Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on de Bzy, Boston's
Speaker 1: news radio.
Speaker 2: Nicole Davis, Happy Valentine's Day. I hope that you've had
Speaker 2: a great one. There's still four hours left. You're going
Speaker 2: to get off work and be able to celebrate, and
Speaker 2: of course I will be here with all of you
Speaker 2: for the next four hours. I hope all of you
Speaker 2: will be here with me for the next four hours.
Speaker 2: You know who also going to be long, Rob Brooks.
Speaker 2: My name is Dan Ray. I'm the host of the show.
Speaker 2: Rob is the producer, and he's back in Broadcast Central headquarters.
Speaker 2: As we would say, can't even tell you where that is.
Speaker 2: It's a super secret. You can only know it if
Speaker 2: you're like the head of the CIA or Elon Musk
Speaker 2: one or the other, you will know where Rob is.
Speaker 2: Those are the only two people in the world that
Speaker 2: know where Rob Brooks is. We have a great show
Speaker 2: coming up tonight. We will begin at this hour with
Speaker 2: four very interesting guests. We're going to start off with
Speaker 2: my good friend Anthony Simarco. We're going to have some
Speaker 2: commentary on the big stop the coup demonstration in Boston
Speaker 2: today been at ten o'clock, going to talk about Valentine's
Speaker 2: Day a little bit more in depth with award winning
Speaker 2: photographer podcaster Carry Brett, who has had a very interesting career,
Speaker 2: not only as a celebrity photographer people like Bill Belichick,
Speaker 2: Conan O'Brien and others, but she's also a very interesting
Speaker 2: life experience which has some relevance to Valentine's Day, which
Speaker 2: is today and on this day. Her book her first book.
Speaker 2: She's done photography books before, but this is her first
Speaker 2: book called Shot at Love, a celebrity Photographer's unfiltered lens
Speaker 2: on dating and finding love. We will talk to her
Speaker 2: and we will have later on tonight Brushes, no, not
Speaker 2: brushes with celebrity Grinds of Gears, my second favorite twentieth
Speaker 2: Hour subject and first to start off tonight, one of
Speaker 2: my favorite guests. We haven't had him on in full
Speaker 2: meaning for an entire hour, and we've got have to
Speaker 2: do that fairly soon. Great local historian Anthony Somarco, who's
Speaker 2: going to explain to us the inception of Valentine's Day,
Speaker 2: which started, I guess Anthony rather close to Boston in
Speaker 2: the second largest city of New England and Worcester. How
Speaker 2: are you this evening? Happy Valentine's Day, Anthony.
Speaker 3: And same to you. How are you?
Speaker 2: We're doing just great. Let me tell you, I'm ready
Speaker 2: to go here four more hours and it's Saturday morning.
Speaker 2: So I guess Valentine's Day got it start. I didn't
Speaker 2: realize it got it start in Worcester.
Speaker 3: Well that's true. I mean there was a woman by
Speaker 3: the name of Esther Howland. She had been a graduate
Speaker 3: of Mount Holy Of College in eighteen forty seven. And
Speaker 3: the funny thing was her father was an importer of
Speaker 3: different things to its stationary store in Worcester. One of
Speaker 3: the things that she saw were English made Valentines. And
Speaker 3: because she was an enterprising young lady, it turned out
Speaker 3: that by the eighteen fifties she was making val times
Speaker 3: by hand. They were so beautifully done that they would
Speaker 3: take anywhere from one day to two to finish. And
Speaker 3: this is a woman that would revolutionize it.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow.
Speaker 3: And she would actually have a group of women that
Speaker 3: would work as an assembly line.
Speaker 2: Is there. Well, it's sort of like henry Ford before
Speaker 2: Henry Ford very much. Tell any record as to what
Speaker 2: she must have charged for these works of art. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know today, surprisingly.
Speaker 3: Today they are works and they're actually in the collection
Speaker 3: of Mount Holyo Archives. But at the time she was
Speaker 3: charging between fifty cents and a dollar. These were handmade,
Speaker 3: labor intensive valentines, but that.
Speaker 2: Would try, he said, in those days, that was some
Speaker 2: real money, Anthony. It was.
Speaker 3: There'd be about ten to fifteen dollars today, And by
Speaker 3: the eighteen sixties and eighteen seventies, this was a woman
Speaker 3: that was garnering one hundred thousand dollars a year year.
Speaker 3: So she wasn't just a Valentine card maker. But she
Speaker 3: even created a book called The Sentimental Valentine Writer for
Speaker 3: Ladies and Gentlemen. And what it was was that people
Speaker 3: who were tongue tied that could actually not imagine writing,
Speaker 3: you know, sentimental verse. She had a cheat sheet you
Speaker 3: could actually copy from it. So she created an empire
Speaker 3: that would be one of many. There were three different
Speaker 3: companies in Wooster at that time just making Valentines. So
Speaker 3: by the eighteen seventies her Valentine company was something that
Speaker 3: was probably the best known in the United States.
