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Speaker 1: You know, there's a feeling you get, maybe when you're

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alone in a new city or camping just a little

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too far from the trail. It's not just nervousness. It's

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this I don't know, this primal, vibrating instinct that just

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says you are not the top of the food chain. Here.

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We spend so much of our modern lives under fluorescent lights,

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surrounded by data and concrete, and we convince ourselves we've

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mapped every corner of reality we have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we like to think we have, but deep down.

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Speaker 1: I think we actually crave the knowledge that we haven't.

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Speaker 2: It's the paradox of safety, isn't it. The safer our

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lives become the more we seek out that shadow side,

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just to feel something potent. Every single culture, no matter

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how isolated or how industrialized, keeps a catalog of things

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that go bump in the night. We need them, we

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absolutely do.

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Speaker 1: And that is exactly why I'm so thrilled to welcome

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you to another session of thrilling Threads.

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Speaker 2: Glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, and today we're going to pull on

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a thread that I think unravels the comfort of the

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known world. We're going on a global tour but.

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Speaker 2: Not the kind you find in a travel brochures.

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Speaker 1: Definitely not. We're bypassing the tourist traps of cryptozoology today.

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Speaker 2: Right, We're going off the beaten path. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, I love a good Bigfoot story as much as

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the next person. The Luckness Monster is a classic, but

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they're almost comforting at this point. They're familiar, they are

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they're on lunchboxes, they're mascots. Today, I want to go darker.

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I want to look at the urban legends in folklore

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from Africa, Japan, the Czech Republic, Hawaii, and the Americas

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that you probably haven't heard of.

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Speaker 2: Ones that still have teeth exactly. And that's the key distinction.

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I think when a legend gets too commercialized, it loses

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its sociological power. But the stories we're discussing today, from

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the swamps of Central Africa to the restrooms of South

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African schools, these are active sociological tools. They aren't just

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campfire stories, No, they're more. They are more warnings, survival mechanisms,

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and in some cases, manifestations of societal trauma.

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Speaker 1: It's a creature feature, but with a heavy dose of psychology.

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The creativity involved in some of these monsters is baffling,

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But what scares me is how specific they are to

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their environments. Yes, so let's start this tour in the wild.

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We're going to the American West, specifically Montana.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now, usually when I think of Montana, I'm thinking, you know, yellerstone,

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wide open plains, maybe a grizzly bear if.

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Speaker 2: I'm unlucky, sure, big sky country.

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Speaker 1: I am not thinking about deep sea horrors.

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Speaker 2: Well you should be if you're anywhere near Flathead Lake.

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It's the largest natural freshwater lake west of the Mississippi,

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and it hosts a legend that is uniquely.

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Speaker 1: Terrifying, the Flathead Lake Monster.

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Speaker 2: That's the one.

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Speaker 1: And we aren't talking about a glorified catfish here. The

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descriptions of this thing are bizarrely specific.

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Speaker 2: Saguarly are.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a creature that is serpentine massive. But

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and here's the kicker, it has antlers.

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Speaker 2: Antlers. That detail is what caught my attention immediately. It's

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just so strange. And if you look at the history,

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this isn't some modern fabrication. The Kutinye people, the indigenous

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inhabitants of that region, have stories of a giant creature

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in the lake that date back centuries.

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Speaker 1: So it's old, very old.

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Speaker 2: They speak of a great fish or a water spirit

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that could be fatal to those acrossed it.

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Speaker 1: But the crossover into modern record keeping is where it

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gets vivid. I was looking at the reports from eighteen

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eighty nine. There was a steamship, the US Grant, and

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it was carrying passengers. Okay, imagine the scene. It's the

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late nineteenth century. The water is glassy, maybe a little fog,

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and suddenly the captain and all the passengers they see

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a wake, but.

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Speaker 2: Not a boat way right, something else is moving in

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the water.

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Speaker 1: The accounts describe a log like object but moving against

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the current, and then the proximity reveals the horror. It's

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described as approaching the vessel and then just diving.

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Speaker 2: And that's not the only There are accounts of two, three,

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sometimes four humps moving through the water at once.

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Speaker 1: But the recurring detail in later sightings is always the antlers.

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Speaker 2: Which just makes zero biological sense for a.

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Speaker 1: Water animal, right, none the drag would be a nightmare.

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Why would a water monster have antlers?

