Speaker 1: On a that was the slowest on ever. Welcome to
Speaker 1: episode four sixty of the CEO pre Show for sixty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that feels like a bigger number than like four fifty nine,
Speaker 1: And I know that technically it is, but it's like,
Speaker 1: feels substantially bigger than just one.
Speaker 2: It is definitely one larger and holy shit about it.
Speaker 1: We are brought to you by the wonderful Patreon supporters
Speaker 1: at Patreon dot com lash CECO podcast.
Speaker 2: Whether they like it or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we got a new patron to shout out
Speaker 1: this week that's exciting or like a returning one. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about it on the show tomorrow. And one that's
Speaker 1: going to be at CEO Experience Calgary. Planning officially kicked off.
Speaker 2: Oh that's exciting. I think I was tagged in some
Speaker 2: stuff on discord, which I'm excited about.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have a tentative list of attendees that have
Speaker 1: already expressed interest. I have messaged the Dude Bros as well,
Speaker 1: the CCO Dude brows in our group chat on my
Speaker 1: phone and waiting to hear back from them, because they
Speaker 1: should be the ones that got in touch first and
Speaker 1: said that they wanted to come but they not. Not
Speaker 1: a single one of them has responded except for you.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, what a bunch of asshles, I know, right.
Speaker 1: I guess that's why we always say f you to
Speaker 1: them on the show.
Speaker 2: That's right, That's why I don't say glowing things about
Speaker 2: them and say there's sevens instead of seven point twos.
Speaker 1: Very much so. He speaking of seven point two, I
Speaker 1: know that you had a bunch of stuff that we
Speaker 1: talked about getting to on the pre show. We can
Speaker 1: get to it, okay. Or I have a present from
Speaker 1: my command fest Toronto weekend.
Speaker 2: Is it a dark misprint visions Griffin Canyon? It isn't,
Speaker 2: and I probably don't want it.
Speaker 1: You know what, In hindsight, I should maybe hold on
Speaker 1: to this present. I should, but you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: a nice guy, and the present truthfully isn't actually from me.
Speaker 1: It's it's through me from and you may have heard
Speaker 1: of him, a good friend of ours named Ghi Pizza. Oh.
Speaker 1: I love that guy. Yes, made all of our skulls
Speaker 1: that you saw at the intro to this. He made
Speaker 1: a Gary skull, he made a hardcorera and Brooksy skull
Speaker 1: for the Damn Media Group.
Speaker 2: He made me a gift of a brash Tunter giving
Speaker 2: the finger.
Speaker 1: Oh, well, it's funny that you should mention that. It's
Speaker 1: funny that you should mention that, because right here in
Speaker 1: my sweaty pocket, I have a altered art brash Tunter
Speaker 1: by one mister Ghi Pizza. Oh foil because he knows
Speaker 1: he likes foils of a brash Tunter giving you the finger.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so rad.
Speaker 1: So that's that's so cool.
Speaker 2: And don't even know he altered cards while.
Speaker 1: He's getting into it, and he showed me a few
Speaker 1: of his altars. And this is the best part. He
Speaker 1: gave you that. But even better than that, he picked
Speaker 1: up a copy of my Altered Art e book and
Speaker 1: he said, I'm going to give this a read, and
Speaker 1: I'm going to up my game so he can make
Speaker 1: more alters like that. Look at he he did the foil,
Speaker 1: so it still looks like it's foil underneath where he
Speaker 1: had to redo the sky. Then he painted on a
Speaker 1: new middle finger.
Speaker 2: It's hard to tell even that you can see it
Speaker 2: when you know it's there. But I'm gonna show this
Speaker 2: to Sam when I get home. She's gonna laugh super hard. Think,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is that card you're always talking
Speaker 2: about for some reason, and I'll say yeah, and then
Speaker 2: I'll never tell her that it's an altar and she'll
Speaker 2: just and she wont to think that that's how it
Speaker 2: looks all the time.
Speaker 1: It's perfect.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Kei Pizza and Ryan for not
Speaker 2: hoarding that as I have hoarded the Darkness Print vision
Speaker 2: s Griffin Canyon.
Speaker 1: Yes, so I showed producer Gary that when I got
Speaker 1: here today, and I think, and he can correct me
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but I think that's the first time
Speaker 1: he's ever seen a brash Hunter really, so oh second time? Okay,
Speaker 1: Well that's still you popped his brash Hunter, Sherry.
Speaker 2: Was it as exciting the second time, Gary?
Speaker 1: Well, he because he got finger blasted this time. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's geez, brash Hunter. I love your finger.
Speaker 2: We're going straight into the straight into a deck.
Speaker 1: Straight into a deck. Yes, that's where that finger is going.
Speaker 1: What else did you want to talk about? You saw Transformers.
Speaker 2: I went to see the new Transformers movie and.
Speaker 1: Was it good? I mean you said that you didn't
Speaker 1: want to and that wasn't going to be good. Were
Speaker 1: you right? No? I was.