Speaker 2: So she was making one hundred thousand dollars either during
Speaker 2: or shortly after the Civil War. Long before Babe Ruth
Speaker 2: made one hundred thousand dollars and Ted Williams made one
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Well, I suppose if they were actually playing baseball for love,
Speaker 3: maybe they would have. This was a woman that knew
Speaker 3: what she was doing, and she had widows and spinsters
Speaker 3: and young women before they married, all working for her
Speaker 3: in a factory. And what she was doing in some
Speaker 3: ways was creating the greeting card industry. And during the
Speaker 3: twentieth century they had established an award called the Esther
Speaker 3: Howland Award for a greeting card Visionary and it's given
Speaker 3: in her honor every year. But when we think of
Speaker 3: a card in the eighteen forties and fifties and sixties,
Speaker 3: they were beautifully done. But what they have represented is
Speaker 3: in this day and age that over two hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty million Valentine's a cent worldwide for February fourteenth.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. I mean when you think back, when you
Speaker 2: do the research as you have done, and you realize
Speaker 2: that that's something that again is popular as Valentine's Day started. Now,
Speaker 2: was Valentine's Day in existence before she started making cards?
Speaker 2: Or did she bring Valentine's Day into existence? And again,
Speaker 2: you know me Anthony, I asked questions that I'm not
Speaker 2: sure that answer, So.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you said that. Well, in ancient Rome they
Speaker 3: had a festival called Lupa Carlia, and Lupa Carlia basically
Speaker 3: dealt with the loopa or the wolf that actually had
Speaker 3: suckled Robulus agreements the founders of Rome.
Speaker 2: It was a peg the emblem, as you know, that
Speaker 2: is the emblem of Boston Latin School.
Speaker 3: I know, yes, and I have one actually sitting in
Speaker 3: the parlor that we bought in Rome. But the idea
Speaker 3: was Claudius Gothagus, who was a pagan emperor of ancient Rome,
Speaker 3: became friendly with Saint Valentine. But Saint Valentine wanted to
Speaker 3: Christianize him, and the emperor had him beheaded on February
Speaker 3: fourteenth of two sixty nine AD. So you began to
Speaker 3: realize in some ways that the whole Saint Valentine was
Speaker 3: truly a saint of the church. He was somebody in
Speaker 3: some ways that was martyred because of his Christianity. So
Speaker 3: what they decided to do was to create a new
Speaker 3: festival on the same date as Lupecalia, and now they
Speaker 3: were honoring Saint Valentine not only the saint of courtly love,
Speaker 3: but Saint Valentine represents the saint of epilepsy, beekeepers, travelers,
Speaker 3: and fainting, and people began to realize even in ancient times,
Speaker 3: Saint Valentine was somebody who in many ways was quite
Speaker 3: well known. But it really wouldn't be until the early
Speaker 3: nineteenth century that we began to see England, especially with
Speaker 3: Cupid factories, as Charles Dickens would call them, of people
Speaker 3: working in an assembly line to create these beautiful Valentine's
Speaker 3: Day cards, and really the whole concept was it was
Speaker 3: something that would actually, in the twentieth century become probably
Speaker 3: one of the biggest of the holidays, and probably just
Speaker 3: secondary to Easter and Christmas.
Speaker 2: I can remember as being a little kid, you know,
Speaker 2: in the third grade, the second grade, and your parents
Speaker 2: would buy you a pack of these maybe fifty Valentine
Speaker 2: Day's card and you the nuns would make us write
Speaker 2: out Valentine's to all the kids in class, and you
Speaker 2: learned the codship.
Speaker 3: It was a big deal. But you know the odd
Speaker 3: thing is, you know, in my book on Valentine's Day,
Speaker 3: traditions involved, and I also talk about things like Salah's
Speaker 3: Valentine's Vinegar Valentine's and Crampus Valentine's as well as candy.
Speaker 3: And you know, when we think of Valentine's Day candy,
Speaker 3: it was Cadbury that created the heart shaped bonon bond
Speaker 3: box and it would later be carried further by Shrafts,
Speaker 3: which was at Sullivan Square in Childstown and even today
Speaker 3: Phillips Chocolates and Donchas there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no one who knows the traditions of Boston
Speaker 2: and the history of Boston better than my guest Anthony Simarco.
Speaker 2: Where how could folks go to your website and perhaps
Speaker 2: maybe pick up a couple of these books? Anthony, What's
Speaker 2: what's the easiest way for folks to track you down?
Speaker 2: Because I'll get twenty phone calls on Monday or Tuesday
Speaker 2: saying how do I give mister so Marco's books?
Speaker 3: And if you work, I mean they're available on Amazon
Speaker 3: dot com. That's probably the best. I don't have a website,
Speaker 3: but if they also go to Facebook they google my name.
Speaker 3: I always put down exactly what books I'm working on
Speaker 3: and where my elections are. So this has been a
Speaker 3: busy week for Valentine's Day tradition.
