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<v Speaker 1>Oh is, folks, it's showtime.

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<v Speaker 2>People say good money to see this movie.

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<v Speaker 3>When they go out to a theater, they are cold

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<v Speaker 3>sodas pop popcorn in no monsters.

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<v Speaker 4>In the Projection Booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring?

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<v Speaker 5>Got it off?

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, folks, Welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I am

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<v Speaker 2>talking with Sam Degan and Andrew Nettie. What those are

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<v Speaker 2>co hosts? What are they doing being interviewed by me? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you. They are the co editors of the

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<v Speaker 2>New Film Revolution in thirty five millimeter Political Violence and

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<v Speaker 2>Resistance and Cinema from the art House to the Grindhouse

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty to nineteen ninety. This book is in my

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<v Speaker 2>sweet spot. There are so many movies surrounding nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 2>nine May sixty eight, just the late sixties turmoil, early

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<v Speaker 2>seventies turmoil, obviously turmoil all the way from nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 2>to nineteen ninety. I do have to say that I

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<v Speaker 2>have an essay in this book, so take that with

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<v Speaker 2>a green of salt, though I don't talk about it

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<v Speaker 2>too much in this interview. Wrote a little bit about

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Watkins and people hunting people films. If you want

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<v Speaker 2>to hear more about people hunting people films, well check

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<v Speaker 2>out our Turkey shoot episode with mister Netti. That's coming

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<v Speaker 2>out pretty darn soon, I believe in October. And of

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<v Speaker 2>course Sam has been on so many episodes as well

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<v Speaker 2>as Andrew, but this is also in Sam's sweet spot

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<v Speaker 2>of post World War two world cinema. You know that

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<v Speaker 2>Sam is quite a cinephile as well as Andrew and

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<v Speaker 2>will recommend movies that I've never heard of, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>pretty good. This is another book that's going to put

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of titles on your wish list, on your

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<v Speaker 2>watch list. I imagine somebody is going to go out

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<v Speaker 2>and make a list of all of the movies that

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<v Speaker 2>have been covered in this book and throw that onto

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<v Speaker 2>letterbox if they do. If somebody's got that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>time on their hands, boy oh boy, I will be

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<v Speaker 2>the first one to link to it. Definitely check out

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<v Speaker 2>this book. It is available via PM Press. Can also

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<v Speaker 2>get it wherever finer books are sold. If they don't

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<v Speaker 2>have it at your local bookstore, hopefully you have a

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<v Speaker 2>local bookstore, they can order it for you. Thanks. So

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<v Speaker 2>much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this interview

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew Netti Sam Deagan, the co editors of Revolution in

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five millimeter. I have my beautiful copy of it

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<v Speaker 2>right here. I am so thrilled with this book, and

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<v Speaker 2>even more that you guys asked me to be a

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<v Speaker 2>part of it. How did this project come about?

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<v Speaker 4>I knew that I wanted to I ate something book

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<v Speaker 4>length about political valence in cinema, but I didn't know

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<v Speaker 4>exactly what that project might look like. And I was

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<v Speaker 4>picking Andrew's brain about working with PM Press, and I

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<v Speaker 4>think how it happened was I described the project and

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<v Speaker 4>you were like, I'll be a co editor, and that

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<v Speaker 4>was pretty much that, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just invite myself into your book.

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<v Speaker 6>That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, you had that idea, which I mean was a

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<v Speaker 1>great idea and sink to the couple of things I've

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<v Speaker 1>been thinking about. And I thought it would be a

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<v Speaker 1>good project for PM. And PM do beautiful books, and

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<v Speaker 1>this one is they do beautiful, full color books. They

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<v Speaker 1>certainly do the kind of books that I would never

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<v Speaker 1>be able to do in Australia. So I pitched it

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<v Speaker 1>to Ramsey Keenan who's the sort of head hon show

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<v Speaker 1>at PM Press, And he said, yes, so give a supposal.

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<v Speaker 1>That was that?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I'm I'm so glad that I didn't try

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<v Speaker 4>to do a book like this on my own, Like

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<v Speaker 4>I think for a lot of different reasons, it makes

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<v Speaker 4>sense as.

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<v Speaker 7>A group project with like different.

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<v Speaker 4>People writing different essays. And I don't know, it's just

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<v Speaker 4>I think, sure someone could do a solo book like this,

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<v Speaker 4>but I think it's just so much better the way

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<v Speaker 4>that it turned out.

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<v Speaker 2>Where did the idea of taking this around the globe

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<v Speaker 2>come from? Was that right there at the original pitch

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<v Speaker 2>as far as we want to look at revolution on

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<v Speaker 2>film around the entire world, because you cover obviously not

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<v Speaker 2>every single country, but a lot of them, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we tried.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess to me where it came from was when

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<v Speaker 4>I first started writing, I got pretty pigeonholed into writing

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<v Speaker 4>about horror genre films, and it made me feel frustrated

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<v Speaker 4>because it's one note to just be writing about one

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<v Speaker 4>genre or subgenre again and again. And I started thinking

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<v Speaker 4>about representations of violence in film that are not in

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<v Speaker 4>horror films, and it's just something I've started thinking about

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<v Speaker 4>more and more over probably the last decade, and so

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<v Speaker 4>when we talked about turning it into an actual edited

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<v Speaker 4>collection of essays, it was we might as well, what's

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<v Speaker 4>the widest go And I think that part was the

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<v Speaker 4>hardest to narrow down.

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<v Speaker 7>It's like what do you leave out? Because there's so much.

