Speaker 1: It's nice side with Dan Ray. I'm tell you Boston.
Speaker 2: Radio, tough night, tough night for the Red Sox. Dan
Speaker 2: out in Milwaukee. They led that game, won nothing for
Speaker 2: several innings, and then it all went south. Tough. It's
Speaker 2: a sort of symbolic of the season so far. But
Speaker 2: it's still early, still early, there's still hope. It's not
Speaker 2: even yet June. Now, after having two really interesting and
Speaker 2: kind of wild hours on politics and on Donald Trump's
Speaker 2: crusade against Harvard University, we all should take a deep breath.
Speaker 2: And as I said to my friend Theodore in Baltimore,
Speaker 2: there are several post two thousand and twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: or analytics done of voters by age, by racial background,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And Theodore, when you were telling me that
Speaker 2: Harris won ninety five percent of the black vote, that's
Speaker 2: just not so. She got eighty one percent of the
Speaker 2: black vote. And that's again, if she got ninety five percent,
Speaker 2: should be mad in president. So I just couldn't let
Speaker 2: that one go again. Your opinions and your thoughts are
Speaker 2: always welcome here. I hope you know that whether we
Speaker 2: agree or disagree, but on factual issues, I try to
Speaker 2: pull everybody along when I just think, you know, if
Speaker 2: you had said she won eighty five percent of the vote,
Speaker 2: I would have let that go because she got eighty
Speaker 2: four percent. But to bump it up to ninety five percent, no,
Speaker 2: that she would have been mad, as I say, Matt
Speaker 2: in president. Anyway, Anyway, she won eighty one percent of
Speaker 2: the vote. Excuse me, not eighty eighty five percent. Eighty
Speaker 2: one percent of the vote. And in twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: check it out. Check it out theato next time you call,
Speaker 2: I hope you will have checked it out and refreshed
Speaker 2: your recollection on that. Now, I'd like to introduce a
Speaker 2: guest who I interviewed. Uh, and we can kind of
Speaker 2: relax everybody, Okay, that we can take we can take
Speaker 2: the temperature down a little bit.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And I had a very interesting guest. Her name is
Speaker 2: Jill Robin Payne. She's a licensed psychotherapist and communication coach.
Speaker 2: And we're in the communication business. We all are. We
Speaker 2: all are, whether or not you're a talk show host
Speaker 2: or you're a caller to a talk show, or whatever
Speaker 2: sort of work you do, we're all in the communication business.
Speaker 2: If we're bus drivers, if we're steel workers, we're baseball players,
Speaker 2: if we're lawyers, doctors, whatever, communication is part of it.
Speaker 2: And my guest, Jill Robin Pain, has come up with
Speaker 2: the concept of empathy, empathy with a be in front
Speaker 2: of it. Everybody knows what empathy means. You feel a
Speaker 2: connection with other people, and you put a be in
Speaker 2: front of it and it becomes as opposed to empathy,
Speaker 2: it's empathy. Jill Robin Pain, welcome back to Night's Side.
Speaker 2: And we talked in February. It's been too long. How
Speaker 2: are you.
Speaker 4: I'm good, Dan, How are you doing.
Speaker 2: I just went through two sort of tong war hours.
Speaker 2: We were talking about President Trump's war on Harvard and
Speaker 2: whether or not that is the smartest thing for him
Speaker 2: to be doing politically in the context of what else
Speaker 2: is going on. And we had some strong opinions on
Speaker 2: both sides of that issue. And we've put that issue
Speaker 2: behind us because what we want to do is figure
Speaker 2: out empathy. This is a concept that you've developed. I
Speaker 2: can't say you've invented it, but you've developed it.
Speaker 3: Correct, right, I developed it right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to use the right word. I don't
Speaker 2: want to overstate it. I don't want to understate it tell.
Speaker 4: Us what oh heck, yeah.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no. Look, I just was
Speaker 2: criticizing a caller who was citing ninety five percent versus
Speaker 2: eighty one percent. That's a big difference. So the question
Speaker 2: I have is explain to us how you came to
Speaker 2: this concept. And I'm hoping that folks are going to
Speaker 2: participate in this conversation and either agree or disagree with
Speaker 2: with the value of the concept. So talk to us
Speaker 2: how did this this concept come to be?
Speaker 4: Well, one, just by what you were talking about, how
Speaker 4: people put emotion with their words and their conversation, and
Speaker 4: so they get very passionate over things, and so that
Speaker 4: was one of the reasons I did come up with this. Also,
Speaker 4: we're overloaded with that digital noise. It's fast talk, quick reactions,
Speaker 4: and we're losing that genuine connection that we used to
Speaker 4: have when we did a lot of face to face.