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Speaker 2: This is where we have to look at it through

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a cultural lens. Yeah, for the people living in that region,

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both the Koton Eye and the later settlers. What's the

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ultimate symbol of.

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Speaker 1: The land, the elk or the deer, exactly, the kings.

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Speaker 2: Of the forest. So by giving the water monster antlers,

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the collective imagination is creating this hybrid. It's blending the

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known danger of the land with the unknown tear of

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the deep.

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Speaker 1: It creates a sort of apex of everything.

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Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. It's like the

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environment itself is conspiring against you. The water isn't just water,

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it is claimed the power of the forest too.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's weird though the locals don't seem to

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be terrified of it in a you know, let's evacuate

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kind of way.

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Speaker 2: No, it's quite the opposite.

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Speaker 1: They love it. There's this strange civic pride. Yeah we

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have a lake monster. What does your town have a gazebo?

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Speaker 2: It's identity building. Yeah. I mean, when you live in

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a rugged, vast landscape like Montana, nature is this dominant force.

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So having a monster in the lake it validates the

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wildness of the place. It validates the toughness of the

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people who live there. It's a way of saying we

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live on the edge of the unknown.

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Speaker 1: And it bonds the community.

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Speaker 2: It becomes a mascot of the wild.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a mascot. But if we hop across

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the ocean to Central Africa, the relationship with the wild changes.

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It stops being a mascot and starts being a murderer. Yes,

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we need to talk about the Congamato.

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Speaker 2: Now we are entering the realm of what is technically

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called cryptozoology, but the Conga motto stands out because of

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how consistent the descriptions are with well with paleontology.

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Speaker 1: So for those of us who skip dinosaur Week in

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second grade, break it down. What are we looking at?

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Speaker 2: We are looking at a pterosaur, a flying reptile from

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the Lake Cretaceous period. Leathery wings, a beak full of teeth,

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no feathers, a creature that should have been extinct for

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sixty five million years.

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Speaker 1: But in the swamps of Zambia, Angola and the Congo

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people swear it's still there.

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Speaker 2: And they don't describe it as a magical spirit. They

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describe it as an animal, very aggressive animal.

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Speaker 1: That's the distinction that chills me. The local reports and

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these go back to explorers in the nineteen twenties. Like

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Frank Mellon, they don't treat the congamatto as a ghost.

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It's a biological azard.

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Speaker 2: The name itself, Congamatto, roughly translates to breaker of boats.

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Speaker 1: That is a terrifying name, breaker of boats.

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Speaker 2: It implies a specific mechanical action. This creature dives from

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the sky or maybe rises from the water to capsize canoes.

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It attacks people who invade its territory.

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Speaker 1: Just imagine you're navigating a swamp. It's hot, but the

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insects are buzzing, visibility is low, You're worried about hippos,

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maybe crocodiles, all the known dangers, and then suddenly a

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leather winged dinosaur swoops down and just flips your canoe.

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It feels like time travel gone wrong.

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Speaker 2: There's a theory about cultural memory here that I find

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completely fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Walk me through that.

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Speaker 2: Well, the skeptics will say it's just misidentified storks or

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large bats. Okay, sure, But the cultural memory theories suggest

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that oral traditions are so robust in these regions that

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they have somehow preserved the memory of megafauna interaction from

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thousands of years ago, or that the discovery of fossils

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influenced the mythology so deeply that the creature became real

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in the cultural narrative.

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Speaker 1: And hear me out on this one. There's a dinosaur

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in the swamp?

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Speaker 2: Well or that that is the relic population theory. It's

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unlikely scientifically, but the fact that the story persists with

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such specific biological details, like the lack of feathers, it

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makes you wonder.

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Speaker 1: It makes nature feel actively malicious.

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Speaker 2: It does. It turns the landscape into a place where

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history hasn't finished.

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Speaker 1: Yet, which is actually a perfect segue back to the US,

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specifically the Great Basin region. Okay, we talked about a

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monster that breaks boats, but what about a monster that

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breaks your heart before where it kills you. I'm talking

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about the water babies.

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Speaker 2: Ah. Yes, this is a legend that appears in various

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Native American cultures, particularly the piutint Sha shown, and it is,

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in my opinion, one of the most psychologically cruel legends

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in existence.

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Speaker 1: It's the sound that's what gets me. The legend says,

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these spirits they inhabit deep, dangerous bodies of water, and

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to lure victims, they mimic the sound of a crying baby.