Speaker 2: Believe, but I'll bet the last name is spelled SA
Speaker 2: double M. Got to get the double M in there,
Speaker 2: ar CEO. Anthony's Marco Anthony. Always great to hear your voice.
Speaker 2: Always great to talk with you. I so enjoy talking
Speaker 2: with you. And we'll get you on somenight and maybe
Speaker 2: take some phone calls at some point in the not
Speaker 2: too just in the future. Fair enough, thanks Anthony. Right,
Speaker 2: we get back, going to talk about something called pig butchering.
Speaker 2: It's not what you think. It's a scam and it's something.
Speaker 2: It's an ugly scam. Not that there are any handsome scams.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk with Roberts Cissis Leano. He's the
Speaker 2: CEO of cybersecurity training company called protect Now. And this
Speaker 2: is serious. You need to listen to this because during
Speaker 2: the last five years, about seventy five billion dollars has
Speaker 2: been globally lost through pig butchering scams. We'll explain it
Speaker 2: all on the other side of the break here on
Speaker 2: nights side on Valentine's Day Night twenty twenty five. My
Speaker 2: name is Dan Ray. You were listening to w BZ
Speaker 2: Boston's news Radio ten thirty and your am dial coming
Speaker 2: right back after this quick break.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: Nightside Studios.
Speaker 2: I'm WBZ News Radio. We're with us is Robert Sciliano.
Speaker 2: He's the CEO of cybersecurity training company called protect Now. Robert,
Speaker 2: I had never heard of the phrase pig butchering, but
Speaker 2: having read up on a little bit, I understand why
Speaker 2: it's called pig butchering. How are you? How are you tonight?
Speaker 4: I'm good?
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So Robert, tell us about this. It says pig butchering
Speaker 2: scams are on the rise, and I think that you're
Speaker 2: suggesting that I don't know. In the last five years,
Speaker 2: one study says that seventy five billion dollars globally was
Speaker 2: lost through these scams. Tell us about it.
Speaker 4: So this is when. Okay, So I think everybody at
Speaker 4: this point gets a text message at least a couple
Speaker 4: of times a day, and that text might be like hello,
Speaker 4: or is this Robert? Or hey, I'm sorry I didn't
Speaker 4: call you earlier or something like that, like just some
Speaker 4: innocuous lame well few words. Yeah, like the whole idea
Speaker 4: behind these text messages that we get and First of all,
Speaker 4: these texts are coming from you know, robots, right. There
Speaker 4: isn't generally like a human actually sending that text. That's
Speaker 4: done via robo calling. And they just blasted out millions
Speaker 4: and millions of text messages every single day. And why
Speaker 4: the Federal Communications Commission hasn't shut them down? I don't know.
Speaker 4: Maybe they can't, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is my question, Robert, absolutely, because there have
Speaker 2: been politicians who have including some from Massachusetts, who have
Speaker 2: pledged that when I go to Washington, I will stop
Speaker 2: these phone calls and these text messages. But I interrupted you,
Speaker 2: and I didn't mean to. I think it's a great
Speaker 2: clear explanation. Continue please, yeah, so sorry.
Speaker 4: So all these text messages that we get on a
Speaker 4: regular basis, they are designed for one reason and one
Speaker 4: reason only to get us to respond, that's it. And
Speaker 4: so once we respond, who's this, I'm not sure who
Speaker 4: you're calling or it's Robert, you know, did you mean
Speaker 4: to call me? Like the whole idea is simply to
Speaker 4: get us to respond, and once we respond, then a
Speaker 4: human might engage from that point on on the other end.
Speaker 4: And what that means is like the idea behind the
Speaker 4: initial response is that they're they're seeking dialogue, they're seeking conversation, communication,
Speaker 4: they're seeking to make a connection of some kind of
Speaker 4: any kind, you know, and you know, and it does.
Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that like like everybody's going to respond
Speaker 4: because you know, maybe you don't respond. I definitely don't respond,
Speaker 4: like I understand what's happening here. But you have to understand,
Speaker 4: like there are a lot of people out there that
Speaker 4: are just lonely, you know, Like loneliness is a very
Speaker 4: real thing. It's a very unfortunate thing. And when people
Speaker 4: are lonely, like they're just craving communication, they're craving attention.
Speaker 2: And so the simple add human contact is what they're craving.
Speaker 4: It's it, you know, and that's where we're an interdependent
Speaker 4: species and we require each other. You know.
Speaker 2: So once they get you, once they get you, then
Speaker 2: they'll start to get you involved in something that might
Speaker 2: even initially get some money back for you, right they
Speaker 2: kind of hook you.
Speaker 4: So yeah, well eventually, you know, but they might spend
Speaker 4: weeks just talking, just texting, just communicating, just getting to
Speaker 4: know you more, just getting deeper and deeper, just creating
Speaker 4: a deeper and deeper human connection via text, you know,
Speaker 4: And so what happens when what happens when you get
Speaker 4: to know somebody, you begin to trust them, you know,
Speaker 4: and as you as you as you spend more time
Speaker 4: with somebody, And again this is just remotely it's via text,
Speaker 4: but this time that this person is spending with you
Speaker 4: is deepening the connection, the relationship.
