WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.040 You see, something's going to happen. 2 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:10.599 What? What's going to happen? 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 4 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:18.160 Client? 5 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:29.120 Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Today, We've got a very 6 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.280 very special guest, so many that a bunch of us 7 00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:33.640 have been really looking forward to talk to and having 8 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:38.479 on the show. Today, we got doctor Stephen Flowers, better 9 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.759 known to room workers worldwide as Edward Thorson. With a 10 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:46.520 PhD in Dramatic Languages and Medieval Studies from the University 11 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.359 of Texas, Flowers have spent over four decades bridging hard 12 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:54.600 nosed philology and lived at magical practice. Is one of 13 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.240 his latest titles, The Revival of the Rooms unfurls a 14 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:01.679 five hundred year saga of how scholars, missed, nationalists, and yes, 15 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:05.200 even Nazis, have reimagined the Germanic runs. 16 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:06.280 Along the way. 17 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.879 He calls for a new integral rhunology that reunites academic 18 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.920 rigor with operative craft. Whether you carve stage, consult rum lots, 19 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.640 or just love hidden history, stay tuned for a tour 20 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:21.799 through five centuries of runic revival. But before we get 21 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:24.680 to him, let me introduce all the other rejects with 22 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:28.200 us today. We'll start with you, Lisa Lisa, the Cult 23 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:30.400 Reject Mad Scientists or what is going on? 24 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:30.920 How are you? 25 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:34.519 How's it going good afternoon? I am really really looking 26 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.760 forward to this. Thank you for inviting me on the 27 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.640 Fellow Rejects, and I'm very much looking forward to the 28 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:43.400 discussion of the doctor Flowers. We've kind of come across 29 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:47.799 him several times and looking at different different books, and 30 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:49.840 you know, it was always one of those things and 31 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:51.519 we get him on like is it okay? 32 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:54.599 You know, like him? Will he say yes? 33 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:57.719 So we're very very excited, and thank you for inviting 34 00:01:57.719 --> 00:01:59.120 me on. The only thing I need to plug is 35 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:02.280 a cult search Institute dot org where some of our 36 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:07.239 fellow adult rejects to the website some literary work and 37 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:08.400 research of the room. 38 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.080 Thank you listen, Thank you very much. 39 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:13.759 Yes, I if I even do remember correctly when I 40 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.319 was practicing the Occulton and the OTO, I even went through. 41 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:19.759 I think his old eighty seven or late eighties book 42 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:21.879 is on wounds. So to have him on the show 43 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.000 is even just like what the hell's But thank you 44 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:27.639 very much for joining us, Lisa, and we got jenin 45 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:28.879 the ninja What is going on? 46 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:29.039 Sir? 47 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.439 Thanks bas for having me on and this is an amazing, 48 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:35.759 huge honor. Thank you so much Neck for inviting me 49 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:38.840 on with our of course my fellow rejects and solar 50 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.159 exile who I guess it's like a reject for today. 51 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:45.280 And so if you want to follow me, you can 52 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.840 follow me on the X Twitter at wukanri Born w 53 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.800 UK and g Reborn at Threshold Saints, which is both 54 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:54.840 IG and X for the show account and I have 55 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.360 Robbie Marx and Nick will be on the next release 56 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:02.120 coronas On So that was coming out Book of Being 57 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:04.759 in part three and of course the Great Lodge. So 58 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:07.960 if you're interested in our speculative gnostic series, of which 59 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.759 Solo is absolutely an integral part of, please join us 60 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:12.919 on Fridays on X Live. 61 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.280 Thank you awesome, Thank you very much, Jim and Ricardo, Sir. 62 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:19.159 Please let everybody know what your deal is when they 63 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:20.879 can find all your amazing works. 64 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.039 Thank you, Nick, thank you for inviting me. Good afternoon 65 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.520 to all the panel. Pleasure to meet you, Steven Flowers. 66 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:32.439 I'm looking forward to learn from you today and everyone 67 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:34.639 can find me at at the day is on the 68 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:39.159 screen at Ricarcabo X. Also visit the Institute for Natalphilosophy 69 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.800 dot org, where you can find a magazine, you can 70 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.240 find many ways to collaborate, and even our store. So 71 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:47.360 looking forward to it. 72 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.080 Thank you Nick, Oh, thank you Recodo. 73 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:52.280 Always appreciate your joining us and we got solo exile 74 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.159 joining us today. What is going on, sir? Please let 75 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:56.439 everybody know what your deal is. 76 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.400 Well, my deal is well, I'm just some guy. You 77 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.120 can find me on Twitter at a Solar Underscore exile friend. 78 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:04.879 Jim's longtime front of the show, so a long time 79 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:06.960 first time. I don't really have any good plug, so 80 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.080 I do want to say that in my mind, when 81 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.960 I think of the Father, one of the integral roles 82 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.879 is to lead the son to the sort of outer 83 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:17.959 gate of the temple. And sort of in that spirit, 84 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:20.639 I think it's a very cool thing that we get 85 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:23.480 to have system as flowers with us on Father's Day. 86 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:24.800 I just thought that was an extra cool kind of 87 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.480 synchronicity because he has brought so many people, like uncountably 88 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.600 many people either directly or indirectly through his work, you know, 89 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.360 to those outer gates. So it's really something cool. Happy 90 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:34.759 to be here. 91 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:37.879 Oh, thank you very much, man. That was touching. 92 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:38.240 Thank you. 93 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:43.600 They got me feeling, So Steven Flowers finally well got 94 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:45.279 to you. There's only a couple of minutes in, but 95 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.680 we finally got to you. Doctor Stephen Flowers. Please let 96 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.079 everybody know who you are, what your deal is, and 97 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.240 I guess whatever credentials you like to share with everybody 98 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:54.759 and where they can find all your amazing. 99 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:59.639 Books, well as far as find me. We're sort of 100 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:04.680 all my books published works have been collected into a 101 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.680 site that just all feeds to Amazon, because that's just 102 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.920 I'm no good at fulfilling orders anymore. I'm too old. 103 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:19.879 But is seek the Mysteries dot Com. Seek the Mysteries 104 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:21.759 dot Com has all of my work. 105 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:30.680 So anyway, Yeah, I have followed my own mentors from 106 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:34.839 academia and elsewhere in being quite diverse. 107 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:40.439 I think in the kind of books and projects I've 108 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:44.920 undertaken over the years. And sometimes people say, oh, well, 109 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.519 how can you go here and talk about that and 110 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.199 about moths and things, and then about rooms and then 111 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:57.040 about the left hand path. But everything that I do 112 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:06.319 comes from a central idea and a central message and concept, 113 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.079 and that is the idea of Aruna of the mystery 114 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:17.199 uh and my motto as it were, is ran tilleruna, 115 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.759 which means seek the mystery, seek in the direction of 116 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:26.560 the mysteries, and of course that's what the ruins are. 117 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:31.800 That's what the word roun means is secret or mystery. 118 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:37.199 So everything that I do comes from that center of gravity. 119 00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:41.680 And so it's really all just one big work with 120 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:48.360 a lot of different appearances, and so many of my mentors, 121 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:53.240 people like Edgar Polme who's one of the great Indo 122 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:58.040 Europeanists of his generation. Uh was an expert and I'm 123 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.519 no no one likes him. I don't claim to be, 124 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:06.319 but he was a expert, for example, in not only 125 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:12.120 into European things, but African ban two languages and things 126 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.600 like that. He was a Belgian, spent some time in 127 00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:18.480 the Congo before it got kicked out in the nineteen 128 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:26.399 sixty But so that kind of breadth of interest is 129 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:31.319 something that inspired me from the academic world that I 130 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.879 spent so many years in. And so that explains why 131 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:41.680 there are so many things and appearances teaching people who 132 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.040 taught me and showed me the way, as well as 133 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:49.839 this idea of mystery, which is universal found everywhere in 134 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:58.519 every culture, except in so far as this odentic paradigm. 135 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:04.439 This odentic archetype makes this concept and this thing the 136 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:13.439 central focus of this archetypal task. So it is most 137 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:21.160 fitting to have most illustrative of this quest to look 138 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:27.560 at things through this lens of the odentic archetype. And 139 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:32.080 mentioning my mentor Edgar Paula May. He was a great 140 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:37.360 expert in the field of the god Odin and wrote 141 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:45.639 articles on the subject, most of them in French. But anyway, 142 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:49.279 he showed me the way, many many ways that on 143 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:53.559 how to think about things. When I went into school 144 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:59.159 and started studying religion and comparative religion and mythology and 145 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.679 all of that sort of thing in an academic setting, 146 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.519 I was of the opinion and feeling of thought as 147 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:10.840 anybody kid might have been. In nineteen seventy three thereabout 148 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.960 somehow paganism was about nature worship. And I see this 149 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.480 debated on the Internet even today, and this is like 150 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:26.720 the most ludicrous idea one can imagine. It's something that 151 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:32.879 has been influenced by nineteenth century or earlier critics of 152 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:39.240 paganism and pre Christian religion that all the pagans worship nature, 153 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:44.279 but we worship Christ and the spiritual and that's the 154 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:48.159 higher and they're the inferior, and so forth. But when 155 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:52.519 we really look back at pagan thinkers, they whether they 156 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.480 are the mythic kinds we see in the Edda in 157 00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:02.720 Old Norse poetry, or we look at Greek and Roman philosophers, 158 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:10.559 in every way, in every dimension, these people had much 159 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:16.840 more insight into the world beyond nature than any Christians 160 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:24.200 muster and pagan is. The pagan thinking was Christian. So well, 161 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.480 these people are like studying science and doing all and philosophy, 162 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.200 and we just simply believe in Christ and that's all 163 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.720 you need, that kind of attitude and so forth. But he, 164 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:42.600 without me asking him a question, it just quickly knew 165 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:47.240 exactly the question that was on my mind, and he said, absolutely, 166 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:53.159 the Pagans, the ancient Germanic people are not nature worshipers. 167 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.600 And that's why my early work in academia, in graduate school, 168 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.440 my master's these this was on the idea of the 169 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:11.120 heroic archetype or hero zigord and how he was his 170 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:17.960 father reborn in a in all his powers and abilities. 171 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.039 This is the way that the ancient Germanic people's conceived 172 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:29.960 of quote reincarnation, quote that the through family lines, powers, abilities, 173 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:34.960 and propensities good and bad would be handed on. That's 174 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.600 like obvious or should be that they're picking up on 175 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.440 things that we identify as genetics and other things. But 176 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:50.600 there was a whole psychology or anthropology better put in 177 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:56.759 the census, studying the whole human being, both physical parts 178 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:03.799 and so called spiritual parts, all a sort of spectrum 179 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:12.480 of concepts and organs, if you will. And these were 180 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:17.320 handed on in a traditional way that we're not somebody 181 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.080 wasn't saying, now, boys and girls, here we are in 182 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.519 Sunday school, and this is what you have to believe, 183 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:24.879 and this is what the name of this is, and 184 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:28.720 repeat after me. And so that was not the way. 185 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.440 It was just for the way of living. It was 186 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:38.519 just part of the way in which they existed. And 187 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:45.519 it's those things which I studied, and in so studying 188 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:51.399 these things, the cosmology, the psychology of these of our 189 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:57.399 ancient ancestors, studying them deeply enough is tantamount to a 190 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:04.159 profound conversion, if you will, because you embody you you 191 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:10.720 absorb these basic concepts. You're not thinking about something, you're 192 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:18.039 thinking from within something. And so that is how academia 193 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:26.120 had quote the occult and quote it gets fused in 194 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.240 my experience as a young person when I was beginning, 195 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.120 when I was around twenty years old, you know, but 196 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.919 I was so lucky. It's luck more than anything else 197 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.360 to have the interest that I had, which was in 198 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:49.840 nineteen seventy two, three, et cetera. Was very common, very common, 199 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.879 much more common than now as far as just people 200 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:57.240 who really weren't that enthusiastic about it was just in 201 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.879 the air. It was everywhere, this kind of interest in 202 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:09.360 what we call the occult, mysticism, magic, etc. It was 203 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.159 harder to find because you didn't just click something on 204 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.879 the Internet and find out things. You had to know somebody, 205 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.200 You had to spend a lot of time, effort, and 206 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:24.360 so forth. But it was that kind of thing was 207 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.320 in the air a lot of people. But I had 208 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:36.120 to have interest X and then to find myself in 209 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:43.600 the place and in the environment of exactly the persons 210 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:49.120 and place where this kind of thing could be accessed. 211 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:53.080 In that academic world of the University of Texas at 212 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:58.720 Austin in the early seventies, where we had a Germanic 213 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.159 languages department, and your Polo May and others who were 214 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.120 dedicated to this and this mentor of mine at your poleman. 215 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.639 What many people will teach even today in the academic 216 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:15.399 world about vikings. They're more popular than ever, obviously, Uh, 217 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:19.559 But the people usually treat it as a hoot. You know, 218 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.639 it's like, good, you believe these wild and crazy guys 219 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.159 that do all these things, and aren't they wild? Like 220 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.159 bikers are something, and they're your professors. And now we 221 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:35.399 had those two Uh treated this whole world as a 222 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:41.840 kind of a bizarre, unbelievable, wacky, out of control, a 223 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:46.639 bunch of heathens. You know, that's funny, as But no, 224 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.840 that was not the way I was taught. It was 225 00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:56.159 hot that these things that we are studying are serious, important, 226 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.120 and meaningful. This is the root of who we are 227 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:06.519 and who will always be if we are true to ourselves. 228 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.480 And so that kind of attitude of serious, important, meaningful 229 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:18.960 study is something that even if you can find people 230 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.279 teaching about this sort of thing in the academic world, 231 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:29.159 very few, if any, have a positive attitude towards the 232 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:35.840 subject matter. And many times it's treated is absolutely well, 233 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.960 it's being forbidden. You know. It's been the University of 234 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:43.960 Texas today, it was the place where Paul May taught, 235 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:47.639 where Lee Hollander, one of the most famous translators of 236 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:53.519 the Edda from the nineteen twenties, was a professor there. 