Speaker 2: I was absolutely wrong. When I see something that's good
Speaker 2: that I'm shit talked. I have to say nice things
Speaker 2: about it, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1: It's not as bad as how bad you expected it.
Speaker 2: That way, when I say something is bad, people will
Speaker 2: believe me because they know that I'm willing to admit
Speaker 2: when I'm incorrect. And if you're a Transformers fan as
Speaker 2: I am, I was, I was like emotionally invested in
Speaker 2: this movie. It's gonna ship all over the lore of trying.
Speaker 2: I was one of being one of those like neck
Speaker 2: beerd guys right banging the table, want to Spider Man.
Speaker 2: And then I went and I watched it because it's
Speaker 2: like I gotta see it, million you gotta see it.
Speaker 1: You collect Transformers things, including memories of movies that you
Speaker 1: may or may not like exactly.
Speaker 2: And when I went to see it, like, I laughed
Speaker 2: and it was crying, didn't cry. It was very well done.
Speaker 2: My only two actual complaints about it are strictly cosmetic.
Speaker 2: In then, a quintison in the movies doesn't look like
Speaker 2: a quintusng. Here's the quintison should look like. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: describe it to you with my words. Okay, picture a
Speaker 2: ball sack.
Speaker 1: I'm doing that.
Speaker 2: That's upside down.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's getting weird.
Speaker 2: It's got tentacles dangling from it, and.
Speaker 1: Then how many, uh, like one big one that could
Speaker 1: give you like.
Speaker 2: A Roman helmet, like eight really skinny ones. Oh, and
Speaker 2: then it's got five scary faces kind of around this
Speaker 2: the sides of it. That's what a quintisan looks.
Speaker 1: So okay, let me let me get this straight. It's
Speaker 1: a beholder with faces and ball sack sort of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, that's so, that's what. And then in
Speaker 2: this movie they were just big bulky aliens with like
Speaker 2: tentacles that had but they look kind of like little
Speaker 2: Cathu guys, kids show Brando, big Miss, big Miss.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine, that's fine because maybe it's somebody's interpretation, right.
Speaker 2: And then right at the very end, don't give it away.
Speaker 2: This isn't with the ending, okay, because you know what,
Speaker 2: like at the end of every Transformers movie, they always
Speaker 2: have Peter Collin, who is the voice of Optimist Prime,
Speaker 2: my cartoon dad says some kind of epic speech about
Speaker 2: how awesome being a Transformer is. Yes, they did that
Speaker 2: in this movie, but it was Thor instead of Optimus Prime,
Speaker 2: and Thor.
Speaker 1: Tried Thorpe, did that's Liam No, Chris Hemsworth, Yes, did
Speaker 1: he play Optimist Prime?
Speaker 2: He did okay, and he did his best Peter Cullen impression,
Speaker 2: and you just don't do it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It just sounded stupid, like you could hear him doing it,
Speaker 2: and it's like, nah, man, just don't do that. You
Speaker 2: did great for the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Just do your own Optimist Prime version of your voice.
Speaker 2: I have zero complaints about his performance for the whole
Speaker 2: movie except for that one scene at the end, but
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. That's if they're trying to give you the
Speaker 2: fan service though, just like, pay Peter Cullen some money.
Speaker 2: He's alive, he'll do it, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna try and do that, just do it.
Speaker 2: Don't half asset. My only two complaints. And if you're
Speaker 2: a Transformers fan or you have kids that just like
Speaker 2: explode bright color, kind of funny CGI movies, highly recommend it.
Speaker 2: Lots of fun and it's like eighty nine minutes long.
Speaker 2: So it's the perfect class of a movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, classic like old so Disney movies, like every single
Speaker 1: movie that Disney did from like nineteen forty seven to
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two or whatever. It was ninety two minutes long,
Speaker 1: every single one, because they like crack that code. This
Speaker 1: is how much it should cost. This is how long
Speaker 1: your kids will be entertained. This how many songs there's
Speaker 1: gonna be.
Speaker 2: This is how in the movie will be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Disney cracked that code pretty.
Speaker 2: Good, so no Transformers one, highly recommend.
Speaker 1: Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2: You know what movie didn't crack the code on how
Speaker 2: many songs there should be? Joker too. The less I
Speaker 2: say about that, the better. But that's a bad movie.
Speaker 2: You see two and a half hours long.
Speaker 1: You see I thought it'd be good. Well, that's fine,
Speaker 1: and well the first one was good. You had reasonable
Speaker 1: expectation that the second one done in a way similar
Speaker 1: to the first one. I'll say, because I know it's
Speaker 1: it's different. Yeah, but same director, same actor, and Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga already an Oscar winner. She's fantastic.
Speaker 2: Wasn't very good movie?
Speaker 1: You didn't like it?
Speaker 2: I didn't like it?
Speaker 1: Okay, well, and there you go, very slow.
