Speaker 1: Yeah, it can use across crypto assets. We think stable
Speaker 1: coins are probably the more obvious ones where it's going
Speaker 1: to start, just because that's closest to the FIAT that
Speaker 1: people may be used to today. But we absolutely think
Speaker 1: it's going to expand from there. And what I'll add
Speaker 1: is that, like we grew up in a world where
Speaker 1: the Internet was built for humans, but more and more
Speaker 1: AI out there, we have to reconfigure these systems so
Speaker 1: that they work for AI agents so they can do
Speaker 1: what we're asking of them.
Speaker 2: This content is brought to you by bitco, which is
Speaker 2: one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry.
Speaker 2: Bitco works with many big companies and brands such as
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Speaker 2: with its top level security and incredible services such as
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Speaker 2: which includes lending, borrowing, trading, staking, DeFi access and more.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit
Speaker 2: bitgo dot com link in a description. Welcome into the
Speaker 2: Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my
Speaker 2: guests today are Nimil de Laul, who's the head of
Speaker 2: the coin based Developer Platform, and Dan Kim, who's head
Speaker 2: of business development the coinbased Developer Platform. Gentlemen, great to
Speaker 2: have you both on.
Speaker 1: It's great to see you Tony, really, sait it beyond
Speaker 1: good to see you again.
Speaker 3: Tony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan, you and I have spoken before, so great
Speaker 2: to have you on. And Guys, I am very excited
Speaker 2: to speak to you both. And that's not the cliche
Speaker 2: statement I'm sure you probably here on podcasts. I'm actually
Speaker 2: speaking to one of your other colleagues to figure out
Speaker 2: how I can use these AI agents and have them
Speaker 2: work for me and collect payment in USDCE or other crypto.
Speaker 2: So I'm really fascinated by this technology and I want
Speaker 2: to use it. But before we get to all the
Speaker 2: details around that, let's start off with quick introductions. Nimil
Speaker 2: kick us off. Tell us about yourself and what you
Speaker 2: do at coinbase.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is to Meil Eli our coinbased Developer
Speaker 1: platform team. Think about it if you're a developer, you
Speaker 1: need to be able to build a crypto app. We
Speaker 1: have all the tools to be able to let you
Speaker 1: do that from nodes, indexer, secure wallets, free USDC sends
Speaker 1: on base and much more. And my journey into crypto
Speaker 1: was I was in y combinator with Brian and Fred
Speaker 1: when they started the company. It was doing another startup
Speaker 1: and they gave me my first bitcoin. I got started
Speaker 1: digging into this, got super excited about it, and eventually
Speaker 1: I joined Coinbase. At Coinbase, I led USDC. So this
Speaker 1: is a venture that they're believing, you know, in a
Speaker 1: stable coin thought this could be really huge thing for
Speaker 1: the world and industry. So work very closely with the
Speaker 1: biology stream of US and at the time it was
Speaker 1: our CTO to be able to help grow that. And
Speaker 1: now I'm leading our developer tools business.
Speaker 4: Awesome and Dan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've been with Claimbers for about three and a
Speaker 5: half years now and oversee business development and partnerships mostly
Speaker 5: with developers and builders doing cool stuff in crypto and
Speaker 5: on blockchain. Started a journey here on a listing's team
Speaker 5: uh and got to meet a bunch of asset issuers
Speaker 5: who are doing cool things and as a result of
Speaker 5: just learning more about what they're doing and all the
Speaker 5: exciting things that they you know, have have in mind
Speaker 5: expanded to really do bead and partnerships in the space,
Speaker 5: working closely with the Meal, and uh, you know, we're
Speaker 5: really excited today in particular to talk about I think
Speaker 5: what's going to be the convergence at AI and crypto,
Speaker 5: and it's something that we're just you know, seeing as
Speaker 5: being a big catalyst for keeping me and the Meal
Speaker 5: busy with a lot of the things that we're doing here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Dan, And I'm so fascinated, like I
Speaker 2: said before, about uh, this use case, the convergence and
Speaker 2: how these two technologies are going to work together. And
Speaker 2: there seems to be a symbiotic relationship where blockchain can
Speaker 2: be used to police AI in different ways de fakes
Speaker 2: and so forth, but AI can be used to enhance
Speaker 2: blockchain attributes. Tell us about I guess your thesis behind
Speaker 2: using AI agents and crypto and how did the idea
Speaker 2: come about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so first of all, let's say that these are
Speaker 1: two independent technologies that all have value of their own.
Speaker 3: So AI you can.
Speaker 1: See just the transformation that's done in terms of what
Speaker 1: can be done quickly, easily, at scale, across vast amounts
Speaker 1: of data. And with crypto, we basically what have what
Speaker 1: I cause like an internet of ownership that open, transparent
Speaker 1: leisure that anyone can look at and understand, where someone
Speaker 1: who owns what in that world. The powerful thing is.
Speaker 1: I think there are two angles where they come together.
Speaker 1: One angle is that they're builders out there in the world,
Speaker 1: and AI makes building easier. And so let's say they're
Speaker 1: twenty five million software developers in the world, but a
Speaker 1: small fraction of that work in crypto, maybe thirty to
Speaker 1: fifty thousand developers. Today with AI, we're seeing people who've
Speaker 1: never codd before. We're seeing people who've coded a lot,
Speaker 1: but we're actually just run an engineers who want to
Speaker 1: write a full application deploy it, and they're able to
Speaker 1: do it in a matter of minutes. And think about this,
Speaker 1: you know, compared to a world of five ten years ago,
Speaker 1: might you might need a computer science degree to be
Speaker 1: able to launch an application. You might need to at
Speaker 1: least go through a boot camp to learn all the details.
Speaker 1: That's a transformational thing. And so I think what we're
Speaker 1: seeing is that they're more and more builders that are
Speaker 1: able to interact on chain than ever before as a
Speaker 1: result of AI. So that's one angle that we've been
Speaker 1: seeing in a really big way. The other angle is
Speaker 1: that AI itself cannot get a bank account, but AI
Speaker 1: agents need wallets to be able to do stuff the
Speaker 1: same way you know, us as humans need a credit
Speaker 1: card to be able to go buy something to build
Speaker 1: a few by if you're building blocks together, you know,
Speaker 1: at a hardware store and put those together, and the
Speaker 1: same way AI can interact in that world. And that's
Speaker 1: why the blockchain is so powerful for that use case.
Speaker 1: So that AI can basically take some crypto, It can
Speaker 1: go ahead and either human to give it some information
Speaker 1: that it critically needs to answer a query that it's getting.
Speaker 1: It can go to a data API and pay for
Speaker 1: that because hey, it can't swipe a credit card, you
Speaker 1: can't sign up for an API, keep it can directly
Speaker 1: hit that data, pay for it in crypto on chain
Speaker 1: and then use that. And so there's the two like
Speaker 1: really big things that we're seeing thematically excited to go
Speaker 1: through more examples of that, but those are the two
Speaker 1: ways that we really see it coming together.
Speaker 3: Tony.
Speaker 5: There, I'm dating myself here, but there was a many
Speaker 5: many years ago.
Speaker 3: When I was.
