Speaker 1: With some bad.
Speaker 2: Start time movies. Right now, you're right, right, right, right,
Speaker 2: right time to do one for.
Speaker 1: Time with yeh it with I show you're gonna ruling it,
Speaker 1: except you're simmer. We pursuing it, followed out Shaw shank
Speaker 1: through the sewer, Kid, Now what chilling at the eagle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're doing it. Three o'clock on the dock. Got a
Speaker 1: habit for my house, a goat status, Howard starting to
Speaker 1: get cratic shows that up multiplied like a rabbit d
Speaker 1: end zone out, creak it up, feed the habit.
Speaker 2: I wanthg out. You know a friend rocking on the radio.
Speaker 2: My boy's.
Speaker 3: Talking and albinios to begin all baby baby go, Kati
Speaker 3: Christine up in all that long radio.
Speaker 4: Shocking news coming down today that Mike McCarthy is out
Speaker 4: as head coach of the Dallas Cowboys after five seasons.
Speaker 4: He and Jerry are parting ways, and I gotta say
Speaker 4: I'm incredibly surprised. After the Cowboys said no, Mike, you can't.
Speaker 2: Interview with the Bears. We're not giving them permission, they
Speaker 2: proceeded to negotiate. I guess through. I guess through today.
Speaker 4: I think his deal expires tomorrow and decided, Hey, I
Speaker 4: don't think we can come to an agreement here, let's
Speaker 4: part ways. And so the most shocking thing about it
Speaker 4: is it's a whole new level of dysfunction that they
Speaker 4: the Cowboys, weren't even allowed to talk to the guys
Speaker 4: who are coaching on playoff teams because they spent that
Speaker 4: whole time negotiating with a guy that they weren't going
Speaker 4: to keep. Yeah, and I think, on top of that,
Speaker 4: how do you not get your man? Like? In other words,
Speaker 4: what they're really telling you is, we don't even care
Speaker 4: who the man is. We may or may not get
Speaker 4: this guy who knows Like, think about that. Do you
Speaker 4: when do you negotiate with a coach that you want
Speaker 4: and not get him? That doesn't happen. So they clearly
Speaker 4: didn't want him. But then that means that if he'd
Speaker 4: accepted their terms, they would have taken the guy they
Speaker 4: didn't want, right, What the hell part of me thinks
Speaker 4: they want Witten? But Witten's not going to be available
Speaker 4: till his kids a graduate or whatever. And I think
Speaker 4: he's got two more years left, like with his one
Speaker 4: of his kids is a phenom, right or both?
Speaker 5: I'm not sure on the kids. I know there's one
Speaker 5: in one or two in high school. I will say
Speaker 5: that Nick Harris of the Fourth Star Telegram did right,
Speaker 5: and his piece of just kind of throwing on a
Speaker 5: much candidates is says, regardless of if Witton lands the
Speaker 5: head coaching job, it's widely expected that he will be
Speaker 5: on the Cowboys staff in twenty twenty five and some
Speaker 5: from Nick Harris at the Telegrams fantastic.
Speaker 2: So, by the way, that's good, right.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't you want him if you're eventually going to be
Speaker 4: the coach, wouldn't you want him to have some staff
Speaker 4: work first?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And maybe that's why.
Speaker 4: Maybe McCarthy's like, wait, you want me to sit here
Speaker 4: and groom witting, like you want me to take a
Speaker 4: two year deal. I can go get a four or
Speaker 4: five year deal. I don't need a two year and
Speaker 4: and Jerry's like, Wade did it. Well, let's uh, let's
Speaker 4: backtrack second, because the.
Speaker 5: The Cowboys put out a statement and cool Jerry said,
Speaker 5: prior to reaching the point of contract negotiations, it became
Speaker 5: mutually mutually clear that it would be better for each
Speaker 5: of us to head in a different direction. So what
Speaker 5: is contract negotiations is that money or is that length?
Speaker 4: It's both because or or it could be roll yeah,
Speaker 4: right could could it could also be hey, look, we
Speaker 4: want to have somebody else call plays offensively.