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Speaker 2: It's pure emotional manipulation. I am the spirit of dark

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and lonely water. It prays on empathy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about the evolutionary hardwiring there. If you

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hear a baby crying, especially if you're a parent or

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just a decent human being, you adrenaline spikes. You don't think,

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you act. You run toward the sound to help, and

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that is the trap.

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Speaker 2: You run toward the river bank, toward the deep water,

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searching for this distressed infant, and the closer you get,

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the more likely you are to fall in or to

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be pulled in.

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Speaker 1: By the spiritiz and compassion. But why why create a

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story where being a good person gets you killed?

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Speaker 2: Because the water doesn't care if you're a good person.

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This is a survival mechanism encoded in a narrative.

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Speaker 1: So it's a warning.

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Speaker 2: It's very practical warning. The Great Basin can be a

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harsh environment. Waterways are treacherous, flash floods, undertoes, hidden depths.

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How do you keep children away from the water? How

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do you keep adults vigilant?

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Speaker 1: You tell them that the water lies exactly.

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Speaker 2: You teach them that the river is a trickster. If

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you just said don't go near the river. It's deep.

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A curious child might ignore you. But if you say

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there is a hungry spirit there that sounds like a friend,

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you instill a deep, visceral caution. It teaches you to

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question your senses in a dangerous environment.

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Speaker 1: It's harsh, but I guess dead kids don't learn lessons.

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There's one born every minute who might be foolish enough

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to follow the sound. So the story, sort of in

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a dark way, calls the herd.

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Speaker 2: And it's worth noting that some traditions involve leaving tributes

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for the water babies, small offerings Oh really yeah, which

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shows it's not just a monster to be destroyed, it's

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a force to be appeased. It's about respect.

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Speaker 1: Respect seems to be the currency of survival in a

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lot of these stories. If you pay respect, you live.

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If you don't, you die. For the common thread, which

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brings us to a legend where respect is quite literally

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the only thing that can save your neck, We're heading

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to Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: Ah the night Marchers. Ok. Just the name sets a mood,

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The night Marchers. I've spoken to friends who grew up

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in Hawaii, and the shift in their tone when this

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topic comes up is palpable. This isn't a fun ghost story.

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This is serious. It is deeply serious, and it's rooted

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in the Kapu system, the ancient code of laws and

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regulations in Hawaii. The night Marchers are the spirits of

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ancient warriors and high ranking chiefs.

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Speaker 1: So set the scene for us. It's night, You're maybe

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near a sacred site or an old trail.

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Speaker 2: What happens? Usually it starts with sound, the rhythmic beating

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of pahu drums, the sound of a kansh blowing in

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the distance.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's serie.

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Speaker 2: And then the smell, a heavy scent of sulfur or

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burning torches.

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Speaker 1: And then you see them, rows of warriors floating a

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few inches off the ground, carrying torches, weapons, chanting. They

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aren't zombies stumbling around, no, not all. They are marching

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with purpose. They are processing to a battle, or to

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a sacred site, or guiding a chief to the afterlife.

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Speaker 2: And here is the danger. To look upon a high chief,

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even a dead one, was forbidden for commoners in ancient times.

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It was punishable by death. Wow, that law that cop

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who It transcends the grave. So if you look at

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the night marchers, you are breaking the law, and the

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penalty is death a deadly gaze.

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Speaker 1: So unlike the water babies who try to trick you,

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the night marchers are just enforcing the rules. But there

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is a loophole. And I love this because it feels

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so I don't know, purecratic. No, that's the wrong word.

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Speaker 2: It feels ritualistic, Yes, ritualistic. If you find yourself in

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the path of the march, you have one option. Must

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strip off your clothes to show you are unarmed and

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hiding nothing, and you must lie face down on the ground,

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prostrate yourself. Don't look up, don't look up, don't make

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a sound. You have to submit completely.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: Well, and if you were lucky, one of the marchers

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might recognize you as a descendant of their line and

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cry out no, which means mine. Oh wow, and they

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claim you and you are spared.

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Speaker 1: That is incredibly intense. It connects the living directly to

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their genealogy. Yeah, you better hope your great great grandfather

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likes you precisely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but think about the sociological function here. This legend

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enforces a profound reverence for the past. It literally forces

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the modern world to bow down to history. You cannot

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develop a condo on a night march or trail without

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inviting disaster. It keeps the history physical and present.

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Speaker 1: It's a check on modernity. You might have iPhones, but

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the chiefs are still.