Speaker 4: Even you know, right before COVID, we were still starting
Speaker 4: to lose it because a lot of people were doing
Speaker 4: more digital and less face to face. So I came
Speaker 4: up with this. And empathy is a simple, powerful blend
Speaker 4: of empathy and life harded banter, just like you said,
Speaker 4: And what the banter does Dan is it breaks the
Speaker 4: ice and it builds comfort and empathy grounds the conversation
Speaker 4: and compassion and true connection. And when people start getting heated,
Speaker 4: you know, in empathy there I have something called TP
Speaker 4: and it's not toilet paper. It's timing and position. And
Speaker 4: they've done studies DAN when people start getting upset and
Speaker 4: they talk about things that they're angry about, they get
Speaker 4: angrier and angry or angrier. So sometimes it's really good,
Speaker 4: right when they're starting to get angry at a certain level,
Speaker 4: that we stop it and redirect it some way if
Speaker 4: you can, because when it gets where they're infuriated, it's
Speaker 4: really too late to even do empathy. So you know,
Speaker 4: I mean that's just how it is. So it's basically
Speaker 4: being aware of things and it's talk less, connect more.
Speaker 4: That's empathy, and it's a communication shortcut works with everybody.
Speaker 4: And of course there's going to be exceptions to the rule,
Speaker 4: and you have a win win mindset. So the way
Speaker 4: you do empathy is are you ready?
Speaker 3: Yes? Start?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you start with empathy, So you don't start with
Speaker 4: the banner. You start with empathy, and then you respond
Speaker 4: with banter, and then you focus on a win, win.
Speaker 4: So you want the person to have a win, win,
Speaker 4: and the otherwards just to feel that they are winning.
Speaker 4: They don't, they don't need to win. It's their perception.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I've got a couple of questions. I got
Speaker 2: a couple of questions here. Okay, when I think of
Speaker 2: the word you said, we start with empathy. When I
Speaker 2: think of empathy, I think of and I know what
Speaker 2: the definition is, but I feel that it's it's it's
Speaker 2: a two, it's a combination of two things. It's feel
Speaker 2: it's be able to feel sorry for a situation that
Speaker 2: someone is in or circumstance that they find themselves dealing with.
Speaker 2: But but it is also done in a way in
Speaker 2: which you maintain the dignity of that other person. I mean,
Speaker 2: let me use an example. If I see someone walking
Speaker 2: down the street who's on a couple of crutches, uh,
Speaker 2: and that they have they had knee surgery or they
Speaker 2: had ankle surgery, Well, I think to myself, you know, gee,
Speaker 2: that's a tough, tough situation. I don't know how they
Speaker 2: hurt themselves. But you have to feel sorry as a
Speaker 2: human being. And obviously, if you see someone you realize
Speaker 2: that's a temporary circumstance, and that six months from now
Speaker 2: they'll be out of the cast and they won't be
Speaker 2: using the crutches, and they'll find there are other people
Speaker 2: who you see who have even greater physical limitations. And
Speaker 2: you you want to know you you want to feel empathy. Okay,
Speaker 2: So I understand the concept of empathy. But when when
Speaker 2: we're having a conversation with someone and you talk about bantering,
Speaker 2: bantering is like, to me, very light hearted, light hearted,
Speaker 2: light hearted conversation. So we're talking about the weather, We're
Speaker 2: talking about the fact that what we hope to do
Speaker 2: this weekend. I'm going to go play golf. You're going
Speaker 2: to go to the beach. Oh, that's going to be wonderful.
Speaker 2: Hope the weather is good for both of us. So hot.
Speaker 2: So give me some circumstances where when we come back here,
Speaker 2: I got to take a quick break for a couple
Speaker 2: of commercials, But I want to hear a couple of
Speaker 2: circumstances where maybe empathy is used to either diffuse a situation.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have hot conversations here with people during
Speaker 2: the night where we're arguing politics or arguing some issue,
Speaker 2: or when a red Sox fans argue with a Yankee fans.
Speaker 2: So I want to know what, how how my listeners
Speaker 2: can improve their relationships with others through this concept that
Speaker 2: you have developed called bempathy. Fair question.
Speaker 4: I can't wait good enough after the break.
Speaker 2: After the break, we'll be back. My guest a licensed psychotherapist,
Speaker 2: Jill Robin Paine, talking about empathy. And by the way,
Speaker 2: this is not intended to be hot conversation. This is
Speaker 2: an opportunity for you to ask a question, make a comment.
Speaker 2: Tell me if you buy into the concept. If you
Speaker 2: don't buy into the concept, tell me why. That's what
Speaker 2: this is about. This is just kind of a little
Speaker 2: slow down for us. Every once in a while we
Speaker 2: have to sort of expand our horizons here, folks, so
Speaker 2: stick with us. We'll be back on night Side. My
Speaker 2: guest Jill Robin Pain. After this on nightside, you're on
Speaker 2: night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: All right, my guest is Jill Robin Pain. My phone
Speaker 2: lines are wide open six four ten thirty six one
Speaker 2: seven nine ten thirty. Jill. The challenge, as I expressed
Speaker 2: it before the break, give us an example of empathy
Speaker 2: which can be utilized uh in day to day living,
Speaker 2: or however you give us a good example.