Speaker 2: And so just to ask you one quick question, Okay,
Speaker 2: the people who are talking to you, a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff comes from offshore. How good is their English?
Speaker 2: Their their their colloquial English.
Speaker 4: Well, at this point, with the basics like Google Translate
Speaker 4: and AI, you know, and artificial intelligence, uh, in all
Speaker 4: the various large language models, all these various tools, Uh,
Speaker 4: it's no problem. You know, the scammer grammar is gone.
Speaker 4: Like there's there's no need for scammer grammar. Right, Okay,
Speaker 4: at this point they can communicate as effectively as you know,
Speaker 4: anybody because they're using robots to do it that are
Speaker 4: you know, eloquent and speak perfect English.
Speaker 2: And what they do and again just a little stretched
Speaker 2: on time here. So what they do is they will
Speaker 2: propose an investment of some sort and maybe you'll get
Speaker 2: some money back initially and you think that even makes
Speaker 2: you a little more confident, and then eventually they will
Speaker 2: get your information and empty your accounts, abuse your credit card,
Speaker 2: or maybe get you to get you to send them
Speaker 2: a good amount of money and you get ghosted.
Speaker 4: Right, they'll actually present you with links to actual live
Speaker 4: web sites that show tickers in crypto coin, and they
Speaker 4: show you know, the the gains and the money that
Speaker 4: can be made, and they show that like this is
Speaker 4: where I've made money. Like they'll they'll take it to
Speaker 4: what would be considered like a legitimate website where they've
Speaker 4: made investments in their money has just doubled and tripled,
Speaker 4: and they say, hey, you know, like you know, if
Speaker 4: you spend even only one hundred dollars, you could probably
Speaker 4: make one hundred and fifty like in the next five
Speaker 4: days and then make and they'll actually like invest one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty and then they'll get fifty back like
Speaker 4: they can cash out, and like, whoa, this is crazy,
Speaker 4: and so they'll it's it's it's it's just like a
Speaker 4: Ponzi scam, and before you know it, like that one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty turns into you know, twenty thousand, and
Speaker 4: over time they're investing, investing, investing, get a little bit back,
Speaker 4: Get a little bit back, get a little bit back.
Speaker 4: And what they're doing is they're they're fattening the victim up,
Speaker 4: like when you satten up a peg and ually you
Speaker 4: butcher rate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. You know, it's funny. I got to
Speaker 2: ask you a real quick question. If I can't here,
Speaker 2: so I get like everybody else, she gets scammed phone calls.
Speaker 2: So I get a phone call today. I can tell
Speaker 2: it's a delay. I can tell it's some form of
Speaker 2: a pool of people. In the background. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of noise, and they want to know, am I Am
Speaker 2: I happy with my Exfinity bill. Now obviously they're looking
Speaker 2: at me and say, oh, no, it's too much. But
Speaker 2: all I say is, yeah, I'm very happy, and they
Speaker 2: hang up. What is that scam they're going to try
Speaker 2: to have you? You know? And you can tell by
Speaker 2: the way this person's calling from somewhere I don't know,
Speaker 2: East Moldolvia. This is a real person. But they have
Speaker 2: an accent that like nothing I've ever heard. And they're
Speaker 2: making a thousand phone calls and if ten, if ten hit,
Speaker 2: they're ahead of the game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And they're looking for credit card information, they're looking
Speaker 4: for any type of account numbers, they're looking for social
Speaker 4: security numbers. They're looking to do anything and everything to
Speaker 4: get you to sign on the dotted line to provide
Speaker 4: any type of financial information or sensitive information that they
Speaker 4: can eventually turn into cash.
Speaker 2: Robert, you are one of the best cybersecurity people who
Speaker 2: I've ever spoken with, and I've spoken with a lot.
Speaker 2: I would love to get you to come back some
Speaker 2: night and spend an hour with my listeners as well.
Speaker 2: This segment is simply a quick interview segment. I'd love
Speaker 2: to get you to come back if that's possible. That
Speaker 2: possible anytime, buddy. Okay, Now, let me ask you this.
Speaker 2: How can folks get in touch with you? How can
Speaker 2: they get more information? You have a company called project Now.
Speaker 2: Is there a website that people could follow up?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's actually protect now project now. Excuse me now LLC?
Speaker 4: Yeah problem, Protect now LLC dot com. I'm actually in
Speaker 4: the Boston area, so protect NOWLLC dot com.
Speaker 2: Excellent. Excellent, that's even better, Robert, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: I will have my producer get in touch with your
Speaker 2: folks and let's let's do an hour in this somenight
Speaker 2: and really this is not enough time to get as
Speaker 2: much information out that we need to get out. And
Speaker 2: you do a great job. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Be safe, sir, you too.