Speaker 5: At cal College. One of the courses I took was
Speaker 5: an HTML course. You can imagine how useless that is
Speaker 5: now with solutions like word price and scores spaces that
Speaker 5: are out there. I think this is exactly what's happening
Speaker 5: in crypto today because of AI. You know, both technologies
Speaker 5: and particularly crypto is becoming a lot more accessible and
Speaker 5: people can really leverage its full strength, but just how
Speaker 5: a vision and an idea of what they want to do.
Speaker 5: And even last year this wasn't possible. So that's one
Speaker 5: of the reasons why we're so excited about this space
Speaker 5: is because it just opens up the space to anybody
Speaker 5: who wants to build and really enhance the things that
Speaker 5: they're building because of what CRYPTO could do.
Speaker 2: M you know, as you guys are saying those things
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about, I could be sleeping and I can
Speaker 2: have an AI agent doing things on my behalf, whether
Speaker 2: it's selling or buying or helping somebody providing a service
Speaker 2: and collecting payment, and I can wake up and have
Speaker 2: a wallet with funds in it, or I could have
Speaker 2: a product delivered to me that the AI agent went
Speaker 2: out and paid for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I think one of the most obvious use
Speaker 1: cases is that it's there. It's trading on crypto out
Speaker 1: on chain, so for example, it's hitting uniswat, it's hitting
Speaker 1: different forms of DEXes and exchanges that are out there
Speaker 1: in the world. It's making some money that's showing up
Speaker 1: in your wallet, and then when you wake up, the
Speaker 1: AI has done that throughout the hours, and unlike you
Speaker 1: know traditional financial markets, crypto it is twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: So that's a really good example where when you're sleeping
Speaker 1: you need someone to think about, let's say, you know
Speaker 1: other parts of the world, who's trading in those parts
Speaker 1: of the world, and what can AI do during that time.
Speaker 2: Now, you guys recently successfully conducted an AI to AI
Speaker 2: agent crypto transaction.
Speaker 4: Tuls about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan, do you want to take that?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean, look, we've been experimenting with a lot of
Speaker 5: like what's possible here, and I think there's like two
Speaker 5: things that we've been leaning into. One is AI to
Speaker 5: AI and another is what we'll call it AD a human,
Speaker 5: which is also very interesting. The thing that we love
Speaker 5: about AI agents is their ability to scale in a
Speaker 5: very intelligent way and by conversing with other AI agents.
Speaker 5: Imagine all the cool things that you can do that
Speaker 5: would take humans.
Speaker 3: A long time to do or may not do it
Speaker 3: in a very accurate way.
Speaker 5: So we're really excited about that in the application of crypto.
Speaker 5: And one example that come to mind as to why
Speaker 5: AIDS agent agent is interesting is imagine going cross chain. Right, So,
Speaker 5: unless you're you know, I guess if you're a crypto expert,
Speaker 5: it's probably easy, but imagine just being able to tell
Speaker 5: somebody or at the AI agent what you want, and
Speaker 5: based on that natural language instet of instructions, the agent
Speaker 5: kind of goespigure it out on its own and finds
Speaker 5: other agents, maybe you representing other chains to do cool
Speaker 5: stuff that completely abstracts away the complexities of, you know what,
Speaker 5: what the human needs to know in order to convert
Speaker 5: for example, USDC on base from u SEC on Salona
Speaker 5: for example. Right, So that's what we're really leaning into,
Speaker 5: and that whole AI to AI it's really more of
Speaker 5: a metaphor for all the cool things that can happen faster,
Speaker 5: more accurately, in a more compelling way just because of
Speaker 5: what AI AI agents can do, which is becomes smarter
Speaker 5: bots right, and then therefore abstract away a lot of
Speaker 5: the complexities that humans shouldn't really have to worry about
Speaker 5: and execute that just based trip on the vision of
Speaker 5: what the human wants to do.
Speaker 2: And the transaction was done with USDC right. And can
Speaker 2: it go to other crypto assets as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can use across crypto assets. We think stable
Speaker 1: coins are probably the more obvious one where it's going
Speaker 1: to start, just because that's closest to the FIAT that
Speaker 1: people may be used to today, but we absolutely think
Speaker 1: it's going to expand from there. And what I'll add
Speaker 1: is that, like we grew up in a world with
Speaker 1: the Internet was built for humans, but with more and
Speaker 1: more AI out there, we have to reconfigure these systems
Speaker 1: so that they work for AI agents so they can
Speaker 1: do what we're asking of them. And this is exactly
Speaker 1: why I think this AI to AI example is so interesting,
Speaker 1: is that, like in this one example, it was a
Speaker 1: generalized AI conversational interface that needed a very specific, specialized
Speaker 1: AI interface. So it's no different than one human, you know,
Speaker 1: who might be a journalist who wants a very specific
Speaker 1: skill set. They may want to reach out to a
Speaker 1: programmer who's super deep to know some details and they
Speaker 1: want it. They need to be able to transact to
Speaker 1: be able to do that, and in this case the
Speaker 1: transaction was USDC. It was moved on base and one
Speaker 1: agent is able to talk to the other agent to
Speaker 1: be able to ask for that. And in this case,
Speaker 1: there's a WebCrawler that is an AI agent that can
Speaker 1: look like on the Internet, figure out exactly what the
Speaker 1: Internet is saying and put that into specific tokens that
Speaker 1: can be consumed by an AI and that's what the
Speaker 1: second AI agent needed.
Speaker 3: ME agent today, for example, can't go to the New
Speaker 3: York Times.
Speaker 5: And pay for an article right or get the latest
Speaker 5: weather forecast. Humans can do that because they're marketing things
Speaker 5: out there to kind of incentivize.
Speaker 3: So I still twenty subscribe.
Speaker 5: But imagine a world where an AI agent can actually
Speaker 5: go to a New York Times or a weather service
Speaker 5: right and be able to buy pieces of data or
Speaker 5: an article just strictly based on what it needs, and
Speaker 5: not to do anything other than pay the other AI
Speaker 5: agent in this case the New York Times a lot
Speaker 5: for example, for that transaction, right, instead of a human
Speaker 5: kind of going out there and entering your credit card
Speaker 5: in and that very complex, and that's what we're really
Speaker 5: excited about is just the scaling possibilities from you know,
Speaker 5: what can happen is that they're fractionalized access to data
Speaker 5: in a very meaningful way.
Speaker 2: Walk us through this setup of that. How does the
Speaker 2: AI agent connect to the respective wallet and when you
Speaker 2: expand to other currencies is the wallet is it going
Speaker 2: to be like a web three naming a wallet address
Speaker 2: where it behind the scenes, it can support Salon, it
Speaker 2: can support eth, it can support bitcoin.
