Speaker 2: What is up?
Speaker 1: Fellasiko's I Am dan fa Valley coming at you with
the One the Only mister Mort Jensen of the NBA podcast,
fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO Max fame, and
of course where you probably know him from his Only
Fans celebrity. The Trade Deadline Primer Machine continues to roll on.
If you're just checking us out for the first time,
make sure to hit that subscribe button on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
wherever you.
Speaker 2: Consume us we have.
Speaker 1: These episodes will be live for all thirty teams pretty
much by the start of February before the trade deadline,
So go check those out, bounce around if you haven't listened,
watched all of them already.
Speaker 2: Mort Before we talk Clippers, how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 3: Doing well? Sir? Doing well? Slightly under the weather because
it's January, and January has nine hundred and forty six
days in it, so it's almost impossible not to get
hit a little bit. But outside of that, the trade
headlining's coming up. Dam It's that's the nice and cozy feeling.
I always loved the trade deadline.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Last year's trade deadline was kind of a bummer, though
we had the Luka Dontrich bombshell beforehand, and then nothing
just massive really happened after that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna manifest and say and say, what what's that?
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 3: Because come on, there were a lot of changes going
on last year. I didn't mind that less.
Speaker 1: Your's trade deadline had like a like a flurry of
just mine, unless I'm misremembering, like who is the at
the deadline?
Speaker 2: Not the Luca don trade?
Speaker 3: All right, Yes, that's because I'm including Luca and I'm
including like that. There were more though, right am I?
Or am I? Did I just skip a year ahead
in my head? Was it the year before where practically
the whole damn league changed actresses? I felt as though
there were a lot of moving parts last year.
Speaker 1: I thought there was, so I did I'm trying to
remember was I do live grades at bleacher Report every year,
and I think that twenty twenty five was like the
most manageable it ever was. So Jimmy Butler twenty four,
Jimmy Butler was around the trade deadline, he went to
the Dubs, right or is that no? No, that was
even earlier, so that didn't even happen around the trade deadline.
Speaker 3: I thought it was busy. Let me just put it
that I thought I was. I thought I was writing
all the time because I was doing trade grades too,
and like for some reason I have was stuck in
my head that last year was like a rock concert.
Speaker 2: Am I misremember?
Speaker 3: I am? I am?
Speaker 1: I'm misremembering anything. Let's look so I'm going through my
grades right now. Butler to the Golden State Warriors was
on there. I don't remember the exact date of when
that happened. Let's look that up, all.
Speaker 3: Right, that happened February than talking about the clips though,
this is this should be the pond that.
Speaker 1: Oh February fifth, Okay, that was That's a pretty big
name to get moved. I stand corrected there and brandon
Ingram to Toronto?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Uh? Mark Mark Williams to the Lakers.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, DeAndre Hunter, come on, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: I was actually I love that for the Yes Caves
at the time. So let's let's talk Clippers though. We'll
begin with their trade deadline vitals. And their trade deadline
vitals are suddenly pertinent because the Clippers apparently are good again.
Speaker 3: Who knew?
Speaker 1: They're six point nine million dollars into the tax. They
could have fifty million plus in cap space this summer,
but they can have over one hundred and forty million
dollars in cap space in twenty twenty seven. They can
trade up to two first right now in twenty thirty
and twenty thirty two. They also have their seconds in
twenty thirty one and twenty thirty two. They have a
couple of notable trade exceptions from PJ. Tucker six and
a half million that expires on February third. Then they
have four point two million from Bones Highland that expires
February sixth, twenty twenty six. I want to start here
very quickly. More, do you think because they're just at
a number, there's like eight teams or so that are
within seven and a half million dollars of ducking the tax,
do you think that's something they will try to do,
or because they profile is just being flexible the next
two years, that's not going to be as big a
priority for them as it might be for let's say
the Celtics as an example.
Speaker 3: I think that depends on the offers that are going
to come in this year, so they could have something
interesting up their sleeve by dankling Don Bugdanovic with the
draft picks right like as salary matching, as a salary
matching component, because Bogdanovich in and off itself is not
necessarily someone seems will be actively trading for. He's on
a team option next year, so effectively on restricted creation
because you can just decline that option pretty easily. So
that's interesting. If you want to go for a bigger
expiring contracts, there's John Collins, but those are the two, Like,
especially the Bugdanovic contract, in my eyes, that's interesting, like
where if you can go out there and an upgrade now,
although you only have one point one million to add
to your your books because otherwise you get over the
first apron and then you can't take another dollar back,
So it would have to be within that framework financially.
If there's a clear upgrade to be had, I think
they're gonna do it, and I think they're gonna say
screw the luxury tax because if it makes us better,
it makes us better. They've been playing awesome basketball of late. Now,
if that deal does not materialize and they're looking at
it and nothing is really coming up for him and
they don't see any realistic pathway forward to improve dramatically,
then yeah, why shouldn't they look at ways to get
under the tax? But I mean it's still it's seven million.
That's not peanuts. Like if there were like one point
two million over that's a little easier to clear seven million.