Speaker 2: All right, we get back right after the news at
Speaker 2: the bottom of the hour, we're going to talk with
Speaker 2: an assistant professor of Technology and Operations at the Michigan
Speaker 2: University Ross Business School about Valentine Day's gift Valentine's Day
Speaker 2: gifts and again it comes down it's kind of like
Speaker 2: a scam. You was Sokker for the free gift with purchase.
Speaker 2: We'll explain right after the news break at the bottom
Speaker 2: of the hour.
Speaker 1: It's Night with Dan Ray on Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, following on our Valentine's Day scheme, we are delighted
Speaker 2: to introduce to Professor Lennart Bardman. He's a professor Technology
Speaker 2: and Operations at the University of Michigan Ross Business School.
Speaker 2: Professor Bartman, welcome to Nightsatt. How are you.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me Dan.
Speaker 5: I'm doing very well. It's a wonderful nay, so happy
Speaker 5: you tho to welcome.
Speaker 2: We were just talking with a cybersecurity expert. Sort of
Speaker 2: the theme that we have going tonight and not only
Speaker 2: is a Valentine's Day theme, but also how people have
Speaker 2: to be smart and protect themselves. And you asked the question,
Speaker 2: I think you even might have done a survey as
Speaker 2: to on customer loyalty. More than seventy percent of customers
Speaker 2: say that they would prefer to get a gift a
Speaker 2: free gift as opposed to a discount. Why is that
Speaker 2: comparison important? I think I know the answer, but I
Speaker 2: just want my audience to understand what we are actually
Speaker 2: discussing here.
Speaker 5: Yes, I didn't do that research myself, but that's a
Speaker 5: very striking number. Seventy percent is a vault. The reason
Speaker 5: for that mostly is that when you're given a free gift,
Speaker 5: you feel that you know you're getting something that you
Speaker 5: didn't have to pay anything for, So it's it's kind
Speaker 5: of that psychological benefit. And the benefit of that is
Speaker 5: that if you were to just get a discount, you'd
Speaker 5: feel like, Okay, I'm still getting what I'm getting, but
Speaker 5: I'm getting it at a slightly reduced price. It's nothing
Speaker 5: that extraordinary. So it's really the difficult the different way
Speaker 5: of feeling about that that that gift versus a discount.
Speaker 2: Important. Not all that significant, I think, is what you found.
Speaker 5: That's correct. Yes, So let you would imagine going to
Speaker 5: Sophora today on Valentine's Day and buying some perfume. Let's
Speaker 5: say that costs one hundred dollars, and then you get
Speaker 5: a ten dollar free lotion with it. But maybe you
Speaker 5: don't actually care about that ten dollar free lotion and
Speaker 5: you prefer to just have a ninety dollars perfume instead,
Speaker 5: because those ten dollars are saved and you can spend
Speaker 5: on something else. Normally, these free gifts are not the
Speaker 5: kind of samples. They're not really that much worth to
Speaker 5: the original item the church for buying. That's something that
Speaker 5: posts people don't see.
Speaker 2: So it's a psychological response as opposed to an intellectual response,
Speaker 2: is what I'm hearing you say that. If you think
Speaker 2: about it, you'll probably say the free gift's probably not
Speaker 2: going to be great, and I'd rather save my actual
Speaker 2: money in my pocket and get ten percent off. But
Speaker 2: people don't think that way. I think is so there's
Speaker 2: some psychology as well as economics involved here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's psychology, there's economics. There's also for the retailer. Actually,
Speaker 5: the reason they like these free gifts is that they
Speaker 5: can keep the perceived value of an item very high. So,
Speaker 5: if you see a perfume that costs one hundred dollars,
Speaker 5: you think that the quality is better than a perfume that, say,
Speaker 5: costs eighty dollars or ninety dollars. And so if you
Speaker 5: keep the price of the perfume at one hundred dollars
Speaker 5: and then give away a ten dollar free lotion or
Speaker 5: twenty dollars free ocean, let's say, it seems like that
Speaker 5: perfume still has that very high quality that you originally
Speaker 5: assumed when you saw that price, and so it's like
Speaker 5: a it's a good way for retailer to trick you
Speaker 5: a little bit into spending a little bit more than
Speaker 5: you might want to.
Speaker 4: Actually.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now this is interesting to me because at some
Speaker 2: point the retail industry must have figured this out, and
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that they probably figured it out with smart
Speaker 2: graduates of various business schools around the country that Harvard
Speaker 2: Business School or Warden or Sloan or Kellogg or Ross
Speaker 2: Correct or Ross.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. Our students are the ones that go into
Speaker 5: these businesses and they work in say the marketing or
Speaker 5: the operations departments and they try to see if they
Speaker 5: can create better deals that would work. And that's something
Speaker 5: that you know, we we partially teach, but we also
Speaker 5: try to research and see what what what what that's about.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that's that that's happens. Yeah, for sure, it's
Speaker 5: just a part of my research.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like.