Speaker 4: Of Okay, I'm going to this just happened to me.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you brought it up. It happened about three
Speaker 4: or four days ago, and I had a difficult situation.
Speaker 4: I was doing a good deed. A business friend of
Speaker 4: mine called me up and I won't mention names, and said,
Speaker 4: you know, hey, listen, I have a friend, a mutual
Speaker 4: friend of ours, business friend, and she's having problems with
Speaker 4: relationships and I'd really appreciate it if you could spend
Speaker 4: the time with her and talk to her. And they
Speaker 4: wanted me to be the therapist, so listen, I can't
Speaker 4: be a therapist. I had them get my book meeting people.
Speaker 4: It's not a game. I said, get my book, have
Speaker 4: her listen to it, and then we'll go over that.
Speaker 4: So they got the book. They didn't really do anything
Speaker 4: with it. They hadn't read it yet. Anyway, So I
Speaker 4: get there, it's a dinner and we're sitting down right away,
Speaker 4: I'm going to just call her Alice. Okay, so Alice
Speaker 4: was the one with the issue, and then uh, Joan,
Speaker 4: I'm going to write it to own storey, I remember anyway,
Speaker 4: and Joan was my my friend, business friend that called
Speaker 4: me to have help Alice. So Alice is talking and
Speaker 4: she's talking, Dan, I am telling you, she is just
Speaker 4: getting angrier and angrier about how this person was treating
Speaker 4: her and how it's you know, all all the people
Speaker 4: from the opposite sex are just awful blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: So I went and uh, I said, you know, gave
Speaker 4: her some feedback. And when I was giving her feedback
Speaker 4: that Dan, you could just look at her eyes. They
Speaker 4: were giving me daggers if there were daggers coming out
Speaker 4: of her eyes, and there to help her, and I'm
Speaker 4: there to help her, So I did. I did my empathy,
Speaker 4: and empathy is to feel with someone, not for someone,
Speaker 4: like I'm not gonna feel for you, I'm gonna feel
Speaker 4: with you. And so as she's gone rocketing, I put
Speaker 4: my hand out and I literally said whoa. And I
Speaker 4: smiled and shook my head. Because you want to feel
Speaker 4: warm and appear warm and open. So your body movements
Speaker 4: are really important. And if you're even on the phone,
Speaker 4: people can honestly tell if you're smiling. And so I said,
Speaker 4: I said, whoa. I said I'm here for you, Alice.
Speaker 4: I've made time. I cleared out my schedule just so
Speaker 4: I could be with you and empathize with you. I
Speaker 4: use the word and empathize with you and help you out.
Speaker 4: And she toned down a little bit, got a little
Speaker 4: bit better, then went on talking again and started skyrocketing
Speaker 4: where she was getting angry because they've already done studies
Speaker 4: dan people that are angry about something. When you start
Speaker 4: talking about anger or issues that get you angry, you
Speaker 4: get angrier. So the best thing to do if the
Speaker 4: best thing to do is either redirect or or start
Speaker 4: talking about what you want, find a compromise. And that's
Speaker 4: also in empathy. I have, you know, my three characters,
Speaker 4: A leader, a follower, and a compromiser beacon bright and both.
Speaker 4: So I was all of those people. And so then
Speaker 4: I had her, Uh what else did I do? I
Speaker 4: had her refocus? Now I always come with a I'm
Speaker 4: a psychotherapist. I always come with a notebook. And I
Speaker 4: believe that people, when you get them refocused, it doesn't
Speaker 4: matter what age, especially young kids, if you give them
Speaker 4: a pen and a paper or tell them even if
Speaker 4: they're on the other end of the phone, grab a
Speaker 4: because I do virtual grab a pen, have a paper,
Speaker 4: do it into your phone. But have them focus on
Speaker 4: something that they have control over, because when people get upset,
Speaker 4: a lot of times they're out of control. So I
Speaker 4: did that, she did the paper. It also gets them
Speaker 4: to do something about empathy, which one of the big
Speaker 4: things is empathy is a mind that you need to
Speaker 4: step back so you can see the big picture. She
Speaker 4: could look at what I had her do, which was
Speaker 4: right down the characteristics of the person she's looking for, and.
Speaker 2: Right away set the scene here a little bit for me.
Speaker 2: You're at this okay, this is a dinner party, and
Speaker 2: how many people other people are at the table.
