Speaker 1: On a chilling evening in December nineteen eighty nine, a
Speaker 1: shadow loomed over Montreal's Nicole's Polytechnique. A sinister figure unleashed
Speaker 1: a horrifying act of violence, specifically targeting female students. The
Speaker 1: echoes of that night still resonate as a somber reminder
Speaker 1: of the darkness that can descend upon us the most unsuspecting.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, my name's Ben, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Listeners just question that much.
Speaker 2: Tis the season? It's officially December.
Speaker 1: It is. It is December fifth.
Speaker 2: We posted a pretty funny meme that we put together
Speaker 2: on Instagram and Facebook today it uh, do you want
Speaker 2: do you want to recite it? Do you remember it?
Speaker 1: I do remember it, but no, not verbatim. It's your more,
Speaker 1: it's more your things, so fin.
Speaker 2: Well, I believe off the top of my head, I
Speaker 2: believe it said something like, uh, it's the season for
Speaker 2: true crime documentaries or Christmas movies. Either way we're slaying
Speaker 2: or we're slaying like Santa's.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was funny, but I was just like, who Santa?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Santa looks a little more bid in that post.
Speaker 2: Married so you're doing today's episode.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a bit of a doozy, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie, but a Canadian one, right, it is. And
Speaker 1: it's been on my list for some time and we
Speaker 1: or I very strategically chose today to present it. Does
Speaker 1: it and you'll know why soon enough.
Speaker 2: Does it fit in with like Christmas?
Speaker 1: Then no, it's just the anniversary Okay, anniversary.
Speaker 2: Date, gotcha, because we're all trying to do like a
Speaker 2: bunch of Christmas stuff lately.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we have a vlog miss going on on
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. It's wild.
Speaker 2: We do every day of December. We're posting a vlog.
Speaker 2: So we put our decorations up in the tiny home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you did as a surprise. So awesome. It
Speaker 1: looks so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so our tiny home is all Christmas decorated up.
Speaker 2: We've logged that and we do you want to tell
Speaker 2: them the other blog we did yesterday?
Speaker 1: Man, what a shit show that was. We did a
Speaker 1: chicken photo shoot. So it consisted of us taking an individual,
Speaker 1: individual shot of each chicken with a little tiny Santa
Speaker 1: hat on their head.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so each one of our chickens got a little
Speaker 2: portrait with a Santa.
Speaker 1: Hat, and that was it was about one hundred times
Speaker 1: more work than I think either of us anticipated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're probably picturing this right now as you're
Speaker 2: listening to this, just how you think it probably went.
Speaker 2: That's probably exactly what happened. Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was fun though, and the outcome was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got some good photos that we're going to
Speaker 2: be putting up on our socials too, So if you
Speaker 2: really want to check them out, you can go ahead
Speaker 2: and check them out with the.
Speaker 1: Links in the description there you go.
Speaker 2: Same with the YouTube. You can go check out the
Speaker 2: vologmas there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's lots more to come.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's also you can go ahead and check
Speaker 2: out Patreon too if you if you want description link
Speaker 2: is there below. Yeah my sentence, sorry, I stumbled that.
Speaker 1: Well, we already have some of the chicken photos up
Speaker 1: on Patreons.
Speaker 2: We do, we do.
Speaker 1: They got a pre look, they always get. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: would it be called first first on the.
Speaker 2: Scene, first on the now, I mean, if you want
Speaker 2: to say that.
Speaker 1: Again, it's their get. I don't even know shit, this
Speaker 1: is going to be get.
Speaker 2: A sneak peek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking something else but oh man, oh man.
Speaker 2: First responder. I don't know, it's kind of first on the.
Speaker 1: Scene, first look, I think, first look. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we do have one Patreon, one patronaton oh a patron,
Speaker 1: and I just wrote it on my notes rather than
Speaker 1: sending it to you, and we have our newest and greatest. No,
Speaker 1: they're all great, Dark Angel Dark.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Appreciate you and everyone else out there,
Speaker 2: not just our patrons just listening right now. You're awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Everyone's freaking awesometis the season to be awesome?
Speaker 2: Tis the season for apparently a Canadian massacre? If?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so today we're going to be chatting about the Ecole,
Speaker 1: which is school in French poly technique massacre.
Speaker 2: What does polytechnique mean?
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that's also French, but basically
Speaker 1: it's an engineering school. Okay, yeah, so over in Montreal, gotcha. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna be chatting about this, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's I just want to say, I guess a little
Speaker 1: warning is it is a school shooting, which is very
Speaker 1: hard to talk about, and it's it's an issue that
Speaker 1: still is an issue today. So just to kind of
Speaker 1: trigger warning there that we will be talking about that,
Speaker 1: which it sucks that these kind of things happen big time.
Speaker 2: M hmm, definitely does.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so if that's if that's going to be
Speaker 1: triggering to you, then then we totally understand if you
Speaker 1: skipped this.
Speaker 2: Episode fair enough, Well, thank you for the heads up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so here we go. So Gamille Garby, Oh,
Speaker 1: I have one more thing to say. This is Quebec.
Speaker 1: I'm off French, so my pronunciation might be a little off,
Speaker 1: but you know what, We're just here doing our best, okay. So.
Speaker 1: Gamille Garby was born on October twenty sixth, nineteen sixty four,
Speaker 1: in Montreal, Quebec, to Rashad LEAs Garbi and Monique lepine So.
