Speaker 1: Hell, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the four hundred
and fifty eighth podcast, but more specifically the Batman Review.
It's a funny time because, crazy enough, we've never done
a solo Batman movie. We've covered a lot of things,
but a soul Batman movie has not come out since
two thousand and twelve. But here we are ten years
later and we're about to break geek risk ground. So
it's very exciting. I am the clown Prince of podcast
tras now and I'm joined.
Speaker 2: By Zippermouth, Kirklin, Patzer, Adam Mark, Caster, Dyl Mus, thumb Drive,
Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yes, lads, gimen, we got lots of stuff going on.
Me and Dylan just did a great Elen Ring review
with Sarah, so check that out. There's a newscast this week.
Me and Kirkland also almost did three hours about euphoria.
You got the Batman happening right now, and then this
weekend we have the geek Risk Gone is finally coming back.
It's all confirmed. You got two big matchups with Dylan
and Taylor and then myself and Kirkland. You want to
tune that. There's always good time. Al was good Hijing
sets Saturday at six pm PST, So check that out.
It's gonna be a good time. So Taylor, when all
the stuff drops off, and there apparently could even be
a Disney Vesterday next week, so when all the stuff's happening,
Where can they find info on Gefer's podcast, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Speaker 3: You can find this with your Internet connection in the
search bar. Geekers dot SA is our home based keep
first cast on our Twitter and Geekers on our Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yes, leadis Gentlemen and the links are all down below
her to find us. The audio, the video, the podcast feeds.
Everything you can find the separate feeds for side quests, reviews, news, retrospectives,
all the good stuff Harry Potter, Harry Potter retrospects that
are popping off right now, because if you can't believe it,
there is a new Harry Potter Fantastic Past film coming
on in like a month. So you got that popping off.
Lots of good things the podcast network. Check out man
Scapeh's sponsoring us this month twenty percent off and free
shipping using that pod code gv pod. That's it. I
don't know why I said podcat, but you know what
pod Code podcast. Let's get into this because we had
lots of stuff, so you know, I gotta start with
this man because I'm very curious as thoughts out of
all of us, Dilma saw it or I don't know
how this happened, but we had brought this up on
after nine. Everyone was very curious, just like myself, that
you had seen very minimal You're not see any full treads,
but you'd seen very minimal like maybe a clip here,
some promotion stuff, but you've not seen much of this.
You just knew okay passings and the Batman, and you
know the guy that made the Plant Eights movies making
this movie. So what did you think of the Batman?
Nons was of course, and then we'll tell people, because
I know some people are still seeing it a couple
days later, we'll tell you. We'll give you the warning
as usual.
Speaker 4: Well, I will say that I was at the like
fan first event, which is a day early. Like I
don't know why they're making it feel like this event.
It's like I'm saying this like twenty four hours early,
and there was a lot going on, Like they had
this Batman background and like the music was playing for
like twenty minutes beforehand, and they were showing so many
screenshots and like little clips and like trivia. It's like,
who play is the Riddler in the Batman. It's like
just spoiling all this stuff.
Speaker 5: I'm like, I get it.
Speaker 4: If you're a big fan, you've probably seen all these trailers.
But I was trying to go into this just completely blind,
and they didn't want me to. So I was like, oh, well,
now I know what these characters look like. Man, that
kind of sucked so that that was unfortunate. But I'm
sure everyone else in the theater who I knew all
that stuff was into it. But I think this is
this is a great movie. I really enjoyed this. It's
it's a long movie, but it didn't to me drag
at any point. I felt like it just kept me
on the edge of my seat. I like the kind
of main villain in there with Riddler, I think is
really well done. That's a lot of fun. The acting's
great for the most part. There's a couple scenes maybe
i'd point out that not so much. I also just
think that the casting, like I feel I can ever
talk about this, but just the casting was great, Like
every character with the type, the type of character they're
going forward with these different versions of these characters we've
seen before.
Speaker 5: I feel like they just nailed it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like it was pretty There's some unexpected twists,
some good stuff. The music was great, cinematography is great,
and there wasn't like just too much like fight scenes
and stuff like that, like for a long movie too.
I feel like it moved pretty quick and there wasn't
just one long, like twenty minute fight scene that I
was just bored out of my mind or something. So
so Yeah, as a kind of mediocre Batman fan, I
was pretty impressed. I really liked this movie.
Speaker 1: Well, there you go, tair Field, how do you think
of how do you think? What did you think of
this movie?
Speaker 3: I was just engulfed with what was going on. I
feel like, you know, the standalone Batman vibe just really
was just hitting me hard in like a good way.
I was loving everything that was being presented to me,
and I was just eating up all these characters and
how the actors were delivering their roles and everything like that,
and it was just really really working for me, and
no flack at all towards you know, Ben Affleck Batman
I know people love them.
Speaker 1: Oh you got to start the review like this, but
I just nider boys are going to go this one.
Speaker 3: Star going from twenty sixteen all over again, going from
going from Bail's Batman to you know, Afflex Batman, it
was definitely a change up, but like going to Robert's
Batman has just put it into this category that I
really just got on board with that I liked. And
maybe because we're doing our comic book versions, that's really
kind of made this movie stand up so much higher
as to why I really really was on board with
what we were getting into.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, can I ask you just off the wall question.
When you were talking about the Batman's you said Bail
and Afflex and then you went Roberts. Is there a
specific reason why you don't why you call Robert by
his first name and not the other Batman by their
first name.
Speaker 2: That's a good question.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm on a personal level with Robert, now, okay,
but it's a journey.
Speaker 2: I feel that way too, Taylor.
Speaker 1: Well, Kirk then tell us a bit about your personal journey.
He said you were sweaty, So I'm hoping that's a
good type of sweaty.
Speaker 2: I was, yeah, I mean just to break the fourth wall.
Like I got out of the theater less than thirty
minutes ago, and so it's very very fresh. The sweat
hasn't completely like you know, dampened when I left the theater.
It just cooled instantly, like the draft just hit me
and I just frozen to the bone. This movie without
any spoilers, like it just had me in the first
five minutes, And in the first five minutes I knew
that this was going to be a very very special movie.
And that's that's not even talking about like all the
things that I heard lean up to it. Like I
wasn't really on social media to get any spoilers or
anything like that, but I saw I think maybe two
like overall scores and very very high. So I was like, Okay,
that's good. It's not like rotten or anything like that,
not that I thought it would be. But yeah, I'm
not going to describe the scenes, but like literally the
first five minutes, I just knew this was going to
be so absolutely fantastic, and it had me the entire way.
It was a three hour movie. It felt like it
could have just kept going and I would have been
completely down for it. The pacing was phenomenal, acting was phenomenal. God,
Robert Pattinson is just something else. Man Zoe Kravitz like,
this is. Yeah, it's it's so fresh that I feel
like I still have to process it's what went on.
But yeah, this is this is a very very special
movie and I can't wait to just revisit it right
off the hop this is I think I think this
was my favorite Batman story ever, and that's like including
the very minimal stories that I've read, but still like,
this was just this was such a well made movie
and I'm I'm just so giddy. I'm so happy that
this is the thing. I feel so just like humbled
and honored that I was able to like witness this
in theaters too. We're not like locked down or something
like that, so I could actually like fully get what
what I got on screen. And yeah, I'll just pass
the torch there because I don't want to accidentally spoil
anything because I just have so much to talk about
character wise, Dylan wise, So yeah, I'll pass the torch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it's been such a journey. When they
announced this movie, it was Affleck directing it, starring, and
then it was Matt Reeves directing Aflet and then he
completely left and they readed the movie and they started, okay,
it's a new Batman and pass and I knew from
that at least it was gonna be a great com
but we had talked about before and passed it was
up there, and I just actually was like the other
day I got the Facebook memory of seeing Tarror posts
on geek versus and how many people gave the angry
emoji too, and all these comments, and I was in
the comments just being like, now he's gonna do great,
like I believe in him, and we'll see, and luckily
I'm right. And for me, I'm somebody that, like I said,
it's like we had so much Batman that, like I said,
people forget. But I have been craving a solo, live
action Batman story. Again. It's great having team up Street
to do Lego Batman and stuff, but to have when
the story's just on him. It's been a minute. It's
been ten years. I've had three kids since that has happened,
and everyone knows this. I've shout it from the rooftop.
It's like the Dark Knight is my favorite movie. That's
the movie that has got me the most interested in filmmaking.
All these things. I need to sit on it, but
I definitely think which is I still didn't even think
I would say that. I think I have a new
favorite movie, and I think this is it. I this
was just everything I wanted and more. The cast, the crew,
the cinematography, especially cineatography. There's so much stuff that's just
so good. The vibe. It's a thriller movie, it's a
horror movie, it's a drama. It has an action movie,
and I think, like, don't say the action is maybe
not as big as some other Batman movies, but when
it's there, it's big. So it feels like it stands
out of it more than just like, Okay, we've just
thrown a bunch of action because you want to see
Batman beat up a guy. No, this movie has everything.
It has like the bombastic heroism of the Batman animated series.
It has like the lore that BBS had, which I
always like when they throw out like little things. It
has like the gothy Phil Burden does. It has like
the groundedness that no one has. So it's like taking
all the best from Batman film and then the best
stuff from Batman comic books and just like rolling it
into one and Matt reeves, He's just created I can
see now why they right away were like, oh yeah,
you can do that Penguin show, and you can do
that Gotham pd show, and they've already said like, oh yeah,
we'll probably do in the Batman today. I can see
why they saw this and it was like it creates
this whole, living, breathing world. And I can't wait for
more with this film. Even if we didn't get more,
this is to me just such a special film and
because for me, it's just like hype can be a
good thing, but I can also be a bad thing
because you can get overhyped and then you just build
this Especially this movie get in delayed. We were supposed
to see this a year and a half ago, you know,
like I got delayed so many times. It just goes
and goes. But no, this is a phenomenal piece of
comic book. It's one of those heavy hitters. It's one
of those that is gonna change the game. People are
gonna talk about it, and it's a very very just
like Kirkle someone the first five minutes The opening act
of this movie is very different. It doesn't feel like
a comic book movie in the way that we once
we get repeatedly. It feels a lot like what we
got a few years ago a joke. It's like, Okay,
this can be something different and this can really stand
out and uh yeah, past I don't know if I
can do the whole claim and being the best Batman,
but I think I like, I I hate doing that
because I hate it's so hyperball because I just saw
it a few hours ago, right, But it's just that
feeling that you got, like I have. If I have
any cons when we get to him, they're gonna be
super minor. I don't have anything major. And just he
was phenomenal. Just and the score. I think this is
Michael Giachino's best work. And this guy has had so
many great musical tracks. The first time I hear him
wasn't up. And this score is just it's something else.
Like I know we're definitely gonna be talking about next
year for going Geeks score wise, because it's just it like,
at times it felt like a horror movie and in
the best way possible. So yeah, this movie, I think
it lives up to everything. The run time didn't hit me.
It had that Lord of the Rings feel where that
three hours just blew right by. I just couldn't even believe,
Oh man, we've been And even Emily, who usually didn't
like longer movies, like, yeah, that didn't feel like three hours.
So I think that's good. I love just the mystery
ass and I love everything about you know, for years
it's Matt Reeves has set up, but we get that
detective that when we get him working on these cases
and uh yeah, it's uh it delivers the hype. So
is there anything you guys want to say non spoilers
before we get into this.
Speaker 2: Just to add on to what you said with like,
if we don't get anything else moving forward, I can
live with that because this is just such a well
told story, like from start to finish and it yeah, no,
no spoilery stuff, but like still, like I when I
left it, I just felt like that was a complete film.
I didn't think that I was like lacking anywhere. Uh
it was. It's just it's such a great story. It
was so well like I was. It was almost like
you know, if you watch the Snyder cut and you
have like the act one act too, Like I feel
like I could just feel that naturally, and it just
it was a full it was a full story and
so well it was, it was told so well. So
I just I got tipped my hat to Matt Reeves
everyone involved with this, like this was they delivered. There's
so much hype on it, and I think this passed
it if you're asking me. So that's all I got
to say.
Speaker 4: One thing I'll add to as because the you know,
every every one of these movies with a new actor
playing the role, like I have some sort of origin
aspect to it, and this definitely takes a different approach
to the origin story than we've seen in other Batman movies.
And I'll say that I saw this with my partner Mads,
and she's doesn't know anything about Batman. Pretty much before
the movie, I'm like, what do you know about Batman?
Speaker 5: Like anything?
Speaker 4: She's like, there's there's Batmobile. That's like pretty much. It
doesn't know like who Bruce Wayne is or what the
backstory is. And I and and it worked for her,
like everything made sense and she knew who the character
was and and like they do it in a different
way in this time rather than like getting your half
an hour that's just kind of boring slog fest if
you know who this character is already. So and for
me as well, I also really like that too because
I know enough about it. I don't want to see
that same stuff over and over again. And I think
they sprinkled it in in a really good way. So
that's a big, big to the movie because it'll just
stand on its own. It won't feel like something that's
just slog to go back to as well. I think
you to kind of get right and do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you he's gonna do that too, because like
we're at the stage where we're talking about different you know,
incarnations of an actor. Oh it's a new Batman, new Inspiermen.
But there's always gonna be somebody that this is their
first Batman movie, you know, even if it's like a kid,
even though I don't know how much of kid. It's
fairy similar Dark Knight, where there's some dense stuff where
it's like I don't know how much they enjoy it,
but there will be some kids I'll see it and
love it and it will be the first time of
you know, so you walk that tight rope if you
want to show that stuff, but you don't want to
just rehash it because it has been done since the
eighties over and over again and not even counting comic books.
So well, so this is your last chance. If you've
not seen We're gonna take an ad break so you'll
hear that and then you can go jump over and
come back if you've not seen it. But if you have,
buckle up, baby, because we're gonna have a fun time.
So we'll be right back. And we're back. So I
don't know if we want to start with a character,
if we want to start with a story where we
want to go. The only thing I'll say is don't
start with the thing at the end and the prison
will save that to the very end, because that's a
whole conversation. But Taylor Field has his et finger up,
so I'm gonna let you lead the way.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say, I think we should just start
with the very beginning, like as far as like like
a Batman bold bold, as far as like a Batman
kind of story goes, like, I just was great just
to have him kind of like guiding us into like
what's going on, and again, like obviously we see a
little bit of like the Riddler kind of make his
his jump in, which was fucking scary as shit, terrifying,
But after that and you just get okay, like it's Halloween.
Bruce Wayne's just kind of narrating it, and then just
the score builds up and you just get his entrance
like Enter the Batman. It's like, holy shit. It was
just crazy good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is something where I had said this
before even the trailers. I didn't repeat it on splot,
but this just felt like for myself and a few others,
and I'm gonna read some Patreon reviews too of people
that had seen it. You can do that, join Patreon,
adrass of early episodes, do things like that, send reviews.
It just feels like batter is everything I wanted a
Batman movie. Took it out of my brain and did it,
and for I think decades all of us, and it's
minimal in this movie, but we've been like, man, are
we ever going to get a Batman movie where he narrates,
because that's the comic books. It's always him narrating, it's
from his point of view, and it is minor, but
it still worked enough as the Guiding Light, and I
think it's a good introduction because I think you can
get more of that going forward. But even this movie,
I just I don't know why, just them he revealing
he has this little journal that works as two things,
as like his personal guy, but it's also just a
I love the line when he's like, I'm doing this
so much and for so long, the night's rolling into
each other and it's not like a it's not so
much like just a diary. It's literally between that and
the eye footage, just so he can actually remember when
did this happen? What day? And I think that shows
like how in the thick of it he is right
now that he can't even remember maybe last night, because
he's just he's just stuck in this cow all the time.
Speaker 2: You know, his his journal is even like the Gotham project,
and you can only imagine that that's just a never
ending project that he has, you know, with himself. And yeah, no,
I I absolutely loved him narrating. I I know that
we knew that, but it's I still like, forgot about
it until it was happening. Happened very quickly, but I
I loved it. There was I feel like there's a
big chunk in kind of like the middle that it
wasn't really narrating as No, it was just so much
going on, so it was like the beginning in the end,
but it was It was really really good because especially,
you know, I hadn't even read Batman comic until this year,
and that's where I was like, oh my god, he
narrates so much, so to just be fresh on that
and then jump into this movie, I feel like if
I never read the comics, I would have been like, man,
this is a very different take on the character of Batman,
but it's not because that's that's what he does in
the comics.
Speaker 4: And did you guys read this because this is long.
Halloween is what this like series whatever is called, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, no, I'm going to get them to read
it at some point. That's my favorite Batman comboy, But
this has tons of inspiration taken from that, and it
was funny that started on Halloween and even just like
him narrating while they're just showing people in the costumes.
I love that. I feel like they went out of
the way like we're gonna make some creepy like that
pumpkinhead guy that's a creepy green pumpkinhead. You know, like
it felt like a very like a Halloween you'd almost
not want to be a part of, you know. So
I love that starting on Halloween.
Speaker 5: I love those raining too.
Speaker 4: I feel like when you see just like panning shots
during like movies that feature Halloween, so it's just people
having fun in their costumes. But there's just such a
different tone to it when it's just pouring rain. But yeah,
I agree with you what you guys said about the
opening and just adding in that, like when they when
those thugs ask him, like who are you? And he says,
I am venged, Like that's such a good subversion of
the expectation of just you know, these superhero characters say
their very silly names like I'm Spider Man. I like
that he says this line said, So it kind of
caught me off guard. And maybe that's like a trailer thing,
but I thought I thought it was cool. And then
obviously that's a big thematic thing throughout the whole movie
that comes back. So the fact that it kind of
comes up in that first scene with him is is
a good way to introduce the character.
Speaker 1: So in the very first trailer when they got shut down.
I got delayed the first time because of COVID. They
showed they were only shooting for six weeks, so they
had a few things to show. That was the scene
they show that kind of got everyone super hyped because
it was like, Okay, what's gonna and it was everything.