Speaker 4: Right, So the dynamics were my friend, I'm going to say,
Speaker 4: was Joan, and then Alice and then me. So there
Speaker 4: were three people. Okay, so we're sitting down.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is almost a counseling session with a
Speaker 2: third person there. But the third person is the person
Speaker 2: who brought the two of you together. So okay, this
Speaker 2: is not a dinner table with twelve people sitting at
Speaker 2: a dining room.
Speaker 4: No no, no, no, no no no, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 4: It is a conversation and I just went there to
Speaker 4: talk to Banter with empathy. That was it, not do
Speaker 4: any therapy. Okay, So then what we did was in
Speaker 4: between all this we had fun change the subject. We
Speaker 4: bantered on that, we kidded about stuff. I had a
Speaker 4: three way. So when you have somebody else, and that
Speaker 4: is also in empathy, when you have what I call
Speaker 4: an accomplice, that's a third person that helps people see
Speaker 4: another side of the coin. I had that person there,
Speaker 4: so that also helped. And we bantered and talked a
Speaker 4: little bit about relationships blah blah blah. Anyway, so the
Speaker 4: whole time she's we're still focusing on that list and
Speaker 4: getting her to feel in control, focusing on something for
Speaker 4: her dan and it got her calm down and we
Speaker 4: were fine. I had no more daggers. That's what we did,
Speaker 4: so we did Banter. Empathy is a big part. That's
Speaker 4: why I tell people please start with empathy. Empathy is
Speaker 4: not about us, It's about the whole dynamics. Empathize with
Speaker 4: even your environment. Like I was just talking to your
Speaker 4: engineer and he was saying, it's raining there. Well, that's
Speaker 4: going to also affects how people are. So you need
Speaker 4: to look at the big picture and even see if
Speaker 4: that person in a good mood, listen to the how did.
Speaker 2: This work out with this? So this woman is looking
Speaker 2: to have a relationship with a man and it.
Speaker 3: Hasn't Yeah, you got it right, it hasn't worked out.
Speaker 2: And it would seem to me that if she's had
Speaker 2: either either the entire male population is out of sink
Speaker 2: or maybe the issue is more with her if I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to be judgmental, but but it seems to
Speaker 2: me that this was a tough situation to find yourself
Speaker 2: in because it sounds to me like whatever options you're
Speaker 2: giving her, she's just getting angry and rejecting those options
Speaker 2: and being frustrated.
Speaker 4: So she was until I did what I did so so.
Speaker 2: Bad, did what you did? And she starts to write
Speaker 2: down a list.
Speaker 4: I think she thanked me. She thanked me, right, But I.
Speaker 2: Want to get to an intellelacatory point that you asked
Speaker 2: her to write down a list of what the quality
Speaker 2: she was looking in a potential partner was.
Speaker 4: That, yes, exactly?
Speaker 2: Okay, So she was able to pull herself off the
Speaker 2: ceiling because of you had this this empathy banter empathy
Speaker 2: conversation pulled herself off the ceiling, and she was able
Speaker 2: to focus and write down several characteristics of a partner
Speaker 2: that that she was looking for.
Speaker 4: Right, so I had I got her to have control.
Speaker 4: People start flying off the handle if they're not feeling heard,
Speaker 4: they don't feel accepted, or they're just out of control.
Speaker 4: They're losing control in the conversation, and so they get
Speaker 4: real emotional with whatever they're talking about. So if when
Speaker 4: that happens, if you can, it's sort of like baseball,
Speaker 4: you're just throwing the ball back in their court and
Speaker 4: giving them a little bit of control, and then you
Speaker 4: banter back and forth. Once you get things toned down
Speaker 4: a bit, then you can move forward and talk more.
Speaker 2: Okay, So now before I before I go to the
Speaker 2: before I go to the newscast to which I have to,
Speaker 2: I just want to put a ribbon on this example. Yeah,
Speaker 2: how long ago did you have this conversation with this
Speaker 2: this woman?
Speaker 4: Three or four days ago?
Speaker 2: Okay, so therefore you have no result, uh that that
Speaker 2: you have seen. It's not like she went out the
Speaker 2: next day and met mister right.
Speaker 4: That would be too quil Oh, that's that's not gonna
Speaker 4: that's not going to happen. No, it would, it would.
Speaker 4: It's going to be a process.
Speaker 2: Okay, So is is her situation uh solvable? Resolvable? Meaning
Speaker 2: do you think upon what you saw that sure she
Speaker 2: will be able to go out and find someone who
Speaker 2: she can be comfortable with and develop a relationship despite
Speaker 2: all of her current frustrations and failures.
Speaker 4: I think everyone can do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, Okay, yeah, you're going to I hope monitor
Speaker 2: her through your friend at least and and I and
Speaker 2: I hope you know. I mean, obviously you've invested time
Speaker 2: with her, and I'm sure it'll be very satisfact, very satisfying.
Speaker 2: If at some point three months or six months or
Speaker 2: a year from now, you get a call that that
Speaker 2: that she's met someone that she's really having a good
Speaker 2: time with, I guess would be uh would.