Speaker 1: Rashad was an Algerian immigrant who worked as a mutual
Speaker 1: fund salesman. Monique was a former Catholic nun but had
Speaker 1: turned to nursing to support herself when she had left
Speaker 1: the convent. So after that she met and married Washad,
Speaker 1: who was a nonpracticing Muslim, and raised her children or
Speaker 1: their children as Catholics. But she always said that Camille
Speaker 1: had been born an atheist, which is a person who
Speaker 1: disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods,
Speaker 1: and there was nothing she could do to change that.
Speaker 1: Gamille agreed, but a lack of faith was only one
Speaker 1: of the many things that he lacked growing up. Because
Speaker 1: of his father's job, the family they did move around
Speaker 1: a lot, but some of the places like Costa Rica
Speaker 1: and Puerto Rica, I feel like, are pretty cool places
Speaker 1: to live. I wouldn't mind living there.
Speaker 2: They're definitely warmer than somewhere like Quebec.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they lived there places like that for a
Speaker 1: few years before they moved back to Montreal in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty eight, just before the stock market crashed and the
Speaker 1: family unfortunately suffered a great loss. Things had already been
Speaker 1: difficult for them, maybe not necessarily financially, but within the home.
Speaker 1: The father was a strict disciplinarian, and he often punished
Speaker 1: both Monique and their children, So it was Camille and Naudia,
Speaker 1: which was Gamille's sister. With everything that came with suddenly
Speaker 1: losing all their money, he seemed like he became even worse.
Speaker 1: I mean probably the stress of it, right, probably, which
Speaker 1: is no excuse. Though he'd always treated Monique like she
Speaker 1: was his servant, but now she had to act like
Speaker 1: his secretary as well. He'd have her typing out all
Speaker 1: of his documents, and he watched as she did this
Speaker 1: over her shoulder, and anytime she would make any sort
Speaker 1: of mistake like a typing air, he hit her.
Speaker 2: Jesus, yeah, wow.
Speaker 1: No kidding, Like, could you imagine that would make me
Speaker 1: make way more mistake?
Speaker 2: No kidding.
Speaker 1: I can't handle when I'm being watched while I'm working,
Speaker 1: as you know, yeah, I'd probably just say you back.
Speaker 1: So when the children were crying for her, he'd make
Speaker 1: her keep working and tell his family that she would
Speaker 1: only be spoiling the children if she paid them too
Speaker 1: much attention. So basically just like just don't even think
Speaker 1: about their needs kind of thing, which is really disturbing.
Speaker 1: Act that is, this was especially true if Money tried
Speaker 1: to show any love and affection to a meal, though,
Speaker 1: because the father believed that that was the worst thing
Speaker 1: that Moneique could do for their son, and he got
Speaker 1: violent ever he saw it happening. Basically like, don't show
Speaker 1: love and affection, especially to a boy. I guess, right,
Speaker 1: what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: I don't know, Oh, I don't know. Finally, in nineteen seventy,
Speaker 1: when Rashad ended up hitting a meal in the face
Speaker 1: so hard that it left a bruise that lasted more
Speaker 1: than a week. Monique pulled the plug. She packed up
Speaker 1: the children and herself up and filed for a legal separation.
Speaker 2: Good for her, that's not an easy thing to oh,
Speaker 2: so good on her for having the strength to do that.
Speaker 1: No, and I feel like, I mean, it's never an
Speaker 1: easy thing to do, but I feel like back then
Speaker 1: it might have even been harder.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think so too, because the view on everyone else, like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like you don't leave a relationship, like
Speaker 2: if you do, you're the problem, Like all these fucked
Speaker 2: up things that have gone through like several decades of
Speaker 2: like marital I don't know the words, but like marital
Speaker 2: point of view that anyone had in different generations.
Speaker 1: Well, and then she also had a religious background, which
Speaker 1: adds a whole other level.
Speaker 2: It certainly does a lot of people in the religious
Speaker 2: world if they do leave a relationship like that, they'll
Speaker 2: get ostracized not only other family members, but like members
Speaker 2: of their commune in the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was like her. The family would turn their back,
Speaker 1: could turn their back. I think they did. Actually, I
Speaker 1: feel like I read something about that completely turned her
Speaker 1: their back on her.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised. Seemed like that was way too common.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes my heart hurt quite a bit. Actually, Okay,
Speaker 1: where were we here? And I should say too, like
Speaker 1: we are chatting a little bit more about a problem
Speaker 1: person in this episode, but sometimes that just happens, right, Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: So she was left with the house which Rashad was
Speaker 1: supposed to be making the mortgage payments on, and also
Speaker 1: had full custody of the children. She had full custody
Speaker 1: of the children. Rashad had weekly supervised visitation rights, but
Speaker 1: they only lasted a few weeks after the legal separation
Speaker 1: became final. He I think he went about not even
Speaker 1: really caring to see them. He also stopped paying the
Speaker 1: mortgage and only made child support payments twice before he
Speaker 1: cut all contact with his family. Gamille never heard from
Speaker 1: or spoke to his father again, so basically he just
Speaker 1: was done with them.
Speaker 2: I mean that might have been a little bit of
Speaker 2: a silver lining if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, if he was a complete dang.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if he's as abusive and controlling as he sounds,
Speaker 2: they might just well have been better off without someone
Speaker 2: like that in their life.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they couldn't even be like alone with him.
Speaker 1: So what does that say.
Speaker 2: That's that's brutal, the scary as fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's your dad. That's someone that you're supposed
Speaker 1: to look up to and think is this powerful man
Speaker 1: and like I want to be like my dad kind
Speaker 1: of thing, right, And it's just like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And it's so unfortunate that so many people these days
Speaker 2: don't have like a paternal or maternal figure in their
Speaker 2: life they can look up to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this was also pretty hard for Monique because
Speaker 1: suddenly she found herself without a home, she had no
Speaker 1: money coming in and two children to look after. She
Speaker 1: went back to nursing, and when the opportunity came up
Speaker 1: for her to take some courses and advance her career,
Speaker 1: she jumped on it, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but that also.
