1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So picture this. It's the summer of twenty nineteen, right, 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,000 the world is already feeling a little bit strange. But 3 00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:13,880 the Internet, in its infinite wisdom, decides, you know what, 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,439 we can make this weirder. 5 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:17,359 Speaker 2: Oh, I remember this like it was yesterday. 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: A Facebook event pops up, and at first it's just 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,559 a joke, it's a meme. It's titled storm Area fifty one. 8 00:00:23,719 --> 00:00:26,120 They can't stop all of us. 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,879 Speaker 2: And the premise was, I mean, it was just pure 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,600 Internet absurdity. 11 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: Old absolute Internet gold. 12 00:00:31,079 --> 00:00:33,399 Speaker 2: The plan, if you can even call it, that was 13 00:00:33,399 --> 00:00:35,240 to Naro run past the guards. 14 00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: Yes, the Naruto run for anyone who you know, maybe 15 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,280 isn't familiar. That's running with your arms just flailing straight 16 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,439 behind you like a character from a Japanese. 17 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: Anime, because apparently that makes you move faster than bullets. 18 00:00:46,799 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: Obviously, it sounds ridiculous, it is ridiculous. But then something 19 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,520 happens that I don't think anyone really expected. 20 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: It blew up. 21 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: It went completely viral. Millions of people and I mean 22 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,119 millions click going on this event, and it suddenly stops 23 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:04,040 feeling like a joke and starts feeling well. It starts 24 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:04,920 feeling like a movement. 25 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 2: It was this really fascinating, kind of bizarre moment in 26 00:01:08,079 --> 00:01:10,840 social history, right. Yeah, you had this perfect intersection of 27 00:01:11,239 --> 00:01:15,079 like gen z Internet humor colliding with with what with 28 00:01:15,359 --> 00:01:20,400 very real, very lethal Cold War era military. 29 00:01:19,879 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: Infrastructure, and that collision that's exactly where we're starting today. 30 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:25,879 Welcome everyone to Thrilling Threads. 31 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:26,799 Speaker 2: It's great to be here. 32 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm your host, and today we are pulling on what 33 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:33,000 might just be the biggest, the most tangled, the most 34 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,640 controversial string in the entire tapestry of American conspiracy theories. 35 00:01:37,719 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 2: And I'm here to you know, hopefully help untangle it 36 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,359 a little bit, or at least to make sure we 37 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,439 don't get completely lost in the Nevada desert. 38 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,359 Speaker 1: It's a real possibility. Today we're working from a transcript 39 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:49,640 of a History Channel documentary called Inside Area fifty one. 40 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,879 We were going to look past the memes, you know, 41 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:55,120 past the Naruto runners, and try to understand the terrifying 42 00:01:55,159 --> 00:01:58,319 reality of the most secretive place in America. We're going 43 00:01:58,359 --> 00:02:02,200 to talk about the fortress, the physicist, and of course 44 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:03,640 the saucers. 45 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,079 Speaker 2: It's a story that really touches on everything. It's about 46 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:10,120 national security. It's about erased identities, and it gets to 47 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,520 that fundamental question, are we alone in the universe? 48 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: Or maybe more to the point. 49 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,759 Speaker 2: Does the government know we're not alone? And have they 50 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,120 just been I don't know, keeping the proof locked in 51 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:24,319 a filing cabinet somewhere for the last seventy plus years. 52 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: That's the question. So let's go back to that summer 53 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,719 twenty nineteen, the storm Area fifty one event. It's everywhere, 54 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:32,680 It's on Twitter, it's on the news. My friends are 55 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,439 talking about it. Everyone I know is just laughing. 56 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,039 Speaker 2: About it, right, a huge joke. But there was one 57 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,199 group of people who were definitely not laughing, not at all, 58 00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:45,080 the United States Air Force. They were not amused, not 59 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:45,599 in the. 60 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: Slightest, not even a little chuckle. 61 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: And you have to see it from their perspective. What 62 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,000 started as, I mean, let's be honest, in an internet 63 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,960 shit post. Yeah, it transformed very quickly into a genuine 64 00:02:56,039 --> 00:02:59,280 national security crisis for them. How so, well, put yourself 65 00:02:59,319 --> 00:03:01,759 in the shoes of the base commander at Groom Lake. 66 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:06,719 You're sitting inside a facility that for decades officially didn't 67 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:10,919 even exist, and now you're seeing millions of people online 68 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,960 pledging to physically overrun your perimeter. 69 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: You can't just assume they're all kidding. 70 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: You absolutely cannot. You have to plan for the worst 71 00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:20,439 case scenario. You have to take it seriously. 72 00:03:20,759 --> 00:03:23,159 Speaker 1: And according to our source material, they took it very, 73 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,439 very seriously. They didn't just you know, put out a 74 00:03:25,479 --> 00:03:27,080 press release and hope it would all blow over. 75 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: No, they mobilized. The source is explicit about this. They 76 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,960 sent in reinforcements. But here's the part that really, I mean, 77 00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:36,199 it stopped me cold when I read it. What's that 78 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,199 The source states that personnel at the base were authorized 79 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:41,639 to use deadly force. 80 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:42,879 Speaker 1: Deadly force. 81 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: Let that just sink in for a second. The authorization 82 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,560 to kill American citizens over a meme. 83 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: That is just it's insane to me, the idea that 84 00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:55,120 you could get shot because you wanted to see an alien. 85 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:59,159 Speaker 2: And that's the paradox, right, That's the stark contrast that 86 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,560 defines this in higher topic, and it's what we really 87 00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:05,039 have to unpack today. On one side, you have this 88 00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:08,479 fun pop Kota thing, you know, cartoons, t shirts, internet jokes, 89 00:04:08,919 --> 00:04:12,319 and on the other side, you have highly trained soldiers 90 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,560 with automatic weapons who have been given permission to end 91 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:17,639 your life to protect a patch of dirt. 92 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: And the logic of the meme was they can't stop 93 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,519 all of us, the logic of a zombie swarm. 94 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the idea, kind of safety in numbers, 95 00:04:26,959 --> 00:04:29,800 that a huge crowd could just overwhelm the security. 96 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: But they can stop all of us, can't they Well. 97 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,199 Speaker 2: They absolutely can't, and they would have, there's no doubt 98 00:04:34,199 --> 00:04:36,319 in my mind. So what ended up happening, Well, in 99 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,600 the end, the whole thing kind of fizzled out. Crowd wise, 100 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,279 A few thousand people showed up for some festivals in 101 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,399 the nearby towns, like. 102 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,519 Speaker 1: An alien themed Coachella. 