WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.519 While the twilight Zone Podcast takes a short summer hiatus. Tonight, 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:07.919 I bring to you another episode from the archives over 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:12.279 in the After Hours Club Patreon dot com slash twilight 4 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:15.640 Zone Podcast. And if you're a new listener to the 5 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:19.079 twilight Zone Podcast, this isn't generally how the show goes. 6 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:23.000 We tend to focus more on episodes of the twilight Zone, 7 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:26.920 but over in the After Hours Club, I diversify into 8 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:30.640 all things sailing, and on the episode that I'm going 9 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:34.399 to bring to you tonight, way back in twenty nineteen, 10 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:38.520 I used to do a kind of magazine show over 11 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.960 there called The Fifth Dimension, where I would look at 12 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.880 other road sailing related work. Orse sometimes it would be 13 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:50.840 reading a short story. But in this particular episode, I 14 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.799 join up with my friend Al Shades Murder, presenter of Presenting, 15 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.960 Alfred Hitchcock Presents to talk about an episode of stud 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:04.840 Judo one which was written by Rod Sailing, called The Strike. 17 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.280 And it's one of two episodes that Alan I did 18 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:12.719 looking at some really really early sailing work. So I 19 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:15.159 will put the other one out in maybe a week's 20 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.959 time or something, but for now I'll hand you over 21 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.959 to twenty nineteen Tom Elliott to introduce you to the 22 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:27.599 fifth dimension and the strike. I'm going to begin tonight's 23 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:31.560 show with a quote within a quote, and I'm taking 24 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:35.599 it from Nick Parici's book Rod Sailing, His Life, Work 25 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:39.640 and Imagination, in which he puts a quote from Mark 26 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:44.319 Zickery's Twilight's Own Companion, in which he quotes Rod Sailing. 27 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:47.719 So it starts out with some words from Sailing himself, 28 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:53.680 and he says, a lot of these early scripts were rough, underdeveloped, hurried. 29 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:59.159 Some were still pretty bad stuff. And then Zickary carries on, 30 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.239 but to be fair, it should be said that if 31 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.000 they were bad, at least they were bad in the 32 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:09.000 right direction. A quality which could be seen in these scripts, 33 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.400 even as it can be seen in Sailings later scripts 34 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.080 for the Twilight Zone, was that even the waste of 35 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:18.800 them revealed a primary concern for people and their problems. 36 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:24.719 Sometimes the situations were cliched, the characters too dimensional, but 37 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.280 always there was at least some search for an emotional truth, 38 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:32.960 some attempt to make a statement on the human condition. 39 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:35.759 So this is in a section of the book that 40 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:40.000 is looking at Rod Sailing's early early work. Now we've 41 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.159 all heard of patterns we've all heard of Requiem for 42 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.919 a Heavyweight, But what else was going on around that time? 43 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:51.080 Because Rod Sailing was gathering some steam in his wake, 44 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.400 you know, having these moments where he knocked out the 45 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:58.400 park with those kinds of plays, but also he was 46 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:03.000 still developing his he was still feeling his way through 47 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:06.560 the world of television and finding out that it could 48 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:11.439 be a very frustrating place. So in a two part show, 49 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:15.080 I'm joined by a longtime friends of the show, Al Shardsman, 50 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:18.680 and we're going to talk about two of those early 51 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:23.520 Sailing plays. And these aired on a show called Studio One, 52 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.000 and it was one of those early American anthologies that 53 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:31.199 just ran and ran. It had about ten seasons and 54 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.520 four hundred and sixty seven episodes, and pretty much anyone 55 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:40.159 who was anyone either wrote it, directed it, or starred 56 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:43.240 in it at that time. And it wasn't so much 57 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:46.520 an anthology in the sense that the Twilight Zone is, 58 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.360 or even the forerunner to the Twilight Zone Tales of Tomorrow, 59 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:54.560 where it does have a sort of overriding feeling to it. 60 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:58.719 Studio One was more a time and a space just 61 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:02.439 to put plays on television. So it's a little different 62 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.879 from how we view television today or even when we 63 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:09.520 get to the Twilight Zone. So let's jump over to 64 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:12.520 my chat with Al when we begin looking at our 65 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:19.040 facet story tonight. I welcome back, you know, one of 66 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.800 the best friends of the Twilight Zone podcast. My good 67 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:25.439 friend Al shared Al. Did I pronounce your name right? 