WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.919 Oh ye, folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say, good mind to see this movie When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:15.039 go out to a theater they are cold sodasarn in 4 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:17.239 the monsters in the protection. 5 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:19.199 Booth, everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring? 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:43.840 Cut it off, y, Return for the climactic clash between 7 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:48.799 the forces of good and evil. Return to a galaxy 8 00:00:48.960 --> 00:01:05.239 far far away. Return of the Tedi the next chapter 9 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:10.920 in the continuing Star Wars saga. The battle for freedom 10 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:25.879 rags arm, the heart of a hero, the courage of 11 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:36.400 a rebel, the strength of a leader, the loyalty of comrades, 12 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.280 the power of the horse. 13 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:55.040 The cunning of the enemy. The destiny revealed. 14 00:01:55.040 --> 00:02:03.120 Is the fad of Father, a legend fulfilled, an epic 15 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:07.159 of heroes, villains, and aliens from. 16 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.840 A thousand worlds crap. 17 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:25.039 The quest continues, the circle closes, The saga lives on. 18 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:30.759 Return of the Jedi begins May twenty fifth at a 19 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.639 theater in your galaxy. 20 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.680 Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White, 21 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:41.639 join me once again as mister Jamie Benning. 22 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:44.120 Hello, how are you doing, Mike? Good to be back. 23 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.960 Also back in the booth is mister Stephen scarlatta, Yo, 24 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.159 thank you for having me. Sci Fi July continues with 25 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.400 a look at Richard Markwan's Return of the Jedi, released 26 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:56.639 on May twenty third, nineteen eighty three in the US. 27 00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:59.560 That is, the film concludes the original Star Wars trilogy 28 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.120 was supposed to be followed fairly quickly by six or 29 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.919 nine other films. Instead, it was followed by two Ewok 30 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:11.319 films and some other infrequent bones thrown to fans by lucasfilm. 31 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:14.919 From starting on ted Tween to ending by blowing up 32 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:18.120 the Death Star, the film feels incredibly similar to Star 33 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:21.919 Wars and New Hope, only not very good. We will 34 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.639 be spoiling this film as much as humanly possible, so 35 00:03:24.680 --> 00:03:27.000 if you don't want anything ruin, please turn off the podcast. 36 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:30.400 Come back after you've seen the Abominable Special Edition or 37 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:33.360 any of the other futzedwith versions of the film. We 38 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:36.400 will still be here. So, Jamie, when was the first 39 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.879 time you saw Return of the Jedi and what did 40 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:39.280 you think? 41 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.840 It was one of my very sort of formative experiences. 42 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.240 I lived in a little town, a little village southeast 43 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.439 of London, and on my seventh birthday in June nineteen 44 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:51.919 eighty three. I was taken to London by my parents, 45 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.120 and my sister joined us, and my aunt and uncle, 46 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.520 my cousins joined us as well, and we went to 47 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.039 Hamley's at the big toy store on I was spoiled rotten. 48 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.319 I think I got like snow Speeder and an Attat 49 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.560 and bitfore Tuna, and I remember looking at those card 50 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:07.639 backs with the black dowt Ewoks and all of that stuff, 51 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.639 and then with these giant bags. We went to see 52 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:12.479 Return of the Jedi at the Dominion, which I think 53 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:14.919 was one of the biggest screens in the UK at 54 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.160 the time, on seventy mil I ever remember there was 55 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.519 a Whita Bix advert beforehand. I loved it. I loved 56 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:22.759 the whole experience, and I have an affection for this film, 57 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:24.519 which I think we're going to tear down in the 58 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.160 next hour or so. But I do have an affection 59 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:29.160 for the film because it kind of it was the 60 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.800 first time I think I properly realized that films were made. 61 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:35.279 If that makes sense that there were these names attached 62 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:37.800 to the film. Yes, there was George Lucas, but there 63 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.720 was Ken Rauston and Phil Tippett and all of those guys, 64 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:42.600 because my sister at the time brought her behind the 65 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.199 Scenes book. I bought the story book in the foyer 66 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:49.040 after the film. My parents had pence left to spare 67 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.000 after the Hamley strip and they let me buy that book. 68 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:53.920 And on the train, my sister and I swapped books 69 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:56.040 and I was looking through this thing, going wow, Matt 70 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:59.240 paintings and compositing and model making and all this stuff. 71 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.759 And that's when I think, think that sort of jump 72 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.120 started my love of behind the scenes of movies. 73 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.120 And Stephen, how about yourself? 74 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.920 Uh yeah, I first saw it in the theater. I 75 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.439 was a huge Star Wars fan when it came out. 76 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.399 I was ten when it came out. I vaguely remember 77 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:18.399 seeing the first one and mostly remember Empire waiting in 78 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:21.639 a lobby to see it more than the actual movie. 79 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:25.199 But when Return was coming out, I was excited. I 80 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:26.120 was at the right age. 81 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:29.160 I had the Marvel comic that had the entire movie 82 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.000 and it It took me a month to finally see 83 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:35.199 it because every time we went to the theater it 84 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.240 was sold out or the line was around the corner, 85 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:40.240 and my family was like, no way, We're gonna sit 86 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.600 online for like three hours for you to see this thing. 87 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.759 So it took like a month and it was hard 88 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.360 waiting to Zill see that movie. It was so funny, 89 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:52.759 like maybe when the first Avengers came out, the Marvel movie. 90 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.279 I remember seeing it opening weekend and just being like, Damn, 91 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.800 we're so spoiled today that we could see a big 92 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:02.279 movie opening weekend Wolverine last year, like on a Sunday 93 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.319 morning at eighth in the morning, opening weekend. But when 94 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:08.120 Jedi came out, Dude, you could not get into that theater. 95 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.199 It couldn't And so it was the wait when the 96 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:13.319 movie was out to finally get a chance to get 97 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:13.800 into theater. 98 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:14.639 I think my dad. 99 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.279 Found some theater that he heard about that doesn't have 100 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:20.199 long lines, and that's how I finally got to see it. Yeah, 101 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:22.759 I loved it. I was the right age for it, 102 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:24.439 and I ate it all up Man with a Knife 103 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:26.759 from fork Man. I loved it at the time, but 104 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.040 throughout the years it became the one I watched the least, 105 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.480 and then when I got into film school, when I 106 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.079 rediscovered Star Wars. When I was in film schools, when 107 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.800 I came to realization, no Empire is my favorite and 108 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.000 probably one of the best movies ever made. And so, yeah, 109 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.360 it was interesting returning back to Jedi. 110 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:51.040 For this podcast. I think I saw it maybe opening weekend. Sorry, Stephen, 111 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:53.639 I don't want to rub that in your face or anything. 112 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:54.800 Because i'd let you Q. 113 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.959 Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember how I got to see it, 114 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.000 but I remember it was it was me, it was 115 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.439 my folks. I don't think maybe they just dropped me 116 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:05.240 off or some time. I don't remember being there with 117 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:08.120 my folks at all, but but yeah, I remember the 118 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.519 movie theater. It was the Southgate Theater that eventually became 119 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.079 an AMC, which is eventually now part of the Meyers 120 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.720 Parking Lot Meyers thrifty acres for folks that are outside 121 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:23.680 of Michigan. It's a chain around here. And yeah, I 122 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:27.079 was eleven, so right around that same time, and I 123 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:28.839 don't know what it was like. I think when I 124 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.959 saw it initially I was stoked, but even watching it 125 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.199 the very first time, I was like, oh, they're just 126 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.360 doing another Death Star. 127 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:37.519 Why. 128 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:40.439 The biggest thing for me was Boba Fet when Boba 129 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:43.759 Fett died, and just because I had fallen in love 130 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.000 with that character from seeing you know, the Star Wars 131 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.959 Holiday special seeing Empire strikes back, the whole thing of 132 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.839 Consolo being frozen. I was just so, you know, like 133 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:56.759 what's going on? And I had this headcannon of when 134 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:00.519 Lando reaches down and like checks the vitals, was like, Oh, 135 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.079 he's actually sending it to like defrost in a few 136 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.439 hours or something, So Hana is going to like wake 137 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:09.600 up in the back of slave one and kill Bubba 138 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:11.800 fed or have a huge fight or something in that. 139 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:13.839 I just had it all built up in my head 140 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:15.360 as being like, Oh, this is going to be the 141 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.519 best thing ever. And then when he just died in 142 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:23.160 such a cartoonish way of like just dispatch within thirty seconds, 143 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.199 and I was like, why is he even sticking around 144 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.560 at Jaba's palace? Like he dropped off that the prize 145 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:29.680 it should be out getting more money. You know, bounty 146 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.360 hunters don't make any money standing around Jaba's palace, is 147 00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:34.919 what I think. Anyway, It's not like he's on commission 148 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.480 or something. But yeah, so I don't know. I just 149 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.240 I don't know how soon after because I know, I 150 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.000 had plenty of action figures. I had a lot of 151 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:47.000 Ewok action figures, a lot of those monsters that were 152 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:51.840 on job as barge, you know, uh Rawatu had, those 153 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:53.440 guys had a lot of stuff. 154 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.759 Lando and Skiff God disguised with a little helmet on. 155 00:08:57.000 --> 00:08:59.120 Oh yeah, well, dud, that was my favorite. 156 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:00.360 That was a great for you. 157 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.080 Yeah, mine was bash. I loved Hells. 158 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:06.360 You know what Mike is about. You know, like, if 159 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.440 you compare anything to the Empire strikes Back, you're going 160 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.279 to struggle, right, So imagine if Empire had been a 161 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.600 really shitty movie, the Jed I would probably be revered 162 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.440 today because it would have been a return to form 163 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:19.000 and it would have been back to the formula and 164 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:20.679 the stuff that we love and all that kind of thing. 165 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:23.039 But when you put it up against Empire, it really 166 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:25.879 is a very, very different film. I remember when I 167 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:29.000 sort of rediscovered the trilogy when I was probably about 168 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:32.080 fourteen or fifteen, I think it had come out on VHS, 169 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:33.879 and my mum was like, you really want that for 170 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:36.080 your birthday? Aren't you a bit older? That kind of stuff? 171 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.000 And I remember watching Empire for the first time in 172 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.759 quite a few years and just thinking, because I knew 173 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:42.679 Jedi more because I did it on tape from TV, 174 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:44.879 I think an Empire, I was like, Wow, there's so 175 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.799 much dialogue and there's so much character development, and you know, 176 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.840 compared to Return the Jedi, which as my then eight 177 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:53.320 year old daughter and when we watched it a few 178 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.879 years ago, said to me, it's just a series of 179 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:59.159 set pieces put together. That's kind of what Returned the 180 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.879 Jedi is. You know, you've got the opening, and you've 181 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:03.919 got the sail bars, and then you've got the Yoda scenes, 182 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.600 and then you've got the Death Star stuff, and that's 183 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:07.440 kind of it. 184 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:08.440 But it does stuff. 185 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.679 But I think because of that comparison to Empire. 186 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.200 I was thinking, like, is it like a Halloween three thing? 187 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.200 Like when Empire came out, was it not liked as much? 188 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:21.639 But throughout the years it just gained more fandom. 189 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:23.240 I think a lot of people were kind of pissed 190 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.120 off at the ending, weren't they that it was like 191 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.200 such a downbeat ending. You know, you think about Star Wars, 192 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:30.080 it's all tied up in a bow or right, Vaders 193 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.559 aren't going off and maybe he's going to be in 194 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.120 a sequel kind of thing. But when you get to Empire, 195 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:35.960 it's very dark. You know, it doesn't have a proper 196 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:40.080 ending for people. It isn't like the Bubblegum movie that 197 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.399 the first one was. Yeah, it's interesting to try and 198 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.399 remember how they were perceived in sort of isolation, those 199 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:48.840 three films. But yeah, I think like you Stephen as 200 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.720 well over the years watching back. Even though I have 201 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.000 an affection for Return to Jedi, like I said at 202 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.440 the top, I do know it is the worst of 203 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:59.720 the three by some way. You know, it's actually quite 204 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.600 made in places. There's some really badly focused shots. There's 205 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:09.240 some pretty dodgy editing of sound under explosions and music 206 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.919 editing is also a little bit wonky in places. You 207 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.159 just don't see that in the other two as much. 208 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:17.440 But yeah, I still dinner Well, it's all good man. 209 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:20.799 The first movie felt like it was so poured over, 210 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.360 you know, you had even like Brian de Palmer helping 211 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:27.080 rewrite the open Scroll and the re edit, and Marcia 212 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.399 having her hand in there. And it probably didn't help 213 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.840 that the marriage was kind of on the rocks around 214 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:36.080 this time, so she's probably not as involved as she 215 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.080 was with the previous films. I think that's kind of 216 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.799 a down thing, also, not having you know, it's just 217 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.600 George writing and then Kasden coming in and cleaning things up. 218 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.159 He doesn't have a lead bracket to bounce stuff off 219 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:50.840 of either. I mean, it's just like, I don't know, 220 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:52.840 it just felt like it was missing things and just 221 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.440 having like mark One there, and I mean Lucas just 222 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.240 admitting like I wanted a director that I can control, 223 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.879 basically directing by proxy through poor Richard markwand I always 224 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:06.000 felt bad for that guy. The story is better than 225 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:09.440 the reality, the story that David Lynch tells about being 226 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.279 approached to direct Return of the Jedi and just the 227 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:15.960 thoughts of what Return of the Jedi could have been, 228 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.399 you know, if Doune didn't happen and he directed this instead. 229 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:23.519 I was asked by George to come up to see 230 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:28.159 him and talk to him about directing which would be 231 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.679 the third Star Wars, and I had next door to 232 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:40.360 zero interest. But I always admire George. You know, George 233 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:44.360 is a guy that does what he loves, and I'd 234 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.919 do what I love. The difference is what George loves 235 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.080 makes hundreds of billions of dollars. 236 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.919 That would have been wild, But I can't imagine Lynch 237 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.240 and Lucas's sensibilities getting on whatsoever. But hey, the sound 238 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.600 editing would have been fantastic, that's for sure. 239 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.159 I don't want to be down on any of the 240 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:07.240 sound that is. But that whole Lynch thing, you know, 241 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:10.600 he talks about being offered the film and being with 242 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:12.559 George and then being taken upstairs and there's all these 243 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:14.799 drawings and he's like getting this headache and it's getting 244 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:17.039 worse and worse. In a way, I could sort of 245 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:21.000 imagine Lynch doing Empire more than Jedi, because Empire is 246 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.440 the kind of weird, spooky of film. He's got some 247 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.039 pretty abstract ideas, you know, the dream sequence and all 248 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:28.360 of that stuff, and maybe you know, if you'd left 249 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.399 Lynch alone, like he left Kush alone to do it, 250 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.840 but maybe he would have a very very very different Empire. 251 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.039 But Return the Jedi, I think Lynch probably made the 252 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:38.039 right decision, didn't he. 253 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:39.639 Oh yeah, one hundred percent. 254 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.080 I just love his little quote he was like, because 255 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.720 it was a Georgia's film, he already designed these little 256 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.720 bears and had all this stuff done, and he wouldn't 257 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.720 have had control. And I think you could just see 258 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.159 more of him in Dune versus we'll ever see it 259 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.639 in Return of the Jedi, and we would never get 260 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.600 Blue Velvet as like Dino's Apology in a way. You know, 261 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.360 Lucas is going to give David Lynch an apology movie 262 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.080 after what he puts him through for a Jedi. 263 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:08.840 It's a real shame that, you know, Mark One didn't 264 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.399 live longer, because it would have been interesting to hear 265 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.600 his take on it. There's very little of him talking 266 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.440 about the movie. I remember when I was making my 267 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.159 returning to Jedi film, we mentor you that I dug 268 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:20.320 around for stuff, and at the time, when it was 269 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.039 a two thousand and eight something like that, there wasn't 270 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.440 much around on YouTube of him talking. There's a few 271 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:26.919 magazine interviews. You know, he did want to do the 272 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.480 best job he could. But I think, you know, as 273 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.799 you said, might that you know, he was employed because 274 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.039 he was a fast and efficient director. You know, he'd 275 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:36.759 made that I had the need or I think was 276 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.080 the film that Lucas saw that kind of attracted him 277 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.720 and he found it like really efficiently and moved and 278 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.840 it was kinetic and it was always like moving along. 279 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.879 Every scene was there for a reason, and he needed 280 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.399 somebody that wouldn't be there, you know, going over schedule 281 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.480 and going over budget. But yeah, I would love to 282 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.120 hear his sort of his answers to a lot of 283 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.200 the questions that have been raised about you know, was 284 00:14:57.240 --> 00:15:00.480 he a puppet at the time, because some people you 285 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:01.879 speak to you on the set, I said no, No, 286 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.000 he was very diligent. He had it all in control. 287 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:06.639 He made a lot of the suggestions, including the the 288 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.840 booh stuff and you know, Jabber being there as a 289 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:12.120 prisoner and all of that kind of thing. So maybe 290 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.000 you have more more more say in the film than 291 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:15.720 we realize. 292 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:16.960 I believe he. 293 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.919 Had to say in bringing in Annakin at the ending 294 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:20.559 as a ghost. 295 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.600 I thought, I read that, and I think that might 296 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:22.960 be right. 297 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.159 You know which version of Anakin? 298 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:26.240 Oh my goodness. 299 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:29.039 I always think like Luke is going to look over 300 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.519 at the end of that special edition and see Hayden 301 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:33.639 Christensen there and go, where the fuck is. 302 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.200 That is this guy? I mean, you know, I kind 303 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:37.960 of get why they did it. It really annoyed me 304 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.360 at the time, But now so much time has passed 305 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.879 with the prequels existing in the world, I've come to 306 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:45.639 accept that they're not for me. Then they're for another generation. 307 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:48.799 And you know, when Anakin turned up again in some 308 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:51.120 of the TV stuff, in the last couple of years. 309 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.399 I think it was in ah Soka. I can imagine 310 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:55.399 they were very excited, those fans, and you know, I 311 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.039 can't take that away from them. But at the time, 312 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:59.600 I said, why are you changing this movie? Some of 313 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.440 those tradition changes I do not like. 314 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:04.879 I went last year to like the fortieth anniversary screening. 315 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.399 They had it like over here at the cinema on 316 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.679 the x D screen, like their rip off Imax, and 317 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:12.759 I remember sitting down at first, I'm like, I was 318 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.000 really excited to rewatch it because like some of my 319 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.919 favorite moments in Star Wars are in Return to Jedi. 320 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.679 That's why I have like, I appreciate the movie, but man, 321 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:27.120 when they're at jobs Palace in that new musical number starts, 322 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:28.440 oh good Lord. 323 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.720 Oh my god. It was excruciating. 324 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.960 And then you guys shared with me the original cut, 325 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.840 which I watched, and I had more appreciation of that, 326 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.600 and I was so happy not to experience that sequence again. 327 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.480 And the sarlac hid putting in like the mouth. It 328 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.200 was just like watching it in the theater. I was 329 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.440 so bummed by it. I was like, dude, this is brutal. 330 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.000 And then the effects don't hold up as much either 331 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:57.480 in the special edition unfortunately, but watching the version without 332 00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.679 all that is really good though. 333 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.440 I think the thing is when you see those movies, 334 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.160 you want to be reminded of the time that they 335 00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.039 were made, that they are a product of that time. 336 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.960 Right next week on the twelfth, or this week's around 337 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.599 the twelfth, they're showing how the BFI here the British 338 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.920 Film Institute, they're showing the original nineteen seventy seven Star 339 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.720 Wars Die transfer print in stereo and it's been sitting 340 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.240 in the arcohol Wow for decades. 341 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.720 I'm amazed they're allowed to show that. 342 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.200 I believe it's gone to the very very top. I 343 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.839 won't say any more than that, but I think because 344 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.680 the particular festival it's only is the Film on Film Festival, 345 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:32.839 which is about showing Celli Lloyd. You know, they've got 346 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:37.559 the Twin Peaks pilot without the weird European cuts on 347 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:40.359 as well. They've got a couple of nitrate prints of 348 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.799 older movies. But Stars is the kind of opening night thing. 349 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.319 There's doing two screenings of it, and yeah, it's amazing 350 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.680 that it's happening because even at the TCM Festival, a 351 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.880 couple of weeks back over in the States, the Empire 352 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.079 Strikes Back that was shown with George there was the 353 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.079 special edition again. You know, you've got this one arm 354 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.400 of George and his endeavors to push every thing into 355 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.279 the digital era from the start. But now I think 356 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.119 a lot of these filmmakers are getting to that point 357 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.160 in their career where they're looking back to their origins 358 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.319 and kind of accepting their work to a certain extent. 359 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.960 So yeah, it's going to be interesting. Apparently somebody quite 360 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:16.599 high up is coming to announce the film or present 361 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.599 the film in London, so yeah, I'll feel you in 362 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:21.480 on who that is. But that should be interesting. 363 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:24.440 Oh wow, that's amazing because I don't think I've ever 364 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:29.000 seen those versions since, like VHS or anything, because like, yeah, 365 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.000 like this return version, I haven't seen it in years. 366 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.319 You know, this is the first time rewatching it like 367 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.440 this because I hate all I mean, Lando breaks the 368 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:42.599 fourth wall when he has to lower his like helmet thing. Yeah, 369 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:45.960 but all the singers when they're singing the gibberish, it's 370 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.920 just they're singing it into the frame. 