Speaker 5: My research actually largely focuses on how can you use
Speaker 5: data to make better decisions? So how can we use
Speaker 5: the data if we collect about the customers through these
Speaker 5: retail stores and see if we can personalize the deals
Speaker 5: to the customer, or can we maybe personalize the price
Speaker 5: to the customer, or where we what we offer them
Speaker 5: in the assortment. And part of that, of course, can
Speaker 5: feel a little bit like we're trying to trick the customer.
Speaker 5: The part of that is also you're trying to give
Speaker 5: the customer what they would like to have, right, You're
Speaker 5: trying to show them what they might be interested in.
Speaker 5: It's a different way of viewing the problem. But that's
Speaker 5: that's kind of what my research focuses on.
Speaker 2: So now, is that why a lot of businesses are
Speaker 2: asking people for they'll ask questions about their privaces. Our
Speaker 2: businesses actually compile knowing information on individuals. Are they taking
Speaker 2: information from individuals and compiling sort of a profile at
Speaker 2: their customers.
Speaker 5: They're doing both, So this is actually really good question.
Speaker 5: So in most cases, businesses don't have enough data about
Speaker 5: a specific person to be able to say like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is what they really want. Most of what they
Speaker 5: can do is they can segment their customer base into say, okay,
Speaker 5: these are men from Boston that like a certain that
Speaker 5: like certain TVs, for example, and then we should offer
Speaker 5: them these particular items. And it's not really at the
Speaker 5: individual level yet. Most of the algorithms are not that
Speaker 5: good yet. But you know, with the generative AI that
Speaker 5: is being produced in the large language models that are
Speaker 5: being produced, more and more of the retail firms are
Speaker 5: collecting data that might be able to really offer you
Speaker 5: what they think is specifically what you would like to
Speaker 5: see on their website, and maybe that can seem as
Speaker 5: that they're trying to get you to buy a more item.
Speaker 5: So they can also be that, well, if you're looking
Speaker 5: for a dress, maybe we should just show you the
Speaker 5: dress that you would like to see, similar to like
Speaker 5: how Netflix shows you the movies you would like to watch.
Speaker 5: So there's a, there's kind of a two sided story
Speaker 5: to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this reminds me very much of political polling.
Speaker 2: In other words, they do polling obviously, and they have
Speaker 2: to get even to do the entire country. They get
Speaker 2: a thousand or twelve hundred or fifteen hundred people, a
Speaker 2: very small group of people. But if they balance it
Speaker 2: properly between men and women, people of all different backgrounds, younger, older,
Speaker 2: et cetera, they can get a pretty good idea of
Speaker 2: a of a large of a big election, even up
Speaker 2: to a presidential election. So you're right. If there's a
Speaker 2: product that they feel their target is twenty something men,
Speaker 2: they know that every twenty seven twenty something man may
Speaker 2: not buy that product, it may not be interested in
Speaker 2: that product, but a significant number of those twenty somethings
Speaker 2: will be. Same way with a politician, they'll say, well,
Speaker 2: we're going to appeal to twenty something men because this
Speaker 2: will be the candidate's position X on issues you know,
Speaker 2: ABC and D. They're not going to get every one
Speaker 2: of the votes, but they will know that that is
Speaker 2: a rich part of the electorate that they can that
Speaker 2: they can dig down on yes and help themselves an
Speaker 2: election day it's kind of a similar thing or my
Speaker 2: way off.
Speaker 5: No, it's a similar thing. You're trying to find the
Speaker 5: groups of people that would like certain things and show
Speaker 5: them right stuff, and you're just trying to only average,
Speaker 5: do a good job. Right as a retailer, you would
Speaker 5: like to sell your items, and you could ever know
Speaker 5: exactly who's going to buy a bit on average, you
Speaker 5: might be doing a good job. There's a little bit
Speaker 5: of a difference with poling, though, because in polling it
Speaker 5: is just expensive to get all the data right. You
Speaker 5: need to call the people, you need to maybe have
Speaker 5: surveys to figure that out. In the case of most
Speaker 5: of these retailers, what they have is they have some
Speaker 5: you know, loyalty program or a loyalty card or some
Speaker 5: credit card that you can get with them, and then
Speaker 5: because you sign up for that, they can just collect
Speaker 5: data about you, follow points and keep tending you the
Speaker 5: deals and promotions and things that they think might be
Speaker 5: useful to you. So instead of collecting data from a
Speaker 5: very small group, very detailed, what retailers tend to do
Speaker 5: is they tend to basically collect data about all their
Speaker 5: customers at a very broad level, and using that data
Speaker 5: they can then segment their customers and kind of figure
Speaker 5: out which customers they should target with certain items or
Speaker 5: certain prices or certain promotions.