And know it's funny though throughout the movie, characters like Penguin, Catwoman,
more of them call him Vengeance more than Batman, So
he almost wonders, like, is that kind of actual his
name around here? Where Batman maybe will be a persona,
especially when we talk about the ending of like he'll
maybe lean into more now, but people more call him
Vengeance than the Batman. Then they don't even explain how
he got that name, which I'm fine with. He didn't
give it to him, so it's just kind of like, okay,
like he's a bad guy, right, so I know that's
how he got it, But it wasn't like he's proclaimed
it or some reporter gave it to him. It's just
he's known as the Batman, but people just refer to that,
and I like that. I like because again, he's not
as right now like in the public eye, so it's
just kind of this like mysterious figure and man that
so like they saw. They showed scenes of that in
the trailers and teasers, but it did not compare at
all to what it actually felt like. I love anytime
this man walks on screen. He has these heavy metal
boots that are like a gunslinger, and you just hear
him coming, and I love that the first Like they
do this a lot of this movie, but I'd say
the first act they make it feel like Batman is
like Michael Myers or Jason for like you feel like
I know it's from his point of view, but from
the criminals, he is to me, maybe the scariest he's
ever been into Batmanvie. He feels like he's the villain
of this movie sometimes, like they give him jump scare music.
A lot of the times, it's like he's the hero
of the story. And that's where the kind of toss
up is that he realizes maybe there's more things to
do to become an actual hero. But I loved everything
they did, especially that first act in the first half
of making him feel kind of very scary and intimidating
because he says that opening like it's all about fear
and that's all I gotta do. And yeah, you got
that going on.
Speaker 2: That's such a big thing with Batman, right, being that
symbol of fear, and that was shown so really well
like in the very in the like I said, like
the first ten minutes, it just it just totally sucked
me in when it just shows like the dark shadows
and then like the CROs like the criminals are and
then they see the symbol and they're just like literally frozen,
like that one pumpkinheado that you're describing, like he he
he kind of froze up, almost got hit by a
car there, right, and he does the Batman no exactly.
And then something I was pointing out to my buddy
as were leaving out was like they just showed him
being this like literally just fear so well, and not
even just from the point of the criminals, like when
he goes to the mayor's house and all the cops
are just like staring at him so fearful. Very pretty
much very end of the movie too, when he's helping
out like the new mayor, like even her like she's
really hesitant, and that is a fantastic shift, you know,
Like by the end of the movie of him actually
being a hero, not just this mass vigilante that's literally
just breaking the law and just kind of taking the
law into his own hands. And that was so well
done because you know, like in Bails Batman, that's a
big point of it, like I am fear. I'm gonna
take the I'm gonna take my own fear and put
it on uh like criminals, and like that's gonna be
my weapon. But in here I felt that instantly.
Speaker 1: And I picked Bales Batman to fight any day over
this scary guy. Now, you know, like when you look.
Speaker 2: At you hear those boots like clicking and clacking.
Speaker 5: Come on, I'm gonna be squeaky clean.
Speaker 2: I'm not pulling any crime.
Speaker 1: And I love like we had tug about this before,
but in this wee was really accentuated that They made
a point that he wanted to open up the eye
slits a lot more, and I thought that was such
a great motivation because there's lots of dialogue, or there's
lots of scenes with no dialogue for passing, but he's
doing that. Tom Hardy like I acting, and I think
them opening up because it sometimes in the photos it
looks awkward because there's so much white on him and
like oh, like like he looks like he just has
big eyes on the cow. But it really worked in
the moment because there's just so much him scanning or
like you mentioned those scenes of him in the interrogation
or with the police, he's just staring them down or
just a little look and he comes off as very intimidated,
not trustworthy, and the best way other than other than Gordon,
you know, other than he's the one guy like, oh,
what's you know?
Speaker 2: What do you deal with this?
Speaker 3: Jim?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What about you? You started it off? So what
do you think about some of the stuff with Batman
and Pattinson and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I do feel like they just blended into
like being the perfect combination of the two. I think
like getting to see it like how you mentioned like
just more like work around with the mask. So he's
he did so much like I work, like you said,
like the Tom Hardy kind of thing, and I loved it.
There were so many shots where he would just be
like like angling his head and using his eyes like
he just his facial expressions did so much work for him.
That made him more intimidating and made him more freaky,
and yeah, like you guys were talking about the whole
beginning part there where he's not even there and he's
just talking like, yeah, you know, I can't be everywhere.
It's a big city kind of thing, and yeah, people
are just getting terrified, Like you're looking into the corner
and you feel like in those scenes you can just
revert to like, hey, we've all been a little kid
where you're looking in the closet and it's dark and
you feel like something is there, and that's what these
criminals are like, they're they terrified. Then the guy gets
by a car and he runs off like it's just
it's so scary, and I loved that. It was a
great introduction to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah that line you show. I really love that, Like
it's a big city, I can't be everywhere, and that
like put the stakes in it too, because it's like
again they are trying to do a bit more of
a grounded Batman Again. It just shows like, yeah, he
can have all these gadget deals stuff, but he can't
cover anything, like people are gonna die, people are gonna
get hurt. But if he can put that that motivator
out there, fear and I know we're gonna talk about throughout,
but that's why I love and I'm not gonna be
like Taylor to take shots to be like, oh, you know, bvs.
But like, I was so happy that this Batman is
where we are because like there's so many times where
Batman in a movie doesn't have like a complete journey
because it's about the venture or the villain. This is
the whole, from him being vengeance to being fear and
what not to the ending of Them movie where he
beats up that one Riddler guy and the Riddler guy
is like, oh, I'm vengeance and just that realization of man,
I'm doing it wrong. And it's definitely because I'm a
Batman sucker and fanboy. But that moment when he is
walking out with that girl kid and he's covered in
dirt and everyone's down and out and he puts her
down and she grabs them and when he like grabbed
her hand, the first time you've seen Batman in this
film do anything like emotional or caring because he was
like and he's talking about hope, Man, I start a
tear up and I was like, that's my Batman, like,
and that's what Bat's supposed to be where it is
this dark figure, but at the end of the day,
it is supposed to inspire. And that's why I love
that whatever with this movie ending, if we get more,
it's like his The whole movie was to show that, Okay,
there is benefits to doing this fear and vengeance act,
but it's only kind of gonna be a revolving circle
because other people are doing that, especially like something like
The Riddler, where I love that the actual journey was realizing, Okay,
I do have to you know, me going about it
this way the way that I didn't think I should
is the actual thing doing change. Because another thing he
says in that opening is like I've been at this
two years and not much has change. If not, it's
gotten worse.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So it's like, so, yeah, what is the point of
the Batman? And now that's why I like the whole
movie was finding the point of what the Batman is.
And I really enjoyed that kind of the hero's journey
because he is a hero in this movie. But it
does feel many times Baman's called the vigilante. This movie
really feels like he is a vigilante, like he's not
to be trusted and things like that. So I thought
it was great and passed and he just we kind
of know, like we've been talking about him for years.
I think like there's enough feel that I also saw Lighthouse,
they're like okay and Tenant that knows he was gonna
do a good job, and dyl what do you think
about his Bruce Wayne, because this is something they had
talked about before and they show that like they weren't
gonna do as of right now, the very flamboyant like
putting on a show that he's a recluse. He keeps
his own life right now, his life is just being Batman.
So I'd have to look at the screen time. I
think this is probably the first ever movie We're gone,
maybe more Batman screen time than Bruce Wayne. But what
do you think about him? And obviously that might perlay
into some Alford scenes as well, but his time is
Bruce in this movie.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I had some notes on on the Batman specifically, but
we'll come back to that. But yeah, for for Bruce Wayne, honestly,
that was one thing I felt like was maybe a
bit one dimensional with the character. And obviously it's not
like Bruce Wayne and Batman are two separate characters, like
obviously you kind of roll them into one. But yeah,
that is a big thing, is that the screen time
is heavily focused on Batman, and when he ever he's Bruce,
he just wants to be Batman instead.
Speaker 5: He does not want to be wherever he has to be.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it's kind of just the same sulky,
moody thing and it's it's fun. I like it, but
there isn't really a lot of dynamic to it. I felt,
and honestly, I love I love Robert Pattison. To me,
the scene in the hospital, I didn't think the acting
was great. And I'm that's probably a hot take. You
guys probably all love that scene, but yeah, to me,
the me, the acting and like the consistency of the
character just didn't work. And I can't even really put
a finger on why, but it just it just didn't
sit right with me.
Speaker 5: And that's too bad.
Speaker 4: But that was the only point I have against him
and that sucks because that's the most emotional he gets
in the movie as Bruce.
Speaker 5: I don't mean interested in general.
Speaker 4: That is really I guess you could make it as
you made a good case for the ending sequence and
when he's narrating that. But you know, with Alfred, that's
a very personal moment, and yeah, it didn't work the
best for me, So that was maybe my one con.
But yeah, I'm I'm really curious to see how the
character of Bruce is used in because this is set
is a trilogy, they confirm.
Speaker 1: And he might pop up in some of these TV
shows they've said. He's pretty much said he's he's like
the hemswereth where he's like, as long as they asked
me to play Batman, I want to play Batman. He's
he in these interviews, the lore, he's been shown out.
He's not just an actor. He's a guy that his
whole life he's been a Batman fan and some of
his inspirations are like, okay, he wants to do this,
So yeah, at least there's gonna be a couple more
movies down the pike.
Speaker 4: So so I'd be really curious to see how they
change the character of Bruce and if he opens up
more in like social settings, if he's actually gonna say stuff,
or if he's gonna continue to just walk around and
look at people and then keep walking and you do
get some other scenes where he confronts Falcone and stuff.
But I think that's what I'm curious for, because I
think the Batman as Batman, he's uh, you know, fox
up a lot, and we'll see him probably get more
and more masterful as the movies go on. But I
don't need like the Batman part of it, you know,
perfect ten out of ten. But the Bruce thing, I
want to see a little bit more in these in
these future ones. But I mean, this movie has got
so much going on that it's really a minor con
even if that seems like something that would be a
bigger issue.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's interesting because I am trying to keep
us on one track here. But what I'm really curious
about is when he does go in the public. This
is the first time they've done a long comic books.
This is I said a long time ago they're gonna
do and they did it. Of the waynes being dirty
or shady this time around, right, and now it's very interesting,
like what is this type of Bruce we'd have to do?
And absolutely terrible things came out about your flight, the
things that are just like, I don't know, he can't
be that, you know, fun loving guy. But I think
with that and with that Mayor kind of setting up
being like, oh, you don't do much, you don't come out,
I think he's gonna maybe realize that not only can
he change the city as like Batman being more hopeful,
he might have to realize like, Okay, as Bruce Wayne,
I'm gonna have to maybe do some things too instead
of I think that's what they're trying to do.
Speaker 4: But I think because like you said, the definitely puts
that thought in his head, like yes, he incepts it
way deep somewhere in there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, And I think it's it's like you said
that there's so much stuff where it's like even for me,
it's like a minor con for me. But I I
felt like I was surprised we didn't get one more
Elford scene after that hospital. You know, we just never
see Alford again. And it's fine because that's a good
resolution of that scene, but I was expecting to see
more any circus And I guess, Okay, no, he's just
he's just recovering from a bomb because luckily him and
Bruce really good at surviving explosions, like five feet away
from each other. You know like there's gonna felt like.
Speaker 2: Uh geez, where we talking about Bruce specifically.
Speaker 1: Anything those two characters are character.
Speaker 2: I am so pumped because I am overdue for a
haircut and I am transitioning now I am taking that
Bruce Wayne haircut. I'm going for it. I got the
length to work with. I got I got the length.
Look at that crazy how long it's actually been so Saturday.
Maybe for Gauntlet, you know, it might be a little
revealed there, we'll see. Man, this is such a different
Bruce Wayne than I I know, other than I guess
Year one, uh dirty gaming in the comments I think
made that comparison. Oh yeah, he did definitely where he's
just he's like a man on a mission, like he's
doing his own spec offs. It's not it's not Christian Bale,
you know, like going in with these models, just buying
hotels and just being very billionaire playboy. It was such
a different take, and I don't don't know if I
like one over the other. I think it's okay to
just say they're both amazing. This was so it was
just again so fitting for what the movie was. It
was very very dark. The tone was just like ominous
and depressing sort of, especially when when you find out
more about the Waynes. But I I just I I
I fell in love with this Bruce Wayne and I
saw him for like what you guys were just talking about.
Like I don't even know what the screen time was,
but it was very minimal. I think the first time
that I saw him like cleaned up, when he was
going to the public funeral for the mayor, it like
kind of shook me because I was just so used
to seeing him with like like the raccoon eyes. You know,
he's got like the black pain on his eyes. He
like his hair was just greasy and he just like,
oh yeah, Like I was feeling that while I was
watching him. Yeah, And I think that's what really really
pulled me in. And again that's shown really really early.
Like I think when he first goes back to the
bat Cave again, he's got like fighter tape on, he's
got bloody knuckles, he's just bruised and just dirty and ratty,
and Alfred is explaining that there's like accountants that need
to I don't know, I don't even remember what the
conversation there was, but it's just like he needs to
deal with business He's like, I just don't have time
with that, And it was again very fresh to see
like on like in a film, this type of Bruce Wayne.
I've never seen that before and it was this was
a man on a mission and it was it was amazing.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 2: I I'm just so fall in love with Robert Pattinson. Man,
I think, honestly, it's all. It all started from the lighthouse.
It's just been like an incline. I just fell in
love with him.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 1: For many girls in our generation, it's Twilight, but for.
Speaker 2: CURSI I never experienced Twilight. So there you go. I
completely missed that. Cedric didn't do it for me, But no,
he he is phenomenal and I am so pumped to
just see where he goes with this character and see
the evolution of Bruce Wayne and Batman because yeah, I'm
I'm like terrified of him in the suit and I'm
just so like, I'm like I'm like feeling bad for
him and like as Bruce Wayne, because he's just so
he's so recluse, like I feel like he he's so
he just doesn't have any friends, like at all, even
like comparing Bale's relationship with his Alfred to this Alfred
oh dynamic, like like it's not even real, Award, this
is really awkward, and and like like there's so many
moments in those in I'm totally just forgetting the actor's
name from the movies. Oh yeah, Michael Kaine, thank you.
Like I think also because that was a trilogy, so
I just had more time to really like get it,
grow attached to that character, Like I just saw him
as this father figure that he was for for Bruce
Wayne in those movies and this one, Like I love
Andy Serkis, but I just didn't have enough time to
grow attached there. I'm so glad that he lived because
I know I will get there with time, I I
would imagine so, but yeah, when that bomb went off,
I was I was more hurt that I might lose
the potential of getting more Andy Serkis to like really
grow in love with him, as opposed to like him
just being gone. So I didn't feel as emotionally invested
in that moment, like Travis s are saying, You're like
tearing up in that scene. I don't know if it
was because of possibly losing him or just like the
dialogue between the fun like it was dad.
Speaker 1: It was a comble of all of them. Because what
I like is like, when you're talking about how you
don't feel connected and he's Alfred, I think, yes, there
is not much green time. But I also think it's
like on purpose, you're not supposed to connect with him,
because this is the first time we've seen a Bruce
Wayne in the movies where he's actively not really wanting
to connect with Alfred her He's not really. It seems
like anytime Alfred helps him out, it's because Alfred goes
out of his way too. It's not like, oh, could
you do this for me? Oh like when he does
that code thing, it's just off the side, like look
what I did, And it's this thing of you know, oh,
you're not my father, and he's like, yeah, that's pretty
blainantly obvious. And I feel like Alfred in a way
is trying to just he's he's he feels bad that
Bruce got stuck with him, Like he feels like he
knows that he would not be a good father or
father figure, but it was up to Alfred to raise
this guy. And now when you see what he's become,
I think Alfred feels like he's done a pretty shit
job because this guy is emotionally detached. He's going out,
he's pretty much just on a suicide mission. So for me,
like when they finally connected there and there was just
a moment of the great and I guess it's just
him passing grabbing people's hands has got me that moment,
and I love the I didn't think i'd ever feel
feel fear in my life again until tonight. And that
was just whatever emotions, whatever conflicts they've had over these
past few years that he find can acknowledge like, okay
you are and point to me. I think I would
want more. And that's where, yeah, I am happy he
didn't get killed off, because if he did, I would
have felt like, man, like I like, that's a bummer.
Alfred has like fifty minutes of screen time and then
they just because that would have just been a well
we've got to motivate bam. And again, I still think
it's you know the fact that he survived that that's
very comic book key of like man, the Ridler sucks
with these bombs, like he can't take out any of
these way and people. But yeah, that's why I think
it worked for me as far as he was actively
pushing Elford away, and because the movie is from his
point of view, it's almost like we're like, yeah, like,
I don't know about Alfred. He's kind of you know,
he's he's fine and stuff, and but I don't think
they'll be hunky dory if we got a sequel too.
I think there's lots of uh. I think it's an
awkward road for them.
Speaker 3: So I just wanna say it's a bold play that
Alfred knowingly knew something was wrong with this package but
still opted to open it up.
Speaker 5: I feel like he.
Speaker 1: Wasn't like for Bruce Wayne's eyes only you know, yeah,
tell you what about you? You can talk about a
bit about Bruce Waye than Elfred if you want, because
I think alf for make come up again, but he's
not in it too much in this movie.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean Bruce Wayne and this was you
guys s a lot of great points. He's very different
from your Christian Bales Bruce Wayne just he's not flying, buoyant,
he's not putting out that persona. He's just a Bruce
Wayne that doesn't give a shit. He just was trying
to be you know, you guys talk about vengeance and
all that. And that's that's something I really liked about
his character because again, you guys already had mentioned this,
but he's putting out vengeance, he's using this method that
he thinks is the right way to attribute or accomplish
his goals. And then he sees that these this kind
of method is being enforced and used by all these
other people that are completely lunatics. And now he's realized, okay, like, hey,
I gotta I gotta be hope. And there's great symbolism
at the end when he's lighting that flare and he's
reaching his hand out, I'm like, and then it turns
and it's that above shot of just so walking. It's like,
this is hope. This is great what he's using right
now to be a symbol.
Speaker 1: And he's literally coming out of the shadows with that light,
you know, being a shadow.
Speaker 3: And another thing I was kind of surprised with too,
is with the other Batman that you see well Bruce,
Bruce Wayne, like the Christian Bales batman, he was probably
the more well, no, I can't I just say it,
like in terms of like screen time for all these Batman,
Like I feel like Ben Affleck's Batman, Like when we
were introduced to him, he was very secretive, like they
were like, oh god, he's he really out there, what's
going on? And then you have like the other Batman
I guess, like Michael Keaton, George Clooney, I'll kill mor
all that. So they're kind of a little bit more
prominent in the public, whereas Christian Bales Batman was much
more kind of hidden, I guess, kind of like recluse.