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Speaker 2: In charge, a powerful one.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to pivot from the noble terror of

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Hawaiian warriors to something much grubbier, much more invasive. We're

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going to South Africa.

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Speaker 2: The legend of Pinky Pinky, or in a broader sense,

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the Tokolosha.

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Speaker 1: This one makes my skin crawl. The night marchers are scary,

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but they have a kind of dignity. The Tokolosha is

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just wrong.

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Speaker 2: It is pure nightmare fuel. The tokoloshi is typically described

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as a dwarf like, hairy creature, sometimes with a hole

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in its head, sometimes clutching a pebble that it swallows

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to become invisible, and where does live under the bed,

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in the ceiling, But specifically for the Pinky Pinky variant

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in the school restaurants.

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Speaker 1: The invasion of privacy is the central theme here, isn't

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it absolutely? And it targets girls, young girls. It's a predator.

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The stories say it grabs them, scratches them, or even

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drinks their blood.

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Speaker 2: This is where we have to put on our analyst

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hats and really look at the why why does a

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culture invent a toilet goblin that attacks girls?

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Speaker 1: It feels like a very dark way of policing behavior.

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Speaker 2: It is the source material suggests a strong link to

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the policing of female sexuality in the anxie that surround puberty.

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So if you create a monster that lurks in the bathroom,

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the one place where bodies are dealt with privately, you

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create a surveillance state in the child's mind.

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Speaker 1: It's a warning rit don't plan in the bathroom, don't

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explore your body, don't linger.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, it frames the changes of puberty and the private

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spaces of hygiene as inherently dangerous. But there's another layer

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to it. In a society where discussing sexual assault or

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abuse might be taboo, the tokolosha becomes a scapegoat.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: I mean if a child is hurt or traumatized or

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acting out in some way, it is sometimes easier for

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a conservative community to say the toklash did it? Then

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to confront a human predator or a complex social issue.

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Speaker 1: It displaces the blame onto a mythical creature. Yes, that

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is heartbreaking. It's a monster that allows people to avoid

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talking about the real monsters it is.

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Speaker 2: It's a displacement of blame. It keeps the community cohesive

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by externalizing the evil, but leaves the victims with a terrifying,

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supernatural explanation for their trauma.

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Speaker 1: It's easier to blame a goblin than an uncle. Yes, wow, Okay,

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let's shift gears. We've been talking about ancient spirits and

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traditional beliefs, but one of my favorite things about folklore

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is that it doesn't die when paved roads show up.

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Speaker 2: No, it just buys a car.

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Speaker 1: It just buys a car. The evolution of the urban

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legend is fascinating. We just pour old fears into new.

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Speaker 2: Vessels, and the vessel in this case is a red sedan.

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Speaker 1: We're going to Mexico for the legend of elcaro the

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les Brojas, the Car of the Witches.

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Speaker 2: This is a fantastic update of the classic siren archetype.

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Speaker 1: So the setup is this. It's late. You're a lonely

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guy walking down a dark street or you know, driving alone.

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You see a flashy red car and inside beautiful women

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but they aren't women. They're witches and they wave you over. Hey,

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come ride with us. And because you are a guy

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thinking with the wrong part of your brain, you get in.

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Speaker 2: And that is the last mistake you make. The legend says.

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The victims are found later, lifeless, often covered in strange

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symbols or scarring.

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Speaker 1: Sacrifice sacrificed. What strikes me is the car. Why are

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red car?

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Speaker 2: Well, think about what a car represents, especially in the

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mid to late twentieth century, mobility, freedom, modernity, sex, appeal.

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Speaker 1: It's the ultimate shiny object.

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Speaker 2: It is so by placing the witches inside it. The

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legend is saying, be careful of the allure of the

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modern world. It looks sexy, it looks fast, but the

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old evils are hiding inside it.

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Speaker 1: It connects back to Lashuapa and the Dominican Republic, right,

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the beautiful wild woman with her feet on backwards who

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lures men into the forest.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, Latchuafa lures you into the woods, the red car

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lures you into the back seat. The venue change is

347
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but the warning is the same.

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Speaker 1: Beauty can be a trap and desire can lead to death.

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Speaker 2: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's the juxtaposition that gets me. Witches feel like they

351
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belong in a hut with a cauldron. Putting them in

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a Honda Civic creates this untanny valley effect.