Speaker 4: You know, how does all that work?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what we do with coin based developer platform
Speaker 1: it would we offer something called an NPC want, which
Speaker 1: is an API based wallet. So think about like really
Speaker 1: simple calls. You can say create wallet. I can say
Speaker 1: mint n FT or mint or create erc twenty token
Speaker 1: or trade it and behind the scenes it goes to
Speaker 1: a decks and trades it. Those are all examples of
Speaker 1: what this API wallet or NPC walt can do. And
Speaker 1: so what an AI can do is directly because it
Speaker 1: can make API calls, it can directly hit this API
Speaker 1: and do whatever that API allows it to do. Now,
Speaker 1: the magic part of this is that because it's on
Speaker 1: the blockchain, it can do all the things that the
Speaker 1: blockchain allows, which is a ton of stuff today, and
Speaker 1: so today, like where we're starting is we're starting with Ethereum,
Speaker 1: We're starting with base, but we're slowly expanding out the
Speaker 1: number of networks that we support, and we're slowly expanding
Speaker 1: that into EVM to get started first over time, absolutely
Speaker 1: we want to support all the different blockchain networks that
Speaker 1: are out there, and then you're able to do the
Speaker 1: AI is able to interact with those networks in full,
Speaker 1: so whatever smart contracts are there, it can directly interact
Speaker 1: with that. And so the simplest example to start maybe literally,
Speaker 1: it just wants to launch an RC twenty token and
Speaker 1: tell the world about it. You know, it's hooked up
Speaker 1: to Twitter, similar the truth Terminal or other examples out there.
Speaker 1: It wants to tell the world a little bit about
Speaker 1: this token, why it launched it, and anyone can then
Speaker 1: be able to access it. But you can imagine a
Speaker 1: world where it gets much more sophisticated than that. It's
Speaker 1: the one that you know, goes to UNISWAP or other
Speaker 1: texts and is able or aerodrome and is able to
Speaker 1: actually decide when to trade, how much to trade, maybe
Speaker 1: to market make to provide liquidity into those markets. So
Speaker 1: we're just scratching the surface of what is possible with
Speaker 1: just launching ARC twenties. But I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: more coming Tony.
Speaker 5: The fact that you asked that question is exactly the
Speaker 5: problem we're trying to solve here, right. You just can't
Speaker 5: have people worrying about what network you're on, what you know, what,
Speaker 5: what what token you have, what wallet you have, whether
Speaker 5: or not your wallet support it self. To imagine, if
Speaker 5: you know, we're the cell phones we have today, where
Speaker 5: I'd ask you are you using Verizon or using AT
Speaker 5: and t oh should I can't do that?
Speaker 3: Well? You know so so so right now it doesn't
Speaker 3: really matter.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: That is the vision that we have for crypto and
Speaker 5: especially for developers and users, and AI is just the
Speaker 5: way to get us there. It understands code, it's this
Speaker 5: natural language is software code, as is cryptos, and you
Speaker 5: just have to train it and train it is probably
Speaker 5: where the difficulty is. But and that's one of the reasons,
Speaker 5: you know, we we built CDP coomans developer platform to
Speaker 5: make a lot of that a lot easier.
Speaker 3: To use with training models and AI agents so you.
Speaker 5: Know, we want to take away all the We don't
Speaker 5: want you asking that question, right, We want to be like,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, I get it.
Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons.
Speaker 5: Why we're we're investing so much in CDP is to
Speaker 5: make crypto not complex and to make crypt as easy
Speaker 5: as possible to use for anybody who has a vision.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I know interoperability is like a big thing
Speaker 2: that many folks are working on, so that's going to
Speaker 2: be key for global adoption. I apologize if you address this,
Speaker 2: but I want to make sure I'm clear on my end.
Speaker 2: The AI agents that are being created, they're on chain
Speaker 2: right or they outside outside and they just connected a wallet.
Speaker 1: The agents are off chain in that like they have
Speaker 1: to work in traditional infrastructure, but they access the wallet
Speaker 1: epis that allow it to transact anything on chain as well.
Speaker 1: With based agent, you can go to CDP, dot coin
Speaker 1: based dot com today and in three minutes spin up
Speaker 1: an AI agent using open AI swarm, and then you
Speaker 1: connect that to our NPC wallets and you can deploy
Speaker 1: that in zero to three minutes total, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: you have an AI agent that has a wallet that
Speaker 1: can do any transaction on chain.
Speaker 5: With those wallets, and interoperability isn't just between chains, right,
Speaker 5: it's between on chain and off chain as well. That's
Speaker 5: one of the things that we're super excited about. You know,
Speaker 5: if you wanted to use based agent, the Agent kit
Speaker 5: that we recently announced, it can do anything as long
Speaker 5: as there's a Plython API available, right, So imagine the
Speaker 5: possibilities there. Whether it's a Web two or Web three
Speaker 5: tech stack, that agent can go in between.
Speaker 3: Worlds and do cool things.
Speaker 5: Now we're going to start talking about how AI can
Speaker 5: benefit from one chain. I think there's really good discussions
Speaker 5: around training data and having that being mutable and putting
Speaker 5: that on chain. But as far as like the agents themselves,
Speaker 5: we kind of want them to go in between and
Speaker 5: you know, in and out of being unchained, right.
Speaker 3: In order to be really effective.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: So when I, let's say I generate that AI agent,
Speaker 2: I got the wallet and so forth, do I need
Speaker 2: to have or am I given the twenty four seed phrase?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 4: Is it a self hosted wallet? How does that all work? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So we have different options. The traditional one that people
Speaker 1: that are using is we have a two of two
Speaker 1: wallet where you have two shards, and both of those
Speaker 1: shards are needed to be able to sign, and in
Speaker 1: that example, the user or the AI agent is holding
Speaker 1: onto one, so it could be the user that's instantiating
Speaker 1: the AI agent is holding onto that one of those
Speaker 1: shards and then giving into the AI agent to be
Speaker 1: able to call, and then we're holding and supporting the
Speaker 1: other side. And that way, like you can't just go
Speaker 1: hack one thing or attack one thing to be able
Speaker 1: to take the funds as part of that. But kinnily,
Speaker 1: like I would just say, we're just getting started, and
Speaker 1: that like in the last month is really when I
Speaker 1: think crypto and AI that connectivity is really taken off
Speaker 1: truth terminal. There's so many really powerful experiments on Forecaster
Speaker 1: and on Twitter today that I wouldn't be surprised that
Speaker 1: there are new Walt and Key models and we're working
Speaker 1: on those ourselves, and there's some fun announcements coming at
Speaker 1: deb Com from our side. But wouldn't be surprised is that,
Speaker 1: like slowly, the WAT models are going to change so
Speaker 1: that the AI agent is the only one that knows
Speaker 1: it's key and can then hold full and absolute custody
Speaker 1: of those funds and decide exactly what it wants to do,
Speaker 1: and I think we're just getting started because the tools
Speaker 1: are like this is a brand new use case that
Speaker 1: never existed before. And that's maybe one plug I want
Speaker 1: to give to your to your viewers is that if
Speaker 1: you're building today, this is one of the most exciting
Speaker 1: times to build because these things have never been brought
Speaker 1: together in this way. And every day, like when I
Speaker 1: look on Twitter, I see like brand new experiments that
Speaker 1: people have never done before. Like literally just a month
Speaker 1: ago was the first time someone send funds to an
Speaker 1: AI agent and gave its own crypto wallet and did it.