Speaker 5: And one of the guys who's tight with McCarthy has
Speaker 5: been since screen based, Tom Pellisero the NFL network.
Speaker 2: Here's what he just said. He's also a sparkling drinker. Right,
Speaker 2: so yes, pedaci u plegro.
Speaker 5: Contract negotiations are by definition and exchange of bargaining proposals
Speaker 5: as opposed to the informal talks. The bottom line is
Speaker 5: that as the size is discussed how to move forward,
Speaker 5: they couldn't agree on contract length. And now I've parted ways,
Speaker 5: Jerry said two years and the same amount of money
Speaker 5: I was paying.
Speaker 2: You, Right, I think I think Skin's exactly right.
Speaker 4: The biggest and most embarrassing thing is they decided, all right,
Speaker 4: if we can get this guy for just a few
Speaker 4: amount of years below market value, will get him. And
Speaker 4: then they couldn't, And now they didn't get the guy.
Speaker 4: They're telling you and we knew it. We knew it,
Speaker 4: But they're telling you we don't really value that right,
Speaker 4: We're and we're not willing to pay top dollar for
Speaker 4: someone that's really good at it, and it's why they've
Speaker 4: sucked for thirty years.
Speaker 2: Well no, no, no, no, I'm wrong. That's not fair.
Speaker 2: They have not sucked.
Speaker 4: It's why they have not been good enough to do
Speaker 4: big things because when you get to this level, there's
Speaker 4: no spare coaches. It's very rare that spare coaches get
Speaker 4: you to the highest levels. There's like, you have to
Speaker 4: have the talent, you have to have the health, you
Speaker 4: have to have the system, and you have to have
Speaker 4: the coaching. All those things work in concert, and so
Speaker 4: they don't put a premium on the coaching.
Speaker 2: They haven't.
Speaker 5: They haven't done an extensive coaching search in eighteen years, because.
Speaker 4: You know what you do, and you do an extensive
Speaker 4: coaching search, you go outside your little liddy bitty circle
Speaker 4: and you get other opinions and you understand what trends
Speaker 4: are happening in the game, the best way in any sport.
Speaker 4: I mean this, in any sport, the best way to understand.
Speaker 4: Oh dude, our friend John Daniels, when he left the Rangers,
Speaker 4: he went and spent some time with the Marlins, and
Speaker 4: you know, and was immediately like, oh, here I am
Speaker 4: in a situation learning from some people that are doing
Speaker 4: great things.
Speaker 2: I don't know everything. For the raise, oh the raise,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sure, I'm fish based Florida team. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my bad.
Speaker 4: And so my whole point is that if you just
Speaker 4: stay in your own little circle, which is what the
Speaker 4: Cowboys do, the game evolves and goes elsewhere. And they
Speaker 4: don't do extensive searches, they don't go interact with other circles.
Speaker 4: They they're in their own little orbit. And that's why
Speaker 4: they haven't had high level success and one of the
Speaker 4: reasons they haven't had a high level success in a
Speaker 4: really long time.
Speaker 5: But by your tone, I sense that you're saying today
Speaker 5: is a bad thing. No, no, no, today is just fine.
Speaker 4: But its status quo because they're gonna go get Riverboat
Speaker 4: Ron or they're gonna get some guy that somebody else
Speaker 4: at North Turner knew it.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna be. It's not gonna be what any
Speaker 2: of us want. It's just okay. So I'll put it
Speaker 2: to you like this.
Speaker 4: I decided I wanted McCarthy gone midway through the season,
Speaker 4: and I was convinced it was gonna be Belichick, because
Speaker 4: I think Belichick really wanted the job.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't rull that out.
Speaker 4: And I thought the Cowboys were very sick of McCarthy.
Speaker 4: But then you started hearing stuff is the season on.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I think he's staying. And so the
Speaker 4: way that they approached it by not firing him immediately,
Speaker 4: that made me think, all right, they want to keep McCarthy.
Speaker 2: So I kind of sold myself on the up side
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 4: And now they botched that, and so they missed the
Speaker 4: opportunity to interview any of these playoff coaches. So they
Speaker 4: still they were gonna keep McCarthy and they don't even
Speaker 4: value him that much.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 5: Well, the playoff coaches, I do think if those guys
Speaker 5: are starting going okay, but the Cowboys very much think, well,
Speaker 5: you'll come to the Cowboys.