68 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:25.879 Yes? 69 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:31.680 You did? Close enough anyway, Okay, yeah, yeah, I'll take that. 70 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.519 We're off to a good start. Then it'll probably be 71 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:39.399 downhill from here. We'll see, we'll see. Al. You brought 72 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:44.360 to my attention a couple of shows that Rod Sailing 73 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:48.839 did before before he started the Twilight Zone. So why 74 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:51.839 don't you just sort of tell us about the release 75 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.680 that you discovered these shows on. 76 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:59.519 Okay, Well, I was looking for Serling dramas anything available 77 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.279 on DVD, and one of them I discovered was this 78 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:08.399 set put out by the Archive of American Television called 79 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.480 Rod Serling Studio one Dramas, and it's two episodes from 80 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:22.600 Studio one Westinghouse. Studio Westinghouse, the television program from the 81 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:27.439 early fifties, early to mid fifties, and one of them 82 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:31.079 is The Strike from nineteen fifty four and the other 83 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:36.680 is The Arena from nineteen fifty six, and they're fascinating 84 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:41.279 in terms of early Serling work. I think the Strike 85 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.480 Surling wrote when he was twenty nine years old, and 86 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:49.319 which is pretty impressive when you look at it, I think, 87 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:54.879 and only mid in his early thirties for the Arena, 88 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.399 so they pre date the Twilight Zone by a good 89 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.480 four to six years. And they are certainly part of 90 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.000 the education that he had in television that led him 91 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:08.839 to decide to do The Twilight Zone. So I think 92 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:11.879 that they are. They may not be as important in 93 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:18.560 the in the Serling of as requen for a Heavyweight 94 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:22.480 and patterns and things like that, but they're definitely part 95 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.560 of the building blocks of his career and and show 96 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:30.959 him developing as a playwright. Actually, because they really are 97 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:36.680 essentially plays for television. Uh they there's there's very limited 98 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:41.839 sets and I'm pretty sure they were done live, so 99 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:43.879 you know, you had to work them out in the 100 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.319 same way that you would in the theater, where if 101 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.120 somebody has to go on to a different set, you 102 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.279 have to have a moment where they can get there, 103 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:54.680 So you have to have a little bit of a 104 00:06:54.680 --> 00:07:00.519 little bit of transition writing. So they're real education. I 105 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:01.800 think for a writer too. 106 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.920 That's a good point you mentioned there, because you know 107 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.680 Studio One. I suppose in some ways you could call 108 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.800 it an anthology, but it doesn't seem like an anthology 109 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.160 to me in the same way that the Twilight Zone is, 110 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:19.480 or like you know, Night Gallery or Tells in the 111 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:23.360 Crypto or whatever. It really is just a series of plays, 112 00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:27.000 isn't it, rather than a sort of an anthology with 113 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.439 a similar kind of theme, because they could be anything. 114 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.319 I mean, these two stories, we've got a war story 115 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:37.120 and we have a political sort of drama as well, 116 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:41.439 So it doesn't seem like an anthology in the same 117 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.439 sense as I would normally think of an anthology if 118 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:45.199 you see what I mean. 119 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:50.319 Yes, the anthologies like Twilight Zone or Alfred Hitchcock presents, 120 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:56.279 those sorts of things have some overriding theme or overwriting presence, 121 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:02.040 whether it's Sling or Hitchcock or whatever. These arearly just 122 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.000 shows that did plays on television. I think Playhouse ninety 123 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.439 was pretty much like that too. It was a thing 124 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:11.199 in early television, which is actually a shame that it 125 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:17.680 doesn't exist anymore. The there's an ad on the front 126 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:21.639 of this DVD set that I have advertising another collection 127 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:25.759 of Studio One dramas and they list with some of 128 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:28.079 them are and they're all vastly different. One of them 129 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:32.960 is the original Twelve Angry Men, Oh wow. So yeah, 130 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.039 and then there's something that has Seal Minio in it, 131 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.320 and there's something that's Jack Lemon in it, and they're 132 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:44.039 all just individual plays, completely distinct. So yeah, you know, 