Speaker 1: Left things a bit tricky at home. She had to
Speaker 1: work during the day and then do the courses at night. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So at the time, Gamille was only about nine years old.
Speaker 1: Monique sent both Gamille and Naudia to live with other
Speaker 1: families during the week and had them come home on
Speaker 1: the weekend, worried about what was going on in her
Speaker 1: children's lives when she wasn't there. She also contacted a
Speaker 1: psychiatrist to do an evaluation on them to see if
Speaker 1: they needed any extra support. Gamille had always been a quiet,
Speaker 1: somewhat withdrawn child, but Naudia was loud, outspoken, and she
Speaker 1: didn't like people having authority over her. The psychiatgiy psychiatrists
Speaker 1: said that Gamille was fine and recommended therapy for Naudia, though,
Speaker 1: so that she would kind of start listening to make
Speaker 1: Monique a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Okay, makes sense, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But perhaps if that psychiatrist had been able to see
Speaker 1: into the future, they would have known just how off
Speaker 1: the mark they'd been with emil uh In nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: Monique was finally done with her studies. She became the
Speaker 1: director of nursing at Montreal Hospital, which is pretty cool, kidding,
Speaker 1: and was able to buy a nice, middle class home
Speaker 1: for her and her children to live in. But some
Speaker 1: of the damage was already done. Gamille academically did well
Speaker 1: in school, but he had a challenge with making friends.
Speaker 1: He didn't have any friends. Instead, he seemed to struggle
Speaker 1: with getting on with others, and the other students bullied him.
Speaker 1: They called him an Arab because of his name, which
Speaker 1: may have been one reason why he went about changing
Speaker 1: his name when he was fourteen years old, or it
Speaker 1: may have also been because he had this hatred towards
Speaker 1: his father and he didn't want to be associated with
Speaker 1: him anymore.
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting.
Speaker 1: So it was after that that Gamille Garby became Mark Lapine,
Speaker 1: a name that would become part of a Canadian history
Speaker 1: in the worst of ways, his dark history.
Speaker 2: His mom's maiden.
Speaker 1: Name, right, Yeah, so he wanted to be more associated
Speaker 1: with her. Fair enough, So yeah, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: from now on referring to him as Mark. But before
Speaker 1: we get to that, Mark changing his name didn't help
Speaker 1: him get along better with the other children at school.
Speaker 1: When he hit puberty, it hit hard and Mark unfortunately
Speaker 1: had to deal with a face full of acne, which
Speaker 1: I can pretty much, very much so relate to because
Speaker 1: I also had a face full of acne and it
Speaker 1: sucked big time.
Speaker 2: I never had like a face full of acne, but
Speaker 2: I'd get like rather large individuals at times like I
Speaker 2: have this one that's kept coming back in the bridge
Speaker 2: of my nose and it's sud Okay.
Speaker 1: Do you remember my acne?
Speaker 2: Just not really? No?
Speaker 1: No, no, cool, that's good.
Speaker 2: I don't think people really look back at their childhood
Speaker 2: and they're like, hey, remember when you were in high
Speaker 2: school and you had a bunch of zits?
Speaker 1: I know, but I actually had it so bad that
Speaker 1: I had scarring for quite a while that I was
Speaker 1: like dealing with.
Speaker 2: But I think like that acne is just like it
Speaker 2: seems so much more detrimental as a young individual than
Speaker 2: it is when you're older.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah. And this, of course, though, having
Speaker 1: a faithful of acne, which is unfortunate, leads to more bullying,
Speaker 1: right yeah, fair, And things were also still broken at home.
Speaker 1: Mark and his sister didn't like each other, which isn't
Speaker 1: at all out.
Speaker 2: Of the normal sibling rivalries yup.
Speaker 1: But it definitely added to what Mark already had going on.
Speaker 1: Naudia publicly made fun of his acne and the fact
Speaker 1: that Mark had never had a girlfriend. Mark, this is
Speaker 1: bizarre to me, retaliated by digging and taunting Naudia with
Speaker 1: a grave he'd made just for her. Whoa, which I'm like,
Speaker 1: that is next level.
Speaker 2: That is both a hilarious, be dark as fuck and
Speaker 2: see very cynical. And I have a feeling to really
Speaker 2: kind of foreshadow what kind of person you is.
Speaker 1: I know, I just I can't even imagine, like I
Speaker 1: feel like growing up, if my sister had done that,
Speaker 1: I would just I would think that she literally went
Speaker 1: off the deep end.
Speaker 2: I kind of want to like do that to my
Speaker 2: sisters now. It's like, my sister pisses me off. Next
Speaker 2: just at like three in the morning, just call her
Speaker 2: and she wakes up. What the fuck do you want?
Speaker 2: I'm like, look out your window. Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: just standing there with a grave Doug.
Speaker 1: That is terrifying. That is terrifying. So obviously he threatened
Speaker 1: to kill his sister, and Naudia was removed from the
Speaker 1: home shortly after, but I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: necessarily removed because of Mark's threats, Like I'm sure that
Speaker 1: probably didn't help. Yeah, but she was also described as
Speaker 1: troubled and was placed in a home for troubled teens.
Speaker 1: She was still having issues with authority, but also picked
Speaker 1: up a drug habit that unfortunately was something that's stuck
Speaker 1: and later in life, at the age of twenty eight,
Speaker 1: she would die from a cocaine overdose.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: That's super unfortunate. So Mark was left in the house
Speaker 1: with his mother working long hours and his sister living elsewhere.