Speaker 2: Not my thing just wasn't for me. I don't and
Speaker 2: I don't think that people who are fans of the
Speaker 2: first one, who go in expecting a continuation, They're not
Speaker 2: going to be happy. And I don't think that people
Speaker 2: that go in knowing that it's a musical because it is,
Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to be really happy either,
Speaker 2: because it's kind of disjointed and a little weird.
Speaker 1: Was it really Joaquin Phoenix singing? I think probably.
Speaker 2: I'll bet it was.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll ask you one more question and we'll move
Speaker 1: on to some magic talk for people that are actually
Speaker 1: here for Commander and magic the gathering talk. Do you okay?
Speaker 1: Would you describe Joker one as a movie with lots
Speaker 1: of tension in it, lots of tense moments. Would you
Speaker 1: say it's a tense movie? I would say so, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like like a lot of thriller and action movies are,
Speaker 1: and gangster movies. Maybe we can include this in kind
Speaker 1: of like a gangster light. Sure. Do you think Joker
Speaker 1: Too as a musical had or holds as much tension? No? No?
Speaker 1: And is it because of the musicality of it or
Speaker 1: is it just because it's not as intense?
Speaker 2: It's because how they they incorporated the musicality into it
Speaker 2: just kind of took some of the tens, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like it brightened it up.
Speaker 2: Maybe, remember in all of them, in all the Marvel movies,
Speaker 2: kind of near the end of the.
Speaker 1: You're acting like you've seen all the frickin Marvel movies.
Speaker 2: You'll you'll know this reference. And so all the people
Speaker 2: out there, how every intense scene they ever did in
Speaker 2: a Marvel movie they punctuated with a joke to kind
Speaker 2: of flatten that emotion that they had elicited.
Speaker 1: That is a technique that storytellers have been using since
Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds. You might have heard of William Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: He invented that comic relief. It's called right.
Speaker 2: He shouldn't have because if you overuse it.
Speaker 1: Shakespeare didn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 2: If you overuse something like that, it steps. Your movie
Speaker 2: kind of is flat now, And that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of what balances that. It balances the tension with with lightness, airiness,
Speaker 1: comedy too much, you know, too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just they went a little bit too hard
Speaker 2: on and it just kind of didn't end up being
Speaker 2: that good. So, man, if you want to see it,
Speaker 2: by all means, but be aware it is a musical.
Speaker 2: It is two and a half hours long, and it's.
Speaker 1: Not very good. Bro I saw Rent in the theater.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Out of all movies that I should have seen, and
Speaker 1: out of all the movies that I haven't seen, yeah,
Speaker 1: Rent is one that I have And in the movie theater, Dang,
Speaker 1: what the ass was I doing? I don't know? And
Speaker 1: it was there three other dudes. I didn't even go
Speaker 1: on a date with a chick a lady. What the ass?
Speaker 2: What were you thinking?
Speaker 1: And then and then this is gonna make it sound
Speaker 1: really bad. We all shared a hotel room because we're
Speaker 1: in Edmonton. And then I got strep throat. I don't
Speaker 1: want to fill in all the blanks in between all
Speaker 1: of those.
Speaker 2: Things, nor do we want you to.
Speaker 1: No, But like I was so sick on the drive home,
Speaker 1: I had a fever for like two days. I got
Speaker 1: a rash man possibly related to having a fever and
Speaker 1: strep throat. Not for other reasons or in other places,
Speaker 1: but I will say there was a jacuzzi tub because
Speaker 1: we were in the Roman room in the Galaxy Hotel.
Speaker 1: Ever stay in one of the theme rooms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we stayed in the hotel, the Hollywood big Wig Room.
Speaker 1: We stayed in the hotel room in the HOTELANDO. That
Speaker 1: was not a theme room.
Speaker 2: It was just like every other hotel.
Speaker 1: It was so good. It was the perfect hotel experience.
Speaker 1: Have you ever stayed in the Dusk Morn room?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Probably not.
Speaker 1: Have you seen any dusk Morn cards come into play
Speaker 1: at the LGS?
Speaker 2: I have?
Speaker 1: I have not because I haven't been there.
Speaker 2: You can't drive, remember, Yeah, I do recall, I do
Speaker 2: recall you. You were in Toronto, you might have seen
Speaker 2: you know what. I didn't play a lot of games,
Speaker 2: I know, but I.
Speaker 1: Do have a little bit of a Toronto recap. I
Speaker 1: did want on Commander at Populum, but I have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a Toronto recap and some stuff to
Speaker 1: talk about on Commander Cookout. The deck we're doing is
Speaker 1: going to go a little bit fast, So I have
Speaker 1: a couple other things that I would love to touch on,
Speaker 1: and a little bit of Toronto is good. Yes, But
Speaker 1: what did you see and how was it? What is
Speaker 1: what is dusk Morn done thus far?
