WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We are heading out to Oklahoma to talk about Superintendent

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<v Speaker 1>Ryan Walters and what he did this week that was weird, heinous,

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<v Speaker 1>and cruel and just downright obnoxious. Kelly has the story.

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<v Speaker 2>Kelly my top favorite elected religious bigot. Oklahoma school superintendent

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan Walters has tried to break the US Constitution once again,

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<v Speaker 2>this time claiming that people pointing out that he is

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<v Speaker 2>breaking the law are, in his eyes, breaking the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Walters is claiming that the Freedom from Religion Foundation, whom

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<v Speaker 2>he calls radical atheists, are attacking individuals, teachers, and students,

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<v Speaker 2>a claim that, of course the ffi UP denies and

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<v Speaker 2>there is absolutely no evidence. So last month, the FFI

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<v Speaker 2>UP did successfully sue Walters and kept him from spending

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<v Speaker 2>three million dollars on Trump Bibles to put in every

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<v Speaker 2>classroom within the state of Oklahoma. This lawsuit filed recently

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<v Speaker 2>by Walters against the atheist organization really looks more like

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<v Speaker 2>retribution for that success over the superintendent's religious policies. Then

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<v Speaker 2>it does look like something that is, you know, constitutionally legal. However,

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<v Speaker 2>Walters has already shown he is more than willing to

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<v Speaker 2>put the Bible before the Constitution in Oklahoma's public schools. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't need to be a lawyer. You don't even

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<v Speaker 2>need to have ever watched the show on TV about

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<v Speaker 2>lawyers to know that this lawsuit is a joke and

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<v Speaker 2>cannot gain any traction in the US Federal court. This

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<v Speaker 2>story is from The Friendly Atheist by Hem and Metta

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<v Speaker 2>from April Tecod twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Kelly, and I'm going to stick

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<v Speaker 1>with you because I think that you alluded to this

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<v Speaker 1>when your introduction. But you know, why do some political leaders,

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<v Speaker 1>especially with mister Walter, frame church state or as I

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<v Speaker 1>was recently told, religion and government separation as an attack.

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<v Speaker 2>Why why do they see it that way?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what?

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<v Speaker 2>I I don't know why they see it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>I understand that the them seeing that way is what

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<v Speaker 2>is becoming a large problem for us in many places

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<v Speaker 2>like Oklahoma. We're having problems with in Texas with the

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<v Speaker 2>schools there, in Louisiana with the schools there where they

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<v Speaker 2>now have to post the Ten Commandments in all the classrooms.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think these people see this as a win

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<v Speaker 2>over secular society. Like you know, they took prayer out

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<v Speaker 2>of school back in the nineteen fifties, and we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>damn make sure it gets back in there, even if

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<v Speaker 2>we have to, even if we have to do it

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<v Speaker 2>little by little by little. I mean, they chipped away

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<v Speaker 2>to abortion rights for fifty years until they got what

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<v Speaker 2>they almost have it completely what they wanted, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>still working on that. But it's the same type of

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<v Speaker 2>strategy or just gonna chip away at it, chip chip chip,

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<v Speaker 2>chip chip. Nobody notices the chip. Everybody notices when you're

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<v Speaker 2>knocking arm office that you little chip off the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>of it. Nobody notices until it's too late.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And they're doing it little by little, like you said.

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<v Speaker 3>Here in Texas, they're doing the same thing. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>the thing commandments, the bluebonnet curberculum that has a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of like biblical stories on it. It passed, it pass

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<v Speaker 3>is actually unless so, I mean, religion just does not

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<v Speaker 3>belong in public spaces, especially in tax funded places like

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<v Speaker 3>you know, schools. And I think Ryan Walters is confusing

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<v Speaker 3>what freedom of religion means. Like it doesn't mean you're

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<v Speaker 3>free to bring your religion into all of these places, right,

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<v Speaker 3>freedom of religion means that you can practice whatever religion

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<v Speaker 3>you want as long as you're not showing it in

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<v Speaker 3>other people's faces. Like, freedom from religion is just as

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<v Speaker 3>important as freedom of religion.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think that when we're looking at some polical