Is you have to give up something to clear seven million,
that's tough.
Speaker 1: To do, or you need to have a player that
you're willing to give up who just clears that bar
to where it's Would you just trade Garret J Junior
into a trade someone's traded player exception, And that's like
I mean, especially now like with him being with dealing
with the knee injury, that's the I don't know what
type of value that would have. So I don't think
it's gonna be a huge priority just because of who
owns them. I did want to ask, though, how important
is their twenty twenty six cap space if you're them
To me, I'm looking at twenty twenty seven. I'm not
looking at so if I have to take on money
that runs through next year, that's not gonna phaze me as.
Speaker 3: The Clippers right right, because next year you're on the hook,
presumably for at least ninety two million on Kawhi James
Harden alone, Soupbac is adding roughly another twenty Derek Jones
depending on whether to keep him or not. That's another
ten point ten and a half million. Like you can
get off the book Don Bogdanovic contract, the Brook Lopez contract,
the Nicolas Patum contract. That's all fine and well, but
at the end of the day, it's not going to material.
License is something that's stantial in terms of like available
funds in free agency. So, like you, I think the
year to circle is twenty twenty seven, which leads me.
Speaker 1: To this question, how aggressive should they be? And this
is had we had this conversation some time in December,
the answer would have been very different. But since December twentieth,
which is when their run began, they're sixteen and three
as we're recording this the second best offense in the league,
the sixth best defense, second highest net rating.
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1: If this was just if this is the only season
part of the season that has been played, he would
probably win MVP because of just what's going on with
the Thunder and Shae Nikole Yokich is out. He's been
when he's played absolutely insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you look at.
Speaker 1: What they've also gotten out of John Collins playing better
of course, yeah, for sure, but having guys like Jordan
Miller Kobe Sanders like competing for you, not just competing
for you or giving you minutes. Look, Kobe Sanders, the
Clippers are out scoring opponents by eight point nine points
per one hundred posessions when he plays without James Harden
and Kawhi Leonard. During those minutes, Kobe Sanders is shooting
forty seven percent on threes and fifty five percent on twos,
and a lot of his looks are just from inside
the arc. They're coming unassisted anyway, So he's not like
I think two thirds of his looks inside the arc
during these minutes are going unassisted. These are not just
fly by night like coasting by minutes. There might actually
be something here. And so this is all to say,
I don't want to the caveat of well, will Kawhi
Leonard be healthy? I think that matters, And well, James
Harden's getting older, what.
Speaker 2: Does he look like in the playoffs? That matters.
Speaker 1: But just based on what the Clippers are doing right now,
when I'm asking you how aggressive you think they should
be is there a case to be made that they
should be open to moving a first round pick? That
to me is the sign of aggression and this is
what I want to cast away if it's part of
their calculus shore, But if they think the NBA is
going to take away those first round picks is part
of the aspiration investigation anyway, then yeah, okay, you might
as well trade them, because what are they supposed to
do at that point? But moving that aside, have you
seen enough from the Clippers or do you read enough
into what they're doing to say, hey, you could, we
could couch it and say, oh, if the right player
is available, But then like, what is the right player
that would get you apart with one or both of
those picks, Because this team is now fascinating because their
road to doing anything. Even if you believe in how
good they are right now, it's still going to entail
them fucking shit up in the Western Conference by getting
into the plane. Just getting into the top six for
them is not realistic. They're five losses behind sixth place,
and that the way they've been playing, that doesn't seem insurmountable.
But all the teams in front of them are trying
to win too, and that's where it gets dicey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a pretty good perspective in terms
of like should it matter, should they just not go
for it? Because there is a realistic perspective here of
when you have Kawhi playing at this level and being
as healthy as he is, Like, he's how many games
he hit? Has he missed so far? It's like thirteen, right, fourteen,
thirteen fourteen somewhere along those lines.
Speaker 1: And he's only missed I think during this like stretch,
what has he missed fewer than five? He's missed three
during this stretch thirty one points a game, forty three
percent from three get into the foul line where he
just doesn't really miss.
Speaker 2: The defense has been there. I mean, it's just I.
Speaker 1: Almost I don't hate that we get to see this
from Kawhi Leonard, but it makes me long for a
reality in which he never had to battle these lower
body injuries in the first place, because this dude is
just he'sn't the word again, is insane.
Speaker 2: He is insane.
Speaker 3: You know, I've said for many years that whenever people
were basically saying, oh, you know, the next Michael Jordan
was always Kobe Bryant. It's like, no, Kawhi was was
that guy? Like if there's you know, aesthetically Goby, yes,
but in terms of like production, influence everything, it's Kawhi.
Speaker 1: He does feel like if Michael Jordan played in today's MBA,
this is what it would look like.
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: Maybe more athletic, like more explosive in that regard, but yeah,
for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the two way play, the fact that he
doesn't turn down the mid range shots like Kawhi. Obviously
in this day and age, you're more inclined to take threes.