Speaker 2: Great information, professor, this was very interesting. Again, I'm more
Speaker 2: of a political guy, and that's where we do a
Speaker 2: lot of politics here, and I'm always trying to find
Speaker 2: some similarities between whatever issue we're talking about, and you've
Speaker 2: made it very clear that there's some there's some some similarities,
Speaker 2: but also some distinctions. I think it'd be a great
Speaker 2: professor in class. Thank you so much for taking some time.
Speaker 2: Is there is there any website that that you could
Speaker 2: that you might like to refer my listeners to. Oftentimes
Speaker 2: when folks come on, they've written a book or they
Speaker 2: have a paper that they'd like people to see. Anything
Speaker 2: that we can we can help you, or or the
Speaker 2: business the Ross Business School raise their profile well, just.
Speaker 5: In general, if you're interested in learning more about what
Speaker 5: the business school community does. Right, there's nice academic journals
Speaker 5: about that, but that's a little bit too much to read.
Speaker 5: So instead, what we do as a say the school
Speaker 5: is it if you go to our website of the
Speaker 5: business there will be nice articles that are written by
Speaker 5: journalists about what we as professors have figured out in
Speaker 5: our research, and they're made in a way that they
Speaker 5: should be easy to understand, and anyone that works in
Speaker 5: in you know, the business world should be able to
Speaker 5: grasp some important insights from those articles. So it'd highly
Speaker 5: advise you to go to the Michigan Ross website and
Speaker 5: have a look at if there's anything that's useful for
Speaker 5: your job.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Professor Leonard Boardman, Thank you so much, professor.
Speaker 2: We'll talk again.
Speaker 5: Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2: Same right back at you as well. To you and yours.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Coming up on the other side, we're going
Speaker 2: to talk with a representative the National Association to Convenience
Speaker 2: Stores about the disappearance of the penny, and I suspect
Speaker 2: the impact of the disappearing penny might really have a
Speaker 2: tremendous impact on convenience stores who deal in cash on
Speaker 2: a basis of their transactions, a much higher basis of
Speaker 2: cash transactions at convenience stores than other stores. We'll explain
Speaker 2: when we come back. And we talked earlier this week
Speaker 2: about getting rid of the penny because it's too expensive
Speaker 2: to produce, and now we'll talk about the impact that
Speaker 2: we'll have on consumers. Back on night Side right after
Speaker 2: this break.
Speaker 1: Now, Dan Ray live from the Window World night Side
Speaker 1: Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: We talked earlier this week during the eight o'clock hour
Speaker 2: about the elimination of the sacred penny. Now, who will
Speaker 2: that impact? Jeff Leonard from the National Association of Convenience Stores,
Speaker 2: he's the vice president of Media and Strategic Communications, believes
Speaker 2: that it'll have probably a great impact on the group
Speaker 2: he represents convenience stores. Jeff Leonard, Welcome to Night's Side.
Speaker 2: Why will this have an impact more so on convenience stores?
Speaker 6: So there's been a lot of great reporting looking at
Speaker 6: you know, what does the cost of the penny and
Speaker 6: what does that do? What we can add context and
Speaker 6: is talking about what happens in stores. Convenience stores have
Speaker 6: about one hundred and fifty million transactions a day. Of
Speaker 6: that total, one third or fifty two million our cash.
Speaker 6: So we're looking at it from the time standpoint. How
Speaker 6: much time would you save if you're not counting out pennies?
Speaker 6: Because when you go to convenience stores, the first thing
Speaker 6: you want is convenience in and out really fast. And
Speaker 6: we're focused on can we make it a little faster,
Speaker 6: and that's where the elimination of penny comes in as
Speaker 6: an issue that we want to talk about.
Speaker 2: So you sounds to me like you think that might
Speaker 2: be a good idea.
Speaker 6: Well, it has to be something consumers want, and we
Speaker 6: have done some surveys. We did some surveys last week
Speaker 6: before President Trump's announcement. And when we initially asked customers
Speaker 6: or consumers and a national survey, would you like to
Speaker 6: get rid of the penny, just flat out that only
Speaker 6: about one third said yes, about thirty six percent. But
Speaker 6: then we started explaining to them in the survey it
Speaker 6: would save money, it would speed up transactions. This is
Speaker 6: what you don't have more pennies sitting.
Speaker 2: Around, Jeff. This is what we call push polling in politics.
Speaker 1: Right now.
Speaker 6: It wasn't It wasn't that. It was more to see
Speaker 6: what were the triggers not to use that. No, I
Speaker 6: know exactly what you're talking about, but I know, of
Speaker 6: course everything. Everything increased, and the winning message was pennies
Speaker 6: will save money for the government. The one that I
Speaker 6: thought would win would be the time, but that didn't.
Speaker 6: But they all bumped up and you were over fifty
Speaker 6: percent now with people saying yeah, sounds like a good idea,
Speaker 6: So we continue to look at the issue.
Speaker 2: So here's my question. Okay, when this first came out,
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, Okay, the ninety nine cent candy barge.
Speaker 2: Using this as a hypothetical, they'll charge us now a
Speaker 2: dollar for it, So no one, no prices will be
Speaker 2: rounded would be rounded down, They'll all be rounded up.
