Speaker 1: Welcome to Skin and Soul. I'm Gwenhemkarsley, a transformational body,
Speaker 1: sex and Soul coach, and I'm inviting you on a bold,
Speaker 1: unfiltered journey into the heart of our humanity through the
Speaker 1: lens of Arrows. This is where we strip away the shame,
Speaker 1: dive into the unspoken, and embrace the wild.
Speaker 2: Raw truth of our desires.
Speaker 1: Together we'll crack open the taboo and cover our deepest
Speaker 1: intimacies and awaken the pulse of our sexual essence. Because
Speaker 1: real transformation it's messy, it's thrilling, and it's oh so delicious.
Speaker 1: Buckle up, loves, Skin and Soul. Beyond the Pale starts
Speaker 1: in three two one.
Speaker 3: Let's go Hello and welcome. I'm Gwenhem. I'm your host
Speaker 3: of Skin and Soul Beyond the Pale, where we get
Speaker 3: to talk about what it means to be profound, the
Speaker 3: humans through the lens of arrows, and the myths and
Speaker 3: the guck of it all. And today I am joined
Speaker 3: by Jenny White, who has an incredible story. She's a
Speaker 3: retired registered nurse whose careers span more than thirty years
Speaker 3: in ICUs in trauma unit surgery, public health and long
Speaker 3: term care and in the midst of her career, she
Speaker 3: became the patient life threatening brain tumor left her in
Speaker 3: a coma. When she awoke, she could no longer remember
Speaker 3: her husband, had lost many memories, and had to relearn
Speaker 3: how to walk, how to talk, and essentially rebuild and
Speaker 3: reinvent her life. And along the way she did discover
Speaker 3: this beautiful spark of being a talented writer and has
Speaker 3: her debut novel, a medical thriller, The Triggering Scent, which
Speaker 3: actually draws on her years and expertise in healthcare and
Speaker 3: her own lived experience. So welcome, Welcome, Jenny.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a pleasure. I just want to give
Speaker 3: people context around where you came from before we dive in,
Speaker 3: So just giving people just an idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I lived been in Ontario, Canada, and I
Speaker 2: became a nurse at the right page of twenty one
Speaker 2: and went back to school a couple of times to
Speaker 2: upgrade to do different things like ice you training, and
Speaker 2: then degrees and master's degrees and all that kind of
Speaker 2: stuff that I needed for administration. So I raised five
Speaker 2: kids and it's been quite a journey. You know. Being
Speaker 2: a nurse was sort of all consuming. So I had
Speaker 2: a great partner who helped raise the kids, and between
Speaker 2: us we both worked shift and we just managed to
Speaker 2: navigate and do what we needed to do.
Speaker 3: And at what point did you get the brain tumor
Speaker 3: in your life in your career?
Speaker 2: So actually I recently had the brain tumor. So I
Speaker 2: was actually retired as a nurse and enjoying retirement very much,
Speaker 2: doing the things that you always hope you're going to do,
Speaker 2: like travel the world and you know, do the things
Speaker 2: that you've always wanted to but didn't have the time
Speaker 2: to do. So it was actually just a little over
Speaker 2: two years ago that I had brain surgery and I
Speaker 2: just wasn't feeling well. One day, the nurse inside of
Speaker 2: me said you might be having a stroke. You better
Speaker 2: get checked, and so I got myself to emerge, and
Speaker 2: sure enough, they did the scans. Took it very seriously
Speaker 2: and they said, well, the good news is you're not
Speaker 2: having a stroke. The bad news is you've got a
Speaker 2: large brain tumor and it's going to kill you sooner
Speaker 2: than later. So that was the turning point of life
Speaker 2: where everything just kind of went upside down and backwards,
Speaker 2: and we just took one day at a time and
Speaker 2: went forwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then from my understanding, you woke up and
Speaker 3: you couldn't remember anything anymore. So the man next to
Speaker 3: you is no longer familiar. What was that experience like?
Speaker 2: Well it was at the time, it didn't really register
Speaker 2: on me. I just remember thinking, gee, I wonder who
Speaker 2: that is. And you know, the nurses and the doctors
Speaker 2: were asking me, who is this?
Speaker 3: Who is this?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, no idea. And I think I broke
Speaker 2: his heart that day actually, when he realized that I
Speaker 2: had no idea who he was. And I was actually
Speaker 2: tied to the bed because when I was coming out
Speaker 2: of my coma, I got quite combative. You know, there's
Speaker 2: a saying that nurses make the worst patience. Well, I
Speaker 2: kept that myth alive, and I apparently was trying to
Speaker 2: rip off bandages and rip out ivs and all the
Speaker 2: things that I shouldn't be doing. So they had to
Speaker 2: protect me, so they tied me to the bed. But
Speaker 2: when I woke up, I remember thinking, oh, this is bad. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you wake up, and you know, we spend
Speaker 3: so much of our time in our life being identified
Speaker 3: with one person as as we are, we build this
Speaker 3: person and then you wake up and have no idea
Speaker 3: who that person is anymore. Yeah, what was that experience like?
Speaker 2: Well, I remembered the nurse asking me what my name was,
Speaker 2: and I didn't have a clue. I was thinking and
Speaker 2: thinking and trying to come up with a name, but
Speaker 2: there was just nothing there. So I attempted to say something,
Speaker 2: and then the nurse said to me, she said, dear,
Speaker 2: you're just making sound. You're not speaking. We can't understand.
Speaker 2: You don't panic. You know, it is expected sometimes and
Speaker 2: it should improve shortly. But that was another realization that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I've got a problem here. I can't I don't identify
Speaker 2: who people are. I don't know my name. I oddly
Speaker 2: I knew I was in an intensive carry in it.
Speaker 2: I guess the nurse inside of me was so familiar
Speaker 2: with that environment. You know, I recognize the smells and
Speaker 2: I recognize the sounds and the monitors and the activity.
Speaker 2: So that didn't freak me out at all. I remember
Speaker 2: just kind of waking up going, yeah, I think I've
Speaker 2: got some issues here.
Speaker 3: And did you find yourself as you started to? I mean,
Speaker 3: which is crazy because it's only two years ago. Really
Speaker 3: to be able to relearn. I just have to address that.