103 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: Exactly, and only a handful, maybe a couple hundred people 104 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,720 actually went up to the gates. But the military's reaction, 105 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,680 the mobilization, it served as a huge stress test for 106 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,959 their protocols and. 107 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: It revealed just how serious they are. 108 00:04:59,079 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: It was a very public reminder that this is not 109 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,240 a tourist attraction. This is a fortress. 110 00:05:04,759 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about that fortress. Let's unpack the 111 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,199 security because the source material describes it as an impregnable box. 112 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,399 And I think most people, myself included, probably picture you know, 113 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:20,360 a tall chain link fence with some barbed wire, and that's. 114 00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 2: Just not it at all. Functionally impregnable is the phrase 115 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,680 used in the documentary. We are not talking about a 116 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:27,839 simple fence and a padlock. 117 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:29,199 Speaker 1: Okay, so what are we talking about. 118 00:05:29,399 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: We're talking about a layered system of defense. It starts 119 00:05:33,639 --> 00:05:36,879 miles and I mean miles before you can even see 120 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:37,920 a building or a runway. 121 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,519 Speaker 1: So it's not just the base itself. 122 00:05:39,639 --> 00:05:43,079 Speaker 2: No, the perimeter is huge. You have the obvious stuff. First, 123 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,519 you'll see signs, warning signs telling you that deadly force 124 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,600 is authorized. Then you'll hit checkpoints, you see guards and trucks. 125 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:49,439 But that's just the. 126 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: Visible layer, the human layer, right right. 127 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: Then you have the technology. Our source specifically mentions motion detectors. 128 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: So like a light goes on if you walk past it. 129 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: It's way more sophisticated than that. Think buried seismic sensors. 130 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,079 These are sensors in the ground that can apparently tell 131 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,759 the difference between the footsteps of a human being and 132 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,720 say a coyote or a jackrabbit walking by. Seriously, they're 133 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:14,360 scattered all across the terrain, hidden in the scrub brush. 134 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,079 You step off the road and somewhere miles away, a 135 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:21,399 light blanks on a console inside a security center. They 136 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:23,680 know you're there instantly. That's terrifying. 137 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: And what about the guys in the white pickup trucks, 138 00:06:26,519 --> 00:06:27,639 the Camo dudes. 139 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,519 Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, the famous Camo dude. 140 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: They're legendary and the lure of this place. 141 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: They are. They're private security contractors. They drive these unmarked 142 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,240 white pickups, usually Jeeps or F one fifties with government plates. 143 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:42,759 They wear full camouflage and they are heavily armed. 144 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:45,639 Speaker 1: And what do they do do They talk to you. 145 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: Never, that's the thing. They just watch you. They'll park 146 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:50,079 on our ridge overlooking you. They'll film you with long 147 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,360 lens cameras. Their job is intimidation. It's to make you 148 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:56,240 feel so uncomfortable that you just turn around and leave. 149 00:06:56,519 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: It's a psychological barrier as much as a physical one. 150 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:01,759 Speaker 2: Completely. And it's not just surveillance from the ground. It's 151 00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:06,120 from both too, satellites constant satellite monitoring. They're watching everything 152 00:07:06,079 --> 00:07:08,360 to one undred and four seven. But for me, the 153 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,680 most the most stifling part of the security description, and 154 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,360 this is something that pilots really get, is the airspace. 155 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: They call it the box, right, the box. 156 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,759 Speaker 2: It's this large chunk of restricted airspace. It is a 157 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:23,519 no fly zone of the absolute highest order. It's officially 158 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,720 designated R forty eighth eight N. 159 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: And it's so sensitive that, what did the source say? 160 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,680 Even our own military pilots can't fly in there. 161 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,759 Speaker 2: That's right. Even pilots from the nearby Nellis Air Force Base, 162 00:07:34,839 --> 00:07:37,399 which is this huge training ground for the best fighter 163 00:07:37,439 --> 00:07:40,759 pilots in the world, they are forbidden from entering the box. 164 00:07:40,879 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: So an F twenty two pilot, a US Air Force pilot, 165 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,519 can't fly over a US Air Force base. 166 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: Not unless they are specifically read into whatever programs are 167 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,639 happening at Groom Lake and are assigned to fly there. 168 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:54,120 If you're just a pilot training at NELLISA for a 169 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:57,480 huge exercise like Red Flag, and you accidentally clip the 170 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,720 edge of the box, your training exercise is over immediately, 171 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,759 you're ordered to land, you are seriously debriefed. It is 172 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,160 a potential career ending mistake. Wow, that's how serious it is. 173 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,759 It's a black hole on the aviation map. 174 00:08:12,959 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: It really paints this picture of total isolation. You can't 175 00:08:16,199 --> 00:08:19,199 drive in, you can't walk in without being detected, you 176 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,000 can't fly over it. It's like it's been surgically removed 177 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:22,839 from the United States. 178 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:25,439 Speaker 2: It's a sovereign state of secrecy, as you said. And 179 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,000 then there's the final layer, which might be the strongest one, 180 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,959 the human factor, the people who work there, the engineers, 181 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,080 the scientists, the janitors. 182 00:08:32,639 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: The cooks, because obviously thousands of people do go in 183 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,440 and out of there every day. 184 00:08:36,519 --> 00:08:39,039 Speaker 2: They do, and the source mentions. They all have to 185 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,480 sign non disclosure agreements, which you know is pretty standard 186 00:08:42,519 --> 00:08:43,879 for sensitive government work. 187 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,759 Speaker 1: But these aren't your typical NDAs. 188 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:48,639 Speaker 2: No, this isn't like you can't talk about the next iPhone. 189 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:52,080 These are binding for your entire life, for life, for life, 190 00:08:52,519 --> 00:08:55,960 and they come with severe penalties. We're talking serious prison time, 191 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,960 crippling finds the complete loss of your government pension. 192 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:02,919 Speaker 1: So it's not just a piece of paper, it's a threat. 193 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,879 Speaker 2: It creates a psychological fortress that's just as strong as 194 00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:09,039 the physical one. The people on the inside cannot talk 195 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,639 to the people on the outside, not to their spouses, 196 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,279 not to their kids, not even on their deathbeds. 