371 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.839 That's where and the tonsils in the back of the 372 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.480 throat of that main singer is just like it just that, Yeah, 373 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:58.000 you're right, that stuff doesn't fit. But I kind of 374 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.680 see those special editions in a way as an exercise 375 00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:04.920 to kind of prove that the prequels could be made. 376 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.640 Could we make digital environments, could we make digital characters, 377 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:09.720 and also to fund that as well, because I mean, 378 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.440 they made a heck load of money back in what 379 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:13.960 was it, ninety seven, so I can see that as 380 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.240 a kind of a stepping stone. But you know, I'm 381 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:19.640 fortunate enough to run the originals in some format, and 382 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.920 I think I was around for the trilogy screening at 383 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.599 Elstreet Studios or the cinema that used to be opposite E. L. 384 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:27.599 Street Studios in the early nineties. It was the last 385 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.119 time the original prints were shown before they were all 386 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.720 gathered up then the special editions were going to be 387 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.440 and I think it was like ninety two maybe, So yeah, 388 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.640 I'm excited to see it all these years later. Yeah, 389 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:40.720 it'd be interesting, But Jedi, I mean, the only thing 390 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.160 that really is miraculous about that special edition is that 391 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:47.160 Fermi Taylor, who plays Ulla the Green Dancer, looks exactly 392 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.640 the same, you know, twenty years on. 393 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.599 While I was doing my research for this, I found 394 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:55.440 there was a whole fetish community around Ula. I didn't realize. Yeah, 395 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.240 but yeah, there's like subreddits and things just dedicated to 396 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.799 her life. What's that rule when something can be sexualized 397 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.160 on the internet, Like, she definitely gets sexualized. And I 398 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.480 think like her popularity is what really spurned the Ahsoka character, 399 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:14.039 because I don't think that Ahsoka would be Ahsoka without Ula. 400 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:15.480 Oh I didn't know that. 401 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, the original Return of the Jedi 402 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.720 had a few frames taken out of it for the 403 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.680 special edition because when she falls into the rank or pit, 404 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:25.920 there is a bit of a moment where her boot 405 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.920 pops out, and they shaved off like two or three 406 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.759 frames they remember for the special edition. Not that when looking, 407 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:32.599 but I just heard that. 408 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.319 But yeah, you're right. It is just like such the 409 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:38.079 series of set pieces, I mean, the whole thing at 410 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.799 Jaba's Palace, I mean that takes up so long. Why 411 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:43.640 didn't they tell C three pm? What was going on? 412 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.799 Why is he so fucking clueless? Like he feels like 413 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:51.880 Marcus and Salah in the Last Crusade, where these really 414 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:56.960 competent characters from the earlier films suddenly turned into complete morons, 415 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.839 and it just feels like he's a moron through this 416 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.640 entire movie. Like we talked about his character in the 417 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:03.880 first movie, and when we talked about episode four I 418 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.079 new Help, which I still hate calling it that. When 419 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.279 we talked about Star Wars, that was the name of 420 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:09.839 the movie. And when we talked about Star Wars, we 421 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:12.519 talked about how George wanted him characterized like a used 422 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:15.759 car salesman, and that was there in that movie, and 423 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:17.799 I could see it in the second movie as well. 424 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:21.359 But there's no subterfuge at all in this film. He 425 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:23.960 just I can't tell a lie. I can't I can't 426 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:25.640 tell these people I'm a god. And I'm just like, 427 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:27.519 haven't you watched Ghostbusters? 428 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:27.680 No? 429 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.079 I guess not, because Ghostbusters was eighty four. This was 430 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.400 eighty three. Right when someone asked you if you're a god, 431 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.880 you see yes. But he just feels so stupid in 432 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.200 this movie and constantly like what did I do? And 433 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.839 like all the slapstickiness, and especially around him, like getting 434 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.640 smacked by Jaba, falling off the skiff, like all of 435 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.319 these things where it's just like what happened to this character? 436 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.640 It just you're undermining yourself. 437 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:58.000 It's in the same thing happens to Harrison Ford's Handsello 438 00:21:58.039 --> 00:21:59.920 as well. He just turns into this dfast as well. 439 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.839 It was just like, what's going on? Oh hit Bob 440 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:03.880 a fair, I'll hang on what your brother's sister? 441 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:07.400 What you know? Come on, tell me what's going on? 442 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.000 I can't tell you? 443 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:17.440 Could you tell? 444 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:17.759 Luke? 445 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.559 Is that who you could tell? I'm always taken out 446 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.480 of a movie if kind of rules have been set 447 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.079 and then suddenly a character does something purely for a 448 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.640 little kind of story point that doesn't fit their character, 449 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:32.759 and I feel return the jedif if you refer to 450 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:35.160 the other two movies, some of the dialogue that comes 451 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:36.839 out of those characters' mouths in that movie, or some 452 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.839 of their actions just really don't fit with what you 453 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:44.119 understand about them. Yeah, that whole thing at the start 454 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.400 with Jab of the Heart, I love it. I love 455 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:47.519 Jab of the Heart because when I first saw him 456 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.359 on screen, I was like, oh, why is that thing? 457 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:49.599 You know? 458 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:52.680 This is amazing and it you know, I'm fortunate to 459 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.960 call Dave Barkley, one of the puppeteers, a friend, and 460 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.599 Toby Fillpott as well, and I've interviewed those guys a 461 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.920 few times and found out all details about that. I'm 462 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.000 you know, I'm far more interested in return to Didi 463 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.319 behind the scenes than I'm actually of the movie itself, 464 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:08.960 since maybe I was fifteen or something like that. But 465 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.000 I still have an affection for those scenes. But they 466 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:13.720 really don't make much sense, you know, the hologram, Like 467 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:15.839 why is he doing that with a hologram because he's 468 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:19.839 coming anyway? Is it like multiple attempts to do what? 469 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.519 But so Laya's there, she's dressed up, she's got Chewy's 470 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.559 and now Chewy's captured. Oh and Hansell has been released. 471 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.799 Now he's captured. Lay is captured. So is Luke gonna 472 00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.039 come anyway? Or is Luke late to the party? But 473 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.200 hang on it, he left that he did the hologram message. 474 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.160 It just doesn't gel. But these things didn't occur to 475 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:39.200 me until I was in my twenties. Probably I just 476 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:41.400 used to sit there and just love all the hardware 477 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:43.359 and the character moments and all of that stuff. So 478 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.359 I don't know I've become cynical in my old age. 479 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:47.279 The Java stuff. 480 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.759 There's still some of my favorite things in a Star 481 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:52.720 Wars film. But you're right, watching it this time, I 482 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:55.799 didn't realize how long it keeps going. You just keep 483 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:59.920 introducing characters and it just goes and goes. 484 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.480 And go too. 485 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.960 Luke comes in, and I guess it's due to like 486 00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.920 so many rewrites they were doing so fast on the 487 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:09.240 movie that it's very off and like you were saying, 488 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.720 just like all the characters are off, I don't buy, 489 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.920 like you said one hundred percent with Han Solo. 490 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:15.480 It's not Han Solo. 491 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:17.480 I don't know if it's the Carbon the Night or 492 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.039 wherever the hell. 493 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.680 He's so much softer in this movie. 494 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:23.799 He's not the Han Solo from Empire, and Darth Vader's 495 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.160 not the Darth Vader from Empire. I don't really feel 496 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.680 like Luke. I guess his development has to be stronger 497 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:33.079 in this movie. But when he's lurking around Jaba and 498 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:35.559 then threatening him and everything, I don't even buy his 499 00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:39.440 threats to Java. Is there just something really off with 500 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.640 the characters period? And I think Ley is just there. 501 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:45.920 And I guess mostly because in the original draft she 502 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:48.519 was already supposed to be on Endoor throughout the whole 503 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.119 first act, and then they were with all the rewrites, 504 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.119 so like, oh, now, she's gonna just appear here, and 505 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.160 I guess that's why she has nothing to do until 506 00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:59.480 she strangles Java. But it is kind of a mess 507 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:01.400 watching at this time, because you guys give me so 508 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.200 much stuff to read and watch, and then it made 509 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.480 me think even more about it, like, oh my god, 510 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.440 this movie is really a mess. I didn't realize. 511 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:12.960 But there's a bit in from Stars to Jedi and 512 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.119 the Making of a Saga, the big long documentary they 513 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.319 released around the time of the Return of Jedi was released, 514 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.480 where Richard Markorn is there looking very officious for me. 515 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.720 He's got his clipboard and he's obviously got like script 516 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:26.519 or storyboard on it, and Harrison Ford says, okay, I'll 517 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:28.640 try and say it without moving my mouth in case 518 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.279 you choose not to use it. So I got the 519 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:33.279 feeling like you were just talking, Stevehn, that the rewrites 520 00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:35.880 were happening sort of on the fly, and they were 521 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.920 having to shoot alternate scenes potentially, or just always have 522 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:43.599 in mind that something might not be used or could 523 00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:45.960 be used in a different way. And there's also a 524 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.359 bit where marketed there in Jabber's Palace again with Richard 525 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.799 Markwon and the energy between them is really weird. I 526 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.240 think he says like old Jabber is becoming a really 527 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.160 big star now, and Mark Hamill says, oh, oh is he? 528 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.200 Or you know something like that. This just this weird 529 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:02.599 moment where you think these two are not connecting. I 530 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.039 don't know, I don't know what it is. I don't 531 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:06.640 think I've ever heard mal Hammill talk about Richard directly, 532 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.599 and I've dug through, as you know, many million interviews 533 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.279 over the years. I might be wrong, there might be 534 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:13.319 something out there, but he just felt like there might 535 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:16.039 have been a little tension on set because of course 536 00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:18.920 this is a massive, massive movie, and the expectation was high. 537 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:22.240 The budget was pretty huge for the time. But again 538 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.680 it was you know, George throwing a lot of his 539 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:27.039 own money in as well, So just some of those 540 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.079 behind the scenes bits, it just feels a little bit 541 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.319 more clunky than it should have been or could have been. 542 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.240 Going back to what you guys were talking about originally 543 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.559 with Empire, going off what you're saying, it's like, I 544 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.000 think that's why this movie is so nice is because 545 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.680 like he knows this is wrapping up with this one, 546 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.000 and he knows the next few things are going to 547 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.640 be Ewok movies and the Droid cartoon. He's trying to 548 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.799 play it as safe as possible with this movie. It's 549 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.640 got to be a success, you know, it's huge and 550 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:00.559 everything has to be played safe. He can't make another 551 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.000 dark sequel. And I think that's why it is what 552 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:04.400 it is. 553 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:05.519 And like what Mike was. 554 00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:09.880 Saying, it's like everything is a callback to Star Wars 555 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.880 in this. You know, it's like the opening is the 556 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.119 same as the opening of Star Wars with underneath the 557 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.640 Star Destroyer and you know some of the stuff you 558 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.680 guys gave me where It's like Jab's Palace is the 559 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.960 canteena scene all over again. You know, it's like another 560 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.240 assault on a death Star. You know, another whole planning 561 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.200 scene about the Death Star. It's like we've pretty much 562 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:30.359 another Yoda scene. 563 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:31.880 You know, Yoda originally wasn't in this. 564 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.759 But the director wanted Yoda in it. It's like everything 565 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:38.039 we've seen before from the previous movie. It's like trying 566 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:38.880 to remind. 567 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:41.200 You, like, oh, yeah, you love that original movie. 568 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.519 We're going to start again on the desert planet we 569 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.839 were already at in the first one. 570 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:49.160 It's interesting to hear some Mark Hamil interviews where he 571 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:52.119 was sort of talking about knowing what you knew from 572 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.880 Empire and the success of that or the relative success 573 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:57.759 of that, and the way the film and the characters 574 00:27:57.759 --> 00:27:59.359 would go in he I think he says something like, 575 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.400 you know, returned to the Jedi. I thought I was 576 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:03.640 going to have this mohawk and I was going to 577 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.640 be like turned to the dark side, and like everyone 578 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:09.400 nobody can believe that I've been turned, and then the 579 00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.599 last minute I kind of save them and all this 580 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:14.599 kind of stuff. And I think he said jokingly. I 581 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.599 think it was on a Kevin Smith round table things 582 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.880 some years ago. He said, I thought Bobaffett was going 583 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.839 to take the helmet off and it was going to 584 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.079 be my mother. And you know, he was looking for 585 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.640 all of this sort of mysterious stuff that had all 586 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:27.319 been kind of lined up, and he wanted it to 587 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:30.240 be answered in some way and to continue going in 588 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.519 that dark direction. But I think you're right, George just 589 00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:33.960 wanted to make sure that it was a prophet. He 590 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.319 wanted to get it done. I think he was probably 591 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.519 exhausted by this time. Like you said, the divorce with 592 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.200 Marshall was going through at the time, and it just 593 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.519 feels like, yeah, we know the formula, let's just do 594 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:47.599 that with a few new toys thrown in. 595 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.920 Even when you look at the scene of later talking 596 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:54.359 with Wicked, it's basically when Luke is talking to R 597 00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:57.559 two and the swamps and or like him meeting Yoda 598 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.599 kind of, but Wicked doesn't speak English, so it's almost 599 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.799 the exact same thing where Leah is doing this. 600 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:09.200 Now cha, well, it looks like I'm stuck here. 601 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.039 Trouble is, I don't know where here is. 602 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:14.000 Now. 603 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:17.680 I gotta do as fine as Yoda if you even exists. 604 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.799 Can sit down, you want something to eat. 605 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.440 This place gives me the creeps. 606 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:28.480 I feel like. 607 00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:33.880 Like we're being watched. Oh wait, put your weapon. 608 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:35.200 I mean you no harm. 609 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:37.519 I promise I won't hurt you. 610 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:38.079 Not come here. 611 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.160 The first movie feels like Luke's movie, right. The second 612 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.039 movie could be Luke or could be Hans's movie, because 613 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.960 they're both equally very important. And then it comes to 614 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.039 the third movie and I'm like, well, whose movie is this? 615 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.440 It doesn't feel like anybody's movie at this point, So I. 616 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.599 Have Vader or the Empress movie. In a way, they're 617 00:29:57.640 --> 00:29:59.160 the sort of biggest character. 618 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.440 Exactly, and I guess it's supposed to be Anakin's redemption. 619 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:04.400 But at the same time, he's been a villain for 620 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.839 two films, very vicious villain, and yet now suddenly we're 621 00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:10.599 supposed to see good in him, and I'm like, I 622 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.799 don't see what you're seeing Luke. And Luke's whole development 623 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.559 feels like it takes place between these two movies, because 624 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:21.599 when he shows up, it's like, Okay, to your point, 625 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:24.200 he's making all these threats. I don't feel like he's 626 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.480 a badass. I don't feel like he's any sort of 627 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.079 threat to Jabba whatsoever. I had read while I was 628 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:32.480 doing my research, so first I read it and then 629 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.880 I saw it. So when I read it, it was, oh, yeah, 630 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:37.680 the movie was supposed to start with Luke building his 631 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:41.000 lightsaber and when the beam comes out, it's green, So 632 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:43.119 we don't know is he good is he bad? Because 633 00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.799 we've seen blue versus red, we've never seen a green 634 00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:49.559 lightsaber before. We don't know what this guy's doing. And 635 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:52.200 so I was like, oh, that's cool, Like throw us 636 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:54.319 off the scent a little bit here at the beginning 637 00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:55.839 and kind of do that thing that you were talking 638 00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:57.880 about where it's like, oh, maybe he's turned to the 639 00:30:58.039 --> 00:31:00.599 dark side. You know, he left his training too early, 640 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.680 all these things. And then I finally saw that scene. 641 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:05.319 I didn't think it was actually shot, but then I 642 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.519 saw it where you see, it's just a connector between 643 00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:13.200 Darth Vader at the beginning talking to jarjirod that imperial dude. 644 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.640 And then we transitioned to Tattooine and you see Luke 645 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.640 working on the lightsaber. You see he's in a cave 646 00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:23.039 and you've got R two sitting across from him. You've 647 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.359 got three po in the back outside, and it goes 648 00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.160 basically right into them leaving and going to Java's palace. 649 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:32.680 So you don't get the sense that Luke has turned 650 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.680 at all. There's nothing there. It's just like, oh, yeah, 651 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.160 he's working on lightsaber. Okay, cool, you know. And then 652 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.359 that even like, had they kept that scene in there, 653 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:42.759 it would have just added more to the confusion as 654 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.200 far as why's he shown this hologram? Like, we know 655 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.200 he's here, we know he's on Tattooin. 656 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:52.400 He feels too invincible also in this movie, you know, 657 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.759 I don't know what his plan was if R two 658 00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:59.319 wasn't there to give him the lightsaber. First, he goes 659 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:01.480 for the gun at doesn't work, And that's the only 660 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:04.039 time you see him kind of vulnerable is the Rank 661 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:04.640 Coors scene. 662 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:06.039 Because every other. 663 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.400 Scene he's just kind of invincible. It's very odd, you know, 664 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:11.920 I'm never fearing for him at all or anything. And 665 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.039 when you see Darth Vader not as himself, like Jamie 666 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:18.920 has that phenomenal film youmentary you sent me and I 667 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:20.799 watched and I was blown away by it. There was 668 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:24.279 a sequence in there where Vader's choking out someone and 669 00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:26.640 I'm like, yeah, that's what's missing from this movie, is 670 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:30.200 Vader choking motherfuckers out because you were threatened by him. 671 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.880 He's so scary an empire, He's choking everyone out. That's 672 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:36.799 just missing from this movie. I guess they have to 673 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.640 soften him so when he turns at the ending and 674 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:43.240 the whole like everyone I guess was expecting was Luke's 675 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.519 battle with the dark Side, it's only in that one 676 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:48.039 scene when Vader pisses him off, when he talks about 677 00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.720 his sister. That's the only kind of time you see it. 678 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.359 But that's not at all in this movie. You don't 679 00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:54.839 really get a lot of that, and It's something they 680 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.319 teased with Daisy Ridley's character that last trilogy and never 681 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:01.200 went through with it at all either. That's like they 682 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.640 always set it up, but then they just kind of 683 00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:06.160 back away from it. And by the way, you're also 684 00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:08.559 right about that Wicked scene. I never thought about it 685 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.920 that it's totally mirroring Luke and Yoda. 686 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:11.559 You nailed that. 687 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.599 There's something about Luke in this. It feels like they 688 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.000 wanted to paint him as getting above his station too early, 689 00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.519 Like Yoda laughs at him, so certain are you? He 690 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.319 says about being a Jedi and that, and then Harrison 691 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.680 Ford or hand Solo should say, has that line, which 692 00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.880 again doesn't fit his character. I've been out of it 693 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:33.160 for a little while and everybody gets delusions of grandeur. 694 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.559 That's not a Han Solo line. It felt like they 695 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.200 wanted to kind of say that Luke is kind of 696 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:40.240 going too early and it's too risky and it's too 697 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:42.960 dangerous and he could turn to the dark side. But 698 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.119 it isn't really developed enough for us to kind of 699 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.359 feel that danger until that very last moment, you know, 700 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.640 like you said, where Vader kind of pisses him off 701 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:53.720 and he goes it gets a bit angry and whatnot, 702 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.319 and then culminates with him throwing the lightsaber away. I 703 00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.839 feel if they'd have built that up a little bit more, 704 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:02.799 Luke is just getting a bit too carried away too quickly, 705 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.319 you know, the quick and easy path and all of 706 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:09.519 that stuff. Maybe mirroring some of those threats Theo's dangers 707 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.320 that Yoda talks about in Empire, it would have felt 708 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.119 like he had more of an arc through the movie. 709 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.400 I just didn't. Yeah, I just don't buy where he 710 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:18.760 is or what he's doing. 711 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.440 For most of I don't want to be this guy, 712 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:25.679 but I don't need to see every scene of connection materials, 713 00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.199 YadA YadA. But it always feels and this is such 714 00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.119 a minor quibble, but I'm going to bring it up anyway. 715 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:33.199 It always feels to me like the scene where he 716 00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:36.320 turns himself into the Imperial Guards and they bring him 717 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:40.639 to Vader. Not seeing him turn himself in is a 718 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:43.840 missing opportunity to see how he would handle himself in 719 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.280 that type of situation. I want to see that. I 720 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:49.519 don't care about him hanging out with the Ewoks and 721 00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:51.599 all that kind of stuff. I almost want him to 722 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.000 leave the story a little bit earlier and separate out 723 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.480 of me, because we see them separate right after the 724 00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.880 whole job of skift thing where you' the Falcon goes 725 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:03.960 right and the X Men goes left. And thank god 726 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.920 he showed up at Dagoba when he did, because if 727 00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:11.119 it was fifteen minutes later, Yoda would be dead again. 728 00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:15.280 It feels like the writing is inefficient in a way. 729 00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:18.159 You know, it doesn't ring true like it does, particularly 730 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.000 an Empire and also in Star Wars. But yeah, you're right, 731 00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:22.480 if you hadn't have turned up, he would have just 732 00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:24.760 got one little croak ten minutes later and that would 733 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.760 have been it for Yoda. But again, it doesn't feel 734 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.440 like Lukey is stripped of anything at that point. Like 735 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:34.000 when you know Obi Wan dies in Star Wars, you 736 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:35.840 kind of go, oh shit, he's on his own here, 737 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.239 like he's just met this guy and he's his mentor 738 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:40.679 and he was going to teach him. What's going to happen? 739 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:40.840 Now? 740 00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.880 Okay, they're escaping the desk Star when Yoda dies, I 741 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.440 think he has that moment, doesn't he. Where he says 742 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.760 to ar To, I don't think I can do it. 743 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.199 I can't do it alone. Then Ben Kenobi arrives, that's 744 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.159 a whole other thing. But I don't feel his vulnerability 745 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.280 at that point as much as I did when Obi 746 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:57.079 Wan died. I still love this movie. 747 00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:59.800 Oh no, it's all good. I'm now trying to call 748 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.679 you you are moron for liking this movie. 749 00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:02.960 No, no, not so. 750 00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.239 I just you know, it is one of my favorite 751 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.119 movies still because it's dumb and it's part of my childhood. 