Speaker 3: Relearning how to walk and talk and create ate a
Speaker 3: whole new life from that point is a miracle and
Speaker 3: to itself. So when you think about who you were,
Speaker 3: if you do remember who you were before, now.
Speaker 2: Well it's funny. Memories are starting to come back. And
Speaker 2: they told me it would probably take about a decade
Speaker 2: before more and more memories kind of we're triggered. But
Speaker 2: one of the interesting things was, you know, my immediate
Speaker 2: focus was on relearning how to walk and talk, because
Speaker 2: those were two key things that I thought I should
Speaker 2: still be able to do. So I went under extensive
Speaker 2: physiotherapy and then speech therapy. The walking came back first.
Speaker 2: I was able to get the muscle memories to kick in.
Speaker 2: The speech was tougher. And when I was working with
Speaker 2: the speech therapist, he said to me one day, he said,
Speaker 2: you know, things are just not moving along as well
Speaker 2: as I had hoped. He said, do you think you
Speaker 2: could try writing words down? And you know, my brain
Speaker 2: was working. I knew what I wanted to say, I
Speaker 2: just couldn't say it. So I tried writing words, and
Speaker 2: you know, simple words first, like hungry, tired, you know
Speaker 2: those kinds of words, and they were actually the words
Speaker 2: that I wanted. So that was like a key discovery
Speaker 2: that I now could communicate with people via writing what
Speaker 2: I wanted to say. But it also helped rewire my brain.
Speaker 2: So as I did a little bit more every day,
Speaker 2: I started to realize that, okay, things were starting to
Speaker 2: make sense. And then we worked more on like phonics
Speaker 2: and going back to like you know, kindergarten where you're
Speaker 2: learning how to speak, and between the two things, I
Speaker 2: was able to get my speech back. As you can see,
Speaker 2: it's it's not too bad right now.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say it's pretty impeccable. I wouldn't at all.
Speaker 2: Well. I know, it's funny because there are days still
Speaker 2: to this day when I wake up in the morning
Speaker 2: and I have trouble with speech. So if I'm overtired,
Speaker 2: or if you know, something else is going on where
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling well, sometimes my brain just goes on
Speaker 2: vacation for a bit and I can't get the words
Speaker 2: out again, and then you know, it might be a
Speaker 2: day or two and then they're back. Every day's an adventure.
Speaker 3: Every day's an adventure. And then how did you end
Speaker 3: up meeting the people in your life. So you know,
Speaker 3: you didn't recognize your husband, how about your children, your friends?
Speaker 2: No, No, I played well, I didn't really play dumb
Speaker 2: because I was dumb. Really. They thought that I was
Speaker 2: responding to them normally, but I really didn't know who
Speaker 2: they were. So I remember my husband telling me about
Speaker 2: the kids, what their names were, where they live, because
Speaker 2: they're all adults now, and the fact that I had grandchildren,
Speaker 2: and you know, we started pulling out picture books and
Speaker 2: photographs and things and going through them, and you know,
Speaker 2: it took time for me to say, oh, yeah, that's Michelle,
Speaker 2: and oh yeah that's Craig, and you know, kind of
Speaker 2: working it through that way. But I still have a
Speaker 2: lot of memory loss. Perfect example, we went to a
Speaker 2: family wedding not too long ago and had a great time,
Speaker 2: and I remember looking at people going, I know you,
Speaker 2: but I don't know you. I recognize them, but I
Speaker 2: couldn't put a name to them. I couldn't put an
Speaker 2: occupation to them, or where I knew them from, or
Speaker 2: how I was related to them. But I just kind
Speaker 2: of played along like, oh, yeah, everything's fine. Well after
Speaker 2: the wedding, I realized I couldn't remember my own wedding.
Speaker 2: So then, you know, I kind of lost it and
Speaker 2: my husband, you know, took me in his arms and
Speaker 2: he started talking to me about our wedding twenty years
Speaker 2: ago and who was there and what I wore and
Speaker 2: where it was and you know, it's an odd experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was gonna say so when he you know,
Speaker 3: I actually my first question is did people recognize your
Speaker 3: personality or did everybody think, oh, this is a completely
Speaker 3: different person or something, or did they just meet you?
Speaker 3: And that it depends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on who you talk to. Like, all
Speaker 2: of the family knew that I struggled, and they didn't
Speaker 2: emphasize that at all. The people who were, you know,
Speaker 2: not necessarily close to me, but who I had known
Speaker 2: at some point were just very you know, calming and
Speaker 2: sort of saying, oh, my name's so and so and
Speaker 2: this is what I do and here's how we're related.
Speaker 2: And that kind of helped. But it it makes you
Speaker 2: feel very vulnerable because you just feel lost. You feel really,
Speaker 2: really lost.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think also there's an element of you know, again,
Speaker 3: we spend so much of our lives becoming someone, and
Speaker 3: I wonder how many of the masks fall off than
Speaker 3: just naturally, and you end up being an essence of yourself.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that was your experience, but I think,
Speaker 3: like what is left over? What's the part if you
Speaker 3: believe in a soul or an essence within you that's continual,
Speaker 3: and what part of you is personality? You know, that's
Speaker 3: part part of the brain, And what part of you
Speaker 3: is is you now?
Speaker 2: People tell me that my personality has changed a little
Speaker 2: bit somewhat is the terms that they use. They don't
Speaker 2: specify how my personality has changed, but I know that
Speaker 2: I'm different, mainly because I can't remember who I was before.
Speaker 2: So when I was lying in bed in the hospital recovering,
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, well, okay, yes, I have a problem here.
Speaker 2: I don't have my memories and I'm not able to
Speaker 2: speak at the time, so I thought I can't go back,
Speaker 2: so I can only go forward. And I was so
Speaker 2: grateful for being alive because the surgery that I have
Speaker 2: was quite critical and dangerous, and you know, I had
Speaker 2: talked with the doctors. They fully expected me to die
Speaker 2: as well. In fact, it took a while to find
Speaker 2: a neurosurgeon who was willing to give it a go.