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<v Speaker 1>leaders like Ryan Walters, and I think that this is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons why we cover him a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>is because I don't really believe that they understand that

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<v Speaker 1>the freedom from religion is also a protectant for the religion,

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<v Speaker 1>because what ends up happening is that you do not

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<v Speaker 1>have government, the state, the nation coming into your institution

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<v Speaker 1>tell you how you're supposed to practice your said religion

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<v Speaker 1>or put stipulations on you on how your religion is

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to go. So it's protecting the religious as well

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<v Speaker 1>as us who happen to want to live our lives secular.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't necessarily have to be concerned with religious edicts,

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<v Speaker 1>institutions and the like dictating our life. But unfortunately, people

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<v Speaker 1>like Ryan Walters and other Christian nationalists who have been

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<v Speaker 1>elected into office are blurring those lines, and other institutions

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<v Speaker 1>that prop them up are blurring those lines so that

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<v Speaker 1>they can now dictate no matter what your belief is,

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<v Speaker 1>or even if you are not necessarily a Christian or

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<v Speaker 1>a believer in Christ or anything like that, how you're

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to live your life. This is the problem, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's even creeping into our curriculum. You notice, like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>pretty sure that you because we covered this before in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four is the most

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<v Speaker 1>that you will see like different institutions actually spending money

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<v Speaker 1>on school board election, like record amounts of money being

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<v Speaker 1>spent on school board election because they want to put

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<v Speaker 1>people into and when I say they, I mean Christian

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<v Speaker 1>nationalist institutions want to put people into those seats that

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<v Speaker 1>are of their ideology in order for them to influence curriculum,

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to indoctrinate kids, get them while they're young.

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<v Speaker 1>This is why Ryan Walters is pushing Bibles in school

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<v Speaker 1>specific Bibles with the Constitution or the pream or whatever

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<v Speaker 1>the hell was in front. There's a leather bound and

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<v Speaker 1>all this other craziness. I was like, can you imagine

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<v Speaker 1>like a kindergartener like walking around with this big go

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<v Speaker 1>leave the bound Bible school. I'm learning to read, mama,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you know, it's just absolutely ridiculous. And and now

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<v Speaker 1>that this is going to be the thing that's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be influencing like what they're being taught. It's insane.

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<v Speaker 1>But I know that Rob, you mentioned that you don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily believe that this is real. Can you just like

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<v Speaker 1>expand like what your thoughts are when it comes to this.

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<v Speaker 4>Whole Yeah, Ultimately, I Ryan Walter confuses me because I don't.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm genuinely curious. This isn't a bit like if he

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<v Speaker 4>understands what the protections of freedom of religion are and

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<v Speaker 4>things like that like that generally people are not that stupid,

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<v Speaker 4>especially if you become superintendent, even though it's possible to

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<v Speaker 4>have that happen. So what I don't, what I absolutely

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to do is just like make fun of

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<v Speaker 4>a dude or tell him he's dumb. But like, as

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<v Speaker 4>he keeps coming up, I actually don't know if he's

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<v Speaker 4>villain and monstrous or if he's just this abjectly stupid,

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<v Speaker 4>Like it can only be one of the other. So

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<v Speaker 4>what was happening is specifically that came up is at

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<v Speaker 4>least one teacher was specifically doing a Bible reading a

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<v Speaker 4>prayer before every class that was not relevant to the material.

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<v Speaker 4>And since they're a school which receives government funding, they

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<v Speaker 4>are not allowed to push any particular religion. And since

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<v Speaker 4>you can totally study religions in school, you should. You

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<v Speaker 4>cannot give one more of a mouthpiece as if it

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<v Speaker 4>has any more credibility or realness to it. So this

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<v Speaker 4>wasn't like, oh, some of the students wanted to hold

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<v Speaker 4>a prayer sometimes and the Freedom from Religious said no, No.

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<v Speaker 4>The school staff was literally putting on prayer with the students.