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<v Speaker 1>For my part, I had co editor reread books with

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<v Speaker 1>PM Press previously, and they were looking at aspects of

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<v Speaker 1>pulp and popular publishing over the period that for one

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<v Speaker 1>of the better word a lot of people call, or

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<v Speaker 1>certainly learn of academics called the long sixties, which is

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<v Speaker 1>that notion that the sixties really have their generous genesis

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<v Speaker 1>obviously in the nineteen fifties, and the sort of political,

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<v Speaker 1>social economic changes that happened in the sixties reverberate all

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<v Speaker 1>the way really into the nineteen eighty. So this book

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<v Speaker 1>was a good fit with that. And I was a

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<v Speaker 1>bit sick of writing about hope and popular fiction. I

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<v Speaker 1>was actually quite keen to see something different, and I

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<v Speaker 1>was really interested to do something on film. And Sam

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<v Speaker 1>was certainly someone whose work I had admired for a

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<v Speaker 1>long time, and so it was great to work with

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<v Speaker 1>her on this, and it was great to do something

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<v Speaker 1>which stretched me in terms of writing about film for

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<v Speaker 1>a book project and writing about a whole lot of

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<v Speaker 1>films and I was really interested in which I hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>written about before. And as Sam said, there were many

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<v Speaker 1>complicated aspects of the book, but one of them was

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<v Speaker 1>how you narrow it down because there is so much

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<v Speaker 1>so you had to have We had to have the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the key ones we have to have, got,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to have Guillo, Pontecorvo, cost discover Us films

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<v Speaker 1>like Z. Those are your basic ones that you just

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<v Speaker 1>can't avoid having and you should have them. But then

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<v Speaker 1>there's also a huge slath of material that then became

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<v Speaker 1>quite difficult to short through and what we include and

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<v Speaker 1>what we don't include. Yeah, that was a sort of continual,

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<v Speaker 1>a good dynamic tension in the project right up almost

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<v Speaker 1>until we submitted the manuscript.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it was like towards the end there it was

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<v Speaker 4>like what final essays can we shoehorn into this book?

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<v Speaker 4>Because we both just kept finding stuff that we're genuinely

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<v Speaker 4>really excited about, which is the best feeling for a

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<v Speaker 4>book project, rather than being like what else do we

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<v Speaker 4>have to include?

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<v Speaker 1>And also a sort of truncating our desire, the possibility

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<v Speaker 1>that you could just pretty much do the entire book

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<v Speaker 1>on Italy, and within that you could almost do the

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<v Speaker 1>entire book on Gamor of volentatous spirit animal of the book,

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<v Speaker 1>because he's in so many of the film that we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do and really trying to. Yeah, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of there's a lot of Volantai in the book,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a good thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't spoken to both of you about a Valente.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that, Yeah, he is right there on the

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<v Speaker 2>cover of So how did you determine that size of

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<v Speaker 2>the box as far as what was going to go

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<v Speaker 2>into this and what wasn't.

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<v Speaker 4>Something that I have trouble reckoning with in my writing

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<v Speaker 4>in general, is like more mainstream cinema, which I often

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<v Speaker 4>find to be a lot of It is just like

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<v Speaker 4>capitalist propaganda cleverly spun into something else, like at least

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<v Speaker 4>if you're talking about political violence and films. So once

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<v Speaker 4>we figured out, okay, we could do art house movies

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<v Speaker 4>and other like marginal things like different types of genre cinema.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, the subtitle is from the art House to

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<v Speaker 4>the Grindhouse. It's like that still alone could be like

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<v Speaker 4>ten volumes, but at least it now married it a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of it's also about with these projects, it's

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<v Speaker 1>what you want and what you can find people to

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<v Speaker 1>write about. We were paying contributors that they weren't being

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<v Speaker 1>paid huge amount, and so to get people who can

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<v Speaker 1>write well, write the kind of stuff we wanted in

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<v Speaker 1>the book, but also something that they wanted to contribute it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was a bit of a push and pull too,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a good thing us approaching people and saying

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to write about this, but also people saying, oh, look, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure about that, but I'd be quite interested.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got an idea to do this, and then shaping

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<v Speaker 1>that idea is important. And I think also with this material,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is a sort of commonality with the books

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<v Speaker 1>I'd done for PM Press about polp and popular fiction.

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<v Speaker 1>We did one book, I did one book with all

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<v Speaker 1>three of those were done with a friend of mine

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<v Speaker 1>in Melbourne called Ian McIntyre. And one book we did

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<v Speaker 1>was about representations of youth devancy and popular culture and

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<v Speaker 1>pulp and popular fiction. And we also did a book

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<v Speaker 1>on how the Long sixties, in terms of revolutionary countercultural

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<v Speaker 1>movements work were depicted in pulp and popular fiction, and

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<v Speaker 1>we didn't went on science fiction as well, on radical

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<v Speaker 1>science fiction. But the difficulty is that the material is

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to say those words hasn't aged well

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<v Speaker 1>or as controversial or as problematic, because they're all massive

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<v Speaker 1>weasel words and I absolutely hate them, and there is

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<v Speaker 1>no mention of any of those terms in the book.

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<v Speaker 1>But it takes a certain skill to write perceptively and

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<v Speaker 1>sensitively about materials that a lot of people find easy

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<v Speaker 1>to dismiss because it's exploitative, or it's got a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of violence in it, or it's got a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>sex in it, or there's sexual violence or all those things.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've got to be able to write about it

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<v Speaker 1>in such a way that you're paying that material its respects,

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<v Speaker 1>looking at why it came out and the roots of

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<v Speaker 1>that material, and good in that material, and what's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>in that material, but also what's what can be difficult

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<v Speaker 1>in that material, but in a way that it's not

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<v Speaker 1>looking down on the material. It's hard to write about

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<v Speaker 1>some of that culture well, I think in a non

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<v Speaker 1>sneering way, in not an overly academic way, in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that recognizes this material as connected to radical directors

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<v Speaker 1>or for the most part, and radical movements or even

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<v Speaker 1>just radical milliures or is influenced by that, even if

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<v Speaker 1>it's sometimes unconsciously influenced by that.

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<v Speaker 4>Annie rose Melmett wrote this chapter about rap revenge films,

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<v Speaker 4>especially the rep revenge films focused around like girl gangs,

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<v Speaker 4>and tied it to politics and to second wave feminism

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<v Speaker 4>in such an interesting way where I definitely feel like

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<v Speaker 4>she's the only person who could have written that chapter

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<v Speaker 4>in that way, because to have someone write about rep

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<v Speaker 4>revenge films and take them seriously while also not trying

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<v Speaker 4>to spin them into something bigger than they actually are

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<v Speaker 4>or weightier than they actually are their exploitation movies, but

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<v Speaker 4>to connect it with these more very angry, violent, at

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<v Speaker 4>least in terms of language, feminist writers and feminist movements,

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<v Speaker 4>to me, it just that's really I think sums up

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<v Speaker 4>what we are going for, is like people who take

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<v Speaker 4>the political content seriously but can also write about films,

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<v Speaker 4>whether it's an art house film or a low budget

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<v Speaker 4>exploitation movie, with the same level of respect. And I

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<v Speaker 4>feel like you did a very similar thing with your

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<v Speaker 4>essay about these films from Peter Watkins and from other

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<v Speaker 4>people too, where you have all these sort of futuristic

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<v Speaker 4>humans hunting humans and it being broadcast on television. Like,

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<v Speaker 4>I've definitely read some online writing about those films that

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<v Speaker 4>is so disrespectful of them, and I think everyone who

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<v Speaker 4>contributed to the book had a similar level of taking

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<v Speaker 4>the subject matters seriously and being not to use the

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<v Speaker 4>same war twelve times in one paragraph, but respectfully.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, tell me about some of your other contributors.

