our listeners.
Speaker 2: I was hoping to use this as a podcast, but
I'm realizing just the visual element of this makes it
absolutely impossible to do. So.
Speaker 1: I think you could throw it up there at the
end of one of your other podcasts if you want.
Speaker 2: That's true?
Speaker 1: Do you just want to tell our listeners they can
find you in all the great work that you do,
which does apparent Now you can add critiques NBA jerseys
from time.
Speaker 2: Right right, See that might be my crowning achievement. So yeah,
you can find me over at Yahoo Sports, over at
Sports Illustrated, Slash Draft Digest, where I mostly look at rookies.
I'm forgetting Forbes of course, see all the places. Yes,
I also cover the weague over at Forbes. I have
the NBA podcast that I am running on what season ten? Now,
jesus season one?
Speaker 1: I think you have must be because I started this
in twenty fifteen. Yeah, so this might be twenty fifteen sixteen.
I might be on season ten too. We start the
same year. That's bizarre.
Speaker 2: I started in sixteen though, but we we split them
in every every single July July first, we split them
into new season.
Speaker 1: Oh, we don't do that.
Speaker 2: Running eleven.
Speaker 1: We've been up and running since twenty fifteen. I don't
know how many We've spanned thousands, over fifteen hundred or
run episode almost twelve hundred at this point because we
used We used to go once a week.
Speaker 2: We uped it. But that's that's a young man's game.
Young men's game. I can't I can't match those numbers.
But yeah, and you can find me on Bluesy like
I guess you could find him on Twitter. I'm not
really active there for obvious reasons anymore. Uh, blue Sky
at m SJ NBA, and then I think it's dot
blop b sky dot social.
Speaker 1: We just go to blue Sky and search MSJ or
my name.
Speaker 2: We'll we'll find this was great.
Speaker 1: More rest assured, I'll be pestering you again in the future.
Until next time. I leave everyone with a shout out
to the one, the only, the indelible wouldn't stand for
this final jersey that we just saw, Frank Nilik