237 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.799 And now you can't even see. They don't even teach 238 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:03.679 Old Norse anymore. They don't teach you at all because 239 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:10.559 it's well, you know, forbidden, it's old, dead, white European men, 240 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.039 and that's what I say of it, and so therefore 241 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.680 we're not teaching it anymore. Well, they won't come out. 242 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:24.559 I've asked, you know, why did it disappear? And that 243 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:28.240 question when I ask it of someone is the last 244 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:31.480 time I ever speak of that person. They'll never answer 245 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.039 me or talk to me again. But were asking that question, 246 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:37.039 that's what happens. 247 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.519 So, Stephen, if you forgive me a question, because I'm 248 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.920 relatively new to this, but I would like to ask you, so, 249 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:50.400 in your perspective, all of this myths and all of 250 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.440 this that sums up and goes into and has the 251 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:56.359 rooms in it, you don't think that its origins came 252 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.839 from an animistic view where the rooms itself are in 253 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:04.000 element of the power of nature and some object for instance. 254 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:11.480 No, no, it's it is the symbolic power these rooms 255 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.680 were invented by a single man. Okay, there was one 256 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.400 person who did it. We don't know who it was, 257 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.640 but it was probably around somewhere between two hundred b c. 258 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.960 And around the turn of the epoch in that area. 259 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:32.880 He was a poet, a storyteller, a mythographer, and so forth. 260 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:38.960 And that's why this odentic god form is the god 261 00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:43.400 form of the of the run using culture, if you will. 262 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:52.039 These things are symbolic of things which are eternal and 263 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:58.119 beyond the experience of the mundane. If you see the 264 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:05.960 old Norse cosmology where we see it most exemplified, you 265 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.880 see these different worlds. People say, oh, Thorson or whoever 266 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.240 is imitating the Cabbala or something, and said, well, no, 267 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:21.200 you know the great Cabalist. And I studied that sort 268 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:26.039 of thing when I was younger, and at the university, 269 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.680 I took a course as a great course, you know, 270 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.519 in Jewish mysticism. I studied it quite a bit, and 271 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.440 so forth and so on. And it turns out that 272 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.720 when you get into the scholarly part of it, the 273 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.960 whole tree of life thing, for example, was not really 274 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:47.640 codified until the twelve hundred's in Spain, it's not something 275 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:53.200 super ancient, but it is. It's sort of in the tradition, 276 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.200 but it doesn't get that sort of codification till then. 277 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:01.440 And that's you read the and you see they are 278 00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:05.640 describing worlds, and this one is to the east, this 279 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.559 one is to the west, this one's above, this one's below, 280 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.599 and they in words, they paint this picture of these 281 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.039 nine worlds, and so forth, these things exist. The natural 282 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.400 world exists in mid guard, and beyond that, on the 283 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:31.160 outside of that is a world of other dimensions. And oh, 284 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:37.319 you've mentioned animism. Well, we have two forms of approach, 285 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:44.079 and animism should rarely, if ever be mentioned apart from 286 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:49.240 another concept, which is its twin which people rarely talk about, 287 00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.759 and I hear in these discussions, and that is dynamism. 288 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:58.920 Dynamism and animism. These are the two partners in the 289 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:05.160 approach to magic or magical thinking in archaic ancient society. 290 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:11.119 Dynamism is kind of like a Animism involves a creature 291 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:18.640 or something that has a a kind of identity. That's 292 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:27.039 why they are characterize it under the symbols of animals, dwarves, elves, 293 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:31.880 et cetera. They have an onymous, a kind of a 294 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.799 spirit or soul. And then dynamism. Something which is a 295 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:42.519 dynamistic power is something which is like electricity, it's analogous 296 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:48.079 to electricity or gravity, or it is an impersonal force. 297 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.200 May the force be with you. It can't be bargained with, 298 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.000 It can't be communicated with. It can only be used 299 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:02.720 were using a certain quote technology. And these are not separate. 300 00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:06.519 They are part of animism. What you're describing is a 301 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.839 part of the animism. So if you go to the 302 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.519 descriptions of the Norse mythology, all of it is animism. 303 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.200 Is the land is the power of the land, is 304 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.160 the power of the creatures that emerge from the land. 305 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:17.799 Emir itself became the land. 306 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.480 But there's a separate concept of the power. For example, 307 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.880 the humming you that a person has their luck is 308 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.359 something which can be you know, pray to it or 309 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:34.880 bargain with the humming you. You build it through action, 310 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:42.279 or someone gives you this as a gift, can be 311 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.119 laid on someone. And it can be that thing which 312 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.559 is inherited, as is the thing which is inherited from 313 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.799 one generation to the next. But I think people have 314 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:59.599 broadened the concept of pandomism beyond the point where it is, uh, 315 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:06.279 you know, a precise definition. So yeah, we just you know, 316 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:11.160 maud By dynamistic and animistic concepts. And then you say, well, 317 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.759 it's all quote, it's all dynamism. It's all a force 318 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.839 or power. And sometimes we conceive of it as a 319 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:23.319 as a as a as a pixie, or a dwarf 320 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.480 for an elf, but it's really just a power. Somebody 321 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:27.440 might argue. 322 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.559 That I see it as as a planet, as a cosmos, 323 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.640 as an animous equilibrium where everything is connected. I don't 324 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.200 see a dwarf for a creature. I see everything, the 325 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.319 Earth itself, e dressled, each one of the nine worlds. 326 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.480 They are all part of this animism that I really 327 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.519 forms of power that can be then used by conjunctions 328 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.759 of materials like, for instance, the rooms. That's my point. 329 00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:52.440 I'm I'm trying to disagree with you, but that's how 330 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:52.839 I see it. 331 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:59.359 I'm sorry talking your converted animism into dynamism. Yeah, so 332 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.599 that's fine, but that's what it is. It's closer to dynamism. 333 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:10.079 The actual uh dino almost is great words for power 334 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.960 is power and uh that. 335 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:17.960 Power must you radiate from somewhere now. 336 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:24.599 Yes, absolutely, Yeah, that's I had no farther point from 337 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:29.079 which it or comes are the the the ice? 338 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.240 So I have I have a sort of question since 339 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.319 you brought up the homingia, and maybe this is it's 340 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:37.319 a parallel question that might give us a different angle 341 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.079 to approach this. Forgive me if it's if it's too technical, 342 00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:41.359 we can take a step back if you don't think 343 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.160 it's productive. Since you mentioned you have you know, we 344 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.119 haven't gone through a full itinerary. We don't need to 345 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.480 of the Germanic soul complex or the varieties of Germanic 346 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.519 soul complexes. And I'm wondering which parts of those soul 347 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:58.960 complexes are sort of stabilized and perpetuated in the subjective 348 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.119 universe buy an initiate. Is it a single part? Is 349 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.000 it the sort of what are considered the transcendent aspects 350 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.480 of it, the fieldga et cetera. Where is this the 351 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:10.759 wrong way to approach? 352 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.000 I mean, that's that is the way. 353 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:15.640 Uh. 354 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:20.480 You have to strengthen these parts of yourself, just like 355 00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:23.039 they are just like your arms, your legs, et cetera. 356 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:28.720 If you're an athlete or warrior. Uh, the thephilia them them, 357 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.400 you know, all of these things have to be our 358 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:41.119 parts of ourselves. And of course, Bob, the reality of 359 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:48.480 magic is something that people rarely approach or talk about. Uh, 360 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.599 you know when it's really the essential part, and that 361 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:55.519 is that when you say I'm gonna do spells and 362 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.920 do this, that and the other, you know, well, that's fine, 363 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.279 keep doing it, son, you know, because that that'll that 364 00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:05.559 will render a person pretty not dangerous. But until until 365 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:10.119 you say, this is how magic is done. You have 366 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:15.960 to get the God, the spirit, the demon, whatever you 367 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:19.839 call it. You've got to come into possession of that. 368 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:22.960 It could be it could emerge from within yourself, like 369 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:27.880 the philia, and you make a bargain a union between 370 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:33.400 you and this thing, which is irrelevant as to whether 371 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.720 it's part of you or from somewhere else. It could 372 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:40.480 be either or both. Uh. And that's in the Icelandic tradition. 373 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.279 You see this and these are the a uh or 374 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:49.720 it could be the philia or a lot of other names. 375 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:56.119 But it is something that you get as your autodors 376 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:01.480 is what it's called, of course in the Greek tradition, uh, 377 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:08.039 helping spirit if you will, and getting that and gaining 378 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.799 a relationship in a union with this thing. This is 379 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:16.559 what Croley called knowledge and contwork other's before him, but 380 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.640 what he focused on knowledge and conversation of the Holy 381 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:25.200 Guardian Angel. And this is something, of course, as what 382 00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.759 I'm writing a little study about Croley and how he 383 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.119 and the famous words of Maxwell Smart from the nineteen sixties. 384 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.319 If everybody's old enough to remember, get smart one of 385 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:43.839 his little catchphrases is missed it by that much. And Crowley, 386 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:47.839 of course used his predecessors had used this so called 387 00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:52.880 bornless ritual which had come from the Greek magical papyary, 388 00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:57.200 and it is not intended for the purpose that they 389 00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:01.599 were trying to use it for. However, there's a half 390 00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:07.799 a dozen other rituals in that body of which is precisely, 391 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:18.119 pragmatically and fundamentally intended for that sort of working to 392 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.680 gain this entity as you as in making it part 393 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:28.480 of yourself. And I just recently finished it's going to 394 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:33.680 be published by Arcana Europa, a translation, a new translation 395 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.920 of the translation that exists as an abomination of linguistic 396 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:44.640 abomination of the German magician sexologist and all the way 397 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:50.359 around Madman er Scherkly and he wrote a book called Magee, 398 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:56.599 and this is one of the most honest, straightforward, pragmatic 399 00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.480 books on the subject of magic. And he just fills 400 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.680 it out there right from the beginning. Uh, just if 401 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:09.519 you can, you know, work through his prosh is, which 402 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:16.000 is you've got to get this connection with and he 403 00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:20.279 just says, with the demon, with the god whatever, you know, 404 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.680 this thing it can be different ones, you know, different things. 405 00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:27.480 It's not all the same. It's not just one. It's 406 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:31.880 it's your thing. It's something in sort of fate has 407 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.359 intended for you or not. Most people won't until you 408 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:43.680 get that thing. Uh, when you get it, all magic works. Hey, 409 00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:47.079 you thing works. I do a half ass ritual I do. 410 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:50.920 I just think of something that works, and another person 411 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.359 will get his sword and make it out and get 412 00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.119 all these materials. Of course, most of all that stuff 413 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:04.759 is put into the grimoires as an something which ensures 414 00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:07.240 that no one will ever have magic that works. And 415 00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:11.079 you'll always blame yourself because it says, well, if I 416 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.799 only my sword wasn't long enough, or my. 417 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.000 Uh was it made out of the right material? 418 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:20.200 I didn't make it on a Wednesday, My inscription is 419 00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:22.720 wrong on it say or so forth. It's always something 420 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.720 like that, you know, the timing, whether all that, that's 421 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.599 all put there just to be sure you don't know secret, 422 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:36.440 which the secret is you get your your helper, and 423 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:40.640 than anything and everything works or can work. As I 424 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:46.559 point out repeatedly everywhere I talk about the subject a 425 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.640 magic is an art. It is not a science. So 426 00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:56.079 that motto, you know, the the uh the name of 427 00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:02.079 religion and methods of science is that it is relatious. 428 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:08.119 Because magic is an art. Science is something that no 429 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.720 matter who you are, a subject x y Z, scientist 430 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:14.839 x y or z, it doesn't matter where in the 431 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.960 world you are, who you are, if you do this experiment, 432 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.720 it will work. That's science. So it makes it science. 433 00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.720 But the fact that there's a subjective component, that is 434 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:32.319 the subject linguistically speaking, subject, the doer, the doer of 435 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:37.799 this experiment, of this work, is relevant. In fact, it 436 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:43.039 is paramount as to the working or not working of 437 00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.440 the and of the condition, and the character of that 438 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:51.920 subject is essential to the working or not working of 439 00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.440 the experiment. Magic working, and so it is an art. 440 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:00.920 Sometimes it is like the that was the Chief, I 441 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:03.559 can't remember the chief's name the movie Little Big Man. 442 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.240 You know, he wanted to die. He laid there and 443 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.920 it didn't work. And he says, well, sometimes the magic 444 00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:14.960 works and sometimes it doesn't, you know. But and a 445 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:20.279 cherycle answer. Cheritle wrote this book in nineteen thirty two 446 00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:24.559 something like that, and it's famous, and the previous translation 447 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.680 was really interested in it only because it was in 448 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.400 the bunker with Hitler and he'd been given this book 449 00:32:32.559 --> 00:32:40.680 by the publisher when it was published, and he had 450 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:43.480 it with him in the bunker, and it was like, no, 451 00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:48.680 he wrote, underlined or emphasized passages and so forth and 452 00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:52.839 so on, and did implement, you know, many of the 453 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:58.319 ideas of this development of the magical persona, which will 454 00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:06.559 become a godline creature and becomes then your expression of 455 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:10.000 your own person persona and personality and all these kinds 456 00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:13.960 of aspects. But there are many other places in there 457 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:20.640 that where it's like, hey, Adolf, didn't you read this 458 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.160 part here? You know you're gonna you know, if you 459 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:27.519 do it this way, you probably destroy yourself, and so forth. 