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<v Speaker 4>This cannot occur. This is a strictly obviously, there is

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<v Speaker 4>no two ways of about it. Illegal act. Cool. Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>so we're there. This is wrong. Now this guy comes

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<v Speaker 4>in and says they can't tell us to stop, and

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like, my dude, yes they can because it is

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<v Speaker 4>clearly illegal. There's no wiggle room here. So at some

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<v Speaker 4>point I have to stop believing that he's this stupid,

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<v Speaker 4>because he can't be. He must be monstrous. I have

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<v Speaker 4>found this to be evil with the amount of times

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<v Speaker 4>he brings it up and refuses to change his behavior.

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<v Speaker 3>This is Robbie. You just say that what they were

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<v Speaker 3>doing was illegal, and you should just a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>of what you know, what the story was that. Let

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<v Speaker 3>me should just just a little bit more detailed. But

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<v Speaker 3>from what I read in an auticle, and at least

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<v Speaker 3>one instance a student actually read Bible versus to the

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<v Speaker 3>whole class, like in front of the class, for the

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<v Speaker 3>whole class. So and then the district, also, the whole district,

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<v Speaker 3>not just one school, was beginning the school day with

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<v Speaker 3>mandatory student let prayer over the loudspeaker. After but this

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<v Speaker 3>was after the first period would start. Therefore, like everybody

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<v Speaker 3>was forced to partake in that. Like you couldn't just

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<v Speaker 3>get out of it because it was already class had

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<v Speaker 3>already started, so you would get in trouble if you

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to get out. You know that if it was

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<v Speaker 3>something like a moment of silence, that would be legal.

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<v Speaker 3>So what they tried to do to get away with

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<v Speaker 3>it was like they would instruct students to who were

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<v Speaker 3>making out this announcements to call it that, to call

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<v Speaker 3>it a moment of silence or prayer. But it wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>done quietly. It was followed by the student making the

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<v Speaker 3>announcement praying over the intercome for the entire fucking school.

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<v Speaker 3>So like it was definitely not secular and it was

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<v Speaker 3>definitely illegal.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we're what we're dealing with is that

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<v Speaker 1>the right is using. And I think that you guys

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<v Speaker 1>probably remember this case with Joe Kennedy from who was

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<v Speaker 1>a teacher. He was a football coach in Alabama who

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<v Speaker 1>was marching or telling his he was leading prayers rather

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<v Speaker 1>on the fifty yard line after every game, even though

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<v Speaker 1>his team was not a winning team. I repeat, the

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<v Speaker 1>team sucked like never won a championship. That all the

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<v Speaker 1>praying in the world did not help their playing. The

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<v Speaker 1>praying did not help the playing but soever and this,

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<v Speaker 1>and the school ended up discontinuing his contract when his

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<v Speaker 1>contract was up. They did not want to renew it,

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<v Speaker 1>even though they told him multiple times like hey, mister Kennedy,

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<v Speaker 1>tell you what pray, but can't you do it like

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<v Speaker 1>in the locker room and not on the fifty yard

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<v Speaker 1>line when you're done, Because he was not just he

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<v Speaker 1>was telling the students and inviting others even from like

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<v Speaker 1>the other team and other people who happened to be

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<v Speaker 1>around and other students to come out and with them

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<v Speaker 1>taking knee do all this other bullshit. Right, So it

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<v Speaker 1>was a case that the appellate court said, no, the

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<v Speaker 1>school was in the right in order for them not

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<v Speaker 1>to renew the contract. There's no rights that was violated here.

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<v Speaker 1>If anything, you messed up because you were at a

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<v Speaker 1>public school and you blurred the lines of the establishment.

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<v Speaker 1>Cause that's what you did, mister Kennedy. And so they

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<v Speaker 1>were in their right because they tried to work with

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<v Speaker 1>you within your means and you decided to do your

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<v Speaker 1>own thing. Goes all the way up to the Supreme Court,

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<v Speaker 1>all the way up to the Supreme Court felt it

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<v Speaker 1>was so interesting that the concurrent address from none other

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<v Speaker 1>than Brent Kavanaugh was his religious freedom practices were violated,

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<v Speaker 1>so the school was made to put him back into

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<v Speaker 1>his position, even though he moved all the way from

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<v Speaker 1>Alabama to Florida, or almost over one hundred miles away.