Speaker 1: So Monique enrolled Mark in a big brother program, where
Speaker 1: Mark would spend two years with the same big brother,
Speaker 1: a man who was later detained under suspicious suspicions of
Speaker 1: molesting young boys. Oh, which I just hate because it's
Speaker 1: like he had a terrible father. Now there's like the
Speaker 1: potential for another male role model in his life and
Speaker 1: this happens. Mark has alway always deny that anything had
Speaker 1: happened between him and his big brother, but again, who
Speaker 1: can know for sure?
Speaker 2: Hopefully he's he's telling the truth and hopefully that is
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just so sick that someone puts themselves in that
Speaker 1: position to I mean, being a big brother is like
Speaker 1: kind of a big deal, like the Big Brother's Big
Speaker 1: Sister's program, right, and then and then to go to
Speaker 1: be in that program for that like, oh, that is
Speaker 1: just so disturbing to me.
Speaker 2: That's that's about as nasty as you get. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you think that this person has a good heart,
Speaker 1: and then yeah.
Speaker 2: No, oh wow.
Speaker 1: When Mark was seventeen, he tried to join the Canadian
Speaker 1: forces but was rejected after his interview. His rejection letter
Speaker 1: stated that he'd been determined to be unsuitable, but Mark
Speaker 1: later went into more detail with a friend. Apparently Mark
Speaker 1: also had an issue with authority, and the interviewers had
Speaker 1: also found him to be anti social.
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was the end of that career, I
Speaker 1: guess you could call it. But Mark got it together
Speaker 1: and started off on another track. He took pre university
Speaker 1: courses and got a job at the hospital that his
Speaker 1: mother worked at to start making some extra money for himself.
Speaker 1: His colleagues found him to be a bit immature, though,
Speaker 1: and hyperactive. He always seemed to be on the edge
Speaker 1: and had a nervous energy about him, and that became
Speaker 1: even more so whenever he was around women. He apparently
Speaker 1: got very shy and awkward around them and didn't really
Speaker 1: seem to know how to talk to them. He either
Speaker 1: said nothing to them at all, which is pretty awkward,
Speaker 1: or more awkwardly, he totally overcompensated and started talking too much.
Speaker 2: I'm literally picturing Raj from The Big Bang Theory, where
Speaker 2: he just could not talk to women unless he was drunk,
Speaker 2: and then even then he just like was way too
Speaker 2: much all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Actually a way of
Speaker 1: just thinking about it. So start telling them about how
Speaker 1: great he was and everything he accomplished his life and
Speaker 1: drunk let them get a word in edgewise. Does that
Speaker 1: still sound like him?
Speaker 2: It sounds more like me. I have some drinks in me. Hey, everybody,
Speaker 2: I'm amazing. You want to hear all the stories about
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: That's you not having been drinking.
Speaker 2: Wow, thank you.
Speaker 1: You're just confident person. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2: I don't tell everyone how great I am when I'm sober,
Speaker 2: only when I'm drinking.
Speaker 1: You tell me all the time. On gree you are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 1: Mark then switched degrees and started doing a technical education
Speaker 1: in electronics technology. He did great in his classes until
Speaker 1: the final term of his program, when he suddenly stopped
Speaker 1: showing up and ended up dropping out. He then moved
Speaker 1: out on his own and got his own apartment. Applying
Speaker 1: to study engineering at a Cole polytechnique, he was admitted
Speaker 1: on the condition that he took two extra classes to
Speaker 1: make up for some of the courses he was missing,
Speaker 1: which didn't sit well with him. Things continued to not
Speaker 1: go in his favor. Fast forward one year, Mark would
Speaker 1: get fired from his job at the hospital for disrespecting
Speaker 1: his supervisors and aggressive behavior.
Speaker 2: Well, he did say he didn't really like authorities or anything.
Speaker 1: It was more so his sister. But I think that
Speaker 1: he also had issues with that too.
Speaker 2: Well, you said when he was like rejected from the
Speaker 2: Canadian forces. Yeah, that was something that they said. It
Speaker 2: came to light he didn't like authorities or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as like along with his sister kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But I think it was more his sister that struggled
Speaker 1: with that. But I mean just probably based on like
Speaker 1: the father they had. Yeah, that may have come from
Speaker 1: that type most likely. Yeah, Mark was furious and was
Speaker 1: going down a dark path. He later told people that
Speaker 1: he was so angry that he was going to commit
Speaker 1: a murder suicide inside the hospital hospital, but everyone just
Speaker 1: took it as him kind of like blowing off steam.
Speaker 1: He didn't follow through on his plot, but those who
Speaker 1: knew him said that Mark became incredibly unpredictable after he
Speaker 1: was fired, and would often fly into fits of rage
Speaker 1: whenever he became frustrated.
Speaker 2: Was something, Wow, he's showing some some signs say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's derailing. Yeah big time. So by the end
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty nine, Mark was jobless, had failed every
Speaker 1: education he'd set out to get, not necessarily like failed,
Speaker 1: but he quit right, which I guess is that failing?
Speaker 1: I don't know? And he was angry, which brings us
Speaker 1: to December sixth, nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Oh no. You always know it's bad when a certain
Speaker 2: date and or time is mentioned. When it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're talking about this person's life and then here's a
Speaker 2: very specific date. You know something is going down.
Speaker 1: And my next line a little after four pm.
Speaker 2: See there he go, Oh, well, like shit.
