Speaker 1: And it's Jake Novak and Michael Cohen in for Roger
Speaker 1: Stone this evening. We're going to start you out with
Speaker 1: some breaking news, especially as we approach the 25th anniversary
Speaker 1: of 9-11. I found this decision today to be very interesting.
Speaker 1: We want to talk about it. A military judge has
Speaker 1: decided that the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, remember that guy?
Speaker 1: That was the guy with all the back hair and
Speaker 1: we woke him up in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: He was the one who actually planned the intricate planning
Speaker 1: of 9-11. He's been in our custody for a very,
Speaker 1: very long time. Since just a couple of years after 9-11,
Speaker 1: he's been in our custody. He's been at Gitmo Bay
Speaker 1: and now we have a date for his trial. Still
Speaker 1: pretty far off. It's not going to be until June 5th, 2028,
Speaker 1: but Michael Cohen It will still be a military tribunal.
Speaker 1: He's not going to get that civil trial that the
Speaker 1: liberals wanted, that Eric Holder, when he was attorney general, wanted.
Speaker 1: So I guess that's a good thing.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what that trial is.
Speaker 2: Going to be like?
Speaker 1: Under Barack Obama.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was under Barack Obama that they wanted it
Speaker 2: to be a civil trial.
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 2: They have him exactly where he belongs. What bothers me
Speaker 2: the most, you're talking about 27 years. As we now
Speaker 2: are out to celebrate, and one of the things that
Speaker 2: we have going on here at 7-7 WABC, they're doing
Speaker 2: a gala in, and for the benefit of first responders
Speaker 2: and And their families and so on, which I think
Speaker 2: is beautiful. But 20, 27 years before this piece of
Speaker 2: garbage ends up seeing a court or I should say
Speaker 2: a tribunal decision.
Speaker 1: You know, you're an attorney and I know you're a
Speaker 1: registered Democrat and it's. It's refreshing to hear you be
Speaker 1: also on the side of think common sense of not
Speaker 1: wanting to have a civil trial for this guy. We
Speaker 1: can go into the reasons why I think a civil
Speaker 1: trial would have been a just an atrocity, an atrocity
Speaker 1: if we have a civil trial for this guy. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're not doing that. It was so much
Speaker 1: pressure on Holder and Obama and they ended up changing
Speaker 1: their mind two years later on this. But, you know.
Speaker 1: World War II was kind of a big thing, wasn't it?
Speaker 2: Well, one would think so.
Speaker 1: Well, we had the Nuremberg trials within a year of
Speaker 1: the end of that war, and there were some really
Speaker 1: bad dudes in those trials. This is an outrage that
Speaker 1: it has been this long. And if you think that
Speaker 1: somebody like KSM, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is really... You know,
Speaker 1: suffering away every day at Gitmo. Probably not. I think
Speaker 1: he's in his element. He probably has a lot of buddies.
Speaker 1: I don't think that he has been punished properly.
Speaker 2: So out of the two of us, one of us
Speaker 2: actually spent some time in the pokey. And it ain't
Speaker 2: you there, Jake. So let me say this. It sucks.
Speaker 2: All right. And I can tell you, I was in
Speaker 2: the low of lows. I was in a place called Otisville,
Speaker 2: which was a satellite camp and it was horrible. And
Speaker 2: when I mean horrible, it is horrible. Say whatever you want.
Speaker 2: Guantanamo Bay is definitively worse. And I hope, I hope
Speaker 2: that KSM is being treated poorly. I really do. I
Speaker 2: hope that they're, I hope that they're doing at least
Speaker 2: worse than what they did to me. That's what I
Speaker 2: hope for this animal who caused the death of so many,
Speaker 2: so many Americans and so many individuals.
Speaker 1: You know, it's, it's amazing to me that it, because
Speaker 1: during that period when it was being debated, Whether or
Speaker 1: not there would be a civil trial for this guy.