460 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:35.079 He apparently ignored that part. But he this charepol is 461 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.799 very he's a interesting character. He met Crowley one time, 462 00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.640 this German person, a friend of theirs common friend, got 463 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.119 him together to play chess. Crowley mentions him and he says, 464 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.559 I didn't like that. He says, apparently he's a pretty 465 00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.079 chess master and so forth, or just the way he 466 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:04.599 talks us. Obviously who won that? But you know, uh say, 467 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.920 but he's a very interesting person, this Aaron schriful guy. 468 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:14.559 So that's why I spent this book as a comprehensive 469 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:19.360 kind of introduction to his world, because I was really 470 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:24.159 kind of annoyed by the fact that theives other people 471 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:27.599 are just seeing his work, this particular work in the 472 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:34.760 context of of Hitler, Nazism and the Nazis stripped Chareful 473 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:39.199 of his PhD. And he had to work in obscurity 474 00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:45.079 throughout the time because he was a total decadent in 475 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.719 the extreme. He was more known as a sex expert 476 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:58.159 on sexuality and sex concerns that he was of magic, 477 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.719 you know, per se. But he did write this one 478 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:10.599 extremely insightful book and did practice this idea. But this 479 00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:15.840 idea of getting this entity is I got this other 480 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.000 book coming out called The Golder of Kla, The Golder 481 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:27.039 of Klok, which means the Magical Fellowship in Icelandic and 482 00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:35.400 it's about Icelandic magic and the pragmatic practice of Icelandic magic, 483 00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:42.440 illustrated in part through the folk tales about magic, which 484 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:52.039 are extraordinary documents because they these magicians in the Icelandic tradition, 485 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.679 they have the stories about them. But you know, magic 486 00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.280 happens in these stories, but they're not. When people think 487 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:03.000 folk tales, they think of something like grims so called 488 00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:08.679 fairy tales, and you know, there's nothing of interest there 489 00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.519 for a magician for the most parts, because things just 490 00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:15.400 happen right like it's in a cartoon or something like 491 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:19.280 the fairy godmother shows up and waves one something happens 492 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:24.360 and so. But these stories of Icelandic magicians they give 493 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:32.280 technical details and technical terminology about how the magic works, 494 00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:36.079 and it doesn't it's not about turning somebody into a 495 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:43.320 pumpkin or something. They're very realistic, very realistic descriptions of 496 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:49.800 how of magical workings and their results and how they result, 497 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:57.280 how they make results, and how people experience this, both 498 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:01.199 from within the subject of the doing it as well 499 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:05.199 as the people observing it. It's very real, very realistic. 500 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:09.360 So they do give insight into the workings of this 501 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:13.880 kind of magic, which i uh translate many years ago 502 00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:18.280 the the Golderbok, which is this sort of grimoire of 503 00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:23.960 Icelandic magic. So uh, but there you see that they 504 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:28.519 are people are getting these entities. They're called different things. Uh. 505 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.920 The pooky, for example, is one you over probably reckon 506 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:40.159 that pookyuh is uh you know. Uh. The Irish borrowed 507 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.199 this word from the from the vikings uh, and we 508 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:49.360 get it as pooka, right, but it's a Norse word 509 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.280 pooky uh. And it's a sort of an imp or a. 510 00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:57.679 It's an entity, you know. And if you uh get 511 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.280 it and and may get your friend and become one 512 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.320 with it sort of, then you know, you can work 513 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:08.559 through that power. And that's that's what you see in 514 00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:13.320 the Greek magical papyety. Also that's exactly what the early 515 00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:17.639 and this papyrus or that there'll be this working which 516 00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:21.039 is how to get this spirit, how to get this parados. 517 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:26.519 And there's a great book called Jesus the Magician written 518 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.719 by Morton Smith who was a a I never looked 519 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:31.320 at that book when I was younger because of this 520 00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:34.559 oh keep you know, what is that crazy? But it's 521 00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:41.519 really just a total study of Jesus, the stories about him. Uh, 522 00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:44.360 And said, well, what does Jesus really do? I mean, 523 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.639 every once in a while they'll preach a sermon to 524 00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:52.400 some roobs on a mountaintop. But otherwise he's performing magic. 525 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:56.960 He's a professional magician. He's a wandering healer, professional magician 526 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:02.760 that's always making his quote daily bread. Uh. And so 527 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.440 this person studies. So where do we have other things 528 00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.239 like this? Oh? Yes, well the Middle East was full 529 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:12.320 of these people at the time, and the Greek magical 530 00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.800 propriety are a record of this sort of thing and 531 00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:21.039 grimoire style. And then he said, look at this, the 532 00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:25.440 the baptism of Jesus. Okay, he's put in the water, 533 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.159 he's up, A dove comes down, boom, comes to him 534 00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.400 and says, this is my son, and who I'm well? 535 00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:38.480 Please there that exists in the Greek magical propriety. There's 536 00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:41.960 a whole ritual if we bind up a person, wrap 537 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.960 them in a big cloth on a rooftop, and so forth, 538 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.599 and and do all these things, and then a hawk 539 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.119 or a bird will come down and hit the person 540 00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.760 and say this is my son. And that's when that 541 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.440 entity enters him. When that entity enters the magician, and 542 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.119 now he can do all kinds of things. But cherycle 543 00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:11.760 does point out, I don't believe that once you get 544 00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:17.800 this thing, that you can do anything, because any all 545 00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:20.679 the all these things, if they're real, which they are, 546 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:27.119 have their own talents, abilities, natures. They're different one from 547 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:32.599 the other. So you know, you may get certain kinds 548 00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:35.599 of abilities, but certain other ones not. You know, it's 549 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.960 not like, well, I can do anything. It's just unrealistic. 550 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:46.519 But what is realistic is incredibly and unbelievably fantastic. 551 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:51.599 At least I have. 552 00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.119 Go ahead, go ahead, please please do I have. 553 00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:01.199 A quick question about rooms and forgive the of it. 554 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.719 You speak kind of a concept that of ruine consciousness, 555 00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:09.920 like it has a consciousness to it. Would you, for 556 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.559 me and the audience, would you say that a room 557 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:18.880 is a symbol, a portal, a being. And if you 558 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.400 consider the room as a conscious entity, do they have 559 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:29.039 their own separate entities? Does each room have it separate consciousness? 560 00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:34.159 The room is a mystery. A mystery is a is 561 00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:40.239 a revelation and a continuing concealment of itself. And the 562 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:44.559 reason it continuously conceals itself is it wants you to 563 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:49.320 seek it, and in seeking it you create more of it. 564 00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.000 You see if we say like, oh, here's a here's 565 00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:58.960 the revelation, like this means that that's what it means. Okay, Sam, 566 00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:01.679 you know that's it. You've been it's been revealed. You 567 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:04.079 can go on about your business. See now you know. 568 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.760 Now you know because I told you. That's not what 569 00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:12.440 the mystery does. Mystery says, here's an opening, like a 570 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.360 portal like you said, and this is a pathway to 571 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:23.440 go Osan says when he is initiated, you know, Uh 572 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:30.000 with the ordeal on Equssia. Uh, there's a say one 573 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:33.199 word led to another word, one deed led to another 574 00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:40.239 d this was leading this going, This dynamic uh, progressive 575 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:47.800 continuous pathway is the thing that the runs open and encourage. 576 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:51.559 And that's why they remain a mystery. That it's a 577 00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:58.039 roun and roon. Uh. The the mystery is uh. The 578 00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:04.159 and that that is runa if you will, is ovin'sphilia. 579 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:11.320 But he is near death. This in this interressive initiation, 580 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.440 which is done as a form of execution. That's how 581 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:22.199 they sacrifice people men. That's how the Germanic people sacrificed 582 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:28.599 humans was by hanging. And that's what our hangings said. 583 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:32.960 What why do we think of doing capital punishment by 584 00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:36.800 hanging people, isn't that kind of weird? Well, that's the 585 00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.480 way it was done, and that's the way the ancient 586 00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:46.760 Germanic people's sacrificed humans who were sacrificed well, generally criminals 587 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.320 or prisoners of war now or people who had violated 588 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.679 the divine order in some way. And the priests that 589 00:43:56.039 --> 00:44:03.440 the legions of Varus were all executed or sacrificed in 590 00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:08.280 that way. After the Battle of the Tortureburger Forest, they 591 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.840 let the women and children in the company of the 592 00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:16.840 Romans go because they weren't combatants. Now, the Romans didn't 593 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:21.360 treat the Germans so well. They killed men, women, children 594 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.400 and everybody as an act of vengeance on them. But 595 00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.840 so he is being executed, that's what's being described as 596 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.000 a human sacrifice. He's hanging on a tree, the hanging tree. 597 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:40.719 He thrust it. And by the way, that's how Stonehenge 598 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:45.760 gets its name a hinge. What does the hinge do? 599 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:49.239 It hangs a door. It's a hanging thing. And that's 600 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.679 what the Anglo Saxons were executing their prisoners of war 601 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.400 on this thing, which looked like a gallows to them, 602 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:04.400 and that's how it go its name. But anyway, he 603 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:10.480 gets near death, he's getting near death, and instead of dying, 604 00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:17.639 he meets his failures and then becomes totally and absolutely 605 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:23.280 empowered through this connection, through this union, if you will, 606 00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:31.119 with this contrasexual entity, this philia oruna, the mystery, the mystery, 607 00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:38.679 and she is always well. Mathematicians will call it asymptote, 608 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:44.199 an asymptomic thing which you can see, you can get towards, 609 00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:49.320 you can get close to, but you can never possess totally. 610 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.840 You can get closer to it, you can get more 611 00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:58.039 together with it, but never absolutely, because she keeps pulling 612 00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:04.800 you on. Final part of Gerta's foulst famously says, right 613 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:10.239 when Faust gert fules, Faust is not damned, but is 614 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:14.559 saved in the end, but saved by whom, by God, no, 615 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.280 by the spirit of the woman he had betrayed in life, 616 00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:27.119 Margaret or Mark Great Gregson. And uh, he says, she 617 00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.960 lifts him up, saves him, if you will, and you 618 00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:37.920 saved by that woman who had been in life, Gretchen, 619 00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:45.360 who is the eternal feminine which pulls us ever onwards. 620 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:52.199 Avish right, the eternal feminine and that's you know, Gerta 621 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:56.000 was not studying Germanic mythology, but he might as well. 622 00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:01.000 He had an into intuitive mind that could grasp this concept. 623 00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:06.360 But so that that's what all of that sort of thing, 624 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:09.119 that's what each one of these rooms is. Now they 625 00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:11.840 see that the order. People break their heads over the 626 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.840 order of the rooms. It's not really that hard once 627 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:20.320 you every one of the rooms are our diaddic that is, 628 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:25.159 Faith who Urus? They are similar things. Faith who is 629 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:29.840 a livestock, who can be a cattle or sheep or whatever. 630 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:34.480 Fay who and u Urus is a wild bison of 631 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:42.079 wild buffalo type creature. There's wild they're both bovine, right, 632 00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:46.480 Fay who Urus? But the one is why they're dis 633 00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:52.079 friendshimed by one principle. What is it? Tameness are domesticity 634 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:57.440 and wildness. So they're the same and they're different in 635 00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:05.679 that way. Then you have order theory. Saws ans a 636 00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:13.079 giant and the God. They're similar. They are the spiritual 637 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:18.159 entities of archetypal powers, whatever you want to call them. 638 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:25.639 But one is destructive and is bad, and one is 639 00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:32.559 divine good and so forth. So so it goes like 640 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:36.840 that throughout the twenty four, So that it's bad. That's 641 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.760 the that's the poem, if you will. It's like it's 642 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:44.280 it's a classification system. And that's where you see that. 643 00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:48.079 People say, well, Germanic peoples must have invented these rooms. 644 00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:53.280 Well they did, absolutely did, but they wasn't like made 645 00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.559 up out of nothing. It was based on the Roman alphabet. 646 00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:00.079 I mean, not the order of it, but just the 647 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:03.440 idea of it. You know, that's all a clever guy 648 00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:06.920 has to hear. It's like, look, we just yeah, make 649 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.239 a sound, you make it, you make a sign, and 650 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:12.920 you make all the sounds you have. You just got 651 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.920 to think about it and then you put them all together. 652 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:19.880 That's why I think, weren't those ancient Egyptians or those 653 00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:24.880 ancient Babylonians smart enough to do that? Oh? Yeah they were, 654 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:27.880 but they didn't want to do that because you know, 655 00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:33.079 everybody knows the computer nerd has proprietory knowledge, right, keep 656 00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:36.079 things as complex as possible. They can never get rid 657 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:40.679 of me. They need be to to to make their 658 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:43.760 records and so forth. So we're making a writing system 659 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:49.079 that's is baffling in its complexity. Can they afform and hieroglyphics? 660 00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:52.000 And so forth. When the Greeks just figured out, make 661 00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:55.840 a sound, make a sign, that's it. Every sound you 662 00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.320 may put a sign, and that's it. That's all we 663 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:03.960 gotta do, and that's writing. And they did it, greats 664 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.920 did it. And then the Germanic peoples did a similar thing. 665 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.679 But notice it's not it's not the same. They could 666 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:13.599 have just used the Roman alphabet. We use it to 667 00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.880 write our language. Why didn't they use it to write theirs? Well, 668 00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:21.679 eventually they would when Christianity came, but before that they 669 00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:25.920 had their own thing that somebody put together into a 670 00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:31.480 system which had a lore attached to it, which had 671 00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:36.800 a different order, which had a had internal poetry to it. 672 00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:41.599 And that's why these people were the poets, storytellers and 673 00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:46.719 such of their world, and continue to be so till 674 00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:50.920 the very as long as there was a living Runic traditions. 675 00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:53.920 That's why my book about the revival over the Runic 676 00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:57.960 tradition is really not about the older times when it 677 00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:04.840 was intact and it was an initiatory body of material. 678 00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:08.119 You see, because when you think about rooms were used 679 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.440 for a thousand years or more among the Germanic peoples, 680 00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:16.039 and no more than one or less than one percent 681 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:20.000 of people were ever literate in ruins. Just the presence 682 00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:24.960 of a Runic inscription callsed awe in terror. You know, 683 00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:30.599 just the looking at it was awesome and unbelievable. You know, 684 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.840 we were really taboo. You stay away from it. It's 685 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:41.559 since only the few, very very few could write. It 686 00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:45.440 was not intended for all those centuries. It was not. 687 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:52.639 It was not used for a pragmatic practical purpose, you know, ever, 688 00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.920 not until the Middle Ages a little bit later, when 689 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:02.039 the Latin alphabet was also in use. Time. But so 690 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:05.960 I just look at the that particular book, A Revival 691 00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:10.119 of the Room is about well what happened after it 692 00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:13.000 sort of died out, which it never totally did. There 693 00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.840 are these areas in Sweden, uh, where the ruins continued 694 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:23.000 to be in use. And that's where this famous in Sweden, 695 00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:27.880 famous mystic h Thomas Carlson, who may know I heard of, 696 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:32.239 wrote his dissertation on this, which he wasn't alone, and 697 00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:37.519 others have written him on Johann Bouge or Johannes Bureus 698 00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:41.719 who went out into the sticks and found people who 699 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:45.679 knew how to read and write rooms. And so I 700 00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:49.679 started to interpret these thousands of runic inscriptions which are 701 00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.519 to be found on this in the Swedish countryside. There 702 00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:57.440 are thousands of them, five thousands of some odd runic 703 00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:02.000 inscriptions on stones that were kind of baffling to people. 