Speaker 1: So a little after four pm Mark entered a cool
Speaker 1: polytechnique campus. He sat in the office of the registrar,
Speaker 1: rummaging through a plastic bag and ignoring everyone, even the
Speaker 1: staff member who came to ask if he needed any
Speaker 1: help with anything, because like, why the fuck was he
Speaker 1: just sitting there right? But Mark? Mark was getting ready.
Speaker 1: In the bag was a Ruger Minnie fourteen rifle, rounds
Speaker 1: of ammunition, and a hunting knife. Jeez, he'd bought all
Speaker 1: of his supplies only a month before, saying that he
Speaker 1: planned on hunting small game, but that was anything but
Speaker 1: the truth. He then left the registrar's office and started
Speaker 1: walking around the building until he entered a mechanical engineering
Speaker 1: classroom that had about sixty students in it. One student
Speaker 1: was in the was up front giving a presentation, and
Speaker 1: Mark calmly walked up to join them. He stopped the presentation,
Speaker 1: pulled out his gun, and started giving out orders. He
Speaker 1: told all the men to line up on one side
Speaker 1: of the room and all the women on the other.
Speaker 1: Everyone initially thought it was some kind of joke because
Speaker 1: it was actually the last day of classes before exam started,
Speaker 1: so they're just thinking like someone's just doing a prank. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so no one actually listened until Mark got them to
Speaker 1: listen by firing a warning shot into the ceiling. Out
Speaker 1: of about sixty students, only nine of them were women,
Speaker 1: and Mark ordered them to wait on one side of
Speaker 1: the room while he told the men to get out
Speaker 1: of the room. When he had them alone, Mark turned
Speaker 1: to the women and simply asked them if they knew
Speaker 1: why they were there. The women didn't answer, but one
Speaker 1: of them asked Mark who he was Instead of answering,
Speaker 1: Mark told the women that he was fighting feminism. The
Speaker 1: women were shocked and confused and I'm sure also terrified
Speaker 1: out of their minds, but one woman actually woke up.
Speaker 1: Natalie Provost tried to calm the situation by telling Mark
Speaker 1: that he wasn't holding feminists at gunpoint. She told him
Speaker 1: that they were just women studying engineering, not feminists, but
Speaker 1: Mark disagreed with this. He opened fire, shouting you're all
Speaker 1: feminists as she as he shot at the defenseless women
Speaker 1: in front of him. He hit all nine, killing six
Speaker 1: and wounding the other three. He killed Helene Colgan, Natalie Crattea,
Speaker 1: and Annie Saint Marinault, who were all twenty three years
Speaker 1: of age. Barbara Dignault and Anne Marie LeMay were both
Speaker 1: twenty two years old, and Sonia Pelletier twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2: Wow, so this guy's a right dick?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah? More so? Wow, Like it's just unfathomable to me.
Speaker 2: To just be like, no, you are this and I
Speaker 2: am fighting that kind of self righteous pricked do you
Speaker 2: think you are? Like? Holy fuck?
Speaker 1: Like it's so disgusting. So as the women were left
Speaker 1: wounded and dying on the classroom floor, Mark started walking around.
Speaker 1: He wrote the word shit twice on one of the
Speaker 1: students' projects before leaving the classroom and heading down the hall.
Speaker 1: As he wandered through the halls, he wounded three more
Speaker 1: students on his way to another classroom, where he burst
Speaker 1: through the door and held his gun up to another woman.
Speaker 1: He pulled the trigger, but his gun didn't go off.
Speaker 1: He pulled it again and the same thing happened, so
Speaker 1: he actually left this classroom to reload. Once that was done,
Speaker 1: he tried to get back into it, but by then
Speaker 1: the students had locked him out. He fired three shots
Speaker 1: at the lock, but he couldn't break through, so he
Speaker 1: moved on. Whoever he was aiming to I feel like
Speaker 1: has like wow, like a believable Guardian Angel or something.
Speaker 2: Hey, wow, no kidding For that gun to jam like that.
Speaker 1: What did a jam? Or was he just out?
Speaker 2: It probably would have jammed by the sound of it, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I mean he would have known if he was out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm not one, but still like, honestly very
Speaker 1: like Guardian Angel. But also the trauma that would still
Speaker 1: be associated with having a guy.
Speaker 2: Draw the PTSD from that would be real, especially considering.
Speaker 2: I mean, many people would probably question like why was
Speaker 2: I the one to live?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like what why did these people die? But I get
Speaker 2: to live, Not to say that it's anyone's fault, Like
Speaker 2: you should not be sitting here questioning why was I
Speaker 2: the one to get to live? But some people, like
Speaker 2: in a PTSD moment, will start thinking that way and
Speaker 2: it's it's terrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, oh my goodness, Like this whole scene is
Speaker 1: just it gives me goosebumps and it makes me ill
Speaker 1: to my stomach.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't blame you for that, huh.
Speaker 1: So we headed into the school's financial services all office,
Speaker 1: where he found Maurice Leganeer, a twenty three year old
Speaker 1: budget clerk, so she wasn't a student but yet an employee.
Speaker 1: She had heard the shots and saw what was happening,
Speaker 1: so she locked the door to try to keep Mark out. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: though the door she just locked had a window, so
Speaker 1: Mark was able to aim and shoot her through it.
Speaker 1: Fun Maurice was a newlywed she was married for three
Speaker 1: months before her death, and her husband Jeff, had come
Speaker 1: to pick her up at the school that night and
Speaker 1: was met with the chaos. Apparently, there's like it's seen
Speaker 1: on a news footage or whatever. Him like searching the
Speaker 1: crowd or like searching the people that are coming out
Speaker 1: in stretchers.
Speaker 2: And oh, man, that is absolutely.
Speaker 1: I know. I know. I didn't write that in here.