Speaker 2: So far? Not a huge amount. And we've two here's
Speaker 2: something that both of us are going to kick ourselves
Speaker 2: in the face about. Actually, I saw two pre cons
Speaker 2: of dust one play and we were completely right about them,
Speaker 2: and that they weren't really good, okay, and they didn't
Speaker 2: have the things that they needed to make them work.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Did you know that the Amanatu one has an infinite
Speaker 2: combo in it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Does one of them. One of the doors turns all
Speaker 2: your permanence into enchantments. One of them has whenever an
Speaker 2: enchantment comes into play, you copy it. Oh, and it's
Speaker 2: a creature, so it comes in, copies itself, copies itself,
Speaker 2: copies itself, copies itself, copies itself, copy infantinum up to
Speaker 2: a number. And since it says may on it, then
Speaker 2: you stop and then you pass the turn, and when
Speaker 2: it gets back to you, you win the game.
Speaker 1: Ah, does watsy know that? Or at the time that
Speaker 1: they built it.
Speaker 2: They better have, because I mean, we missed it, but
Speaker 2: of course we missed it, We're idiots. But and it's
Speaker 2: also it was also the only thing that that deck
Speaker 2: can do to win, because holy crap, is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? You got you got to take Amanatu or Master
Speaker 1: of the Keys out and you got to build those
Speaker 1: decks because those decks I think would slap.
Speaker 2: Yes, but the deck that they come in don't, at
Speaker 2: least in my we played two games with it, both
Speaker 2: of which were just abysmal. And we saw the Red
Speaker 2: Black deck played as well. It held its own a
Speaker 2: little bit better.
Speaker 1: Deck in Toronto is going for like one hundred and
Speaker 1: five bucks.
Speaker 2: It had the same issue that we talked about on
Speaker 2: the show, where it has all the stuff that it needs,
Speaker 2: but it works it's like working on the wrong axis.
Speaker 2: So it just was real clunky, and the clunkiness kind
Speaker 2: of came through in a lot of the turns.
Speaker 1: You know what I and this is fortunately this is
Speaker 1: maybe just a meeting, but whenever I've boughten a pre
Speaker 1: con and not kept it and modified it. But because
Speaker 1: I've only really ever done that maybe once with my
Speaker 1: Souron deck, which was already a good pre con. You
Speaker 1: drop your Commander, you get like twenty five power on
Speaker 1: the table. It's pretty good across three bodies. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: and then you add things like like Laurian Revealed and
Speaker 1: the One Ring and every other good card from Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings and Gris's colors, like the deck is fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, But I think if I was if you
Speaker 1: said you have to pick a pre con and you
Speaker 1: have to just modify one card at a time over
Speaker 1: the course of like a year. Maybe you play like
Speaker 1: thirty games and you in a year you change thirty cards. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that that would be fun because you can
Speaker 1: identify the clunkiness and the clunkers if you will, and
Speaker 1: replace them and tweak them over time, and have the
Speaker 1: satisfaction of knowing, oh, I finally get to take this
Speaker 1: clunker out, or oh my god, I took this clunker
Speaker 1: out and put this card and I finally get to
Speaker 1: play it. I think with pre cons that are a
Speaker 1: little bit suboptimized on purpose as a means to feel
Speaker 1: good when you upgrade them, I think that that's something
Speaker 1: I would like if I was a pre con mod
Speaker 1: kind of player. I'm not, no, I mean I'm not either,
Speaker 1: but that kind of thing. I appreciate what you're saying
Speaker 1: that I can see how it would be like appealing.
Speaker 2: And I think that you are you are correct. I
Speaker 2: think that you are based on my experiences with those.
Speaker 2: I got to play a couple of New Dusk Warning cards,
Speaker 2: and by a couple, I mean I got to play
Speaker 2: the same one three times. It was screaming Nemesis each time,
Speaker 2: and each time because I was playing with five color.
Speaker 1: Scream screaming Nemesis. That's one that has your life total.
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's the one that when it takes damage,
Speaker 2: you can deal damage to something else. Kind of brash
Speaker 2: tauntosh but if it hits a player, they can't gain
Speaker 2: life for the rest of the game. And I was
Speaker 2: playing with five colored monowad angel Aira and who always
Speaker 2: has life gain in his deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, get bent.
Speaker 2: So it's just like there we go, and he was
Speaker 2: just he looked at it and was like that turns
Speaker 2: my whole deck off. And I was like, yep, better
Speaker 2: not attack me then, and then it's like okay, fine,
Speaker 2: I won't and then he attacked Ben and then it
Speaker 2: goes around to Ben's turning like hey, Ben says, what
Speaker 2: it's nice two? Two? You got there? Yeah, I got
Speaker 2: a three three you could attack into and old Aaron's
Speaker 2: gonna take two and can't gain life for the rest
Speaker 2: of the game. And Aaron's like and then we got him.
Speaker 2: It was really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah good. Last time I played a deck played against
Speaker 1: him in one of his stupid life game decks, he's
Speaker 1: at like eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he would have been at eighty nine like
Speaker 2: right away too. Yeah, we got him right at the
Speaker 2: right time, the screaming Nemesis. I can vouch for great
Speaker 2: card fantastic.