133 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:49.320 the fact that Serling was able to crack this is 134 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.759 you know. I mean, we look at Twilight Zone now 135 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:57.759 and Playhouse ninety and think of those as being like, 136 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.200 you know, the real pinnacles for Serling, but I think 137 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:08.879 being on Studio One was as well, and it established him, 138 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.240 along with Playhouse ninety, as being one of the top 139 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.879 playwrights for television in the early fifties, along with Patty 140 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:21.879 Chaiyevsky and Reginald Rose. In fact, I was reading somewhere, 141 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.159 I'm not sure if it's in Nick Pees's book or 142 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.240 if it was in the little liner notes that came 143 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:35.279 with this DVD that Gorvi Dal put out a collection 144 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.200 of the best plays for television in the fifties, and 145 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:44.720 one of them is The Strike. So it was established Serling. 146 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.360 I think in ways that he actually you know, went 147 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:51.840 on from there, but it certainly is I think a 148 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:53.519 major part of his career. 149 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:54.080 Now. 150 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:59.120 You referred to Nick Perici's book then, and obviously I 151 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:04.600 referred to it too, because if anyone wants to know 152 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:08.840 more about this era of sailing, it's indispensable, really, isn't it. 153 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.080 It's fantastic in that regard. You know, it covers so 154 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:16.279 much stuff that I didn't even know about, in such 155 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.519 great details. It is like an expanded Twilight zoned Companion 156 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:23.360 in a way. He goes into all these things, he 157 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.639 digs up letters and so on, and if he's to 158 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:31.720 be believed, which of course why not. The arena is 159 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.879 actually quite important in a sense beyond what actually ends 160 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.519 up on screen. But we'll get to that in a minute, 161 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:43.360 because we let's start off with our first story, which 162 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:44.360 is called the Strike. 163 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:50.600 I'm sorry I paused the unforgivable question. You never mentioned 164 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.600 fear in front of enlisted man? Do you I mean 165 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:56.080 letting them know that an officer might be afraid to. 166 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.679 Chaplains have guy blanche In that respect, you can ask 167 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:00.440 any you want. 168 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:09.919 You're the Army's chosen people. And at the point of interest, major, 169 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:15.120 are you afraid twenty hunting for Chaplin reassurance. 170 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:20.759 I'm fresh out of reassurance. You see out there, that's 171 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.000 our escape route, the only one available. I've got to 172 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:25.679 lead these men through it in less than three hours, 173 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.559 and across the river the Chinese are setting it up, artillery, 174 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.279 setting it up someplace to look right, smack down our throats, 175 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:32.720 just waiting for our. 176 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:36.759 Withdrawal, and then let us have it mature. I'd like 177 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:38.960 to be able to help you take some of the 178 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:39.480 weight off. 179 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.279 Ask God to deliver a patrol of twenty men I 180 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.559 sent across that river. Deliver them safe and sound. 181 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.720 There right stations over here, Captain. 182 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.360 Tell Captain Sloane, I sent you. You're at his disposal. 183 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.840 Everything from bandaging to last rites. 184 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:03.320 First broadcast June seventh, nineteen fifty four, Written by Rod 185 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:09.600 Sailing and directed by Franklin Jay Shaffner, North Korea, January 186 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:14.000 nineteen fifty one. Major Gaylord commands more than five hundred 187 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.679 soldiers hold up in a farmhouse on the banks of 188 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:21.600 a river, surrounded by enemy and with virtually no escape route. 189 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.559 With dozens of wounded and dying men, it looks increasingly 190 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:28.000 likely that the troops will need to move out from 191 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.240 their location, even though it will be a virtual suicide mission. 192 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:37.120 One day earlier, Gaylord ordered a platoon of twenty men 193 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.639 to head out on patrol to ascertain the strength and 194 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.000 exact location of the enemy. But they have not retained 195 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:47.960 and Gaylord's men have been unable to reach them by radio. 196 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.480 As the situation grows more desperate, Gaylord agonizes over his 197 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.720 decision to send out those twenty men. Command orders them 198 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.919 to move out the following morning, leaving behind the platin 199 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:05.440 its fate unknown. Shortly after receiving these orders, however, the 200 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:10.240 missing platoon re establishes radio contact and communicates their position. 