But this Batman, I feel like, was much more just
in you know, crowds of people. He was showing up
at the front of the iceberg. Yeah, he just would
walk around like yeah, he was much more like prominent,
like right in like groups of people. And I wasn't
expecting that. I was expecting him to be much more
kind of like you know, hidden in the shadows or whatever.
But I mean that's okay, It's not a takeaway for
me at all. It was just it was cool to see.
Speaker 4: I mean, the fact that he goes to a public
setting like twice in like two weeks, I think, is uh,
you know, that's that's not a lot.
Speaker 2: I think it's one week the entire film takes place
because it's like the first night November.
Speaker 5: Pumping on, like November fifteenth.
Speaker 1: Or something at one point, so I thought I heard fifth,
But yeah, either way, it's one of those fives. Maybe
it's the twenty four.
Speaker 2: I think it was six, not a five, but I
mean now we're all over the number.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I I really like that stuff. You know,
we have the decency to knock. And the Two Twins,
which those are kind of a tribute to these characters
that are like Tweedledumb and tweedled d They're like a
ripoff of Alice and Warnerland stuff. They they they're like,
that's I love. Like they are constantly giving little comic
book nudges or lore, which I'll point out in this
film that it's just that you don't have to like
these two characters. You don't have to make them something
from the comic books. But the fact that they are,
I guess it's like a nice little easter egg, like
sleen A one point says she's going to blood Haven.
They give like Falcone the origin that many times happens
of Bruce helping him out with surgery, like that's in
multiple comic books. The sleean of thing Also we'll talk
what his U or Thomas Thomas, sorry, Thomas helps him
out with the surgery. Also we'll talk about the Slena
big reveal and everything like that. But they're constantly putting
like little stuff in. But yeah, I really like that
club scene. I like and again I think it's smart
because I think there is a lot of talking with
a lot of DETECTIVESU. But they always sprinkle like even
a little bit of action in there, and then they
wait to give you like a big set piece, you know,
like when the Batmobile comes out. It's not like, oh,
it's a batmobile. It's like, no, you're gonna get fifty
minutes of this. But it's like, talk about a monster entrance.
The first time you get the batmobile, Oh my god.
The sound design, the look of it, the fact that
the engine it looks like like there's fire coming from
in the front. It looks like a beast. It's so
it's so good. It's I love everything about that.
Speaker 4: I had a couple more Batman notes maybe yeah, yeah,
stick with that adventure off. Uh so, I guess just
prepays for the listeners. I'm not a huge Batman guy.
It's been a few years since i've watched any of
the other movies. I haven't seen really many of them,
Like I haven't seen Heat or any of those older
older ones at all, and most the other ones, I've
just seen the movies once or maybe twice maximum, so
I don't have like such a you know, it's hard
for me to make as many comparisons to the other
ones as you guys can do. But I loved the
use of this kind of Year two Batman, and I like,
I just liked how weak he was at times, like
he really fucked up. Like even like first fight scene.
Obviously he declaredly wins, of course, but you know, he
takes some bullet shots and obviously it's like he's got
his armor or whatnot. But when he gets back home,
he's just like all scratched up. He's just bleeding like crazy.
He just often is like getting messed up in fights
in certain ways. And there's even some times that you know,
most of the time, I feel like when Batman, like
there's always like a plan that was in place, you know,
he always has all these contingencies. That's not the case here,
Like he gets caught by the police after that bomb
goes off, and oh, ye, there's no reason they don't
take the mask off, Like it is just coincidence that
the guy turned around at the right time and they
didn't take that mask off and do this whole reveal.
There's no plan he had there, Like he just fucked
up and he almost got caught and just coincidence saved
him there. And then I don't know if we want
to talk about the ending, the whole ending battle yet,
but like he was dead Purequinston.
Speaker 5: He is alive. He was completely dead. He had fucked up,
he lost, and.
Speaker 4: Then the Elextecute coincidents and that that guy was sending
in with a gun for like twenty seconds he gave.
Speaker 5: He gave so much time for Catwoman to save him.
Speaker 1: But I like that.
Speaker 5: I like that he's a fallible character.
Speaker 4: Another also when he's on when he escapes the police station,
he's up on the roof and he hesitates, he's like
scared to jump off. That was great, and then obviously
he fucks up the landing so bad, And I love that.
I love seeing Batman who just isn't this perfect machine,
who's like a walking heist mission where there was always oh,
I had some secret backup plan.
Speaker 5: I like to see him get fucked up.
Speaker 4: And I mean, coincidence is not great, but I still
I think it's used well here because I least set
up these things reasons why these characters come to save
the day for him.
Speaker 5: But I personally love that that version of.
Speaker 1: Well and I think what it does though, it helps
the supporting characters feel noteworthy and important too, because my
head can is like, the reason they don't take the
mask off in the prison is just because Gordon's there.
If Gordon's not there, this guy's unmasked right away. But
you see them all the time. He's pulling people back,
he's telling them to give him a second. And same
thing with Selea. That's why you have watched some of
those older movies. But like Commissioner Gordon in the Keyn era,
he's a nothing. The cops are just there to call
Batman be like we can't handle this polease come in
like they don't do anything, you know. And that's thing
with that Selena making the big save, it's her having
a moment. It's her showing that Okay, it's not just
Batman always saving the day, it is you kind of need.
And I think this will hopefully help him out too.
I think it already do with Gordon. He can't do
this alone, you know, you can't take on this whole city.
So I think not only it shows that he's still
just like a rookie, it feels very much like Netflix
Daredevil too, like there's so much time he would just
get beat up, he'd still come up on top, but
he's gonna walk away with bruises. But I think it
just also adds to everyone else, like, Okay, Gordon is
helpful here clean his helpful. It's not like, oh, Batman
could have just done this on his own and see
it later. And that's why I don't know for over again.
In the com books, that's why I'm a big fan
of they called the bat family where he has back
girl and he has Robin, because it is like a
unit of people that he has to help him out.
And that's why, like there's like a little mini unit
here of Alfred, Gordon and background and whatnot. Taylor Field,
you had your hand up about this topic.
Speaker 3: I imagine, Uh you mentioned Dylan when he was like
I guess at the top of that roof, and he
just like takes in a second like oh shit, like
I'm up high. I like that scene a lot too,
specifically because got hair in my mouth. Cat hair, Yeah,
cat Man, Catman.
Speaker 1: Catman is a DC character. You know, Dylan is right
on that one.
Speaker 3: But it was so cool to see him whip out
the Squirrels suit instead of like the usual standard.
Speaker 1: Like, oh yeah, that was cool. I really like that.
Speaker 3: And I didn't. I've seen like like soldiers jump out
of like you know, sky having with the scroll suits
that they popped the parachute. I didn't think he was
gonna pull that out. And when he did it under
that overpass, fuck, I felt like his pain, like as
he just smashed and just went into the dumpster on
the street. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, he's gonna make a clean landing right
on top of that bus.
Speaker 1: Concussions caught, and man, there's something about it. It's probably
just for me as a kid. I love anytime the
Batman suit loses the cape and you just see like
the body because it's like something you don't rarely see.
So when he's just walk and I love to like
he limps away like he is like if he doesn't
have his vehicle, I don't know if he's getting back home,
you know, like he hit he hit the lamp, he
hit the bus, and then he like rolled like he
he was not doing well after that scenario, but it
was so cool. And I really like all the gadgets
he had in this movie too, because they were comic
bookie but realistic and things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got a couple of things to add on
for sure. I just quickly wanted to mention what was
talking about, how like like he wasn't just a man
with the perfect plan. And if I'm thinking like Bail,
there's times that he gets like stabbed and it's like
a big deal. It's like, Okay, he's injured, and then
he gets he gets away and he's like he's kind
of dealing with that injury. But like I remember, I
think it was the first one, the first comic that
we read, which was Year one with the same Year one. Yeah,
I'm mixed. I'm mixing them all up now, but like
I was just so surprised. I'm like, basically page two,
he just gets like shot, he's bleeding, and he's just
like constantly getting his ass kicked, you know, like like
like he's he's making it, but like he's showing damage
where I feel like if I watched the Dark the
Dark Night trilogy, their majority of the time he gets
away pretty pretty cleanly. He's pretty pretty good at a sham. Yeah,
and then like you see him doing push ups the
next day. Okay, he's got bruises, But like here, I
don't think there's a moment where like Pattinson looks clean
and like I am at one hundred and ten percent
prime ready to go, I can tick on it. Like
he has no days off, he has no time to recover,
Like he always just looks damaged and yeah, every fight,
it's not like he just parries everyone perfectly, Like he
gets smacked in the back of the head, quick recovery,
because yeah, he's a master at martial arts and.
Speaker 1: Armor.
Speaker 2: And then that transitions to the other thing I wanted
to point out is just like his gadgets and stuff.
And this is another good comparison with with with the
Bail trilogy of like because that is an origin, Like
you see him and Alfred like researching like where to
get these products him with oh my gosh, what's Morgan
Freeman's character's name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Like going over the technology, like this is why the
Cape will like like flex so you can actually like glide,
you know, like it's it's all explained so that when
it's very bond, you know, it's like he's he's in
qu this is what this guy.
Speaker 1: This bond so you can see it all in those
films there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I didn't know that. That's that's a fun
little fact there. But like in this, you don't know
what his gadgets do until he uses them, and like
there's so many gadgets that he pulls out, like in
the later half of the film where I was just
totally surprised on I. I love gadgets. They're so fun
to me. I feel like it's just something that I
fell in love with it as just like a kid
watching like those Bond movies, Spy kids all that shit.
So so like in here, whether he like pulls out
that the blade which is like his bat symbol, that
was so fun. He has like his adrenaline fucking bane
chemical believe that I love.
Speaker 1: That he has like a that and that's like fun
part where it's like Batman still by Nature's a planet
where he's made a little hole in his armor specifically
just so he could stab as adrenaline. So it's not
even like, Okay, I have this needle. I'm just stating
he's probably, well, I need a place to stab it.
It's just like a little compartment where he takes it
off is like okay, right here is where I could
stab And I was like, yeah, he's like oh, guys,
like exactly, And like even the smoke when he used
it the whole movie, I was like, does this dude
not have smoke bombs? Like that's a Batman go to
like And I feel like they're pretty easy. But I
like the look of the gadgets where they look high
tech but they're not. They don't look like they're a toy,
Like you couldn't mark them as a toy, you know,
like they don't look very and not to take a shot,
but lots of the MCU gadgets, it's like, oh, this
looks very tony, stark tech looks prime Like yeah, this
smoke bomb just looks like it's a little ball of smoke.
He has to stick it somewhere and that's it. It
lights up there you go. And I love that they
revealed them that way. Even the cape you guys talked about,
I was not expecting this just like pull across like
jumpsuit squirrel suit thing, and it was it was wild,
and I.
Speaker 2: Really really loved how it wasn't just like, okay, anytime
that I have to descend from a building and I'm
gonna just use my cape and then that's just my
my ability. Like he uses the squirrel suit once, he
can't just like redeploy it and like put it back in.
You know, it's a last last ditch, and especially after
how how badly he fucked it up. And then later
on when he's chasing Selena, like he doesn't just use
it again, like he like he has another gadget to
get down the building, right, Like he has that little
black widow device where he can just like run down
the building. And I just loved how different and like
just all the gadgets was. It was so great. It
was again a good change of pace of being like,
this is what this gadget does. So then later on
the film, viewer, you're gonna see this in action. It's
just like I was being surprised at his arsenal and
it was so fun.
Speaker 3: Travis, earlier you mentioned like that scene with the smoke
bomb and you guys were both elaborating on the armor aspect.
When he comes out of that smoke scene and he
ends up like beating up that last like Ridler copycat guy,
and he was on his back on the ground and
he's got that double barrel point blank range in his
fucking chest. He just tanks that double barrel shot like
holy shit, it did.
Speaker 1: But it definitely knocked the win out because he was
whole bruise. Like Selena kissed him, I don't think he
had any fucking idea of what was going. He's like,
it was just so funny. She like lays it on.
He's just like, yeah, okay, like let's do this. She's
like it's over, and he's just like he has no idea.
And that's why I love like it. He always holds
on enough so he won't die. But man, like the
next day he must have been. He must have been.
He was probably sitting the hospital right next to Alfred.
You know, he needed a cup of Joe. But let's
take our second ad break and we'll be back with
more Batman because we haven't even covered most of it,
so we'll be it right back. All right, we're back.
Is there anything specifically because I know he'll come up,
but anything specifically on Batman, Bruce, Wayne Gadget suit, anything
like this that you want to bring up, and I
will say for me, it's just the suit. Seeing this
the whole movie. I love the suit. I love it's
very arkhamished, but I loved how armor and plated it is.
I love the sleekness of it. It's probably my favorite
suit ad one's because all the ones I've had them
like tied, but there's just something about this one. It
just it just like like I said, the cow dude
just looks scarier too. It just looks meaner, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. Like I love how sleek
it is, but at the same time, it's bulky and
you can tell that it's armored, like like it's you know,
it's a movie, it's a movie about a superhero. But
I feel like I can still believe that he's just
tanking these bullets because he just looks like an armored titan,
like just just taking these shots and those.
Speaker 1: Steps really established like he's heavy. Dude, he's a tanker,
you know, he's a heavy load, like an elven ring.
His role is done. Probably can't be too fast, you know.
Speaker 2: Very much separates that character to Catwoman, you know, like
like completely opposite side of the spectrum where she basically
has no armor. It's just this like leather onesie that
she's wearing. And then I think, just one last thing
I wanted to mention on him, the Batman and his
suit and everything, and how bulky he seems. His fighting
style is so like just brutal and like, you know,
we saw that in the trailers, but to see it
like on the full length movie, I fucking loved all
the combat he did it. It seemed a lot more
believable than just like, oh, counter punch this guy in
the stomach. He's just out of it. Like this guy,
there'd be one one opponent and he would just hit
him like six times. I'm not even talking about the
part when he like takes the Baine juice like like
literally like in that opening scene, like he just absolutely
destroys these clown wannabes and it's so aggressive and it's
so just it's terrifying, you know, Like if I was
one of those villains and I'm just seeing my buddy
get absolutely beat on by this guy, yeah, I would
be fucking tail between the legs running for my life.
I loved the fight style, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to bring up because you brought that
up early. I did love in that fight scene. Though
he's constantly like people are hitting him with poles in
the back of the head while he's fighting, people are
like pulling his cape. It's not like a flaw. It's
like he can just take everyone out. There might be
a point if we get to a third movie where
he is like the prime Batman where he sat at
this moment, then sure, But I love this because it
felt like a It felt like a dirty fight scene.
It felt like it was realistic at that point, Like
it's not pretty. It's not like a dance, you know.
It's just like these guys are just trying to get
a hold of him. They don't know because he's whipping out.
He's like just destroying guys. But at the same point,
he's a giant bad as well, so there's a lot
of things going.
Speaker 2: On and he has that Marshall mastery. But I think
the fact that he just goes in, like through the
front door of the ice lounge or whatever combat that
he's entering, it ties in with what Bruce Wayne has
been saying like I don't care if I die, Like
I'm not scared of dying, like like he just like
the task is so much more than the value of
his life, at least from his point of view. I
think that'll be a big transition. I think we already
had that transition in this movie, just seeing the impact.
I mean, yeah, that dialogue that he had with Alfred,
like like just realizing that the special ones around him,
like that is what's scared like possibly losing those people,
or is what scares him more so than losing his
life because the start of movie, he was a man
on a mission. He wasn't valuing his life like like
he he just had to get the task done. It
doesn't matter if I'm bleeding, it doesn't matter if I
get shot. Like that is just second to being the Batman,
and it shows in his combat style because he doesn't
care if he takes a fucking chair over the head
or wherever the hell happens to him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you guys mentioned Alfred.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to quickly throw some more praise on
it because he definitely gets sidelined by like all the
hundred other characters that they're introducing in this but I
think Andy Serkis is just such an underrated actor in general.
I think it makes sense in a way because his
most iconic characters are CGI, so you don't think of
him as readily. But he's an amazing actor. And you know,
I watched A Black Panther recently even just like the
amount of like the range he has from that absolutely
over the top performance to this. Even though he doesn't
have much much screen time in this, I loved every
scene with him. I think he just had so much
empathy to him and in that hospital scene, I I
loved his half of that performance.
Speaker 5: It was it was the other side that didn't do
it for me.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I don't think I have too many details
to pick out necessarily, but I just love the little details.
He's like, yeah, I got some blueberries for you, or
I like that he's like he's in the back cave.
He's running some of these riddles too, he's figure and stuff. Yeah,
as you mentioned, so yeah, shout outs to Alfred and
and you know, it's funny. Andy Serkis was obviously a
big part of Matt Reeves the Planet of the Apes trilogy,
so it's it's fun that they're kind of a duo,
an unlikely duo in a way. So really really liked
Alfred and I'm glad as well that he is not
dead and we're gonna see more of him in the
movies to come.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Taylor, you never mentioned on Alfred anything to say
on you liking the interpretation, not like you and etcetera.
Speaker 3: I think he was great. I kept seeing.
Speaker 2: What was his name?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he has the beard.
Speaker 3: It's the beard. Yeah, but no, I think he was great.
Speaker 1: I really liked how.
Speaker 3: Okay, just the different interpretation. I'm I'm I'm used to
seeing like the much older Alfred, you know, like Michael
Keaton's and Michael Caine and even like Jeremy Irons even
felt like he was like an older one, but he
felt like much more hands on, like engineer kind of
like Alfred, whereas this one just felt different. And I'm
so happy that we can have you know, it's the
same characters, but has done so differently, which is great.
And I just felt like, yeah, he's just an old
you know, house Spler, just doing like his crosswords or something,
doing these these riddler puzzles. So it's great.
Speaker 1: What should we you know? Actually, I want to I
want to talk about Riddler because I think there's a
few more Batman things that I want to mention, but
I think they'd probably be better for talking about him.
Speaker 2: Uh I.