I think Mike would be too. But like, I think
that is this is the player. I think this is
the Michael Jordan comparison player. He has been grotesquely underrated
for years and years and years and well, I don't
know if he's been underrated, I think he's been forgotten,
like because of the injuries. Because of sure, yeah, I
mean he We rarely talk about him in terms of
like who's the best player in the NBA. We never
talked when we when someone.
Speaker 1: Can't, if he's if he's not available. He was before
those injuries started piling up. He was absolutely or they
did everyone did the thing because it was Lebron was
consensus at that point. It was Lebron's the best To
excuse me, Kauai is the best two way player in
the game, So I don't think forgotten might be the
right word when he was fair.
Speaker 3: But let me ask you this. Then there is a
conversation that's been taking place for a while now in
terms of who is the best American.
Speaker 2: Player right now?
Speaker 3: Does Yeah, that's been if we ignore the injuries and
just look at what he can do in terms of
like his influence on a basketball team, is there not
a realistic argument on his behalf?
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think I'm gonna pick Tyre's Halbert and just
because he's so anti Ice, I think that just boosts.
Speaker 3: It for him.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, there is wow because it's as a
right now, the way that Kawhi Leonard is playing right now. Yeah,
the answer is probably just Kawhi Leonard right otherwise who
who is it? Anthony Edwards will be involved in that discussion,
Lebron just step Steph.
Speaker 2: I think still, I.
Speaker 3: Still I think Why's better? And I love Steph, But
like I think, why a fully healthy Kawhi Leonard? What
he's doing right now, for example, that like the two
way play, the floor spacing, the efficiency, the defense, that
the just the fact that he's so pluck and play.
To me, I think there's a real conversation, but that's me.
That's where I am.
Speaker 1: The conversation just is hard to have because we can't like,
injuries are an annoying caveat, but they're a very real
one too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. The thing is when he plays, when
he's not injured, I think for the most part, he
just steps up and does this. You know, he dominates
on some certain level, but he's just leveled up even
further this year.
Speaker 1: But so, knowing all this justin I'll throw targets at
you in a second to see if some of them
wouldn't cost first round picks.
Speaker 2: Some of them might.
Speaker 1: If you're the Clippers, are you even like, just as
a baseline thought process, are you going into this deadline
being open to moving first round equity or do you
have to take the stance of, Look, this team is
good right now, but we have this flexibility plan in
twenty twenty seven. Honestly, what title, like, what's their percentage
of winning a title? Do you think they have a
five percent. That's the Daryl Morey a line of demarcation.
Do you think you have a five percent chance? And
if you do, go all in? I go back and
forth because if on them honestly aspiration investigation aside, I'm
not moving first round picks.
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 1: It would have to be just a player, which again
I'll throw at you in a second that I don't
even think they're gonna have access to anyway. And so
if I'm trying to make moves on the margins to
where it's we've got some basically expire functionally expiring contracts,
I'll trade the seconds. You can have the two seconds.
What can we do with that? Is probably how I'm
approaching the deadline for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. I think to me,
I would be open to it for you know, the
Kawhi argument, like when you have him to this extent
where it's only missed fourteen games throughout the entire season,
when he's he's playing like this, it almost feels like
to some extent you owe it to yourself to say
we can't waste the season of him, like we just can't.
Speaker 2: But because everything with him shifts on a dime.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's the problem is that you You're like
when he was sent home from that road trip recently,
and when I saw that, I honestly thought that we
were gonna get some type of update.
Speaker 2: He's played since.
Speaker 1: I thought we were gonna get an update although he's
done for the season or they'll be reevaluating like eight
to twelve weeks. And that's I think that's the genesis
of whatever hesitance I have and hesitants that I think
they should have. I want to ask you another question
before getting into actual needs and targets. Though there's been
a lot of this was mostly from when the Clippers
played by Doo Doo for the first twenty five games
whatever it was, first third of the season.
Speaker 2: What would it take for you to move.
Speaker 1: A visa Zobots as them, who has two years left
on his deal after this, he will never account for
more than twelve percent of the salary cap, and so
like that's sort of the Zubots backstories. Like teams that
want a starting caliber center who's not making boohoo dollars,
I think are going to be very interested in him.
But you're the Clippers, you're playing really well, right now
we're talking about trading first round picks to get better.
Speaker 2: What would it take for you to move off of
a visa Zobots.
Speaker 3: Probably more than what teams are willing to give up,
because he's more important to me if I'm the Clippers,
as a player than as a trade asset. So you
would have to come to me if I'm the Clippers,
and you'll blow me out of the water with an offer,
because if you're pivoting off soubuch one, you would have
to get some center in return, unless you're like, hey,
the corpse of Brook Lopez, come, come start and play.
Speaker 1: Uh what if Neiterhauser is just ready you think he is? Though, no,
absolutely not. I'm just saying, but like you.
Speaker 3: Know, there isn't really a center alternative at this point
in time. And whoever you get back, if you're trading
him for another center and additional draft picks for example,
presumably that center is going to be worse. That's not
going to help their situation any So, like it would
have to be multiple firsts as far as I'm concerned,
Like I and again it's I realized, like in isolation,
that seems like a big pack trade package for Ivisha Subuch.