752 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.239 But you know, when you're a kid, these things passed 753 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.559 you by, all these little pot points and things and 754 00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:16.639 character changes and things that don't feel right in the character. 755 00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:18.760 But it's not until you get older you stop picking 756 00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.199 it upart but you never hit people do this with Empire. 757 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.719 Just all the stars aligned for Empire to make it perfect. 758 00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:30.800 Lawrence Kasden, the director taking more control because Lucas was 759 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.320 so overwhelmed by everything. 760 00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:37.199 And the dop as well. I mean, Peter Sushitski looks amazing. 761 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.519 Empire hurts the other producer, Kurts. 762 00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:42.559 I think he got a different producer for this one, 763 00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:46.519 which Lucas had his hands all in this one for 764 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:51.519 sure versus Empire, and not saying Lucas is, you know, incredible, 765 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.280 But I think there was just all these elements in that. 766 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:56.920 And then I think it was also that Kasden had 767 00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.400 Kirshner's back more. And then when it comes time for 768 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:03.320 this movie everything Hasden wants to do, Lucas is like, nope, 769 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:06.199 because Kasin's more in a frame of mind of Empire. 770 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:08.800 He wants to kill off characters. He wants to kill 771 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.400 someone off during the Jaba scene, so the stakes are high. 772 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.840 Well, hell, Harrison Ford was first in line. He's like, yeah, 773 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.280 kill off my character please. It was funny because when 774 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:22.440 they what was the New Star Wars movie he was 775 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.719 in where he died. Was that Arsa Aikins. Yeah, And 776 00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:29.679 I remember right before the movie came out, I tweeted, 777 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:32.320 because it was still Twitter back then, I tweeted, Oh, 778 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.199 I really like the New Star Wars movie. It's such 779 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.599 a shame that Han Solo dies and people were out 780 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.920 for me for blood, and I was just like, I 781 00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:43.159 didn't know that he actually died in the movie. I 782 00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.159 was just taking a guest because I was like, he's 783 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.320 been wanting to be dead too since nineteen eighty three. 784 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.400 He wanted to die in this movie and like, yeah, 785 00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:53.239 kill this character off. I mean, I love Han Solo 786 00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:56.199 but would have really raised those steaks. Holy shit. 787 00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:58.880 Yeah, I had that same guest. I remember saying to 788 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.119 my wife, is the only reason Harrison's going to have 789 00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:04.199 returned to this movie because he wants to be killed off? Yeah, 790 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:06.000 because there wasn't another version of the script as well, 791 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.280 where you know that Blast is chasing them out of 792 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:10.880 the Death Star and there's that little second have they 793 00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.480 perished or oh no, here's the Falcon and the X 794 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:15.440 wings and stuff. They were going to actually get rid 795 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:17.480 of Lando at that point as well in one version 796 00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:19.760 of the script, and again it would have felt like, 797 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:21.880 you know, the stakes were raised, Like you know, when 798 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.039 you take away a main character, you really do feel 799 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:26.920 the peril for everybody else. You think, well, anything can 800 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:30.320 happen now. But yeah, it's just played so safely. But 801 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.119 you know, the other thing I was saying about Peter 802 00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:34.760 Sushitski's it was The dop On Empire. You know that 803 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.039 film looks amazing to this day. I saw it in 804 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:39.480 the cinema again. It was a special edition The Least Heinous, 805 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.400 I guess a couple of years ago, and me and 806 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:43.800 my mate turned to each other at the end and 807 00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.639 we said exactly the same thing. We said, Wow, it 808 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:47.360 still works, doesn't it in that movie? You know, it 809 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.679 still really looks amazing. You look at Jedi has a 810 00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.639 really sort of flat look to it. Alan Hume was 811 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.280 the DOP You know, he worked on some of the 812 00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.480 Bonds later on, but he worked on the Carry On movies, 813 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.119 and you know, he was as DP, and it has 814 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:05.039 a very sort of fight look to it. I think 815 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:05.880 turned the Jedi. 816 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.760 It's not surprising that you said James Bond because I 817 00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.760 actually had James Bond in mine. Maybe it's because I've 818 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:13.960 been doing the ranking on Bond podcast, but I really 819 00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.000 had James Bond in mind as far as those set pieces, 820 00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.280 and especially some of the set pieces that go, in 821 00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:23.079 my opinion, on for too long. I like the idea 822 00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:26.039 of the speeder chase through the forest Moon of Indoor. 823 00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:27.679 I really like that, and I like the way they 824 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.559 shot it. It just feels like it goes on for 825 00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:31.559 a little too long, kind of like a lot of 826 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:35.719 James Bond chases do. But again, I think I was 827 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.519 probably right there with you. Jamie's first watching everything I 828 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:42.280 could get my hands on around the making of this film, 829 00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:44.000 and I did the same thing for Empire. Did the 830 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.599 same thing for Star Wars, because back in those days 831 00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:48.880 you didn't have the Internet. You couldn't go watch this 832 00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:51.480 the YouTube special or something, and if you didn't see 833 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:55.800 it on PBS or on Nickelodeon or any of these 834 00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:58.559 kind of channels, you just didn't see it. But if 835 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:01.079 you recorded it and you could just watch like over 836 00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:03.360 and over again, like how did they do this Starlac 837 00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:05.760 pet thing? How did they do the speeder bike? So 838 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:10.559 seeing the speeder bike sequence taking apart and showing like, oh, 839 00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.559 here's where it's stopped motion and here's how we did 840 00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:15.719 the speed of this, and then having who's a Ben 841 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:17.800 Burt come in talk about the sound effects. I mean, 842 00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.440 the sound affects themselves in this movie, and that's to 843 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.559 me kind of the one of the funniest parts of 844 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:27.119 the film is when C three p I Is telling 845 00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:29.639 the story of Star Wars to the Ewoks and it's 846 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.320 all through the use of sound effects, and I'm like, yes, 847 00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.360 like these sound effects are classic, the whole cranking of 848 00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:39.280 the ad ads and everything, and it's just like, oh, 849 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.400 this is so cool. But of course what I'm watching 850 00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.199 that now, I'm just like, oh, this reminds me of 851 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:47.639 that scene in Rain of Fire where Christian Bale is 852 00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:51.039 in Gerrard Butler when they're re enacting Star Wars, and 853 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:53.960 I'm just like, yes, Star Wars is this classic tale, 854 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.000 like it is the mythology of our times, and like 855 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.480 it's so funny because yeah, like and then like you're saying, 856 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:03.360 we went real dark with the second one, the third 857 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:05.960 one just playing it so safe and just it felt 858 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.440 like it was just such a kiddy movie, you know, 859 00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:11.199 like having the Ewoks in there, having the Teddy Bears, 860 00:41:11.239 --> 00:41:14.880 having the slapstick having like, oh my god, having fucking 861 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:19.039 Chewbacca do a Tarzan yell as he's swinging over and 862 00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.760 I'm like, oh man, it was so funny because at 863 00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:24.719 the same time, as I was listening to a recording 864 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.000 of just Return the Jedi the soundtrack, basically I've flipped 865 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.400 over and I was listening to We Hate Movies talking 866 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.840 about Revenge of the Sith, and they're like, oh, yeah, 867 00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.800 Chewbacca does a Tarzan and yell and I was like, 868 00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.440 oh god, that sounds so awful. And then I listened 869 00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:40.440 to Return the Jedi and he does it again. I 870 00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:42.440 was like, oh fuck, or he did it the first time. 871 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.639 I should say Yeah, there's also that bit with the 872 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.559 speed of bike when the Scout Trooper. I love that design, 873 00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:50.159 by the way, the Scout shoop. Oh, I'm with you 874 00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:53.440 on the speed of Bikes. That was Nila rotis Jimiro, 875 00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:55.360 who again I'm happy to say as a friend of mine, 876 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:59.480 he's actually sending me something very cool this week. Just 877 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.239 to quickly aside, I've interviewed him three times now and 878 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.599 we've become quite chatty on WhatsApp, and he sent me 879 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:06.719 a load of drawings that he did original drawings for 880 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.920 me of his iconic designs. One is a Scout Trooper, 881 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:13.880 but Regal Robot I've been doing these reproductions of macettes 882 00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:16.519 of the characters that you see in that documentary. They're 883 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:17.199 all on the table. 884 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:17.960 Oh. 885 00:42:18.199 --> 00:42:20.159 He made the design of this thing called the Yuzz'm, 886 00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:22.960 which I think is the guy that sings in the 887 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.679 special edition. But originally it's just in Jamber's palace like 888 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.199 leaning up against towards this little guy with like little 889 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:31.840 pipe cleaner arms and a fuzzy kind of body. He 890 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:33.880 was sent one of them by Regal Robot and he's like, 891 00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.599 I don't want it, I'm sending it to you. Jamie 892 00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:38.079 so I'm getting that in the post this week, which 893 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:38.679 should be fun. 894 00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.519 I noticed him too during that making of Just Mike 895 00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:43.840 said it to us, and I was like, oh, he 896 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.599 was a character in I't know he was a character 897 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:48.000 until the special edition. 898 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:50.000 But keep going. I'm sorry he mean to interrupt you. 899 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.440 No, no, that's fine. And Nilo said to me that 900 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:54.199 because he did some little sketch cards to go with 901 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.480 this model, and he said, you know, I got through 902 00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.239 like half a dozen of these drawings and then I 903 00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.320 realized I was bored. And that's why we didn't develop 904 00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:04.039 that character, because it was a dumb character. It is 905 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:06.480 a dumb designed So I'm getting it. But the point 906 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:08.440 I was going to make was about the Scout Troopers 907 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:10.800 was there's that bit where one of them has the 908 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.239 front end chopped off with the like Luke's light saber, 909 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:20.280 and it goes it's like this really really sort of 910 00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.440 cartoony whistling sound as it spins around, and that feels 911 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:28.480 very non Star Wars, you know, like Bember of course, 912 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.119 as we know, went out and gathered all of these 913 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.400 organic sounds, and I think that speed bike sound was 914 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:35.440 when he heard like a jackhammer in the road and 915 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.000 the air hose got a stone in it, and he 916 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:38.480 was like, wait there, and he ran off and got 917 00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:41.239 his recorder and recorded that sound for the speeder bikes. 918 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.360 That's incredible. 919 00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.239 A lot of these organics are grounded, real world sounds, 920 00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.480 and then when you hear the Tarzan call and the 921 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:50.079 spinning speeder bike, it just feels like we're in a 922 00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.239 tech avery kind of environment. 923 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.000 It gets silly, man, the movie just gets silly. That's odd. 924 00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:58.679 I mean because it was for kids. Because I was 925 00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:03.519 thinking about the third Indiana Jones movie at the trilogy, 926 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.039 the Crusade. It's like they did the same thing. You 927 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.960 had this dark temple of doom, and then all of 928 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.559 a sudden they're like, all right, now, let's put Indiana 929 00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:14.920 Jones back as a teacher. You like that, you know, 930 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.400 you like the Nazis, Let's bring them back. You know 931 00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:19.280 you liked all the traps. So in the third act 932 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.800 of this movie, there's gonna be traps and instead of 933 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.159 melting people, it's gonna be ghoulish when he drinks from 934 00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:26.480 the goblet. They brought back the original. So they just 935 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:28.920 they wanted to, like, you know, do like this Raiders 936 00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:32.880 DLC for a Crusade. It's the same movie as Raiders, 937 00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:35.760 and it's soft again and nice, you know, and he's 938 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.039 kind of you know, it's something he would go on 939 00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.280 it to do again. What I appreciate about Jabna's Palace 940 00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:44.159 this time was I didn't realize how they pushed all 941 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.440 those monsters in the front and then they just had 942 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.400 regular people like in the background, you know, cause I've 943 00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:51.199 noticed this time there was some dude that looked like 944 00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:54.039 Candy Man with his jacket just shown behind Jabba. 945 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:55.440 I was like, Oh, there's. 946 00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:58.519 Actually like regular as humans hanging out behind all these 947 00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:01.559 you know, there's that weird monster just chill and not 948 00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:04.719 doing anything. I was like, who all these people gathered here? 949 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:06.760 You know, like you're talking about, why is Boba there? 950 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:08.440 I mean, it must be a happening place. 951 00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:10.280 He's just hanging out. 952 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:14.079 Lots of musical acts there, that's for sure. Hey, Jaba 953 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:17.079 loves his mutancy. I come here for the entertainment. 954 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.320 And it certainly feels like returned. The Jedi is jabbasine 955 00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:23.239 compared to the Cantena scene. It feels like in Jedi 956 00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:25.599 is far more sort of performative. They're all like coming 957 00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:27.800 towards the camera behind Luke, and you know you've got 958 00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:30.199 Claptu there going like this, and the gammery and guards 959 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:33.039 kind of stomping around, Whereas in Star Wars, you know, 960 00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:34.920 they're in their booths, they're having their own chats, and 961 00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.119 then when the lightsaber thing happens with Kenobi, they will 962 00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.159 turn around to look. You know, it feels like people 963 00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.519 are having their own lives, whereas with the Return of 964 00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:45.639 the Jedi and that Jabasine, it feels like they're there 965 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.880 for the scene. To me when I'm watching now, well, I. 966 00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:51.840 Did think it was interesting this time around watching the Jabbazceine. 967 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.599 I guess the bib Tuna dude. Once Luke does the 968 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.400 Jedi mind trick on him, he does kind of disappear 969 00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:01.000 in the back and see three PM steps forward like 970 00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:04.039 he It kind of shows Jaba, like how he treats 971 00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.199 the droids and when he's done with someone, he just 972 00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:08.360 discards them, and you can kind of see it with that. 973 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:10.679 This time around, I noticed it with that character and 974 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:13.079 I thought that was kind of cool, like he's kind 975 00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:15.960 of discarded after that scene to the background. 976 00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:16.960 Bitt. 977 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:19.039 It is one of my favorite characters. I mean, just 978 00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:21.000 the way he speaks in that kind of like pig 979 00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.440 Latin are two daytoa type of stuff. 980 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.559 And he swears like the second he's on screen, like 981 00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:30.239 he calls jab bowanka and I remembers like a teenager going, 982 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.679 WHOA hang on a minute, did did you just say that? 983 00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:36.360 It's such a great design too, you know? Yeah, Like 984 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:37.480 I've always teeth. 985 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.599 I was fascinated by his action figure too as a kid. 986 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:42.960 I think that's yeah, because the figure kind of looked 987 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.440 wet as well, didn't it. It looked kind of slimy 988 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:45.760 and wet. 989 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:49.119 Yeah. And I also wanted to take his head tail 990 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.559 thing and straighten it out and stuff. I love those 991 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:54.000 types of figures, you know, where you can actually interact 992 00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:57.079 with them a little bit more ones with the helmets, yeah. 993 00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:59.719 The robe and the kind of chest piece underneath in 994 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:02.400 the Yeah, and the staff with this sort of spindle 995 00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:02.639 on it. 996 00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:05.559 Yeah. I love that meme that's going around where it's 997 00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:07.800 the I can't remember what movie it's from, where the 998 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:10.800 girls like to say those three words three. 999 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:14.320 Words I'm yours. 1000 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.360 They were no longer thank you. 1001 00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:21.280 That's all I needed to hear. 1002 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:22.360 I do know. 1003 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:25.840 I think of that actor Michael Carter bit Fortuna. I 1004 00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:27.679 think of him every time I go on the underground, 1005 00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:30.199 because he's the guy in American Wealth in London that's 1006 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:31.599 chased through the underground. 1007 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:32.880 Oh really. 1008 00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.360 If ever, I'm in a tube station in London and 1009 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:37.760 it's kind of quiet, I feel like I'm in that 1010 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.960 movie which scared me for years when I was a kid, 1011 00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:40.880 and I think of him. 1012 00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:45.119 Yeah, staying with Jaba's Palace a few more minutes. Seeing 1013 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:49.000 Book of Bilbafet really recast the rank or keeper who 1014 00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.840 apparently showed up in Book of Bilbeffet, but I didn't 1015 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.079 realize it was the same character. But like this whole 1016 00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:57.440 thing of how the bond between a rank or keeper 1017 00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.800 and the rank corps, and like when he cries after 1018 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.960 the ranker monster is dead, I'm just like, now I 1019 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.320 feel totally bad. Like when I was a kid, I 1020 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:08.320 was just like, Oh, isn't that funny this guy's crying 1021 00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:11.480 over a monster. But then now I'm just like, oh, man, 1022 00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:15.360 like this is Pathos right here. And then you compare 1023 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:20.719 that to the scenes of droids have peen sensors. Now 1024 00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.000 this is a thing we put peen sensors and droids 1025 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:27.199 where and that whole thing where the droid is being tortured, 1026 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.159 so reminds me of just like a Disney Rider. Reminded 1027 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:32.880 me of like Pirates of the Caribbean, so funny, like 1028 00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.039 the guy turns the thing, the droid turns, it comes 1029 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.239 down and then it comes back up. Then they just 1030 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:40.440 keep doing that. I'm like, that's odd. 1031 00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.599 It feels like at some point they said they wanted 1032 00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:45.960 sise Noodles in the Rebo band to start up on 1033 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.320 that big scream, and they wanted it to match with 1034 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:51.519 somebody else screaming, Okay, let's make a droid do it, 1035 00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:53.920 and nobody went to droid's scream. You know, do they 1036 00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:56.360 feel pain? It's just they put that idea together and 1037 00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.440 off they went. Maybe George wasn't on the set that day. 1038 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.719 We're talking about how characters might die. I mean, when 1039 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:05.719 Han Solo looks at the Millennium Falcon and he has us, 1040 00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.440 I don't know, it's just a strange feeling. I'm never 1041 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:10.960 going to see her again, that never comes back whatsoever. 1042 00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:13.199 And that's like this moment of pathos where I was like, 1043 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:16.320 oh wow, yeah, something bad might happen, but don't worry. 1044 00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:17.360 Nothing bad happens. 1045 00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:21.159 It's probably when Lando was due to die, right exactly, Yeah. 1046 00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.320 And get mon Matha and her thing where she's just like, 1047 00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.639 oh many bothans died to bring us this information, and 1048 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.639 you're just like, oh, fuck man, that sounds like really intense, 1049 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:33.239 Like give me that movie. Don't give me Rogue one, 1050 00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.760 give me the Bothens that are dying because of this. 1051 00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:38.360 Like that's what I want to see, is like these Bothans. 1052 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:41.000 Well that's much later, of course, isn't it. Yeah, for 1053 00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:43.880 a return of Jabdi. But I tried to recut a 1054 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.440 trailer once I'll make a Return of the Jedi trailer 1055 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:50.639 to make it dark. So I died with every hero 1056 00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.519 has a journey or something. I was sort of mirroring 1057 00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.880 the early prequel one, and I picked a bit of dialogue. 1058 00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:58.079 You know, there's that bit of dollar where Hansally says, 1059 00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:00.800 you're throwing away a fortune here, don't be a fool 1060 00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:03.639 to Jabber when he's trying to negotiate with him. I 1061 00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:07.599 put that in as the falkm was entering the Death Star, 1062 00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:11.360 and I proceeded with a bit of him and Lando 1063 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:13.800 kind of talking or something. So I tried to use 1064 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.639 some of the bits of dialogue to sort of kind 1065 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:18.559 of make you worried about the characters and about the 1066 00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:22.760 iconic spaceship and stuff. And it's amazing how quickly you 1067 00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.800 can snip out certain scenes from that movie and give 1068 00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:27.880 it a darker feel, you know, the stuff with the emperor, 1069 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:30.599 the lightsaber battle at the end. You get that kind 1070 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:33.840 of chorus stone voices that rises up after he says, 1071 00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:37.119 you know, about his sister. There are moments in there 1072 00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:39.239 sort of sprinkled throughout, but it feels that as they 1073 00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:42.199 remove scenes and swap things around, they forgot what they 1074 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.280 also had left in. In some cases that no longer work. 1075 00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.480 You know, they would have worked perhaps with the scenes 1076 00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:50.800 left in. Who knows. But there's a really good book 1077 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:55.880 called The Annotated Screenplays. Lam's really good, and it kind 1078 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.920 of picks out all of those different changes, all those 1079 00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:01.360 evolutions of the script. And you know, it's always tantalizing, 1080 00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:03.119 isn't it for fans like us to go, I wonder 1081 00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:05.159 what it would have been like if this had happened, X, Y, 1082 00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:07.519 and Z had happened. But yeah, I think there is 1083 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.320 a bit of movie in there somewhere. I don't know 1084 00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.159 if there's ever been a fan at it or trying 1085 00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:14.320 to make it darker, because there's probably means to do 1086 00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:18.119 that now. I would think it'd be interesting because it 1087 00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:20.000 is the least favorite of a lot of people of 1088 00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:23.280 that original trilogy, and it's usually number three, So maybe 1089 00:51:23.320 --> 00:51:25.079 it's time somebody does go in there and have a 1090 00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:25.760 little play with it. 1091 00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:29.960 I don't know if you could save it from the ewarks, though, yeah, 1092 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:30.679 we all wish. 1093 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:32.800 That they were Wookies right at the time when George 1094 00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:35.199 was talking about the Wookies. But then we saw the 1095 00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:37.599 Wookies in one of the prequels and it's Revenge of 1096 00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.199 a Sith. Revenge of the Sith. It was pretty bad. 1097 00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:41.440 I love that movie though. 1098 00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:43.880 That's my third favorite Star Wars movie. 1099 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:46.079 I gotta say. But that's why I won't ever be 1100 00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:47.960 hard on you say and you like Jedi, because I 1101 00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:49.440 get it. I have my revenge. 1102 00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.039 This that's my third favorite. It just got re released 1103 00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:53.920 and my friends want to see. I'm like, it's so good, 1104 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:55.400 like hatting and blowing me off. 1105 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:58.639 It's great. It did really well. It got like in 1106 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:01.760 the top five movies week, Hid in the Chops. 1107 00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:03.760 Oh did he over here too? And then it was 1108 00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:04.760 gone in a week later. 1109 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:06.719 I wasn't able to go see it. I was so 1110 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:08.639 bummed that was just a week release. 1111 00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:10.719 But going back to what you were saying about the 1112 00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:13.239 Lando and the Millennium Falcon, what I always got from 1113 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:16.960 that scene was him telling there won't be a scratch 1114 00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:19.079 on it, and then you start seeing it get messed up. 1115 00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:21.559 It turned into like that Corey Haym Corey feld Me 1116 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:23.719 movie License to Drive, where he has he. 1117 00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:26.599 Starts messing it up again, it just goes silly. 1118 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.119 I just think the first half of this movie with 1119 00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:31.559 Jaba and the Starlac pit and all that stuff, but 1120 00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:34.719 then once they start getting on. I love the speeder 1121 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:37.079 bike scene though too. It's one of my favorite things. 