Speaker 1: It's like maybe I won't say it, but came out
Speaker 1: because it's just yeah, I like, yeah, to be in
Speaker 1: that situation. Hey wow. Mark then moved to the cafeteria
Speaker 1: where about one hundred students and staff were gathered.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, this guy. Holy, I'm sorry, this guy he
Speaker 2: makes me mad.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very much.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think his favorite word is shit.
Speaker 1: Well he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Without saying a word, Mark lifted his gun and shot
Speaker 1: nursing student Barbara Klusnik and wounded another before people realized
Speaker 1: what the fuck was happening and all hell broke loose.
Speaker 1: Barbara was the oldest of the victims at thirty one
Speaker 1: years old, and her story sucks. Her and her husband
Speaker 1: had moved to Montreal from Poland in nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 1: and they believed that Canada to be like the safest
Speaker 1: place in the world, so they chose they chose it.
Speaker 1: And she wasn't an engineering student. She was a nursing student,
Speaker 1: like I said, but apparently her and her husband were
Speaker 1: in the cafeteria cafeteria because it was like the least
Speaker 1: expensive on campus or something.
Speaker 2: Male.
Speaker 1: Oh, which I just I hate shit like that.
Speaker 2: That breaks my heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it never really said, but I do think
Speaker 1: that her husband was like with her there like it
Speaker 1: from and no one. It never really said it in
Speaker 1: the reports, but you can kind of tell. So I
Speaker 1: can't like to be there witnessing that. Like Geez, people
Speaker 1: either fled the room or tried to find somewhere to hide.
Speaker 1: Two of the women who stayed were twenty one year
Speaker 1: old students, and Marie Edward, who was a chemical engineering student,
Speaker 1: and Genevieve Bergeron, a civil engineering student. They were hiding
Speaker 1: along with two other students, one male and one female,
Speaker 1: but Mark saw them first. He shot and killed both Anne, Marie,
Speaker 1: and Genevieve before ordering the other two students to come
Speaker 1: out from under the table. They listened, and for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: Mark decided to let them live before he moved on.
Speaker 1: He then headed to the third floor, where he shot
Speaker 1: and wounded one female and two more male students before
Speaker 1: he entered yet another classroom. As he entered the classroom,
Speaker 1: He told the men to get out as he turned
Speaker 1: to Maurice Leclair, who was at the front of the
Speaker 1: class giving a presentation without his tentation, He shot her,
Speaker 1: wounding her before moving on to the students sitting in
Speaker 1: the front row. He shot and killed twenty nine year
Speaker 1: old Maud Havnik and twenty one year old Michel Richard
Speaker 1: as they desperately tried to flee the room, with others
Speaker 1: hiding under their desks. Mark moved through the classroom, targeting
Speaker 1: the female students. He wounded three more and then killed
Speaker 1: twenty one year old Annie Turcotte. He then reloaded and
Speaker 1: headed to the front of the class, shooting in any
Speaker 1: direction he felt like. When he got there, Maurice, who
Speaker 1: he wounded just earlier, was still alive and asking for help.
Speaker 1: So Mark pulled out his hunting knife and stabbed her
Speaker 1: three times, killing his last victim. Wow she was twenty
Speaker 1: three years old.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, Not only is this dude like absolutely blatantly sexist,
Speaker 2: but oh, I don't even know how to put into
Speaker 2: words the lack of remorse he has for human life
Speaker 2: boggles my mind. Yeah, someone's pleading for help and instead
Speaker 2: of even I'm just playing devil's advocate here because he
Speaker 2: has a gun in his hand, just ending their life
Speaker 2: with a bullet to the head, he decides he wants
Speaker 2: to revel in stabbing her to death to finish the job.
Speaker 2: That right there speaks so much about what kind of
Speaker 2: person this guy is. We can go off and say
Speaker 2: how much of a dirt bag and piece of shit
Speaker 2: this guy is, but that right there says so much.
Speaker 1: Yep, And the thing is too, like it was reported
Speaker 1: that he was so calm and stuff through all of
Speaker 1: this process, right like this wasn't phazing him, which is
Speaker 1: just bizarre. Like, oh my gosh. Now the really shitty
Speaker 1: thing though about Maurice here. She would later be found
Speaker 1: by her father, who was part of the Montoural Police Force.
Speaker 2: Oh no.
Speaker 1: He immediately recognized her sweater, which she had worn to
Speaker 1: Sunday dinner the week before, saying she had purchased it
Speaker 1: for Christmas.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, everything about this just keeps tugging at
Speaker 2: the heartstrings.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, I know it is so disturbing, Like.
Speaker 2: I just like, look at my sweater, dad, I bought
Speaker 2: Oh don't I bought this for Christmas this year? Dad?
Speaker 2: Like what do you think it's Sunday dinner? Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then because of like, holy shit, scene that's painted in
Speaker 2: my head with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I feel like I'm just gonna sob here.
Speaker 1: So Mark then took off his hat, wrapped his coat
Speaker 1: around his gun, and shout it, oh shit, before he
Speaker 1: shot himself in the head. His rampage had lasted only
Speaker 1: twenty minutes from start to finish, leaving fourteen people injured,
Speaker 1: ten being women and four men, and another fourteen women dead.
Speaker 1: Holy twenty eight people.
Speaker 2: That's wild.
Speaker 1: And that's not even to mention all the people that
Speaker 1: are affected, not necessarily with an injury, but with like
Speaker 1: the pgs.
Speaker 2: And stuff that we're we're talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It became known as the Montreal massacre and
Speaker 1: sent shockwaves through Quebec, the rest of Canada, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure the world understandably.