But that's because he's so important to me as an organization.
He's so important to me as a player at this
point in time, specifically to me the Clippers. Then he
has to so many other prospects out there, So like
I would want the freaking form for him?
Speaker 2: What if I have two? This is I don't know
what I would do. These are not endorsements.
Speaker 1: What a Toronto comes calling and in exchange for they
have to take back the yaka pertl deal. You're getting
their first round pick this year, their first round pick
in twenty twenty eight, and there's got to be something else.
And then you're not getting Calin Array Boyles. But you've
got to get something else.
Speaker 3: You have to.
Speaker 1: But yet now it starts to get interesting. Yes, Indiana
comes calling. There needs to be other money involved, but
they give you Jay Huff. They're twenty twenty seven and
twenty twenty nine first round picks. So not this year's
when it's going to be top four whatever it's going
to be.
Speaker 3: Oh all right, twenty twenty seven is interesting because like,
like you and I've talked about this before.
Speaker 2: I I want to trade Tyres Albert and we know
no but.
Speaker 3: Like I'm just I am so not there in terms
of like, oh, someone has just had an achilles tear,
like he's he's going to be fine a year later
like that For some players, that's a long term injury
where it takes like a year and a half to
get back, where even the first year you're back, you
can be severely limited in many ways. So like, if
I'm the Clippers and I'm looking at that twenty twenty
seven pick from Indiana, I'm thinking about it, like I'm
absolutely thinking about it. I'm like, are we sure Tyres
Haliburton is going to be Tyrese Haliburton that year you
were suggests that he's he won't be yet, So I
think that's an interesting.
Speaker 1: That gets me thinking if I'm the Clippers, but if
you want to win now or at any point over
the next like, that's not a trade Jay Huff is fine,
but you need to then go figure out how are
we getting another big man. Maybe there's a different trade
you could make, but that that's the one that gets
me thinking. I don't have any other teams that I
think would give you multiple first round picks, or maybe
they would, but it's just not like I I've bandied
about what if the thunder just came calling and said,
you could have your own first round pick back this year,
and they want to get Zubots because he's cheaper than
Hartenstein moving forward, they're worried about their costs as they
build that that's something they could consider. But now they've
won so much that how much value is there in
getting their first round pick back. But at the same time,
that's just something to consider.
Speaker 3: So that'd be the other one hard So, I mean
my counters to that would be the same. I say,
a Hardenstein who definitely signed a wink wink deal in
terms of like twenty six twenty seven, where.
Speaker 1: Well, I think if you're Oklahoma City, a lot of
their fans seem to want to trade for a big
anyway because of the injuries to Chet and Hartenstein over
the past couple of years. Yeah, so, I mean having
Zubots home Grin and Hardenstein would be an embarrassment of riches.
But if you think Hartenstein, if you don't trust his health,
do you think he's going to be more expensive? But yeah,
or maybe okay, so he just wants more picks. Decide, Hey, like,
what if the offer was will take zubots, give you
back your pick, but we're gonna trade zoobots for two
other picks so that their net plus one. I don't
know what Sam Preston's thinking. I don't think they trade zoobots.
They've just been too good lately and he's too important
still to what they do. Let's get into trade targets
and needs. So you're looking at this roster right now,
mister Moransen. Yes, what do you view as their singular
biggest need that you would like to see them address?
Speaker 3: So it's frustrating because I actually do think they have
their biggest need on the roster, but it's just on
utilizing it enough. And that's John Collins. Like I want
a scoring forward. I want someone who is it's more
of like a plug and play guys who I think
he can be because you know, Kawhi is like your
primary score. You know, James Harden is your primary decision maker.
I want someone who can come in and just get
you buckets and ku who can help both Kawhi and
Harden to perhaps lessen their offensive load during this the
rest of this regular season. So like the interest Darren
John Collins, We've seen him before he was averaging like
what nineteen points last year in Jutah as well, he's
been averaging what in Atlanta. We saw him in several
years averaging you know, in that vicinity as well. So
like the need is present, which annoys me because that's
what you need. You need someone who can just go
in and take shots and efficiently so and by the way,
he too is efficient. He's not someone who is generally
inefficient like you can see this year as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahad can I just ask what what are
they not doing with him? I guess like if he's
playing twenty eight plus minutes a game, like you want
him to play thirty five?
Speaker 3: No, I want them to actually give him the fucking
ball a little bit more or set him up a
little bit more. I mean he's taking nine shots per
game in twenty seven minutes. I will concede. There are
issues like, for one, who the hell went in and
stole John Collins's rebounding capabilities? Where did that go? I
I am not sure, but like for him to be
this on the glass this year is not not that
is not like him whatsoever. But in terms of like
the offensive efficiency, he's a guy who can convert highly
on close to he can hit the three. We've seen
this before. You can also hit three FROs. Like, this
isn't a nobody NBA score yet for whatever reason, the Clippers,
after trading for him and giving up Norman Powell in
the process, we're like, oh yeah, Like for we're gonna
settle him for thirteen points a night and only use
him sparingly, Like no, you you can use him at
a higher degree than what you are. Like right now,
Kawhi Leonard has taken almost twenty shots spreaking that.