197 00:09:14,639 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: That sounds incredibly lonely to have this massive central part 198 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,279 of your life be a complete black hole to everyone 199 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:22,120 you love, it. 200 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: Is, and what it does on a macro level is 201 00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:28,480 create a perfect vacuum of information. And as we know, 202 00:09:29,039 --> 00:09:32,840 nature abhors a vacuum where there is no official information, 203 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,960 speculation and conspiracy will rush in to fill that void. 204 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,240 If the government refuses to tell us what they're doing 205 00:09:40,279 --> 00:09:41,200 in the box. 206 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,879 Speaker 1: Our imaginations will invent something to put in there exactly. 207 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,639 And that speculation, that's what brings us to the origins 208 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,639 of this right, this ghost base, because it wasn't always 209 00:09:49,639 --> 00:09:51,919 the center of the alien universe, not at all. Back 210 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,399 in the early nineteen fifties, it was just dirt. 211 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: Just a long, flat, dry lake bed called Groom Lake. 212 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,879 It's a hostile environment. It's desolate. The closest town is Rachel, Nevada, 213 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,759 which to this day has a population in the what 214 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:05,799 double digits. 215 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: It's the definition of the middle of nowhere, and that's 216 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,840 by design. I found the detail about the name fascinating 217 00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:16,000 Area fifty one. It sounds so inherently mysterious. It makes 218 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,960 you ask, well, where are areas one through fifty? 219 00:10:19,039 --> 00:10:21,519 Speaker 2: Did something happened to them? Yeah? It sounds very sci fi, 220 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,080 but the reality, according to the source, is much more. Well, 221 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,519 it's bureaucratic, it's boring, it is surprisingly mundane. It comes 222 00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:33,759 from an old Atomic Energy Commission map from the nineteen fifties. 223 00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:36,840 The whole Nevada test site where they were detonating nuclear 224 00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:41,320 bombs was divided into a grid system for administrative purposes. 225 00:10:40,879 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: Like a big piece of graph paper over the desert. 226 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,039 Speaker 2: Exactly, and the location of Groom Lake just happened to 227 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,879 fall inside the square designated Area fifty. 228 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: One, such as a map coordinate. 229 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,399 Speaker 2: It's a clerical designation. It could have just as easily 230 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,320 been Area twelve or Area eighty four, but Area fifty 231 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,879 one is the one that's stuck. It's a great reminder 232 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:01,480 that sometimes the most terrifying thing have the most boring origins. 233 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: So early fifties, it's just a grid on a map, 234 00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:07,879 but then the source points to a specific year, nineteen 235 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:09,879 fifty five. That's when everything changes. 236 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: Nineteen fifty five is the turning point. Before that, it's 237 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,320 a dry lake bed. After that it becomes a hub 238 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,279 of top secret activity. And this is where the UFO 239 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,320 hysteria really begins to take root in that area. 240 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: But for reasons that are actually ironically based. 241 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: In reality, completely grounded in hard physics and top secret engineering. 242 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,759 Speaker 1: Okay, let's walk through this because this is one of 243 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:35,480 those moments where everything clicks into place. The locals, the 244 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,080 ranchers in places like Rachel, they start seeing things in the. 245 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:44,639 Speaker 2: Sky, strange lights, aircraft behaving in ways that seem impossible. 246 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,399 Speaker 1: And flying at altitudes that shouldn't be possible. 247 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: That's the key. They're seeing these things at fifty thousand feet, 248 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:52,759 sixty thousand feet, sometimes even higher. Now you have to 249 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:54,799 put yourself back in that area. In nineteen fifty five 250 00:11:54,799 --> 00:11:57,960 and nineteen fifty five, your commercial airliners, your DC six 251 00:11:58,039 --> 00:12:01,679 is your constellations. They're flying in maybe twenty thousand feet 252 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,440 on a good day. Even the military fighter jets at 253 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:05,879 the time didn't cruise that high. 254 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: So imagine you're a rancher. You're out checking on your 255 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,279 cattle at dusk. You look up and you see this 256 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,279 glint of silver way way higher than any plane you've 257 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:14,039 ever seen before. 258 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 2: And it's not just the height, it's the way it's lit. 259 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,879 There's this phenomenon called the twilight phenomenon. Okay, because the 260 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:23,080 earth is curved. When the sun is already set for 261 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,000 you on the ground, it's still shining brightly up at 262 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,720 sixty thousand or seventy thousand feet. 263 00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: Ah, so it can be pitch black where you're standing, but. 264 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: The aircraft way up there is still fully illuminated by 265 00:12:33,879 --> 00:12:34,200 the sun. 266 00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: So what does that look like from the ground. 267 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: It looks like a glowing orb, a fireball, a silver 268 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,399 disc that seems to be generating its own light. 269 00:12:43,039 --> 00:12:47,399 Speaker 1: So the rancher sees this glowing object moving at incredible 270 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,840 speed at an impossible altitude. He knows it's not a 271 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:51,960 United Airlines flight. 272 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,919 Speaker 2: He's pretty sure the Air Force doesn't have anything they 273 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:54,360 can do that. 274 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: So his brain, through a process of elimination, goes to 275 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:01,240 the only other explanation that makes sense to him. 276 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 2: It has to be from another planet. Martians. 277 00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:08,399 Speaker 1: It's a perfectly logical conclusion if you're missing a key variable. 278 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 2: And the missing variable was the U two spyplane, the 279 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:16,320 Dragon Lady, and later its successor, the A twelve ox Cart, 280 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,519 which evolved into the SR seventy one Blackbird. These were 281 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,360 top secret CIA and Air Force reconnaissance projects being tested 282 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:25,159 out of groom. 283 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,039 Speaker 1: Like and they could fly that high. 284 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:30,159 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the YouTube was specifically designed to fly at 285 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,799 seventy thousand feet. That was its whole purpose to be 286 00:13:32,879 --> 00:13:35,440 high enough to avoid Soviet surface to air missiles while 287 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,159 it took pictures. 288 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: But the government couldn't exactly put out a press release saying, hey, everyone, 289 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,360 don't worry about the weird lights, it's just our brand new, 290 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,399 super secret spy plane that we're using to photograph Russian 291 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:47,080 missile sites. 292 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: They were completely stuck. Admitting the truth would have compromised 293 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,240 a vital national security asset. So when all these reports 294 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,679 of UFO started flooding in from Nevada. 