Speaker 1: Good, good good, and pre cons. We were kind of right, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're yeah, well you know what we are doing tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We are doing a pre con commander.
Speaker 2: Right, yep, we are doing a pre con deck. The
Speaker 2: buddy that sent it in said that he heard us
Speaker 2: talking shit about it. It's the civic one. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: we don't don't.
Speaker 1: Give you own any more information.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know what, I think I can. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna take this on and I'm gonna I can do it.
Speaker 2: And he built a deck that actually does seem like
Speaker 2: a would be pretty good and it looks fun to play.
Speaker 2: I think is the best part. I'm excited to talk
Speaker 2: about this deck that I do have.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I do have lots of notes on
Speaker 1: it for the booster Pack game. Two ways to enter. Okay,
Speaker 1: you can let us know what pre cons you've played
Speaker 1: with or against, and which ones you like, which ones
Speaker 1: you think we're wrong about from last week's review, or whatever.
Speaker 1: If you have any experience with dusk Wren that is,
Speaker 1: or if you're a Patreon supporter, you're gonna get picked
Speaker 1: at random from all of the active patrons, and I
Speaker 1: have a Patreon winner from last week. Okay, okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna read the name. Okay, and then whoever that person is,
Speaker 1: they gotta let us know via email commanded Cook at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. If you want a CEO sticker pack,
Speaker 1: he Ceco token pack, yeah, or Crime old pack a
Speaker 1: magic Look at look at it on the screen. You
Speaker 1: can you can just barely see the middle finger planes
Speaker 1: Walker stick Uh. Okay. So Matt Moore head which was him?
Speaker 2: Do you think that means he has just like a
Speaker 2: giant head? He has like two scoops of head.
Speaker 1: Or we we went somewhere else with that.
Speaker 2: He's got like an eight head.
Speaker 1: I want two scoops ahead, look on your shoulders.
Speaker 2: No, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: For me.
Speaker 2: Does this guy look like a fucking funko pop like?
Speaker 2: Is that what's happening? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Maybe it does? Warhead get after us if you want
Speaker 1: to win your prize. Have you felt any of the
Speaker 1: impact of the bands the recent bands?
Speaker 2: Remember we talked about I was joking about it all
Speaker 2: of ed, H and M last night as we're recording
Speaker 2: us last night, because I only brought decks that lost
Speaker 2: cards just to like, I'm going to see you know,
Speaker 2: I replaced Manacrypt and what's his name Cox slatting Storags
Speaker 2: with Mountain, you know what I mean, Like, let's let's
Speaker 2: go in and see. And I was just because I
Speaker 2: got blown out first in the first two games of
Speaker 2: God damn it without the car. But I mean whatever, rightly,
Speaker 2: it is what it. I got land flooded and I
Speaker 2: got man of screwed. But whatever, the point is, I
Speaker 2: haven't noticed a difference. I don't think anybody else in
Speaker 2: in our playgroup at the tables that we were at
Speaker 2: no difference, And from conversations I was eavesdropping on, most
Speaker 2: people seemed pretty behind the bannings in.
Speaker 1: Principle, like in favor of the not behind, as in
Speaker 1: they didn't hear about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they're they're they're in favor of them happening,
Speaker 2: but they could see if something gets unbanned in the
Speaker 2: future due to changes in the power of structure of DH, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna be mad. With the exception of dockside extortions,
Speaker 2: I think everybody seems to agree that that one can
Speaker 2: fuck off and stay fucked off.
Speaker 1: Dock side you mean cox slide. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: lots of talks. That's what I a little bit wanted
Speaker 1: to touch on of my Toronto experience is there was
Speaker 1: actually a ton of talk and not any like animosity,
Speaker 1: just kind of and without making it sound all kumbaya
Speaker 1: and stuff, right, but like just general feelings of sad
Speaker 1: or I felt let down, like this shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: how everything happened, and it's too bad that, like the
Speaker 1: vocal minority caused while the Commander Rules Committee to have
Speaker 1: to step down turnover control of the form 're at
Speaker 1: TOWATSI like this faceless personality, less entity for them to
Speaker 1: make these rules, this commander bracket system whatever, that's going
Speaker 1: to look like a little bit more concrete. In addition
Speaker 1: to pregame, in addition to rules here and now we
Speaker 1: have this thing that we have to plug our decks
Speaker 1: into and it tells us what bracket we're in, and
Speaker 1: that's how we're going to decide games. It's like it's
Speaker 1: like turning over what we do to AI to tell us, oh,
Speaker 1: what should command or cookout be today? Via AI? Right,
Speaker 1: It's like, why do we need this when we can
Speaker 1: just be a community and use language to talk to
Speaker 1: each other, right, and I know that we're on the
Speaker 1: same page about this thing, Like it's just don't be
Speaker 1: a dick and actually be honest and forthcoming and friendly,
Speaker 1: like these aren't hard rules to follow, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: the vocal minority is always the one that is so
Speaker 1: so so in your face. And then the result is
Speaker 1: is a very extreme response back to the vocal minority. Right.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that I agree with the vocal minority,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that they are right. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying that the response as a result is also extreme.