201 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.879 Another message from command follows Air Force planes have spotted 202 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.679 the enemy artillery and will provide cover simultaneous with the 203 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.440 withdrawal of Gaylord's men. They will need only Gaylord's signal 204 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.679 to begin bombing the enemy's location, which is exactly the 205 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.639 same as that of the platoon. To some of his men, 206 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:36.080 Gaylord's dilemma is no dilemma at all. Simple mathematics says 207 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.720 it makes sense to sacrifice twenty men to save five hundred, 208 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.000 But Gayload sees nothing simple about ordering the deaths of 209 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.360 twenty of his own men and refuses to give the signal. 210 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.080 The strike is a war story, something that clearly Sailing 211 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.679 has carried throughout his career, the war stories and so on. 212 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:02.840 It's a reg killer feature in the Twilight Zone. But 213 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:08.000 this is an early war story with familiar Twilight Zone 214 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.200 face in it, which is good. Yes, So let's let's 215 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.720 just get into this one. Al, let's just you know, 216 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:15.720 what are you what are some thoughts on this? On 217 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.240 the strike? 218 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.840 Well, the Strike is I've found it fascinating in that 219 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:27.720 it essentially is a play where nobody really changes. 220 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:30.600 It's it's. 221 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.080 It's a city, and the situation doesn't change, so it 222 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:40.080 becomes a philosophical exercise essentially. It's really it's really an 223 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:46.200 exercise in utilitarianism. To put that into popular culture references, 224 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.240 it's like what mister Spock says in The Wrath of Khan, 225 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.519 which is the the needs of the many outweigh the 226 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:58.879 needs of the few, or the or the one. So 227 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.679 essentially you have a situation where you have major Gaylord 228 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:09.679 played by James Daily, who is curmudgeonly and sort of 229 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.440 against being a commanding officer right from the beginning, who 230 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:22.759 is in a Sophie's choice to some extent, a no 231 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:27.200 win situation in which he has sent out a platoon 232 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:30.679 of twenty men across a river. This is in North Korea. 233 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.639 This is during the Korean War, which only ended, like 234 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.840 I think a year before this was shown, so it's 235 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:40.480 something that's very current for the viewers at the time. 236 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.480 And he has sent a platoon out to scout out 237 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:50.960 where the enemy artillery might be. But they build a 238 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.720 bridge which they have to destroy, and then they get 239 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.840 trapped themselves in their own location, so they have to retreat. 240 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.519 But they know that the enemy artillery will obliterate them 241 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:08.679 once they start to retreat. So the only answer to 242 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.440 that is that the army will send in the Air 243 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:16.720 Force will send in planes that will commit an air strike. 244 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:19.799 And that's what the strike is in the episode. If 245 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.360 you look at the title without seeing anything else, you 246 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:24.279 figure it's going to be, you know, like a union 247 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:31.200 strike or something. Yeah, yeah, No, it's an air bombing strike. 248 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:38.200 The problem is that the platoon that the major has 249 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.600 sent out is in the same location as the enemy artillery, 250 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:49.440 so that in order for the bombers to successfully let 251 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:51.919 the five hundred men who are on the other side 252 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.000 of the river, that are trying to retreat successfully retreat. 253 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.360 The twenty men who are on, who are in the 254 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.840 platoon are going to have to die. And what's interesting 255 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:07.160 about the whole story, I think, is that the major 256 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.279 goes through all these pangs of conscience and blames himself 257 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.920 for sending the platoon out to begin with, and yet 258 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:22.960 ultimately he has no choice, which is powerful, but is 259 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.680 at the same time it's kind of frustrating when you're 260 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:31.359 watching it, because again, you know, he has to decide 261 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.319 it's cut and dried. There's no way out of the situation. 