1122 00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:39.159 But after that is when I start to tune out. 1123 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:41.920 I mean, even though one of my favorite shots in 1124 00:52:41.960 --> 00:52:44.880 the Star Wars movie is the POV from the cockpit 1125 00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:47.239 with all the tie fighters coming at it, that's probably 1126 00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:50.719 one that in the Star Destroyer crashing it to the 1127 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.599 other those are some of my favorite moments from a 1128 00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:57.280 Star Wars movie. I love that stuff, but it's just 1129 00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.800 unfortunately for me, it's like not my least favorite Star 1130 00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.920 War movie by a mile at all. But as an adult, 1131 00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:05.239 when I was a kid, I loved the Ewoks stuff. 1132 00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.719 I loved it, but as I got older, it just, yeah, 1133 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:09.719 it doesn't work for me as it used to when 1134 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:10.440 I was younger. 1135 00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:12.599 And I think that's how it is. What a lot 1136 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:13.639 of adults. 1137 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.159 Mentioning those battle scenes at the end, you know, some 1138 00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.480 of the best battle scenes in those Star Wars movies 1139 00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:22.679 and even some of the late ones. The complexity of 1140 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.599 some of those shots. There's a documentary which I'm sure 1141 00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:26.719 you would have seen at some point. It's called How 1142 00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:29.760 to Film the Impossible, and they visit ILM and this 1143 00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:32.519 guy's got like the sheet of like a three paper 1144 00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:35.280 and it's got like a grid on it, and there's 1145 00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:39.719 an X to mark where every ship interacts with another 1146 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:41.639 ship or crosses the path of another ship in that 1147 00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:44.559 famous shot where there's like seventy five elements or something. 1148 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:47.119 Just the complexity that they had to go through doing 1149 00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:49.400 that optically just kind of blows my mind. I've spoken 1150 00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.039 to some of those guys on my podcast, and I 1151 00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:55.000 can never quite come to terms with just how difficult 1152 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:58.039 that must have been to kind of imagine and plot 1153 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:02.320 out and then do optically and still maintain the resolution. 1154 00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:05.039 And you know, there is a mistake and if famously 1155 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:06.440 there is a mistake and it where two Ti fi 1156 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:09.119 as appear in front of the falcon rather than behind 1157 00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:11.639 it where they should be, just for a frame or two. 1158 00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:14.960 But yeah, some of that stuff in those those bat scenes, 1159 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.400 it's just fantastic, just the sort of choreography of it, 1160 00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:19.760 the way that you can read those shots and understand 1161 00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.840 the geography, and they're doing that with models, you know, 1162 00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:25.599 and doing it optically compositive. It's pretty amazing. 1163 00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:31.039 Well, even just the shots of the Ewok encampment where 1164 00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:33.760 you've got the three or four different planes of action 1165 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:36.320 and you see them in the trees and everything. I 1166 00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:39.000 was just like, that's really gorgeous because I think of 1167 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:41.199 something like, you know, Fellowship of the Ring and they 1168 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:44.400 do something similar with when they come to Ribondll and 1169 00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.000 you just see like, oh, yeah, here's this fore ground, 1170 00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:49.679 here's this background, here's this mid ground action. But to 1171 00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:54.159 do that all with Matt paintings and double exposures and 1172 00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:57.440 all these things, it's just like, wow, that's pretty amazing. 1173 00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:00.800 Some of the best matte paintings in the I would say, 1174 00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:03.519 you know, Mike, Mike Pangrats, you know, Chris Evans and 1175 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:05.599 I think Harrison Ellershaw might have done some as well, 1176 00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:08.039 but yeah, some of that. Whenever you see those posters 1177 00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:10.320 online like these are matte paintings, there's always a thousand 1178 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.320 people going, wow, I didn't know this was a mate painting. 1179 00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:14.679 It's such an amazing sort of lost art. 1180 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:18.079 In a way. Leader's entrance into the movie with all 1181 00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:20.639 of the troopers there, and you're just like, that's a 1182 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:24.679 mate painting. Like the guys that are moving are all real, 1183 00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:27.599 but then all these stormtroopers standing here, I'm just like, 1184 00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:30.199 holy shit, that is amazing that you could do that. 1185 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.159 The concept of that Death Star just half built. I 1186 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:35.079 think it's iconic. 1187 00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:36.119 It's gorgeous. 1188 00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:39.119 Yeah, it really is a nice design. There's some fantastic 1189 00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.159 designs in this film. They feel like they belong, don't 1190 00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.119 they that Every kind of even the speed bikes you could, 1191 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:48.239 oh yeah, they feel like Star Wars instantly. I think, 1192 00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:52.239 you know, having those same design as through the trilogy, 1193 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:56.800 you know, Nilo and the others, Joe Johnston and yeah, just. 1194 00:55:56.840 --> 00:56:00.559 Even having Joe Johnston and Ralph mcquarie doing those paintings, 1195 00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.320 I mean, it's amazing. Now when I watch some of 1196 00:56:03.400 --> 00:56:05.760 the newer Star Wars stuff, and I'll be like, oh, 1197 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:08.039 I've seen that before. Where have I seen that? And 1198 00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:11.039 then I think back to those old paintings from seventy 1199 00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:13.039 seven to eighty eighty three, and I'm just like, that's 1200 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.719 where I saw it. Like those images are so burn 1201 00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:19.280 in my mind, like seeing a throwaway character in like 1202 00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:21.599 the Han Solo story and I'm like, oh, that was 1203 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:23.280 one of those McQuary paintings. 1204 00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:27.719 Oh yeah, I think the Mandalorian used like concept art 1205 00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:31.000 from Empire dyn used with like the ice spiders or something. 1206 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:33.440 And what that's right, Yeah, that was a mcquarie, wasn't it. 1207 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.880 When you watch all the making of and then you 1208 00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.519 know this little book where you just see like the bibfit, 1209 00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.599 you know, whatever made it on screen, there was concepts 1210 00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:45.280 before it, a number of concepts before it that got there. 1211 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:47.280 All the concepts are amazing. 1212 00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:50.320 Also, it's just like, but you know, they just couldn't 1213 00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:51.239 pull it off yet. 1214 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:54.960 We should probably address the elephant or the bantha in 1215 00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:58.000 the room and talk a little bit about the sister 1216 00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:01.440 and just this whole from a certain point of view, 1217 00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:04.800 And yes, there is another kind of thing. That was 1218 00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:07.079 the thing I was talking about in that people just 1219 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:10.079 don't believe when you tell them how much Star Wars 1220 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:13.159 changed from beginning to end, because somehow George seems to 1221 00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:15.360 have sold it that he knew exactly what he was 1222 00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.519 doing from the beginning, and I'm just like, no, that 1223 00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:22.679 is the absolute opposite of truth. He did not. He 1224 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.840 might have had a plan, but it changed so much 1225 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:28.880 as it went along. I have concepts of a plan. 1226 00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:31.719 My god, this whole thing of we're going to retro 1227 00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:36.719 fit Anakin to be your father, and that albi Wan 1228 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:40.320 didn't tell you about this stuff, and surprise, you have 1229 00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:43.880 a sister, so I guess the whole sister thing. It 1230 00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:47.159 just feels like a way to resolve the romance between 1231 00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:50.960 Han and Luke and Lea. It doesn't add anything to 1232 00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.440 the story whatsoever. It might have like back during you know, 1233 00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.639 Splinter in the Mind's Eye or something like that, have 1234 00:57:56.760 --> 00:57:59.239 we learned that they were brother and sister? And that's 1235 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:04.000 what those like training scenes in one of those second 1236 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.800 second trilogy things like where we had the fake layer 1237 00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:11.800 that just looked absolutely terrible, you know, the d aged layer. 1238 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:13.800 Like I was like, oh, well, that reminds me of 1239 00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:15.559 this thing. But yeah, it's like, why do we have 1240 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:18.360 to have that, I guess now because of the force 1241 00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:22.519 powers that Ben Solo ended up having. But again, that 1242 00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:24.880 just was all, we don't know what the hell we're 1243 00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:26.920 doing when it came to that second trilogy. 1244 00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:29.840 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right about George, you know, 1245 00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:32.480 and him kind of changing his mind with you. All 1246 00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:34.599 you got to do is look at those annotated scripts 1247 00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:37.599 in that book and look at any interviews he gave 1248 00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:39.760 early on. Yes, he had plans in his mind to 1249 00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:43.199 make multiple movies and relogies potentially, but he was mixing 1250 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:45.119 and matching ideas, you know, and that's what he did. 1251 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:47.519 And you know, like every creative endeavor, you have to 1252 00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:49.280 think on your feet on the day and try and 1253 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:51.400 make the best of it. And I think occasionally he 1254 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:55.000 just kind of like lost sight of where things were going. 1255 00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:58.480 I mean, if it was always his plan for Luke 1256 00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:00.920 and Leia to be brother and then what the heck 1257 00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:03.679 was he doing in the Empire strikes back with them 1258 00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:07.000 sort of creating a kind of love triangle. And yes, 1259 00:59:07.079 --> 00:59:09.480 that idea was there in early concepts that they were 1260 00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:11.760 brother and sister, but then he sort of abandoned that. 1261 00:59:11.920 --> 00:59:15.199 But then, oh, I've got enough money to make another movie. Okay, 1262 00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:17.480 now we need to kind of resolve this, you know, 1263 00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:20.599 like he didn't originally have Obi being killed off at 1264 00:59:20.639 --> 00:59:22.000 the start, you know, and then he realized he was 1265 00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:24.800 just standing around and had to have that conversation with Guinness. 1266 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:26.880 I always think back to, like, there's that moment where 1267 00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:29.159 Luke says in Star Wars, how did you meet my father? 1268 00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:31.519 Or how did you know my father? And Alec Guinness 1269 00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:33.360 does this kind of intake of breath and he looks 1270 00:59:33.400 --> 00:59:36.360 the other way, like, chit, I've got to tell this story. 1271 00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:38.400 But I remember seeing an interview the Guinness where he 1272 00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:41.920 said that at that point, I sort of assumed that 1273 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.760 there was a backstory. So I just realized that if 1274 00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:47.280 I just did a little thing with my face, that 1275 00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:49.519 it would look like this, some big deal went on 1276 00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.920 all those years ago between us. And of course that 1277 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:56.280 now has resonance because of we know what I'm you know, 1278 00:59:56.519 --> 01:00:00.480 evolved afterwards and unfolded afterwards. But yeah, I find those 1279 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:04.159 sequences really weird. In returns to edit, when Luke tells 1280 01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:09.000 Lea that Vader's his father, her reaction is really odd. 1281 01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:12.320 If she's figuring out, oh, hang on, he's my father too, 1282 01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:16.719 and he tortured me. And we've been chasing across the 1283 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:19.000 galaxy trying to, you know, get rid of this guy. 1284 01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:23.519 And where's the moment where she even reacts to them 1285 01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.400 being siblings or that she's the daughter of Vader That 1286 01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.719 it's just not there. It just feels really weird, that 1287 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:31.639 whole scene. And then Han Solu comes in and he 1288 01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:33.559 does that really weird sort of patting on the back thing, 1289 01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:36.320 kind of looking around with Leia. None of that feels 1290 01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:38.480 I think the only thing that really carries that is 1291 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:41.760 the kind of is the atmosphere there. There's that mist 1292 01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:44.480 sort of hanging in the air, and it's quiet out 1293 01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:46.320 the back while all the other stuff's going on, and 1294 01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:49.239 then there's that nice Luke and Layer score going on. 1295 01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.360 I think it would have benefited from having a few 1296 01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:53.679 more takes or a few more. 1297 01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:56.199 Rewrites that he'll see, You'll tell Luke. 1298 01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:59.559 Caudi another unhandshole of the moment. But where I find 1299 01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.119 fasting about the other thing is I was too young 1300 01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:04.280 when I saw an empire in the theater to catch 1301 01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:05.239 the other line. 1302 01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:07.239 It wasn't until like the. 1303 01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:09.719 Secret History of Star Wars, when I listened to that 1304 01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:13.079 book over and over again. I realized, like how people 1305 01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:17.280 were like, who is the other? And listening to that book, 1306 01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:20.000 it's about oh, because George was going to do another 1307 01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.719 trilogy and the other was going to be carried on. 1308 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:26.760 According to that book, that's what the other was supposed 1309 01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:29.039 to be the character that was going to be in 1310 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:31.639 the sequel trilogy, because at that point that George Lucas 1311 01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:33.880 was like, I'm making another trilogy after this, and then 1312 01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.840 somehow while doing Return, he just got burned out and 1313 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.239 was like, all right, we're not doing that. There was 1314 01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:43.280 a star log I wish I wrote down which date 1315 01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:45.639 it was, but it says right in front of me, 1316 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:49.400 Star Wars saga continues and it says, you know, Revenge 1317 01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:50.679 of the Jedi is released. 1318 01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:52.440 I was back when I still called Revenge of the Jedi. 1319 01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:55.039 On May twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three, the firm begins 1320 01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:57.920 plans for the next trilogy of films in the nine 1321 01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:01.159 part saga, you know, so they were ready to go 1322 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:04.239 with it, and I guess he just got so burnt 1323 01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:06.440 with Jedi and just knew it's gonna be a nice 1324 01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:08.519 movie and we're gonna have the Ewok stuff, and he 1325 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:10.760 doesn't want to do him anymore. But and then that's 1326 01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:14.480 when the other turns into Princess Leia. It was like, Okay, 1327 01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:15.880 now I can turn her. 1328 01:02:16.119 --> 01:02:16.840 Into this other. 1329 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.360 But I guess people were so upset buck in that 1330 01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:22.920 for waiting three years to find out who the other was. 1331 01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:25.960 I was too young at the time, so but that stuff. 1332 01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:28.880 I was all learning from secret history of Star Wars. 1333 01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:32.360 But I'm And then they said in this Starlog article 1334 01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:37.400 that they were gonna do the sequel trilogy in reverse order. 1335 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:41.440 They were gonna do three, two and then one. Wow, yeah, 1336 01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:43.119 I have it right, I'm looking right at it. 1337 01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:46.159 That wasn't Starlog, so they did when it was Revenge 1338 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:47.840 to Jedi before it turned into Return. 1339 01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:49.719 They still had thoughts of. 1340 01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:52.719 Making other Star Wars movies, but then some maybe it 1341 01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.960 was the divorce and everything where he was just like, 1342 01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:57.280 this is maybe ruining me and I want to keep 1343 01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:00.599 doing Star Wars is maybe the technology is not where 1344 01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:02.360 I want it yet, and I'm going to take some 1345 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:02.920 time off. 1346 01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:06.119 I'm going to make a lot of experimental films. Now 1347 01:03:06.480 --> 01:03:11.280 that's my dream. Where Sho got yeah, yeah, we got 1348 01:03:11.320 --> 01:03:11.920 Howard the Duck. 1349 01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:15.280 That's kind of experimental, and Tucker. 1350 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:18.400 I tried watching those two Ewach movies today. 1351 01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:22.400 Holy shit, I haven't met That was probably my worst 1352 01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:28.320 cinema experience as a kid. I remember saying yeah, yeah, 1353 01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.159 and my parents said, oh yeah, We've got surprise for you, 1354 01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:34.239 and they gave me this tick and I was like 1355 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.400 the Star Wars like wow, and I'm sitting there going 1356 01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:40.559 where's Luke, Where's Hans Solo, where's Princess Leia? 1357 01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:41.599 What is this thing? 1358 01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:45.079 And I remember walking out of the cinema and I 1359 01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:46.840 was that eighty five, so I would have been like 1360 01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:49.639 eight or nine years old. I think it's the first 1361 01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:53.800 time I really experienced like the proper disappointment because where 1362 01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:55.840 are my favorite characters. I want to see the further 1363 01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:58.159 adventures of these people, you know, where is it? 1364 01:03:58.960 --> 01:03:59.119 Yeah? 1365 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:01.360 The old look is good either, right, the euarks in there. 1366 01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:04.119 No, they were made pretty cheaply, you know, and they 1367 01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:06.400 were made or it's like the other thing you think 1368 01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:08.440 about Jedi, you know, as opposed to the other two. 1369 01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:10.320 You know, the first one they went to Chinisia. They 1370 01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:12.400 went to the UK of course to shoot an Elstree. 1371 01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:15.519 Second one they went to Fincer in Norway and then 1372 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.719 back into the UK. Obviously also Elstreet's returned to Jeddo. 1373 01:04:18.760 --> 01:04:20.559 But then they did the rest of it in the States, 1374 01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:23.440 you know, they it feels like they didn't kind of 1375 01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:25.800 branch out and go to some exotic place, so you 1376 01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.239 do kind of go, oh, yeah, that's the Redwood Forest 1377 01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:30.920 and oh yeah, that's that's you Arizona. 1378 01:04:31.159 --> 01:04:31.360 Yeah. 1379 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.400 Yeah, maybe that was a budgetry thing as well, or 1380 01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:36.920 just to you know, you can kind of understand why 1381 01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.960 Lucas ended up doing so much digitally because all of 1382 01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:42.639 the pain he went through his sets being blown away 1383 01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:47.320 and flooding and white outs and snowstorms and all of 1384 01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:49.320 that stuff. I can totally understand it. 1385 01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:52.760 With the Sands storm that didn't get included. 1386 01:04:53.679 --> 01:04:56.280 But I did the shark documentary Shark Exploitation. When I 1387 01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:00.880 interviewed Carl Galtlieb and Joe Alves, they boil said and 1388 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:03.800 swear by they wish they could have done CG with 1389 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:05.679 the shark. They were like, you know, even though we 1390 01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:08.800 love that fucking shark, we love it and we wouldn't 1391 01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:10.719 want a CG. But according to them, they're like, in 1392 01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:13.519 a second, that's what they wish they had because they're 1393 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:16.079 the ones that were in the trenches dealing with it 1394 01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:18.519 and the stress and the harp. 1395 01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:21.480 But they in a second, we'd want to do a 1396 01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.719 CG One Shark. 1397 01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:25.960 Absolutely. I mean, I'm making this Joe Al's documentary, have 1398 01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:28.079 been for a couple years and we're going out to 1399 01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:31.000 Martha's Vineyards next week to shoot some stuff with Joe. 1400 01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:33.960 And what's the line Joe said, you know, you might 1401 01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:35.960 as well give it a go because it's going to 1402 01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:38.280 be the best there is because nobody else is trying it, 1403 01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:40.000 you know. And that's how they kind of approached George. 1404 01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:42.000 It's like, yeah, Okay, we're gonna make this thing. We're 1405 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.280 gonna put it in the sea, and we're gonna have 1406 01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:46.840 to find this location with the bed of the beach 1407 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:48.920 has got to be this height and that they've got 1408 01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:51.320 to find, you know, places inland, and it turns out 1409 01:05:51.320 --> 01:05:55.079 Martha's Vineyard is the right place. George talks about building 1410 01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.000 the sal barge in Return to Jedi, how it took 1411 01:05:58.119 --> 01:06:01.000 three hundred laborers, five months, whatever the stats are, he 1412 01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:03.280 says in that documentary, and then it's on film for 1413 01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:06.360 like minute and a half, two minutes or something. You 1414 01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:08.239 just have to kind of do the best that you 1415 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:10.559 can to get that thing. You don't need to show 1416 01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:13.079 off the thing that you've made. I think that's one 1417 01:06:13.079 --> 01:06:15.079 of the real lessons I learned from Georgie in that 1418 01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:20.320 documentary is you know, you shouldn't ever give yourself a 1419 01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:22.559 pout on the back for the graft that you've done, 1420 01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:25.599 the work that you've gone through, because maybe you need 1421 01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:28.000 to cut that shot out. Actually maybe it doesn't work. 1422 01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:30.000 Maybe it did take six months to get but maybe 1423 01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:32.559 it needs to come out of the movie. Maybe return 1424 01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:35.559 the Jedi needs more of this teachings. 1425 01:06:36.440 --> 01:06:39.800 Yeah, that's sail bars and then the Sarlac set that 1426 01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:42.840 they did. It is huge and it'sn't seen to wrap 1427 01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:44.480 your head around that they built all that. 1428 01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:46.679 I hate this whole thing that we have to go 1429 01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:50.559 back to tatuin why was Jabba? We don't have the 1430 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:54.199 scene of him coming to the docking bay and threatening 1431 01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:56.880 hand Solough in the world that the three of us 1432 01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:00.639 grew up and that scene didn't exist. I was job 1433 01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:04.679 on tattooing, Like why couldn't his palace have been someplace else? 1434 01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:06.599 And it just feels like we keep coming back to 1435 01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:09.800 tattooing and like all of these even when it's not tattooing. 1436 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:12.920 It's Jaku. It's another desert planet. And I'm just like, 1437 01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:15.639 come on, guys, like you know, Luke says in the 1438 01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:17.639 first movie, if there's a bright. 1439 01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:19.960 Center of the universe, you're on the planet that is farthest. 1440 01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:24.519 From classic line. This is the backwater burb. But instead 1441 01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:27.599 it becomes the center of the fucking universe for all 1442 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:30.480 nine movies. And you're just like, for christis, can we 1443 01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:33.480 get away from tattooing? Thank God? They don't go back 1444 01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:36.719 to tattooing in an empire. Use some other planets, man, 1445 01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:39.559 Let's go see some other places. But this is just like, 1446 01:07:40.039 --> 01:07:42.400 all right, we're back here. We're doing this again. And 1447 01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:46.039 you know, basically, they replace Darth Vader as a bad 1448 01:07:46.119 --> 01:07:49.119 guy with the Emperor. And even when it came to 1449 01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:51.639 the Emperor as a kid, I was a little disappointed 1450 01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:53.519 because I was like, oh, he's just a little old man, 1451 01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:57.440 like I was expecting somebody like tall and grandiose and 1452 01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:00.159 somebody very very commanding. Instead he's just like he's like 1453 01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:03.280 mister Burns basically, the way he carries his hands and stuff. 1454 01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:06.480 It paid a pretty penny for this pretty penny, but 1455 01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.880 it was worth it, though, I do love what a 1456 01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:12.679 snide bastard he is, especially when they're. 1457 01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:19.199 Like, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational 1458 01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:21.520 when your friends are right. 1459 01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:26.319 Oh man, the way he's just mocking Luke, I'm like, Okay, 1460 01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:29.720 that's pretty good. I like that and like mcderman's voice, 1461 01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:31.199 especially in this movie. 1462 01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:34.159 I think it's the best sort of version of the Emperor. 1463 01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:36.079 I think in the pre cause it just feels like 1464 01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:38.680 he's wearing this really big kind of prosthetic and it 1465 01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:41.680 all feels a bit fake where he's sort of hooded 1466 01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:44.079 and you don't quite you see his piercing eyes, but 1467 01:08:44.119 --> 01:08:46.279 you don't get kind of good look in. I think 1468 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:48.399 that's a good thing In Jedi. I quite like the Emperor. 1469 01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:52.319 It's a terrible action figure. I remember sending off like 1470 01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:54.439 give it a row. I remember sending off tokens for 1471 01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:56.279 that like, and it was like one per household and 1472 01:08:57.439 --> 01:08:59.319 one to my other grandparents, one to my house. And 1473 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:03.000 then I got, wow, it looks it looks like my nana. 1474 01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:06.520 Those little Kenner proofs of purchase. Well, and then it 1475 01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:09.720 had the electric like plastic thing that you could put 1476 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:12.079 on it so it looked like force the original I 1477 01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:13.199 didn't have that either. 1478 01:09:14.840 --> 01:09:18.279 Ninety Yeah, this one was just like the walking stick 1479 01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:20.159 and a gray thing with a face. That was it, 1480 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:23.840 and the cloak was plastic. It was no, they didn't 1481 01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:25.199 give you it was the moment, wasn't it. 1482 01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:25.800 Yeah? 1483 01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:29.800 Why were jawas the best action figures because they had 1484 01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:30.960 the cloth cloaks. 