Speaker 1: Paul Danel was a great actor. He's like, don't just
talk about Anny Circus with Range. You just look at
this guy. You think of things like ruby sparks, you
think of Swiss Army man prisoners like this guy. He
is so good. But this role just felt like because
I remember and I was so against it when it
was the rumors of Jonah Hill being the Riddler, and man,
I'm so happy we got Paul Danel, But it was
a role that the second you saw it's like, man,
I don't think any and the people what But this
just felt perfect for Paul Dano. He did such a
good job with it. I loved the mystery of it,
and we had summer theories about the Waynes and whatnot.
But how it was, how the unsolving of the mystery,
the clues, the riddles, the kind of jigsaw like traps
out again what I've talked about, fears, I've always won,
I always dreamed by. I remember being in the Saw
forums being like, man, I wish we could do like
The Riddler like this, and that's what this was as
close as they could because it was PG. Thirteen. But
still they had this ominous feel. And yeah, I loved everything,
but and what I appreciated was in the trailers they
had a lot of his dialogue, but they didn't show
how like flamboyant he was gonna be and how very active,
which kind of keeps with like the Riddler. If you
look at Ridler and comic books, he has a bowling
cup hat, he has the jacket that has been He's
very out there, right, He's very comic bookie. So that
was a good way of like he looks very different.
His motives are a bit more darker, but he was
very kind of just like with his followers, just very
like I said, almost flamboyant and had that kind of
comic booky feel, so that he had that. Unfortunately, like
the whole thing with his followers and social media. If
this would have came out ten years ago, I'd be like,
you know, and I don't know if I buy this,
I don't think it's gonna happen. Since like the past
six years, I absolutely believe this stuff would happen. If
this guy having this cult that's gonna go and like
be doubles for him and that's an unfortunate thing. But
I just performance why. Story Wise, I loved everything of this,
like Zodiac Killer seven sort of feel of who the
Riddler is, and he doesn't have that much screen time really,
but you feel it every time he's on there.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I thought I thought it was just a
great job of him slowly kind of unfurling, and you're
getting to see more and more as he's kind of
losing it or I feel like he just gets more
and more comfortable as the plan kind of goes along
day by day and it's going better. And yeah, by
the time you finally see him and he's decided that
his plan is worked and he takes the mask off
and he's just fully lost it at that point, it's
such an I really have no reference for Riddler, like
maybe he was in like the Adam West Batman movie
that I was very different, Yeah, exactly, And I haven't
seen was Jim Carrey played him right?
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, I don't worry about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I really don't know much about the character.
Speaker 4: I understand the concept obviously, say it's pretty straightforward but
they used it so well here in terms of just
making his outfit something that's kind of more grounded and realistic.
Uh and uh, yeah, I thought the performance was amazing.
Most of the performance he's behind a mass. You're not
really getting to see much other than maybe some eye
acting one skin, but then it's like I acting, that's
like behind like someone watching it on their iPad, so
you don't see it super close up. But just the
way he highlights certain words, or he'll just like hang
on one syllable for like five years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a choice, but because you never know
how he's gonna speak, like especially in derogation things, some
things he was getting so animated.
Speaker 5: Was like that.
Speaker 1: That's why I like that they kind of did play
up that, you know, he might be he's very smart,
but he still might be a kind of mentally ill figure.
Like there's many moments where when he's breaking down or
he thinks his plan is not going well, you see
him absolutely just lose it. He's like punching the prison stele,
he's crying. So yeah, I love that they showed these
different shades of him throughout the movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. And what else I did live stream stuff.
I think it's believable and work. I think they that
was a bit cheesy the way they did it where
I don't know, this is very like nitpicky thing, but
like when they're showing his stream and it's like the
viewer count is going up and like the likes are
going up, but it's just linear, like it's just like
the number just is going up. It's not like, oh,
one hundred viewers, and then like you know, it just
it just I don't know, maybe they could have done
a little bit refining to make it feel little bit
more realistic, but I thought it it worked. And then
you know, to justify where all these goons come from
at the end, I think is good. And obviously that
line you mentioned it is nice. I guess I was
just wondering, So, Taylor and Kirkland in the have you
guys read any like Riddler in the comics or is
this in the one you guys read recently?
Speaker 5: Was there Riddler will be?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I guess a question for Taylor and Travis, because
I feel like one of the fun things with these
riddles is kind of you're kind of in it too.
You're trying to solve them. And figure out what he's
talking about. But Batman just solves him so quick that
I'm like, I have no time, so I'm wondering. Is
like in the comics, I'm sure that would be awesome
because you could like hang on a frame for a
while and just think about it, or you could go
back a page and get some clues or something. So
I feel like maybe that's more fun in a comic
book setting. I think it's done well in this movie,
of course, but I felt like I'm not smart enough
to kind of come up and feel like I was
clever enough to think of these solutions at the time.
But I don't know, is that is that something in
the comics you guys do or like think about these
riddles or do you just keep going and don't slow
down to I try.
Speaker 1: A bit, but I feel like I'm one of the
worst people with riddles. The second I hear I'm like, damn,
I should have got that. But I would say in
the comics it's more of a mix up. You'll get
those ins and gratifications of riddle revealing the answer of
Batman figuring out or you'll get like lots of mystery.
Like I'm trying to find out this one other than
the el rode or whatever, the rat was the pigeon
with wings that was the only one that like Batman
couldn't figure on took well right everything else. He is
a riddle machine. This guy is built for like you
can't so, yeah, so I think that you could have
had a few more hang on there. But I think
I guess they're just trying to I guess put out
there that you know, he's his superior as far as
like being intellect on. But yeah, definitely in comics, I'd
say there's a mix of the instant gratifications to hey,
this is gonna take a little while, I gotta figure
it out.
Speaker 3: Jim Carrey's riddler, he puts out some riddles that Bruce
Wayne just wasn't able to figure out until later on.
So you get to really stew on those ones for
a while.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of riddles in Arkham Asylum too.
Speaker 1: Yes, lots of Yeah, this Batman would be great at
those trophies.
Speaker 2: He get them all, you know, yeah, very quickly. Yeah,
I was just gonna bring up like you know, say
what you will, but performs from Jim Carrey, I think
something that is still really good from that movie is
it's the real aspect of it though, Like honestly, and
and that's that's such a fun part for to have
with a villain like you mentioned, like the Zodiac Killer
and stuff like that, and this without the over the
top cartoony and Jim Carrey performs with the Riddler, it
was a very more realistic, grounded, like just terrifying psychopath
because yeah, he's very meticulous with all of his riddles.
There's a point where I think it was Gordon that
mentioned like, oh, did he make a mistake? Batman replied,
like he hasn't made a mistake up to this point,
like everything is very structured and planned, and he seems
like he just is the man with the plan. And
then when it's revealed later on that like Batman missed
a step and then like he literally just loses like
it like he just like a wire short circuits in
his brain, Like.
Speaker 5: It's not going the way it was supposed to.
Speaker 2: He's just like freaking out. And like that's really late
in the movie. Honestly, up until that point, like he
was just so terrifying, like through his live streams and
stuff like that. But still like he was the mastermind.
And I think I think that idea of just playing
with puzzles is just very appealing. Definitely for me. It's
it's something that just makes the character of the Realler
very very intriguing to me. Is just he's he's this
very very smart riddler. Yeah, and then you have like
the greatest detective of all time, the Batman, kind of
being the counterpart and like being the one that can
kind of unravel these these riddles. And I think as
a kid, that's what really really made me like that
movie has an aged the best. You know, I like
it more for the memes, but but but still the
character of the Ridler has always been very very interesting
to me. Probably too, I'm just not good at riddles,
so like seeing the Batman just dissect them, it's like, oh, yeah,
I could have figured that out if I was Batman.
But for the For Paul Dano, first off, I I
love Paul Dano. I I feel like he's he's one
of those people that he does like on the surface,
he's he's not intimidating, so like I I remember, uh
when he got castid as the Riddler, it was just
one of those head scratchy things. And then and then
we were seeing like like the zipper mouth image. That's
literally why my name is called that, because he just
looked like one of those dominatrix suits. Like seeing the movie,
I'm like, oh, it's not a zipper mouth. It's more
of like a vel girl mouth. But I'm gonna keep it.
I'm gonna keep zipper mouth because it's fun.
Speaker 5: He can breathe through it.
Speaker 2: He can breathe through it. But I I love Paul Dano.
I think my first thing I saw him in was
Little Miss Sunshine, if I remember quickly, he's in that one.
Speaker 1: And he was one of those those guys actors for
a very long time of like, oh I've seen him.
I don't know his name, but I've seen him in stuff.
Speaker 2: Percent and then this, this is such a great just
movie for him to be a part of because you
really get to see his range because he's terrifying behind
the mask and like doing the riddles and like literally
having victims in these like saw like traps. And then
when he takes off the mask and he's at the diner,
he okay, little tweeby looking, but he's still freaky. Honestly,
like just the way that they capture him and the
way he laughs.
Speaker 4: That's such a subversion of expectations as well, at least
for me. You didn't see any trailers, Like I love
that he's just I know who Paul Dano is. Obviously
can have some expectation, but I love that he was
a little dewep, but he does he does that little smirk,
you know, he has all these IDs like you tell
me that, he just does this like crazy.
Speaker 1: Well, and that was a good thing too, Like in
the trailers they hid his face and never showed it,
and I was I was like, oh, is he gonna
be scarred is something? And no, it's just no, he's
just a regular Like he's maybe a little tweedy, some
like scary, but like he's just a regular looking guy.
There's no huge defining feature where it's like, oh, the Riddler,
look he has this huge thing on his face. He's like, no,
it's just he could be walking in the crowd. He
walk right by him, right, So I like that, And
that's very sevenish. When they reveal who the killer is
in seven, it's just like, oh, it's just normal dude
for the most part, you know.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was gonna bring up how we made
a big point or they made a big point of
hiding him in the trailers, and it made that reveal
very interesting because the whole movie, I'm like, I know
we're gonna see his face. I know we're gonna see
his face. So then when when it turned out just
be Paul Daniel, I wasn't disappointed or anything. I'm just like,
this is almost scarier because he is just a regular
looking dude.
Speaker 4: Did you guys sill have the impression that he was
the main villain of this from the trailers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they kind of had that going on. They
had showed Penguin and catwomen and other thugs went up,
but he it was always about like what is Riddler's
game and he's terrorizing the city and stuff like that.
So but I feel like in the film you kind
of go like there's sections of like Penguins, the main guy,
falcone Es the main guy, and Riddler, and that's whey.
I love. It's like very comic booky as far as
like Long Halloween, It's like that has multiple characters and villains.
It's like that where Riddler is one of the main threats,
but there's so much of these like little side threats
happening in side stories where they're trying to deal with Riddler,
but you have penguins stirring up shit. You have Bruce
in the middle maybe discovering who actually killed his parents,
which I absolutely love that they did not answer. Could
have been Maroni, he could have been Falcon or even
Alfred says, could have just been some thug and that
it has been bugging me this whole time that I
can't figure it out. So I love that in the
middle of Riddler is the main villain, but it feels
almost video gaming too in the main sense, like yeah,
he's the main boss you're gonna get to, but here's
all the side stuff you gotta do on the way.
And I absolutely love that because right when you think
things are turned around, Nope, Rytha's gonna and you got
him caught. No, He's gonna flood the city and it's
And I love that he pulled it off like Batman,
Like he didn't even save the day, He just like
make the casualty count go from lesser than than what
it would have been. But I love that. Lots of
times we'll have Hey, Kirkland, I'm the Bagguy, I'm gonna
do this thing, and then Kirking goes and stops it
completely and nothing ever happened where this was no these
bombs went off, and like I was looking, I was like, Okay,
when the first damn breaks, are they gonna show a
bunch of people like just miss it? And no, they
should wat engulf a bunch of people. So it's like
hundreds of people. So that's this thing of like, yeah,
sure Batman definitely helped save some lives and Gordon Selena,
but Riddler like he was mad that he did. His
full plan didn't work, but still his damage to Gotham
is like gonna be everlasting. Like the whole movie ended
on like we're we're we don't know what's gonna happen next,
We're waiting for the National Guard. Everything is flooded. So
it's like, if we get a sequel, I feel like
it's the vilm will actually hit what his plan was.
We'll have some damage going forward. It's not just oh,
Batman right away, boom boom, got it done and we
move on to the next guy.
Speaker 2: You know, that was a very big thing. By the
end of this movie, is it wasn't just sunshine rainbows
like it was a very damaged like a lot of casualties.
There's a lot of death that happened from this, and
it wasn't everybody like, oh yeah, we're better now, like
at the end of this movie. It's a big resolution,
like like even just Batman and Erring at the end,
like like the city's flooded, the state of emergency, there's
martial law like in place like it is. It is
really bad, Like I cannot wait to see the next
chapter in this story right to see this damage Gotham
hopefully making strides in the in the right direction, and
there's a lot of hope by the end of it.
But still, like Batman's saying, like crime is just going up,
like you know, there's a power vacuum. You see the
you see penguins licking his lips ready to put his
little his flippers on. Well on Falcon's crime syndicate that
he's gonna be taken over.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if they're going this route. But
with the ending of that and with the dialogue, one
of my favorite Batman's story is called Batman No Man's Land.
The difference is Earthquake hit Gotham and the city gets
like broken apart and gets separated, and it gets to
the point where like Penguin has his territory and Black
Mask has his territory, and they're like little like towns
within Gotham, but it's like you don't go there because
that's Choker's side of town or that's that. And I
feel like that's what they're kind of setting up of
like the villains that I left are gonna start taking
over Gotham. Like, yeah, once they get the city back.
You know, this is Penguin's section here, like when he
was literally looking on that to me would be fascinating.
And I think they set it up in a very
natural way. And yeah it was again it had stakes.
Riddler's plan had steaks, and unfortunately Batman couldn't figure it
out in time. You know, Oh go on.
Speaker 4: So I have a couple of Riddler questions. So one
because I I just I guess I just missed this.
But how does Ridler know that Batman and Bruce are
the same person.
Speaker 1: I don't think he does know.
Speaker 3: I think I think I never got that like he
insinuated it, I think a little bit.
Speaker 5: But outright.
Speaker 1: It was a fake out. It was a fake out.
They they edited that way because then after he refers
to Bruce in the third person of oh, we didn't
get him. And also if because I was talking about
those family because at first I thought they were making
as like ambiguous that you could decide. But if you
look at Ridler's plan and if he was successful and
would have killed Bruce Wayne, his whole plan would have
went to shit because he would have been leaving all
these riddles for Batman and not coming. So I don't
think he did put that together because he needed Batman
to get Falcone. Right, if he kills Bruce Wayne, that's
not gonna happen. So I think they edited that way
to make it seem like he knew. But then he
said a line that shaid, okay, he you know. It's
funny because he says, Batman, oh, you're not as smart
as you think, when literally he hasn't figured out. So
I think they were trying to do it like a
fake out that he knows but he really didn't know.
Speaker 2: I was completely like in Dylan's train of thought here
by the end of the movie, I'm like, that's like
a hole in the movie that they just didn't even
talk about how everybody just knows as Bruce Wayne, because
he basically was speaking on camera, you know, to the
Arkham people that it's like you and Bruce Wayne. He
keeps saying his name, and but I completely misad that situation.
Luckily I had a buddy with me that completely explained it.
I'm like, oh, okay, I definitely miss that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll have to rewatch that because I came away
with a completely different conclusion. And then, yeah, my question
was gonna be like with the camera, I was like, well,
if he reveals it, then whoever wouldn't they know as well?
Speaker 5: But I guess if he doesn't say it then.
Speaker 2: That's also why I really thought that way, because it's
almost like they made a point of emphasis of like
there is Pattinson like look at the camera when he
just keeps saying Bruce Wayne, and then it shows like
the camera recording, and then that's where I'm like, Okay,
this is like the end of Batman. And then even
before he goes to Arkham, he says that line like
this might be the end of Batman. There's like his
his wall of I don't know what the fuck you'd
call it. As master plan Wall. Yeah, there's like a
photo of Bruce Wayne and then it's like, I know
the real truth. So it was a lot of push
in that direction. I think I was just kind of
connecting dots that I guess weren't there, but I thought
we're there. I thought it was pretty clear, you know,
like if I was a cop there, I would have
been like, is Bruce Wayne Batman? I don't know. The
cops are aren't the smartest in this in this universe.
Speaker 1: But that's why I love that. Yeah, he was bringing
up Bruce Wayne because that was like his motivation, and
that was like, I really love Riddler's origin. We had
talked about this before. I like the orphanage and going
to shit and stuff, but man, I love he just
took Batman to town in this conversation with two things.
One of him being referred to as an an Orphan's like,
you've no idea what an actual orphan is, so like
takes down Batman. But also it touched upon which I
think we'll get more and the movies have really never
Batman begins hint at this a little bit when Riddler's like, oh,
the only reason I'm doing this is because I saw
what you were doing, and you inspired me. And that's
always this great dynamic with Batman is are the villains
there because they just were born and that's to happen,
or are they cause an effect because Batman started what
he's doing and now in a response, times have gone
crazier and even says in the past two years when
he's been Batman, crime's gone up. So I love that
because Batman's just saying, you're crazy. You don't know what
you're talking about. But he had really no argument for
Riddler because he's just like, oh, I saw you were doing,
you know, your vengeance. We're doing this together. I thought
you would be completely on board. And I love that
you have this guy saying and he is mentally ill,
so you could make the case that no matter what
he was gonna see, eventually he would have been inspired
to do this. But as of right now, I say no, Like,
once I saw you as a dress as a bad
I decided, oh yeah, I'm gonna do this too, and
that would be that would that's gonna weigh heavily on
our character, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that was another thing that was confusing me.
Maybe Dylan two of like when he was explaining, like
you inspired me, and then he's explaining that like you
have no idea what an orphan is, and then he's
talking about Bruce Wayne. So I'm like, Okay, well he's
talking to the orphan Bruce Wayne right now that he
has no idea what he's doing, Like like the trials
and tribulations that Paul Dano went through.
Speaker 5: Maybe that scene people who see it maybe a different conclusion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did you think of Paul Daniel's Riddler? They
went with the Edward Nash in persona this time, So,
I I.