Speaker 2: Because surgeons, especially in Canada, you know, they live and
Speaker 2: die by statistics, so they don't want people passing away
Speaker 2: on their operating table, right because it makes them look
Speaker 2: bad or incompetent. With brain tumors, real estate is everything,
Speaker 2: and mine was just in a really bad spot. It
Speaker 2: was strangling some arteries, so the likelihood things could go
Speaker 2: very wrong was quite apparent. And so, you know, even
Speaker 2: going into the surgery, I had those chats with the
Speaker 2: family and I told them, you know, nurses know too much,
Speaker 2: and I told them that I fully expected not to survive.
Speaker 2: And I did all the things you do, like, you know,
Speaker 2: prep for your funeral and write your obituary and all
Speaker 2: those kinds of things that you don't really think about,
Speaker 2: but I did, and you know, I think that prepared
Speaker 2: me for the surgery. So when the surgery day came,
Speaker 2: I was ready to go. It was like now or
Speaker 2: never kind of thing, because if we didn't do the surgery,
Speaker 2: I was sure to die. So this was a glimpse
Speaker 2: of hope. And when I woke up, even with my challenges,
Speaker 2: I was just so grateful for being alive that I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 2: clearly I've been given a second chance. So I've got
Speaker 2: a blank slate, so instead of really mourning my old self,
Speaker 2: I just thought, Okay, this is a this is time
Speaker 2: to just reinvent and go forward.
Speaker 3: Amazing. So how did your husband meet this new woman
Speaker 3: that would eventually.
Speaker 2: Show Well, you know, he I think he's had it
Speaker 2: worse than I have had it because in many ways,
Speaker 2: you know, he's still living in the past with the
Speaker 2: old me. So when you talk to him about it,
Speaker 2: you know, he don't say a lot because he's a guy.
Speaker 2: But when I do get him to chat a bit,
Speaker 2: you know, he'll say, I kind of wish I had
Speaker 2: the old Jenny back because I'm still struggling to figure
Speaker 2: out the new Jenny. And I am too, And he's
Speaker 2: got thirty years of memories and I have very very
Speaker 2: limited ones. So you know, he'll say to me, do
Speaker 2: you remember doing this? No? Do you remember so No?
Speaker 2: So you know, all you can do is is get help,
Speaker 2: And you know, we kind of there was a point
Speaker 2: where we had a conversation, is it time to go
Speaker 2: our separate ways? Because we're different people. I'm a different
Speaker 2: person now and we're more like roommates than we are
Speaker 2: a married couple. So we laugh about it now that
Speaker 2: you know, after twenty years of marriage, we're dating again
Speaker 2: because we're trying to reinvent new memories going forward as
Speaker 2: opposed to working with what we had in the past.
Speaker 3: That's really beautiful that you can do that. That's so
Speaker 3: now you're I don't know, I think that's a without
Speaker 3: over romanticizing it, because I think there must be a
Speaker 3: lot of challenges along the way, having to meet somebody
Speaker 3: new and looking at your husband knowing he's your husband
Speaker 3: and he's a stranger, which waking up and having to
Speaker 3: reconnect and do it consciously. I think most people don't
Speaker 3: even think about doing in their relationships. So in a
Speaker 3: strange way, from the outside, it looks like, wow, you
Speaker 3: actually get this opportunity to reinvent, reignite if it's meant.
Speaker 2: To be well exactly, you know, And as you said,
Speaker 2: people think, you know, oh, what a great thing you
Speaker 2: know that you can have like a you can have
Speaker 2: a new affair with your husband. Well, that's one way
Speaker 2: of looking at it, But when you're in the shoes
Speaker 2: of trying to do it's it's very daunting. It's you know,
Speaker 2: you feel lost, you feel vulnerable, you feel angry, you
Speaker 2: feel you question whether you're doing the right thing, but
Speaker 2: you know the fact that he's stuck with me through
Speaker 2: through it all and helped me. I mean, he was
Speaker 2: the one who made my meals and did my laundry
Speaker 2: for me for almost a year before I was able
Speaker 2: to pick those tasks up again. You know, I have
Speaker 2: to give him credit for that. A lot of people
Speaker 2: wouldn't have survived the marriage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so he was very loyal. So what was it
Speaker 3: like coming and meeting your body again as a woman,
Speaker 3: just even feeling back into this strange body that you
Speaker 3: no longer remembered.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I find my emotions are different. I
Speaker 2: almost feel somewhat flat most of the time, almost like
Speaker 2: I don't really have you know, huge joy or huge sadness.
Speaker 2: I'm sort of in the middle, just kind of existing.
Speaker 2: And you know, I've been told that that's not uncommon
Speaker 2: with brain injuries and brain surgery. Because of where my
Speaker 2: tumor was, they kind of had to dig a little
Speaker 2: to get at it. And as a result, you know,
Speaker 2: brains don't like to be touched, they don't like air
Speaker 2: to be exposed to that, and it does you're never
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 3: There's a saying in.
Speaker 2: Neurosurgery that air to the brain, you're never the same,
Speaker 2: and that is so true. I find that I'm just different.
Speaker 2: It's hard to describe, but it's different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it sounds like you just have a little
Speaker 3: bit of removal from your emotions. How about the sensations
Speaker 3: in your body, the experience of being alive?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, like I said, I'm very grateful to
Speaker 2: be alive. Why try and live every day doing something positive.
Speaker 2: I think I've become much closer to my spiritual side
Speaker 2: and that I know that it wasn't just the doctors
Speaker 2: keeping me alive. I know that, you know, there was
Speaker 2: a bigger force there keeping me going and giving me
Speaker 2: really this opportunity to continue to serve, you know, when
Speaker 2: you think about it. I was a nurse for thirty
Speaker 2: three years, and in that time I obviously worked with
Speaker 2: a lot of people and help them get through crises,
Speaker 2: and once I became the patient, it was a very different,
Speaker 2: humbling experience. I used to think I would understand when
Speaker 2: people were on a ventilator and you know, couldn't do
Speaker 2: anything for themselves, and I used to talk to them
Speaker 2: as their nurse and caregiver, and then to be on
Speaker 2: the other side where I know I'm on a ventilator
Speaker 2: and I can hear voices of people talking to me
Speaker 2: and telling me what they're going to do, but not
Speaker 2: being able to do anything about it. It's shocking. It's
Speaker 2: really an insight, which I think you saw probably in
Speaker 2: the book. What I did was I took what I
Speaker 2: was experiencing and I put it into my character, so
Speaker 2: I was able to express my emotions through the character.