Speaker 2: I understand that. Okay, ninety nine cents for dollar, but
Speaker 2: when you add in sales tax. Here in Massachusetts, we're
Speaker 2: now starting to talk about taxing candy, which for a
Speaker 2: long time was not taxable, and with a six percent
Speaker 2: sales tax, boom, it's going to be a dollar six
Speaker 2: You're still gonna have pennies to deal with. You know what,
Speaker 2: when pennies are gone, and maybe they'll never be gone
Speaker 2: in our lifetime, how do you deal with that fractionalization.
Speaker 2: If it's below three cents, you'd round down, If it's
Speaker 2: about three cents, you round up.
Speaker 6: Well, Fortunately, we have some examples from Canada. Canada stop
Speaker 6: minting the penny in twenty twelve and stopped accepting pennies
Speaker 6: a year later. So I talked to some retailers and
Speaker 6: some customers in Canada. See how did they deal with it?
Speaker 6: How did it work? Basically, the if you pay by
Speaker 6: debit or credit card, no change. If you pay by cash,
Speaker 6: it's after tax, and if it's a one or two
Speaker 6: cents that you'd normally get back. Well, first off, twenty,
Speaker 6: if you look at one hundred possible transactions we get changed,
Speaker 6: twenty of them aren't changed. That'd be the five, ten, fifteen, twenty,
Speaker 6: et cetera. Forty of them would be rounded down and
Speaker 6: that would be the ones like eleven would go to ten,
Speaker 6: twelve go to eleven, et cetera, and that would save
Speaker 6: sixty cents. Sixty cents would be taken out of circulation,
Speaker 6: and then forty transactions would go up, and that would
Speaker 6: be the thirteen would go to fifteen, the fourteen would
Speaker 6: go to fifteen, et cetera, and that would save another
Speaker 6: one hundred and forty pennies. Now, the first question I
Speaker 6: got was won't this require a lot more nickels? Won't
Speaker 6: this require a lot more dimes? And in looking at
Speaker 6: the math, believe it or not, there would be no
Speaker 6: extra nickels used on average. There would be no extra
Speaker 6: dimes used on average. Two hundred pennies would be taken
Speaker 6: out of circulation for every hundred transactions, but eight quarters
Speaker 6: would be added. So there's the two dollars versus two dollars.
Speaker 6: So if you don't like pennies, that's good. If you
Speaker 6: like quarters, whether it's for laundry or whatever, that's good.
Speaker 2: What did people in Canada do when they said we're
Speaker 2: not going to we're not going to any longer except pennies.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people had their penny collections
Speaker 2: at that point. They just be stuck with them.
Speaker 6: Correct, Well, there's a gary you can trade. I mean
Speaker 6: you can go to one of those machines where you
Speaker 6: get redemption.
Speaker 3: I heard an interesting phrase.
Speaker 6: Somebody said I expected there to be more emotional payload
Speaker 6: with this, and he said it was surprisingly okay, it
Speaker 6: just was yeah, we really didn't notice. And now I
Speaker 6: don't have that jar at any sitting around.
Speaker 2: You know, you know who loses out of this as well,
Speaker 2: and we probably have forgotten about him, Abe Lincoln.
Speaker 6: He does, and anybody that knows nineteen oh nine SVDB
Speaker 6: coin collectors, etc. You know, there's also round up programs
Speaker 6: things like that, where people may may stick a couple
Speaker 6: of pennies in a collection jar or something like that.
Speaker 6: All kinds of things will have to change. But yeah,
Speaker 6: things happen, They certainly do.
Speaker 2: Look, I really enjoyed the conversation, Jeff. If someone wants
Speaker 2: to get more information about your company or your your organization,
Speaker 2: how can they find you?
Speaker 6: Well, National Association of Convenience Stores conveniences in our name,
Speaker 6: So we made that our website convenience dot org, and
Speaker 6: you can find me on the website if you want
Speaker 6: to talk, whether you want to tell me I'm right
Speaker 6: or tell me I'm wrong, or just give me new
Speaker 6: insights as we go down this path.
Speaker 2: Sounds great, Jeff Leonard spelled e n A a ar
Speaker 2: D l E n ar D National Association of Convenience So,
Speaker 2: as vice president of Media and Strategic Communications, you did
Speaker 2: a great job for us. You made a complex problem
Speaker 2: easily easy to understand, and I thank you for that.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Jeff, thank you.
Speaker 2: All Right, we'll get back. We're going to talk about
Speaker 2: a demonstration in Boston today. I suspect we're going to
Speaker 2: be seeing more of these in the weeks and months ahead,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, and we're going to take a little
Speaker 2: bit of a deep dive into the demonstration and who
Speaker 2: was involved and what they were looking for and maybe
Speaker 2: what their actual purpose is. Stay with us on Nightside.
Speaker 2: We'll be back right after the nine o'clock news