Speaker 1: And that was like thirty sixty days ago. What's going
Speaker 1: to happen the next ninety days. That's gonna happen in the
Speaker 1: next hundred and eighty days. So I would just say,
Speaker 1: if you're a builder today, this is one of the
Speaker 1: most exciting times to start experimenting, working with open ai,
Speaker 1: working with other AI agents that are out there, and
Speaker 1: hooking them up into coin based developer platform.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to be in full disclosure, like I've spoken
Speaker 2: to Lincoln on your team and we started going through
Speaker 2: his guide that he put together because I want to
Speaker 2: leverage this technology. I want to stay ahead of the curve.
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating, you know, I know, once again still
Speaker 2: early and you guys are still you know, figuring it out.
Speaker 2: We're going to be further iterations and so forth. Aside
Speaker 2: from let's say developers, are you also looking at how
Speaker 2: creators like myself can leverage this technology and automate certain
Speaker 2: things or provide certain services maybe on social media like
Speaker 2: answering questions and people tipping me and things like that.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think there's a lot of discussion over the
Speaker 5: past couple of years on how crypto and blockchain in
Speaker 5: particular could perhaps help equilibrate the creator economy or the
Speaker 5: imbalance there is where I think a lot of the
Speaker 5: way the world works today in the creator economy is
Speaker 5: based on views, and that you know, incentivices or at
Speaker 5: least creates the wrong incentives I think for kind of
Speaker 5: up and coming artists and creators to be immediately relevant.
Speaker 5: We like crypto in a creator space because of the
Speaker 5: payments angle, But how do you scale that?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 5: And one of the things that you do need to
Speaker 5: do is is scale very quickly in order to kind
Speaker 5: of compete with these traditional platforms that have massive viewers.
Speaker 5: That have really advanced algorithms to kind of direct a
Speaker 5: traffic to the right places. Right, So really excited about
Speaker 5: the impact of AI and crypto in particular in the
Speaker 5: creator space because it's going to be able to do
Speaker 5: a lot more to enable scale for creators who want
Speaker 5: to reach much larger audiences identify and reach much larger
Speaker 5: audiences in an authentic and engaging way.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: A lot of the automations and bots that you see
Speaker 5: there are exactly that.
Speaker 3: They're very not smart.
Speaker 5: You basically pay a bunch of money actually to these
Speaker 5: other platforms they find you followers for you or viewers
Speaker 5: for you in a very binary and old school kind
Speaker 5: of way. With AI agents because they're getting a lot
Speaker 5: more lot smarter or meaningful, more engaging, and they understand
Speaker 5: people's psyche to a point where you don't might not
Speaker 5: even know you're talking to an agent. Imagine imposing up
Speaker 5: or or putting in printing a personality of a creator
Speaker 5: or an influencer in the form of an AI agent
Speaker 5: too ay out there and start to identify. Oh wait
Speaker 5: a minute, I see this discussion happening in this forum
Speaker 5: and never heard before. Let me let me get in
Speaker 5: there and start having these conversations and beyond that, making
Speaker 5: those engagements meaningful by everything crypto can do, whether it's monetizing,
Speaker 5: Hey let me give you some USCC for doing cool
Speaker 5: stuff for me, or hey, oh here's an NFT that
Speaker 5: I just created for you. Right, So, if you believe
Speaker 5: in a world where crypto is going to start to
Speaker 5: advance you know, financial systems, and if you believe in
Speaker 5: a world where AA agents can start to scale meaningful,
Speaker 5: authentic engagements conversations combined two together and your starting, your
Speaker 5: head starts to explode a little bit, right in terms
Speaker 5: of what's possible. And that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 5: I hide, one of the you know, the largest k
Speaker 5: pop rep companies in the world, recently announced a partnership
Speaker 5: of coin based to exactly that for what it sees
Speaker 5: as the future in creator economy right is to really
Speaker 5: leverage AI agents and crypto and blockchain to be able
Speaker 5: to create and reinvent the.
Speaker 3: Creator economy in a much more meaningful way that.
Speaker 5: Allows you know, up and coming creators and creators that
Speaker 5: don't have millions of viewers to be able to do
Speaker 5: very effective things using both AI and crypto as on.
Speaker 3: Your tech stack.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's amazing. I love that you guys have formed
Speaker 2: that partnership. And I know the create economy is growing,
Speaker 2: its media is becoming decentualized. You know, obviously money and
Speaker 2: movement of value and so forth to become more decentralized.
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating. It's a brave new world we're headed to.
Speaker 3: We should do an.
Speaker 5: AI version of you and multiple of these interviews at
Speaker 5: the same time in a meaningful way with these same reactions.
Speaker 5: And I'm joking, but that's exactly the vision that companies
Speaker 5: like High have, right is, is how do we take
Speaker 5: what we know about the artists and creators that represent
Speaker 5: and start to let them engage with their audiences in
Speaker 5: a much more meaningful and prolific way whilst not having
Speaker 5: to stay up, you know, one hundred hours a week or
Speaker 5: twenty every single tweet out there and not being classified
Speaker 5: as just a bought right so and then making those
Speaker 5: real with crypto transactions and its teasers and see what
Speaker 5: have you. That's what we're really excited about.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Something I was thinking about before, you know, we had
Speaker 2: this conversation and this.
Speaker 4: New idea.
Speaker 2: Uh, it seems like it could help bring back balance
Speaker 2: in a sense of there's people concerned about AI taking
Speaker 2: their jobs. And look, automation has happened throughout history, renew technology, right.
Speaker 4: And yes it does create new jobs.
Speaker 2: But AI this this technology doesn't sleep, It continues to learn,
Speaker 2: and so far some people are concerned some jobs are
Speaker 2: going to become obsolete. However, as an individual, if I
Speaker 2: can take my knowledge and skill set and create an
Speaker 2: AI agent that can help me earn, so do you
Speaker 2: see the potential of this bringing a bit of balance
Speaker 2: back to the scale here?
Speaker 3: I think the answer is yes.
Speaker 5: You know, I think for every menial or routine or
Speaker 5: you know, dangerous task that humans have to do, you know,
Speaker 5: being able to have an AI agent do that, I
Speaker 5: think will start to create new problems that humans are
Speaker 5: probably better stared to solve. So it's still early, and
Speaker 5: you know, I think there's a lot to still learn
Speaker 5: and still experience. But you know what we're seeing here
Speaker 5: is for every job that gets displaced, I think there's
Speaker 5: going to be even more jobs that get created as
Speaker 5: a result of this reinvention and how things get done.
Speaker 5: There's also the element of AI is creating jobs just
Speaker 5: by being more efficient PAYMN, which is a company that
Speaker 5: we work with is an AI human platform that allows
Speaker 5: AI agents to pay humans for doing stuff work right, whatever,
Speaker 5: whatever that may be. Say you have a park that
Speaker 5: needs cleaning after a concert and you're trying to organize
Speaker 5: a bunch of people to kind of go and get there.