Speaker 2: I saw. It's a small sample size.
Speaker 5: Here's a poll in the Athletic Today where five NFL
Speaker 5: coaches were asked at the remaining jobs's which one is
Speaker 5: the most like, the most desirable. Four of the five
Speaker 5: guys said the Cowboys.
Speaker 2: Another guy like.
Speaker 5: To like the So I think the Cowboys like we'll interview,
Speaker 5: we'll interview, Like I don't think they're gonna interview Ben
Speaker 5: Johnson but I'm just using that as a name, and
Speaker 5: they're like, well, we'll interview into you two weeks.
Speaker 2: You'll come to us. We're the cowboys. Those are always
Speaker 2: better than you. I'll interview Kellen. Is that a Kellen Kellen?
Speaker 4: I think Kellen's happened. I think Kellen's the leader in
Speaker 4: the club back too. Is there a way I think they?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 2: Is there a way for him in and to work together?
Speaker 2: Like could Witten work under Kellen?
Speaker 1: Moore?
Speaker 2: Burward?
Speaker 4: Kellen know that, Okay, he's gonna take my job in
Speaker 4: a couple of years, just like McCarthy would have known
Speaker 4: that with a short deal.
Speaker 5: To me, Witten needs to come in and be the
Speaker 5: quarterback coach or the wide receiver.
Speaker 2: That makes all the sense in the world.
Speaker 4: Why couldn't he be the offensive coordinator under a guy
Speaker 4: named under a guy out like Kellen? He would he
Speaker 4: could be Yeah, he'd be offense. He could, just like
Speaker 4: Schottenheimer was a ordinator under. It make all the sense
Speaker 4: of the world. But we're not talking about a sensical organization. No.
Speaker 2: They do whatever they want and they are so dysfunctional.
Speaker 5: And this the thing is, if we're gonna talk Kellen,
Speaker 5: we should say we should throw Cliff in there in
Speaker 5: the mix. I don't think Clif's a great fit here
Speaker 5: with Dak who can't move anymore. But how much of
Speaker 5: this is Jerry watching these games yesterday and Kellen and
Speaker 5: Cliff advance.
Speaker 2: In your division? They advance.
Speaker 4: Here's the most painful thing of all of me that
Speaker 4: might have been a part of this. Here's the most
Speaker 4: painful thing of all of it, all of it. If
Speaker 4: you had just made the decision last year when they
Speaker 4: didn't go, when they didn't do crap in the playoffs,
Speaker 4: you could have Dan and Kellen here together right now.
Speaker 2: Dan Quinn who everyone loves. Yeah, the problem is you'd
Speaker 2: be hiring a head coach. You just gave up forty
Speaker 2: eight points in a playoff loss. I mean that's the yeah.
Speaker 2: But that's why it didn't happen.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 4: But I mean you've got to You've got to understand
Speaker 4: what you have. Isn't that what Jerry just said after
Speaker 4: Week seventeen, when the Hay is in the barn, like
Speaker 4: they didn't know what they had with dan Quinn at
Speaker 4: Washington knew what you had.
Speaker 2: They went and got him and look at him, and
Speaker 2: a lot of this just kind of it's kind of
Speaker 2: making some decisions.
Speaker 4: Just kind of got to you have you have to
Speaker 4: be convicted and know what you want. That's right, it's
Speaker 4: and you know why do you know how? You know
Speaker 4: they're not convicted because the man in charge loves to
Speaker 4: say that he's got a lot of tolerance for ambiguity.
Speaker 4: He loves not knowing what's gonna happen next and not
Speaker 4: having a plan and then deciding after things or right
Speaker 4: there on your doorstep.
Speaker 2: Hey, life is challenging. We'll just make something happen when
Speaker 2: it happens.
Speaker 4: This is why they have a ten billion dollar valuation.
Speaker 4: They are all about the marketing, the buzz. They're all
Speaker 4: about being in the headlines. They're all about being talked about.