Speaker 3: Mean, I I love this iteration of Readler. I thought
it was fantastic. It was scary serial killer, like a
rite from the introduction like we talked about earlier where
he's flashing and he's just behind the the mayor, Like
it's just absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 1: And the sounds he makes when he attacks him, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Just freaking breathing. Pal, I'm the guy. But my interpretation
of that that jail sequence was he I almost feel
like he was putting it out there, saying, Bruce Wayne
to see and maybe he had his inkling that you know,
Bruce Wayne could be Batman. I don't know, but because
you'll make a good point with that plan that he
had Travis, if he kills Bruce Wayne and Batman doesn't
execute the rest of the plan. But I feel like
he was saying it just to see what would happen,
you get a rise out of him or something, because
he was saying it in an ah an instigating sort
of way. But you know, nothing happened and came out
of it. So I think he just kind of simmered
down on that because he didn't get a rise out
of Batman.
Speaker 1: And that's what I was wondering too, if they were
and maybe they'll talk about this after if they had
at first when I thought about more when oh, he
doesn't know. But the very first time I thought about it,
I was thought they were trying to leave it ambiguous
for the viewer to decide of like he knows or
doesn't know, because he says the line after when he's like, like,
this mask that I wear is really who I am.
The mask you wear is really who you is. So
it almost was in situate even if he knows he's
Bruce Wayne, he doesn't really care because he's more interested
in the Batman side, because that's who the guy is,
so I think there is some wiggle room there if
they wanted to play at that in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Another thing too. You mentioned this earlier on Kirklin
about how he's just so unstable when the plan doesn't
go accordingly. There was a moment and this is this
is my interpretation of this scene when the DA was like, hey,
you know, talking to Selena Kyle like my riyes are
over there, you can come with me, and we get
that cut to him obviously in the car watching this unfold,
and that brief moment where Selena Kyle is like just
kind of like standing there looking and obviously Paul down
knows what the DA is saying to her. I just
feel like you get a brief moment of panic from
the Riddler's point of view here thinking like like shit,
if she comes in, this is gonna be on my planet.
And I really like that moment because you to me,
I could feel the instability kind of building up in
the car and then she just goes off and then
things kind of resumed to normal. So plan goes back accordingly.
Speaker 1: And what I loved about Riddler is like me and
amily avery big failings. I know many people are if
you watch any like True Crime Dogs, it felt like
they were trying to make Riddler as close as to that,
like anytime he was on screen like those possible. I
loved his apartment when we actually got into it. I
love the twist that he bought a place like just
across the street from the Iceberg Lounge. That is something
and somethingple like, oh that might be for a fetched
you watch some of the sero kills, like that's the
type of stuff they do, Like that's the things where
they have these elaborate plans and everything and they have
these and also end up getting caught. But still when
you look into you like Man the Lakes they went
to go to not get caught. And I just love
that his whole life literally was building to this point
and he was just across the way and when that
sniper goes off, and I love that just kind of
like what dealing with some of the subversion of expectations
he escapes, whereas yeah, he's just having some coffee, making
a little Riddle coffee or tea whatever he was gonna have.
So I loved that twist that he was he was
there the whole time, like right underneath their nose. Pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I was gonna bring this up earlier,
and then I think we jumped into just the Batman
talk of like the location of the ice the ice Lounge,
Iceberg Iceberg Lounge. It was such a fun location to
go to. I didn't feel like it's like, oh, we're
back here again, because it felt quite expanse, especially when
it was revealed that there's like the forty four below,
Like I had the club within the club, and we
kept going back there, and I love that we kept
going back there, you know, Like the first time that
Batman shows up completely blew my mind. That he was
just knocking on the front door. That was very surprising
for me. I feel like that just isn't the way
that I'm used to him him going about. But I
loved it. He just kicked the shit out of everyone
so so great. And then by the end it's revealed
that like that's literally where Ruler was the whole time.
It completely makes sense how he was able to just
get into the DA's car, you know right away. And
I must say too, that scene when the DA very
creepy man like trying to get needed to like go
in his car with him, and then it goes to
like the point of view of the Riddler in his car,
just again that heavy breathing, just waiting, like just waiting
for his car is all fogged up because he's free
so much, so ominous, so terrifying. He was a very
very scary threat for a guy that I feel like, like,
I don't know, yeah, no exactly. Yeah, Yeah, he's not bane,
you know, like the normal guy can't take on Baine.
Speaker 1: Normal guy get that adrenaline, you know thing. I imagine
that he's just like just baned up. Yeah, that's what
I love. Tune the credits, they actually they had the
song that was playing and then they had that same
song sung by Paul Dannel, like it was two separate tracks.
So it's so funny that Yeah, and I love that
that theme was Like even the way the movie opened
with the credits is just it was silence and then
it was the opera mus I can't remember the actual
name of it, but it's a popular one. But I
love that that come that kept coming back. I love
that I kind of we talked about this before, but
the Batman theme feels very much like James Bond, where
it would be throughout the movie but then different versions,
a piano version of violin version, a really like heavy
one and the batmanobile one a quieter one. And even
they did that with Selena's theme too, of like they
kept using the themes in different scenes but for kind
of different twists on them. And I loved all that.
And Riddler had a nice little theme too, And yeah,
it was great and I can't wait to see I'm interested.
They kept him alive and that's what's interesting to see,
and we'll talk about the other stuff after. But I
like that. I like that. Obviously we'll talk about more
of Selena. But as somebody that had his problems with
BVS and the storytelling, I'm happy that we had a
Batman literally, you know, he literally says no guns. I
love Gordon's lineup. That's your thing, man, not mine. And
then he established the killing rule again where I knows
that's not what I do. Like there's a line and
I'm not gonna cross it. And that was great, and
there was only like a little of that with Selena.
I think they're gonna expand on that more. But I
love that that setting. The Batman that I prefer has
these rules because it makes it more interesting of a
story that he's trying to save the city, but he's
in this box of trying to keep his like personal
demons in a bottle, you know. And I actually thought
he was gonna kill that guy when he got the adrenaline.
I'm like, oh no, he's he's going to cross the
line right now.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I thought that was going to
be a really big moment moving forward. Like that really
haunts him is that he actually like takes a life there,
especially just with how distraught he was about the possibility
of his dad not even killing a guy directly, but
being indirectly like the result of someone dying. That really
really stuck with him. So I thought that he just
squished this guy's face by all these Maine punches there.
I'm glad it didn't, you know, because the going forward,
but there's potential for some some really big character stuff there.
But still I'm glad the way it ended, like him
holding the hand of that that girl being hell he
lifted away like it was a really nice, heartwarming moment.
Even though like the city's literally a war zone, like
it's flooded, it's so many people died, it's so tragic.
Speaker 1: But just on the roof this Nason Square Garden look
alike building, you know, just like well the show we're
living for the next week Square Garden. It was like, yeah,
all right, a little tongue and she like, come on,
no no one else saw about this, like come on,
we can't get any better name.
Speaker 2: But and quickly before I forget, just like how he
he basically like saved Selena of like preventing her from
killing someone. I thought that was so so great. I
really thought that she was gonna just end Falcone in
that moment and then the lights go off, you know,
plump people would be like, how does she miss that shot?
She was aiming at him? I feel like it's so
easy to miss a shot like that, especially when the
lights just go out, you kind of like jump. Easy
to miss there. But I'm I'm glad he was able
to stop her from doing that.
Speaker 1: And twice too, Falcon and the guy I remember she
could kick out the building. And I love the sess
of use that he did this multiple times where he
would just backgrapple guy's leg like not like their foot,
like he'd like send it through a calf and stuff,
and like that. Sabam and I like, like, I don't
want him kill a guy, but he could definitely. Like
there's gonna be some hospital bills like all this guy
shot a backgrapple through my Yeah, well we're gonna have
to amputate your legs or you were in that water
all day? Oh fuck, Like I guess I'm not a
cris Yeah, Batman, you killed, Batman kills, Friddlergoon and stuff
like that. The American Yeah, yeah, you think it's bad
in America. Look at the Gotham bills. That's the first
thing I thought though. In the mayor when he does
the whole light up thing and the mayor was shot
and she's in that water, I'm like, man, you're gonna
get like this is gonna be infected this gun like yeah,
like I don't know if you're gonna survive. But it's funny,
like we brought the DA. It's kind of funny that,
oh gee, all of a sudden, Gotham doesn't have a
DA anymore. I wonder if a certain two faced guy
might get introduced, Like the second day I got killed,
it's like, well, like that that to me was a softball, Like, Okay,
we know what's coming here.
Speaker 2: And I like that.
Speaker 1: I like that, you know, we didn't say Harvey Dan
or anything, but that's that's the clear, Like here you go.
Speaker 2: It's funny too because when Selena was in the club
and I missed the name first, They're just like, oh,
that's the DA. I'm like, oh, here comes Harvey. Oh
definitely not come back. Yeah, just doing fucking lemon drops
whatever the hell they call that drug.
Speaker 1: But yeah, were they bird drops or there were someone
to do with a penguin? I thought, right, there was
some sort of possible something.
Speaker 2: I forget what it was.
Speaker 1: I just want to break because like I could forget
the just so much, but I did want to say
we tablas for I did like the mystery of the
Waynes being like shady. I liked the whole reveal that
Riddler is just revealing all this stuff in the news.
And I love Pattison's reaction to finding out that news
of man, like the way they like made Martha's name
Martha Arkham and like she got locked in a sign
And I'm some of that personally thinks Bruce Wayne is
a mentally ill person and it's fucking crazy. So it
almost is like kind of like fits like his bum
had mental problems and she went in this asylum and
it's like, this is the son of that. And I
love that even the whole thing with the reporter getting killed,
that's still ambiguous. Alfred says, hey, he didn't know that
was gonna happen. Then you have Falcon be like he
knew exactly what was gonna happen, And there's no straight answer.
It's up to you to decide, like which way. And
I love that each movie we've gone so far, the
Waynes have always just been this glowing hope of like,
oh they're the perfect people. This was no everyone's shady
and like Alfred, I loved just him saying like he
was not a bad person. He just got taken advantage
of in a very weak state, and he just cared
about his mother, not the campaign. But I loved everything
with the mystery. I loved everything with the orphanage, that
jump scare of just when they're in the hall and
some dude walks by and it's just a bunch of
tweakers though, but I was like fuck.
Speaker 2: Like fuck, it's out last, like literally yeah.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and everything with falconebe in the rat
if anyone seemed departed. That was one of my favorite movies,
and that's just like all ripped from there. I loved
everything the mystery, like how it was constructed, the way
it unfolded. Loved everything about it till you had your
hand up.
Speaker 3: So I didn't realize that the Arkhams were actually like
another rich Gotham family as they talked about in this
is That actually comic book?
Speaker 1: They are there's like Jeremiah Arkham. But I and I
could be wrong here with my knowledge. I don't know
if Martha's ever been in Arkham though before, Like, I
don't know if that's been her sort of. I thought
she was just, you know, a woman that Thomas Wayne
Men they got married. I could be wrong. Obviously, there's
almost one hundred years of Batman comics, so maybe it
has happened, but I don't think that's ever been something
that's primarily huge into the Batman Menhills as like, oh
she runs Arkham and all this stuff, or was a
family that there is an Arkham family though, so they've
kind of maybe just meshed to storylines. And I love
I as someone that loves Arkham Asylum, like the place,
the game, everything. I love that we got a lot
of like references and we got to go there, and
I'm very excited to see once that place starts filling
out with some fucking luney tune, people like we already
seen anything else. Yeah, I'm pretty excited for that because
it's never been a big thing in the movies. Like
Nolan's it was there, but they didn't talk about and
Bbs they talked about it. It's it's just like really
big place in the comic books that movies have just
not really gone to. And it's been really strange. Like
you always go to the bat Cave, you always go
certain spots in Gotham, you know, the police station, but
this is one that there's lots of potential to do.
You know, this insane asylum of Batman robes and stuff.
Speaker 3: I want that equivalent scene like from Batman and Robin
where you see the clothing rack with all the villain's
costumes on it. I want to see a much more
darker interpretation of that in this trilogy.
Speaker 1: You might get it. Yeah, maybe let's take an ad
break and then Kirkland you can go. So we'll take
our ad break and then we'll be right back with
Kirkland slots.
Speaker 2: Hopefully they're good, you know they're not.
Speaker 1: And we're back, so Kirkland.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just quickly wanted to mention before I forget,
because there's so much fucking to dissect from this movie.
Three hour movie, a lot of content in there. But
when Travis you brought it up when Bruce Wayne just
reacts to the news of his parents just you know,
being actually sketchy, like his dad possibly being the direct
result of someone dying. And then he goes to the
ice Lounge, the Iceberg Lounge, and just as Bruce Wayne
completely surprised me there and also in the back of
my mind, I'm like, okay, this is him just like
doing a Trojan Horse move or something like this where
he's gonna start kicking ass. But like, no, he was
so genuine with that visit, Like he wasn't there with
battering Maybe he had them in his boot or something
just in case, but like he wasn't there just breaking noses,
Like he literally was just there to get information from Falcone.
And I loved that scene.
Speaker 1: It was It was a great scene.
Speaker 2: It was so good I was not expecting at all.
Speaker 1: And John Deturo sells it. It's like I was believing
him a hunt a percent unto Elford's like, no, that's
not the story. But and I'm so like, I love
John Deturou all the time, but I was happy to
see him like he was just almost just purely dramatic
in this role, and I love that. I was super
disappointed he got shot and there won't be more of him,
but they are making that Penguin Show and that's gonna
be a prequel, so I'm hoping he pops up in
that because I loved him as Falcone. He was he
was so good for just such a minor role.
Speaker 2: You know, I definitely we probably knew this, but I
completely forgot that he was in this movie. So when
he was on screen, I was so pumped. I feel
like I I didn't know his name, but it's just
like I love that actor, you know, like he's not
the best actor in the world, but I just love
him in the roles that he's in. And funny enough,
the only one I could really think of that he's
in is Transformers, not big Lebowskism. That's right, Transformers, Jesus,
that's right for anyone who's new Order the geek first,
the big Bowski is my favorite movie of all time.
Speaker 5: That is my number one and so I and I've
seen it so many times.
Speaker 4: That that is who he is for me, so to
have that and once again, I also I didn't know
he was in this movie, and so it adds this
kind of creepy, sleaziness like backstory to the character in way,
which is you know, it was not there. But once again,
that's just like a casting thing, like he was so
great in that role. It is a simpler role. But
I I was so happy to see him and I
loved all that character stuff with him. And once again
that scene that see is great. And then he goes back,
he goes back to the hospital and then it's like, oh,
actually that wasn't all true.
Speaker 5: It's good.
Speaker 4: I think maybe one And I don't even know if
I can really criticize the movie for this. I think
this maybe just on my end, but I got a
little bit lost in the shuffle with like there was
Maroni and he maybe was in charge of some stuff,
and then there's Falcone and then Penguin and like does
Penguin have his boys or is he just like a
felcne goon. And then there's like the good cops, but
then there's also this whole thing of bad cops. So
I got a little bit lost in the shuffle of
where all these I don't know crime bosses control and
what was going on. And obviously, as you mentioned, like
some answers of like who killed his father isn't isn't
answered here, But that was one thing for me. I
got a little bit lost in the shuffle, and I
could not tell you who Maroni is or what impact
he is. I guess he was like a drug dealer,
but I don't really know where he fits in with
the other puzzle pieces.
Speaker 1: I was surprised, and I actually don't think you're wrong
that they could have spent even it's already three hours,
you could spend a few more minutes with some exposition.
Because Maroni is it's all always foul Cone versus Maroney.
They're the two big, like normal guy crowning bosses in Gotham,
and like even if you look at the Nolan trilogy,
the first Moroni was in the first one Batman Begins,
and then Falcones in the Dark Night. So I found
it to be a weird choice that Moroni and taking
down Maroney was such a big deal, and there was
no actor cast for him. There was not a scene
that makes me think that that character is gonna come
up in the sequel because they just didn't have but Moroni.
Like it's something that I feel it's almost that Harry
Parlor of the ringsing where if you're the book, where
you go, oh, I know exactly who this I know
who they're talking about, but if you don't know who
Maroni is whatnot. I feel like they didn't like hold
your hand in that part, and I think you they
could explain that a bit better because I'm like, oh,
we're the amount there talking about him. We had heard
no casting from Maroney, but like, oh, I guess they
maybe did a secret casting. We're gonna see something. And
for such, it almost felt like this was a sequel
when they're talking about Maroney, like you should know this character,
you know who they're talking about, but you don't. You
never just say, Okay, I guess he was in One
Big Mob Boss. But I think they will fill that out.
Not that that's gonna make this one better in that sense.
It may be in retrospect, but in this movie, I
think they could have for a little bit, a bit
more explainer stuff, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I could not remember that fal Cone
was a character in the Dark Knight. Like my knowledge
doesn't go that deep. So for me, it's all new characters,
and yeah, it's a bit hard to follow it.
Speaker 2: I yeah, like as I knew of the character of
Falcone from The Dark Knight, but right at the start
of this movie when they mentioned the name Maroni, I
was thinking that that was the same person. So going
into it, I'm like, oh, this is really interesting that
they actually like killed off this character before the or
yeah he was killed off right, Well he's in prison,
ok yeah, yeah, so he's just out of the picture.
So I was I was really surprised that we're going
this shrore. It's like, Okay, we're gonna see new villains here.
And then obviously when I heard the name fell Coon,
It's like, oh, okay, there is two. But yeah, I'm
very intrigued on just the crime syndicates and and what
happens they're going forward. I mean, I mentioned Penguin licking
his lips, you know, on the on there, and we
haven't really talked about him. I don't know if we're
ready to even go there I'll just quickly mention. Maybe
I won't quickly mention that, but I I just loved
which was very different that he wasn't just like the
head honcho, you know, like he was kind of like
like he's working as we maybe a number two, number
three or something like that, and it was he's got
to get some teeth thenears done.
Speaker 1: Don't bring up Boba fed on such a good review
right now, I don't want to think about.
Speaker 2: Were ended here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't, don't. You don't want another reference. But yeah,
I know he was Falcon's right hand man. That's what
they said.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and but is bigger than anyone.
Speaker 1: You would think he was the number one guy.
Speaker 2: I loved him so much. I I really really like
the character of the penguin for a big part. Again,
it's like this Jim Carrey thing, say what you wive
with the Danny DeVito thing. I love it. It's so
over the top and ridiculous, the Tim Burton one. But fuck,
I love it. But I know that it's Colin Farrell.