1485 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:34.399 I had another Ben Canobi and I painted it like 1486 01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:38.800 gray and put Luke's Jedi robe on him and that 1487 01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:40.159 was my Emperor nice. 1488 01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:42.720 I was so cussed up with that much better. Well, 1489 01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:44.640 you're talking about tattoo in. I mean it was going 1490 01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:47.000 back to what I was talking about with Raiders of 1491 01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:49.720 the Lost Stark. I think they just want to remind 1492 01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:53.479 people everything from the first movie again somehow by putting 1493 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:56.239 it back there. That's my only thought of why they 1494 01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.359 wouldn't put him somewhere else. Yeah, because, like you said, 1495 01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:01.119 it doesn't you know, you could just call. 1496 01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:03.319 It a difference. It doesn't have to be that play. 1497 01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:05.319 You're right, And there wasn't there something in some of 1498 01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:07.079 the early scripts that Luke was going to go back 1499 01:10:07.119 --> 01:10:10.840 to Ben's house to try and discover something about building 1500 01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:14.079 a lightsaber, and you know, so you've got that, so 1501 01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:16.319 then when they remove that, it's like I was talking 1502 01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:18.399 about earlier, They're like, okay, so we're still on tattooing, 1503 01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:20.199 but we're going to do this now, So where's the 1504 01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:23.119 motivation to go there anymore? It doesn't make any sense. 1505 01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:25.720 That makes sense. When I was talking about the cave, 1506 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:28.399 I was thinking, oh, that kind of looks like Ben's house, 1507 01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.039 But they don't ever short from the other angle inside 1508 01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:32.000 the cave looking out. 1509 01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:35.079 It is a cave in that instance, because there's a 1510 01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:37.319 matte painting that was unused that had like a little 1511 01:10:37.319 --> 01:10:38.720 cut out for R two and three PO and you 1512 01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:41.560 could see the X wing and presumably the Y wing 1513 01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:45.239 the layer and two ear arrived in. Yeah, I think again, 1514 01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:47.760 it's like each time they sort of change their mind 1515 01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:49.560 on how a scene was going to work or who 1516 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.680 was going to be involved, they forgot the original intention 1517 01:10:51.840 --> 01:10:53.279 of why they were there in the first place, and 1518 01:10:53.319 --> 01:10:54.640 therefore it loses its meaning. 1519 01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:57.399 Well, Yeah, like in your film Dementary, you had this 1520 01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:00.680 whole thing about prune faced action figure characters that were 1521 01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:02.960 supposed to be on endoor, and I'm like, why weren't 1522 01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:05.399 they on endoor helping the fight and stuff like that? 1523 01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:06.920 That's kind of disappointing. 1524 01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:09.640 I never noticed those guys, Thank you, jam Neither did 1525 01:11:09.680 --> 01:11:10.399 I those guys. 1526 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:13.479 Yeah, you know, to watch Jamie's film and Dementary, it's 1527 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:17.039 fucking phenomenal. Instead of watching a return watching Return of 1528 01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:18.039 the Jedi, watched that. 1529 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:23.079 Returning to Jedi still on Vimeo. But I remember when 1530 01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:25.600 there was that sort of little resurgence of Star Wars, 1531 01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:28.920 the sort of the dark times. I remember about nineteen 1532 01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:32.079 ninety one going to Forbidden Planet here in London, and 1533 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:34.960 there was a fanzine there called the UK Star Wars 1534 01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.039 Fan Club, and it was a black and white fanzine. 1535 01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:39.479 I think I had a color cover, but it's all 1536 01:11:39.520 --> 01:11:41.720 black and white in the middle. And there was an 1537 01:11:41.800 --> 01:11:44.319 article in there, a feature in that each quarter or 1538 01:11:44.359 --> 01:11:47.439 whatever it was, and it said have you noticed I 1539 01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:50.000 think was the line, And I wrote in to say, oh, 1540 01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:52.479 I've just bought the wide screen versions of the film, 1541 01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:54.399 and for the first time I've seen FX seven, the 1542 01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:57.039 medical droid on the left hand side of the frame 1543 01:11:57.279 --> 01:11:59.720 in the Rebel meeting. And then wait a minute, there's 1544 01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:01.800 like the proof faced guys in the back and I'd 1545 01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:03.680 never seen them in the four by three before, and 1546 01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:06.039 all of that stuff, and when you bought those widescreen 1547 01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:10.119 editions and blew them up to horrible low resolution, there 1548 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:12.279 was so much more in the frame, you know that, 1549 01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:15.000 Like you see that big, weird a man of Man character, 1550 01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:17.319 like the yellow and green guy with the staff with 1551 01:12:17.439 --> 01:12:19.640 the skulls on it, and all of these amazing designs 1552 01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:21.760 that are sort of lurking in the background. Because those 1553 01:12:22.319 --> 01:12:25.439 early VHS's I had, they were so murky, like you 1554 01:12:25.479 --> 01:12:27.800 could barely see any detail in them. I remember watching 1555 01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:30.039 Alien on the VHS for the first time. I could 1556 01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:33.079 barely see a damn thing. But yeah, I remember that 1557 01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:34.760 was a big thing, the UK Stars Fang Club, and 1558 01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:36.399 then there was that build up in like, oh, George 1559 01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:37.920 is going to re release the movies and he's going 1560 01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:40.680 to make some changes, and then there's Stars Insider magazines 1561 01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:43.520 coming out and all of that, and then you know, 1562 01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:46.319 it just was a sort of arc of disappointment from 1563 01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:46.680 there on. 1564 01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:49.199 Really, let's go ahead and take a break in them. 1565 01:12:49.239 --> 01:12:51.279 We'll be back to talk about those dark times and 1566 01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:54.439 maybe talk about the unmasking of Darth Vader as well. 1567 01:12:54.479 --> 01:12:57.439 If we're talking about disappointments anyway, We'll be back in 1568 01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:00.640 a few minutes with an interview with producer Jim Bloom 1569 01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:02.680 right after these brief messages. 1570 01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:07.359 Classically is a film Journey to the East, a curated 1571 01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:11.159 streaming service offering the best of contemporary and classic cinema 1572 01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:15.359 from Eastern Europe and Asia. 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Visit Klassiki 1578 01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:41.319 dot online and sign up now to start your adventure 1579 01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:41.760 in film. 1580 01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:55.680 I wanted to ask you about Jedi, especially because your 1581 01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:58.439 title changed between Empire and Jedi, and I was curious 1582 01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:01.399 as far as how did your fonsibilities changed between the 1583 01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:02.039 two films. 1584 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:05.479 On the Empire Strikes Back, I was originally hired as 1585 01:14:05.479 --> 01:14:10.039 an assistant producer and then because of my responsibilities and 1586 01:14:10.279 --> 01:14:14.920 my work, Gary came to me with I'm sure George's 1587 01:14:15.319 --> 01:14:20.359 blessing and said, you've done such a good job, we 1588 01:14:20.640 --> 01:14:25.079 want to make you an associate producer and have you 1589 01:14:25.239 --> 01:14:28.479 share that title with Robert. Robert was one of the 1590 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:32.560 great men. Originally when we were hired, because Gary offered 1591 01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:35.680 me a job as an assistant producer, that was my title, 1592 01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:38.079 you know, which could mean a lot of different things. 1593 01:14:38.119 --> 01:14:41.000 But I knew quite a bit about movie making at 1594 01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:44.399 that particular point, and I had started with them in 1595 01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:48.479 nineteen seventy two on American Graffiti and had stayed in 1596 01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:52.319 touch with them over the years. Then you know, it 1597 01:14:52.439 --> 01:14:57.560 was like in November December seventy eight, early seventy eight, 1598 01:14:57.640 --> 01:14:59.840 Gary calt and said I'd like you to be my assistant, 1599 01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:03.239 and it was like WHOA. I had seen Star Wars 1600 01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:06.960 and I had loved it, and I remember, you know, if. 1601 01:15:06.439 --> 01:15:09.359 I need to talk quicker, just just give me a. 1602 01:15:11.920 --> 01:15:14.319 And I also tend to jump around to quite a 1603 01:15:14.359 --> 01:15:18.479 bit I had gone to In the spring of seventy seven, 1604 01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:23.159 I went to visit Gary in his office at Universal, 1605 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.720 and he because I had stayed in touch with him 1606 01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:28.399 over the years, and he was kind of like a 1607 01:15:28.479 --> 01:15:30.439 mentor to me, and I enjoyed talking to him, and 1608 01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:32.600 if I needed a piece of advice he would often 1609 01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:37.960 offer to me. And he took out this coffee table 1610 01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:41.600 book of still photos that had been camped of Star 1611 01:15:41.640 --> 01:15:44.159 Wars because it was a couple of weeks before the 1612 01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:47.399 release of the movie, and it just like blew me away, 1613 01:15:47.680 --> 01:15:50.279 completely blew me away. It was just like, oh my god, 1614 01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:53.640 look at this stuff. This is just fucking amazing. And 1615 01:15:53.760 --> 01:15:55.840 you know, I was just so taken with the look 1616 01:15:56.079 --> 01:15:58.760 of these, you know, mostly black and white, comped photos 1617 01:15:58.840 --> 01:16:01.439 that they put together in this coffee table book. And 1618 01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:03.199 then when the picture opened, I went to see it 1619 01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:05.600 the first weekend and I was so taken. I was 1620 01:16:06.039 --> 01:16:08.960 attempted to stay there and watch it again, but I 1621 01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:10.640 didn't want to get back in line. But I'm sure 1622 01:16:10.640 --> 01:16:12.359 I saw it again very soon after. But I went 1623 01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.760 to summer early early show at the Regency, which was 1624 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:17.960 the big theater at the time in San Francisco, you know, 1625 01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:21.520 big seventeen millimeter screen, blah blah blah, and I was 1626 01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:25.159 just like, you know, everybody else, well that was Star Wars. Yeah, 1627 01:16:25.279 --> 01:16:28.159 I was just like whoa. And then anyway, after Star 1628 01:16:28.199 --> 01:16:29.880 Wars came out and it did so well, I went 1629 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:33.119 to work in the summer of seventy seven. My first 1630 01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:36.279 job as a first assistant director was with Matthew Robbins 1631 01:16:36.359 --> 01:16:40.880 directing Corvette Summer, where I met with Corvette Summer, at 1632 01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:44.319 which point Mark got into a car accident and completely 1633 01:16:44.560 --> 01:16:48.159 blew his face apart. Unfortunately, a little bit before it 1634 01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:53.039 worked this great looking California surfer Kate and just destroyed 1635 01:16:53.079 --> 01:16:56.279 his face in this car accident, which is why in 1636 01:16:56.880 --> 01:17:00.680 Empire the movie opens with the wampa ripping it face apart, 1637 01:17:01.479 --> 01:17:03.760 because they needed a reason to say what happened to 1638 01:17:03.800 --> 01:17:05.680 Mark's face, and that was it. They covered him up 1639 01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:08.840 and the wamper rips his face apart, which is why 1640 01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:11.520 he looked so different. I was a very young first, 1641 01:17:11.600 --> 01:17:15.479 a d even by any standards. I was twenty four. 1642 01:17:16.239 --> 01:17:18.319 I hadn't turned twenty five yet, and it was pretty 1643 01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:21.439 young to be an assistant director at that time. And 1644 01:17:21.520 --> 01:17:24.600 then after Corvette Summer, Phil Kaufman asked me to work 1645 01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:27.720 on The Body Snatchers, which I did, which was great. 1646 01:17:28.159 --> 01:17:31.680 It still holds up today as a great movie, even 1647 01:17:32.079 --> 01:17:35.000 more so today than before because, you know, one of 1648 01:17:35.039 --> 01:17:39.600 the great lines from the movie, Donald Sutherland says to 1649 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:44.880 forgetting Brooks name her last name, at the moment she 1650 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:47.600 sort of becomes his love interest in the movie, you know, 1651 01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:49.760 with like what's happened to my husband. You know, he's 1652 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:52.159 not the same anymore. And Donald says, well, maybe he's 1653 01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:55.279 become a Republican, you know, because he's become a pod 1654 01:17:55.399 --> 01:17:59.640 person and he's just like so weird. Yeah, and more 1655 01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:01.680 true today than it's ever been before. And it was 1656 01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:04.800 true in the nineteen seventies, you know, but even more 1657 01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:09.319 so now than it was then, unfortunately, and much to 1658 01:18:09.560 --> 01:18:12.840 my dismay and depression. And then after that Gary call 1659 01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:16.039 and he said, I'd like you to come work for 1660 01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:18.520 me on Empire. Oh, you know, what do you want 1661 01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:21.479 me to do? I want you to be my assistant producer. 1662 01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:22.319 I want you to help me. 1663 01:18:22.359 --> 01:18:24.640 I want you come to London. I want you to 1664 01:18:25.439 --> 01:18:29.039 go on location and help me make this movie because 1665 01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:32.199 it's going to be bigger and you'd like you were around. 1666 01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:33.680 And it was like whoa. 1667 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:36.960 And I remember saying to him, you know, I said, Gary, 1668 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:38.640 you know I always thought at this point in my career, 1669 01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:40.600 I might sort of turn my attention to becoming a 1670 01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.640 director because I'd worked with so many great directors. I mean, 1671 01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:48.560 it was just like mind boggling that in my short 1672 01:18:48.640 --> 01:18:51.520 career I had gotten to work with George and Francis 1673 01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:54.479 Coppola and Sam and Bob Vautman and Hal Ashby and 1674 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:57.960 Phil Kaufman and Matthew and I'm sure I'm going to 1675 01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:01.600 forget some people, Steven Spielberg, all these great directors, and 1676 01:19:01.800 --> 01:19:04.199 I had learned so much from working with all of them. 1677 01:19:05.039 --> 01:19:08.199 Yet after working with Phil, I thought, I think I 1678 01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:11.560 could do this. I think I've needed to plus forty 1679 01:19:11.600 --> 01:19:14.000 six episodes on the Streets of San Francisco TV show 1680 01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:17.760 working with Carl Malden and Michael Douglass and what treat 1681 01:19:17.840 --> 01:19:21.319 that was. And Gary said, Jim, He said, I want 1682 01:19:21.359 --> 01:19:25.039 to tell you that there isn't anything that you're not 1683 01:19:25.359 --> 01:19:29.239 going to learn on this show working with me that 1684 01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:30.920 won't make you a better director. 1685 01:19:31.720 --> 01:19:32.520 And he was right. 1686 01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:36.800 There wasn't anything. You know, I learned so much working 1687 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.319 on those movies, and I've learned a lot about producing 1688 01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:42.640 movies as well, and an incredible amount of visual effects 1689 01:19:42.640 --> 01:19:46.840 because my first part of working on Jedi was to 1690 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:53.119 move ILM from Dan Eyes up to Santa Fell and 1691 01:19:53.239 --> 01:19:56.039 to hire all the guys that I brought up who 1692 01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:59.279 had worked on Star Wars up to Santa Fell. You 1693 01:19:59.319 --> 01:20:02.119 know those guy guys when you think of the core 1694 01:20:02.279 --> 01:20:05.359 guys and what they've all gone on to do. Jennis 1695 01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:11.920 muirn Joe Johnston, Richard Edlin, Phil Tippett, Ken Ralston, Bruce Nicholson, 1696 01:20:12.880 --> 01:20:18.359 Laurene Peterson and Steve Galli, Peter Kuran, all the guys 1697 01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:21.840 who went on to lead all of the key departments 1698 01:20:21.880 --> 01:20:26.800 at ILM. And so when I started my job on Empire, 1699 01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:30.439 working at the Parkway House, which is George's office, and 1700 01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:34.279 you know, I was in some little back room, the kitchen, 1701 01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:37.359 you know, it was where my office was, and you know, 1702 01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:40.600 working with Why used a joke I called the Parkway Princesses, 1703 01:20:40.680 --> 01:20:44.920 which were Jane Bay and Lucy Uchiever Golson and Chrissy England, 1704 01:20:44.960 --> 01:20:47.600 you know, and previously went on to run ILM and 1705 01:20:48.479 --> 01:20:51.239 become a great production person and all these other people. 1706 01:20:51.880 --> 01:20:54.920 And then they had found the warehouse in Santra Fell 1707 01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:57.439 where ILM was going to be. And then we went 1708 01:20:57.479 --> 01:20:59.920 to work on building ILM into a visual effects facil 1709 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:03.760 you know, with being sort of multi purpose, which was 1710 01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:07.239 to be a visual effects facility, but when we weren't 1711 01:21:07.239 --> 01:21:09.840 making Star Wars movie, it would become a visual effects 1712 01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:13.439 facility for other movies. And the first two other movies 1713 01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:17.479 that we did at that time were Dragon Slayer and 1714 01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:19.720 then Raiders of the Loss, you know, the next two 1715 01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:22.319 movies that came through ILM, and then you know, we 1716 01:21:22.439 --> 01:21:25.399 got ready to do Jedi. So to serve it explaining 1717 01:21:25.399 --> 01:21:29.359 the difference between the two things was that I was 1718 01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:31.600 the general manager at ILM as well as being the 1719 01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:34.239 associate producer on the movie. So I had two hats 1720 01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:39.760 to wear, and Gary wanted me to go to run 1721 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:42.039 the second unit in Norway. You know, it was like 1722 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:47.199 his producer, second unit producer in Norway. And so I 1723 01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:51.640 moved to London in November of seventy eight and then 1724 01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:58.039 stayed there November December January February, scouted Norway with everybody, 1725 01:21:58.920 --> 01:22:01.279 and then went back with the unit in early February 1726 01:22:01.399 --> 01:22:04.960 when we began principal photography, and principal photography was supposed 1727 01:22:04.960 --> 01:22:06.560 to be five days and turned it to seven or 1728 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:09.640 eight blah blah blah. And then I stayed with the 1729 01:22:09.680 --> 01:22:11.359 second unit, which was supposed to be two or three 1730 01:22:11.359 --> 01:22:15.760 weeks and became six or seven. Because as the joke is, 1731 01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.680 all the weather, it's never this bat until the movie 1732 01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:22.119 company shows up, and that's exactly what happened. There were 1733 01:22:22.239 --> 01:22:24.640 days on end when just like there were with the 1734 01:22:24.680 --> 01:22:27.079 first unit, that it was a complete white out and 1735 01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:29.760 we couldn't get up on the glacier to shoot. It 1736 01:22:29.920 --> 01:22:32.079 just wasn't safe to go up there. 1737 01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:33.720 You could just you couldn't see. 1738 01:22:33.960 --> 01:22:37.159 And we were we were in these snowcats, and we 1739 01:22:37.279 --> 01:22:38.359 were following. 1740 01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:40.000 The way the cross country skiers did. 1741 01:22:40.119 --> 01:22:42.800 The Norwegians just go out and go, but they tie 1742 01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:46.840 themselves and they go from poll to get up to 1743 01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:48.600 the glacier, to get up the mountain or go where 1744 01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:50.079 they were doing, because there are a lot of dangerous 1745 01:22:50.119 --> 01:22:53.279 grasses are But we couldn't move a unit up there 1746 01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:57.239 and work. And I mean we always used to joke that, 1747 01:22:57.439 --> 01:22:59.520 you know, they would serve pasta for lunch and from 1748 01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:01.399 the time got from the plate to your mouth, it 1749 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:03.840 was frozen, you know, or you take a pee in 1750 01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:06.119 the time that the pe hit the snow, it was frozen. 1751 01:23:06.880 --> 01:23:10.239 You know, it was really could But then you know, 1752 01:23:10.359 --> 01:23:13.399 it was you know, February into March, and later in March. 1753 01:23:13.439 --> 01:23:16.079 Eventually it got a little bit better, and then we 1754 01:23:16.159 --> 01:23:18.520 got our work done and you know, some of the 1755 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:21.479 most important work, which is why Gary wanted me there 1756 01:23:21.640 --> 01:23:24.479 was because I understood the visual effects of the movie, 1757 01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:28.880 and I understood how critical when you put a shot together. 1758 01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:33.399 It's not just the unknown Rebel troopers running away from 1759 01:23:33.479 --> 01:23:36.399 the explosions planted in the snow, but it's being able 1760 01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:40.680 to see the snow Walkers coming up from behind them 1761 01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:44.279 and the other guys people. You know, they hadn't made 1762 01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:46.560 a lot of effects movies before then. It was still 1763 01:23:46.600 --> 01:23:50.199 a very young business back in the late seventies and 1764 01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:52.840 eighties as far as what they had done on Star 1765 01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:55.000 Wars and what we were trying to do on Empire. 1766 01:23:55.880 --> 01:23:58.000 And so I used to argue with Peter McDonald, who 1767 01:23:58.079 --> 01:24:00.199 was the second unit director, and then he would set 1768 01:24:00.279 --> 01:24:01.680 up a shot and I'd look through the lens and 1769 01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:04.760 I'd go, Peter, we got to frame up. I said, 1770 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:06.439 what do I need to frame up for? I said, 1771 01:24:06.439 --> 01:24:08.920 because the snow Walkers are back there, and the snow 1772 01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:12.800 Walkers are firing laser cannons into the snow that are 1773 01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:16.399 creating the explosions in the foreground, in the mid ground 1774 01:24:16.479 --> 01:24:20.279 that all of these troops are running away from. Okay, 1775 01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:22.880 he would do that, and then you've got this beautiful 1776 01:24:23.159 --> 01:24:27.039 battle that we created up there. And then the other 1777 01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:30.680 thing that I also knew that was critically important were 1778 01:24:30.960 --> 01:24:36.640 all of the snow Speeder helicopter background plates that we 1779 01:24:36.840 --> 01:24:41.279 shot with a sixty five millimeter camera mounted on a 1780 01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:46.800 gyroscopic Westcam rig for you know, understanding all that stuff 1781 01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:51.199 and appreciating the movie and knowing all of the storyboards 1782 01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:54.680 by heart and all of the great, you know, conceptual 1783 01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:57.560 work that Ralph McCrory did, who I became very friendly with, 1784 01:24:57.920 --> 01:25:00.600 you know, during those days. You know, I just had 1785 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:02.920 a great appreciation for how beautiful the movie could be 1786 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:05.039 because I knew that Ralph did it on Star Wars, 1787 01:25:05.159 --> 01:25:07.600 and I knew what we can do it again. And 1788 01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:11.800 you know, I also try to instill on everybody this 1789 01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:12.720 spirit core. 1790 01:25:13.720 --> 01:25:15.760 We're making a sequel, but it's going to be better. 1791 01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:18.720 It's not going to be shitty, because most sequels were 1792 01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:23.039 crappy and this was shitty. So when Empire was over, 1793 01:25:24.119 --> 01:25:30.560 George came to me with Howard Kazangian, and first it 1794 01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:34.800 was Charlie Weber, but anyway, they said, we want you 1795 01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:38.039 to be a co producer on Jedi, you know, and 1796 01:25:38.079 --> 01:25:39.720 there be two of you, you and Robert be in 1797 01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:42.279 the UK and you'll be over here. Because the other 1798 01:25:42.720 --> 01:25:45.560 mandate for Jedi different than Empires that we were going 1799 01:25:45.640 --> 01:25:47.880 to shoot all the location work in the United States 1800 01:25:48.479 --> 01:25:51.079 because it was getting too dangerous to go to Tunisia. 1801 01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:54.439 You had your job is stuff there, and you know, 1802 01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:56.800 we need you to find a desert. And George Joyce 1803 01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:59.399 had a vision to do a Redwood planet, you know, 1804 01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:03.119 Redwood planet, which is what we did. And so you know, 1805 01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:05.439 we had to go out and find those locations in 1806 01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:08.039 the US and you know, hire the cruise and blah 1807 01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:11.319 blah blah. The other thing that was advantageous is that 1808 01:26:11.439 --> 01:26:13.880 we were a San Francisco based company, not an LA 1809 01:26:13.960 --> 01:26:15.760 based company, and I knew who all the good crew 1810 01:26:15.800 --> 01:26:18.880 guys were in San Francisco, which there was one, you know, 1811 01:26:18.960 --> 01:26:21.960 which was which was a challenge because they're not as 1812 01:26:22.159 --> 01:26:24.439 talented as the LA guys were. Because at that point 1813 01:26:24.479 --> 01:26:26.920 I had worked with San Francisco Cruise and done a 1814 01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:29.560 lot of work with LA Cruise, you know on Batford 1815 01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:32.520 Glory and Coming Home and Close Encounters and Hack and 1816 01:26:32.560 --> 01:26:33.319 Pause movie. 1817 01:26:33.159 --> 01:26:33.920 The Killer or Leading. 1818 01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:36.359 You know, I knew what it was like to do 1819 01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:39.000 a studio movie, to do independent movies out of LA 1820 01:26:40.079 --> 01:26:42.920 how talented. You know, the movie business was in Los Angeles, 1821 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:45.960 it wasn't in San Francisco, and so but I had 1822 01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:48.319 to kind of covel a group together that had the 1823 01:26:48.439 --> 01:26:53.479 chops to do a movie like Jedi. So the responsibilities changed. 1824 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:56.159 And the other thing that changed was that we made 1825 01:26:56.199 --> 01:27:00.279 Empire and I went to London November to go was 1826 01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:02.439 not for me to be the general manager of ILM, 1827 01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:06.239 but to be system producer on the picture and to 1828 01:27:06.359 --> 01:27:09.079 be overseeing ILM a little bit, but to hire a 1829 01:27:09.199 --> 01:27:12.079 general manager. And I hired a guy who I had 1830 01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:14.000 worked in the live action because I felt that he 1831 01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:20.239 had the production responsibility that wasn't emblematic at that point 1832 01:27:20.439 --> 01:27:23.039 in the visual effects business in the US, because you know, 1833 01:27:23.399 --> 01:27:25.000 who are you going to hire. They either worked on 1834 01:27:25.079 --> 01:27:27.760 Close Encounters here, worked on Star Wars. You had either 1835 01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:30.079 worked for Doug Trumbull, or you work for you know, 1836 01:27:30.159 --> 01:27:33.119 the First John Company. And so I said, gee, this 1837 01:27:33.319 --> 01:27:34.600 makes a lot of sense to me to bring some 1838 01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:37.760 production guys in here, because they know about making movies. 1839 01:27:37.800 --> 01:27:38.800 And it's not that much different. 1840 01:27:38.920 --> 01:27:43.880 You know, you got different groups, but everybody's contributing the movie, 1841 01:27:43.920 --> 01:27:45.720 and the scheduling is a little bit different, and so 1842 01:27:46.119 --> 01:27:49.199 I brought that skill set with me to Empire. 1843 01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:50.159 So I hired a guy who I. 1844 01:27:50.159 --> 01:27:52.159 Had worked with on the Streets of San Francisco TV show, 1845 01:27:52.159 --> 01:27:53.600 who lived up there, who knew a lot of the 1846 01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:56.399 local guys, and I also hired him because I knew 1847 01:27:56.399 --> 01:27:59.199 he could make a deal with the local union rep too, 1848 01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:02.960 because we kind of had to do that in order 1849 01:28:03.000 --> 01:28:04.920 to bring the guys out of LA. And the guy 1850 01:28:04.960 --> 01:28:08.199 in San Francisco was a vice president in the IA 1851 01:28:08.600 --> 01:28:15.039 nationally and he had the cajone ace in the USIA 1852 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:17.399 to tell the guys in LA, no, we're doing it 1853 01:28:17.479 --> 01:28:19.039 this way, and I'm going to do it that way, 1854 01:28:19.680 --> 01:28:21.640 and he would listen to him because he was on 1855 01:28:21.760 --> 01:28:25.600 that executive board. So it worked out that way. There 1856 01:28:25.640 --> 01:28:27.920 were other financial reasons why we didn't want to do 1857 01:28:27.960 --> 01:28:30.720 it with the LA group. We wanted to do it 1858 01:28:30.760 --> 01:28:34.760 as a San Francisco group, and we got special dispensations 1859 01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:38.600 from the IA in LA when we do the live 1860 01:28:38.640 --> 01:28:45.359 action photography to hire camera guys and construction coordinators and 1861 01:28:45.520 --> 01:28:47.560 special effects guys to. 1862 01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:50.199 Do the work that had to be done. 1863 01:28:50.359 --> 01:28:51.239 And when it came to like. 1864 01:28:51.279 --> 01:28:54.279 Grip and electric and stuff, we mostly worked with local 1865 01:28:54.359 --> 01:28:58.199 guys out of San Francisco under their contract, and the 1866 01:28:58.399 --> 01:28:59.920 LA guys would come up and work under the Sam 1867 01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:04.199 Francisco contract and it got worked out. So you know, 1868 01:29:04.399 --> 01:29:06.840 I did a lot of that stuff. And then on 1869 01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:10.680 Jedi after production was over, the guy who I hired 1870 01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:13.199 from streets of San Francisco was like, I can't deal 1871 01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:16.079 with these visual effects guys. They're just it's just too 1872 01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:18.880 much for me. With their official effects guys are different 1873 01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:21.840 than live action guys. You know, live action, Oh, we're 1874 01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:23.119 going to go in and get it done and blah 1875 01:29:23.159 --> 01:29:25.399 blah blah, and you're moving all the time and it's quick, 1876 01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:29.119 and the visual effects guys are they're a pretty nerdy group. 1877 01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:32.600 I mean, if you talk to these guys, I say 1878 01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:36.000 it affectionately because I really love all these guys because 1879 01:29:36.039 --> 01:29:38.119 I knew them so well. We were all like a family. 1880 01:29:38.640 --> 01:29:40.479 But it's a different group because they had a very 1881 01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:44.359 different vision of filmmaking. You know, live action has put 1882 01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:46.920 the camera down, get the actors, get the shot, you know, 1883 01:29:46.960 --> 01:29:49.159 blah blah blah, and visual effects is like I got 1884 01:29:49.279 --> 01:29:51.199 to build twenty different layers on how I'm going to 1885 01:29:51.239 --> 01:29:54.119 put a shot together until it's finally done, and back 1886 01:29:54.159 --> 01:29:56.479 then everything was in the optical printer, you know, it 1887 01:29:56.600 --> 01:29:59.520 wasn't digital. He kind of missed being on the set. 1888 01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:04.159 And after I came back from London, what happened was 1889 01:30:04.199 --> 01:30:07.119 then we finished the Norwegian stuff and I was supposed 1890 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:08.880 to stay in London for the rest of the shoot, 1891 01:30:09.880 --> 01:30:12.600 but Gary came to me and said, things are not 1892 01:30:12.720 --> 01:30:14.319 going well in Santra Fella. I want you to go 1893 01:30:14.399 --> 01:30:18.600 home and supervise what's happening there. And I got back 1894 01:30:18.640 --> 01:30:19.760 there as soon as I was there. 