Speaker 4: Be the that's going to be up to her. A
Speaker 4: lot of times we think that we're putting out what
Speaker 4: we want, Dan, and we really need to look at
Speaker 4: our scenery and what is in our world. Because whatever's
Speaker 4: in our world, that's what we're putting out. So we
Speaker 4: need to start looking on ourselves. I can tell you,
Speaker 4: so go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, no, I understand what you're saying is again sometimes,
Speaker 2: particularly in this situation where she had been looking for
Speaker 2: someone for a long time, and obviously that's hast all
Speaker 2: of us, at some point in our lives find ourselves
Speaker 2: in that situation. Very few people that I know meet
Speaker 2: the love of their life when they're sophomores in high
Speaker 2: school and only date that person and then fall in
Speaker 2: love and get mad and live happily ever after. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the fairy tale story that does happen. But it's
Speaker 2: the exception. It's the exception of the right. We'll take
Speaker 2: a quick break here. My guest is Jill Robin Paine.
Speaker 2: Now again, this is the sort of conversation that people
Speaker 2: are reticent to participate in because they almost have to
Speaker 2: give a little bit of themselves. So if you have
Speaker 2: a question for Jill Robin pain or if you have
Speaker 2: are still confused about the concept of empathy, and we
Speaker 2: can drill down on that a little bit, or for sure,
Speaker 2: I'm more interested in hearing from some of you six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten
Speaker 2: thirty feel free to join the conversation. Who knows this
Speaker 2: might help you in terms of your relationships at work,
Speaker 2: your relationships socially, or your relationships with people who would
Speaker 2: you would like to have a closer relationship. We'll take
Speaker 2: a quick break. Here comes the news. Light up the phones,
Speaker 2: folks again. I can do politics every night of the
Speaker 2: week and we can fill the lines when I have
Speaker 2: something different. It can be a little more challenging, Butick,
Speaker 2: guess what, I have confidence in you, and I have
Speaker 2: confidence in my audience, and feel free to join the conversation.
Speaker 2: If you're not following the conversation, best way to do
Speaker 2: it is to call and ask a question yourself. Six
Speaker 2: Mon's seven two, five, four to ten thirty six months
Speaker 2: seven nine, three one ten thirty. Will be back on
Speaker 2: Night's Side right after the news at the bottom of
Speaker 2: the hour.
Speaker 1: It's Night Side, Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: My guest is Jill Robin Pain. Jill, I think we
Speaker 2: have intimidated my audience here. We're talking about the concept
Speaker 2: of ben okay uh and it's it's funny. Rob was
Speaker 2: just telling me that there are so many times the
Speaker 2: audience will call us doing too much politics. You're doing
Speaker 2: too much politics. Well, politics for me is the coin
Speaker 2: of the realm because you open it up and you
Speaker 2: get people on both sides. And by the way, sometimes
Speaker 2: the conversations can be very heated and people are talking
Speaker 2: at one another as opposed to with one another, and
Speaker 2: sometimes we talk over each other, etc. Which can happen
Speaker 2: just like politics, sports, and religion. I think of the
Speaker 2: three areas. But the example you gave is a good one.
Speaker 2: So that means everybody in my audience must be in
Speaker 2: a really good relationship that no one out there could
Speaker 2: benefit from learning from you.
Speaker 4: This is even if you're you have a boss that
Speaker 4: you don't get along with. There's there's different things that
Speaker 4: you can do. It's I mean, relationships are really important.
Speaker 4: And when you're you know what I find I think
Speaker 4: a lot of people like to argue. Oh yeah, a
Speaker 4: lot of people.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love people who like to argue because they drama.
Speaker 2: Well it is called drama, but it's also part of
Speaker 2: what I do. My goal when I do the show
Speaker 2: and want people to call, I try to find what
Speaker 2: I call fifty to fifty topics because if I do
Speaker 2: if As a talk show host, I learned a long
Speaker 2: time ago that if I say, Okay, I love puppies,
Speaker 2: they're the cutest little things that I just love to
Speaker 2: hold puppies and play with puppies, and they're wonderful. But
Speaker 2: I'll bet you some of you hate puppies. Oh if
Speaker 2: you hate puppies, give me a call. Well, no one's
Speaker 2: going to call on that. So so I like to
Speaker 2: find fifty to fifty topics, and Donald Trump is one
Speaker 2: of those topics. Fifty percent the people love him, fifty
Speaker 2: percent of the people kind of buy them. And even
Speaker 2: even it's very difficult to get someone on one side
Speaker 2: or the other to say, you know what, I like
Speaker 2: what he's doing, but I think he's making a mistake,
Speaker 2: or someone saying, well, I don't like him at all,
Speaker 2: but on this area, I think he's going in the
Speaker 2: right direction. So a part of me, I'm not a
Speaker 2: professional sociologist, but as a talk show host, she got
Speaker 2: to have a little bit of a concept of sociology
Speaker 2: within you. And I hope that some of my listeners will.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about when you have I know people who
Speaker 2: have difficult bosses and the bosses. Here's what I say
Speaker 2: about bosses, and I've never I've never been a boss.