I'm watching it and I'm back in my mind. I'm like,
that's Colin Farrell.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's Callin.
Speaker 2: While he's acting I'm telling myself that this is Colin Farrell,
but I'm like, no, it's wrong. It's a different person
prosthetics and acting.
Speaker 1: They better get the Oscar for prosthetics as that makeup is.
And it doesn't even look bad. It doesn't even look
like a bad like Fats or they. He looks so
believable and yeah, he I don't much just say I'm
Penguin other than he was just enjoyable. I'm very curious
how they're gonna do a show if him on HBO Max, Like,
I get you sell it because like it's Penguin, it's Batman,
it's Callin Farrell. Fair enough, but I'm interested, and I
think if you're into that, like the crime Syntic Kit
of Gotham, that's what that show is gonna be about.
But I'm just so curious because he's not a likable
he's likable in the sense of like we like him
as like, oh he's a fun villain, but him to
be the main character of a show, it's gonna be
interesting because he's not a likable guy. He's a piece
of shit. And but yeah, Colin Farrell and knocked out
of the park. Whether it's the batcave.
Speaker 4: I'm looking at side by side pictures and it just
I don't see it at all.
Speaker 1: I know, right crazy, But whether it was a batmobile
chase or I really love the scene him and Batman
had first. I'm just interrogating him and he was like
seemingly helping out Batman but not really, And I love
that it was just not this like high octane like
all the second Batman gets penguined, he's gonna lock him up.
It's like, no, he's gonna pressure him a little bit
and just see like he can't arrest him, but he's
gonna you know, I'm very excited to see what dynamic goes.
And I feel like he's gonna be the same way
Scarecrow was in the Nolan trilogy, where Scarecrow just kept
popping up. That's gonna be Penguin because he wasn't arrested.
And I liked too when they left him shackle there
for Biden.
Speaker 2: He's waddling like a penguin, like literally that's how they
leave him. So it was hilarious. And then you mentioned
like the car chase scene. You know, like I knew
what was how that scene was gonna end because of Dylan,
you didn't know this, but like that's how one of
the trailers ended, was like hit his car flipped up
side down, and then you see him, you see Batman
walking towards him upside down, fucking and then the theme hits.
Oh my, that was so epic. But I was still
like at the edge of my seat during that entire
chase scene. We we briefly mentioned like the Batmobile and
all that stuff, but that scene was so just high
octane and it was it was. I fucking loved it,
even though I knew how it was gonna end, Like
I feel like, in the moment, I'm still like.
Speaker 1: This could go anyway.
Speaker 2: And honestly that that happened a few times in this
movie where I knew of a scene that hadn't happened yet,
whether it was the Riddler diner scene or something like that,
or Batman beating the ship and then you out of
someone and then you see Selena just like just beating
the beating his ship. You know, you see Selena like
fearful of him, just beating the shit out of this guy.
I knew those scenes. I knew that that scene was coming,
but I was just so engaged in the movie that
until it happened, it was like, oh Ship, I forgot
about this. I keep saying Ship. Now you guys are
pointed out I got.
Speaker 5: To replace something else explicit tag on this.
Speaker 2: But I think that just goes to show how how
engaging this movie really was, because even like you know,
if you see the movie and then you go back
to the traps, you're like, oh, they showed this. Maybe
they shouldn't have, but what whatnot. I didn't get that
feeling during the movie at all.
Speaker 1: I feel like you have to be a cobble plot
guy right like that, Like I feel like, well, yeah,
you know what.
Speaker 2: I mean, Like.
Speaker 3: I've I've I've never been like a massive like Penguin fan.
Dany DeVito's penguin used to just scare the fucking daylights
out of me when I was a little kid.
Speaker 2: It's pretty gross. Those teeth and the nose and everything.
Speaker 1: It was literally literally reads oil.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, he's got his penguin like secret agents.
Speaker 1: With like the back. Yeah, I know some breathing he
in that movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah that was freaky fucking but yeah, this iteration like yeah,
you don't even recognize that it's call and it's just
absolutely bonkers. But I loved his performances as Penguin. It
was really cool. Just he just kept popping up and
I was totally okay with it. Yeah, the interview interrogation
at first, and then that's segueing to him being you know,
captured and like interrogated under shackles and stuff like that,
and then him popping up again when they're arresting Falcony
and there's like fifty cops, like good cops out front,
and Penguin doesn't give a fuck. He whips his gun
out to shoot Cony.
Speaker 1: It's like he finally has like kee can out the
power and he's gonna throw it away in this And
when falcon he got shot, I was like, oh my god,
he literally did just shoot him in front of thebody's
very No, I didn't even know what.
Speaker 2: I didn't do anything. It's like we're going to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like he only got saved because like Riddler
just happened to be there that moment.
Speaker 3: And yeah, absolutely, But the whole sequence with the car
chase and stuff, I like, yeah, we did get to
see a bit of that in the trailer, in that sequence,
but holy shit, just get into actually behold it and
like witness it here. It just was so great him
just like driving around him laughing and freaking out and
sco just the score was so good. Him just yelling
at the trucks that he kept getting stuck behind was funny.
It was just such a good sequence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, we talked about Penguin. Uh, maybe we should
talk about Slena Kock because we haven't talked about her yet. Tiff,
you always keep going laught, so you know, I'll let
you have the floor. What do you think about Slena
Kock because she's not They didn't drop cat Woman once
in this. I feel like it's kind of similar to Penguin,
where this is the start and you'll probably see like
a higher costume going forward. But you have Slena Kyle
in this Moe who's pretty much a cold lead in
this one for quite a bit of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I quite like Zoe as Catwoman, and this sure did
a really really good job.
Speaker 1: Zoe rob He's on first.
Speaker 5: It's interesting when you picked me all in.
Speaker 1: You know, I really liked a.
Speaker 3: Hathaway as as Catwoman as well. But seeing you know,
a new iteration is always a good time. And she
was just super super fun and mysterious and just she
she just she fit the bill. She fit the role
so well, and I really am what was that one
part o? Her being related to thee to Falcony was
an interesting twist as well. I wasn't expecting that, but yeah,
just her dynamic and her just trying to like get
revenge and just be killing people and Batman's like, no,
stop it and all that stuff. But like the sexual
tension between her and Batman was really really nice. It
was kind of it's really.
Speaker 1: Sequel.
Speaker 2: That's why I stayed through the end credit.
Speaker 3: But no, she was just fantastic and I love to
just riding the motorbikes around and stuff like that. I
loved when he gave her the eyepiece and she put
she was in the club like interrogating and like ground
It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: When she was.
Speaker 3: Trying to get the money and she saw her former
you know colleague unfortunately bushered death inside.
Speaker 1: The former colleague this was my former call.
Speaker 2: Acquaintance.
Speaker 1: Like, he's not wrong. They did work at the club, right,
so it's like he's not making a false statement. It's
just I don't think that's why she would describe her friend. Yeah,
like if I if someone if I find Taylor Dan
in the back of someone's trunk and be like, oh.
Speaker 2: No, my colleague, that's the politically correct term, right, Yeah,
now he'll be in your trunk. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: No, I don't have a trunk. I don't drive, he'll
be in my bike. Could just be a dead body
just strapped to it. Dylan is, what do you think
about Zoe Zoe Kravitz as Lenika.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think she stole the show for me. She
was so captivating on every single scene. There's just this
mystery tour. She's completely reckless. That made it so you
just couldn't predict what she was gonna do moment to moment.
Obviously you guys brought up she just like was open
to kill these people, and she did the action to
do it. But then you know, someone else saves the day.
So it just yeah, I just added this element to
this unpredictable element too, where I you know, I didn't
know if she would go against Batman or continue to
work with him. The acting is phenomenal. I like the
little details. Yeah, like they never say cat.
Speaker 5: Woman outright, but just a little thing.
Speaker 4: So when they're in her apartment and she just like
chooses to drink milk instead of something else. Or she
does the walk, which is obviously just very you know,
she's throwing those hips back and forth but all just
a foot in front of the other, very much like
a cat. The Nine Lives line, I really liked that line.
And then she just pieces off the roof.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very risky. Imagine she just fucking splat and
that was.
Speaker 2: Like the end of her you know, yeah, that was
the main thing. When she jumped, I'm like, what does
she just miss?
Speaker 4: You know, that's good lives what I was Also, I
looked at her IMDb page off from like, man, I've
seen her in like four or five things. Actually, somehow
I feel like I never have. She's always just been
in like kind of minor roles. But yeah, like this
was this was amazing. I was so impressed by the
performance all around. And the tension between her and and
Robert Pattison is just amazing. So yeah, to me, it
was very amazing. I like the ending to that shot
of them going on their bikes and kind of racing
each other a little bit and then going separate ways
and you see Batman looking his look in his mirror,
but does she do do the same? We don't know, uh,
And then she kind of just it's like she doesn't
just go over the hill.
Speaker 5: She like disappears.
Speaker 1: It's like a figment of his imagination, like she was
never fucking there, Like no, Yeah, I love that shot
of because they say bye, and I feel like, man,
this is really awkwards, like when you say by your friend,
but then you're still like leaving. Oh I forgot my jacket,
like like so they're driving together, but I love the
shot of them literally stopped and they go their separate
ways and almost like because what I like is she
turns left and I thought it was gonna go they're
gonna go straight, and they're gonna both turn at the
same time. She turns left and Batman turns right, like
on a five second delay, and he's just sitting there,
and I think from when you see the mirror in
his face shot, you can imagine there's like a struggle
of like what if I did take a left, you like,
what if I went that direction? He doesn't. Because I
love the line when she's like, oh, you're already spoken
for and she's referring to the bat signal and it's
like she's kind of giving that speech that happens in
every Batman story of just like you're gonna do this forever,
like it doesn't matter what you say, you can say
all this city is getting better. It's like you're gonna
You're gonna die in this cow And I love that
shot of just him looking and I like that's the
final Like that's where I think if we get the triljan,
which I think is gonna happen, I think she'll be
in each movie because I think this was a big
semblance of this was the meet cue them getting to
know each other. But the last show in the movie
is him looking at Selena. You know to me that
that speaks volumes to what Matt Reeves might want to
do with these two characters going forward. And I have
a whole trilogy of Batman and Catwoman, my favorite like
duo in any sort of media. I love it. And
they had the chemistry they read I was wondering like
were they even gonna be kissing? How far they were
gonna go? And right away they play up that will
they won't be they they they play that like perfect match,
but match made in Heaven or match made in hell
as far as they get each other. But she's willing
to break the law or kill people where he's not.
There's all this good stuff.
Speaker 3: He was contemplating that vigorous night, and he's looking at this.
Speaker 1: Said that first kiss like he was throbbing in that
bats that batsuit was ready took a bust right now,
you know. And that scene though, like you show out
two of the whole the islands, that to me, I
love because it felt very much like a video game
of like seeing Selena's point of view and her just
like going to characters. I'm just like, no, you gotta
scan all the faces, like I feel like we've like
in the Spider Man game del when you play as MJ.
That's what that scene felt like, Like this is the
walking character scene. But he just learned so much. And
I'm somebody I love Michelle Pfeiffer, so that was very
hard to match it. I think she did. I still
prefer fight for a bit, just because there's some characters
stuff in there, but this, like the fighter thing was
one to one to one hundred really quick. They're taking
a slow burn with her. I think this is one
If you don't know Zoe Kravitz. It's like a star
making type of performance. It's so cool that she voiced
Catwoman in Lego Batman and here we are years later
and she's doing this And I thought they nailed it
because I liked Hathaway enough. But one thing that they
didn't nail those movies is bail and her did not
have that chemistry where you're just like, oh, I got
I want to see these together so bad. You didn't
have that here. You what you want is at the
end of the movie you want for yourself to have.
You want to want Batman to go with her. You know,
even though you want him to be the Batman, you
want him to be like, uh, just go Selena, like
take off. I was lot. He might take off his
mask on that last little bit because she's just asking, hey,
maybe if you want me to stay, but he gives
her the cold shoulder. But even if he doesn't want,
that's that's the perfect And they use this line in
Crazy Stupid Love. But she has that the perfect combination
of Sweden's actually because she is a gorgeous woman. She's
doing all those very seductive things, but there's moments where
she feels very innocent or very exposed in a way
where like that scene where she's checking on Batman after
he's been shot with the Shatka and stuff, she looks
very concerned and she looks very hurt, and even the stuff,
she looks very insecure with Falcone. And yeah, they did
a great job. I think that's all to the writing.
And I do hope if there is a trilogy that
she's in everyone, because I think they're nailing the dynamic already.
I think it could only grow more. And I was
surprised they left on good terms. I didn't think that
would be the case, and I do like that again,
so he knows that she's Sleeina and maybe we would
become Catwoman. She doesn't know, so that's a big real
that could happen. I thought for sure when she was
gonna go kill Falcone and he showed up to the
club as Bruce Wayne, I thought she was gonna see
him and then figure out like, oh, the only reason
Bruce Wayne would be here is because he knew, like
Batman knew I was gonna be here. But nope, they
still hit it and he does a lot of costume changes.
Bruce Wayne and this like to get on that bike
and off he's taken that klan off. But yeah, I
thought she did a fantastic job.
Speaker 2: That's actually something I forgot to bring up with The Batman.
I love that it wasn't like he wasn't just relegated
to using the batmanobile to get around, Like he could
just take off the cow put on a helmet and
then he just looks like a regular dude on a
bike with like a big coat that covers the whole suit.
I love that. That was very very new for me
experiencing The Batman. But yeah, Zoe Kravitz is Selena Kyle.
She was ten out of ten for me. I loved
everything about her. I was I think I was expecting
this really calm, cool, collected character that wouldn't put herself
in a vulnerable situation. But many times she was like
there's many times she was scared. There's many times that
she was like asking Batman for help. And I loved
all that stuff. Travis, you mentioned like it's probably like
big writing, and absolutely I tip my hat to them.
They're fantastic with what they did with the character. Pattinson
and her very attractive people. I love just seeing them,
you know, having that that on screen chemistry. And this
is a character that I really really want to see
stick around for the trilogy and just see that that
relationship Ebb and Flow, you know, like this it wasn't
all sunshine rainbows with them, like they did definitely had
their disagreements, like when when Batman like knocked the gun
out of her hand, like when they're up on the
on the sky rise there, like that was like, you know,
because they were very even from like Bruce Wayne's perspective,
he was very like like enamored by her, Like it
seemed like anytime he was looking at her, he would
he almost forgets that. He's like in the middle of
a mission, It's like, what is this just screeping on her?
Speaker 1: At one point, tholars a little too much. I was like,
oh man, Bruce, you gotta look somewhere else.
Speaker 2: But when she's all around, yeah, and he's just like
for information, He's like he's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the example I was going to bring up was
like when he's uh kind of interrogating cobble Pot and
then he just keeps like looking in the reflection and
like I guess you could put it like he's just
checking out all the threats, but like like couple plots
talking but like I think he's not really understand what
he's hearing. Luckily, he's got the contact, so he's kind
of capturing anything and everything. But she, she was, She
was amazing. I she just like also just the look
of like a sleek catwoman, like she just had that
I loved with her short hair. She she just absolutely
killed it. But I think the thing that really surprised
me is what I was saying of like her willing
to be vulnerable, like her showing emotion that she was
just terrified for her friend Anka just being disappeared, and
then when she found out that she was murdered, like
completely distraught, and like she was becoming vengeance, you know,
like she wanted to have her revenge on her friend
and I she was ten and ten For me, I
loved all of that. At the end when she was walking,
when she was going away, I was kind of expecting
to drop the line like I forget what Batman said,
but her to like actually say like Bruce, I don't know.
In the back of my mind, I was expecting that
and then him be like what you know, and then
then they just go there. That's not me.
Speaker 1: I'll beat the shit out of you. It's over for you.
Speaker 2: But you know, like when it didn't happen, I I
think it's better that that it didn't. It allows us
to have that reveal in the second or third movie
whenever it happens. I think I think it would have
happened in the second movie, just because like, so, what
was that some day it'll happen. Yeah, some day it'll happen.
But she was phenomenal. I loved it. I was excited
to see her on screen, and she really she really delivered.
And uh, I mean the writer's delivered with their character.
Speaker 1: So let's let's see here. Yeah, let's take one more
ad break here and then we can talk. Oh, I
guess I know where we're going next to talk about
one certain character and then maybe some other things and
uh get to the end points we be right back
and we're back. So yeah, one other guy we have,
Tobo's Gordon. I just want to say, I really like Gordon.
I think he works as like a perfect like Watson
to Sherlock home sort of psidekick. I love that they
feel like legit partners. I think they gave him a
lot of good one liners, but in the sense of
like I said the whole like, hey, that's your deal,
not mine to the guns line. I love, like, Man,
I've been working with you two years and I don't
even know who you are. He would just have this
little dialogue that was felt like he's saying it to Batman,
but almost to hisself, just like what am I doing here?
Like I'm teaming up with this bat But I love
until the end of the movie it is literally just
them against the world. Sometimes the movies say that, but
this one actually feels like that. It just feels like, man,
Gordon can't trust anybody, and I actually love that. I
think for the first time, Gordon felt very aggressive towards Batman.
He would push around. There's that one moment when he
said he need a minute, he like punched him in
the chest. He's like, like, what the hell are you doing?
Like I love that. It was not always just Batman
being above Gordon, like, oh, puny cop, like I'm the
billionaire and Batman you do what I say. There's where
Gordon really pushed back on him, and I thought they
had a great chemistry. Jeffrey right, He's one of those
guys that he's popped up in a bunch of stuff
for years, he's always good and again he's good here.
He just feels he Gordon is the quintessential Tom Hanks
character where he's just a normal guy trying to do good.
Sometimes that can be a boring role. Gary Oldman did
it very well. I think he did it very well
as well. So I'm saying lots of well it's my shit,
like Kirklands, but yeah, I'm very excited to see more
of interres with him. But if it was just even
this movie, I thought he was a great counterpoint to
Batman and kind of trying to be the torch bearer
of the good guy cops or a change for Gordon.
Speaker 4: So one hundredcent agree. I think he's another actor too
that seen him around but always in like very minor roles.
So it was cool to see him in a much
bigger role and he was in it a lot. And yeah,
I just think the once again casting was great on
this one. And yeah, I'm happy he's he's gonna be around,
And yeah, I don't think I have too much ad
on what you said, but I really liked his, uh
his addition, and he was in a lot like he
had a lot more screen time than al Ford, for example,
which I don't know if that's normal, but anyway.