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Speaker 2: It suggests that technology doesn't protect you. You can have

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air conditioning and power steering and the devil can still

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get you.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of vehicles that should be safe, but aren't we

357
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need to talk about the Czech Republic this one. Honestly,

358
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this one is the scariest to me because it feels

359
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like it could be on the news tonight.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 1: The black Ambulance.

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Speaker 2: This legend strips away the supernatural entirely. There are no

363
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ghosts here, no magic.

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Speaker 1: The story emerged in the nineteen eighties and nineties. I

365
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think a black ambulance, sometimes a darker gas or Volga

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van in the older versions. It just cruises the streets.

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Speaker 2: And it kidnaps people, but not to sacrifice them to Satan.

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Speaker 1: No, it's purely capitalists. They are harvesting organs for the

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black market, and that's.

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Speaker 2: The black Ambulance legend. It's so chillingly plausible.

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Speaker 1: Why does the stick so hard in Eastern Europe? Do

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you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, context is everything? Think about the timeline, the fall

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of the Iron curtain, that transition from socialism to capitalism,

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the uncertainty of the healthcare systems.

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Speaker 1: Right, a lot of chaos, A lot of chaos.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people suddenly felt vulnerable. The state, which used to

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provide everything was crumbling or changing in ways they didn't understand.

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Speaker 1: So the ambulance, the universal symbol of help is coming,

380
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becomes the predator.

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Speaker 2: That is the horror. It's the inversion of trust. You

382
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are taught your whole life that if you are hurt,

383
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you go to the ambulance. This story says the ambulance

384
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is a thing that will hurt you. Wow. It reflects

385
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a deep societal anxiety about corruption, about faceless institutions, and

386
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the feeling that human bodies are just commodities to the powerful.

387
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Speaker 1: It's total conspiracy theory, fodder, shadowy backers, unknown authorities. It

388
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,319
feels very X files.

389
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Speaker 2: But relies on real fears. Human trafficking is real. Organ

390
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,920
trafficking is real. You can rationalize a way of flying

391
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,160
lizard and Zambia. You can say dinosaurs are extinct, but

392
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you cannot rationalize away the black market. That fear is

393
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grounded in reality.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes it linger. You look at an ambulance

395
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passing by, and for a blix second you think, is

396
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that a legit one? It plants a seed of distrust

397
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in the system.

398
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Speaker 2: Itself, which is arguably more damaging than a ghost story.

399
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A ghost story keeps you out of the woods. This

400
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,279
story keeps you away from society.

401
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,759
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move from the fear systems to the fear

402
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:12,000
of well eternal rejection. We're going to talk about the damned,

403
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,759
the things that don't belong anywhere.

404
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 2: Deliminal creatures. Yeah, one's stuck in between.

405
00:19:17,079 --> 00:19:21,039
Speaker 1: We're heading to Brazil. The legend of corporal Seko.

406
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,039
Speaker 2: Literally translated dried corpse.

407
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,440
Speaker 1: The backstory here is intense. We are talking about a

408
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,279
man who is so evil in life, cruel to his mother, violent,

409
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,880
just a truly bad seed that when he died, the

410
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:35,480
universe basically filed a restraining order against him.

411
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Speaker 2: It's a total cosmological rejection. God didn't want him in heaven.

412
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's standard for a bad guy, but.

413
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Speaker 2: The devil didn't want him in hell either.

414
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine being so toxic that Satan looks at

415
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,640
your resume and says, you know what, we're actually at

416
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,720
capacity right now? Try next door it's a.

417
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,799
Speaker 2: Profound statement on morality. It goes a step further. The

418
00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:55,519
earth itself rejected him, It spewed him back out. He

419
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couldn't decompose, so he's just.

420
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Speaker 1: There, a drying, shriveled husk. Thes are a nasty skin

421
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,119
like tree bark, just clinging to bones, and he haunts

422
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the roads, jumping on people, terrorizing the living, because he

423
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has no or else to go.

424
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Speaker 2: It reminds me of the Jianshi in China, the hopping vampires,

425
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,880
or even the European vampire myths. The undead are almost

426
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,720
always tragic figures in a way, they're denied the rest

427
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,200
of the grave.

428
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: What's the lesson here? Is it just be nice to

429
00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:24,279
your mom or is it deeper?

430
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,160
Speaker 2: I think it's a warning about the ultimate consequence of immorality.

431
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:31,279
Most religions promise some kind of destination, even if it's punishment.