704 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:04.679 I thought they would make up, you know, silly ideas 705 00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:07.280 or what you know to us today, or so that 706 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:09.719 they must have been carved by Adam and Eve. You know, 707 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:14.199 they're anti Beluvian, says all. There's some kind of thing 708 00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:18.079 from the because they interpreted everything in terms of biblical lore. 709 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:23.079 But actually, you know, their own recent not to the 710 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:27.039 recent ancestors who carve these things. And he had to 711 00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:31.320 find the farmers who still knew the basics of it 712 00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:36.039 and this and the linguists started to figure it out 713 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:38.760 to say, this is what's going on, this is what 714 00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:46.840 this is. And but these rooms, uh are are just 715 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.920 and that's where you see, the most important thing we 716 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:55.079 can know about rooms directly from the tradition are the 717 00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:59.320 room poems, because these are written by people who know 718 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:05.679 this war, and so they extensively they extrapolate on the 719 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:11.159 name or the and say that's what this means is 720 00:54:11.719 --> 00:54:16.519 the symbolism is extrapolated upon in the metaphors or kimmings, 721 00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:23.159 you know, so that they give us insight, direct insight 722 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:28.679 into what these things mean. And that's one of the 723 00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:33.800 sort of not so positive aspects. Are we take it 724 00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:39.079 a lot further it should and have h of talking 725 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:48.320 about rooms, because the early room sort of writers, you know, uh, 726 00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:51.599 treated the rooms, that is in the eighties and the 727 00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:55.280 people like Ralph Blum or whatever, you know, treated the 728 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:58.519 rooms like well, they're like it's like that's it, that's 729 00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:01.280 the symbol, and that's all that we really know about it. 730 00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:03.800 And I can now make up all sorts of crap 731 00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.880 about it in which they did, and that's the way 732 00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:10.519 they were treated. Like this one thing maybe a name, 733 00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:16.000 it means something, but really there's poetic tradition that is 734 00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:20.280 attached to the Anglo Saxon room poem. There's an Icelandic 735 00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:24.559 room poem, the old Norwegian room poem, et cetera, which 736 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:30.159 tell us directly what people who knew said about it. 737 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:39.599 And that was ignored and completely overlooked by everybody early on, 738 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.480 you know, because they didn't know nothing. They didn't know 739 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:48.599 somebody like Ralph wand didn't didn't do it, didn't even 740 00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:54.159 read the Encyclopedia Britannica article on rooms or writing the book, 741 00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.840 you know, so that's the way, that's the way it 742 00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:01.599 was in the world and the culture. Ko boops. 743 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:04.880 One thing I want to ask you a little bit 744 00:56:04.960 --> 00:56:08.400 of you know more in the book you kind of 745 00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:10.599 go through like different ages and times that you look 746 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:14.800 at I guess ruins, right, And did you want to 747 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:16.519 like maybe touch on a little bit of the I mean, 748 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:18.320 obviously you want to leave some for people to you 749 00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.960 know with the book, but should be touching a little 750 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.400 bit of that if any one of those even Nazis 751 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:24.320 or whatever you want to touch on. 752 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:27.719 Yeah, yeah, Well, like I said, I mentioned this Johannes 753 00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:32.800 bureos Er uh. You know, he was in the Sailor 754 00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:36.199 around sixteen hundred and we did the research and was 755 00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:39.599 one of the founders of scientific rhueology. But he was 756 00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:44.679 also a Rosa Crucian and a mystic and so forth 757 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.840 at the time also, and so he was the first 758 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:51.360 He's sort of the archetype of what I see myself 759 00:56:51.400 --> 00:56:56.840 as as a combining the science of the day with 760 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:04.119 the with the eternal quest for the mystery. And so 761 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:09.880 that didn't get followed up on too too much historically, 762 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:15.360 but he did set the sort of cone for everything. 763 00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:20.519 But it wasn't until the late eighteen hundreds that the 764 00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:27.239 rooms were really well understood by scientists, by by linguists, 765 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:34.159 by philologists, the Grims founding so many things. The fathers 766 00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:43.280 who comparative religion, of comparative linguistics and folklore also wrote 767 00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:47.840 the first sort of scientific Billhelm Grimm wrote one of 768 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:52.159 the first scientific books on ruins, also in the early 769 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:59.840 eighteen hundreds. But that's a constant saga that I carry 770 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:05.119 in this book is the interplay, a non interplay between 771 00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:10.199 what we really know about rooms in the sense of 772 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:16.039 the mundane aspects of it, of this tradition as a 773 00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:25.239 linguistic phenomenon, and what mystic mathematicians, etc. Make of it, 774 00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:31.199 and hundreds of years of frankly, a lot of confusion, right, 775 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.320 and that confusion really to my way thinking. I mean, 776 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:42.000 you know, I don't want to sound braggadocious here, because 777 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:44.239 it could have been done by a lot of people. 778 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:48.599 But the point is it was just never done until 779 00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:54.000 I did it, you know, which is to remarry these 780 00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:59.280 two things together, which had been for his day and 781 00:58:59.360 --> 00:59:05.000 time put together by Johann Body around sixteen hundred, but 782 00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:11.760 never since then were the two impulses put together. And 783 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.599 you're called the podcast here is called a cult rejects. 784 00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:19.639 Of course that you must know that in a way, 785 00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:26.159 that's a redundancy, right, because a cult knowledge is rejected 786 00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:31.000 knowledge by definition. Okay, you know that. But on the 787 00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:36.519 other hand, well within the orthodoxies of the occult or whatever, 788 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:38.679 you could have people who are not rejected, who are 789 00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:41.639 orthodox and or calling the line, you know, with what 790 00:59:41.719 --> 00:59:44.079 the group says you ought to think, believe, and do. 791 00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:48.199 That's one of the things you were at the present 792 00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:52.519 moment or speaking of, one of the greatest rejects that 793 00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.440 you'll ever speak to. Because I'm rejected by everyone. I mean, 794 00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.920 there are people who appreciate it. I mean, and I 795 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:05.400 appreciate that that people do. That's my I'm happy to 796 01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:11.280 have that understanding. It's not something I'm running from. But 797 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:17.559 the academic world rejects me because I take this kind 798 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:22.559 of study and I follow my mentor in saying and thinking, 799 01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:30.519 we are doing things here which are serious, important and meaningful. 800 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:34.519 And most academics today when you got into whether you're 801 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:37.320 talking about a viking or a room, it's saying, oh, 802 01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.599 it's a bunch of silly nonsense, but it's a great 803 01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:42.360 way to make a living, you know. And as long 804 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:45.480 as I keep towing the line here at the academic 805 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:49.239 department and say the right things and have the right 806 01:00:49.280 --> 01:00:52.320 opinions and feelings and you know, thoughts, feelings and so forth, 807 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:54.559 you know, I can keep this job. And they do. 808 01:00:56.360 --> 01:01:06.119 And so that's I'm rejected because I think it means 809 01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:10.880 something and it's important and meaningful in the academic world. 810 01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:18.880 In the occult world, I generally rejected because I have 811 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:25.679 this notion of authenticity and the idea that it's something 812 01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:30.679 that belongs to us, that it's this idea that's politically 813 01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:34.360 incorrect to say that the body and the soul and 814 01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:38.719 the spirit are unified. They said, well, that's fine as 815 01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:41.440 long as you're talking about you here right now, sitting 816 01:01:41.480 --> 01:01:44.599 in the yoga studio. But at the point where you 817 01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:49.719 say my father, my grandfather and all of my ancestors 818 01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:54.840 are all connected and holistically connected to me, similarly, that 819 01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:00.719 sounds racist to me. And that's the term that way. 820 01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:05.679 Once time, early on, my one of my lieutenants, if 821 01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:12.519 you will, uh run gild member uh well, went over 822 01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:17.599 and to a place where Ralph Blum was giving a talk, 823 01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:21.320 you know, selling his latest book. And I said, I 824 01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.440 told this guy footh Arc had come out by them 825 01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:27.400 by a year or so. And I told this guy 826 01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:29.760 to go over to this place as a venue where 827 01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:32.719 this guy was speaking, just across the street from the university. 828 01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:35.840 And uh, you know, the question and answered for it 829 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.000 comes up, ask him if he's ever heard of Edward Thorson. 830 01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:43.559 And so this guy does that question. I'm not there, 831 01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:45.880 I'm going to show up later. 832 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:47.440 Uh. 833 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:52.119 And he's asks him the question, and Ralph Blum says, yeah, 834 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:59.000 I've heard he's a fascist. Uh. And this is like, 835 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:02.119 you know, a year two after Food Art had come out. 836 01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:06.119 But I was already known, you know, even before the 837 01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:10.800 book was published. In the circles of you know, the 838 01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:15.360 occult world. Let's just call them whatever with the Wickens. 839 01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:19.159 This isn't the that's and the other things and what 840 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:23.360 it was that So this animosity towards me and my 841 01:03:23.480 --> 01:03:27.559 approach was there from the beginning. And the reason for 842 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:33.039 this rejection and so forth is the idea of this authenticity. 843 01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:37.840 One thing people say, well, generally in the occult world, 844 01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:42.519 you find that there are people who have who like 845 01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:47.920 things to be extremely vague, and while insisting they are 846 01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.519 a tradition that's been handed down from the Stone Age, 847 01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:56.199 and we have the real tradition, and well it looks 848 01:03:56.199 --> 01:03:59.000 a whole lot like Ala Crowley to me. Well, no, no, no, 849 01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:01.519 it's from the Stone Age, you know, that kind of 850 01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:07.800 a thing. And so uh as Aza Cruz, the kind 851 01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:10.880 of was mentioned by one of the critics early on 852 01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:15.880 uh is saying it's that religion with homework, you know, 853 01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:23.480 because we say, look, we can find out important things, 854 01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:30.159 really meaningful, profound things by studying old languages and old 855 01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:34.519 poetic texts and so forth. There right here, they've just 856 01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:40.079 been ignored and not used in favor of something that 857 01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:44.400 nobody's ever heard of before. Uhh, I had a book. 858 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.719 I have a book, a famous, a famous book, but 859 01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:52.639 a book called Hermetic Magic cam I have seen and 860 01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:56.320 uh I submitted that book to Llewellyn because I rarely 861 01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:59.159 wrote it for them. Karl Weshke and I were really 862 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.079 good buddies. Nobody in his company like me at all, 863 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:07.800 but he did so. But then he was kind of 864 01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:10.960 a you know, it's had to make the company men happy, 865 01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:15.239 and so he was sent it around to people in 866 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.760 his company to say, what about this book or medic 867 01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:21.320 magic that's a and they said, well, we don't like it. 868 01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:24.440 Why is that I have all these letters? You know 869 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:29.719 this as well? He quotes from German sources we've never 870 01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:33.800 heard of, and he says things we've never heard before. 871 01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:43.079 That was grounds for rejection in the occult orthodoxy. You see, 872 01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:47.719 you would think, wouldn't you think that someone who's interested 873 01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:52.239 in what is hidden, who's interested in the occult in quotes, 874 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:56.599 would want to hear something that they'd never heard before, 875 01:05:57.079 --> 01:06:00.920 would want to get something new in sight. But no, 876 01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:05.039 that's not true. What people want to hear is what 877 01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:09.239 they already know. That makes them happy, that makes them 878 01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:12.519 think you're really a clever, intelligent man. 879 01:06:12.719 --> 01:06:14.280 I'll talk to myself all day if I want to 880 01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:16.320 do that. 881 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:19.239 But that is the way I'm not saying that. You know, 882 01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:22.199 it's sort of a true is. But when you get 883 01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:25.360 into it like this little and I just told you, 884 01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:29.760 see how it works, how it is real, you know. 885 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.360 And of course that's one of the things that's about 886 01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:36.960 self publishing. The world we live in now is kind 887 01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:40.800 of liberated people now, it's a free for all, and 888 01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:43.320 that's one of one of my old persons, we're entering 889 01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:46.239 into a new dark age, and he saw, foresaw what 890 01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.719 is happening, that the dark age will be the exception 891 01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:54.559 of it, and its nature will be much that the 892 01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:58.840 truth or the good stuff, let's just say, is so 893 01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:04.920 buried under a bunch of you know, goal that it 894 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:07.800 will be impossible to find. You know, it's not that 895 01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:14.639 it's not there, it's that it's been swamped by things. 896 01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:22.480 And then who trains the mind of the young heads 897 01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:28.000 full of mush to be able to discriminate? That is eliminated. 898 01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:34.719 Also the guy critical thinking that we're not using the 899 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:40.960 Frontfort school definition of critical, but their actual definition of 900 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:46.639 critical with criteria using critical thinking of skills to say 901 01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:51.320 this is more reliable than that, and this is why, 902 01:07:51.400 --> 01:07:56.480 and so forth. Those skills have been greatly diminished in 903 01:07:56.639 --> 01:08:04.559 our society, and the supply of uh craziness has been 904 01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:08.800 so amped up that I would say that that professor 905 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:12.960 was a prophetic man saying we are entering into a 906 01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:16.680 new dark age. Masquerading is in a world of enlightenment. 907 01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:19.760 Oh man, just mascuerading. 908 01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:25.439 Yeah, yeah, that's but it's still but we But but 909 01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:31.880 I think that in the that there could be that 910 01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:35.000 that that there is good things on the horizon, in 911 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:40.680 the sense that naturally the missing element is the idea 912 01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:47.600 of of of education, of training minds that to think 913 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:54.039 in the good old fashion critical way with good evidence 914 01:08:54.079 --> 01:08:59.680 and good uh theories and so forth that get at 915 01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:05.800 the truth about what is meaningful, important and so forth, 916 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:08.359 that sort of thing. And to that end, this is 917 01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:11.880 my greatest project coming up. I'm just going starting it 918 01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:18.399 a thing called the wood Harrow School, in which I 919 01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:22.119 now I'm seventy two years old. I could not get 920 01:09:22.119 --> 01:09:25.159 a job in academia for the reasons I've kind of 921 01:09:25.399 --> 01:09:30.439 alluded to. But I wrote a lot of books, over 922 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:38.720 fifty of them now, but I never got to teach, 923 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:42.159 you know what I was trained to teach. And so 924 01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:46.720 now with the technology that exists, I am going to 925 01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:49.399 do this thing. Going to have a school. We're going 926 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:52.319 to have basic courses, and I'm going to teach all 927 01:09:52.359 --> 01:09:55.199 of the things that I was taught and that I 928 01:09:55.239 --> 01:10:00.880 also taught for several years in the university, UH, and 929 01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:11.960 have a coherent curriculum for the training of someone in 930 01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:17.640 old Germanic called Germanic studies, you know. UH. For example, 931 01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:22.680 my professor Paulmer i mentioned before, had this whole series 932 01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:28.600 of courses on early Germanic culture of migration age, Viking age, 933 01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:32.880 you know, whole courses in that uh. And I took everything. 