Speaker 2: So I think that was kind of a unique way
Speaker 2: to heal. But it helped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was I wanted to say, it was
Speaker 3: obvious and knowing your story and then reading the book
Speaker 3: and looking into the character, we got a really good
Speaker 3: insight on what it must be like to not recognize
Speaker 3: and not know what it's like just relearning what it
Speaker 3: is to be in a body and not be what
Speaker 3: other people expect and trying to grasp onto the life
Speaker 3: that you sort of had. And like I said, two
Speaker 3: years is not a long time to have heard whatsoever.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking at you not short of a
Speaker 3: miracle and just thinking about even being in a bed
Speaker 3: and you're saying, you know you're lying there helpless, you're
Speaker 3: strapped down because I guess you you know, I think
Speaker 3: a lot of patients want to pull out.
Speaker 2: Yeah you have that urge, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's one of my biggest nightmares, absolutely completely,
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, you know, it makes me think
Speaker 3: of a lot of coma patients, you know, as you
Speaker 3: can hear them, and that we take for granted that
Speaker 3: people know that there's that there's someone there, or that
Speaker 3: you can hear the voices even if you're not so
Speaker 3: you can hear the tones, and understanding that you also
Speaker 3: came from such a long time of being in the
Speaker 3: medical industry. Industry. I don't know how much of it
Speaker 3: is true, but I have a suspicion that there's a
Speaker 3: lot of true.
Speaker 1: Stories in there which we can go, oh god, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what pilots go through, right, like, yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, writing was something that
Speaker 2: really helped me wire my brain. I knew as a
Speaker 2: nurse that even though your brain cells don't regenerate, you
Speaker 2: can reroot traffic for lack of a better analogy, in
Speaker 2: your brain. So I deliberately took the effort to every
Speaker 2: day try writing something, even if it was just a
Speaker 2: couple of words, because that encouraged pathways to be built
Speaker 2: so that other parts of my brain could take over
Speaker 2: what I was missing. They tell you, they showed me
Speaker 2: images of I did have a stroke during the surgery,
Speaker 2: which is you know, which wasn't unexpected. It was a
Speaker 2: small one, which was a blessing, but it was just
Speaker 2: enough to annoy my speech center that it didn't want
Speaker 2: to play anymore. So I had to figure out a
Speaker 2: way to make that happen.
Speaker 3: I'm flabbering asked to buy your story. So my my
Speaker 3: mother's had a few strokes now, I mean she's got
Speaker 3: what we would call vascular dementia, and so it's really
Speaker 3: so watching her I'm going to say slowly to grade
Speaker 3: in factity to be her fully herself. But it's really
Speaker 3: been a slow journey and it's amazing to watch her
Speaker 3: kick into other parts of her brain. She's really really clever.
Speaker 3: And what it for me, what it teaches us, is
Speaker 3: that we have that capacity to reroot our just our experience,
Speaker 3: and that's without having any injuries or without having any
Speaker 3: I'm going to say, major events, somebody milling in our brains.
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Good, No, no, no, go on, I was just gonna.
Speaker 2: I was just going to tell you a little bit
Speaker 2: about the writing journey and how that helped in that
Speaker 2: when I realized I could write some words down, I
Speaker 2: kind of vacillated between being upright for twenty minutes and
Speaker 2: then sleep for another four hours. So in those times
Speaker 2: when I was kind of awake, I would practice doing things,
Speaker 2: and I started creating stories about kids in my brain.
Speaker 2: And I think it was because I couldn't remember my
Speaker 2: childhood particularly. I remember lying in bed thinking, yeah, I
Speaker 2: wonder what I was like as a kid, And so
Speaker 2: I kind of gave myself permission to go back to
Speaker 2: being a five year old again, and I said, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm five. What would I be doing if I were
Speaker 2: five years old? And in my brain, I was thinking, Wow,
Speaker 2: I'd be creating adventures. I'd be creating imaginary friends. I'd
Speaker 2: be playing with my dog, I'd be skipping, I'd be reading.
Speaker 2: I'd be doing these things. And so I started crafting
Speaker 2: children's stories because they were short, they were simple, and
Speaker 2: I could remember them. And so on those twenty minute
Speaker 2: or half hour periods when I was awake, I would
Speaker 2: just jot down like an outline of a story, and
Speaker 2: so that's kind of how the process works. So I
Speaker 2: started with kids' stories just because they were simple and
Speaker 2: clear and didn't use big words, and it evolved into novels.
Speaker 3: And when so in your childhood, though, you came from
Speaker 3: quite a traumatic childhood, which you also don't remember, so
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting then you started writing these
Speaker 3: children's books, and are they I have no idea what
Speaker 3: type of child's books they are, what kind of adventures
Speaker 3: they are, but it feels very much like it's a
Speaker 3: rewriting of the adventures that you may have wanted to have.
Speaker 3: Is that yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, So that was one thing I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 2: what would a kid be doing? And so, you know,
Speaker 2: you'd go to the zoo, you'd go to the fire hall,
Speaker 2: you'd go to the farmer's market, you know, things that
Speaker 2: we take for granted. But it helped me get on
Speaker 2: the computer and start exploring again. I actually had to
Speaker 2: learn about fruits and about and about aquariums and about
Speaker 2: farms because I was thinking, okay, what animals would be
Speaker 2: on a farm, and I couldn't come up with anything.
Speaker 2: So I go to my computer, I type in farm
Speaker 2: and of course all the animals came up, and as
Speaker 2: I looked at pictures, I had to figure out what
Speaker 2: I thought the animals were, and then i'd looked below
Speaker 2: to see what the caption was, and oh, yeah that
Speaker 2: is a horse, and oh yeah that is a cow.
Speaker 2: So that was kind of how I prompted my memories
Speaker 2: to come back.
Speaker 3: And when your memories came back as a child, were
Speaker 3: you surprised by them? Were you detached by them?