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<v Speaker 4>We have an interesting mix of fiction writers, academics, film critics,

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<v Speaker 4>Like we have Matthew Kowalski writing about Yugoslavian cinema and

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<v Speaker 4>the Yugoslavian Black Wave, and he's a really wonderful academic

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<v Speaker 4>who has contributed to some Blu Ray releases. I know

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<v Speaker 4>he did something for Working Class Goes to Heaven for

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<v Speaker 4>the Radiance release, But mostly he's an academic who focuses

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<v Speaker 4>on Eastern Europe and Soviet Union and is just so

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<v Speaker 4>knowledgeable in that area, but also is somebody with communist

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<v Speaker 4>radical politics, so it's like when he writes about it,

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<v Speaker 4>you could tell that he's super super passionate.

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<v Speaker 1>Another contributor, someone I know from Melbourne, is that he

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<v Speaker 1>is a fiction author called Christos Chalkis. His parents were

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<v Speaker 1>Greek immigrants to Australia in the nineteen sixties. I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 1>sure he's gay, comes from a working class Greek migrant family,

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<v Speaker 1>and I knew that he was really interested in the

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<v Speaker 1>work of Costa Gambraus, so I asked him if he

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<v Speaker 1>would be interested in looking at what is Gambras's most

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<v Speaker 1>famous film, which is z or Z depending on which

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<v Speaker 1>part of the world that you come from, and he did.

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<v Speaker 1>He was keen to do it, and he did a

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting take on that film, which I hadn't read

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<v Speaker 1>anywhere else, actually, about how it intersected with his own

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<v Speaker 1>awakening as a queer person, and also basically how it

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<v Speaker 1>intersected with his own working class politics coming up in

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<v Speaker 1>radical Greek sort of communist movements in or nineteen, which

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<v Speaker 1>is really good.

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<v Speaker 4>There's also Michael Gonzalez who wrote his piece is similar

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<v Speaker 4>to Christosi's in the way that they both feel really personal.

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<v Speaker 4>So he wrote this great essay about the spookou sat

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<v Speaker 4>by the Door, which you know, you couldn't have a

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<v Speaker 4>book like this without covering that film, and he talks

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<v Speaker 4>about what it was like to grow up watching it,

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<v Speaker 4>and it strikes this really great balance between being a

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<v Speaker 4>more journalistic piece about the history of this incredible film

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<v Speaker 4>that got buried and also just what it meant to

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<v Speaker 4>him as I think he grew up in Baltimore, Is

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<v Speaker 4>that right?

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up in New York in Brooklyn. I'm pretty

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<v Speaker 1>sure it was Brooklyn, but he now lives in Baltimore here.

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<v Speaker 4>That's I think that's where I was getting that mixed up.

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<v Speaker 4>But like talking about his experience watching it as a

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<v Speaker 4>young black kid growing up, seeing it especially present themes

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<v Speaker 4>so differently than the stereotypical black playation movies, and who

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<v Speaker 4>else do we have. We've also got Robert Skvarla, who

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<v Speaker 4>specializes he does some film writing, but he is mostly

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<v Speaker 4>a kind of journalistic writer about conspiracy theories. Like he's

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<v Speaker 4>written a lot about the CIA's involvement in popular culture

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<v Speaker 4>and things like that. And he wrote about the Killing

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<v Speaker 4>of America, which is this Mondo movie from the early eighties,

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<v Speaker 4>and just this history of the Mondo films as being

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<v Speaker 4>this weird mashup of pseudo documentary and exploitation movie, and

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of them really focus on violence as being

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<v Speaker 4>this sort of foundational component of American society.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Another one was Kimberly Limberg's, who is another US based

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<v Speaker 1>screens writer, sort of film critic whose work quite liked

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>She's great, and she did a terrific chapter on films

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<v Speaker 1>that look at sort of American campus revolt films from

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<v Speaker 1>the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies, particularly focusing

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<v Speaker 1>on Antonioni's A Briski Point in nineteen seventy, which is

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<v Speaker 1>both another one of those films that you can't do

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<v Speaker 1>a book like this without doing a Briski Point, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that, interestingly, a film I had seen ages

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<v Speaker 1>ago and hadn't really cared very much for. But when

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<v Speaker 1>I read kimberlyze writing on this film, and she actually

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<v Speaker 1>writes about half a dozen other films as well as

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<v Speaker 1>A Briskie Point. She also does the Strawberry statement getting straight.

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<v Speaker 1>But when I read her piece and read what she

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<v Speaker 1>was saying about a Briski Point, I went back and

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<v Speaker 1>revisited it and got a lot more out of it

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<v Speaker 1>this time, which is one of the things I also

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<v Speaker 1>really loved about doing this book, because discovering new films

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<v Speaker 1>but also reading what our contributors had said about the

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<v Speaker 1>films and then going back and visiting them based on that.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's something I also did while we were working

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00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:16.759
<v Speaker 1>with Christos on his chapter on Z I went back

307
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<v Speaker 1>and revisited that silm and that got a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>out of it with the richness of what Christos was

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<v Speaker 1>saying about it.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, there's similarly for me, Scott Adlerberg wrote this chapter

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<v Speaker 4>about Brazilian cinema Novo, comparing Glaberosia to Coffin Joe and

312
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.039
<v Speaker 4>growing up watching Coffin Joe movies like Bootleggs Bad transfer

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<v Speaker 4>VHS tapes to reread something about him in that context

314
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<v Speaker 4>of his films having this component of political resistance made

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00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:55.440
<v Speaker 4>me think about them in a whole new way. Like

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<v Speaker 4>at first when he pitched the essay, because we knew

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00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.079
<v Speaker 4>we wanted someone to do brazil cinema, like you could

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00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:05.079
<v Speaker 4>do a version of this book just focused on Central

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00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:10.359
<v Speaker 4>and South American cinema. But his pitch of comparing the

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00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:12.279
<v Speaker 4>two of them, in my head, I was like, how

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<v Speaker 4>is he going to make this work? But it works

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<v Speaker 4>and it's such an interesting comparison.