Speaker 5: You can either have a human do that, or maybe
Speaker 5: there's an AI agent that excels at doing exactly that
Speaker 5: and goes out and basically says, hey, like, I'm an
Speaker 5: AI agent, and if you pay me ten thousand dollars,
Speaker 5: I'll go find a lot of people on my own
Speaker 5: and pay them to go do this task right. So
Speaker 5: I think in worlds like you know, where where there's
Speaker 5: where there's still needs to be humans to gets have done,
Speaker 5: I think there absolutely will be agents will be much
Speaker 5: more efficient at creating or at least organizing and presenting
Speaker 5: jobs that are right people in a much more fluid
Speaker 5: and immediate way that I think it's going to be
Speaker 5: actually a really good catalyst.
Speaker 3: And we've had discussions.
Speaker 5: With job boards and you know, kind of these labor
Speaker 5: pools that are out there that you know, are very
Speaker 5: interested in AI bringing more jobs to these workers, whether
Speaker 5: they're gig workers or not. Because AI has a lot
Speaker 5: more intelligence and access to where these jobs are and
Speaker 5: has a lot more ability to kind of identify where
Speaker 5: we pay people for this job just because they have
Speaker 5: more information at their disposal, and as.
Speaker 2: You're saying that, I'm thinking of it also opens up
Speaker 2: our broader reach because let's say I'm in New Jersey
Speaker 2: and my job is local, right, it's central to where
Speaker 2: I live. But if I have certain knowledge and skills
Speaker 2: gets skill sets, it opens me up nationwide even globally
Speaker 2: to people who have a need based on what I
Speaker 2: can offer.
Speaker 3: We built a demo app at.
Speaker 5: CDP, SDK, dot x y Z that shows what an
Speaker 5: AI agent can do for training an mL model.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: So basically an agent can present hey, like, which of
Speaker 5: these is a dog? Right, and then you can basically
Speaker 5: find people on Twitter, have them present it, and then
Speaker 5: we're answering us series of questions just immediately payment.
Speaker 1: For the work.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: So to your point earlier, Yeah, I mean this is
Speaker 5: I think aagents are going to create a lot of
Speaker 5: opportunities or humans they're going to step in, or at
Speaker 5: least they're going to ask humans to get stuff done,
Speaker 5: and it's going to create a whole new demand for
Speaker 5: services that I don't think we've seen before at this
Speaker 5: scale and at this efficiency.
Speaker 1: And I think a big part of this is that
Speaker 1: crypto is just making the world smaller. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: think there's a world where, like it feels quaint now,
Speaker 1: but fifteen years ago, the financial market was only open
Speaker 1: from X time to why time, and it was set
Speaker 1: based on certain national jurisdictions. There's a version where like
Speaker 1: crypto is global, anyone can access to the blockchain is global,
Speaker 1: and they can interact with anyone in the world. I
Speaker 1: think that is absolutely making the world a smaller place
Speaker 1: than what existed before. And again, the Internet was already
Speaker 1: doing that, and you add crypto into that element, you
Speaker 1: add AI in to that element, and that's making this
Speaker 1: even smaller. I said, this is someone from New Jersey,
Speaker 1: you know, who is like you get to interact with
Speaker 1: anyone in the world. That's just a pretty powerful thing today.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's so fascinating and it opens up these secondary
Speaker 2: tertiary markets and so many opportunities to earn and crypto
Speaker 2: is a big part of it because you can at
Speaker 2: least trust right, you know, and there's no delays, is
Speaker 2: instant settlement, all these things so it's fascinating now speaking
Speaker 2: of earning it maybe early the answer this question, but
Speaker 2: my AI agent or my multiple AI agents earned five
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in the month of November. Tax implications, I'm
Speaker 2: sure the IRS has not come.
Speaker 4: Out anything as yet. What are you guys thinking about that?
Speaker 1: I think that we're very early in the stage for this,
Speaker 1: so can I can't speak to tax advice for this.
Speaker 1: I think I think it reminds me a lot of Crypto,
Speaker 1: where like there's no rules early on for like how
Speaker 1: tax obligations and defied pools and other things would work,
Speaker 1: and that's something that we have to go figure out
Speaker 1: together as a society. Some of the existing rules actually
Speaker 1: already worked for it, you know, maybe you're holding that agent,
Speaker 1: maybe you're directing that agent, and so maybe the existing
Speaker 1: rules are And in other cases we're probably gonna have
Speaker 1: to create brand new roles to think about these different cases.
Speaker 1: And I think that like I always, like in the
Speaker 1: early years of crypto, when like DeFi was first starting,
Speaker 1: I always thought about, like, hey, like will we be
Speaker 1: able to catch up quick enough to this? And I've
Speaker 1: actually been pretty excited about like how how many people
Speaker 1: in the world are starting to interact with this, to
Speaker 1: use this, and how even governments across the world are
Speaker 1: starting to catch up to it thinking about exactly how
Speaker 1: to thoughtfully put it into their systems.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, it's fascinating. It's like exciting, what's scary at
Speaker 2: the same time. Now, in regards to the AI agents, right,
Speaker 2: let's say I create something really great and it's doing well.
Speaker 2: Can I sell that AI agent in a white label
Speaker 2: or something along those lines if that makes sense to
Speaker 2: the open market.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think absolutely there's something to be said
Speaker 1: for your training the agent. You're getting it hooked up
Speaker 1: with a Twitter account with a following, maybe you're connecting
Speaker 1: it to an RC twenty token or some or NFT
Speaker 1: or anything else that's on chain, and you're able to
Speaker 1: then consider that like one unit and sell it. I
Speaker 1: think where it gets a little difficult is, first of all,
Speaker 1: we at coinbase and in the crypto industry, like we're
Speaker 1: focused on the crypto side of this equation, the on
Speaker 1: chain side of this equation. So in the case that
Speaker 1: like you're just simply training agent, giving it some prompts
Speaker 1: and then educating it, that may be less defensible. But
Speaker 1: then when you turn it into a social personality. When
Speaker 1: you add on chain assets that it owns, suddenly that's
Speaker 1: an entire package that actually cannot be as easily replicated.
Speaker 1: So my sense is like there's even more defensibility in
Speaker 1: terms of what the creator is creating. They have the
Speaker 1: ability to have all those tools together, and the AI
Speaker 1: agent only works because it's the AI personality that's tied
Speaker 1: to a Twitter handle, it's tied to an nft on
Speaker 1: chain or multiple NFTs on chain, and maybe it's a
Speaker 1: brand that's tied to it as well. So absolutely that
Speaker 1: can be sold and in a lot of ways, that
Speaker 1: is a busy business with his own set of assets.
Speaker 1: I think that I'd be more skeptical about just the
Speaker 1: AI agent with just some learning prompt that maybe that's
Speaker 1: the thing at least that's as defensible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it could be easily replicated, but I
Speaker 5: think the idea of an AI agent marketplace is definitely feasible,
Speaker 5: and we're seeing early signs of that. Provided that these
Speaker 5: agents either it took a very long time to create
Speaker 5: and it's really hard to replicate, or has the ability
Speaker 5: to do things or access data that nobody else has, right,
Speaker 5: I think we'll see it first.
Speaker 3: In generative art.
Speaker 5: I'm seeing a lot of models I think they call
Speaker 5: the checkpoint models or law models, where they've been trained
Speaker 5: to do something very very well.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: I can generate food really really well. I can generate
Speaker 5: you know the inside of you know, Tajmohal road very well, right,
Speaker 5: whatever that may be, I think I think that's going
Speaker 5: to represent the amount of effort that wanted to creating
Speaker 5: the agent, and.