Speaker 2: Well? I had been told. My husband had sat me
Speaker 2: down and kind of we had walked through some of
Speaker 2: the things that had happened in my childhood, and as
Speaker 2: a result, I ended up putting some of them into
Speaker 2: the book. But I'm kind of detached from them, as in,
Speaker 2: it's like someone's telling me facts, but the facts don't
Speaker 2: mean anything to me. They don't elicit an emotional response
Speaker 2: from me. It's like, oh okay, yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which I find is really interesting when you think
Speaker 3: of maybe you grieved it in your previous life, that
Speaker 3: there was more aggrieving going on there, because when I
Speaker 3: look at you today, there is even though you say, oh,
Speaker 3: you don't have like as much joy or as much
Speaker 3: bigger emotions. I see somebody that is filled with light.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel that that has come. I feel like
Speaker 2: it's starting to evolve more and more, and as I'm
Speaker 2: finding joy with writing and with just exploring that industry
Speaker 2: and learning something new and trying something new, that is
Speaker 2: joyful for me. And I'm in a position where, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm retired, I have a pension, my husband has a pension.
Speaker 2: We're secure financially. I don't need to worry about going
Speaker 2: out and getting a job. I can play, so I
Speaker 2: have that definite advantage of just being able to explore,
Speaker 2: try if if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, I'll
Speaker 2: go try something else. But I'm having fun. So as
Speaker 2: long as I'm having fun, that's all I care about.
Speaker 3: And do you think that the old version if you
Speaker 3: were from your your husband or your children, because you
Speaker 3: are so curious as a person, do you think you
Speaker 3: were always curious as a person? I always love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was, And I always enjoyed change.
Speaker 2: I always enjoyed adventure, and I certainly got it. So
Speaker 2: I think I was kind of hardwired right from the
Speaker 2: get go to to be empathetic, to try new things,
Speaker 2: to not be worried about boundaries, to just try new things.
Speaker 3: And in so one thing that I wanted to shift
Speaker 3: to a little bit was your experience as an earth
Speaker 3: and in healthcare, because I do think that there's there's
Speaker 3: huge problems, particularly in Canada. I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: unique to Canada. I certainly don't think it is. Uh,
Speaker 3: And how your care was in in the surgery, the
Speaker 3: most care and sad on and that you've been an
Speaker 3: advocate as well for long term care and your experience
Speaker 3: and that because I think there's a huge gap that
Speaker 3: happened there. Yeah, and we're not.
Speaker 2: Taking this absolutely, yeah, absolutely, And actually my second book
Speaker 2: is I put my character Abby into a long term
Speaker 2: care home and kind of create a thriller story around
Speaker 2: that some of the things that I saw as a
Speaker 2: director of nursing. But to write, healthcare worldwide really is
Speaker 2: in crisis. You know, nurses in some countries are not
Speaker 2: well respected and not well paid. And what people need
Speaker 2: to really understand is is the nurses really your gatekeeper
Speaker 2: to good healthcare. They're the ones who see and hear
Speaker 2: and act, and they're highly skilled, and they're knowledgeable, and
Speaker 2: they're empathetic and they look at the whole person versus
Speaker 2: a say a physician who you know, looks at a problem,
Speaker 2: identifies the problem, fixes the problem, and then you're gone.
Speaker 2: Whereas a nurse, she's looking at the whole person. You're emotional,
Speaker 2: you're spiritual, your family, you know, all of the other
Speaker 2: pieces that make up a human being. So when you
Speaker 2: become the patient, it's an interesting experience. I have to say,
Speaker 2: the staff where I was at my hospital were fabulous.
Speaker 2: They took good care of me, and you know, we
Speaker 2: have a well, what's the word I want see, here's
Speaker 2: one of my challenges in healthcare. We protect each other.
Speaker 2: So if you're a nurse and you're become a patient,
Speaker 2: you know, you're sort of looked after with a gold glove.
Speaker 2: And I remember as they were putting me out in
Speaker 2: the operating room under anesthesia, they were making me laugh
Speaker 2: and I just thought, oh, what a blessful thing that
Speaker 2: they were doing for me, because my last thing that
Speaker 2: I might remember forever was being you know, laughing and
Speaker 2: feeling content and okay in their hands. So that was
Speaker 2: a huge thing. But there's so many other challenges with healthcare,
Speaker 2: things like tight budgets and short supplies and you know,
Speaker 2: not having the tools that you need. Violence in the
Speaker 2: workplace is huge. I mean when I was a nurse,
Speaker 2: I used to get kicked and punched and bitten and
Speaker 2: things thrown at me and all kinds of things. But
Speaker 2: it's getting worse now. I mean, nurses are actually being
Speaker 2: killed in some cases where unhappy families are coming back
Speaker 2: for revenge. And you know, it's not it's not fair,
Speaker 2: and it's incredibly traumatic for people, and there's they've got
Speaker 2: to fix it. They really got to fix it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's something that I've noticed in healthcare is that
Speaker 3: there's often an understaffing and I just I didn't realize
Speaker 3: until your book of how much a nurse. I mean,
Speaker 3: I've always known that nurses do a lot, but just
Speaker 3: being able to monitor everything that's going on, it's, uh,
Speaker 3: it was eye opening. And and I would agree me
Speaker 3: just watching a lot of nurses get I know it
Speaker 3: from my own mother. She attacks people, right, so, I
Speaker 3: mean as part of her illness, and it's it's a
Speaker 3: real thing, and there aren't enough resources. And I think
Speaker 3: it's scary that we're not taking care of our elderly.
Speaker 2: You know, And and writing these books is giving me
Speaker 2: an opportunity to highlight some of the challenges in healthcare,
Speaker 2: Like you said, you know, just these processes people dementia,
Speaker 2: people don't understand what they're doing, and it's still the
Speaker 2: nurse who's their caregiver, who takes the breunt of it.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's it's just really unfortunate. And I
Speaker 2: think it's a way that I can highlight some of
Speaker 2: the challenges and make people aware of some of the
Speaker 2: things that could be fixed that just need to be
Speaker 2: brought to light. That there has to be discussion and
Speaker 2: interest in the public to make change. And when you
Speaker 2: start putting things out in print where people are reading
Speaker 2: them and going, gee, I wonder if that really happens, Well,
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to ruin any of it,
Speaker 3: but I'm just sitting there going, oh, yeah, it's like
Speaker 3: I said, it's like the pilot with there's things you
Speaker 3: just you don't want to know to know, Yeah, what happens,
Speaker 3: how the scalpel gets left in. I'm not saying that's
Speaker 3: not in the book, by the way, but I've heard
Speaker 3: of it, right, I've heard of yeah, you know, people
Speaker 3: getting there there their organs sewn in and so on.