Speaker 2: That's not enough quite frankly.
Speaker 3: Right right, But like we were talking about injuries and whatnot,
Like it's pretty taxing on the NBA body to take
that many shots. You you wouldn't hate necessarily to just
shave a couple of them off and like perhaps funnel
some shots towards John Collins a little bit more so.
If he's not it fine. If you think he's a
bad fit, if you think he's not right for the roster,
that's that's fine. There's I can I can see why
they would make that argument. Then find someone who can
go into that salary slot and just give you points,
especially by playing off of James Harden than Kawhi Leonard.
That is what I think is one of their biggest needs.
Speaker 1: I think I do wonder how much of it just
has to do with this team when you look at
some of the secondary lineups. If he's not on the
court with James Hart James Harden, or if he's gonna
be on the floor with Aviatza Zubats or even if
he's gonna be on the floor with another big in general, Like,
I don't think that him is a pick and roll threat,
has ever been less of a like a thing. So
there's stuff they could do there, But I wonder what
is how do you make that shift? Is it more
about he needs to be the loan big or do
you need someone other than James Harden who you view
as kind of a pick and roll maestro with this team?
And I'm talking specifically more about him as a rim
runner rather than like he could you could drive and spray,
he could pick and pop.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can do that all day with anyone.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah you can. But and I think that's that's
also on him, Like this isn't just the Clippers, Like
Collins two also has to adjust to James Harden a
little bit better. So there's something there. I do think
he works well when he just gets shots within the
flow and he's prioritized. So there are certain players where
you can say, oh, he might not be great in
the pick and roll, he might not be great in
this and this and that, where those numbers actually fall
in as a secondary thing for me, where I'm looking
at a guy just getting prioritized for a game or two,
where you can just see his effort increase. You can
see his you know, his his eyes just get wide, like, oh, oh,
I'm going to get the ball tonight. I'm actually good. Cool,
I'm locked in. And I've called some Clippers games this
year where he's been really good, and I've also called
somewhere he's been pretty bad. And you can see the
notable difference is he just disengages when the ball doesn't
get to him for you know, a long stretch of
the time. So like and again, he shouldn't disengage. That's
that's obviously a thing, like that's on him. He's an
NPA player earning twenty seven million every single or this year,
like he should be engaged in every single play. That
is just literally his job. But at the same time,
I also on a human level, understand, you know, I'm
standing here in the corner with a thumb up my
ass for sixteen straight possessions. Why am I here? What
is what is the nature of my role here? Why?
Why am I just doing this? Why am I not
being used a little bit more? And in the games
where Tylu seems to say, all right, we're kind of
short on weapons, let's just let's give him the ball
a little bit more. Let's let's see if we can
squeeze more production out of him, he actually answers the bell.
So again, if it's not John Collins, find by me,
then pivot off of him and find someone who can
score the ball, and again who can play off of
Hart and Leonard just shave off some of their shots
to make it easier for them, because there are, after all,
their two primes.
Speaker 1: I almost feel like I would rather them get a
Norman Power replacement, still, like as opposed to a scoring forward.
Speaker 2: I mean, if the right if it's you know, Michael
Porter Junior would be.
Speaker 1: Interesting on this team to me as an example, but yeah,
but like without Bradley Beale being healthy, and just like
the same with Bogdanovich, you need that element of what
those players were supposed to be, which is why I've
kept coming back to could they make a play for
Anthony Simons?
Speaker 2: And their salary structure is so weird that you could
do so.
Speaker 1: Brook Lopez and Bogdown Bogdanovic are functionally expiring contracts, but
the Clippers would still need to trade like a third player.
So it's like, could you rope in Utah? And how
much does Utah need to take on what's left up?
But Bogdanovitch's deal there is so I mean, like, because
you could send Chris Paul out uh to Boston, Let's
just send Chris Paul to Boston with Brook Lopez. And
then let's from Boston's view, they're just getting out of
the tax that way, and they have Lopez could be
a rotation player, but they're losing Anthony Simon's I don't
know if they need compensation for that. But then the
Jazz would take on Bogdanovic and the Clippers get Anthony Simon,
so I think is a great fit.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna, you know, some.
Speaker 1: Do some of this stuff in Portland and he won't
have to do as much of it in La and
they've had, They've gotten away from it in Boston where
you don't have to focus on being a playmaker. But
during the non James Harden minutes, like he could just
do some of the basic stuff, like he could run
some pick and rolls, he could work off the dribble.
Speaker 2: I like that deal for the Clippers.