Speaker 1: When when the response is like when the initial backlash
Speaker 1: of the bannings was so extreme. Right. So that's a
Speaker 1: lot of what I talk to people about.
Speaker 2: I think that we went past the point of right
Speaker 2: or wrong even being relevant to the conversation, put towards
Speaker 2: the result because it doesn't matter if you agreed with
Speaker 2: the bands or didn't. It didn't matter if you wanted
Speaker 2: the rules community to step down or you didn't, because
Speaker 2: the point the fact is people went way too far,
Speaker 2: and people like were getting legitimate threats to their lives
Speaker 2: and their families' lives, and they it got pushed way
Speaker 2: too far. And I said on the show last week, yeah,
Speaker 2: get rid of the RC. I don't get rid of them.
Speaker 2: I said that, and I got what I wanted, but
Speaker 2: I didn't get it in a way that I actually wanted.
Speaker 2: You know, It's like getting the job because the guy
Speaker 2: who had the job dies, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: You don't want to get it that way.
Speaker 2: And so I feel like that is kind of the
Speaker 2: conversation that people are having, at least online now and
Speaker 2: who I've been talking to a lot of it's around
Speaker 2: like how just brutal and I don't want to use
Speaker 2: the word toxics, it's it, but like it it sucked
Speaker 2: how these people got their their lives threatened and right
Speaker 2: and got torn down to the point where they felt
Speaker 2: like they were in danger and they had to leave
Speaker 2: and hand over it and then the game to wats and.
Speaker 1: They couldn't do this thing anymore, that they were being
Speaker 1: forced out of this thing that they love and care
Speaker 1: for and cultivate, right. And I'm saying that, and I
Speaker 1: know that people are going to disagree with it because oh, well,
Speaker 1: they're in with WATSA, they're watch the employees. They sold
Speaker 1: their cards to make all this money pre band, Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's people that are saying that I'm saying the opposite
Speaker 1: in that the people that were talking like Olivia Gooberthix
Speaker 1: and Jim Lapage and shivam Bot and the people that
Speaker 1: work for Watsie that are the members of the RC,
Speaker 1: people that we know and people that we know have
Speaker 1: a like a deep connection and love for the game
Speaker 1: of magic, who loved the position that they're in, that
Speaker 1: they could help make magic better and they got forced
Speaker 1: out based on slipping up. Really like, did they wreck
Speaker 1: the game?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Should they have communicated it better yes? Yes? Or more timely? Hey,
Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things that we're looking at.
Speaker 1: These are the kinds of cards that fit into this
Speaker 1: category that we're monitoring. Play them or don't play them,
Speaker 1: or keep track of when they affect games in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way and let us know and we can start
Speaker 1: this dialogue, right like, these are the ways that you
Speaker 1: can handle situations like these bannings a very expensive prolific
Speaker 1: cards that didn't happen. But that isn't a reason to
Speaker 1: treat people so poorly and verbally attack them, right, And
Speaker 1: it's I think I think it's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a black mark, like honestly, the bannings on September twenty third,
Speaker 1: little bit of a black mark on WATSY and RC
Speaker 1: for not communicating. But it pales and is a drop
Speaker 1: of water in the ocean compared to the black mark.
Speaker 1: That is the community response.
Speaker 2: I'm taking legal action.
Speaker 1: I'm suing these people. I'm sending them threads. They need
Speaker 1: to their heads need to roll. No, that's a black mark.
Speaker 1: And if that was you, that is that's on you
Speaker 1: to wear that and to know that you caused, like
Speaker 1: lots of people a lot of distress. And I know
Speaker 1: that we're not speaking to most of those people because
Speaker 1: CCO Nation is fantastic.
Speaker 2: Rule number one don't be a dick.
Speaker 1: Rule number two through ten also doesn't be a dick.
Speaker 1: Right Like, so I don't know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: beat a dead horse, and so many, so many other
Speaker 1: creators are talking about that. But I continue to get asked,
Speaker 1: and nearly everybody that I talked to over the weekend
Speaker 1: in Toronto who knew that I was with CEO and
Speaker 1: was thinking and covering this kind of stuff was asking me,
Speaker 1: Like even face to face games employees, right we're saying, hey,
Speaker 1: what do you think. I don't blame Commander, what do
Speaker 1: you think? And I'm like, man alive, tell you it's
Speaker 1: it's not really a good time to be a Commander
Speaker 1: player right now because it was our community that made
Speaker 1: Magic look bad. And it's funny, I'm having deja vu
Speaker 1: because I know that we've talked about this kind of
Speaker 1: thing before. It's like it's not getting better even though
Speaker 1: it continues to happen, and it's so frowned upon by
Speaker 1: the other vocal minority, the people saying the positive good stuff, right,
Speaker 1: but that stuff doesn't get doesn't get the attention or
Speaker 1: get the clicks or the views or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, it was bound to come here. I think basically,
Speaker 2: when everything happened, I think that this is where we
Speaker 2: were gonna end up. I didn't want to say anything
Speaker 2: because but I mean, I think you probably knew too.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit more cynical in real life than
Speaker 2: Ryan is, so I kind of had a feeling this
Speaker 2: is where we're gonna end up.