432
00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:34,839
Hell is a place you belong there. Corporal Seiko has

433
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,839
no place. He is cosmic litter. It suggests that true

434
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,039
evil isn't punished with fire, it's punished with meaninglessness. You

435
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,200
just rot forever, unwonted.

436
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 1: Cosmic litter. That is a bleak image. But if we're

437
00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,440
talking about no good options. We have to talk about Japan.

438
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This is probably the most famous one on our list today,

439
00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:56,079
but we have to cover it because the interaction is

440
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,119
so unique. Yes'sak goinga the slit mouthed woman.

441
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 2: A classic Henrio, a vengeful spirit.

442
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: This feels like a movie scene every time I hear it.

443
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,759
It's urban, it's foggy, you're walking home. You see a woman.

444
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She's wearing a coat, long black hair, and she's covering

445
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her mouth, usually with a surgical mask, which given recent years,

446
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:16,839
makes this even creepier.

447
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,559
Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, And she approaches you and she asks a question,

448
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:24,279
Am I beautiful? Watasha kire?

449
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 1: Now in my hand, I'm thinking, okay, be polite, flatter her.

450
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,079
You'll be fine. So you say yes, And.

451
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Speaker 2: That's the first trap. If you say yes, she reaches

452
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,359
up and pulls down the mask, and she reveals that

453
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,440
her mouth has been slit from ear to ear, a gaping,

454
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bloody maw of teeth.

455
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Speaker 1: And then she asks how about now?

456
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Speaker 2: And here's where the game theory just completely falls apart.

457
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,839
Speaker 1: Right, So if I scream and say no, m what happens?

458
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Speaker 2: She kills you, usually with a large pair of scissors.

459
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She's hiding.

460
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Speaker 1: Okay, so I stick to my guns. I say, yes,

461
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you are still beautiful.

462
00:21:53,839 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 2: Then she respects your politeness, but she wants you to

463
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be like her. She takes the scissors and cuts your

464
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mouth from ear to ear. Now you are beautiful.

465
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Speaker 1: Too, So I die or I get mutilated? What am

466
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:07,200
I just bold? I was on the track to you.

467
00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:09,799
Speaker 2: Here's a spirit. She just reappears in front of you.

468
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:10,920
You cannot outrun her.

469
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: Why why design a legend where there is literally no

470
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:15,880
wing move.

471
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,799
Speaker 2: I think it analyzes the futility of social pressure. Japan

472
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,519
is a culture that places a high value on social harmony,

473
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:27,319
on politeness, on saving face. Okay, this legend takes that impulse,

474
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,440
the impulse to be polite to a stranger, and turns

475
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,400
it into a death sentence.

476
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: It's a trap of manners exactly.

477
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 2: You are trying to be agreeable, but your agreeableness is

478
00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:40,160
what destroys you. It's a manifestation of the anxiety that

479
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,519
you can do everything right socially and it can still

480
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:43,400
go horribly wrong.

481
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: I did read somewhere that there is a way out,

482
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,680
like you can confuse her.

483
00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 2: There are variations. Yes, some kids say if you say

484
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:52,359
you look average or so, so it confuses her long

485
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,240
enough for you to run. Or if you throw hard

486
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:55,559
candies at her, it distracts her.

487
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: Hard candies, Yeah.

488
00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: But those feel like playground add ons to give kids hope.

489
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,119
The core legend is about entrapment.

490
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,319
Speaker 1: Note to self, always carry hard candy just in case.

491
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: All right, we've arrived at our final stop, and we

492
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,079
saved this for last because, oh, the tone needs to

493
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,400
shift here. We've talked about monster, spirits and witches, yes,

494
00:23:16,519 --> 00:23:18,839
but this last one is about us. It's about the

495
00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:21,160
corruption of the human soul. Yes, we are in the

496
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,319
American Southwest talking about the skinwalkers.

497
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,039
Speaker 1: This is a topic we need to treat with immense gravity.

498
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:29,160
In Navajo culture, the ye nod Lushi is not a

499
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,680
campfire story, is not a Halloween costume. For many people,

500
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,599
it is a present, active and terrifying reality.

501
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,519
Speaker 2: The sources emphasize that people are afraid to even speak

502
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,880
the word. It's that voldemorre vibe. Speaking the name invites

503
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,480
the attention of the entity, and we.

504
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: Need to distinguish this immediately from the medicine man trope.

505
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,039
Traditional healers hatehi use their power for healing, for blessing

506
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,680
for balance. A skin walker is the antithesis of that.