934 01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:36.239 And he, of course, a man like that in our 935 01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:40.720 academic world are referred to in the German world as 936 01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:45.520 he is my doctor father, they call him, which is 937 01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:49.039 a doctor father. He is your father in academia. He 938 01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:54.239 is you know, Alma mater is your university. But then 939 01:10:54.319 --> 01:11:00.079 you have a doctor father who is your sort of 940 01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:04.119 the man who initiates you and who is your mentor. 941 01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:09.279 And so a lot of what I do is a 942 01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:15.920 carrying on of his teaching to me, and I will 943 01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.279 I won't pass that on. And now I'm seventy two 944 01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:23.760 years old, but a lot of guys were died at 945 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:29.720 that age, you know. Uh. And so this is my 946 01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:36.119 big project on the horizons is to do this recording 947 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:39.800 me complete. It's not just like I hear these things 948 01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:43.159 on the internet. I'm going to teach you about old 949 01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:46.119 Germanic tradition or whatever it is. They say is that 950 01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:50.920 it's going to be six hours of lecture. You don't 951 01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:54.119 believe that what's going to happen here is Selby's Are 952 01:11:54.159 --> 01:12:00.199 you kidding me? Is that a university course even one? 953 01:12:00.720 --> 01:12:02.960 No, that's like three classes. 954 01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:10.840 Weeks for that week, three hours for sixteen weeks. Listen, 955 01:12:10.960 --> 01:12:13.840 and that's I'm not going to short change people. That's 956 01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:17.680 what they're going to get. They're that kind and level 957 01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:25.159 of teaching. And I did teach at the university level 958 01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:30.920 for five years, and so I'm well aware of how 959 01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:36.359 it's done and what to do. But it's not being 960 01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:40.479 Despite the fact that the technology exists for this kind 961 01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:43.239 of thing, no one is doing it. And the reason 962 01:12:43.399 --> 01:12:48.439 why they're not doing it is because the younger generation 963 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:54.000 people still have the energy to do it, weren't taught 964 01:12:54.039 --> 01:13:01.520 that way, you know, And so there's only the old school, 965 01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:04.479 the old geezers. I had a couple of friends who 966 01:13:05.079 --> 01:13:09.479 caught the the old guard, you know, at the last minute, 967 01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:13.359 just before they retired, and we got some people, you know, 968 01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:17.439 through the PhD program. That's one of the things about 969 01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:21.319 the Rune Guild. I was just incredibly pleased to see. 970 01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:24.039 It wasn't something I said, this is what you ought 971 01:13:24.039 --> 01:13:26.479 to do. Is just kind of leading by example. I 972 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:34.119 suppose that we have seven PhDs in our midst, you know, 973 01:13:34.640 --> 01:13:37.640 from major universities. Now, one time I was at a 974 01:13:37.840 --> 01:13:41.239 sort of this pagan gathering and this guy was there 975 01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:44.159 and you know, just this old guy who's older than 976 01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:46.880 me at the time that he had was a druid. 977 01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:49.399 He said that he had like a straw hat with 978 01:13:49.479 --> 01:13:53.840 a bunch of artificial flowers around, you know, the rim 979 01:13:53.960 --> 01:13:57.920 of the hat, and uh, this is doctor flowers, it's all. 980 01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:01.960 I'm a PhD also, And I said, oh, and I 981 01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:06.319 asked the natural question, where did you go to school? 982 01:14:06.479 --> 01:14:08.039 You know, I mean, that's what your first question you 983 01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:10.239 want is where was you go? And he goes and 984 01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:12.319 he looks up, you know, kind of glances up in 985 01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:16.720 the skies, go oh, what was the name of that place? 986 01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:20.079 Of course it was some kind of you know, correspondence 987 01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:24.119 course or bumpthing. You know, this is like decades ago, 988 01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.720 so it wasn't on the internet, I don't think. But 989 01:14:27.359 --> 01:14:30.000 you know, that was selling the areas you're a doctor 990 01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.600 of druidism, you know, or whatever. And of course that's 991 01:14:33.640 --> 01:14:37.960 become quite common because but you can only pass on 992 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:41.159 what you got. It's kind of like that thing with 993 01:14:41.319 --> 01:14:45.760 the magical entities. I was talking as you can only 994 01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:49.800 be who you, who's informing you. I mean, there's a 995 01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:54.680 chain of and that's what tradition is all about. It's 996 01:14:54.720 --> 01:15:00.640 not so many people focus on papers and I got 997 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:04.239 a license to do this, you know, from so and so. 998 01:15:04.399 --> 01:15:07.039 You know, some kind of Masonic thing, that kind of 999 01:15:07.039 --> 01:15:14.159 a deal. But it's no, It's about people connection real beings, 1000 01:15:14.199 --> 01:15:19.840 talking about animism, real beings and your connection to them. 1001 01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:24.199 They could be human, they could be something other than human. 1002 01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:30.199 My connection first started with getting the spirit when when 1003 01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:34.520 Odin spoke to me, there's nothing new was shocking for 1004 01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:38.279 anyone here to hear. I've told a story many times 1005 01:15:38.399 --> 01:15:43.319 about when I heard the word oruna, when the old 1006 01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:47.439 man whispered in my ear, this is it. And like 1007 01:15:47.479 --> 01:15:51.399 I always say, when a god speaks to you for real, 1008 01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:57.319 all he needs is one word if it's a real 1009 01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:05.479 and you'll spend the rest of your life understand that word. 1010 01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:13.279 Won't be like well, I channeled this prit this MP 1011 01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:17.159 and dictated this whole big book to me. I don't 1012 01:16:17.319 --> 01:16:18.720 I can't understand what it means. 1013 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:22.680 But you know, you know, I've heard of the magicians 1014 01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:23.600 say that I'm. 1015 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:25.720 Talking about Crowley here, I'm talking about you know, the 1016 01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:30.039 people who you know, the channeled being back in the 1017 01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:32.720 eighties or whenever it was, you know, they were these 1018 01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:39.720 long yeah uh books you know of wisdom from these 1019 01:16:40.159 --> 01:16:44.000 extraterrestrial beings. That it sounded a whole life like Madam 1020 01:16:44.039 --> 01:16:46.079 Blotsky to me. You know. 1021 01:16:47.079 --> 01:16:52.079 So that's interesting what you said about trying to figure 1022 01:16:52.079 --> 01:16:55.840 out that name. I've heard. I've kind of heard other magicians. 1023 01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:59.600 I guess I say that before. So when you said that, 1024 01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:05.560 I was like, I've heard that. Very interesting. Uh, Lisa, 1025 01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:08.520 did you say you had another question about something? 1026 01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:10.720 YEAHHLER had another question. 1027 01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:15.000 I had a question. Yeah, sure, I can jump in 1028 01:17:16.119 --> 01:17:16.640 real quick. 1029 01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:17.119 Uh. 1030 01:17:17.840 --> 01:17:20.439 And this sounds maybe like a narrow question, but I 1031 01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:23.600 think it actually has kind a broad application to magical 1032 01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:24.760 practice and things. 1033 01:17:25.319 --> 01:17:25.520 Uh. 1034 01:17:25.560 --> 01:17:28.079 You've written in a few places particularly. The one that 1035 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:30.000 comes to mind is in footh Arc when you're talking 1036 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:33.079 about the Dogaus Route, you mentioned the mystery of Odin 1037 01:17:33.920 --> 01:17:37.479 as being this kind of central You've used the word omnijective. 1038 01:17:37.479 --> 01:17:42.000 I think elsewhere this sort of this omnijective point at 1039 01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:45.640 which polarities, dualities are sort of collapsed. And you've written 1040 01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:48.439 about this not just as an interesting kind of conceptual idea, 1041 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:52.000 but as a point of experience too, So it's actually 1042 01:17:52.000 --> 01:17:55.880 an exponentially you know, uh state. And I was wondering 1043 01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:58.359 because immediately, based on the language that you used to 1044 01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:02.319 describe this, it evoked the non duality, of the non 1045 01:18:02.399 --> 01:18:06.199 dualism that we encounter so often in an Eastern context. 1046 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:09.920 And I'm wondering if these things are these things equivalent, 1047 01:18:10.960 --> 01:18:13.079 and if they're not equivalent, what distinctives do we need 1048 01:18:13.119 --> 01:18:16.479 to keep in mind to prevent kind of obliterating the 1049 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:18.800 particularities in homogenization. 1050 01:18:20.279 --> 01:18:22.920 Well, there is of course a connection between the so 1051 01:18:23.119 --> 01:18:29.399 called East and West, and that's what becomes immediately obvious 1052 01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:37.000 when one gets into Indo European studies. And also that 1053 01:18:37.199 --> 01:18:42.880 is that the Veda, the Veda and the Edda are 1054 01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:50.439 very closely related, not in substance, although there's a auto Veda, 1055 01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:54.920 there is a passage which is almost word for word 1056 01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:59.800 a spell or an incantation that is, we know from 1057 01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:05.680 Manic magic just about the bone to bone and send 1058 01:19:05.760 --> 01:19:08.079 you to sin you in the healings. So this is 1059 01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:12.880 almost exact same thing because they are very close to 1060 01:19:12.920 --> 01:19:16.680 one another. And so the idea of this East West 1061 01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:20.600 and sort of a nineteenth century when when we discovered 1062 01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:24.880 I mean we the Europeans discovered the East. You know, 1063 01:19:25.199 --> 01:19:29.520 when they figured out, hey, Sanskrit is related to our language. 1064 01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:35.399 Is no thing uh uh that there's really not. As 1065 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:38.960 I pointed out, I tried to emphasize in my I 1066 01:19:38.960 --> 01:19:41.199 think I did it in the Lords of Left Hand Path. 1067 01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:45.079 You know that there's really uh. East and West is 1068 01:19:45.119 --> 01:19:49.079 a false dichotomy. You could say China or you know, 1069 01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:55.199 the Far East is different. But India and the Indian 1070 01:19:55.319 --> 01:20:00.920 ideas about these dualities, there's coruxier question the idea of 1071 01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:09.119 these sort of duality between let's just say any duality 1072 01:20:10.760 --> 01:20:14.000 is something that is something that is a part of 1073 01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:20.000 people's thinking about overcoming it, about experiencing it, about using it, 1074 01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:24.920 but about it being there is something very close to 1075 01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:30.800 whether you see the Germanic tradition, it's heavily imbued with 1076 01:20:30.920 --> 01:20:37.079 this idea of duality. Look at the eight Thrust, this 1077 01:20:37.239 --> 01:20:42.119 idea of these nine worlds and how they are arranged. Okay, 1078 01:20:42.600 --> 01:20:46.000 so there is an upper world, oscar, there's a lower 1079 01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:50.439 the hell between up and down, between east and west, 1080 01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:58.079 between north and south. All of these things are dualism. Okay, 1081 01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:01.920 but they're not done to say this one is good 1082 01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:05.600 and this one is bad. They are just kind of 1083 01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:12.920 the sources of energy, right energy. Uh, when when you 1084 01:21:13.399 --> 01:21:19.680 like electra electro magnetic electricity, magnetism, these kinds of things 1085 01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:24.520 are sources of energy. What people the moralistic, the monarchy 1086 01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:29.840 and kind of perversion. Uh, to give a bad name 1087 01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:33.079 to a good word. But uh, you know the idea 1088 01:21:33.159 --> 01:21:40.600 that that there is something good and bad inheriting up 1089 01:21:40.640 --> 01:21:42.760 and down in east and west. It one has to 1090 01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:44.520 be good and one has to be bad. Now, I'm 1091 01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:47.840 a great fan of written three books on the idea 1092 01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:54.720 of Mosdism, the actual uh Iranian dualism, which was not 1093 01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:58.600 good and bad. But it is good and bad, but 1094 01:21:58.680 --> 01:22:02.399 it's not between the things that people normally think of 1095 01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:08.359 as that way. That is, it's a moral dualism. This 1096 01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:14.399 even the famous, most famous critic of good and evil, Preetrichnietzsche, 1097 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:20.760 So beyond good and evil, Well, he didn't say he 1098 01:22:20.920 --> 01:22:23.920 was railing against a hundred different things that he thought 1099 01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:27.560 were bad and a hundred other ones he thought were good. 1100 01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:30.319 He didn't really go beyond the good and the bad. 1101 01:22:31.159 --> 01:22:38.600 He was criticizing the idea of Christian morality, but not 1102 01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:43.840 necessarily that there's something there's nothing good about the slaves 1103 01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:47.119 morality that's bad. You know, we don't want to have 1104 01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:50.560 this other thing. So he was not really rejecting the 1105 01:22:50.680 --> 01:22:55.319 idea of having a dualism between good and bad things, 1106 01:22:55.880 --> 01:23:02.039 but rather simply between this idea of being morally good 1107 01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:07.920 and morally bad. So this omnijective idea is that Oathen 1108 01:23:09.399 --> 01:23:13.000 is one that doesn't say, okay, one is good, one 1109 01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:18.479 is bad. No, they are both sources of power. And 1110 01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:24.520 so you reach out from your central position to grasp 1111 01:23:26.119 --> 01:23:30.439 the electro and the magnetic, and you grasp them and 1112 01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:36.279 you bring them into yourself, and you charge yourself with 1113 01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:43.560 these polarized powers. And so that is what brings this 1114 01:23:44.079 --> 01:23:48.560 dualism to a point of say, a source of power 1115 01:23:48.760 --> 01:23:55.199 and of energy, not of moralizing between good and evil, 1116 01:23:55.319 --> 01:24:00.159 rejecting one in favor of the other, et cetera. Uh. 1117 01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:08.640 But we are full of UH in a Germanic mythology, 1118 01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:13.520 ideas of more morality and and good and bad and 1119 01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:18.600 so forth. Uh. But we see in the person of Oden, 1120 01:24:19.159 --> 01:24:26.399 the archetype of Oden. We see the sort of the 1121 01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:32.600 the real UH, a kind of a criminal you know. 1122 01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:37.239 I mean, but someone who has to take responsibility for 1123 01:24:37.319 --> 01:24:43.039 his crimes. What does Oden do well? One thing? For example, 1124 01:24:43.319 --> 01:24:50.520 he begins the world by killing a kinsman. Who is 1125 01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:55.640 this giant? Who who is the universe as it were, 1126 01:24:55.880 --> 01:25:02.399 the body of the universe. Uh. But he says ultimate 1127 01:25:02.479 --> 01:25:07.279 ancestores like his great granddaddy, let's say. And he looks 1128 01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:13.840 at this creature's this entities world that he has, and 1129 01:25:13.880 --> 01:25:17.760 he says, I can do better. I can make a 1130 01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:25.039 better world than this one than this swamp of degradation 1131 01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:30.880 that you've got here, this chaos of nonsense. I can 1132 01:25:31.239 --> 01:25:33.600 make a better world. And so I'm going to kill you, 1133 01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:37.439 and I'm going to chop you up, and I'm going 1134 01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:41.960 to use your body to create a more ordered, more 1135 01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:49.439 beautiful creation. And that's the world we live in now, 1136 01:25:50.439 --> 01:25:55.439 with all of the miraculous spectacle of the sky, of 1137 01:25:55.479 --> 01:25:58.840 the night sky of the sun and the moon, and 1138 01:25:58.880 --> 01:26:03.239 how they are perfect balance with one another, and all 1139 01:26:03.279 --> 01:26:08.359 the things we experienced daily. Uh. Uh, that this beauty 1140 01:26:08.800 --> 01:26:15.079 that this divine entity creating. Uh. You know the whole 1141 01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:20.560 controversy that people or the gray John about between intelligent 1142 01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:24.279 design and creation and the atheists saying, oh, it's just 1143 01:26:24.319 --> 01:26:26.880 a bunch of you know, things just happened to come 1144 01:26:26.920 --> 01:26:30.680 together this way, and that whole debate, if you will, 1145 01:26:31.239 --> 01:26:36.520 between God and intelligent design and evolution, and you look 1146 01:26:36.560 --> 01:26:39.520 at the Germanic tradition, and so we know all about 1147 01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:44.239 that already. Uh we us vikings here that people at 1148 01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:48.239 that academy makes so much fun of. You know, well 1149 01:26:48.279 --> 01:26:56.399 we we we know young evolution occurred without an intelligent design, 1150 01:26:57.239 --> 01:27:00.399 and it went a certain way, a certain dens distance. 1151 01:27:01.840 --> 01:27:14.479 But then something happened and mind consciousness coalesced and became 1152 01:27:15.399 --> 01:27:20.359 an active force in the universe, and it destroyed what 1153 01:27:20.560 --> 01:27:28.760 existed and recreated it intelligently. That's what the heada tells us. 1154 01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:37.920 There was something there, something that evolved, coalesced, crystallized and 1155 01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:43.880 acted in a conscious way and recreated the world in 1156 01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:54.079 a more sensible, intelligent, and beautiful way. And that's what 1157 01:27:54.199 --> 01:28:00.800 we live in now. And that's the battle that Othen 1158 01:28:00.920 --> 01:28:05.920 carries out is constantly trying to maintain. It's not a 1159 01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:11.119 trying to maintain the good, the good order, the good 1160 01:28:11.239 --> 01:28:17.199 social order, the good physical and order, and so forth 1161 01:28:17.239 --> 01:28:22.359 and so and so. That is what that mythology is about. 1162 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:27.119 And bring the ruins back into it. That is a 1163 01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:33.640 similarly say like, well, we these Romans have a writing system, 1164 01:28:33.640 --> 01:28:38.039 but it's devoid of anything poetic or beautiful as we 1165 01:28:38.159 --> 01:28:42.560 understand it. And so let's take that idea that they 1166 01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:48.399 just think of as just a mundane, pragmatic thing that 1167 01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:52.760 they got from the Greeks and so forth, and let's 1168 01:28:52.840 --> 01:28:58.399 recreate it in a more beautiful and meaningful way. And 1169 01:28:58.439 --> 01:29:03.399 that's what the runic system is for them and for 1170 01:29:03.479 --> 01:29:06.199 us if we rediscover it. It's which we have now. 1171 01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:18.239 But these oden is the embodiment. There's a great academic 1172 01:29:18.399 --> 01:29:22.560 article from the early seventies now called the Psychological and 1173 01:29:22.640 --> 01:29:27.560 Mythic Unity of the God odin kind of a union approach. 