Speaker 4: That is way more important than winning. They don't care
Speaker 4: about a winning culture, so they don't care about going
Speaker 4: and getting the most qualified coach. They want the soap
Speaker 4: opera because the soap opera sells. That's why there's a
Speaker 4: ten billion dollar valuation. The priority is not winning football games.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying they're not trying to win. I'm just
Speaker 4: saying they love this stuff. They love being in the headlines.
Speaker 5: And then the answer there are some sexy plays here
Speaker 5: if they wanted to go that route, Like I mean,
Speaker 5: the sexiest of all is Dion, of course, but that's
Speaker 5: not gonna happen. But I think Ben Johnson is the
Speaker 5: is one that would make the NFL go Jesus Christ,
Speaker 5: the Cowboys watch out next year. Okay, hold on, it
Speaker 5: ain't gonna happen, and the sexiest gonna come here.
Speaker 4: The sexiest play is Jimmy, Yeah, of course, getting Jimmy
Speaker 4: out of retirement.
Speaker 2: The sexiest playing at things.
Speaker 4: I think Witten is a sexy play. It's way too early,
Speaker 4: but I could see him doing it, and I don't
Speaker 4: I promise you. If Jason Witten's not so and they're
Speaker 4: going I'm not qualified for that, he's looking at going hell, yes,
Speaker 4: I could do that. Give me that job if you want.
Speaker 4: If he really wants Witting but he's not ready to
Speaker 4: hire Witten, then I think what And I'm sorry, but
Speaker 4: if you haven't said it on the are yet, but
Speaker 4: we're talking earlier. If you really want Witt, and then
Speaker 4: Zimmer is your head coach. If you don't think Witten
Speaker 4: is ready yet, but you want him, you hire him
Speaker 4: to come in here and be your offensive coordinator, and
Speaker 4: you'd take Zimmer. Zimmer just took a one year job
Speaker 4: after sitting on the sidelines for four years or whatever.
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, I've had conversation. It's been a
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 4: He didn't return my text, But you know, a long
Speaker 4: time ago I talked to Jason Witten after his playing
Speaker 4: career and he told me he had reams of plays
Speaker 4: like that's all he thinks about, is how to come
Speaker 4: up with innovative offensive plays. Like that's his passion, so
Speaker 4: he wants to do that in the league. I don't
Speaker 4: know if that's changed, but that's what's that's his path.
Speaker 4: That was at one time, that's really what he wanted.
Speaker 2: And like, who knows what there. They may either be
Speaker 2: in a bind.
Speaker 5: This could have been a thing where McCarthy bowed up
Speaker 5: to They might I just thought McCarthy's gonna do what
Speaker 5: we say here because needs a job, And McCarthy might
Speaker 5: have been like, the hell with that, my contract's up tomorrow,
Speaker 5: I'm out, And that could have happened. I personally think
Speaker 5: McCarthy would have taken pretty much anything that was offered
Speaker 5: to him, though I don't know.
Speaker 4: That sounds like you didn't it sounds like he didn't,
Speaker 4: especially if it's his guy that's putting out there.
Speaker 2: It sounds like to say something and his guy's gonna
Speaker 2: paint it in a way that no I know.
Speaker 4: But he's being specific. He's talking about contract link. That's
Speaker 4: an indication that they talked about something. And I think
Speaker 4: it all goes back to probably what we're kicking around.
Speaker 4: And look, I personally don't think Mike McCarthy. I'll just
Speaker 4: let me just be fair and say, Mike McCarthy's the
Speaker 4: third winning US coach in Cowboy history.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he's a great fit here.
Speaker 4: But but what I'm saying is, despite having forty nine
Speaker 4: wins in five years, I don't think he's earned a
Speaker 4: long contract extension. I think if they say, Okay, we
Speaker 4: think you deserve another chance, but you deserve two years
Speaker 4: to get it done, and if you don't get it done,
Speaker 4: to me, that would scream, hey man, you don't have
Speaker 4: confidence to me here, you have a plan B, you're
Speaker 4: hiring me to fire me.