Speaker 1: It was shocking to me how many people didn't understand
Speaker 1: why a civil trial would be an atrocity. Can you
Speaker 1: imagine being a family member of one of the people
Speaker 1: murdered and you got to hear in open court? a
Speaker 1: lawyer basically saying that your loved one had a comment. Also,
Speaker 1: the networks.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, because there's the old adage, right, that
Speaker 2: everyone's entitled to the best defense that money can buy.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing that would bother me about that
Speaker 2: type of a trial. You know that there's outside money
Speaker 2: that would be coming in To the United States. Nobody
Speaker 2: talked about that. Guaranteed 100 percent money would be coming
Speaker 2: in from these outside sources and they would end up
Speaker 2: funding an entire group of attorneys, a real true legal team,
Speaker 2: in order to try to defend this animal.
Speaker 1: Well, you hit the nail on the head. That's exactly
Speaker 1: what I wanted to talk about. This would have created
Speaker 1: a financial network. And listen, they're doing it already. In fact,
Speaker 1: there's breaking news tonight also about how Antifa in Portland
Speaker 1: was funded by Hamas. was funded by the IRGC. Not
Speaker 1: a surprise to me, but now that there's evidence of it,
Speaker 1: I think that's big news. So it wouldn't have only
Speaker 1: been all that money coming in, but Michael Cohen, the
Speaker 1: relationships that would have been made, the terrorist groups would
Speaker 1: have made relationships with big time New York law firms
Speaker 1: and they would have had, they would have been able
Speaker 1: to use them for anything else they might want to
Speaker 1: use them for. It would have been an absolute disaster
Speaker 1: in addition to being, I think, incredibly hurtful for the
Speaker 1: victim's families who don't deserve to hear some wisecracking lawyer
Speaker 1: talking about how Somebody at Bear Stearns or Canterford Sterl,
Speaker 1: to be more exact, had a comment.
Speaker 2: Could you also imagine if no decent law firm ended
Speaker 2: up taking KSM's case? Now the taxpayer has to actually
Speaker 2: foot the bill because you cannot have a trial, specifically
Speaker 2: one such as this, without having court-appointed counsel. Meaning we,
Speaker 2: on top of everything, have to fund the defense for
Speaker 2: this monster.
Speaker 1: I urge everyone to go watch Judgment at Nuremberg. You know,
Speaker 1: that movie holds up. The movie was made not, I think,
Speaker 1: as it was early 60s, I think it came out.
Speaker 1: Understand how these military trials go. It's not like you're
Speaker 1: not allowed to have a defense. It's not like you
Speaker 1: don't have certain rights. But KSM, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was
Speaker 1: a military combatant against the United States. Just because it
Speaker 1: was an attack on a civilian target doesn't mean it
Speaker 1: wasn't a military attack. And it was. Al Qaeda is
Speaker 1: still a paramilitary terrorist army. And to me, it was
Speaker 1: one of those things where somebody out there just thought
Speaker 1: too much of themselves in the legal profession and thought
Speaker 1: like this was just so obvious. Of course, he should
Speaker 1: deserve a civil trial. It only took two years for
Speaker 1: them to reverse that. But here we are. It's going
Speaker 1: to be 17 years after that reversal and 27 years
Speaker 1: almost after 9-11 before this guy actually sees some kind
Speaker 1: of a trial. I don't know. It seems to me
Speaker 1: that's an atrocity, too, that people.
Speaker 2: Have to wait that long. It's a total miscarriage. You know,
Speaker 2: they always say that justice delayed is justice denied. I
Speaker 2: truly feel for the families. And by the way, I
Speaker 2: know a bunch of families that lost members. I know
Speaker 2: my next-door neighbor growing up passed away. During the 9-11 attacks.
Speaker 2: And I got to tell you something. They wouldn't be happy.
Speaker 2: They're not happy that this monster is still breathing. He
Speaker 2: doesn't deserve to breathe the air. That's my, again, my opinion.