Speaker 2: So I'm sitting here shook right now from just hearing it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this is how many years later yeah ah wow.
Speaker 1: So in the days and weeks that followed, there was
Speaker 1: widespread public debate focused on the cause of and motive
Speaker 1: for the attack. Some people felt the actions of this
Speaker 1: shooter was an isolated incident with any without any social significance,
Speaker 1: emphasizing the shooter's abuse as a child. For others, it
Speaker 1: revealed a profound angst against the place of women in society.
Speaker 1: Many suggested that the tragedy was indicative of people not
Speaker 1: supporting quality for women.
Speaker 2: Now, I certainly think that there's probably something regarding his
Speaker 2: childhood at play. You can't sit here and tell me
Speaker 2: that it doesn't have any factor.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, with many of our cases, there's always, yeah,
Speaker 1: stuff from the.
Speaker 2: Past, whether it's like a point zero one percent factor
Speaker 2: in it or like one hundred percent factor. I don't
Speaker 2: that's completely up debate.
Speaker 1: Of course, his dad hated women, Yeah, I know, But.
Speaker 2: I mean that's what I mean is we don't know
Speaker 2: how much it played into factor. But he is also
Speaker 2: how old was he when he left his family left
Speaker 2: his dad too? Right?
Speaker 1: Oh? No, I think he was a bit older than that.
Speaker 2: But how old was he?
Speaker 1: Oh, gosh, it happen? Was he back?
Speaker 2: Was he a teenager at the point? No? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: He was under ten for sure.
Speaker 2: So he probably would have been naive enough and like
Speaker 2: his mom would have raised him much better than what
Speaker 2: his father was. Clearly, so I don't think it would
Speaker 2: have had as like a huge impact. I think it
Speaker 2: would have had an impact. But I think not only
Speaker 2: was it his father impacting him, but I think there
Speaker 2: was a lot to do with who he was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I also feel like, I mean, he
Speaker 1: had issues with against feminists or whatever want to say,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean like that everyone as a whole
Speaker 1: did right necessarily. But I know back in the day,
Speaker 1: like they're really, there was still issues. There still is
Speaker 1: today with equality, right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: As people desperately tried to piece together the reason behind
Speaker 1: Mark's madness that day, some answers were found in a
Speaker 1: suicide letter that was later found I was going to
Speaker 1: read it, but then I decided, like, fuck him, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not reading his fucking letter on here. I just
Speaker 1: couldn't do.
Speaker 2: It fair enough. You don't want to perpetuate these words.
Speaker 1: I had it written in here, and I was just like, no,
Speaker 1: this doesn't feel right, So I'm just going to summarize it.
Speaker 2: Power on you for that.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, yeah, because like, fuck him. He quoted his
Speaker 1: rejection from the military and claimed that feminists had ruined
Speaker 1: his life. He said that women were flooding the job market,
Speaker 1: making it harder for men like himself to find a job,
Speaker 1: and they were trying to have all the advantages of
Speaker 1: being a man and a woman a.
Speaker 2: Woman, okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: With the letter was a list though, was set with
Speaker 1: nineteen names, nineteen women who he said would have been
Speaker 1: killed had he not run out of time and started earlier.
Speaker 1: It included the names of well known Quebec women, including
Speaker 1: a journalist, union leader, politician, TV personality, and six police officers,
Speaker 1: making it very clear marx motive for the attack. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I think we already know yet.
Speaker 2: This is honestly akin to a child throwing a hissy
Speaker 2: fit not doing his way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had an issue with basically that he couldn't
Speaker 1: get into that engineering school. But it was literally the
Speaker 1: issue was that he just needed two other courses. That's
Speaker 1: just a known thing that sometimes you have to have,
Speaker 1: like university. I can't remember what they're call it, but
Speaker 1: pre RECs or something, yeah, prerequisites yeah, to get in. Right,
Speaker 1: had he done those two courses, he would have fucking
Speaker 1: got in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Had he done his work like the women, yeah
Speaker 2: who did their work and got in, he would have
Speaker 2: been right there with it.
Speaker 1: But he thought that those women were taking his place. No,
Speaker 1: but no, dude, it was just that you need to
Speaker 1: get your fucking shit together.
Speaker 2: Those women were doing far better than he was, and
Speaker 2: he was pissed off about it. Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: He was throwing a hissy fit because he was not
Speaker 2: as good at them as them.
Speaker 1: They were far better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had some fucking complex where he figured
Speaker 2: that they should just be lower than him, no matter what,
Speaker 2: because he's a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The incident led to more strict gun control laws
Speaker 1: in Canada and increased action to end violence against women.
Speaker 1: It also resulted in changes in emergency or services protocols
Speaker 1: and shootings, because I mean, I don't know if they
Speaker 1: had dealt with a lot of this, So there were
Speaker 1: like a few issues where people kind of thought the
Speaker 1: police should enter far quicker than they did. So I'm
Speaker 1: and it did. They changed protocols, and I know in
Speaker 1: future shootings it was helpful. And then the reason why
Speaker 1: I did this case is because tomorrow marks the thirty
Speaker 1: fourth anniversary of the attack. Oh really, December sixth is
Speaker 1: a recognized day of remembrance in Canada, declared to be
Speaker 1: a National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of this day, see, and I think,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure probably in passing saw it on
Speaker 2: the news.