Speaker 2: He was in a lot and it was good to see. Yeah, No,
I definitely agree he was. He was great. I've really
really grown to like Jeffrey Write a lot. I feel
like I've always liked him, but he's just I didn't
see him in like big roles, so it's like, oh, yeah,
that guy's good. But then I would like forget about him.
He probably would be overshadowed by like some of the
the bigger protagonists in in whatever media thing I was
experiencing with him, but then obviously big time on my
radar because he was the Watcher and what if super
just lovable, iconic voice. It's it's so it's so powerful,
and seeing him as as Gordon here it was it
was awesome. You know, Travis, he mentioned like the buddy
cop thing that was so great, and yeah, no, I
I don't think I have much to say because you
just you just nailed it and he was he was,
He was fantastic. I'm really excited to to just have
that pairing moving forward, you know, like I'm glad he
didn't die or anything like that I I wasn't sure
if he was going to be a target. He wasn't
sure if he's gonna be a target. That man reassured
him and he's like, no, you're a good cop. You
were not going to be targeted. And I'm glad he
wasn't because I I don't you know, like Gary ol Yeah,
Gary oldman in the Dark Knight trilogy. That's his name, right,
It always sounds weird. Yeah, okay, like he he went
through a lot of shit in that trilogy. I'm glad
in at least the first movie, which Eff writes Gordon,
you know, it's nothing too crazy, especially like reading through
uh the CBVs that we're doing. It's like, fuck, Gordon
has gone through so much terrible ship in his day.
It's nice to just have, you know, dealing with a
lot of corruption and dealing with a lot of krup cops.
But still is his wife and kids weren't being kidnapped here.
Speaker 1: He is married. I saw a ring on his finger though,
so Barbara's potential.
Speaker 2: So the New DA is gonna just kidnap with his family.
Speaker 1: It's about what's fair.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Well, Jeffrey Wright, my first experience with him would have
been Hunger Games, and like, right away, like he stood
out as a prominent actor.
Speaker 6: So getting you know that prominent he looked, Yeah, he's
going to be a Batman w as Batman.
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking, like middle school tailor is, Like, that's
a prominent actor, a prominent one.
Speaker 3: Seeing him in the role of Gordon was fantastic. I
loved just hiding the dynamic, especially we we saw this
scene shared earlier when him and Batman had the one
on one and the cops are waiting outside the room,
and I just love that. I love it so much
when he leans and he's like, you know you're gonna
hit me, take this key, go down that hall, and
and afterwards it's like, you know, you could have pulled
your punch back a little bit. I did. I did. Yeah,
their dialogue was so good together. I loved how they
played off of each other, and I just I loved
how he just really fought for him and advocated for Batman,
just showing up right from the get go when the
commissioner strolls and like what the hell is he doing
here and everything like that. It's just it was great
to see this. And yeah, I mean you mentioned it earlier.
Like that mask was coming off without Gordon there.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I oh go ahead, Oh I
was gonna say I loved how intenset scene was when
people were trying to take off his mask. At one
point they throw Batman in the side. They're like, that's it,
you assaulted off. So we're gonna rescue for assaulting one,
and it's like, you should rest me for assaulting three
and Gord's like no, hey, like bat One was ready
to rain down hell and brimstone on these cops because like,
at the end of the day, most of them are dirty.
So it's like, yeah, not that he doesn't care, but
it's just like he's not gonna feel bad about doing it.
So I loved everything. And when he's just running through
the police section like I'm actually if you're doing your job,
and just then yeah, a man, a bat outfit just
runs at full speed and you're just like, fuck, I'm
going back to Detroit like I'm not gonna be like
off them here like the and I love when he
justies like that. I love the batgrapple comes out of
his wrist and when you just go up there that
shot of just call a seme of just like cops
just trying to shoot at him. He's just going And yeah,
that was a great little set piece there in the prison.
Speaker 2: I love just what you brought up there of like
Batman basically understanding that majority of people in this room
are the enemy, like they are working for the bad guys,
and it's it's that really interesting dynamic where you know,
he trusts, he trusts Gordon, and Gordon trusts him. But
Gordon understands, like you can't just fucking kill all these
cops or you know, he's not gonna kill them, but
just beat the ship out of them, break their teeth in,
like there's there's the right way to do this, and
trust me, I can help you do this. It's tough
when he's just surrounded by He's literally in like a
shark take in that situation, because they're all they all
want a piece of the Batman.
Speaker 1: And then and they're looking for a reason to arrest,
like they just waiting to give it, get an excuse
to take this guy down, you know.
Speaker 2: And yeah, oh man, I I fuck, this movie's so fantastic.
I love the way that the cops kind of are
fearful of of the Batman, you know, that's shown as
I mentioned earlier, like when when he enters like the
manner of the Mayor and they're just like they're seeing
this demon just walk in. And and then like just
Batman's pretty much uttered disgust with like the like all
of them, like all of you are corrupt. I can't
trus see any of you other than Gordon here. And
then like when he's in the cops shop there and
he sees that one cop who he broke his nose
and he just like who is that, Like I've blah
blah blah, like basically explains to him that he that
he's working for a Falcone. I just I it's nothing new, obviously,
but I I I really really love that dynamic. And
I feel like I've I've grown to like that dynamic
more the more I learned about Batman. Is that it
is having Gordon in the middle, you know, Batman and
then the cops like and it's such a As I say,
it's nothing new, but I just really have grown to
to appreciate that dynamic is as fucked up as it
is for an individual like Gordon just being in the
middle of that, But that's fantastic.
Speaker 4: That leads into one criticism I have, which is that, yeah,
they're talking up all like all the cops are bad.
Falcones got them all under under his thumb. And then
when the scene when they're like arresting Falcone and brings
it up, he's like, well, how do you know which
guys are good? He's like, don't worry, these guys are good.
Even though there's like fifty of them. He's like, oh, certain,
all of these guys, yeah, are completely good. So to me,
I felt like a bit lazy. I'm curious to see
in the sequels if there is still bad cops or
if that's something like maybe there's one or two. I
don't know, but if that's something that they are still
trying to work through as they're like, okay, trying to
figure ot who's good and bad. Because that seemed like
kind of just a throwaway line for where they were
building up as this big thing no one here can
be trusted except for Gordon.
Speaker 1: No. I do agree, because I was surprised how many
there was. I was surprised like it felt like there
was maybe a scene where Gordon had maybe talked it,
because it felt.
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, they didn't need to put a fifty cops. Yeah,
and he would have put like five or ten.
Speaker 5: And it would have been might be more believable.
Speaker 1: Even if there's not good cops. You could see maybe
these cops are turning because like, oh well the tides
turning because like he's getting arrested. We don't want to
go down with them. But that's where I feel like,
I'm not sure if there is. It felt like to
me there was a scene to explain why these cops
would be here, that Gordon's found a way to either
get them all. Yeah, I did think it was a
lot from at one point it was like we can't
trust anybody to Gordon to oh no, we got lots
of cops here we could trust, like Obvio sly big city, right,
so there's a lot more so I'll agree. I was
scratched my head too, like this is a lot of
police where they just quiet, were they or even if
they would have said some sort of line of like
you know, again, they were a certain path of what
you're doing with the city has maybe changed their ways,
like you know what, I shouldn't be a dirty cop
anymore and stuff like that. You know, even the DA
he was only except like ten random month, not a
huge amount, like like pretty and I love that sequence too,
like naming off the three Riddles stuff, and he's lucky
riddler like let him cheat, like without Batman, no chance.
Speaker 2: And just speaking upon like all the cops being corrupt
there in observation I had when they're at fuck what
was it called Gotham Square Garden Square Garden, like the
floods are happening. I I feel like I never thought
about it really. It caught me in in this particular scene,
but like I saw some people like FBI jackets and
stuff like that, Like those people aren't necessarily probably from Gothamy,
like they're from wherever FBI headquarters are. And then I
was thinking about that again, like by the end, you
have like the National Guard there like literally like army men,
and then like image just being the soldier and then
you're just trying to get these people out. There's just
this dude, a bad that you like you have no
idea what the fuck is going on in Gotham, right
like like.
Speaker 1: Then they're like no, no, no, dude for him, he's
good and he's like all right, I'm vengeance. I wonder
why you guys have so many fucking problems in this.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I'm just gonna deal with getting people out
of here. Then I'll ask the Batman questions afterwards. Uh
is funny thought I had, but I just couldn't imagine,
you know, like, oh yeah, okay, we're gonna go help
out Gotham. Who the fuck is this guy? You know
there's someone named Penguin and just all the other Gotham tales.
It's funny when you when you blend like the realism
to like the comic book stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, I imagine the National Guard show up. He got
the fuck out of there because I think it would
just be too awkward of a situation. I think he
saves some people's like I gotta go, which I love.
We know this from the trailer, but I love the
through line of that kid that he was always checking
up on, just a little bit of he you know,
the mayor gets killed and he's you know, he's as Batman,
he's in the crimes and he just sees that kid
and one. I love that scene too. I love when
Alfred sees that scene replayed because it's just like, you see,
there's still trauma, Bruce. I love later on and we
talked about the sage showing that scene of in the
church scene, Bruce doesn't care about anything else. He's just
focused on I'm gonna save that kid and make sure
that kid doesn't get hurt. And it's such a fun
through line to who's the first person that grabs his
hand when he lights and smoke is that kid. All
the adults are scared, the mayor is scared for that
kid is the first one to kind of give Batman
that approval and it that was just like a cheess
kiss from me, the little stuff, because that's a big
thing with Batman, right because he lost his innocence and stuff,
so anytimes he sees someone in a similar situation, he
feels for him. And I thought that was all well done.
Speaker 4: Definitely, I wanted to quickly shout out the cinematographer. We've
mentioned this in passing with Greg Frader, making Batman kind
of like a horror villain at a time, like at
times he was so scary. Obviously we've I've joked about
the lighting and I'm just right in black it is.
Speaker 5: But the lighting is great.
Speaker 4: All the stuff looks great, and just like just the
camera work. I also wanted to shout out is great.
Like the opening scene to me stood out too. Of
you start out, I don't know if it was the
exact opening scene, but you have the binoculars looking through
this house, and then you the next shot is like
up on the roof and it's kind of looking through
this slit in like the ceiling window thing, and then
you kind of zoom in and the you're looking at
that character, like his face, and then it turns around
you're seeing what he's watching on TV. Yeah, and then
that's when you kind of get introduced to Riddler and
then you know that continues from there. But just the
camera work in general is great. It's what I expect
from Matt Reeves after watching Seeing the punt Apes trilogy.
But yeah, just solid the whole way through.
Speaker 5: Good stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's lots of that. I can't wait
till I get Blue. There's lots of scenes where it's like, oh,
that's a wallpaper right there, and just comic book panels too,
Like there's so much at the beginning that narrative, like
when he's going through Gotham and you have like that
blade runner almost type city scape. Of all the ads,
there was a little Caesar ad there. But there's so
many times where it just looks like, oh, you could
freeze frame this, and this is a wallpaper, this is
a comic book panel, you know, And that's good stuff
right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hundred percent like any green screen scene, it didn't
feel like it was a green screen. I felt like
they were in Gotham and it felt it felt very real,
and all the artsy shots were phenomenal, like the top downs.
I think it's when the da is entering his vehicle
and that top down shot and then it kind of
pans out when he is the viewer at that point
in time, but it's just like a red and blue
flash and then it kind of zeems out all of
a sudden. Photography is phenomenal. We mentioned the score as well,
and I think pre spoilers Chef's kiss on that I
forgot who you said scored it, Michael, Yeah, he's just
on a roll right now. And yeah, all that with
great interest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all that stuff by the bat signal, that's all
done with I can't remember what if it's called, like
the motion or that stuff. It's that stuff that they
use on Mandalorian where it's like that big CGI or
that big room of just screens and stuff like that,
so it's not on green screens. So these actors are
acting against like a real city scape, moving and everything
like that. So yeah, what are you laughing about, Taylor,
mic Taylor, are your some points that you have going on,
because we'll just throw out some general points right now.
There's the big thing we're Yeah, there's a couple of
tinme things I have. There's the big thing. We'll talk
about the cameo, and then we'll get to her.
Speaker 5: Pump some adrenaline in your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I need to that stuff that will.
Speaker 2: Start punching your walls.
Speaker 5: Some points just.
Speaker 3: Overall from the film.
Speaker 1: We're just anything you want to What did you think
about Rob Preston's Batman, We're back to the beginning. Anything
in general, just you want to shut it. If not,
you can pass it back to us. And not like
I said, the camea, we'll save that. But anything in
general that you serve that you want to shot that
doesn't fit with a character, something random that hey that's cool,
or I have a problem with that, et cetera.
Speaker 3: I mean, I love the setting. I love the whole
visualization of the city of Gotham. It just felt like
kind of this vintage met with like a modern, sleek
s kind of vibe, which is cool because again it
was a very modern movie with technology and the you know, say,
cellular devices. Everyone was using all that stuff. I can't
just reiterate what I said before. The characters are just fantastic.
I loved how every actor came to Batan and just
portrayed their characters very, very well. It was great and
I'm very excited now. I didn't mention this before, but
with the Penguin thing, I'm excited to kind of see
where that can go, being like a series now with
him kind of being in this prominent position in Gotham,
and then seeing where we get with the sequels and
what they kind of do with these characters, because I
felt like, now they've this movie creates such a grand
foothold with everything that they established, So it'll be interesting
to see the universe they build up.
Speaker 1: With us Kirkling anything random to shout out, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, I know, I'm definitely forgetting something, but of course, yeah,
fucking Chef's Kiss movie. So and it's little point that
I might have thought of is perfect.
Speaker 1: That's why I tune in next weekend. We're gonna be
doing After nine because patrons want to talk about this,
so that's a good time if you guys forget.
Speaker 2: Probably would have seen it again too because Shay which
they worked tonight, so she was able to come with me,
which fortunately for me allows me an excuse to go
see this again right away.
Speaker 1: There you go. A few things I have. I just
like the first time I see Bruce cleaned up, he's
just wearing this bag yeah shirt with sunglasses indoors. He's
such a little emo kid like he's such from a
Tim Burdon film. I love it, and that's why I
hope it does change.
Speaker 2: But it just was.
Speaker 1: It was so weird seeing Bruce Wayne and just like
a T shirt I would own, I'm like, yeah, this
guy is not the that Bruce Wayne. But it was
a fun little luck he had.
Speaker 2: And it also just shows that like his life is
the night, like he does not experience the nocturnal animal
that's literally a bat. And then you reminded me like
man Wayne Manner in this movie, it feels like a
fucking vampire house, like like just talk about vintage. Yeah,
the architecture of it, it was very different, but very
very cool in my eyes, you know, something I wasn't expecting.
I don't know if it's if they've had a design
like that in the comic books or anything like that before,
but it was. It was really cool, very unique.
Speaker 1: Well, the weird thing is technically they're just living in
Wayne Tower. They're not even living in the manner. And
I actually really love the bat Cave being this broken
down terminal because like it's something that probably clearly exists
at one point, but I love the entrance to it,
and I love how big it was when he gets
in there. Just like, man, the scope of this thing,
and it's something that, yeah, someone's probably not gonna find
because if it's like an abandoned railroad, they're not like
looking for it. Now that could someone might get their
hands on some schematics in a sequel and be like, oh,
I wonder what, like what's this thing here? But I
think that's a fun way of you know, he can
enter it and everything, so hopefully it's well guarded. I
like that Nirvana was actually in the movie. Happened a
few times. They used Nirvana quite a bit in the marketing,
so I'm big Nirvana. I like that it fits. Like
I've said before, the line of you know I all
the I can't remember. I've totally forgot about it. I'll
come back to. But he just the line that they
have in the song of you know, I keep all
these pets, keep all these problems, and now they're my pets.
I'm gonna look it up because I'm just butchering it
now reoccurring kid, Oh big time. I love The Riddler
opening confused me in a good way because when they
were having him watch the mayor and his wife and kids,
at first I thought they were showing some sort of
flashback of Bruce, especially because Bruce is all about being
as a kid, being Zoro and somebody even calls them Zora.
So very fun. But I'm like, okay, so we're gonna
we're not gonna see the murder maybe, but maybe we're
gonna see something else. And we didn't, so I thought
it was a good fake out. And I really loved
when the ship is going down in Gotham Square Garden,
when it's like, oh, what we're gonna do and that
roof just explodes and Batman is just barreling down class
behind him in flames and just like because that moment
all was explosion going. I sat in my seat like,
oh man, oh man, oh man, it's on. It's on,
Like the breaking on he was. He was fucking guys
up until he got shot at one too many times.
But it was just like, man, this guy is just
raining down on us so good that those are some
of my little notes to shout dyl Mus.
Speaker 4: Is this gonna be a how like this is gonna
be a go to Halloween movie for you guys, like
every October you're gonna be watching this. I mean, I'm sure, Travis,
you're gonna watch this like every week for the rest
of your life. But just in general, is is this
added to the Halloween like con because it's really only
Halloween for like five minutes.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I'd
give it that Halloween movie. It's just gonna be an
every day movie.
Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be more Halloween. The way
it started, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be
a full on Halloween movie. And it's like, okay, we
we transitioned pretty quickly and stuff like that. So and
I looked up the lyric I was butchering earlier. Was
and all the animals I've trapped have all become my pets,
And that, to me is like the perfect example of
Batman because it's just like the he keeps all these
criminals and it's like the only thing that kind of
keeps them going is these people out here doing that stuff.
But no, I think you're right down that I'll just
watch all time, So I'm a bad judgment of character.
Speaker 4: And then I mean, lastly, I think you were gonna
mention this anyway, but I want to know what's going
on with that Arkham like sequel bait thing. And I
also didn't stay for the credits, so I don't know
if there's any post credit scene.
Speaker 5: I would have missed it if there was not.
Speaker 1: Really, they're like it's like a so like remember how
Batman had his go to laptop of like speaking to
the Riddler and everything that breaking codes. When he was
talking to Riddler and has that flash in green text,
it just says goodbye and then like flash as a URL.
So I guess we're supposed to go home and search
that URL. I have not done that yet. I'm not
sure if it actually leads you anywhere. So it's not
a scene. It was just more like a easter egg.