Speaker 2: And I would have liked to have seen this thing
Speaker 2: move a whole lot more expeditiously.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have an entire generation of Americans who
Speaker 1: were born after 9-11 now. don't really know about it,
Speaker 1: are susceptible to all kinds of lies and other mischaracterizations
Speaker 1: of the attack. But all you need to do is
Speaker 1: just listen to what al-Qaeda itself said, what Osama bin
Speaker 1: Laden said. And what I would have liked to have
Speaker 1: seen even more than swift justice in a court of
Speaker 1: any kind, tribunal or not, would have been for him
Speaker 1: to have been dealt with like Ayman al-Zahiri. Now, Osama
Speaker 1: bin Laden, everybody knows, he was like the chairman of
Speaker 1: the board of al-Qaeda. He didn't really personally plan stuff.
Speaker 1: Ayman al-Zahiri was the CEO. Khaliq Sheikh Mohammed was the
Speaker 1: one who was his number one operative for the 9-11 attacks.
Speaker 1: But Ayman al-Zahiri, four years ago now, almost exactly four
Speaker 1: years ago, we took out with the CIA operation with
Speaker 1: the drone. He was living in a fancy building in Kabul.
Speaker 1: I can't believe there are fancy buildings in Kabul, but
Speaker 1: I guess there are.
Speaker 2: When you have their sort of money, you can build
Speaker 2: something fancy anywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a precise strike. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think he was in an apartment building. They went right
Speaker 1: to the window. and got him. That was a good...
Speaker 1: And he was a terrorist even before we knew what
Speaker 1: al-Qaeda was. He was also the one behind the assassination
Speaker 1: of Anwar al-Sadat in Egypt. They let him out. I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole thing. So to me, that was much... Listen,
Speaker 1: they want to fight a war, then die in a battlefield.
Speaker 1: Get them on a battlefield. But if we got to
Speaker 1: have a military tribunal, at least let's do that instead of...
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what the security would have been like
Speaker 1: in lower Manhattan? People coming... I mean, if they're coming
Speaker 1: there for... For Luigi Mangione, there probably would have been
Speaker 1: a bunch of Islamist protesters.
Speaker 2: Well, you should have seen when I was on trial
Speaker 2: the amount of people that were flooding the streets. This
Speaker 2: would be like nothing that we've ever seen here in
Speaker 2: New York. And, of course, our mayor would probably be,
Speaker 2: I don't know, talking nonsense, more nonsense about this trial
Speaker 2: and how unjust it is.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: Think about, for example, like what he's talking about now
Speaker 2: with this Hindu nationalist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this, so there's a guy, the party that
Speaker 1: actually rules India, they actually have a democracy there. They
Speaker 1: actually have elections there. They've had them for a long time.
Speaker 1: It's the world, I think they call it the world's oldest,
Speaker 1: you know, functioning democracy, the world's largest democracy as far
Speaker 1: as population is concerned. So the party that is the
Speaker 1: ruling party, the majority party in India is, It's known
Speaker 1: as the BJP. I'm not going to mispronounce the Hindi words,
Speaker 1: so don't worry about that. Their leader, Mohan Bhagwat, is
Speaker 1: coming to Madison Square Garden on Saturday. Now, of course—
Speaker 1: Are you going, Jake? Well, you know, I'm going to try.
Speaker 2: I've got to be honest with you. I have Shabbat,
Speaker 2: so I'm going to end up taking a pass.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Listen, it depends on what they're serving. Indian food is
Speaker 1: like my second favorite food, and I'm a sucker for
Speaker 1: it every single time, and I'm always looking for new stuff.
Speaker 1: so i can only imagine what the vendors are going
Speaker 1: to be like there but uh and it's a part
Speaker 1: of my dreams and i'm not kidding but um it's
Speaker 1: amazing you know he so mamdani sounds a lot like
Speaker 1: he sounded when it came to Netanyahu coming to New York. Remember,
Speaker 1: he wanted to try to arrest him, but I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I can't. Here's what he has to say about this
Speaker 1: guy from a Hindu party in India. He doesn't like
Speaker 1: him either.
Speaker 3: You know, I also stand here as the first Indian
Speaker 3: American mayor in our city's history.
Speaker 1: Big deal. You don't like anything about India. I don't
Speaker 1: care that you were born there.