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<v Speaker 2>Along with Central and South America. I'm sure you could

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<v Speaker 2>do a whole book just on Africa in African Cinema.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that was one of my sort of rabbit holes

326
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:32.039
<v Speaker 4>that I fell down, where I wrote about Sarah Melderer

327
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:38.839
<v Speaker 4>and Uzman Semben and also Yusef Shaheen, who's an Egyptian filmmaker.

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<v Speaker 4>Writing those essays closer to when we were finishing up

329
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.160
<v Speaker 4>the manuscript was a really positive experience because some of

330
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.359
<v Speaker 4>those films are more hopeful in a lot of ways,

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<v Speaker 4>especially knowing that a lot of these African countries while

332
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.200
<v Speaker 4>these films were being made, were able to successfully win

333
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:04.039
<v Speaker 4>their wars of life liberation and throw off the colonial government.

334
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<v Speaker 4>So it was a nice thing to dive into after

335
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.960
<v Speaker 4>writing these depressing European chapters like the New German Cinema ones,

336
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.559
<v Speaker 4>it's just so doom and gloom. It's like we're being

337
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.839
<v Speaker 4>repressed by these former Nazis. But having a couple of

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00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:21.680
<v Speaker 4>those African essays to write again, you could do a

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00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:27.359
<v Speaker 4>whole book on African cinema and probably some African writers

340
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<v Speaker 4>as well, just like the whole diaspora.

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<v Speaker 1>Even while we've been doing this book, it feels like

342
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the ground shifted a little bit because Sam and I

343
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<v Speaker 1>had been talking about how Oh, theok Criterions doing a

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<v Speaker 1>season of these films, and Australian set up with the

345
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Moving Image did a season of films on em bedding

346
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<v Speaker 1>earlier this year. So the stuff that we thought was

347
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:53.160
<v Speaker 1>very hard to find, he suddenly begin getting a sort

348
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:56.400
<v Speaker 1>of a new look, which is nice. So a lot

349
00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:58.559
<v Speaker 1>of lost film in the book, we're a lot of

350
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:03.279
<v Speaker 1>very hard to find film cultures that have been really

351
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<v Speaker 1>used that the Invot term erased by various things, all lost,

352
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.279
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of that is obviously in the global South,

353
00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:17.839
<v Speaker 1>but also in America. There was this really interesting American director,

354
00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:19.839
<v Speaker 1>I don't know when you've heard of him, Mike called

355
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Robert Kramer. I wrote an essay quite late in the

356
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.119
<v Speaker 1>piece about a nineteen seventy Kramer film called Ice, which

357
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.720
<v Speaker 1>is essentially about this student worker revolution in America in

358
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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy. Quite a strange film. But all of Kramer's

359
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:40.079
<v Speaker 1>filmography is really hard to find, almost impossible to find

360
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.039
<v Speaker 1>in some respects, and let's just say that we had

361
00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.519
<v Speaker 1>to get creative in terms of sourcing some other films.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it is interesting though, from when we started talking

363
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:55.240
<v Speaker 4>about it and initially plotting an outline to now that

364
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.400
<v Speaker 4>the book is out, it does feel like there's just

365
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:02.279
<v Speaker 4>something in the air, because like Criterion has that Yusef

366
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:05.880
<v Speaker 4>Shaheen series on the channel, they put out some usman

367
00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:12.880
<v Speaker 4>Semben films recently. Fingers crossed, maybe maybe some of those

368
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.400
<v Speaker 4>harder to find films will start to materialize.

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<v Speaker 7>Some of it.

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<v Speaker 4>I think, like writing about Egyptian cinema and trying to

371
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<v Speaker 4>do more writing about Middle Eastern cinema, it was shocking

372
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<v Speaker 4>to me to learn how little there is in certain

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<v Speaker 4>areas because of the way the governments are set up

374
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<v Speaker 4>and because of the way cinema is managed. So it's

375
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<v Speaker 4>like from certain regions you just have this explosion of

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<v Speaker 4>political violence and revolution on screen in films, and then

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<v Speaker 4>in other regions that you could just hear the crickets chirping.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, when we were talking about this with a recent

379
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<v Speaker 1>episode of and as yet on a public episode of

380
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.880
<v Speaker 1>your podcast that's coming up, when we're talking about Yu,

381
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<v Speaker 1>said Jahanes Jamilla the Algeria, which is a nineteen fifty

382
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:09.960
<v Speaker 1>film that he did about the sort of revolution in Algeria,

383
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<v Speaker 1>very much focused on a female figure, and that revolution

384
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.000
<v Speaker 1>is we were talking about the fact that Jahan himself

385
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<v Speaker 1>I think did a large number of films, and the

386
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<v Speaker 1>characters in that film, now some of those were in

387
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.920
<v Speaker 1>sixty seventy. When there's one guy in that film that

388
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:29.559
<v Speaker 1>was at one hundred and thirty two Egyptian films, and

389
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.000
<v Speaker 1>that makes you realize that there's this whole body of

390
00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:34.960
<v Speaker 1>film out there that you're completely ignorant about.

391
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<v Speaker 4>For some of those Egyptian films, you have to really

392
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 4>like melodramas and musicals.

393
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<v Speaker 2>Well, speaking of melodramas and musicals, I was really happy

394
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>that you have Indian films represented as.

395
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:50.359
<v Speaker 4>Well, and none of them are melodramas or musicals. Yeah,

396
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 4>that was actually really exciting that we were able to get.

397
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:58.519
<v Speaker 4>So this Indian film writer, Udai Batia, wrote this book

398
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:04.319
<v Speaker 4>about Indian crime cinema, and he wrote a chapter for

399
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:10.480
<v Speaker 4>our book about these gangster films that kind of a

400
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:13.799
<v Speaker 4>little bit like what Melville does and what some of

401
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:18.160
<v Speaker 4>the French sixties and seventies crime directors do. A lot

402
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:23.079
<v Speaker 4>of these Indian gangster movies, which are again incredibly difficult

403
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:29.119
<v Speaker 4>to find for English friendly releases, they are similarly all

404
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:34.960
<v Speaker 4>about how gangsters and these organized crime gangs are basically

405
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.880
<v Speaker 4>created by the conditions of poverty and colonialism and government

406
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:44.079
<v Speaker 4>corruption and fit right in. And we knew there's so

407
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.880
<v Speaker 4>much more with Indian cinema you could do in a

408
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:51.319
<v Speaker 4>book like this. It just finding somebody with that expertise.