1174 01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:32.640 Uh and uh they're they're the The author Richard Auld 1175 01:29:33.239 --> 01:29:39.520 points out that this God is a dualistic I mean, 1176 01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:43.159 it wasn't what I wrote in fruth Art was influenced 1177 01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:48.279 by this book, which is this article, which is these 1178 01:29:48.640 --> 01:29:54.840 dualities are intense. They're not done away with it bye 1179 01:29:54.840 --> 01:30:01.319 bye by homogenizing them into a milk sup ground. No, 1180 01:30:01.479 --> 01:30:05.399 that's not it. You bring these the full power of 1181 01:30:06.720 --> 01:30:09.560 one side and the full power of the other together 1182 01:30:09.800 --> 01:30:15.239 and there you have a dynamic explosion of energy bringing 1183 01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:20.119 these things together. So that's what the dualism. Now, you 1184 01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:26.560 don't generally find that approach as the aim of the 1185 01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:30.600 so called Eastern ideas. I think probably originally it was 1186 01:30:30.640 --> 01:30:35.399 something like that. But of course, the religion of the 1187 01:30:35.479 --> 01:30:39.479 rug Veda, you know, and the religion of Hinduism, which 1188 01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:44.000 is its direct descendant, are very different from one another. 1189 01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:48.439 You know, I mean the vading, the sacrifice, so for 1190 01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:54.479 what they sacrifice for for long life and prosperity. They 1191 01:30:54.560 --> 01:31:01.840 thought the people of the Arian what I classes when 1192 01:31:01.840 --> 01:31:06.079 these people were like, you know, vaded cowboys. These were cowboys. 1193 01:31:06.760 --> 01:31:13.079 They were cattle herding, meat eating. They've been right at home, 1194 01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:16.479 you know, in the Yellowstone set right, these guys that 1195 01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:26.359 invaded India, they were cowboys and they their religion and 1196 01:31:26.439 --> 01:31:29.680 Hinduism are very different from one another. Even though the 1197 01:31:30.359 --> 01:31:33.600 Hindu says the Ruveda is the foundation of the religion, 1198 01:31:33.760 --> 01:31:37.439 it has been completely reinterpreted to say that this world 1199 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:41.600 is a world of sorrow, some sorrow, and we want 1200 01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:44.640 to get out of it. Please do not. I don't 1201 01:31:44.680 --> 01:31:48.640 want to be reborn in this hellhole of earth. Whereas 1202 01:31:48.680 --> 01:31:53.399 the original idea is this world do we live in 1203 01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:59.760 is as close to paradise as you'll ever find, you know, 1204 01:32:00.159 --> 01:32:02.760 is wonderful and beautiful, and we want to be here 1205 01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:07.640 and we want to stay here. There's a passage, you 1206 01:32:07.640 --> 01:32:13.000 know in the Edda which has where Brindhi famous brand 1207 01:32:13.039 --> 01:32:19.439 him is being cursed by hug Need is saying she's 1208 01:32:19.479 --> 01:32:24.079 being being burned on the pyre with sig, which is, 1209 01:32:24.239 --> 01:32:27.880 let's do you find in India? In there this idea 1210 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:32.920 of Suti where the wife is sacrificed with the husband. 1211 01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:38.520 You know, there's a very ancient thing and he says 1212 01:32:38.560 --> 01:32:41.319 to her head a curse form. He says, may she 1213 01:32:41.800 --> 01:32:46.560 never be reborn in this world, you know, because that 1214 01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:49.880 would be the most horrible thing because what people want 1215 01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:53.800 to be is reborn here. That's the reward, that's the good. 1216 01:32:54.079 --> 01:32:58.319 That's what this valhalla symbol and metaphor is all about, 1217 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:01.920 you know about well men will they rise up and 1218 01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:05.199 they'll fight, and they'll die, and they'll be reborn the next 1219 01:33:05.279 --> 01:33:08.920 day and start all over again. You know, that's just 1220 01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:13.319 saying that's that kind of life, that kind of dynam 1221 01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:16.560 is and that sort of life force and living and 1222 01:33:16.600 --> 01:33:21.319 being and and and it's great. We love it where 1223 01:33:21.319 --> 01:33:23.159 we are now, we love it. We want to keep 1224 01:33:23.199 --> 01:33:27.520 it going, we want this to continue. You know. That 1225 01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:33.319 was their attitude. It's an attitude of not uh, of 1226 01:33:34.079 --> 01:33:38.159 getting away from this world, but they're staying here and 1227 01:33:38.760 --> 01:33:46.279 being here, uh, and that that's fundamentally different. So that's 1228 01:33:46.359 --> 01:33:48.640 one of the things where you know, when you study 1229 01:33:48.680 --> 01:33:52.600 the history of religion, you see that, you know, things 1230 01:33:52.600 --> 01:33:55.600 haven't always been the way they appear to be, and 1231 01:33:56.039 --> 01:33:58.279 a lot of things that you think are far apart 1232 01:33:58.279 --> 01:34:02.800 are really quite close. You know. The Germanic world, Celtic 1233 01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:10.119 world also was profoundly affected by the invasions of the 1234 01:34:10.279 --> 01:34:14.640 of the Iranian peoples, uh, the Sarmatians and the Scythians, 1235 01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:18.960 who when we think of Iranian, we think of the Persians, 1236 01:34:18.960 --> 01:34:22.800 and they really didn't, you know, that's what they looked like. 1237 01:34:22.960 --> 01:34:27.920 But anyway, these people were uh were step horsemen, you know, 1238 01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:32.800 the step people, which were like the originally into Europeans themselves. Uh. 1239 01:34:32.920 --> 01:34:36.760 And they were there in Europe uh at the time. 1240 01:34:36.920 --> 01:34:42.039 And Tacitus mentions the Sarmatians and the Germanic people and uh, 1241 01:34:43.439 --> 01:34:48.640 but there a lot of the ideas that they brought 1242 01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:53.880 in and reinforced among the Celts, and then the Germanic 1243 01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:57.800 people were profound and some of the things about the 1244 01:34:58.159 --> 01:35:03.600 uh cosmology and all sorts of things were Scythian or 1245 01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:08.000 Sarmatian in origin, it seems. And one of the great 1246 01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:12.680 sort of signposts of this is that the art form, 1247 01:35:12.960 --> 01:35:17.039 the interlace art form, and things we associate with Celtic 1248 01:35:17.119 --> 01:35:24.279 and Germanic art are directly of Sarmatian origin, which were 1249 01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:30.439 these Iranian peoples, and they had a profound effect. I 1250 01:35:30.479 --> 01:35:33.840 wrote an article in the journal Tear of which they 1251 01:35:33.880 --> 01:35:42.560 heard of about the Germanic and Iranian religions and traditions 1252 01:35:42.600 --> 01:35:47.279 and so forth in their comparison, many huge catalog the 1253 01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:52.279 catalog of details. But you know the roosters. I just 1254 01:35:52.319 --> 01:35:54.760 got a rooster where our friend of ours died and 1255 01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:57.199 we had a rooster there, and so we brought him home. 1256 01:35:57.600 --> 01:36:00.359 So I've had this rooster for a while, and so 1257 01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:03.279 I named him Potto darsh, which is the Persian war. 1258 01:36:03.800 --> 01:36:07.640 They foresees the dawn, you know these I learned that 1259 01:36:07.680 --> 01:36:13.800 the roosters start crowing like hours before the sun comes up. 1260 01:36:13.840 --> 01:36:17.000 They're not responding. They know. It's like a couple of hours. 1261 01:36:17.039 --> 01:36:20.039 He starts about four o'clock in the morning. And that's 1262 01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:24.800 what this thing is like. The rooster foresees the coming 1263 01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:30.359 of day and it calls people to action. And that's 1264 01:36:30.439 --> 01:36:34.439 what you see in the Edda and in this Iranian 1265 01:36:34.479 --> 01:36:38.479 tradition in the Avesta, and that's the power and the 1266 01:36:38.520 --> 01:36:41.479 meaning of the rooster is just what appears to be 1267 01:36:41.560 --> 01:36:46.199 a trivial, you know, but you find that they were 1268 01:36:46.239 --> 01:36:51.319 extremely important to the Iranian people. Uh. The Greeks called 1269 01:36:51.359 --> 01:36:55.840 the rooster the Persian bird. It was so important. But uh, 1270 01:36:56.560 --> 01:37:00.479 the uh. But these kind of little trivial things that 1271 01:37:00.560 --> 01:37:03.279 they will you'll see this one after the other that 1272 01:37:03.359 --> 01:37:07.359 you find in the Norse tradition and in the Iranian tradition, 1273 01:37:07.840 --> 01:37:10.880 which seems so far apart, you know, people say, how 1274 01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:15.319 could it be, it's crazy, No, it's not, because look 1275 01:37:15.359 --> 01:37:19.680 at that the Sarmatian they were intimately involved. There's a 1276 01:37:19.720 --> 01:37:26.119 whole book on you know, the whole Amazon, the Volkirie idea, 1277 01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:33.640 right because of Sarmatian women for example, had to so 1278 01:37:33.880 --> 01:37:38.000 the custom went had to kill a man in battle, 1279 01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:42.680 of an enemy man in battle before she was allowed 1280 01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:48.880 to marry. It's obviously a eugenics program, right, that only 1281 01:37:49.760 --> 01:37:53.239 a woman of that caliber. That's the origin of the 1282 01:37:53.279 --> 01:37:56.720 Amazon mythology. Also, the city and women did the same, 1283 01:37:57.359 --> 01:38:03.279 so you know, they would killed warriors, they were warriors, 1284 01:38:03.640 --> 01:38:05.920 and that's this idea of the Vola curis and so 1285 01:38:06.119 --> 01:38:09.840 they were real and the women were bed. The Viking 1286 01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:13.880 age did fight and they did that sort of thing. 1287 01:38:14.600 --> 01:38:19.279 Uh So these kind of you won't find a Greek 1288 01:38:19.359 --> 01:38:22.800 woman doing that or a Roman woman doing that. That 1289 01:38:22.840 --> 01:38:27.640 would just freak a Roman dude out, except a Spartan 1290 01:38:27.720 --> 01:38:30.800 woman maybe. But you know, for the most part, that 1291 01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:35.960 is taboo. That is just unbelievable, that can't be. But 1292 01:38:36.079 --> 01:38:40.479 the Norse people that was fine. That was and that's 1293 01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:45.359 that link. It's not just into European a specific kind 1294 01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:51.319 of uh connection between the these Iranian people and I 1295 01:38:51.439 --> 01:38:55.399 use the word Iranian. It's like this big, big giant world. 1296 01:38:55.960 --> 01:39:00.479 Scythians and Sarmatians are not like the very different culture 1297 01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:07.159 you know from the hyper civilized world of Persia, but 1298 01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:15.439 same you know, same group. But but so these are 1299 01:39:15.960 --> 01:39:20.560 That's always important to realize. I think the history of 1300 01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:27.439 these ideas and how when historical information can say this 1301 01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:36.199 is not this is understandable and quite quite quite clear, 1302 01:39:36.520 --> 01:39:38.680 you know, as to where these things come from and 1303 01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:43.479 how they evolved. But only in later times does it 1304 01:39:43.680 --> 01:39:49.199 seem that it's unbelievable. It's ridiculous. This is art bell stuff, 1305 01:39:49.239 --> 01:39:51.760 you know. I mean, this is crazy. This can't happen. No, 1306 01:39:51.840 --> 01:39:58.880 it's just an ordinary pretty uh pretty clear as to 1307 01:39:58.920 --> 01:40:06.560 how these things happen. But it's list. 1308 01:40:06.840 --> 01:40:09.560 I have a quick question for you, doctor Flowers. Sorry 1309 01:40:09.560 --> 01:40:13.920 about that. I just wanted to sort of revisit this 1310 01:40:14.039 --> 01:40:19.359 idea of the poisonous story, like story misapplied to the 1311 01:40:19.439 --> 01:40:23.760 different frameworks that are occulted by nature. So you're one 1312 01:40:23.760 --> 01:40:26.159 of the first people I've really heard discuss like the 1313 01:40:26.199 --> 01:40:30.960 misapplication of story or history or Parahi history to the 1314 01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:34.319 Runa or the derunes in particular. But I think this 1315 01:40:34.439 --> 01:40:38.319 is also important in just a sort of metamogical lens 1316 01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.720 in general. Like I think that there is a kind 1317 01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:44.680 of interest, especially from some of your quotes and some 1318 01:40:44.720 --> 01:40:47.840 of your protegees like Don Web and Toby Shoppel in 1319 01:40:47.920 --> 01:40:51.439 the lovecrafty and mythos, and I'm very interested in, like, 1320 01:40:51.760 --> 01:40:54.560 what are your thoughts on this kind of I'm calling 1321 01:40:54.560 --> 01:40:57.239 it appropriation but I don't mean it in a misappropriation, 1322 01:40:57.239 --> 01:41:01.319 and I just mean that use of it by them 1323 01:41:02.039 --> 01:41:06.279 to describe magical ideas. So maybe words containing the logos 1324 01:41:06.319 --> 01:41:10.159 of meaning, and they're sort of adopting this different framework 1325 01:41:10.239 --> 01:41:12.720 to describe it. And I wanted to hear if you 1326 01:41:12.960 --> 01:41:16.239 had me either positive or negative thoughts on that. 1327 01:41:16.880 --> 01:41:20.199 Well, the idea of neo mythology and the like creating 1328 01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:27.680 subjective world mythologies in other words, to say we are 1329 01:41:27.760 --> 01:41:32.600 creating normally, a tradition is something which is received from 1330 01:41:32.720 --> 01:41:39.159 previous But if you say, like, well this person, an 1331 01:41:39.199 --> 01:41:44.319 individual created a new mythology and now these other people 1332 01:41:44.359 --> 01:41:47.560 are making use of that as if it were a 1333 01:41:47.640 --> 01:41:52.119 tradition when it's not. Uh. And what I'm saying here 1334 01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:58.760 is that that is an exercise in this uh uh. 1335 01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:05.199 You know, this old principle of being able to create meaning. 1336 01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:10.600 If you can do that doesn't mean that meaning is 1337 01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:19.880 you're that the mean meaning? Actual traditional things are insulted 1338 01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:28.520 or misdirectly, it is an exercise in being able to 1339 01:42:28.600 --> 01:42:31.560 create meaning. And that the idea that I was bringing 1340 01:42:31.640 --> 01:42:34.800 up with, oh than recreating the world he had a 1341 01:42:35.119 --> 01:42:37.600 world he received, but he says not good enough, I 1342 01:42:37.640 --> 01:42:39.920 want to exercise like an artist. I want to do 1343 01:42:41.720 --> 01:42:45.479 and that is something that you are able, that we 1344 01:42:45.640 --> 01:42:48.600 are able to do it, and that people do it, 1345 01:42:48.680 --> 01:42:53.039 and that they find a meaning in it. Is a 1346 01:42:53.239 --> 01:42:58.600 powerful exercise in, for example, the idea of left hand path. 1347 01:42:59.199 --> 01:43:05.680 Uh uh, creativity. Right, So if you don't just accept, 1348 01:43:05.760 --> 01:43:10.239 you don't only just accept what is given to you, 1349 01:43:11.279 --> 01:43:14.119 but rather you take it upon yourself. If you have 1350 01:43:14.159 --> 01:43:19.640 the talent, ability and strength to create, to be a 1351 01:43:19.800 --> 01:43:28.039 godlike creates an exercise in being a god. So that 1352 01:43:28.359 --> 01:43:30.960 is like, that's the way I look at it. I 1353 01:43:31.000 --> 01:43:35.279 think the way most people within the you know, tradition do. 1354 01:43:38.520 --> 01:43:42.760 That's only certain people would actually say, well, I think 1355 01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:45.399 that love credit is really into the cold Man, and 1356 01:43:45.439 --> 01:43:50.239 he was revealing, you know, the truth about something really 1357 01:43:50.600 --> 01:43:54.920 deep and he's a you know, of course anybody knows 1358 01:43:54.960 --> 01:43:58.079 anything about love crad No, you know that was not 1359 01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:02.800 the case. So but the fact that a subsequent generation 1360 01:44:03.399 --> 01:44:07.039 could make you, you could could use us in a 1361 01:44:07.159 --> 01:44:13.960 conscious and godlike way, is what is being exercised here 1362 01:44:14.000 --> 01:44:21.039 with the idea of the neo mythology and creating magical Well, ako, 1363 01:44:21.119 --> 01:44:24.439 you know, somebody like a John D. You know, creating 1364 01:44:24.479 --> 01:44:28.159 the Anachian system and that sort of thing, uh like, 1365 01:44:28.960 --> 01:44:32.399 is that from somewhere else? So it's it's like made 1366 01:44:32.479 --> 01:44:36.159 up here, but it's used work. So you know that 1367 01:44:36.239 --> 01:44:43.199 again is an exercise in uh human creativity. One thing 1368 01:44:43.239 --> 01:44:48.760 we know, you know, does god exist? Does a god exists? Well, 1369 01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:52.520 sort of setting an answer as well, yes that does. 1370 01:44:52.680 --> 01:44:59.199 Because you have intelligence, you have consciousness, and he has 1371 01:44:59.279 --> 01:45:03.119 it and she has it? And where did it come from? 1372 01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:07.000 It must have come from somewhere and we all got 1373 01:45:07.039 --> 01:45:10.720 it for most of us got it. It's very if 1374 01:45:10.760 --> 01:45:13.359 we can It's like benium of Frankulently. You know, you 1375 01:45:13.399 --> 01:45:16.279 have a republic if you can keep it. You have 1376 01:45:16.520 --> 01:45:21.159 consciousness if you can keep it, develop it and and 1377 01:45:21.359 --> 01:45:30.199 strengthen it. But so that is the thing that we 1378 01:45:30.239 --> 01:45:34.520 say that we have that power, and it does just 1379 01:45:34.520 --> 01:45:37.159 because we have the well, we have the potential for 1380 01:45:37.239 --> 01:45:41.600 that power and we have the possibility of being able 1381 01:45:41.680 --> 01:45:48.000 to exercise it in a beneficial I mean that that 1382 01:45:48.079 --> 01:45:51.840 it is a way in which it helps us, doesn't 1383 01:45:51.960 --> 01:45:56.439 just make us crazy. You know, it can also do that. 1384 01:45:56.439 --> 01:45:59.640 That's why, like Michael Aqueino said, you know, black magic 1385 01:46:00.199 --> 01:46:05.119 is dangerous. It is dangerous and people say, oh, you know, 1386 01:46:05.319 --> 01:46:08.159 to be destroyed by the demons where you could be, 1387 01:46:08.800 --> 01:46:13.119 but they're probably demons of your own creation, you know. Uh. 1388 01:46:13.159 --> 01:46:16.359 But being able to you know, you've got to be 1389 01:46:16.399 --> 01:46:22.680 able to handle the explosives that you're using, you know, 1390 01:46:22.760 --> 01:46:25.920 with with with care and wisdom and to make you 1391 01:46:26.039 --> 01:46:30.600 so that it helps you and doesn't hurt you. And 1392 01:46:30.640 --> 01:46:32.680 that's why a lot of people just stay away from it, 1393 01:46:33.880 --> 01:46:37.600 don't risk it, right. And of course, like I said 1394 01:46:37.840 --> 01:46:41.560 earlier earlier on here about the grimoires and that sort 1395 01:46:41.560 --> 01:46:43.920 of thing about saying that your sword has to be 1396 01:46:43.960 --> 01:46:46.840 so long and this kind of that was just the 1397 01:46:46.960 --> 01:46:51.159 you know there the seals on the systems involved. So 1398 01:46:51.399 --> 01:46:54.439 people say, I'm not going to mess with this. It's 1399 01:46:54.479 --> 01:46:59.640 too complicated. It's to it's not. But that fact is 1400 01:46:59.640 --> 01:47:03.840 something you know doesn't help you, you know, but you 1401 01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:08.359 got it can be much simpler, well, much harder, but 1402 01:47:08.439 --> 01:47:15.039 much simpler. H So does that answer the question about 1403 01:47:15.079 --> 01:47:16.319 new mythology at all? 1404 01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:21.119 Absolutely? And just a quick follow up is how important 1405 01:47:21.199 --> 01:47:25.079 do you think the cometic mythologies or the cometic system 1406 01:47:25.319 --> 01:47:29.560 is to understanding we're now or the rooms Because we've 1407 01:47:29.560 --> 01:47:31.760 heard this from several other people. 1408 01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:33.560 You mean the Egyptian. 1409 01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:35.279 Yes, excuse me, the Egyptian. 1410 01:47:35.439 --> 01:47:37.520 Oh yeah, I understand what you say, but I just 1411 01:47:37.520 --> 01:47:42.159 didn't you know why. You know, that's cool to use 1412 01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:49.359 a more native turn. But yeah, well, I think that 1413 01:47:49.479 --> 01:47:54.359 the Egyptian system is extremely, extremely powerful, coherent, and the 1414 01:47:54.439 --> 01:47:58.560 problem with it is well, numerous problems. And that's one 1415 01:47:58.560 --> 01:48:02.079 of the things to some uh sentiens and so forth, 1416 01:48:02.479 --> 01:48:05.760 the ones I really try to encourage, not directly, but 1417 01:48:06.399 --> 01:48:11.880 you know, is to discovering or rediscovering the actual you know, 1418 01:48:12.199 --> 01:48:15.800 nothing is more fraught with nonsense than Egyptian things, right, 1419 01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:19.520 I mean, due to the history of us not knowing 1420 01:48:19.600 --> 01:48:22.600 how to read hieroglyphics for so many centuries, and people 1421 01:48:22.720 --> 01:48:26.239 making up Egypt is always important, you know, from the 1422 01:48:26.279 --> 01:48:30.560 Bible or whatever, always by important and powerful in all 1423 01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:35.039 those things. But most of the stuff that was said 1424 01:48:35.079 --> 01:48:38.880 about it is nonsense, you know, and it became codified 1425 01:48:38.960 --> 01:48:44.520 nonsense over centuries of time, and so cutting through this 1426 01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:48.199 to get back to the and a lot of it 1427 01:48:48.239 --> 01:48:52.079 is of the Egyptian's own creation, not just historically, just 1428 01:48:52.239 --> 01:48:55.840 like the role of set, you know, being like, oh, 1429 01:48:55.880 --> 01:48:58.640 he's a demonic, terrible thing. You know, it's like, well, no, 1430 01:48:59.760 --> 01:49:03.520 you know, he's our And of course I had had 1431 01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:06.399 a lot to do with because he's a god of foreigners, 1432 01:49:06.399 --> 01:49:09.479 that every foreigner came there, whether they were exol su 1433 01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:13.159 Persians or whatever, adopted him as their god, because that 1434 01:49:13.279 --> 01:49:18.119 was the only Egyptian god that was acceptable to be adopted, 1435 01:49:18.199 --> 01:49:21.600 you know, because he you know, he likes your He 1436 01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:24.279 is a god of foreigners. You're a foreigner, so he's 1437 01:49:24.319 --> 01:49:27.000 your god. Okay, we'll go with that. You know, whatever 1438 01:49:27.079 --> 01:49:29.720 makes you happy, and you know, just keep the peace. 1439 01:49:30.600 --> 01:49:38.720 But now recently in this century, Egyptologists have really we 1440 01:49:38.920 --> 01:49:43.079 have rediscovered a lot of really important things that cut 1441 01:49:43.119 --> 01:49:46.840 through the nonsense and make it for the first time. 1442 01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:50.159 It's such a difficult thing to understand because I think 1443 01:49:50.680 --> 01:49:57.279 that we there are no Egyptians, right, there are no Egyptians. 1444 01:49:57.279 --> 01:50:03.000 Don't exist anymore. You you know what I mean, You 1445 01:50:03.079 --> 01:50:04.720 understand what I mean. M h. 1446 01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:09.000 There's no one to really carry their scene, you can say, through. 