295 00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: Did you just let the alien theory run? 296 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: In a way, it was the perfect cover store. Think 297 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,679 about it. If the Soviets hear rumors about flying saucers 298 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,639 over Nevada, they'll probably just dismiss it as crazy American hysteria. 299 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: But if they hear credible rumors of a high altitude 300 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,720 reconnaissance aircraft. 301 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,399 Speaker 2: That's a massive intelligence failure for them. So the UFO 302 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,759 story was actually beneficial to the secrecy of the U 303 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:18,639 two program. 304 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: So they basically weaponize the conspiracy theory against their enemies, 305 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:22,480 or at the. 306 00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 2: Very least, their silence and their clumsy denials just poured 307 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,919 fuel on the fire. And our source draws a direct 308 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,399 line from this back to the Roswell incident in nineteen 309 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:33,960 forty seven. 310 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,919 Speaker 1: Ah, the original sin. 311 00:14:36,159 --> 00:14:39,639 Speaker 2: Roswell is the grandfather of all this distrust. It's set 312 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:40,240 the precedent. 313 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:41,879 Speaker 1: We have to talk about that for a second. The 314 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000 classic government flip flop. 315 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: It was a public relations disaster that still haunts the 316 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,120 military to this day. In July nineteen forty seven, something 317 00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:54,720 crashes in the desert near Roswell, New Mexico. The Army 318 00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:58,240 Air Forces. This is the actual military, not some tabloid paper. 319 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,120 They issue an official press. 320 00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: And the headline was incredible. 321 00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:05,679 Speaker 2: The headline in the local paper read RAAF captures flying 322 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,679 saucer on ranch in Roswell region. 323 00:15:07,799 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: They used the words flying saucer in an official capacity. 324 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: They did for about twenty four hours. The official position 325 00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:15,559 of the United States government was yep, we got one. 326 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:19,320 And then you can just imagine the panic in the 327 00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:24,279 higher echelons. They scrambled. They retracted the story immediately. They 328 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,879 held a press conference, brought out some debris that looked 329 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:31,759 like tinfoil and wooden sticks, and said, sorry, everyone, our mistake. 330 00:15:32,279 --> 00:15:34,559 It was just a weather balloon, which I. 331 00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:36,559 Speaker 1: Mean, even if it really was a weather. 332 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: Balloon, which is a whole other thrilling thread for another day. 333 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: It just looks incredibly suspicious. You don't confuse the spaceship 334 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,399 with a weather balloon unless you're either completely incompetent or 335 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,720 you're lying exactly. 336 00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: And it taught the American public a very specific, very 337 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,799 powerful lesson, which is the government might find aliens, and 338 00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:57,679 if they do, they will lie to you about it. 339 00:15:57,799 --> 00:15:59,840 They'll say one thing one day and change their s 340 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:00,679 the next. 341 00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: So fast forward to the fifties, the weird lights start 342 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,320 appearing over Groom Lake. The government denies everything or just 343 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,279 stays silent, and. 344 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: The public immediately falls back on what we can call 345 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,559 the roswell president. They just assume it's another cover up. 346 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: And the incredible irony is that it was a cover up. 347 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: Yes, that's what's so wild. It was a cover up. 348 00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:22,600 It was just a cover up of Cold War spy technology, 349 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:26,080 not little green men. But from the outside, the behavior, 350 00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:29,080 the secrecy that denials it looks exactly the same. 351 00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: So this creates the perfect curtle soil. The distrust is there, 352 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,639 the mystery is there, the box is sealed tight, and 353 00:16:35,679 --> 00:16:38,840 then decades later, someone finally walks out of that box 354 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:40,120 and decides to light a match. 355 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: May fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine. This is the beginning of 356 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,799 what we could call the Lazarian era. 357 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,559 Speaker 1: Bob Lazar the physicist. This is the man who single 358 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,559 handedly transformed the public perception of Area fifty one. Before him, 359 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,120 it was a secret base. Maybe they built spyplanes there. 360 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,240 After him, it was the place they keep the alien spaceships. 361 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: It is truly difficult to over see date the impact 362 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,120 of his story. He goes on local Las Vegas news, 363 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,519 a station called KLAS TV, interviewed by a journalist named George. 364 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,559 Speaker 1: Knapp, and at first he's in shadow, right, he's using 365 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:10,160 a fake. 366 00:17:10,039 --> 00:17:12,839 Speaker 2: Name, right, he used the pseudonym Dennis. But eventually he 367 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,680 comes forward reveals his real name, Bob Lazar. And his 368 00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:19,480 claim is so incredibly specific and audacious. He didn't just 369 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:21,240 say I saw some weird lights. 370 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,559 Speaker 1: No, he said I worked there. I punched a clock. 371 00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:26,759 Speaker 2: He made it sound like a nine to five job, 372 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,240 which made it so much more believable to some people. 373 00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:31,960 And he claimed he didn't work at the main Area 374 00:17:32,039 --> 00:17:36,200 fifty one facility, but at a separate, even more secret base. 375 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: Nearby, a place he called S four Sector. 376 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,839 Speaker 2: Four or S four. He claimed those located south of 377 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:44,799 Groom Lake, built directly into the side of the Papoose 378 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:48,680 Mountain Range. He described these hangar doors that were camouflaged 379 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:51,960 to sand and rock to perfectly match the mountain side 380 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,960 so they'd be invisible to spy satellites. 381 00:17:54,279 --> 00:17:57,079 Speaker 1: And his job title. What was his job description? According 382 00:17:57,079 --> 00:17:58,359 to the source, his job. 383 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: He claimed, was to reverse engine your alien anti gravity 384 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:02,519 propulsion system. 385 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: Just another day at the office. 386 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: You know, pretty standard stuff. 387 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,079 Speaker 1: I love the specificity of the inventory he describes. He 388 00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:10,759 doesn't just say we had, you know, a crashed saucer. 389 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,240 He claims the United States Navy was in possession of 390 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,160 nine distinct alien spacecraft. 391 00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:20,319 Speaker 2: Nine that's not a single crash retrieval. That implies a fleet. 