Speaker 1: I just don't know, like you have two seconds to
play around, Like I'm not giving up a first round
pick to do that. Does two seconds if you're Utah
get you to just take on the expiring money of Bogdanovic.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I think yes, because they have that massive trade exception
they could take him into. But as Boston for you
is Brook Lopez and Chris Paul and you're getting out
of the tax, and then the Clippers they would have
to They can convert Kobe Sanders at that point and
Jordan Miller as well, so they'll be roster wise. I
just don't know from Boston's perspective, gets them out of
the tax without giving up a draft pick.
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I'll.
Speaker 3: Say Boston would do it immediately if they get out
of the tax.
Speaker 1: Simon has been good and important for them, though, I
think you could look at it and say Lopez is
another center.
Speaker 2: He's not.
Speaker 1: He doesn't necessarily provide like the traditional haft, but he'll
stretch the floor like they like, or should be able
to stretch the floor. Chris Paul could take over some
of the ball handling him theory, and it's only for
the rest of this if you want him to even report.
But I think the justification for them as we get
out of the tax If you think Jason Tatum is
coming back, how important is Anthony Simon's is shooting? If
you have Sam Hawser, Tatum, White, Prichard Brown. So that's
my thought for the Clippers, but other trade targets. So
Michael Porter Junior, would you give up one of your
first round picks for him? As the Clippers?
Speaker 3: You know, the injury concern is there, but like this
is the Clippers. They live with injury concerns all the time.
So like that's just.
Speaker 2: Also been the past what like three years, He's been
pretty durable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he actually has. So I probably would because he
is the exact type of scoring forward who can play
off of ball dominant guys. I think that would be interesting. Again,
the Clippers will have to commit, Like again, like you
when you get a guy in there whose main skill
is scoring the basketball, you also have to understand how
to lean into that specific skill set, and then you
can go out and make you the argument that, well,
we already have two guys who can score the ball
at a high rate. Sure, but then you shouldn't trade
for a guy like that and make sure you carve
out those opportunities and those chances. Like if you trade
a draft pick for Michael Porter Junior and you have
him take nice shot nine or ten shots per game.
Speaker 1: Michael Porter Junior is not taken only nine or he's
he's wired.
Speaker 3: It's fair, you know what I mean? Though, Like if
you make him an afterthought like he would.
Speaker 1: He would get me thinking though, because I would like
to structure structure the deal so that I have to
give up John Collins.
Speaker 2: But it's just too hard.
Speaker 1: So I think if it's one first round pick John Collins,
and then you're throwing money in there because so let's
say bogdan Bogdanovic, and I think that gets you out
of the tax as like, like that is something as
the Clippers that would be intriguing to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too, Like, and I think you're right,
Like that is the type of scoring forward to put
next to Harden and Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's just I I really don't want them
to trade a first round pick, but that is Michael
Porter Junior has been He's in like the ninety seconds
percentile of from scratch shock creation efficiency this year. That
would be and obviously he gets scaled down next to
Harden and Kawhi, but we've seen him play in a
scaled down role before. And also just Harden gets to
become even more of a playmaker if Michael Porter Junior
and Kawhi Leonard are both there.
Speaker 3: So I will note you're right, we have seen him
in a scaled down version before and he hated it.
So that's also, like.
Speaker 1: I do wonder I don't know if he hated it,
but like they did ask him to do a lot
of movement stuff that maybe he just wasn't as intuitive
to him, and maybe the Clippers won't. But maybe is
Tyler going to be more inclined to try him out
in second units where he has the ball in his
hands more. He probably would be, especially if the Clippers
don't have like another ready made guard there, so that'd
be interesting Another name I have for them because I
just wanted to see them get more pop on the.
Speaker 2: Wings, Terren Shannon Junr.
Speaker 1: He's injured, but having him come off the bench is
just part of that wing rotation if he's healthy. Another
name I thought about. I just don't I'm not giving
up a first round pick for him, so it feels
like they won't get him. But Kobe White would make
some sense here too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he would because he would just integrate so
well off the ball. He's someone who I've always loved,
as you know, a theoretical fit next to Kawhi Leonard
for example, someone who is just able to play that
secondary churchy or role, which I think is interesting. And
I mean, the Bulls can't ask for much. We recorded
about the recorded Chicago's trade headline primer recently and we
laid out his situation there. The Bulls can't ask for much,
So would you even have to give up first.
Speaker 1: Look if they're gonna do it for the two seconds?
Like I'm done. I don't know if there's any player
that Chicago would have real interest in, like long term
that the Clippers have on their roster. Maybe one of
the two way guys, but if I'm the Clippers, I
don't know if I want to give up either one
of them. So yeah, but I would, I'd be curious.
I don't think the Bulls do it for the two seconds?
Speaker 2: What about you? I don't think they would do it again.
Speaker 3: It depends on how they go about this trade dead line,
Like are they going to shop Kobe White to you know,
to do these very good teams that are presumably going
to make headway in the in the playoffs and try
to get it get it, get into like a bidding
war for him. Maybe they will accept, you know, a
a first round for someone, in which case, yeah, the
Clippers will be hard pressed to match that because I
agree with you, that's tough to justify that type of
compensation for Kobe White. But if they don't get those
offers and they're risk losing him for nothing, I mean, yeah,
I'm not closing that door.