Speaker 1: But you're also loving and caring, right, like you care
Speaker 1: about these people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm never gonna say, hey, buddy,
Speaker 2: go you can kill yourself. I'm never gonna do that,
Speaker 2: and I'm never gonna say that I'm gonna help them
Speaker 2: do that. So, like Ryan said, like the Bannings were
Speaker 2: the black Eye on command if somebody punched it right
Speaker 2: in the face, real big shiner, couldn't even say got
Speaker 2: hit with the door knob.
Speaker 1: And then they put a sign on their chest saying
Speaker 1: I'm the puncher, right like then they wore it like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was right, and I think that they should. And
Speaker 1: then like doubling down, man, it makes me. That part
Speaker 1: makes me mad.
Speaker 2: And the RC leaving is a chemical burd you poured
Speaker 2: lie on your hand. It's a scar. It's not gonna
Speaker 2: go away. It's gonna it'll fade, and it'll it'll always
Speaker 2: be there. And that's the thing that kind of womps.
Speaker 2: And as much as I didn't want the RC to
Speaker 2: to stick around after the event, I felt like, okay,
Speaker 2: like if this is the kind of thing that they
Speaker 2: can do kind of unchecked on a whim, that's not
Speaker 2: that's not okay. Either didn't deserve response, but still not okay.
Speaker 2: We go back to I remember when the first Commander
Speaker 2: decks were printed, the very first ones, and you and
Speaker 2: Laura and I got into a discussion slash argument, how
Speaker 2: I didn't want Watsey to take control of our casual format,
Speaker 2: and I didn't want that to happen at all, and
Speaker 2: I still don't, but I feel a little bit more
Speaker 2: secure in my what's the word I'm looking for? Faith
Speaker 2: is the wrong word, But I feel more comfortable if
Speaker 2: I'm going to go out and not invest in something,
Speaker 2: if I'm going to buy something that's a little bit
Speaker 2: higher end, that it's not going to get the rug
Speaker 2: pulled out, Because at the end of the day, it's
Speaker 2: better that we have a monster that we're feeding that
Speaker 2: it only cares about this one thing. And as long
Speaker 2: as we all know that, it makes going forward from
Speaker 2: a collector's standpoint a little bit easier.
Speaker 1: Because see, that's a take I haven't heard yet. WATSI
Speaker 1: cares about the amount of excitement in your wallet where
Speaker 1: the RC didn't. And while you didn't want the R,
Speaker 1: you didn't want Watsea to take over governing the rules
Speaker 1: for our casual format. You feel like they're doing it
Speaker 1: in better faith because they have a very clear objective
Speaker 1: that we can measure right. You feel better than the
Speaker 1: Watsi's kind of ethereal objective of we want the game
Speaker 1: to be fun.
Speaker 2: For good or for ill. I think that the for good, like,
Speaker 2: at least we know and it's not that we didn't.
Speaker 1: Know the RSELT.
Speaker 2: The RC was probably planner and they're gonna insider trade
Speaker 2: all these cars. You get ready, Yeah, that's not what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. They they obviously wanted the format to be fun,
Speaker 2: but they had a very amorphous goal in mind.
Speaker 1: And because ten million people play Magic and it's fun
Speaker 1: in different ways, ten different million people.
Speaker 2: People have and you can't make everybody happy, and obviously
Speaker 2: obviously obviously, but when you're trying to make air quotes,
Speaker 2: everyone happy. But at the end of the day, the
Speaker 2: only people that you really want to make happy are
Speaker 2: your shareholders because money that's easy to understand and it's
Speaker 2: easy to work around. And at least we're in a
Speaker 2: framework now where we get it. And I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: say that the sky is falling yet. I think I
Speaker 2: don't think this bracket system is gonna work. I think
Speaker 2: fuck that. But I've also said for years, yeah, fuck
Speaker 2: rule zero two, like just don't be an asshole and
Speaker 2: don't show up to pubstomp people when there's nothing on
Speaker 2: the line, and we're all gonna have fun. And if
Speaker 2: somebody is doing that, remember what their face looks like,
Speaker 2: and don't play with them anymore. If you have a
Speaker 2: friend that's doing it, tell them to stop or you're
Speaker 2: not gonna play with them anymore. That's how friendly relationships work.