Speaker 1: The reasoning I have is because I used to work
Speaker 1: at a university, right, and then I know every day,
Speaker 1: like December sixth, there would be some sort of ceremony
Speaker 1: if you call it. And the other thing is lots
Speaker 1: of times men and women I think too, can wear
Speaker 1: a white ribbon and it's just sort of okay, it
Speaker 1: can also be a white ribbon day or whatever, and
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like they're they're, you know, standing
Speaker 1: against violence against women as well.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. Yeah. See, I've worked in a dominantly male dominated
Speaker 2: environment and a sawmill for the last sixteen years, so
Speaker 2: I rarely even had female coworkers. So yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: something we really talked about, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I know it does seem I think the
Speaker 1: only reason I really know about it is from working
Speaker 1: on a university and we recognized it.
Speaker 2: So glad to know about it now, though, Like I.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, like that is it's just researching that is
Speaker 1: just gut wrenching, because I mean it was quite a
Speaker 1: while ago, but it still happens constantly, the shootings and
Speaker 1: stuff in schools or like religious places, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: just it's so hard to even fathom that we have
Speaker 1: that sort of thing happening.
Speaker 2: It's well, and how often these shootings occur too, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it blows my mind. And it's so sad, so sad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: even if you look like if you scroll on TikTok
Speaker 2: or Instagram, I bet you you're gonna within the hour
Speaker 2: run into a reel on like school safety with shootings.
Speaker 2: H Like, I've seen videos on how to lock a
Speaker 2: door with a chair and like what to do in
Speaker 2: the event of and backpacks that are made of kevlar
Speaker 2: and shit like just to protect you from running away.
Speaker 2: It's like, I can't believe kids have to worry about this, I.
Speaker 1: Know, and I don't necessarily think when we were in
Speaker 1: school that we had any sort of drills like that.
Speaker 1: It was always like earthquake, which we never get earthquakes
Speaker 1: and Prince George really they're very minor, so it's a
Speaker 1: bit odd.
Speaker 2: Well, i mean, I'm sure we one day made.
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering now in schools if that's changed, and
Speaker 1: they're they're also prepared for like much worse things happening potentially.
Speaker 2: I can imagine they are.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, one of them, I was just gonna say,
Speaker 1: you just look just drained.
Speaker 2: I am dreamed. That dreamed me big time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you look like you need to go to bed.
Speaker 2: Usually I'm ready and prepared with a heavy episode like
Speaker 2: this because I'm drinking with already. You didn't warn me,
Speaker 2: and I didn't have a whiskey, So now I'm screwed
Speaker 2: and I mean to pour a whiskey after this.
Speaker 1: Well, two more things I'll just say they're not in
Speaker 1: my notes, but one of the links below lists it
Speaker 1: has like a picture of each of the fourteen people
Speaker 1: that were fourteen women that were killed, and then you
Speaker 1: can click on their picture and like learn a little
Speaker 1: bit more about them. And there were other victims though too,
Speaker 1: because of course there were students later that had killed
Speaker 1: them or committed suicide. I think a father had committed suicide.
Speaker 1: Oh no, So, I mean we talked about the day
Speaker 1: and the victims from the day, but there are just
Speaker 1: so many more afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the chain of the events goes a lot farther.
Speaker 2: He affected so many more people's lives. I can only
Speaker 2: imagine how many.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow. Well, I mean, look at how many people
Speaker 1: lost children that day, lost spouses.
Speaker 2: Well, you literally have the primary victims who lost their life,
Speaker 2: then you have those injured, Then you have those who
Speaker 2: were around them witnesses, and then you have first responders,
Speaker 2: and you have the family, and you have even the
Speaker 2: news people who were there taking photos or the cameraman
Speaker 2: who was seeing these body after body come out of
Speaker 2: this school, or someone who was like I was attending
Speaker 2: that school next semester and I like that could have
Speaker 2: been me, yeah, or someone who lives just down the street,
Speaker 2: or someone who just worked with this guy, or the
Speaker 2: dude who even sold them the gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the list goes on. There was actually one.
Speaker 1: There was a photo too. It was just like unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I won't be posting it, but it was this photo
Speaker 1: that a reporter I think, like got lifted up and
Speaker 1: like shot into the cafeteria and was like award winning
Speaker 1: photo because there is a woman who was killed slumped
Speaker 1: in a chair and then like an a taking down
Speaker 1: a Christmas decoration behind her. Oh wow, And so the
Speaker 1: loved ones like this got published and stuff. So the
Speaker 1: loved ones saw this, which is just oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: That is quite the image.
Speaker 1: Holy yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, it's just so
Speaker 1: uncomfor It's so uncomfortable. Some of these cases are so uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: They truly are. And I can't imagine getting in the
Speaker 2: mind of some of the people who commit these crimes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it baffles me what drives them to really go this
Speaker 2: far because for me, I'm like, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: feel bad if I accidentally step on my dog's paw
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm so sorry, I'm the worst person
Speaker 2: in the world. And then it's like someone just can
Speaker 2: so coldly take people's lives, like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean these were all like beautiful and tell
Speaker 1: legend a lot of them were just about to graduate,
Speaker 1: like yeah, you know, starting.
Speaker 2: The lives they could have led.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. When everyone talked about that, jeez.
Speaker 2: Wow, Well, good job on the episode in the research, babe.
Speaker 2: That was that was that was heavy.
Speaker 1: It was It's a it's a heavy one for sure,
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we just want to thank you guys for sticking
Speaker 2: through this, thank you for being here, thank you for listening.
Speaker 2: If you want to check out any of our links,
Speaker 2: they are in the description of this podcast, like our
Speaker 2: YouTube with We have the vlog miss going on our Instagram, Facebook, Patreon.
Speaker 2: It's all down there. Feel free to check it out.
Speaker 2: And if you're just here not checking those out, that's
Speaker 2: cool too. We seriously appreciate you. You guys are absolutely wicked.
Speaker 1: That's totally fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, until next Tuesday, stay wicked,