I don't know what it does exactly, if it does anything.
So no, nothing, nothing too big there. But yeah, so
this is so we can start talking about this now.
So this is why, ladies and gentlemen, why even though
I always tear the scoopers, I say, all, this is
an a tier B tier. I remember when we first
covered the story. This was in like the low CD
tier when a few people are just putting like, hey,
I'm hearing Barry Kerrigan might be the Joker, and everyone's like, yeah,
I don't think so, it's not really gonna happen. Like
there's a lot of people like, I don't think jokers
in this movie. YadA YadA. Yeah, there's all this stuff.
And then his brother posted, man, I can't believe they
announced that he's the Joker, And at that point people
s doesn't know is his brother trolling?
Speaker 2: What is not?
Speaker 1: And here we are months later. They did not drop
him by name. In the credits. He is unseen Arkham prisoner.
But you have a guy who has a messed up face.
He is looking pretty pale. I didn't see any green
going on. But then he's just cackling like a motherfucker.
So still on. Yeah, there were rumors about this before
because I think they test screen it. It kind of
got out, but the rumors were very small and everything
like that. I think the only thing you would have
seen him is he is drigg in Internals. Oh you
didn't watch Eternals.
Speaker 2: He didn't even he wasn't done Kirk.
Speaker 1: He isn't done Kirk yet. So I would recommend if
you have not seen his work a movie that also
has call him Farrow and uh Nicole Kimmy, go watch
Killing Him His Sacred Deer that was on the first
He's in Green Night as well, but killing his Sacred Deer.
He is phenomenal in so the scene, I'm I'm I'm
very curious what they're doing because Joker lots of times
other than kind of kiddy and cartoon stuff, he's he's
he's a loner, like he doesn't work with others, And
it's like him almost insinuating that he's gonna be partnering
up with these villains. Now, what I really think is
that he will just use some of these villains to
get in his way. But the thing that interests me
the most is I think one I think it's a
like that is a hype way to do it. People
will pick up who they think it is, and that
does it is sequel bait, But I think that gets
people excited. It's just a little cliffhanger and then they
move back on to the rest of the movie. What
I'm interested the most is, so he's already in Arkham.
Is he a guy that was just placing Arkham and
he's gonna get on cause hell? Or has Batman and
him already have interactions? We don't know. I'm not sure
which way it's going. But yeah, Dylan, you didn't know
anything about a potential Joker being in this, So what
do you think about sincas like it just two years
ago we got a Joker movie. But it's one of
those things like we need to do Batman, you know
that is the kind of end point. At some points
you got to do Batman and Jokers. So how did
you feel about them doing a sequel bait? Do you
think it was needed or do you think it maybe
stood out as like a bad call to do.
Speaker 4: No, I don't think it was over because to me
it didn't feel like Joker personally, So to me, it
wasn't like clearly setting up a seat, like I could
have just been some random guy, as you're saying, like
in the credits, it should have just been some random
guy kind of talking to him, maybe foreshadowing something that
would occur later. But also if the if a sequel
never happens, it doesn't feel like, you know, it was
a cliffhanger.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think I think it was fine. Yeah
I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't think that was didn't seem like Joker to me,
but obviously you know they're purposely hiding him a bit,
so m M. I'm also I don't I wouldn't know
all the telles, I guess, but yeah, so I don't know.
I feeling I was just wondering, like what I was
missing because I figured it was some character. It was
likely it was some character, but I'm I guess I'm
a bit surprised that actually is Joker.
Speaker 1: So well, what I'm surprised to in the credits they
had prosthetics for Penguin and unseen Arkham prisoner. I was
very surprised they didn't really show his face because I
get the idea of putting in the shadows, but if
they had him in the shadows so much. I don't
think they needed him to be in prosthetics at all,
like because it was very minimal. But Emily brings us
up as she's like, well, you know what it's gonna happen.
The fanboys are gonna get that blue ray and they're
gonna set the brightness up as high as possible so
you could see. Because what I'm really hoping for, what
I'm liking is it looked like his face was like
a little like I fuck, I was gonna say damage,
but I never want to stay damaged. But it was
like a little disfigured. And that's what I'm always hoping
that I've said before that we have so many versions
now since the Dark Knight of the Joker always does paint,
he always does paint, I would like if he has
some sort of deformity and whatnot, But again it was
very little. So Kirkle, what did you take from this
scene as far as just like it in general? Obviously
it's seemed like, again it's not confirmed confirmed because he's
still just unseen our prisoner, but all signs are pointing
that Barry is our He's gonna be the new Joker,
and I don't know if that means he pops up
right away in too, if he's sitting around. I don't know.
What do you take from all this? Yes, I mean
and you want Joker either, we talked about this month ago.
You're like, I didn't want Joker.
Speaker 2: In this, you know. I I'm okay with this though.
I what I didn't want was Okay, we have the
Riddlers the main villain, and then all of a sudden
there's this weird twist where now the like the Joker
is the big bad Like I think this is a
perfect placement for it, because it's right at the tail
end majority like the ga isn't really gonna know, Like
I heard people behind me, like, is that two face?
You know? Because they showed him kind of like the
one side a little ripley almost like Harvey's burnt face.
Speaker 1: Riley, give me those ripley flavor.
Speaker 2: But honestly, I audibly gasped like in this moment, because
again it's one of those things where like we've cast
we cast it on these rumors like Barry Kyogan he's
in the movie, what's he gonna be? And because I'm
just so engulfed in the movie I'm not even thinking
about what could be coming or what I know is coming.
So he's he's here, he's kinda or sorry. We have
the Riddler just whimpering and moaning the didn't kind of
go his way, and then Barry Kilgan has one of
those voices that's just so recognizable. He's got that heavy
I think he's what is he Scottish? Irish?
Speaker 1: One of those was he me and Emily debade this
was he trying to hide it? Because if he was,
he's not doing a great job.
Speaker 2: At if he was trying, he didn't do a good job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope they just said, like, don't try and
do an American acts and just try your risk, because like, yeah,
it's a very thick accent the guy has.
Speaker 2: So as soon as I heard it, it's like all
of my thoughts just came brushing back in and I'm like,
holy fuck, this is the moment. This is where we
have the Joker, and I am so yeah, I didn't
want it, like you know, before the movie, but I
I could say I was wrong, you know, like like
this was actually a really really smart way to do it,
because I love the fact that he's in arc already
I love the fact that it's not like, who's this
new guy just starting crime in Gotham, Like, no, he
has a history. He's in Arkham for a reason. You know.
Speaker 1: Do you think Batman's a part of that history though,
or do you think they've not interacted yet?
Speaker 2: Saying no, I don't know. I'm unsure, big question mark
on that, but I yeah, no. I I gasped in
this moment, and I was surprised because I was the
only one in the theater that actually reacted that way.
And I'm like, you fucking casuals, Come on, don't you
listen to the geek Perst podcast, we talked about this
turn on business cards, you know, just raining raining, But this,
this was this was crazy, honestly because I I really
really liked the riddleer in here. I'm so glad you
didn't die in this movie. I'm glad he's still he's
an Arkham but he's still in the world. And then yeah,
he's just kind of pairing up with uh with the
Joker now, and Joker gave him a riddle of his
own and they kind of had their own little laugh
fest there. But I, I really really was satisfied with
this Yeah, it was awesome. It was really really awesome.
Speaker 1: What was the real was like, what's one thing you
cannot have but never have?
Speaker 2: No, it's like it's like if you have two or
the less you have, the better it is. It's like
a friend, like the quality of it, you know, paraphrasing,
but stuff along those lines. And because because we were
talking about the ruins of him being the clown, you know,
the joker, I just immediately thought that that's what he was.
And then I think he even has a clever line
of saying.
Speaker 1: Like there's a clown somebody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like it's not so bad being a clown.
And then in my mind I thought that was pretty evident.
But again, we talk about this stuff, right, so, like
even after that scene ended, I heard people like, oh,
who is he? Oh? Like, who oh, I think he's
two faced?
Speaker 5: Uh so do you think it's on stage? And he's like,
here's what you just saw.
Speaker 2: I'm like tacking my other buddies, like these guys don't
know what.
Speaker 1: Like I was just mentioning though, like how they did
like they had something to do prosthetics. Do you think
it's a mistake then that they didn't just do a
full and face shot of like look, no face screen. No,
you have that ga of people they don't get that
hype moment if they don't figure it out, right, if
they don't figure out that's joke or do you think
they lose on that moment if they could have Oh,
look at the Leo gif right the Oh?
Speaker 2: I don't think so, because I think it's small enough
that you're not missing anything if you don't know that
this is the joker, you know, like like you're the
movie isn't any any lesser quality if you just don't
know who this one character is, right, Like you just
witness the rise and fall of the Riddler like in
this tale, and then he's he's meeting this this sketchy person,
and then you're gonna go to the next movie. You
can completely forget about this scene, but you're gonna see
him then. I think it's also one of those things
that a lot of time when you don't know what
the thread is, it's it's scarier that way, like like
you see a silhouette, you couldn't really see his face,
but you can still see some uh deep something was wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
one hundred percent. So I I don't think it's I
think it was handled really well. I'm gonna I'm gonna
die on that hill.
Speaker 1: Taylor Field, how are your thoughts about if it gets confirmed? Similarly,
we got a new Joker right now and honestly just
a very minor scene.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it's with all the rumors and
everything like that, I was just waiting and by my
time to see, okay, where they gonna slip this character
in here, because I'm starting to believe that we're going
to get a Joker here, and did not disappoint. I
really did enjoy seeing because my first time seeing these
two villains just talk, seeing the Riddler and the Joker
just kind of like escalating the situation and just writing
off of each other. It was really really cool just
to kind of witness their dialogue. So I enjoyed that.
And I'm curious to see what kind of a Joker
is going to be. I'm always down to see, like
see a different iteration of the Joker, and I think
after getting Robert's iteration of Batman here, I really want
to see him score off against another just psychologically fucked
lunatic like the Joker. I think it would really be
a cool test to see how this character has overcome
and pushed more hope than vegeance and just see how
the Joker can break his hope and kind of turn
that around against him. And I imagine it'll be like, hey,
he'll get someone close to him and maybe Joker will
kill that person or something like that, which it won't
be Alfred. I think it'll be another like close person.
Speaker 1: Every movie Alfred's in peril, He's like, he's like MJ
and the Toby trilogy. You know, Yeah, it's gonna be
exciting times. I'm excited to see because Matt Reeves did
say that that character had two scenes and they cut
one and they kept the other. So I'm excited to
see what that other scene could be. And I remember
when we first talked about the news and I heard
just the rumor of Barry. I was like, and I
even said, I don't know if I buy this rumor,
but man, I wish it's true. And if this is true,
which it all looks like Barry as the Joker is
gonna be, that's gonna be a very different take. He's
a very different type of cat, very different type of actor.
So I can't wait. So Oh, go ahead, Kirkling.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, you know, like if you
haven't seen the movie yet, don't call Google and the
Batman and stuff. But I always just get a little
bit upset when I like, like literally saw the movie
just came out, and then like you google the bat
and then it's just like the future of Barry Kielgan's
The Joker after The Batman, and it's like the first article.
You know, I I shit on ig on in a lot,
but like, at least they wrote the Batman director reveals
identity of the unnamed Arkham prisoner, you know, like they're
not just spoiling the movie.
Speaker 1: Is that an article you have?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 1: Kind of I want to hear the statement. I want
to hear how he actually words it. I just was
curious to say what he says is like the actual well,
I'm just curious to see what his reasoning is.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like, God.
Speaker 2: Damn held me to disable my head blocker.
Speaker 1: Oh my godkay, I didn't know else it's gonna be
a five minute conquest. If it's gonna take that long,
we don't got to worry about.
Speaker 2: I was just curious of Okay, I guess when you
click on it, it says like is the Joker in
Batman twenty twenty two? And then it says Paul Daniel's
Riddler aka Edward n Ashton, you know, talking to the unnamed.
They don't say the Joker, but just get to.
Speaker 1: The matt Reeves quote. Does matt Reeves have a quote there?
Or did you just lie? Did you pull Taylor and
just lie to me? You said that they said matt
Reeves confirms identity of I was.
Speaker 2: I was telling you that, like the title of the
article and Mace basically doing a rant that like I
hate when the second a movie comes out, you know,
time article the future of Barry Kielgan's the Joker after
the Batman, Like literally that's the first thing that you see,
like at the very top.
Speaker 5: Can this be a conversation for another day?
Speaker 2: No, we're gonna go on for another We're gonna keep going.
You can dip out.
Speaker 1: Let's see where was I Let me just check my
time goats here. Yeah, we're good to go. So, I
mean I read just as quick ones. Do you guys?
Prepare your last thoughts or a score if you want it? Uh,
Summer Hansy, very clear vision, tone and aesthetic. I like
the Nirvana needle drop more than I thought I would
love Gotham and the world building pass and as great
I love right as Gordon. Some scenes felt deliberately slow
in order to bring the drama, and it worked. However,
did the slowness harm the audience potential to be fully
sucked in? I found myself wanting to check my watch
at times in the end. Though I loved it, I
can't stop thinking about it. Four out of five stars.
Yeah for me, I didn't have that experience, but I
guarantee the only time I wanted to check my phone
is like I want. I was worried about how much
was left as far as I just didn't want to end,
but I didn't have any I was sucked in the
whole time. I'm not sure if you guys, do you
have any moments where you thought I should you know,
it's a little slower here or something like that.
Speaker 2: I didn't check my watch, but about an hour in
I'm like, fuck, I really got a piss. I really
got a piss. And when you're like only a third
way through the video, it's a mental battle. From that point,
maybe That's what caused my sweating, just trying to like
keep it in. I was almost rude.
Speaker 5: Finished, I was. I was locked in then yeah, checking.
Speaker 3: Your phone all No, I was totally absorbed into what
I was watching.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well some are just like you're stealing stuff. You're
wrong again, So here you go, April Darkness, April all
these people wanted after nine. So if that's put a
name to the face, but check out, I'm sure they'll
be on next week. I loved it so much. It
was a Batman horror movie.
Speaker 3: Was not to love.
Speaker 1: It was beautifully shot, crabits was perfect, pass and it
was great. Dance performance was real and terrifying thought the
pacing was good, didn't feel overly long, and easily a
ten out of ten from April and then Maddie our
final one. It's someone that It's like someone went in
my mind and wanted to create the perfect Batman movie
that I've always dreamt of, and this is at the Centeratography,
the score were incredible, as where the performances passed and
Fishing my favorite Batman Thank you Matt Reeve's best introduction
to the car ever, it felt like the thing was
a monster. A hundred percent. I agree, like that was
a great little intro there, just the rev and everything
like that. So Dilmus your final thoughts on the Batman
I'm happy. I'm I'm personally happy that you have a
Batman movie that you quite enjoyed. You know that that's
a good one for me.
Speaker 4: So yeah, no, I feel like we've been pretty thorough.
I don't think I have really anything to add. It's
probably my favorite Batman movie. I really enjoyed it, and
I'm excited for more. I'm excited for number two and
I don't know if I'm gonna be watching the Penguin Show. Yeah,
but I'm excited for the second movie and hopefully this
has become a trilogy because they just like there's so
much set up here that'll be fun to pay off later.
But even just as a movie on its own, it's
it's good, and I'm sure I'll re watched it a
couple times and maybe closer to Golden Geeks or something,
but I think this will make quite a few appearances there.
It's it's great. I'm I'm happy to say that I
really really enjoyed a DC movie. It's been a while
since I've been able to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, like you did this. I'm falling in
love with the soul's game. It's like the Paul Rudd
giff like look at us. You know, who would have
thought in twenty twenty two, all this stuff's changing. But
Taylor Field final thoughts and a score if you want
to drop one.
Speaker 3: Ah. Yeah, this movie was just fantastic. It was just
start to finish, just an absolute roller coaster and a
thrill ride. I love the vibes that it was putting out.
I love the characters, I love the dialogue. I love
the music. There were scenes that would just start to
pop off and that score would go full swing. Everything
about this movie was just building my excitement up. As
I said before, I wasn't distracted at all, Like I
was just so honed into what was going on. Didn't
feel like there was a dumb one whatsoever. I highly
recommend this movie to many other people, and I mean
if even if you're not much of a Batman fan,
like I just feel like this is still just a
great like detective flick that you can get into with
you know, horror elements and just like moments that are
just you're trying to figure out what's going on and
it has so much more story to it than just hey,
figure out these riddles. No, there's like a whole backstory
element to like Bruce Wayne's lineage and then Cotwoman's lineage
and all these characters and how they're all connected to
these prominent families of Gotham and everything like that. So
it's great. I'm I'm gonna give it a ten out
of ten because like, I'm super high on this movie.
And yeah, I won't say whether or not, like who's
my favorite Batman? I think I'll have to like stew
on that for a while and then they talk about
that later on.
Speaker 1: Crook Compaths.
Speaker 2: Short and Sweet ten and ten movie. It's perfect perfect Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm I'm in that same camp as I
open up, this might be my new favorite movie all time.
And after when I watched The Dark Knight and it's
been god what twelve fourteen years since then, I thought, ah,
that's never gonna happen. And I've had movies I've been closed,
but I've never had a movie where I watched it.
And of course it's a batmovie, so I have some
sort of heart there. But as I've kind of proven
with other Batman movies. There's just because I love Batman
doesn't mean it cannot be a bad experience. But performances,
home run visuals, a home run score, home run story,
home run just it's the whole movie's a home run.
It's everything I was hoping for and then some. So yeah,
ten ten, this was a great review. We're hitting the
two and a half hour mark. I thank you, gentlemen
for staying up late. I think anyone who was in
love chat or that's gonna listen to this after. Let
us know. Obviously those with the patrons sent us in,
but discord Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, let us know what you thought,
let us know what you disagree with, agree with if
we miss anything, and again too if you have any questions,
because we'll probably talk about this a little bit after
and I have in the patrons and we'll have some
more time to digest, and maybe Kerson will have some
actual quotes from at Reason. He won't just bait us
like he just did earlier.
Speaker 2: But I think I think you're miss here.
Speaker 1: I got recorded proof, ladies and gentlemen, this was the
Batman review. Thank you very much for tuning in. I
promise you and hear from his next it'll not be boring.
Speaker 2: Please h