409
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:54.839
<v Speaker 4>So we're so grateful that OUDA came on board.

410
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Were there any areas of the globe that you wanted

411
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.319
<v Speaker 2>to have representation from about We're unable to find somebody

412
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:02.559
<v Speaker 2>to pen something.

413
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Speaker 4>I think some of it was an issue of word count,

414
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:12.039
<v Speaker 4>so I really wanted to do more another Middle Eastern

415
00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:17.720
<v Speaker 4>cinema chapter and something on Persian cinema. But once we

416
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:22.960
<v Speaker 4>started adding in these shorter essays, and once we hit

417
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:25.519
<v Speaker 4>our word limit count, it was like, Okay, we have

418
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:29.599
<v Speaker 4>covered a lot. We could say more about South American cinema.

419
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:36.759
<v Speaker 4>We could say more about probably Soviet adjacent cinema, probably

420
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 4>more about Hong Kong cinema. We could have fit in here,

421
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.359
<v Speaker 4>although that's a little bit trickier because they do have

422
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:43.319
<v Speaker 4>some restrictions.

423
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:45.559
<v Speaker 7>Could do ten of these volumes.

424
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:51.000
<v Speaker 1>I think Latin America, Latin America, I think Latin America

425
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.880
<v Speaker 1>and South America was certainly one area that we could

426
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:59.720
<v Speaker 1>have just done a huge amount more. There's nothing for Mexico.

427
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.920
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing from a number of the Latin American countries. Cuba, Yeah,

428
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:07.279
<v Speaker 1>there's a chapter. There's a sort of outtake on some

429
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.200
<v Speaker 1>of the films in Argentina, and there's also one about

430
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:14.920
<v Speaker 1>George Sanginis, who was a Bolivian director. But there was

431
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.240
<v Speaker 1>so much and of course we have mentioned Scott's essay

432
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:23.200
<v Speaker 1>about the sort of unlikely connections between Glora Roacher and

433
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:26.039
<v Speaker 1>Jose Marines. But we could have done so much more

434
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.160
<v Speaker 1>about Latin America, really gone deep into that I discovered,

435
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.839
<v Speaker 1>and you constantly discovered as you're doing these books. It's

436
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:33.240
<v Speaker 1>like the same when I was doing the pulp and

437
00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.759
<v Speaker 1>popular fiction books. You're always finding stuff, and then when

438
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 1>the book is finished and comes out, he's still finding stuff.

439
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 1>I came across Robert Kramer's work quite late in the book,

440
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:47.799
<v Speaker 1>so there's a short essay on his nineteen seventy film

441
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.880
<v Speaker 1>Without a Revolution in America in the United States in

442
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.319
<v Speaker 1>New York called Ice. But there's so much more. Would

443
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.880
<v Speaker 1>have been glat to have another chapter on him. Oh,

444
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.000
<v Speaker 1>we could have gone to town on so much more. Friendship,

445
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Italian and as you say, Sam, Eastern European stuff that

446
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.720
<v Speaker 1>we could have covered.

447
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 4>My probably biggest regret is that I wasn't so when

448
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.240
<v Speaker 4>I was digging around trying to make a list of

449
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 4>potential films from North Africa and the Middle East to include,

450
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.519
<v Speaker 4>I found some Lebanese films that I would have liked

451
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.000
<v Speaker 4>to have written about, but I was trying really hard

452
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.480
<v Speaker 4>to find Palestinian films that would qualify. And I don't

453
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 4>think we've talked about this in the episode yet, but

454
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 4>our parameters were the Cold War, so roughly nineteen fifty

455
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:39.240
<v Speaker 4>five to the very early nineties, around nineteen ninety and

456
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.359
<v Speaker 4>no documentaries, and the only Palestinian films I could find

457
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:47.359
<v Speaker 4>surviving from the seventies were documentaries because everything else was

458
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:52.359
<v Speaker 4>just destroyed or confiscated. I'm sure something is out there,

459
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 4>and there's probably a Palestinian cinema expert who would be like, oh, yes, duh,

460
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:59.640
<v Speaker 4>you should have written about this, but you're both.

461
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.079
<v Speaker 2>So too per film letter were their titles that surprised

462
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 2>you where you said, oh, I've never heard of this before.

463
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:07.799
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like maybe Robert Kramer was a little bit

464
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:12.119
<v Speaker 2>of a surprise for you, Andrew what else really stuck out?

465
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.519
<v Speaker 2>And then also delighted you when you finally got to

466
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:14.920
<v Speaker 2>see it.

467
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.440
<v Speaker 4>For me, and Andrew brought this up, but when I

468
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 4>was writing my Usef Shaheen Egyptian Cinema essay, finding that

469
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:27.200
<v Speaker 4>he made this film called Jamila the Algerian which is

470
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:32.559
<v Speaker 4>about this real life figure Jamila Buherad, who was female

471
00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:36.119
<v Speaker 4>freedom fighter, and to have an Egyptian film from the

472
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:42.160
<v Speaker 4>late fifties made while the Algerian War was occurring, focused

473
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:46.480
<v Speaker 4>almost exclusively on the female characters like absolutely blew my

474
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.039
<v Speaker 4>mind and I wish that one was included with this

475
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:51.799
<v Speaker 4>Criterion Channel series.

476
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Speaker 7>But it really changed a.

477
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.920
<v Speaker 4>Lot about how I thought about Middle Eastern cinema, even

478
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:02.119
<v Speaker 4>considering that if film like that existed, where it's all

479
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:07.160
<v Speaker 4>about women just bombing the shit out of their colonial

480
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.279
<v Speaker 4>oppressors basically, but also with melodrama and romance and a

481
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.400
<v Speaker 4>musical number had the same.