1447 01:50:08.800 --> 01:50:12.319 Time culturally, I mean, it was all cut off and 1448 01:50:12.359 --> 01:50:15.600 they died out or they were absorbed, they just lost 1449 01:50:15.640 --> 01:50:19.319 their identity. When you compare it to let's say, uh, 1450 01:50:19.680 --> 01:50:24.039 the dramatically or Roman or a reigning or whatever. That 1451 01:50:24.119 --> 01:50:27.960 there is a the Indians, or it may have changed, 1452 01:50:28.039 --> 01:50:30.880 but there's a there's there are people who are the 1453 01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:35.279 people are the ancestors still live, you know, and so 1454 01:50:35.479 --> 01:50:41.039 the Egyptians are gone, and so people have u for 1455 01:50:41.079 --> 01:50:45.319 a long time I admired them and and had looked 1456 01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:48.840 to them for meaning, and so they have made meaning 1457 01:50:49.000 --> 01:50:54.039 oftentimes when none was well it was truly there, and 1458 01:50:54.479 --> 01:51:01.800 so that confuses things even more. But through uh, I 1459 01:51:02.000 --> 01:51:07.439 think inquiry, through scholarship, a lot of things have been uh, 1460 01:51:07.520 --> 01:51:09.800 you know, rediscovered. A lot of people have been breaking 1461 01:51:09.840 --> 01:51:13.640 their heads over Egypt for a long time, clever uh, 1462 01:51:13.840 --> 01:51:18.760 the intelligent people, and getting much much closer to understanding 1463 01:51:19.399 --> 01:51:23.840 it and than anyone ever has before. And and of 1464 01:51:23.840 --> 01:51:28.359 course Egypt is so ancient that even within its own 1465 01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:35.119 cultural continuity, things got lost and had to be rediscovered 1466 01:51:35.199 --> 01:51:43.600 and revive even within the timeframe of the Egyptian world. Uh. 1467 01:51:45.039 --> 01:51:47.239 You know, that's one of the things that you will say. 1468 01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:50.680 You know, it's no accident that you know, the big 1469 01:51:51.319 --> 01:51:58.920 sort of scientific encyclopedia of Egyptology is actually called, uh, 1470 01:51:59.239 --> 01:52:06.439 the in Cycopedia the Age. You know, it's like in 1471 01:52:06.600 --> 01:52:12.560 German most of it, I mean, because you look at 1472 01:52:12.560 --> 01:52:16.960 German philology, science, linguistics, et cetera, and so forth. One 1473 01:52:16.960 --> 01:52:20.159 of the things was that Germanic things were so hard 1474 01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:29.039 to investigate that these clever German scholars had to develop 1475 01:52:29.119 --> 01:52:37.119 a lot of techniques and methods of uncovering the hidden, 1476 01:52:37.680 --> 01:52:44.159 uncovering what was not known, by using evidence in increasingly 1477 01:52:44.359 --> 01:52:52.039 clever scientific ways to make these these difficult bodies of 1478 01:52:52.119 --> 01:52:57.359 evidence yield their true meaning. And they were interesting. Was 1479 01:52:57.520 --> 01:53:00.640 you know, the Greeks and the Romans they got there, 1480 01:53:00.680 --> 01:53:03.520 so they speak that language. Do we know their language? 1481 01:53:04.640 --> 01:53:08.079 They had all these texts. If you were really interested 1482 01:53:08.119 --> 01:53:10.680 in pagan Greeks or Romans, all you got to do 1483 01:53:10.800 --> 01:53:13.159 is pick up a book and read it. It's right there. 1484 01:53:13.479 --> 01:53:17.600 But we have to the Germans have to deal find 1485 01:53:17.680 --> 01:53:21.560 the manuscripts hidden in Iceland somewhere, dig it up. And 1486 01:53:21.640 --> 01:53:28.680 so in that whole process they developed methods and of 1487 01:53:28.800 --> 01:53:34.640 understanding difficult bodies of evidence, and that then became applied 1488 01:53:35.399 --> 01:53:41.279 to everything, you know, whether it was studying the Babylonians 1489 01:53:41.359 --> 01:53:45.159 or finding Troy or doing this that are just applying 1490 01:53:45.239 --> 01:53:50.840 these methods to all kinds of cultures and so that's 1491 01:53:50.880 --> 01:53:56.079 why you know that that that uh, we're using that 1492 01:53:56.520 --> 01:53:59.760 and it doesn't happen overnight. But you know, we have 1493 01:53:59.840 --> 01:54:03.359 been able to dig up a lot of things about 1494 01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:11.560 Egyptian culture, religion, mythology that was previously buried under either 1495 01:54:11.720 --> 01:54:16.560 ignorance or misformation, made up stuff. 1496 01:54:16.640 --> 01:54:20.640 You know, Hi, Stephen, I'm a headless giant, and I 1497 01:54:20.720 --> 01:54:22.680 just had a couple of points to make on the 1498 01:54:22.720 --> 01:54:27.720 whole Setian analatry sort of idea when it comes to 1499 01:54:29.039 --> 01:54:31.159 Old Testament and Egyptian language. 1500 01:54:31.239 --> 01:54:31.880 What are the. 1501 01:54:31.880 --> 01:54:34.439 Problems that a lot of people find with the Egyptian 1502 01:54:34.520 --> 01:54:38.199 language is that it's a consonant only language, so it's 1503 01:54:38.199 --> 01:54:41.319 not including the vowel sounds that make that fill out 1504 01:54:41.359 --> 01:54:45.159 these words, and so a lot of times people will 1505 01:54:45.159 --> 01:54:49.199 find that they were only filled in with ease. Right, So, 1506 01:54:49.239 --> 01:54:52.479 somehow all of these Egyptian words are filled in with ease, 1507 01:54:52.760 --> 01:54:55.800 and that's probably not the case when it comes to 1508 01:54:56.079 --> 01:55:00.960 pronouncing these words in the Egyptian language. So that proved 1509 01:55:01.000 --> 01:55:04.800 an impediment right there, as well as the fact that 1510 01:55:04.960 --> 01:55:08.600 in the Bible they refer to Adam and Eve's third son, 1511 01:55:08.760 --> 01:55:12.079 which would be the progenitor of all of mankind, supposedly 1512 01:55:12.439 --> 01:55:15.359 as set or Seth. 1513 01:55:15.640 --> 01:55:18.039 In Greek, it was called Greek. 1514 01:55:18.600 --> 01:55:24.399 So there is this sort of recurrent Setian motif that's 1515 01:55:24.479 --> 01:55:31.399 found in the Bible and also found in Roman. I 1516 01:55:31.399 --> 01:55:36.119 guess you would call it graffiti, as they were mocking 1517 01:55:36.279 --> 01:55:39.600 the Christians and the Jews as being anoalators. And so 1518 01:55:39.800 --> 01:55:46.680 the very first graffiti of Christianity would be the analatry 1519 01:55:46.279 --> 01:55:52.319 of Jesus having a donkey's head, and that donkey's head 1520 01:55:52.479 --> 01:55:57.439 is representative of the god set And if you look 1521 01:55:57.479 --> 01:56:03.680 at the reports from the desecration of the Second Temple 1522 01:56:04.399 --> 01:56:09.760 by Antiochus Sepaphanis, you find that he was talking about 1523 01:56:10.319 --> 01:56:13.479 this golden donkey head inside of the Second Temple, and 1524 01:56:13.560 --> 01:56:17.720 also this giant marble statue of Moses writing the donkey. 1525 01:56:17.760 --> 01:56:19.840 And you've also got the reports from the New Testament 1526 01:56:19.920 --> 01:56:23.079 of Jesus writing the donkey, and all of these things 1527 01:56:23.159 --> 01:56:27.840 sort of relate back to this anolatry sort of coming 1528 01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:29.079 out of Egypt. 1529 01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:30.560 And we also see that the. 1530 01:56:31.359 --> 01:56:37.640 Septuage was written in Alexandria, Egypt. So there's this huge 1531 01:56:37.640 --> 01:56:45.600 crossover between Setianism and the roots of Christianity and ancient Judaism. 1532 01:56:46.119 --> 01:56:49.800 Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, those all 1533 01:56:49.880 --> 01:56:52.600 those things you mentioned. First of all about the language, 1534 01:56:52.680 --> 01:56:57.359 I mean, the Coptic language helps us a whole lot 1535 01:56:57.399 --> 01:57:02.000 of that, you know, since that is the descendant of 1536 01:57:02.359 --> 01:57:05.720 ancient Egyptian and it has all the vowels you'd ever want. 1537 01:57:07.079 --> 01:57:14.039 But the other things are most of the things that, 1538 01:57:14.720 --> 01:57:17.199 you know, the examples you're bringing up here, you know, 1539 01:57:17.319 --> 01:57:23.279 are extremely recent by Egyptians standards of you know, like 1540 01:57:23.520 --> 01:57:28.479 antiquity and things like that. As far as the you know, 1541 01:57:28.520 --> 01:57:31.520 the stories may be ascribed to older things, but they 1542 01:57:31.600 --> 01:57:37.279 are more recent thing and said the God said to 1543 01:57:37.319 --> 01:57:42.600 the god of the nineteenth, eighteenth and nineteenth dynasties of 1544 01:57:42.640 --> 01:57:47.800 the Egyptian. You know, it's a different sort of creature 1545 01:57:48.079 --> 01:57:52.520 in norways than one, and so it has this whole. 1546 01:57:52.840 --> 01:57:56.479 Is the Martian, you know, the god Mars, if you will, 1547 01:57:56.560 --> 01:58:04.119 the war god of the ancient Egyptians with Uh and Ramises, 1548 01:58:04.239 --> 01:58:07.960 the greatest polity, I suppose, the greatest pharaoh of all. Right, 1549 01:58:08.199 --> 01:58:12.800 Ramis is the second is the great is a Seti 1550 01:58:13.239 --> 01:58:18.000 So and of course he was we have his mommy. 1551 01:58:18.079 --> 01:58:20.039 He was one of the ones where and he was 1552 01:58:20.680 --> 01:58:24.560 flaming red hair. There's all of it. And that's one 1553 01:58:24.560 --> 01:58:28.800 of the things ascribed to set Uh and to the 1554 01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:32.479 followers have set is that they're based on this. It 1555 01:58:32.560 --> 01:58:36.800 wasn't because of you know, redhead Uh. You know, there 1556 01:58:36.800 --> 01:58:40.880 are stereotypical things about redheads, you know in general, but 1557 01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:46.560 the about their anger, their volatility. So but that's more 1558 01:58:47.079 --> 01:58:52.880 European kind of stereotypes. Uh. He was a foreigner, you know, 1559 01:58:53.079 --> 01:58:56.399 that family where a bunch of foreigners from somewhere else. 1560 01:58:56.520 --> 01:59:01.199 But that was true of so many Seti and people. 1561 01:59:01.319 --> 01:59:03.720 I mean, well, it's again like I mentioned the Heksaus 1562 01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:06.880 of the Persians. I mean, he wouldn't say, oh, the 1563 01:59:06.920 --> 01:59:11.199 Persians are going to worship was set and he's considered 1564 01:59:11.239 --> 01:59:14.800 to be a kind of an evil god, which is 1565 01:59:14.800 --> 01:59:17.880 not true, but if he is can be considered that 1566 01:59:17.960 --> 01:59:22.479 later towards the end of the Egypt you wouldn't think 1567 01:59:22.520 --> 01:59:26.279 Persians would be into that because they're you know, the 1568 01:59:26.279 --> 01:59:31.199 worship of bah Ramazda, the Lowi's lord. So I would 1569 01:59:32.079 --> 01:59:33.399 was a player of Apep. 1570 01:59:33.520 --> 01:59:36.760 They had many different myths about the slayers of Apep, 1571 01:59:36.880 --> 01:59:41.479 this chaos serpent, and so set was one of the 1572 01:59:41.479 --> 01:59:43.800 slayers of this chaos serpent. 1573 01:59:44.279 --> 01:59:50.359 Yeah, so but you know that now that's the set 1574 01:59:50.399 --> 01:59:53.840 that we're really you know, is the set of ramises, 1575 01:59:54.000 --> 01:59:58.279 let's say, and again we're dealing with Egypt. My god, 1576 01:59:58.319 --> 02:00:02.960 there's this thousands of years some history. Nobody has anything, 1577 02:00:03.199 --> 02:00:07.560 you know, to match that kind of continuity. It's over, 1578 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:11.680 it's gone. But there was continuity there for so long, 1579 02:00:12.600 --> 02:00:15.800 and it underwent so many changes that to make any 1580 02:00:16.479 --> 02:00:18.399 you know, that's why you really have to talk about 1581 02:00:18.600 --> 02:00:23.600 to be precise about, you know, about this time period 1582 02:00:23.640 --> 02:00:29.680 and not confuse the time period. Almost confusing light antiquity 1583 02:00:29.800 --> 02:00:36.279 Ptolemaic Egypt with eighteenth dynasty is like, well, you might 1584 02:00:36.319 --> 02:00:41.159 as well be China in Ireland, you know. But I mean, 1585 02:00:41.239 --> 02:00:43.520 I mean, it's not that extreme, but you know what 1586 02:00:43.560 --> 02:00:46.880 I mean, it's a lot of differences going on. 1587 02:00:48.199 --> 02:00:52.119 There are so many attempts by the Ptolemaic dynasties to 1588 02:00:52.239 --> 02:00:57.359 try and truly understand the depths of the Egyptian wisdom. 1589 02:00:57.920 --> 02:01:02.359 And you see that in characters like Cleopatra, who tried 1590 02:01:02.439 --> 02:01:04.960 her best to learn all of these languages and learn 1591 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:07.439 all of these connections, and she really doesn't get a 1592 02:01:07.439 --> 02:01:10.079 lot of credit for that. I mean, she was very 1593 02:01:10.159 --> 02:01:13.239 much a scholar and an academic in her time, and 1594 02:01:13.520 --> 02:01:15.640 people just sort of gloss over that and say that 1595 02:01:15.720 --> 02:01:18.399 she was so beautiful, she was more than just a beauty. 1596 02:01:20.000 --> 02:01:24.119 Yeah, well, that's uh. And think of how many how 1597 02:01:24.199 --> 02:01:30.479 long that was that the Greeks were the rulers of Egypt, 1598 02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:33.680 you know, that the people were the pharaohs were Greeks 1599 02:01:34.640 --> 02:01:37.199 or you know, mixed. I'm sure they married, you know, 1600 02:01:37.279 --> 02:01:41.840 intermarried there quite a bit. But but that's why, that's 1601 02:01:41.880 --> 02:01:46.479 the culture. That's why all of our Egyptological terminology, whether 1602 02:01:46.520 --> 02:01:49.520 it's a pyramid or obelisk or whatever, all Greek words 1603 02:01:49.680 --> 02:01:54.640 we rarely ever use Egyptian words if ever, you know, uh, 1604 02:01:55.239 --> 02:01:59.119 for the for these things, you know, because it's so impenetrable. 1605 02:02:00.119 --> 02:02:03.039 But one of the reasons why the septuagen was written 1606 02:02:03.079 --> 02:02:05.800 in Greek instead of Arabic or any of the other 1607 02:02:05.840 --> 02:02:10.399 contemporary languages is because the Hiros Gammos between Greek and 1608 02:02:10.520 --> 02:02:16.119 Egypt was almost you know, central to their spirituality. 1609 02:02:16.840 --> 02:02:19.520 Yeah. One of the things is curious about, you know, 1610 02:02:19.880 --> 02:02:23.039 traditions about the Kabbala and that sort of thing as well, 1611 02:02:23.239 --> 02:02:26.079 the idea that well, isn't it curious. I mean, I'm 1612 02:02:26.119 --> 02:02:29.760 sure everybody here's somewhat conversed with Kabala, you know, just 1613 02:02:29.760 --> 02:02:34.359 because of it. But you know that we think the 1614 02:02:34.479 --> 02:02:37.159 letters of the Hebrew letters, you know, the Hebrew letters, 1615 02:02:37.199 --> 02:02:40.399 the names of the Hebrew letters are not heb I mean, 1616 02:02:40.399 --> 02:02:43.760 they are in Hebrew, but they're not of Hebrew invention. 1617 02:02:43.880 --> 02:02:48.279 They're Canaanite. And that's they refer to Canaanite mythology, not 1618 02:02:48.439 --> 02:02:53.279 to Hebrew mythology. And that's why no Cobbalists, no Hebrew 1619 02:02:53.600 --> 02:02:57.960 you know, mystic or Jewish person interested in this sort 1620 02:02:58.000 --> 02:03:01.520 of thing makes use of the names of the Hebrew 1621 02:03:01.640 --> 02:03:05.760 letters the way that Germanic enthusiast makes use of the 1622 02:03:05.840 --> 02:03:09.359 names of the rules. This is not relevant. They're numbers. 1623 02:03:09.880 --> 02:03:13.359 But then we go, oh, wait a minute, numbers and 1624 02:03:13.479 --> 02:03:18.359 Hebrew letters. They really weren't used as numbers for a 1625 02:03:18.399 --> 02:03:24.239 while because the earliest manuscripts of the Bible which have 1626 02:03:25.159 --> 02:03:30.600 chapter and number numbered are in Greek letters, not in 1627 02:03:30.680 --> 02:03:31.600 Hebrew letters. 1628 02:03:31.840 --> 02:03:37.119 Isopsophy. Everybody looks over isobsophy. It's so difficult to get 1629 02:03:37.159 --> 02:03:40.359 people to understand that. It's like this came first, that's 1630 02:03:40.359 --> 02:03:43.720 what you're looking at. That other form came later. 1631 02:03:44.279 --> 02:03:46.760 Right, And I mean, you know, but real. It's one 1632 02:03:46.760 --> 02:03:50.520 of the things about like real Jewish, real people, not 1633 02:03:50.520 --> 02:03:55.680 not you know, those who idolize the Jewish tradition, but 1634 02:03:55.880 --> 02:03:59.640 rather the Jewish tradition people themselves, you know, are not 1635 02:04:00.079 --> 02:04:03.000 from shoal and read him, you know, it's like he's flock. 1636 02:04:03.760 --> 02:04:07.560 Doesn't shy away from that, but it points out. Look 1637 02:04:07.560 --> 02:04:11.600 at if you go into a synegogue wherever we're you know, 1638 02:04:11.760 --> 02:04:15.319 Kabbala is taught and learned, say this is a continuing 1639 02:04:15.960 --> 02:04:20.239 living tradition from ancient times. It might not be. They 1640 02:04:20.279 --> 02:04:24.479 might not have invented these things, but they created a 1641 02:04:24.680 --> 02:04:29.479 culture in which they have been continued in a living 1642 02:04:29.560 --> 02:04:33.279 way to this day. And that is a that is 1643 02:04:33.319 --> 02:04:38.239 an incredible achievement, you know, culturally, that you have that 1644 02:04:38.359 --> 02:04:43.079 kind of ability to carry that on. 1645 02:04:44.039 --> 02:04:47.479 But this might be very controversial, but do you think 1646 02:04:47.640 --> 02:04:52.319 that the Kabbala has more roots in theogeny than it 1647 02:04:52.399 --> 02:04:54.359 does in hebrewness? 1648 02:04:55.920 --> 02:04:59.920 It is, it's neoplatonism in a Jewish form. I mean 1649 02:05:00.359 --> 02:05:05.920 Garsham Schoulm says that basically, and that's what is and 1650 02:05:05.960 --> 02:05:10.119 that's why I was married to a Jewish woman for 1651 02:05:11.119 --> 02:05:15.079 uh she was a Jewish heritage really in practicing at 1652 02:05:15.079 --> 02:05:18.479 the time, but for seventeen years and knew their family. 1653 02:05:19.000 --> 02:05:22.920 You know, talk to the you know, relatives from Europe 1654 02:05:22.960 --> 02:05:25.800 and all that, and they're old geezers. You know that 1655 02:05:26.119 --> 02:05:29.279 some of them studied Cabala and so forth, and you 1656 02:05:29.319 --> 02:05:32.720 know they would be pointing out, you know, this is 1657 02:05:32.800 --> 02:05:40.279 not Judaism. Kabala is not Judaism. The Rabbi is not 1658 02:05:40.800 --> 02:05:44.840 interested in this. We teach this among ourselves, we have 1659 02:05:44.920 --> 02:05:48.800 our school and we do this, but it is different 1660 02:05:49.039 --> 02:05:53.399 from them. They understood it as being a foreign body 1661 02:05:54.079 --> 02:06:02.039 in their hard in pabalistic six about uh obecures and 1662 02:06:02.039 --> 02:06:04.960 so forth. You know, have made that, but that's not 1663 02:06:05.479 --> 02:06:09.840 the main body to think, you know, with Judyism, but 1664 02:06:09.880 --> 02:06:14.680 it's not the essence of Jutism. We have occultists, you know, 1665 02:06:15.239 --> 02:06:17.319 who kind of grew up as I did, you know, 1666 02:06:18.039 --> 02:06:22.760 the six sixties and seventies whenever, you know, on Crole 1667 02:06:22.960 --> 02:06:25.920 and the Kabbala and you know, an old and God 1668 02:06:26.039 --> 02:06:30.800 and they idolize that. They think and I think that 1669 02:06:30.920 --> 02:06:33.720 this is the origin. You know, the Cabala is the 1670 02:06:33.760 --> 02:06:39.239 origin of everything, and everything's intelligible through the cab through 1671 02:06:39.359 --> 02:06:44.520 the tree of life and becomes all that and becomes 1672 02:06:45.199 --> 02:06:50.760 like an idol, you know, a fetiche. But you know, 1673 02:06:51.239 --> 02:06:53.640 feel it away. So that's not what it is. It's 1674 02:06:53.680 --> 02:06:57.840 not what thank you, you know, it's something. It's big, it's. 1675 02:06:57.800 --> 02:07:02.840 Fantas relative to Egypt, but it actually applies just as 1676 02:07:02.880 --> 02:07:06.279 well to the Hebrews, the Israelites, whatever we're gonna call them. Right, 1677 02:07:07.159 --> 02:07:11.039 is there something because people again from late antiquity as 1678 02:07:11.159 --> 02:07:14.520 previously discussed all the way to guys standing out at 1679 02:07:14.520 --> 02:07:16.520 the corner of one twenty fifth and Malcolm X right 1680 02:07:16.560 --> 02:07:20.479 now claiming to be both a continuation of the ancient 1681 02:07:20.720 --> 02:07:27.119 Egyptians and the ancient Israelites. Right, does do the centuries 1682 02:07:27.159 --> 02:07:31.159 of sort of like creative interpretations and creative attributions that 1683 02:07:31.199 --> 02:07:34.560 are kind of built onto both of these you know, languages, 1684 02:07:34.640 --> 02:07:37.960 these cultures, Does that give them some kind of maybe 1685 02:07:38.079 --> 02:07:42.800 enhanced magical potential kind of in the neo mythological sense. 1686 02:07:42.840 --> 02:07:46.279 Do you think, oh, yeah, theo mythological I like the 1687 02:07:47.039 --> 02:07:55.760 you know, the no matter if something is historically completely nonsense, 1688 02:07:57.279 --> 02:08:01.000 we create a lot of aggreable you know, they are 1689 02:08:01.199 --> 02:08:08.960 like uh, historic paradigmatic eggrigores where you have h theyd 1690 02:08:09.239 --> 02:08:13.039 Yeah they've been created, but they've been established and they've 1691 02:08:13.079 --> 02:08:18.359 been carried on and they've become real, you know, but 1692 02:08:18.520 --> 02:08:22.399 they and part of the mythology is and that's probably 1693 02:08:22.399 --> 02:08:25.319 how a lot of mythology work is that it is 1694 02:08:25.399 --> 02:08:29.680 then retro fitted to say this is what it was 1695 02:08:29.720 --> 02:08:33.079 from the beginning and always was when it was really 1696 02:08:33.239 --> 02:08:36.439 a recent events. But then when that thing goes on 1697 02:08:36.560 --> 02:08:39.840 for a while, we as living in this moment in time, 1698 02:08:40.560 --> 02:08:43.800 interpret it and can feel it as having always been there. 1699 02:08:44.079 --> 02:08:47.520 That's one of the things about uh, like immigrants are 1700 02:08:47.520 --> 02:08:51.600 thinking about. Like Jewish people for example, is a good 1701 02:08:51.640 --> 02:08:55.520 example of this. You know how uh you know this 1702 02:08:55.720 --> 02:08:58.319 family I was a part of for a lot, you know, 1703 02:08:58.439 --> 02:09:02.640 you'd see h that you know they've come over. They 1704 02:09:02.720 --> 02:09:05.640 be practically you know, just to be impoverished and this 1705 02:09:05.800 --> 02:09:09.920 kind of thing. But they're focus on learning and saying 1706 02:09:09.920 --> 02:09:12.439 you've got to learn, go to school, and then they 1707 02:09:12.680 --> 02:09:16.159 have these family h traditions that you know, you know, 1708 02:09:16.319 --> 02:09:20.199 your great grandmother was like the first woman to become 1709 02:09:20.239 --> 02:09:23.479 a doctor in Odessa. You know, I call a bunch 1710 02:09:23.479 --> 02:09:25.920 of nonsense. But see what they do is they instill 1711 02:09:26.000 --> 02:09:28.840 it in the kids, this is possible. You did it before, 1712 02:09:28.920 --> 02:09:31.479 We've done it before, and pretty soon you've got a 1713 02:09:32.079 --> 02:09:35.720 system working there that goes from where a bunch of 1714 02:09:35.840 --> 02:09:39.960 rag pickers and the next generation we're winning Nobel prizes. 1715 02:09:41.720 --> 02:09:46.960 You know, you're saying, you do it, We've done it, 1716 02:09:47.039 --> 02:09:52.399 We're great, We're gonna you know, and uh, you got 1717 02:09:52.439 --> 02:09:54.840 to learn. You got to learn, You got to study. 1718 02:09:55.039 --> 02:09:57.640 You've got to make the great you know. I mean, 1719 02:09:57.640 --> 02:10:00.399 you've got to work hard, but you can it. It 1720 02:10:00.520 --> 02:10:05.600 is possible. But if you tell people it's impossible where 1721 02:10:05.640 --> 02:10:11.199 nobody will never be anybody and forget about it, don't 1722 02:10:11.239 --> 02:10:15.279 work for Let somebody do that for you, et cetera. 1723 02:10:15.600 --> 02:10:21.359 Those are programs for disaster, for cultural disaster, as opposed 1724 02:10:21.399 --> 02:10:24.359 to flip it around and you've got it. Change You 1725 02:10:24.399 --> 02:10:29.439 can change it as a matter of will you know, 1726 02:10:29.560 --> 02:10:31.920 but you got to apply that will Stephen. 1727 02:10:32.079 --> 02:10:35.119 Have you heard of Oswald Spangler's book The Decline of 1728 02:10:35.159 --> 02:10:35.600 the West? 1729 02:10:36.479 --> 02:10:39.000 Yeah, that I think. 1730 02:10:38.840 --> 02:10:43.880 It embodies the idea of theitgeist being certain cultural questions, 1731 02:10:44.319 --> 02:10:47.640 and those cultural questions, once they become answered, then the 1732 02:10:47.680 --> 02:10:51.359 people fall back into that meme of thinking that it's 1733 02:10:51.399 --> 02:10:53.960 okay to just let everybody else do things for them, 1734 02:10:54.479 --> 02:10:56.640 and you know they can they can be fine if 1735 02:10:56.680 --> 02:10:59.960 they just you know, let other people do the work 1736 02:11:00.119 --> 02:11:02.840 that they had been doing and striving for until they 1737 02:11:02.920 --> 02:11:04.560 answered those cultural questions. 1738 02:11:05.119 --> 02:11:08.880 Right, well, yeah, that's why are you know, you just 1739 02:11:09.000 --> 02:11:12.600 got a self. That's part of the message if you will, 1740 02:11:13.119 --> 02:11:17.119 you know, of the ancestors, you know that we need 1741 02:11:17.399 --> 02:11:24.600 nowadays is to hearken back to those people who are 1742 02:11:24.640 --> 02:11:33.640 self reliant and clever and applying themselves heroically, you know, 1743 02:11:33.680 --> 02:11:37.800 against all odds to achieve great things. And you know 1744 02:11:37.920 --> 02:11:42.840 that's what a lot of you know, and again there's 1745 02:11:42.880 --> 02:11:46.439 a lot of just like the Antos telling about the 1746 02:11:46.479 --> 02:11:49.319 people that I know, you know, it doesn't matter who 1747 02:11:49.399 --> 02:11:55.039 they are, but it does. Just paradigms are consistent about 1748 02:11:55.359 --> 02:12:01.000 heroic models and thinking that what is possible and applying 1749 02:12:01.119 --> 02:12:06.039 that and all those things are are real, very practical 1750 02:12:06.680 --> 02:12:13.399 and an individual applications also obviously you know about who 1751 02:12:13.439 --> 02:12:17.920 you are and what's possible for you and h and 1752 02:12:18.039 --> 02:12:21.399 achieving you know that sort of thing. Uh, the magic 1753 02:12:21.479 --> 02:12:25.399 comes in, that's it, I mean, that's part of part 1754 02:12:25.439 --> 02:12:30.319 of yeah, part of certainly changing your subjective universe and uh, 1755 02:12:30.520 --> 02:12:36.560 and as we see that, the subjective universe becomes the 1756 02:12:36.680 --> 02:12:44.840 objective reality regardless. Uh, you know, but it's most interesting 1757 02:12:44.880 --> 02:12:48.880 to me as to how cultures, you know, individuals, any 1758 02:12:48.960 --> 02:12:52.960 individual part of sort of left hand path or setting 1759 02:12:53.000 --> 02:12:56.119 and thinking, you know, it's capable of just about anything 1760 02:12:56.640 --> 02:13:05.039 an individual, uh, but hurting the cats, as doctor Quino 1761 02:13:05.079 --> 02:13:09.359 would say, you know, uh, that's the challenge. 