Speaker 1: You know, in a real life it's to know what
Speaker 1: the framework is that the governing body cares about, or
Speaker 1: what the end goal of the governing body is. Now
Speaker 1: that that does give you kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: a track to walk along or a pathway to understand along, right,
Speaker 1: whether you like or not. Right. Fun was too subjective
Speaker 1: and too ethereal, right, and what is casual versus what
Speaker 1: is competitive? To ethereal too subjective? Right, But knowing what
Speaker 1: this is, this is we know what this is and
Speaker 1: that's the way it's going to be handled now. Like
Speaker 1: when Commander eleven came out and it was starting to
Speaker 1: become about this soul rings in every deck we made
Speaker 1: up Command Tower. We're giving you new legends that you've
Speaker 1: never seen before, specifically for this format. This is what
Speaker 1: the game is turning into. Give me your excitement, right,
Speaker 1: and if we're all moving along that same pathway. We
Speaker 1: all know what the rules are, and we can all
Speaker 1: reasonably expect that if anything is going to abruptly change,
Speaker 1: it will be communicated before that change happens. So call
Speaker 1: it a blessing in disguise. Ultimately, I mean, you get
Speaker 1: anything big enough and one face, one person, one small
Speaker 1: group of named individuals can't handle it anymore, can't handle
Speaker 1: it anymore, and it needs to be driven by a
Speaker 1: team of people behind a firewall. That is the multi
Speaker 1: billion dollar publicly traded corporate enterprise, evil money like corporation.
Speaker 2: It is has bro till all are one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So man, we probably went I don't
Speaker 1: even know how long, probably another forty minutes on another
Speaker 1: on the ban lists and stuff. But it's important to
Speaker 1: talk about because again, we can talk about it together
Speaker 1: because we know where each other stands, and if I
Speaker 1: think you're wrong, I'll tell you, and vice versa. Ye,
Speaker 1: and we're friends and we can agree or disagree on
Speaker 1: kind of the same terms. And when we talk face
Speaker 1: to face there's tone and inflection and thoughtfulness and facial expressions.
Speaker 1: When you're screaming at a phone screen or your computer
Speaker 1: screen or listening to a podcast, Alan in your car.
Speaker 1: You don't get any of that communication. You don't you
Speaker 1: don't get any of the subtleties. So to really flesh
Speaker 1: it out and get like I say, penetration into the topic,
Speaker 1: I think is so so so important that it's not
Speaker 1: gonna end. So much so that Uncle Brando actually even
Speaker 1: had some feedback from some of the people we go
Speaker 1: to the Coachman Licensed Beverage Room with on EDH Night
Speaker 1: is maybe and let us know in the comments if
Speaker 1: you'd like more talk like this on the show proper
Speaker 1: instead of a deck tech or as many deck techs
Speaker 1: on all of the new products that we do. So,
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll mention it on there. We'll mention
Speaker 1: it on the show too, because I like having conversations
Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, and I think it's really good for
Speaker 1: like CCO nation community building to to let everybody know
Speaker 1: kind of how we all feel without again sounding too
Speaker 1: kumbaya being a fucking asshole or being an asshole. If
Speaker 1: those are the two ends of the equasion, right, we.
Speaker 2: Can all say around hold hands and kiss where you
Speaker 2: can be assholes. And I mean, I guess I.
Speaker 1: Kind of don't want to do either of those. I
Speaker 1: want to. I want to go right in the middle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right in the middle.
Speaker 1: And then it's easy because because like a little bit
Speaker 1: either way. You know, maybe Uncle Brandall gives me a
Speaker 1: misprinted Griffin Canyon one way, and maybe I'll give him
Speaker 1: like a brash Taunter the other way. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, I already have the brash Hunter. I don't need
Speaker 2: to give you.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm giving a team good faith.
Speaker 2: You didn't say that before you gave it.
Speaker 1: Well, no, but I can change the rules.
Speaker 2: No, you can't.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I can't. No, you do that every
Speaker 1: time I see you at CECO Experiences.
Speaker 2: That's my job, though, that's literally my job. That was
Speaker 2: one of the rules we came up with when we
Speaker 2: came up with the rules for the game. Oh, you
Speaker 2: follow the rules, must not die in there. I do not,
Speaker 2: and you were not. And that's why that rule got
Speaker 2: unanimously passed because your team didn't even back you up.
Speaker 2: They backed me up because they knew it would be funny. Oh,
Speaker 2: and that's why I'm Oh, I'm like X and whatever
Speaker 2: Ceco Experiences, I'll win all the time.
Speaker 1: X and fifteen don't even have to show up.
Speaker 2: I just win. Oh, it's pretty good. Well, it's a
Speaker 2: good way to live your life. This is by winning
Speaker 2: all the time and everything, even if you cheat. Nah,
Speaker 2: I don't cheat.
Speaker 1: No, don't cheat.
Speaker 2: Don't cheat it, don't cheat it really cheat, just win.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Toronto Recap, Patreon Sidewalk Slam, we're setting that up.
Speaker 1: We've got a potential date yeah yep, and we've got
Speaker 1: a deck to do tomorrow for sixty Wow hit our
Speaker 1: theme song, Birber