482
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.759
<v Speaker 1>Song to God with the Wind, which is repurposed attic

483
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 1>aspect dramatic point of the film, which is terrific. Yeah,

484
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Kramer was certainly. Kramer was certainly a interesting discovery for

485
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.440
<v Speaker 1>me revisiting some of those films that Kimberly wrote about

486
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:34.799
<v Speaker 1>in her chapter on American Campus Revolt Films was really good.

487
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.279
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I talked about how we could have done

488
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.640
<v Speaker 1>so much more on sort of South America. But the

489
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:45.319
<v Speaker 1>George san Ginis films, he was a sort of Bolivian

490
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:51.480
<v Speaker 1>new cinema director who has had a very strong anti colonial,

491
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.160
<v Speaker 1>pro the Bolivian Indians perspective in his films and then

492
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.839
<v Speaker 1>eventually fell fout of the military dictatorship in a military

493
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.000
<v Speaker 1>moment in Bolivia and moved about the placemaking films. His

494
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.039
<v Speaker 1>stuff is really it's really pretty incredible, especially given that

495
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:12.480
<v Speaker 1>it's made or an absolute shoe string some of his films.

496
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:15.640
<v Speaker 1>There's one particular film he makes. It's a nineteen sixty

497
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.359
<v Speaker 1>nine film which is not an unknown film called Blood

498
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 1>of the Condor, which is essentially about based on stories

499
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.359
<v Speaker 1>that were in the pretty sure the oblivion press, about

500
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:31.119
<v Speaker 1>how members of the Peace Corps were sterilizing Bolivian Indian

501
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.359
<v Speaker 1>women as part of their activities, and it's all about

502
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.960
<v Speaker 1>that and about the revolt against these Peace Corps of

503
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.920
<v Speaker 1>this particular Indian village, the revolt against these Peace Corps workers.

504
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 1>That's a really interesting film. Some of the Argentinian films

505
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>are really interesting. These aren't hard to find films, but

506
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.680
<v Speaker 1>I personally got a lot out of this chapter I

507
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.720
<v Speaker 1>wrote in there about testy films, but also just talking

508
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 1>specifically about those films that combine their crime plot with

509
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:05.920
<v Speaker 1>vaguely defied right wing conspiracies to destroy the Italian state

510
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and to asher ina right wing dictatorship, of which there

511
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.880
<v Speaker 1>are a surprisingly large number in the Putzier Testi pet

512
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 1>of films. Watching those was terrific. This one particular film

513
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:20.599
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy nine, I think it is, it's a Damiani

514
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:24.559
<v Speaker 1>film called I Am Afraid with Our Men of Alante.

515
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.799
<v Speaker 1>That was a particular highlight of those films. But yeah,

516
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.279
<v Speaker 1>there's some great films in that lot as well. It

517
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:33.200
<v Speaker 1>was great watching all of those together as well.

518
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:38.359
<v Speaker 4>You also wrote this chapter about Patty Hirst exploitation movies

519
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.720
<v Speaker 4>that kind of blew my mind a little bit because

520
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:42.559
<v Speaker 4>I didn't realize there were so many of them.

521
00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.759
<v Speaker 1>Of course there were, including sort of Patty Hurst porn

522
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.119
<v Speaker 1>film or Patty Hurst sort of sexploitation film.

523
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Patty just called that. I think it was cooled, okay,

524
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:55.960
<v Speaker 2>because there's one called Patty by Robert L. Roberts that

525
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.119
<v Speaker 2>I've been looking for forever.

526
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:03.039
<v Speaker 4>How there are so many film makers exploiting history because.

527
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.359
<v Speaker 1>He was a pop culture fathing frenzy, wasn't she The

528
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.799
<v Speaker 1>story of an heiress to a fortune who then turns

529
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>into a revolutionary is photographed robbing a bank, and around

530
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:19.759
<v Speaker 1>that the whole sort of the whole air, oh, the

531
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.279
<v Speaker 1>sexual air that she's potentially sleeping with, the captors and

532
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:26.440
<v Speaker 1>all of that is tabloid matter from heaven.

533
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.000
<v Speaker 2>How long did it actually take to put this whole

534
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:29.519
<v Speaker 2>thing together?

535
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 7>I don't so.

536
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 4>The pandemic has really warped my sense of time. Possibly

537
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.440
<v Speaker 4>aging as well has done that. So I want to

538
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:39.599
<v Speaker 4>say about two years?

539
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:40.319
<v Speaker 7>Is that right?

540
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>About a year and a half?

541
00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:42.400
<v Speaker 6>I think?

542
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.519
<v Speaker 7>I think didn't take that long. In the grand scheme

543
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:47.319
<v Speaker 7>of things.

544
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 2>It feels like it must have taken a lot longer

545
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.480
<v Speaker 2>just because of the depth of the material. And then

546
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 2>just how good the book looks. Who did your layout

547
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:56.599
<v Speaker 2>for this?

548
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Braw and lang la y and g I'm pretty sure

549
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:03.359
<v Speaker 1>is the layout got?

550
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.400
<v Speaker 7>It looks so beautiful.

551
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Ramsey hads at times made comments to me about how expensive.

552
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:14.200
<v Speaker 1>Some of the previous books I've done for him have

553
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.119
<v Speaker 1>been some of those pop and popular fiction books which

554
00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:21.640
<v Speaker 1>are also full color illustrated books. So I said, oh, look,

555
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:23.880
<v Speaker 1>maybe just a few black and white five ties, Ramsey,

556
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 1>we don't need a lot, just a couple of things,

557
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and I said, oh, love, I think we should like

558
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:30.799
<v Speaker 1>a full color you know, that increases the appeal of

559
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.640
<v Speaker 1>the book. And I've just done an absolutely stupendous job

560
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 1>on this.

561
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:39.799
<v Speaker 4>That part is so important because so much of the

562
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.240
<v Speaker 4>marketing for these films, like so many incredible posters and

563
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:48.079
<v Speaker 4>promo images, and it just I don't think it would

564
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.559
<v Speaker 4>be nearly as dynamic without showing so much of that

565
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Speaker 4>so boring to most people.

566
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Which is something we strenuously wanted to avoid.

567
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.000
<v Speaker 2>When the cover price is not that bad compared to

568
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:04.640
<v Speaker 2>how thick and juicy this book is better.

569
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:08.440
<v Speaker 4>Than working with an academic publisher where you're not really

570
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 4>allowed to include color images and a book half that size.

571
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.679
<v Speaker 4>It's they're like, all right, that'll be eighty dollars.