Speaker 2: What about RJ.
Speaker 3: Barrett?
Speaker 2: If you get him for the seconds?
Speaker 1: Souary like, okay, oh, I have a bigger swing coming
up for you too.
Speaker 3: Well. I mean all right, so I'm not crazy about
like the RJ. Barrett fit, because you know he's gonna
need the ball in his hands a whole.
Speaker 2: Lot like I will get.
Speaker 1: So what I will say is he doesn't anymore. But
you are right that I think you want to see
a ton of he You don't want to. I see
too much of him playing with Harden and Kawhi all
the time. But with that said, like his off ball
movement in Toronto and the way that he's been pushing
the pace for them after rebounds, Yes, the Clippers could
that is something they very much could use.
Speaker 3: I agree with that. Yes, So who's who's your big swing?
It costs you.
Speaker 1: This is gonna cost you both your first round picks,
by both your second round picks Trey Murphy for this team.
And the reason I think most people say, oh it's
cost more than two first round picks to get him,
We're talking twenty thirty twenty thirty two first round picks.
So these are You're not getting an immediate payoff there,
but those are crown jewel type assets.
Speaker 3: Man. Like, Look, I think I do agree with you
on one thing here. Now is the time to actually
make the play for him, because the Pelicans sting. They
have developed a track record for making awful traits. And
that's not me taking a chat at them. Like, yes,
it is, but it's correct, like it's not a lie,
you know what I mean, Like they do have a
recent track record of making shitty trades, So now is
the time to actually see if you can go in
and drop them silly like it is so and.
Speaker 2: Would that be a would you call that a highway
robbery deal? Though?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would two unprotected picks that far out, Okay,
I'm just I'm genuinely asking.
Speaker 3: So the reason that I think it is is because
Trey Murphy and the year of our NBA year here,
twenty twenty six is like the prototypical ceiling racing wing
like high volume from three, highly efficient in terms of
getting to the free throw line, not a bad defender, rebounds,
moves the ball. He's cost controlled in terms like I
don't he's not on a bad deal whatsoever. He's not
a good deal and for a while too, right, I
want to say another two or three years at least.
Speaker 1: Uh three, I think this is the first year for
the extension, right yeah, yeah, So like again, twenty five
million this year, twenty seven, next twenty nine, forty one
for a guy who is a high end starter like all.
Speaker 3: Star what our star all sar Adjason player. Hell yeah,
Like that's okay, he should cost you a lot. But like,
if it's the Pelicans you're negotiating with, start lower, start lower.
Speaker 1: Here's another one. Would you give up a first round
pick for Michal Bridges?
Speaker 3: I mean the Knicks gave up four, right, so.
Speaker 1: They gave up more than that. It was a control
of control of six. It's control of six or five
whatever it was. I think it was six though with
the swap.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's plucking play. We know that he's durable,
we know that he's getting you know, it's a it's
an interesting one. So let me ask you this. Do
you think because of how much he's been available that
it increases the risk of him, you know, reaching sort
of the the height of that where it's like, now
he's played, you know, half a million straight in BA games.
Speaker 1: I I am an alarmist, So I absolutely think in
those terms. If you say he's played in a thousand
consecutive games, my first thought is, well, his treads are
about to blow.
Speaker 2: Like that's just that's my that's my first thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where I'm at too, Like six hundred
and three games, thirty three plus minutes, he's about to
turn thirty.
Speaker 1: Sh It's I honestly think he's become a little He's been,
he was mad, he's been maddening to watch lately. But
I think he's become a little underrated. He's gonna be
like the fifty fifth highest paid player in the NBA
next year. So people that are upset about his extension,
I just I don't get it. I think I think
that the Knicks misvalued him, and now we're looking at
him through that lens of well, he needed to be
there's their second or third best player, and the problem
of late is that he hasn't even really been their
fourth best player, which is a different conversation. But if
you put him in LA with Kawhi and James Harden
in theory, I think you're getting a different McHale Bridges
than you have because the Knicks right now need him
to do certain things that he shouldn't have to do. Defensively,
offensively you're not gonna have to do if everyone's healthy
in LA. Now we're always just one Kawhi Leonard update
away from that changing. But so I think if I
were them, if the Knicks acts for both first round picks.
I don't know if I would do it. If it
was one, I might consider it.
Speaker 3: I don't know why the Knicks would, but yes, if
I can get him for one, I wouldn't hate it.
Speaker 2: They might want draft picks.
Speaker 1: They think he's more valuable, like that's more of a
maybe they think Mitchell Robinson's more valuable to them, and
that's the route they're going to go. What about Now,
this eats into your twenty twenty seven cap space, but
I think you can agree he'll be on an expiring contract.
Speaker 2: Then you can figure it out later.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna cost you a first, it's money and
you can send them a ton of expiring money.
Speaker 3: Drew Holliday, Oh okay, like ceiling Race or defensively super
Old like that kind of fits.