1895 01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:22.319 Over a few weeks. Dick said, you're here. 1896 01:30:22.920 --> 01:30:23.239 Thank you. 1897 01:30:23.640 --> 01:30:24.960 It's been fun, but I'm out of here. 1898 01:30:25.279 --> 01:30:25.920 You don't need me. 1899 01:30:26.119 --> 01:30:28.319 You do it, you know it, you understand it better 1900 01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:28.640 than I do. 1901 01:30:28.840 --> 01:30:32.760 I don't enjoy it. I'm taking off. So he left 1902 01:30:33.479 --> 01:30:36.520 and then I took over at ILEM and we put 1903 01:30:36.560 --> 01:30:39.439 the picture out, and back then it was a very difficult, 1904 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:42.840 complicated movie to do because we're doing stuff that nobody 1905 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:47.159 had done before. So those are different responsibilities. And when 1906 01:30:47.439 --> 01:30:50.000 Empire was over, I didn't want to spend my life 1907 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:53.079 running a visual effects facility. I wanted to be a 1908 01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:56.319 film producer. I didn't want to be a visual effects general. Manager, 1909 01:30:57.119 --> 01:30:59.960 and George wanted me to stay on and run the place. 1910 01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:01.960 I saw gona like to find somebody to take my place, 1911 01:31:02.560 --> 01:31:04.640 because I'd like to go back and make movies again. 1912 01:31:04.680 --> 01:31:08.840 I liked making movies from here the script, let's go 1913 01:31:08.960 --> 01:31:11.439 make it all the way into the theater. But I 1914 01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:14.359 like working with directors. And he said okay. And then 1915 01:31:14.359 --> 01:31:16.199 I brought Tom Smith in, who I had worked with 1916 01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:20.039 right after American Graffiti. He was a documentarian, but he's 1917 01:31:20.319 --> 01:31:23.279 kind of a nerdy guy. I mean, I had that nightly, 1918 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:27.880 a very technical filmmaker, you know, a cameraman editor, knew 1919 01:31:27.880 --> 01:31:30.600 a lot about filmmaking. Tom came in and it was 1920 01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:33.560 a good opportunity for Tom. Tom fell right in and 1921 01:31:33.640 --> 01:31:36.720 he became the general manager for many years until he left, 1922 01:31:36.920 --> 01:31:40.399 and then he became a producer at one point, you know, 1923 01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:43.159 produced visual effects and produced features and stuff like that. 1924 01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.479 I still talked to Tom, you know, he's still a friend. 1925 01:31:47.279 --> 01:31:51.119 And so then Tom came in, and then after photography 1926 01:31:51.279 --> 01:31:54.159 was over, Jedi was set up in such a way 1927 01:31:55.039 --> 01:31:58.840 that hal Berwood and Matthew Robbins, who I'd mentioned before, 1928 01:31:59.720 --> 01:32:02.800 who I had met on close encounters, when they came 1929 01:32:02.880 --> 01:32:05.199 into do additional script writing and also worked as like 1930 01:32:05.279 --> 01:32:07.800 the first two characters to walk off the mother ship 1931 01:32:08.319 --> 01:32:10.199 when it landed in the box down in because they 1932 01:32:10.239 --> 01:32:12.359 were at the pilots from the nineteen forties who got 1933 01:32:13.079 --> 01:32:15.640 carried away by the aliens. They were going to go 1934 01:32:16.039 --> 01:32:19.239 make a movie called The Grid, which is this great 1935 01:32:20.199 --> 01:32:23.920 science fiction time travel movie that I often think that 1936 01:32:24.119 --> 01:32:27.279 Terminator stole from at some point because it's all about 1937 01:32:27.319 --> 01:32:30.239 coming from the future back to the present to fix 1938 01:32:30.359 --> 01:32:35.479 something that will affect the future. Great we never made it, unfortunately, 1939 01:32:35.840 --> 01:32:39.279 you know, it's one of those I put a design 1940 01:32:39.399 --> 01:32:42.319 team together for Matthew al was going to be the 1941 01:32:42.399 --> 01:32:44.520 executive producer because he was going to off and direct. 1942 01:32:44.560 --> 01:32:46.560 So I was going to produce the picture, and we 1943 01:32:46.680 --> 01:32:49.279 were set up at the Lab Company, and we needed 1944 01:32:49.319 --> 01:32:51.079 a lot of pre production so to figure out what 1945 01:32:51.199 --> 01:32:52.439 the movie was going to look like and what it 1946 01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:54.560 was going to cost. This, you know, that was part 1947 01:32:54.600 --> 01:32:58.880 of this way of making movies then if you were 1948 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:01.880 doing stuff that but he could quite visualize, and I 1949 01:33:02.039 --> 01:33:04.520 hired Sid Meade. You know, Sid used to be this 1950 01:33:04.640 --> 01:33:08.600 great designer at a wonderful great designer, industrial designer, and 1951 01:33:08.720 --> 01:33:12.479 Ralph McCrory and a guy named Peter Lloyd out of Colorado. 1952 01:33:12.680 --> 01:33:14.960 We have this great art department and this guy's turned 1953 01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:19.359 out all this wonderful conceptual stuff for this time travel movie. 1954 01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:22.720 When we were like designing the future and designing the President, 1955 01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:26.560 and I was in touch with a well known professor 1956 01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:30.720 of linguistics from UC Berkeley named George Lakeoff, who is 1957 01:33:30.760 --> 01:33:33.880 going to help us create a language of the future 1958 01:33:34.520 --> 01:33:36.239 five hundred years from now. And we were going to 1959 01:33:36.319 --> 01:33:39.279 do some of the future stuff with subtitles, you know, 1960 01:33:39.399 --> 01:33:42.960 but people would be speaking whatever English was going to be. Yeah, 1961 01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:45.359 it was really cool. It was a great idea. Anyway, 1962 01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:48.760 the right stuff came out and it was a great movie, 1963 01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:52.119 but it tanked. And when it tanked, the lad Company 1964 01:33:52.399 --> 01:33:54.560 Warner Brothers said no, we're not going to make the 1965 01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:56.520 grit and tell them to go find a partner. We'll 1966 01:33:56.560 --> 01:33:59.399 give you fifty percent of the budget. Anyway, we didn't 1967 01:33:59.399 --> 01:34:01.720 make the movie. There were things that I learned that 1968 01:34:02.600 --> 01:34:04.560 I found out later when I went to work at 1969 01:34:04.720 --> 01:34:07.439 studio about the way movies are made that I didn't 1970 01:34:07.520 --> 01:34:09.039 know then, And it's like, I wish I would have 1971 01:34:09.119 --> 01:34:11.720 known then what I know now. You know, which is 1972 01:34:11.840 --> 01:34:15.399 when I'm forgetting the guy's name at Universal, you know, 1973 01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:17.000 cent to me, I'll make it for sixteen million, but 1974 01:34:17.039 --> 01:34:18.520 I wouldn't do it a penny more. And I said, 1975 01:34:18.520 --> 01:34:20.920 you know, I really need eighteen to do it. He said, 1976 01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:23.640 I'm a only going to give you sixteen. That company 1977 01:34:23.640 --> 01:34:25.560 will put up eight. All put up eight, and then 1978 01:34:25.600 --> 01:34:28.119 you go make your movie. And I should have said, 1979 01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:31.960 let's go. You know, I should have just said let's 1980 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:35.159 do it, because I should have learned the lesson. But 1981 01:34:35.399 --> 01:34:39.119 Steven taught me on close encounters, which was very funny, 1982 01:34:39.199 --> 01:34:41.800 which was we were getting close to going at photography 1983 01:34:42.319 --> 01:34:44.880 and the guys at Columbia said to Steven, lose two 1984 01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:46.800 days out of the schedule. You got to cut back 1985 01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:49.119 by two days. And it's like, I don't know where 1986 01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:49.319 are we. 1987 01:34:49.279 --> 01:34:50.079 Going to find two days. 1988 01:34:50.119 --> 01:34:51.920 And I went into a meeting with Steven's office with 1989 01:34:52.000 --> 01:34:54.560 the first assistant director, Truck Myers is a great ad 1990 01:34:55.359 --> 01:34:57.880 and I was his second. And we gave Stephen the 1991 01:34:57.920 --> 01:34:59.960 board and we said, Steven, we don't know where to 1992 01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:03.199 find two days. Here's the board. And Steven said, give 1993 01:35:03.239 --> 01:35:05.920 me the board. And we handed the board to Steven 1994 01:35:06.640 --> 01:35:09.359 and he took the board. He went and he shook it. 1995 01:35:10.039 --> 01:35:13.319 Two little day strips, which is how you separated the 1996 01:35:13.399 --> 01:35:16.119 days on a production board, fell out, and he picked 1997 01:35:16.199 --> 01:35:17.920 him up and he handed him to chucking me and 1998 01:35:17.960 --> 01:35:19.680 he said, here, those are your two days. 1999 01:35:20.319 --> 01:35:20.640 Let's go. 2000 01:35:21.640 --> 01:35:25.359 He knew that once they got into it and they 2001 01:35:25.399 --> 01:35:27.760 were making the movie, they're not going to stop him. 2002 01:35:28.119 --> 01:35:28.960 There's no way then. 2003 01:35:29.079 --> 01:35:30.840 You know. The thing that I learned when I went 2004 01:35:30.880 --> 01:35:34.560 to work at Sony as a creative and production executive 2005 01:35:34.840 --> 01:35:37.920 was the filmmakers tell you eighteen, and the executives tell 2006 01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:41.960 the corporation twenty, you know, and everybody's got a buffer 2007 01:35:42.039 --> 01:35:44.560 built into this thing that you're doing so that they 2008 01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:47.880 all look good. Well, it's just a that's a fucking game. 2009 01:35:48.319 --> 01:35:51.399 The Grid would have been a really great movie, particularly 2010 01:35:51.439 --> 01:35:53.880 because of the time. I love time travel and science 2011 01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:56.960 fiction type stuff, and one of my favorite movies is 2012 01:35:57.359 --> 01:36:01.680 Chris Mark Versus Laste, great movie. I remember producer named 2013 01:36:01.720 --> 01:36:03.479 Tom Luddy who passed away a couple of years ago, 2014 01:36:04.239 --> 01:36:08.399 who was one of the first director curators of the 2015 01:36:08.439 --> 01:36:09.640 Pacific Film Mark. 2016 01:36:09.720 --> 01:36:11.720 I can Berkley and when. 2017 01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:14.039 I came out to cal and went to school, I 2018 01:36:14.119 --> 01:36:15.600 used to go to the film markive all the time 2019 01:36:15.640 --> 01:36:18.560 and watch movies and hang out in the projection booth 2020 01:36:19.319 --> 01:36:22.720 with the projectionist and watch movies, or go down and 2021 01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:24.880 see movies and our remember Us where I first saw 2022 01:36:25.920 --> 01:36:29.479 Loge Italian. That just blew me away. It's like, it's 2023 01:36:29.640 --> 01:36:32.399 a great movie. I just love the story. I just 2024 01:36:32.520 --> 01:36:34.720 love the love story. You know, a guy who dreams, 2025 01:36:35.239 --> 01:36:37.800 and he keeps dreaming. You know that he's on the 2026 01:36:37.920 --> 01:36:40.640 jetty and he's witnessing something and he's not sure what 2027 01:36:40.760 --> 01:36:42.439 it is, and he falls in love with this woman 2028 01:36:42.479 --> 01:36:43.279 and who's this woman? 2029 01:36:43.439 --> 01:36:44.680 And then they grab him. 2030 01:36:44.640 --> 01:36:49.039 Because he's got this intense dream quality about him and 2031 01:36:49.119 --> 01:36:52.319 they need somebody who's a dreamer that they can send 2032 01:36:52.359 --> 01:36:55.840 to the past or to go figure out what's wrong. Anyway, 2033 01:36:55.880 --> 01:36:58.439 I just thought it was a great idea. There were 2034 01:36:58.600 --> 01:37:01.600 like the qualities about that that Halm Matthew borrowed to 2035 01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:03.479 do the Grid. It was a love story and there's 2036 01:37:03.520 --> 01:37:05.600 a woman in the present and a woman in the future, 2037 01:37:05.720 --> 01:37:09.159 and you know they're trying to solve a problem. All 2038 01:37:09.239 --> 01:37:11.000 the stuff just looked great. You know, the stuff that 2039 01:37:11.159 --> 01:37:13.479 Ralph came up with, Sid came up with. It was 2040 01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:15.640 just like the first time I saw the Star Wars 2041 01:37:16.159 --> 01:37:17.000 design stuff, it. 2042 01:37:17.079 --> 01:37:21.279 Was like WHOA One difference as well between the two 2043 01:37:21.359 --> 01:37:23.520 films was Gary Kurtz. He mentioned that he was kind 2044 01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:26.960 of a mentor to you. How was that not having 2045 01:37:27.039 --> 01:37:28.399 him on the production of Jedi? 2046 01:37:29.359 --> 01:37:29.960 It was different. 2047 01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:32.720 Gary and George had a falling out, you know. I 2048 01:37:32.760 --> 01:37:37.640 think it's well documented that Empire went millions of dollars 2049 01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:42.560 over budget because of lots of different reasons. Georgie decided 2050 01:37:42.600 --> 01:37:46.479 he didn't want Gary to be the producer on Jedi, 2051 01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:51.279 so we hired Howard. And then Howard came in and 2052 01:37:52.399 --> 01:37:55.680 it was fine. It was different, you know, very different guys, 2053 01:37:55.720 --> 01:38:00.720 different producers, different backgrounds, you know, different sensibilities, you know, 2054 01:38:00.920 --> 01:38:02.840 all those things. But from my point of view, it 2055 01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:05.239 was fine. You know, we were working with Kirshner, was 2056 01:38:05.279 --> 01:38:08.359 the best of the Star Wars directors Empires. I think 2057 01:38:08.359 --> 01:38:11.680 Empire's best movie, you know, and I love Star Wars 2058 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.680 as well. And then you know, I think Jedi was 2059 01:38:14.680 --> 01:38:17.199 a different movie than the first two for lots of 2060 01:38:17.279 --> 01:38:20.960 different reasons, different story thematically, where the company was at 2061 01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:24.319 that point in time, what the mandates were, all of 2062 01:38:24.359 --> 01:38:27.560 those different things. What was happening in Georgie's life, both 2063 01:38:27.600 --> 01:38:31.199 professionally and personally, and et cetera, et cetera. You know, 2064 01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:34.800 Curse is a real director. The performances that the actors 2065 01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:39.439 give are by far the best in Empire. I think, 2066 01:38:40.239 --> 01:38:42.880 you know, these some great stuff, you know, I all 2067 01:38:42.960 --> 01:38:46.840 these joke that Princess Leah's you know, whine in the 2068 01:38:47.079 --> 01:38:49.439 snow cave. I'd rather kiss a wookie, And Hans says, 2069 01:38:49.439 --> 01:38:52.439 I can arrange that, you know, just little things like that, 2070 01:38:53.000 --> 01:38:55.920 you know, or I love you know, I forgin, I 2071 01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:59.000 love you, I know Han soul goes, I know, you know, 2072 01:38:59.079 --> 01:39:01.319 there's just stuff between the characters that was. You know, 2073 01:39:02.680 --> 01:39:05.399 George is a great director, but I think Chris is 2074 01:39:05.880 --> 01:39:09.000 really an actor's director. You have that sensibility. I love 2075 01:39:09.079 --> 01:39:10.640 Kursh She's a great guy. I got to know him 2076 01:39:10.680 --> 01:39:13.000 really well. He's a very funny guy. 2077 01:39:13.640 --> 01:39:15.760 Did you interact with Richard Markuan that much? 2078 01:39:16.560 --> 01:39:16.720 Well? 2079 01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:19.840 I did, yes, And I think it was a tough 2080 01:39:20.039 --> 01:39:24.319 show for Richard because we sort of took a director 2081 01:39:25.119 --> 01:39:29.319 with not the experience that like a Kersh had and 2082 01:39:30.399 --> 01:39:34.960 put him into George's world. So he always would look 2083 01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:36.640 to George, say what do you think, what do you think? 2084 01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:39.840 And so that was part of you know, I don't 2085 01:39:39.840 --> 01:39:44.399 think he quite understand visual effects the way that George 2086 01:39:44.479 --> 01:39:47.239 did at all. So that was also a challenge to 2087 01:39:47.279 --> 01:39:50.119 come on board for all of that. And George was 2088 01:39:50.199 --> 01:39:53.560 around quite a bit during the shooting with Richard, depending 2089 01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:56.479 on what was going on, because I think he sort 2090 01:39:56.520 --> 01:39:59.479 of needed that help and support. You know, most of 2091 01:39:59.479 --> 01:40:01.600 the time work was happening because it's you know, you're 2092 01:40:01.640 --> 01:40:03.159 in like, you know, how you want to come work 2093 01:40:03.199 --> 01:40:06.359 playing George's playground, you know, I mean that's kind of 2094 01:40:06.399 --> 01:40:10.479 what you're doing. From Star Wars to Empire was a 2095 01:40:10.520 --> 01:40:13.479 little bit different, but from Empire to Jedi it was 2096 01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:16.840 a lot different on top of that, because it's really 2097 01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:21.000 it's George's world. It's George's movie in a sense. 2098 01:40:21.159 --> 01:40:22.880 And but yeah, I did. 2099 01:40:22.960 --> 01:40:25.800 I liked Richard, but I think it was a tough assignment, 2100 01:40:26.520 --> 01:40:28.359 but certainly one that he was happy. 2101 01:40:28.199 --> 01:40:28.760 To take on it. 2102 01:40:28.840 --> 01:40:30.800 Who wouldn't be happy to take on And you want 2103 01:40:30.840 --> 01:40:33.760 to be a millionaire come direct these movies. I mean 2104 01:40:33.880 --> 01:40:36.800 that's kind of like a crass bottom line, but you know, 2105 01:40:36.920 --> 01:40:38.600 it's the movie that you know, it is a business 2106 01:40:38.680 --> 01:40:41.279 after all, and people think that way. You know, not 2107 01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:43.800 only that, but it's also you want to, you know, 2108 01:40:44.239 --> 01:40:46.760 come direct a sequel to the two most successful movies 2109 01:40:46.800 --> 01:40:49.520 of all time or top five or whatever it is. 2110 01:40:49.600 --> 01:40:50.880 It's like, how does the director say? 2111 01:40:50.920 --> 01:40:50.960 No? 2112 01:40:52.840 --> 01:40:55.680 They usually don't unless their last name is Spielberger says, 2113 01:40:55.960 --> 01:40:57.039 or you know what I mean? 2114 01:40:57.199 --> 01:40:58.119 And that wasn't Richard. 2115 01:40:58.159 --> 01:41:00.600 I mean, I don't know how many features Richard had 2116 01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:03.039 done before. You know, he did Iye of the Needle, 2117 01:41:03.159 --> 01:41:06.119 which is a good movie, and I think the movie 2118 01:41:06.159 --> 01:41:08.920 that attracted him to George. 2119 01:41:09.640 --> 01:41:12.199 I know, with so many producers, so much of it 2120 01:41:12.359 --> 01:41:14.319 is solving problems, and I was curious as far as 2121 01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:15.920 some of the problems that you had to solve while 2122 01:41:15.960 --> 01:41:17.640 you're making this, from. 2123 01:41:17.520 --> 01:41:22.479 My point of view, is logistical through. That was the 2124 01:41:22.600 --> 01:41:25.039 really first challenge for me was putting a unit together 2125 01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:27.920 without being able to call on all of the key 2126 01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:31.239 people out of Los Angeles and keep the quality of 2127 01:41:31.319 --> 01:41:34.079 the work up to where it had to be to 2128 01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:35.359 make a Star Wars movie. 2129 01:41:36.239 --> 01:41:37.119 That was a big issue. 2130 01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:42.520 The other issue was initially was finding the locations. Okay, 2131 01:41:42.520 --> 01:41:43.920 we want to go shoot in the desert, where do 2132 01:41:43.960 --> 01:41:46.640 you do that? In the United States, and you know, 2133 01:41:46.720 --> 01:41:52.640 we looked all over Robert and Norman Reynolds. Norman is 2134 01:41:52.640 --> 01:41:56.920 a great, wonderful production designer and a lovely guy, great guy. 2135 01:41:57.479 --> 01:41:59.920 We took this reconnaissance for about two or three weeks 2136 01:42:00.039 --> 01:42:03.439 where we went looking for locations for the desert and 2137 01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:08.800 then for the woods. We went from La outside of 2138 01:42:08.920 --> 01:42:14.359 Vegas to Saint George, Utah, all around Utah, into Colorado, 2139 01:42:14.399 --> 01:42:20.640 into the Four Corners area of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah. 2140 01:42:21.199 --> 01:42:23.760 You know, looking around those areas trying to find jobas 2141 01:42:23.960 --> 01:42:26.520 you know, where's where are we going to build a barge? 2142 01:42:27.319 --> 01:42:30.119 Nobody would ever build a barge can today and that 2143 01:42:30.399 --> 01:42:33.880 then nobody had ever built a set as big as 2144 01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:34.560 we built. 2145 01:42:35.439 --> 01:42:37.680 Outside of Arizona. 2146 01:42:38.079 --> 01:42:41.800 We built a sailboat that didn't sail in the middle 2147 01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:44.359 of the dunes, you know what I mean. It's like 2148 01:42:44.359 --> 01:42:48.640 I remember when we first talked to sailing consultants who 2149 01:42:48.680 --> 01:42:51.560 we hired to work on the movie, and it's like 2150 01:42:51.680 --> 01:42:53.079 they said, Okay, what do you want to do? He said, 2151 01:42:53.079 --> 01:42:54.960 we want to build a sailboat in the desert, and 2152 01:42:55.039 --> 01:42:58.239 they would look at us like, what, who builds a 2153 01:42:58.279 --> 01:43:00.600 sailboat that doesn't sell? You're going to put in the 2154 01:43:00.600 --> 01:43:02.279 desert where it's windy, and how are we going to 2155 01:43:02.359 --> 01:43:05.039 keep it from moving when the sails are sailboats, that's 2156 01:43:05.560 --> 01:43:08.199 how they were, and you put the sails up and 2157 01:43:08.359 --> 01:43:12.159 the sails apply pressure to the boat to make it 2158 01:43:12.520 --> 01:43:15.399 go through the water. So those are some of the challenges. 2159 01:43:15.479 --> 01:43:19.840 Was building this huge, fucking built a boat down in 2160 01:43:19.880 --> 01:43:22.439 the middle of the desert. So it was like being 2161 01:43:22.520 --> 01:43:24.319 down there and getting the crew in and the time 2162 01:43:24.399 --> 01:43:27.159 to do it all. And then the other difficult part 2163 01:43:27.199 --> 01:43:32.840 about the Redwoods is all the Great Redwoods are either 2164 01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:37.279 in national parks, in state parks, or on private property. 2165 01:43:37.960 --> 01:43:41.760 And the national parks and state parks are happy to 2166 01:43:41.840 --> 01:43:44.199 have you just stay on the path, don't walk off 2167 01:43:44.279 --> 01:43:47.439 the path. We need to plant some explosions in the trees. 2168 01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:51.640 It was like, what, no, we can't do that, nor 2169 01:43:51.680 --> 01:43:56.000 would you expect them to. And then the private forest 2170 01:43:56.199 --> 01:44:01.880 people who owned a lot of the original growth primary growth, 2171 01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:05.079 never touched redwood. They didn't know why anybody near it 2172 01:44:05.479 --> 01:44:09.399 because it was back during the Save the Redwoods time 2173 01:44:10.239 --> 01:44:12.920 and they didn't want word out that they had stuff 2174 01:44:13.039 --> 01:44:16.159 like this because they wanted to log it. They didn't 2175 01:44:16.199 --> 01:44:21.560 want movie people coming in, left wing movie people coming 2176 01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:25.479 in and letting people know where their old primary growth 2177 01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:29.119 forests were. So the challenge was is how do you 2178 01:44:29.199 --> 01:44:32.319 find somebody who's got it. Well, we did, you know, 2179 01:44:32.520 --> 01:44:35.199 And what's interesting is that we found this. It was 2180 01:44:35.319 --> 01:44:39.199 a curtain of primary growth redwood between Highway one oh 2181 01:44:39.279 --> 01:44:46.159 one and this completely logged out old growth strand of redwoods. 2182 01:44:46.159 --> 01:44:47.840 And they left the curtain up so that people on 2183 01:44:48.159 --> 01:44:51.520 the highway couldn't see how they demolished all of the 2184 01:44:51.560 --> 01:44:54.039 wood behind it. And that's why it was there, because 2185 01:44:54.039 --> 01:44:57.199 they were saying, okay, we're going to From their business 2186 01:44:57.279 --> 01:44:59.079 point of view, it was I think it was a 2187 01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:01.439 private company. I wasn't a public company. It wasn't like 2188 01:45:01.520 --> 01:45:05.039 Pacific Lumber. It was a small family group called Miller 2189 01:45:05.119 --> 01:45:07.680 Realm and it was like Miller and then spelled the 2190 01:45:07.760 --> 01:45:08.399 name backwards. 2191 01:45:08.439 --> 01:45:09.560 That was the name of the group. 2192 01:45:10.439 --> 01:45:14.720 And they owned these beautiful trees just south of the 2193 01:45:14.840 --> 01:45:19.960 Oregon border and between Crescent City and the Oregon border. 2194 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:24.720 And our location supervisor for that redwood stuff a woman 2195 01:45:24.800 --> 01:45:29.439 named Mickey Herman. She had scouted the entire coast of California. 2196 01:45:30.159 --> 01:45:32.640 She knew every redwood grow from Santa Cruz to the 2197 01:45:32.720 --> 01:45:36.159 Oregon border. She's seen it all in helicopters. And she 2198 01:45:36.359 --> 01:45:40.920 hired a local guy up in Crescent City who turned out. 2199 01:45:40.760 --> 01:45:42.479 To be a savior as far as finding this. 2200 01:45:42.600 --> 01:45:44.399 And he found this piece of property and he knew 2201 01:45:44.439 --> 01:45:46.840 the people, and they invited U sent And the first 2202 01:45:47.000 --> 01:45:50.279 day that we went looking through the Redwood location, I 2203 01:45:50.359 --> 01:45:57.319 remember walking through the redwoods, the thousand year old redwood groves, 2204 01:45:58.239 --> 01:46:02.159 and walking down into the hill and stepping into fern 2205 01:46:02.279 --> 01:46:04.560 force that were the ferns were up to my shoulder 2206 01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:09.199 and seeking into the leaves and all of this gross 2207 01:46:09.920 --> 01:46:15.760 underneath these huge you know, like near woods type redwoods, 2208 01:46:16.359 --> 01:46:18.880 And I felt like I'd been transported back, you know, 2209 01:46:19.079 --> 01:46:22.319 thousands of years to be in this farce. I mean, 2210 01:46:22.520 --> 01:46:26.319 it was a religious experience to do that. The stuff 2211 01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:30.359 had never been touched. And so they said, oh, yeah, 2212 01:46:30.359 --> 01:46:32.359 you can shoot here. We want to put things on 2213 01:46:32.399 --> 01:46:34.359 the trees. Okay, do whatever you want. We need to 2214 01:46:34.399 --> 01:46:35.920 build a road, no problem. 2215 01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:37.000 You know. 2216 01:46:37.199 --> 01:46:39.760 It was like we found the redwood planet, and we 2217 01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:42.319 found these trees that we thought we'd never yet. 2218 01:46:43.239 --> 01:46:44.239 It was just amazing. 2219 01:46:44.800 --> 01:46:47.039 Those are some of the challenges. Okay, let's go find 2220 01:46:47.079 --> 01:46:48.239 the locations. We got to do it here in the 2221 01:46:48.279 --> 01:46:50.159 States because we're not going in Norway for the snow, 2222 01:46:50.279 --> 01:46:53.680 or not glad of Tornesia for the desert, et cetera, 2223 01:46:53.760 --> 01:46:56.319 et cetera. Anyway, we found everything, and we had to 2224 01:46:56.399 --> 01:46:58.920 kind of launch those units and make it all work. 2225 01:46:58.960 --> 01:47:02.760 And then we had to integrate a. 2226 01:47:02.920 --> 01:47:07.560 UK crew with an American crew because the UK guys 2227 01:47:07.600 --> 01:47:10.720 were only bringing their keys over, not their all their 2228 01:47:10.720 --> 01:47:14.800 support people. Had to integrate art departments US Art Department, 2229 01:47:14.920 --> 01:47:19.399 UK Art Department. And we also had a big second 2230 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:22.279 unit up in the Redwoods. We had to put a 2231 01:47:22.520 --> 01:47:27.520 US second unit together to do all the second unit work, 2232 01:47:28.239 --> 01:47:32.399 all the Ewok battle stuff without the principles, you know, 2233 01:47:32.520 --> 01:47:37.039 with walker feet and trees falling over and tree gags 2234 01:47:37.399 --> 01:47:41.560 and explosions and you know, stuff like that. And we 2235 01:47:41.640 --> 01:47:46.680 also had the Ewoks, which was the largest congregation of 2236 01:47:46.760 --> 01:47:49.920 little people since the Wizard of Oz, you know, nobody 2237 01:47:49.960 --> 01:47:52.039 had ever made, you know, which was which is great fun, 2238 01:47:52.640 --> 01:47:54.479 you know in a way. And they were all up 2239 01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:57.239 in like you know, and we put them all together 2240 01:47:57.319 --> 01:48:01.800 in a like two or three motels up in it's 2241 01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:06.239 north of Smith River Brookings in Brookings, Oregon because it 2242 01:48:06.319 --> 01:48:08.159 was close and you know, it was kind of remarkable. 2243 01:48:08.479 --> 01:48:11.640 We also did the whole Blue Harvest thing, you know, 2244 01:48:11.840 --> 01:48:15.880 because I knew that we couldn't make a Star Wars movie, 2245 01:48:16.680 --> 01:48:20.920 you know, without somebody going, oh Star Wars shirt, there 2246 01:48:20.960 --> 01:48:25.880 goes the It was ten dollars became fifty. So I 2247 01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:28.760 said to George early on, I said, let's we need 2248 01:48:28.840 --> 01:48:32.000 to come in like we're making another movie. And I thought, 2249 01:48:32.119 --> 01:48:35.159 let's just pretend it's like making a horror movie. And 2250 01:48:35.319 --> 01:48:38.680 I tried to come up with the most boring name 2251 01:48:38.760 --> 01:48:41.920 that I could think of, and it was like Blue Harvest. 2252 01:48:42.119 --> 01:48:45.000 And the whole idea behind the named Blue Harvest is 2253 01:48:45.159 --> 01:48:50.439 it was supposed to uninspire you to ask, right. It 2254 01:48:50.560 --> 01:48:54.000 wasn't like a horror movie like each you're young, you 2255 01:48:54.119 --> 01:48:56.159 know what I mean. There was nothing active about it, 2256 01:48:56.880 --> 01:49:02.000 nothing made that It was too like peak your curiosity 2257 01:49:02.720 --> 01:49:05.119 when you think of like Dawn of the Dead, Day 2258 01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:06.359 of the Living, you know what I mean. 2259 01:49:06.439 --> 01:49:07.319 There was nothing less. 2260 01:49:07.439 --> 01:49:11.239 I said, no, no, no boring. It's like the Harvest. 2261 01:49:11.479 --> 01:49:14.079 That boring and the fact that you know you're going 2262 01:49:14.159 --> 01:49:16.640 to take that and combine it with it wasn't like 2263 01:49:16.800 --> 01:49:20.359 red harvest or blood harvest. It was like blue harvest. 2264 01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:25.800 It's like blue. It's like this passive color, you know 2265 01:49:25.880 --> 01:49:26.279 what I mean. 2266 01:49:26.399 --> 01:49:29.239 It was supposed to put you to sleep, and so 2267 01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:33.279 that's where blue Harvest came from. And the tagline was 2268 01:49:33.359 --> 01:49:38.720 supposed to be ridiculous, horror beyond imagination, Like who wrote 2269 01:49:38.800 --> 01:49:42.159 that line? It's like so cliched, you know what I mean. 2270 01:49:42.239 --> 01:49:45.359 It was just supposed to be dumb. And so that's 2271 01:49:45.399 --> 01:49:48.079 why that's where all of that came from, you know, 2272 01:49:48.199 --> 01:49:50.960 And it kind of worked for a while, you know, 2273 01:49:51.239 --> 01:49:54.800 until people started talking about Harrison and Cowrie and Mark 2274 01:49:54.920 --> 01:49:59.239 and R two and C three po and snow walkers 2275 01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:01.680 and speeders in Daha and we did it in Yngan, 2276 01:50:01.840 --> 01:50:03.880 we did it, so it kind of worked. The other 2277 01:50:03.960 --> 01:50:05.359 thing we were trying to do is that as Star 2278 01:50:05.439 --> 01:50:07.800 Wars it become so popular that there was a huge 2279 01:50:07.880 --> 01:50:11.119 following of fans who were going through the trash cans 2280 01:50:11.159 --> 01:50:13.159 at Isle m and looking for stuff all the time. 2281 01:50:13.920 --> 01:50:16.479 We just wanted to make sure that nothing happened to 2282 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:21.119 attract any attention to that. So that's where Blulble Blue 2283 01:50:21.159 --> 01:50:23.479 Harvest was. So yeah, it worked for a while. 2284 01:50:23.920 --> 01:50:26.479 Well, speaking of titles, what do you remember as far 2285 01:50:26.520 --> 01:50:29.600 as the title changing from revenge to return and then. 2286 01:50:30.560 --> 01:50:31.479 It was revenge. 2287 01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:35.079 And I said to George one day, and maybe other 2288 01:50:35.159 --> 01:50:37.520 people said the same thing, and I said to him, 2289 01:50:38.279 --> 01:50:41.920 I don't know if a Jedi would seek revenge. It's 2290 01:50:41.960 --> 01:50:46.840 not part of the Jedi philosophy. And he went to 2291 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:49.920 my George imitation, Yeah, that's interesting. Now, only think about that. 2292 01:50:50.760 --> 01:50:52.840 You know, within like a week or so, it changes 2293 01:50:52.920 --> 01:50:56.800 the return of the Jedi. Revenge is a better word 2294 01:50:56.960 --> 01:50:59.319 for a movie, but it's not what the movie is about. 2295 01:50:59.479 --> 01:51:03.000 It's really about the return of the Jedi. So it 2296 01:51:03.239 --> 01:51:05.680 changed from I still have Revenge of the Jedi t 2297 01:51:05.840 --> 01:51:09.600 shirts and sweatshirts and you know, but it changed from 2298 01:51:09.680 --> 01:51:12.399 revenge to return. I guess other people must upset it too, 2299 01:51:12.680 --> 01:51:16.039 because I remember reading something about it a while ago. 2300 01:51:16.520 --> 01:51:20.359 But then there's a lot of not invented here stuff 2301 01:51:20.399 --> 01:51:22.960 that happens in Hollywood. When you have a good idea, 2302 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:27.279 you sometimes find out years later that other people take 2303 01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:27.880 credit for it. 2304 01:51:28.600 --> 01:51:30.439 He said, you're doing a lot with the second unit. 2305 01:51:30.560 --> 01:51:31.640 Was that George directing that? 2306 01:51:32.640 --> 01:51:36.319 No, it was David Tomlin directed that, and David was 2307 01:51:36.399 --> 01:51:41.000 the first assistant director on Empire and then on Jedi, 2308 01:51:41.079 --> 01:51:44.000 and he was a good second unit director because when 2309 01:51:44.119 --> 01:51:47.319 we were shooting the second unit up in the woods, 2310 01:51:47.399 --> 01:51:50.600 the first unit was back at doing Blues screen work, 2311 01:51:51.439 --> 01:51:55.079 and because it was with the Principles, George wanted to 2312 01:51:55.119 --> 01:51:56.079 be with them, so. 2313 01:51:56.279 --> 01:51:59.600 He gave the second unit to David. Were with that 2314 01:52:00.000 --> 01:52:00.840 point was. 2315 01:52:01.359 --> 01:52:04.079 Very well versed in the Star Wars universe, having worked 2316 01:52:04.119 --> 01:52:08.439 on Empire and all of Jedi with. Richard had also 2317 01:52:08.560 --> 01:52:10.680 worked with some of the greatest directors in the world 2318 01:52:11.359 --> 01:52:14.479 as well in his career, and he was sort of 2319 01:52:14.520 --> 01:52:17.359 a really good choice and had directed second unit before. 2320 01:52:17.399 --> 01:52:20.560 Because the second unit stuff was mostly action stuff with 2321 01:52:20.720 --> 01:52:25.079 stunt men and battle stuff and special effects, and because 2322 01:52:25.119 --> 01:52:28.279 he had a good grasp of visual effects at that point, 2323 01:52:29.159 --> 01:52:31.279 he stayed on to do that, and we were essentially 2324 01:52:31.319 --> 01:52:34.680 shooting storyboard sequences. Just all that stuff had all been 2325 01:52:34.720 --> 01:52:38.039 storyboarded the head of time, so we knew which pieces 2326 01:52:38.079 --> 01:52:39.920 we were doing and when and what they looked like, 2327 01:52:40.159 --> 01:52:43.159 and everything was sort of built to accommodate all that. 2328 01:52:44.119 --> 01:52:46.319 David stayed on to do the second unit when we 2329 01:52:46.399 --> 01:52:48.720 were up in the woods, and then sometimes we had 2330 01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:50.800 like a third unit, and I directed a few shots, 2331 01:52:51.119 --> 01:52:57.399 you know, like I did in Norway Little Things, Robots 2332 01:52:57.920 --> 01:53:02.159 moving right to left or whole Second Night Little Things. 2333 01:53:02.960 --> 01:53:06.000 I've always been so impressive as far as the way 2334 01:53:06.079 --> 01:53:08.960 that the miniatures match with the rest of that, especially 2335 01:53:09.079 --> 01:53:13.159 like the logs rolling in the atsdes and all that. 2336 01:53:13.479 --> 01:53:14.319 It looks so good. 2337 01:53:15.239 --> 01:53:18.199 The challenge was not so much matching the miniatures to 2338 01:53:18.319 --> 01:53:22.439 the real, but matching the real to the miniatures, because 2339 01:53:22.920 --> 01:53:27.039 most of the stuff that you see is mostly models 2340 01:53:27.239 --> 01:53:33.199 miniature stuff, either matted into shots or complete shots with 2341 01:53:33.640 --> 01:53:34.800 just the miniatures in them. 2342 01:53:35.560 --> 01:53:36.760 And you know, most of the time. 2343 01:53:37.640 --> 01:53:40.520 We did have a full sized chicken walker up there, 2344 01:53:41.000 --> 01:53:43.760 but it didn't really move it just you know, wasn't 2345 01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:46.079 really practical to move it around. You can kind of 2346 01:53:46.159 --> 01:53:48.960 see it, but it was built and designed and created 2347 01:53:48.960 --> 01:53:53.159 a book. The great detail that the guys in the 2348 01:53:53.239 --> 01:53:56.560 model shop and the stop motion guys did with Phil 2349 01:53:56.600 --> 01:53:59.359 Tippett and John Berg and that whole stop motion group 2350 01:54:00.039 --> 01:54:01.720 that did a lot of the snow walker and the 2351 01:54:01.760 --> 01:54:04.439 little chicken walker type stuff. I'm sure if that was 2352 01:54:04.479 --> 01:54:06.319 the name that they finalizes. 2353 01:54:06.359 --> 01:54:06.560 Driver. 2354 01:54:07.159 --> 01:54:08.680 How'd you even move that thing around? 2355 01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:10.000 Or a crane? 2356 01:54:10.720 --> 01:54:12.359 You know, then find a spot or it. 2357 01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:13.560 You know, it came in pieces. 2358 01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:16.039 They bring the pieces down and then get some crane 2359 01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:18.720 down there or something small to kind of build it 2360 01:54:18.800 --> 01:54:21.600 up again. That put scaffolding around it and just construct it. 2361 01:54:22.479 --> 01:54:24.960 It didn't move too much when it was there. I 2362 01:54:25.039 --> 01:54:28.760 think the viral quill quite a few years prety limited 2363 01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:31.439 and maybe what it could do, and it didn't always 2364 01:54:31.520 --> 01:54:32.760 worked the way you wanted it to. 2365 01:54:33.479 --> 01:54:37.680 It's like big stuff. Those are tough pieces to move around. 