Speaker 2: I've been in positions where I was in theory the boss,
Speaker 2: but I've never been in management, but I've been in
Speaker 2: situations where I work with people and I want to
Speaker 2: encourage people on my show and Rob, I don't consider
Speaker 2: my Rob is my producer at night. I don't consider
Speaker 2: myself Rob's boss because I'm not. I don't hire, I
Speaker 2: don't fire. But if I'm working on a subject, I
Speaker 2: will ask Rob, hey, what do you think we might
Speaker 2: do here? I'm not going to necessarily accept the because
Speaker 2: I'm the one that's got to implement the idea. If
Speaker 2: Rob says to me, well, let's talk about you know,
Speaker 2: the difference between you know, blue canaries and yellow canaries,
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, Rob, what do you been drinking hair?
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's get down a business. But when you
Speaker 2: do have a manager, and whether or not it's a
Speaker 2: manager in baseball or a manager at your job, I
Speaker 2: think most bosses vastly underrate the benefit of complimenting an employer.
Speaker 2: They I think too many bosses that I've known think, well,
Speaker 2: the most important thing is how much you get paid. No,
Speaker 2: it's not. I think the most important thing that a
Speaker 2: boss can do is show appreciation. Obviously, try to help
Speaker 2: the employee become better and all of that, but I
Speaker 2: think that a pat on the back goes a long
Speaker 2: way to making an employer an employee wants to work harder.
Speaker 1: Right or wrong, you're exactly right.
Speaker 4: And I have Beacon Brighton and Beau or my characters,
Speaker 4: so a leader, a follower, and a compromiser, and my leader,
Speaker 4: which is Beacon. He is dressed up just like a lighthouse.
Speaker 4: Because what is a boss. A boss is a leader.
Speaker 4: They help guide you. They don't push you, they don't
Speaker 4: shove you. They model the behavior that you want them
Speaker 4: to do, and they enlighten you. And that's that's what
Speaker 4: empathy also is about. It shows how a boss needs
Speaker 4: to be more like a leader, and that that way
Speaker 4: people would want to follow him. If you push some
Speaker 4: one's it's Newton's law. If I force you, like Dan,
Speaker 4: if you forced me to come on your show, which
Speaker 4: you didn't you asked me, I asked you. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 4: if you force someone, you either get resistance or you
Speaker 4: push them away. It's Newton's law. So when you are
Speaker 4: a boss, it's better to be just like a lighthouse
Speaker 4: and think like a lighthouse. What do they do? They
Speaker 4: help guide people, They enlighten them, and then people want
Speaker 4: to follow them, and so then you have a happy campers,
Speaker 4: and of course you're going to get some personalities that
Speaker 4: are going to conflict. It's very rare, though, if you
Speaker 4: really listen to people, and everybody has a different language.
Speaker 4: So this is what I tell people. You look at
Speaker 4: the dynamics. It's like Reagan when he was doing the
Speaker 4: agreement with Gorbachev getting the wall to go down. The
Speaker 4: first lady made sure that there was a fireplace, and
Speaker 4: there were cushiony chairs, and they didn't face each other,
Speaker 4: and the lights were dim. All these things affect how
Speaker 4: people react to you. So these are things that we
Speaker 4: all need to think about when we're going to see
Speaker 4: our boss. Is he in a good mood. You might
Speaker 4: want to give him some coffee. When someone has something
Speaker 4: warm in their hands, they warm up to you. So
Speaker 4: these are just things to think about when you are talking.
Speaker 4: You need to think of a big picture.
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny, I mean you mentioned Ragan. I think
Speaker 2: Reagan was the best president of the second half of
Speaker 2: the twentieth century. I think Roosevelt was the best president
Speaker 2: of the first half of the twentieth century. And often
Speaker 2: great presidents are rated upon what they accomplish and well,
Speaker 2: obviously Roosevelt led the nation out of a depression and
Speaker 2: led the nation through World War Two. Reagan was able
Speaker 2: to overcome the scourge of communism not only here but
Speaker 2: also abroad. And he was able to fight and a
Speaker 2: Soviet leader in Gorbachev, with whom he could create a
Speaker 2: relationship with and and and brought freedom to for a
Speaker 2: long time to Eastern Europe, which is still free. Uh
Speaker 2: and and and some freedom to the Russian people. But
Speaker 2: it's funny we we well, we think about, for example,
Speaker 2: World War two, we think about George Patten as the
Speaker 2: great leader and and Patten had a lot of flaws.