262 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:37.839 So he either has to save five hundred men or 263 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.519 he has to save twenty men, and ultimately there's no 264 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:48.839 decision there, but it devastates him. It reminds me of 265 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:53.559 the Tom Godwin story The Cold Equations, which was actually 266 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:57.359 made into a Twilight Zone in the third season of 267 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.440 the eighties Twilight Zone. And the whole point of the 268 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.880 Cold Equations, which is why it's called the Cold Equations, 269 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:07.799 is that there are certain things that are just so 270 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.759 in terms of math or physics or whatever that there's 271 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.200 nothing you can do about. And it's interesting in that 272 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.519 in the Cold Equations, I don't want to say too much, 273 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.240 but it's a It takes place sometime in the future, 274 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.039 and there's a guy who has got his own personal spaceship. 275 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:28.279 He's hauling cargo or something from one planet to another, 276 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.680 and he discovers that there is a young girl who 277 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.319 has stowed away on his spaceship because she wants to 278 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.720 go see her father or something like that. And the 279 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.680 problem is he now weighs too much to land successfully 280 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:48.400 and his ship is stripped down to begin with. So 281 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:52.519 the Cold equations, are you weigh too much? What are 282 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.559 you going to do? There's no solution to that, And 283 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.319 it's and it's tough, and it's and it's hard, but 284 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:00.720 there's noating around it. 285 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.119 Now. 286 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:06.680 What I read about with the eighties Twilight Zone jumping 287 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:08.880 ahead to what you'll be dealing with somewhere down the 288 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:13.559 line here, is that there was one studio executive who 289 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.240 refused to accept the whole point of the Cold equations 290 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.880 and suggested that because in the Cold Equations, the only 291 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.000 solution is and I'm spoiling this like crazy, is that 292 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.960 is that he has to jettison the girl out of 293 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.799 the ship, has to kill her, and there's no other 294 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:37.279 way around it. But there was a studio exec who 295 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:42.039 who apparently came up with this great idea that he suggested, 296 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:45.839 which is that at the at the end of the show, 297 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.599 the ship opens up and the girl comes out. She's 298 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.240 all right because the pilot has cut off his legs 299 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.480 and sent them out. So so, and then whoever was 300 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.240 writing the the the. 301 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:00.319 It might been J. 302 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.759 Michaels Strazinski, I'm not sure whoever was writing the teleplay 303 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.000 at that time, said well, you know, this sort of 304 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.200 defeats the whole point of the story, which is the 305 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:13.960 cold equations. So anyway, this is sort of the same 306 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:17.599 kind of thing. There's really no getting around it, which 307 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:22.240 makes it a little bit frustrating. I also think it's 308 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:23.039 a little bit. 309 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:25.440 Cheating. 310 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.759 It's a little bit harsh to say that on Serling's 311 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.640 part in that the only guy in the entire group 312 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.759 that is fighting against this decision is the major. Everybody 313 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:38.599 else tells him he has to do it. He has 314 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:40.839 to do what he has to do it, which makes 315 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.200 it sort of easier for him ultimately to do it. 316 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.519 I think there should be more guys that are sort 317 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.880 of on the fence. But in any event, you know, 318 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.400 even though it's sort of a foregone conclusion to watch 319 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:54.839 the major sort of which you watch the major work 320 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:59.720 through it's not even really acceptance that this has to 321 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.240 be done on but you watch them work through acceptance 322 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:08.079 of command, right, and that is I think really powerful 323 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:09.039 and works really well. 324 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.039 I said before we started record now that I struggled 325 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.200 a little bit, and I'll tell you what I struggled 326 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.039 because a lot of it I put on my own 327 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.519 back kind of thing, because it's so much television from 328 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:25.559 another time, isn't it in the way it's presented, you know, 329 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.720 like the Twilight Zone. I don't think you really need 330 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.839 to make many, if any concessions for because the form 331 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:40.079 is still there. But this is so you know, they're 332 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.599 talking about guys who are elsewhere. They're talking about a bridge, 333 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.440 they're talking about you know, air strikes. They're talking about 334 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.079 so many things that aren't there and we never see. 335 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.319 So it's all got to be conveyed with weirds and 336 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.079 you know, there's a lot of guys there. I kept 337 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:04.240 getting mixed up with with who was who and it 338 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.599 was you know, and I purely admit that this is 339 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:09.880 you know, that was the art form at the time, 340 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.640 that was television, and that's the way it was. So 341 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:16.599 it's like I struggle watching silent movies. I can't. I 342 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.160 really struggle watching them because it's just such a different experience. 