392 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:23,880 It implies some kind of ongoing program, maybe an archaeological discovery, 393 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,839 maybe a trade. He said he didn't know where they 394 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,680 came from, only that they were there, and he. 395 00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: Was assigned to work on one particular. 396 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,279 Speaker 2: Craft, the one he called the sport model. 397 00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:37,839 Speaker 1: The sport Model, It sounds like he's describing a car like, Yeah, 398 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,200 I was working on the eighty nine Sport Model saucer. 399 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,079 Tell us what he said it looked like. 400 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: He described it as looking exactly like your stereotypical flying saucer, 401 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,240 and the source has this great quote from him where 402 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,000 he says, it looks like anything you'd see in a cartoon. 403 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:57,799 Speaker 1: So smooth, metallic disc shaped exactly, but with no seams, 404 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,799 no rivets, no bolts. 405 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: He said, it looked like it had been injection molded 406 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,480 or grown from a single piece of wax. There were 407 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,119 no sharp edges. Everything was smoothly rounded. 408 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,519 Speaker 1: Now this is where it gets interesting for me, because 409 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:12,480 a skeptic would hear that and say, of course, it 410 00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:14,960 looks like a cartoon. He's just making it up based 411 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,039 on fifties B movies, right. But a believer would say, well, 412 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:20,440 maybe the cartoons and the movies look like that, because 413 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,920 that's what people have been genuinely seeing for decades, and 414 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:23,839 that's what they've been drawing. 415 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,599 Speaker 2: It's the classic chicken or the egg of saucer design. 416 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,920 But Lazarre goes much deeper than just the shape. He 417 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,880 gets into the technology. He talks about the propulsion. 418 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,759 Speaker 1: System, the anti matter reactor, the. 419 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 2: Antimatter reactor, which in nineteen eighty nine sounds like pure 420 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,119 star trek. 421 00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:41,319 Speaker 1: It still does, really it does, but. 422 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:43,799 Speaker 2: He tries to ground it in physics. He talks about 423 00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:47,960 a fuel source, a super heavy stable element element one fifteen, 424 00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:48,599 and back. 425 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: In eighty nine, element one fifteen was just. 426 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: Theoretical, completely theoretical. I hadn't been synthesized in a lab, 427 00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,799 it hadn't even been officially named yet. But Lazar was 428 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:00,440 describing it. He said, this element was a fuel. Bombard 429 00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:03,799 it with protons. It transmutes into element one sixteen, which 430 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,160 immediately decays, releasing antimatter. 431 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: And that reaction creates a gravity wave. 432 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: That's his claim, a gravity wave that could be amplified 433 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,519 and focused. He claimed the craft didn't fly using aerodynamics 434 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,680 like a plane with wings or vectored thrust like a rocket. 435 00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,720 It flew by creating its own gravitational. 436 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Field, so it would essentially fall in the direction it 437 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:24,400 wanted to go. 438 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: It would bend space time in front of it and 439 00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:27,519 just ride the wave. 440 00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: Like putting a bowling ball on a trampoline. 441 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: That is the perfect analogy. The reactor is the bowling ball, 442 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,319 and it creates a distortion in the fabric of space, 443 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,920 and the craft just slides down into that distortion. 444 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,559 Speaker 1: And what about the pilots. You can't have this high 445 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:42,160 tech car without a driver. 446 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 2: He said he never saw one in person, but he 447 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,319 described being given these briefing documents to read as part 448 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,039 of his job, and he claimed these manuals contained information 449 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,359 and even images of the aliens. 450 00:20:54,039 --> 00:20:55,799 Speaker 1: Themselves, your original pilots. 451 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,839 Speaker 2: He also mentioned that the craft he worked on, the 452 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,960 Sport model, had these three very small seats inside child 453 00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:05,559 size too small for a typical human adult. And he 454 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,599 was very very clear on one point, and the source 455 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,079 highlights it. He said human hands did not put this together. 456 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,279 Speaker 1: He claimed the tech was operational, it worked, but the 457 00:21:16,319 --> 00:21:18,599 science behind it was a total mystery to us. 458 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,319 Speaker 2: We were like monkeys trying to figure out how microwave works. 459 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:22,400 That was his analogy. 460 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: It's the ultimate reverse engineering problem. Like handing an iPhone 461 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,839 to a blacksmith in the Middle Ages. He might figure 462 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,920 out that if he pushes the glass, it lights up, 463 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:34,319 but he'll have no concept of electricity or microchips or 464 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:35,599 lithium ion batteries. 465 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: And Lazar's claim is that he was that blacksmith. He 466 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,640 was there to try and figure out the physics, the metallurgy, 467 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:42,599 the power source. 468 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,039 Speaker 1: So how on Earth does a person get a job 469 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,480 like that it's not something you see posted on LinkedIn. 470 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: No alien technology. Reverse engineer must be willing to relocate 471 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:58,119 to desolate secret base. Benefits include lifetime secrecy. 472 00:21:58,279 --> 00:22:00,599 Speaker 1: Right, So what's his story? How did he get the door? 473 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: According to Lazar's account in the source material, his journey 474 00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:08,599 starts at Los Alamos National Laboratory. He claims he was 475 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,680 working there as a physicist. 476 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,279 Speaker 1: A very prestigious government lab. 477 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,559 Speaker 2: One of the most important in the country. He says 478 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,720 he attended a lecture there given by doctor Edward Teller. 479 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: And for anyone who might not know that name, Edward 480 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:21,319 Teller is a very big deal. 481 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: He is a titan of twentieth century physics. He's known 482 00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:28,319 as the father of the hydrogen bomb, a hugely influential 483 00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:29,680 and controversial figure. 484 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,599 Speaker 1: And Lazarre claims he just met him at a lecture. 485 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,759 Speaker 2: Had a brief interaction, saw his name on a list 486 00:22:34,759 --> 00:22:37,640 of staff scientists, and then later when he was looking 487 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,119 for a new job, he says he just wrote a 488 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:39,799 letter to Teller. 