Speaker 2: He was he was a great general and a great strategist,
Speaker 2: but he had some issues personally, it seemed to me.
Speaker 2: And yet I think very gruff and and he enjoyed
Speaker 2: being that way. Okay. Eisenhower, on the other hand, who
Speaker 2: was the NATO commander uh and was really in charge
Speaker 2: of everything, including D Day. He took a situation and
Speaker 2: again I think that that I think Eisenhower was a
Speaker 2: was a better leader, and he was rewarded with that
Speaker 2: by becoming President of the United States. Uh. We have
Speaker 2: these you have these, these these people that are held
Speaker 2: up vice Lombadi is a great football coach and all
Speaker 2: of that or you know, but sometimes the best football
Speaker 2: coach can be someone like Belichick, who was pretty quiet.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he was not a screamer or
Speaker 2: a yeller. He had a lot of he had a
Speaker 2: lot of flaws. I don't know if if you follow him,
Speaker 2: but he was miserable when the team lost, and he
Speaker 2: showed it and uh and it used to be really
Speaker 2: interesting to watch him with his postgame news conferences and
Speaker 2: the media guys would say to Belichick, well, what happened, coach?
Speaker 2: You lost today? Why did you lose? Which was a
Speaker 2: stupid question but or something like that, and Belichick would say,
Speaker 2: the other team scored more points. What's your next question?
Speaker 2: Almost like the answer. You know, he didn't have to say,
Speaker 2: you're an idiot for asking that question. That what? But
Speaker 2: it was the way it was, the way it was
Speaker 2: the way it works. So the relationships and let's we
Speaker 2: have to talk about relationships between partners in life, spouses,
Speaker 2: and I want to talk about that when we come back,
Speaker 2: because sometimes even in good marriages, you get to the
Speaker 2: point where you are just at loggerheads with the other person.
Speaker 2: And how do you know, how do you work that
Speaker 2: relationship which is the most, the closest and the most
Speaker 2: intimate relationship with the concept of empathy. And again, my
Speaker 2: audience is failing me totally here. I'm embarrassed, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: I get asked questions all night long. That's what I
Speaker 2: do for a living. And I'm not even gonna give
Speaker 2: the phone number because you I'm going to enjoy our
Speaker 2: conversation with the balance of the of the program. Uh.
Speaker 2: And I'll put the audience on notice that I am
Speaker 2: not doing what we normally we do a postgame analysis
Speaker 2: of the show that will not happen. Tonight. We'll be
Speaker 2: back on Nightside with my guest who is a licensed
Speaker 2: psycho therapist and has introduced us to what I think
Speaker 2: is an important concept, the idea of empathy, which is
Speaker 2: a combination of the word banter and empathy. So you
Speaker 2: you diffuse the situation by having maybe you get away
Speaker 2: from the area that is not working well for you.
Speaker 2: I think I'm buying into this, and we'll continue our conversation.
Speaker 2: My guest, Jill Robin Pain back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: It's Night Side, Boston's News radio.
Speaker 2: My guest we're talking about Bempathy is Jill Robin Pain.
Speaker 2: And if you've been listening, I think you say what
Speaker 2: empathy is, Joe. We do have a couple of callers
Speaker 2: who I want to get to. But let's talk. How
Speaker 2: do you how do you break through when you're in
Speaker 2: this a disagreement with your spouse over something. I don't
Speaker 2: know which side, whether whether the salt or the Peppa
Speaker 2: shaker is on the right of the left or whatever.
Speaker 2: What do you do on one of those things that
Speaker 2: just bugs the other person that that you do. I
Speaker 2: do a lot of things that bug my wife.
Speaker 1: But how do you give me?
Speaker 4: Can you give me an example? Because oh I.
Speaker 2: Can give you the classic example is the toilet paper.
Speaker 2: Does the toilet paper go over or under the roll?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, you know you're gonna say pick your battles.
Speaker 5: One thing, it's how people talk. So if people are
Speaker 5: gonna talk, you're gonna need to put some humor in
Speaker 5: it and focus on what the real thing.
Speaker 1: Is bothering you.
Speaker 4: What's what's bothering you about that? So again, you need
Speaker 4: to empathize with your partner. Really you need to empathize.
Speaker 4: Let me tell you. The best way to talk to
Speaker 4: your partner is in bed. And I don't mean after
Speaker 4: sex or before sex. I just mean lying down in
Speaker 4: bed chit chatting because it's yeah, it's you're in a
Speaker 4: reclined position. You're both it's a it's a nice comfortable feel.
Speaker 4: You can be hugging, hugging each other. It's very hard
Speaker 4: to get mad when you're discussing in that position.