Speaker 3: I think there's value that can be monetized.
Speaker 5: But to Nemil's point, yeah, I mean if they're an
Speaker 5: easy or agents that just kind of do things that
Speaker 5: chat ept you can do without any other kind of
Speaker 5: special sauce to it, I don't think that's going to
Speaker 5: be as exciting, and that'll apply be more of like
Speaker 5: hey look at me, look at me, and apply be
Speaker 5: something to have the kind of bear or buyer whoever
Speaker 5: does the marketplace, right. But imagine one that's just trained
Speaker 5: on a skill set that's like really really cool. I
Speaker 5: think you know there's an opportunity for to monetize that
Speaker 5: as well.
Speaker 4: Let's talk security.
Speaker 2: So you create the AI agent, you got the API
Speaker 2: into the NPC NPC wallet, what securities layers there aside
Speaker 2: from the seed phrases and so forth, because I don't
Speaker 2: know if hackers.
Speaker 4: Are going to use AI to hack AI.
Speaker 2: Right, this is like there's a whole new world, whole
Speaker 2: can of worms that is opening up here. What are
Speaker 2: you guys doing from a security standpoint?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you've chucked in the past to
Speaker 1: Philip Pardon are like head of security, and so we're
Speaker 1: based on the same finacial security promises, a coinbases like
Speaker 1: security infrastructure. And when I think the key thing I
Speaker 1: call out is is that we have two versions of
Speaker 1: our mpaz wots today. One version is where you have
Speaker 1: a single one on one key and that's very similar
Speaker 1: to the seed phrase that you mentioned. It's a seed phrase.
Speaker 1: If it's lost, anyone can access that wallet and they
Speaker 1: can take the funds. But there's also the two of
Speaker 1: two model, which is not one single seed phrase. There
Speaker 1: are two parties that both have to be able to
Speaker 1: agree together at the same moment in time, and if
Speaker 1: they do that, then those funds can be transferred, you
Speaker 1: can do an on chain action, et cetera. So we
Speaker 1: two of two model is what we recommend, especially if
Speaker 1: they're real funds on your assets and it still means
Speaker 1: you do have to critically secure your part of the shard.
Speaker 1: If you lose that, you lose the key that you
Speaker 1: use access coinbasapis. That absolutely means the funds can be
Speaker 1: at risk, But the idea is that it's not the
Speaker 1: same as having a single seed phrase that anyone can
Speaker 1: go attack and simply be able to move funds around.
Speaker 1: So what I would say is that we're in the
Speaker 1: early months or weeks of these trend of AI really
Speaker 1: connecting deeply into crypto, that I think that the secure
Speaker 1: he's going to get better and better, and that's one
Speaker 1: thing that we're working on is to have more and
Speaker 1: more complex forms of security so that if you have
Speaker 1: large amounts of funds here, you can get higher and
Speaker 1: higher guarantees in terms of what the security options that
Speaker 1: you have available to you are.
Speaker 5: You know, Tony and I recently had a conversation with
Speaker 5: a AI chat bot on exactly this topic. And one
Speaker 5: of the things that a lot of developers that we
Speaker 5: work with are scared of is, you know, these wallets
Speaker 5: just can't be traditional EOA wallets because AI can potentially
Speaker 5: outscore human beings.
Speaker 3: That's what we call them.
Speaker 5: NPC wallets, at least the ones that we're using. These
Speaker 5: wallets can't be a traditional EOA wallets that you know
Speaker 5: you've seen in the past, and they have to have
Speaker 5: a higher degree of sophistication. And if you in fact
Speaker 5: ask any kind of GPT bought or chat chat bot,
Speaker 5: it'll actually say, you know, it recommends multi party competition
Speaker 5: as a way to enhance security for AAI agents to
Speaker 5: have wallets that they can control. So look really early here,
Speaker 5: but I think the signals are according to the fact
Speaker 5: that security in fact has to be a lot more advanced.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's one of the reasons why we're leaning
Speaker 5: in so much into NBC.
Speaker 3: We're good at it.
Speaker 5: We believe that it represents one of the high stoves
Speaker 5: of security, especially for AI agents, and it really does
Speaker 5: give developers who are serious about the space the confidence
Speaker 5: leaning heavily without worrying about a single point of failure
Speaker 5: when it comes to traditional walls that you typically.
Speaker 2: Seem excuse my ignorance on this, these are new questions
Speaker 2: I'm asking you guys because I'm really curious about it. So, so,
Speaker 2: the wallet all good, but can the AI agent be
Speaker 2: attacked itself? And once again, may be too early, and
Speaker 2: I may be thinking too much Star Wars or I
Speaker 2: Robot or something, right, But I'm just curious that can
Speaker 2: someone use the AI to attack the agent itself and
Speaker 2: shut it down.
Speaker 1: So we use open AI in terms of the base
Speaker 1: agent that I talked about, we use open high behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, and so that's directly what you're interacting with.
Speaker 1: I think now I'm starting to speculate, and I think
Speaker 1: there are examples where you can talk to the agent,
Speaker 1: like convince them of something and have them, you know,
Speaker 1: react in a different way than maybe the creator was
Speaker 1: intending to. And absolutely that is a possibility of how
Speaker 1: you can do it. I'm not an expert in terms
Speaker 1: of like how the AI systems are built themselves, and
Speaker 1: so I can't speak to directly like you know, what
Speaker 1: types of things you can do beyond that, But it
Speaker 1: feels very obvious that you could tweet at them, like
Speaker 1: you've already seen this on Twitter, where there are examples
Speaker 1: of people saying, hey, like send funds to this address, right,
Speaker 1: and if the AI respects that, even though the creator
Speaker 1: may not have wanted them to, but they didn't program
Speaker 1: it in that way, I could absolutely see that happening,
Speaker 1: And I would just say is that like this is
Speaker 1: like we're seeing an industry and its infancy, like literally
Speaker 1: in the first walks that are happening. And so my
Speaker 1: sense is we're gonna see some pretty big hacks in
Speaker 1: the early months and weeks, and then slowly people are
Speaker 1: gonna learn and they're gonna hard in these They're going
Speaker 1: to make them more powerful, and we're going to figure
Speaker 1: out what are the really big and killer use cases
Speaker 1: of this at this stage. And then as the AI
Speaker 1: gets even better and better, and as the blockchain gets
Speaker 1: at lower costs, more performance, more people in the world
Speaker 1: have wallets, You're just going to see the amount of
Speaker 1: like types of use cases here just change and probably
Speaker 1: get more and more sophisticated.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And I definitely agree with you there in the.
Speaker 2: Baby face crawling not not walking yet right, we let
Speaker 2: alone running. Now, you guys mentioned the creator economy and
Speaker 2: developers as well. Are there any other industries you're noodling about,
Speaker 2: you know, in regards that you might start approaching them
Speaker 2: and saying, hey, check this out, this can help automate
Speaker 2: some things, open up revenue sources for you and so forth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan, do you want.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean, look, we're we're good at training our core business.