489 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: That's a bold move, dear father of the h bomb, 490 00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:44,079 got any openings, and. 491 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,799 Speaker 2: Apparently it worked. Teller supposedly called him back and recommended 492 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,720 him for a position, but He wasn't hired directly by 493 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:54,039 the Air Force or the Navy. He was hired by 494 00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:55,480 a private defense. 495 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,759 Speaker 1: Contractor, a company called EGNG. 496 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 2: EGNG, and the source calls him the the most important 497 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,480 defense contractor you've never heard. 498 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:04,599 Speaker 1: Of, And that seems accurate. 499 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: It's chillingly accurate. EG and G, which stands for Edgerton, 500 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,839 Jermyshausen and Greer. They've been involved in this secret world 501 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,319 since the fifties. They were instrumental in the nuclear testing program. 502 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,359 They handle logistics, security, technical support, and staffing for these 503 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:20,960 black sites. 504 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: They're the ones who run the Janet Airline, right. 505 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,759 Speaker 2: They are those unmarked white seven thirty sevens with the 506 00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:28,599 red stripe that fly workers into Area fifty one from 507 00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,680 a private terminal at the Las Vegas Airport every single day. 508 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:34,079 They are the ultimate shadow company. 509 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: So by bringing EG and G into the story, Lazarre 510 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,799 adds this layer of bureaucratic realism. 511 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,079 Speaker 2: Yes, it grounds it. He wasn't hired by some mysterious 512 00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:45,480 men in black. He was hired by a defense contractor. 513 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:47,880 He had to fill out paperwork. He had a W two. 514 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: It feels real because it feels corporate. 515 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: It grounds the fantastical claims in the boring, mundane reality 516 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,119 of the military industrial complex. 517 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: So okay, he gets the job, goes to S four, 518 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,359 He sees the sport model, he sees the anti matter reactor. 519 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,920 He describes seeing a candle flame, bend and freeze because 520 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,599 of the gravity field. He's blown away, as the Source puts. 521 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: It, completely overwhelmed by what he's seeing. 522 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,799 Speaker 1: But then he cracks. 523 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 2: The burden of the secret becomes too much. The source 524 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,960 says he could no longer keep it a secret. I mean, 525 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,559 can you imagine you know the answer to the single 526 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,839 biggest question in all of human history and you can't 527 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:26,400 tell a soul? 528 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,039 Speaker 1: And his personal life is a mess. He thinks his 529 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,519 phone is being tapped, he thinks his wife is cheating 530 00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:34,599 on him. He's spiraling, so he breaks the most important rule. 531 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,599 He breaks his NDA. 532 00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:38,799 Speaker 2: He tells his wife Tracy, and he tells his friend 533 00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:39,640 Gene Huff. 534 00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: And this is where the story shifts gears again. It 535 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,640 goes from being a science fiction story to a spy thriller. 536 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: Because he doesn't just tell him about it. He decides 537 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,039 he needs to show them. 538 00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:50,759 Speaker 1: This is the part of the story that always just 539 00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:54,160 blows my mind. The audacity of it. He knows the 540 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,880 test schedule for the saucers. 541 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 2: He claims they tested them on Wednesday nights because base 542 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,079 trap was at its lowest. So he packs up his wife, 543 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,680 his friend Jean, and another friend named John Lear into 544 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,160 his car with a video camera, a video camera, and 545 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,319 a telescope. They drive out into the middle of the 546 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,319 desert off the main highway and hike up a dirt 547 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,720 road to get a vantage point overlooking the airspace. 548 00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: Can you just imagine that car ride. You're driving into 549 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:23,720 the pitch black desert, your friend is telling you you're 550 00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:26,200 about to see a flying saucer, and you have to 551 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,200 be thinking this guy's finally lost. 552 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,319 Speaker 2: It, absolutely until, according to their testimony, the skylights up. 553 00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: They see it. 554 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: They see a glowing disc of light performing impossible maneuvers 555 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,440 in the night sky. They even capture some of it 556 00:25:39,519 --> 00:25:40,880 on videotape for Lazarre. 557 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,559 Speaker 1: That must have been the ultimate vindication. See I'm not crazy, 558 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:45,079 there it is. 559 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: It must have been. But then they got cocky. They 560 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,680 went back a second time, and then a third time. 561 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: And on the third trip security was waiting for them. 562 00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,759 Speaker 2: They were caught stop by the Lincoln County Sheriff on 563 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:59,519 the highway near the perimeter. But then Lazarre claims the 564 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,200 real heavy hitters showed up base security. 565 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:03,759 Speaker 1: And he's fired. 566 00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 2: Oh instantly, his security clearance is revoked, he's interrogated, and 567 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,839 he's told in no uncertain terms never to come back. 568 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,759 And this is what kicks off this period of intense 569 00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:15,720 paranoia for him. 570 00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: The source mentions his tires were slashed. 571 00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:21,799 Speaker 2: Slash tires. He felt he was being followed constantly, he 572 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,119 received threats. He genuinely believed that they were going to 573 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,160 kill him to. 574 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: Keep him silent, and this, according to his story, is 575 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,880 his motivation for finally going on camera with George Now exactly. 576 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: He claimed he didn't do it for fame or money. 577 00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:37,119 He did it as an insurance. 578 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,079 Speaker 1: Policy, a safety measure. 579 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,839 Speaker 2: His logic was, if I'm a public figure, if my 580 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,400 face and my story are all over the news, it's 581 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,480 much harder for them to make me disappear quietly. If 582 00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:48,799 I die in a car accident, everyone will know why. 583 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: If you kill me, you just confirm everything I said. 584 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: It's safety and visibility. 585 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,039 Speaker 1: But the government has other ways of making people disappear, 586 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:58,880 maybe not physically, but professionally. And this brings us to 587 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,640 the credibility. 588 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,279 Speaker 2: The great erasure, because. 