572
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:19.320
<v Speaker 1>It'd be made one hundred and forty one hundred and fifty.

573
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.239
<v Speaker 7>When US dollars.

574
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.519
<v Speaker 4>I feel like them Press have been so great to

575
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 4>work with, and some of it is they seem very

576
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:33.519
<v Speaker 4>aware that they're trying to put together a book package

577
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.519
<v Speaker 4>that people will want to read, like making it easier

578
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.960
<v Speaker 4>for people, whereas so many other publishing companies that I've

579
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.719
<v Speaker 4>worked for seem to not want people to read or

580
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.360
<v Speaker 4>buy the books. It's like, why are you guys in business?

581
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Pam's thing is really he's really about getting books in

582
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:57.360
<v Speaker 1>the hands of paper. Ramsey's a massive bibliophile. He's constantly lamenting.

583
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:57.320
<v Speaker 6>To me.

584
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:01.119
<v Speaker 1>That the people out rating as much as they used to.

585
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.039
<v Speaker 1>So the whole thing is constantly trying to get books

586
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.079
<v Speaker 1>as good books as possible at the chiefest price possible,

587
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>and move them as much as possible and to people

588
00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:14.480
<v Speaker 1>who will read them. PM prins they are a radical publisher.

589
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:18.039
<v Speaker 1>PM Press obviously a distributor that gets the books into shops,

590
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:22.840
<v Speaker 1>but they do a large number of festivals, concerts, political events.

591
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.360
<v Speaker 1>They're always having tables at all these sort of conferences

592
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and events that where they move books and a lot

593
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:36.119
<v Speaker 1>of stuff on music, punk culture and anarchist culture. They

594
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:40.920
<v Speaker 1>do some tremendous stuff. They also released I noticed because

595
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.960
<v Speaker 1>there's an ad in the back of our book for them.

596
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.639
<v Speaker 1>They also released a book on the Angry Brigade, which

597
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.400
<v Speaker 1>was this British urban guerrilla group in the nineteen seventies,

598
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:50.679
<v Speaker 1>so I'm going to have to pick that up.

599
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 6>And they also put out a two.

600
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:56.159
<v Speaker 1>Volume documentary history of the Red Army Faction.

601
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:57.960
<v Speaker 7>This is the struggle.

602
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.480
<v Speaker 4>Every time I go on their website, I just want

603
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.159
<v Speaker 4>to buy everything, and I'm doing so. They're going to

604
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:07.440
<v Speaker 4>have a I don't know when this episode is coming out,

605
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:12.079
<v Speaker 4>but on Sunday, the twenty ninth, they are doing the

606
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:16.239
<v Speaker 4>Brooklyn Book Festival, and I'm going to go and sign things,

607
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:17.679
<v Speaker 4>and I feel like I'm going to have to leave

608
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:19.679
<v Speaker 4>my wallet at home because i know I'm going to

609
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.119
<v Speaker 4>want to buy everything that they have at this table.

610
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

611
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.079
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about some of the events that you're doing

612
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.039
<v Speaker 2>to support the book.

613
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:30.480
<v Speaker 4>My first event is on Wednesday, the twenty fifth at

614
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:36.440
<v Speaker 4>Philamocha in Pennsylvania. In Philadelphia, I'm doing a secret screening

615
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.880
<v Speaker 4>of a Japanese pinky violence movie all about very angry

616
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.280
<v Speaker 4>teenage girls of course played by early to mid twenties

617
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.119
<v Speaker 4>actresses destroying a high school. And then I will be

618
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.239
<v Speaker 4>at the Brooklyn Book Festival on the twenty ninth. I

619
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.840
<v Speaker 4>think my next event that tickets aren't for sale yet,

620
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:03.320
<v Speaker 4>but October twenty eighth, I'm doing a screening at the

621
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:08.480
<v Speaker 4>Nighthawk in Brooklyn. I'm showing this German film called Bloody

622
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.840
<v Speaker 4>Friday that had script contributions from Fernando de Lio So

623
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:17.039
<v Speaker 4>if you like his Policziuteski films, you have an idea

624
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:17.960
<v Speaker 4>what to expect.

625
00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 7>But it's basically a.

626
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Very violent German crime movie where the bank robbers are

627
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:29.079
<v Speaker 4>politically motivated. And then I'm doing a couple of events

628
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:34.119
<v Speaker 4>in Chicago in the middle of November, and I'm booking

629
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:39.280
<v Speaker 4>things for La in January, so I will have all

630
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 4>of those posted on Instagram once tickets become available.

631
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>And Andrew, are you doing anything over in Melbourne for this?

632
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm not doing any events.

633
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I of Red Belbert.

634
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.079
<v Speaker 1>I am doing a lot of podcasts and various other

635
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:58.239
<v Speaker 1>activities online to try j yapp support for the book

636
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:03.360
<v Speaker 1>at Envious of Sam Bay Rep, Cinema Central as they

637
00:38:03.400 --> 00:38:04.480
<v Speaker 1>are in New York.

638
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:09.840
<v Speaker 7>Pise, Yes, that's Rott.

639
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Is there a volume two in the works?

640
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:16.639
<v Speaker 4>People keep asking me this and I'm like, I don't know,

641
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 4>this just came out.

642
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, give us a bride, give us a sick.

643
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.800
<v Speaker 2>I know that you both work on a ton of

644
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.480
<v Speaker 2>things all the time, though, so I wouldn't put it

645
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>past you.

646
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 4>That definitely was the struggle. Like we were saying earlier,

647
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:35.960
<v Speaker 4>I feel like the struggle of this is there. Once

648
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:43.360
<v Speaker 4>you go down these different national, regional rabbit holes, it's oh, now,

649
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 4>here's a list of four hundred other movies that we

650
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:46.199
<v Speaker 4>could include.

651
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:50.000
<v Speaker 7>So we certainly could do a second volume. But I think.

652
00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 4>Because this just came out, it's a little bit hard

653
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:56.360
<v Speaker 4>to tell how into it people are. And I think

654
00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 4>working with a publisher, if you want to do a

655
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:03.639
<v Speaker 4>second volume, they need some hard evidence that the first

656
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:05.079
<v Speaker 4>volume is well received.

657
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:07.840
<v Speaker 2>I have no doubt that people are going to eat

658
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.480
<v Speaker 2>this up because it is so good and I had

659
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:13.039
<v Speaker 2>such a good time. Other than that one essay about

660
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Peter Watkins, everything else in that book is fantastic.