Speaker 5: So we're seeing a lot in terms of advanced streaming strategies,
Speaker 5: cross chaine straining strategy, trading strategies, liquidation warnings, you know,
Speaker 5: all the things that humans typically mess up or don't
Speaker 5: want to encounter.
Speaker 3: I think we're seeing a lot.
Speaker 5: You might call them DeFi but you know, I think
Speaker 5: it goes beyond defile when you start to build on
Speaker 5: channel ops chain. So I think trading is another really
Speaker 5: good example. Obviously the creator example that we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 5: which is great, but you know, I think we should
Speaker 5: understondate kind of the current places where a lot of
Speaker 5: AI agents are going to use. Example, customer service, you know,
Speaker 5: something that we've been talking about for a while, but
Speaker 5: imagine customer service and crypto together, right where it's more
Speaker 5: than just being able to understand your problem, but maybe
Speaker 5: it's also going to be good at solving them because
Speaker 5: of its ability to interconnect very complex systems a very
Speaker 5: different complex data sets. And I started to reason right,
Speaker 5: which is which is a recent development in.
Speaker 3: The AI world. Right, So you know, I'm not.
Speaker 5: Going to sit here and try to speculate all the
Speaker 5: like amazing things that because it kind of gets scary
Speaker 5: at some point, and I think we're getting close to
Speaker 5: the skynet terminators kind of. But I think the fact
Speaker 5: that there are immediate use cases in trading in you know,
Speaker 5: creator economy, uh and you know, even even service and support.
Speaker 5: I mean those are probably one of the biggest drivers
Speaker 5: of costs that companies incurred today. And that's another benefit
Speaker 5: I think AAI agents will bring to the table is
Speaker 5: being able to do a lot more.
Speaker 3: For a lot less.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, And I know, once again some of these
Speaker 2: questions were so early, and but I'm just fascinated to
Speaker 2: throw it out there.
Speaker 4: See what I can get from you guys.
Speaker 2: Are their plans as things progress to open up to
Speaker 2: other AI companies, So let's say Google's grock on Twitter,
Speaker 2: whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's a ton of different things that we're doing.
Speaker 1: So maybe I'll take you through a few of those.
Speaker 1: One is absolutely we want to work with all farms
Speaker 1: of air that are out there, not just this open
Speaker 1: AI alone, and so we're really excited about that. So
Speaker 1: stay tuned. We have done con coming up in Bangkok
Speaker 1: next week, and so we have a bunch of different
Speaker 1: announcements coming in there. There are other sets of things
Speaker 1: that we want to do is do more and more
Speaker 1: on chain interactions for these AI agents. So today you
Speaker 1: can use our APIs and you can call all on
Speaker 1: chain calls, but you have to know what you're asking for.
Speaker 1: In a future world, for example, instead of having to
Speaker 1: know that you have to call the dot transfer call
Speaker 1: on an r C twenty contract, the ideal thing in
Speaker 1: our API is is to just have that as a
Speaker 1: first class function. I want to do a transfer, I
Speaker 1: want to do a trade, I want to do a borrow,
Speaker 1: I want to do a lend. All of these are
Speaker 1: just first class functions in our API, and so that
Speaker 1: way the AI looks at that, it can read through
Speaker 1: all the different menu options that it has and it
Speaker 1: goes to town in terms of deciding how that comes together.
Speaker 1: So that's another thing that we're working on is we're
Speaker 1: unlocking basically more and more forms of these on chain actions.
Speaker 1: We have a fuel already, right, we have NFT minting,
Speaker 1: we have EC minting, we have transfers, but we want
Speaker 1: to add more and more into that set of actions
Speaker 1: that they can do that. The other big thing is
Speaker 1: just security, is that we have this two of two model.
Speaker 1: We want to make more and more complex multi SIGs
Speaker 1: so you can do that. We want to do an
Speaker 1: option like different options where the AI can have a
Speaker 1: human involved and improve everything, but also have examples where
Speaker 1: the AI doesn't need to do that. Maybe there's certain
Speaker 1: dollar values at which you do want a human involved
Speaker 1: to be able to say before it's allowed to transfer.
Speaker 1: So it's a world where like the customer is not
Speaker 1: an AI agent six months ago or a year ago
Speaker 1: for crypto, and now it is. And what are the
Speaker 1: use cases and needs that that AI agent has and
Speaker 1: how's that distinct from what existed before. That's really what
Speaker 1: we're spending our time thinking through.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: You know earlier and I forgot to ask a fall
Speaker 2: up question today, you mentioned that the AI agent can
Speaker 2: have its own NFTs and tokens.
Speaker 4: That fascinates me.
Speaker 2: So can it be just simply doing work and getting
Speaker 2: paid and it doesn't have to have a token, but
Speaker 2: if the person behind it can create those tokens and
Speaker 2: do some sort of ecosystem with that.
Speaker 1: So there are two things. Is that the agent can
Speaker 1: create a token of its own. So if I decided
Speaker 1: here's the name I want to name it. Here's the
Speaker 1: amount of the supply of the RC twenty token is
Speaker 1: an example that I want to launch. It can go
Speaker 1: ahead and ask for that token is created on chain
Speaker 1: and it has the ability to transfer like then it
Speaker 1: has its treasury, has the ability to transfer that, move
Speaker 1: that around wherever it wants. And again, the same thing
Speaker 1: you can do for an NFT. Let's say you wanted
Speaker 1: to create a fandom around something. You create five hundred
Speaker 1: variations of a certain token. Again with Jenai and all that,
Speaker 1: you can connect that up. You can create five hundred
Speaker 1: different images. You can you know, basically say like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want a version of CryptoPunks, but I want this theme.
Speaker 1: I want you to generate that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I want you to turn those into NFTs and have
Speaker 1: them and whoever reaches out to you and has the
Speaker 1: most you know, wittiest responses in this twenty four hour period,
Speaker 1: I want you to give those NFTs out to them
Speaker 1: as long as they give you, if they give you
Speaker 1: their you know, their on change. All of that is
Speaker 1: something now possible. And you know, those are just two
Speaker 1: things we do today. But if I compare that to
Speaker 1: the menu of things you can do on chain, there
Speaker 1: is so much more that's going to be possible, especially
Speaker 1: when you bring all those interaction effects among I launched
Speaker 1: the UFC twenty or launched the NFT. Now you can
Speaker 1: go use it in a game somewhere. You can use
Speaker 1: it with a different AI agent where if you have
Speaker 1: this NFT you can get access to certain content or
Speaker 1: unlock a different personality or any of these things. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm speculating on a lot of this, but it's like,
Speaker 1: I think we're just scratching the surface of what we
Speaker 1: see today. And so I think for builders, this is
Speaker 1: why it's so exciting, is that the lego blocks our
Speaker 1: start are there, but people are trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: like what are the end state of things that people
Speaker 1: are going to build with it, And that's why it's exciting.
Speaker 1: I think for all of us, it's like we have
Speaker 1: some popcorn. It's so exciting to have this front row
Speaker 1: seat to what people are doing with it.
Speaker 5: An AI agent with an NPC wallet, we'll be able
Speaker 5: to do anything a human can do with a wallet, better, faster,
Speaker 5: and more complex.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: So that's the kind of analog that I keep in mind,
Speaker 5: is a agent should be able to do exactly what I do.