Speaker 2: All right, let me do this. I have I have
Speaker 2: the phone lines have exploded. Why they've exploded this Lake
Speaker 2: Bud only knows. But let's go to the mall. Peter
Speaker 2: and Everette. Peter, you are next on night Side. I
Speaker 2: appreciate you calling in. Peter on with Jill, Robin Pink.
Speaker 2: Go right ahead, Hi, Peter. Well, if Peter isn't there,
Speaker 2: we'll put Peter on hold. Okay, we'll come back to Peter.
Speaker 2: Let me go to Frank in Montreal. Frank, how are you, sir? Hi?
Speaker 6: Frank good Dan? How are you good? Good? Good? And
Speaker 6: I'm trying to see if I could understand this correctly.
Speaker 6: But would your theory or not theory but study apply
Speaker 6: to a person? Disorder went out went out?
Speaker 2: You broke up on us? There for a second, Frank,
Speaker 2: what type of disorder.
Speaker 6: A personality disorder, and more specifically a narcissist would empathy
Speaker 6: and banter kind of go together? And my experience has
Speaker 6: been at least of the narcissist, you constantly have to
Speaker 6: appease their their ego. But then you know, you try
Speaker 6: to I guess get your point across, but very very gently.
Speaker 6: So is that sort of banter and empathy? And or
Speaker 6: is that? Am I away?
Speaker 2: Craig. I think that's a great question. And if you
Speaker 2: can be as direct as you can on this one, Jill,
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Okay, So Frank, first of all, there's very few people
Speaker 4: that are narcissistic. And second, you need to think about
Speaker 4: you and what you want to accomplish in your conversation
Speaker 4: with your person. And one let's not even call the
Speaker 4: person a narcissist. Let's call them someone that has a
Speaker 4: personality issue that's going to make it better. And then
Speaker 4: you need to think about what do you want to accomplish,
Speaker 4: do you want to win? What do you want from
Speaker 4: this situation? More there too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm sorry if this is a bad connection. I
Speaker 6: guess I'm trying to see or have them realize sometimes
Speaker 6: that they are that they need to change their their.
Speaker 3: Approach to got it.
Speaker 4: I got it. So you're gonna need to instead of
Speaker 4: talk about you or them, talk about something that takes
Speaker 4: you away. So when we talk about third person, like
Speaker 4: if you're talking to yourself and you say Frank likes
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, it sort of pulls you away from
Speaker 4: the situation. So when you're talking to this other person
Speaker 4: let's call her Jane, let's say talk to her and say, gosh,
Speaker 4: when people do things like this, this is what happens.
Speaker 4: And I've heard that when people do this, they can
Speaker 4: have this. Does that make sense? Take it away from
Speaker 4: the two of you, because otherwise that person is going
Speaker 4: to get defensive. Did I help you out?
Speaker 6: Yep? Very good, Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2: Appreciate the call very much. My friend will talk.
Speaker 6: Sooner, okay, Frank, okay, good, thank you.
Speaker 2: Let me get quick, Jim and Kingston. Jim, go right ahead.
Speaker 2: We only have about a minute if if that for you,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 3: Jim, Okay. Actually, just curious, is this an audio book
Speaker 3: that we can listen to or is this an actual
Speaker 3: print book? Uh So, I'm not sure how to get okay.
Speaker 4: So three of them are are written and then one
Speaker 4: is written in audio, and it's My Meeting People. It's
Speaker 4: not a game, and that's the one that has a
Speaker 4: lot of things on what you're all talking about with relationships.
Speaker 4: Meeting people. It's not a game. So if you get
Speaker 4: my book, you can you can ask me questions in
Speaker 4: an email, O call.
Speaker 2: Me, give us the book again, Meeting people is not
Speaker 2: a game.
Speaker 4: Uh huh. Meeting people, it's not a game, and it
Speaker 4: is on audio and it says your path to genuine
Speaker 4: connections through empathy.
Speaker 2: All right, perfect, Jim, that's a great question. I was
Speaker 2: going to have to ask that question as well to
Speaker 2: the call is called Lake Christine and John. I'm very sorry,
Speaker 2: but we're flat out of time. Jill. If folks want
Speaker 2: to contact you, get the book and they can get in.
Speaker 4: Contact with you, please please go to my website Joe
Speaker 4: Robinpain dot com. My email's there, everything's there, and I'm
Speaker 4: also on all the platforms and you just say that
Speaker 4: you okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, I gotta go, Thanks Jill, thank you so much,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for your time. Tonight, I'll end
Speaker 2: us all we there's no there's no postgame tonight, but
Speaker 2: I only have about ten seconds today. All dogs, all cats,
Speaker 2: all pets go to heaven. That's my pale Charlie Ray
Speaker 2: is the passed fifteen years ago in February. That's one
Speaker 2: of your pets are past. They love you, You love them.
Speaker 2: You'll see them again. I will see you later this
Speaker 2: week on night Side. Have a great Wednesday and Thursday everyone,