589 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: As soon as the Lazar story is out there, journalists 590 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,720 and skeptics start digging into his background and what they find, 591 00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,759 or rather what they don't find, is deeply troubling. 592 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: This is the central pillar of the case against Bob Lazar. 593 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,759 The reporters start verifying his credentials. He claimed to have 594 00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:23,400 advanced degrees from two of the most prestigious science universities 595 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,799 in the world, MIT and Celtech. 596 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: So a reporter picks up the phone calls the registrar's 597 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,440 office at MIT HI, can I get a verification of 598 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,559 attendance for a Robert Scott Lazar. 599 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 2: And Mike comes back and says, we have absolutely no 600 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,039 record of this person, not as a student, not as 601 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,039 a graduate, nothing. They call Kalpec, same answer. 602 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,279 Speaker 1: That's a huge red flag, a massive one. 603 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,759 Speaker 2: Then they check his employment history. He claimed to have 604 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:48,920 been a physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. 605 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: So they call Los Alamos and the. 606 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,279 Speaker 2: Official response from the lab is Bob who never heard 607 00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:55,160 of him? No record of him ever working here. 608 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: They call EG and G the contractor. 609 00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 2: No record. At every turn, it's a dead end. It 610 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,640 looks like he's a complete fraud. It looked like he 611 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,039 just made the entire story up. 612 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: And this is the skeptics position, right, and it's a 613 00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:09,720 very strong, very logical position. 614 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,519 Speaker 2: It is, if a person is verifiably lying about their education, 615 00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:16,559 something that is so fundamental and so easy to check, 616 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,720 why on earth should anyone believe his much more extraordinary 617 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,599 claims about alien spaceships. 618 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,079 Speaker 1: It paints him as a con man, maybe a smart guy, 619 00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:28,359 good storyteller who read some physics books and some sci 620 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,880 fi and decided to seek attention. 621 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 2: And for a long time, that's where the story stalled. 622 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:35,440 But there's a twist. There's always a twist with this story. 623 00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: This is the thrilling thread we've been looking for. 624 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: The reporters, specifically George Knapp. They didn't just accept the 625 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,839 official denials as the final word. He kept digging. He 626 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,640 went looking for physical evidence. 627 00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:48,039 Speaker 1: And he found a phone book. 628 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: It's so beautifully low tech. In our digital world, we 629 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,119 forget how permanent paper can be a digital database entry 630 00:28:54,519 --> 00:28:57,359 that can be deleted with a single keystroke, poof gone. 631 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: But a physical printed phone book from the nineteen eighties 632 00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:03,119 sitting in a dusty archive somewhere that. 633 00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 2: Is much much harder to scrub from existence. 634 00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: And inside that old Los Alamos National Laboratory internal phone directory. 635 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,799 Speaker 2: Listed right there among the other scientists and technicians. 636 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: With the name Bob Lazar Boob. It is the absolute 637 00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:21,519 smoking gun for the believers. It proves, at a minimum 638 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,440 that Los Alamos officially lied when they said he never 639 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:24,960 worked there. 640 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: It creates a huge crack in the dam of denial 641 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,640 because now you have to ask, if they were willing 642 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,240 to lie about his employment, what else were they lying about. 643 00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: Did they have the power to delete his university records? 644 00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:42,160 Could they scrub his birth certificate? Could they systematically erase 645 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,079 a person's entire pass just to discredit them? 646 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 2: That is the truly chilling question because if the government 647 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,559 has the capability and the willingness to do that, to 648 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,720 retroactively delete your education, your job history, your entire identity 649 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,000 just to make you look like a crazy. 650 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,839 Speaker 1: Person, that's almost scarier than the aliens. 651 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,559 Speaker 2: It suggests a level of power, a level of orwelly 652 00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:04,440 in control over reality itself that is terrifying. 653 00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:06,599 Speaker 1: So now the battle lines are drawn. You have two 654 00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:07,400 distinct camps. 655 00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: Can't believer says this is proof he is a courageous whistleblower. 656 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:14,359 And the deep State is trying to erase him from 657 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,960 history to protect their biggest secret. 658 00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: And camp skeptic says, okay, fine, he worked at Los Alamos, 659 00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,240 but maybe he was just a low level of technician, 660 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:24,440 not a physicist. He found his name in the phone 661 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,400 book and used that one single kernel of truth to 662 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,319 build this elaborate, fantastical lie around it. 663 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: And for decades it was basically a stalemate between those 664 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,559 two positions, or it was until twenty eleven. 665 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,119 Speaker 1: Because for a long long time, Bobozar was the only voice. 666 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440 He was the lone wolf howling in the desert. 667 00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,079 Speaker 2: But then we get another crucial thread, and it comes 668 00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:50,440 from a very credible source, an investigative journalist named Annie Jacobson. 669 00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:53,279 Speaker 1: She's a heavyweight. She wrote what many consider to be 670 00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:55,839 the definitive book on the base called Area fifty one, 671 00:30:56,079 --> 00:30:59,119 Non Censored History of America's top secret military base. 672 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: And she's not AFO hunter. She's a serious journalist. She 673 00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:07,079 interviewed dozens and dozens of former base workers, engineers, pilots, 674 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,599 people who were. 675 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,039 Speaker 1: Actually there, and in her book she found someone else 676 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:11,640 she did. 677 00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 2: She interviewed an unnamed source, an engineer. He was one 678 00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,680 of five engineers who had been contracted to work at 679 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,960 the base by guess who it has to be eg EGNG. 680 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:24,519 His engineer was sent out to Area fifty one in 681 00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:28,720 the late seventies, and the story he tells, the job 682 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:33,319 he describes corroborates Bob Lazar's story in some truly startling ways. 683 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: And this is twenty two years after Lazar went public. 