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<v Speaker 2>And what did he do after he got rehired was

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<v Speaker 2>that he quit? He quit, he quit, he quit quit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he quit. I think it wasn't even after one game.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it was one game he played.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, after one game he quit. So I mean, like so,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a waste of time, It was a waste

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<v Speaker 1>of backspayer money to even have this case. It shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>even have been taken up in the first place. But

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<v Speaker 1>even though he did all of that, it was more

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<v Speaker 1>so a thing of Hey, now the Supreme Court has said,

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<v Speaker 1>chat right, yeah, we're chipping. We're chipping. Now, We're chipping.

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<v Speaker 1>We're chipping. Now. Now the Supreme Court has said that, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>he was able to do this because his religious freedom

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<v Speaker 1>practices were violated by the school. Then now all the

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<v Speaker 1>people who are paid attention to this particular case, who

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<v Speaker 1>are in a Christian nationalist sphere is saying, okay, let's

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and push this. Even Justice Soto Mayor said,

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<v Speaker 1>the Lemon Test. Look it up, guys, the Lemon Test

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<v Speaker 1>is dead. But I want to hear more from Kelly

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<v Speaker 1>because I want to know about the oppositions to Walters

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<v Speaker 1>and how it actually may be affected in the better

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<v Speaker 1>or affected in the worse.

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<v Speaker 2>There has been some quite a bit of opposition of

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<v Speaker 2>Walter's policies throughout the state, especially in Tulsa, where last

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<v Speaker 2>year three candidates who were elected to the city school

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<v Speaker 2>Board were openly defiant of Walter's policies in public. There's

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<v Speaker 2>also been a lot of criticism from the indigenous peoples

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<v Speaker 2>who are trying to keep their traditional beliefs with their

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<v Speaker 2>children because they're getting bombarded with Christian messages at public schools,

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<v Speaker 2>which is really the very place where something like this

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be happening. So there are some bright spots in

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<v Speaker 2>opposition to them, people who probably deserve more support. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>something that sounds bad, but it might really be good

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<v Speaker 2>in the long term. In the long run. His term

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<v Speaker 2>in office is up next year, and so is the

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<v Speaker 2>guy owner's term. Now there's been rumors about him running

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<v Speaker 2>for the governor's office and instead of re running for

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<v Speaker 2>a superintendent, and quite frankly, I'm not sure he can

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<v Speaker 2>win that post. With his radical, far right religious views,

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<v Speaker 2>they do tend to not carry over to higher state offices.

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<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma might be a little bit different, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think I still don't think he'd be able to win

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<v Speaker 2>the governor's On the governor's election, he is in his

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<v Speaker 2>first elected office altogether, so people don't know what they

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<v Speaker 2>were getting for the most part when they elected him

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<v Speaker 2>the first time. They But now that his views and

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<v Speaker 2>his ideas are out there for all to see, he's

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<v Speaker 2>been criticized all across the country. I'm pretty sure he

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<v Speaker 2>just won't be elected as governor, let alone school superintendent again.

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<v Speaker 2>So hopefully, you know, we'll see him maybe try to

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<v Speaker 2>run for that office, and in the process of running

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<v Speaker 2>for that office not being a school superintendent.

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<v Speaker 4>Also, you hope, you hope. But the issue is that

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<v Speaker 4>when people like Trump can run and win, that what's

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<v Speaker 4>happening is all of this that he's doing is meant

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<v Speaker 4>to galvanize and virtue signal.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess man, you know, well, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Just have to reiterate that we here at the atheist

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<v Speaker 1>community as Austin does not actually endorse nor doing a

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<v Speaker 1>great any type of candidates who happen to run or

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<v Speaker 1>actually are an office at this particular time. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that when it even comes with this particular case, like

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<v Speaker 1>we are looking specifically at the policies that this particular

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<v Speaker 1>vers is doing now, whether if they are going to

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<v Speaker 1>go for a different office or not, we don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what that what would happen as far as like them

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<v Speaker 1>actually occupy in that office. But you know, if they win,

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<v Speaker 1>if they lose, or even if they run it all

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<v Speaker 1>it will be up to the people to decide if