Speaker 3: So I think that's one of the highlights of just
Speaker 3: reading how much nurses do and how much and you
Speaker 3: had so much understanding around it. So and then moving
Speaker 3: into writing, which now you're bringing it into the story
Speaker 3: in so, I just want to bring in your experience
Speaker 3: again of be coming back alive into your body. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, you spent your life caring for other people.
Speaker 3: What was it like then being on the opposite, the
Speaker 3: opposite side of people coming and caring for you, caring
Speaker 3: for you? See I can't speak either.
Speaker 2: Oh that's okay. Well, in some ways it was really annoying,
Speaker 2: you know. So perfect example. So I'm in a too
Speaker 2: bad room because the hospital that I was in didn't
Speaker 2: have private rooms, and I think everybody who has brain
Speaker 2: surgery should have a private room just so you could
Speaker 2: turn off the lights, close the door and be quiet.
Speaker 2: So I had a relative healthy roommate beside me who
Speaker 2: had lots of visitors, and they were very loud and
Speaker 2: boyish and joyful, and I was like, oh, please go away.
Speaker 2: My head was just exploding. And every time I felt
Speaker 2: like I went to sleep, I felt like I was
Speaker 2: being woken up every other minute to have procedures done,
Speaker 2: tests done, vitals done, dressings change, and it just felt
Speaker 2: like a never ending cycle of awake, a sleep, awake, asleep,
Speaker 2: and it was it was tough.
Speaker 3: I was like, I always feel bad for even just babies, right,
Speaker 3: they're just always yanking them every five minutes. Oh, you're
Speaker 3: just thinking like, please leave me alone, just let me
Speaker 3: sleep and be in peace.
Speaker 2: Exactly because you're just so tired and you just feel
Speaker 2: so unwell that you just really want to curl up
Speaker 2: under a blanket and just go to sleep and not
Speaker 2: wake up for quite a while.
Speaker 3: So then what changed in your relationship with let's say,
Speaker 3: just even touch and being touched.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, interestingly, I didn't really have any changes
Speaker 2: in that department. You know, everything felt the same. My
Speaker 2: biggest challenge was when my legs didn't want to do
Speaker 2: what I wanted them to do, and that was scary.
Speaker 2: So you know, you don't really think about walking, but
Speaker 2: there's probably about thirty different muscle groups that are used
Speaker 2: to walk a step, and I couldn't get my foot
Speaker 2: to go in the direction that I wanted it to go.
Speaker 2: So I was being man handled for lack of a
Speaker 2: better word, only because they needed to get me up
Speaker 2: and moving, and so I remember kind of being dragged
Speaker 2: or put the floor holding onto a walker, and I
Speaker 2: had a nurse on either side of me and my
Speaker 2: husband pulling the ivy pole behind me and just kind
Speaker 2: of being forced down the hall. So that didn't feel
Speaker 2: good because I couldn't do what I wanted to do,
Speaker 2: which was to walk. Another example, they took me to
Speaker 2: the sink to brush my teeth because I beat at
Speaker 2: a coma for four days and I'm sure I needed
Speaker 2: to brush my teeth. And they got me to the
Speaker 2: sink and I remember looking at the toothbrush and the
Speaker 2: toothpaste and thinking, okay, those probably are what I need
Speaker 2: to brush my teeth. And the therapist said to me,
Speaker 2: she said, okay, go ahead and brush your teeth. And
Speaker 2: I'm looking at her like what And she said, you know,
Speaker 2: pick up your toothbrush. And I'm thinking, okay, which one
Speaker 2: of these is the toothbrush? So I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2: So she picked up my toothbrush put it in my hand,
Speaker 2: which felt really awkward because it isn't normally how I
Speaker 2: hold my toothbrush. And then she said, okay, now put
Speaker 2: your toothpaste on. And again I picked up what I
Speaker 2: you know, the only other thing that was there, which
Speaker 2: was the toothpaste, but I couldn't figure out how to
Speaker 2: get the cap off. So even something as simple as
Speaker 2: brushing your teeth was like a major accomplishment. And you know,
Speaker 2: the five minutes that it took to brush my teeth
Speaker 2: felt like three hours. By the time I was done,
Speaker 2: I was absolutely exhausted.
Speaker 3: So how long did it take you then to go
Speaker 3: from because like I said, two years is not a
Speaker 3: long time to be able to be walking and talking
Speaker 3: to getting up and having control over your body and
Speaker 3: feeling into your body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first month I was pretty much just
Speaker 2: doing straight physiotherapy, and I was able to get up
Speaker 2: and wander around with a walker after about a month
Speaker 2: on my own without falling over. Balance was an issue
Speaker 2: as well, So between the two things, I finally got
Speaker 2: that under control, and that was probably just related to
Speaker 2: the swelling going down in my head. Speech took longer.
Speaker 2: It took more like three months before I could really
Speaker 2: start to express And as I said, now that I
Speaker 2: I had a communication method, I felt a little better
Speaker 2: about not being able to speak. So I just had
Speaker 2: to work at it. In terms of self care, like
Speaker 2: taking a shower, that kind of thing, it was probably
Speaker 2: around the three month period when I wasn't falling over
Speaker 2: anymore and I was safe to be able to be
Speaker 2: in the shower by myself. So yeah, it was kind
Speaker 2: of along those timelines. And then once I started getting
Speaker 2: speech back and started to have some stamina in terms
Speaker 2: of staying awake longer than twenty minutes or half an hour,
Speaker 2: then I was able to get on the computer and
Speaker 2: play a little bit and figure out what I wanted
Speaker 2: to do and get some courses behind me and that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. So it was a slow process, but
Speaker 2: once I learned the art of writing from the courses
Speaker 2: that I took and I got the outline sort of navigated,
Speaker 2: then it kind of wrote itself fairly quickly.
Speaker 3: And were you doing it on the computer because I
Speaker 3: was just watching something recently talking about how handwriting lights
Speaker 3: up your entire brain, which really gets its work.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I wrote out in long form the the outline,
Speaker 2: and then what I would do is I would take
Speaker 2: a chapter and I would start to type, and that
Speaker 2: helped as well. But there were you know, thank Heavens
Speaker 2: for spell check, because my words were all jumbled and
Speaker 2: the letters were in the wrong place. But you know,
Speaker 2: the computer helped sort that out. But yeah, that's kind
Speaker 2: of how it worked.