Speaker 2: I want to go somewhere where I really have a
Speaker 2: shot at winning and having a future.
Speaker 4: To me, if it's contract linked, I feel like that
Speaker 4: the Cowboys are showing that they don't value.
Speaker 2: Him very much, not offering him a long term deal.
Speaker 2: But if he got it done within two years, he'd
Speaker 2: get a big old deal.
Speaker 5: Well, because of all these things that we're bitching about
Speaker 5: about Jerry, because of that, as a big part of
Speaker 5: the reason I don't think Mike McCarthy's a great fit
Speaker 5: for the Cowboys because they should be above that, because
Speaker 5: the things we're bitching about, we think they should be
Speaker 5: above that.
Speaker 2: They're not, and they're not.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's my point is, like McCarthy is, go
Speaker 5: build a program somewhere. Okay, Bear Saints makes sense, Like
Speaker 5: I win now, head coach, the most spicy candidate, you
Speaker 5: know that you could go get go get him who's
Speaker 5: ready to win.
Speaker 2: Now, that is what should make sense for.
Speaker 4: This thing, right, so, Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson, it should
Speaker 4: make sense if he's like, I want twelve million a
Speaker 4: year or whatever it is, and I'll go to the
Speaker 4: Cowboys and I want autonomy, I want to be able
Speaker 4: to be in charge.
Speaker 2: I want to go buy the groceries. They should go
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 4: But the reason they don't is because then Jerry wouldn't
Speaker 4: be allowed to play with his toy he'll Ben Johnson
Speaker 4: will be the coach of the Bears and he'll turn
Speaker 4: it around year one.
Speaker 2: I don't think that anyone can turn the Bears around.
Speaker 2: And that's just me being hopeful. You don't believe in
Speaker 2: their quarterback. I don't believe in the Bears.
Speaker 4: Who is who is the next Cowboys head coach that
Speaker 4: would have you the most excited? Me personally Ben Johnson,
Speaker 4: But I don't think he personally would come here right
Speaker 4: same for you, KT, I'm in it for fun.
Speaker 5: Give me Gruden and we missed the nostalgic, misogynistic nostalgia
Speaker 5: of the nineties. The guys here, I would say, also,
Speaker 5: since I know Ben's not coming here, and I think
Speaker 5: both these guys would be options, I personally would want
Speaker 5: Cliff over Kellen.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay for me. For me, I would want Ben Johnson.
Speaker 4: I think he's the best guy for the job. He's
Speaker 4: the next guy you should go. Make him one of
Speaker 4: the highest paid coach in Lingo.
Speaker 1: Get him.
Speaker 2: That's not hot happening. I could.
Speaker 4: I think Kellen Moore is the way they'll go. I
Speaker 4: think Cliff will is interested in the gig and we'll
Speaker 4: be a candidate. But the one I would want is
Speaker 4: witting the unqualified one. That's just a crazy wild card.
Speaker 2: Will be fun. That would be so much fun, wearing
Speaker 2: a guy straight out of high school?
Speaker 4: Yep?
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: Probably not a lot of like badass players have coached
Speaker 4: high school either.
Speaker 5: And Jeff Saturday went from the TV booth to the
Speaker 5: our TV studio to the to the job for you
Speaker 5: that was That was mid season though, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: he was a yeah, I have a name for us
Speaker 5: at four o'clock that we haven't gotten to yet though.
Speaker 5: And this is interesting and they need a couple of
Speaker 5: things to work out, but I think this is one
Speaker 5: that we should keep in mind on our little list
Speaker 5: as well, because I do think they would consider it.
Speaker 2: And that'll be at four tenth, Like Andy Reid.
Speaker 4: I guarantee you if they're not already talking to Witten,
Speaker 4: I bet Whitton's blowing them up. And he's got the
Speaker 4: phone number. We'll see, we'll be I think they blocked
Speaker 4: his call, all right. Coming up next in the Hollywood Shuffle,
Speaker 4: where were going? Kt Ben went to a big show
Speaker 4: in the Metroplex this weekend. We'll get his review plus
Speaker 4: there are a couple of big music debths we need
Speaker 4: to discuss next