Speaker 3: Is I want them into Natah, you can do that.
Speaker 5: I want to distribute into the tokens distributionment AAGE, you
Speaker 5: can do that, right, So, but do that at scale
Speaker 5: and do that instantaneously.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: Imagine Tony, if you know someone's listening to your podcasts
Speaker 5: and AIG determines is someone that you kind of want
Speaker 5: to retain or like engage with. You know, wouldn't be
Speaker 5: cool for the AGE to say, hey, like, thanks for
Speaker 5: listening in and here's an NFT for you, and you know,
Speaker 5: and this will give you some benefit in the future,
Speaker 5: right without you having to like respond to that a
Speaker 5: week later after someone comes to you with it, which
Speaker 5: is far too late than that in the moment, right that,
Speaker 5: I guess the new zero moment of truth, which is
Speaker 5: happening like now, right, and then rewarding somebody for that,
Speaker 5: at least recognizing someone that for that in a meaningful
Speaker 5: way that has value, right, So that just points it's
Speaker 5: actually like real like value, you know, digital assets of value, right,
Speaker 5: and that's what makes us all.
Speaker 2: Exp So Dan, I guess the next step will be
Speaker 2: you and I set up a call so we can
Speaker 2: create this thing for my wove viewers of listeners so.
Speaker 5: I think you got to give me all your raw
Speaker 5: footage for for your podcast and your transcripts, and we'll
Speaker 5: feed it through and and we'll have Lincoln put something
Speaker 5: together and then we'll call it to Tony Edwards bought
Speaker 5: or thet.
Speaker 2: To that point though, and I think I remember Lincoln
Speaker 2: mentioning this. You can plug into the YouTube API or
Speaker 2: maybe Facebook API and do this right.
Speaker 3: Anywhere there's an a p I.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Toty, just like, I think it'd be really fun
Speaker 1: as part of this podcast even to include a three
Speaker 1: minute section of you deploying something, and we're absolutely excited
Speaker 1: to help you do that. But it could be all
Speaker 1: the transcripts of all your interviews, right and we can
Speaker 1: tie that to an on chain n f T which
Speaker 1: had to you know, see twenty anything else. But I
Speaker 1: think there could be something really powerful there, and that
Speaker 1: would be a really fun demo for your for you know,
Speaker 1: for the viewers.
Speaker 5: Our partner or Hive is investing a lot in using
Speaker 5: AI to create voices and images of likeness, right digital twins.
Speaker 5: So you know, again, like I think we're already seeing
Speaker 5: a generated podcasts.
Speaker 3: With like really authentic voices, right O.
Speaker 5: You need this kind of video on top of that,
Speaker 5: and I mean, who knows there might be a Tony
Speaker 5: Edwards AI agent doing multiple interviews a day on specific topics.
Speaker 5: And that's something that we see a lot of potential
Speaker 5: in it, right, because it's more than just kind of
Speaker 5: going out there and pushing out content. It's very engaging
Speaker 5: and it's educating and there's so many ways you can
Speaker 5: go with this and you can't do that today because
Speaker 5: time is the resource that it's very limited for you, right.
Speaker 5: This unlocks that right and allows you to do a
Speaker 5: lot more with a lot less investment.
Speaker 3: Of your time and energy.
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, A question I'm gonna ask. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you guys can touch on this because it's
Speaker 2: a whole other can of worms and maybe we need
Speaker 2: like Paul Growall to come in. But an AI agent
Speaker 2: creating a token. We don't have full crypto legislation here
Speaker 2: in the United States. The s S you could say, hey,
Speaker 2: that's a security. I don't know if they will or
Speaker 2: you know, it's too early, but is that a concern?
Speaker 5: Election is only a few days away, right? But look,
Speaker 5: I mean, what do you think I don't think we
Speaker 5: know that details?
Speaker 1: What I would say, is that like in general, there's
Speaker 1: been uh, there's been a lot of like mean coins,
Speaker 1: and that's an example where like, I think that feels
Speaker 1: qualitially is different than other things. But I am not
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and we definitely want to know have those
Speaker 1: folks in the room to be able to uppine. I
Speaker 1: think what I just say about this election is like,
Speaker 1: we're excited that there there're folks on both sides of
Speaker 1: the aisle that care about crypto, and we think that
Speaker 1: we have to balance obviously, you know, consumer rights, and
Speaker 1: we have to balance the innovation that comes from crypto
Speaker 1: and the huge opportunities that ac crew in the US
Speaker 1: for being that that you know, the place where crypto
Speaker 1: where AI a lot of the investments and that are starting,
Speaker 1: and so we're really excited excited for that. But I
Speaker 1: think Paul Grahall would be absolutely great follow up episode
Speaker 1: on this.
Speaker 5: And I think Tony, you your question and I think
Speaker 5: a couple of questions before it kind of speaks to
Speaker 5: what I think is emerging truth in this space, which
Speaker 5: is humans probably still need to be.
Speaker 3: Involved at some point.
Speaker 5: A lot of advocates out there saying, ohthough 're like,
Speaker 5: you know, as will fully be autonomous. But you know,
Speaker 5: I think the more realistic reality is that humans will
Speaker 5: need to be present, not just in the beginning when
Speaker 5: you're creating the.
Speaker 3: Eye, but to manage and moderate and improve.
Speaker 5: So I think that's one of the things that will
Speaker 5: probably continue to see, is the importance of humans in
Speaker 5: the moop.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I once again, I know some of these
Speaker 2: questions they're too early. We're still too early to determine
Speaker 2: some of these things. But I'm fascinated by this, and
Speaker 2: like I said, I'm trying to build something and I'll
Speaker 2: probably have to have some onfline conversations with you guys,
Speaker 2: but this is amazing and any any thing else you
Speaker 2: guys want to highlight or you think you caught everything
Speaker 2: into conversation so far.
Speaker 5: I think for those going to deaf Con next week,
Speaker 5: we're hosting a series of events and we can send
Speaker 5: you to links that people want to join us. We're
Speaker 5: going to be showcasing I think five agents that are
Speaker 5: going to be doing things on crypto. It'd be fun
Speaker 5: stuff and they'll be kind of more serious stuff, but
Speaker 5: it's going to be a really cool moment for for
Speaker 5: AI and crypto. And you know, if if anyone's going
Speaker 5: to Bangkok this year for the conference, we'd love to
Speaker 5: invite them to, or at least your viewers to one
Speaker 5: of these events.
Speaker 2: Awesome, I'll put those links in the descriptions. Everyone check
Speaker 2: that out. No, mil Dan, thank you so much. This
Speaker 2: is exciting stuff and I'll have to have you either
Speaker 2: individually or both again, maybe in the next three to
Speaker 2: four months as we get further iterations.
Speaker 4: But thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3: No, thank you.
Speaker 5: It was fun and I can sense your enthusiasm and
Speaker 5: you know, if you can, sends ours and it's just
Speaker 5: great tend to be alive and and be in this
Speaker 5: space right There's so much happening out there and we
Speaker 5: just want we just want this to you have the
Speaker 5: world to know about it.