2366 01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.119 Sounds like a. 2367 01:54:39.199 --> 01:54:41.640 Pretty arduous shoot. But did you have fun on it? 2368 01:54:42.359 --> 01:54:44.239 I don't know if I ever had fun shooting one 2369 01:54:44.279 --> 01:54:48.159 of the movies because they're just so difficult and so 2370 01:54:48.399 --> 01:54:51.680 complex and there are so many pieces and so many 2371 01:54:51.800 --> 01:54:54.039 elements that you need to keep in mind all the time, 2372 01:54:54.840 --> 01:54:58.520 but the way it's all being assembled and put together. 2373 01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:02.560 Ansley enjoyed working with the people that I worked with. 2374 01:55:03.399 --> 01:55:07.920 And I loved working with George because he's so brilliant 2375 01:55:08.319 --> 01:55:12.000 as a filmmaker, and loved working with a lot of 2376 01:55:12.039 --> 01:55:14.920 the English crew. I just love working with Norman Reynolds 2377 01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:18.680 and working with Robert Watts because they were so professional 2378 01:55:19.039 --> 01:55:21.800 and so much fun to make a movie with. I 2379 01:55:21.960 --> 01:55:25.960 love my team of people who I put together, you know, 2380 01:55:26.199 --> 01:55:29.279 I was you know, back in those days. It was 2381 01:55:29.319 --> 01:55:32.199 always very important to me because of how I grew 2382 01:55:32.319 --> 01:55:35.640 up in movies, to put good people together, to like 2383 01:55:35.800 --> 01:55:39.000 leave your personality at the door. People you know, and 2384 01:55:39.279 --> 01:55:41.840 you were like working on the movie together, and it's 2385 01:55:41.920 --> 01:55:45.760 not about ego. It's about you know, doing what's right 2386 01:55:45.840 --> 01:55:48.239 for the movie and making the good decisions, and you 2387 01:55:48.479 --> 01:55:51.560 try to leave the ego, you know, is to put 2388 01:55:51.600 --> 01:55:57.640 a group considerate human beings together, because I'd worked on 2389 01:55:57.680 --> 01:56:00.800 a bunch of movies where people were not considering and 2390 01:56:00.880 --> 01:56:03.439 there were too many assholes around, and it just you know, 2391 01:56:04.399 --> 01:56:06.800 you know, making movies is hard enough without having to 2392 01:56:06.880 --> 01:56:09.199 be surrounded by people like that. So it was always 2393 01:56:09.319 --> 01:56:12.479 very important for me to put a When people used 2394 01:56:12.520 --> 01:56:14.520 to say this about the movies that I produced, it 2395 01:56:14.680 --> 01:56:17.800 was just so nice. That was important to me to 2396 01:56:17.920 --> 01:56:21.920 hire key people would be good people. Life's too short, 2397 01:56:22.600 --> 01:56:24.359 you know, making movies is hard enough to make a 2398 01:56:24.439 --> 01:56:27.520 movie without having to work dickheads, you know, and so 2399 01:56:27.640 --> 01:56:30.720 you try to avoid that kind of stuff whenever you can. 2400 01:56:31.760 --> 01:56:34.760 So there were lots of people who enjoy their work, 2401 01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:37.199 people who care about the work. You know, people are 2402 01:56:37.279 --> 01:56:39.760 mean and shitty and they don't care and they're just cheap. 2403 01:56:40.279 --> 01:56:42.920 When somebody's faced with an opportunity of making a decision 2404 01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:45.079 of I can do this or I can do that. 2405 01:56:45.279 --> 01:56:46.680 If I do that, i'm helping them. And if I 2406 01:56:46.760 --> 01:56:49.720 do this this fuck them. If you're not nice to them, 2407 01:56:49.720 --> 01:56:52.239 they go fuck them. I asked for this or I 2408 01:56:52.359 --> 01:56:54.439 wanted to do that, and they said no, it's fuck 2409 01:56:54.479 --> 01:56:57.880 you go hang yourself. The old expression used to be, 2410 01:56:57.920 --> 01:56:59.640 if they're going to hang themselves, don't stand on the 2411 01:56:59.720 --> 01:57:02.479 rope and you try. I never enjoyed that, you know, 2412 01:57:02.640 --> 01:57:04.319 so that if I went to somebody and I needed 2413 01:57:04.359 --> 01:57:08.039 a favor, I wanted to do something, they were say sure, okay, great, Because. 2414 01:57:07.880 --> 01:57:11.319 You try to create a team. You know, you're putting 2415 01:57:11.319 --> 01:57:12.279 a team of people. 2416 01:57:12.079 --> 01:57:13.039 Together and you make a movie. 2417 01:57:13.079 --> 01:57:14.319 You're like making this little army. 2418 01:57:15.000 --> 01:57:18.840 It's moving around from place to place and you know, 2419 01:57:19.319 --> 01:57:21.600 going here and the vaving there and setting up shop 2420 01:57:21.720 --> 01:57:24.079 and coming in with the trucks and the people and 2421 01:57:24.119 --> 01:57:26.880 all the blah blah blah, and you know, and you 2422 01:57:26.960 --> 01:57:29.760 know it's like it's you know, no room for assholes. 2423 01:57:30.119 --> 01:57:31.680 I mean, that's the way I feel and I don't 2424 01:57:31.800 --> 01:57:33.560 like working with them, and I don't want them around 2425 01:57:33.600 --> 01:57:35.920 the movies that I worked on. It's just, you know, 2426 01:57:36.119 --> 01:57:38.079 it's kind of something I learned from working with George 2427 01:57:38.079 --> 01:57:40.520 and Carry is that you know that's not. 2428 01:57:40.560 --> 01:57:41.119 The way you do it. 2429 01:57:41.840 --> 01:57:44.640 You know there's still life. As I got older, the 2430 01:57:44.680 --> 01:57:46.600 other stuff you learned is that it's a movie. 2431 01:57:46.680 --> 01:57:48.359 Be life is life. 2432 01:57:49.079 --> 01:57:51.760 Somebody has a family member who's dying, you sort of say, yeah, 2433 01:57:51.840 --> 01:57:53.720 go take care of your family member for a few days, 2434 01:57:54.239 --> 01:57:56.600 as opposed to say, well, we got the shot tomorrow morning. 2435 01:57:56.760 --> 01:58:00.279 It's like, give me a break, because I've seen too 2436 01:58:00.319 --> 01:58:05.439 many unhappy people who in divorced families because they had 2437 01:58:05.479 --> 01:58:09.600 this attitude of that the show must go on. Come on, guys, 2438 01:58:09.680 --> 01:58:13.439 get real. It's not bring surgery. It's movie making. We'll 2439 01:58:13.479 --> 01:58:15.640 figure out a way to do it. I don't want 2440 01:58:15.680 --> 01:58:18.000 people getting hurt. You don't want people dying. They don't 2441 01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:19.439 want to make stupid mistakes. 2442 01:58:20.319 --> 01:58:21.000 It's not worth it. 2443 01:58:21.800 --> 01:58:24.880 There's another way to figure it out. But I guess 2444 01:58:24.920 --> 01:58:27.000 there are other people who don't agree with that philosophy. 2445 01:58:27.840 --> 01:58:31.399 Directors should throw a walkie talkies. Although I didn't work 2446 01:58:31.439 --> 01:58:34.359 with too many, I work with life's too short. It's 2447 01:58:34.399 --> 01:58:36.479 like it's hard enough, let's try and enjoy it while 2448 01:58:36.520 --> 01:58:36.960 we're doing it. 2449 01:59:01.960 --> 01:59:03.560 All right, We were back and we were talking about 2450 01:59:03.680 --> 01:59:06.159 return to the Jedi, and yeah, that's funny, Jamie. I 2451 01:59:06.159 --> 01:59:09.640 had in my notes the dark times post Jedi, because 2452 01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:13.319 we went for a lot of years with nothing. As 2453 01:59:13.359 --> 01:59:16.039 Star Wars fans. It was, you know, you had those 2454 01:59:16.520 --> 01:59:19.319 two Ewok movies, you had the Droids cartoon, you had 2455 01:59:19.359 --> 01:59:23.560 the Ewoks cartoon, but that was about it. There wasn't 2456 01:59:23.560 --> 01:59:25.319 a whole lot going on. So yeah, you had like 2457 01:59:25.439 --> 01:59:28.520 Banther tracks and then eventually Star Wars and Cider as 2458 01:59:28.560 --> 01:59:32.880 a magazine. But there it was a really dry, dry 2459 01:59:33.039 --> 01:59:33.880 period for us. 2460 01:59:34.640 --> 01:59:38.119 The Christmas eighty four, it must have been. I got 2461 01:59:38.159 --> 01:59:41.520 the Ewok village and a few of the Ewoks figures, 2462 01:59:41.600 --> 01:59:44.319 and I got the Rebel Troot Transport as well. I 2463 01:59:44.359 --> 01:59:47.640 remember my sister got a Commodore sixty four and I 2464 01:59:47.720 --> 01:59:49.640 was like playing with my Ewox and I'm looking across 2465 01:59:49.680 --> 01:59:51.720 at this Commodore sixty four and I was ignoring my 2466 01:59:51.800 --> 01:59:53.840 Ewox and I was going, I want one of those, 2467 01:59:53.880 --> 01:59:55.199 you know. And that's kind of when I gave up 2468 01:59:55.239 --> 01:59:57.720 Stars and my mom gave away all my stuff to 2469 01:59:57.800 --> 02:00:00.600 this really annoying kid down the road. I'll never forgive 2470 02:00:00.960 --> 02:00:03.760 or him for that. And then I remember going to 2471 02:00:03.800 --> 02:00:05.760 another toy shop, a toy shop that I used to 2472 02:00:05.840 --> 02:00:08.640 visit to buy Stars figures, and I remember seeing those here. 2473 02:00:08.680 --> 02:00:10.880 There were the tri logo packs. They had like the 2474 02:00:10.960 --> 02:00:13.720 Spanish and the Battalion and the English as well, like 2475 02:00:13.840 --> 02:00:16.760 your Power of the Force era, and it had like 2476 02:00:16.960 --> 02:00:21.159 the Barada figure and the Luke Stormtrooper figure, and some 2477 02:00:21.239 --> 02:00:25.720 of the more Ewoks and the Imperial Dignitary. I think 2478 02:00:25.760 --> 02:00:27.279 you barely see him in Return of Jedi, but I 2479 02:00:27.359 --> 02:00:28.800 remember going, oh, I want one of those, and my 2480 02:00:28.840 --> 02:00:31.439 mum said, you've grown out of that. And then there 2481 02:00:31.520 --> 02:00:33.199 was a period in that same toy shop I remember 2482 02:00:33.279 --> 02:00:36.000 passing where everything was being sold off for like fifty 2483 02:00:36.079 --> 02:00:38.439 p and I still regret to this day, and I 2484 02:00:38.520 --> 02:00:40.439 still got this image of just like all of the 2485 02:00:40.520 --> 02:00:44.079 toys just stacked up from all the different eras, Star Wars, Empire, Jedi, 2486 02:00:44.439 --> 02:00:48.560 oh my god, all of them, you know. And there 2487 02:00:48.680 --> 02:00:51.720 was this period between eighty five and maybe ninety one 2488 02:00:52.279 --> 02:00:54.920 where there was just nothing. I think you've mentioned about 2489 02:00:54.920 --> 02:00:57.439 Stars Insider, but The precursor to that was the Lucasfilm 2490 02:00:57.560 --> 02:01:01.199 Fan Club magazine. Remember seeing that one day. The thing 2491 02:01:01.279 --> 02:01:03.520 that really sparked it again for me was when I 2492 02:01:03.640 --> 02:01:08.119 found Steve sand sweets from concept to screen to collectible. 2493 02:01:08.199 --> 02:01:10.119 There was this gold and black book with Vader on 2494 02:01:10.199 --> 02:01:12.000 and it. We opened it up, my buddy and I 2495 02:01:12.359 --> 02:01:14.520 we were like seventeen at the time or something like that, 2496 02:01:14.600 --> 02:01:16.279 and it was all the figures and we're like, I 2497 02:01:16.319 --> 02:01:18.399 didn't know that one existed. I didn't, you know. And 2498 02:01:18.520 --> 02:01:20.279 we got we were started to go around you know 2499 02:01:20.439 --> 02:01:22.680 what we call charity shops, you'd say thrift stores, I guess, 2500 02:01:23.000 --> 02:01:26.199 and boot sales, table cells, just buying this stuff up. 2501 02:01:26.239 --> 02:01:28.600 And that's when I kind of really got back into 2502 02:01:28.640 --> 02:01:31.600 it all again. But I remember that period of like nothing, 2503 02:01:31.800 --> 02:01:34.680 and I still hankeered for more stars. I wanted like 2504 02:01:34.720 --> 02:01:37.520 an animated show with the further adventures of Luke and 2505 02:01:37.600 --> 02:01:40.800 Ann and Leia. I wanted more movies. I wanted more 2506 02:01:40.880 --> 02:01:43.680 video games, you know, And I guess there were some 2507 02:01:43.760 --> 02:01:45.560 video games, you know, tie Fire and X Wing and 2508 02:01:45.600 --> 02:01:48.000 all of that stuff on PC later on, But those 2509 02:01:48.039 --> 02:01:50.560 times they did seem like the dark times. There wasn't 2510 02:01:51.000 --> 02:01:52.920 much about and if you were still into Star Wars, 2511 02:01:52.960 --> 02:01:56.800 it was like, really, haven't you moved on Turtles or 2512 02:01:57.000 --> 02:01:59.880 Mask or something else. I don't know a Mask, Yeah, 2513 02:02:00.199 --> 02:02:01.800 those not our masters in the universe. 2514 02:02:01.880 --> 02:02:04.239 No, but you're right, it was disappointing when you finally 2515 02:02:04.319 --> 02:02:06.880 found out that Return was the last movie. So I 2516 02:02:06.920 --> 02:02:08.840 think I brought up on when I was on a 2517 02:02:09.000 --> 02:02:11.760 Dune episode with Mike, like, that's how I got into 2518 02:02:11.880 --> 02:02:14.760 Dune was because it was supposed to be the next 2519 02:02:14.800 --> 02:02:17.520 Star Wars. That's why they were That's what the magazines 2520 02:02:17.600 --> 02:02:20.279 at the time where everything was promoting it for and 2521 02:02:20.319 --> 02:02:22.560 there was toys, and I'm like, oh, this is the 2522 02:02:22.640 --> 02:02:24.640 next June. You know. I didn't see it in the theaters, 2523 02:02:24.680 --> 02:02:27.840 but I rented it and dubbed it on like ripped 2524 02:02:27.880 --> 02:02:30.439 it to Betamax tape, and I'd watch it over and 2525 02:02:30.560 --> 02:02:32.800 over again to like it because I thought it was 2526 02:02:32.880 --> 02:02:34.600 going to be the next Star Wars. And of course 2527 02:02:35.199 --> 02:02:37.279 years later I learned, you know, of course it was 2528 02:02:37.359 --> 02:02:38.880 never going to be another Star Wars. It was so 2529 02:02:39.039 --> 02:02:42.880 disappointing not having another Star Wars. And then yeah, I 2530 02:02:43.039 --> 02:02:44.960 just kind of I don't remember the exact time I 2531 02:02:45.039 --> 02:02:47.279 fell out of the toys. It was probably I think 2532 02:02:47.319 --> 02:02:49.520 I got into Gi Joe after Star Wars because I 2533 02:02:49.600 --> 02:02:51.520 was still really young. I was ten when the movie 2534 02:02:51.560 --> 02:02:52.960 came out, so I was still playing with all that 2535 02:02:53.039 --> 02:02:55.760 shit and Masters of the Universe. But it was it 2536 02:02:55.880 --> 02:02:59.359 was sad, and then it wasn't until the early nineties, 2537 02:02:59.680 --> 02:03:01.479 or like I said, when I got into film schools, 2538 02:03:01.520 --> 02:03:04.199 when I rediscovered Star Wars again. 2539 02:03:04.239 --> 02:03:06.079 And you can see it from a different eye, you know, 2540 02:03:06.119 --> 02:03:06.920 because I had roommates. 2541 02:03:06.920 --> 02:03:09.279 We're all smoking weed at the time, and you're watching 2542 02:03:09.359 --> 02:03:13.520 it now in a different mind frame and rediscovering it 2543 02:03:13.600 --> 02:03:16.000 and being like, oh shit, my friend's a laser dis player, 2544 02:03:16.159 --> 02:03:18.479 my roommate, and you're like, dude, this is amazing. 2545 02:03:18.600 --> 02:03:21.319 Oh yeah, that Definitive Collection laser it. 2546 02:03:21.520 --> 02:03:24.119 Oh yeah, I remember, Yeah, my friend had it and 2547 02:03:24.159 --> 02:03:26.239 he called it the Defective Collection because there was like 2548 02:03:26.399 --> 02:03:31.399 missing pieces and the extras were really scant, and just 2549 02:03:31.560 --> 02:03:34.880 like oh yeah, Like we were excited. We were thinking, like, oh, 2550 02:03:34.960 --> 02:03:37.279 the Holiday Special is going to be on here, because 2551 02:03:37.359 --> 02:03:40.319 that was such an important part of our lives growing up. 2552 02:03:40.399 --> 02:03:42.479 And do you know, I wasn't aware of the Holiday 2553 02:03:42.520 --> 02:03:45.439 Special until I started to collect style stuff again, Like 2554 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.640 in the early nineties. I remember being a toy fair 2555 02:03:48.119 --> 02:03:50.560 just down the road here and this guy had a 2556 02:03:50.680 --> 02:03:53.720 VHS obviously boot leg, So what is this? And it 2557 02:03:53.800 --> 02:03:57.000 said this fills in the gap between stars and the 2558 02:03:57.000 --> 02:03:57.800 Impire stress back. 2559 02:03:57.840 --> 02:03:59.279 I was like, what, there's more like? 2560 02:03:59.359 --> 02:04:01.119 I couldn't believe, you know. And I've got home with 2561 02:04:01.640 --> 02:04:04.319 that same buddy of mine that we discovered since weeks 2562 02:04:04.359 --> 02:04:05.399 book with and we put it. 2563 02:04:05.439 --> 02:04:07.760 In and we were just a few poor guy, Oh 2564 02:04:07.880 --> 02:04:08.680 my god, what. 2565 02:04:08.840 --> 02:04:12.439 Is happening us? Have we just entered another dimension? I'd know, 2566 02:04:12.560 --> 02:04:14.520 because it never got screened in the UK as far 2567 02:04:14.560 --> 02:04:17.680 as I know, so it was completely off our radar, 2568 02:04:17.920 --> 02:04:20.079 never mentioned anywhere in any of the books I had. 2569 02:04:20.680 --> 02:04:23.079 Have you seen the documentary about the Holiday special? 2570 02:04:23.920 --> 02:04:27.760 Oh? A Disturbance in the Forest? Yeah, fantastic. Oh I 2571 02:04:27.880 --> 02:04:28.600 need to watch that. 2572 02:04:29.359 --> 02:04:32.119 I saw it live when it was on as a kid, 2573 02:04:32.680 --> 02:04:34.920 and for years I thought I made it up or something, 2574 02:04:34.920 --> 02:04:37.800 because I remember we all gathered around and watched it, 2575 02:04:38.560 --> 02:04:40.920 and I had a vague memory of it, and I 2576 02:04:40.960 --> 02:04:43.279 didn't think it was real until like the Internet and 2577 02:04:43.399 --> 02:04:45.319 later on, when I just like that was a real 2578 02:04:45.479 --> 02:04:47.520 thing that we sat around there and watched on TV 2579 02:04:47.680 --> 02:04:48.680 one in my. 2580 02:04:48.880 --> 02:04:51.399 Head that cartoon with Boba Fete was like a half 2581 02:04:51.439 --> 02:04:54.640 an hour long. It was probably maybe like five ten 2582 02:04:54.680 --> 02:04:56.520 minutes or something like that, but it might have the 2583 02:04:56.600 --> 02:04:59.520 best thing. Yeah, and I loved him writing the dragon 2584 02:04:59.680 --> 02:05:02.479 and he had that cool little spear thing and just 2585 02:05:02.560 --> 02:05:06.000 the voice characterization, like that's right, friend, you know, I 2586 02:05:06.279 --> 02:05:07.920 loved that. I thought it was great. 2587 02:05:08.560 --> 02:05:11.720 Yeah, dude, he was so badass. It was so ripe 2588 02:05:11.880 --> 02:05:14.439 to be put in an animated world style Wars. And 2589 02:05:14.520 --> 02:05:15.880 I just feel like, you know, there was that fan 2590 02:05:15.960 --> 02:05:18.800 a few years ago that did that kind of X 2591 02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:21.079 wing of tie fight, a kind of battle or something 2592 02:05:21.439 --> 02:05:23.840 in a kind of an anime style. He was just 2593 02:05:23.880 --> 02:05:25.880 a fan just with saying, Lucasfilm, give me some word, 2594 02:05:25.920 --> 02:05:28.159 and that's some of the best stuff I've seen. And 2595 02:05:28.199 --> 02:05:29.760 I would have loved that as a kid, you know, 2596 02:05:29.920 --> 02:05:32.319 just imagine that like a weekly series of The Further 2597 02:05:32.439 --> 02:05:35.439 Adventures of Droid's was a riot. But you know, it 2598 02:05:35.520 --> 02:05:37.720 didn't kind of scratch that itch. 2599 02:05:38.119 --> 02:05:42.640 I'm sure had I been younger, that Clone Wars cartoon 2600 02:05:42.680 --> 02:05:44.680 would have been right up my street. Or like there 2601 02:05:44.760 --> 02:05:47.159 was another one too, not bad Batch, but there was 2602 02:05:47.159 --> 02:05:50.119 another cartoon that was supposed to be really good Rebels Rebels, 2603 02:05:50.199 --> 02:05:53.560 thank you. And I think that also would explain a 2604 02:05:53.640 --> 02:05:55.760 lot of stuff that's going on in the Star Wars 2605 02:05:55.920 --> 02:05:58.600 universe now that I'm not aware of, because even as 2606 02:05:58.640 --> 02:06:01.640 a kid like I would hear these things and like 2607 02:06:01.760 --> 02:06:04.479 they would start to build the expanded universe. Like I remember, 2608 02:06:05.039 --> 02:06:07.600 I was huge into the Marvel comic books, and I 2609 02:06:07.720 --> 02:06:10.840 really liked the comic book that came out after Jedi 2610 02:06:11.079 --> 02:06:14.239 where it showed Bulba Fet coming out of the Sarlac 2611 02:06:14.359 --> 02:06:17.319 pit because it was protected by his armor, and then 2612 02:06:17.359 --> 02:06:20.680 he gets picked up from buy some jahwas and then eventually, 2613 02:06:20.920 --> 02:06:23.119 like I think, he is on top of a sand 2614 02:06:23.199 --> 02:06:25.399 crawler and it crashes over the side of a mountain, 2615 02:06:25.399 --> 02:06:27.960 so he ends up dying again anyway, but you hear 2616 02:06:28.079 --> 02:06:30.800 more about the Mandalorians and all this kind of stuff, 2617 02:06:31.239 --> 02:06:33.079 and I was like, Wow, this is really cool, and 2618 02:06:33.199 --> 02:06:36.079 then you see the way that they handled it and 2619 02:06:36.159 --> 02:06:38.880 book at Boba Fet where it's just like, Oi, I 2620 02:06:38.960 --> 02:06:40.680 got rescued out of that thing. I want to be 2621 02:06:40.760 --> 02:06:42.920 friends with everybody, you know, Oh, you need a job, 2622 02:06:43.159 --> 02:06:44.840 you know, and it's just like, what the fuck is 2623 02:06:44.960 --> 02:06:46.600 this show? This is awful? 2624 02:06:47.560 --> 02:06:49.159 Did you know the only thing I liked about that 2625 02:06:49.319 --> 02:06:51.600 show was that we were back there. We were back 2626 02:06:51.640 --> 02:06:53.520 in Jab's palace, and I could look at it again 2627 02:06:54.079 --> 02:06:56.359 for an angle. That was the only aspect to like today. 2628 02:06:57.359 --> 02:06:59.479 He's like Han out of a carbon night man, you 2629 02:06:59.680 --> 02:07:00.880 just change ye. 2630 02:07:01.439 --> 02:07:01.600 Yes. 2631 02:07:02.319 --> 02:07:04.520 Every episode had them going in that back to tank 2632 02:07:04.640 --> 02:07:07.159 for you know, half the episode and flashing back to 2633 02:07:07.279 --> 02:07:09.439 the sand people, and I'm just like, all these poor 2634 02:07:09.479 --> 02:07:12.840 sand people they're gonna you know, they got massacred by Anakin. 2635 02:07:13.279 --> 02:07:16.119 They're probably still talking about it today. I did actually 2636 02:07:16.239 --> 02:07:21.079 like that show. Unfortunately, I liked the two Mandalorian episodes 2637 02:07:21.119 --> 02:07:23.840 that they snuck into Book and Bubba fut Phenomenal. 2638 02:07:24.039 --> 02:07:25.800 They were great, Yeah, these are good. 2639 02:07:25.840 --> 02:07:26.479 Phenomenal. 2640 02:07:26.760 --> 02:07:29.520 Yeah, they're really good. Third season of The Mandalorian where 2641 02:07:29.560 --> 02:07:32.359 it was just like the whole Katie Sacoff thing, I'm like, 2642 02:07:32.840 --> 02:07:34.399 I'm getting ready to be done with the show. 2643 02:07:34.479 --> 02:07:34.760 Guys. 2644 02:07:34.840 --> 02:07:38.239 This was originally so great. As soon as they brought 2645 02:07:38.359 --> 02:07:41.039 Luke in, I was like, oh, please don't bring in Luke. 2646 02:07:41.119 --> 02:07:43.600 I don't need this to be tied to the Skywalker 2647 02:07:43.720 --> 02:07:44.479 family anymore. 2648 02:07:44.720 --> 02:07:46.720 This is why I loved Andors so much, though, because 2649 02:07:46.760 --> 02:07:49.479 it didn't need to be Star Wars ultimately, and it's 2650 02:07:49.560 --> 02:07:52.920 really well written. The sets are amazing, the performances are amazing. 2651 02:07:53.479 --> 02:07:57.319 It's got a great soundtrack, it's got nods to films 2652 02:07:57.359 --> 02:08:00.359 that we've all discovered after we fell in love with 2653 02:08:00.439 --> 02:08:00.880 Star Wars. 2654 02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:01.880 I thought that was great. 2655 02:08:01.920 --> 02:08:03.640 And you know, I've said to friends of mine who 2656 02:08:03.720 --> 02:08:05.399 goes stars, never seen one. You know, I don't know 2657 02:08:05.439 --> 02:08:07.960 why they're are friends, but I said to them, this 2658 02:08:08.159 --> 02:08:09.880 is the series for you because you can watch this 2659 02:08:10.000 --> 02:08:12.760 and you don't really have to know anything about Jedis 2660 02:08:12.920 --> 02:08:15.680 or jah Wars or anything. You can just go in 2661 02:08:15.800 --> 02:08:17.119 and see it for what it is, which is a 2662 02:08:17.119 --> 02:08:19.680 great bit of TV. I think those other series they 2663 02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:23.079 just tried so hard to kind of connect dots in 2664 02:08:23.159 --> 02:08:24.439 the same way that the prequels did. 2665 02:08:24.479 --> 02:08:24.600 You know. 2666 02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:26.520 It's like, oh, look, there's a big arrow here to 2667 02:08:26.600 --> 02:08:28.920 say that was po was built by Anakin's that what. 2668 02:08:29.920 --> 02:08:32.479 I was so disappointed by the Obi Wan show because 2669 02:08:32.520 --> 02:08:34.399 of the layer thing, because for years they were talking 2670 02:08:34.399 --> 02:08:36.119 about there was gonna be an obi Wan movie, and 2671 02:08:36.239 --> 02:08:38.640 I was so excited because I thought you McGregor was 2672 02:08:38.880 --> 02:08:42.159 perfect casting and him getting older to play obi Wan. 2673 02:08:43.000 --> 02:08:43.840 I was so hyped. 2674 02:08:43.880 --> 02:08:47.760 But then that TV show, it just it puts Princess 2675 02:08:47.960 --> 02:08:50.000 lay and it's like, why we don't need that, Why 2676 02:08:50.039 --> 02:08:53.039 can't we just have that Seventh Samurai Adventure? 2677 02:08:53.920 --> 02:08:55.800 And Luke was in there as well, wasn't it at 2678 02:08:55.840 --> 02:08:59.119 the Homestead? I think the little Luke and I do 2679 02:08:59.119 --> 02:09:01.359 you know? The brother about that show for me was 2680 02:09:02.119 --> 02:09:04.800 when they have that fight. It wasn't the fight itself, 2681 02:09:04.840 --> 02:09:07.760 it was that moment where he's half an Akin half 2682 02:09:07.840 --> 02:09:10.239 Vader and the voice keeps changing. I was like, that 2683 02:09:10.359 --> 02:09:12.000 should have been in the prequels. That is what we 2684 02:09:12.079 --> 02:09:12.880 all wanted to see. 2685 02:09:13.760 --> 02:09:15.680 Well, that's the problem with the prequels. 2686 02:09:15.720 --> 02:09:15.960 For me. 2687 02:09:16.119 --> 02:09:18.920 I like the prequels, except I don't like the Phantom Menace. 2688 02:09:19.159 --> 02:09:21.960 I think the Phantom Menace him being a kid throughout 2689 02:09:22.000 --> 02:09:25.600 the whole Phantom Menace really rushes the character development in 2690 02:09:25.680 --> 02:09:28.199 the two other movies. That's the one I'm not a 2691 02:09:28.279 --> 02:09:30.279 big fan of. I like Darth Maul and I love 2692 02:09:30.319 --> 02:09:33.039 the pod Race. There sequences and Phantom Menace I like. 2693 02:09:33.199 --> 02:09:36.560 But I liked Episode two and three way more. But 2694 02:09:36.640 --> 02:09:39.039 the things I liked about the prequels was at least 2695 02:09:40.000 --> 02:09:45.399 compared to the later sequels trilogy at least everything was different. 2696 02:09:45.479 --> 02:09:48.399 In the prequels, we were seeing things we hadn't seen before, 2697 02:09:48.560 --> 02:09:53.000 spacecraft and villains and set pieces that were original, versus 2698 02:09:53.119 --> 02:09:55.680 the new trilogy we got, which was, well, we had 2699 02:09:55.720 --> 02:09:57.920 to now go back to the original Star Wars and 2700 02:09:58.000 --> 02:10:00.359 show you all the cool things you liked in that again, 2701 02:10:00.560 --> 02:10:04.439 versus we got to see new machinery and we've never 2702 02:10:04.520 --> 02:10:06.439 seen a padre, so we've never seen a lot of 2703 02:10:06.520 --> 02:10:07.239 that stuff before. 2704 02:10:07.279 --> 02:10:08.880 That's why I liked the prequels. 2705 02:10:08.920 --> 02:10:12.279 But Episode one bummed me out because I thought it wasted, 2706 02:10:12.800 --> 02:10:15.199 and again, as a kid too much, I always kind 2707 02:10:15.239 --> 02:10:17.000 of wish it was like Good Fellas, where we had 2708 02:10:17.079 --> 02:10:19.119 him as a kid for twenty thirty minutes and then 2709 02:10:19.199 --> 02:10:21.319 we got to see him gradually grow up. But that 2710 02:10:21.359 --> 02:10:23.239 would make it a completely different movie. 2711 02:10:24.239 --> 02:10:26.239 The second movie feels like such a waste to me. 2712 02:10:26.479 --> 02:10:29.000 That feels Attack of the Clones. It feels like a 2713 02:10:29.119 --> 02:10:31.359 detective movie that I just don't care about. 2714 02:10:31.399 --> 02:10:34.439 Where it's you didn't get it, it doesn't make any sense. 2715 02:10:35.279 --> 02:10:37.640 Yeah, well, I'll be ones trying to figure out who's 2716 02:10:37.680 --> 02:10:40.520 building these clones, who's ordering these clones. There's this whole 2717 02:10:40.600 --> 02:10:43.800 thing about you know, Darth Sidious and then Darth's who 2718 02:10:44.000 --> 02:10:47.720 was that Chrisopher Lee played to count count do you? 2719 02:10:48.520 --> 02:10:50.640 But he also has a Darth name. He might be 2720 02:10:50.760 --> 02:10:53.479 Darth Tyrannus or something. I don't know, Count dou Killa 2721 02:10:54.039 --> 02:10:57.920 the rush to make him Darth Vader in the last 2722 02:10:58.000 --> 02:11:00.680 five minutes, I was like, no, no, no, Like the 2723 02:11:00.880 --> 02:11:04.000 whole third movie should be him as Darth Vader. The 2724 02:11:04.119 --> 02:11:07.000 second movie should be The Fall from Grace, and it 2725 02:11:07.199 --> 02:11:10.279 just like all the rules of like, oh, Jedis can't 2726 02:11:10.279 --> 02:11:12.680 get married. I'm like, what what is happening here? Like 2727 02:11:12.960 --> 02:11:16.479 why is this the conflict? And appreciate your opinion, Steven, 2728 02:11:16.520 --> 02:11:19.520 I just have nothing good to say about those prequels. 2729 02:11:19.119 --> 02:11:22.520 Whatsoever, Dude, It's all good Chris for years that I 2730 02:11:22.640 --> 02:11:26.680 get a lot of anger toward me for defending the people, 2731 02:11:27.239 --> 02:11:29.000 ate me for defending them, But it was just like 2732 02:11:29.560 --> 02:11:31.359 I just liked that they were different and I had 2733 02:11:31.359 --> 02:11:31.920 a great time. 2734 02:11:32.000 --> 02:11:33.079 Except Phantom Menace. 2735 02:11:33.159 --> 02:11:35.239 I'm not the biggest fan. I do love the duels 2736 02:11:35.600 --> 02:11:38.079 in Phantom Menace. There were so many things in Phantom Menace. 2737 02:11:38.159 --> 02:11:40.960 I like it, but it just can't I can't handle 2738 02:11:41.079 --> 02:11:43.800 him as a kid being a fighter pilot and doing 2739 02:11:43.880 --> 02:11:45.319 all that. It feels like he should have been a 2740 02:11:45.439 --> 02:11:49.119 teenager at that point of the movie doing that, but 2741 02:11:49.359 --> 02:11:51.800 him being still that young. I'm not gonna buy his 2742 02:11:52.000 --> 02:11:54.720 relationship with Finalie Portman in this second? 2743 02:11:55.439 --> 02:11:59.479 Are you an Angel? Imagine Return of Jedi didn't exist, right, 2744 02:12:00.239 --> 02:12:03.239 and all of those series, the prequel let's say the prequels, 2745 02:12:03.279 --> 02:12:06.800 then the series, and then the sequels. Imagine they're jumping 2746 02:12:06.840 --> 02:12:09.359 off point was the Empire strikes back? Because if you 2747 02:12:09.439 --> 02:12:13.119 think about it, a lot of those shows and those 2748 02:12:13.159 --> 02:12:16.479 prequels and those sequels, esthetically and tone wise, they are 2749 02:12:16.560 --> 02:12:19.039 more Return of the Jedi than they are Empire or 2750 02:12:19.119 --> 02:12:22.039 Star Wars. I think, you know, as much as I 2751 02:12:22.119 --> 02:12:23.880 love some of those environments I've talked about, you know, 2752 02:12:24.000 --> 02:12:28.199 Jabber's Palace, altern of Jedi, I think that you know, 2753 02:12:28.399 --> 02:12:30.159 we really needed to get away from all of that 2754 02:12:30.239 --> 02:12:32.319 stuff and that asthetic. I'd love it if it went 2755 02:12:32.399 --> 02:12:36.079 down that path that the Empire was on and Luke 2756 02:12:36.119 --> 02:12:38.520 had really turned to the dark side and a few 2757 02:12:38.520 --> 02:12:40.760 people have got killed off, and imagine what we'd been 2758 02:12:40.800 --> 02:12:43.359 having now, maybe we wouldn't have had to wait all 2759 02:12:43.439 --> 02:12:46.079 these years to have and or which you know, deals 2760 02:12:46.199 --> 02:12:49.880 with some pretty grown up topics, and for this Jeni, 2761 02:12:49.920 --> 02:12:51.840 it's for our generation, right that show. It's not for 2762 02:12:52.039 --> 02:12:54.319 anyone else. It's not for the kids who liked Rebels 2763 02:12:54.439 --> 02:12:58.239 or even the prequel guys potentially, But yeah, I just 2764 02:12:58.520 --> 02:13:00.680 I just thought, esthetically, they do you match your to 2765 02:13:00.760 --> 02:13:02.479 in the Jedi more than they match anything else. 2766 02:13:03.319 --> 02:13:06.119 It is so fitting for twenty twenty five, just this 2767 02:13:06.239 --> 02:13:09.079 whole idea of this push towards fascism and stuff. And 2768 02:13:09.119 --> 02:13:10.680 it's so funny because of course I had to think 2769 02:13:10.680 --> 02:13:13.600 about Trump while I was watching this, and thinking, he 2770 02:13:13.800 --> 02:13:16.399 probably wants to be the Emperor, but at best he's 2771 02:13:16.479 --> 02:13:19.520 job of the Hut, this whole thing of who's going 2772 02:13:19.560 --> 02:13:21.800 to pay me the most kind of thing and bargaining 2773 02:13:21.920 --> 02:13:24.680 with Boosh and all this stuff. You get to the 2774 02:13:24.760 --> 02:13:27.000 Emperor's scenes and you're just like, no, this guy knows 2775 02:13:27.079 --> 02:13:29.720 what he's doing. He's got everything taken care of. His 2776 02:13:30.159 --> 02:13:33.600 fatal flaw is that he doesn't think that Vader will 2777 02:13:33.640 --> 02:13:36.359 ever turn, and he thinks that those people down on 2778 02:13:36.439 --> 02:13:38.640 the surface of the planet of the fourth Moon of 2779 02:13:38.760 --> 02:13:42.119 Endoor are going to succeed. I do like there's a 2780 02:13:42.279 --> 02:13:45.960 deleted scene where the Emperor orders them to fire on 2781 02:13:46.479 --> 02:13:50.399 the moon and basically wipe out everybody, like take out 2782 02:13:50.520 --> 02:13:53.880 that that whole thing, including all of the imperial people 2783 02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:55.439 that are down there, and you have this whole thing 2784 02:13:55.520 --> 02:13:59.319 of Gerad like having conflicting feelings and stuff, and poor 2785 02:13:59.399 --> 02:14:02.239 jar Gerard is just completely elominated from the film, other 2786 02:14:02.279 --> 02:14:05.119 than like one scene where it's just like, oh, yeah, 2787 02:14:05.319 --> 02:14:07.680 I need more people. I can't build this that fast, 2788 02:14:07.800 --> 02:14:10.319 and it's like, okay, yeah, you're on every project that 2789 02:14:10.399 --> 02:14:12.800 I've ever been out on my life during my normal 2790 02:14:12.920 --> 02:14:16.239 nine to five. Not enough time, not enough resources, but 2791 02:14:16.359 --> 02:14:18.479 yet you want perfection, Okay. Great. 2792 02:14:19.319 --> 02:14:22.640 I interviewed the editor returns It, who was Markwan's editor, 2793 02:14:23.000 --> 02:14:25.760 a guy called Sean Barley lives in West London, and 2794 02:14:25.880 --> 02:14:27.520 I went to his house for the morning and we 2795 02:14:27.600 --> 02:14:29.600 chatted about it and he was talking about that early 2796 02:14:29.720 --> 02:14:32.199 cut he did that was quite plodding. I think the 2797 02:14:32.279 --> 02:14:34.680 film was like two hours forty minutes or something like that, 2798 02:14:34.880 --> 02:14:36.319 but it had all of those scenes in. It had 2799 02:14:36.319 --> 02:14:40.199 those scenes with the guys gunning on the falcon dressed 2800 02:14:40.199 --> 02:14:43.039 in their kind of you know, camouflage, fatigues and stuff, 2801 02:14:43.159 --> 02:14:47.279 and more of them going down on to end or 2802 02:14:47.359 --> 02:14:49.840 you see the guys all sitting behind them. There's a 2803 02:14:49.880 --> 02:14:52.159 couple of shots back there, and you know, he said, 2804 02:14:52.159 --> 02:14:54.079 I actually really liked that version, he said, because it 2805 02:14:54.119 --> 02:14:57.279 made more sense. He then didn't say much more about it. 2806 02:14:57.279 --> 02:14:58.840 I really wanted to kind of prone to see if 2807 02:14:58.840 --> 02:15:00.920 he had like a VHS not cough of it somewhere, 2808 02:15:01.119 --> 02:15:03.000 but we did show me it was the splice that 2809 02:15:03.079 --> 02:15:04.760 he cut the film with, and went up to these 2810 02:15:04.840 --> 02:15:06.960 little office upstairs and there it was the little splice 2811 02:15:07.760 --> 02:15:09.840 and he said, oh, I've got probably half a dozen 2812 02:15:09.920 --> 02:15:12.880 of Revenge of the Jedi T shirts knocking around somewhere. 2813 02:15:13.159 --> 02:15:16.239 Oh my god, we should we go in the loft now? 2814 02:15:16.640 --> 02:15:19.079 And god, yeah, they changed that title so late. I 2815 02:15:19.119 --> 02:15:20.680 mean there was a movie theater I used to go 2816 02:15:20.760 --> 02:15:22.800 to around here that still had a Revenge of the 2817 02:15:22.880 --> 02:15:26.000 Jedi poster in the marquee, you know, in the lobby, 2818 02:15:26.039 --> 02:15:28.319 and I was just like, oh, yeah, like that would 2819 02:15:28.359 --> 02:15:30.800 have been something. And yeah, just this whole like Jedi 2820 02:15:30.880 --> 02:15:33.439 don't take revenge thing. I was like, Okay, I guess 2821 02:15:33.479 --> 02:15:35.960 I can see that. But at the same time, return 2822 02:15:36.119 --> 02:15:37.239 is such a weak title. 2823 02:15:38.159 --> 02:15:40.239 No, you're right, but it fits the movie because it's 2824 02:15:40.279 --> 02:15:41.319 such a nice movie. 2825 02:15:41.920 --> 02:15:44.319 It was going to be return originally as well. 2826 02:15:45.079 --> 02:15:47.640 It doesn't deserve the title Revenge of the Jedi because 2827 02:15:47.680 --> 02:15:49.760 it makes it sound too you know. It's just it's 2828 02:15:49.800 --> 02:15:52.279 a nice movie. So it asked to be return and 2829 02:15:52.399 --> 02:15:55.600 we got Revenge for the third Star Wars, which is. 2830 02:15:55.600 --> 02:15:58.680 A rougher movie. And I love how many people take 2831 02:15:58.760 --> 02:16:01.079 responsibility for that to as well. Like I've spoken to 2832 02:16:01.159 --> 02:16:03.640 Jim Bloom. I haven't heard your interview with Jim, but 2833 02:16:03.760 --> 02:16:06.199 he says, you know, he remembers talking about it, and 2834 02:16:06.359 --> 02:16:08.640 how Kauzandin says that he came up with it, and 2835 02:16:08.720 --> 02:16:11.159 George said it was his idea, you know. And you know, 2836 02:16:11.399 --> 02:16:13.880 I work on big TV shows and big sports events. 2837 02:16:14.039 --> 02:16:15.800 I can't remember who made a decision in the thick 2838 02:16:15.880 --> 02:16:16.039 of it. 2839 02:16:16.159 --> 02:16:16.319 You know. 2840 02:16:16.680 --> 02:16:18.800 Sometimes I'm sure things I've claimed that I've done when 2841 02:16:18.840 --> 02:16:21.960 not my idea. Originally, it was just a little spark 2842 02:16:22.000 --> 02:16:23.439 of an idea that somebody else gave me and I 2843 02:16:23.560 --> 02:16:25.920 ran with it. I remember that there was a cinema 2844 02:16:26.000 --> 02:16:27.800 near us that had that poster up for a little 2845 02:16:27.800 --> 02:16:29.920 while as well, and I remember when I went to 2846 02:16:29.960 --> 02:16:32.840 see it, I was like, I thought it was this 2847 02:16:33.000 --> 02:16:35.879 other movie, And I can imagine those people who were 2848 02:16:35.879 --> 02:16:38.479 at that kind of sweet spot age for Empire going 2849 02:16:38.559 --> 02:16:41.959 into Jedi and seeing the word revenge and thinking, oh, 2850 02:16:42.079 --> 02:16:43.559 this is going to be one hell of a thing. 2851 02:16:43.639 --> 02:16:45.479 This is going to be for us. I'm now fifteen 2852 02:16:45.600 --> 02:16:48.040 or sixteen or whatever they would have been then, and 2853 02:16:48.079 --> 02:16:52.920 then they got this fluffy little jolly all wrapped up 2854 02:16:52.920 --> 02:16:53.719 in a bundle movie. 