507
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,519
It is a witch who has chosen to abuse that

508
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:00,400
power for evil. That's the key word chosen. This isn't

509
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,359
a curse you catch. This is a career path.

510
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:08,519
Speaker 2: It involves a voluntary, conscious choice to participate in unholy rituals.

511
00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:11,960
Usually the legends say that to become a skinwalker, you

512
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,720
must commit a transgression that shatters your humanity, like killing

513
00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:17,240
a close family member.

514
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

515
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,839
Speaker 2: You have to break the ultimate taboos to gain the power.

516
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: And the power is shape shifting, taking the form of

517
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,640
an animal, a coyote, a wolf, a bear to travel

518
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,720
fast and wreak havoc.

519
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,079
Speaker 2: But it's not just about turning into a wolf. It's

520
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:33,640
about the intent. They spread sickness, they cause accidents, they

521
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,920
create fear. They are agents of chaos in a community

522
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,720
that values balance or hoso.

523
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,039
Speaker 1: It's the ultimate detrial. The flathead monster is an animal.

524
00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:45,240
The tokelash is a goblin. The skin walker is your neighbor.

525
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,599
It's someone you might know who has secretly traded their

526
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,480
soul for power.

527
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,799
Speaker 2: That is the horror of the skinwalker. It proves that

528
00:24:51,839 --> 00:24:54,359
we don't fear the unknown as much as we fear

529
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,599
the corruption of the known. We fear the idea that

530
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,200
a human being can look at love, family and community

531
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,920
and say no, I want power instead.

532
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: Skin walkers prove we fear the corruption of the soul

533
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,079
that hits hard. It's not an external monster, it's an

534
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,160
internal failure.

535
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: It suggests that the scariest thing on earth isn't a

536
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,400
dinosaur or a ghost, it's a human being who has

537
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,480
lost their humanity.

538
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,079
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, let's take a breath. We have covered a

539
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:23,160
lot of ground today on thrilling threads.

540
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: It's been quite the journey.

541
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:28,039
Speaker 1: We started with antlered whales in Montana. We dodged dinosaurs

542
00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:31,279
in African swamps, got lured by crying water.

543
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: Spirits, bowed down to Hawaiian ghost warriors.

544
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: Checked under the bed for South African goblins, avoided red

545
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,160
cars and black ambulances, ran from slit mouthed women, and

546
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:42,279
stared into the void of the skin walker.

547
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: When you lay it all out like that, the map

548
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,160
of human fear is pretty crowded.

549
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,599
Speaker 1: It really is. But looking back at all of them,

550
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,960
what's the connective tissue for you? What ties them all together?

551
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: For me, it's the utility of the monster. We don't

552
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:56,640
just tell these stories to get a jump scare. We

553
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,359
tell them to make sense of a chaotic world. The

554
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,680
black ambula gives a face to the fear of a

555
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,000
corrupt system. Skin walkers give a face to the fear

556
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:09,480
of betrayal. Water babies give a face to the indifference

557
00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:10,039
of nature.

558
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: So we use monsters to draw boundaries. Don't go pass

559
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,799
this line, don't act this way, don't trust this person.

560
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:19,079
The monster is the boundary marker of human behavior.

561
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 2: Exactly. If you remove the monster, you remove the warning sign,

562
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,240
and then you're just walking blind into the dark.

563
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,559
Speaker 1: So here is where we turn it over to you,

564
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,920
the listener. We discussed monsters that enforce rules, explain dangers,

565
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:33,880
or just terrify us. But here's my question for you,

566
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,799
and I want you to really think about this. Okay,

567
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,599
do you believe these legends are purely invention or do

568
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,640
they survive because there is a grain of truth hidden

569
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,599
in them that we are too afraid to admit.

570
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,799
Speaker 2: That is the question. Is the story protecting us from

571
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:49,880
a metaphor or from something real?

572
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: And I want to know what is the local legend

573
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,039
in your hometown that everyone whispers about, but no one

574
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,440
dares to investigate. Every town has one. The house on

575
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,079
the hill, the bridge you don't cross.

576
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: At night, the old man who never sleeps.

577
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: Exactly we want to hear them. Leave a comment, send

578
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:09,279
us a message. Let's keep pulling on these threads together.

579
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,440
Thanks for joining us on thrilling threads.

580
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:14,039
Speaker 2: Stay safe out there and watch the shadows.