661
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:18.760
<v Speaker 1>That the guy who did that essay was a bit

662
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:21.639
<v Speaker 1>light with the contribution I saim to remember, we had

663
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.800
<v Speaker 1>to constantly get you, come on, get it to us.

664
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, sounds about right, he tells, written under duress.

665
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hear it does a bit of podcasting, so

666
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:33.239
<v Speaker 1>you might have been busy.

667
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:36.039
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he's you know, he's not busy. He just hangs

668
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:38.840
<v Speaker 4>out and watches a lot of drag Race.

669
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.679
<v Speaker 1>Hangs out the hottop watching drag Race live in the dream.

670
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Now I've switched over to Guy Mont's Spelling Bee, so

671
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:48.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've had a chance to watch

672
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:50.159
<v Speaker 2>that one, but definitely check it out.

673
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:51.599
<v Speaker 7>I don't even know what that is.

674
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 1>No, I have no idea what that even did.

675
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember if he's from New Zealand or if

676
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.719
<v Speaker 2>he's from Australia. But Guy Montgomery a big fan of

677
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the Australian task Master as well as the KI Week

678
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:05.320
<v Speaker 2>task Master.

679
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:08.599
<v Speaker 7>What's task Man? This is a whole world I don't

680
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:10.599
<v Speaker 7>know about task masters.

681
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:13.519
<v Speaker 2>This great TV show, Oh my gosh, I'll have to

682
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:14.320
<v Speaker 2>send you guys.

683
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:21.719
<v Speaker 1>Sounds like the sort of tain Y I Novo series Mosca.

684
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:23.599
<v Speaker 7>Is it a reality TV show?

685
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.719
<v Speaker 2>It's basically five comedians and they make them do stupid

686
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 2>things and they record them doing it, and then they

687
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:33.159
<v Speaker 2>bring them back to the studio and they replay the

688
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:36.559
<v Speaker 2>stupid things that they did and get their reactions from it,

689
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>and then they're judged by the task Master and he

690
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.000
<v Speaker 2>gives them points for how well or not well they

691
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:44.199
<v Speaker 2>did on these things.

692
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:48.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is like a whole most reality television and

693
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:53.440
<v Speaker 4>this kind of like performative reaction television is a whole

694
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.760
<v Speaker 4>world that I am not familiar with.

695
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:59.719
<v Speaker 2>It is hilarious, I have to say, so, it's really

696
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.039
<v Speaker 2>good stuff when you are not writing books. Andrew, where

697
00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:05.119
<v Speaker 2>can people filld view online?

698
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:09.119
<v Speaker 1>They can sawn may lasted all over social media, often

699
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:12.440
<v Speaker 1>under the Monika pulp Curry, and they can also have

700
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 1>sawned me doing a substack newsletter under my own I'm

701
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Netty on.

702
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Substack and Sam how about yourself?

703
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.599
<v Speaker 4>You can find me on Instagram under my own name,

704
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:29.440
<v Speaker 4>very boringly and also on Patreon, and I think those

705
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:32.039
<v Speaker 4>are the only two places I'm online.

706
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.280
<v Speaker 2>And where's the best place to buy the book?

707
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 7>Through PM press? At this point?

708
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:41.559
<v Speaker 4>I think it's available through most online booksellers from what

709
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:45.119
<v Speaker 4>people have been telling me. Also, Diabolic DVD is selling it,

710
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:48.079
<v Speaker 4>so if you're on there to buy some Blu rays,

711
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.480
<v Speaker 4>please add it to your cart. Vinegar Syndrome should also

712
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.679
<v Speaker 4>have it on their store soon.

713
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.719
<v Speaker 1>I think it's because it's should be asked. Yes, it's

714
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.840
<v Speaker 1>basically on all the online LA's fall. You can also

715
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.119
<v Speaker 1>get it via the Great Satan Amazon, and you can

716
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:09.519
<v Speaker 1>obviously buy it from PM press in terms of in stores.

717
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>It should be hitting US bookstores roundabout now.

718
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:14.719
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

719
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.119
<v Speaker 4>Someone wrote me a day or two ago saying they

720
00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:18.920
<v Speaker 4>found it in a Chicago bookstore.

721
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Really now that's starting to come out. That's great, UK people.

722
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:28.440
<v Speaker 1>It should be out if the distributor should be getting

723
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:33.280
<v Speaker 1>it sometime in early October. Australian peeps.

724
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:35.559
<v Speaker 6>Hey, that's just a luck.

725
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:39.400
<v Speaker 1>The distributor will be getting it out. But I also

726
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.519
<v Speaker 1>have copies. Track hunt me down and get a copy

727
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:42.840
<v Speaker 1>off me.

728
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Sam and Andrew, thank you so much for your time.

729
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:47.000
<v Speaker 2>This was fantastic.

730
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 7>Thank you so much.

731
00:42:49.079 --> 00:43:00.119
<v Speaker 6>Thank you that.

732
00:43:02.800 --> 00:44:09.079
<v Speaker 8>That squab that someday something something something something that something.

733
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.880
<v Speaker 6>Do that? Do that?

734
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:07.480
<v Speaker 5>Do that?

735
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:17.880
<v Speaker 8>Do you think that that that you ta.

736
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:19.719
<v Speaker 1>Do?

737
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 8>What you can? Bum in grind.

738
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:53.639
<v Speaker 1>It is good for your mind.

739
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:57.199
<v Speaker 6>Why you can do showers?

740
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Letty it all hang out, but you shout the children shine.

741
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.400
<v Speaker 8>Waiting til of playing.

742
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:24.639
<v Speaker 5>In the fall and rain.

743
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:28.880
<v Speaker 6>I'd rather Rose Rose.

744
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.079
<v Speaker 1>Because he's good for my boy.

745
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:40.559
<v Speaker 3>But you the children of the river, shoo the children

746
00:47:40.639 --> 00:48:19.679
<v Speaker 3>of the river shall the children of the.

747
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:23.360
<v Speaker 6>Shot, now you long the children.

748
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:25.639
<v Speaker 8>Shot down?

749
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Get wong the child on the shot, now long the

750
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:36.119
<v Speaker 3>children on the shot.

751
00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:37.519
<v Speaker 5>Is own way.

752
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 8>Standing step step wo