2855 02:16:54.159 --> 02:16:57.159 It also, Jedi, isn't that it's I can't remember the 2856 02:16:57.319 --> 02:16:59.399 term for this, but it's both a plural and a 2857 02:16:59.559 --> 02:17:02.959 singular or noun. So it's like, is it more than 2858 02:17:03.079 --> 02:17:07.360 one Jedi? Is it the Jedi? Yes, yes, exactly, like 2859 02:17:07.520 --> 02:17:10.879 they've been asked out before. And if we don't know, 2860 02:17:11.239 --> 02:17:13.879 like we know that Yoda's around, we knew that Ben 2861 02:17:14.079 --> 02:17:16.120 was around, Like how many other Jedi are there? So 2862 02:17:16.719 --> 02:17:18.840 it feels very weird when it's like, no, no, Luke's 2863 02:17:18.879 --> 02:17:20.959 the last one. I'm like, I'm sure there are other 2864 02:17:21.079 --> 02:17:23.920 Jedi that are out there someplace, but and I was 2865 02:17:24.000 --> 02:17:26.280 really hoping, like no, no, this is like at the 2866 02:17:26.520 --> 02:17:29.959 final hour, all of these Jedi are going to show 2867 02:17:30.040 --> 02:17:31.440 up and be like, we're here to help you in 2868 02:17:31.520 --> 02:17:34.079 your fight. We're here to help take down the Death Star, 2869 02:17:34.360 --> 02:17:38.399 Invader and the Emperor once and for all. And I 2870 02:17:38.520 --> 02:17:41.159 got to say, as a kid man, when they unmasked Vader, 2871 02:17:41.440 --> 02:17:43.600 it was one of the most disappointing things in my 2872 02:17:43.920 --> 02:17:44.559 entire life. 2873 02:17:45.280 --> 02:17:45.600 Is that you. 2874 02:17:46.040 --> 02:17:48.280 Yeah, after seeing the back of his head in the 2875 02:17:48.559 --> 02:17:50.840 second movie, I was like, Oh my god, this guy 2876 02:17:50.959 --> 02:17:53.920 is gonna be so fucked up. And then it's yeah, Grandpa, 2877 02:17:54.159 --> 02:17:57.520 what are you doing here Sebastian Shaw having those big, 2878 02:17:57.680 --> 02:17:58.600 bushy eyebrows. 2879 02:17:58.639 --> 02:18:01.399 I was like, oh my god, because that's the important thing. 2880 02:18:02.040 --> 02:18:06.159 They removed the eyebrows, because their eyebroads should have been gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 2881 02:18:06.200 --> 02:18:08.559 that unveiling. I think for a lot of people, including 2882 02:18:08.680 --> 02:18:11.840 David Prows, it was a disappointment. You did want to 2883 02:18:11.879 --> 02:18:13.840 see somebody a bit more messed up. But I think 2884 02:18:13.920 --> 02:18:15.680 for years I was a bit scared of that scene 2885 02:18:15.719 --> 02:18:17.399 in Empire where you saw the back of his head. 2886 02:18:18.079 --> 02:18:20.879 And what I do, or what I did i'd probably 2887 02:18:20.879 --> 02:18:22.520 still do to a certain extent, is if I'm scared 2888 02:18:22.520 --> 02:18:24.559 of something, I just sort of turn it into something else. 2889 02:18:24.600 --> 02:18:26.680 And I remember as a kid thinking it looked like 2890 02:18:26.879 --> 02:18:29.159 raspberry ripple ice cream that you can buy here, and 2891 02:18:29.360 --> 02:18:30.559 I done. If that was the thing in the States, 2892 02:18:30.639 --> 02:18:32.879 it was like vanilla ice cream with like this ripple 2893 02:18:33.040 --> 02:18:35.920 thread of raspberry and you get a little tasted of 2894 02:18:35.920 --> 02:18:37.479 a little hit of raspberry, and that's what it looked like. 2895 02:18:37.520 --> 02:18:39.680 It looked like a scoop of that on Vader's head. 2896 02:18:40.000 --> 02:18:42.200 So for years I was I was scared about seeing 2897 02:18:42.879 --> 02:18:45.840 what was on the other side. And when it happened, 2898 02:18:46.280 --> 02:18:47.760 my cousin was next to me and we were sort 2899 02:18:47.760 --> 02:18:49.879 of like getting a little bit closer and just thinking, 2900 02:18:49.959 --> 02:18:52.079 what's going to happen here? And then we both oh, 2901 02:18:53.360 --> 02:18:54.879 that's what it is. It's just an old. 2902 02:18:56.520 --> 02:18:56.959 And I guess. 2903 02:18:57.000 --> 02:18:59.239 We did see the Emperor in the second movie as well, 2904 02:18:59.399 --> 02:19:01.000 and he had the It was cool. It was like 2905 02:19:01.280 --> 02:19:04.840 chimpin monkey eyes. Yeah yeah, and then you could see 2906 02:19:04.920 --> 02:19:08.040 him in person. You're just like, oh, okay, back and 2907 02:19:08.159 --> 02:19:08.479 change it. 2908 02:19:08.600 --> 02:19:11.239 Yet Luke had just taken the mask off, and imagine 2909 02:19:11.239 --> 02:19:12.520 if you'd just taken the mask off and we just 2910 02:19:12.520 --> 02:19:15.520 saw Luke's face just kind of go or maybe he 2911 02:19:15.639 --> 02:19:18.680 looked just like Luke, you know, like the dream sequence 2912 02:19:18.719 --> 02:19:21.440 in Empire maybe is like an old version of Luke. God, 2913 02:19:21.479 --> 02:19:24.600 there's so much potential with that sequence yeah, it feels 2914 02:19:24.639 --> 02:19:25.600 like a lost opportunity. 2915 02:19:26.159 --> 02:19:28.239 And then the poor guy just dies, and the death 2916 02:19:28.280 --> 02:19:30.280 of Yoda and the death of Darth Vader they do 2917 02:19:30.399 --> 02:19:33.000 nothing for me. There's no feeling. I'm just like, Okay, 2918 02:19:33.600 --> 02:19:36.479 poor cross eyed Yoda just faded away. You know, he's 2919 02:19:36.680 --> 02:19:39.040 one of my favorite characters. In the second movie. They 2920 02:19:39.120 --> 02:19:41.159 give him such short shrift in this film. Then he 2921 02:19:41.319 --> 02:19:44.559 just disappears, and then yeah, like we build up to 2922 02:19:45.319 --> 02:19:47.639 Darth Vader and then you go, oh, he's just a 2923 02:19:47.680 --> 02:19:50.120 harmless old man. He's basically the Wizard from the Wizard 2924 02:19:50.159 --> 02:19:52.360 of Oz. You're just like, he's the guy who's pulling 2925 02:19:52.440 --> 02:19:54.360 the levers and everything, and you're just like, how is 2926 02:19:54.520 --> 02:19:57.719 this guy such a threat for the last two films, 2927 02:19:58.079 --> 02:20:01.600 And now you see what a weak old man he was. 2928 02:20:02.600 --> 02:20:04.920 You weren't off completely when you were talking about like 2929 02:20:05.000 --> 02:20:08.239 the return of the Jedi being Jedi as I have 2930 02:20:08.360 --> 02:20:11.440 a podcast Best Movies Never Made, and we had JW. Wrinsler, 2931 02:20:12.319 --> 02:20:16.399 one of the nicest human beings I've ever met, so kind, 2932 02:20:16.559 --> 02:20:19.440 and he was telling us that the original version of Jedi, 2933 02:20:20.440 --> 02:20:23.319 during the ending when Luke has wanted with the Emperor, 2934 02:20:23.479 --> 02:20:27.600 that the ghosts of Obi Wan and Yoda come back 2935 02:20:27.760 --> 02:20:31.920 and help. They're like help defending him against the lightning 2936 02:20:32.000 --> 02:20:35.040 and everything, you know, and then the final, the very. 2937 02:20:35.040 --> 02:20:37.239 Ending, is that they become human again. 2938 02:20:37.959 --> 02:20:39.719 So in a way, that title, the way you were 2939 02:20:39.760 --> 02:20:41.959 thinking about it, there was a version of it where 2940 02:20:42.000 --> 02:20:45.319 it was Returns of the Jedi. In a way when 2941 02:20:45.360 --> 02:20:48.719 you were saying that reminded me of have you seen tweet? 2942 02:20:48.799 --> 02:20:50.360 This could have been going on for years, but I'd 2943 02:20:50.399 --> 02:20:54.319 just been seeing it recently NonStop, someone saying I just 2944 02:20:54.440 --> 02:20:58.440 realized after seventeen years of watching Star Wars. The title 2945 02:20:58.799 --> 02:21:03.559 episode Return of the Jedi refers to Darth Vader's. 2946 02:21:03.200 --> 02:21:05.559 Return as Anakin and not Luke. 2947 02:21:05.879 --> 02:21:08.760 I don't think that's where Lucas intended, but I find 2948 02:21:08.840 --> 02:21:11.719 it interesting because in a way it could make sense. 2949 02:21:12.200 --> 02:21:14.760 It wasn't until later years that that ever occurred to me, 2950 02:21:14.799 --> 02:21:16.639 and I don't know if it was something online that 2951 02:21:16.760 --> 02:21:19.559 sparked that, but yeah, there's that sort of duality. Luke's 2952 02:21:19.639 --> 02:21:22.280 decided he's not going to go to the dark Side. 2953 02:21:22.280 --> 02:21:24.440 He throws his legs over away, the Jedi returned. He's 2954 02:21:24.520 --> 02:21:26.959 now become a Jedi. This is him reaching that kind 2955 02:21:26.959 --> 02:21:32.000 of peak and simultaneously, there's you know, Anakin saving his 2956 02:21:32.159 --> 02:21:34.719 son and getting rid of the baddest guy in the 2957 02:21:34.799 --> 02:21:37.680 universe and chucking him down the vent. So yeah, it 2958 02:21:37.719 --> 02:21:39.680 could be read like that, but I don't think anyone 2959 02:21:39.799 --> 02:21:42.879 talked about that at the time. Maybe for twenty five 2960 02:21:43.000 --> 02:21:43.559 thirty years. 2961 02:21:43.680 --> 02:21:46.840 Yeah, all the information you guys gave me, I didn't 2962 02:21:46.879 --> 02:21:49.559 see that once, but I think that it is fascinating. 2963 02:21:49.600 --> 02:21:51.959 I saw that tweet recently in the last few weeks 2964 02:21:52.040 --> 02:21:54.360 getting ready for this show. It's just been popping up 2965 02:21:54.479 --> 02:21:55.399 everywhere all of a sudden. 2966 02:21:55.399 --> 02:21:56.559 I'm like, oh, weird. 2967 02:21:56.600 --> 02:21:57.959 And by the way, I mean, I don't know how 2968 02:21:58.360 --> 02:22:01.360 did Darth getting split in half going down one of 2969 02:22:01.399 --> 02:22:02.760 those things like the Emperor? 2970 02:22:02.879 --> 02:22:04.200 How do they always survive that? 2971 02:22:04.840 --> 02:22:05.200 Somehow? 2972 02:22:05.280 --> 02:22:06.319 Palpatine returned. 2973 02:22:06.959 --> 02:22:11.520 Well, even Luke's lightsaber apparently survived that as well, because 2974 02:22:11.559 --> 02:22:16.360 that little orange creature and was like, oh, here's Luke's lightsaber, 2975 02:22:16.399 --> 02:22:18.520 and I'm like, this is the blue one. This isn't 2976 02:22:18.520 --> 02:22:19.440 the green one oak? 2977 02:22:19.799 --> 02:22:22.319 And what was it? Like, that's a story for another time. 2978 02:22:22.559 --> 02:22:25.280 Yeah, that will mean any of the sequels. I do 2979 02:22:25.520 --> 02:22:28.360 like the person who gives the ted talk quote unquote 2980 02:22:28.360 --> 02:22:31.000 about how all the Star Wars movies have the wrong titles. 2981 02:22:31.280 --> 02:22:31.760 What happens? 2982 02:22:31.799 --> 02:22:35.600 In episode one we meet Anakin Skywalker The Rise of Skywalker. 2983 02:22:36.239 --> 02:22:38.959 Years later, we find out that Palpatine, leader of the Sith, 2984 02:22:39.040 --> 02:22:42.200 have ordered an army to destroy the Jedi. Revenge of 2985 02:22:42.280 --> 02:22:45.559 the Sith. In episode three, Order sixty six happens and 2986 02:22:45.600 --> 02:22:49.920 the Clones Attack Attack of the Clones. In episode four, 2987 02:22:50.040 --> 02:22:51.799 ovi Wan teaches Luke that it is time for the 2988 02:22:51.879 --> 02:22:55.680 Jedi to return. Return of the Jedi. In episode five, 2989 02:22:55.840 --> 02:22:59.159 Yoda teaches Luke how to use the Force. The Force awakens. 2990 02:23:00.000 --> 02:23:03.239 Episode six, both Yoda and Anak and die, which makes 2991 02:23:03.319 --> 02:23:07.239 Luke the last Jedi. After the Empire has destroyed, a 2992 02:23:07.319 --> 02:23:10.840 new empire comes. The Empire strikes back. Come on guys. 2993 02:23:11.239 --> 02:23:14.399 An episode eight, Luke train's ray and then sacrifices himself 2994 02:23:14.479 --> 02:23:18.360 to give the Resistance a new hope. Finally, in episode nine, 2995 02:23:18.440 --> 02:23:22.920 Palpatine returns from the dead, making him the Phantom Menace. 2996 02:23:23.479 --> 02:23:25.879 Thank you for coming to my ted talk lucasfilm hire 2997 02:23:25.920 --> 02:23:26.319 me please. 2998 02:23:26.799 --> 02:23:27.680 Oh I never thought of that. 2999 02:23:27.799 --> 02:23:30.479 Yeah, some of them did that with the Last Apes trilogy. 3000 02:23:30.600 --> 02:23:34.479 Also that all the titles are for those Because I'm 3001 02:23:34.479 --> 02:23:35.440 completely confused. 3002 02:23:35.479 --> 02:23:38.760 What movie is which now Jesus, Yeah, well, I'm confused 3003 02:23:38.799 --> 02:23:41.920 by the sequel trilogy because I'm just like which one's 3004 02:23:42.000 --> 02:23:46.040 force awakens, which one's last. I just know that I 3005 02:23:46.200 --> 02:23:49.319 don't like any of those. I'm not like some sort 3006 02:23:49.360 --> 02:23:51.760 of misogynists where I'm just like, I can't handle Daisy 3007 02:23:51.840 --> 02:23:55.639 Ridley in this role. I just felt like, yeah, yeah, no, 3008 02:23:55.799 --> 02:23:58.319 I like her a lot too. I really wish that 3009 02:23:58.479 --> 02:24:01.639 she had joined forces with Kren like that moment that 3010 02:24:01.760 --> 02:24:05.120 I think we all talked about. Had she gone with him, 3011 02:24:05.159 --> 02:24:07.399 it would have set the whole trilogy in a way 3012 02:24:07.760 --> 02:24:11.719 better place and shown that conflict because instead, a good 3013 02:24:11.840 --> 02:24:14.399 character starts good and ends good and as good all 3014 02:24:14.399 --> 02:24:17.120 the way through, as opposed to somebody who actually has 3015 02:24:17.239 --> 02:24:22.799 a moment of doubt and then redeems themselves complication. Yeah yeah, 3016 02:24:23.000 --> 02:24:24.920 and Ben could have been that, but he wasn't. 3017 02:24:25.639 --> 02:24:27.600 But you see those posts online. You know, how come 3018 02:24:27.719 --> 02:24:30.159 this happens and then that happens and then this didn't happen. 3019 02:24:30.479 --> 02:24:33.920 And the answer is always bad writing. It's never about 3020 02:24:34.079 --> 02:24:38.079 some expositional thing or character thing. It's just somebody didn't 3021 02:24:38.120 --> 02:24:40.040 think about it at the time, and they just forgot 3022 02:24:40.680 --> 02:24:43.120 what they had. In some cases, I'm able to sort 3023 02:24:43.120 --> 02:24:48.520 of compartmentalize those films as sequels, as maybe somebody has 3024 02:24:48.600 --> 02:24:52.120 a go at rebooting Star Wars and this is the result. 3025 02:24:52.239 --> 02:24:54.280 I don't have to hold them as some sort of canon. 3026 02:24:54.319 --> 02:24:57.639 I'm not part of a religion, as a lot of 3027 02:24:57.680 --> 02:24:59.159 people seem to think it is the case. But I 3028 02:24:59.280 --> 02:25:01.799 experienced those films, particularly that first one, The Force Awakens, 3029 02:25:01.840 --> 02:25:04.520 through my daughters, who were quite young at the time. 3030 02:25:04.639 --> 02:25:07.440 How old is that film now? Yeah, just remember them 3031 02:25:07.520 --> 02:25:09.840 kind of you know, skipping down the high street here 3032 02:25:10.399 --> 02:25:12.319 where I live and wanting to go to the Disney 3033 02:25:12.360 --> 02:25:13.639 store and buy an Action figure. And I thought that 3034 02:25:13.719 --> 02:25:15.600 was great, you know, I thought fantastic, this is their 3035 02:25:15.680 --> 02:25:17.799 Star Wars. And I lived the first time I saw it. 3036 02:25:17.879 --> 02:25:20.120 I was with my cynical forty year old mates. Okay, 3037 02:25:20.200 --> 02:25:24.840 so we're talking, oh, ten years ago. I'm fifteen next year, 3038 02:25:24.920 --> 02:25:27.319 so blummey and I remember, it's all coming out, just 3039 02:25:27.399 --> 02:25:30.280 going a lot to process, you know, we're just trying 3040 02:25:30.319 --> 02:25:32.120 to find a way to like it. And then that 3041 02:25:32.200 --> 02:25:33.559 second one, I didn't go on with a torn of 3042 02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:36.239 third one, I kind of just gave up on. Yeah, well, 3043 02:25:36.399 --> 02:25:38.559 I was really pleased that my kids enjoyed it, and again, 3044 02:25:38.639 --> 02:25:40.920 like you see another generation of people into it. And 3045 02:25:41.399 --> 02:25:43.799 you know, I went to Star Wars celebration here in 3046 02:25:43.879 --> 02:25:45.760 London a couple of years ago. I did a panel 3047 02:25:45.959 --> 02:25:48.000 about and OR about the visual effects and OR for 3048 02:25:48.079 --> 02:25:51.319 ILM and what was fantastic about that was just seeing 3049 02:25:51.360 --> 02:25:54.319 all the different generations of people and all the different 3050 02:25:54.360 --> 02:25:56.639 cost plays, the effort the people put in, and the 3051 02:25:56.719 --> 02:26:00.520 love they have for these tiny little moments in the films. 3052 02:26:00.559 --> 02:26:02.479 Like one guy, one of the best costumes I saw. 3053 02:26:02.559 --> 02:26:05.040 He was Obi Wan, but as a ghost, so he 3054 02:26:05.159 --> 02:26:07.879 had this blue neck cut and kind of stitched all 3055 02:26:07.920 --> 02:26:10.079 the way around him and he's appeared to glow as 3056 02:26:10.079 --> 02:26:12.079 he was walking along and that's just like, you know, 3057 02:26:12.520 --> 02:26:15.239 it's like two minutes in one of the movies. But yeah, 3058 02:26:15.239 --> 02:26:17.159 I love that about Star Wars that it's got. There's 3059 02:26:17.200 --> 02:26:19.120 so much of it now that so many people can 3060 02:26:19.200 --> 02:26:22.479 find what they love within it. And I've never been 3061 02:26:22.520 --> 02:26:24.680 one of those people who wants to defend or argue, 3062 02:26:25.559 --> 02:26:28.440 you know, a particular point in the movie. Just you know, 3063 02:26:28.479 --> 02:26:30.239 if you love it, great, if you don't, just go 3064 02:26:30.319 --> 02:26:31.319 and watch something else. 3065 02:26:32.040 --> 02:26:34.319 I hear you. I like a lot of movies people 3066 02:26:34.559 --> 02:26:37.000 can't understand why I like. But you know, that's why 3067 02:26:37.000 --> 02:26:40.079 I'll never argue with people. Like when The acle I 3068 02:26:40.159 --> 02:26:41.799 came out, everyone's ripping it apart. 3069 02:26:41.920 --> 02:26:44.639 I just get my opinions to myself. 3070 02:26:44.799 --> 02:26:46.680 You know, it's like I want to go on there 3071 02:26:47.360 --> 02:26:49.879 and rip things apart. But I do wish they would 3072 02:26:49.920 --> 02:26:52.479 have went with the Duel of Fates draft instead of 3073 02:26:52.600 --> 02:26:54.680 Rise of Skywalk. I just thought that was a more 3074 02:26:54.840 --> 02:26:59.319 fitting finale to that trilogy. There was just this great 3075 02:26:59.840 --> 02:27:01.920 I don't know. It was like Gray with this dual 3076 02:27:02.000 --> 02:27:06.559 lightsaber fighting Kylo Ren with his crossguard lightsaber. It just 3077 02:27:06.600 --> 02:27:08.399 seemed like such a visual in my head for the 3078 02:27:08.479 --> 02:27:11.799 poster and just I don't know, man, instead of you know, 3079 02:27:11.959 --> 02:27:14.159 Kylo Ren turned into a good guy and then. 3080 02:27:14.200 --> 02:27:15.559 Just I don't know. I found that movie to be 3081 02:27:15.719 --> 02:27:17.719 kind of a mess. 3082 02:27:17.840 --> 02:27:20.000 Maybe years from now, when I returned to it, I'll 3083 02:27:20.040 --> 02:27:23.360 appreciate it, because that happens with me with certain If 3084 02:27:23.399 --> 02:27:26.079 I don't like something now years later, I could go 3085 02:27:26.200 --> 02:27:28.959 and appreciate it. But them getting rid of that draft, 3086 02:27:29.040 --> 02:27:31.079 I just always felt like, I don't know why they did. 3087 02:27:31.200 --> 02:27:33.680 I thought it was really cool, but because they fired 3088 02:27:33.760 --> 02:27:34.879 the director who wrote it. 3089 02:27:35.000 --> 02:27:37.200 Now they had to get rid of I thought a 3090 02:27:37.280 --> 02:27:41.200 really good story, and then instead we got the warps 3091 02:27:41.680 --> 02:27:43.920 chased and the movie is really cool. But that's all 3092 02:27:43.959 --> 02:27:46.840 I remember. I just watched it once and I was 3093 02:27:47.000 --> 02:27:50.280 just kind of like bummed out by it. And then 3094 02:27:50.440 --> 02:27:53.239 especially years later getting my hands on that draft and 3095 02:27:53.319 --> 02:27:55.000 then I read it and I'm like, oh my god. 3096 02:27:54.920 --> 02:27:55.680 This is great. 3097 02:27:56.239 --> 02:27:58.280 I have to get hold of it. You just brought 3098 02:27:58.319 --> 02:28:01.280 up a good point. Then they all watching you dislike them. 3099 02:28:01.319 --> 02:28:02.719 In years later you fall in love with the me, 3100 02:28:02.799 --> 02:28:04.559 you know, for me, I guess later on it would 3101 02:28:04.559 --> 02:28:06.280 be a good example of that. But I think that's 3102 02:28:06.319 --> 02:28:09.719 what's unique about these three original Star Wars films is 3103 02:28:09.760 --> 02:28:12.280 I've loved them in every phase of my life, you know, 3104 02:28:12.399 --> 02:28:14.399 since I first saw them, through my teens and my 3105 02:28:14.520 --> 02:28:17.399 twenties and my thirds. Now I'm in my late forties, 3106 02:28:17.440 --> 02:28:19.280 and I still love those movies, and still I don't 3107 02:28:19.399 --> 02:28:21.600 I probably don't watch them once a year anymore like 3108 02:28:21.639 --> 02:28:23.760 I used to a few times a year. I don't 3109 02:28:23.760 --> 02:28:26.079 think I've seen Star Wars for good three or four 3110 02:28:26.159 --> 02:28:28.959 years now. So the screening next week this week's going. 3111 02:28:28.920 --> 02:28:29.399 To be very good. 3112 02:28:30.040 --> 02:28:32.719 But I've always found something to like about them through 3113 02:28:32.719 --> 02:28:35.239 all the phases of my life. And that's pretty unique. 3114 02:28:35.280 --> 02:28:38.319 And I think it is really bloody hard to make 3115 02:28:38.399 --> 02:28:41.040 these movies and make a good one of these movies. 3116 02:28:41.520 --> 02:28:43.479 You know, all the tools have been there in the 3117 02:28:43.559 --> 02:28:47.000 past and it has not been achieved. And it just 3118 02:28:47.079 --> 02:28:48.920 goes to show what a miracle and Or is, and 3119 02:28:49.000 --> 02:28:52.000 what a miracle Empi Strikes Back is and the original 3120 02:28:52.079 --> 02:28:53.840 Star Wars is. You know, you think of the confluence 3121 02:28:53.879 --> 02:28:55.920 of all those things that had to come together, all 3122 02:28:56.000 --> 02:29:00.760 those artists, the timing, at the politic call landscape at 3123 02:29:00.760 --> 02:29:02.920 the time, the need to want to have something that 3124 02:29:03.079 --> 02:29:06.079 was fresh and new and exciting and different. You know, 3125 02:29:06.239 --> 02:29:09.600 it's pretty amazing that it happened. And hey, we happened 3126 02:29:09.639 --> 02:29:11.959 to be on Earth at the time they were released. 3127 02:29:12.040 --> 02:29:14.600 Isn't that pretty amazing We were here for Star Wars. 3128 02:29:14.719 --> 02:29:17.319 David Bowie, the Rolling Stokes. You know, it's kind of crazy, 3129 02:29:17.399 --> 02:29:19.239 really Indiana general. 3130 02:29:19.280 --> 02:29:21.879 It's you know, just so much cool stuff growing up 3131 02:29:21.959 --> 02:29:23.799 with and experiencing. 3132 02:29:23.159 --> 02:29:24.000 For the first time. 3133 02:29:24.159 --> 02:29:27.959 You know. One of my shout out to Waz He 3134 02:29:28.239 --> 02:29:31.319 is a hypnotherapist right used to be an editor and 3135 02:29:31.840 --> 02:29:34.479 he recently got a message from somebody to ask if 3136 02:29:34.520 --> 02:29:37.639 you can hypnotize me to make me forget Star Wars 3137 02:29:38.360 --> 02:29:40.280 because I want to see it again for the first time. 3138 02:29:40.600 --> 02:29:43.360 He said, give it a go. I won't pass any 3139 02:29:43.440 --> 02:29:45.799 judgment on that, but I do love that idea of 3140 02:29:45.959 --> 02:29:47.840 just being able to have your memory wipe to re 3141 02:29:48.000 --> 02:29:50.319 experience Star Wars all over again. But then you'd have 3142 02:29:50.399 --> 02:29:52.360 to wipe so much else. Wouldn't you all the things 3143 02:29:52.440 --> 02:29:55.879 that reference it over the years and lean into it. 3144 02:29:55.920 --> 02:29:58.079 Wouldn't that be great to watch it again for the 3145 02:29:58.159 --> 02:29:58.600 first time. 3146 02:29:59.239 --> 02:30:01.120 When we talked about a New Hope, one of my 3147 02:30:01.200 --> 02:30:03.440 co hosts for that was Rob Saint Mary, who really 3148 02:30:04.079 --> 02:30:07.559 hadn't watched Star Wars and so it was very new 3149 02:30:07.639 --> 02:30:09.399 for him, and he just knew so much of it 3150 02:30:09.479 --> 02:30:11.559 from the culture, like you were saying, like all of 3151 02:30:11.639 --> 02:30:14.799 the references, like I'm surprised that we have gone for 3152 02:30:15.319 --> 02:30:19.239 almost two hours. We haven't done like every other group 3153 02:30:19.360 --> 02:30:21.559 of men talking about Return of the Jedi and just 3154 02:30:21.799 --> 02:30:24.760 drooled about Princess Leigh and the slave girl outfit. I'm 3155 02:30:24.920 --> 02:30:27.840 very proud of us because like that comes back all 3156 02:30:27.959 --> 02:30:32.040 the time. I mean, even that friends with their fetish 3157 02:30:32.159 --> 02:30:34.719 for that thing, and I'm just like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Yai. 3158 02:30:35.079 --> 02:30:36.920 But like, yeah, that's a major part of the culture 3159 02:30:36.959 --> 02:30:38.559 as well. Like now you see when you go to 3160 02:30:38.639 --> 02:30:42.120 like the Star Wars conventions and stuff, how many women 3161 02:30:42.200 --> 02:30:44.879 are dressed up like princess Ly and her slave garb. 3162 02:30:45.159 --> 02:30:46.840 You know, it's pretty phenomenal. 3163 02:30:47.440 --> 02:30:47.600 You know. 3164 02:30:47.680 --> 02:30:49.479 I think that's another example of what we were talking 3165 02:30:49.520 --> 02:30:52.360 about earlier where it doesn't fit the character. You think 3166 02:30:52.399 --> 02:30:55.520 about Empire and she's feisty and she's finding back, Okay, 3167 02:30:55.559 --> 02:30:58.639 she's falling in love with and Solo and you know 3168 02:30:58.719 --> 02:31:00.680 he's been taken off and I love you, i know, 3169 02:31:00.799 --> 02:31:02.920 and all of that stuff. But to see her just 3170 02:31:03.000 --> 02:31:06.000 sat there in front of Jabba just not saying I'm 3171 02:31:06.040 --> 02:31:08.920 doing anything. You just think, where is the fire? Where's 3172 02:31:08.920 --> 02:31:12.879 the fire gone? What has happened in the interim here? Yeah, 3173 02:31:12.879 --> 02:31:14.680 I'm sure it was a sexual awakening for a lot 3174 02:31:14.719 --> 02:31:19.600 of young men, But it's the thing that feels the 3175 02:31:19.840 --> 02:31:21.719 most out of place to me, I think in the 3176 02:31:21.760 --> 02:31:22.719 whole of that trilogy. 3177 02:31:23.600 --> 02:31:26.319 Yeah, because she was supposed to be doing something else, 3178 02:31:26.360 --> 02:31:28.799 and that makes sense now she's not really doing much there, 3179 02:31:28.799 --> 02:31:30.719 and also like no one's like paying it you know, 3180 02:31:30.879 --> 02:31:33.079 like Luke doesn't even pay her no mind. 3181 02:31:33.559 --> 02:31:36.120 It was like, yo, what do you now? 3182 02:31:36.239 --> 02:31:40.280 He's just the stoic and doing his thing. And Hans says, 3183 02:31:40.280 --> 02:31:42.879 where's Ley and she goes, I'm here, and that's it. 3184 02:31:43.040 --> 02:31:43.680 That's all we get. 3185 02:31:44.000 --> 02:31:44.159 You know. 3186 02:31:44.319 --> 02:31:46.319 Obviously she does strangle him in the end, and that 3187 02:31:46.520 --> 02:31:48.000 is a great moment that she gets through that, and 3188 02:31:48.079 --> 02:31:49.840 carry would talk about that in interviews with you know, 3189 02:31:49.959 --> 02:31:52.200 she hated or she loved Jabba, but she hated the 3190 02:31:52.639 --> 02:31:54.239 what did she call it, the mung in the corner 3191 02:31:54.239 --> 02:31:57.079 of his mouth, and she got to strangle him in 3192 02:31:57.079 --> 02:32:00.319 the end was great. But yeah, it's a difficult topic, 3193 02:32:00.440 --> 02:32:02.920 isn't it, because so much has changed since then. And 3194 02:32:03.159 --> 02:32:04.959 I can kind of see what they're harkening back to 3195 02:32:05.120 --> 02:32:08.959 the whole kind of Arabian kind of look and the 3196 02:32:09.040 --> 02:32:13.719 Flash Gordon thing, and I mean Nilo Rhodashumiri designed that costume, 3197 02:32:13.760 --> 02:32:15.799 and I think George initially said, no way, we can't 3198 02:32:15.879 --> 02:32:18.399 do that, and he kept sort of pushing George all 3199 02:32:18.440 --> 02:32:20.680 the time with these ideas, and eventually he kind of 3200 02:32:20.719 --> 02:32:22.879 went for it, and then I think he he almost 3201 02:32:23.479 --> 02:32:25.559 regrets it, you know, And I think it was Kenna 3202 02:32:25.680 --> 02:32:27.120 wasn't it said they were never going to make an 3203 02:32:27.120 --> 02:32:30.600 action figure of her like that. Oh, I ain't know that. 3204 02:32:30.799 --> 02:32:33.159 And two years later as Bro did one. But it's 3205 02:32:33.200 --> 02:32:35.120 the bit that, you know, I've got three daughters. If 3206 02:32:35.120 --> 02:32:37.239 I'm watching that movie, they said to me, I think 3207 02:32:37.239 --> 02:32:39.159 it was about five years ago. So it's your birthday today. 3208 02:32:39.280 --> 02:32:40.680 What movie do you want to watch? So, oh, let's 3209 02:32:40.680 --> 02:32:43.399 watch with Tanage. I was probably the most family friendly 3210 02:32:43.959 --> 02:32:46.760 of the three, you know. And we're watching and that 3211 02:32:46.840 --> 02:32:48.639 bit came on, and I'm looking at my three girls, 3212 02:32:48.719 --> 02:32:50.200 you know who at the time, two of them are 3213 02:32:50.239 --> 02:32:53.239 developing into young women, and I did feel a bit shitty. 3214 02:32:54.000 --> 02:32:56.079 Maybe that's a fan edit that needs to be done. 3215 02:32:56.760 --> 02:32:59.360 They covered up with Daryl Hannah's but in Splash. I'm 3216 02:32:59.360 --> 02:33:01.479 surprised they haven't done the same thing for Return of 3217 02:33:01.520 --> 02:33:05.200 the jub Oh. Yeah, digitally made her hair longer and 3218 02:33:05.319 --> 02:33:08.360 it looks awful. Whoever did the special effects for it 3219 02:33:08.479 --> 02:33:10.399 did not know what they were doing. It looks like 3220 02:33:10.479 --> 02:33:12.399 she's wearing a pair of panties made out of fur. 3221 02:33:13.360 --> 02:33:15.479 In defense of the effects artists, they probably did know 3222 02:33:15.520 --> 02:33:16.959 what they were doing. They just didn't have the time 3223 02:33:17.000 --> 02:33:17.760 All the money to do. 3224 02:33:18.840 --> 02:33:20.680 All right, guys, let's take another break in. We're going 3225 02:33:20.760 --> 02:33:22.719 to play a preview for next week's show. Right after 3226 02:33:22.799 --> 02:33:30.479 these brief messages, after all. 3227 02:33:30.440 --> 02:33:32.559 These years, I thought I knew you, but it turned 3228 02:33:32.600 --> 02:33:33.520 out to be a stranger. 3229 02:33:34.319 --> 02:33:38.040 We're fighting for our lives, and my family must survive. 3230 02:33:51.040 --> 02:33:55.159 Yes, the most shocking experience of their lives. Doubly shocking 3231 02:33:55.239 --> 02:33:56.600 because it can happen to you. 3232 02:34:01.680 --> 02:34:04.879 Still, right my trailer, what are you gonna do? 3233 02:34:05.040 --> 02:34:05.719 Cola cops? 3234 02:34:06.159 --> 02:34:08.959 They're busy with the new highway patrol? 3235 02:34:10.200 --> 02:34:15.319 All right, The lawless are on the loose, making it 3236 02:34:15.479 --> 02:34:18.440 necessary for law abiding citizens to make their own law. 3237 02:34:19.159 --> 02:34:21.360 I could going fire a shadow over their heads. Maybe 3238 02:34:21.399 --> 02:34:35.559 that'll upset them. Right, there are no civilians. We are 3239 02:34:35.600 --> 02:34:36.360 all at war. 3240 02:34:45.639 --> 02:34:50.479 Give me, I'm good with the I'll stay here and 3241 02:34:50.559 --> 02:34:51.200 I'll kill them. 3242 02:34:51.719 --> 02:34:55.920 This is civilization's jungle after the jackals of society have 3243 02:34:56.159 --> 02:34:59.680 ruthlessly ravaged it, ending the world of decency. 3244 02:35:07.319 --> 02:35:22.239 I killed two men. 3245 02:35:23.479 --> 02:35:25.520 I tried to kill them too, but I missed. 3246 02:35:25.760 --> 02:35:27.360 I just wasn't a good enough shot. 3247 02:35:45.360 --> 02:35:47.120 That's right. We'll be back next week when they look 3248 02:35:47.159 --> 02:35:49.639 at panic in the year zero. Until then, I want 3249 02:35:49.639 --> 02:35:51.879 to thank my co hosts, Stephen and Jamie. So, Jamie, 3250 02:35:51.879 --> 02:35:53.000 what's the latest with you, sir? 3251 02:35:53.639 --> 02:35:55.799 Still doing the podcast? The film you mention this podcast. 3252 02:35:56.040 --> 02:35:59.120 I'm just in the process of editing episode one hundred 3253 02:35:59.120 --> 02:36:02.040 and twenty eight, and funnily enough, it's an episode that 3254 02:36:02.040 --> 02:36:03.520 I'm just trying to throw out there at the moment 3255 02:36:03.520 --> 02:36:06.200 because I'm so busy. It's an interview from ten years 3256 02:36:06.239 --> 02:36:10.559 ago with Anthony Forrest, who played not only the deleted 3257 02:36:10.719 --> 02:36:13.159 Fixer who was one of Luke's friends at Toshi Station 3258 02:36:13.280 --> 02:36:15.319 from the original film. We also played the move along 3259 02:36:15.760 --> 02:36:19.200 Stormtrooper and there's some great stories about him traveling out 3260 02:36:19.239 --> 02:36:23.120 to Tunisia and getting drunk on champagne with Mark Hamill 3261 02:36:23.159 --> 02:36:25.200 on the way back and sticking stickers all over a 3262 02:36:25.280 --> 02:36:27.680 sleeping Alec Guinness I think he talks about at one point. 3263 02:36:28.559 --> 02:36:30.879 So yeah, still doing the podcast and working on this. 3264 02:36:31.000 --> 02:36:35.040 Joe Alves, Jaws production designer, the camera's production designed lots 3265 02:36:35.040 --> 02:36:38.200 of stories from Joe we've been compiling over the last 3266 02:36:38.239 --> 02:36:41.399 few years. We're out to Martha's Vineyard next week to 3267 02:36:41.520 --> 02:36:44.239 shoot more of that. Thanks to the gofund me that 3268 02:36:44.280 --> 02:36:46.479 I started. If anybody's listening and wants to help us. 3269 02:36:46.559 --> 02:36:48.360 Then the go fund me is still active. If you 3270 02:36:48.440 --> 02:36:51.520 look for not your Average Joe or Jamie Benning and 3271 02:36:51.639 --> 02:36:53.959 go fund me, you'll find it. I just keep chipping 3272 02:36:53.959 --> 02:36:56.000 away at things that I love to do, so yeah, 3273 02:36:56.040 --> 02:36:58.520 you can find me as film We mentories pretty much 3274 02:36:58.639 --> 02:37:03.319 everywhere online. Also, my return of the Jedi Unauthorized Timeline book, 3275 02:37:03.319 --> 02:37:06.200 which you mentioned earlier on is still available. Myself and 3276 02:37:06.360 --> 02:37:09.399 Justin Berger released that for the fortieth anniversary. So it 3277 02:37:09.520 --> 02:37:12.360 chronicles the film, as it says, from seventy six to 3278 02:37:12.479 --> 02:37:14.879 twenty twenty three, because you know, that's the first time 3279 02:37:14.959 --> 02:37:17.239 Jabba the Het has talked about and we go through 3280 02:37:17.319 --> 02:37:19.600 the whole process sort of listing out all of the 3281 02:37:19.680 --> 02:37:22.159 dates and everything that happened on those dates. And this 3282 02:37:22.319 --> 02:37:24.479 is information you can find in Rinseler's book and in 3283 02:37:24.600 --> 02:37:26.719 some of the other books as well. But you know, 3284 02:37:26.840 --> 02:37:29.559 shown in this format is quite interesting that you'll see like, oh, 3285 02:37:29.600 --> 02:37:31.959 there was an Ewok costume test on the day that 3286 02:37:32.079 --> 02:37:34.760 the Sandstorm scene was shot, and you know, you see 3287 02:37:34.799 --> 02:37:36.319 the film in a kind of different light, and then 3288 02:37:36.319 --> 02:37:38.479 all the way through production, post production, all the way 3289 02:37:38.520 --> 02:37:42.120 up to its anniversary. So that's available on Amazon pretty 3290 02:37:42.200 --> 02:37:45.520 much everywhere you can get Amazon. Like, here's an examplele 3291 02:37:46.079 --> 02:37:48.559 we recreated a load of call sheets as well. Some 3292 02:37:48.680 --> 02:37:52.360 of the pages are just like call sheets, listing out 3293 02:37:52.399 --> 02:37:54.399 who was on set that day, what's the date today? 3294 02:37:54.639 --> 02:37:57.639 On eighth of June. Right, let's have a looked. So 3295 02:37:57.840 --> 02:38:00.639 here we are in June. Is the and entry for 3296 02:38:00.719 --> 02:38:03.479 the eighth. There's one for the ninth. Oh, there we go, 3297 02:38:03.559 --> 02:38:05.840 there's one for the seventh. The Hollywood Reporter announces Jedi 3298 02:38:05.959 --> 02:38:08.840 inned seventy million in twelve days. That was June seventh, 3299 02:38:08.959 --> 02:38:11.520 ninet eighty three. If we go back to eighty two June, 3300 02:38:11.559 --> 02:38:14.760 they've probably won during production here, so the ninth of June, 3301 02:38:14.799 --> 02:38:18.040 the Jedi Creature Shop schedule on those days had Tony 3302 02:38:18.239 --> 02:38:22.680 and Randy skin rancor whatever that means. And then like 3303 02:38:22.760 --> 02:38:24.879 I put a couple of bits of my interviews in there. 3304 02:38:25.200 --> 02:38:27.840 I've got diaries of the guys that worked on Jabba 3305 02:38:27.879 --> 02:38:30.959 that have never been seen before. They're not like deep diaries, 3306 02:38:31.040 --> 02:38:35.360 but you know, Dave Barkley says like here is so 3307 02:38:35.479 --> 02:38:37.760 there's these entriesome day. That's a shot that mattered the 3308 02:38:37.799 --> 02:38:39.840 swords of Dave and the Jabba there, but it says 3309 02:38:39.920 --> 02:38:43.040 first day Elstria rather at eight am. Creature Finger extends 3310 02:38:43.079 --> 02:38:46.079 in Stuart's lab and check out Jabber Toby and I 3311 02:38:46.200 --> 02:38:48.719 get inside. It's okay, and we meet with Robert Watson, 3312 02:38:48.760 --> 02:38:51.959 Doug and you know, just little bits that you wouldn't 3313 02:38:52.000 --> 02:38:55.120 have known about before because everyone's got a story, right. 3314 02:38:55.799 --> 02:38:57.719 But yeah, it's like you can get the paperback version 3315 02:38:57.760 --> 02:38:59.280 for like twenty bucks on Amazon. 3316 02:39:00.079 --> 02:39:01.799 Fantastic and Steven, how about yourself? 3317 02:39:02.280 --> 02:39:05.600 Yeah, I do a podcast called Best Movies Never Made? 3318 02:39:05.799 --> 02:39:09.239 Right now, I guess when this episode comes out, nearing 3319 02:39:09.319 --> 02:39:12.079 towards the end of an epic going through all the 3320 02:39:12.200 --> 02:39:15.600 unmade Superman movies. We just did the Mario Puzo draft, 3321 02:39:16.559 --> 02:39:19.639 and then we did the original version of Superman three, 3322 02:39:20.799 --> 02:39:25.319 and then we're gonna be doing Lives and Reborn and I. 3323 02:39:25.319 --> 02:39:28.120 Wrote a huge article about that years ago, and yeah, 3324 02:39:28.159 --> 02:39:30.959 it took me forever to track down some of those scripts. 3325 02:39:31.040 --> 02:39:34.000 Holy shit, Yeah, dude, it's massive because I do all 3326 02:39:34.040 --> 02:39:36.479 the outlines and oh my god. Yeah, well you thought 3327 02:39:36.520 --> 02:39:39.319 that Weur Batman episode was the longest. I think this 3328 02:39:39.520 --> 02:39:42.920 is gonna beat it. So you can check that out. 3329 02:39:42.959 --> 02:39:45.719 And I want to see more shark content. I know 3330 02:39:45.959 --> 02:39:48.760 Jaws fiftieth documentary is coming out. I got a bunch 3331 02:39:48.840 --> 02:39:53.120 Shutter Shark Exploitation, and I'm excited for Jamie's documentary on 3332 02:39:53.200 --> 02:39:56.680 Joe Alves because there's so many things we couldn't really 3333 02:39:56.760 --> 02:39:59.079 get into Joe olves a lot in the documentary because 3334 02:39:59.159 --> 02:40:01.520 we have to touch on Jaws, where we have hundreds 3335 02:40:01.559 --> 02:40:03.479 of other shark movies to get to. But one of 3336 02:40:03.520 --> 02:40:05.479 my favorite things about Joe Alves is when you watch 3337 02:40:05.559 --> 02:40:08.360 the opening of Jaws, when they're running by those fences 3338 02:40:08.440 --> 02:40:11.200 in the beginning, like, that's all Joe production design. 3339 02:40:11.319 --> 02:40:15.120 He puts those fences up. You now, the Dude's freaking amazing. 3340 02:40:15.239 --> 02:40:17.920 So I can't wait to see Jamie's documentary because I 3341 02:40:18.200 --> 02:40:20.680 just love Joe Alves and there's so much I don't 3342 02:40:20.680 --> 02:40:23.399 think people appreciate or even know about the guy. But yeah, 3343 02:40:23.399 --> 02:40:25.360 if you want to see a cool shark documentary about 3344 02:40:25.399 --> 02:40:29.319 shark movies, check out Shark's Ploitation on Shutter and just 3345 02:40:29.440 --> 02:40:31.159 the podcast in that. At the moment, I'm working on 3346 02:40:31.280 --> 02:40:33.200 something new, but I don't think I can announce it yet. 3347 02:40:34.000 --> 02:40:37.040 Hopefully going to be finishing this summer, but yeah, you 3348 02:40:37.120 --> 02:40:40.239 can follow the podcast on Twitter and Blue Sky Now 3349 02:40:40.360 --> 02:40:43.719 and Instagram and all that to see concept art from 3350 02:40:43.719 --> 02:40:45.040 all the movies we talk about. 3351 02:40:45.840 --> 02:40:47.680 Well, thank you again guys for being on the show. 3352 02:40:47.760 --> 02:40:49.559 Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to hear 3353 02:40:49.559 --> 02:40:51.079 more of me shooting off my mouth, check out some 3354 02:40:51.159 --> 02:40:52.840 of the other shows that I work on. They are 3355 02:40:52.879 --> 02:40:56.000 all available at Wadingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our 3356 02:40:56.040 --> 02:40:58.680 Patreon community. If you want to join the community, visit 3357 02:40:58.760 --> 02:41:02.079 patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get 3358 02:41:02.159 --> 02:41:04.479 helps Projection Booth take over the galaxy 3359 02:42:24.440 --> 02:42:44.840 To ants to an