Speaker 1: The timeline played really well and he's an offensive caretaker
in the non Pardon minutes.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 3: It depends on the price. I would say it is
the price name.
Speaker 1: I think just name the matching salary that it takes
to get there, and then you have to give up.
You have those seconds to play around with.
Speaker 3: So that's what, yeah, that I would do, like, as
long as I'm not giving up the first round equity.
Speaker 2: I've seen some people suggest DeMar deroze in.
Speaker 1: I don't like him for this team, right, I agree
with that.
Speaker 3: I mean a shot clock eating mid range guy. I
get it.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's what about ben Nicmathrin or do
you not want him on this I'm assuming the cost
wouldn't be a first round pick because of his upcoming
free agency.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't necessarily love the fit. I think.
Speaker 2: I think I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I want someone who's going to operate quicker if we're
if we're going for a score, like, give me Michael
Porter Junior, give me Anthony Simons, those types of.
Speaker 3: Kobe White over Benic Mathrine as well.
Speaker 1: Frank, Yeah, Now what about Naji Marshall?
Speaker 3: Hmm? Okay?
Speaker 1: And can I can I propose something else? A bigger
deal where you're getting both Nausei Marshall and Max Christie.
But it is costing you first round picks.
Speaker 3: Okay, but like both are one.
Speaker 2: Man? I don't it's is it both?
Speaker 1: I mean, Max Christie's cheap for another year and then
he's gonna need to get paid.
Speaker 3: And he's good, like he's really good, He's really good.
Nashi Marshall, What about how about a pick?
Speaker 1: Well, actually, let me make sure that Dallas has a
pick that year to swap. Yeah, what about a pick
and a swap? Okay, so we're going twenty thirty and
then twenty thirty one swap?
Speaker 3: That feels more realistic to.
Speaker 2: Me, does Dalla? I'm not. I just want to double Dallas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, does not have a twenty thirty, does not have
control over twenty Actually they might prefer well, again, picking
a swap, so that would be that'd be interesting, Dallas.
Speaker 3: I don't think we're still saying no, because I mean, yeah,
Max Christie, I assume they've sort of Pacha Toll as
a Cooper flag, you know, long term mainstay, right like.
Speaker 1: Because of this show, which is the way he's shooting
and defending this year. I totally get. I'm just looking
at it as he has that player option in twenty seven.
He's gonna cost He's not gonna cost eight point eight
million dollars and you can't extend him. That's that's one
of those deals that aren't going to be extendable. That's
one I did not have my head coming in.
Speaker 2: I just came up with it. You're welcome, everybody.
Speaker 1: I've got some just low end stuff like maybe do
they take a flyer and carry Trent Junior if you're
looking for some perimeter juice. But unless you have any
other names, I don't know that I have a ton
that's the scoring forward route is interesting. Michael Porter Junior
was the one that I thought about for some long.
Speaker 2: I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like if depending on the day you asked me,
I'll tell you yes or no, I said yesterday, I'll
probably say no tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Whereas we would say yes every single date's Trey Murphy
like that is the type of guy who is like
a ceiling racer for this team.
Speaker 1: And I ultimately don't don't think if we're making predictions,
I think something like we mapped out the Anthony Simon's trade,
or do they try and take a look at Corey
Kispert or something like. It feels like they're more likely
to do something on that level than trade a first
round pick.
Speaker 2: If I had to guess, I.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't hate a Corey Kisbert acquisition.
Speaker 1: There you love Corey Kisberg for some ungodly reason that
I said the recently you can score at the rim, sir, Yeah, yes,
But are they are they self created. Rim looks moret
not always, but he does convert. My case rests with that.
I actually kind of like the Drew Holliday scenario. I
don't know if Portland would be into it, but expiring
money and you got to worry about like paying some
of your other guys coming up.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't hate it.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else or are you ready to tell
our audience where they could find you in all your
great work?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do not. I'm honestly impressed by us that
we went forty five minutes on the Clippers on this one.
Speaker 1: Well, we went on the twenty twenty five trade deadline tangent.
We talked about Kawhi Leonard with regards to the trade
deadline for just someone own reason shout out Kobe Sanders
and Jordan Miller got there FaceTime. I want to know
what other National podcast right now is giving you a
few minutes on the impact of Kobe Sanders and Jordan Miller.
Speaker 2: That's all I want to know.
Speaker 3: That is fair. Now, you can find my work over
at Yahoo Sports and you can listen to the NP podcast.
If you understand Danish, you can catch my podcast buzzer
beater and also catch me calling games on HBO Max.
I'm pretty available.
Speaker 1: Rate review, subscribe, do all the things Apple Spotify. Written
reviews and ratings help us a ton people discover us.
So get back on the grind of writing reviews. That's
saying nice things about Grant mort and myself.
Speaker 2: That'd be great.
Speaker 1: Until next time, and as always, we mout the shout
out to the one, the only, the indelible.
Speaker 2: They should probably sign him to play with the Clippers. Christer,
Frank La Tina