Speaker 3: Beautiful. Thank you. What do you think brought joy back
Speaker 3: into your life or what brought Yeah, what brought pleasure
Speaker 3: back into your life?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I was so determined to come out
Speaker 2: of this in a positive way that every day I
Speaker 2: worked at improving and trying new things. So once I
Speaker 2: realized that I could write, that brought me joy. It
Speaker 2: brought me a sense of accomplishment, and it brought me
Speaker 2: a sense that, Okay, things are going to be okay
Speaker 2: because you're making sense, you're moving forward. I don't know
Speaker 2: what it's going to look like yet, but I felt
Speaker 2: like I was accomplishing something and that brought a lot
Speaker 2: of self esteem back to me. I have to admit.
Speaker 2: I mean physically, I looked horrible. I had this massive
Speaker 2: scar over my head. I was bald. I have a
Speaker 2: hole in my head where my skull has been removed
Speaker 2: and they can't put back. So I'm deformed, for lack
Speaker 2: of a better word. So that's why my hair is
Speaker 2: the way it is. It covers the scars, it covers
Speaker 2: the hole. But I'm conscious now of what's important, so
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter what you look like, it's more
Speaker 2: important that you find a purpose. And when I found
Speaker 2: a purpose, that brought me joy because, as I said before,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to find a way to serve.
Speaker 2: So my kids' books are in libraries and daycares and
Speaker 2: they're helping kids learn to read. My medical thrillers are entertaining,
Speaker 2: and it's giving me a way to highlight some issues
Speaker 2: that I think are important. So between the two, I
Speaker 2: feel like I've got a bit of a purpose now.
Speaker 2: And I share my story to share hope with people
Speaker 2: that if you're stuck in bad circumstances, they're temporary and
Speaker 2: you have the power to make change. And so, you know,
Speaker 2: I sort of say to people, look, if I could
Speaker 2: go from a coma to a best selling author, you
Speaker 2: can get whatever it is you need to chasege done.
Speaker 2: You just have to kind of have a path. I
Speaker 2: had support from my friends, my family, my church, and
Speaker 2: you know, I just one foot in front of the
Speaker 2: other day by day.
Speaker 3: And how about your children, So what is your relationship
Speaker 3: like with your children these days?
Speaker 2: Well, it's different. You know, It's not like I'm their
Speaker 2: mother and they're my kids. It's more like we're friends
Speaker 2: and coexisting adults. Perfect example, my son came for dinner
Speaker 2: not too long ago, and of course I served dinner
Speaker 2: and he looks at me. He goes, Mom, I don't
Speaker 2: eat this, and it was like, oh yeah, like I
Speaker 2: totally forgot. So you got to write me a list
Speaker 2: of what you'll eat, what you won't to eat, so
Speaker 2: that I can remember because I always forget what he
Speaker 2: doesn't like. It's so funny.
Speaker 3: So that must be pretty hard on them to have
Speaker 3: a mom that is not Yeah, that is not the
Speaker 3: same person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I think it is,
Speaker 2: but I try. As I said to them, I said,
Speaker 2: you know, we're just gonna have to make new memories.
Speaker 2: Just pretend like you know, I've parachuted in and we're
Speaker 2: just gonna have to go forward.
Speaker 3: I love that you have such a positive attitude where
Speaker 3: most people would cave in. Honestly, marriages would be disintegrating,
Speaker 3: and you walked into everything and just said, okay, let's go,
Speaker 3: let's try, let's let's forward, let's not get stuck in
Speaker 3: what's backwards. So these will be interesting questions for you
Speaker 3: to answer since they're coming from a very new place. Yes,
Speaker 3: my ten questions that I always asked, So, okay, it's interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what is what is one truth your body has always
Speaker 3: known that your mind took years to catch up to.
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, I don't know. How's that for an answer?
Speaker 2: I guess that you know, as long as you're young
Speaker 2: at heart, bodies young, and as long as you stay active,
Speaker 2: you're active.
Speaker 3: Thank you. What is the most intimate moment you've ever
Speaker 3: had that had nothing to do with sex?
Speaker 2: I think just being grateful I was alive and just
Speaker 2: giving the universe gratitude for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and being reacquainted with yourself again. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3: If you could be remembered for one sensation you gave someone,
Speaker 3: what would it be?
Speaker 2: I hope. Hope is the word that I give to
Speaker 2: people that as long as you're willing to try and
Speaker 2: put one foot in front of the other, you know
Speaker 2: you could accomplish anything. My physiotherapist said to me when
Speaker 2: I was having my rehab, She said, baby steps will
Speaker 2: take you all the way to the top of Mount Everest,
Speaker 2: just keep going.
Speaker 3: Thank you. If pleasure were a language, what would your
Speaker 3: first word be?
Speaker 2: Comfort?
Speaker 3: Yes? If your erotic life had a title like a
Speaker 3: novel or a film, what would it be called.
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, we're gonna have to think about that one.
Speaker 3: Shall we come back to it?
Speaker 2: Well? Keep it?
Speaker 3: Okay? What is one thing that you've never said out loud,
Speaker 3: or at least in your recent new life that you
Speaker 3: wish someone would.
Speaker 2: Ask you about what it's like to be in a coma.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was one of my questions. I was thinking, well,
Speaker 3: we might get there before we go if we have
Speaker 3: a moment. Okay, what part of your erotic self are
Speaker 3: you still afraid to bring to the light?
Speaker 2: My goodness, these are tough questions. I think experimenting with
Speaker 2: kissing again would be interesting.
Speaker 3: Kissing is an art, honestly, it's and it's edity. But
Speaker 3: I think we underray kissing about kissing.
Speaker 2: I think so too, right?
Speaker 3: What dies in you when you pretend? And what comes
Speaker 3: alive in you when you don't?
Speaker 2: It dies in me when I'm not truthful. I feel
Speaker 2: like a fraud, I guess. And what was the second
Speaker 2: part of the.
Speaker 3: Question, And what comes alive when you don't pretend?
Speaker 2: Oh? I think my my personality comes out when I
Speaker 2: don't pretend. I think I'm a bit of a risk taker.