343 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.680 And it was similar with this, you know. I got 344 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.079 to about twenty minutes in and I paused it to 345 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.880 see how long it was, and it said twenty minutes, 346 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:31.599 and I thought I'd been watching it for an hour, 347 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:36.359 you know. Was it was very slow at times. I 348 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.799 was confused. But it's like watching Game of Thrones in 349 00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.319 a way. Half the time you don't know who anyone 350 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:47.279 is and who's related to who, but you just sort 351 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.240 of get the gist of it as you go along, 352 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.279 you know what I mean, And by the end you're 353 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.160 kind of fine and you know what's going on and 354 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.359 who everyone is. But I think that the form of 355 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:00.680 it was quite a struggle for me. You seem to 356 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.240 have adapted to it a lot better than me, you know. 357 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.160 Well, first of all, let me say that, as a 358 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.559 lover of silent movies, if you see them the way 359 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.640 they're intended, then you can really appreciate them. They're really 360 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.440 a different art form than regular movies, and if you 361 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:19.839 think of them as just regular movies, then you'll see 362 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.759 all the gaps and the weaknesses in them. But if 363 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.720 you can see them in a theater with a big 364 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:31.720 screen and either a live organist or a live orchestra, 365 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.400 it's a totally different matter. I've actually been, you know, 366 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.400 for my Hitchcock podcast, I've been looking at I recently 367 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:44.559 watched several of the silent Hitchcock films and I'm just 368 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.759 getting them on YouTube and such, and on those you 369 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:53.319 either have no sound whatsoever, or they just have some 370 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.920 generic soundtrack they put on there, and in both cases 371 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.880 they're very hard to watch, but that's never the way 372 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:04.519 they were intended. Anyway, Enough of that digression, I think 373 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:09.319 that you know, the way to look at these Studio 374 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.960 one things is not necessarily as television, but as theater 375 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.119 as plays. You could take the strike and you could 376 00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:21.480 put it on stage, and there's essentially what there's like 377 00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.200 three sets in the whole thing. There's the main camp 378 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:28.000 where they are they go outside a few times, and 379 00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:30.039 then there's a spot where they have a tent where 380 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.519 the wounded are, and you could set that up on 381 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:37.599 a stage and do this script exactly the way it's 382 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.119 written for Studio one, and I think you would deal 383 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.759 with it a lot better because you'd recognize that you're 384 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:46.960 watching a play and it's on stage. The fact that 385 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.680 it's suddenly on your TV screen makes it seem some 386 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:56.279 to be something sort of alien and it might be 387 00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.200 hard to get into. But the other thing is, as 388 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:02.240 you know, is, as we said, the Korean War had 389 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.039 just ended, so people watching this at the time were 390 00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:06.920 very familiar with a lot of this kind of stuff. 391 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.440 I assume it is sort of difficult to watch it 392 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.599 and say, Okay, they're talking about a bridge and they 393 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.599 blew up the bridge, and there's a strike, and where's 394 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:20.079 the enemy, you know, and it's the Chinese, and where's 395 00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:24.440 the artillery and you know and so on. So I 396 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.279 missed a lot of that my first viewing of it. 397 00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.920 It was really only the second viewing, when I was 398 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.279 paying really close attention that I figured out, oh, yeah, 399 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:36.680 well they built this bridge and these guys went across 400 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.200 the bridge, but then they had to blow up the 401 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.240