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to be in office, and we will not

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<v Speaker 1>endorse them or dedorse them I don't even know if

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<v Speaker 1>that's a word. Or oppose them, I like dedoors, but

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<v Speaker 1>you know, all words are made up regardless, yes, indoors

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<v Speaker 1>or oppose them, whether they're going to be an office

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<v Speaker 1>or not. But I did want to ask a question

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<v Speaker 1>to the panel in of itself, and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>start with you, aj THN, Kelly, and then Rob because

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, one of the things

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<v Speaker 1>that we have to look at when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>the possible indoctrination or the not indoctrination of children in

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<v Speaker 1>schools is those who happen to be in the classrooms,

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<v Speaker 1>that's you know, teaching. So how can educators uphold constitutional

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<v Speaker 1>law without being caught in the crossfire a political theater?

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<v Speaker 1>Aj please start, then Kelly and then Rob.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean when any way you look at it,

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<v Speaker 3>there are classes in the Constitution regarding religion, and one

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<v Speaker 3>of them is, like you mentioned, that are really the establishments,

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<v Speaker 3>and it says that the government cannot promote or indorse

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<v Speaker 3>any particular religion. And this includes public schools because there

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<v Speaker 3>are you know, government spaces, so public schools just cannot

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<v Speaker 3>lead or require students to participate in prayer or display

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<v Speaker 3>religious symbols and any of that stuff. And this also

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<v Speaker 3>includes teachers. So if teachers want to follow the law.

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<v Speaker 3>They kind of they can say, you know what, I

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<v Speaker 3>am not going to teach this curriculum that you're giving

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<v Speaker 3>me that has biblical you know, connotations. I'm not going

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<v Speaker 3>to display these tink Commandments on the wall because it's

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<v Speaker 3>against the law, even though you know, they want to

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<v Speaker 3>make it the law that schools needs to display the

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<v Speaker 3>Ten Commandments whatever it is against the establishment class So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>they can. They can definitely cite the Constitution to defend

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<v Speaker 3>their decisions to oppose those type of things.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think they cannot get caught in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of it. That's the problem. I don't. I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>it's possible for him. And in fact, in Louisiana I

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned that the Ten Commandments law that they passed have

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<v Speaker 2>to be posted in all the classrooms. There is a

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<v Speaker 2>lawsuit against that law and it was brought by a

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<v Speaker 2>teacher who was actually the teacher of the Year in Louisiana. So,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, teachers are on the front lines here and

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<v Speaker 2>they probably deserve more support than they're getting. And I

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<v Speaker 2>always said that about teachers. Teachers definitely need more support

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<v Speaker 2>than they get.

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<v Speaker 4>So Rob, you're right, Ultimately, how can educators uphold constitutional

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<v Speaker 4>law by doing their jobs without being caught in the

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<v Speaker 4>crossfire by political theater. They cannot. The problem is executing

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<v Speaker 4>the Constitution as it is written, or executing the spirit

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<v Speaker 4>and the understanding of how the freedom of religion is

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<v Speaker 4>supposed to be executed within the country. When that very

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<v Speaker 4>execution is itself the thing being targeted, then when the

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<v Speaker 4>teachers follow the law, they are in fact putting themselves

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<v Speaker 4>into the politicalness, the political theater of it all. It

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<v Speaker 4>cannot be avoided. Therefore, don't try and stand strong, do more,

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<v Speaker 4>be loud. You can't avoid it, so win.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we understood that.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I've traveled around the country quite a bit over the

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<v Speaker 2>last couple of years, and everywhere I go people are

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<v Speaker 2>always complaining about stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I hear them talking about LGBTQ rights, about inflation, about DEI,

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<v Speaker 2>the wage gap, affirmative action, all kinds of stuff I

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<v Speaker 2>hear people complaining about all the time, you name it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's time for Americans to shut the

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<v Speaker 2>fuck up. Shut the fuck up, get off your asses,

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<v Speaker 2>put that game controller down, and go out there and

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<v Speaker 2>start changing the things that you think need to be changed.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I will say this people. Change does not happen

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<v Speaker 1>from the top down. It happens from the bottom up.