Speaker 3: Perhaps, well, and this isn't a question I normally ask someone,
Speaker 3: but because of your experience, what is your favorite part
Speaker 3: about your personality?
Speaker 2: My willingness to try new things. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people are really scared of change and feel very
Speaker 2: uncomfortable when they're kind of pushed into a corner and
Speaker 2: don't have a plan. I'm kind of the opposite. And
Speaker 2: maybe that's why I did okay with the surgery, is that,
Speaker 2: you know, my my options were limited, and I chose
Speaker 2: to want to try and survive, and so I took
Speaker 2: the risk that you know, the neurosurgeon who said yes,
Speaker 2: was going to do his best. But as I highlighted
Speaker 2: in the novel, sometimes that isn't always what happens.
Speaker 3: No it's not. But we like your neurosearch and I
Speaker 3: hope yes we do.
Speaker 2: I can't remember his name, but yes, I.
Speaker 3: Finish this sentence. When I leave this life, I want
Speaker 3: my skin to.
Speaker 2: Remember, Oh, a soft touch.
Speaker 3: Thank you. If the soul has a scent, what does
Speaker 3: your smell like today?
Speaker 2: So? M hm flowers, mhm, specific flowers or any flowers,
Speaker 2: just any flowers. I love flowers.
Speaker 3: And now we get to go back and circle back.
Speaker 3: If your erotic life had a title like a film
Speaker 3: or a novel what might.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness hidden Jenny Ooh.
Speaker 3: I love it and too funny. I would love to
Speaker 3: know what your experience was as being in a coma.
Speaker 2: Well, it was interesting. So as a nurse, I knew
Speaker 2: that they were going to be giving me specific drugs
Speaker 2: to deal with the trauma in my head. So I
Speaker 2: knew there were drugs to reduce this swelling. I knew
Speaker 2: there were drugs to kind of take away the anxiety
Speaker 2: and the fear. And I remember no fear at all.
Speaker 2: I remember specific voices. I remember being turned and realizing
Speaker 2: I was being turned, but not being able to help
Speaker 2: or to or to move. But I remember the feeling
Speaker 2: of being turned on my side and back again, which
Speaker 2: the nurses do right to keep you from getting bed sores.
Speaker 2: And the only other thing that I really remember is
Speaker 2: being cold all the time, because you know, they don't
Speaker 2: put heavy blankets on you when you're in that I
Speaker 2: see you because they're monitoring all the different things, and
Speaker 2: since they had to tie me down, I guess I
Speaker 2: was particularly bad at that. But you just have a
Speaker 2: light down on and it's not even tied behind your name,
Speaker 2: and you're just cold all the time. I Actually, when
Speaker 2: I woke up, I actually thought I might be dead
Speaker 2: because I was so cold. I thought, oh, maybe I
Speaker 2: am dead, you know. And I remember looking around thinking, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I recognize this and this and this. So that's what
Speaker 2: it was like for me to be in a coma.
Speaker 3: So when you say you were looking around, you could
Speaker 3: see around you even though your eyes were closed.
Speaker 2: No, no, it wasn't until I woke up that I
Speaker 2: saw that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And do you remember dreaming?
Speaker 2: No, I don't not at all. I know some people
Speaker 2: have very different experiences, but no, not for me. And
Speaker 2: I didn't, you know, and I didn't visit the other
Speaker 2: side y as some people do. Like some people float.
Speaker 2: I've heard people talk about how they float above themselves.
Speaker 2: I don't remember that at all. I might have, but
Speaker 2: I don't remember it.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for that. I love you have
Speaker 3: such a spark in you, and I've just loved reading
Speaker 3: your books. I want to make sure I send everybody
Speaker 3: to your site, which is Jenny White dot Ca, to
Speaker 3: go and take a look at at your journey and
Speaker 3: the books. I believe you have two more coming. You
Speaker 3: have one of the publishers, one that you're writing, so
Speaker 3: you're a prolific writer now and I look forward to
Speaker 3: hearing more stories. And if there's any pearls of wisdom
Speaker 3: that you want to share with us before we leave today.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the main pearl of wisdom that I
Speaker 2: want to leave with people is possibilities. Is hope and
Speaker 2: possibilities that every day you're alive, you are in control,
Speaker 2: even though you may not feel like you're in control,
Speaker 2: and that the ability to change is possible and it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be a dramatic change like what I
Speaker 2: went through, But you have the power to be in
Speaker 2: control of your own life and existence. And it's okay
Speaker 2: to ask for help, it's okay to explore. And I
Speaker 2: think as a society we need to challenge what we
Speaker 2: think is the norm. So, for example, people will look
Speaker 2: at me and go, oh, you're senior. You know you
Speaker 2: should be relaxed, you should have your feet up and
Speaker 2: begininning or something, and It's like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not done yet. I've still got things to do.
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm challenging that myth of slowing down
Speaker 2: and being incapacitated. I have no plans for that at all. No.
Speaker 3: I love that you have a reinvention. Now, I'm going
Speaker 3: to say later in life, whether we call it golden ears,
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I like that term. But that's something
Speaker 3: that's always given me hope because when I was growing up,
Speaker 3: it was your life was done at I don't know,
Speaker 3: forty fifty whatever, it was, right, you were finished, go
Speaker 3: and go and pack it up. And now people are
Speaker 3: reinventing themselves and doing so many things and courting again,
Speaker 3: learning how to kiss again, learning to create like new
Speaker 3: hobbies and you know, for you creating new wire patterns.
Speaker 3: So thank you, thank you for sharing. Yes my pleasure,
Speaker 3: So everyone, thank you for joining us today. I will
Speaker 3: see you again next week and again if you want
Speaker 3: to read her latest book, The Triggering Scent, and you
Speaker 3: can also go to Jennywaite dot ca. A thank you
Speaker 3: and good night or good morning wherever you are.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Skin and Soul with me, Gwenham.
Speaker 1: Join me Fridays at ten ampst on Transformation Talk Radio.
Speaker 3: Catch the podcast.
Speaker 1: Anytime on your favorite platforms. You can follow me on
Speaker 1: Instagram at louvology. Ready to Take the Next Step book
Speaker 1: A compatibility call with me at Gwenhemcarsley dot com