1762 02:13:09.479 --> 02:13:09.680 Right. 1763 02:13:10.079 --> 02:13:13.359 People think of Michael Aquino, uh, of course as one 1764 02:13:13.399 --> 02:13:19.039 of my close mentors, my friend as well. But uh, 1765 02:13:19.239 --> 02:13:22.399 you know, I think always a political science, military guy 1766 02:13:22.399 --> 02:13:24.520 and all that sort of thing. But you know, you 1767 02:13:24.560 --> 02:13:29.119 would ask a question about politics and he thought, you know, 1768 02:13:29.840 --> 02:13:31.680 we don't want to talk about that ship. You know, 1769 02:13:32.000 --> 02:13:36.800 it's like, you know, it's really low, really bad stuff. Right. 1770 02:13:37.159 --> 02:13:40.359 He would just give me a book asking about some politics. 1771 02:13:41.199 --> 02:13:45.119 One of his mentors was Ragavon i Are who the 1772 02:13:45.159 --> 02:13:50.520 professor of political science, and uh this book he wrote 1773 02:13:50.600 --> 02:13:57.319 called uh uh parapolitics. Yeah, you know, anyway, he would say, 1774 02:13:57.640 --> 02:13:59.640 you know, read that. That's all you need to do. 1775 02:14:00.119 --> 02:14:01.800 You know, you certainly don't want to talk about But 1776 02:14:02.800 --> 02:14:07.279 I noticed in studying him, just observing him over the years, 1777 02:14:07.680 --> 02:14:13.359 is that he practiced political thinking in the Temple of 1778 02:14:13.439 --> 02:14:17.439 set in ways that the initiates, most of them don't 1779 02:14:17.520 --> 02:14:21.760 didn't realize. And if you look at the way in 1780 02:14:21.760 --> 02:14:28.319 which the organization has flourished and continued, you know, it's 1781 02:14:28.119 --> 02:14:34.000 a grand working on his part of politics as he 1782 02:14:34.239 --> 02:14:42.000 saw it, the true application in an initiatory environment, you know, 1783 02:14:42.520 --> 02:14:46.760 to create a culture. And then we're talking about creating 1784 02:14:46.800 --> 02:14:50.039 with neo mythologies, et cetera, and so and I see 1785 02:14:50.079 --> 02:14:55.239 that in this instance he was successful so far as 1786 02:14:55.720 --> 02:15:03.960 creating something to live beyond him who which is has 1787 02:15:04.039 --> 02:15:11.159 been created, you know, by design. And it's very difficult. 1788 02:15:11.279 --> 02:15:13.680 I can imagine if all of us have probably been 1789 02:15:13.720 --> 02:15:18.479 involved in occult organizations of one kind or another. And no, 1790 02:15:19.279 --> 02:15:22.239 as he would say, you know, it's like herding cats. 1791 02:15:23.680 --> 02:15:28.000 You know, I'd like to ask you about the book 1792 02:15:28.079 --> 02:15:32.479 then that's sort of what everybody's mind Mind War by 1793 02:15:32.479 --> 02:15:33.279 Michael Akino. 1794 02:15:33.399 --> 02:15:36.640 That's still used a Quino Aquino. 1795 02:15:36.800 --> 02:15:40.119 Yeah, it's still used by the Army War College. 1796 02:15:40.239 --> 02:15:45.600 That's one of their required reading texts. Yeah, well, you 1797 02:15:45.680 --> 02:15:46.680 did a lot of things that. 1798 02:15:48.520 --> 02:15:52.159 You know. That way is he's the guy who he 1799 02:15:52.239 --> 02:15:55.039 is the inventor of it. But you know, like Apocalypse 1800 02:15:55.119 --> 02:15:58.199 now where they're like flying over the right of the 1801 02:15:58.279 --> 02:16:01.039 valakyries and all that sort of thing. That was not 1802 02:16:01.159 --> 02:16:04.840 what was done. People would hear he like to play 1803 02:16:05.000 --> 02:16:09.199 Jefferson Airplane, you know, uh there, but he was not 1804 02:16:09.319 --> 02:16:13.560 playing that. Ton't be a calm. That was. They had 1805 02:16:13.560 --> 02:16:19.720 these scientifically created recordings that they were using for psychological 1806 02:16:19.760 --> 02:16:23.640 warfare on the enemy. But when those same systems, the 1807 02:16:24.840 --> 02:16:30.439 projection system with reply back over the American troops, he 1808 02:16:30.680 --> 02:16:34.440 just flip on rock and roll, you know, and they 1809 02:16:34.440 --> 02:16:39.479 thought they were like playing rock and Roll to the 1810 02:16:39.520 --> 02:16:43.159 to the be it calm, you know, which is not true, 1811 02:16:43.959 --> 02:16:45.959 but you know that's what they were hearing when these 1812 02:16:46.440 --> 02:16:48.799 coming back over friendly territories. 1813 02:16:50.920 --> 02:16:54.959 How much influence do you think Michael Aquino Aquino had 1814 02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:56.719 over Project. 1815 02:16:56.319 --> 02:17:04.360 Monarch I don't know. I just know him as, yeah, 1816 02:17:05.920 --> 02:17:09.000 my mentor's but a lot of the other things like that. 1817 02:17:09.319 --> 02:17:13.559 But what is Project monarch in? That was that was a. 1818 02:17:13.440 --> 02:17:18.360 Pretty brutal campaign of psychological warfare going on against Cambodia 1819 02:17:18.600 --> 02:17:24.440 and Vietnam. We've used a lot of uh, psychologically damaging 1820 02:17:24.520 --> 02:17:28.639 techniques that I think we're developed because of Michael Aquino's 1821 02:17:28.639 --> 02:17:29.600 book Mind Wars. 1822 02:17:29.680 --> 02:17:33.440 They built off of it. Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. Yeah, well, 1823 02:17:33.440 --> 02:17:38.680 I'm sure there's something there. Yeah, if you'll But but 1824 02:17:38.959 --> 02:17:43.600 using the word uh uh uh, you're kind of uh 1825 02:17:44.239 --> 02:17:48.799 prejudicial or whatever. To use the word brutal in context 1826 02:17:48.840 --> 02:17:53.879 of war. War is brutal. The point is to defeat 1827 02:17:53.920 --> 02:17:57.200 the enemy as quickly and absolutely as possible. 1828 02:17:57.280 --> 02:18:01.440 We've forgotten that lesson, especially in the Emerald Triangle with 1829 02:18:01.479 --> 02:18:03.799 all those drugs floating around. You know, they made a 1830 02:18:03.799 --> 02:18:06.159 lot of money off of those troops buying the drugs 1831 02:18:06.159 --> 02:18:09.120 in that area. It was a big profit driven. 1832 02:18:08.920 --> 02:18:13.520 Enterprise that probably had nothing to do with the psyops. 1833 02:18:14.319 --> 02:18:20.239 It made it easier, if you'll permit me, just to 1834 02:18:20.399 --> 02:18:23.799 kind of circle back between the relationship between the individual 1835 02:18:23.799 --> 02:18:27.879 initiate and larger social organisms, at least on a naive 1836 02:18:27.959 --> 02:18:31.319 level setting, an initiation is is sort of definitionally and 1837 02:18:31.360 --> 02:18:35.680 profoundly individualistic. And I was wondering you've given us I 1838 02:18:35.680 --> 02:18:39.120 think you're living a concrete example of this answer now, 1839 02:18:39.200 --> 02:18:44.280 and certainly Michael Aquino did as well. But in terms, 1840 02:18:44.280 --> 02:18:49.239 in more general terms, what do you think reintegration? I 1841 02:18:49.239 --> 02:18:51.319 think is a word that you no. Reinclusion was the 1842 02:18:51.319 --> 02:18:54.239 word you use. What what does that look like when 1843 02:18:54.479 --> 02:18:58.000 the when the initiative is tasked to sort of return 1844 02:18:58.120 --> 02:19:00.959 to the broader you know, the large a super you know, 1845 02:19:01.399 --> 02:19:05.239 super individual organisms that he's a part, tribe, clan, you know, nation, 1846 02:19:05.399 --> 02:19:08.680 Whatever that looks like for him, does that does that 1847 02:19:09.319 --> 02:19:15.040 initiate have duties, responsibilities, et cetera to those broader organisms 1848 02:19:15.079 --> 02:19:17.360 and sort of what is his place even as he 1849 02:19:17.479 --> 02:19:19.559 is a god of his own making? 1850 02:19:20.760 --> 02:19:23.799 Well, I think you know you learned that by example 1851 02:19:24.159 --> 02:19:29.680 of you know, more than anything about in theory, always 1852 02:19:29.719 --> 02:19:34.879 and forever. That's what the initiation before we talk about 1853 02:19:34.920 --> 02:19:40.799 setting and initiation, initiation in general, that's reinclusion idea goes 1854 02:19:41.000 --> 02:19:48.360 back in a scholarly sense Vun Gennip's book The Rights 1855 02:19:48.399 --> 02:19:52.920 of Passage, Rights of Transformation. You know, that's where that 1856 02:19:53.000 --> 02:19:59.680 model you know, is laid out of separation, transformation and reinclusion. 1857 02:20:00.239 --> 02:20:04.959 And that is true of every kind of initiatory right 1858 02:20:05.040 --> 02:20:11.120 of passage practiced by everyone you know, from anywhere universally. 1859 02:20:11.600 --> 02:20:22.319 And so the that's it's true and proper and beneficial 1860 02:20:22.399 --> 02:20:26.280 to everyone because you say that, okay, setting an initiation 1861 02:20:26.319 --> 02:20:33.440 for examples that emphasizes this separation or individuation, individuality and 1862 02:20:33.479 --> 02:20:40.000 so forth. But you know, the reinclusion part is important 1863 02:20:40.120 --> 02:20:46.520 for the individual because you want to create a society, 1864 02:20:46.639 --> 02:20:53.879 a context all that is beneficial to that individual that individual. 1865 02:20:53.879 --> 02:20:58.479 No individual can exist and live in isolation on a 1866 02:20:58.600 --> 02:21:01.920 day to day, every day basis. So uh, you want 1867 02:21:01.959 --> 02:21:06.959 to improve the environment, uh, in order for for for 1868 02:21:07.079 --> 02:21:10.440 selfish reasons, and just to make things better and more 1869 02:21:10.520 --> 02:21:14.799 pleasant for yourself and for everyone around you. So uh 1870 02:21:15.239 --> 02:21:19.840 though those uh it would be a short sighted and 1871 02:21:20.399 --> 02:21:23.520 unwise thing to this time. I'm just interested in myself 1872 02:21:23.559 --> 02:21:27.079 and everybody else be damned, you know, I'm interested in 1873 02:21:27.120 --> 02:21:33.559 myself and I want to help others. Also, there's a 1874 02:21:33.559 --> 02:21:37.239 as Michael Aquino being sort of an archetype of this. 1875 02:21:37.600 --> 02:21:41.559 To me, as a single living example of it, there 1876 02:21:41.680 --> 02:21:49.920 was I never met, or interacted with, or lived around 1877 02:21:51.559 --> 02:21:59.360 a man who was more saintly than he was, you know, 1878 02:21:59.799 --> 02:22:09.360 more more kind, more uh just h helpful and and 1879 02:22:09.360 --> 02:22:13.520 and in every way. I cannot think of any example 1880 02:22:13.559 --> 02:22:19.360 of any moment or anything he ever did, said, or 1881 02:22:20.079 --> 02:22:26.319 anything that was not calculated, apparently on his part, to 1882 02:22:26.559 --> 02:22:37.879 be a creative of a maximally beneficial environment for an individual. 1883 02:22:38.520 --> 02:22:45.479 Two become and for the world in which that individual 1884 02:22:45.879 --> 02:22:51.920 circulated being mainly the environment of the temple set let's say, uh, 1885 02:22:52.760 --> 02:22:58.040 to be beneficial to everyone involved. I would and I 1886 02:22:58.559 --> 02:23:02.239 noticed this is the an maybe you know, write a 1887 02:23:02.280 --> 02:23:08.239 book about him, uh, with the cooperation of Lady Lilith. Uh. 1888 02:23:08.719 --> 02:23:13.079 And it's going to be difficult, but uh he uh, 1889 02:23:14.559 --> 02:23:17.840 it's little anecdotes like this. He would be in uh, 1890 02:23:18.200 --> 02:23:21.920 you know, conclave. Not all settings, as I know, comes 1891 02:23:21.920 --> 02:23:25.639 as no shock anyone, you know, don't all get along. 1892 02:23:26.280 --> 02:23:30.719 You know, there's rivalries, there's animosities, there's all sorts of things. 1893 02:23:30.760 --> 02:23:33.680 And that's one of the things that he doesn't This 1894 02:23:33.920 --> 02:23:37.799 was his herd, them cats. Uh. And we would be 1895 02:23:38.200 --> 02:23:43.440 in the Magic Castle. It's a place where magicians, you know, 1896 02:23:43.600 --> 02:23:46.000 the stage magician in la you know it. 1897 02:23:47.159 --> 02:23:47.479 Uh. 1898 02:23:47.520 --> 02:23:50.159 And we would have our banquet or some kind of 1899 02:23:50.200 --> 02:23:53.840 a dinner there for just a few initiatives, you know, 1900 02:23:53.959 --> 02:23:57.920 just like ten or twelve Forrest j Ackerman would be there, 1901 02:23:57.920 --> 02:24:01.159 and all kinds of cool people. But uh there there 1902 02:24:01.280 --> 02:24:04.159 sometimes there'll be these people that were like not getting along. 1903 02:24:04.319 --> 02:24:07.479 Myself might be included among those with some other guy 1904 02:24:07.559 --> 02:24:11.639 over there, you know, and Michael a queena. I know, 1905 02:24:11.799 --> 02:24:14.399 he's sitting right next to me. Usually I said it 1906 02:24:14.520 --> 02:24:19.159 his left hand, and he would you would hear him. 1907 02:24:19.559 --> 02:24:22.840 People say, what does he do? He's like humming some 1908 02:24:22.959 --> 02:24:28.319 kind of low tone sort of sound that was emanating 1909 02:24:28.399 --> 02:24:32.440 from him when Jesus is coming or something. And I 1910 02:24:32.600 --> 02:24:38.600 was watching. What he was doing was he was bringing 1911 02:24:38.719 --> 02:24:44.760 these desperate elements in his presence around the table into 1912 02:24:44.799 --> 02:24:53.600 a harmonious interaction, you know. He was bringing them into 1913 02:24:54.239 --> 02:25:01.760 a harmonious communicative like they say communal, you know, and 1914 02:25:01.840 --> 02:25:04.639 that was a working you see. I'm not saying he 1915 02:25:04.719 --> 02:25:06.799 said that, but he would do that kind of thing, 1916 02:25:07.360 --> 02:25:10.040 you know, the kind of thing of you know, okay, 1917 02:25:10.040 --> 02:25:12.280 you are in the ritual chamber and the bells are 1918 02:25:12.360 --> 02:25:15.319 ringing and the da da da da dada. That's that's 1919 02:25:15.360 --> 02:25:19.440 that's junior league. You know. He, for example, in this 1920 02:25:19.639 --> 02:25:24.239 very same magic castle, he brought me. He goes, come on, flowers, 1921 02:25:24.239 --> 02:25:27.200 we're going here. And so he took me in the building. 1922 02:25:27.280 --> 02:25:29.559 He took me down to the basement of the building 1923 02:25:30.559 --> 02:25:33.920 and there he reached into his back, you know, his 1924 02:25:34.120 --> 02:25:37.600 satchel and his thing he's bringing along and he brings 1925 02:25:37.639 --> 02:25:43.000 out this ss Dagger, the one he can famously see 1926 02:25:43.079 --> 02:25:49.040 him in the occult experience, you know, talking in the castle, right, 1927 02:25:50.200 --> 02:25:52.559 the right guess, And that's what we're getting at here. 1928 02:25:53.200 --> 02:25:55.959 That he took me down there and he says, okay, 1929 02:25:56.239 --> 02:25:59.120 and he presented it to me, gave it to me, 1930 02:26:00.840 --> 02:26:04.799 and he knows that the Germanic tradition, or he doesn't 1931 02:26:04.840 --> 02:26:07.520 know and necessarily doesn't know. This is the miraculous thing 1932 02:26:07.520 --> 02:26:13.559 about this man is that he could elicit without doing research, 1933 02:26:13.959 --> 02:26:20.079 could elist in all kinds of authentic magical practices and 1934 02:26:22.159 --> 02:26:28.200 workings just intuitively. Bars he would call it pnoetically, that is, 1935 02:26:28.360 --> 02:26:34.879 rationally into it, like platonic thinking. And uh would say, 1936 02:26:34.879 --> 02:26:38.239 here here they presented to me based on my work, 1937 02:26:38.319 --> 02:26:41.559 and so forth and kind of thing. And by where 1938 02:26:41.559 --> 02:26:43.959 did he? Where did we do this? In the basement 1939 02:26:44.040 --> 02:26:47.639 of magic Castle. We couldn't get to the babeles work 1940 02:26:48.159 --> 02:26:51.879 in la that so he but he did it, say 1941 02:26:52.000 --> 02:26:54.840 right there and then there did And then this idea 1942 02:26:54.840 --> 02:26:59.879 of you accept a blade from your lord, you know, 1943 02:27:00.200 --> 02:27:02.959 it's the kind of this nightly And of course the 1944 02:27:03.079 --> 02:27:08.120 Order of the Trapezoid is a ship alric organization see 1945 02:27:08.680 --> 02:27:10.000 knighthood and such. 1946 02:27:11.120 --> 02:27:14.040 Well, the presenting of the the blades goes back to 1947 02:27:14.079 --> 02:27:18.639 the clanging of the swords for type gods. So you've 1948 02:27:18.680 --> 02:27:22.799 got Anu and you've got Unos, and like the sky 1949 02:27:23.000 --> 02:27:26.520 itself is represented by the clanging of these blades. 1950 02:27:27.280 --> 02:27:29.840 So it goes way back when it comes to that 1951 02:27:29.920 --> 02:27:34.559 kind of meme. Yeah, well, of course that's your service 1952 02:27:35.200 --> 02:27:40.319 symbolically here. But you know in the Knights, that's like 1953 02:27:41.360 --> 02:27:47.079 this mentioned earlier, this my master's thesis, I wrote about 1954 02:27:47.159 --> 02:27:51.520 Siegfried zig Uh, you know, and there you see the 1955 02:27:51.600 --> 02:27:56.879 famous example where Olin comes and puts a sword in 1956 02:27:57.000 --> 02:28:01.360 this tree right in the barnstalker's call and sticks that 1957 02:28:01.559 --> 02:28:05.200 sword in a tree, and only Zeroth can pull it 1958 02:28:05.239 --> 02:28:08.760 out because he's like chosen. Like this our Thurian thing. 1959 02:28:09.440 --> 02:28:14.760 But it's a reflection of this courtly ritual in the North, 1960 02:28:15.440 --> 02:28:19.920 which is an idea that they say that you're the 1961 02:28:20.040 --> 02:28:23.840 guy's sword giver and the sword taker, and if you're 1962 02:28:23.840 --> 02:28:27.639 a sword taker, then you're obligated to the sword giver 1963 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:33.000 to put that blade in the service of the lord. See, 1964 02:28:33.760 --> 02:28:38.840 that's your tool. It's like I got a automobile repair 1965 02:28:38.959 --> 02:28:41.840 shop and I'm going to give you a set of tools. 1966 02:28:41.840 --> 02:28:43.799 But that's because I want want you to do my work. 1967 02:28:43.879 --> 02:28:46.639 You know, it's working them in my shop. You know. 1968 02:28:47.280 --> 02:28:57.120 That's uh, maybe retinue the lord in his retinue. And 1969 02:28:57.239 --> 02:29:01.639 that's how the Germans call it. A men are bunk, 1970 02:29:02.239 --> 02:29:06.440 that's uh. You know this the men's societies, the warrior 1971 02:29:06.559 --> 02:29:11.680 societies that you know, carried on the uh and that's 1972 02:29:11.719 --> 02:29:16.239 what it was like a h you know, very ancient 1973 02:29:17.920 --> 02:29:23.200 cultural things. But yeah, but that's just an example. You're 1974 02:29:23.200 --> 02:29:26.239 talking about the politics and of this. I mean, that's 1975 02:29:26.239 --> 02:29:32.440 how a master such as Michael Quino was and uh 1976 02:29:32.639 --> 02:29:35.760 and his point, as I have tried to do. It's 1977 02:29:36.440 --> 02:29:40.680 my point of being a master is to create other masters. 1978 02:29:40.799 --> 02:29:44.559 That's what you want. And that's true in like just 1979 02:29:44.799 --> 02:29:49.559 to take a guild like a shoemaker's guild, that's a 1980 02:29:49.600 --> 02:29:53.840 school and your point is to make good shoes. And 1981 02:29:53.920 --> 02:29:56.920 so masters are the teachers, and they teach people how 1982 02:29:56.959 --> 02:29:59.799 to make shoes, and then they become masters and then 1983 02:29:59.840 --> 02:30:03.079 they pass on that. Now that's part of the whole system. 1984 02:30:04.799 --> 02:30:08.719 And that we're talking about culture quite a bit here. 1985 02:30:09.159 --> 02:30:12.959 That's an idea of building a culture and perpetuating a culture. 1986 02:30:13.719 --> 02:30:17.239 The techniques are the same whether it's a that's what 1987 02:30:17.319 --> 02:30:21.399 a university is. It's a guild of just like a 1988 02:30:21.440 --> 02:30:24.559 shoemaker's guild, but we have intellectual product. 1989 02:30:25.440 --> 02:30:29.120 An excellent book on that theory is the Book of 1990 02:30:29.239 --> 02:30:34.280 Five Rings by Mayamoto Musashi, which perfectly lays out what 1991 02:30:34.319 --> 02:30:37.520 you're talking about. A master is one who can train 1992 02:30:37.920 --> 02:30:39.440 one hundred other masters. 1993 02:30:40.280 --> 02:30:42.479 Right, that's the idea behind. 1994 02:30:42.200 --> 02:30:46.079 Mastery and how to expand that out into the wider world. 1995 02:30:46.520 --> 02:30:50.239 So you definitely have the techniques from east to west 1996 02:30:50.360 --> 02:30:53.159 sort of blending in that matrix that you're. 1997 02:30:53.040 --> 02:30:58.479 Talking about, right, But I think it's important and to 1998 02:31:00.159 --> 02:31:09.319 experience it from both ends without experiencing it from one 1999 02:31:09.360 --> 02:31:15.399 in first, you know, being taught and then teaching and 2000 02:31:15.520 --> 02:31:18.840 doing so effectively. And again I bring up that thing 2001 02:31:18.879 --> 02:31:23.120 about the Room Guild, which is my school or my 2002 02:31:23.559 --> 02:31:30.840 initiatory school that I created. You know that I see 2003 02:31:31.399 --> 02:31:34.520 that we have now seven PhDs there, and that's not 2004 02:31:34.559 --> 02:31:39.000 saying that That's why I've recognized many masters in the 2005 02:31:39.239 --> 02:31:43.000 Room Guild who are not PhDs or poets and songwriters 2006 02:31:43.040 --> 02:31:46.040 and all kinds of other things, because there's other ways 2007 02:31:46.079 --> 02:31:50.319 to demonstrate mastery. Mastery is one thing, but the way 2008 02:31:50.319 --> 02:31:54.520 in which it's expressed as many and you want. Being 2009 02:31:54.520 --> 02:31:59.239 a good teacher is one being able to recognize the 2010 02:31:59.360 --> 02:32:03.239 expression of others which are not necessarily one's own. But 2011 02:32:03.680 --> 02:32:10.760 the degree of mastery is nevertheless equivalent. And but the 2012 02:32:10.840 --> 02:32:15.280 fact that so many occult in the cultusoid and incompunte world, 2013 02:32:15.600 --> 02:32:19.719 you find that the masters, so called masters, are people 2014 02:32:19.760 --> 02:32:26.760 who are hell bent on keeping everybody else down so 2015 02:32:26.799 --> 02:32:30.520 that they can remain the smartest guy in the room. 2016 02:32:30.799 --> 02:32:34.360 You know. And when somebody said to me recently or 2017 02:32:34.440 --> 02:32:37.520 I heard you somewhere recently, this is it. Hey, if 2018 02:32:37.559 --> 02:32:40.760 you're the smartest guy in the room, you're keeping their 2019 02:32:40.799 --> 02:32:41.559 own company. 2020 02:32:44.760 --> 02:32:47.879 Unfortunately, due to time, people do have to leave these 2021 02:32:47.959 --> 02:32:51.319 hours ago. Yes, you are about an hour over. That's 2022 02:32:51.360 --> 02:32:53.719 what I expected. I'm sorry to cut you off. It's 2023 02:32:53.799 --> 02:32:55.200 just that people are going to have to start dropping 2024 02:32:55.280 --> 02:32:56.000 off regardless. 2025 02:32:57.040 --> 02:32:59.159 So once I get started, it's hard to shut with. 2026 02:32:59.319 --> 02:33:03.399 Okay, okay, since there's a lot of well, I guess, 2027 02:33:03.520 --> 02:33:05.399 uh yeah, real quick. I mean, you can check out 2028 02:33:05.479 --> 02:33:08.879 Jim the Ninja, Ricardo Hella is Giant Soil Exile. I 2029 02:33:08.959 --> 02:33:10.639 does anything you want me to add to the links 2030 02:33:10.680 --> 02:33:12.879 in the bottom. I'll edit after the show. But I 2031 02:33:12.920 --> 02:33:14.520 got everybody's links down there if you want to check 2032 02:33:14.559 --> 02:33:17.719 out this stuff. Uh, Stephen, is there any place that 2033 02:33:17.760 --> 02:33:20.120 you want to let people to remind people to check 2034 02:33:20.120 --> 02:33:20.639 out real quick? 2035 02:33:21.719 --> 02:33:26.200 Well? Just uh, I said, go seek the Mysteries dot 2036 02:33:26.239 --> 02:33:29.399 com so you can see all my books and uh 2037 02:33:30.520 --> 02:33:36.319 and search keep an eye. Uh the wood Harrow School 2038 02:33:38.319 --> 02:33:41.719 coming up. What's going to happen there is that I 2039 02:33:41.760 --> 02:33:46.000 can only take so many students for these courses, that is, 2040 02:33:46.040 --> 02:33:50.879 for for the actual certification in the the in what 2041 02:33:51.000 --> 02:33:57.399 I'm teaching. Certain but these the courses can be audited, 2042 02:33:57.559 --> 02:34:02.319 you know, listen to by anyone. I mean, do not 2043 02:34:02.559 --> 02:34:06.200 necessarily be part of the school too. That's in the truth. 2044 02:34:07.040 --> 02:34:10.639 You know, university traditionally and a good university, you know 2045 02:34:10.760 --> 02:34:14.559 that let anybody who's just cool, you know, come in 2046 02:34:14.639 --> 02:34:18.799 and then hang out. And that's what I want to 2047 02:34:18.879 --> 02:34:23.840 have also, you know. And but a certain number of students, 2048 02:34:23.840 --> 02:34:29.479 approximately twenty, I will actually take under my wing then 2049 02:34:29.600 --> 02:34:34.399 will actually you know, teach them in the ways beyond 2050 02:34:34.559 --> 02:34:39.159 just what's in the lectures and so forth requirements and 2051 02:34:39.760 --> 02:34:43.840 just like a university. So what Harold School is on 2052 02:34:44.000 --> 02:34:44.719 the horizon? 2053 02:34:46.559 --> 02:34:49.520 Okay, Well, thank you very much, Steven. I appreciate you 2054 02:34:49.559 --> 02:34:51.239 coming on. That was I know why I even told 2055 02:34:51.239 --> 02:34:52.600 you about an hour and a half and one about 2056 02:34:52.600 --> 02:34:56.920 two and a half hours, so I appreciate you accommodating that. Again, 2057 02:34:57.000 --> 02:35:00.200 everybody thank you very much for coming on. Some you 2058 02:35:00.239 --> 02:35:01.760 were here for the whole time, so I mean that 2059 02:35:01.879 --> 02:35:04.879 was a long one. I appreciate that. And everybody in 2060 02:35:04.879 --> 02:35:07.959 the chat thank you. I appreciate it, everybody chiming in 2061 02:35:08.000 --> 02:35:09.840 and saying stuff. That's what's up. That's why we go 2062 02:35:09.920 --> 02:35:13.239 live and until the next one. Everybody be well A 2063 02:35:13.239 --> 02:35:13.760 little later