Speaker 3: Mazel tov.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big deal.
Speaker 3: Continuing. And my mother's family is all still in India.
Speaker 3: And the vision of India... that I was taught by
Speaker 3: my family and the one that I grew up being
Speaker 3: very familiar with was of a pluralistic society.
Speaker 1: Not baloney. Pluralistic society. He was brought up by communists,
Speaker 1: communist sympathizers. This party, the BJP, is not just a Hindu.
Speaker 1: They call it a Hindu nationalist party. No, it's an
Speaker 1: anti-communist party. Let's continue.
Speaker 3: Secular republic that believed in the belonging of each and
Speaker 3: every person who was from India. And it has been
Speaker 3: incredibly troubling to see the rise of a movement that
Speaker 3: is predicated on an exclusionary vision of any country, frankly.
Speaker 3: And so it is one that I find myself in
Speaker 3: deep opposition to, not only as an Indian American, but
Speaker 3: also as the mayor of a city that believes deeply
Speaker 3: in the belonging of each and every person, no matter
Speaker 3: their color, their creed, their religion, their faith, wherever they're from.
Speaker 1: Should the rally be canceled, though, at MSG this weekend?
Speaker 3: I don't support the rally, but I don't know if
Speaker 3: the city has any jurisdiction on canceling a private event.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's constantly unable to do this. He talks a
Speaker 1: good game. The BJP party, yes, it is hoping for
Speaker 1: basically a Hindu national estate. That's what they're going for.
Speaker 1: They don't want Islamists blowing up people in India. And
Speaker 1: so suddenly they're the bad guys. This is the party
Speaker 1: of Nahendra Modi, who was a tremendous friend of President Trump.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever had any dealings with
Speaker 1: him over the years, but he's a tremendous ally of
Speaker 1: this country. We've got to get them to buy less
Speaker 1: Russian oil, but that's another, you know, listen, we don't
Speaker 1: agree on everything. I know that's your mantra. You can't
Speaker 1: agree on everything with somebody. Otherwise you should be locked up.
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly don't agree with Mayor Moran Mandani in
Speaker 2: light of, yeah, he's okay with this individual from the
Speaker 2: BJP coming to Madison Square Garden, but he couldn't find
Speaker 2: the time to to participate in the Israeli day parade.
Speaker 2: I mean, again, but yet he'll turn around and he'll
Speaker 2: talk about my Jewish brothers and sisters, right? He'll talk
Speaker 2: about things like that. He'll talk about how this is
Speaker 2: New York City, that this is the home where everybody, race, religion, creed, color,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make a difference unless, of course, you're Jewish.
Speaker 2: And you want to participate in the Israeli day parade.
Speaker 2: Then he's going to put his foot down.
Speaker 1: Also, Michael Cohen, he showed up at Pakistani events. Pakistan
Speaker 1: is an Islamist country. They are not a pluralistic society either.
Speaker 1: What a joke. India is much more pluralist than Pakistan
Speaker 1: ever will be. what an absolute joke this guy is.
Speaker 2: And me personally, I don't care if he's the first Indian.
Speaker 2: I don't care whether you're male or female. I don't
Speaker 2: care black, white, brown. It doesn't matter to me. Do
Speaker 2: the job that the New Yorkers, that all New Yorkers
Speaker 2: need you to do. That to me is the most
Speaker 2: important thing. Once they start hitting that whole, that whole race, religion, creed,
Speaker 2: color card, then you know that they're full of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say about this, uh, Mamdani
Speaker 1: and all the other people who are upset that there
Speaker 1: is a more Hindu nationalist party that's been ruling India
Speaker 1: for quite some time now. You know what? If you
Speaker 1: didn't want that party to take control, then you should
Speaker 1: have told your so-called pluralist people, who were the children
Speaker 1: and grandchildren of Gandhi, by the way, to stop being communists,
Speaker 1: because that's why the people voted them out. And that's
Speaker 1: how you got a Hindu nationalist party running your country.
Speaker 1: But it's still a democracy, and we can't say that
Speaker 1: about almost any other country in their region.