684 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 2: Yes, this is in twenty eleven, two decades later, this 685 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,200 anonymous engineer describes his duties at the base to try 686 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,119 and figure out the propulsion system of a captured foreign 687 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,759 aircraft reverse. 688 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,519 Speaker 1: Engineering, And did he give a name for the facility 689 00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:50,160 where he worked. 690 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 2: He referred to the location as Sigma four or S four. 691 00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: That sounds of shiver down my spine, It really does. 692 00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:00,559 Speaker 2: It should, Yeah, Because even if you doubt Bob Lazar's credentials, 693 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:03,039 even if you're convinced he lied about MIT, which he 694 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,079 very well might have, the fact that you have a 695 00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:07,960 completely independent source twenty two years. 696 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:12,039 Speaker 1: Later from a credible journalistic investigation describing the exact same 697 00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:15,680 secret facility S four, run by the exact same secret 698 00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,880 contractor EGNG, with the exact same top secret mission profile 699 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,599 of reverse engineering and advanced propulsion system. Wow. 700 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,119 Speaker 2: Well, statistically that is incredibly significant. 701 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: It means either they both happen to read the same 702 00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:33,799 obscure sci fi novel or they both experienced the same reality. 703 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,119 Speaker 2: It shifts the conversation. It moves it from being one 704 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,759 man's potentially crazy story to being a pattern of corroborating testimony. 705 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,559 It adds serious weight to the idea that S four 706 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,359 is a real place and that egg was doing something 707 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,799 extremely exotic there. 708 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:49,319 Speaker 1: It does. 709 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,559 Speaker 2: So let's try and pull all these threads together. Now, 710 00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:53,799 let's look at the picture that's been painted. Okay, we 711 00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,519 have a base born out of Cold War secrecy, built 712 00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:58,200 in the most desolate place imaginable. 713 00:32:58,279 --> 00:33:02,079 Speaker 1: The secrecy around its first mission, testing high altitude spyplanes 714 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:06,000 accidentally fuels a generation of alien conspiracy theories. 715 00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 2: It creates a vacuum, and then years later a man 716 00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:10,640 steps out of that vacuum and says, guess what you 717 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,440 were right all along? It is aliens. And the government's 718 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,680 response isn't just a denyant, but to actively try and 719 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,119 erase him from existence, while at the same time fortifying 720 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,200 the base to a level that implies they are hiding 721 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,720 something of unimaginable value. 722 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:28,119 Speaker 1: It's just the perfect storm of mystery. If they really 723 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,279 are hiding alien technology, the extreme secrecy makes perfect sense. 724 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:36,279 Speaker 2: But if they are just hiding, say the next generation 725 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:41,039 of stealth aircraft or hypersonic drones, the secrecy also makes 726 00:33:41,079 --> 00:33:41,720 perfect sense. 727 00:33:41,759 --> 00:33:45,279 Speaker 1: And that's the genius or the curse of Area fifty one. 728 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,720 It's a roar shock test for our society. 729 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: You see in it what you're predisposed to see. If 730 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,200 you fear government overreach, you see a black site that 731 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,079 erases its own citizens. If you hope for contact with 732 00:33:56,119 --> 00:33:59,160 other worlds, you see an alien embassy hidden in the desert. 733 00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: But no matter what is actually inside those camouflaged hangars, 734 00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:05,880 the one thing that is absolutely undeniably true is that 735 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,760 the United States, everment, is willing to go to unbelievable 736 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,199 lengths to keep us out. 737 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: Deadly force, lifetime NDAs, seismic sensors, and constant surveillance. This 738 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:16,880 isn't just another military base. 739 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,119 Speaker 1: No, it's a reminder that there are places in this 740 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,000 country where the normal rules don't apply, where the constitution 741 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:26,760 seems to just stop at the fence line, and the 742 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,840 need to know takes over. Well said, and that brings 743 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,280 us to the end of this particular thread. But we 744 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,360 can't just leave it there. We have to leave you, 745 00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:36,480 the listener, with something to think about. 746 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,639 Speaker 2: We've looked at the evidence, the conflicting stories, the mysterious 747 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:44,599 phone book, yeah, the corroborating testimony from two decades later, 748 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,960 the strange physics of element one p fifteen, which, by 749 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,599 the way, has since been synthesized in labs. It has 750 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,719 it has They named it moscovium, but it was highly 751 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,639 unstable and decayed in a fraction of a second, unlike 752 00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,719 the stable version Lazaar described as a fuel source. 753 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,119 Speaker 1: So here is the question we want to leave with 754 00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:04,880 you as you're listening right now. Do you believe Bob 755 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,199 Lazar was systematically erased by the government to hide a 756 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,400 world changing truth. Is he a martyr for disclosure or is. 757 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 2: He just the world's luckiest or smartest guesser, a fraud 758 00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:18,599 who somehow managed to predict the existence of a secret 759 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:21,920 facility called s four twenty years before anyone else ever 760 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:22,400 mentioned it. 761 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,119 Speaker 1: And maybe there's a bigger question here. Let's just say 762 00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:27,400 for a moment it's all true. If they do have 763 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,559 this technology, anti gravity, anti matter reactors, things that could 764 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:35,599 solve the energy crisis, cure diseases, take us to the stars. 765 00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:39,360 Why are they keeping it locked away in a dry 766 00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:41,000 lake bed in Nevada? 767 00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:44,159 Speaker 2: Is it for our own protection because humanity just isn't 768 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:47,000 ready for that kind of revelation, or is it for 769 00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:50,800 their own power to maintain a technological advantage. 770 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,760 Speaker 1: That's the one that keeps me up at night. We 771 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,239 want to know where you stand. Tell us what you think. 772 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,320 Are you hashtag team Lazar or are you hashtag team 773 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,159 in Skeptic? Do you trust physicist or do you trust 774 00:36:01,199 --> 00:36:01,719 the silence? 775 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 2: Just you know, maybe don't try and storm the gates 776 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,199 to find the answer for yourself. 777 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's definitely avoid the deadly force. We can keep 778 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,679 the Naruto running to the Anime conventions. Thank you for 779 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,000 joining us on thrilling threads. 780 00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 2: Until next time.